5 | Guilty of Something

Lauren confronts her mother’s drug-dealer “friend” who gives her shocking information about Lori’s death. Lauren’s brother Tommy reveals information about where Lauren actually was the day her mother was found. Then, a final shocker threatens to derail Lauren’s entire investigation. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of My Mom's Murder early and ad-free. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts. This project contains conversations and information obtained over a number of years, and individual memories of events referenced and/or portrayed may differ. Any persons depicted in the project suspected of a crime are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  We went up all the stairs, walked in. My dad turned around and says, "Go get in the car." And after that, he said, "You didn't see what you saw? Just forget about what happens, and let's go." Exactly what he says. And after that, he never mentioned your mom again. There was just like a ghost.

• 1:02Speaker 00

  A ghost. My mom has been like a ghost to me too, all these years. But now, in August of 2021, a little over a year since I first heard from Louise, I'm standing in East Providence, Rhode Island, outside the house of my mom's alleged drug dealer, who was seen at her apartment shortly before she died in 1993. My heart is pounding outside of my chest. Can this be the person who can finally help me solve the puzzle of what happened to my mom?

• 1:41Speaker 00

  I'm Candace DeLong, host of the podcast Killer Psyche. In our latest episode, we go inside the case of Lindsey Clancy, the postpartum psychosis defense, and the stunning mistrial that just reignited a national debate. Listen to Killer Psyche on Audible or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 2:01Speaker 02

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• 2:43Speaker 00

  Episode 5, Guilty of Something.

• 2:51Speaker 00

  My mom knew Darren through Louise, of course, and Louise had told me Darren didn't want to talk to me.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Not a good time. Why? What's up?

• 3:00Speaker 00

  And at first, that seems to be the case. That's you. But I show him a picture I found, oddly enough, in my late adopted dad, Richard's bedroom, among piles of discarded mail. It shows me as a baby in my mom's living room with Darren and his wife, Kim. On the back, it says, "New Year's, January 1993," two months before my mom died.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. Your, uh, Lori's.

• 3:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Daughter.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  I'm sorry. I, uh...

• 3:32Speaker 00

  No, I'm sorry, Dad.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  I forgot your name.

• 3:35Speaker 00

  Lauren.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Lauren, Lauren, I'm sorry.

• 3:38Speaker 00

  Darren comes out of his house in his New England Patriots bathrobe and sits next to me on his front step.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  You wore a bathrobe?

• 3:47Speaker 00

  When I set the scene for retired East Providence Police Captain Joe Broadmeadow, he has thoughts. Yeah, he was wearing...

• 3:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's guilty. Guilty of something.

• 3:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. And it was like, you know, 3:00 in the afternoon, and he's wearing his bathrobe. It was just very...

• 4:02Speaker 01

  That's the drug dealer. That's first thing in the morning.

• 4:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know. It was like early for him. He thought I was selling Girl Scout cookies or something. He wasn't expecting that. Darren confirms that he was my mom's cocaine dealer or middleman. He also remembers her fondly.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  She was always the most friendly, a smiling person. Even when she was mad, she was always smiling. She was just really a nice person.

• 4:30Speaker 00

  But Darren says he's not sure what drugs my mom was or wasn't doing before her death.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I knew all the dealers, you know? Like I'm saying, but I've gotten a lot of stuff from people over the years, and no one's ever OD'd. So I do believe whatever she was doing besides that...

• 4:49Speaker 00

  It was from somebody else. Darren seems to have heard the overdose theory about my mom's death. At this point, that seems unlikely to me, based on the clean tox report and the house looking like a crime scene when my mom was found. But Darren doesn't need to know any of that. Either way, he seems on edge talking to me. I understand.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  That's why, I mean, you don't like to meet somebody and find out your mother OD'd when you were maybe...

• 5:15Speaker 00

  That's twice he's said that my mom overdosed. He also keeps reminding me it couldn't have been his drugs, because that had never happened before.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  And he did sell her cocaine.

