346. The Bad Grandpa

On this episode, Garrett and Payton dive into the case of a grandpa who snapped and did the unthinkable. Links: Netflix Video Every Monday @11am PST, 12pm MST, 2pm EST 1pm CST https://www.netflix.com/murderwithmyhusband Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/murder-with-my-husband/id1508098400 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6GaodpBsSpBuUMhmEXhjK2?si=8ad6ec0368a94dbb Case sources: ABC News 5 Cleveland - https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-stark/husband-admits-to-undercover-officer-that-he-killed-his-wife-with-hammer-disposed-of-her-body CantonRep.com - https://www.cantonrep.com/story/news/local/hartville-lake/2018/08/27/bizarre-road-trip-case-ends/10246271007/ https://www.cantonrep.com/story/news/local/canton/2018/09/09/going-undercover-to-catch-killer/10246323007/ https://www.cantonrep.com/story/news/local/canton/2018/09/06/hartville-woman-s-dead-body/10826974007/ FindAGrave.com - https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/226096591/roberta_lee-snider FoxNews.com - https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/undercover-cop-ohio-man-reveal-wife-murder-doc InvestigationDiscovery.com - https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/crimefeed/murder/undercover-cop-uses-alter-ego-missy-to-capture-suspected-wife-killer NarrowPathInvestigations.com - https://narrowpathinvestigations.com/about/ News 5 Cleveland - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jZTu2z1dCE Stark Community Foundation - https://scf.fcsuite.com/erp/donate/create/fund?funit_id=3355 WashingtonPost.com - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/08/29/she-never-returned-from-a-trip-to-graceland-her-husband-told-three-stories-before-the-truth-emerged/ WBIR.com - https://www.wbir.com/article/news/crime/man-who-said-wife-died-on-trip-to-graceland-pleads-not-guilty-to-her-murder/51-545643972 WKYC.com - https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/crime/undercover-cop-catfished-hartville-man-into-confessing-to-wifes-murder/95-588090732 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Garrett Moreland?

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• 0:04Payton Moreland?

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• 0:37Garrett Moreland?

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• 0:48Payton Moreland?

  Honestly, like I said, I love my Jones Road products. I pair them all together because they sit seamlessly. And I highly recommend them and I know you will love them too.

• 0:59Garrett Moreland?

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• 1:28Speaker 02

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• 1:58Garrett Moreland?

  Hey guys, back again. Little intro, little bit more intimate, little different. We're just doing a little selfie intro right now. There's Daisy, there's Roan, there's Peyton. Yeah, what do we got?

• 2:14Payton Moreland?

  We are doing another old episode today, dropping it on our feed, but we did just wanna jump in and say hi. We probably should have done this on our actual camera, but you know what?

• 2:28Garrett Moreland?

  We forgot.

• 2:29Payton Moreland?

  No sleep here.

• 2:30Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, we forgot. It's too late. So here we are doing this. Um, thank you guys for being here. Thank you for supporting. I think we're gonna have a regular episode next week. Um, not sure. Might be the last week, might not be. We'll see. Kind of see how Peyton's feeling, um, how baby's doing, Daisy's sleeping. We love you guys. Thank you for supporting us and hope you guys enjoy this episode.

• 2:55Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. This is murder with my husband. I'm Payton Moreland.

• 3:03Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 3:04Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 3:05Garrett Moreland?

  I'm the husband. Welcome subscribers.

• 3:09Payton Moreland?

  Welcome. Top beautiful listeners.

• 3:14Garrett Moreland?

  One percent.

• 3:16Payton Moreland?

  You are so special.

• 3:19Garrett Moreland?

  Thanks, guys, for being here seriously and supporting us. Thank you for paying for bonus content and ad-free content. It helps us a lot. We appreciate it. Big part of the reason why we can continue to do this week after week. So thank you.

• 3:34Payton Moreland?

  We just really love you guys.

• 3:36Garrett Moreland?

  It's raining outside, a little cold, kind of nice though. Been wanting a little bit change of, of weather. I love the summers and I love the heat, but sometimes it's nice, you know, just to switch it up a little bit. Sometimes, I don't know, sometimes when I feel like it's hot day after hot day after hot day, I just, it's a lot. It's nice that winter's coming. Surprisingly, it hasn't snowed yet. Um, yeah, winter's coming. Peyton and I just, over the next couple of months, we'll be recording. I'll be making bagels, working on the bagel shop. Um, we'll see some family for the holidays. About it.

• 4:15Payton Moreland?

  I'm really hoping we can like stay home as much as possible.

• 4:20Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, holidays are always just a crazy time of year. I'm sure it's for those that visit family as well or have family that you see during the holidays. It's just, it's supposed to be relaxing and it's never relaxing.

• 4:33Payton Moreland?

