MTGM EXTRA! "Does opening your relationship REALLY work?! "

The end of pregnancy vibes are getting stronger on MTGM. With only a couple of eps left until Vogue delivers baby number 4, things are starting to slide into the absurd. Vogue and Joanne reveal why they've never been successful in scoring a camera man and the emails cover everything from body positivity to marital relations (and a lack of them...) My Therapist Ghosted Me is a Global Production. Tickets for Joanne's tour Pinotphile are now LIVE: www.joannemcnally.com http://www.joannemcnally.com/ If you’d like to get in touch, you can send an email to [email protected] mailto:[email protected] Please review Global's Privacy Policy: https://global.com/legal/privacy-policy/ For merch, tour dates and more visit: www.mytherapistghostedme.com http://www.mytherapistghostedme.com/ This episode contains explicit language and adult themes that may not be suitable for all listeners.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:45Speaker 00

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• 1:01Speaker 01

  This is a global production.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  If you are building a life together and someone wants sex and someone else is in ours, but everything else makes sense, is there a conversation to be had? Like, just go and fucking ride somewhere. I don't, I don't know.

• 1:19Speaker 03

  This is end of term vibes. This is pre-recorded. So you make note of that. We don't know what's happened because we recorded this. Vogue's off to have the baby now. We're not actually here. If anything's happened, we're not talking about it because we don't know it happened.

• 1:34Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. We're leaving that in. We should probably leave that in.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  Joe, you are notoriously bad at announcing any sort of breaks or, well, yeah, breaks in the podcast. So I think it's actually, I think it's great for you to explain what's going on. Vogue's pregnant. I heard about that this morning.

• 1:53Speaker 04

  Pregnant Vogue Williams.

• 1:55Speaker 03

  Well, at time of recording, she is. At time of episode, she might not be.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  But she's crowning.

• 2:00Speaker 03

  This is nice.

• 2:02Speaker 04

  I saw a hand earlier. I saw a hand.

• 2:04Speaker 02

  She's crowning. Yeah. She's crowning. So we said, we better get a bonus in. Yeah. Before the placenta pops.

• 2:12Speaker 03

  There is one more episode to come this Friday before the little break. There will be an episode this Friday.

• 2:18Speaker 04

  How long is the break? How long did, how long did we manage to squeeze?

• 2:22Speaker 03

  A couple of weeks. Off for a couple of weeks.

• 2:24Speaker 04

  We were already due. We were already due. A couple of weeks, a couple of weeks, because we take two weeks between each series. And I said, you know what? Because I'm having the baby, let's take, let's do four. Let's have four. And oh my God, was I, no, it just was not happening. It's like, oh no, we're just gonna double record. We're gonna double record.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  But what I will say is, in fairness to us, I think we can all hold our, hold our hands up and say, this job, we are on a fucking jolly. We are stealing a living.

• 2:56Speaker 04

  We are on a jolly.

• 2:57Speaker 02

  All we do is talk shit to each other twice a week. It's not, it's not a hardship.

• 3:03Speaker 04

  Some of it's very important news stuff. You sent me a fantastic thing for the podcast.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  Oh God, yeah. I do think we are changing lives.

• 3:13Speaker 04

  A hundred percent. Forget, don't bother looking at BBC News. Don't bother with The Guardian. Just come here for your up to date news.

• 3:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:22Speaker 03

  This is a cultural document.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  So it's the rest is politics, the rest is entertainment. We're like, we're like the rest is bollocks. Would that be a good name for the podcast?

• 3:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  The rest is worship.

• 3:33Speaker 04

  The rest is.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  The rest is uninformed, unfact-checked bollocks. It's catchy, isn't it?

• 3:42Speaker 04

  Or as Immo says, let's record this shite.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  Did you hear that, Joe? It was so funny. She goes, all right, let's fucking record this shit.

• 3:54Speaker 03

  She's a woman after your own heart in terms of.

• 3:57Speaker 02

  She's a woman on the edge and I love a woman on the edge. They're my favorite type of women.

