Let’s Boogey: The Boogeyman Around the World (Vol. 1)

Weirdos! For August's BONUS EPISODE we are focusing on an entity that has MANY faces and wears MANY hats: The bogeyman! For as long as people have been telling stories, these supernatural beings have been lurking in the woods, or in the dark alleys, or under the bed. They might look different depending on the culture they come from, or be called by another name, but their function in society is consistent: to invoke fear!

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 2:04Speaker 01

  Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash.

• 2:06Speaker 00

  And I'm Alena.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  And this is Malvud.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  It's a bonus episode, everybody.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Honey, happy August. Here's your bonus episode.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Hey, it's almost September.

• 2:31Speaker 00

  I was gonna sing something, but then-

• 2:33Speaker 01

  I didn't know why you were pausing.

• 2:34Speaker 00

  No, I know.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Right?

• 2:36Speaker 00

  No, we're wicked close. I was gonna sing something and then I didn't know what to sing.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  That's okay.

• 2:41Speaker 00

  It happens to the best of us.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  It does happen. It's Friday.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  It's Friday.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  It's Friday.

• 2:46Speaker 00

  I love Friday.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  And today is a bonus episode, so it's a little loosey-goosey, a little different. You know, we've been doing the twilight of it all. Had some guests on.

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  Book clubbies.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  And today, we're gonna start like a new little series that might go through like spooky season. Might dribble them in there.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  I like it.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  We're gonna talk about boogeymen. We're gonna talk about boogeymen, the folklore involving them, the social attitudes around them, how they come to be, what they are.

• 3:13Speaker 00

  Different places.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, different places that they come from. So today, we're gonna talk about like three different boogeymen or boogie people, I should say.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  Boogie people. This is an inclusive show.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  And we'll follow this up with three more and we'll, we'll keep sprinkling them in every once in a while because these bonus episodes are fun. They can kind of just be.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  We should name them Let's Boogey.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Let's Boogey. That's the series.

• 3:36Speaker 00

  Let's Boogey.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  There it is. That was so clever.

• 3:39Speaker 00

  How did I come up with that?

• 3:41Speaker 01

  That was amazing.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  It was tough.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  So this first one, we're, we're talking about boogeymen around the world, boogeymen and women around the world.

• 3:49Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  So let's get right into it.

• 3:51Speaker 00

  Tell me everything about these boogie humans.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  So the boogeyman is kind of like this ambiguous figure. And in different cultures, like there's tons of boogeymen all around the world.

• 4:03Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  And cultures can kind of project their specific fears and anxieties onto their specific boogeymen.

• 4:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  You know, that's kind of where they come from. And according to historian Marina Warner, they belong neither in literary or visual manifestations of art, but in that indeterminate, elusive territory that has been called folklore.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  I love folklore.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  I do, too. There are a broad category of monster supernatural being that circulates within a culture as a warning. Boogeymen are definitely warning signs, for sure. They're warnings to avoid certain places or to behave in certain ways.

• 4:40Speaker 00

  Or people.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's how they come about. And as Warner points out, although they have shared and accepted descriptions and tend to appear in cultural texts and products, they are not themselves literary figures or characters that exist for entertainment or any kind of amusement. Usually there are exceptions, but they exist as kind of like a societal way of control or a way of encouraging or discouraging certain behaviors, especially with children.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, it makes sense.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  Now, the primary defining characteristic of a boogeyman is, according to the Dictionary of English Folklore.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  Tell me.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Any figure deliberately used to frighten others, almost always children, to control their behavior.

• 5:20Speaker 00

  It's fucked up.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. For example, Krampus.

• 5:23Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  The horned, half-demon helper of Saint Nicholas. Krampus is a boogeyman because he exists to frighten children into good behavior.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  But something like Bloody Mary, which could also, like, you know, it like teeters the line there. Bloody Mary really doesn't.

• 5:39Speaker 00

  Really?

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Bloody Mary kind of exists outside of the boogeyman.

• 5:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  So a second and only slightly less significant characteristic is the boogeyman's kind of like amorphousness, like shapelessness. It's this quality that allows them to exist in cultures, literally all over the world, without a precise or even remote physical description sometimes.

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  Yeah.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Societies, again, can project onto their boogeyman whatever they want or need to, you know, achieve that like social control aspect.

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  Do you know who my eternal boogeyman is because I saw The Blair Witch Project too young?

• 6:15Speaker 01

  The Blair Witch?

• 6:16Speaker 00

  The Blair Witch. How did you figure it out? Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 00

  And you know what the lesson is? Stay out of the fucking woods. Don't go camping.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  That's such a valid lesson, I think.

