Marriage, Divorce, and Finding Love(r) Again with Leigh Koechner

This week, Tony and Tobie are joined by divorce coach Leigh Koechner, who knows a thing or two about love, marriage, and starting over. Leigh opens up about meeting her ex-husband, falling in love, and ultimately falling apart. She shares why sometimes ending a marriage is the bravest thing you can do for yourself and your family, the lessons she learned along the way, and how her own journey inspired her to help other women navigate divorce. Plus, Leigh gives us an update on her love life and spills all about her new lover! See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Okay, hear me out. Tuesdays are the new Fridays. And no, I'm not talking about going out. I'm talking about T-Mobile Tuesdays. Porque who doesn't love una buena sorpresa? And now, T-Mobile Tuesdays are available en español. Just set your phone to Spanish and that's it. Bien fácil. Honestly, being a T-Mobile member keeps getting better. I get America's best network, plus streaming benefits, travel perks, weekly surprises with T-Mobile Tuesdays, and so much more. And you know, I'm always here for getting more out of the things I already love. So if you're looking for more reasons to switch to T-Mobile, there are plenty. Encuentra las tuyas. Switch now at tmobile.com/conectate. Qualifying plan required. Best mobile network in the U.S. based on analysis by Ookla

• 0:42Speaker 00

  of Speedtest Intelligence Data, one age 2026.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Monopoly at McDonald's.

• 0:49Speaker 02

  And wait, Monopoly is back? Obviously, we're playing.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  I'm in, but first you gotta register for the game in the McDonald's app and make sure you're opted into rewards.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  Okay, then what?

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Then comes the fun part. You peel game pieces on the eligible McDonald's items while supplies last.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  Yes, that's Big Mac, large fries, ten piece chicken McNuggets, hash brown, McMuffins, basically the classics.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  Millions of prizes this year. Free McDonald's food, major cash prizes.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  Hold up cash?

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Cash dinero.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  And even trips to iconic McDonald's locations, like the airplane McDonald's in New Zealand.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  Un McDonald's en un avión? Okay, say more.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  Nada más. Just peel, then play in the app.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Despega y juega en el app. Get your bag today at McDonald's.

• 1:29Speaker 02

  No purchase necessary. Fifty U.S. and D.C. H18 plus. See play at mc.com for rules and play at mc.com/amoe for info on playing without purchase by mail by November 2nd. Chance card game ends November 8th. Game ends November 22nd, 2026. See rules for prize details. Monopoly is a registered trademark of Hasbro.

• 1:52Speaker 03

  Coca-Cola. For the big, for the small, the short, and the tall. Peacemakers, risk takers. For the optimists, pessimists. For long distance love. For introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola. For everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  What's up, everyone? I'm Angel.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  I'm Diego.

• 2:24Speaker 04

  I'm Jason.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  And we're Agustopapa.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  Okay, be real. What era are we in? We got motion, podcast up, life's moving?

• 2:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, but the cars, though? Bruh, be serious.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  Every life update needs new wheels. Estamos en otra etapa, la troca también. Low key, more luxury. Or maybe a hybrid. Más millas, menos impacto.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  I'm down for the upgrade.

• 2:44Speaker 04

  Cars.com filter everything. Price, style, mileage, over 2 million new and used cars, real reviews, clear ratings. You know it's a good move.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  Punto. Start your search with cars.com. Where to next?

• 2:57Speaker 05

  This is Iris Palmer from Against All Odds with Iris Palmer. You know that feeling when your skin needs a tall drink of water? That's when you reach for Clinique Moisture Surge 100 Hour Moisturizer and let your skin soak it up. It absorbs instantly and gives you 100 hours of hydration for that plump, healthy-looking glow. And the texture? Lightweight, refreshing, oil-free gel cream that feels so good going on, never heavy or weighted down. Plus, it's allergy-tested, fragrance-free, and safe for sensitive skin. Check, check, and super check. Try Clinique Moisture Surge 100 Hour today at Clinique.com. Feels like Moisture Surge.

• 3:35Speaker 06

  And I'm grateful that God rewarded me with my lover because he's such a good man. And he sees me, and he knows just how to handle me in all kinds of ways. What? Isn't there a fan in here?

• 3:48Speaker 07

  I love it.

• 3:49Speaker 06

  I am getting a hot flash now.

• 3:54Speaker 07

  Well, welcome back, everybody, to No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez. I love talking about myself in the third person.

• 4:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, get used to it.

• 4:02Speaker 07

  It's weird.

• 4:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, it does a lot.

• 4:03Speaker 07

  We just had a fabulous guest on named Lee Kekner. She has a, well, she used to have a podcast called Messy and Perfect Life with Lee. And she's recently sort of pivoted and started talking about divorce and helping women get through divorce and sort of find themselves and heal from like such a traumatic sort of life change. Especially, well, she was married for 22 years, but she's helping women sort of like get their grooves back. And I felt very inspired after having the conversation that we had because, well, for a lot of reasons.

• 4:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, she let it all out there, too. I was a little surprised.

• 4:41Speaker 07

  She was so raw and open.

• 4:43Speaker 04

  You're telling all that type of stuff, okay. It's very interesting. But yeah, she's inspiring. I think people are gonna get a lot of really good advice out of this.

• 4:52Speaker 07

  Absolutely.

• 4:53Speaker 04

  She's a kind of like no bullshit. Like, it's what you see is what you get. And what did she say? Like, I'm not gonna tell you, I'm not gonna give you advice about something that I haven't gone through.

• 5:03Speaker 07

  Yeah, and that's where I was like, ooh, I clocked that because it was sort of how I feel about, well, our podcast and just life in general. Like, I always say, like, why would I go to a therapist, like a marriage therapist that's never been married? Or, you know, a child psychologist who's never had a kid? It's, it doesn't mean that you don't have great advice. It just means that it's so much richer to get advice from people who have gone through it and come out the other end.

• 5:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:26Speaker 07

  Successfully.

• 5:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:28Speaker 07

  It's inspirational.

• 5:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, and she talked a lot about how she got her groove back.

• 5:33Speaker 07

  Girl, did she get her groove back.

• 5:36Speaker 04

  Finding a new lover.

• 5:38Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 5:38Speaker 04

  That's the way she described the new person that she's dating.

• 5:42Speaker 07

  Her lover.

• 5:42Speaker 04

  As her lover. Which I always, that's weird. I've never heard anybody describe it as, besides the SNL skit.

• 5:49Speaker 07

  Well, her point was, without giving away the whole podcast, was, the point is, is like, it feels weird saying boyfriend after a certain age. I'm like, I'm a grown-ass woman, he's a grown-ass man. This is my boyfriend. Kind of weird.

• 6:01Speaker 04

  My man, my man lover?

• 6:03Speaker 07

  My man.

• 6:03Speaker 04

  Would you ever call me, is that my lover?

• 6:05Speaker 07

  He's my lover. No, I don't think I would.

• 6:08Speaker 04

  Would you ever say that about somebody?

• 6:09Speaker 07

  No, but I think it's cute. I mean, I couldn't say it with a straight face, but I do think it's sweet.

• 6:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. But anyway, yeah, she's, what else, what else will people learn about? She talked divorce, obviously, like you said, kids.

• 6:23Speaker 07

  Addiction.

• 6:24Speaker 04

  Addiction, addiction, too.

• 6:25Speaker 07

  Which is huge, which, you know, I definitely identify with because of everything. You know, I have a family full of addicts, so, you know, addiction can become a real motherfucker in a relationship. And we talked about, you know, how long you fight for your marriage.

• 6:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was a big one, too.

• 6:42Speaker 07

  And what you should and shouldn't, you know, sort of give of yourself in a marriage, not letting yourself sort of become small, right? Or losing yourself in a relationship. I think that's a huge one. I think we all lose a little sense of ourselves in any relationship, but to remember sort of not to completely let your light go out. Have a little piece of yourself always there as a reminder to be like, oh, I'm me. I'm separate from this relationship. I'm separate from being a mom. I'm separate from.

• 7:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, especially in her case, or when you have, when your spouse is in the limelight, is in, on the big stage. And obviously, David, her ex-husband now, is a funny dude.

• 7:25Speaker 07

  Incredibly talented.

• 7:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, incredibly talented, and so everywhere they go, it's like the attention goes to him. And how do you, how do you keep yourself when you have a spouse who's doing that? And so, anyway, she explained it, too. I mean, because there is some details in there that you gotta listen to in order to find out, but I thought it was really interesting, yeah.

• 7:44Speaker 07

  Yeah, I agree. And it's actually, you know, we talk about this. Sometimes it's hard having two big personalities in a marriage. We talk about that.

• 7:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, she's got big personalities, for sure.

• 7:53Speaker 07

  She's got a huge personality, and then her ex-husband has a huge personality. I think that we do a pretty good job about balancing our relationship just because, like, you sort of allow me to be the crazy one.

• 8:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. I'm more of a calm, introvert person.

• 8:09Speaker 07

  Yeah, I think we have a little bit better of a balance.

• 8:11Speaker 04

  Totally introvert, but yeah. Yeah, yeah, so it's, I don't give a shit. Like, if you, go ahead, make all the noise you want. I'll be over here. I'm gonna go have a beer at the bar or something like that.

• 8:19Speaker 07

  Oh, we know, honey.

• 8:19Speaker 04

  While you go talk to everybody and go float around and all that type of stuff. And that's.

• 8:24Speaker 07

  Yeah, but didn't you say that one of the things that you love most about me is the fact that you can come to a party or you can bring me to a party?

• 8:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's what I want.

• 8:31Speaker 07

  And like, I'm not stuck to your side like a needy little, you know?

