Jesse Harris

Jesse Harris, the GRAMMY-winning singer songwriter whose work spans from his solo albums to his instrumental group Cosmo, joins Norah for a conversation grounded in their years of friendship and collaboration.

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• 2:10Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Nora Jones, and today I'm playing along with my old pal, Jesse Harris.

• 2:29Speaker 00

  Hi, welcome to the show. I'm Nora Jones and with me as always is Sarah Oda.

• 2:33Speaker 04

  Hello.

• 2:35Speaker 00

  Hello.

• 2:36Speaker 04

  Our guest today is singer-songwriter, guitarist and producer extraordinaire and OG friend.

• 2:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:43Speaker 04

  Jesse Harris. He's released many albums as a solo artist and several with his instrumental group, Cosmo. And he also has worked with and played with several bands and artists, including yours truly.

• 2:56Speaker 00

  Me.

• 2:57Speaker 04

  Wait, no. I'm pointing to you, but that doesn't mean...

• 3:00Speaker 00

  Nobody can see your point.

• 3:01Speaker 04

  His, hers, truly.

• 3:04Speaker 00

  Jesse Harris is a friend of mine since I'm 19 years old. And he worked on my first album with me. He wrote "Don't Know Why," which was my breakout hit. And so for me, you know, it goes pretty deep.

• 3:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's written like an unbelievable number of songs.

• 3:23Speaker 00

  He's a very prolific songwriter. He wrote four songs, I think, or five songs on my first album. So if you know that album, you know his work. Even if you don't know, you know. You know?

• 3:35Speaker 04

  Jesse has a new album, If You Believed in Me, that just came out on November 7th on Artwork Records, and it's featuring an orchestra arranged and conducted by Brazilian composer Miken Ananias.

• 3:46Speaker 00

  And we're going to start this episode with a song I sang with him on that album called "Having a Ball."

• 3:51Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for a trip down memory lane.

• 3:54Speaker 00

  This was fun. Please enjoy this episode with one of my oldest friends, Jesse Harris.

• 4:11Speaker 05

  Is it too late for me to call? I feel so weak. It hurts to fall. It hurts to fall.

• 4:28Speaker 05

  So can we talk about it all?

• 4:35Speaker 05

  Wish that we were having, wish that we were having a ball.

• 4:45Speaker 05

  You had to be there, I suppose. It wasn't mean, it's just a joke. It's just a joke.

• 5:03Speaker 05

  But everything went up in smoke. Wish that we were having, wish that we were having a ball.

• 5:22Speaker 05

  Just like we were yesterday.

• 5:34Speaker 05

  Isn't there something that I can say?

• 5:43Speaker 05

  I'll let you go, it's time to sleep. I lie awake, you're counting sheep. I'm counting sheep.

• 6:00Speaker 05

  Don't throw away the things you keep. Wish that we were having, wish that we were having a ball.

• 6:19Speaker 05

  Wish that we were having, wish that we were having a ball.

• 6:30Speaker 05

  Wish that we were having, wish that we were having a ball.

• 6:41Speaker 05

  Wish that we were having, wish that we were having a ball.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  Awesome.

• 7:02Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:03Speaker 00

  Island vibes.

• 7:04Speaker 06

  Yeah, totally.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  Hi, friend.

• 7:19Speaker 06

  Hi.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  We had to do this to hang out?

• 7:22Speaker 06

  I, well, you're busy.

• 7:24Speaker 00

  I know, but you're always gone.

• 7:26Speaker 06

  I know, that's true.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  You, you're French now.

• 7:29Speaker 06

  I've, I've been around, you know, I've been around some.

• 7:34Speaker 00

  You spent a lot of time in Paris, though.

• 7:35Speaker 06

  I do. That's true.

• 7:37Speaker 00

  Because you're French now.

• 7:38Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'm working on it.

• 7:42Speaker 06

  I was at the beach yesterday and the day before.

• 7:45Speaker 00

  Well, I didn't get a call.

• 7:48Speaker 06

  You're not, are you going out?

• 7:49Speaker 00

  Hi, welcome to our dynamic.

• 7:52Speaker 06

  Have we started?

• 7:53Speaker 00

  Oh, yes.

• 7:54Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 7:58Speaker 06

  Hi.

• 7:58Speaker 00

  Hi. Now you're all self-conscious.

• 8:00Speaker 06

  No, I'm ready. I'm, I'm good.

• 8:02Speaker 00

  Let's start with a song for fun.

• 8:04Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 8:05Speaker 00

  Can we do one of the first songs I used to sing with you?

• 8:09Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 8:09Speaker 00

  Which is a song that I did record on my first album that people who liked that album love that song. And also, this is the version I used to sing with you.

• 8:19Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 8:21Speaker 00

  You, you be, you used to play with the Ferdinandos. And you, you'd be playing at the living room and I'd be there. And you'd just kind of like, go like that. With your head, you jerk your head and...

• 8:34Speaker 06

  What was that a signal for?

• 8:35Speaker 00

  For me to come up and sing it with you.

• 8:37Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 8:37Speaker 00

  Or am I thinking of "Not Your Fault"?

• 8:42Speaker 06

  No, no, no, we would do this.

• 8:43Speaker 00

  We would do this.

• 8:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, but you sang on "Not Your Fault" on the record.

• 8:46Speaker 00

  But this was like one of the first ones, right? So this came out in 2001 on...

• 8:50Speaker 06

  Well, the album came out in 2001, but we must have recorded it in 2000 or something.

• 8:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, probably.

• 8:54Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 8:55Speaker 00

  But I'm not on the album.

• 8:57Speaker 06

  Yes, you are.

• 8:57Speaker 00

  I am? Okay, I can't remember.

• 8:59Speaker 06

  Hundred percent, yeah.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  Okay, so I sang it with you on the album?

• 9:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, you did.

• 9:02Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah, and that was like right after I moved to New York.

• 9:05Speaker 06

  Um, yeah.

• 9:06Speaker 00

  Okay, let's do it. And then we'll talk. Bye-bye.

• 9:07Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  Wait, do you do it in C minor?

• 9:10Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 9:13Speaker 00

  Okay, for some reason I keep having "Not Your Fault" in my head. I don't know why.

• 9:18Speaker 05

  Well, you sang on that too. And you really were yelling, remember?

• 9:21Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:21Speaker 05

  And the harmonies?

• 9:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I remember.

• 9:23Speaker 05

  Okay. Do you want to come in with me at the intro? Okay.

• 9:41Speaker 05

  Lines on your face don't bother me.

• 9:49Speaker 05

  Down in my chair when you dance over me. I can't help myself.

• 10:01Speaker 05

  I've got to see you again.

• 10:09Speaker 05

  Late in the night when I'm all alone.

• 10:17Speaker 05

  And I look at the clock and I know you're not home. I can't help myself.

• 10:29Speaker 05

  I've got to see you again.

• 10:34Speaker 05

  I could almost go there just to watch you be seen. I could almost go there just to live in a dream.

• 10:53Speaker 05

  But no, I won't go for any of those things.

• 11:01Speaker 05

  To not touch your skin is not why I sing.

• 11:09Speaker 05

  I can't help myself.

• 11:14Speaker 05

  I've got to see you again.

• 11:46Speaker 05

  I could almost go there Just to watch you be seen I could almost go there Just to live in a dream

• 12:05Speaker 05

  But no, I won't go To share you with them But oh, even though I know Where you've been I can't help myself I've got to see you again

• 12:32Speaker 05

  I can't help myself I've got to see you again

• 12:46Speaker 06

  All right.

• 12:47Speaker 00

  That really brings me back.

• 12:50Speaker 06

  Remember I used to do harmonica solo on that?

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Oh, did you bring your harmonica?

• 12:53Speaker 06

  I didn't.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  Shoot.

• 12:54Speaker 06

  I didn't remember until this moment.

• 12:55Speaker 00

  Oh, that's right, because I was like, well, I didn't play piano on it.

• 12:58Speaker 06

  And I haven't done that in a while, but yeah.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  Oh, that would have been fun.

• 13:03Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 13:03Speaker 00

  That's right. God, those days.

• 13:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, I was thinking about that on my way here because I used to live around here. And so I was walking through the old hood and checking things out and looked at my old place where I used to live. And I saw the old copy shop where I used to make my songbooks.

• 13:20Speaker 00

  Oh, copy shop, back before you had a printer in your house?

• 13:23Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 13:24Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 13:25Speaker 06

  And they used to, they would bind the books for me, too.

• 13:27Speaker 00

  Really?

• 13:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 13:29Speaker 00

  Oh, that's so cool.

• 13:30Speaker 06

  So when we did the gigs, I never did any rehearsals. So I'd just bring the book to the gig. And whoever was on bass that night would just flip, you know, flip to the song we were doing because they were in alphabetical order.

