Pod Insights My Therapist Ghosted Me MTGM EXTRA! "Red flags everywhere... Like a parade." About this episode If the Brooklyn thing hadn't have kicked off last week, Vogue & Joanne would've been straight into this next topic... Steven Bartlett... What. On. EARTH?!
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Transcript 0:01 Speaker 00 This is a Global Player original podcast.
0:10 Speaker 01 Hello and welcome to My Therapist Ghosted Me with me, Vogue Williams and Joanne McNally.
0:19 Speaker 01 Okay, Stephen Bartlett, UK's biggest podcast. So he has the biggest podcast and everybody has gone kind of wild and we probably would have talked about this on the main, had Brooklyn Beckham not come out with the news that he came out with.
0:33 Speaker 02 Taking up our time, yeah.
0:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, so it just felt more important to cover Brooklyn, but we also feel it's important to cover this because...
0:39 Speaker 02 Also, I do hope that we were met. When I left the pod yesterday and it was like I'd been, something had kind of passed through me. It was like I'd done ayahuasca. I was so high on the adrenaline of the podcast, but I was like, I hope we weren't too hard on him.
0:56 Speaker 01 I think that everybody has an opinion on the thing. At the end of the day, it's a really sad situation and you'd hope that they will find a way to figure it out. The only thing that like, I just feel, I just think it's a step too far coming out against your family like that. It just feels, it's like a dirty game. It's like what Harry did. It's grim. Harry, Prince Harry. Is he still Prince? Oh yeah. No, that's Andrew. Okay, yes, he is still Prince.
1:17 Speaker 02 He's just kind of rando Harry now, isn't he?
1:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:20 Speaker 02 He's rando Harry. But yeah, so I just, I just want to add that in. I hope, because we were very worked up and I hope we weren't too harsh on him.
1:27 Speaker 01 No. So, okay, so Stephen Bartlett, he does loads of different topics. I actually saw, and I listened to an episode of him and Esther Perel because I do really like her. You actually put me on her and I really, really like her stuff. And he was talking to her about dating apps and she was kind of calling him out and he was like, talking about how it's so hard for men and like, there's this man who spent like two years, maybe it was five years, on a dating app, trying to find a girl. And this other man who was the most swiped, he did the most swipes. So he swiped like over 2,000 people. He had conversations with a thousand and then he only ended up having a date with one that didn't work out. And he was like, like, how are people supposed to meet each other? And she was literally like, dude, they're meant to go out and meet each other. She was like, how long did he spend messaging?
2:10 Speaker 01 People in his house when he could have been out meeting actual real people. Anyway, he did a podcast with a YouTuber called Chris Williamson and they were talking about the declining birth weights. First of all, two men that have no children discussing declining birth weights is is an unusual topic for them to touch on.
2:27 Speaker 02 I think they were coming at it from a space of, you know, this male loneliness epidemic and there's a lot of men who are, as we we call incels, involuntary celibates, who can't find a woman to ride them. There's a new trend, we're discentering men, women are financially secure, marriage and kids isn't what it was, it's all kind of falling apart. And women are actually quite good at being on their own. We kind of have our community, we have good friends. And and they're talking about, are these men entitled to have sex and keep their legacy and keep their genes going? Because all these men are going to die out.
3:03 Speaker 01 No. Keep to keep their, yeah, to keep their gene pool going. Listen, obviously there is a big problem with male loneliness, but and we're not taking away from that, but it was the way that they said it, that women basically, basically painting women as the problem and men have to pass on their genes. And how women are deciding to choose education, working in their careers instead of going to have children, which was just, it kind of started from this list of a girl called Abigail Porter. And they were reading her list and it was her hundred reasons plus not to have kids. Now, I found a lot of it funny. It was like morning sickness. This girl once threw up so much that she burst all the blood vessels in her eyes. You can't choose how many babies you have. Imagine you decide to have kids and then boom, you have triplets.