• 6:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean-

• 6:29Speaker 00

  I'm so scared of The Blair Witch to this day.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  I stand by the fact that The Blair Witch is a great fucking movie.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  It's a scary ass movie.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  It's scary.

• 6:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  And it's scary without all the bells and whistles.

• 6:43Speaker 00

  It is.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  And I was there when the marketing campaign happened and it was the best thing that has ever happened.

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  Jealousy.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  It's so good. Now, the final primary characteristic of the boogeyman is that it is typically, though not universally, but like this is just kind of like typically, typically they're like a lurker.

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  Yeah.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  You know?

• 7:03Speaker 00

  They be lurking under your bed, usually.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  They do be lurking. Like the primary audience for the messages conveyed, conveyed through the boogeyman lore, again, are children. And so it kind of like naturally follows that he's probably gonna be found in dark and potentially dangerous places.

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  Yeah, under your bed, your closet.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  You know, a dark corner of a room.

• 7:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  A sewer. He's this amorphous creature just under your bed.

• 7:29Speaker 00

  In the woods.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Don't go under there. And this isn't because the space itself is inherently frightening, like under your bed is not supposed to be inherently frightening.

• 7:37Speaker 00

  Honey, you don't know about under my bed.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  But-

• 7:39Speaker 00

  It is frightening.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  It is, it's kind of put there to ensure that once they are put to bed for the night, they will stay there. Because there's a fear of being grabbed by the creature if they get up.

• 7:52Speaker 00

  That's also just like fucking terrifying.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  That is terrifying.

• 7:55Speaker 00

  Like that's real fucked up.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  To do to really like stay in bed or else. The boogeyman's gonna get, that's fucked up.

• 8:00Speaker 00

  Maybe you should try that.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 8:02Speaker 00

  Your kids are always getting out of bed.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Honestly, if I haven't tried that yet, no one has an excuse to try that. It's crazy. Now, as children get older, though, the boogeyman starts to be in more public places that they end up going, like dense forests, the banks of rivers and lakes, or like a dimly lit city street at night, places that they are now going to be entering that they might encounter real world danger.

• 8:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Now that boogeyman is being put out in the real world.

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  He's kind of elevated.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  Makes it elevated.

• 8:33Speaker 00

  He levels up.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  He does.

• 8:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  He absolutely, he evolves with the kid. Well, it's useful to know like the historical and social context and defining features of the boogeyman. Obviously, the best way to understand the figure, and it's very diverse applications everywhere, all around the world, is to see how it operates at various points of time. All right, so this one we are gonna talk about first is La Yarona.

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  Ooh. Not to be confused with my Charona.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  They are not the same.

• 9:02Speaker 00

  Vastly different individuals.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Very different. This is also known as The Crying Woman.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Now, ironically, as we've stated before, one of the most famous boogeymen of North America is not a man at all, but a woman. La Yarona. Again, sometimes called The Crying Woman or The Whaler.

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  The Whaler. I don't know if I love that.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's, she's a figure in Latin American folklore who haunts the banks of lakes and rivers, mourning the drowning deaths of her small children.

• 9:32Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Those who encounter La Yarona, I keep wanting to say La La Rona because I'm very-

• 9:38Speaker 00

  So American.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  American, unfortunately.

• 9:39Speaker 00

  So unfortunately, deeply American.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  La Yarona can expect to suffer a similar fate as her children, unfortunately, or at the very least, experience a very long run of extremely bad luck. Now, like any proper boogeyman, the point of origin for La Yarona is kind of difficult to identify, but by most accounts, the story seems to go back more than 500 years.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  Damn.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  In the most widely shared account, the story begins with Maria, a strikingly beautiful but extremely vain woman. Maria uses her beauty to win the affections of a wealthy rancher and they go on to have two children.

• 10:15Speaker 00

  Good for her. I see nothing wrong with this so far.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  You will.

• 10:18Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, after just a few years, you know, the happy couple became not so happy. The rancher spends a lot of his time wandering the fields, working, and when he's home, he kind of ignores Maria, but he heaps love and attention to, unto their children.

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  Okay. Uh oh.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  One day, while she's out walking near the river with her children, Maria spots her husband having a picnic with another woman from the village.

• 10:40Speaker 00

  What a dick.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  In a fit of irrationality, she turns her rage on that which her husband loves the most. And she throws both of her small children into the river.