• 13:40Speaker 00

  That's so easy. That's so jazz of you.

• 13:43Speaker 06

  I know, right?

• 13:43Speaker 00

  That's such a like jazz musician, jazz singer thing to do.

• 13:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Have their own book.

• 13:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 13:48Speaker 00

  That's so cool.

• 13:49Speaker 06

  It had a cover, too.

• 13:50Speaker 00

  I remember you've always been excellent at making charts. So I remember that.

• 13:56Speaker 06

  Well, early on, um, actually, you remember Ben Street? Ben Street said, he said, you gotta start making charts.

• 14:03Speaker 00

  Really? Is he the one who made you do it?

• 14:04Speaker 06

  Yeah, in the very beginning, yeah.

• 14:06Speaker 00

  This is back in the Once Blues?

• 14:08Speaker 06

  Before, Once Blue.

• 14:09Speaker 00

  Before that even? Okay. Man, that's so cool. Well, I met you in Texas in 1998?

• 14:18Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 14:18Speaker 00

  Summer?

• 14:19Speaker 06

  No, it was April.

• 14:20Speaker 00

  April. It was right before the summer.

• 14:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 14:23Speaker 00

  And I had the big Cadillac. I'm sure some people know this story and some people don't. But you were driving cross country with Richard. Actually, I think we told the story when I did the podcast with Richard.

• 14:33Speaker 06

  Oh, cool.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. But I met you and Richard Julian, as well as Kenny Wallison.

• 14:40Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 14:41Speaker 00

  And Kurt Rosenwinkel.

• 14:43Speaker 06

  And Steve Cardenas.

• 14:44Speaker 00

  And Steve Cardenas.

• 14:44Speaker 06

  Who were playing with Mark Johnson.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  And I don't think I ever actually met Mark Johnson on that trip.

• 14:48Speaker 06

  He wasn't around. Yeah, that's true.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, he wasn't really around.

• 14:51Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 14:51Speaker 00

  So I showed up in my, my 71 Cadillac Sedan de Ville. And you had on like your, your Jesse hat. And your Jesse shirt, basically, and your guitar.

• 15:02Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 00

  That night at the golf course, we all, I showed you guys around town all day. And then that night, we jammed on the golf course. And that was the first time. Do you remember what song you sang that night?

• 15:13Speaker 06

  Maybe, was it like, "Momma, You Been On My Mind"?

• 15:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I was like, "That's a great song. When did you write that?" Or something. And you're like, "Yeah, that's a Dylan song." I was just so... I was moldable and you

• 15:29Speaker 00

  then I moved to New York and you kept giving me music to listen to and you like you shaped so much of my early taste, you know, which is crazy.

• 15:37Speaker 06

  But I mean, you already knew a lot of music.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  I did, but I had a lot of gaps.

• 15:42Speaker 06

  Right.

• 15:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, I knew a lot of jazz.

• 15:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 15:44Speaker 00

  And some country.

• 15:46Speaker 06

  You were into Dolly Parton, right?

• 15:48Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. I mean, I knew Dolly and Willie.

• 15:50Speaker 06

  Right.

• 15:51Speaker 00

  But I had a lot of gaps. I had like big Bob Dylan gaps.

• 15:54Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  You filled in.

• 15:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 15:56Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then that summer I came to visit you.

• 16:00Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 16:01Speaker 00

  And I, well, visit New York.

• 16:02Speaker 06

  Right.

• 16:03Speaker 00

  For like a week, right? And I came to the living room to see you play with the Ferdinandos.

• 16:08Speaker 06

  Oh, my God, right?

• 16:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I was just like, this is fun.

• 16:14Speaker 06

  Maybe I'll leave school.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  Maybe I'll quit school and move up to New York and play for tips at the living room.

• 16:21Speaker 06

  And I got blamed.

• 16:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, by my mom, yeah. Until the Grammys and then you were fine.

• 16:26Speaker 06

  Right.

• 16:28Speaker 00

  She like came up and forgave you.

• 16:30Speaker 06

  No, it was actually Town Hall.

• 16:31Speaker 00

  Really?

• 16:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 16:32Speaker 00

  What did she do?

• 16:33Speaker 06

  She said, I'm not mad at you anymore. And she kissed me.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  That's so funny.

• 16:37Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 16:37Speaker 00

  So I remember seeing you play with the Ferdinandos and that was after Once Blue, right?

• 16:41Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  So you had a band with Rebecca Martin called Once Blue?

• 16:46Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 16:46Speaker 00

  Where she did most of the singing?

• 16:48Speaker 06

  Pretty much all the singing.

• 16:49Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah.

• 16:50Speaker 06

  I sang harmonies on just a couple of songs.

• 16:52Speaker 00

  Okay. You do well with with a female singer. It's like a nice marriage of your songs.

• 17:00Speaker 06

  Yeah, I've been doing it. It's been kind of that way for a long time.

• 17:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, you're good at it.

• 17:05Speaker 06

  Well, the cool thing is, you know, the Ferdinandos back in the day, like when we did Crooked Lines, we recorded over at Tony Scher's apartment in Carroll Gardens and

• 17:18Speaker 06

  And it was Kenny Wallace and Tony Sharon. Now, we've made a new record together.

• 17:22Speaker 00

  Oh, now? Cool.

• 17:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, so it's the first time. You know, I did a record with those guys on it, but it was like a different concept of an album. And Tony was playing upright and it was a certain thing. But this new record is the first time since back in those days that I really feel like the three of us got together and made an album the way we used to. Except different.

• 17:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it sounds very different to me. And the album is called?

• 17:50Speaker 06

  Paper Flower.

• 17:51Speaker 00

  Paper Flower?

• 17:52Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 17:53Speaker 00

  But it's just the three of you?

• 17:54Speaker 06

  No.

• 17:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. Because there's synthesizers and stuff on it, which is totally different from the back in the day.

• 18:00Speaker 06

  That's true. That's true. Yeah, I used to be more of a purist than I am now. But we kind of combined the old way of recording. Like, those are all live takes. But now just, you know, adding new elements to it. Believe it or not, some of the synth stuff is Kenny playing.

• 18:20Speaker 00

  I believe that.

• 18:21Speaker 06

  Yeah, Kenny's really into experimenting with sounds. And then some friends of mine over in Paris, like this guy named Yulise Cottin, who's in this group called Papoos that who I work with.

• 18:33Speaker 00

  Oh, cool.

• 18:34Speaker 06

  And he's great at synths and doing parts. And he really knows, you know, old analog synths really well.

• 18:42Speaker 00

  It's a whole world.

• 18:44Speaker 06

  Yeah. And so he did a lot of that stuff that you hear there. And then, you know, added other friends on there, like C.J. Camerari.

• 18:55Speaker 00

  Like usual.

• 18:55Speaker 06

  AKA Carm, plays horns on One Tune. And there's a great singer named Anson Jones, sings harmonies throughout.

• 19:04Speaker 00

  Oh, cool. Yeah, I was wondering who that was.

• 19:05Speaker 06

  She plays some piano stuff, too.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  Nice. You want to do a song from that?

• 19:09Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 19:10Speaker 00

  Can we do "If You Get A Broken Heart"?

• 19:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 19:12Speaker 00

  Yeah?

• 19:13Speaker 06

  Sure. Yeah, I knew you would like that one. It's very...

• 19:18Speaker 00

  It's very old. Old Fernando's. And then we'll ease into the newer. I mean, this is still from the new record, though.

• 19:25Speaker 06

  Hundred percent.

• 19:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, I can tell that's Kenny. It's so great.

• 19:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:43Speaker 06

  If you get a broken heart

• 19:53Speaker 06

  Lose your way, you'll fall apart

• 20:03Speaker 06

  There's no one that's gonna help you

• 20:12Speaker 06

  Get back on your feet again

• 20:22Speaker 06

  When you're hurting deep inside

• 20:32Speaker 06

  You do your best to try to hide it

• 20:42Speaker 06

  But it's useless to disguise it

• 20:52Speaker 06

  They all sleep beneath your skin

• 21:41Speaker 06

  There's no need to let them know

• 21:51Speaker 06

  And it's better if they go

• 22:00Speaker 06

  You can plant a seed tomorrow.

• 22:10Speaker 06

  Watch the flowers as they grow.

• 22:20Speaker 06

  So if you get a broken heart,

• 22:30Speaker 06

  lose your way and fall apart,

• 22:40Speaker 06

  ask nobody else to help you,

• 22:50Speaker 06

  get back on your feet again.

• 23:51Speaker 06

  All right, nice.

• 23:54Speaker 00

  It feels familiar.

• 23:56Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 23:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. They all see beneath your skin. Yeek!

• 24:03Speaker 00

  Yikes!

