Episode Revisit- The Tragic Case of Molly Bish & Morbid Chats with Heather Bish

Today we are revisiting the tragic case of Molly Bish and combing it with the followup episode with Molly's sister, Heather.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:47Speaker 00

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• 2:47Speaker 01

  Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid. This is Morbid.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  That felt like the old times when I would say it. Yeah, it did. Yeah. I don't know what it was. Just a little, a little more simplistic than I usually do. It's just something about today. Yeah, well, it's nighttime and we don't usually record at night. We don't. It's something spooky, something nostalgic about it. Yeah. It's, it's like the first time that we like recorded. And you know what? Speaking of nostalgia, I just had to say, um, in case, I just wanted to let everybody know that we, there was like, there's a few episodes in our back catalog that I'm like, you know, we always talk about how we were like underwater and our sound quality was terrible. You all know, you all loved it. I'm not gonna, don't worry, because people, I remember I mentioned it once and people were like, don't like take out any of the old episodes or like redo them because they like show your growth. Yeah.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Which is awesome. Like, I love that. I love that people said that. That's really cool. And I'm not, I'm not gonna like remove all these episodes or anything, but we are gonna be like trying to remaster a few of them and make them sound a little better, just so new people who come to the podcast aren't hearing that as their first gateway. Cause not to stay. Yeah, not everybody is as forgiving, you know? Like, so we just wanna like try to make it better. And there's a couple that like, I was listening to them and not only is the sound quality bad, but like, I was like, you know, I feel like I've read more about that case now and like I didn't include these details that I wish I did. Yeah. That, you know what I mean? And it's just like, it's, I just wanna do it better. So if you see things getting moved around in our back catalog or like, you know, updated