• 8:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:35Speaker 07

  Right?

• 8:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:36Speaker 07

  You like that I can go around and talk and handle myself.

• 8:40Speaker 04

  Totally. Go ahead, do your thing. I'm gonna be over here. I like, it's just my personality, so. Yeah, but I could see how that could be tough if you got two big personalities, people who want the airtime, want the space. Ooh.

• 8:53Speaker 07

  Ooh, yeah, that's, that's a lot of work. But I feel like we got to the nitty-gritty of it. And at the end of the day, it's a reminder to, to realize, like, no matter what comes in your life, especially something as traumatic as a divorce after a long marriage, a long relationship, or separation, you can, there's ways to get through it. And there's really beautiful things at the end of the day that you're gonna learn about yourself when you do go through these hard things.

• 9:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, and the V-word, which I got a feeling that's gonna keep coming up on all our podcasts, most of them, a lot of them, that theme that's in everybody's life, the victim. Where do you stop being a victim and start to take responsibility and say, all right, let's grow? And being a victim's okay. I don't, we talked about that, too.

• 9:39Speaker 07

  There's waves of it.

• 9:40Speaker 04

  Okay, but not for long.

• 9:42Speaker 07

  Yeah, there's waves of victimhood that sort of all of us go through at different times in our lives. And it's just better if we don't stay there very long. Let it come in and out.

• 9:52Speaker 04

  Victimhood is also honest. There's, I think there's complete vulnerability when you are going through that victim stage.

• 10:00Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 10:01Speaker 04

  Which is a stage. It's a stage. Go through it and get, anyway, we're rambling. I think people gotta listen to it.

• 10:07Speaker 07

  Yeah, pick a listen to this podcast.

• 10:08Speaker 04

  And it's great.

• 10:09Speaker 07

  Great nuggets in here, guys. Enjoy.

• 10:16Speaker 07

  All right. Welcome back everyone to No Safe Words. We have a fantastic guest today. Welcome to the podcast, Lee Koechner. Thank you for being here.

• 10:25Speaker 06

  I'm tickled pink. I like to use that, except I'm wearing pink, so I'm just happy to be here.

• 10:31Speaker 07

  Pretty in pink.

• 10:32Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 10:33Speaker 07

  I went down the rabbit hole on your socials and it was really cool. I had a good, a great experience. I was like, kind of influenced to get a divorce. Just kidding. No, but like you made it, you made divorce to me when I went down and I just sort of like watched all your videos and all your inspirational, like just the banter that you have. And it really like touched me in a way that I felt like, wow, this must be so incredibly, A, cathartic for you. And also to be like getting feedback from other women who are dealing with such a hard thing, like divorce, or like, you know, ending a long marriage or a long relationship.

• 11:13Speaker 07

  Getting someone to like, really have your back and like, the way you end every single one of your, your messages with like, she says, I love you at the end, which is like, I don't know, it just really touched me the way that you offer up advice, what you, what you have to say, the way you say it, it just was really amazing. So I just had to say that.

• 11:31Speaker 06

  I really appreciate that. Somebody said, quit saying, I love you. It's weird. I was like, no, but it's real.

• 11:36Speaker 07

  No, I love that.

• 11:37Speaker 06

  Because I think that we're all connected. We are all connected. And when we forget that, we suffer and crazy stuff happens. So I really like knowing that in each one of us is this incredible loving essence that's the same.

• 11:50Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 11:50Speaker 06

  But we just see the other stuff, which is ridiculous.

• 11:53Speaker 07

  I agree.

• 11:53Speaker 06

  So I do, I do love everyone. And, you know, I was talking a minute ago about my lover. I have this amazing lover right now, but he wishes I wouldn't love everyone so much and I would just stay by his side and keep my pie hole shut sometimes. So I'm trying to balance.

• 12:08Speaker 04

  What a way to describe.

• 12:10Speaker 06

  Yeah. My man.

• 12:12Speaker 04

  I guess maybe that's, is that old school way? My lover. Oh, lover.

• 12:15Speaker 07

  I wanna be your lover.

• 12:17Speaker 04

  Have you always talked that way? I mean, is this kind of a newfound wisdom?

• 12:21Speaker 06

  Found myself divorced, surprisingly. I found myself divorced and I was saying my boyfriend, and that didn't feel right. It felt like that's what a 16 year old says.

• 12:31Speaker 07

  I agree.

• 12:31Speaker 06

  And I was like, my ass is 60. He is my lover.

• 12:35Speaker 07

  Yeah, that's way hotter. Boyfriend is like for the young.

• 12:39Speaker 06

  It's too, it's too, it doesn't describe it.

• 12:42Speaker 07

  The 20 year olds, like I'm a grown ass woman.

• 12:44Speaker 06

  He's a grown ass man, too.

• 12:45Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 12:46Speaker 06

  And so like, just boy doesn't feel it, anything right.

• 12:49Speaker 04

  My man. You can say my man.

• 12:51Speaker 07

  That's you, but I like lover. That's hotter.

• 12:53Speaker 04

  Well, I like lover. Lover is cool.

• 12:54Speaker 06

  I like lover. Cause he's a lover of my heart and my body. I love, I love that.

• 12:58Speaker 07

  Me too.

• 13:03Speaker 04

  Guys, if you know me, you know, there's always something going on. Big games, streaming, traveling, making plans with the crew. There's always something on the calendar. So I'm all about getting more out of the things I'm already doing. And that's why I like about being a T-Mobile member. I get America's best network and weekly perks with T-Mobile Tuesdays. Every week, there's something new to check out. From savings on movie tickets and streaming benefits to access to unforgettable experiences. And now T-Mobile Tuesdays are available in Spanish, too. Just set your phone to Spanish. I know, easy, right? That's a lot of value on top of a network that already gives you the most. And it's just one of the reasons to switch to T-Mobile.

• 13:45Speaker 04

  Find yours. Visit tmobile.com/switch. Qualifying plan required. Best mobile network in the U.S. based on the analysis by Ookla of speed test intelligence data, 1H 2026. Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 14:27Speaker 04

  Chat GPT for teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. Chat GPT for teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down, rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 14:54Speaker 03

  Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin Unfiltered podcast?

• 14:58Speaker 01

  Here's what you missed.

• 14:59Speaker 06

  And the argument is, do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  It's real.

• 15:07Speaker 06

  Those are the very people who I always say, vote against their own economic interests, and they complain about the very thing they were seeing.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  It's raw.

• 15:14Speaker 06

  I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Roland Martin Unfiltered.

• 15:24Speaker 06

  I went off, I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Y'all gonna scream at Chanel, but you don't wanna see a black luxury company in the same vein.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network.

• 15:38Speaker 06

  12 seats, those are moving south. So if you Democrats, you don't wait till 2030, you better be hitting the ground going hard in the South now.

• 15:48Speaker 03

  And download Roland Martin Unfiltered on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 15:58Speaker 07

  Okay. Well, so take us back to how you started all of this. You, you had a podcast. I don't know, how, how many years ago did you have that podcast called Messy with Lee?

• 16:09Speaker 06

  Messy and Perfect Life. Yeah.

• 16:10Speaker 07

  Messy and Perfect Life?

• 16:11Speaker 06

  Yeah. Cause I, I really realized that we all have mess. And the more we talk about it, the more it normalizes it, instead of like pretending stuff's not happening. So that's why I started the podcast, but I've taught on parenting. I was Deepak Chopra's parenting, uh, global wellbeing on his first global wellbeing app. The parenting expert, and I've talked, I've taught on marriage and relationships and, and self-care and all this stuff. And I only teach on what I go through and what I experienced. So I was like, holy hell, I didn't know divorce was gonna be my next kind of topic to, to, to help on. And I share kind of the heaviness of my, what I went through, what I learned and how I'm thriving now, because I think everything just shows up to teach us.

• 16:52Speaker 07

  Hell yeah. So I, I have to clap at that because I think you being able to make that shift when, you know, your reality sort of like changes in an instant and comes crashing down essentially, you know, you were married a long time.

• 17:07Speaker 06

  A long ass time to my beloved. Like I didn't meet him until I was 30 and I met him on an airplane after I went home to Kansas City and I was flying back to LA for New Year's Eve. And I met him on an airplane and I was talking to him on the airplane. I was like, and I'd been praying for him. I'd been saying, my God, I'm 30. I'm so ready to meet my man. But I, I used to get drunk and make out and then run.

• 17:32Speaker 07

  That was the best.

• 17:32Speaker 06

  I would call it hit and run. I just had a wall around my heart. I was tough as nails from my childhood. And so I just wanted to make out and get out. I didn't want to get to know anyone or open up. So I got tired of that. And by the time I was 30, I was like, all right, I'm done getting drunk. Not really, but I'm done getting drunk and making out and going home with people, right?

• 17:52Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 17:52Speaker 06

  So I'm gonna just start dating. And I tried dating and I tried practicing the talking muscle and I hated it. It sucked. And then I just got on my knees to God and I was like, can you help me? I want to meet my man. I don't know how to do it. I need some, some help here. And here's what I want. I want someone who's tall and funny and kind-hearted and smarter than me. And when I meet him, say this is him, so I don't get drunk and mess it up. That was my prayer.

• 18:17Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 18:17Speaker 06

  And I met Dave on an airplane three months, three weeks later.

• 18:21Speaker 04

  And you felt it like right from the beginning, you're like, Dave, I'm Lee and boom, this is the guy. Like after a short conversation, you're like, this is the one.

