Jeff Tweedy

Jeff Tweedy is a musician, songwriter, author and frontman of the prolific band, Wilco.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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  Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything, because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:37Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm reloving Playing Along with Jeff Tweedy. This was our first episode ever.

• 1:56Speaker 00

  Hey, I'm Nora, and with me as always is Sarah Oda. Welcome back to our first episode ever. Yeah, we're going back in time. Oh, my gosh. This was the first episode, and now we've done 70 episodes, seven zero. Yeah, plus. Which is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. We've come a long way. Jeff was the perfect first guest. It actually was not the very first episode we recorded, just a little tidbit, but it was the first one we released. Yeah. And he was a dream and a great guest. He's one of my favorite musicians, and he's one of the most adventurous musicians that I know. Yeah, you might know him from Wilco or his many other projects and collaborations, and this episode features songs from across his catalog with Wilco and as well as his solo work.

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  But since we recorded this in 2022, he's kept very busy. Wilco released Cousin, which was a record produced by Cat Le Bon in 2023. Jeff released his third book, World Within a Song, also 2023. Wilco also released Hot Sun, Cool Shroud, which was an EP in 2024, and Jeff released his triple album, Twilight Override, in 2025, and he toured the US with his family band. And earlier this year, Wilco reunited with Billy Bragg to perform the songs of Mermaid Avenue at their Solid Sound Festival. Jeff will be embarking on another solo tour this fall. See dates at wilcoworld.net/shows. Gosh, he is so busy. I know.

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  And today is his birthday. Da, da, da, da. Happy birthday. Happy birthday, Jeff. We love you. Please enjoy the episode that started it all with Jeff Tweedy.

• 3:44Speaker 05

  That sounds great.

• 3:46Speaker 00

  I love that.

• 3:52Speaker 05

  It's Kel Croyden.

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  Kel Croyden.

• 3:54Speaker 05

  They were made for, they were made by Gibson during the Depression.

• 4:00Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 4:01Speaker 05

  For a toy company.

• 4:02Speaker 00

  Oh, that's why they has the birds?

• 4:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:05Speaker 00

  The tattoo?

• 4:06Speaker 05

  The birds are hand painted. I have like six of these, and the birds are really wildly different on all of them.

• 4:12Speaker 00

  Really?

• 4:12Speaker 05

  Depending on, I think depending on what day of the week they were painted.

• 4:16Speaker 00

  That's beautiful.

• 4:17Speaker 05

  You know, like Fridays, the dots are all like, let's get out of here.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  I love it. I should get one.

• 4:22Speaker 05

  You should.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:23Speaker 05

  They're really, there's, this weighs like less than three pounds.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Oh, I love that.

• 4:30Speaker 05

  It's the lightest guitar.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, because I hate carrying guitars. They're just so heavy.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  It's for kids.

• 4:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:41Speaker 05

  I know you're not a gearhead. That's why I'm only talking about gear.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  Let's just talk about gear.

• 4:44Speaker 05

  I really want to talk about gear.

• 4:45Speaker 00

  I am not a gearhead, but I'm still interested. I mean, I start glazing over sometimes if it gets too geary, but.

• 4:52Speaker 05

  I sensed it. I sensed that you were.

• 4:54Speaker 00

  I totally felt, I just fell asleep.

• 4:55Speaker 05

  Stay with me.

• 4:56Speaker 00

  Okay, stay with, I'm here. So, thanks for doing my podcast. I'm just gonna take a nap over here while you talk about guitars.

• 5:02Speaker 05

  I have that effect on a lot of people.

• 5:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Niall Rogers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic, but in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll

• 5:47Speaker 00

  hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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• 6:38Speaker 00

  So, so what about the Tweedy Show? Like, how do I train my kids to be in a band with me when they're older? Or how do I trick them into doing that? Do I just not, not, I just tell them I never want to play music with them? Like, how did that happen? How did that end up being so wonderfully, you know, amazing?

• 6:58Speaker 05

  Well, Spencer, I think, just came out of the womb wanting to play music, and he's, you know, he used to ask to be, you know, ask us to sit him at the drum kit and hold him up before he could even get on the drum throne by himself.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 7:18Speaker 05

  And he would play, and even, my wife's rock club, they had a drum kit in the basement, and the bands that would be playing there would go like, come here, you gotta check this kid out. He's like, it seems like he knows what he's doing, but he was only like one or two years old.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  That's pretty great.

• 7:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, so he had like a natural, you know, interest that was really sweet, and and he just kind of, I don't know, I don't remember him practicing or getting good. It just feels like he always.

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  Just happened.

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  Knew how to do it.

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  And so Spencer and I, that was like our version of playing catch, and it still is. So, you know, I think Sammy resisted, I think, a little bit because it was his older brother's thing, and it was so natural for Spencer, that he seemed to want to find his own thing for a long time. And then eventually, he just surrendered, you know, this is something fun to do, and he started joining in, and he discovered that he has a, you know, has a sweet voice and, and felt empowered singing, so he started singing more with us.

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  So great.

• 8:29Speaker 05

  But I think, I think the main thing is to just not let it be a drag.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  I know. That's kind of what, it's delicate, because anytime I tell them to do anything, or try to get them to learn something, they immediately resist it, so.

• 8:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I feel like a lot of, I think, you know, parents struggle with this, how hard do you push somebody, and are they gonna thank you for it later, or regret that you didn't push them harder? You know, I feel like that with the piano for, for Sammy in particular, because he was so resistant to it that we just kind of, you know, backed off. And now that it's so important to him, I feel like we kind of undersold it to him a little bit.

• 9:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, like when I was little, as soon as I started taking piano lessons, I wanted to quit because I didn't want to practice every week, you know, and my mom said, well, you can quit after you take for five years. And so that was her kind of compromise.

• 9:26Speaker 05

  Right.

• 9:27Speaker 00

  So by that point, I had enough to continue if I wanted to pick it back up, which I did.

• 9:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:32Speaker 00

  But yeah, it's weird. It's like.

• 9:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, it just is, you know, it just ends up being part of the, I don't know, just part of how it happens for an individual. For Sammy, it kind of maybe opened the door to him finding a sincere appreciation for it, you know, but you'll never know what would have happened if you pushed him a little harder on that. And, but he.

• 9:56Speaker 00

  He might have burnt out and not wanted to do it.

• 9:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, he might have like, he just really developed a hatred for it. But yeah, no, he ended up really gravitating towards synthesis and, and electronic music and learning how to put all that together, which he's a really, he's really expert at all of that.

• 10:13Speaker 00

  That's awesome.

• 10:13Speaker 05

  And so he kind of came at it from a weirder angle.

• 10:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, but that's, weird is good.