• 24:06Speaker 00

  It's like what we're always trying to avoid, isn't it? Until you get older and then you're cool.

• 24:12Speaker 06

  Right, then you just reveal too much.

• 24:13Speaker 00

  You're cool taking off your skin.

• 24:15Speaker 06

  Right.

• 24:15Speaker 00

  Wait a second.

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• 26:55Speaker 06

  I know.

• 26:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, you've made so many albums.

• 26:58Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 26:59Speaker 00

  And you've made a lot of different albums, the stuff with Petra Hayden and

• 27:03Speaker 06

  Right.

• 27:04Speaker 00

  John Zorn. I mean, there are so many people. You have a band, The Cosmos.

• 27:08Speaker 06

  Cosmo.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  Just Cosmo.

• 27:10Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah, it's all instrumental music.

• 27:12Speaker 00

  It's with, um,

• 27:13Speaker 06

  Will Grave, Jeremy Guston.

• 27:16Speaker 00

  Great.

• 27:16Speaker 06

  Um, these days, James Buck is playing bass and Kenny plays marimba in the band.

• 27:20Speaker 00

  Oh, that's fun. I saw him with his little shorty.

• 27:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 27:23Speaker 00

  He like custom cut it off, right?

• 27:25Speaker 06

  And he, and he installed a pickup in it.

• 27:27Speaker 00

  That's so cool.

• 27:28Speaker 06

  Yeah, he keeps it in my house, actually. So it gets a, ends up being used on a lot of recordings.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  That's cool. And you've been recording at home a lot.

• 27:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 27:36Speaker 00

  When did that start?

• 27:37Speaker 06

  That started about, oh, six and a half years ago already. Um, that was a huge, huge development. For the longest time, I always thought recording had to happen in a studio. That at home, it would be a distraction or it wouldn't have the same magic or something. And I resisted for a long time and then actually was through making one of the Cosmo records that we recorded at my place and, and my friend who was engineering said, you need to get your own stuff. And finally I said, okay, fine. If you can help me.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:14Speaker 06

  And so he placed an order for me and then I just gave him my credit card.

• 28:19Speaker 00

  I just bought a bunch of stuff.

• 28:20Speaker 06

  Yeah, and then all this gear showed up, like 16 boxes of stuff. And I thought, and I called him, I said, what do I do with this? He said, well, you have to get it wired up.

• 28:30Speaker 00

  You're like, thanks, guy. Are you gonna help me with that?

• 28:34Speaker 06

  And then actually, I called Matt.

• 28:35Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 28:36Speaker 06

  And Matt helped me, yeah. But yeah, it's been a, it's been a life changer. It used to be, you know, if I got together with someone and we wanted to try something, we wrote a song, then we had to wait until we could get into a studio.

• 28:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 06

  Now, you know, I write a song, walk across the room and record it. Or for myself, too, you know, make records or do overdubs or whatever. It used to be, you know, if I wanted to change that one little thing in a song, I had to wait.

• 29:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:01Speaker 06

  Now I just turn on the studio and start working.

• 29:04Speaker 00

  I mean, that's kind of how everyone's doing it now.

• 29:06Speaker 06

  I know, yeah.

• 29:07Speaker 00

  And all the studios are going out of business.

• 29:09Speaker 06

  I know, it's our fault.

• 29:10Speaker 00

  Which is sad, but like, you know, it's also cool that people can just sort of take things into their own, own hands.

• 29:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, I still love the experience of going to a studio and working and making an album in a studio.

• 29:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course.

• 29:23Speaker 06

  There's a, there is a certain energy that happens there.

• 29:26Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, and there's a lot of money spent doing it.

• 29:29Speaker 06

  That's true.

• 29:29Speaker 00

  That's, that's prohibitive to most people.

• 29:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 29:33Speaker 00

  You know, so, but yeah, I feel like all the studios I know that are surviving aren't making money on necessarily.

• 29:43Speaker 06

  Oh, they, they find other means.

• 29:45Speaker 00

  Or they have other means.

• 29:46Speaker 06

  They do like movies or they do.

• 29:48Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, there's a lot of voiceover work.

• 29:50Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 29:51Speaker 00

  Totally. All the studios are gone.

• 29:53Speaker 06

  I mean, in New York, yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 06

  LA's still got studios.

• 29:57Speaker 00

  There's still studios here. I don't know what I'm saying.

• 29:59Speaker 06

  There are not as many.

• 30:00Speaker 00

  No.

• 30:01Speaker 06

  Tons have closed.

• 30:02Speaker 00

  How many songs do you think you've written? Do you know? Because you're very well documented human, as I know. You to be, you're very, you make charts.

• 30:11Speaker 06

  Right.

• 30:12Speaker 00

  You, um, you're an organized person, so you must know how many songs you have.

• 30:18Speaker 06

  I've never, I've never counted.

• 30:20Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 30:21Speaker 06

  Um, but.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  I'd be curious.

• 30:23Speaker 06

  I, just on my own records, I mean, it's.

• 30:26Speaker 00

  You don't have to do math right now.

• 30:28Speaker 06

  Yeah, okay.

• 30:29Speaker 00

  It's just a thought. It's like, it must be.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  In the thousands?

• 30:35Speaker 06

  I don't know. Thousands sounds a lot.

• 30:38Speaker 00

  It sounds like a lot, but I feel like it could be close to a thousand.

• 30:42Speaker 06

  That's possible.

• 30:42Speaker 00

  Which is insane.

• 30:43Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:44Speaker 00

  But, um, because when I was just looking at the number of albums.

• 30:48Speaker 06

  Right.

• 30:49Speaker 00

  Yeah. So Jesse Harrison, The Ferdinandos, that's the first album you made with The Ferdinandos.

• 30:53Speaker 06

  Right.

• 30:53Speaker 00

  So I remember listening to that album like crazy, but I don't remember listening to Don't Know Why. When I look at it and I think about all those songs, I don't remember listening to Don't Know Why, because I think it got somehow eclipsed.

• 31:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, well.

• 31:10Speaker 00

  In a weird way, but.

• 31:12Speaker 06

  Because we started to play it maybe and it took on a life of its own, really.

• 31:16Speaker 00

  But isn't that weird how the brain works?

• 31:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  It's like, I actually was talking to someone who recorded the demos we made at Sony and.

• 31:27Speaker 06

  Will, Will Garrett.

• 31:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  And he was saying that he had the original demo of me singing the songs that we recorded of yours.

• 31:37Speaker 06

  Right.

• 31:38Speaker 00

  For Sony, because he had a publishing deal.

• 31:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 31:41Speaker 00

  And he's like, I have that, that demo and Don't Know Why is on it. And I was like, no, it's not. We did it for the first time at Sorcerer. I just, in my mind, I had completely rewritten it. I just forgot.

• 31:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 31:54Speaker 00

  Isn't that funny?

• 31:54Speaker 06

  I kind of forgot we did it then too.

• 31:56Speaker 00

  I forgot we did it, or maybe I didn't like it, or the version wasn't as good. I don't know. He didn't play it for me, but isn't that funny?

• 32:02Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 00

  Like, in my mind, I never even knew that song until we did it at Sorcerer.

• 32:08Speaker 06

  Right.

• 32:08Speaker 00

  But that's not true at all.

• 32:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, we must have been performing it that whole summer.

• 32:13Speaker 00

  I know, I don't know if we performed it before we recorded it.

• 32:18Speaker 06

  Really?

• 32:18Speaker 00

  With me singing it, but again, I'm remembering everything completely backwards. But I know that I'm, you must have performed it and I must have, I know I listened to that record.

• 32:28Speaker 06

  But we had a version because Dan had his part, you know?

• 32:32Speaker 00

  In my mind, it was just all spontaneous.

• 32:36Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:36Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 32:37Speaker 06

  Well, it happened fast.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  It did happen fast. I think it was the first take.

• 32:40Speaker 06

  It was the first take.

• 32:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:42Speaker 06

  And that was it.

• 32:43Speaker 00

  But it's just funny to me, like, thinking of all that and.

• 32:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:49Speaker 00

  I must have listened to that record that you made with "Don't Know Why" on it, though, a thousand times that summer.

• 32:55Speaker 06

  Sure, but, but we had created our own thing with it.

• 32:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:59Speaker 06

  And we were doing, you know, we were playing The Living Room and other venues that summer. Remember, we drove out to Provincetown, no, not Provincetown. I forget that town's name. We have to look up the name of that town.

• 33:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, we were playing at The Living Room a lot.

• 33:12Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 33:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, it happened really fast, though, I remember.

• 33:17Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 33:18Speaker 00

  But I remember "Don't Know Why" not being like our A tune from when we were playing live.

• 33:23Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 33:23Speaker 00

  Until we did the recording and then it was just such a killer recording. Not that the tune wasn't great, but it wasn't like the one we were always playing, I didn't think.