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  It's not an appropriate reaction, Maria.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Very disproportionate response. As soon as she does this, she immediately regains like her senses and realizes what she's done and is immediately stricken with terrible regret. But she can't swim. So Maria ran back and forth screaming out for her children, but it's too late. Inconsolable and unable to live with what she had done, she threw herself in the river and drowned as well. Now, soon after, she was found by the villagers and given a proper burial. But that night, villagers report seeing Maria wandering the banks of the river in a long white robe, crying out for her children.

• 11:27Speaker 00

  Oh, that's really awful.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now, the thing is, so she was given a proper burial, all that according to the legend. But because she has technically murdered her children and taken her own life, Maria is denied entrance to heaven or the afterlife and must wander the earth forever, reliving the terrible moment. Over time, as the story evolved in tellings and retellings, Maria's spirit became a vengeful ghost who would steal any child who wandered too close to the water or a child who disobeyed their parents.

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  Oh, fuck.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Now, because it has existed in various cultures at various points in time, there are many variations of the story of La Llorona. In one version from Guatemala, the woman has an affair with a wealthy man and becomes pregnant.

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  Okay.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Because she's married and doesn't want anyone to find out, she gives birth, but then drowns the baby in a river. As a result of her actions, she's condemned to spend the afterlife wandering the banks of the river, looking for but never finding her lost child.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  It's really sad.

• 12:34Speaker 00

  That is bleak.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  It's really sad. Like, these are not, you know?

• 12:38Speaker 00

  Boogeymen don't come from, like, happy origins.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Now, in another version, specific to Venezuela, the woman becomes pregnant as a result of an affair with a soldier.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Who abandons her soon after.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Dick.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  Unable to care for a child on her own and wanting to avoid the shame and stigma of being a single mother, she drowns the child in the river.

• 12:59Speaker 00

  I feel like there are better options.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 13:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Now, immediately, again, seized with regret, the woman begins crying out for her child, which draws the attention of her neighbors. And after seeing what she's done, the people of her village curse her and throw her out of the village, sending her fleeing into the mountains.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  From that point on, she takes on a spectral form and becomes a vengeful spirit who claims any children who wander too close to the rivers or streams of Venezuela.

• 13:27Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  That one's scary.

• 13:29Speaker 00

  That's all pretty terrifying, to be frank.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Now, although most of the legends involve the death of children by drowning, some don't involve children at all.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  I like those better, I feel.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  In one of the earliest accounts from Mexico, around 1550, the weeping woman is said to be the ghost of Dona Marina of Portugal, who had repented her conspiring with Cortez that led to the colonization of Mexico.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  And was now condemned to wander the streets weeping, quote, "for her sin."

• 13:59Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  So not for children, just weeping.

• 14:01Speaker 00

  Just because she fucked up.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Other variations omit the murder part entirely, focusing instead on the death and grief part.

• 14:08Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  And a variant from Arizona.

• 14:10Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  La Llorona is a widow whose young son drowned while playing by a flooded river. Grief-stricken and changed by her, you know, profound sorrow because of this, the woman wanders the region near the river, seeking to kidnap any small children she sees.

• 14:25Speaker 00

  Not a valid response.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  Not a valid response. According to the legend, quote, "Her fingerprints are found on windows or screens are torn where she tries to enter homes."

• 14:35Speaker 00

  Ew! I thought she was supposed to be by the riverbed.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  That one gave me yuckus.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  Fuck that!

• 14:41Speaker 01

  That one gave me lots of the yuckus.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  Oh, don't tear my screen, ma'am.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't like that.

• 14:46Speaker 00

  That's fucked up.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  And fingerprints on windows.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Bleh, oh, I hate that anyway. That shit pisses me off.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 15:01Speaker 00

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  Now, as these cultures evolved and societies evolved, the story of La Llorona also evolved. Initially, to come into contact with her meant instant death.

• 17:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  But as more people, like, you know, especially because this started, like, way in, like, 1550 and all that, like, when people learned to swim, like, stronger swimmers, when societies and land became less threatening, because back then, everything was threatening.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  True.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Potential contact with La Llorona became less consequential.

• 17:56Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  Now, you would expect just, like, some bad luck if you catch a glimpse of her wandering the banks of the river. Or maybe you'll suffer no consequences at all, and you just have a cool story.

• 18:06Speaker 00

  Oh, wow, that's really, that's quite the toss-up.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  There's still some that, you know, will, will use the story as, like, "Don't go near the river."

• 18:14Speaker 00

  I'd stay away from the river if I lived in any of these ridges.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  I would.

• 18:17Speaker 00

  Why did I just say ridges?

• 18:18Speaker 01

  Ridges.

• 18:19Speaker 00

  If I lived in any of these ridges.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  These ridges.