• 10:20Speaker 05

  No, it's great.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  Weird is great.

• 10:23Speaker 00

  If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Niall Rogers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic, but in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll

• 11:05Speaker 00

  hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 11:18Speaker 00

  Hi, this is Mara Lopez from All Mara Lopez Daily Podcast.

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• 11:54Speaker 00

  Would you like to play a song with me?

• 11:56Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  Do you think, let's see, should we try to do "Jesus"?

• 12:02Speaker 05

  Sure.

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  Et cetera, because it's, we have history together.

• 12:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

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  It's your song, you have history with it, of course. But we kind of have history with that song.

• 12:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, I remember.

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  Like when I got the words wrong?

• 12:15Speaker 05

  I remember that.

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  Yeah.

• 12:17Speaker 05

  You said, "It's all we got's honey."

• 12:19Speaker 00

  Well, so I really did.

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  Isn't that what you thought it was?

• 12:23Speaker 00

  I thought that's what the lyrics were. And I didn't even Google them because I loved the song so much. And I really thought that the lyrics were, "Our love is all we got's honey." And they were not.

• 12:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, which it does sound like that.

• 12:43Speaker 00

  When you Google lyrics all the time, I mean, they come out wrong anyway.

• 12:47Speaker 05

  All of my, yeah.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  So.

• 12:50Speaker 05

  I think if you Google these, they're probably wrong.

• 12:52Speaker 00

  Well, can I ask you a question? Is it "voices whine" or "voices cry"? Or both?

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  What's it say on there, "cry"?

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  It says "whine."

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  I don't know until I'm singing it, to be honest. I think it's "whine."

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  Okay.

• 13:10Speaker 05

  But you think it's "cry"?

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  No, I think you're, it's, I don't think anything is your song.

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  Do you know, like, when Lenny Bruce was, not Lenny Bruce,

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  Phil Ochs was testifying in a courtroom about some of his songs having some obscenity or something like that. They asked him some of his lyrics and he couldn't remember them. And they had to get him a guitar so that he could remember them.

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  Yeah, that's kind of how it is.

• 13:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  I know what you mean.

• 13:38Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:39Speaker 00

  Well.

• 13:40Speaker 05

  But when we get to that, it'll be interesting because now it's in my head.

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  I shouldn't have said a word.

• 13:45Speaker 05

  One time, we did this song, we did live band karaoke and we had contest winners singing the songs at our festival, Solid Sound. And we put a bouncing ball version of all the songs up on the screen behind us. And the crowd was just like, huh?

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  I invented all of the lyrics except for "Jesus," et cetera. I just assumed it would be right. And it was like really wild.

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  It was really off. It was probably from my recording of it.

• 14:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, probably, yeah. They're all like, "All we got's what?"

• 14:18Speaker 00

  "All we got's honey." I was so, I was like shocked when you said that to me. You're like, "So you changed the lyric, that lyric." And I was like, "What are you talking about, Jeff Tweedy?"

• 14:30Speaker 00

  Well, this is one of my favorite songs of the last 20 years.

• 14:33Speaker 05

  Oh, thank you.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  When was this released?

• 14:35Speaker 05

  20 years ago.

• 14:36Speaker 00

  Exactly, like 20 years ago, right?

• 14:38Speaker 05

  On September, it was, the record was supposed to come out on September 11th, 2001.

• 14:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:44Speaker 05

  And we were dropped from our label, so that release date went away. And we ended up streaming it on September 18th for free on the internet.

• 14:53Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 14:54Speaker 05

  And then it officially came out, I think, in April or something of 2002.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, and my first record came out in February of 2002. And I met you for the first time on the Jules Holland Show.

• 15:07Speaker 05

  Right.

• 15:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 05

  Yeah. And we were doing songs off of this record.

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  Yeah, and this is like my first sort of introduction to you.

• 15:14Speaker 05

  Oh, well.

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  So I love this song.

• 15:17Speaker 05

  Probably not alone in that.

• 15:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, but you know, it's a good introduction.

• 15:32Speaker 05

  Jesus, don't cry.

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  You can rely on me, honey.

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  You can come by anything you want.

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  I'll stick around.

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  You were right about the stars.

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  Each one is a setting sun.

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  Tower buildings shake. Voices escape, singing sad, sad songs tuned to chords strung down your cheeks. Bitter melodies, turning your orbit around.

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  Don't cry.

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  You can rely on me, honey. You can come by any time you want.

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  I'll be around.

• 16:45Speaker 05

  You were right about the stars. Each one is a setting sun.

• 16:58Speaker 05

  Tower buildings shake. Voices escape, singing sad, sad songs tuned to chords strung down your cheeks. Bitter melodies, turning your orbit around.

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  Voices whine.

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  Skyscrapers are scraping together. Your voice is smoking. Last cigarettes, all you can get. Turning your orbit around.

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  Our love.

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  Our love.

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  Our love is all we have.

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  Our love.

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  Our love is all of God's money.

• 18:04Speaker 05

  Everyone is a burning sun.

• 18:12Speaker 05

  Tower buildings shake. Voices are scared, singing sad, sad songs tuned to chords strung down your cheeks. Bitter melodies, turning your orbit around.

• 18:31Speaker 05

  Voices whine.

• 18:35Speaker 05

  Skyscrapers are scraping together. Your voice is smoking. Last cigarettes, all you can get. Turning your orbit around. Last cigarettes are all you can get. Turning your orbit around.

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  Last cigarettes are all you can get. Turning your orbit around.

• 19:12Speaker 00

  Awesome.

• 19:13Speaker 05

  Yay.

• 19:14Speaker 00

  Thanks for letting me sing that with you. It's like my dream.

• 19:16Speaker 05

  My pleasure.

• 19:18Speaker 00

  Would you say that this is one of your most, like, people love this song the most? Not the most, but like one of the songs?

• 19:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think it's probably the most well-known song. And it's certainly, just judging by covers and stuff.

• 19:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:38Speaker 05

  It's one of the only songs I've written that has like multiple, multiple covers from around. I mean, there's like a Swedish version of it and, you know, a lot of, it just comes up every once in a while. It seems like once a year, somebody kind of covers it, which is really, really nice.

• 19:56Speaker 00

  It's a great song. Is it, is it the kind of, because you have such a huge catalog and... I feel like you also have very, very diehard fans. I mean, I know a lot of bands do, a lot of artists do, but I feel like yours are very specific.

• 20:14Speaker 05

  They're pretty hardcore.

• 20:15Speaker 00

  They're very hardcore and they're amazing. I mean, do you, do you feel like when you're writing a setlist, do you feel stressed about balancing stuff? I'm, I'm curious about that because I sometimes do and I have like way less catalog than you, but.