• 33:34Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 33:35Speaker 00

  I don't either. And it doesn't matter, but I just like, I like, I like to know if my memories are correct because I feel like you keep good, good records in your mind.

• 33:44Speaker 06

  I'm pretty sure that we were playing it because we came in knowing it and it was the first song you wanted to record or one of the first ones.

• 33:50Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 33:51Speaker 06

  So you definitely had a comfort with it already.

• 33:55Speaker 00

  I must have, yeah. Do you find that when you play a song too many times, that recording it is difficult? Because you lose the spontaneity?

• 34:04Speaker 06

  Well, I do think that when you write a song, there is something great about recording it as soon as possible.

• 34:10Speaker 00

  Right?

• 34:11Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 34:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, that's what I find more and more after that, after learning, you know, about.

• 34:19Speaker 06

  Because you start to change how you sing a song once, you know, after a while.

• 34:24Speaker 00

  You kind of stray from the melody.

• 34:25Speaker 06

  Yeah, and if you could get it in that early moment, you're doing some things that you probably kind of filter out later on.

• 34:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, like singing the melody accurately, maybe.

• 34:39Speaker 06

  Yeah, thus why maybe when you tried to re-record the song, it had lost some kind of.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Well, that version was just so good.

• 34:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 34:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. But I find that a lot with with all kinds of songs. I sort of put them away now and then when it's time to record them.

• 34:58Speaker 06

  That makes sense.

• 34:59Speaker 00

  I try not to rehearse.

• 35:00Speaker 06

  Right.

• 35:00Speaker 00

  It too much, you know, stuff like that.

• 35:04Speaker 06

  I think that's smart.

• 35:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. Have you been playing in Paris a lot?

• 35:09Speaker 06

  I have, yeah.

• 35:10Speaker 00

  So where do you play locally in Paris? Like, what's your your spot?

• 35:14Speaker 06

  I tend to do a lot. There's a strip of jazz clubs there in Châtelet. There's the Duc de Lombard, the Bezay Salais, Sunset Sunside. And they're all kind of in a row on this little street. And I usually play there.

• 35:31Speaker 06

  Unless I'm doing some other thing with, you know, sitting in with an artist I work with, who, you know, playing at another venue. But those tend to be where I do my gigs.

• 35:40Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 35:41Speaker 06

  And they're fun.

• 35:41Speaker 00

  That's so fun.

• 35:42Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  Does it feel like you have that same thing in New York now?

• 35:48Speaker 00

  Not really. Not like it used to, right? Okay.

• 35:52Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 35:52Speaker 00

  I was curious about that.

• 35:55Speaker 06

  Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, New York's a little different.

• 36:00Speaker 00

  But but my question is, like, do you really think it's different? Or are we just not?

• 36:05Speaker 06

  In a new phase or a new phase.

• 36:06Speaker 00

  In the phase that's doing that, you know?

• 36:11Speaker 06

  That's a valid question. I just, I think for sure that what's happened in New York is that it's really spread out.

• 36:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:16Speaker 06

  You got venues in Ridgewood, in Bushwick, in, you know, Crown Heights, in Bed-Stuy. You know, like, they're just all over the place.

• 36:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:28Speaker 06

  Or Lower East Side, you know, New Blue. And so there isn't this sense of there being a spot, like a little area where you can go and bounce around to different places.

• 36:39Speaker 00

  Kind of like how the Lower East Side was back in the early 2000s.

• 36:43Speaker 06

  You kind of have to make a choice about your evening now. And where you're gonna spend it.

• 36:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:50Speaker 06

  Things are just really spread out. But there are a lot of cool places, for sure.

• 36:54Speaker 00

  This one song from your album, it has kind of a Parisian vibe.

• 36:58Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 37:00Speaker 00

  Paper flower.

• 37:00Speaker 06

  Paper flower. I thought you were gonna say that one. Yeah. That's true.

• 37:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:06Speaker 00

  You gonna play it?

• 37:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 37:08Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 37:08Speaker 06

  Let's do it. You gonna sing with me?

• 37:11Speaker 00

  What do you want me to sing? Harmony or? I can-

• 37:14Speaker 06

  Do whatever you want.

• 37:15Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 37:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, sing throughout.

• 37:18Speaker 00

  I'll-

• 37:20Speaker 00

  I'll chime in.

• 37:21Speaker 06

  Okay. As much as you want.

• 37:22Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 37:23Speaker 06

  Three, four.

• 37:37Speaker 06

  If you give a paper flower,

• 37:43Speaker 06

  Better say it's from the heart. Flowers all fall apart

• 37:55Speaker 06

  And rot over time.

• 38:01Speaker 06

  I would take a paper flower

• 38:07Speaker 06

  If you tell me that it's real. All I need is to feel

• 38:19Speaker 06

  A push from behind. It's funny how illusion Soon becomes the truth. You can't deny The fact in spite of this old confusion. I don't want a paper flower.

• 38:53Speaker 06

  Touch it to a match it burns. When will I ever learn

• 39:05Speaker 06

  How to read the signs?

• 39:35Speaker 05

  It's funny how illusion soon becomes the truth.

• 39:47Speaker 05

  You can't deny the fact in spite of this old confusion. I don't want a paper flower.

• 40:03Speaker 05

  Touch it to a match it burns. When will I ever learn?

• 40:15Speaker 05

  How to read the signs?

• 40:26Speaker 05

  This paper flower's mine.

• 40:41Speaker 06

  All right.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  Aww, that was sweet.

• 40:43Speaker 06

  Yeah, that was good. You sound beautiful.

• 40:46Speaker 00

  Oh, thanks.

• 40:46Speaker 06

  So fun to play these with you.

• 40:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I feel like, um, over the years, anytime I need a good acoustic guitar part, I call you.

• 40:54Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 40:55Speaker 00

  Because...

• 40:56Speaker 06

  But you, yeah, you've been doing a lot of your own guitar stuff lately, though, which is cool.

• 41:00Speaker 00

  Well, I learned a lot from you and Richard, I feel like, early on. And I, you can, I mean, I can't play acoustic like you. You can do all the finger-picky stuff. But, um, I don't practice enough for that, but...

• 41:12Speaker 06

  Right.

• 41:12Speaker 00

  I feel like the way I play guitar is basically equal parts you, Richard, Julian, and Tony Cher.

• 41:18Speaker 06

  Right.

• 41:19Speaker 00

  Except way worse than all of you, because I don't practice enough.

• 41:22Speaker 06

  But it works.

• 41:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it works.

• 41:24Speaker 06

  You've cobbled together a very useful Frankenstein.

• 41:26Speaker 00

  It's my own thing.

• 41:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's cool.

• 41:30Speaker 06

  Yeah, you sounded, you guys sounded great at Brooklyn Paramount.

• 41:33Speaker 00

  Oh, thanks. It was fun. Yeah, you and Richard came. It was nice.

• 41:38Speaker 06

  It's nice to see Sasha back in the band.

• 41:40Speaker 00

  I know, it's the old crew.

• 41:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:43Speaker 00

  So what are you gonna do this year? Are you gonna be on tour at all? Or do you just sort of play?

• 41:48Speaker 06

  I do little things.

• 41:49Speaker 00

  What are you doing? Are you dibbling and dabbing?

• 41:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's a bunch of different things. Right, you know, I'm doing a few shows right now with Kenny and Tony.

• 41:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 06

  And this keyboard player named Frank Lacrasse, who's really great.

• 41:59Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, he's great.

• 42:00Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I just played over in Paris. I've been going back and forth there and promoting the album and doing some radio shows and stuff like that. But in terms of touring, not that much. I do little sporadic shows. I'm gonna go to Japan and do a tour.

• 42:15Speaker 00

  Ooh, fun.

• 42:16Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:16Speaker 00

  Where are you playing in Tokyo?

• 42:18Speaker 06

  Um, we're gonna play at this club called Duo Music Exchange.

• 42:21Speaker 00

  Oh, cool.

• 42:22Speaker 06

  Yeah. When I do my own thing lately, I've been going there. But like, I played the Blue Note with, um, Gabby Hardman recently.

• 42:29Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 42:29Speaker 06

  Um, but, but yeah, it's either like Blue Note or Duo in Tokyo.

• 42:35Speaker 00

  That's fun.

• 42:35Speaker 06

  And then, but this time, we're gonna go around. I think we're gonna go to Fukuoka.

• 42:38Speaker 00

  Do you not usually?

• 42:41Speaker 06

  I've done a bunch of tours like that. But sometimes, you know, you go over and you just play Tokyo and come home.

• 42:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:47Speaker 06

  So it's way more fun to.

• 42:48Speaker 00

  That's so fun.

• 42:49Speaker 06

  Travel around, yeah.