• 18:29Speaker 06

  I was in the airport terminal waiting for, back Vanguard was the only flight that flew direct from LA to Kansas City. So I'm waiting for, I got my number with my brother. It was right after Christmas. And Dave comes into the terminal and I looked over and I was like, oh, I like his bald head and he's tall, his broad shoulders, cool leather jacket. That guy's darling. And then he got in line and then my brother Pat's like a super fan of everything. Like I get excited about stuff. He gets over excited, like a little bit like me, but a little bit crazier. And he knew Dave from SNL, but I've never watched that show. So Dave gets in line and my brother Pat's like, oh my gosh, David Koechner, Lee, do you know Dave?

• 19:07Speaker 06

  And I turn around and go, no, but how funny. It's a guy I think is cute. So Pat gets up with him, walks with him, talks with him till he gets his number, comes back and goes, do you have any celebrities coming to your New Year's Eve party? I always had someone and I'd go, no, I don't think I do. He goes, well, go ask Dave. So I went over and sat next to him. It's like, Dave, Patrick said I should invite you to my party. And he said, and Patrick is your, I go, my brother. He goes, oh, I'll come to your party. And we gabbed a little bit there and Dave, I don't know if you've met him, I think.

• 19:35Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 19:35Speaker 06

  When you, when he talks, his mouth pulls down a little bit. And I go, oh my God, he's had a stroke. Bless his heart. And I thought, well, I want him to feel comfortable and I want him to know I still think he's sexy. So I said, hey, I can see you've had a stroke, but I just want to let you know, I, I think it's sexy. And he said, well, thank you, but I haven't had a stroke. I was like, all right. Nice to meet you. And I went and sat with my brother and we got on the plane and my brother saved him a seat.

• 20:02Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 20:03Speaker 06

  And Dave and I started talking over Patrick and I was looking in Dave's eyes. And it was the first time I've ever felt at home in somebody else's eyeballs. I was like.

• 20:14Speaker 04

  Lightning.

• 20:15Speaker 06

  It's you. I was like, it's you. You're here. I've been praying for you. All this was going on in my head. So when the beer cart came, I didn't drink. And I was like, and then my brother Pat goes, my brother was in the middle. And he goes, David, are you attracted to my sister? Because Lee, you've met your match. I've never seen you act like this. And then I was like, cause I'd asked God, when it's him, give me the sign. And I knew it was. And then my brother goes, it's him. And I was like,

• 20:40Speaker 07

  Whoa.

• 20:41Speaker 06

  So I didn't drink and we, we, he came to my New Year's Eve party and we got engaged nine months later, married nine months after that. Five kids. And I thought I was done. So the, the whole divorce thing knocked me on my ass. When it happened, I was like, I didn't think, I thought I found my guy. I'm locked and loaded. I'm done. You know what I mean?

• 21:02Speaker 07

  I mean, and what, twenty two years?

• 21:04Speaker 04

  Married for twenty two years?

• 21:06Speaker 07

  That is a successful.

• 21:08Speaker 06

  It was a long ass time.

• 21:09Speaker 04

  That's a success though. Don't you think that's a success? That's huge, right?

• 21:13Speaker 06

  Huge.

• 21:14Speaker 04

  People always get divorced and they're like, oh, like it's not a, it's not a negative thing, I think, divorce. Give me your opinion about divorce. What, from the beginning, did you? Some people don't believe in divorce. They're like, once we get married, it is like this forever.

• 21:27Speaker 06

  Beliefs are bullshit. Beliefs are something that a church taught us, our parent taught us, somebody taught us on some bumper sticker one time that's stuck in our brain. It's not real. It's just something we hold that keeps us from really being fully alive.

• 21:40Speaker 04

  Well, the ceremony always says, still death do us part, right? So.

• 21:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, what does death mean?

• 21:45Speaker 04

  Do you think they should change that?

• 21:47Speaker 06

  What does death mean?

• 21:49Speaker 04

  What is, whoa.

• 21:49Speaker 06

  What does death mean?

• 21:50Speaker 07

  Death of what?

• 21:51Speaker 06

  Because I was in a marriage that was alive. And I was in a marriage that was thriving and I was in a connected marriage where we were supporting each other and walking forward together. And that's what marriage is, being equally yoked. The Bible talks about that shit too. So when you're equally yoked and you're walking together, that's a marriage. If someone sits down or someone says, I'm out, what, is that a marriage?

• 22:14Speaker 07

  No.

• 22:15Speaker 06

  Is that alive? Isn't there a death in that? You can't be partnered with someone who's no longer wanting to be partnered. And the funny thing is, any judgment I've had on anything, God puts me in it to learn to not have judgment on stuff. Like everything is happening because it's supposed to happen. Huge.

• 22:35Speaker 04

  How, how long do you fight for in, when you're in a marriage? And you see things are, are going, okay, hey, we're, we're starting to go on our own separate paths. We're, we're starting to separate a little bit here. What are the, how long is the fight last? Do you have that in your head? Okay, I'm gonna give this a year. I'm gonna give it two years.

• 22:51Speaker 06

  I love that.

• 22:52Speaker 04

  What, what type of steps do you take to, to maybe put it back on track?

• 22:55Speaker 06

  I love that.

• 22:56Speaker 04

  And when you realize that, okay, it's no longer you're gonna be on track anymore. This, this is over.

• 23:00Speaker 06

  You know, David is a really good human being and he's a really Catholic. And it's really important for him to be liked by people and to be married, right? So I thought it's not, he's not going anywhere, you know? No matter what happens, we are in. So when things got ra- bumpy and we have five kids and, and a couple of them have struggles and Dave traveled a lot. I mean, it was a lot going on, but I didn't care because that was my man, right? So that was in my thinking. So, you know, I'm sure if you go online, you can see that Dave's had struggles with, with addiction and, and stuff like that. So it's not a big secret. And I'm a big proponent now of understanding addiction and having a, a compassion about it.

• 23:46Speaker 06

  Cause that sucks and it can strip a human being of who they are.

• 23:49Speaker 07

  Takes down a whole, it takes down everybody around them.

• 23:52Speaker 06

  Everybody and mostly themselves, you know, like we all suffer from it, but my heart hurts for him to be navigating it at times or whatever. We don't talk that much right now. So whatever he's got going on, I, I just, I always love and support him, but I have to tell you what, that came in the picture and that's another thing. That was a death of my man. The guy that by, I, I fought for six years to answer your question. I tried to keep it together for six years.

• 24:19Speaker 04

  That's a long time.

• 24:20Speaker 06

  Started.

• 24:20Speaker 07

  Hell of a long time.

• 24:22Speaker 06

  When he started drinking and whatever, and he started like, I was like, what are you doing? Stop, stop it. He's like, you don't tell me, you know, and I was like, wait, where are you going? So you fight for so long, but then you realize this. I'm holding on so tight. What? That's not marriage. That's, that's not love. That's not a partnership. And, and by, if you do this long enough, man, it takes a toll on your body, my own well being. I could barely even parent. I was so focused on saving someone that you can't save. Saving my marriage because I was raised Catholic as well. Saving this belief that he's mine till I die. That thought almost killed the both of us. You know, how loaded do you have to go for me to let go?

• 25:05Speaker 06

  And I think that that's the beautiful stuff in life, man. It's like the heavy stuff.

• 25:09Speaker 07

  Absolutely.

• 25:10Speaker 06

  It's one, you hear that some about being cracked open and all that.

• 25:14Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:15Speaker 06

  It sucks so bad.

• 25:16Speaker 07

  Especially when you just still love the person so deeply. So having to let go while simultaneously still deeply loving that person is almost like double the amount of like heartache, right? And heartbreak.

• 25:31Speaker 06

  So my, my friend had her husband dying at the same time of cancer and I was jealous. Cause he was gonna die and be off the earth and she was gonna have an, an end to it. And then she's gonna heal and move on. I'm trying to grieve a person who's down the street.

• 25:47Speaker 07

  Right.

• 25:48Speaker 06

  And he's dead. I mean, there was a death in our relationship.

• 25:51Speaker 07

  Oh, totally.

• 25:52Speaker 06

  So that's an interesting concept. I really haven't looked at it like that with a death do us part. It died. You know, and when you hold on to something that's dead, you're out of line with why God has this on the planet, which is to live on purpose and to be happy. And to be healing and, and thriving. So death, divorce sucks. So bad, even if you really wanted it, which I didn't, until it was time to let go. But it's, everything is a blessing. Everything we can use as a blessing.

• 26:22Speaker 07

  What do you think, I mean, going back to your childhood, made you, made you fight so hard? What, what, what do you think it was in you that was instilled in you or that you saw growing up? Because I do think that we sort of, regardless of what we want, end up reacting in a way that feels natural for us or, uh, you know, something in our childhood or what we saw growing up affects us and influences how we act in relationships or fight for relationships or give up on relationships.

• 26:49Speaker 06

  Give me an example. Help me out there.

• 26:53Speaker 07

  Well, fighting for something long after you, you probably should have let it go. Or fighting to fix somebody that maybe you couldn't fix as a child.

• 27:03Speaker 06

  That's a really interesting, I've never thought about that.

• 27:06Speaker 07

  Right.

• 27:06Speaker 06

  In this perspective.

• 27:08Speaker 07

  Right.

• 27:08Speaker 06

  Uh, my dad was married, my parents were together till my dad died. And I think them staying together killed him. Uh, she was mentally ill. And he took care of her. And in the end, she was like, she thought we were the evil network. Because when you're mentally ill and you're not treated for it, your mind's crazy. And, and she thought we were the evil network for children. So she said to him, you committed to me. And my dad was like, I did commit to you first and I have raised them and stayed with her, right? And cut, kind of cut off from us. And we're all like, dad, come over to us, come visit us. We need, you know, experience happiness, but I watched him stay with someone that he couldn't save.