• 4:02Speaker 04

  Sadly, I don't think Joanne and I are seen as the talent. That's like some people, that's what they call people in the industry. So like anyone who's like the presenters or something like that would be called the talent. But Joanne and I wouldn't, I don't think, I don't think we've ever been called the talent or, or elegant would be another one. We've never been called soft footed, ladylike.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  Soft footed? Who, sorry, who's called soft? Who, who is called soft footed?

• 4:28Speaker 04

  Some people are light on their feet. Some people are light on their feet. I go around and I'm surprised my foot doesn't go through the floorboards sometimes.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  God, no, you're registering on the earthquake fucking barometer thing. Oh God, Vogue's here. It's Wednesday. So I went for dinner with Joe Lysat last night, who was a friend of mine. And obviously we did the trailers together and we were talking about, because when we were doing the trailers, there was a couple of hot lads on the crew, right? And Joe was kind of going, would you not like, and I said, Joe, they don't see me as, and like, and they, they think I'm a, can we, are we saying [BLEEP] in the pod anymore? Or is that, do we bleep it?

• 5:04Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah. No, you can't. Yeah. No, you can say that.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Do we bleep?

• 5:08Speaker 03

  I don't know. I mean, let us know in the comments. Do you like it when it's beeped? Would you like it?

• 5:12Speaker 02

  I think we should be.

• 5:13Speaker 04

  I don't like the words. Yeah.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  Vogue, that's internalized misogyny, but that's a different conversation. I do understand it is quite harsh. Okay. I'll say, they think I am a spoilt bitch is probably the better way I would say it. So when Joe was suggesting that I try and like, like jig up to the camera lad, I was like, Joe, they don't like, because of this, like this kind of term talent and all, like, they think we're, they think we're assholes. And actually, sometimes we probably are. But I was like, Joe, there's no way. Like, they don't look at me in that way. Like, they don't, they think I'm an asshole.

• 5:51Speaker 04

  I tried to score one before. I tried to score one on the jump, like proper. Yeah, proper tried to score one. And there was two reasons. Speny went in and told him that he, he had fancied him and Speny and him were friends, but I quite fancied him. I still follow him on Instagram. And I was trying to score him and he wouldn't score me.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Speny, I'm sorry. Couple of holes in the story. Speny was friends with the cameraman.

• 6:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  I'm gonna need evidence of this. I'm gonna need evidence. Or did he just realise he fancied the cameraman, befriended him and told him to fuck off? That's what I would think.

• 6:25Speaker 04

  It was one of those.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  And then he went off and shot a couple of fagins. Yeah. I don't think, I don't think Speny's going for pints with the cameraman. Sorry, Speny.

• 6:34Speaker 04

  Speny cock blocked me all over the jump. There was this famous guy that Speny knew and I was like, I really fancy him. And this was before me and Speny had got together. And Speny was like, oh, I could probably set you up with him. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then texted and then threw in that he was seeing me.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  Of course. Like, we've all played that game.

• 6:55Speaker 04

  Oh, no, she's a lesbian.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  I've got a friend. Yeah, I'll set you up. Yeah. We've all played that dirty game. When I was in a beef with Brendan Courtney, I was like, Brendan, as a gay man, you, I deserve you to be camper because you are, I'm getting, there's an eye, if there's an eye coming my way, and there wasn't many, but there was an eye occasionally. He's not gay. I was like, Brendan, flick a wrist there, will you? Put some tassels on your tits. Do something. Because they're not reading you as gay. And now I look married to a man in chinos, which is also an issue. I was like, no, no, no, no. I'd never hook up with a man in chinos. I was like, Brendan, if there's anything you could do, if you could just

• 7:40Speaker 02

  maybe wear a pair of heels on our lunch out, they'll know then.

• 7:45Speaker 04

  A wedge, something.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  But the Birkenstocks, they're reading straight and you're cock blocking me.

• 7:52Speaker 04

  I remember once when I was like, I had gone to the prodigy with one of my really close friends in health and we were only friends and like, we still are friends to this day. Like we've never, we've kissed each other, but we've never done anything else because we are truly friends. But we went in.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  Who is she?