• 42:50Speaker 00

  The bullet train is my favorite.

• 42:52Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:52Speaker 00

  My favorite snacking in this earth is, uh.

• 42:56Speaker 06

  Oh, my God, yeah.

• 42:57Speaker 00

  The Japanese train stations.

• 42:58Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 00

  This is the most delicious.

• 43:00Speaker 06

  I love it.

• 43:01Speaker 00

  Of snacking.

• 43:03Speaker 06

  But I'm, I'm, you know, I'm producing some different artists. So working at, you know, in my studio and also in Paris with some artists over there.

• 43:13Speaker 00

  That's cool.

• 43:14Speaker 06

  I'm doing my first photography show.

• 43:16Speaker 00

  What?

• 43:16Speaker 06

  Yeah. In Montauk this summer.

• 43:18Speaker 00

  Really?

• 43:19Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:19Speaker 00

  Oh, cool.

• 43:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 43:20Speaker 00

  Where?

• 43:21Speaker 06

  At, have you been to the Ranch? That, oh, it's a cool gallery.

• 43:26Speaker 00

  That's cool.

• 43:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 43:57Speaker 00

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• 46:07Speaker 00

  Um, another couple of weeks. And then go back out on the road.

• 46:12Speaker 06

  Through a lot more shows this summer?

• 46:14Speaker 00

  About a month and a half.

• 46:16Speaker 06

  Oh, wow.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  About a month-ish. I don't know. You know, you lose track.

• 46:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 46:21Speaker 00

  But, um, just in the States.

• 46:23Speaker 06

  Outdoor sheds?

• 46:24Speaker 00

  Some. I kind of had to ask them to stop booking me in certain places in the summer.

• 46:31Speaker 06

  Right.

• 46:31Speaker 00

  Because my crew almost died. It was just too hot.

• 46:34Speaker 06

  Oh, wow.

• 46:34Speaker 00

  You know, we played a show in Nashville a couple of years ago outside in probably July and it, you know.

• 46:41Speaker 06

  It's like a hundred degrees.

• 46:42Speaker 00

  It's just too much for people to work outside all day. My, the sequins on my, my outfit that night melted.

• 46:49Speaker 06

  Oh, my God.

• 46:50Speaker 00

  On my neck. It was weird.

• 46:51Speaker 06

  Whoa.

• 46:52Speaker 00

  It was just very hot. And for people to sit outside, it was, it was too much. So I, I want to hit the hot places like in the winter.

• 46:59Speaker 06

  Right.

• 46:59Speaker 00

  Indoors or something.

• 47:01Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 47:01Speaker 00

  So I've tried to plan it a little.

• 47:03Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 47:03Speaker 00

  More like both.

• 47:05Speaker 06

  And what about Brazil? Ever gonna happen again?

• 47:07Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, yeah. It's my favorite place to go with you.

• 47:09Speaker 06

  I know.

• 47:10Speaker 00

  You have to always come with me.

• 47:12Speaker 06

  I know. We gotta do another one. It's been a long time.

• 47:14Speaker 00

  Not really.

• 47:15Speaker 06

  Has it not?

• 47:16Speaker 00

  Well, if you think about the pandemic.

• 47:18Speaker 06

  That's true.

• 47:18Speaker 00

  It was right before. It was in 2019.

• 47:21Speaker 06

  That's true. Okay, so that's not so long.

• 47:23Speaker 00

  Well, yeah.

• 47:24Speaker 06

  But it is.

• 47:24Speaker 00

  If you erase those two years.

• 47:26Speaker 06

  I know.

• 47:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:27Speaker 06

  Right. You have to adjust.

• 47:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, I'd love to. God, that would be so fun.

• 47:31Speaker 06

  I know. I miss it.

• 47:32Speaker 00

  I do kind of think that that is the best audience. No offense to any other audiences, but they're just so into music and.

• 47:40Speaker 06

  I know.

• 47:41Speaker 00

  But they're so vocal with their love. But not heckly, you know? It's not like they're just yelling random stuff at you like.

• 47:50Speaker 06

  Music in Brazil is like food in Italy.

• 47:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:53Speaker 06

  It's, it's just deeply ingrained in the culture.

• 47:56Speaker 00

  It's so incredible and it feels like you're having a real exchange because they're really getting it or something. I don't know.

• 48:02Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 48:03Speaker 00

  I do feel like it's probably the best audience.

• 48:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, I, I think so.

• 48:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, let's go. All right.

• 48:10Speaker 06

  All right, cool.

• 48:13Speaker 06

  I'm ready.

• 48:14Speaker 00

  Growing up, did you, okay.

• 48:19Speaker 00

  One more question, because this next song we're gonna do, I feel like it has hints of stuff that I know you listened to growing up. So I want to ask you.

• 48:29Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 48:30Speaker 00

  Growing up.

• 48:31Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 48:31Speaker 00

  Where did you learn music from? Was it your dad's record collection?

• 48:36Speaker 06

  My dad's and my mom's.

• 48:38Speaker 00

  And your mom's?

• 48:38Speaker 06

  My father was a much more avid music listener.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  He was, right? I remember this.

• 48:43Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 48:44Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 48:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, so I continue to pilfer his record collection to this day.

• 48:49Speaker 00

  It's great that you have it.

• 48:50Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  So what did he listen to?

• 48:53Speaker 06

  Well, he went through phases, you know? He really loved jazz. And he started listening to jazz in the 60s. So, and he had his favorite artists. Miles Davis, and then all the offshoots of Miles Davis.

• 49:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:08Speaker 06

  You know, Bill Evans, Cannonball Adderley.

• 49:10Speaker 00

  All the good stuff.

• 49:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, some Coltrane, but he loved the modern jazz quartet. And then later, he got into, in the 70s, he got super into everything that was popular then. So he really followed, you know, a lot of these artists into their fusion records. And then new artists doing fusion.

• 49:26Speaker 00

  And that was you growing up, basically?

• 49:27Speaker 06

  Yeah. And then, of course, we listened to Steely Dan, Earth, Wind & Fire, Stevie Wonder. And, you know, that was, yeah, that's a lot of what I heard growing up. And my mom also.

• 49:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, what did your mom listen to?

• 49:41Speaker 06

  She really loved The Police.

• 49:42Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 49:43Speaker 06

  She loved Ricky B Jones.

• 49:44Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, Marie, punk rock.

• 49:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  That's cool.

• 49:47Speaker 06

  Yeah, she had more popular tastes, I guess.

• 49:49Speaker 00

  Okay, I guess The Police, yeah, I said punk rock, but it's, it became more mainstream, yeah.

• 49:55Speaker 06

  But, I mean, they were, you know, they weren't really, they became mainstream later and actually.

• 50:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:01Speaker 06

  Their last album was their most mainstream. Before that, that was the stuff she liked, actually.

• 50:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay.

• 50:06Speaker 06

  Those are earlier records. But yeah, she listened to a lot of like, quote unquote, cooler kind of stuff, you know?

• 50:13Speaker 00

  That's cool.

• 50:15Speaker 06

  And then I just started listening to music on my own. And of course, I went through many different phases.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  When did you, what was your first phase of playing?

• 50:26Speaker 06

  I started the piano when I was 10.

• 50:29Speaker 00

  Okay, lessons, traditional lessons?

• 50:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, piano lessons, classical, practicing scales and arpegios, and I hated it.

• 50:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's the worst.

• 50:37Speaker 06

  And I didn't practice.

• 50:38Speaker 00

  Same.

• 50:39Speaker 06

  And I was, you know, music, I guess, came easily to me. And so I wouldn't practice, and then I'd show up for the lesson, and I would do well at the lesson. My teacher would say, Jesse, if you just practiced, you really could do a lot better.

• 50:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:54Speaker 06

  And I'd say, yes, I know, I'm gonna do it. And then I wouldn't do it. And finally, after four years, you know, I stopped. And, but I still had this desire to play music. And so I started playing harmonica, you know, just going around with a harmonica and playing with people.

• 51:09Speaker 00

  Before the guitar?

• 51:10Speaker 06

  Before the guitar.

• 51:11Speaker 00

  I did not know that.

• 51:12Speaker 06

  Yeah. And so I would buy, I would go down.

• 51:14Speaker 00

  How old were you?

• 51:16Speaker 06

  You know, like 16, 17 years old.

• 51:19Speaker 00

  In New York City?

• 51:20Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm. And so I started going around, you know, buy all the diatonic harmonicas and all the keys and play with friends who played guitar.

• 51:27Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 51:27Speaker 06

  And there was a guitar in my closet, which my mother had found because she moved to California for several years. And when she came back, the people she sublet her place to left a guitar there.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 51:39Speaker 06

  And that was my first guitar. And finally, I decided, I'm gonna learn some Bob Dylan songs. And so, you know, and Neil Young songs. And so I started, I bought some songbooks and learned the chords out of the books.