• 27:50Speaker 06

  And he stayed and I think it broke his heart. He died of a massive heart attack. So, uh, that's an interesting thing. So I was staying with somebody I couldn't save, who I still love so deeply.

• 28:01Speaker 07

  Right. But you did something.

• 28:03Speaker 06

  Why do I wanna cry?

• 28:05Speaker 07

  Because that's hard, because that's deeply, deeply heartbreaking. But also you did the, you did the thing that maybe your dad couldn't do. Is maybe something to recognize.

• 28:15Speaker 06

  Thank you for that.

• 28:17Speaker 07

  Because.

• 28:19Speaker 06

  Cause he did die for.

• 28:20Speaker 07

  He died of a broken heart and, and maybe the same thing would have happened to you had you not saved yourself, but you had to do that, right? So our only job is to be better than our parents are, and, and my children's job is to be better than me and so on and so on.

• 28:34Speaker 06

  If they're awake to know that that's their job. Otherwise you just repeat what your parents did.

• 28:38Speaker 07

  But something in you knew that it was time.

• 28:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's right.

• 28:41Speaker 07

  Subconsciously couldn't end up like your dad.

• 28:43Speaker 06

  I also think spiritually, I have a real, I have a great friendship with God. I love God a lot. And I think spiritually, if I'm move, I'm supposed to, you know, our relationship ran its course, right? So I think we both got what we came for in that kind of thing. And when it was over and God was giving me little hints, it's kind of over. You might wanna move on. I was like, hell no. I'm holding on to this belief. That I'm staying with it, right? What? That's not, anytime we're doing this, something's out of line. Something's not in the flow of, of, of life.

• 29:17Speaker 07

  Absolutely.

• 29:18Speaker 06

  So anyway, um, I forgot what I was gonna say. I got like this again.

• 29:24Speaker 04

  Intense.

• 29:25Speaker 07

  We're talking about our, you know, you're talking about how sometimes you have to know that it's when you're fighting so hard, that is a sign to give up.

• 29:35Speaker 06

  Yeah, what are we fighting for, you know, someone who's not connected to me anymore? Somebody I'm fighting for a thought.

• 29:41Speaker 07

  Exactly.

• 29:41Speaker 04

  But after a length of time though, right? I mean, because you, I would say, you, you have to fight, right? I mean, you fight to save something because relationships, as we all know, we've been married twenty.

• 29:49Speaker 07

  He's so cerebral that he's like, I'm gonna give it two years and after two years is the cutoff mark and I'm gonna, and when then I leave you.

• 29:56Speaker 06

  Well, yeah, because there's gotta be an ending.

• 29:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:59Speaker 06

  My ending was, I think my arm's gonna fall off from trying to pull him up.

• 30:02Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 30:03Speaker 07

  Right.

• 30:04Speaker 04

  Did, did, uh, what about trial separations, stuff like that? Like, hey, you know what? Get your ass up out of here until you get some sense and do this, yada, yada.

• 30:12Speaker 06

  We did that. He, he did move out. Once I looked in his eyeballs when we got into it and I didn't recognize him anymore. I was like, oh, shoot.

• 30:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:20Speaker 06

  I'm not married to you anymore. I'm married to this guy who's, I don't know. So he got like an apartment for three months, but he came back. He hadn't done any work. And I was like, I can't ever go back to that.

• 30:31Speaker 04

  Sure. And you've had that too, like with your ex boyfriend, the guy, I mean, where they, oh, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna, he, he was a drinker too. And it's like, okay, you, you go, you say you're doing the work, but then you come back. It's like, no, you're not.

• 30:43Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:43Speaker 04

  Right?

• 30:44Speaker 06

  And, and once he was out and I could breathe, I was like, huh.

• 30:49Speaker 04

  That too.

• 30:50Speaker 07

  Well, all you need is a taste of life of like outside of that feeling.

• 30:53Speaker 06

  And my home's calm. And my kids aren't like in the rooms with their doors shut. You know, I was like.

• 30:59Speaker 04

  And that's another thing, the kids right there. You just brought that up. Like, that's another reason why I believe you have to fight. I think you owe it to the children and to yourself.

• 31:05Speaker 07

  To fight for your marriage.

• 31:07Speaker 04

  Just to, just to see if we can get, get something back here. And then if it can't, then, then I would say for sure divorce. I'm sure the children was, was that a big part? How did that factor into?

• 31:17Speaker 06

  Kids are resilient as hell.

• 31:20Speaker 07

  They are.

• 31:20Speaker 06

  I wanted to say the F word on that one. Kids are so resilient. Parents are so worried about their kids. Their kids are only looking at us to go, are we okay? And if I'm okay, we're okay.

• 31:30Speaker 07

  That's true.

• 31:31Speaker 06

  But if I'm like fighting and I can't sleep and I can't eat and I can barely parent because I'm trying to save your father. What? God.

• 31:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:38Speaker 06

  That's F'd up.

• 31:39Speaker 07

  I agree.

• 31:40Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, a lot of people do stay together for the kids.

• 31:42Speaker 06

  People always say to me, when I work with people, they say, or women, I'm staying because of my kids. And I was like, that's the biggest disservice for your child.

• 31:50Speaker 07

  That's huge.

• 31:50Speaker 06

  You're modeling what mediocrity looks like, not love. You're modeling what I'm unhappy but looks like.

• 31:57Speaker 07

  Right.

• 31:57Speaker 06

  Is that what we want for them? We're showing them how to live.

• 32:00Speaker 07

  I agree.

• 32:01Speaker 06

  Letting go and letting Dave go do Dave and healing and getting back to me and getting back to this and going, okay, why am I here again? Let's go. I was his wife for a long time and, and a mom to five and still am, but now I'm doing me and it's fun as I'll get out, you know?

• 32:21Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 32:21Speaker 06

  It's fun. And I'm in line now with why the hell I'm here and I'm healthier and feel better and more clear headed than I've ever been in my life. And I quit drinking.

• 32:30Speaker 07

  I can see that. You've been, what, you've stopped drinking, been sober since what, 2024?

• 32:34Speaker 06

  Two and a half years. Is that 2024? Yeah. And it's when I met my lover. I really liked him. And we talked for three weeks on the phone for 30 minutes every day before we met. We met on Bumble. And I was like, God, I really like this guy so much. Like, this is the first guy since my guy that I really like. He's a solid man. He's a man. And anyway, I really like his heart and all this other stuff. So the first night we went out, I was like, I'm just gonna have a sipping tequila. So I got a sipping tequila. Then we went out to dinner. We listened to some live music because my friend was playing. Then we went out to dinner and I had a martini. And then he got a bottle of wine. I was fucked up.

• 33:12Speaker 04

  Well, there we go.

• 33:13Speaker 07

  She said, tequila, martini, and a bottle of wine, honey.

• 33:16Speaker 04

  That'll get you.

• 33:17Speaker 06

  So this guy that I wanted to show my heart to and take it slow, I went home and just went crazy with him in bed.

• 33:23Speaker 07

  Gave him the good stuff.

• 33:25Speaker 04

  Well, it worked.

• 33:26Speaker 06

  And I woke up in the morning and he took me home and I got on the couch and I was like, seriously, God, I've asked you to let me have two drinks. Now, I was, I was a high functioning alcoholic, meaning I could still have a life. And if I ever missed my exercise class in the morning, I knew I had to quit. I never missed it. I could be dry heaving. I could, but I was on that mat.

• 33:46Speaker 07

  Right.

• 33:46Speaker 06

  So I got on the couch. I was like, seriously, God, what the hell? All I've asked for you, I'm helping people. I'm meditating. I'm praying. I'm doing good stuff. Let me have two drinks? And then God said, how many drinks do you have to have, Lee? How many's enough? And I was 58 years old, still getting drunk. And I was a blackout drinker too. So I would drink and it would just shut off, but I'd still be awake. I wouldn't pass out. So I'm 58, laying there, just screwed a guy that I really liked. And I'm like, I thought about the question. I go, I'm done. And I felt a lift off my body in that second that was, I love miracles. I feel them, experience them every day. And it, it happened and I go, well, I'm done. I mean, the obsession to drink and what am I having tonight was lifted.

• 34:31Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 34:32Speaker 06

  And so I got to, the guy came over the next day, my lover, and he brought a bottle of wine and we were gonna go probably get drunk and go see some band. And I said, oh, I forgot to tell you I quit drinking. And he said, would you like me to do that with you? And I said, no, this is my deal. You know, I wouldn't tell. So he got drunk that night. And I looked at him when he was drunk and I was like, wow, I promised myself I'd never do that again. And I'm doing it. So I told him the next day, hey, I'm breaking up with you because you got drunk and I looked at you and I don't ever want that in my life again. And he goes, can I have another try? And I was like, yeah. He's like, I like you. Alcohol, you're way more important to me than that. And I've been drinking my whole

• 35:15Speaker 06

  life too. He's spent a lot of time in New Orleans and he's a musician. So I said, all right. And we both quit. He quit that next day.

• 35:23Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 35:23Speaker 06

  So we experienced everything sober together, making out. I used to always drink before I made out.

• 35:28Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:29Speaker 06

  I mean, everything was just this new, uncomfortable, wonderful, sober, present. It's been incredible.

• 35:38Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 35:39Speaker 06

  Incredible.

• 35:39Speaker 07

  What an experience to like, I mean, just meet somebody and have them like, I don't know, just sort of meet you where you're at. That's really beautiful and, and special.

• 35:49Speaker 04

  Well, it shows how much he cared about you. He was like, okay.