• 8:06Speaker 04

  We went to the, I was a boy. And so we went, we went to the prodigy and then we decided that we were gonna, and everyone else had been invited to this party and for some reason we weren't going to the party. And we were like, we'll go to Spirit.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  Who is this person? Block it out.

• 8:20Speaker 04

  So obviously we went, we went off to Spirit, just the two of us. And we were like, you know what? Let's go. You'll, you'll meet somebody and I'll meet somebody and this will be a great night. We'll both be each other's wingmen. And, and off we went to Spirit nightclub anyway. And then, so no one wanted to score us because they thought we were together. So no one wanted to kiss us. So we started kissing each other. But then every so often I'd be like, well, I'm gonna go off. I see a lad over there that I like. And I'd go off and try and get the lad to kiss me.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Vogue, this is so mean. If you, if a guy did this to either of us, we'd go mental.

• 8:54Speaker 04

  He was doing the same. We didn't want to kiss each other. We were only.

• 8:58Speaker 02

  Imagine that.

• 8:58Speaker 04

  We were each other's backup. So every so often he'd go off and try and kiss someone and I'd, and we were like, God, no one's biting. No one's biting. And it was because we were just deranged. And then we'd end up kissing each other and then going off and trying to find someone else. And they'd be like, what is that weird couple doing? But we weren't actually a couple.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  So as the, as the token man in the room, can you please explain to our very deluded friend here?

• 9:26Speaker 03

  I can tell you if somebody fancies me and if somebody doesn't fancy me. I am.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  But no one fancies you according to your mental.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 9:34Speaker 02

  One of the funniest, I'll never, it was one of the funniest, just because she's the smile on her. She's like, what was that?

• 9:43Speaker 04

  I'm on fuego, everyone fancies me.

• 9:46Speaker 02

  Everyone fancies me, yeah. Yeah, everyone fancies me and just a big photo.

• 9:50Speaker 04

  I honestly, yesterday, yesterday, when I saw, there was a headline again yesterday, and Spenny had warned me not to say anything. I was like, I'm telling you, Joanne, what you said about like sex when you're pregnant, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the Daily Mail was a headline. And I was like, oh God, all day I was kind of walking on eggshells. I was like, is he gonna see it? Is he gonna see it? Vogue says that Spencer Matthews has no interest in intimate relations anymore. And then I was like, I was getting really worked up about Spence seeing it and giving out to me. But then I was like, fuck, my mom definitely is gonna see that.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  She'd be delighted. It's every mother's dream that her daughter gets pregnant via immaculate conception and that she's not getting pawed by some lad. So Sandra would be delighted. But you know what I do think is interesting? And obviously because you are fodder for the Daily Mail, there's this weird line where like, we want to have the crack and speak freely on the pod. And then when something gets turned into a headline, it's half annoying. I'm always thrilled because it brings more traction to the pod, but I'm aware it's like personal life. But at the same time, we feel like we're speaking in a vacuum here. We forget.

• 10:55Speaker 04

  I just feel like we're out with our friends. That's the thing. It's like we're out with our friends, but we're not.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Well, remotely. Remotely.

• 11:03Speaker 04

  With our pals.

• 11:04Speaker 03

  On Friday, we'll be in person.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  We will.

• 11:06Speaker 04

  Woo!

• 11:07Speaker 02

  We'll be in person. Oh my God, the mice are gone.

• 11:13Speaker 04

  Are they?

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Sorry, no, the mice are dead.

• 11:17Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 11:18Speaker 04

  Oh, ding dong.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  So when you come over, you're each getting a shovel and we're gonna, there's a lot of digging to do.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  I'll have to take a picture now, to be honest. My kids would love to see that.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, the mice are, there's no squirreling, there's nothing, there's, there's nothing.