• 5:26Speaker 00

  Joe Broadmeadow has a theory.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  And, you know, so there's going to be a... And in his mind, he's thinking, you know, he's thinking that he could still be charged with that kind of, you know, if she died of an overdose, then they can still charge me. You know, they don't realize how difficult those kind of cases are to prove, but they're paranoid. The drug dealer paranoid. You know, everybody is a cop. Everybody that's following him is a cop. You know, the cops are listening on the phone all the time. You know, if they stop to think about it for a second, you know, there's not enough cops in the world to listen to some two-bit drug dealer 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And believe me, I spent a lot of time on Wyatt Tabs, and, you know, they're tedious. They go on forever, you know? And it's listening to a lot of nonsense, you know, conversations that don't matter.

• 6:15Speaker 00

  That's such a good point. Darren is clearly freaked out by my being here, and while that makes me suspicious, we don't know the reason. Did you think that it was an accident, or did you ever think that it could have been something else?

• 6:29Speaker 01

  No, I don't think it was on purpose.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  You don't think so?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  What?

• 6:36Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  No, I know.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  I like saying like somebody gave her a purposely bad batch of shit. No, no, I don't believe that at all.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  We were all too friendly.

• 6:48Speaker 00

  And then Darren tells me how he found out that my mom had died.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  And then we went, we went to a, and my wife went to a concert. I was thinking all night. The next morning, somebody called me and said, "Lori died last night." I was like, "What?"

• 7:06Speaker 00

  Who told you? Who gave you the news?

• 7:09Speaker 01

  I thought it was Louise. I'm pretty sure. And I was like, "How the hell did that happen? What happened?"

• 7:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  I feel deep. And I was like, "Oh, my God." I didn't know if you know that.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  Of course it was Louise.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Well, I'm 99% sure that Louise was the one that called me, because she knew that I used to get your mother coke.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  Oh, so she was also probably like, "Hey, what did you give her?"

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  But we all were doing the same stuff, and I'm here, and you're not. You're here. You're here. She's not. Everybody's here.

• 7:45Speaker 00

  If it was a bad batch, you all would...

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Well, everybody, like, I believe it was a Friday night, matter of fact, and everybody would call me up and put in their orders.

• 7:57Speaker 00

  Got your own, like...

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Well, the thing is, is I'm thinking, geez, I was like, "Yeah, but she gave her regular coke, like we always did. We did our thing. Everybody went separate ways."

• 8:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  That night, I was saying, we took off, but now I was like, there was no heroin involved, not with me anyways.

• 8:12Speaker 00

  So Darren's saying he gave my mom cocaine less than 48 hours before she died, and Louise is the one who told him she was dead. But how did Louise know the day after it happened, when she was supposedly away in Florida the whole time? Who told Louise?

• 8:30Speaker 03

  Here's my thing. How it doesn't make sense.

• 8:33Speaker 00

  I'm trying to sort through Darren's story with my best friend, Ramona.

• 8:37Speaker 03

  Okay, if she's saying she was in Florida, that's great. She's in Florida when your mom dies. How does she... Now, there was no cell phones back then, okay? So I'll just say that. It was like landlines. Nobody knows what hotel you're at in Florida. So you're in Florida, there's no cell phones, right? Readily available, and she somehow is able to, the day after your mom died, contact and call all these people to tell them about your mom's death. Well, how do you know? If you're in Florida without a cellphone, without a way to contact people, how does she, number one, know that your mom died? Because like, who's calling her?

• 9:12Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:13Speaker 03

  From, if she's on vacation in Florida, how is she knowing? And then you're going to then just call everybody? Like, who's giving you the details? She had so many details the next day?

• 9:27Speaker 00

  I asked Darren about my mom's friend, Henry, the one Louise calls her "sugar daddy." Henry's the one who called police to check on my mom. He went to the house with an officer and discovered her body. He said like something about you had been there when they got into an argument or something like that, which I thought was... Henry's also the one who gave police Darren's name.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  I was involved with so many people, I might have met him. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the whole thing behind it.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  But it's weird.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  I don't want to put it on anybody, but how would you know that, how would you know what he knows?

• 10:04Speaker 00

  But that's, so here's the thing is...

• 10:06Speaker 01

  And now, he never told the cops, right? He gets a coke on his eyes, "Go see him."

• 10:12Speaker 00

  But that's, he did, though. That's the thing.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  They never gave it me.