3:43 Speaker 01 So it was kind of stuff like that. And they were kind of insulting her list, being like, this is basically the problem. Like this is making women not want to have children. But at the end of the day, why, if certain men can't meet women and they're sitting at home with their computer, like that man who was sitting at home just looking for dates online instead of actually going out into the real world. It's not like Handmaid's Tale shit where women then have to be impregnated to make sure that we keep. Like, do you not remember when I was having Otto? And we were laughing at the fact that you were like, this is bad for the environment because only four years ago, everyone was like, it's so bad for the environment, all these children, people are having too many children. And it was kind of that. And now it's turned to this and the two of them are discussing it and everybody has rightfully gone insane.
4:26 Speaker 02 I think the big problem with the conversation was Stephen Bartlett asked the question, should society intervene?
4:33 Speaker 02 Which of course, any woman, any woman who hears this is like, he sounds like he's trying to organise some mass grape in the town where women are going to be held down and impregnated, or he's going to roofie the whole country. I don't know what, I don't know what, I don't know what he was saying. Jordan Peterson has had these conversations before about should society intervene. And I will say this, Stephen Bartlett and that other lad, Chris Williamson, when I say, all these lads do, they're all part of this like manosphere, like it's all about men's mental health. Grant, men's mental health, obviously that must be important. These lads, especially that guy, Chris Williamson, he's always bothered me because he looks in behind the eyes. And you can just tell.
5:11 Speaker 01 He literally has just found these opinions somewhere and now he's spouting them out like they're his own. It's like, shut up.
5:17 Speaker 02 It's so clear. I'm so glad you agree with me because I feel the same. He's so clearly regurgitating shit that he's heard other people say because he thinks it makes him sound smart. But anyway, obviously the internet blew up. Do you know what? This is, this is what bothers me about this thing. There's no conversation. They're all about, could men be kinder, more charming, buy a suit, pay for dates, two bits like that, instead of holding women down and impregnating, which I know isn't what he means.
5:45 Speaker 01 Some of the points that they were talking about and they were agreeing with each other. Men show up on dating apps and are getting nothing. Well, they obviously, just because they show up doesn't mean everybody wants them. And then women should practise being receptive to men. Pardon?
5:58 Speaker 02 Yeah. Do you know what? I think the, well, those lads who aren't getting any luck, they need to come on our journey, Jo, and be an 8.6 by May. But I also feel like.
6:07 Speaker 01 Poor Jo. Just came onto this podcast, probably thinking, my hair looks nice today. And Joanna fragged him right there.
6:14 Speaker 02 Jo, I don't, I don't know if we can get you to an 8.6, but we'll get you somewhere.
6:19 Speaker 03 We've got to, we've got to make do, haven't we?
6:21 Speaker 02 Well, when Vogue posted the photo of you yesterday, several people messaged me thinking they thought, they thought you were Brooklyn Beckham. So there you go, Joseph.
6:28 Speaker 01 I did get that a little bit. And he is good looking now, Brooklyn Beckham. We can't take that away from him.
6:32 Speaker 03 I do think it's because my hair needs a cut at the moment and I hadn't washed it in several days. And that's no comment on Brooklyn. I just think you need a haircut.
6:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But back to the lads. You're not, you're not, you're not entitled to sex and kids. Like, if you, if you're that worried about your legacy, buy a plaque and a, buy a bench in a park. Do you know what I mean?
6:51 Speaker 01 Women aren't, women aren't resources either.
6:58 Speaker 02 I love that one.
7:01 Speaker 02 Bio wank sleep, you know, do whatever, like, I, like, no, and listen, I do think the declining, it's, it's all everyone's, anyone's talking about at the moment, and it will become an issue eventually, like, you're kind of, how do we keep humankind going? But I honestly think the robots are going to take us out before any of that shit kicks off. Anyway, I wrote down a list of how not to be an incel. Do you know what it's like? It's, they're not, these men aren't going to starve to death from lack of sex. Should look at me. I'm practically re-virginized at this stage. You don't see me out asking society to intervene, do you?
7:28 Speaker 01 You are. I, I have a real concern. I don't even know if you're using your bits and bobs that you have in the house anymore. You've just stopped.