  Garrett currently has family in two different states and my parents are in a different state and each of my siblings are in a different state. So we're just scattered.

• 4:44Garrett Moreland?

  Making it difficult. Um, yes, if you're watching on YouTube, I do look like Paulie D. Um, my hair is really fluffy right now. I don't know. I just, we got out of bed this morning. We've been doing some work in errands and I'm not gonna do my hair, so.

• 5:01Payton Moreland?

  Guys, like naturally, that's his hair. That's like how he wakes up.

• 5:06Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I wake up and it just looks like this. It's kind of crazy.

• 5:08Payton Moreland?

  You know, back in the day, how many guys had to practice over and over to get their hair to look like that?

• 5:14Garrett Moreland?

  In high school, I used to do this. I would just wake up.

• 5:17Payton Moreland?

  Go to school.

• 5:17Garrett Moreland?

  And go to school.

• 5:19Payton Moreland?

  It looks good.

• 5:20Garrett Moreland?

  Thanks. Thanks, babe.

• 5:23Payton Moreland?

  All right.

• 5:25Garrett Moreland?

  That's kind of what I got for my 10 seconds too. Um, I've been just working, um, working, playing pickleball. I have some burns on my hands from making bagels, which means I'm officially a baker. Peyton's actually been cooking more as well. You made two dinners this week.

• 5:42Payton Moreland?

  Yep.

• 5:43Garrett Moreland?

  That's a big deal in the Morland household.

• 5:45Payton Moreland?

  Not like HelloFresh, like actual.

• 5:47Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, like actual dinners.

• 5:49Payton Moreland?

  Dinners.

• 5:50Garrett Moreland?

  Anyways, I hope everyone enjoys this case. Um, let's get right into it. Yeah, here we go.

• 5:57Payton Moreland?

  Trigger warning, this episode contains discussions of attempted suicide, violence and murder, so please listen with care. Okay, do you ever think about evil? Like what really is evil? Is it a physical force? Is it more intimate, like a character flaw? Maybe like a crack in your soul? We treat evil like it's uniquely human, as if we're the only creatures on earth who are capable of being evil. But that kind of depends on how you define it. For instance, if you say murdering someone is evil, which personally I agree,

• 6:37Payton Moreland?

  then we're not alone because animals kill each other too and not always just to eat or survive. Sometimes they just kill each other because. And here's a fun fact, humans aren't even the most murderous species. And I'm talking like murderers and killing their own kind for no reason.

• 6:58Garrett Moreland?

  What is it?

• 6:59Payton Moreland?

  Meerkats.

• 7:02Garrett Moreland?

  Meerkats?

• 7:03Payton Moreland?

  Those cute little things. 20% of them are killed by their own kind for no reason.

• 7:11Garrett Moreland?

  Crap, okay.

• 7:13Payton Moreland?

  So are meerkats evil? Or does it just reveal a deeper truth? The evil is not so much an action, but an intention. And if that's the case, evil could lie dormant in someone for decades, maybe even an entire lifetime. They just don't act on it. But the twisted truth about who people are, if they do have evil lying dormant in them is it can be revealed. And that's what happens in today's case. The first signs came in January 2018 in the quaint town of Harville, Ohio. This is a village of about 3,000 residents between Akron and Canton.

• 7:59Payton Moreland?

  Now, 73-year-old Philip Snyder is beginning to act a little strange. 73, 2018. Philip and his wife, Roberta, had lived in Harville for about a decade. They had lived there ever since declaring bankruptcy and losing their previous home in 2008. And during their time in Harville, they had gotten to know some of the other residents. Locals knew that this older couple, specifically Philip, was a retired carpenter. And Roberta was a housewife and mother of two grown sons.

• 8:37Payton Moreland?

  The couple had been married for 53 years and no one in Harville had ever seen any signs of trouble between them. Nor had anyone noticed that either of them was ill. So it was strange when on January 3rd, 2018, Philip suddenly began telling people around town that Roberta, his wife, had cancer and she had one last wish in her old age. She wanted to go to Graceland before she died. And in case you're not familiar, Graceland is the name of a famous mansion in Memphis, Tennessee, once owned by the singer Elvis Presley.

• 9:20Payton Moreland?

  Now, Roberta was a lifelong Elvis fan, so it made sense that this is where she would want to go, which Memphis is about 725 miles from Harville. But the part about her having cancer and wanting to see it before she died, well, this is odd because no one knew she was sick, but they're old, locals don't pry, they just express their condolences and life goes on. Then on January 4th, something else strange happened with this family. Philip called local resident John Lapp to say that he and Roberta were leaving, that they were finally going to Graceland.

• 10:02Payton Moreland?