• 20:34Speaker 05

  You know, we just got, we toured a lot just recently and on that trip, kind of, because it was kind of a big outdoor bill. And the shows were a little bit shorter than a normal Wilco show. It felt like we really just didn't even worry about it. We kind of did roughly the same set every night and just swapped out a few songs. Because, I don't know, I just wanted, after two years, I kind of wanted everybody that was coming to not leave thinking they didn't hear. One of, I don't know, it's kind of like a, for whatever Wilco has as hits, it was kind of like a greatest hits show.

• 21:13Speaker 00

  Which is not how you usually do it, don't you switch it up a ton?

• 21:16Speaker 05

  Normally we do it where, here's how I balance it generally. I look, I actually call up the last time we played in that town.

• 21:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, I do that sometimes.

• 21:27Speaker 05

  And I look at the setlist and I try and make it at least half different from the last time we were in town. And, and you know, Jesus etc. is probably the most well-known Wilco song, but we've gotten away with playing lots of shows without playing.

• 21:42Speaker 00

  Without playing it, yeah, that's what I was wondering.

• 21:44Speaker 05

  And we don't really have that song that, that people, I mean, maybe a good, maybe a percentage of the audience walks away going, I can't believe they didn't play that. But for the most part, our fans don't, I don't know, that's one of the benefits of not having hits. It might be the only benefit of not having hits.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  No, I know what you mean, but like, I feel like your fans are also so hardcore. They probably, they're just like, maybe they're excited that you didn't play it too.

• 22:12Speaker 05

  You know, I got a really disturbing experience, yeah, maybe.

• 22:15Speaker 00

  You know, like, yeah, they went deep for me.

• 22:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, we, we started doing this request thing on our, on our website. And it was kind of disturbing because every, every night, every song gets one vote. So like every song in the whole catalog gets one vote every night. Unless somebody hacks it and like, sort of like asks for a super deep cut, like with 400 votes. You just know some, you know, computer wizard, like is coming to the show. But for the most part, I started, like when I started doing solo shows and I would look at the request list for the show, I'd just be like, what? Like, how do I know which ones to pick from this? Everybody just has, every song has one vote.

• 23:00Speaker 05

  So I started telling the audience that when they hear the song they came to hear, they should leave, so I know when to quit.

• 23:06Speaker 00

  That's funny, that's a good way to do it, except it didn't help.

• 23:10Speaker 05

  No, I would like play 400 songs.

• 23:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I mean, that's great that you have all those songs.

• 23:15Speaker 05

  I guess so.

• 23:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I would have been, would have been nice to have a hit, maybe. I think that that ship has probably sailed at this point.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  I mean, I think, I think you're doing just fine. Do you ever get asked that question about who you want to, whose career you'd want to emulate? I always thought that was kind of a lame question from journalists, you know? You get that question, right? Or have you like in the past?

• 23:37Speaker 05

  We used to get it a long time ago and, I mean, at that time, when we were starting out, I think, I would always say something like R E M. Or Randy Newman, or just somebody that's been around a long time and has had like the opportunity to make a lot of different records and a lot of.

• 23:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, but, but I mean, did you ever think of that answer until somebody would ask you that question?

• 24:03Speaker 05

  No, I wasn't ever, like, I never, I mean, I stopped modeling what we do on other people. By the time we made us an independent record and we're touring in a van.

• 24:14Speaker 00

  Oh, totally.

• 24:14Speaker 05

  That was like, oh my God, this is the coolest thing, this is the highest, I always like, I outlived my dreams, you know? That was like as cool as it could get. I never went to a lot of big rock shows when I was a kid. I went to small shows and punk rock shows and stuff. So the arena, playing bigger places was, I never could picture myself doing it because it wasn't something I had experienced a lot. And we haven't done a whole lot of it, but we definitely played way bigger venues and stages than I would have ever anticipated. And it was a growing experience, certainly had to kind of like learn how to do that as a challenge, which I'm glad. I was, it was a cool challenge to figure out how to make that feel right.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  Well, it's like you just keep rolling along and trying new things. So I was thinking about that question today when I was sort of preparing for this. And I always like, I don't know, like I always say like Dolly Parton or Joni Mitchell, but the truth is I never think of it outside of being asked that question. Today, I was thinking like you, like I, I love, you're exactly who I feel like if I had to model my career. After anyone, and I feel like at this point I've outgrown that question a little bit, but like.

• 25:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, for sure.

• 25:28Speaker 00

  I love how adventurous you are and you're always doing something different. And it's, it's like, picking songs for this was impossible because there's so many good ones.

• 25:41Speaker 05

  Well, thank you, I mean, I, I mean, I, well, you don't, I mean, I think everybody, I think the aspiration should be for everybody to have one that doesn't look exactly like anybody else's.

• 25:51Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 25:52Speaker 05

  And you totally have that.

• 25:53Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, I mean, I think that's why I always thought that was such a silly question. Because it's like, I don't really want to be like anybody else.

• 26:00Speaker 05

  You've kind of used, I, I feel like, you know, like you had this massive, massive success, like right out of the gate. And, and a lot of people, I think, I mean, I'm, I don't know, we've never really talked about it, so I don't know how disorienting any of that was. I'm assuming it was probably pretty disorienting, but.

• 26:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, a little.

• 26:23Speaker 05

  But, but I think that you took control of it really quickly. And I think that that, that, I always thought that was really admirable because you, you didn't, I felt like you, I just watching you from the outside, it felt like you didn't let it steamroll. You, you just decided to use that leverage to be able to do the things you want to do. And I don't think that occurs to a lot of people at like.

• 26:47Speaker 00

  I don't either, I think it was just dumb luck for me. It was just like, oh, cool, oh, I get to do whatever I want, I'm gonna do it. I wasn't like plotting anything because I think when you're young, you just keep rolling and that's, that's what you seem to do. And that's, that's exactly how I like to do things.

• 27:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, from the outside, it looks like being sort of self-possessed or something, you know, which is good, I think. You know, having a certain amount of confidence and self-possession. But I don't, internally, I don't feel that way at all. I just feel like I, I kind of just really am uncomfortable doing things I don't want to do.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  Exactly, you're just, you're just enjoying.

• 27:24Speaker 05

  I almost couldn't do it if, in a way that I feel like would be, you know, anyone would want to hear or respond to. But that doesn't, I don't know, but at the same time, I really love being outside of my comfort zone and finding out if I can do something, you know? Like the Mavis Staples stuff, it was just like, I, I'd never produced a record. So it was just like being asked to do that and it's like, I'll try, you know? Like I'd love to help because I love, I love her, I love, you know? And yeah, it was really nice seeing that stuff I had learned, making my own records and being in the studio for so long, actually applied to

• 28:03Speaker 05

  an environment or to the type of music that wasn't, you know, just square on the nose for what I do.