• 18:22Speaker 00

  Hey, people in these ridges, how you doing?

• 18:28Speaker 01

  People in Arizona are like, "Ash."

• 18:30Speaker 00

  Oh, let's talk about Jenny Green Teeth.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  What the fuck? What the fuck? You're just gonna move on from La Llorona and bring me to a place of Jenny Green Teeth? Question mark?

• 18:42Speaker 00

  Why did it also sound like you were, like, switching into an ad? All right, everybody, today, let's talk about Jenny Green Teeth. With my code, morbid, you can get 20% off your green teeth remedy. The fuck?

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  Tell me about Jenny.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  I'll tell you about Jenny.

• 19:00Speaker 00

  Why she got green teeth?

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Uh, so obviously, bodies of water, like rivers and streams, have always been a pretty common part of life. Particularly for rural or, you know, like, places that we all have been around. Like, you're always around of some kind of body of water somewhere.

• 19:17Speaker 00

  Unless you're landlocked.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Unless you're, but, but like, like little ponds.

• 19:20Speaker 00

  You got streams and shit.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Like, things that don't technically, a crick, the things that don't technically need the ocean to, like, pour into them.

• 19:27Speaker 00

  Fair.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  It makes sense that a lot of cultures would create boogeymen to warn children away from the potential dangers of drowning.

• 19:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  In the English countryside, there have long existed various folktales, like, about goblins, fairies, sea hags, like-

• 19:45Speaker 00

  I love a sea hag.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  That are all said to reach out from the depths and grab small, unattended children, dragging them to a watery grave.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  I always feel like when I'm, like, in a lake or something, that, like, somebody's gonna pull me down.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's why I don't go in lakes.

• 19:58Speaker 00

  I do it for the thrill.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  You just love. I'm, I am risk averse.

• 20:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  So, as we figured out.

• 20:04Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  Now, one such figure-

• 20:06Speaker 00

  Is Jenny Green Teeth?

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Is Jenny Green Teeth.

• 20:08Speaker 00

  I'm not, I need to know everything about this bitch.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Not to be confused with Jenny Garth.

• 20:12Speaker 00

  No.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, so, also known as Wicked Jenny.

• 20:17Speaker 00

  Wicked Jenny. Now, she's from Boston.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Or simply, Grin Teeth.

• 20:21Speaker 00

  Grin Teeth. I was gonna say, I feel like I've known a Wicked Jenny or two. You know what I mean?

• 20:26Speaker 01

  I've known-

• 20:29Speaker 01

  You've definitely known a wicked Jenny. Jenny, are you listening? You've known two such wicked Jennies. Yeah. In recent years that you have come across. Unfortunately. Um, fucking grin teeth. This particular Jenny, Jenny Green Teeth, she's a water hag. Period. Specific to the region in and around Lancashire, England. Oh, that's fun to say Lancashire. Lancashire. According to folklorist Catherine Briggs, Jenny Green Teeth is a variation of the more widely spread stories of the Grindeloh, a supernatural fish-like humanoid. Stop it. Like many water bogies, Jenny was designed to keep children from rivers and ponds.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  And she is said to, quote, seize children in her long, green fangs and drag them down into stagnant pools at the river's edge. Damn. Which is gonna give them brain amebas. So like, that's fucked up. Yeah. If they don't drown first. Yeah. Now, like all. Jenny. That's the most, you know, like, it's not really a threatening name. Like, if you're you and me, it feels that way. Like, her name is Jennifer Green Teeth.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Jennifer P. Green Teeth. Jennifer Green Teeth. Now, like all good boogeymen, boogie people, Jenny Green Teeth, Jennifer Green Teeth have been nasty. Jennifer P. Green Teeth. Has an ambiguous appearance. Aside from her green fucking teeth. Aside from her dental hygiene issues.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  Her appearance tends to change depending on the teller of the story and the time the story is being told. Jenny's versatile. According to one source, Jenny Jennifer had pale skin, pale green skin, green teeth, very long green locks of hair, long green fingers and fingernails. Wow. And she was very thin with a pointed chin and very big eyes, which is a wild visual when you put it all together. It's a lot to take in all at once. Like, that's a lot. Yeah. Now, the exact origins of Jennifer Green Teeth aren't clear, but she appears to date back to the mid to late 18th century as a so-called nursery bogey. Nursery bogey. Her story is intended for very young children. That's not good or recommended.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  It's a lot less detailed and complex than something like La Llorona. Yeah. It's also largely specific to the areas around northeast England and is related to a particular aspect of the landscape. Okay. Figures like La Llorona exist, at least in part, to warn young people away from moving bodies of water, like rivers and streams, where they can be pulled in and legitimately swept away. Yeah. However, in northeast England, a much greater danger to small children are the still pools of stagnant water. Like, that's the issue there, because according to folklorist Roy Vickery, quote, "In summer, such pools are frequently covered by a dense mat composed of thousands of floating duckweed