  They would be back in a few days. Now, why is this strange? John and Philip knew each other, but it's not like they were close. He just randomly calls this acquaintance up to tell him this. Philip and John were kind of regulars at the local Burger King. So that is kind of how they knew each other. They would just like go to this fast food joint and chat. Kind of like a local bar. A lot of older people went to this Burger King to do this. But just because you know someone at the bar doesn't mean you're gonna call them at home and be like, hey, by the way, me and my wife are leaving town.

• 10:37Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 10:37Payton Moreland?

  And in the years that they'd known each other, Philip and John had only spoken on the phone once. So why is Philip calling him now with this update? We might suspect the answer, but John, he just knew Philip was an old guy who hung out at Burger King, so he kind of writes it off. He's like, old people. He wishes them a good trip and said goodbye. And then three days passed. So it is now January 8th, which would have been Roberta's 70th birthday.

• 11:07Garrett Moreland?

  And somehow she is missing.

• 11:10Payton Moreland?

  Yes. So on his wife's birthday, Philip begins making more unsettling phone calls, this time to members of his and Roberta's family. He told Roberta's siblings, she was one of seven, by the way, as well as their sons, that he and Roberta had gone to Graceland. But just as they approached the mansion, he looked over and saw Roberta was unresponsive. And in that moment, Philip panicked. He tells his family unsure of what to do. He flagged down an ambulance in a restaurant parking lot. And the ambulance took her to the hospital, but it was too late and Roberta had died right outside of Graceland.

• 11:52Garrett Moreland?

  Wait. Okay, sorry. Keep going.

• 11:55Payton Moreland?

  So they're away from home. She dies. And then he tells his family, also, I just knew that she always wanted to be close to nature. So I actually had her cremated there and spread her ashes in the Tennessee River.

• 12:12Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 12:12Payton Moreland?

  So no family involved, no funeral.

• 12:15Garrett Moreland?

  This is insane.

• 12:16Payton Moreland?

  Now he's back home.

• 12:17Garrett Moreland?

  I think it's funny that people think they can get away with this stuff.

• 12:20Payton Moreland?

  And he's in his seventies.

• 12:23Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 12:23Payton Moreland?

  So the family's like, um, hello? Like, how did this? When? Where? How? What did she die of? What hospital did she go to? How could you just get her cremated without telling anyone? And the more they ask, the more confused Philip seems to be. He can't remember any names or details. He doesn't know the hospital. He doesn't know where he was when he flagged down the ambulance. And seeing his confusion, the family thought he's just old. He's probably showing signs of dementia. And just like Roberta's cancer, this also would be unexpected. So everything about this just worries the family.

• 13:06Payton Moreland?

  Not only was Philip acting like he was losing his memory, but it means that they couldn't verify anything about Roberta's death. All this could have just taken place in Philip's head. And if that was the case, Roberta could be anywhere. On January 9th, Roberta's brother decided to contact the Harville Police. And he told them, hey, Roberta and her husband went for a trip. He came back without her. He doesn't really remember anything. I think she might be missing. Maybe passed away, maybe in Memphis, Tennessee. Can you please help us track down and figure what happened? So police start looking into it and they soon find evidence that Philip's story was true, at least part of it.

• 13:50Payton Moreland?

  They found records of credit card purchases between Harville and Memphis, including a motel where Philip had rented a room on January 4th. But when investigators go to this motel and ask for the surveillance footage, they see Philip on camera checking into the room, but no Roberta. They also checked with all the ambulance services as well as hospitals and medical examiner's offices in the Memphis area. There was no record of Roberta. No incident could be found. So if she did die and she was cremated, he didn't go through official services.

• 14:29Garrett Moreland?

  Wait, hold on, timeout. You're telling me that there's places out there where you can cremate someone and it's not an official service?

• 14:35Payton Moreland?

  I don't think so. I think that he, that I meant that by he did it on his own.

• 14:40Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, okay. I thought there was like a black market for cremating people.

• 14:44Payton Moreland?

  No, I'm, I'm pretty sure everything has to be official with a death certificate.

• 14:49Garrett Moreland?

  Got it. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

• 14:50Payton Moreland?

  Actually, that's a good question. I wonder if it varies state to state or if it's like.

• 14:55Garrett Moreland?

  No, I'm sure.

• 14:56Payton Moreland?

  It goes through the medical examiner and then they ask you what you want to do. And the, and the medical examiner has like a way of doing it.

• 15:03Garrett Moreland?

  I don't know.

• 15:03Payton Moreland?

  That just popped up in my head of like.

• 15:05Garrett Moreland?

  I've never really had, I don't think anyone, I'm trying to think people in my family.

• 15:09Payton Moreland?

  Has gotten an autopsy?

• 15:11Garrett Moreland?

  I, well, I don't think anyone in my family that's passed away has been cremated.