• 10:16Speaker 00

  Now Darren is pointing the finger at Henry, just like my Aunt Allison did when I tried to talk to her about it. And Darren gives me some more info about himself back in 1993 that definitely gets my attention. Hey, guys. Okay, so part seven of my mom's cold case. When I post my TikTok about it, I don't name Darren. At the time my mom died, he was dealing with a manslaughter DUI case, where he'd struck and killed a man while driving drunk. He had a big sentence hanging over his head, and despite believing that he and his wife were among the last ones to see her alive, hit from police.

• 10:53Speaker 00

  Darren goes into more detail with me about this manslaughter case.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  So we were all in court, you know, and my wife got up and told everything. They didn't believe us. She was straight. She was straight as an arrow. She had eyes like a hawk, and even she's, she always saw it as just a blur.

• 11:16Speaker 00

  Darren's description of what happened is very different from what I find in my research about the case. First of all, it's no wonder that all Kim saw was a blur. This is what the Providence Journal reported about the case in January of 1991, referring to Darren by name and quoting a police report. "A pickup truck, being driven at 100 miles an hour after the driver allegedly tried to run down a state police trooper in East Providence, struck and killed a pedestrian crossing Route 195 in Providence Wednesday night." Interesting that Darren left out the bit about trying to run down a state trooper.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  The first deal they gave me was 10 to 15 years. This guy was drunk running across a highway out of drug city.

• 12:01Speaker 00

  And the police reports list his original offenses as manslaughter, eluding police first offense, DUI, death resulting, and too many more to list here.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  So they kept, they kept pleading by getting me down and down and down. I said, I'll do one year of home confinement. They said, you're not getting that. You're getting two and a half, maybe three. And I was like, well, whatever. But when, when, when they ever told me 10 to 15 years, I went, in court, I went, I'm not doing 10, 10 or 15 seconds.

• 12:32Speaker 00

  In the end, the Providence Journal reports in 1993 that Darren was sentenced to two and a half years of home confinement after pleading no contest to driving while intoxicated, resulting in a death.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  I was like, so you got one drunk asshole and another drunk asshole, and it's my fault? He's dead, you know?

• 12:51Speaker 00

  I steer us back to why I'm here. My mom's death.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  All right, then somebody else fucked her up because it wasn't me.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  When you left, she was fine.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Absolutely. That's what I'm saying. She was, she was just the way, when we left, she was just the way that she was when we walked in. What, what happened after that? Nobody knows what happened after that.

• 13:15Speaker 00

  Well, they know somebody else was in the apartment.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:19Speaker 00

  Well, I know someone else was in the apartment, at least. That person left the door open. They were in such a rush to get out of there. They left the water running in the bathroom sink.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Well, from what, again, from what I was told is she collapsed on the floor and that was it.

• 13:36Speaker 00

  Ugh, that's, well.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  Oh, I shouldn't say that. They found her on the floor. Apparently you were sitting with her or something like that, or you were in the crib or somewhere like that.

• 13:45Speaker 00

  Who did, do you remember where you heard that from, that's what you said?

• 13:48Speaker 01

  I absolutely remember. That's why you, you're kind of putting me on the spot.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  No, I, I apologize. I know. So, hold on a minute. Darren heard I was there? I was always told that I was at Allison's when all of this happened. At 18 months old, I was too young to recall it myself, but I really wish Darren could remember who he heard this from. Every time Louise and I talk about it, she confirms I was with Allison. So either she's been lying to me, which is obviously not out of the question, or it wasn't Louise who told Darren that part. But who else would it be?

• 14:25Speaker 01

  I couldn't tell you who was either, was coming over.

• 14:29Speaker 00

  But Darren steers us off the topic of me being there.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  I want to say it was some guy from New Hampshire.

• 14:37Speaker 00

  A guy from New Hampshire. Just like Louise said. Okay.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  Everything your mom used to say was this. I have a friend named Peter. He's older. He's coming down from New Hampshire.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  And, just like Aunt Allison said. Her new boyfriend, whose parents had a house in, what, New Hampshire? They all think my mom was going to be with a guy from New Hampshire. And yet, no one mentioned Peter to police.

• 15:05Speaker 04

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• 15:48Speaker 04

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• 16:28Speaker 00

  I was, I was shocked at how much he actually said to me and it was. I go over the rest of the almost 90-minute Darren encounter with Ramona. I mean, it was very helpful and I was grateful for it, but it was just like, wow, like, why would Louise have told me he didn't want to talk to me at all and then he had all of this to say? Was like, he didn't seem to have any kind of motive for anything. Like, he was like, yep, I brought her cocaine. Yep, y'all did coke together.