• 51:51Speaker 00

  At like 17?

• 51:52Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 51:53Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 51:53Speaker 06

  And that, you know, and then started writing songs almost immediately.

• 51:57Speaker 00

  Immediately. Did you feel, did you think, I wanna be a songwriter? Did you think that way? Because I remember the first time I met you and Richard.

• 52:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 52:07Speaker 00

  It was the first time I'd ever met anyone who was a songwriter. And in fact, I said, what do you guys do? What do you guys do? And you said, we're songwriters. So definitively. And I'd never thought of that as like an offshoot option. You didn't say we're musicians.

• 52:22Speaker 06

  Right.

• 52:23Speaker 00

  You said, we're songwriters.

• 52:24Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 52:25Speaker 00

  And that felt so intentional to me. So did, is that how you, did you like shift the way you think and like, I'm gonna be, I'm a songwriter?

• 52:34Speaker 06

  Well.

• 52:35Speaker 00

  Did you think that early on?

• 52:36Speaker 06

  Pretty much. I mean, when I first, yeah, from the moment I started writing songs, I didn't really wanna do anything else.

• 52:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:43Speaker 06

  But then it was when I was in Once Blue that I started to have to think about writing songs that I wouldn't sing.

• 52:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a whole other thing.

• 52:51Speaker 06

  That had to be solid, you know, that had to be good enough for someone else to put themselves into, both melodically and lyrically. And so that was, you know, the beginning of a lot of work to start to understand what that would be.

• 53:06Speaker 00

  Was there somebody that you saw that did that, that you kind of thought about it in that way? Like, did you think of a a specific songwriter who did that?

• 53:16Speaker 06

  That's a good question.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  Or it just kind of sort of all came around?

• 53:20Speaker 06

  It kind of, it was more the latter, but, you know, I mean, of course, I was well aware that a lot of people sang Bob Dylan songs, but I didn't really model my songwriting after him.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  But I don't, did you feel like he ever wrote for other people? He probably just wrote for himself.

• 53:34Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think he was just churning out tunes and people were just plucking them and, you know.

• 53:37Speaker 00

  Not like a Brille building thing where they were specifically writing for other people?

• 53:41Speaker 06

  Right, like Carole King or something.

• 53:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:46Speaker 06

  No, I, yeah, it's funny though. Later on, I came to discover that, like in the Brazilian world, they were doing more of this. People, you know, a lot of singers like Gal Costa would cover Caetano's songs or Gilberto Gil's songs, for example. But I was kind of the same. I wasn't really writing for other people. I was still writing songs, but trying to write songs that other people could sing.

• 54:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:12Speaker 06

  Or that would, you know, work for another person. And a lot of that came down to lyric writing, too. And melody, of course, as I said before, but making lyrics that another person could put themselves into.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. Do you ever feel like you're taking yourself out of songs? Like, just one word here, one specific word there, you know, like?

• 54:34Speaker 06

  No, I don't, I've never filtered myself like that.

• 54:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's not that.

• 54:38Speaker 06

  It's more that I try to-

• 54:39Speaker 00

  That, like, orchestrated, yeah.

• 54:43Speaker 06

  No, it's more that I try to let the song, whatever it is, be its own, have its own life.

• 54:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:51Speaker 06

  To have its own logic and its own story. And I feel like songs do have their own intention.

• 54:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, they kind of grab you and pull you along whatever path, right?

• 55:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, I feel like you just have to kind of help them become what they're supposed to be.

• 55:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's the right way to think about it.

• 55:11Speaker 06

  But I think when I was, there was also a period where I think I was a little bit lazy and I didn't work hard enough on certain things that later I decided.

• 55:18Speaker 00

  Really?

• 55:19Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 55:19Speaker 00

  Like what?

• 55:20Speaker 06

  Like lyrics. I listened to some of my records, some of the other one, older ones or middle ones or whatever, some songs work and then others I'm like, come on, I could have done so much better.

• 55:31Speaker 00

  Oh, I hate that. It's like on record.

• 55:34Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's out there in the world. There's nothing you can do. But that's cool. I mean, it's cool for people to see things that, you know, that all sides of it, you know.

• 55:44Speaker 00

  Watch you grow.

• 55:45Speaker 06

  Of a person or an artist, yeah.

• 55:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, I think it's funny because I think the, you know, I didn't really write songs when I met you. I had written a couple of songs in high school that were stinky, so I'd stopped. And then after I met you, you would send me, you sent me one flight down, right?

• 56:02Speaker 06

  Yes, I did.

• 56:03Speaker 00

  When I still lived in Texas?

• 56:04Speaker 06

  Yeah, I sent it to you in the mail.

• 56:06Speaker 00

  You sent me a chord chart and lyrics.

• 56:09Speaker 06

  And the melody was written on there, too.

• 56:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, but not, not a recording.

• 56:12Speaker 06

  No recording. Yeah, it was a lead sheet.

• 56:13Speaker 00

  It was just a lead sheet.

• 56:14Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:16Speaker 00

  And I had, I was like, oh, okay, cool.

• 56:19Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 56:19Speaker 00

  And I think I played it, but I never played it on a gig until we started doing our.

• 56:23Speaker 06

  Right.

• 56:24Speaker 00

  Our gig.

• 56:24Speaker 06

  You sent me a letter back and you said, my mom really likes your song.

• 56:27Speaker 00

  My mom likes your song?

• 56:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 56:29Speaker 00

  That's so funny.

• 56:29Speaker 06

  A lot of people don't know about you.

• 56:31Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 56:32Speaker 06

  That you're really good at sight reading melodies and singing them off the page.

• 56:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, I am because I learned how to do that very early. I took a weird. Music theory class in elementary school.

• 56:45Speaker 06

  Right.

• 56:46Speaker 00

  Along with my classical class, which I never practiced for. But the sight reading stuff, I had to redo it all in high school, at the Performing Arts High School, and then all in college. And I tested out of it because I had already done all that.

• 56:58Speaker 06

  Oh, amazing.

• 56:58Speaker 00

  But I'm not great at reading, uh, reading full music, like classical music.

• 57:03Speaker 06

  Just a line of melody.

• 57:05Speaker 00

  A line of melody is so easy for me. But to read like, you know, a bunch of like-

• 57:10Speaker 06

  The whole thing.

• 57:10Speaker 00

  The whole thing with the bass clef is still a little tricky for me. But I got really good at reading chord charts.

• 57:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, you would do those gigs.

• 57:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:17Speaker 06

  Where you just open up the real book.

• 57:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:19Speaker 06

  Any song and sing it.

• 57:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, so that's why you sent me that, because you knew I did that.

• 57:24Speaker 06

  I guess, yeah, I mean, I, maybe I, I guess I knew because Kenny had gone to see you perform.

• 57:31Speaker 00

  That's right, you hadn't seen me.

• 57:32Speaker 06

  I didn't, I hadn't even gone yet, yeah.

• 57:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, he came to the restaurant, Popolo's in Dallas.

• 57:37Speaker 06

  But I could tell that you knew what you were talking about because when we were doing that at first, little jam session, you were calling out the chords in your key.

• 57:46Speaker 00

  What a precocious little [BLEEP].

• 57:48Speaker 06

  Yeah. Totally.

• 57:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was 18.

• 57:53Speaker 06

  18 or 19, yeah.

• 57:54Speaker 00

  I was 19.

• 57:55Speaker 06

  Yeah, I just turned 19.

• 57:56Speaker 00

  I had just turned 19.

• 57:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 57:57Speaker 00

  That's crazy. Yeah, and so when we started playing together, I could, I came at it from a jazz place. And you always have had a lot of jazz influence, but you came at it from a more structured place.

• 58:11Speaker 06

  Right.

• 58:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:13Speaker 06

  Well, that's what was so cool.

• 58:15Speaker 00

  That was cool.

• 58:15Speaker 06

  To hear you play piano over these chords and bring them to life in a different way that I hadn't heard before.

• 58:22Speaker 00

  No, it was cool. I mean, we did it.

• 58:24Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 00

  It was awesome.

• 58:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 58:27Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, that's crazy. Those were the days.

• 58:32Speaker 07

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• 1:01:27Speaker 00

  Let's do another song from your new album.

• 1:01:29Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:01:29Speaker 00

  This one reminds me of that 70s kind of stuff, the influence.

• 1:01:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:01:35Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:01:35Speaker 05

  You're gonna sing with me, right?

• 1:01:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:37Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:01:38Speaker 00

  I can do this one.

• 1:01:39Speaker 05

  Okay, good.

• 1:01:39Speaker 00

  Yay.

• 1:01:40Speaker 05

  All right.