• 15:15Payton Moreland?

  And not everyone gets an autopsy.

• 15:17Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, that as well. Has anyone in your family, was your, was your?

• 15:21Payton Moreland?

  No, no one's been, well, I'm sure my grandpa maybe was autopsied.

• 15:25Garrett Moreland?

  No, but cremated.

• 15:26Payton Moreland?

  Oh, no.

• 15:27Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah. Hmm. Okay. Interesting.

• 15:30Payton Moreland?

  I'm just like, where's the, is there like an official, like choose cremation this way? Choose this way. And then it's like, you follow the steps.

• 15:38Garrett Moreland?

  Definitely. It's definitely got to be done a certain way. Like not anyone can just. Yeah, correct.

• 15:44Payton Moreland?

  But there has to be like private service crematories.

• 15:47Garrett Moreland?

  Yes, yes, yes. But they have to be licensed.

• 15:50Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. Okay.

• 15:51Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 15:51Payton Moreland?

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• 16:35Payton Moreland?

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• 16:49Garrett Moreland?

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• 18:15Payton Moreland?

  And so a few days later, on January 14th, 2018, investigators go to Philip and they're like, hey, we understand that you're saying she died. The ambulance took her blah, blah, blah, but we have gone and looked into it just to make sure everything's okay. And there's no record of this. So what actually happened? Because the evidence isn't really matching up. And in response, Philip changed his story. He said, actually, Roberta had died long before they got to Memphis. It was on the road trip there between Columbus and Cincinnati. This is about 150 and 250 miles away from Harville, but still 500 miles from Graceland.

• 19:01Payton Moreland?

  So Philip, this round faced man with a little bald head and a halo of baby fine blonde hair, said he couldn't give up on Roberta's dream. So he had went anyways, all the way to Memphis, even though she was dead. He said he wrapped her body up in trash bags, put her in the back of the truck, drove to the motel where they had seen him on camera, left her dead body in the truck. Next morning, finished the drive to Memphis so that she could live out her dream. And then on the way back, knowing Roberta would want to be close to nature, he said he just stopped on a bridge over the Tennessee River and dropped her body into the water.

• 19:43Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 19:44Payton Moreland?

  Now, it's not exactly the official way of going about things, but old people do die suddenly. So for us, because we talk about this kind of thing all the time, we're kind of like, this is not normal. Normal alarm bells are ringing. For officials, they are too, but at the same time, they're looking at this quiet old man who could be suffering with dementia. He looks stressed. He's exhausted. They're not completely sure what they're dealing with. Are they just dealing with a man who had lost his wife on a road trip? Is old, not really in his right state of mind and just went about it the way he thought? Or is this something more sinister? Did this 70 year old man who had never shown signs of evil murder his wife?

• 20:30Garrett Moreland?

  I mean.

• 20:32Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I mean, it's not really I feel like about showing signs of evil as well because the amount of people that kill their significant others, just for insurance money, for jealousy happens all the time.

• 20:44Payton Moreland?

  So they spend the next several days, police do just trying to figure out this mystery. With help from several other law enforcement agencies, they scoured the area around the Tennessee River where Philip said he had left Roberta's body.

• 20:58Garrett Moreland?

  Crazy.

• 20:59Payton Moreland?

  Even with the help of search dogs, they couldn't find her. But a separate team in Harville did locate additional surveillance footage. They came up with a video of Philip at a gas station near his house. It was taken the day he left town. So based on either version of his story, Roberta should have been with him getting gas to leave on the road trip alive.

• 21:26Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 21:27Payton Moreland?

  But when they check the surveillance footage.

• 21:30Garrett Moreland?

  Baby, did you notice what you've been doing with the bone? The last like few minutes? That's so funny.

• 21:35Payton Moreland?

  But when they check the surveillance footage, she's missing from it again. So this blows Philip's second story out of the water. They go back to question him again. They're like, hey, okay, we tracked you down to the day you left. Your second story says she should still be alive and with you, and she's not. However, when they go to ask him about this, confront him with the news, they show up to his house trying to get a hold of him. And this is when they find Philip in the basement of his and Roberta's condo with a plastic bag over his head.

• 22:14Payton Moreland?

  He had tried to suffocate himself, but the police had showed up and found him before he could take his own life. So an ambulance rushed him to the hospital and investigators are like, what is going on? Did losing his wife push him to suicide? Is he feeling guilty? They don't know, but they get a warrant to search the condo. They took a cadaver dog through the property and down in the basement where Philip had tried to take his life, the dog sniffed out a red Rubbermaid container. Investigators found a bloody sweatshirt inside of it. They send it in for DNA testing and it comes back a match for Roberta.

• 22:58Payton Moreland?