• 35:51Speaker 07

  Well, she gave him the good stuff that one night.

• 35:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's like, turn up. She's like, he's like, I'm in love. What I gotta do?

• 35:59Speaker 07

  I need to be with you.

• 36:01Speaker 06

  He's like, that won't change, Will, now that you're not drinking.

• 36:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:06Speaker 06

  You're starting to do all that, right?

• 36:12Speaker 00

  Okay, hear me out. Tuesdays are the new Fridays. And no, I'm not talking about going out. I'm talking about T-Mobile Tuesdays. Porque when the week needs a little pick me up, who doesn't love una buena sorpresa? And now T-Mobile Tuesdays are available en español. Just set your phone to Spanish and that's it. Bien fácil. Honestly, being a T-Mobile member keeps getting better. Not only do I get America's best network, but I also get access to member perks and experiences I love. I'm talking streaming benefits, travel perks, weekly surprises with T-Mobile Tuesdays, and so much more. And I'm all about getting more out of the things I already love. So if you're looking for more reasons to switch to T-Mobile, there are plenty. Encuentra las tuyas. Switch now to tmobile.com/conectate.

• 36:54Speaker 00

  Qualifying plan required. Best mobile network in the U.S. based on analysis by Ookla of Speedtest Intelligence data, one age 2026.

• 37:03Speaker 04

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amount subject to lender approval. ChatGPT for teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and

• 37:46Speaker 04

  interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin Unfiltered podcast?

• 38:04Speaker 04

  Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power.

• 38:13Speaker 03

  It's real.

• 38:13Speaker 04

  Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interests and they complain about the very thing they're receiving.

• 38:20Speaker 03

  It's raw.

• 38:20Speaker 04

  I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men.

• 38:29Speaker 03

  Roland Martin Unfiltered.

• 38:30Speaker 04

  I went off. I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Y'all gonna scream at Chanel, but you don't wanna see a black luxury company in the same vein.

• 38:40Speaker 03

  Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network.

• 38:44Speaker 04

  12 seats. Those are moving south. So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 2030, you better be hitting the ground, going hard in the south now.

• 38:54Speaker 03

  And download Roland Martin Unfiltered on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 39:04Speaker 07

  So, okay, I have to know a little bit more about how this relationship has sort of evolved, this divorced relationship in and of itself, because all I think about when I think about divorcing is obviously the kids come to mind, but I also think about like, God, 22 years, we've been married 20 years, the way our lives are like just entangled, like friends and family and relatives and distant, it's just like every single person in our lives is an us experience, is an us relationship. How do you untangle that? And how do you keep it from being messy? Can you?

• 39:39Speaker 06

  No, hell no.

• 39:40Speaker 07

  No.

• 39:41Speaker 04

  No.

• 39:42Speaker 06

  It's messy as all get out. And when you're going through divorce and when I'm losing my beloved and when I'm all of this and people are picking sides, I'm like, I don't think Dave and I have even picked sides. What are you doing?

• 39:54Speaker 07

  Right.

• 39:55Speaker 06

  But I, I can't handle stuff like that. I'm just like, I'm, I was already too floored. I just laid back and I let them swarm and do their stuff and I just kind of stepped out of it because Dave was Second City, Chicago, and he came over here with his improv group and they all got married and we all had kids together and they raised each other in their houses. And they were Dave's friends first, our kind of group. And like the head hen of the group was like, we knew Dave before you, so Dave's coming to our Christmas party. I'd gone there for 22 years with my kids. And I was like, what? I couldn't even breathe. But I showed up to that party with my kids because they wouldn't get to go without me. But after that, I was like, I'm done with that.

• 40:37Speaker 06

  Everything fell off, but really I think that organically things fall off when you evolve. You're no longer in line with the same people. When I kept healing and I kept evolving and I quit drinking and I kept connecting to God, the people who aren't, it's, I like them, I'll say hi to them, but I'm not going to go sit and hang with them. I'm not going to get fucked up with them. I'm not going to get drunk and gossip. I don't do that, you know? So it's, it's interesting. So you hurt like hell, and then you realize something bigger is at play here. I can't see it yet. More people are coming, new people are coming. My man's coming, you know? I mean, things I'm experiencing today, I felt like I got to sleepwalking when I was married. I was sleepwalking. I was

• 41:22Speaker 06

  living his wife, being his wife, supporting his career. And I'm a big ass woman with a big ass stuff in my head and things I can do and people I can help. And I lost that part of me. So.

• 41:37Speaker 07

  We can be, we can tend to play small when we're with somebody who takes up a lot of space.

• 41:42Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:42Speaker 07

  And he definitely took up a lot of space. And he's a, he's a star.

• 41:45Speaker 06

  Tony or Dave?

• 41:47Speaker 07

  Him too. This guy takes up a lot of space. And now that you, I, I become smaller because you take up that space. It's not your fault you take up that much space. It starts to become just like a role you play because it's just sort of just falls into that somehow. But I think it's a good reminder for women to just be mindful of, of remembering who you are and not totally, yeah, and not totally shrinking. Obviously, we have to sort of bend and shift like in any relationship, but to not diminish as, as ourselves.

• 42:20Speaker 04

  So, so, well, then if you could go back, or forget about going back, but if, if you had to do it all over again, what would you have done different to make sure that you don't lose yourself in that, in that regard? Obviously, the alcohol and addiction and all that stuff, that's a separate story. But I mean, as far as you maintaining who you are and keeping that voice, keeping that, okay, this is me, I want to go out there and make a difference. I want to, I want to speak up. I want to do, I want to do things. Like, how do you, how do you, for somebody listening, what do you do to make sure that you don't lose yourself? I'd probably ask you the same thing too, like.

• 42:55Speaker 06

  Well, I think it's, I, it's so interesting because there's little things like, we would go to parties and people would say to Dave, oh my gosh, you're Lee's husband. And he would go, why the hell is that happening? I'm the star. Like, why? Because I just connect with people on such a sweet way, or such a normal way, or vulnerable, or real way.

• 43:13Speaker 04

  Yeah. So he had a little bit of problem with that?

• 43:15Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I remember one time he said on the red carpet, it was Anchorman premiere, and he said in LA, and he said, this is my night, you know? Can you please shut your pie hole on the red carpet and let me have my night? I said, sure, baby. This is your night. You're damn right. It's your night. I tried. And I, I was quiet the whole way, right? Every interview, every major outlet. But then they got to the news I watch at night, which is ABC News, Channel 7, and George Pinocchio is the guy who always does the interviews. It was George Pinocchio for my fricking, you know, thing I've watched for the last 22 years. So before they started filming, I just go, George, I like your vest. I always noticed your vest. So then he gets in a conversation with me about his vest,

• 43:58Speaker 06

  right? And then he talks to Dave a little bit and we go on. So that night, I always record the news just to speed through it, you know, see what's up. So I put it on that night and it gets to it. Dave's all excited and it's me and George talking about his vest. And he said, I asked you one time to dim your fucking light. Not really, but he was like, I asked you one time to keep your mouth shut. And I did the whole way except for George Pinocchio. So I kind of feel like, it was interesting because he's in the limelight and he's big and I'm big, my poor kids.

• 44:28Speaker 07

  Oh yeah, two big parents. I feel bad for our kids too.

• 44:31Speaker 06

  Two drinking loud, sucking out the air parents. One of my kids is so quiet. She can barely stand any noise. Margot's the sweetest person I know. And she's just like, she comes over now and my kids start getting louder or whatever. And Margot's like, I'm out. She's like, I don't have to do this anymore. Right. So I think it really made me realize how big Dave and I both were and loud. But going back, I think, you know, the interesting thing, Tony, I wouldn't go back and change a damn thing. And I know people say that, but every little thing that happens to us, when we learn from it, strengthens us right now. So I had to lose myself. I had to try and save Dave. I had to do all this

• 45:13Speaker 06

  shit to remind women in a powerful way because I never teach what I don't experience.

• 45:18Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, I'm just saying in a way, like what, what could you, and it sounds like maybe there's nothing you could have done different.

• 45:26Speaker 06

  Well, I would tell myself now, like if I could go back, remember why you're on the planet. It's not for Dave. It's not for your kids. It's for your soul's journey here. These people are just crossing your path right now. And, and our kids, you know, we feel like this is our life. No, it's, man, it's just 18 years.

• 45:45Speaker 07

  And how much do we really get to tell them what to do anyway?

• 45:48Speaker 06

  No, we're just here to love and guide them. And then they go, right? We love them so much that they can leave.

• 45:54Speaker 07

  It's true.

• 45:55Speaker 06

  And hopefully that we did it well enough that they want to come back and say hi. But really, they spend their entire life out of our home, just the beginning. We just get to set them up with the shit they get to overcome and learn from, right? So I really like that too. We're not here to be perfect. If we were here to be perfect, we'd all still be in heaven, right?

• 46:12Speaker 07

  That's right.

• 46:12Speaker 06

  We're here to learn and evolve and grow and love and hurt and feel and experience and, and hopefully help other people, right? Be of service.

• 46:20Speaker 07

  And go through the hard things.

• 46:21Speaker 06

  Hell yes. Yes. And life would be boring without them.

• 46:25Speaker 07

  Oh yeah.

• 46:25Speaker 06

  I mean, they suck when we're in them, but then what comes from them is so rich.