• 28:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, it's one of my favorite records too, is the Mavis record, that song too. I mean, the You Are Not Alone song is.

• 28:17Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 28:18Speaker 00

  I mean, it's one of my favorite songs for the last 20 years, but it's just such a great song, it's, it's gorgeous, yeah.

• 28:25Speaker 05

  I forgot, I played last night and I forgot to play it.

• 28:28Speaker 00

  You were gonna play it?

• 28:29Speaker 05

  And I was gonna play it at the end, but it felt a little too, like I would, I don't know, like I would be milking the moment of, of people being out of their houses for the first time or something. It like, I thought about singing and I was like, oh, that's gonna, I don't know. I got really self-conscious about it on stage.

• 28:46Speaker 00

  That's funny, I mean, do you get self-conscious on stage?

• 28:50Speaker 05

  It feels emotional every time I sing it.

• 28:51Speaker 00

  It's a very emotional song, it's incredibly emotional, that's what's so moving about it. And it's very universal, you know, her singing it is universal, but some people might relate to it one way. You singing it, people might relate to it another way.

• 29:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, there'd already been a lot of stuff last night, I mean, just the whole, you know? It really felt like it was the first time in a crowd like that for a lot of people. And it's certainly the first time I've done a solo show in a, in a crowded room. And, and so there were a lot of moments throughout the show that already felt like that emotional itch had been scratched or something.

• 29:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, you didn't want to send them home bawling.

• 29:31Speaker 05

  That's usually my goal, like leave them wanting less and, and depressed. Are you full, yeah, is everybody having a good time? Yeah, we'll see what we can do about that.

• 29:44Speaker 00

  It's amazing, I do have a little FOMO because I haven't gone to a show and haven't played a show yet since, since everything, so.

• 29:51Speaker 05

  At, at the beginning of the summer, before we went out, you know, it felt like, oh, this is gonna be amazing. And by the time we got out there, of course, the Delta variant and all the different things were happening with the, you know, other people canceling tours and stuff. So it was a little confusing, but we managed to keep, keep ourselves healthy and the crew healthy. And we had like 40 people, you know, with all the different bands in a bubble and we managed to do it.

• 30:19Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 30:20Speaker 05

  Only canceled one show because of weather and we had two hurricanes on that.

• 30:26Speaker 00

  Oh gosh, yeah.

• 30:27Speaker 05

  On that trip, or we're like, we're in the line of two hurricanes.

• 30:31Speaker 00

  That's wild.

• 30:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:34Speaker 00

  It must have been nice though.

• 30:36Speaker 05

  It was, it was really nice.

• 30:38Speaker 00

  Like very special.

• 30:39Speaker 05

  People seem, yeah, I mean, it's a huge thing in people's lives and it's a really.

• 30:44Speaker 00

  Especially yours.

• 30:46Speaker 05

  For our, but, but just getting, getting to be a part of that equation for someone looking out into an audience and seeing the, like this joy and relief. And a sense of, I don't know, just being a part of a communal experience, which for a lot of people that don't go to church a lot and.

• 31:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 31:07Speaker 05

  Like sports or whatever.

• 31:09Speaker 00

  It's about connecting.

• 31:09Speaker 05

  That's like kind of the only place you get that.

• 31:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's interesting because, yeah, a lot of people get it other places.

• 31:18Speaker 00

  Was that the longest that you've not been on the road as an adult during the pandemic?

• 31:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:26Speaker 00

  Because you're a road dog. I mean, you know.

• 31:28Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, I have been touring.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  You guys are always on the road.

• 31:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think I've been playing shows and doing, you know, getting in a van since I was about, you know, 18 or 19 years old. And for sure, in my adult life, that was the only time I've ever spent 18 months at home.

• 31:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:46Speaker 05

  And that was, uh, it was great. I mean, honestly, that part of it was really kind of uplifting because my wife and my kids and I were all under one roof and we were very fortunate to have a house that's big enough to kind of have, not be on top of each other, which really sympathize with people that were in living situations where it wasn't easy to get away from, you know, your family members.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  Everyone had their own unique experience.

• 32:19Speaker 05

  Yeah. But for us, it was like, oh, wow, we, you know, really love each other. We really, I mean, not just love each other, but like to spend time together. And for my wife and I, honestly, that was the, you know, who knew?

• 32:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's pretty great.

• 32:36Speaker 05

  Because, you know, I think we've always kind of attributed the success of our relationship to being able to be apart, you know, and that we've remained sort of connected and strong, even though I'm gone a lot. So.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  It was a test, then.

• 32:53Speaker 05

  If she was here right now, she'd be rolling her eyes and saying that she wanted to pack, she wanted to pack my bags many times. And that's always been the joke before the pandemic is that if I'm home for too long, I wake up and my bags are packed by the front door because she, she likes it when I'm out doing what I do and maybe she senses that I need to do it.

• 33:13Speaker 00

  That makes sense. I mean, that all makes sense, but it's, I'm glad you guys passed the test.

• 33:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:26Speaker 00

  Can we do "Save It For Me"?

• 33:28Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 33:28Speaker 00

  This is from the album we put out, like in 2019, kind of, right?

• 33:35Speaker 05

  No, it came out during the pandemic.

• 33:37Speaker 00

  It came out during, was it written during the pandemic then? Okay, so this is the perfect segue. I didn't even mean to do it, I'm just.

• 33:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:45Speaker 00

  So this is one of those songs that came out of that?

• 33:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:53Speaker 05

  When I came home from the pandemic, from our, we were on tour when, when everything got shut down and so we got home and a few days, really only a few days in, I started thinking, I just try and write, as an exercise, I wanted to write country songs like I thought the way a country song would sound if it was gonna, you know, you're trying to pitch it to somebody to be played on a jukebox in like the early 60s. And just as, you know, just as a genre exercise or something, like I wonder if I can just write a straight country song. And I wrote a few songs like that and I started sharing them with my, my friend George Saunders

• 34:35Speaker 05

  and, and Nick Offerman, who we have, we kind of have a thread, a text thread.

• 34:40Speaker 00

  Oh, the actor?

• 34:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:41Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 34:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, we're just like, it's just this long going text thread. And I was just like, hey, I'm gonna send you guys a song a day just to see if I can do this.

• 34:53Speaker 00

  You're really good at that, by the way, the self-discipline thing.

• 34:57Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 34:58Speaker 00

  I mean, I read your How to Write One Song book and I loved it.

• 35:01Speaker 05

  Oh, thank you.

• 35:01Speaker 00

  Because I don't really have any of that.

• 35:04Speaker 05

  I just, I, yeah, I like, I like just seeing if you can do it. And, and the only, and one of the reasons I can do it is because I like, you have to really just accept whatever comes out.