• 23:21Speaker 01

  plants, so that their surfaces appear to be solid." Oh. "These pools can be quite steep and really difficult to climb out of, so an unsuspecting child could accidentally fall in and have a really hard time getting out, or not even know that it's a pool at all, and think it's a solid surface." Yeah, that's terrifying. So because it's a story for small children, and again, the details are kind of scant, and there aren't a lot of variations of Jenny Green Teeth. According to Vickery, one version of the story claims that, quote, "Jenny had descended from the water spirits of Gothic mythology." I'm obsessed with that. "Whose great seductive beauty was somewhat marred by their green teeth." Just somewhat, just a little bit. It was, it was something you could get past.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  She's a ten, but she's got green teeth, you know? Now, one resident from Liverpool recalled hearing the story as a child, and apparently Jenny would, quote, "Entice little children into the ponds by making them look like grass and safe to walk on." Damn. As soon as the child stepped onto the green, it, of course, parted, and the child fell through into Jenny Green Teeth's clutches and was drowned. The green weed then closed over, hiding all traces that the child had ever been there. That is so fucked up. Which is really scary. According to author Simon Young, there's a variation of the story that appeared in the mid 19th century. Quote, "Nuts were plentiful in our forefathers' days. They were to be met with in the hedges

• 24:46Speaker 01

  enclosing every field and lane, and especially in the clothes, clothes and near brook sides. To deter children from gathering the fruit before it was ripe, they terrified their young imaginations by awful accounts of a demoness, the guardian of young catkins, nuts, and nut trees. In conjunction with her were associated clapcans, who made a loud jarring noise by beating cans with sticks. To restrain their children from venturing too near the numerous pits and pools, which were to be found in every fold and field, a demoness or guardian was stated to crouch at the bottom. She was known as Jenny Green Teeth and was reported to prey upon children who ventured too near her domain."

• 25:31Speaker 01

  She really said, "Stay away from Dee's nuts." Dee's nuts. What the fuck? Where are we right now? What is happening? Of the version, the meaning of the Jenny Green Teeth legend is clear. There are many dangers in the natural world, and some can be quite deceiving. And Jenny will get ya. If you don't keep your wits about you, they might, you might find yourself in serious trouble. Yeah. Don't step on the pool. Now, let's get a little more modern, shall we? Yeah. As early as the 1990s. It was the 90s. The internet allowed users from all over the world to connect with one another through chat programs and message boards. It might have been the worst idea anyone's ever had.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  In 2026, I believe. We fucked up. Yeah. We fucked up. We are too connected, bruh. Here's the thing, I know the idea was awesome. Yeah. So awesome. And in the 90s, we were okay. Hell, yeah. Forget a pen pal. We're not killing it this year. We're not. We're not. But you know what? Back then, you could share stories, both fiction and nonfiction. And in the mid 2000s, a form of scary storytelling known as creepypasta became popular on the website Something Awful. Creepypastas are really fun. Creepypasta, I love creepypastas. Yeah. I wish this is what the internet was all about. Just creepypasta. Just creepypastas and like adorable old people. And little animals. And little animals. Yep. Yeah. And recipes. And recipes. There you go.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  For real pastas. Now, like the folklore and urban legends that came before them, creepypastas were short, generally vague, scary stories that were shared around the internet. Yeah. While most were like, just really cool horror stories, some took the form of an urban legend by purporting that the true, that they were true stories. They had actually happened. They weren't saying, "This is a creepypasta I came up with here, reading it scared." They were like, "No." This girl in my class, her cousin experienced this, and it is 100% true. Which, when you really look at it, is back to the olden days of folklore, saying, "No, this happened once." Yeah. And it gets passed down and down and down, and eventually you can't tell if it happened or not. I honestly love an urban legend. Yeah.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  And again, they would, a lot of times, these certain creepypastas would, they'd say they were true stories, they would locate it in a very specific place, and it would convey some kind of moral message sometimes. Like an urban legend. In the summer of 2009, Something Awful forum user Eric Nudson, I believe it is, writing under a pseudonym, by the way, posted a story about a supernatural boogeyman he called Slender Man. In the original post, he shared two photographs of people walking or playing in the foreground, like two young people. While in the background, an incredibly tall, thin humanoid man in a black suit can be seen just lurking, just watching. Those are original pictures. Fuck me up. Yeah. They're so scary.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  It was a brilliant. Yeah. Brilliant idea. This story, I think it was such a good idea. That's spooky. Because also Slender Man, his face lacks any distinguishing features, which makes it even scarier. Yeah, 100%. And under the second photo, he added the caption, quote, "One of two recovered photographs from the Sterling City Library blaze, notable for being taken the day which 14 children vanished and for what is referred to as the Slender Man." Which is scary, and again, really smart. And you had a fire ring to it. I mean, come on. This is going back to Blair Witch. Yup. That's what Blair Witch marketed themselves as. This really happened.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Here's the pictures, here's the video, here's the audio. You can see how these people came to disappear. Yeah. Which was one of the biggest parts of Blair Witch being what it was. That's what Slender Man was. Yeah. It was like, nobody could tell. Some people knew it was, it wasn't real, but some people didn't know it wasn't real. They were like, is this like, for real? Like, younger kids? They would have no idea. Like, Aiden's like, hi. I'm a gullible bitch. He's like, hi, me. Aiden said, "I believe in Slender Man." And it would be easy to, because it's being told to you, like, here's two fucking photographs. Yeah. And it was in the early days of Photoshop. And you couldn't really, like, fact check it. Yeah. Like, there wasn't that many avenues to go down. Exactly. Like, the internet was just different. It wasn't like 78 gajillion pages, like it is now.