7:34 Speaker 02 Did that stay in?
7:36 Speaker 01 What?
7:38 Speaker 02 I can't even think about it. These men, I'm not being bad, I'm not being bad, when she said, that's something I say when I'm about to be bad. I know exactly the kind of men, and I do, I think the dating, apps are very much, they're very physical, like, it's very visible.
7:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:55 Speaker 02 Do you know what I mean? If you lined up any of my ex-boyfriends, I wouldn't match with any of them on a date now. Actually, no, sorry, I matched with two, but the other five, I wouldn't have. But I, when I met them in person, I was obviously obsessed with them. So I'm just saying.
8:05 Speaker 01 I think it's like trying to get out, I know it's not easy, but trying to get out and meet people in real life is always going to be the better option, because you will be so picky, like, I always said that about Sven, not that he's not good-looking, but wouldn't have been my type at the time, I wouldn't have swiped for him. And we're married now with three kids, so better to meet somebody in real life.
8:22 Speaker 02 Yeah.
8:22 Speaker 01 He's got a snotty nose and it stinks to drink on a ski slope.
8:26 Speaker 02 Luckily for you, you are out of the trenches now, and as a woman who is very much still in them, and is a product of my generation and has de-centered men, and now spends all my time indoors in my boffice. This is what I was going to say. Men, exfoliate. It's not hard. Exfoliate. Fix your scalp issues. Do not post dating profile photos in a gaming seat.
8:48 Speaker 01 Yes, yes, agree.
8:50 Speaker 02 That is a huge flag.
8:51 Speaker 01 Do not own a game, don't own a gaming seat.
8:55 Speaker 02 Don't have tiny windows in the background because I'll know it's a basement. Do not post a photo where you're wearing a Britney Mike because I know you are gaming. Don't eat your dinner off a clothes horse. Don't display every bottle of Jack Daniels like it's some achievement around your house. Stop watching anime porn.
9:11 Speaker 01 Good points.
9:12 Speaker 02 Potentially buy nose clippers. All holes should be free of hair. I'm just trying to help.
9:18 Speaker 01 Well, mine would be more along the lines of like, treat women with respect. Don't just expect women to want to jump at you. Understand like what, what the person you're trying to date enjoys. Go out, have fun, don't be expectant, be respectful, be polite. It's not hard.
9:35 Speaker 02 The conversation was very problematic because it's like, where was the argument for a man bringing something else to the table instead of the idea of being like handcuff a woman to a fucking radiator and stick a baby in her against her will, which I'm sure that's not what he was suggesting, but it certainly sounded like it.
9:49 Speaker 01 It definitely came across like that and I always think that like, I hate this kind of cancel culture, which is really going in and out and I know that we're talking about it, but we're allowed to have the conversation. I don't agree with the cancel culture. I don't think he's going to get cancelled, but I do think he needs to be more careful. If he's going to go in on such a heavy topic like that and so many heavy topics that he does go in on, just be more careful because you've pissed off every single female that's listened to your podcast.
10:12 Speaker 02 And the conversation also was about how it's kind of dangerous because he first presented as a kind of mental health guru for men. And because he's got this really, there was a comedian online whose name escapes me, I'm sorry, but he did a really good video about it and he was saying that the, he's presenting these really right wing ideas, but like in front of a ring light with a really sad voice.
10:35 Speaker 01 Shabazz.
10:36 Speaker 02 Shabazz.
10:37 Speaker 01 Yes.
10:38 Speaker 02 Shabazz, that's him.
10:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, he did a great video on it.
10:41 Speaker 02 And he was like, that's the danger. It's a, they're really toxic conversations, which women are not involved in. And he's, it's coming across almost like a thoughtful, like he's just being thoughtful. Whereas actually it's like, dude, you're, you're, it's sounding like you want to roofie the world and just shag us against our will. So, there you go.
11:01 Speaker 01 And on that note, Joan, go out and ride someone and get pregnant, please. You're part of the problem, okay?
11:06 Speaker 02 That's, well, that's why I'm on the hot journey.