• 1:01:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  Angular. Angular, baby.

• 1:01:49Speaker 05

  All right. Two, three.

• 1:02:01Speaker 05

  We gotta know where we're going. Or else we could lose our way. If we find trouble, we'll have ourselves to blame.

• 1:02:20Speaker 05

  We gotta know what we're doing. It's easy to make mistakes. When no one's looking, that's when the world can change.

• 1:02:39Speaker 05

  We gotta know what we got. Cause if we lose, we lose a lot. We gotta know when to stop searching for what we got.

• 1:03:07Speaker 05

  We gotta know what we're thinking. It's easy to think too much. And keep on pushing until we're out of touch.

• 1:03:26Speaker 05

  We gotta know what we got. 'Cause if we lose, we lose a lot. We gotta know when to stop searching for what we got.

• 1:03:54Speaker 05

  We gotta know what we got. 'Cause if we lose, we lose a lot. We gotta know when to stop searching for what we got.

• 1:04:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:37Speaker 06

  Alright.

• 1:04:38Speaker 00

  I like that. That's fun.

• 1:04:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:04:40Speaker 00

  Well, it's funny because I came to music singing other people's songs mostly.

• 1:04:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:04:46Speaker 00

  Through jazz.

• 1:04:47Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:04:47Speaker 00

  Singing the old songs. Being afraid of songwriting. Singing your songs.

• 1:04:53Speaker 00

  And then the more and more I wrote, I feel like the harder it's become to sing other people's songs.

• 1:05:00Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:05:01Speaker 00

  Which is such a weird thing.

• 1:05:04Speaker 06

  Well.

• 1:05:04Speaker 00

  I mean, I get it, but it's a funny thing. It's like an evolution of things.

• 1:05:09Speaker 06

  Sure. If you grow accustomed also to expressing yourself in that way.

• 1:05:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:13Speaker 06

  Then you're gonna want that opportunity for yourself, you know?

• 1:05:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, it's funny, because I feel like early on, like on my second and third record, you know, I wrote more and more, but I was still writing, like, still very timid about it. Still crafting the songs in a way that I was into, you know? But then the more years have passed, I feel like it's just the emotion, it's more emotion in it now than I used to put in it. And I don't know how to capture that emotion singing other people's songs.

• 1:05:52Speaker 06

  Interesting.

• 1:05:53Speaker 00

  But I know that I used to be able to do that.

• 1:05:55Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:05:56Speaker 00

  And I feel like it's almost like a skill I've lost a little bit.

• 1:06:00Speaker 06

  Really?

• 1:06:01Speaker 00

  A little bit.

• 1:06:02Speaker 06

  I feel that you get an opportunity to be an interpreter sometimes in outside projects, though.

• 1:06:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I don't completely feel the rawness as much as I... I mean, I used to not think about it.

• 1:06:18Speaker 06

  Maybe because you didn't write as many songs, you would pour everything into the songs that you sang.

• 1:06:24Speaker 00

  Maybe. Or I would relate to it and be like, "Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking, damn it." And now I can write what I'm thinking. But isn't that weird?

• 1:06:34Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:06:34Speaker 00

  It's funny.

• 1:06:35Speaker 06

  You know, we're all evolving and changing.

• 1:06:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:38Speaker 06

  Ideally, hopefully.

• 1:06:40Speaker 00

  Hopefully. But yeah, I do feel like I'm not good at it anymore. Like, which is a weird thing.

• 1:06:48Speaker 06

  I don't think that's true. I disagree.

• 1:06:52Speaker 00

  But you know what it is? It's the honesty. I feel like when I was young, I felt very honest singing all those songs. And I still feel honest singing them because I have to sing them like I wrote them.

• 1:07:04Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  Because like when I sing "Don't Know Why" and people get so excited, I feel like I wrote it. I always give you credit, but I...

• 1:07:11Speaker 06

  I feel like it's your song now.

• 1:07:13Speaker 00

  But I feel like I have to sing it like it's mine, but I don't even think about it. I just do it.

• 1:07:18Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:07:18Speaker 00

  I own it in my heart. And I feel that way with the songs I've done in the past that I still do now. But I find it harder to adopt a new song that I didn't write.

• 1:07:31Speaker 06

  Right, like making a new friend or something.

• 1:07:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, well. Isn't it funny? You keep thinking, yeah, I don't need any more friends. And then you get into the next decade of your life and you realize you have a whole new set of friends.

• 1:07:42Speaker 06

  Yeah. But that's interesting.

• 1:07:44Speaker 00

  I thought it was interesting.

• 1:07:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:07:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:47Speaker 06

  Well, you know, it is something you've been working on and it wasn't there before.

• 1:07:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:52Speaker 06

  And so it makes sense.

• 1:07:55Speaker 00

  That's funny, but I still own your songs in my heart.

• 1:07:59Speaker 06

  Well, you certainly own them when you sing them. That's for sure.

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  I love them. People get so happy when they hear them. It just like, it brings people joy and it makes me so happy.

• 1:08:09Speaker 06

  Well, that's good.

• 1:08:10Speaker 00

  People always ask like, "Do you ever get sick of singing the same songs from your first record?" And I never do because the amount of like good energy it generates, it makes me so happy.

• 1:08:22Speaker 06

  Plus, you kind of rearrange them each time you do them.

• 1:08:24Speaker 00

  I don't even mean to. I think they just evolved, but...

• 1:08:27Speaker 06

  I like that groove you guys do with Brian on "Don't Know Why", that kind of gospel groove that it has now.

• 1:08:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, I like it too. But I hope people aren't bummed that it's a little different, you know?

• 1:08:39Speaker 06

  They don't seem bummed.

• 1:08:40Speaker 00

  But you know what I mean. Sometimes you don't want to change it too much.

• 1:08:43Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:08:44Speaker 00

  I did sing it once. I sing it once at a festival and I realized I was phrasing the bridge differently. And the audience started singing along. And I wasn't singing with them correctly. And so I checked myself because I didn't even realize I was doing it. So I went back to the old way.

• 1:09:03Speaker 06

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:09:03Speaker 00

  It's just funny. Things drift off the map sometimes. You don't know that they are.

• 1:09:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's true. You just start doing it a different way when you're thinking about it. But I think the audience, it depends on the performer, you know, like if James Taylor sings "Fire and Rain," it has to be the same every single time, pretty much. But Dylan,

• 1:09:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:24Speaker 06

  if the audience even figures out what song he's singing, they're so excited. As soon as they realize what, like, you know, "Oh, that's the groom still waiting at the altar." Then they're really excited that they know it, and then they'll start chanting along to the lyrics, even though they're not even close to being in his phrasing.

• 1:09:41Speaker 00

  I know. It's funny. Yeah, it's something I don't think about much, but hopefully it's cool that it's a little different.

• 1:09:49Speaker 06

  Well, yeah, it's totally cool.

• 1:09:51Speaker 07

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• 1:10:19Speaker 00

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• 1:12:26Speaker 00

  Well, thanks for doing this.

• 1:12:28Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 1:12:29Speaker 00

  I was wondering if you wanted to try "World of Trouble." Because this is the first song that is from one of those demos we made with Sony. But it's actually, it helped get me signed because I gave Bruce at Blue Note, I gave him a recording of me doing a jazz tune. Actually, two jazz tunes and "World of Trouble."

• 1:12:53Speaker 00

  And then we recorded it for "The Hottest State," the movie.

• 1:12:57Speaker 06

  For Ethan's film, yeah.

• 1:12:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, you did the soundtrack to that film.

• 1:13:00Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:13:01Speaker 00

  And that was much later.

• 1:13:03Speaker 06

  That was much later.

• 1:13:04Speaker 00

  But I still remember it. Which album is it on of yours?

• 1:13:07Speaker 06

  It's on Crooked Lines.

• 1:13:08Speaker 00

  It's on Crooked Lines because I loved that album so much. And I used to just sing along with it. And so it was one of my favorites of yours from the olden days.

• 1:13:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:13:16Speaker 00

  Okay, we have a key discrepancy.

• 1:13:18Speaker 06

  We sure do.

• 1:13:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13:19Speaker 06

  We're very far away from each other.

• 1:13:20Speaker 00

  I'm really surprised because you have a high timbre. And I, I feel like, I don't get it. I don't get the key to.

• 1:13:27Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 1:13:28Speaker 00

  Oh, you know, I know why. Because it's, it starts off slow.

• 1:13:31Speaker 06

  Right, it starts low and then it goes.

• 1:13:33Speaker 00

  And then it goes high, yeah.

• 1:13:34Speaker 06

  So, yeah.

• 1:13:36Speaker 00

  So you said D flat.

• 1:13:38Speaker 06

  I mean, I was singing in D flat, can I?