• 17:00Speaker 03

  Like a party person, you know?

• 17:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I, and he said, he's like, we did coke together that night and we were fine. And I was like, okay, like, I don't, I, I kind of thought that that had to be honest because it was like, why would you tell me about selling this woman an illegal drug, but then be like, yep, we were fine? Like, I just don't think he was the one who was behind my mom's death.

• 17:24Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:25Speaker 00

  Like, I think whatever happened was after he and his wife left.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 17:30Speaker 00

  Besides the million-dollar question of whether or not Louise was in Florida when my mom died, I cannot get over Darren saying he heard I was there in my crib.

• 17:40Speaker 05

  So that weekend your mom died, I remember my dad coming to get us. I had a baseball game.

• 17:49Speaker 00

  I talked to my brother Tommy again about the day my mom's body was found.

• 17:51Speaker 05

  It was like around 11 o'clock. Came and picked us up. He was a little late. Um, but it wasn't out of the ordinary for him being late. He always had something going on, some kind of work going on. So when he came and picked us up, we went to the house. We pulled up in front of the house. And I remember the big, long stairs going up to the front door and door being open. He went up all the stairs, walked in. My dad turned around and says, go get in the car. And after that, he said, you don't, you didn't see what you saw? You was like, just forget about what happens and let's go. Exactly what he says.

• 18:34Speaker 00

  What did you see at the top of the stairs?

• 18:37Speaker 05

  Well, I saw the house was trashed. I saw that you were, like, the crib in the living room on the side. Like, when you walk in the front door, you were on the right-hand side, on the side of the couch, which was an offset door to, I want to say there was an offset door to a bedroom over there. But you were over there and you were in the, in there.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  Okay, wait, what? Not only did my brother Tommy see the crime scene, he saw me in my crib? How is this the first time he's telling me this? He and Darren are the only ones who have said I was in the house when my mom died. Everyone else has maintained that I was with Allison for the week.

• 19:22Speaker 05

  Your mom was on the floor. My dad turned, wise a ghost, turned around, then get out the house, go downstairs and get in the car.

• 19:30Speaker 00

  When you saw her body, like, where was her body? Was she wearing clothes? Like, anything you remember about it?

• 19:38Speaker 05

  Um, she was in, I want to, it's, so she was in the kitchen and off to the right-hand side of the kitchen, there was a big table in the middle. And on the right-hand side, there's the bathroom. And she was on the floor, right there, on the floor. And all I could see was legs. And that was it. So, well, we really couldn't see much because as soon as we walked in the door, my dad looked over there, turned around. And I was at the top of the stairs and I was going in the door. He was like, turn around and go, let's, let's go.

• 20:13Speaker 00

  And you saw me in my crib? Like, I was in there?

• 20:17Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  Did he go in and like, take me out of there? Or he just was like, get the hell out of here?

• 20:24Speaker 05

  No, he was like, he was like, go downstairs, get in the car. And I want to say that you were, your, your mom's sister came and picked you up. It's all fuzzy because it's so long, but there was, it's just, I remember you being in there. I heard you cry. I looked over. Your mom's on the floor. My dad told me, get out, go downstairs. We went back downstairs. And I want to say that your, like Lori's sister came and picked you up.

• 21:03Speaker 05

  I remember my mom getting a phone call, like, that day after he dropped us off saying Lori's dead, Lori's dead, they killed her. That's all I, that's all I remember. From that day, from that weekend and after that, he never mentioned your mom again. Like, there was just like a ghost.

• 21:27Speaker 00

  Um, how old were you then, in 1993?

• 21:32Speaker 05

  16 years old. Oh, wait a minute. 93? Yeah, I was born in 77, so, yeah, 16.

• 21:44Speaker 00

  So you weren't a little kid then when you saw this?

• 21:48Speaker 05

  No.

• 21:51Speaker 00

  Did he ever, when your, when our father made that phone call and said Lori's dead, they killed her, did he ever say who "they" was?

• 22:02Speaker 05

  No. My mom never asked.

• 22:07Speaker 00

  Would things have been different if the police had talked to my brother or our father? Thomas Kelly, my bio dad, passed away, so we'll never know for sure what he knew.