• 4:31Speaker 01

  at all, don't be like, oh my God, where did that episode go? It's coming back. It's just, we're gonna be like. It's being tweaked. Yeah, we're gonna be tweaking some episodes here and there and we'll let you know. Like, guess what? You didn't need to know about my vanilla chai at salon, at the salon. You didn't. I almost just said the exact. Yeah, like there's, there's a few episodes where I was listening back to them and I was like, yeah, we went on like too far of a tangent sometime. I think it's just like for our own, like, it just doesn't represent what we wanted to represent all the time. So, uh, I just wanna let you guys know, just in case you were like, where did that episode go or why is that episode suddenly slightly different? Excuse me, ma'am. But don't worry, once, when we update episodes or, you know, remaster them, redo them, we're gonna let you know.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  So unlike the, whatever episode I do at the next week, I'll be like, hey, by the way, guys, go check out that episode, cause we redid it. Yeah. So you won't be in the dark, you'll know. Love that. But I just wanna let you know. So you're, you know, we're all in this together. We are. Wanted you to know what's going on behind the scenes. Well, just trying to make it a little more palatable for everybody in the back catalog there. Well, and because we're all in this together, let's talk about the fact that some of you are like, why the fuck did you refund my show? Why did you just give me money? What's happening? So basically what we're doing right now is that almost every single venue and like show that we had, we're still going to do them. But right now, we are refunding you because we have no idea when it's gonna be acceptable to gather in large crowds.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, and these places don't wanna hold your money hostage while we try to figure out. No. What dates are happening, you know, like when it's gonna happen? Yeah. And you know what? Maybe we'll do different venues in those same places, but find like, oh, maybe like a fun cemetery. Yeah, we're gonna make it a little like, or like. A dark cave. Creative about it. So if we were coming to your city and you had tickets, please don't worry, like, we're not like, we're not coming, like, sorry. Bye. That would have been fun. Bye. No, we're going to, we just, we don't wanna, we don't want those venues like hanging on to your money while we try to figure out what dates this is gonna happen to, cause that's not really fair. No. And also, we, like Ash said, we're trying to like change up the venue a little in the same cities.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  We want it to be a little more of like an experience. Yes. We have ideas. We've had a lot of time with COVID to like really talk about it and like really conceptualize some fun things. The amount of Pinterest boards that I have. Yeah. And then, um, the only one that you're not going to, you're not gonna get refunded. No. The only one where you're not gonna see a refund is Boston because we still plan to do that show. Yeah, the Wilbur is happening. Not on that date, most likely. Yes, not this month. In fact, when I say most likely, I mean at all. Absolutely not. Yeah, that's gonna be rescheduled. So that will be rescheduled. So just hang on to that because we will update you as soon as we know. The Wilbur's just like a little up in the air right now when this can all happen.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  And we don't want like 1,200 of you to like gather and have us be the reason. That's our thing. It's just, I don't, we, we really don't wanna like encourage people to gather too soon. No, it seems a little hypocritical. We're getting to a place of like. We're almost there. Like, we're getting to a place of vaccine and a place of herd immunity. Yeah. And we wanna just let that ride out for a little while so that everybody can feel safe. Yes. Everybody can feel comfortable. So that I don't have to hear a single one of you sneeze during my fucking set. That's it. That's all it is. Is that Ash doesn't wanna hear a sneeze or a cough during it. No, no, I'm totally kidding. It's because we care about you and, you know, we care about ourselves. We don't. We care about your babies. We don't want anybody getting sick.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  So, and we don't wanna encourage it. No. Before it's okay. So we can't wait, like, trust me. Oh, I am craving it. Can't wait. But again, we just wanna be responsible. We wanna be fair to everybody. So if you see those refunds coming in. That's what that is. That's what that is. And look out, cause we'll let you know as soon as we're coming back. Oh my God, that just scared the shit out of me. It was a ladybug. So it's on, like, we have these little like, um, sound things so that we don't, we're not echoey and it's in front of me. And all of a sudden, I just see this creepy crawly going up the side. I'm like, what the fuck is that? And it's a ladybug. It was just a ladybug. Yeah, it's just a lovely little ladybug. Hi, girl. Hi, girl. Um, so I think that was all the business, right? I think so, yeah. Yeah. And like, even if there's more, like, too much time, bye. So let's get into it.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  I had mentioned last week that, you know, we weren't gonna do Venus Extravaganza right quite now because. Yeah. Not the right time. And then, so what I did was I went, um, back on the Patreon, cause it was, the Venus Extravaganza was a Patreon pick and I still wanted the Patreon to feel like they got their full month's picks. For sure. So I went on the original post where everybody was like picking their things and I was like, what cases were like super, super requested? And the two that were the most requested were the Molly Bish story and Dominique Dunn. So what I'm gonna do is, uh, the popular vote, I hate to even say that, was Molly Bish. And so obviously, I'm gonna do that today. And then next week, I'm gonna do the Dominique Dunn story. Woo.

• 9:38Speaker 00

  So without further ado, Molly Ann Bish was born on August 2nd, 1983. Her parents are John Senior and Maggie Bish.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Adorable names.

• 9:48Speaker 00

  And Maggie is Maggie with an I.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 9:51Speaker 00

  Full name is Magdalena, I believe.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  Or Magdalena. I wrote Maggie for most of this. So yeah, she had two older siblings, Heather and John Junior. And the family was originally from Detroit, but Maggie and John decided that it just wasn't the best place for them to raise their young kids. And actually, something that made a huge impact on their decision to move was the abduction of a young girl who lived close by.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 10:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 10:16Speaker 00

  Yep. So they moved to a quiet Massachusetts town called Warren. Have you ever been there?

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Ever heard of it? Yeah, I have been to Warren.

• 10:23Speaker 00

  It is literally like, it's like a different world. It's like Oklahoma, I feel.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's so quaint.

• 10:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's very quaint. It's like beautiful.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:30Speaker 00

  So John Senior actually worked as a police officer and Maggie was able to stay at home with the kids until her youngest, Molly, started kindergarten. And Maggie said that there were two sides to Molly. She could be like really shy or she could be super funny. And she compared her humor to like Lucy from I Love Lucy.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that.