• 11:38Speaker 04

  Dear girls, I'm a five foot six American, don't know how the metric, but I weigh 341 pounds. So who knows how many stone? I live in Honolulu, Hawaii, and I'm 58 years old. If they make a bikini in my size, I'll wear it. Of course you should. So Vogue, if someone tells you to cover up, tell them to fuck all the way off.

• 12:00Speaker 04

  You are completely allowed to wear whatever the hell you want. Trust me, there are a lot of big Samoan, Polynesian women here that support you and respect your right to wear a bikini. Sincerely, Sarah, an Irish American. P.S. Good luck with the tour, Joanne. Sarah!

• 12:14Speaker 02

  What was, what were you saying about your bikini? I can't remember.

• 12:16Speaker 04

  I was just saying, remember I was saying that people said that I shouldn't be, no.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  Oh, sorry!

• 12:22Speaker 04

  They're saying I shouldn't be wearing one, yeah, yeah. I think you're dead, right? I think that everybody's body's different and if anyone wants to wear a bikini or whatever you feel comfortable in, wear it.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  Do you know what I actually think is really freeing about going on holidays? Because I think when you're in your own little cocoon, rotting in your bed and you're scrolling and you can get very lost in, you know, there's a lot of like body shy talk and what's right and what's wrong and feeling shit about yourself. When you go on holidays and you're on a beach with just, with like your fellow human beings and you realise those bodies, those aspirational, in inverted commas, bodies that were like brainwashed by, they're fucking, they're not, they're not around. And like, when you see normal, I'm gonna say, I shouldn't say that, that's not the right term. I find it very reassuring when you're on a beach.

• 13:14Speaker 04

  Beach bodies.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Exactly, you just see people, all sorts of fucking tits out, ass out, whatever. And we're all, we all look great, we're having a good time. Like we're just like enjoying your lives and making memories and swimming and on lilacs and having cocktails. And what seems important when you're on scrolling online has, it loses all importance when you're actually in the world. Does that make sense?

• 13:35Speaker 04

  And not that this matters either, but like, everybody looks very different when you're in a certain light, when you're taking a picture at a certain angle and doing certain things as well. So like, when you're just walking around in the wild, like everybody, like everybody looks normal. And there's nothing wrong with saying you look normal.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Also, sometimes, you know, and this is, this isn't like a heavy fat drop, but no one thinks about us the way, as much as we think about ourselves, no one gives a shit.

• 14:06Speaker 04

  Totally agree.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  That's the truth. Like, that's just the truth.

• 14:10Speaker 04

  Such an Irish, Irish mom thing to say.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 14:13Speaker 04

  I'm looking at you anyway. Who's looking at you?

• 14:16Speaker 02

  I've been guilty of that as well. You're going on holidays and you're like freaking out and you're like, oh shit, I need to like change, like, and you're like, once you land, you're like, no one gives a shit. And suddenly I don't really give a shit either.

• 14:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:29Speaker 02

  You know, it's great. I can't believe someone listens to us in Hawaii. Vogue, we should do a show there and write it off.

• 14:39Speaker 04

  Perfect, she's back to writing stuff off. Great idea. Okay.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  We could write that off.

• 14:45Speaker 04

  That would, that would work.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Could we not write that, we could write that off, Jo, could we not write that off?

• 14:49Speaker 03

  We could write it all the way off.

• 14:50Speaker 04

  You're, you're, you're allowed to write that off, flights and everything.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  It's a show!

• 14:54Speaker 04

  If you're going there to work.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Even if it's just that woman, it's a show.

• 15:00Speaker 04

  Well, come to your house, just you, just you and your gaff.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. One on one, well, it's like cameo, but like in the physical world.

• 15:11Speaker 04

  Okay, my wife has lost the desire. Hey Vogue, Joanne and Jo, one of the unicorn straight men listeners here, writing to you as a huge fan and student of your teachings, student of your teachings. I'm 46 years old.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  I'll accept.

• 15:28Speaker 04

  And understand more about women after listening to your podcast than I have for the first four decades of my life. I've been married to my wife, 42, for seven years and we've been together for 12. I've always had a slightly higher sex drive than her, but for the first probably five years, there was never a problem. We have two kids and sex has become much rarer after that. There have actually been whole 12 month periods where we haven't had sex and I've found it really hard. That is hard.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  That is tricky.

