314. The Trap She Never Saw Coming - The Murder of Bonnie Woodward

On this episode, Payton and Garrett dive into the case of Bonnie Woodward. When her daughter runs away and suddenly goes missing, concern quickly turns into panic. But just as the search begins, Bonnie herself vanishes, leaving behind more questions than answers. Links: Netflix Video Every Monday @11am PST, 12pm MST, 2pm EST 1pm CST https://www.netflix.com/murderwithmyhusband Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources: ABCNews.go.com - https://abcnews.go.com/US/killed-husbands-words-crack-decade-murder-missing-nurses/story?id=122348751 TheTelegraph.com - https://www.thetelegraph.com/news/article/bonnie-woodward-case-2020-facts-20351564.php GoodMorningAmerica.com - https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news/story/killed-husbands-words-crack-decade-murder-missing-nurses-122348751 KSDK.com - https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/bonnie-woodward-murder-man-sentenced-illinois/63-c0b2920d-f332-48e8-832b-39c0e205aca0 MyJournalCourier.com - https://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/article/Defendant-in-murder-case-told-wife-he-was-15128368.php Fox2Now.com - https://fox2now.com/news/illinois/jerseyville-man-sentenced-65-years-for-2010-cold-case-murder-testimony-from-suspects-son-proved-critical/ Medium.com - https://medium.com/@grantbjork92/illinois-missing-person-cold-case-ends-with-homicide-conviction-3dcee363c44f TheCinemaholic.com - https://thecinemaholic.com/bonnie-woodwards-murder-where-are-heather-woodward-and-roger-carroll-now/ UnionBulletin.com - https://www.union-bulletin.com/8-years-later-charges-filed-in-woman-s-disappearance-death/article_300fa467-0225-521b-ba4f-0a72fcc1aeb1.html Belleville News-Democrat - https://www.bnd.com/news/local/article209696309.html Pod.wave.co - https://pod.wave.co/podcast/2020/i-have-killed-for-you ABC.com - https://abc.com/episode/b499c793-9eda-4875-9b93-554edd573540/playlist/PL551127435 ILCourtsAudio - https://ilcourtsaudio.blob.core.windows.net/antilles-resources/resources/cdb9a4a2-bfb1-40c8-a6e5-cad2192b781a/4200491_R23.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with my Husband. I'm Peyton Merlin.

• 0:08Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Merlin.

• 0:09Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 0:09Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband. Happy Monday. Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. I guess that's it, right? Listening, watching. That's all we got. We don't really have any announcements this week. So I think I'm gonna get right into my 10 seconds and if you want to skip it, you can skip it. It won't be too long, but we had to take Daisy to the vet. And it was pretty scary and we thought she was dying. She's alive and she's well and we're still trying to figure out what's going on. So we need to make a vet appointment to, I don't know, like dig further into what's happening with her. A quick little summary is that I was in the room. Daisy came running in and she was,

• 0:55Garrett Moreland?

  what we've now figured out is like a form of inward sneezing. Like she was inward sneezing, but it sounded like she was gasping for air. We thought she was choking on something. We weren't sure what was happening. We took her to the vet and it was kind of getting worse and worse.

• 1:10Payton Moreland?

  And we took her to the ER.

• 1:11Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, sorry. We took her to the 24 hour ER. It was late at night. We didn't get home till like 1 a.m. But she was doing things she's never done before. She was like pawing at her face, pawing at her ears. She was doing the inward sneezing. I would, I don't even know how to mimic it. It was crazy.

• 1:29Payton Moreland?

  And she was in distress.

• 1:30Garrett Moreland?

  She was freaking out, complete distress.

• 1:32Payton Moreland?

  Her whole body was shaking. I think she might've been having an allergic reaction to something. At first, we thought she was choking because it's like, it's like a, yeah, over and over again.

• 1:45Garrett Moreland?

  Don't replay that.

• 1:46Payton Moreland?

  Which I guess it is a form of them trying to like clear their airways.

• 1:52Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, it was, we took her to the ER. We had them do a bunch of different tests. They didn't, they honestly didn't know what was going on either, which didn't make me feel great. Now that I look back, I'm like, how did?

• 2:02Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, they were kind of just like, well, she's she's breathing now.

• 2:06Garrett Moreland?

  Like, okay, I mean, so am I, but.

• 2:09Payton Moreland?

  But then we took her home and then the next night it happened.

• 2:12Garrett Moreland?

  Happened again, no, happened again at eight P M. And then again at three A M. The same exact thing.

• 2:18Payton Moreland?

  She like woke us up in a panic.

• 2:20Garrett Moreland?

  But this time she was super itchy.

• 2:22Payton Moreland?

  And this is what's so sad is like, it's not like she's just doing this, like she's so clearly in distress. She's waking us up.

• 2:30Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, she isn't.

• 2:31Payton Moreland?

  Crying.

• 2:32Garrett Moreland?

  She doesn't do this normally, like this is something she was, she wouldn't just wake us up and cry.

• 2:36Payton Moreland?

  And when she came, she was sitting in the living room alone. And when she came running into Garrett, the first time she had her tail in between her legs.

• 2:43Garrett Moreland?

  And she was freaking out.

• 2:46Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, it's more the way she's acting that.

• 2:49Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah. And then when it happened again, like she was super itchy this time, she was clearly uncomfortable, not happy. Um, it took about eight, it took about two hours for it to go away. And then when it happened again at three A M, it took about thirty minutes. And then it hasn't happened since. So it happened for two days, hasn't happened again. The only thing we can assume is it was an allergic reaction and yeah, she's okay right now. Anyways, this is live, we're figuring it out. Don't want to ramble too much, but it was pretty scary. So that's what I got for my ten seconds. Um, still have my hair, I haven't buzzed it yet. Right? It's crazy. I got this hair transplant because I like my hair a lot.

• 3:29Garrett Moreland?

  And I was losing it really fast and it it made a huge difference. Crazy. For those who don't know, I got a hair transplant. For those who might be new to the podcast, my hairline's crisp, even, amazing. I recommend it. If you want to get a hair transplant, go for it. Don't see why not. But yeah, but now I'm at the point where like I have a lot of hair and I want to buzz it just because it's getting hot.

• 3:51Payton Moreland?

  Also, if you're watching, that's his natural, his hair naturally goes like that.

• 3:56Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, my natural, my, the problem, my hair naturally just puffs up like this too. It's crazy.

• 4:00Payton Moreland?

  Sometimes, like we've had a couple of comments of people being like, why is Garrett doing his hair like that? That's how he.