• 22:18Speaker 00

  As I said, I was 18 months old, so I don't remember where I was or wasn't. But I do have a recurring nightmare. In it, I'm in my mom's apartment, behind bars, staring out. Suddenly, my mom runs toward me and then to the right. Someone is chasing behind her. They follow her out of sight. She screams, then all goes silent and dark. After what feels like forever, I see a sliver of light and several faces looking at me. Someone comes toward me and everything goes dark again. Could the bars have been my crib? And could the sliver of light be when my bio dad, Thomas, and his sons opened the door and saw me?

• 23:02Speaker 00

  It's impossible to explain exactly what it feels like, thinking I might have been trapped in my crib for hours while my mother was dying. Part of me feels numb. It's just so awful, my mind can't settle on any one emotion, so it just goes blank instead. Part of me feels angry, that anyone would leave my mom to die. That anyone would leave a woman to die and possibly in front of her infant child. Part of me wonders if it's even real. And maybe that's the reason why I feel so compelled to solve my mom's case. Because I was powerless to save her in 1993, but maybe now, all these years later, I have the power to change the way her story ends.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  And when it comes to Tommy's story, something is still nagging at me. In my mom's planners that we uncovered in my adopted dad's house, my mom had written in a July 1992 entry, quote, "Tommy's threats over Lori will settle soon." I know my mom and my bio dad, Thomas, were in a custody dispute over me. So I want to know, could my bio dad, Thomas, have been involved in my mom's death?

• 24:15Speaker 05

  No. No, not the way he looked and told us to get back downstairs.

• 24:20Speaker 00

  Tommy has no doubt in his mind.

• 24:23Speaker 05

  And my mom said he was emotional when he called, and he was crying and saying, "They killed her, they killed her." So he didn't know?

• 24:31Speaker 05

  So, I don't know what he heard, because that's around that time, after, like, after that happened, we didn't really see him every weekend anymore. It was just like every other weekend. And he went to my grandmother's house, and that's where he lived for a while.

• 24:53Speaker 00

  That's interesting. Um, it was just weird because it was like, I, I mean, obviously, everybody kept this from me. And then all of a sudden, in 2020, this woman, Louise, reached out to me. Do you remember her at all?

• 25:08Speaker 05

  Oh, yes. I remember her. I remember seeing her on the sidewalk.

• 25:13Speaker 00

  Where? At my mom's house?

• 25:15Speaker 05

  Yep. And she, she stated up and down that she was in Florida. I saw the lady. And she had, it was her and a man with a mustache. Don't know the man with the mustache. Knew her though, because she's been to Lori's house a few times when we were there. And I knew who she was. And she, we went back in the car, and she was coming up the sidewalk. Like, so on the right side of the house, that way, it was like a wraparound road, and she was walking up that street. And then all of a sudden, we got in the car, and that was it. Like, ambulance showed up, and we were gone.

• 25:56Speaker 00

  And that was the day that my mom was found?

• 25:59Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 25:59Speaker 00

  Okay. So she was, my mom was found on the Sunday. So, um...

• 26:07Speaker 05

  That's right, because I had baseball on Saturday. He picked us up Sunday morning.

• 26:12Speaker 00

  What is going on? Tommy is dropping bombs left and right. He says he saw Louise outside my mom's apartment the day she was found dead? Wasn't she in Florida? And who was the man with the mustache? It's not Darren, since he never had a mustache. I've never seen a mustached man in the photos I found of Louise at my dad's house. The only mustached man I've discovered connected to Louise was the cop buddy she named, who told her all the details about my mom's case. He's since passed away, so I can't track him down. So clearly, I need to talk to Louise. I wanted to ask you first, because the police had asked me, they were like, well,

• 26:56Speaker 00

  you know, have you come across like anybody who you think might be willing to speak about your mom? And I said, well, let me go back home and look through notes and like, I'll see what I've got. I didn't want to just give anybody's name on the spot, you know? Go ahead, go ahead. Obviously, this isn't true. I'm still trying to get the case reopened, but I just want to see what Louise will say.