• 35:18Speaker 00

  But that's the best advice you can give anybody trying to write a song.

• 35:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 35:23Speaker 00

  Because everybody wants to just shut it down when it's cheesy or, or if you don't like it.

• 35:28Speaker 05

  Right, yeah, but I don't think, I always think that that's what writer's block is. It's not so much you can't write anything, you just don't like what you're writing.

• 35:35Speaker 00

  You're just not letting yourself go.

• 35:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, so it was really satisfying and it was really fun. And then over time, like, like, oh, really, within like a week and a half or so, I had enough songs for a record and they were starting to become less and less of that genre exercise. They were starting to have more of a unique flavor, you know, or a unique feeling to the moment.

• 36:01Speaker 00

  Like it started taking shape as its own, as the record.

• 36:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it became the record "Love Is The King." And, you know, so it was Spencer and I primarily were laying down all of the tracks at the studio because it was in our bubble. And then this is really the record where Sammy started taking a much more active interest in being a part of it. And so he sings all the harmonies on the record.

• 36:25Speaker 00

  Ah, so this is him on harmonies on this song? Okay, I didn't realize that.

• 36:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:29Speaker 00

  He's got a beautiful voice.

• 36:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, thank you.

• 36:31Speaker 00

  And I love his harmonies because they're, they're different, you know? They're so cool.

• 36:36Speaker 05

  So, yeah, I think that this is, this is the first song, I think, that we had him come in and sing harmony on.

• 36:41Speaker 00

  That's so sweet. It's funny, you were writing country songs. To me, this sounds like an old jazz standard also. But I feel like there's a lot of overlap there.

• 36:48Speaker 05

  There is, for sure.

• 36:57Speaker 05

  Save it for me. When the world falls apart, I can say with certainty.

• 37:12Speaker 05

  There's a reason.

• 37:17Speaker 05

  A light left on in an empty room. It's how a love can be.

• 37:26Speaker 05

  A rainbow would in a mouth of clouds. Darkened days, who needs you now?

• 37:39Speaker 05

  A rainbow would in a mouth of clouds. Darkened days, who needs me now?

• 37:55Speaker 05

  Save it for me. When the world falls apart, I can say with certainty.

• 38:10Speaker 05

  There's a reason. There's a pie left out that you can't consume. So sweet, you cannot eat.

• 38:51Speaker 05

  There's a reason no one will call today.

• 38:59Speaker 05

  People you lean on don't always know what to say.

• 39:11Speaker 05

  Save it for me. When the world falls apart, I can say with certainty.

• 39:25Speaker 05

  There's a reason. A light left on in an empty room. It's how a love can be. It's all a love can be.

• 39:43Speaker 05

  It's all a love can be.

• 39:48Speaker 05

  It's all love can be.

• 40:07Speaker 00

  That's beautiful. If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called "Before The Moment," a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before

• 40:51Speaker 00

  the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to "Before The Moment," a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Lunchbox from the Bobby Bones Show. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability and it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan.

• 41:17Speaker 04

  With the latest features in tech or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or an adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops while Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in. Get a deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 41:41Speaker 05

  Beautiful. Thank you.

• 41:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, I loved it. I had this like idea of trying to do it ragtime, but it's definitely in the wrong key for that.

• 41:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 41:51Speaker 05

  You should have told me I would do it in a different key.

• 41:53Speaker 00

  No, I liked what we did. It was great. I just wanted to sing on it mostly and just tinkle a little piano.

• 41:59Speaker 05

  Well, half step up would have been ragtime key, right? G with a big.

• 42:03Speaker 00

  The F. Save it for me.

• 42:09Speaker 00

  Me.

• 42:13Speaker 00

  When the world falls apart, could say we're certain. But that's what I was hearing like is that's why I was hearing it kind of jazzy, right?

• 42:25Speaker 05

  You have to make, I have to make that track. I want to hear it.

• 42:28Speaker 00

  It'd be fun. I'll fiddle with it. I'll do it in a different key. That's a little low, but I love that song. It's beautiful. Also, I really have avoided using jazzy as a, as a descriptive word my whole life, and I don't know why I just did that.

• 42:44Speaker 00

  But I just want to put that out there. I don't usually.

• 42:46Speaker 05

  I was.

• 42:47Speaker 00

  Use it.

• 42:48Speaker 05

  I was impressed. I was like, wow, I can write jazz now.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  Awesome. That was fun.

• 42:57Speaker 05

  With myself.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  I love that you made that record with Spencer and Sammy like that during the pandemic. That's great.

• 43:05Speaker 05

  It was, yeah, I wrote the book and I, and I, around the same time. So a lot of the kind of exercises I'm trying to describe in the book I was using at the same time making the record or, you know, it was fresh in my mind from kind of writing really quickly.

• 43:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's pretty great. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the book and try to do that again. Like try to, I'll just send you stuff.

• 43:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, let me, let me hear it.

• 43:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, that'd be fun.

• 43:33Speaker 05

  It's good to let somebody hear it because, I mean, if you have to find the right person, but you know, when, when somebody else receives it in the same spirit that it's, it's created, it's really, the stakes are really low, but really rewarding, you know, it's like, it's like, like playing it for your mom or something or like.

• 43:59Speaker 00

  Well, that's interesting because I was listening to your book, I was listening to your book on tape and I was really struck by that, that scene of you playing her song, your mom's songs in the kitchen when you first started writing them.

• 44:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:14Speaker 00

  And I think that earnestness of songwriting is what helps you be so fearless with it and like just, yeah, what you're saying is basically the key to unlocking it and it makes a lot of sense.

• 44:27Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, you got somebody that's, I mean, I think ultimately you're wanting to reach somebody that is open to loving you. It's hard to reach people who are not open to making, having a connection.

• 44:43Speaker 00

  Right. Oh, my God.

• 44:44Speaker 05

  And but people I think spend a lot of time worried about those people, worried about the people that are difficult to, or like, are not really coming at it like they don't really need it from you. They're, it's not for them or they have other things that really means a lot to them and they're not, I don't know, they're just not, they don't need another friend.

• 45:05Speaker 00

  I think that's, that's a great, yeah. That's an interesting thing to think about.

• 45:10Speaker 05

  So, so it's like, if you know that that's there, you still have a vulnerability because I don't know if you ever quite shake that feeling, especially if you're saying something that's emotionally resonant within yourself, it feels a little electrifying almost like, like electrocuting.

• 45:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, either way.

• 45:40Speaker 05

  To feel like, just like, you know, oh, I shouldn't be saying this. I'm not sure how I feel about this being out in, in, in the air, you know?