• 4:04Garrett Moreland?

  No.

• 4:05Payton Moreland?

  wakes up. That's how his hair naturally sits. He has no product in it.

• 4:08Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I get.

• 4:11Garrett Moreland?

  I literally get out of bed and my hair look, my hair just looks like this. I don't know. I don't know. What can I do? Anyways.

• 4:21Garrett Moreland?

  Anyway, so I might buzz it. I don't know. I just need a, I just need a shorter for a second. And I want to see how good my hairline looks, you know?

• 4:28Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 4:28Garrett Moreland?

  I got a hair transplant. That's what I'm rambling about today. We have a case for you guys. So we're going to hop right into today's case.

• 4:37Payton Moreland?

  Our sources for this episode are abcnews.go.com, the telegraph.com, good morning america.com, ksdk.com, my journal courier.com, fox two now.com, medium.com, the cinema holic.com, union bulletin.com, Belleville news, democrat, pod dot wave.co, abc.com and IL courts audio. We say that we would do anything for the ones that we love, whether that's a pet, a partner, a child. Now luckily, most of us have never had to test the limits of what that really means. But when you're in a situation where someone or something you love is in danger, I think most of us would find that we're capable of a lot more than we ever thought possible.

• 5:22Payton Moreland?

  Because there's just something instinctual, even primal inside each of us. Something that takes over when a loved one is threatened. So today I want you to ask yourself, how far would you go to save a loved one that might be in danger? Would you walk straight into the lion's den into the hands of another predator? And would you be willing to risk your own life to save someone that you love?

• 5:48Garrett Moreland?

  I, it's a good question because I feel like, I feel like I do some crazy shits. I feel like I'd be nuts, you know, like John Wick, like I'd be nuts, but maybe not. I don't know. Anyways, I don't know. Yeah. But let us know what you would do in, on Instagram or somewhere.

• 6:10Payton Moreland?

  Today I want to take you to a little town located on the Mississippi and Illinois River. A place with a lot of history and a vibrant social scene called Alton, Illinois.

• 6:24Payton Moreland?

  And it is here in 2010 that a 47 year old grandmother named Bonnie Woodward is quietly living out her life. Now Bonnie's had quite this story so far to the year 2010. She has two grown children from her first marriage, Joseph and Jennifer, and Jennifer actually still lives with Bonnie with her two little girls. Bonnie is also the mom to two stepkids from her third marriage, and those stepkids are 17 year old Heather and her brother Aaron, who is living with a disability. And plus Bonnie herself is a breast cancer survivor.

• 7:08Payton Moreland?

  So just to recap, it is 2010, 47 year old Bonnie is living in Illinois, and she has a lot of people living in her home with her, her daughter Jennifer and her two little kids, and then also her two stepchildren, 17 year old Heather and her brother Aaron. Bonnie is pretty used to putting her own needs aside and being the caretaker because she came from a family of nine siblings. So she always knew what it meant to rely on herself. But that also taught Bonnie how to stand out. Those who knew her said she had a huge, larger-than-life

• 7:47Payton Moreland?

  personality, that her house was the place the extended family always congregated, that she loved to host, she loved to nurture, which makes even more sense when you hear what Bonnie did for a living. She had worked for the past 27 years as an aide at a nursing home in town. So both her professional and her personal life was all about taking care of other people. And luckily, she did have one person that she could lean on in times of need at this point, and that was her live-in boyfriend, Gary Wilmeth.

• 8:27Payton Moreland?

  Which was important because things weren't all smooth sailing in their pretty packed home. So this sort of pieced together family had been struggling with how to manage the 17 year old who lived with them, Heather. See Heather's dad, this is Bonnie's third husband, had passed away suddenly back in July of 2000 when Heather was just eight years old. So by that point Heather wasn't in touch with her biological mother, so for most of her life Bonnie had played that role. And she actually adopted Heather and her brother Aaron not long after their father, her third husband passed away.

• 9:13Payton Moreland?

  But those who knew the family said Bonnie treated Aaron and Heather no different than her own two kids. She worked hard to give them the same opportunities, the same life, and she really dedicated herself to taking care of Aaron, who as I mentioned was living with a disability. But like any teenager, Heather at 17 had been unhappy living in this packed house for some time. She had run away from home on a couple of occasions. She always came back, at least until around June 10th, 2010. It was this time after another argument that Heather stormed out of Bonnie's house

• 9:55Payton Moreland?

  and said she was going to stay with a teacher, a woman named Christine Shuffle. And by June 25th Heather still had not come home, so she left on June 10th. 15 days later, she still had not come home and this was very clearly wearing on Bonnie. Still, she put on a brave face. She continued to go to work to care for her patients. And then that Friday afternoon on the 25th Bonnie had a staff meeting from 2 to 3pm. Then she was planning to leave right after to head home for the weekend. So she punched out around 3pm that day and coworkers saw her go to the parking lot

• 10:38Payton Moreland?

  to her red Chevy Avalanche. Now usually from there Bonnie was home around 3:30.

• 10:47Payton Moreland?

  But that day, the clock kept ticking. Again, 17-year-old Heather has run away. She's been gone for 15 days. Bonnie is at work, and in the time from getting in her car to being home by 3:30, more and more time is passing and she's not showing up. And so her boyfriend, who lives at the house, Gary, is starting to get worried. And by 4:00 PM, he begins trying Bonnie's cellphone. But his calls are going right to voicemail, which is more than enough to set off alarm bells for Gary. Because not only is Bonnie the kind of person who does everything on a schedule,

• 11:28Payton Moreland?

  since she has Aaron, she would absolutely let someone know if she was running late or wasn't going to be able to make it home to take care of him.

• 11:39Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 11:40Payton Moreland?

  That alone is enough to say that this just random disappearing is very uncharacteristic of her. So the rest of the day and into the night, Gary is calling around to people to ask if anyone has seen Bonnie. And when she still isn't home the following morning, Gary calls work to see if she showed up for her shift. Her coworkers are like, no, she's not here. We haven't heard from her. But also, her car, her red car, is still in the parking lot at work. So this is when Gary goes to the police to report Bonnie missing, which means from walking out of work to getting into her car.

• 12:24Garrett Moreland?

  She somehow disappeared?

• 12:26Payton Moreland?

  She somehow disappeared.

• 12:27Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 12:28Payton Moreland?

  Now, when police show up to Bonnie's workplace on June 26th, they obviously immediately search her car and find a few strange things. For starters, it hasn't been moved from its parking spot that it was initially parked in yesterday, but now the windows are rolled down and the car is unlocked. So-

• 12:51Payton Moreland?