11:10 Speaker 01 I think it's really, I'm going on this journey whether you like it or not.
11:13 Speaker 02 You're not.
11:14 Speaker 01 Yes, I am. Yes, I am.
11:18 Speaker 04 Hi guys, I'm Louisa Zissman.
11:20 Speaker 05 And I'm Anna Williamson.
11:22 Speaker 04 And together we are Luanna the Podcast.
11:24 Speaker 05 We certainly are. We think you would really love listening to us every single week because we are chatting, we are ranting, well, Louis, and we have an awful lot of laughs.
11:33 Speaker 04 Yeah, if you want to listen to us for some laughs, some real life talk and tackling some sometimes difficult topics, then do tune in to Luanna the Podcast now. Open our free Global Player app and search Luanna to start listening today.
11:53 Speaker 01 Hi Vogue and Joanne. I'm actually this guy I remembered from our teenage years. Glow up alert. He's now in his 30s like me. Suddenly very good looking, decent job, brand new car, the full rebrand.
12:04 Speaker 02 Successful journey.
12:05 Speaker 01 We were messaging constantly. Yeah, yeah, that's Joanne in six months. We were messaging constantly, met up twice and wow, red flags everywhere, like a parade with sirens. Because I've been ghosted before and vowed to be a better person, I decided I'd end things in person. Mature, respectful, character development. He was out in town. I'd just finished work at 11.30pm, exhausted but determined to get this over with. I offered him a lift home. I pick him up. He asks me to stay over. I say no. Then we drive past the Chinese and decide to get takeaway. This is where the horror movie really starts. The second, oh no, the second we, I don't even want to say this because then I'm saying it. The second
12:46 Speaker 02 Sounds like.
12:47 Speaker 01 He greets the server with hurrah in a mocking Chinese accent. I nearly left my body from embarrassment.
12:54 Speaker 02 Oh my gosh, what years of?
12:56 Speaker 01 Can you fucking imagine? Like, imagine that he thinks that that's funny. I nearly left my body from embarrassment. Important detail I forgot to mention, I am Asian. We sit by the window.
13:07 Speaker 02 Oh my god!
13:10 Speaker 01 Looking at the menu, suddenly he snatches it out of my hands, throws it over the counter and goes, "Just get one of each, one of each, like we're ordering Pokemon." What?
13:21 Speaker 02 One of each of everything on the menu.
13:23 Speaker 01 I don't know. I was absolutely mortified and silently apologising to every ancestor I have. In the car, he keeps asking to go back to his place. I keep saying no, then he starts calling me names. That was it. I pulled over, told him to get out of the car and drove off. Empowered, strong, a woman reborn, until I realised he took all of our Chinese food. Lana Del Rey came on the radio.
13:48 Speaker 01 I was in absolute bits. The man didn't just steal my piece, he stole my spice bag. But don't worry, happy ending. I'm now in a loving relationship. I found a new Chinese and I regularly enjoy spice bags at my partner. Shout out to Park Kitchen's Lago, restoring my faith in takeaway and humanity.
14:05 Speaker 02 What a douchebag. I, I, sometimes I wonder about lads like that. They think, they think they're being funny. Like, talk about missing the mark. And like, it shouldn't matter that she's Asian, but also, she's Asian!
14:17 Speaker 01 I know, but there's, there's some men, and there's a guy that I know, and like, I, I had to have a word with him because, like, I don't, I don't spend a lot of time with him, but he said the F-word in front of me loads of times.
14:29 Speaker 02 Sounds like Saget.
14:30 Speaker 01 Yeah, sounds like Saget.
14:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, I had one of them as well.
14:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, and I'm like, I just said to him, I was like, "You absolutely cannot use that word. Why? Why?" And I'm like, "Because it is so beyond rude and like, you're discriminating against people. Like, it's a slur. You shouldn't..."
14:46 Speaker 02 It's a homophobic slur.
14:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, I just feel like some people don't get it, but then I, I'm like, "Sorry, that man who's treating that face like that, like, what age are you that you're like, thinking that it's cool to do that? And do your parents speak like that at home? Where has that come from?"