• 10:48Speaker 00

  She was like, that was Molly's kind of funny.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  She's Lucille Ball. That's a great icon to be compared to humor wise.

• 10:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, huge compliment.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  So good for her.

• 10:55Speaker 00

  She sounded like she must've been hilarious.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, hot shit.

• 10:58Speaker 00

  Now Molly was the kind of girl to include everybody. Her mom said that she never wanted anyone left out and that people were just naturally drawn to Molly. She had one of those like faces, personalities, energies that people wanted to be around her.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  She did have one of those faces.

• 11:12Speaker 00

  She is.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Every time you see a picture of her, you're like, oh.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  She's like drop dead. Like she was beautiful.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  And you just want to know her.

• 11:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, she just like, you know how like you can tell somebody's a nice person?

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:21Speaker 00

  Like, there's no way you're mean.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it just radiates.

• 11:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't have that face. So Molly was not only a kind, funny kid, she was also a talented athlete. She played softball, soccer, basketball.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 11:33Speaker 00

  And on top of all of that, she was also an honor student.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 11:37Speaker 00

  And she was an honor student that hoped to someday work with children. That was like what she wanted to do.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Stop.

• 11:42Speaker 00

  So she was outgoing. She was popular among her friends in high school. She had a boyfriend that she had recently gone to prom with, and this was summer now, and everybody was going to be heading into their senior year that fall. So in the meantime, that summer, Molly wanted to work as a lifeguard at a nearby pond. And her brother, John, had actually worked as a lifeguard at Commons Pond too. And he was the one who got her set up for working.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 00

  I think he had worked there for like the three years before she started working there.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 12:10Speaker 00

  So it was almost like, not like a family gig, but like, like her brother like passed down his job.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  So he showed her how to set up for the day. He laughed remembering like teaching her how to look for snakes, which I thought was adorable. And he showed her.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Terrifying and adorable.

• 12:24Speaker 00

  I know, I hate snakes. He showed her just like the ins and outs of the job. So Molly had been working for a week and she was enjoying it. And then on the morning of June 27th, 2000, she got bad news. Her mother, she was like getting ready for work and her mother had to tell her that one of her friends that she played soccer with was actually in the hospital in critical condition and she had been hit by a car while she was riding her bike.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 12:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was like very serious. So Molly was obviously super upset, but it was too late to call into work and there were going to be swim lessons that day and she didn't want to miss them. She was like excited about them. So she made like a super responsible decision to go in for her shift.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 13:03Speaker 00

  Which at 16 years old, I feel like that was the really like mature decision to make.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  It really was.

• 13:08Speaker 00

  I think that says a lot about her.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it would have been much easier to make the other decision.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  For sure. So Maggie drove Molly to the police station to pick up the two-way radio that the lifeguards would use. They would like use it to contact the police if there was an emergency.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:21Speaker 00

  And they also stopped to grab a couple of water bottles. When they got to the pond, Molly told her mom she loved her and ran up to her post to set up for the day. So by 10 AM, the swimmers, who Molly was like looking forward to helping and looking after, they arrived at the pond, but there was no lifeguard on duty.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 13:39Speaker 00

  Yeah. So the parents of the swimmers were like, that's weird. And one of the moms took the post herself for the time being because somebody had to do it.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  And she saw that there were flip flops in the sand by the post and that the two-way radio was there, a first aid kit was there, and there was a backpack. And actually, the first aid kit was open.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  So it's very clear that there was a lifeguard there at one point.

• 14:00Speaker 00

  It's very clear that Molly was there.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:02Speaker 00

  And had set up for the day. Like I said, it seemed like somebody had been there to set up and then just vanished.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  I hate this case.

• 14:09Speaker 00

  This case is.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  I'm already just like, ugh.