• 46:33Speaker 00

  Okay, hear me out. Tuesdays are the new Fridays. And no, I'm not talking about going out. I'm talking about T-Mobile Tuesdays. Porque when the week needs a little pick me up, who doesn't love una buena sorpresa? And now T-Mobile Tuesdays are available en español. Just set your phone to Spanish and that's it. Bien fácil. Honestly, being a T-Mobile member keeps getting better. Not only do I get America's best network, but I also get access to member perks and experiences I love. I'm talking streaming benefits, travel perks, weekly surprises with T-Mobile Tuesdays, and so much more. And I'm all about getting more out of the things I already love. So if you're looking for more reasons to switch to T-Mobile, there are plenty. Encuentra las tuyas. Switch now to

• 47:13Speaker 00

  tmobile.com/conectate. Qualifying plan required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by UCLA of Speedtest Intelligence data, one age 2026.

• 47:24Speaker 04

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Chat GPT for teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. Chat GPT for teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems

• 48:06Speaker 04

  and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options, like studying study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com PARENTS to learn more.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin Unfiltered podcast?

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Here's what you missed.

• 48:26Speaker 04

  And the argument is, do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power.

• 48:33Speaker 03

  It's real.

• 48:34Speaker 04

  Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interests and they complain about the very thing they're receiving.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  It's raw.

• 48:41Speaker 04

  I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Roland Martin Unfiltered.

• 48:51Speaker 04

  I went off, I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Y'all gonna scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same vein.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network.

• 49:05Speaker 04

  Twelve seats, those are moving south. So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 2030, you better be hitting the ground going hard in the south now.

• 49:15Speaker 03

  And download Roland Martin Unfiltered on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 49:25Speaker 07

  I love that you said that you don't talk about or or try to help in areas that you don't experience firsthand. I, you know, this is why we started this podcast. We, we have lived a long marriage, marital marital life together. We have sort of grown up together.

• 49:43Speaker 06

  You guys are a pretty sexy couple.

• 49:44Speaker 07

  Well, thank you.

• 49:45Speaker 06

  I mean, if we ever got into swapping, I would put you guys at the top of the list.

• 49:49Speaker 07

  Thank you. All right.

• 49:50Speaker 06

  I'm not sure which one I would be with.

• 49:52Speaker 07

  Biggest compliment ever. Um, thank you. Yes. I, I just think it's so important to talk about what you know. It's like, why would I want to go to a therapist or go to talk to somebody who's never been married? And talk to them about my marriage and get advice from them. It's just, I find it so relatable and so healing to hear from somebody that's been through it. To get advice through somebody who's been been through it and gotten to the other side and healed themselves. Like, and that's what you're doing on, on, you know, with with these women who you're mentoring and getting through this, like, such a hard time in life. You're giving them hope, you're, you're giving them advice, you're giving them tools. And that's, you know, sort of like what we're trying to do here in a funny way and in a way that feels relatable.

• 50:38Speaker 07

  And like, bullshit, it's not going to be perfect. It is going to be messy.

• 50:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 50:41Speaker 07

  And, yeah, it's just really cool.

• 50:43Speaker 06

  Well, thank you for that. I appreciate that.

• 50:45Speaker 07

  Yeah, but I do think it's important that, like, we talk very realistically and like, we don't sugarcoat things. And you're like, this shit is hard. This was a nightmare or, you know, it's, it's all of it.

• 50:59Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I think no matter where you are with the divorce, it sucks. Yeah, you know, it's like the death of something that was once beautiful. And I try and remind women that when I'm working with women around divorce or post divorce is for me, like Dave, Dave doesn't really talk to me, but that's just how he's dealing with whatever's going on in his life. I don't care. I love him and I'll always love him and I know what's under all that, you know? And that to me, it's allowed me, like, if he throws darts at me or says something mean or texts me something mean, I can just watch it pass. And then I think, I know what's under that. I know that little boy. And I love that guy. And so then I just make sure I'm okay. I check in with myself. Are you all right? Do I need to do any inner work around that?

• 51:44Speaker 06

  Because I don't like to hold stuff in my body. And then I pray for him. I want him to feel peace.

• 51:49Speaker 07

  Beautiful. That's a healed person talking right there.

• 51:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, right. Yeah, that's daily work.

• 51:53Speaker 07

  That is a healed person talking because a lot of women wouldn't be able to do that, be like, damn, you know, they want to fight and they want to get it out. And you just, you can tell you've gotten to the other side of it.

• 52:04Speaker 04

  Yeah. And that's, that's like, going back to like, we were talking about experts. Experts will come on, they'll give you, okay, well, this is how you're supposed to do it. Uh, this is what the, the evidence shows and we studied this and I, it's, and it's like, yeah, okay, I get it. Maybe majority of the time, but there's still always outliers and everybody's got a different thing going on. That's another reason why I think it's so great for someone like you, because you're coming from a place of wisdom. Because you've been through this shit. It's been tough.

• 52:27Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 52:28Speaker 04

  So like, you were talking about you and Dave don't have that greatest relationship. A thing that we've talked about on this podcast is, um, is conscious uncoupling.

• 52:37Speaker 06

  I like that idea.

• 52:38Speaker 04

  Do you like that idea?

• 52:39Speaker 06

  Hell, yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 04

  Did, was that explored to conscious uncouple?

• 52:43Speaker 06

  You can't conscious uncouple with someone who's not conscious.

• 52:46Speaker 07

  Ooh, that's a cool.

• 52:48Speaker 06

  And I'm not talking anything bad about him, but I, I'm super present, right? And I know that nothing exists except this present moment. So any thoughts I have or I'm dragging in a bag of shit that's not even real, it's just stuff that I'm holding in my head. So I can be present, but if he's still really mad and thinks that I ruined his entire life and everything is my fault for his current situation, you can't conscious with that. You can't conscious uncouple with that, right? So you have to have someone who's willing and able and can talk openly with an open heart, not from the angry stories in their head. So I think that that's, but it's key because it means it was thought through.

• 53:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:25Speaker 06

  And it was meaningful and that you want something, Gwyneth Paltrow, I just saw like a quick tiny clip that she said, when she asked all her divorce friends, what was the hardest thing when you grew up divorced parents? And they said, our kids suffered.

• 53:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:41Speaker 06

  So she thought, how can I do it without my kids suffering? She didn't think, I really want to have a great relationship with Chris after. That wasn't her motivation, it was her kids.

• 53:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:49Speaker 06

  I think that that's a great motivation.

• 53:50Speaker 07

  I agree.

• 53:51Speaker 06

  And I think that there's a lot of times that parents put, talk bad about the other one to the kid. But you can't put the kid in the middle unless you do it too. So if Dave happens to be talking bad about me and my kids say something or say something about it, I just say, all right. And, and I can hurt inside, but then I go in and do the healing work and say a prayer. Because I'm like, if I say something shitty about him, well, you guys have no fricking idea, right? And you want to see a taxi just at me? You think he's, if I do that, then I'm putting them in the middle.

• 54:23Speaker 07

  That's right.

• 54:23Speaker 06

  But there's no middle if the other one's not playing.

• 54:26Speaker 04

  And so people take time. You just, you never know, like, where the relationship is going to be.

• 54:31Speaker 06

  That's right. That's right.

• 54:32Speaker 04

  In a couple of years, because people, I know for me, I've gone through it personally with, with, uh, with situations. And, and at the beginning, at the beginning.

• 54:42Speaker 06

  Yeah, let's give it a little shot right here.

• 54:45Speaker 04

  With, with things in my life, relationships too, it's, because you feel angered, you feel hurt. It's like, okay, I didn't want it to go this way.

• 54:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 54:53Speaker 04

  It's not the way it was planned. And so I'm pissed off.

• 54:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 54:56Speaker 04

  Okay. And give me some time to get over it. Uh, and hopefully I will eventually. But sometimes it never happens. My mom and my father, who I've talked about, they, it's been forty something years since they've been divorced and they still don't talk to each other and they don't want to talk to each other. And it's okay.

• 55:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 55:12Speaker 04

  It's okay. But hopefully you get to a point where you can.

• 55:16Speaker 06

  I hope so. Because I like him and I think he's funny as shit.

• 55:19Speaker 04

  Well, he's great. I love Dave.

• 55:20Speaker 06

  One time I saw him and he was like making faces at me and I said, dude, I'm still your biggest fan. Like, I love you. Like, you're fighting with the, you're fighting yourself on me.

• 55:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:31Speaker 06

  I don't feel it, but I gotta let him be him. And that's something I've learned too, is like, who the hell am I to say how Dave should be living his life? Or how Dave should get with him, be nice to me? No, he needs to do him. As long as he needs to do him to learn what he needs to learn. But not being attached to him needing to like me or needing it to be a certain way or needing him to remember how much fucking fun we had together.

• 55:55Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 55:55Speaker 06

  We had so much fun. Sometimes I'll just like, like the, it's not me, like when I don't want to do anything, but sometimes I'll see a picture where we're just fucking in love and I'll shoot it his way and go, I remember. I still remember.

• 56:07Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 56:08Speaker 06

  You know, and he doesn't reply.

• 56:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:10Speaker 06

  Or, you know, or he'll say, I never loved you. Or he'll say, you know, whatever he needs to say, doesn't matter. I'm like, bad. I just want to tell him, you know, I love you.

• 56:20Speaker 07

  Well, that's, I think that's really big of you. And I, I mean, what would you say after all is said and done? You've gone to the other side of this, what would be like the top three pieces of advice you'd give somebody that has just been gobsmacked by somebody or just been, just come to the realization that like, it's over. It's, it's time to get a divorce.

• 56:40Speaker 06

  If you've been gobsmacked by somebody or you realize something that you love is over or anything happens to you ever with anything, it's just like, stop for a minute, stop.