  This was the closest they had come to an answer because now they have evidence showing her blood on a sweatshirt at home, completely contradicting ever leaving the house.

• 23:08Garrett Moreland?

  Something about killing older people too is really sad. I mean, he's killing everyone sad, but you know what I'm saying?

• 23:14Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. There's no chance to fight back.

• 23:18Garrett Moreland?

  But I mean, kids, no one really ever has a chance to fight back. It's so sad.

• 23:22Payton Moreland?

  So investigators are now convinced that Philip hadn't gone on this grand road trip with his wife as her one last wish, and she had died somewhere along the way. They think this old man had murdered his wife and made up a story to cover it.

• 23:39Garrett Moreland?

  Insane. That's so insane.

• 23:41Payton Moreland?

  Now, unfortunately for officials and for Roberta's friends and family, this suspicion doesn't really equal proof. They might believe that Philip had killed his wife of 53 years. They were still a long way from proving it. So as soon as Philip recovered from his suicide attempt, investigators go in to question him. This time he gives yet another story. He said his wife had died at home, not clear how. He still had his heart set on taking her to Graceland, so he wrapped her body up, put it in the bed of the truck, drove all the way to Memphis, disposed of her body in the river along the way. Officials are like, yeah, Philip, okay.

• 24:24Payton Moreland?

  They're convinced by now Philip is not suffering from dementia. They're like, he's flat out lying.

• 24:29Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 24:29Payton Moreland?

  Cause this just isn't making any sense. They give him a polygraph, he fails, but without a body or a murder weapon, there's little they can do. So weeks go by. It might have seemed to some like Philip was getting away with it, but then in March of 2018, investigators had a stroke of luck. Harville Police Chief Larry Dordia interviewed someone for a job. Her name was Joan Bauer. She had decades of experience in law enforcement, and as it turned out, many of those years, Joan had actually worked undercover. She was now 50 years old. She had recently decided she wanted to end her career the same way she started it, which was in uniform.

• 25:12Payton Moreland?

  So she applied for this job in Harville as a uniformed police officer and Chief Dordia had a different idea. During the interview, he's like, hey, Joan, actually we have this really strange case going on with this older couple. And although Joan had decided she was done with undercover work, she actually agrees to go undercover. So she gets hired on the premise of you're going to go undercover for us on this job.

• 25:39Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 25:39Payton Moreland?

  She spends several days surveilling Philip. He was out of the hospital by now. He'd moved out of his old condo and into an apartment, but he'd gone back to his same routine. He was going to Burger King every day in the morning. And Joan noticed that although Philip was familiar with the regulars, they all were kind of ignoring him in the morning at Burger King. People were kind of just not really talking to him anymore. And she believes it was because of the rumors about his wife's death. She thought he looked lonely and the best way to connect would be to pose as a fresh friend who is interested in a friendship with him. So she creates a cover identity. Joan becomes Melissa or Missy for short.

• 26:24Payton Moreland?

  She's middle aged, recently divorced, mother of two grown kids. She's in this new town. She had moved there to take care of her sick mother. None of this is real, by the way, it's just her story. But a key part of Missy's story that she was going to tell Philip was that she could not stand her mom that she was having to take care of. That her mom was an old lady who was mean and hateful.

• 26:46Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 26:47Payton Moreland?

  Missy resented taking care of her mother.

• 26:49Garrett Moreland?

  And they're going to try to get him to want to kill her?

• 26:53Payton Moreland?

  I mean, Miss, this is, this is, this is Joan's.

• 26:57Garrett Moreland?

  This is crazy. Yeah, no, this is good.

• 26:59Payton Moreland?

  So.

• 26:59Garrett Moreland?

  Not good, but good.

• 27:01Payton Moreland?

  Missy also is friendly, outgoing. She's not judgmental. She's the type of woman who had seen it all, done it all. She didn't judge others for doing what they had done and she hated her mom. This is exactly the type of friend who might appeal to a murderer. So on March 23rd, 2018, Missy, for clarity's sake, I'm going to keep referring to her as her cover name during her cover. So you know that she's like in character. Missy makes her first appearance at Burger King. She wasn't much to look at. She came in a sweatshirt, no makeup, messy hair, but she's charming. She chats up several of the regulars, tells them her story. Philip sees her, but he doesn't talk to her. So Missy just lets him be. The next day she goes back, same thing, day after that, the same.

• 27:45Payton Moreland?

  Eventually though, Philip started to thaw. He acknowledged Missy's presence just with a nod or a hello. But that was all Missy needed to strike up a conversation. She begins talking to him about her life, her story. Philip would listen, offer advice. Little by little, Missy started asking him in return. She like points out his wedding ring, which he's still wearing. She asks about his wife. Philip says he doesn't want to talk about her and Missy's like, yeah, that's good. Again, she's backing off so that he would feel safe and want to open up to her. So pretty soon he does.