  It's almost like Bonnie or someone got in and back out after she left work. So someone has been in this car since she walked out of work. So to the family, this feels like a bad sign because if Bonnie had just run away or needed a break, there's no way she's just gonna leave her truck behind. She loved the car and had worked hard to buy it. She wasn't just gonna leave it. But after looking closer at the truck, police don't find anything suspicious. There is no damage to the vehicle. There is no evidence of a struggle having occurred inside. However, they do notice her paycheck is still sitting on the seat. This is the one that she had received the day before.

• 13:36Payton Moreland?

  And her family said the first thing Bonnie always did when she got her paycheck was just take it right to the bank and deposit it. Yet, there it is. So this is when the police decide to look a little closer at Bonnie's digital footprint. And they find there has been no online activity from her. There's no bank withdrawals or deposits, no use of her cellphone since the day before. And unfortunately, there's also no security footage of the parking lot to show where Bonnie might have gone after she walked out of work. But luckily, there are a few eyewitnesses that spotted something interesting.

• 14:16Payton Moreland?

  When police are talking to Bonnie's coworkers, one of them, a woman named Wanda Bosley, says she saw Bonnie during her 2:00 PM meeting. And to her, something about Bonnie was definitely off. She said she wasn't acting like her usual upbeat self. She was quiet, internalizing. Something was clearly bothering her. But then Wanda also went to the parking lot around the same time Bonnie did. And she said when she was in the parking lot, she saw Bonnie standing behind her red truck, talking with someone. Was a guy, maybe in his 40s. One she'd never seen before. She says he was maybe 5'8" or 5'9". He was white.

• 15:01Payton Moreland?

  Had a medium build with salt and pepper hair. Wanda wasn't the only one who saw this guy lurking in the parking lot, though. Other coworkers said, actually, I saw a man in a silver sedan, like a Chevy Malibu, waiting in the parking lot during the staff meeting. A few of them said they also saw Bonnie and him talking afterwards. And then other coworkers say, no, we didn't only see her talking to this guy. We actually saw her willingly get into his car. And the two of them drove away.

• 15:41Garrett Moreland?

  I feel like I used to trust eyewitnesses a lot and now I don't. You know what I'm saying?

• 15:47Payton Moreland?

  I mean, they aren't the most reliable.

• 15:49Garrett Moreland?

  Like we've come to realize eyewitnesses are great, but they mess up a lot.

• 15:54Payton Moreland?

  I do think there are a lot of eyewitnesses in this case.

• 15:57Garrett Moreland?

  So like, yeah.

• 15:58Payton Moreland?

  Versus one.

• 15:59Garrett Moreland?

  Like a one off or something. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. There are plenty of reasons we put off getting support and for a lot of people, cost is one of them. With BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And while we're reconsidering old assumptions, maybe there are a few others worth questioning, too.

• 16:23Payton Moreland?

  Women inherit a lot of unwritten rules. Be ambitious, but not intimidating. Be there for everyone, but still make time for yourself. Have it all together, but don't look like you're trying too hard. And I have definitely fallen into all of these traps. But if you have been wanting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. If you don't have insurance or don't live in the United States, you can still get 10% off your first month.

• 16:55Garrett Moreland?

  And Peyton and I are big advocates for therapy. Give it a try. Life can be crazy. There's a lot going on. Like we were talking about, sometimes it feels like you need to have everything figured out. You don't. Go talk to someone. Go see what's going on. Visit betterhelp.com/husband to explore your payment options. That's better help, H E L P dot com slash husband.

• 17:17Payton Moreland?

  This message is sponsored by Greenlight. You know, there were many times growing up in school where I was like, when am I ever going to use this? And let me be real honest with you. A lot of those things have turned out to be true. But you know what I wish they would have taught in school? Financial literacy. So Greenlight takes the mental load of family life and kind of puts it all into one place. It keeps your whole family in sync. Money, safety, and everyday life, all in one place. When you're using it, you can see what your kids are spending, right when they spend it. You can also easily send them money via Greenlight instead of like digging around for cash.

• 18:01Payton Moreland?

  And Greenlight just helps your household run smoother. Chores happen without nagging because you can do it all through the Greenlight app. There's also like a schedule that is up to date in real time. So when you're out of milk or someone needs new cleats, it just goes on this shared list that everyone can add to. Join the 6.5 million family members who trust Greenlight. Garrett has younger siblings. They've used Greenlight and it is so amazing to watch them learn about money in the safety of their home. You've got enough on your plate. Greenlight keeps it all in sync. Get started at greenlight.com/husband. That is greenlight.com/husband. Greenlight.com/husband. Go check it out now.

• 18:45Payton Moreland?

  So naturally, the first place investigators start is with those close to Bonnie, which in this case happens to be her boyfriend Gary. They need to figure out who's this mysterious guy? What was going on in Bonnie's life? How, why would she disappear? The two, Gary and Bonnie, have been in a relationship on and off for about seven years by this point. And they also learned that Gary has a bit of a rap sheet. He's a convicted felon. He's had some domestic issues in the past. But Gary says Bonnie knew all about his checkered history. It didn't bother her. The two were on good terms. So the police have him take a polygraph and he passes it with no problem. Plus, he

• 19:26Payton Moreland?

  obviously doesn't fit the description witnesses gave about the guy that Bonnie was last seen talking to in the parking lot. So they do move on from Gary pretty quickly. And eventually, they start looking into Bonnie's exes. And they discover a former boyfriend named Chester McAdams. Now Chester's father owns a 2009 Chevy Impala, which could be confused for a Malibu, which according to eyewitnesses is the car the mystery man was driving. So police are kind of leaning into this. They also discover he has his own criminal history.

• 20:05Payton Moreland?

  Apparently Bonnie had seen Chester during one of those off periods with Gary. And at one point, the two guys had some heated exchanges, actually, once or twice over Bonnie. So investigators start to think, is it possible that Chester was jealous that Bonnie had picked Gary and he wanted Bonnie back in his life? So he kidnapped her, or maybe she even ran away with him willingly. So police look Chester up and they find that he also doesn't match the description the eyewitnesses gave. Chester has a ponytail and a beard. The guy they described was kind of clean cut. So police bring him in for questioning. He fully cooperates with

• 20:48Payton Moreland?

  them. He also says, I'm, okay, I don't have that car. That's my father's car and I don't drive his car. Like, he would never let me borrow his car. So they check out his alibi and sure enough, his boss says he was at work during the time Bonnie disappeared, which means now both Gary and Chester, her two, like, recent love interests-

• 21:08Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, the main suspects.