• 56:52Speaker 06

  Put your hand on your heart and just breathe. Because this is where it all is. This is suffering and hell on earth. This, this is heaven and peace. So it's just allowing yourself to breathe. Feel all of it. Cry your ass off. Do whatever the hell you have to do. Feel it and let it flow through you. Anything we hold on to is going to hurt us later in life. So feel it or just pause, feel it all and be really tender and gentle with yourself. Those are the three top things for anything that we're ever going through, I think.

• 57:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, just basically center and, and give yourself grace to be able to like move through it.

• 57:32Speaker 06

  And to hurt and to be mad and all the, all the things that come up. Because when you feel them and they come out, they, you get through it.

• 57:40Speaker 04

  I love that.

• 57:41Speaker 06

  It's, it's out. If you hold on to it, you're still mad. I mean, damn. It's like holding that hot coal. You're the only one getting burned. You have the intention to throw it at somebody else, but you're just getting burned and the other person doesn't even know.

• 57:52Speaker 04

  Doesn't even know. But, but I still think that it's okay.

• 57:57Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 57:57Speaker 04

  Maybe you get a little like, when I say stuff like that, uh, call me out on my bullshit if you think I'm full of it.

• 58:02Speaker 06

  Well, it's okay.

• 58:03Speaker 04

  Well, I, I think, I think it's okay to be angry for a while. I think it's okay to be frustrated. I think that's, that's, you gotta go through that shit. And I, I hate it when experts say, well, you shouldn't, you need to choose. And, and I get it, you do need to choose grace and you want to choose the higher feeling, but also go through your shit.

• 58:18Speaker 06

  Everything is okay.

• 58:20Speaker 04

  Get crushed by that wave.

• 58:21Speaker 06

  In your own time too.

• 58:23Speaker 04

  It's okay. Go on for a while.

• 58:24Speaker 06

  You need to get mad.

• 58:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 07

  But Tony, but Tony's gonna, Tony's saying this because he will put a time limit on it. He's like, you've got three weeks.

• 58:32Speaker 04

  Well.

• 58:32Speaker 07

  And then you need to be done.

• 58:33Speaker 06

  He's a time limit guy. He's a time limit guy. That's how he became a great athlete is by fricking having an end of the goal and hitting it. But no, it doesn't work like that.

• 58:43Speaker 07

  No, it doesn't work like that. Our friend, our friend lost her husband. He lost one of your best friends, um, to a heart attack, um, you know, eight years ago. And his wife was still going through it and he was like, it is about time. She needs to be done with this. She cannot keep crying like this. And I go, honey.

• 59:00Speaker 04

  We, that, we were talking like five, like four or five years later.

• 59:02Speaker 06

  No, that's fucked up too.

• 59:05Speaker 04

  I'm the asshole now. All I'm saying.

• 59:07Speaker 07

  That's fucked up.

• 59:08Speaker 04

  Well, look, I, that's how I. Process it. Maybe other people will do it differently, but I do.

• 59:12Speaker 07

  Tony's like, she needs to be.

• 59:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, and some people are chop chop people and chop chop people don't understand people who aren't chop chop.

• 59:19Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 59:19Speaker 06

  They're like, you just do it. What are you talking about? You can't get up and do your shit. But not everyone's brains like that. So that makes sense.

• 59:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, I realize everybody's got a different path and this is why I love sitting here talking with you, like watching, watching how you've handled all this. It's inspiring and, and, and people.

• 59:34Speaker 06

  It's okay for him. It's okay too for him to think that, right?

• 59:38Speaker 07

  I know.

• 59:38Speaker 06

  You just let him think that. All right, baby.

• 59:40Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 59:40Speaker 06

  Just don't say that out loud to anyone else.

• 59:41Speaker 07

  Yeah, I'm like zip it, zip it to yourself, inner thoughts.

• 59:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, but I do think everyone's process, especially with grief. It's a, it's an unlayering. There are like eight stages of grief shit.

• 59:53Speaker 07

  Oh, God.

• 59:54Speaker 06

  So I just think it's whatever. I had to grieve my marriage. I had to grieve the life that I thought we were gonna have. You know, like I had to grieve every birthday and holiday, the first year that after he moved out.

• 1:00:04Speaker 07

  Oh, God.

• 1:00:05Speaker 06

  Every holiday, I didn't pre-plan. It would just roll up and it was like, oh my God, we used to do this. It's gone. And I would just cry. And my kids are like, uh, mom, can you wrap a present for fuck's sake? So it, you know, I learned from that.

• 1:00:18Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:00:18Speaker 06

  Pre-plan. This year, we're all gonna have a big Valentine's dinner out.

• 1:00:21Speaker 07

  Oh, I love that.

• 1:00:22Speaker 06

  I'm gonna buy them all chocolates and but you know what I mean? It's like, we're gonna have new stuff.

• 1:00:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:00:26Speaker 06

  But you have to have that mourning and grieving and feeling it all. Yeah.

• 1:00:29Speaker 07

  You do.

• 1:00:30Speaker 06

  Let it out.

• 1:00:30Speaker 07

  And as you would say, divorce sucks, but we don't have to suffer.

• 1:00:34Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 1:00:34Speaker 07

  She, Lee started a webinar, a five week series webinar, right? Six week webinar. And you basically created a space where you sort of were like a spiritual divorce coach to all these women out there. What has been your response?

• 1:00:52Speaker 06

  Um.

• 1:00:53Speaker 07

  To all of that?

• 1:00:53Speaker 06

  I think, I think the coolest thing working with women is they think this stuff is outside of themselves. You know, it's the man, it's what happened, it's what they lost, it's this. But all of that, life happens all for this, you know? For us coming home to ourselves, loving ourselves, remembering who we are and why we're on the planet. So they wanna bitch about the husband. I don't bitch about people. It's a waste of time and energy, like even like.

• 1:01:18Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 1:01:19Speaker 06

  If someone wants to talk about politics or something. I vote, I volunteer, I donate to things that are important to me. I don't get in debate stuff because there's only a few things like driving, religion and politics where people can release their anger about life. So everything gets heated and I don't wanna get heated over stuff like that. So I just say I vote, whatever. Don't take shit too seriously.

• 1:01:44Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 1:01:44Speaker 06

  I mean, the world's burning down. Don't get me wrong, but what can we do about it? We can take care of ourselves. We can show up happy. We can be loving to other people. I mean, that's the powerful shit.

• 1:01:53Speaker 07

  Have you heard any bad advice out there from anybody? Like, have you ever like come across?

• 1:01:58Speaker 06

  Get over it.

• 1:01:59Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah. Horrible advice that people are getting. You've got two weeks and I don't wanna hear a damn word after that.

• 1:02:06Speaker 06

  She's still crying about that?

• 1:02:07Speaker 04

  You've had enough time. Get over it.

• 1:02:09Speaker 06

  He's gone, bitch. Get over it.

• 1:02:13Speaker 07

  I'm sure there's just so much bad advice out there, but you know, again, it's like it's, you gotta sift through all that.

• 1:02:20Speaker 04

  Totally.

• 1:02:21Speaker 06

  And I think advice sucks. I think, I think advice sucks. I think it's more like, I just get in it in the muck. Hurt, feel all the feelings. And then I look, okay, how can I get out? What's, how can I get out and how can I love myself? That, I love this, that the only thing we have control over in the world is how we respond to an issue and how we treat ourselves as we respond. That's it. So we know shit's always a-coming.

• 1:02:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, it sounds like a great coach right there. That's something you would hear in an NFL locker room.

• 1:02:55Speaker 06

  Hey, I'm coming.

• 1:03:00Speaker 04

  Andy Reid, take that. Yeah, seriously. But, but I think that's the best. You can only control how you respond. And then how you respond in that is what you've learned and what you've gone through since you were a little kid. And then you can listen to experts and people give you advice.

• 1:03:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:03:13Speaker 04

  More like you, people talk, you get this advice, but then when you're in the moment, you still do what you do anyway.

• 1:03:18Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 1:03:18Speaker 04

  Coaches would tell us to think this way, act this way. This is what you're, you're gonna feel. And then when you get there, people, I've seen people still going, going to the gutter. They still react the wrong way. So

• 1:03:30Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 1:03:31Speaker 04

  I guess my point is like you, you still, like you said, I think what we're all talking about.

• 1:03:34Speaker 06

  A piece of advice or a little nugget of a gem. That's really great. But how do I apply that in the minute, in the day to day, in the heaviness? Yeah. And then like, once you get it, once you heal, you get to the next thing, you're like, oh, that's what that coach meant. Or that's what that, I get it now, but I had to go through it. So I like to honor just the going through it part and the messy part and how much it hurts. And with kids, there are fricking hearts and to watch them have their own struggles and the stuff that they go through. We can't fix it. We just have to let them experience it and that's gut wrenching. I mean, it's all like, what is happening? That's just what I felt like. It's just a pressure cooker with kids and it's just like this pressure cooker of like, now what?

• 1:04:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:19Speaker 06

  Can we breathe for a second? I was like, happiness is like a respite between learning.

• 1:04:23Speaker 07

  That's why I always say you have to be, you have to take the joy and be in the moment. Because everything is temporary, right? Sadness is temporary, but so is joy. So if you experience joy and it happens to be there, be in it. Don't be, you know, waiting for the next thing, you know? Ball to drop. You have to like really enjoy life.

• 1:04:43Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 1:04:43Speaker 07

  And take those moments and be so grateful for that.

• 1:04:45Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 1:04:45Speaker 07

  Because you know something is coming.

• 1:04:47Speaker 04

  Stop being, stop being a damn victim. That's usually what it is. It's like there's two people.

• 1:04:50Speaker 06

  I'm big on that.

• 1:04:51Speaker 04

  Are you a victim or you're not?