• 28:24Garrett Moreland?

  No way this works. This is crazy.

• 28:25Payton Moreland?

  He tells Missy that Roberta had recently died and the police thought he had something to do with it. Missy's curious, but not judgmental. She kind of like hints that if he was involved, she would get it. I mean, sometimes she wishes her own mother was dead. So intrigued by this admission, Philip starts to treat her as a friend. It's like he'd found a kindred spirit, someone he could talk to about anything and Missy would understand. Soon they start meeting one-on-one. Philip suggested they meet in other towns, just in case the cops are watching him. Missy's like, yeah, that's fine. They moved from Burger King to other fast food joints. They would sit in a booth, they would get refills, play cards.

• 29:10Payton Moreland?

  Missy would ask about Roberta, Philip would ask about Missy's mom. Then they talk about the weather. I mean, it seems like an innocent friendship, but Missy is constantly low key pressing Philip for the truth. And at the same time, he was angling for the truth about her. And this was a major problem because neither of these friends are who they seem. And then one day, one of their typical meetings, it becomes clear to Missy, who has worked undercover for a long time. Okay. In one of these meetings, it becomes clear to her that Philip might be on to her, that she is lying.

• 29:47Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 29:48Payton Moreland?

  So.

• 29:50Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, how did he find this out?

• 29:51Payton Moreland?

  Well, it, it came with the fact that like she had been not working undercover for so long and then immediately jumped back in. She would make like rookie mistakes, if you will, just because she was out of practice. Like one day she sits down for coffee and she accidentally still had her wedding ring on. She'd forgotten to take it off. She'd told Philip she was divorced. So naturally he's like, why are you wearing your ring? She's like, oh, it's a ring from a former marriage. I'm going to pawn it. She'd worn it to ask Philip what he thought it might be worth. And this is kind of something that Missy had picked up on Philip was that he loved to give advice. He loved to act like he knew a lot about any subject. It made him feel good.

• 30:35Payton Moreland?

  And so Philip lets the ring like incident pass. He doesn't really bring it up, but later he asked Missy if she was working with the police. She makes a joke about, she's like, no, I'm actually working for the CIA. They both laugh, they move on, but not long after he says it again, hey, are you sure you're not working with the police? And this time Missy goes to self-deprecation. She's like, me? Do I look like I'm looking for the police? Do I look like a police officer? But Missy wasn't sure that his suspicions had really subsided. It's not good when you're working undercover and the subject is like constantly questioning if you're with the police. I mean, this man obviously knew how to hide things. He had lived with a woman for 53 years before apparently killing her.

• 31:19Payton Moreland?

  So this was not a man you wanted to turn your back on. And Missy was running out of time because Philip was kind of trying to get more involved in her life.

• 31:29Garrett Moreland?

  He's trying to figure out if it's easier to kill someone than you think it is, or if you just rather if, or, or if you just really never know somebody.

• 31:38Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 31:38Garrett Moreland?

  It's how do you live with someone for 50 plus years and then kill them?

• 31:45Garrett Moreland?

  Just mind blowing to me. It does not make sense.

• 31:50Payton Moreland?

  You know how um when you see an old couple who's still together, oftentimes there's this stereotype that they're old and grumpy and like

• 31:59Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 32:00Payton Moreland?

  Are like playfully mean to each other. It's like, what if they're not playfully mean? What if just after fifty years, it's like, I can't stand this person anymore.

• 32:08Garrett Moreland?

  And that's sad. It's sad.

• 32:10Payton Moreland?

  Cause like, why is that such a common stereotype?

• 32:13Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, it is. There is, I feel like for a lot of, I mean, there is some where they're very loving. But yeah, I feel like there is a lot where they're mean to each other, they're grumpy. Yeah.

• 32:23Payton Moreland?

  I've always known I should be strength training, but I never knew what to do, like what exercises, how many sets, how do I actually get stronger? But that's exactly what the ladder app does for you. Ladder is an expert strength training plan, not a content library. These aren't influencer workouts or challenges. It's real progressive programming designed by certified coaches.

• 32:46Garrett Moreland?

  You get a new plan every week that builds on the last, the workouts connect. Each week progresses from the one before through structured training blocks.

• 32:55Payton Moreland?

  It also works for any strength training style you prefer. Honestly, the gym has been very intimidating to me in my adult life. And so that's why I love ladder, because I can kind of take the guesswork out of it. Just rely on ladder to do the hard part for me.

• 33:09Garrett Moreland?

  Remove the guesswork of ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout. No thinking, everything planned for you. If you have an iPhone, head to ladder dot fit slash husband and take a quick quiz to find your perfect ladder plan. Use our link and get a free seven day trial with no credit card and $10 off your first month if you join.