• 14:11Speaker 00

  I know, I'm literally wrapped in a blanket right now and I have chills. So Molly's boss was informed that she was nowhere to be found. So he contacted the police when she didn't show up. Which like, okay. I'm like, why didn't you also call her parents? But whatever.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I didn't even think about.

• 14:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. So the police immediately assumed that Molly had ran off with friends, even though there was nothing about her character that like could have aided in that abrupt decision.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  That she was suddenly just abandoning her job and run out with friends.

• 14:38Speaker 00

  She'd been working for a week. She'd never done that before.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Like, yeah. She just, it didn't come off like she was the, I mean, she's 16, I guess. I don't know if that's just like.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  That's literally in my notes.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Of course, she's very responsible and she seems like a more responsible 16 year old.

• 14:53Speaker 00

  But they don't know her.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  She's still a 16 year old, so they're probably just like.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  And that's how they looked at it. Literally, I wrote like the stereotype of 16 year old girls. They were like, she ran off, they knew, I think they knew that her friend had been in the hospital. They're like, maybe that's what happened.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:06Speaker 00

  I don't know. But that wasn't Molly. She wouldn't do that.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  No.

• 15:09Speaker 00

  So when Molly still hadn't turned up by one o'clock, one o'clock PM at this point, the police contacted her parents to let them know what was going on. So it's been three hours since Maggie's dropped her daughter off and she has no idea that like.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  That they can't find her.

• 15:23Speaker 00

  Two minutes after she left, like something happened.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  And it happens so quick.

• 15:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. Because the first swimmers arrived like a little bit after 10, like a few minutes after 10.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the part that really gets me about this. Somebody. How quickly this happened.

• 15:38Speaker 00

  Somebody had, in my opinion, somebody had been watching her for a little while.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Knew the routine.

• 15:44Speaker 00

  Knew the routine, knew what time she got there. And we'll see later on that there's like a point where like, um, they could have been hiding and like Maggie wouldn't have seen them and neither Molly.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 15:56Speaker 00

  So we'll, we'll get into it. Yeah, so they contacted her parents to let them know what's going on, but they still believed that she would turn up and had just gone off with her friends. And Maggie and all of her family are like, no. So Maggie called Molly's older sister Heather. Now Maggie's the mom, just, I think the Ms. Get a little confusing.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  Maggie calls Molly's older sister Heather to let her know what's going on. And Heather promptly heads over to help her mom search for Molly. They knew something wasn't right about this entire situation and they were like, if nobody else is going to investigate, then like, fuck it, we will.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 16:29Speaker 00

  So they started contacting Molly's friends. They went to her boyfriend's house. They checked to see if she had visited that friend in the hospital. Nope, nope, nope. She wasn't anywhere that they looked. Nobody had heard from her. Nobody said like they heard that she was going to go here or there anywhere.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:45Speaker 00

  Like this wasn't a case of she just checked out. Now, the police proposed that maybe she had drowned, which they were like, her family was like, I know, like, first of all, it's a pond. So like.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:56Speaker 00

  And she's a.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  She's a lifeguard.

• 16:58Speaker 00

  She's a lifeguard. And they were like.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Not that lifeguards can't drown, but it's like.

• 17:02Speaker 00

  Of course they can, but they were like, no, she's a very strong swimmer. And it's not like there was weather that day or anything where the water, like the pond water would have gotten rough.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  When would she have drowned?

• 17:12Speaker 00

  Well, that's the problem.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  She just arrived at her post.

• 17:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, it, it didn't really make any sense. I think that they just.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  You gotta, you gotta think of anything at this point.

• 17:20Speaker 00

  Right. You want an answer. You're not going to immediately be like, she was abducted, which.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  You're going to hope that's.

• 17:25Speaker 00

  Maybe you should treat it like that, but I'm not a police officer.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  I feel like you should just overreact.

• 17:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Always overreact.