• 15:58Speaker 04

  Most men in this email section are being discussed for cheating, but I genuinely have never, and never would. I adore my wife, I find her so attractive, but I don't initiate sex anymore because it's really hard when she rejects me.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:11Speaker 04

  I've tried to have conversations that are better, but she just gets annoyed. I get the added mental load of having kids and the stress and not being in the mood, but I feel like I've lost a part of our relationship and it hurts so much that she doesn't seem bothered. I don't know what the next step is, if there is one. I would never leave her because every other part of our relationship is great and we're happy otherwise. I just hope that the desire returns one day, but it's easy to lose hope. Would love to get your thoughts. Oh, that's a really difficult one because like, everyone's, everyone's need and want for that is so different. And it's hard to meet somebody that's gonna be on the same wavelength as you all the time. And of course, you've got dips or you've got times where it's like you're, you're, you're having it more.

• 16:54Speaker 04

  But like, going 12 months is very difficult because then it gets to a point where it's just embarrassing having to, like, and she's probably at the point now, if it's gone that long, that like, it would be, like, I'd be a bit embarrassed if it had gone on that long. Because I'd be just a bit like, oh God, like it just would feel like a whole new thing again. And it would feel like a big thing because it hasn't happened in so long and.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  Listen, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say it and like, this is a sweeping generalisation, but like, whatevs. I think men and women ride differently. I think we're differently wired in that regard. I think men ride functionally, that it's just like, they just wanna like, I don't wanna be too cross now because we're, we've, people from Hawaii listening now, I don't wanna lose them, but they.

• 17:46Speaker 03

  If you've come this far, I think it's probably okay.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  It's, no one's coming, Jo, that's the problem. It's a tale as old as time. Women lose interest, they're not arsed anymore. Men still ride functionally. Yes, this is a very hetero take on it, but that's the world that I know. And I think once it's gone, it's kind of gone. And I think there's a lot of angles here. You know, if you're, you know, I think it's unfair to deprive someone of sex if it's, if it's an important part for them in a relationship. I also think, on the other hand, there's more to relationships than sex.

• 18:22Speaker 02

  I would refer this man to, there's a book that I'm sure I've spoken about before by Esther Perel called Made in Captivity, which talks about the kind of trickiness of monogamy in, when we live so long and how we're kind of probably not wired to maintain it for that long. And watch her YouTube, she has a TED Talk, literally about this, about the fact that like lust is in the unknown. And when you get to know someone for ages, I also think there might be some weird wiring in women where it's like, if you have a kid, you're kind of like, I'm fucking done with you now, I've got my kids. I don't know, that, that's it, that's from the Dr Joanne Pops psychology circus.

• 18:57Speaker 04

  I think it could have to do with things like perimenopause, menopause coming on.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  You don't fancy him anymore.

• 19:05Speaker 04

  That she.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  How about that?

• 19:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, but how she, how she feel, but she obviously, she hasn't said that, like, they've tried to have the conversation. I think that this is something that is, needs to go to, because I think it's lovely that you're still so madly in love with her and you want to stay with her. And all those kinds of things. We're not talking about cheating here. You don't want to cheat on her. You only want to be with her. You still fancy her. And I just think that that's really lovely. And I think that if you sit down and talk to somebody who's going to be like a mediator to chat through all your feelings and how you're doing, how she's doing, because you don't know how, how she's feeling. Maybe she's having confidence issues or something like that. But I do think that, I personally think that there is saving something like that. I think that women have different parts in their lives where they don't feel like having as much sex.