• 33:31Payton Moreland?

  As you guys know, I was just at a hospital stay. And what do you think I wore the entire time after giving birth and taking care of my new baby?

• 33:41Garrett Moreland?

  I know.

• 33:42Payton Moreland?

  What?

• 33:43Garrett Moreland?

  Diapers.

• 33:45Payton Moreland?

  I wore my Skims sleep soft lounge sets, cotton fleece sets. Honestly, they are the most comfortable thing and I had to bring them to the hospital.

• 33:56Garrett Moreland?

  They're amazing. Skims is, Skims is the best. Come on.

• 33:59Payton Moreland?

  Ah, their sleep sets are just the perfect way. They stay cool. They're such great quality. There's something about just having nice pajamas or loungewear that makes you feel put together, especially at a time like where I am in postpartum. You guys know how much we love Skims. Again, I have really been into their sleep soft lounge and cotton fleece sets. I got the cutest like chocolate fleece set that says Skims is really cute. I think I posted about it on my Instagram. So you have to go check it out. Shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. And after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you, select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.

• 34:43Payton Moreland?

  Again, that's after you've already checked out. Please take the extra step of letting them know Murder with My Husband sent you. And if you're looking for the perfect gifts for everyone on your list, the Skims holiday shop is now open at skims.com. So um, she's like, I'm running out of time because he's trying to go see her mother with her. This mother doesn't exist. So she meets up with him again and she's trying to like get him to say something before she runs out of time because she can't take him to his mother. They're playing cards and Missy just straight up admits to him, I kind of want to kill my mom.

• 35:19Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh.

• 35:20Payton Moreland?

  She's like, I kind of want to do it. I just don't know how to get away with it. And just like she hoped, Philip jumps in with the advice. He very casually says, there are ways.

• 35:30Payton Moreland?

  And Missy's like, like what? Philip hesitated, but now it's too late. He'd given her an opening and that was all Missy needed. She starts pushing him relentlessly. Okay. Well, what do you know? Like, how can I do this? He kind of sits on it for a few days. And then on April 20th, three and a half months after Roberta's disappearance, Missy went to meet Philip at a McDonald's in Kent. This is about 15 miles away.

• 35:54Garrett Moreland?

  I assume she's wired up.

• 35:56Payton Moreland?

  Turns on her recorder, heads inside, determined that this is the day she's going to get him talking about it. She would get the truth and she, she was going to do whatever she could. So Philip greets Missy with a little cheerful little greetings. He says, hey, little girl, like they'd been friends forever. Missy gets her coffee, joins him. They played Kings in the corner. It's a card game. Um, and as they play, they chat about this and that, the McDonald's app's not working. Cute kids with their Happy Meals. But the conversation circles back to murder. Philip has said, you know, there are ways to do it undetected. She's like, how? Philip's kind of talking vaguely about it. Could smother her in her sleep. Missy's like, okay, is that what he did to his wife?

• 36:39Payton Moreland?

  Philip gets edgy. He's like, why, why is she pushing so hard? Cause and then Missy's like, I just, I need to get rid of my mom.

• 36:48Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 36:49Payton Moreland?

  Then Philip says, I have a bizarre idea. And she's like, I love bizarre ideas. At this point, Philip warmed by her enthusiasm says, you should marry me. And Missy's shocked. Despite years of undercover work, she did not see this coming. She'd gone way out of her way to make herself seem unattractive, uninterested. This wasn't just to protect herself. Missy knew that if this case went to court, if there was any hint that she had lured him sexually, it could get thrown out because that would be entrapment. So she'd been clear from day one. She wasn't looking for romance. So he quickly says, no, no, it's just a marriage of convenience.

• 37:31Payton Moreland?

  Spouses don't have to testify against each other in Ohio. So he's basically like, look, I'll tell you the truth. I'll help you do this, but you have to marry me so that neither of us can testify against each other.

• 37:44Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap.

• 37:45Payton Moreland?

  Missy knows she's on thin ice. So she skates faster. She leans all the way in and she's like, you're going to tell me what happened, aren't you? And Philip resisted. He said, I can't, not until we're married. She's like, fine. But in the time they'd known each other, which was less than a month, she had revealed a lot of private things. If she and Philip were going to continue seeing each other, she needed him to do the same. She, she wanted the truth. So she tells him that. And then he said, can you imagine a hammer like this big, this big around? Like a mallet, she says? He says, yes. And then he says, this is just a scenario. He goes, say I bonked my wife on the head

• 38:30Payton Moreland?

  and her tongue came out and I put a bag over her head and the blood went on the pillow, like a pillow you would lay on, on the couch. Missy's like, like a throw pillow. He's like, yes, exactly. A throw pillow. He starts giving her a play by play of what he had done to his wife.