• 30:08Speaker 00

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• 32:19Speaker 00

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• 32:50Speaker 01

  Now, among other things, Slenderman is notable because he is a rare boogeyman whose origins are not only known, but were also created with the intention of hoaxing users of other message boards. The message board thread was created as an invite to users who wanted to contribute, photoshopped images that they could pass off as authentic. Regardless of that origin, Slenderman took hold of people's imaginations in a way that few legends have in recent years.

• 33:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  And maybe it was like, you know, the digital nature of the transmission. It's able to be shared quicker and easier.

• 33:27Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  But it emerged also at a time when fears of children being preyed upon by adults online and scary boogeymen online were at an all time high.

• 33:37Speaker 00

  You know what the like, the precursor to that was? Do you remember those fucking chain text messages?

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:42Speaker 00

  Where it would be like, you have to forward this to like 16 people or this woman will be at the foot of your bed.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Yes. And it was like, and it would, sometimes it would have a scary story to begin with. And it would be like, that's gonna happen to you if you don't forward this.

• 33:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, I used to get so fucking pissed when I would get those.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Chain letters were fucking crazy.

• 33:57Speaker 00

  Oh, they were awful. And you probably got them on email before text was even a thing.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Oh, I didn't even know you were talking about text. I thought you were talking about email.

• 34:04Speaker 00

  I saw that on your face. No, I was, I got them on, I didn't operate, like me and my friends didn't really communicate via email.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  It was all email before.

• 34:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, for us, it was text.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  It was always the like, capital, not capital, capital, not capital writing with like the star, the asterisks and little like, like squiggly lines, like, yeah. Yeah, those were terrifying.

• 34:22Speaker 00

  Ugh.

• 34:22Speaker 01

  Now, in the years that followed, the legend of Slenderman evolved on message boards and websites all over the world. Again, when it comes to Slenderman, there is endless lore.

• 34:33Speaker 00

  I know it, there really is. You could go on for days.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and what's cool is it's like, it kept getting added to. Like, it was such a fun, it was almost, it was just like this big, community-based, like, grand story that kept like, just getting bigger and better and scarier and more complex.

• 34:51Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Uh, but to distill some of it into something, just because there is so much to it and you don't want to just like skim over it. Uh, and I heard this from, Aiden told us this whole lore because he was like, part of this like, whole community in the beginning, like, loved this stuff when it came out.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  Like, he was like, the perfect age for this.

• 35:10Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Um, on June 20th, 2009, the first video of a YouTube web series came out. It was created by Troy Wagner, Joseph Delage, and Tim Sutton. Um, and it came from the images on the Something Awful forum of Slenderman. Now, this series kind of revolved around a film student named Jay who was investigating this unfinished film from his friend Alex. And he was doing this by reviewing various tapes from the project. And during the course of the film, he realizes why the project was canceled.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  And it gives this like, really good, like, early aughts, like, text on the screen beginning, explaining to you that this was a film that was canceled and it was, you know, he was reviewing the tapes and like Alex was starting to become paranoid and like losing his grip.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  It kind of gives you, it gave me, uh, like Hell House LLC vibes, especially because the main character's name is Alex, the one that was losing grip on reality.