• 21:10Payton Moreland?

  -are cleared of suspicion. But there's one thing that sets off alarm bells, which I've already informed you guys of. And it's the fact that Bonnie is not the only person who's technically missing from her household recently.

• 21:27Payton Moreland?

  They still have 17 year old Heather who ran away from home who is still MIA. Now Bonnie's family had actually filed a missing persons report to a different police station about a week earlier. Um, just saying like she said she ran away to her teacher's house. Like she willingly left, but we haven't seen her and now we're going to file a report. And so when police respond to Bonnie's missing persons report, they're like, oh wait, what are the chances that not one, but two people in the last week have been reported missing from the same like household? Yeah. A mom and her stepchild that she's adopted. So the police seem to think this isn't really a coincidence.

• 22:12Payton Moreland?

  The investigators on Bonnie's case start comparing notes with the investigators working Heather's case and they find that as her family had said, Heather's last known location was at her teacher, Christine Sheffield's home, which is why police then pay Christine a visit. So they've now almost merged these two investigations. They're looking for Bonnie, but now they're also interested in finding Heather. When they get there, they realize Heather is no longer there. Her teacher Christine says Heather stayed with her, starting on the 10th, the night she ran away, but she actually left on the 17th and she didn't know where the teenager was headed. Christine also tells the police the reason that she even helped Heather out.

• 22:57Payton Moreland?

  Cause like, why would a teenager run away to a teacher's house? According to Christine, she tells police that according to Heather, she had been suffering a lot of abuse at home. Heather told Christine and other teachers that she would be slapped or thrown against a wall or woken up in the middle of the night to do chores. Heather apparently called Christine around the 10th to say she was being kicked out of her house and had nowhere else to go. But around the 16th, Bonnie called Christine and said, hey, Heather said she was going to your house and she needs to come home. So Bonnie had talked to the teacher and then the teacher Christine told Heather, hey,

• 23:40Payton Moreland?

  You need to go home. Like your mom called. You need to go home, but.

• 23:43Garrett Moreland?

  It's just kind of weird that both the mom and daughter are missing. Like it's obviously tied to someone that knows them. Why are you looking at me like that?

• 23:51Payton Moreland?

  I'm not. I'm not looking at you like anything.

• 23:54Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, keep going.

• 23:56Payton Moreland?

  Apparently when Christine told Heather that she spent the night crying and then when Christine left to do something the next morning on the 17th, she returned to find that Heather had just left her house. And Christine assumed, okay, she just went back to Bonnie's because that's what I told her to do the night before. Uh, but now we know she didn't go back to Bonnie's and no one knows where she is. That was when Bonnie filed a missing persons report. Heather had been missing ever since and then Bonnie disappears.

• 24:25Garrett Moreland?

  What the freak? Okay.

• 24:27Payton Moreland?

  So now Bonnie's disappeared. This is where police have caught up to in the investigation, but then eight days after Bonnie's disappearance, there is a wild turn in this case. On July 3rd, 2010, police get a phone call from a local library. They say they have a woman there who says her name is Heather Woodward and she'd been reported missing.

• 24:54Garrett Moreland?

  What?

• 24:54Payton Moreland?

  So police drive to the library.

• 24:56Garrett Moreland?

  I'm so confused.

• 24:57Payton Moreland?

  Pick her up, bring her into the station for questioning. There's nothing clearly visible on Heather that would be of concern. She doesn't look bruised or injured or even unkempt for that matter. She just turned herself in after being missing. And when officers are like, hey, what's your birthday? She's like, it's today. I'm 18. Which is why she claims she finally came forward to put this missing persons case to rest. Because now she legally doesn't have to go back to Bonnie's house if she doesn't want to. She's 18. She's an adult.

• 25:30Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 25:30Payton Moreland?

  Um, but she doesn't want there to be a missing persons case on her. So she's turned herself in, said, hey, I'm fine. I'm good. Take me off the list.

• 25:39Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 25:40Payton Moreland?

  But I do have to say, her behavior is a little weird in this interview. She's not really acting like an 18 year old.

• 25:48Garrett Moreland?

  Do 18s ever? Oh, wait, are you saying older or younger?

• 25:51Payton Moreland?

  Younger. Cause hear me out. During this interview, she is holding a teddy bear, like clutching it and she's acting more like a little girl. Like the thing she's saying, quote,

• 26:12Payton Moreland?

  I'm tired, I'm ready for my nap, I want my daddy.

• 26:15Garrett Moreland?

  Does she look like an 18 year old in the interview?

• 26:18Payton Moreland?

  Yes, yes. And so police are a little weird because she's coming in being like, I'm 18, I don't need to go home. But then she's also acting really young, like in a, in an odd way.

• 26:29Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 26:30Payton Moreland?

  And so this is when they're like, yeah, Heather, okay, like you don't have to go home. Technically, you're 18, but we need to talk to you about Bonnie because she's been like, she's missing. No one knows where she is. And we need to know if you know where your stepmom is. But Heather doesn't act that alarmed that her stepmother's missing. She says she has no idea what happened to her, but she's just guessing that maybe Bonnie went into hiding to try and draw her out. She's like, maybe my mom wanted me to come home. And so she went missing in hopes that that would bring me forward to look for her. And when police ask her about the situation at home with Bonnie, they're like, okay, well, you know, how was it at home with Bonnie? She doesn't mention anything about abuse,

• 27:13Payton Moreland?

  like she's told her teachers. She just tells police that she ran away from home because she was forced into doing free labor, like chores and babysitting, the types of things most teenagers do around the house. So now the police are realizing, okay, we think Heather lied to her teachers. We don't think she was abused. We think she's acting young on purpose. We think she's being manipulated. Like, police decide this. They're like, we think

• 27:39Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 27:40Payton Moreland?

  that this is all an act, especially after they find a report from the Department of Children and Family Services that said they had been called to Bonnie's home regarding Heather in the past. They found claims of abuse to be totally unfounded. And eventually they ask her, okay, you left, you went to your teacher's house. Where did you go after that? Because it's still been a while. And Heather says, oh, I went to a friend's house, but she doesn't want to get them in trouble. She claims that the person she was with doesn't like Bonnie, and that it's all her fault that Bonnie went missing. Now finally, after a bit of more pressure from the police, Heather gives them a name. Well, actually, three people's name.

• 28:24Payton Moreland?

  So this whole thing with Heather is just a mess. Police are like, what?