• 45:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:52Speaker 05

  And that's still there, even with somebody that loves you a whole lot, you know?

• 45:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, it can still hurt you.

• 45:59Speaker 05

  But I always like, I just like think that I don't really spend a lot of time picturing an audience, but it took me a long time to figure out that I shouldn't picture an audience that isn't open to it. Like, what's the point?

• 46:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's true. I mean, it took me a long time to realize this. I don't know why, maybe because my first record was so successful and I got a little like weird, you know?

• 46:21Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 46:21Speaker 00

  And I would play shows and I would like be kind of upset sometimes like, well, they, they weren't as into it as they could have been. And I don't know. And I remember somebody saying to me once, like, everyone here bought a ticket to come see you. They're on your side. They already like you.

• 46:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:38Speaker 00

  For some reason, I thought I had to win them over.

• 46:40Speaker 05

  Right.

• 46:41Speaker 00

  And that's like a weird performer thing that, that sometimes I think people get in their head.

• 46:46Speaker 05

  For sure.

• 46:47Speaker 00

  And especially when you're young.

• 46:49Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, and you start out that way for a lot of people. It's just like, that's your whole goal is to win over an audience and then you never really quite let go of it.

• 46:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're not always there to see you in the beginning. They're maybe there to see someone else.

• 47:02Speaker 05

  Which if I guess if I had to pick a side of which, you know, default position to come into a show, I'd probably still want most performers to feel like they, they need to put an effort in to win you over.

• 47:14Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. But there's a difference between not putting an effort in and not feeling defensive immediately about like, or like, you know, scared, too scared.

• 47:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, like just assuming the audience is going to be withholding.

• 47:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:28Speaker 05

  Of their affection or something.

• 47:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's just a weird head trip that I went through in the beginning.

• 47:33Speaker 05

  The thing that's crazy and, you know, to me is how, how adept at picking out people that aren't having a good time.

• 47:43Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 47:43Speaker 05

  We are. And everybody that's ever, I've ever talked to that's been on stage has like a, just a, like, almost like an animal instinct for the guy that's yawning or looking at his phone or something.

• 47:55Speaker 00

  The yawning gets me because I also like, in the beginning, I got called Snora in the press, which my mom, for some reason, thought was hilarious and like always jokes around about it, but it does hurt a little bit.

• 48:05Speaker 05

  Oh, for sure.

• 48:06Speaker 00

  So like the yawning always gets me.

• 48:08Speaker 05

  For sure.

• 48:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:09Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah, they can be in the middle of like 50 people like dancing.

• 48:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 48:17Speaker 05

  And you're like, what's wrong with that guy? I'm giving all this mental energy to this person that's like, the last person I should be thinking about.

• 48:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, as soon as I stopped thinking of it that way, it was so much more fun.

• 48:29Speaker 05

  The world is like that, though. We always like seem to be most disoriented and distracted by the, the, I don't know, the naysayers and the negative energy.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  And now we're programmed to be more like that every day because of what, you know, the way the news is and everything.

• 48:46Speaker 05

  Outrage economy.

• 48:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's all just outrageous.

• 48:49Speaker 05

  I was thinking about how, you know, you could have a bunch of people in a room having a great time and one really, really sour, negative person can walk in the room and completely change that room.

• 49:02Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 49:02Speaker 05

  But it doesn't work the other way. You could have a group of like people.

• 49:07Speaker 00

  Are you sure?

• 49:08Speaker 05

  I mean.

• 49:09Speaker 00

  Oh, if there's a group of negative people is what you mean.

• 49:11Speaker 05

  Yeah. And, and like one really happy person comes in and tries to make.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  It just makes them all matter.

• 49:17Speaker 05

  Yeah. I guess there are, there, well, that's a real gift. That's somebody like Mavis Staples.

• 49:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, she can brighten a room.

• 49:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, she's like, but yeah, it's, it generally, I think it's much more energy expended to get it to go the other direction.

• 49:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's true. Love is the king. I mean, it's, you said it.

• 49:37Speaker 05

  Available everywhere.

• 49:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:41Speaker 00

  That's great. If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before

• 50:25Speaker 00

  the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 50:37Speaker 06

  Hey, this is Mario Lopez from All Mario Lopez Daily Podcast. Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel drive Camry Corolla Cross or a Corolla sedan with the latest features in tech or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops while Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in. So get a great deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com.

• 51:10Speaker 05

  For deals and details, Toyota, let's go places.

• 51:14Speaker 00

  I remember when I came to the loft to write songs and just play with you. I was just like so, I was so excited. I don't know why, but I've always felt, even though I'm a fan, I feel like over the years, seeing you around and you were so cool with Puss in Boots. I don't know, we just had fun. The brief times we saw you, I just thought we would get along. And I felt very at ease with you playing music and writing songs. And it was weird because I really was surprised that I wasn't more withholding of my own ideas because I do think of you as a, you know, you're a way more accomplished songwriter than I am. But it was just so fun and I felt that energy from you.

• 51:57Speaker 00

  And I, I feel like it worked really well.

• 52:00Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 52:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:02Speaker 05

  No, I mean, I feel like we've always had like a real strong friend chemistry.

• 52:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, me too.

• 52:12Speaker 05

  Even from the first time I told you you got the lyrics wrong.

• 52:15Speaker 00

  Oh, God.

• 52:16Speaker 05

  You took it with a lot of.

• 52:18Speaker 00

  Oh, I was.

• 52:19Speaker 05

  Like, it was fun.

• 52:20Speaker 00

  I thought it was hilarious, but also a little bit horrified. But I mean, I was, I mean, it was great. I love playing music with you, so yeah, it was so fun.

• 52:30Speaker 05

  I remember the first time we met at the Jules Holland thing.

• 52:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:34Speaker 05

  I was, we were playing "I'm the Man Who Loves You", and I have like a crazy loud fuzzed out guitar solo. And I felt, I was scared I was gonna hurt your ears because they had seated you directly at like a little table directly in front of us.

• 52:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:51Speaker 05

  And I think my amp was aimed straight at your head. I'm like, oh, my God, I just can't believe I'm gonna have to do this.

• 52:59Speaker 00

  You're gonna, you're gonna make me go down on my first record.

• 53:09Speaker 00

  Which one do you want to do? Do you want to do "I'm Alive"?

• 53:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:13Speaker 00

  Or, okay.

• 53:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, is that okay?

• 53:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, it's great. I just didn't know which one. Let me just grab my, yay, okay.

• 53:23Speaker 00

  It's funny because I put this album out during the pandemic. So I never got to play with this, with a band.

• 53:30Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  And it's actually, the last time I saw you was like the week before lockdown, when we did the video for this.

• 53:37Speaker 05

  Right.

• 53:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, I can't, that was like probably the last time I flew.