• 1:13:39Speaker 00

  What about C? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:41Speaker 06

  Can you do C? You want to do C?

• 1:13:42Speaker 00

  Take your time, what do you need?

• 1:13:43Speaker 06

  No, let's do C, but C, I don't need a capo.

• 1:13:45Speaker 00

  I don't get why we're so different.

• 1:13:48Speaker 06

  It's a weird song to sing, basically. It's a hard song. Yeah, I kind of, I did a disservice to all of us.

• 1:13:55Speaker 00

  No, it's a great song, it's just a hard, hard song.

• 1:13:58Speaker 06

  The story of the recording from Crooked Lines is funny. Because we, as I said, made that record at Tony's house. And we had recorded that song early on. And, and after we did it, we were like, cool, that's good, but we can do it better. And for a solid year, we kept recording that song. And every time we did it, we're like, I don't know, we just don't, just not quite getting that one. And one day, Tony, because it was all reel, reel to reel.

• 1:14:25Speaker 00

  Oh, you were recording on tape?

• 1:14:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, we were on half inch, it was eight track, half inch. And one day, he put up a reel. Because he, you know, Tony, like, he doesn't, he wasn't really marking the boxes very well. So we didn't even know what was on this reel, so he put the reel up to see what was there. And all of a sudden, because all the tracks are open, there were, the song started to play, and there were two vocals playing at the same time.

• 1:14:51Speaker 00

  Oh, that's right, it's got a doubled vocal.

• 1:14:53Speaker 06

  But it was never meant to be, that was just two different takes of the vocal. Where I sang it live, and then I was like, can I do it again? And I did it again. And then we heard them together, and then we said, oh, let's just leave it like that.

• 1:15:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, so you had the take, you just.

• 1:15:06Speaker 06

  We'd had it for a year.

• 1:15:07Speaker 00

  It needed a double vocal.

• 1:15:09Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:15:10Speaker 00

  Well, it's such a slow song.

• 1:15:12Speaker 06

  Yes, super slow.

• 1:15:12Speaker 00

  And I find that songs this slow and vibey are really hard to just get. Because if you don't just get them.

• 1:15:19Speaker 06

  That's true.

• 1:15:19Speaker 00

  You can't labor over them, really.

• 1:15:21Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:15:22Speaker 00

  They have to have that little bit of magic dust. Yeah.

• 1:15:26Speaker 00

  Let's see if D works. Okay. We're gonna meet somewhere in the middle. High part will be high, but I think I can do it. Why don't you do the first verse? Okay. And I'll sing harmony on the bridge. And then I'll do night, night when the phone rings. Okay. Is that cool? Sure. Okay, and then what, the last one we do together? This is the last one? Yeah. Okay. Okay, cool. Yeah, right? Yeah. And sing on "World of Trouble" with me, even on the verse I do. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Okay.

• 1:16:10Speaker 00

  It starts off slow with a kiss of folly. And you don't see it as more.

• 1:16:27Speaker 00

  But after a while, will all the dogs see you? Sneaking in the back door.

• 1:16:44Speaker 00

  You don't believe when they tell you.

• 1:16:53Speaker 00

  You don't believe.

• 1:17:01Speaker 00

  Down a world of shovels is all you see.

• 1:17:20Speaker 00

  Nights when the phone rings. And it's so easy to get up and go back again.

• 1:17:37Speaker 00

  You don't stop, you don't think to live without it. Knowing that you'll never win.

• 1:17:55Speaker 00

  You don't believe what they tell you.

• 1:18:04Speaker 00

  You don't believe.

• 1:18:12Speaker 00

  That a world of trouble is all you see.

• 1:19:05Speaker 05

  This is the last time, or the beginning. Whenever you say it's enough.

• 1:19:23Speaker 05

  While each day, each month rolls out behind you. The lost time is calling your blood.

• 1:19:40Speaker 05

  You don't believe what they tell you. You don't believe. That a world of trouble is all you see.

• 1:20:45Speaker 06

  I thought that worked.

• 1:20:46Speaker 00

  It was great.

• 1:20:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:20:47Speaker 00

  Boy, she brings me back that song. That was the special thing about that little time.

• 1:20:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:20:54Speaker 00

  And going to see everybody at the living room is they would actually just play their songs. And you would get to know them before you'd even hear a recording.

• 1:21:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, in fact, I would often bring new songs to the gig.

• 1:21:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:08Speaker 06

  To my gigs and do them for the first time at the gig.

• 1:21:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:12Speaker 06

  Same with you. I remember the first time that we did The Long Day Is Over.

• 1:21:16Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:21:17Speaker 06

  Was live at Fez.

• 1:21:18Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, that one gig.

• 1:21:20Speaker 06

  Same thing. I brought you a lead sheet. I was like, let's do this new song tonight. You know, and you and I had.

• 1:21:25Speaker 00

  No, we wrote it together.

• 1:21:26Speaker 06

  It wasn't Long Days Over. It was, what the hell was it?

• 1:21:31Speaker 00

  I don't know. What was it?

• 1:21:33Speaker 06

  It was another song. Or maybe it was Long Days Over.

• 1:21:37Speaker 00

  But we had just written it.

• 1:21:37Speaker 06

  We had just written it.

• 1:21:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:39Speaker 06

  But I brought the lead sheet and we did it for the first time on the gig.

• 1:21:42Speaker 00

  Maybe. Oh, you brought the lead sheet for Lee, maybe.

• 1:21:46Speaker 06

  But.

• 1:21:46Speaker 00

  On the bass.

• 1:21:47Speaker 06

  But maybe the lyrics hadn't been written yet or something.

• 1:21:50Speaker 00

  I don't know, but I just remember that time being so special because like, I wasn't, I was barely writing songs. And it's why I started writing songs. I came home from seeing like you guys and Tony at the living room and I wrote Come Away With Me in my room alone.

• 1:22:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:22:05Speaker 00

  With a guitar that I could barely play.

• 1:22:07Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:22:07Speaker 00

  Because I was inspired, you know?

• 1:22:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, and that room that had only a bed.

• 1:22:12Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, my little room.

• 1:22:13Speaker 06

  Bedrock.

• 1:22:14Speaker 00

  Bedrock. We called it bedrock. Hi, would you like to come hang out in my bed with me? Because that's the only place I have to hang out. Not romantically, just we'll, we'll rock out. Play some songs. Yeah, that's right. Oh, those days. Well, love you. Thanks.

• 1:22:31Speaker 06

  Love you too.

• 1:22:32Speaker 00

  This was fun.

• 1:22:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, thanks so much.

• 1:22:34Speaker 00

  All right, cool. Yay.

• 1:22:37Speaker 06

  All right, yeah.

• 1:22:38Speaker 00

  Thanks, Jesse.

• 1:22:39Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 1:22:51Speaker 00

  That was so fun. I love the story of how you guys met. It's so special that you've stayed connected for so long. Yeah, it's a good story, actually. You finish each other's sandwiches.

• 1:23:04Speaker 00

  It's sweet. It was sweet. I'll never forget the day I met him and those guys. It was a special day for me. It was really great to play music. We never really get to play together anymore, just like old times. Yeah. Jesse's got a lot of new stuff coming out all the time. So check his pages and go see him live. He plays a lot, obviously, in Paris as we went over, and a lot sometimes in New York City. And he goes on tour. So check him out wherever he is. If you want to know what songs we played on this episode, the first song was called "Having a Ball." It's a song I sang with Jesse on his new album, "If You Believed in Me," that just came out earlier this month. Second song was "I've Got to See You Again,"

• 1:23:47Speaker 00

  which I did record on my first album, "Come Away With Me." But he also recorded it on his album, "Crooked Lines" by Jesse Harrison the Ferdinando's in 2001. And then again, on another album, Songs Never Sung. Third song was a newer song of Jesse's called "If You Get a Broken Heart" from the album Paper Flower 2024. Fourth song was "Paper Flower" from the same album. The fifth song we did was "We Gotta Know" from Paper Flower. And the sixth song is "World of Trouble," which has been on a lot of different albums. My demos from the "Come Away With Me" deluxe album, "The Crooked Lines," Jesse Harrison the Ferdinando's album from 2001,

• 1:24:29Speaker 00

  and from the soundtrack to the movie "The Hottest State," 2007. Special thanks to Jesse Harris for joining us today. Next week, we'll be back with Sam Smith. Norah Jones is playing along as a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Norah Jones. This episode was recorded by Matt Marinelli, mixed by Jamie Landry, edited by Sarah Oda, additional engineering by Greg Tobler, additional recording by Jamie Landry, artwork by Eliza Fry, photography by Shirven Lenes, produced by me and Sarah Oda. Executive producers Erin Wong Kaufman and Jordan Runtog. Marketing lead, Queen Anaki. Toodles.

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