• 17:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. You know, but so her brother, John, even got in the water to search for his sister himself. He was diving all around, trying to find any sign of Molly. The investigators actually made him come out so that they could bring in their boats and divers. They looked and looked and looked. Molly had not drowned. She was not anywhere in that water. And then Maggie remembered something that would haunt this case for like the next 20 years to come. A white car had been parked in the lot that, um, in the lot the day earlier, so the previous day.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 18:03Speaker 00

  And the man sitting inside, it really freaked Maggie out. So much so that she actually didn't leave Molly alone until the car left.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 18:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. She said that she saw a man sitting in a white parked car, smoking a cigarette, and she saw him staring. And actually, most of the articles that I read said glaring at Molly.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  What the fuck?

• 18:22Speaker 00

  Yeah. And she said there was immediately this horrible feeling in her gut while she stared back at the man like a self-proclaimed mama bear, like, like trying this with my daughter, like. So he stared right back at her and then finally drove away.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Oh, that would, I'd be way too horrified by that.

• 18:40Speaker 00

  But I think she was like, well, John worked here for like three years and like,

• 18:43Speaker 01

  I mean, you're not going to think this person is like,

• 18:46Speaker 00

  No.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  gonna come back.

• 18:47Speaker 00

  Of course not.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Your immediate, like hindsight right now, I'm like, oh, but it's like, in the moment, you're gonna be like, he's gone.

• 18:54Speaker 00

  Right, he's gone.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  That was weird.

• 18:55Speaker 00

  That was weird. Yeah. And actually, the morning that Molly went missing, Maggie was relieved because when they got there, there was a sand delivery truck. So she was like, okay, Molly, she was like, I wasn't gonna leave her alone after that had happened that day.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  But now I see that there's,

• 19:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  there's, there's workers here, there's other people.

• 19:11Speaker 00

  And she, actually Molly had arrived a little bit late that day. Like I think she was supposed to be there before 10. So she was like, the swimmers are gonna be here any minute.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:19Speaker 00

  She's not alone.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:21Speaker 00

  And so the day before she had actually walked Molly to her post and hung out for a while until she was sure that the creepy man had driven off. And she was able to give all the details of the man's features to a sketch artist and a composite sketch was made, showing an older man with a large mustache, dark eyes and salt and pepper hair, holding a cigarette.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  Ew.

• 19:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Just picturing it and I'm like, no.

• 19:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. So the first one was done and she was like, cool. But they actually had a second sketch artist come in named, I believe it's Jean Boylan. And we'll post that one because that is like the most well-known in the case. Like if you're Googling it right now.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, I know this one.

• 19:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's the one by, I believe it's Jean.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Oh, that's so horrifying.

• 20:03Speaker 00

  He's terrifying.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I hate it.

• 20:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. So by this point, the police, the Warren police are realizing that they have a missing persons case on their hands. And they decide to bring in the state police because Warren didn't, Warren's like, we said in the beginning, a quaint little quiet town, like, nothing like this happens here.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. And that's the other reason why I'm sure it wasn't the first thing that popped in her head that this guy is gonna like come back and do something. It's like this,

• 20:26Speaker 00

  This is a quiet town.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  It's a quiet town. Like it doesn't happen a lot here. That is a thing.

• 20:31Speaker 00

  Right. But I mean, I was like, really happy to see that the Warren police were like, you know what, we don't have expertise in this area. Let's bring in the state police. Cause I feel like we have talked about so many cases where they're like, nope, we can handle it.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Egos get into the, in the way. It's so nice when, because we've had a few that have done this, which it's like, thank goodness. Because it's like when they let the egos go and they're like, we need some help. We can't handle this.

• 20:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:54Speaker 00

  Like not to say that there weren't mistakes made during the investigation.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 20:57Speaker 00

  Definitely were, but you know.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  But at least they handed, they, you know.