• 28:28Garrett Moreland?

  I'm just confused.

• 28:29Payton Moreland?

  Is going on here?

• 28:31Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 28:31Payton Moreland?

  So either way, Heather ends up telling police, here's three names you need to know. A 16 year old boy named Nathan Carroll and his parents, Monica and Roger. She says, this is where I was. They don't like my mom and they probably had something to do with her disappearance.

• 28:51Garrett Moreland?

  Why did she come back? Like, why, why come back?

• 28:55Payton Moreland?

  I mean, you and put like, they're just like, this is so odd. She says she came back because she didn't want to have a missing persons report on her when she was fine.

• 29:04Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 29:05Payton Moreland?

  So obviously, police are like, okay, Heather. And they begin looking into the 16 year old Nathan Carroll and his parents. They find that his parents, both Monica and Roger, were in the medical field. They went to the same church as the Woodwards. They did somehow know Bonnie. They had no criminal history, no records of police involvement. And the detectives, it seems like they were really just opening up their doors to Heather, who also told them stories about being abused at Bonnie's house. So police decide to pay Roger and Monica a little visit. They go to this giant 60 acre property near Jerseyville, Illinois. And when they get there, one of the first things they realize is Roger, the dad,

• 29:50Payton Moreland?

  sort of fits the description of the man. The eyewitnesses say Bonnie was talking to in the parking lot the day she went missing. He's in his 40s. He has brownish gray hair. He's clean cut. He's about five foot 10 and he drives a silver 2005 Chevrolet Malibu.

• 30:09Garrett Moreland?

  Which it would also make sense why she got in his car willingly.

• 30:13Payton Moreland?

  Because if he's like, hey, your runaway daughter is at my house.

• 30:17Garrett Moreland?

  Then he, then she would get in.

• 30:19Payton Moreland?

  So police are like, okay, we thought Heather was just a little cuckoo, but maybe she was on to something like she knew more than she was. She was just being. Weird about it, but.

• 30:28Garrett Moreland?

  But it does sound like not that she's cuckoo, but she's lied about all this abuse.

• 30:32Payton Moreland?

  Yes, but they were just confused about Heather. They were confused about Heather, but now they're like.

• 30:37Garrett Moreland?

  They're understanding what's happening.

• 30:38Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, they're like, okay, wait, Heather clearly knew more. She was hinting that these people might know something. She clearly knew they knew something.

• 30:44Garrett Moreland?

  Also, I'm just confused. How do? How does one of your friends and then their parents hate your mom enough to?

• 30:54Payton Moreland?

  Right?

• 30:55Garrett Moreland?

  Hurt them like that also is that's. That's pretty outlandish.

• 30:59Payton Moreland?

  Again, going back to the fact that police fairly quickly decided that Heather was pretty manipulative. That a lot of her behavior was manipulative that day, which could be.

• 31:09Garrett Moreland?

  I'm curious to see where this goes. Like if she told them, my mom's hurting me. My mom's a bad person, you know, like I, this will be interesting.

• 31:17Payton Moreland?

  So that day, police show up. They're like, hey, you know, we have Heather. She came in. She said she's been staying with you. She also said you might have something to do with her mom. Bonnie's disappearance. We need to take your car in for evidence. And not only that, they sit down and talk to the Carols. And they're pretty cooperative with the investigation. But they say that while they were helping Heather escape. What they thought was an abusive household, they claim they never actually met Bonnie. They just knew of Bonnie. So after this brief discussion with the Carols, the police do some more digging and they learn, ah, there is more to the story here.

• 31:58Payton Moreland?

  Heather didn't just stay with the family while she was waiting for her 18th birthday so she could cancel her missing persons report. She went on vacation with them. Four days before Bonnie's disappearance, this family plus Heather took a trip to Gorville, Illinois. To the Carol's Lake House. So the next day, police call Heather back in for round two and they're like, hey. We found out that you didn't tell us, but you went like you left. The city and you went to their lake house for vacation. What happened there? And Heather offers something useful. She admits, yeah, I did go with them, but says on the day Bonnie disappeared.

• 32:40Payton Moreland?

  Nathan, the 16 year old and Roger, his dad left the lake house to go home early. They left at 7:00 AM that morning because quote Roger just wanted to go home and he wanted Nathan to go with him. Now, police are starting to think, okay, did they go to this lake house, plan this out, and then Nathan and Roger go home and lure Bonnie away from the parking lot with a promise of delivering Heather? Did they ask for money? Was it a bribe? If Roger and Bonnie didn't really know each other, why would she have just gotten into his car unless she was promised she would finally be reunited with her missing daughter? Police decide to strategize using this. They think they're in the right direction. They're just really confused.

• 33:24Payton Moreland?

  Like, they have all the puzzle pieces, they just don't know how to fit them together. They don't have enough evidence to suspect Roger or his family did anything to Bonnie, but they can arrest Roger and Monica for harboring a teenage runaway, which they do. And this allows them to get fingerprints and photographs, put them in a lineup. And meanwhile, Roger and Monica both plead not guilty to the charges. Still, police start passing Roger and Monica's mugshots around Bonnie's workplace. But unfortunately, none of her coworkers ID either of them as a match for who Bonnie was talking to that day.

• 34:00Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, interesting, okay.

• 34:01Payton Moreland?

  Not concretely, at least. However, in September, the prints from Bonnie's truck come back from the parking lot. And guess whose prints are on the truck that was left in the parking lot at work?

• 34:15Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, the father.

• 34:16Payton Moreland?

  Roger Carroll. So it turns out, he definitely knew Bonnie, and if he didn't know her, he touched her truck. But still, Roger denies it repeatedly. He's like, no, I have no idea how my fingerprints could have got there. I'm probably being framed.

• 34:29Garrett Moreland?

  Oh.

• 34:30Payton Moreland?

  But now the police are more suspicious of him than ever. And he has to say this because, remember, they told police they'd never met Bonnie. They'd never seen her in person. They'd never had any contact with her.

• 34:41Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, yeah, so they have to deny everything, then.

• 34:43Payton Moreland?