15:00 Speaker 02 They probably do. You know what the older generation are like. They love a racist, sir.
15:05 Speaker 01 I love, I bloody love a Chinese.
15:07 Speaker 02 I'm the same. I was seeing a guy before and again, he was sag at this and I can't even say it. I think it's, I actually wouldn't even say it.
15:17 Speaker 01 Auntie Tina keeps doing that. At the weekend, she was home with Amber and she was like, I'm going in for a fag. And Amber's like, I told you, you can't say that in front of me.
15:25 Speaker 02 I still say fa- I still call smokes fags.
15:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, but that's different.
15:29 Speaker 02 I'm old school. That's, I call them fags.
15:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:32 Speaker 02 But anyway, he was calling, he was using the F word and I was like, dude. You can't use, and he was like, what? Like shocked that he couldn't use the word. And it did, it made me, it made me not like him anymore, to be honest.
15:47 Speaker 01 No, it really, it really puts a dampener. Somebody can say, but I know somebody else who says the odd thing and I'm like, whoa. And it just comes out as a joke in a conversation and I'm like, what the fuck? And it's, it happens like quite often and you're just like, whoa, like it just kind of smacks you in the face when you hear something like that.
16:03 Speaker 02 I have to say, talking about racist, we all know I was the victim of a racist take crime when someone threw a banana at me in the tube station. Said top of the morning to you and it was very clear. I was like, oh, I see. I see. I see. That was, that felt to me like it was a racist take crime. Anyway. When I first moved to the UK, I would meet people, English people, obviously, and they would do the Irish accent. And I, I, I found it insulting because they have, they're doing this really over exaggerated, stupid, oh, like this really twee Irish accent. And they're, it's giving, it's giving leprechaun. And I was like, I don't think, it doesn't feel right to me that you're doing that.
16:45 Speaker 02 Because you'd make, you're making me sound really stupid and really over the top.
16:50 Speaker 01 I, I do think though, some accents are really hard not to mimic. Like, you know, like I love a Manchester accent. And like, when I was in the jungle with Agent Ginge, like I just couldn't help mimic some of the words that they were saying because I just loved the accent.
17:03 Speaker 02 So do I. I, I, I, I will do, like Michelle Desworth, who was on the pod, she's this like really, she's real London Brixton. Well, I don't know what a Brixton accent is. I'm not, I don't know. I don't have the ear for it. But like sometimes I'll impersonate her and she's like, it's okay. She's, I can't help it. I'm like, innit, bruv. And then she says, you can do it because you're Irish. We're the underdogs so we can mimic up, do you know what I mean?
17:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, there's certain accents you certainly can't mimic, but like, there's some that you'll get away with.
17:31 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. There's very few now.
17:33 Speaker 01 Don't take, don't take the Mancurian accent away from me. It's like, it's all I have.
17:37 Speaker 02 I know.
17:42 Speaker 01 Okay, I'm a 35 year old gay man, but I live and move in a very straight acting world. I work as a quantity surveyor. Well, I'm also qualified as a quantity surveyor.
17:54 Speaker 02 She's always surveying those quantities. She's flat out.
17:57 Speaker 01 Cannot stop looking at that house. Do you know how much those bricks would cost? I will tell you right now.
18:03 Speaker 01 I don't really have any gay mates and I only came out a couple of years ago. I'm finally comfortable with my sexuality, but meeting men still feels hard. There's a guy at my gym who on the surface seems straight. Over time, we've had a few intense moments, prolonged eye contact, obvious checking each other out and one particular charged encounter in the showers. Sorry?
18:24 Speaker 02 Oh, a charged encounter. Tell more.
18:28 Speaker 01 I would feel like, and this is my only problem if I was a gay man, the urinals, showers where you're all sharing, I would just feel like it's just open season. Oh, he was definitely coming on to me, flashing me his dick and like, he wouldn't be, he'd just doing a week.
18:46 Speaker 02 Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah, okay.