• 27:16Speaker 00

  If they want, they do want to talk with people. If, would, would you talk with them about my mom? I feel like you know her better than anybody. Like... Yeah, I can talk about what I know about. No, I know, I know. You know, ask me anything private about Tommy. I don't know. I know her complaints with Tommy. When she was with Tommy, she wasn't around anybody. Tommy kept her secluded. Louise is really trying to point the finger at my bio dad, Thomas Kelly, here. I don't know why she's assuming the police would only want to ask her about Thomas's involvement and not anyone else's. Obviously, she was found naked, so they don't 100% know everything that happened, and they're not telling me everything that happened, but...

• 28:01Speaker 00

  Just, oh, just wait until it comes out, you know? But, you know, there's been so many people in your mother's life. Mm-hmm. You're not, you're not going to find one person that knows everything about Lori Malloy. No, exactly. But that's the thing. They think that they've got a whole bunch of people who know all little things. And now they've got a couple of people, apparently, who knew different things. Well, good luck with that, honey. No, I know. And that's, no, but that's why I say, like, I, I, so that's why I'm obviously going to you, because you, like, you knew her better than anyone. So that's why, like, I'm like, um... Lori and I were close, but we're talking when we were close. That was eighth grade,

• 28:45Speaker 00

  ninth grade, 10th grade. I think it was 10th grade, and around 10th grade, your mother decided she's hitchhiking to California. Do you see what I'm saying? So, see all those years between 10th grade, and then I graduated, I went to Florida, she wasn't there, I came home for a minute, she came with me to Florida for a minute, we stayed down there two weeks, and then she's gone, and you don't see Lori for eight, nine months. You know what I mean? No, I actually don't know what you mean, Louise. From the first day I spoke with Louise over a year ago, I've only heard her say she was my mom's very best friend in the world. How... I love Lori. Lori, me and Lori, listen to me, me and your mom was closer, closer than me and my own sister.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  That's from a call five months before this current conversation. But the second I tell Louise the police are interested in talking to her, which again, is just a test, suddenly she and my mom are practically strangers to one another. Yeah, I mean, I've been married, what, twice? You know, and we pop back into each other's lives, here and there, friends disappear.

• 29:56Speaker 04

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• 30:38Speaker 04

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• 31:22Speaker 04

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• 31:59Speaker 00

  In my mom's friend Rebecca's police statement from 1993, she tells them, quote, "This past Tuesday or Wednesday, I received a phone call from Lori at home." And that is the last time that Rebecca heard from my mom. I asked Louise about that. So that week, when you saw my mom, it was like, I remember you mentioning this, and I'm sorry that I don't remember the details. Yes. But I know you told me about it. It was like that Tuesday or that Wednesday or something, like the middle part of that week. Did she mention Becky or anything that day? Do you remember if Becky called her that day? Was, do you know if it was that Tuesday or that Wednesday? Because that's important, too.

• 32:42Speaker 00

  What, the day I, I wouldn't, honey, I don't know. The day what, the day I see?

• 32:47Speaker 03

  When she invited me to the party, what are you talking about?

• 32:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, that last day that you saw her, was that Tuesday or that Wednesday? I remember you mentioning this, but I forget if it was Tuesday or Wednesday. That's kind of important.

• 32:57Speaker 03

  Right now, right now, I don't recall. I don't recall.

• 33:00Speaker 00

  Damn. But either of those, so one of those two days you were with her.

• 33:05Speaker 03

  It had to be Wednesday, you know why?

• 33:07Speaker 00

  Why?

• 33:08Speaker 03

  Because what? Ready?

• 33:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:13Speaker 03

  You're gonna love me. Love me.

• 33:15Speaker 00

  And this is like, okay, so that Wednesday is the March 3rd.

• 33:19Speaker 03

  Listen, doesn't make a difference, listen.

• 33:21Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 33:21Speaker 03

  Back then, back then, my mother, my mother, she used to babysit for me two nights a week.

• 33:29Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:29Speaker 03

  Now, Lauren, listen to me.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  As long as I've had children, my mother always babysat Wednesday and Friday.

• 33:38Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 33:39Speaker 03

  Back to what you said, it was a fucking Wednesday.

• 33:45Speaker 00

  So back to the 1993 police statement. Rebecca said she thought she heard someone there with my mom. And now Louise is placing herself there on that same day. Rebecca also said about my mom, quote, "She sounded groggy to me and giggled a lot, and I thought that she was high on some drug. She continued to slur her words and I had trouble understanding what she was saying."