• 19:48Speaker 04

  And like, I have, I have, I have people in my life who are like in their eighties and they're still having sex. So like,

• 19:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:54Speaker 04

  It's not like that can.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  No, I, no, I'm sorry. I shouldn't say, I don't mean to sound like I'm saying that all women hit a point and don't have sex. What I mean is, I, I know that women, they have certain different priorities at stages. They're like, I'm fucking raising kids now. I couldn't be arsed with you. Or like, I don't fancy you as much. I don't feel as attractive anymore. There's, I have like wild spirals of completely differing opinions on this stuff. There's a part of me that thinks if a man even responds to another woman's DM, he should be buried alive immediately and have a cement block put on his feet and thrown in the sea. And then there's another part of me that is like, if you are building a life together and someone wants sex and someone else is in arse, but everything else makes sense,

• 20:36Speaker 02

  is there a conversation to be had? Like, just go and fucking ride somewhere. I don't, I don't know. Like, if it's that important to you.

• 20:43Speaker 04

  No, I don't, I don't think, I don't, the, the, the thing about it is, he doesn't want to do that. And, and she is, I would, I would say that she's probably going through a hard time as well, but you are.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  You're a great, you're a, you're a great guy.

• 20:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, you sound amazing, but I do, I do think therapy, a couple's therapy sometimes is really important to do. And I don't personally do it at the moment, but it would be something that I would do in, if I, if I ever needed to. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I think it's a brilliant thing.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  I'd do it with you.

• 21:12Speaker 04

  If it's, if someone, okay, let's do it. Fine.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  I'd do it with you. But I also think it's.

• 21:18Speaker 04

  This is the end of this relationship, but I do think it's gone so far now that it's, it's, it's gotten to a point where it's a bit embarrassing, probably.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  I also think it's okay to acknowledge that this man has needs and that he has a need in his relationship that isn't being met. I think that's okay to acknowledge. I don't think he's the devil. Like, I think it's okay to say that. And whatever happens, I don't know. Like, but I think it's okay to be like, I don't think you're evil for wanting to, for being disappointed that you're not riding your wife. I mean, the fact that you've maintained monogamy to this point is, I'm like blown away.

• 21:52Speaker 03

  In the last couple of episodes, there have been some really nice comments on YouTube and elsewhere, if you're able to leave comments on the platform that you listen on, please do comment if there's any thoughts that you have or email, [email protected] as well. Get down in the comments. Let us know what you think. There were some very nice things said about the woman who'd emailed last week about wanting to find friends.

• 22:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:17Speaker 03

  Go and check those comments. That was.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  Loneliness, it's the, it's the epidemic. It's the current epidemic. That's the big problem. They're like, we're lonelier than ever before.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. This is my, this is my last point, I will say. Some of the happiest couples I know are gay men in open relationships. I don't know how they do it. They're men. I don't know. Like, I don't know how you think or act, Jo. But they seem to have it nailed. They're like, we're mad about each other. We have a life.

• 22:47Speaker 04

  It's very hard.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  I'm just not wired. I just couldn't do it. I'm just, I just wouldn't be equipped for it.

• 22:53Speaker 04

  You've got to unlearn, unlearn jealousy and everything like.

• 22:56Speaker 02

  I feel like men can separate sex and love in a way that I anecdotally am unable to do. Would that be right, Jo?

• 23:06Speaker 03

  Uh, all very generic and general sweeping statements.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:10Speaker 03

  I think anything that you do choose to do, everybody needs to be on the same page. Don't go down that road on your own.

• 23:15Speaker 02

  Did you just allegedly really talking about?

• 23:18Speaker 04

  Don't fuck anyone over.

• 23:21Speaker 03

  Just allegedly.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Allegedly in your own feelings. Monogamy.

• 23:24Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  I think you did. Ride responsibly. I think that's what I was saying.

• 23:33Speaker 03

  That would be, well.

• 23:34Speaker 04

  Ride responsibly was, that's, that is, no cheating if you can avoid, because it just hurts everybody's feelings.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  It's so messy. Like, even when I was on holidays and there was a part of me that was like, it'd be nice to be here with someone, but whatever. It's not my life, not my journey. And then I'd sit, there was one couple in particular that I was, they were in the hotel, the same hotel as I was in Marbella. And they weren't, they just weren't getting on. Like, they just, they were, they either weren't talking or you could just, I was like, oh, this energy is like, I, I could just feel it. And I was like, do you know what? There's nothing worse. There's nothing worse.