• 38:48Garrett Moreland?

  That is okay.

• 38:50Payton Moreland?

  He said, back on January 2nd, he and her had gotten into an argument. He didn't say what it was about, but that they went to bed angry. Philip slept in the bedroom. Roberta slept in the living room. And then the next morning, January 3rd, he went to get coffee at Burger King. When he got back, Roberta was still asleep on the love seat. He walked in and was like, I'm going to kill her. He laid a cloth gently over her head. He, he emphasized gently, like he like shows her with his hands, like he was teaching her how to knead dough. Like he was like gently. He then took a two pound steak hammer and hit Roberta in the head with it twice. That was all it took. Cover up however, was harder.

• 39:34Payton Moreland?

  Philip had to put the throw pillow in a plastic bag. He then put that in a Rubbermaid container. He put Roberta's body in a separate container. And he put all that in the bed of his truck, used a particular type of cloth to clean it up. Kind you would use to wash your car. He dumped all the evidence in different locations. And then he finishes it by saying, I don't even know why I'm telling you this. And Missy goes, well, it must feel good to tell somebody. But there was one thing she wanted to know. After all these years of marriage, why do you walk in the door and decide to kill her? Like, why did you snap?

• 40:09Garrett Moreland?

  Insane.

• 40:10Payton Moreland?

  He thinks for a second and says, I didn't snap. Says, I just didn't feel anything. I was just kind of numb. She's like, okay, I gotta go. She and Philip say goodbye. He kisses her on the cheek. Um, and then Missy drives away.

• 40:28Garrett Moreland?

  She did it. It's over.

• 40:29Payton Moreland?

  Yep. At around 3pm that same day, Chief Dordia finds Philip at the local Burger King. Dordia had questioned Philip several times. So Philip knows who this is. They exchange greetings and Chief Dordia is like, great, you're under arrest. He was charged with aggravated murder, tampering with evidence and gross abuse of a corpse.

• 40:50Garrett Moreland?

  Dude, imagine how mad he is that he, I mean, he confessed.

• 40:55Payton Moreland?

  Seventy-three year old man held on $5 million bail. Uh, it's safe to say Philip and Roberta's family members weren't exactly surprised when they found out Philip had been arrested because at this point they just kind of suspected. They had a hard time believing it, but I mean, who else would have done this? He decides to make a deal. He offered to show investigators where he'd left Roberta's body, plead guilty in exchange for life with possibility of parole in 20 years.

• 41:23Garrett Moreland?

  Dude, he's 73. Like at that point.

• 41:27Payton Moreland?

  Nine months after the murder, Philip takes a second road trip toward Memphis. He's in an unmarked police cruiser. And in a later interview, Philip makes it pretty clear that he knows Missy was the one who turned him in. He was like, I confessed to her and she was working with you guys, obviously. And she's actually in a separate vehicle following him and he doesn't know this, but she's also going on this little road trip. They drive across state lines. Philip spots a bar and grill. He's like, pull over. He points out a dumpster and he's like, this is where I left her remains. So the next morning, Missy and others go to a landfill to try to see.

• 42:06Garrett Moreland?

  There's no way.

• 42:07Payton Moreland?

  I mean, it's gigantic.

• 42:09Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 42:09Payton Moreland?

  Even if the crime had been committed yesterday, it would be impossible to find. It would take weeks and the search would cost a hundred thousand dollars. And sadly, no one is able to pay for this. So together, the family and officials decide it's just the end of the road.

• 42:26Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, that's so sad.

• 42:27Payton Moreland?

  And the best thing for all involved in the crime would be to believe that this is where he had left her. As for Missy, she was proud of what she had done. She was kind of haunted though by the loose ends. Philip really never said why he killed her. And everyone in the case, like literally everyone can't help but think, even if you've known someone for 50 years, you never really know them. You can't see what's going on in their minds. And evil can be everywhere. I mean, this man just walked in while his wife was asleep and hit her in the head with a hammer.

• 43:03Garrett Moreland?

  Like, is he insane? Was he crazy?

• 43:05Payton Moreland?

  And that is the case of Roberta Snyder.

• 43:08Garrett Moreland?

  It just doesn't make any sense. It's not like, it doesn't sound like he really wanted to go sleep around as well. He would just killed his wife.

• 43:15Payton Moreland?

  They got in a fight.

• 43:16Garrett Moreland?

  So confusing. That's so sad. Okay.

• 43:21Payton Moreland?

  All right, you guys, that was our bonus episode. We have a regular one coming out next. So stay tuned and we'll see you then. I love it.

• 43:30Garrett Moreland?

  I hate it.

• 43:31Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.

• 43:39Speaker 03

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