• 36:11Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  And in Hell House LLC, Alex is the one that's like pushing them further into the haunted house.

• 36:16Speaker 00

  And it starts off with like, those like, like investigators, like asking everybody questions, yeah.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  I was like, that's fun. Now, apparently, the reason it was canceled was Alex had come in contact with an entity that was referred to as the Operator.

• 36:30Speaker 00

  The Operator.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  Which I do love that. Uh, this was a different name given to the Slenderman. Now, the series, it just like built more on that lore. Like I was saying, it like, just added to it. And it also built off of the lore that was already there online about Slenderman. And one of the biggest parts of the lore that we had briefly mentioned when speaking about the Slenderman stabbing case.

• 36:52Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Was the idea of proxies.

• 36:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Because when taken out of real world horror and brought into like, a more fictional horror world, the idea of a proxy with this kind of entity is really cool.

• 37:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  And like, very interesting and like, a fun addition to it. I hate that it was taken out into the real world and turned into something violent and awful.

• 37:17Speaker 00

  Right.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Uh, but apparently proxies, the whole idea of it actually was like a misinterpretation by fans, um, because like, because of how characters in the series were acting or behaving.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Fans interpreted that they were acting brainwashed and as brainwashed servants of the Slenderman himself, like he was controlling them.

• 37:37Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Uh, so that would later lead to fan fictions online with fans writing about this kind of proxy situation going on. But then like, how they were being elected to become the next proxy for Slenderman.

• 37:52Speaker 00

  That's like fun, but also so scary.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  So scary, but so fun.

• 37:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  Until it's taken out in the real world and damaging human beings. It's like, keep it where it belongs.

• 38:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, keep it.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Fiction be fiction, everybody.

• 38:05Speaker 00

  Writing.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Now, in 2012, and I remember this because Aiden actually showed me this game and I remember vividly being like, this is so scary.

• 38:14Speaker 00

  Oh no.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  It was in 2012, Slender the Eight Pages came out. It was a, it was like a fan game where the player could collect eight pages in this dark woods, like this dark creepy forest. You had to go find the eight pages without being caught by Slenderman.

• 38:29Speaker 00

  Uh.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  It is so scary and the pages in the game were based on notes and scribbles left from characters in the Marble Hornets series, which is what that web series was.

• 38:42Speaker 00

  So it came full circle.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, so that original series that was the web series on YouTube.

• 38:46Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Those pages are like from that.

• 38:48Speaker 00

  Oh, that's fun.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  So it kind of expanded on that.

• 38:51Speaker 00

  Like an Easter egg kind of vibe?

• 38:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it was genuinely terrifying.

• 38:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Like, I remember Aiden showing me this and I was like, huh! Like, I was like, what the fuck? I don't know if I can do this. And with the gaming scene at that time really kind of exploding, it was like gaining a lot of popularity. And then Slenderman was kind of starting to like, kind of figuratively reach his tentacles out into different forms all over the web and, you know, becoming far less, more common to run across while you were on the internet. This game really relied on this anticipatory scare where you would be running around.

• 39:27Speaker 00

  In this dark forest.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Trying to find these pages and he's anywhere. And when he would find you, it was like, the whole screen would go static and it was loud and jarring and he would like, attack you. So it was just like, ah!

• 39:40Speaker 00

  I hate it.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  So, but that's like the perfect kind of game for like, YouTubers to play.

• 39:45Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  And stream for like, tons of views. Cause you're, you're anticipating it along with them, waiting for them to get caught. So it was that kind of like, beginning of that kind of thing. And this is where Slenderman went like, really mainstream at that point.

• 39:58Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now, unfortunately, this was all like, really fun. This is how humans should operate.

• 40:06Speaker 00

  It was kind of like, not lighthearted, but like, in a way it was.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Lighthearted in the sense that like, this is horror.

• 40:13Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  And it's supposed to scare you. It's supposed to be something that you go, ooh, is this real? Is it not real? Like, it's supposed to be something fun like that.

• 40:19Speaker 00

  Right.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, the legend of Slenderman took a terrible and tragic turn in 2014. When two 12-year-old Wisconsin girls, Morgan Geyser and Anisa Weir, used the legend as an excuse to stab their friend and try to kill their friend, quote, "in order to please Slenderman."

• 40:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  According to the press, in May 2014, the two of them lured their friend, 12-year-old Peyton Luitner, into the woods and stabbed her 19 times. I need you to remember, these are three 12-year-olds.