• 24:12Speaker 04

  No, I hate, I don't want it.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  Being in a shit relationship and staying because you feel just like this is just, you know, you've made your bed and you've still lie in it now, not riding.

• 24:23Speaker 04

  I don't know if this makes me like a selfish person or something, but I would not lie in any bed that didn't make me happy. Like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to do that. I'd rather take the really hard, difficult road if something wasn't right for me than having to be like, no, I need to suck it up. I've got, I've got four kids now. Like, I'm lucky that I'm in a happy relationship. Like, I, we genuinely, we were very lucky. But I think as well, Spenny once said something to me like two years ago, and I was like, God, you selfish prick. But then I'm like, no, actually, he was dead right. He was literally like, like, we always, we just do everything with the kids and only think about the kids.

• 25:02Speaker 04

  And he was like, but like, what about us? We need, like, we come first because without us, there is no family dynamic. And like, we just make a real effort to try and like, even if it's going to the gym together or like going for a walk together. Or I went and dropped Gigi to camp with him in the car. So like, we had like 15 minutes today in the car chatting, just little things like that. I just think, I've found stuff like that very helpful just to make a little time for each other. So maybe if you and your wife tried to make, I don't know if you're spending lots of time together, but like separate time from the kids where it's just you and you're just being back in your relationship.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  Vogue, as a closing thought, I, I very much look forward to the Daily Mail headline tomorrow that says, Spencer Matthews doesn't prioritise his children.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  I might reshare it.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  I might reshare. Am I still your friend? Are you still, are we still doing regular, are you still Vogue Williams tells a friend? Or have we moved on?

• 26:00Speaker 04

  Oh, no, no, no, no, no. You're a Joanne.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  Have I been interviewing you for three years? Oh, I'm Joanne now. Oh, that's good. That's nice.

• 26:06Speaker 04

  You're a Joanne, but anything you say doesn't get put in the headline. So, and even if it's all you doing and I get stuck with it.

• 26:14Speaker 02

  You're a clickbait queen. Also, please keep sending in your emails, [email protected].

• 26:20Speaker 04

  They're great. They're great emails. Yeah. I can't believe you got that right, can they? I'd never.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  Vouchers. Thoughts. Articles.

• 26:30Speaker 04

  Tron would like a one for all nature.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  I got sent a Ninja coffee machine when I say I've been tagging the thing to pieces. Because now, of course, I'm a, I'm a greedy bitch. I want the barbecue.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  I'm like holding the Ninja machine like all day.

• 26:50Speaker 04

  I don't feel safe with her having a barbecue.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  It's electric.

• 26:55Speaker 04

  In that.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  It's like, hit you on my Instagram. I'm a ninja gal. Huh? Through and through.

• 27:03Speaker 04

  Well, in fairness, you've been carrying that fan around like.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  I know.

• 27:08Speaker 04

  I'm surprised you haven't, you haven't injured yourself with it. Just as this blade sitting on her lap all the time.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  I pay for it. I fucking pay for that fan. Listen, we all have a free beer in it. What can you do? It's just in our, it's just in our DNA. Okay.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  Your garden is as dry and as dead as you say it is. Don't light a barbecue out there. You're going to start a forest fire in South West London.

• 27:29Speaker 02

  Jo, it's electric. You charge it up with the USB.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  Well, there, then, then I, I'll shut the fuck up.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  I don't even need a barbecue. What am I, what am I going to do with the fucking barbecue?

• 27:38Speaker 04

  Still don't feel comfortable.

• 27:40Speaker 02

  Going to light a fog off it in the garden. Like, I'm not going to cook with it. I just want it.

• 27:43Speaker 04

  She'll put her eggs on and go up and have a bath.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  I'll put my knickers and bra on in the winter to make sure they're warm when I put them on.

• 27:55Speaker 04

  Oh, God.

• 27:58Speaker 04

  Bye, everybody.