18:47 Speaker 01 Okay, nothing physical happened, but the energy, eye contact, eye contact and non-placid, oh no, placid penis, penis was undeniable. And honestly, it left me a bit obsessed. I see him regularly. I've introduced myself and know his name, but he's very hot and cold. Sometimes he says hello, sometimes he completely avoids me. My gut said he might be closeted. That's who I feel, but I have no idea how to handle that dynamic without embarrassing myself or crossing a line.
19:16 Speaker 01 I've somehow managed to find him on Instagram, but he only ever gave me his first name. Is it weird if I follow him or do I leave it alone?
19:21 Speaker 02 Yes.
19:23 Speaker 01 I definitely wouldn't follow him. And if you, if you can't stop yourself from eventually saying something, I'd wait until your gym contract is nearly up. Because it'd be hard to be in the gym when you've, if he's got no interest. But there's a lot of men who are closeted, I think. And that like, they will go for the, like, for the odd lad. Like, we know people who are very much straight, most of the time. And then you hear things and it's like, whoa, hang on a second. That's not straight behaviour.
19:54 Speaker 02 I also know a lot of gay men who'll only ride straight lads.
19:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, me too.
20:00 Speaker 02 It's crazy out there, Jo. But yeah, this sounds like, I mean, it's very heated rivals coded.
20:05 Speaker 01 Hmm.
20:06 Speaker 02 Isn't it? That's how they started.
20:08 Speaker 01 It sounds like fun, though. Yeah. And the, and the coffee shop with the smoothie.
20:11 Speaker 02 Yeah. Like, as my mother says, if he wants you, he knows where you are.
20:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:16 Speaker 02 You know?
20:17 Speaker 01 Quickly followed by, quickly followed by, you're too good for him anyway, don't mind.
20:21 Speaker 02 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's intimidated. I'm taking dignity into 2026. So my advice would be.
20:29 Speaker 01 It's a big year for you. Are you able to, like, keep up with all the shit that you put on yourself?
20:33 Speaker 02 What?
20:33 Speaker 01 You're not gonna get, if you're, if you manage to pry yourself out of that boffin, I will be shocked. I think that's a step too far.
20:40 Speaker 02 Well, tomorrow, so tomorrow, the tour starts back. And it's hectic. It's, it's full on till May. By the way, Australia, tickets still available, Brisbane, Perth, Sydney, Melbourne. And there's also tickets left for the London matinee on February 15th and blah, blah, blah. But I was like, you know what? My new year's resolution was to leave the house more. However, I have one more day where I'm going to gift myself a full recline and a full relax for the whole day. I'm doing some press for New Zealand later on the Zooms. And I'm, I'm not going to leave the house. And then tomorrow, I'll reinvent myself and start my new life.
21:12 Speaker 01 Okay, fair enough.
21:13 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. One last, one last hurrah.
21:17 Speaker 01 I can't say, listen, I, I don't know what you think everyone else is doing, but like, not many people leave the house that much when you don't have to. And we have an outdoor job. Like, yesterday was a real struggle now for me, having to be out of the house for two different occasions, you know?
21:31 Speaker 02 I don't know how you do Lorraine at that time in the morning. I'd be like, Lorraine, I'm gonna come in in the evening, you can do a pre-record.
21:36 Speaker 01 I was away, I was asleep a quarter to nine last night, Joanne. That's how I do Lorraine.
21:41 Speaker 02 Lorraine's like, Joanne, you don't even work here. What are you talking about?
21:46 Speaker 02 Security.
21:48 Speaker 01 Well, everybody, that's it. We are on a break. We're on a break, only for two weeks, and then we're back. We can't wait.
21:53 Speaker 03 Friday the 13th.
21:54 Speaker 01 We're being-
21:55 Speaker 03 Friday the 13th.
21:56 Speaker 02 Forced off the airwaves. We don't even want to go, which is very not like us. We love to take a holiday.
22:02 Speaker 01 Goodbye, YouTube. Don't get too hot without me, do you want cake?
22:05 Speaker 02 That's it for this week. Like and subscribe if you want, but like, I'm not going to be a thirsty bitch like Stephen Barlow.
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