• 40:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, we covered this before.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they left her for dead. Peyton managed to crawl to the road where she was discovered by bicyclists who called 911. And when they were asked why they did it, they claimed, quote, "They wanted to prove themselves worthy of Slenderman." In their interview to police, they claimed that they believed Slenderman was real and they wanted to become, quote unquote, "proxies," thereby proving his existence to countless skeptics online.

• 41:20Speaker 00

  Jesus.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  They spent months talking about this plan, choosing a victim and plotting every detail of their intended murder. And again, that's very rare behavior for, that's very rare behavior for girls, especially young girls of their age. In 2017, Morgan Geyser agreed to plead guilty to attempted first-degree murder. And in doing that, she avoided jail time and was instead sentenced to 40 years in a psychiatric facility. Anisa Weir went to trial and a jury determined that she was mentally ill at the time of the attack. She was sentenced to 25 years in a psychiatric facility. Now, Slenderman evolved from a traditional boogeyman to something entirely different.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  He was no longer a source of fear or social control, but was now a motivation for violent behavior. The exact opposite of what a boogeyman is supposed to be.

• 42:13Speaker 00

  Right.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  The stabbing incident set off a short-lived moral panic in which parents became exceedingly worried about what their children were doing online, to which I say, you probably should have done that to begin with.

• 42:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  That's just me, though. At the same time, the violence inspired by the character took away most of its power. And by the end of the decade, most of the online community that had given rise to Slenderman had kind of moved on from him. Which is so sad that it got, one, that you can't, that it's like it took away the fun of that, you know, that whole lore and everything? And that these girls would take it to such a place to then destroy the life of Peyton.

• 42:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Who now, I'm sure, you can come across Slenderman any old place, you know, like on the internet, it's in a lot of places still.

• 43:07Speaker 00

  Or even like in like, he's on like shirts and shit.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, like it's a thing. So it's like, now Peyton has to sit there and live her entire life, she's a badass, by the way.

• 43:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  But she has to live her entire life worried about coming across an image of that. I can't imagine what that would do to you.

• 43:24Speaker 00

  Insanely triggered.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:25Speaker 00

  And it's just like, what the fuck?

• 43:27Speaker 01

  Now, again, from the visceral fears of child death contained within the legends of La Llorona and Jenny Green Teeth, to the anxieties of modern dangers that are in the legend of Slenderman, the boogeyman has completely crossed cultures all over the world for centuries. But, again, these are only a few of the endless list of bogies that have haunted societies for as long as people could tell stories. I mean, there's some wild ones that we're going to talk about the next time.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  I'm so excited.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  There's one called the Sackman.

• 44:02Speaker 00

  I think I've heard of Sackman.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Yep, there's Kate Cracker Nuts.

• 44:06Speaker 00

  Haven't heard of her.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  English lore.

• 44:08Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Bloody Bones and Rawhead from the American South.

• 44:13Speaker 00

  Bloody Bones, Rawhead, sounds like that Rob Zombie film.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:18Speaker 00

  It sure does. 31, right?

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does, maybe he would be part of that.

• 44:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're going to cover some of those.

• 44:24Speaker 00

  Hell, yeah. I like this, let's boogie.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Let's boogie. We just dipped our toes in today, so hopefully you guys thought this was fun, especially for spooky season for some bonuses. This is really fun.

• 44:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, those are just some bogies.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  Period. Let us know if you loved this and don't let us know if you didn't.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:45Speaker 00

  Only if you loved it.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  All right, guys, well, happy bonus episode. We love you, we hope you keep listening.

• 44:50Speaker 00

  And we hope you.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Keep it weird.

• 44:53Speaker 00

  But not so weird that you didn't want to boogie with us.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Let's boogie.

• 44:56Speaker 00

  Let's boogie, baby.

• 46:33Speaker 00

  Nearly 50 years after Stephen King's Carrie became a cultural phenomenon, Mike Flanagan is reimagining the iconic story for a new generation. After her father's sudden death, Carrie White enters public school for the first time and must navigate a viral bullying scandal, the relentless pressure of the social media age, and the awakening of mysterious telekinetic powers that rise alongside her adolescence. You know, the usual. Carrie is a story about how small acts of cruelty snowball into something catastrophic, a theme that feels as painfully relevant today as it did 50 years ago. I feel like maybe even a little bit more because we are all hooked on social media and we all know that can be a terrifying place, but not quite as terrifying as the prom scene. Carrie is now streaming on Prime Video.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  Oh, look, you just got added to a meeting about coordinating another meeting to prepare for the pre-meeting ahead of the follow-up meeting, which will, of course, require a recap meeting and then another meeting. Hit your booking point, book with Southwest and enter airplane mode.