  So when police are like, well, your fingerprints are on her truck, he then has to deny it or change his story. So, police are suspicious and they get a warrant to search the 60-acre property. I used to think a camera or video doorbell was home security. And then I realized, those can only record a break-in. They literally can't stop one. And that is- The difference with Simply Safe. When an intruder steps onto your property, Simply Safe's AI-powered cameras detect the threat and alert a live US-based agent who can then intervene to stop them before they even get into your door. Because it's not my house or valuables that I'm even worried about. It's a stranger getting anywhere close to the people I love. And I'm obviously taking this way more seriously now,

• 35:28Payton Moreland?

  which I already did, but now more than ever with a baby on the way. Like I said, unlike traditional security cameras that only alert you after a break-in, Simply Safe is built to stop it before it starts. And they have so many different options. If you haven't got on and checked it out, just do it, guys. If you've been waiting for a sign to get some security, this is it. Join the more than 6 million people who entrust Simply Safe with their home security. Right now, save 60% off with professional monitoring when you visit simplysafe.com/husband. That is an amazing code, guys, 60% off. That is simplysafe.com/husband. And when you order, again, just please let them know Murder With My Husband sent you.

• 36:12Payton Moreland?

  Write it in at the checkout survey. It just lets them know we sent you and it helps support the show. Simply Safe, ahead of crime and in real time. Guys, I'm not sure if I have talked about this, but I have been put on an extremely restrictive diet while being pregnant. And you know what has helped me so much? Hungry Root. I know, I know, you knew that was coming. It is so nice to be able to still shop, but get on and put in my preferences, put exactly what I'm looking for, pick out recipes that fit my dietary restrictions. I love Hungry Root. We've actually been using them since like, I think 2022 was when I first started using them.

• 36:56Payton Moreland?

  That was before they were even a sponsor of the show, okay? If you've never checked it out, you're interested in online grocery delivery that has quality products. I'm talking healthier alternatives. They're very transparent with what is in the ingredients. You can trust that what You're getting from Hungry Root is top notch. It completely changes the way of shopping. And also for me has really helped ease my mind when it comes to this new diet. So you're gonna love Hungry Root as much as I do. For a limited time, you can get 40% off your first order. Plus, get a free item in every box for life. Go to hungryroot.com/husband and use code HUSBAND for that, you guys.

• 37:40Payton Moreland?

  That is hungryroot.com/husband code HUSBAND to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Now equipped with a huge team, including cadaver dogs and helicopters. Police execute that warrant that same September because again, they're pretty sure they're on the right track. They find about 30 guns in the home, along with 200 rounds of ammunition. And while the cadaver dogs do hit on a few areas of the property. After digging those areas up, they don't find anything. In fact, they conduct a couple searches of the property that fall and it leads them nowhere. But they also searched Rogers Silver Malibu. Shockingly though, they don't find anything proving Bonnie ever sat inside.

• 38:25Payton Moreland?

  No fibers, no DNA, no fingerprints. The car is actually immaculate. So at that point detectives are kind of reaching a stalemate. They're pretty sure Bonnie has been killed. There's been no activity on any of her accounts. She would never leave her family like that, so unexpectedly. But they don't have a body. They can't prove it. They think they have the right family or people. But there's zero evidence to show that Bonnie ever went to the Carol's property. Let alone got in Roger's car, even though his fingerprints were on her truck. So right now, the only thing they have is Rogers prints on Bonnie's car. And a few other just strange, random things Heather told the police.

• 39:10Garrett Moreland?

  Which is hard because it doesn't mean you've killed someone. Is it extremely weird? Yes. And should you be convicted of killing someone? Is there enough evidence?

• 39:20Payton Moreland?

  Probably not.

• 39:21Garrett Moreland?

  Probably not. I don't know.

• 39:23Payton Moreland?

  So as police are still talking to Heather, she's just like. Dropping information here and there that's not really in like tied to anything specifically, but when you put it all together, just is a little confusing. She says that when she ran away to stay with them, Roger, the dad, wouldn't let her use phones or computers or anything. In fact, she said she couldn't make contact with anyone outside the house while she stayed with them. And that she wasn't allowed to tell the police that she had been staying with them on their property, which is why it took her so long to say it during her first interrogation, but she obviously did tell them. This is certainly alarming. Again, not enough to for an arrest warrant, so eventually police move on.

• 40:08Payton Moreland?

  And then five years later in 2015, the charges against Monica for harboring a runaway are dropped. Roger's charges remain and Bonnie's missing person case runs cold. Then 2018, eight years after Bonnie's disappearance, a domestic dispute turns this case on its head.

• 40:32Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 40:33Payton Moreland?

  By this point, Monica and Roger are no longer a united front. Roger's been cheating on Monica. Frankly, she's had enough.

• 40:40Garrett Moreland?

  Here we go.

• 40:41Payton Moreland?

  He's mentioned divorce to her. She figures he won't be shocked when she finally serves him papers. Turns out she's wrong. On March 2 of 2018, Monica's getting ready for work when Roger corners her in the laundry room of their home. He grabs her by the hair, starts dragging her around the house, hitting her with a taser gun.

• 41:01Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 41:02Payton Moreland?

  Monica starts screaming for Nathan, who's no longer a 16 year old kid. He's now 25, but still lives with them. Except Nathan's already left for work, so Monica's alone with Roger and she's on her own. Now, apparently this wasn't out of the blue. Monica claims she'd been afraid of Roger for some time. She'd been sleeping in a separate bedroom, putting a dresser in front of the door at night. But this, this confrontation was next level. Monica tries to talk Roger down from this fit of rage, hoping she can rationalize with him. But he tells her he's not the same person he was. He has a lot of anger. He can no longer control. He's a monster. The devil is living inside of him.

• 41:45Garrett Moreland?

  Give me a break.

• 41:47Payton Moreland?

  At some point, according to Monica, she says, he says to her, quote, "I have killed for you."

• 41:55Payton Moreland?

  Now, the second Monica is out of the house, she rushes to her car, she drives to the courthouse to get a restraining order, but this makes its way to the police. So, obviously, the police are like, wait, these two suspects in this cold case, that we were pretty sure we had the right people, but we can never put anything together, nothing made sense.

• 42:15Garrett Moreland?

  Now hate each other?

• 42:16Payton Moreland?

  Now she's filing a restraining order against him. So, police find out that she had also said that he had killed for her during this dispute, and they're like, wait, he's in our suspect list, and he's telling his wife while beating her that he's killed for her? So they're starting to be like, wait, is this tied to our case?

• 42:37Garrett Moreland?

  Also, well, I'm just curious where this goes, because what does killing someone else's mom have to do with killing for her?

• 42:46Payton Moreland?

  Right? So after this incident, Monica knows that she has to tell police everything she can about her husband, like, she's now turned fully against her husband, so she's gonna talk to police. And while she says that, you know, her and Bonnie, or Bonnie and Roger, never had a close connection that she's aware of, there were a few things that stood out to her. Keep in mind, this is her story. She claims her husband Roger had taken a weird interest in Bonnie's day-to-day life before she disappeared. He had asked Heather, who was staying with them, about where she worked, what her schedule was like, what days of the week she was there.