• 34:11Speaker 00

  When you were there with her that Wednesday, did she seem off to you at all?

• 34:15Speaker 03

  No, 100% normal and straight. 100% normal and straight.

• 34:20Speaker 00

  For clarity, Louise is saying my mom was 100% normal and straight.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  And that had to be you jumping around in the crib. Mama, mama. Oh, I can't wait to see. I'm gonna do it and show you how you used to do it.

• 34:34Speaker 00

  That's so funny.

• 34:35Speaker 03

  And it stuck in my head, you know, I could, uh, Laurie told me. And she goes, you know, every morning when Lauren wakes up, that's how she wakes me up to wake up your mother. That's how, she stands up on her crib and you could see her jumping up and down.

• 34:46Speaker 00

  So in the same conversation, Louise goes from only being close with my mom in middle school to knowing how I jumped up and down in my crib?

• 34:54Speaker 03

  You know, and mama, mama, I could, if you say mama, and your mom would think, nah, she sings it, it sounded like bow.

• 35:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  What did you say? But mama, I mean, great relationship, no. There's no fucking hinky pinky this, that, the other. I told you, Laurie was gonna hang you to freak out. You were gone, you were at I T, uh, fucking Allison's or Big Al's, you know?

• 35:18Speaker 00

  So I wasn't there that Wednesday when you saw her?

• 35:23Speaker 00

  Or was I?

• 35:26Speaker 00

  That last day you're with her?

• 35:27Speaker 03

  You had to be, you had to be there. On a Wednesday?

• 35:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  If you were with Allison, no, you would have been there.

• 35:35Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 35:35Speaker 03

  But it doesn't make a difference, honey. Why are you so obsessed with was you there?

• 35:39Speaker 00

  Just because I'm trying to figure out, so like, so you see her that Wednesday. I'm trying to figure out if I'm there or not, because when she was found, I don't believe that I was there at that point, but I'm trying to figure out.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  No, you were with Allison.

• 35:53Speaker 00

  I'd always been told that I was with Allison when my mom died and had been at Allison's for the entire week prior. Now Louise says I was with Allison at the time my mom died, but with my mom in the days leading up to it. If that's the case, then when did Allison come and get me? When you got the call about her, so you, all right, so you're either in Florida or you're coming back from, can you like walk me through, like, where are you when you get that call? What do they say to you? Like, did Henry call you? All that good stuff.

• 36:24Speaker 03

  I, I already, I already got home from Florida.

• 36:27Speaker 00

  Yep. Okay, so you did get home, okay.

• 36:29Speaker 03

  I got home from Florida and Big Al, your grandmother called me up and said Louise.

• 36:33Speaker 00

  Wait, how soon had you gotten back? So like, were you like driving home from the airport? Oh, no, there was no cell phones. So you were back, back?

• 36:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, I came in from Florida airplane.

• 36:45Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 36:45Speaker 03

  Someone in my family picked me up, brought me home. House phone rings, I don't know if it was that day, that night, or the next morning.

• 36:51Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 36:52Speaker 03

  And it was Big Al, and she said to me, Louise. I said, hi, Al, how's it going? She goes, you know, I tried to get in touch with Dory all week and I couldn't.

• 37:01Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:01Speaker 03

  I said, where's the baby? I'm a mother, best words out of my mouth, is gonna be where's the baby?

• 37:06Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 37:07Speaker 03

  And she goes, well, Allison, Allison had, Allison had the little girl. And she goes, I tried to call Dory, she wouldn't pick up. She was, I got very worried. She goes, I called Henry.

• 37:19Speaker 00

  That's weird. I didn't think my grandma knew Henry. The 1993 police reports have Allison saying that she called Henry. What did she, so this, like, she called, when did you, so?

• 37:32Speaker 03

  That's what I don't know. I don't know if that all went down Sunday night or, I don't know if Allison gave me that information Sunday evening or first thing Monday. If I had to guess, I would say first thing Monday.

• 37:42Speaker 00

  Was it Allison or was it Big Al?

• 37:45Speaker 03

  Big Al.

• 37:46Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. Um, okay, so she gets in touch with you. When did she tell you that my mom was, was gone?

• 37:53Speaker 03

  I guess on the phone, right down in there. Yeah.

• 37:57Speaker 00

  Oh, okay, so she called you, she said she tried to get in touch with her, she was worried.