• 21:02Speaker 00

  Gotta give credit where credit's due.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 21:04Speaker 00

  So the first night came and went, obviously without Molly's return. Molly's father, John Bish, said, quote, "It's hard for me to describe, to describe that sinking hollow feeling you have as divers are looking for your daughter, as dogs are combing through the woods and police officers are searching and interviewing people." And I almost immediately began to think that something really horrible had happened.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  I never, ever can put myself in that state of mind.

• 21:29Speaker 00

  No.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  I can't. And anytime I hear it, I'm like, I don't, I just wanna like hug these people.

• 21:34Speaker 00

  I know. Well, this like makes me actually wanna hug you and we're not even huggers because I like almost started crying when I read this. Molly's sister Heather remembered how surreal that first night was. And she said that she kept going outside, just like thinking maybe and hoping that her sister's kidnapper was just gonna like drop her off. Cause you think like, it's like when you've done something and you're like, crap, why did I do that? Can I rewind? Like, you know that feeling?

• 21:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:57Speaker 00

  But in, in like this case, she's like, maybe this will happen, like in a perfect world.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Maybe it'll just happen.

• 22:02Speaker 00

  Right. And Heather and her sister had started to become like, because Heather was a little bit older. And so they were starting to get closer because now Molly was getting older and they were kinda, Heather said, like having, establishing a more like adult sister relationship.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's always fun when that happens, actually. Cause that happened with like, you know, with us.

• 22:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  And then it also happened with like me and my brother, like eight years apart.

• 22:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  And when we got to that like point where you're like suddenly at this good place where like you get each other's humor now and you're like, cool and like you can hang out.

• 22:32Speaker 00

  Cause the older person is like, oh, you're like a real person now.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  I can chill with you now. Like it's, I'm not just making fun of you all the time. Like I can actually hang out with you.

• 22:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, like you're just like a little tag along.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I remember that point with JP and I was like, oh.

• 22:45Speaker 00

  I know. That is the best.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:46Speaker 00

  I remember that point, like even with my little sister.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  It happens in every sibling relationship.

• 22:51Speaker 00

  It does. So the next day, there was a massive search. There were helicopters, search dogs, tons of people heading out promptly at 6:00 AM to find Molly. Businesses printed out missing persons flyers, neighbors joined in on the search. People tied yellow ribbons throughout the neighborhood.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  I remember that.

• 23:08Speaker 00

  And oh my God, this broke my heart. I saw an interview with Maggie, or it might've been a quote where she said, like the yellow ribbons floating throughout the air, like later on, they, they discover some remains. And she was like, it was almost like Molly's hair like flowing in the wind.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:24Speaker 00

  And she was like, it was like, she was there before we knew that she wasn't there.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  Oh, that just gave me like full chills.

• 23:31Speaker 00

  It gave me, I don't know why it reminded me of the lovely bones, but it did.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  No, it does.

• 23:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  100% it does.

• 23:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:37Speaker 00

  Cause you're seeing like the family's grieving.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:40Speaker 00

  This case really.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Cause I remember when this was all going on and the family, you were just like, your heart shattered for them.

• 23:47Speaker 00

  We're from Massachusetts, so there's that other like,

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Always.

• 23:50Speaker 00

  You're my like, you're my family almost.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  You're my Massachusetts family. So it's like, I feel like, I, I feel so empathetic.

• 23:57Speaker 00

  This family actually reminds me so much of our family, just like based on like things that I've seen. And I'm like, oh.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:03Speaker 00

  It's just, oh. It's horrible. So yeah, but nothing turned up. So the, excuse me, the scene back at the beach was essentially demolished because, number one, nobody thought that, like it was, it took too long to become a crime scene in the first place. Cause they were like, oh, she ran away. And even before anybody knew anything, there's already like swimmers that are coming for the day.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  The day is beginning.

• 24:25Speaker 00

  The mom set up at the lifeguard post because she didn't know what was going on.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Of course not.