• 1:04:52Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 1:04:52Speaker 04

  Come on. Cause we're all gonna go through the shit.

• 1:04:54Speaker 06

  Victim is the lowest energy level. It gets you nothing and it gets you more of the same. So when you're in victim, and I was in victim for a minute after he left. Oh, yeah, believe it, me, uh, maybe for a fucking year.

• 1:05:09Speaker 07

  I'm honest.

• 1:05:10Speaker 06

  I mean, I stood up. And I was like, oh, I'm standing. And I looked down. I literally like the foundation of my life was built on was gone. But my feet were firmly planted on the ground. It was just like, one day I just was like, oh, wait. Oh, what would you have me do now that I'm not his wife? I'm ready. Let's go. But I was in victim mode and oh gosh, it's so gross.

• 1:05:31Speaker 04

  I hate being there. I go there sometime too.

• 1:05:33Speaker 06

  Well, we're human.

• 1:05:34Speaker 04

  I hate it when I'm in it.

• 1:05:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:05:37Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:05:37Speaker 06

  But the cool thing is we have the power, right? We have the power. We have the one choice, the mindset, you know, whatever. We, we have the choice. Ah, do I like this? How does this feel? I always check in with my body because my body's like you're a hot mess, things are bad. Or right fucking on go. This is good, you know?

• 1:05:56Speaker 07

  Body always keeps score.

• 1:05:57Speaker 06

  Right? And when we don't honor it, we get sick. Something happens bad.

• 1:06:01Speaker 07

  Oh, we do. So what does life look like post divorce? Post, you know, the biggest, one of the biggest traumas of your life, biggest things. What does it look like? She's got a lover.

• 1:06:13Speaker 06

  It looks like strength. It looks like peace. It looks like sex. I am so sorry, but at my age, I'm experiencing so many things sexually and so open and so like, I am with you, baby. Let's go. I don't even know what that means, but we're having so much fun and sober.

• 1:06:33Speaker 07

  That's crazy.

• 1:06:34Speaker 06

  I remember that shit in the morning.

• 1:06:37Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 1:06:38Speaker 06

  And it's, it's a fricking blast and it's, it's a blast too to be, have the same sex drive as your partner.

• 1:06:44Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:06:44Speaker 06

  Mine's very high and my ex's wasn't so high and I settled in. You know how you just settle in, right? You get your rhythm or not rhythm. And I did that for so long. I was like, wow, I wonder if that's dead. And I was like, oh shit.

• 1:06:56Speaker 07

  She's alive.

• 1:06:57Speaker 06

  It is so alive. And we were talking for a second earlier about menopause and all that. And I was like, I didn't, I didn't have the hot flashes.

• 1:07:05Speaker 07

  Right.

• 1:07:05Speaker 06

  And I'm not saying that because women get mad if I say that, but, but the point is this.

• 1:07:09Speaker 07

  Congratulations.

• 1:07:10Speaker 06

  I never listened to one thing anyone told me about menopause. I don't ever welcome it. A red M and M will give you cancer. Anything that people say to me, if I enjoy it, I don't give a shit what other people say about it. I'm gonna enjoy it. And I know if I'm enjoying it, it's doing me good. Right? So for the menopause thing, I didn't even, I'm stronger and fitter and having the best sex of my life.

• 1:07:33Speaker 07

  It was mental for you. You feel like you, you know?

• 1:07:36Speaker 06

  I just stayed in joy.

• 1:07:37Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:07:38Speaker 06

  Besides the six years that I was in hell.

• 1:07:41Speaker 06

  But you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And I still found humor during hell, you know, I still.

• 1:07:46Speaker 07

  Which is key, which is huge.

• 1:07:48Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I just realized it's like all of that had to happen. I would never have let go of David had that not happened, but I wasn't meant to be with him anymore. It had to happen. It had to go like that for me to let go. And for that, I'm grateful to him and I'm grateful to God. And I'm grateful that God rewarded me with my lover because he's such a good man. And he sees me and he knows just how to handle me in all kinds of ways.

• 1:08:13Speaker 07

  What?

• 1:08:15Speaker 06

  Isn't there a fantasy?

• 1:08:17Speaker 07

  I love it.

• 1:08:18Speaker 06

  I am getting a hot flash now. So anyway, seriously though, it's, it's, there's always great things coming, always when we're looking for them.

• 1:08:28Speaker 04

  Yeah. Once you get out of that victimhood, and I think that's the

• 1:08:30Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:31Speaker 04

  thing I'm seeing a lot as we keep doing this show and I've seen in my own life, like once you go through the shit and you, and you, and you rise up and you stop saying, okay, I'm not, no longer a victim. I'm no longer gonna feel sorry for myself. It opens up the world. Like you're gonna get what you need. It's coming.

• 1:08:47Speaker 06

  And I love to say, why did this thing happen and what can I learn from it?

• 1:08:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:51Speaker 06

  And then eventually how can I help someone else with it?

• 1:08:53Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 1:08:54Speaker 06

  Cause then it becomes a powerful thing is nothing's bad. Everything is for, working for us, for our souls.

• 1:09:02Speaker 07

  Amen.

• 1:09:03Speaker 06

  Amen.

• 1:09:04Speaker 07

  Well, if anybody out there is going through a divorce or been, you know, thinking about going through divorce, thinking about leaving somebody, you guys have to go check out Lee. Find her on Instagram. She's got a great platform.

• 1:09:16Speaker 06

  Instagram and TikTok.

• 1:09:17Speaker 07

  TikTok.

• 1:09:18Speaker 06

  And on both of them, I have a little link that you can sign up for complimentary, uh, 45 minute Zoom with me. Just to see if I can support you.

• 1:09:26Speaker 07

  Well, I feel inspired by you. Like I said, it's got me like, not that I'm gonna divorce you anytime soon, but like, I feel like I could.

• 1:09:33Speaker 04

  But now you got a plan.

• 1:09:34Speaker 06

  Two weeks.

• 1:09:34Speaker 07

  Now I got a plan.

• 1:09:36Speaker 06

  You got two weeks.

• 1:09:38Speaker 07

  Two weeks and you should be over it.

• 1:09:39Speaker 06

  A victim shit better be over.

• 1:09:41Speaker 07

  Well, Lee, thank you for being here.

• 1:09:42Speaker 06

  Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

• 1:09:44Speaker 07

  And so, I don't, I just feel like I learned a lot.

• 1:09:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was great.

• 1:09:48Speaker 06

  You guys are darling. Thank you.

• 1:09:50Speaker 04

  I think you need a cigarette now. I'm thinking about your lover.

• 1:10:02Speaker 04

  Honey, Felipe sent another photo. From Argentina. How? With T-Mobile, of course. Mira, he's video calling us. Did you get my photos?

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  We did.

• 1:10:13Speaker 04

  They're so pretty. Here to share every moment with T-Mobile. Enjoy data roaming at no extra charge in 21 Latin American countries. Switch now on the T Life app or tmobile.com/Conectate.

• 1:10:25Speaker 04

  Qualifying plan required. Not for extended international use. You must reset in the U.S. and primary usage must occur in our network. Visit tmobile.com.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Monopoly at McDonald's.

• 1:10:35Speaker 02

  And wait, Monopoly is back? Obviously, we're playing.

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  I'm in, but first you gotta register for the game in the McDonald's app and make sure you're opted into rewards.

• 1:10:43Speaker 02

  OK, then what?

• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  Then comes the fun part. You peel game pieces on the eligible McDonald's items while supplies last.

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  Yes, that's Big Mac, large fries, ten piece chicken McNuggets, hash brown McMuffins, basically the classics.

• 1:10:55Speaker 01

  Millions of prizes this year. Free McDonald's food, major cash prizes.

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  Hold up, cash?

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  Cash dinero.

• 1:11:01Speaker 02

  And even trips to iconic McDonald's locations, like the Airplane McDonald's in New Zealand.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  Un McDonald's and un avion?

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  OK, say more. Nada más, just peel, then play in the app.

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  Despega y juega en el app. Get your bag today at McDonald's.

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  No purchase necessary. 50 U.S. and D.C. H18 plus. See play at MC.com for rules and play at MC.com/AMOE for info on playing without purchase by mail by November 2. Chance card game ends November 8. Game ends November 22, 2026. See rules for prize details. Monopoly is a registered trademark of Hasbro.

• 1:11:38Speaker 00

  Hey, what's up? It's Chiqui from Chiqui's in Chill. OK, today's vibe? Upgrade season. Because why do we level up in life but keep the same ride? If you're stepping into a new chapter, your car should match your energy. And cars.com is the perfect place to find it. With over 2 million new and used cars to choose from. I love the tools and filters. They make it easy to narrow it down by price, features, style. Tu decides. Y hello? No endless scrolling. You can check out real reviews from real people with real experiences. So tap into that new car energy and search cars.com. Cars.com, where to next?

• 1:12:13Speaker 05

  This is Iris Palmer from Against All Odds with Iris Palmer. You know that feeling when your skin needs a tall drink of water? That's when you reach for Clinique Moisture Surge 100-Hour Moisturizer and let your skin soak it up. It absorbs instantly and gives you 100 hours of hydration for that plump, healthy-looking glow. And the texture? Lightweight, refreshing, oil-free gel cream that feels so good going on, never heavy or weighted down. Plus, it's allergy-tested, fragrance-free, and safe for sensitive skin. Check, check, and super check. Try Clinique Moisture Surge 100-Hour today at Clinique.com. Feels like Moisture Surge.

• 1:12:52Speaker 03

  Coca-Cola. For the big, for the small, the short, and the tall. Peacemakers, risk-takers. For the optimists, pessimists. For long-distance love. For introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola. For everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.