• 43:29Payton Moreland?

  And at this same time that they're learning all this, police are trying to locate Roger. And that day, they find him in the woods around his home.

• 43:37Garrett Moreland?

  In the woods?

• 43:38Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, so they go to find him after this dispute, and they discover him with a bag of syringes and insulin. He claims he's trying to die by suicide because he, quote, "hurt his wife bad." Police are like, okay, calm down. Yes, there's been a domestic dispute. Yes, your wife is talking to police, but you need to like, put the things down. He is arrested on charges of domestic abuse. But now prosecutors, when all of this comes to a head, they're determined to get Roger on first degree murder charges too. Because now that they have Monica in their back pocket saying like, no, he was being weird. He was talking about Bonnie. He was doing all of this. They think that they can get him for this.

• 44:23Payton Moreland?

  So on March 29th, 2018, a grand jury hearing takes place. And the star witness is someone the prosecution made a deal with. A promise of immunity in return for their confession. The one person who according to Monica and Heather, because remember a long time ago Heather told police, I was with Monica at the lake house when Bonnie disappeared. Who went home though, Roger and their 16 year old son at the time, Nathan. So police decide to give Nathan immunity in return for his testimony against his father Roger, who they are claiming killed Bonnie Woodward.

• 45:07Garrett Moreland?

  It's just so hard. There's no body. They haven't found anything.

• 45:11Payton Moreland?

  Right. So this is Nathan's story, which I mean, he is a huge part of this. This is what he tells the court. On the morning of June 25th, 2010, Roger told Nathan, they were leaving early from the lake house, leaving the girls there to head to the nursing home where Bonnie worked. When Nathan asked Roger why, he told Nathan she was quote, "a bad person. She was mean and aggressive and abusive and she needed to go away and never come back." Nathan says he also explicitly told him he was going to kill her. So it just fills out of the blue. And even when they're like, what's the motive here Nathan? He's like, I don't know. He said that she was a bad person.

• 45:51Garrett Moreland?

  What?

• 45:51Payton Moreland?

  So he says when they get back to town, they scoped out the nursing home. Roger drove Nathan home to their house near Jerseyville, grabbed a gun and went back to the nursing home. So now Nathan's like, yeah, I was home. Later that afternoon, Nathan remembered hearing eight or nine gunshots in the yard. And when he went outside, he claims he saw his dad Roger standing next to Heather's mother Bonnie, who was now shot to death. Roger told Nathan that he used Heather as bait to get Bonnie to come with him from work. Because what mother wouldn't take the opportunity to rescue their runaway daughter if they could? And unfortunately Bonnie never got the chance to even see or say goodbye to Heather because Heather and Monica at this point are still back at the lake house.

• 46:36Payton Moreland?

  Roger moved Bonnie's remains under a pile of brush. He lit it on fire. And meanwhile, Nathan was instructed to keep raking the coals to make sure the body was fully burned. For nearly the next week, Nathan claims he would come outside every couple of hours to stoke the fire and make sure nothing was left of her body.

• 46:56Garrett Moreland?

  This is insane.

• 46:58Payton Moreland?

  He says after this, they disposed of any remaining ashes in the creek. And then Nathan was ordered to mow the lawn where the blood had pooled from Bonnie's bullet wounds. Even weirder Nathan.

• 47:09Garrett Moreland?

  Holy shh.

• 47:11Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 47:11Garrett Moreland?

  Could you imagine having to experience that at 16, 17 years old?

• 47:15Payton Moreland?

  And like.

• 47:15Garrett Moreland?

  What?

• 47:16Payton Moreland?

  No one questions your dad and so you're just doing what he says because this is who he is.

• 47:21Garrett Moreland?

  And now she also just doesn't have a mom anymore?

• 47:23Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 47:24Garrett Moreland?

  What is happening?

• 47:25Payton Moreland?

  Nathan said after that day, he wasn't encouraged to forget about Bonnie. And this is weird. He said his father talked to him every night about it for years.

• 47:36Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my, he's nuts.

• 47:38Payton Moreland?

  So following.

• 47:40Garrett Moreland?

  He's nuts.

• 47:41Payton Moreland?

  The grand jury hearing, authorities returned to the Carol's 60 acre property once more. That April Nathan led them to the exact spots the crime occurred. He took them to the place Bonnie was shot, where her body was burned, where her ashes were dumped. And through that process, police found 27 pieces of human bone fragments, along with shell casings from a nine millimeter revolver. This is the same gun Nathan told the court his father had used to kill Bonnie.

• 48:10Garrett Moreland?

  Wow.

• 48:11Payton Moreland?

  So again, this is just like the pre like this is the grand jury. And so Roger is now charged with first degree murder. The case against him was bolstered even further when the DNA testing on those bone fragments found on his property came back. Twenty five of them were proven to belong to Bonnie.

• 48:29Garrett Moreland?

  Why? Like, no reason. I mean, maybe he says there was a reason, but he just wanted to kill somebody.

• 48:35Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, I think that he wanted to kill someone. And when Heather came to them, this was the perfect excuse. He was going to look like the hero for rescuing a teenage girl from an abusive household. And he gets to kill someone. He's the, he seems like, from the way it's described, to be the leader of this house.

• 48:54Garrett Moreland?

  Which is very ironic because he's also abusive himself.

• 48:58Payton Moreland?

  Right?

• 48:58Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 48:58Payton Moreland?

  So you killed someone for supposedly being abusive?

• 49:01Garrett Moreland?

  Mm hmm.

• 49:02Payton Moreland?

  So by the time Roger's trial came around in March of 2020, Heather and Monica had also made a deal with authorities. Neither one of them were facing charges due to their willingness to cooperate with the investigation.

• 49:17Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 49:17Payton Moreland?

  Monica testified against her husband at trial and talked about his abuse towards her, his obsession with tracking Bonnie back in 2010 before the murder, and how she did see the fire and the cleanup after the murder. So.

• 49:35Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I mean, it's a little suspect, right? Like, that's, I mean, it's a little suspicious.

• 49:39Payton Moreland?

  I mean, this is why she's not, this is why she's even getting, if you're innocent, you don't need anything in exchange for testifying.

• 49:47Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, it's a little hard because there's a very good chance that she knew exactly what was happening and just turned a blind eye.

• 49:54Payton Moreland?

  Even if it didn't come out of her husband's mouth.