• 24:29Speaker 00

  So, you know, it was just demolished. So they tried to get what they could get. But the other thing is,

• 24:33Speaker 01

  So compromised.

• 24:34Speaker 00

  It's a fricking beach. There's sand everywhere. Like what are you gonna get really?

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. Out, I mean, outdoor crime scenes, forget about it anyways. It's always harder, but then you add like next to the water.

• 24:44Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  With, you know, you're next to the water, it's windier.

• 24:47Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  There's, there's moisture around. Like it's just takes.

• 24:50Speaker 00

  It's a nightmare. But something that really bothered the investigators working of like what they had of a scene was that the first aid kit was open. Like I said, why was it open? Like it was just some, like a little detail that will become much bigger.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. When you said it, at first I was like, that's strange.

• 25:05Speaker 00

  It's just a little weird.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:07Speaker 00

  Well, and what they wondered was maybe somebody approached Molly and gained her trust by like leading her to believe that they were injured in some way, like,

• 25:15Speaker 01

  Ted Bundy.

• 25:16Speaker 00

  Oh, you have a Band-Aid or do you have this? And got her to like grab something, hop down from her post and help them. And then they probably just scooped her up.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  Honestly, that seems so likely.

• 25:27Speaker 00

  It absolutely does.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Because it's like a Ted Bundy thing. They prey on somebody who will help them.

• 25:32Speaker 00

  Right. And I mean, she's a lifeguard, like,

• 25:34Speaker 01

  And she's like,

• 25:35Speaker 00

  And she's like, that's my job. And she's a sweet girl, so.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's a kind person. Of course she's gonna help. She has a first aid kit.

• 25:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  And it's a perfect way. Cause I always thought that too was like the lifeguard post, you're like, oh, well, you're high in the air. That's like a good, place to be, I guess, if you're being attacked. Cause it's like, they have to get you down.

• 25:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  But to get her down, that's a perfect way to do it.

• 25:57Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  They knew it's much harder to get them down.

• 26:00Speaker 00

  Right.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  So it, that's,

• 26:02Speaker 00

  They preyed on.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  It even worse.

• 26:03Speaker 00

  They preyed on her kindness.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:05Speaker 00

  Now, right off the bat, so they're thinking that's weird, but obviously they have to clear the people that they know exist.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 26:11Speaker 00

  So her boss and her boyfriend were the first people looked into as like people of interest, but they both had either alibis or passed their polygraph test. So they were quickly like, no, it wasn't them. Now with the news of the lurking man in the car, there was a roadblock set up and a tip line established. So people were obviously calling in to say all kinds of things. Obviously we have like the people that just wanna call because they're born on a Tuesday. And they're like, I saw Molly in like Wisconsin or I saw her here. Like they were just saying like all parts of the country.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  I hate that people do that.

• 26:42Speaker 00

  Acting like she was a runaway. It's like,

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Don't.

• 26:44Speaker 00

  Get a life.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Just don't do it.

• 26:45Speaker 00

  Get a hobby.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Seriously, like,

• 26:47Speaker 00

  A different hobby.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  Like, can you for one second, but like understand that this girl has a family?

• 26:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  Like you're destroying every time you do that. Like,

• 26:56Speaker 00

  And here's the deal. She could have still been alive while you're calling in that tip that she's halfway across the country or something like that. And then they're looking into that and that's precious time wasted.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 27:07Speaker 00

  Where they could have potentially rescued her. We don't know what happened.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  That's, that's the thing. It always derails the investigation because it sends it sometimes on a wild goose chase.

• 27:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  And it's like, and while they're looking into this, some shit is going down over here.

• 27:20Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  It's just so aggravating.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  I just don't understand like what you gain from that.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  I don't get people's mentality that do that shit.

• 27:27Speaker 00

  No, it's infuriating.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  That's some shady shit.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  And I'm, I just can't imagine like sorting through the tips and being like, being the one to determine what we're gonna go after and what we're not. That must, that's like a really hard job, I would assume.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  Thing. Yeah.