• 53:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:42Speaker 05

  Before I just came here.

• 53:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:46Speaker 05

  Possible, yeah, I think, I think it is.

• 53:48Speaker 00

  It is. So I've been doing all these like solo piano versions of this song, which I never thought I'd do, but it's great.

• 53:53Speaker 05

  I'll just hang on for dear life.

• 53:55Speaker 00

  No, no, it's great.

• 58:38Speaker 00

  Awesome.

• 58:39Speaker 05

  That was great.

• 58:40Speaker 00

  I remember I tried to play drums on this, but Spencer was so much better. I was like, I'm gonna play drums, but no. I loved playing with you and Spencer together. It was so fun.

• 58:49Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, it's, me too. We love playing with you, obviously. It was so, such an incredible, fun time to get to do that. But for me, you know, I love playing with Wilco. I love playing with, you know, lots of musicians. I've been lucky to play with a lot of great musicians. But yeah, there's really nothing like playing with your own DNA or something.

• 59:15Speaker 00

  Well, that's what they say, like the Everly Brothers hookup. That was just, there was just something about that, right?

• 59:21Speaker 05

  It's crazy how, I mean, I, so many tracks on "Love is the King" are not to a click, just me playing acoustic guitar and him coming in later and putting drums on it. And, and people don't do that. It's like just, it's not that common, I don't think, for people to do that.

• 59:42Speaker 00

  It's not easy.

• 59:43Speaker 05

  It's really hard.

• 59:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:45Speaker 05

  But he never has any problem. He like understands where I, you know, I don't have terrible timing, but I'm not perfect.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  Well, you have your own unique sense of time.

• 59:54Speaker 05

  Right. So he just, he just has been hearing that his whole life or something. So he just like kind of dips and ebbs and flows where, where it feels right. And it's really, really kind of, I don't know, interesting. I think I would love to know why it works so well, but at the same time, I don't really need to know.

• 1:00:14Speaker 00

  Well, that's the beauty of it. It's not, it's not a technical thing that you can know. It's just, it's just, it's called chemistry.

• 1:00:22Speaker 05

  And then, yeah, it's beautiful. And, but, but it's, it's the thing I guess I'm trying to express is like when we play together, it's obviously there and it's like, it's, it's really effortless and, and fun. And we, you know, just really hear each other super clear, clearly. But the thing that I always think is amazing is that it still sounds that way when we do it separately.

• 1:00:46Speaker 00

  I know, I know. That's what I'm saying. That's exactly what happened on this song. It's like, I was trying to play drums for some reason, but then he came in after and overdubbed the drums, but we did not do it to a click. And so I was like, oh, God, is he gonna be able to? And it was so perfect. It's crazy.

• 1:01:04Speaker 05

  We did that, the Pop Staples record that Spencer and I completed with Mavis's Blessing. She kind of brought these recordings in that he had worked on before he died. And they were never finished to anyone's satisfaction. And, and so we did, like Spencer and I as a rhythm section, played along with just Pop's voice and his guitar.

• 1:01:28Speaker 00

  That's amazing.

• 1:01:29Speaker 05

  And those weren't to a click or anything either. So it was just like, just kind of trying to get in the headspace of we're playing in the room and closing our eyes and playing with Pops. And it was really kind of.

• 1:01:40Speaker 00

  That's heavy.

• 1:01:41Speaker 05

  It was, yeah, it was, yeah, I had a lot of like just crazy eerie feelings of him, his presence or something. This is, it really, he really is present. His voice is, I mean, the voice is a huge part of who a person is, you know? Just having it in your headphones, listening and listening so intently to try and follow. That was a really beautiful experience. But yeah, it was, you know, he was able to do that too, which was really exciting.

• 1:02:17Speaker 00

  If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today.

• 1:03:02Speaker 00

  Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:03:11Speaker 06

  Hey, what's up? This is Kelvin Washington from The I Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability, and it starts with a great deal on off-road-ready Tacoma or a half-ton Tundra. Two of Toyota's longest-lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. Built on a reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 1:05:35Speaker 05

  If I had a mountain,

• 1:05:42Speaker 05

  I'd try to fold it over.

• 1:05:49Speaker 05

  And if I had a boat,

• 1:05:56Speaker 05

  I'd probably roll over.

• 1:06:03Speaker 05

  But I'd leave it on the shore.

• 1:06:10Speaker 05

  I'd leave it for somebody.

• 1:06:17Speaker 05

  Surely there's somebody

• 1:06:24Speaker 05

  who needs it more than me.

• 1:06:30Speaker 05

  I am so

• 1:06:34Speaker 05

  out of tune

• 1:06:38Speaker 05

  with you.

• 1:06:43Speaker 05

  I am so out of tune

• 1:06:49Speaker 05

  with you.

• 1:08:02Speaker 05

  For all the leaves we burn,

• 1:08:10Speaker 05

  in autumn fires and then return.

• 1:08:17Speaker 05

  For all the fires we burn,

• 1:08:24Speaker 05

  all will return.

• 1:08:31Speaker 05

  Music is my savior.

• 1:08:37Speaker 05

  I was maimed by rock and roll.

• 1:08:44Speaker 05

  I was maimed by rock and roll.

• 1:08:52Speaker 05

  I was tamed by rock and roll.

• 1:08:58Speaker 05

  I got my name from rock and roll.

• 1:09:50Speaker 00

  I love that song. It's very emotional.

• 1:09:53Speaker 00

  There's that chord, though, that I have no idea what it is. The last one, the last one in that.

• 1:10:00Speaker 05

  Oh, this?

• 1:10:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:04Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 1:10:05Speaker 05

  Sorry.

• 1:10:05Speaker 00

  No, I'm sorry.

• 1:10:06Speaker 05

  That's why I was looking at you. You want to go for that part again?

• 1:10:08Speaker 00

  I wasn't sure what was happening, but I just tried to ghost that one, that chord a little bit, but.

• 1:10:13Speaker 05

  Me, too.

• 1:10:16Speaker 05

  I didn't have a pick. I forgot to put a pick up, so I was just kind of like trying to. But it was good. I liked it. I liked it. I liked that version.

• 1:10:24Speaker 00

  I love that song. It's.

• 1:10:27Speaker 05

  It probably doesn't need the dissonance in this type of version, but you can edit it out if you need to.

• 1:10:33Speaker 00

  I like it. No, I love that part. It confused me at first because I was like, what are those choruses? I don't understand it. And then I'm used to it. I love it. I love that part. It's just part of the song.

• 1:10:46Speaker 05

  That song was improvised. That version on the record is improvised in the studio. And I had had some of the lyrics and I, this part.

• 1:11:00Speaker 05

  And I had the chorus in this. But there was no middle section or anything. And so it was basically kind of got through everything I had. And the band was still playing, so I just started.