• 49:56Garrett Moreland?

  I can't say, I, all I can say is that it's, um, we'll never know. And allegedly, because.

• 50:02Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 50:04Garrett Moreland?

  She was never tried for anything, but it just seemed a little sus to me.

• 50:08Payton Moreland?

  And interesting enough, at testimony, when Monica is testifying against Roger, she also mentions how Roger and Heather, Bonnie's stepdaughter, 17-year-old daughter, who was staying with them after running away, took a long walk together, just the two of them, the day before he left the lake house to kill Bonnie. So Monica's like, yeah, he went and killed her mom, but the day before that, my husband and this 17-year-old girl went for a really long walk together. I think she's implying at trial that Heather was told during that walk before this happened that he was going to kill Bonnie and save her. That's what Monica's implying at trial.

• 50:53Garrett Moreland?

  This is nuts. Also, a lot of, I just, I'm trying to think about the daughter psyche, the son psyche, like, there's just so much involved that I don't know what to really think.

• 51:06Payton Moreland?

  Between the witness testimony, the physical evidence found at the scene, and a forensic wood anatomy expert who confirmed there was a significant fire on the property back in May or June of 2010, there was more than enough for jurors to deliberate on, and they found Roger Carroll guilty of first-degree murder.

• 51:24Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah. I mean, obviously.

• 51:27Payton Moreland?

  That October 2020, Roger was sentenced to 40 years for first-degree murder and 25 years for gun enhancement in connection to the murder.

• 51:36Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 51:37Payton Moreland?

  During that hearing, Bonnie's son offered up these words, quote, "My mother was a good-hearted, dedicated mother, grandmother, sister, aunt, friend, and coworker. Since Roger Carroll senselessly took her from our family, she's missed the birth of two grandchildren, countless holidays, birthdays, homecoming, my discharge from the Army, and my wedding. I was unable to dance with my mother at my reception, and now, because Roger Carroll destroyed my mother's remains in an attempt to avoid prosecution, he's also robbed us of the ability to properly lay her to rest. Roger Carroll doesn't deserve to spend one more day enjoying the freedom I defended while in the Army."

• 52:21Garrett Moreland?

  Good point. 100%.

• 52:23Payton Moreland?

  But as everyone is currently screaming, and as I can tell it's bothering Garrett, there's one part about this case that's probably eating us away.

• 52:30Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, and I feel like it's this-

• 52:32Payton Moreland?

  The motive.

• 52:33Garrett Moreland?

  You're just, oh, I was thinking something else.

• 52:36Payton Moreland?

  What were you thinking?

• 52:36Garrett Moreland?

  Like the daughter.

• 52:38Payton Moreland?

  Oh, yes, yes, yes.

• 52:40Garrett Moreland?

  Like, I'm just, anyways, you, you, you can go, I, maybe I'll address.

• 52:44Payton Moreland?

  Is there manipulation there?

• 52:46Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, like what, like what's happening? What's going on?

• 52:50Payton Moreland?

  I.

• 52:51Garrett Moreland?

  And I, it's hard because she's young and she still has a life, so I don't want to call her out if the police didn't address anything and they moved on past it.

• 53:00Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, I mean, she was.

• 53:03Garrett Moreland?

  Like, what's going on?

• 53:05Payton Moreland?

  Here's the thing, sometimes we have cases that are just so open and shut. You have all the evidence. The motive makes perfect, perfect sense. I don't mean that in that it makes sense, but at least to us, we can like apply a motive that we can somewhat understand. You can put a bow on it. They go to prison, blah, blah, blah. In this case, we have the people, we have the answers of what happened. We have the answers of how he got her. We have the bow on the case of him going to prison and serving time. But the thing we don't have is like the main thing people listen to true crime for, which is why? Why do people do this? Why would he do this? If he didn't even know Bonnie? Why would you kill someone?

• 53:47Payton Moreland?

  And sometimes that happens in true crime cases where the motive truly is bewildering and it's gonna leave you unsatisfied because you're, you're like, what?

• 53:57Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 53:57Payton Moreland?

  Why would this happen? What is the motive? Now, all of the sources I read have inferred the same thing about Roger. He was told by Heather that Bonnie was mean, aggressive and abusive. And he decided to kill Bonnie to protect Heather and his own family. But I can't help but wonder if there's more to the story here, which is where Garrett's stepping in. Is Heather that convincing? She got people she just barely met to fall in love with her and kill for her?

• 54:30Garrett Moreland?

  It's none of it makes sense. She also lied to her teacher. I just, it's also hard to bring it up because I know she was a minor during this and it's like, do I want to open that? If the police never even opened that can of worms, maybe it just was, it didn't matter. And maybe they went over it and didn't.

• 54:43Payton Moreland?

  Well, here's the thing, the state doesn't really have to prove a motive. They just have to prove that someone killed someone.

• 54:48Garrett Moreland?

  And that's all they were going for, which I get, but.

• 54:50Payton Moreland?

  Which they did. But we believe no one in their right mind would meet someone and then go randomly kill someone for that person days after meeting them.

• 54:59Garrett Moreland?

  Correct. I mean, yeah, you could say that, but also we're nuts.

• 55:05Payton Moreland?

  Exactly.

• 55:05Garrett Moreland?

  And weird stuff happened. So maybe he did just want to kill somebody.

• 55:08Payton Moreland?

  That is kind of the feeling I'm getting from all the sources and everything is that he was aggressive, he was dominant, he had a god complex and

• 55:21Garrett Moreland?

  Wanted to kill somebody.

• 55:22Payton Moreland?

  Wanted to kill someone. So when Heather came in and he felt like, oh, I can kill someone, which I've wanted to do, but also claim myself to be the hero and protecting everyone.

• 55:30Garrett Moreland?

  That's probably what happened. Yeah.

• 55:32Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 55:34Garrett Moreland?

  Nuts. Sad. Very sad. The son doesn't have a mom. The daughter doesn't have a mom. That's just horrible.

• 55:41Payton Moreland?

  And again, anyone else's involvement in this case is alleged. Besides Nathan, who admitted to helping at 16, but

• 55:50Garrett Moreland?

  Which is also why I'm just not going to address it because it sounds like they haven't figured it out.

• 55:54Payton Moreland?

  I mean, they, yeah, I mean, they put away the person who pulled the trigger.

• 55:58Garrett Moreland?

  That's what matters.

• 55:59Payton Moreland?

  All right, you guys, that is our episode for this week and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.

• 56:04Garrett Moreland?

  I hate it.

• 56:05Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.