• 38:01Speaker 03

  When did the cops, when did the cops find mommy, Saturday or Sunday?

• 38:04Speaker 00

  It was Sunday morning.

• 38:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, that makes sense. I'm gonna call Monday morning. I'll be your grandmother.

• 38:11Speaker 00

  This woman cannot keep her story straight to save her life. For more than a year, Louise has told me she was in Florida when my mom died. Now she's saying she just got back the day after my mom died. And within this one conversation, Louise can't decide if my Aunt Allison or my Grandma Alice called her with the news. It seems like she's leaning towards Alice, and my guess is so that she can maintain that she and Allison never were friends and don't talk. So I decide to test the water some more and tell her the police recently reached out to my half-brothers about my mom's case. So Tommy Kelly's sons, they reached out to them, and I guess one of them tried to say, they tried to say that you were there the day she died.

• 38:56Speaker 00

  Again, this isn't true. The information I have for my brothers is from talking to them myself. But I don't want Louise to know I have a relationship with them.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  Wait, hold on, you said the boy, Tommy Junior, said?

• 39:09Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 39:10Speaker 03

  He was where? Where'd you say he was? And I was there where?

• 39:13Speaker 00

  So what, well, I told you, he said that he was at the house and he saw you there that. My mom's apartment, when she was found.

• 39:20Speaker 03

  Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Your brother Tommy Junior?

• 39:24Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 39:24Speaker 03

  Is saying that he was at Lauren Malloy's apartment on North Earl Street?

• 39:28Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  The day she died, he was there.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  And he says you were there too? No shit, no shit.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  What the, did you ask him, what the fuck was you doing over there? He's pointing at himself, honey. Saying when Laurie was dead or found dead, he and I was there.

• 39:45Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 39:46Speaker 03

  So what was he doing there? I can't believe nobody told, what was you doing?

• 39:50Speaker 00

  I mean, the answer is simple. Our father brought him to my mom's place, but I don't tell this to Louise.

• 39:57Speaker 03

  I don't care, you talk about, oh, I was there with Louise. The day she was found or the day she got killed?

• 40:04Speaker 00

  The day, well, I mean, do you think it was different days?

• 40:10Speaker 03

  I don't know, ask him.

• 40:15Speaker 00

  Wow, a lot to unpack here. Remember that after our initial conversation over a year and a half ago, Louise backtracked on her initial bombshell that she knew my mom was murdered.

• 40:28Speaker 03

  You know, um,

• 40:31Speaker 03

  what went down, what went down with her was an accident. And you can take that to the fucking bank, it was an accident.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  But now she's asking which day my brother claimed she was at my mom's place, the day she was killed or the day she was found? So I guess she thinks my mom was murdered? And what would make her think that those were different days?

• 41:02Speaker 00

  Another month goes by. On September 21st, 2021, I finally hear back from the Attorney General's office after months of waiting to find out if they'll reopen my mom's case. The answer is no.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  He said to me, it could be a million other reasons that could be natural.

• 41:21Speaker 00

  Of course, I'm devastated. But I think you know by now that I'm not about to take this answer lying down.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  I, I don't wanna get your hopes up, that something's gonna, you know, something, that some answers are gonna be out there. I don't know if that's gonna happen or not.

• 41:38Speaker 00

  I mean, quite honestly, just to level with you, like, I'm not going to give up until I know how my mom died.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  This has been My Mom's Murder, an Audible original, produced by Audible and AYR Media and hosted by me, Lauren Malloy. Executive produced by MGM Television and Toluca Pictures. Executive producer for AYR Media, Aliza Rosen. Executive producer for Audible, Laura Regan-Kleinman. Executive producer for Toluca Pictures, Stacy Levin. Executive producers, Lauren Malloy and Chloe Grace Moretz. Produced and written by Michelle Simon. Edited and mixed by Tristan Bankston. Coordinator for AYR Media, Andy Levine. Audio engineering and mastering by Justin Longerbeam. Theme music by Jonathan Brooke.

• 42:39Speaker 00

  Legal counsel for AYR Media, Gianni Douglas. Head of creative development at Audible, Kate Navin. Chief content officer, Rachel Giatza. Copyright 2024 by AYR Media. Sound recording copyright 2024 by Audible Originals LLC.

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