• 1:11:17Speaker 05

  I kind of improvised like a dissonant section. Everybody kind of went with it. It was amazing. And then all of the lyrics from that point on, like the, "For all the leaves we burn, in autumn fires and then return," that's all improvised.

• 1:11:32Speaker 00

  And the music is my savior.

• 1:11:34Speaker 05

  And the music is my savior.

• 1:11:35Speaker 00

  It's just like, it's very emotional when I was listening to it. It's pretty great.

• 1:11:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was like.

• 1:11:41Speaker 00

  It's very true.

• 1:11:42Speaker 05

  It happens sometimes. It happens like that sometimes. And yeah, you feel really, really lucky to be in a part of it, you know?

• 1:11:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's great. I love, I love it when it happens.

• 1:11:56Speaker 05

  Well, you know, I think it happens a lot more than people think it does.

• 1:12:05Speaker 05

  What just doesn't happen is making it happen.

• 1:12:09Speaker 00

  No, you can't like.

• 1:12:10Speaker 05

  But you have to put yourself in the way of it. It's sort of the same thing in the book, like writing songs. You don't, they don't happen if you don't pick up the guitar and it doesn't happen, you don't write something unless you pick up the pencil or something like that. And something like this doesn't happen unless you convene.

• 1:12:29Speaker 00

  Exactly. Unless you get together.

• 1:12:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, and make, make an effort to be in the way of something beautiful potentially happening.

• 1:12:40Speaker 00

  That's the best. I mean, I remember I used to always come to the studio with songs to record either my own or covers, but I never wrote in the studio until maybe 2009, I want to say, when I made a record with Danger Mouse, and that's how he wanted to do it. I was like, well, I've never done that before. And it was, it opened up my whole world. And that's why I felt confident enough to come and do that with you, you know? Because I had just never thought to do that before.

• 1:13:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:13:10Speaker 00

  And it's the best.

• 1:13:11Speaker 05

  It's really great, you know? It's like, it's just like, it's just an act of discovery each day. And they're like, just like, like, the question isn't, what do I want to say? It's like, how do I find out what I want to say?

• 1:13:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, by talking. Yeah, that's true. I love that. Well, do you have time for one more?

• 1:13:32Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 1:13:32Speaker 00

  And then we can, you can go to your show.

• 1:13:41Speaker 05

  Which one is this?

• 1:13:42Speaker 00

  You want to do a muzzle of bees? Would that be okay?

• 1:13:44Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 1:13:56Speaker 05

  There's a random painted highway and a muzzle of bees.

• 1:14:06Speaker 05

  My seeds have come unstitched from climbing a tree.

• 1:14:21Speaker 05

  When dogs laugh and say they're barking, I don't think they're mean.

• 1:14:31Speaker 05

  Some people get so frightened, the fences in between.

• 1:14:41Speaker 05

  The sun gets passed from tree to tree silently and back to me.

• 1:14:55Speaker 05

  With a breeze blown through, pushed up against the sea.

• 1:15:03Speaker 05

  Finally back to me.

• 1:15:16Speaker 05

  I'm assuming you got my message on your machine.

• 1:15:27Speaker 05

  I'm assuming you love me and you know what that means.

• 1:16:14Speaker 05

  The sun gets passed from sea to sea silently and back to me.

• 1:16:28Speaker 05

  With a breeze blown through, pushed up above the leaves.

• 1:16:38Speaker 05

  With a breeze blown through my head, upon your knees. Half of it's you and half is me.

• 1:16:55Speaker 05

  Half of it's you and half is me.

• 1:17:54Speaker 05

  That's not an easy song to just whip out.

• 1:17:57Speaker 00

  I know. Thanks for playing with me.

• 1:18:01Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 1:18:01Speaker 00

  It was great to see you and play.

• 1:18:03Speaker 05

  Such a great, great thrill to be asked to do this, anything with you. I really, well, love you.

• 1:18:10Speaker 00

  I love you. Love is the king. It is, though, and I feel it. And I'm glad we get to do it.

• 1:18:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:18:26Speaker 00

  Hey, thanks for listening. God, I had so much fun.

• 1:18:29Speaker 07

  That was so great.

• 1:18:30Speaker 00

  It was so fun.

• 1:18:31Speaker 07

  You just lock into each other.

• 1:18:33Speaker 00

  Well, I picked songs for this that I knew, most of them I knew really well. I mean, I've known that last song we did for 20 years and I've loved it. So, once I figured out what cue was in, it was pretty, you know, it was like inside me already. I just didn't know quite what it was.

• 1:18:51Speaker 07

  It just needed to be released.

• 1:18:53Speaker 00

  I adore Jeff and thanks to Jeff for making it happen. Save it for me.

• 1:19:03Speaker 00

  When the world falls apart, I can say with certainty.

• 1:19:12Speaker 00

  There's a reason. A light left on in an empty room is how love can be.

• 1:19:27Speaker 00

  A rainbow world in a mouth of clouds. Darkened days, who needs you now?

• 1:19:40Speaker 00

  A rainbow world in a mouth of clouds. Darkened days, who needs me now?

• 1:19:53Speaker 00

  Save it for me.

• 1:19:58Speaker 00

  When the world falls apart, I can say with certainty.

• 1:20:07Speaker 00

  There's a reason. A pie left out that you can't consume, so sweet you cannot eat.

• 1:20:23Speaker 00

  There's a reason no one will call today. This show was produced by me and Sarah Oda. Mixing engineer was Jamie Landry. Recording engineer was Matt Marinelli. And additional engineering by Greg Tobler. Artwork by Eliza Fry. Photography by Shirvan Linaz. Additional recording by Matt Marinelli. Audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Executive producers Erin Wong Kaufman and Jordan Runtog. Marketing lead, Alison Cantor-Graeber. This is Shirley Strawberry from the Steve Harvey Morning Show. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability.

• 1:21:05Speaker 00

  And it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan with the latest features and tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in, get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places. If you love music and great artist interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Niall Rogers. This new series follows Niall as he travels across the country talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers.

• 1:21:50Speaker 00

  From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed. And this podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:22:11Speaker 06

  Small businesses are the pulse of every community. They bring people together, create opportunities, and drive growth. That's why Chase for Business helps small business owners like you by offering personalized guidance and digital tools that can help your business grow. With our guidance and your determination, you can take your business farther and help build a brighter future for your community. Learn more at chase.com/business. Chase for Business, make more of what's yours. The Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JP Morgan Chase Bank, N.A., member FDIC. Copyright 2026 JP Morgan Chase & Company.

• 1:22:45Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast.

• 1:22:48Speaker 00

  Guaranteed Human.