• 27:41Speaker 00

  So yeah, some people are saying she's halfway across the country, but other people reported that they had seen that white car, at the cemetery a few days prior with a man in it who looked similar to the sketch. And then some people say that he was near the pond just a couple of minutes before Maggie and Molly arrived.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  Yeah. And there was actually a trail on the beach leading to that cemetery. I think it was like, one article I read said it was like a fork in the beach and like one side of it led to that cemetery.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  And he's a, the sketch is like very, like you would know.

• 28:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  You would know that guy.

• 28:23Speaker 00

  He has a very, he honestly looks like Matilda's dad.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  He kind of does.

• 28:28Speaker 00

  Like a little bit.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Like Danny DeVito.

• 28:29Speaker 00

  Like Danny DeVito, I love your work. He has a very distinct mustache. He has very distinct eyes.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Very distinct. The eyes really.

• 28:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Are the thing that are like.

• 28:39Speaker 00

  Even like the forehead wrinkles and the way his hair is parted, like.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Very specific nose shape. I don't, if you saw him, you'd be like, yeah, that is him.

• 28:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, like I definitely saw that guy.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Saw that guy. It's not just a guy with a mustache. It's a very specific guy.

• 28:53Speaker 00

  It is. And we'll post it.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  And then that trail, actually, police ended up investigating it, but they came up with nothing.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 29:01Speaker 00

  There's nothing there.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Again, it's outside, so it's so hard.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  Well, that's the thing. Exactly.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  It's so easy to lose evidence outside.

• 29:08Speaker 00

  The only thing that I guess that like they could have gotten was like tire tracks, but maybe there just weren't any.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 29:14Speaker 00

  And who's to say that he was in the cemetery? That's again, just a tip.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Sorry, I just.

• 29:20Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, I just slammed into my microphone. I'm sorry.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  We to walk with our hands.

• 29:24Speaker 00

  I do. So yeah, like, things were being investigated. Nothing's turning up. They are, um, like sex offenders in the area were interviewed. They were polygraphed. Actually, a few of them did not pass their polygraph tests.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 29:36Speaker 00

  But there wasn't really, there was like a couple of people that didn't and there was nothing to hold them on really. And no, I mean, they don't have a shred of evidence. So what are they gonna do?

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. What are you gonna do?

• 29:46Speaker 00

  You can't do much with just a polygraph.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  You can't be like, I think you lied.

• 29:49Speaker 00

  Yeah. And also it's weird that like multiple of them lied, like.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 00

  Strange.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  I think maybe it's just like nerves.

• 29:55Speaker 00

  Yes, that could happen. I feel like I could, I could never pass one of those. I think I would just be like, nah.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. And if you're coming in as a sex offender already, you're probably already.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  Pretty nervous.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Nervous.

• 30:05Speaker 00

  Which you should be. Don't sex offend.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Don't do it.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  So the next big tip would not come until May of 2003, three years after Molly Bish went missing.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 30:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. A hunter from the area had seen a blue bathing suit in the woods in a nearby town called Palmer, which I've actually literally never.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I've heard of it.

• 30:23Speaker 00

  Oh, all right. It's Massachusetts. Um, when police went to investigate, they did find a piece from what they determined to be Molly's bathing suit. Not only did her father remember buying that bathing suit with his daughter, it was like this very specific blue and white color, they said, like, he was like, I know that was it. But DNA testing confirmed that it was Molly's.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  Oh, that's horrific.

• 30:43Speaker 00

  Now, once the bathing suit was found, there was another massive search and actually it was the biggest search in Massachusetts state history.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  This was everywhere.

• 30:53Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  Every, I was in high school when this happened. It was everywhere.

• 30:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. I don't remember it because I think I was literally five years old. I was pretty young.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  You were really, I mean, in 2003, you were what, like eight years old?

• 31:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was like, in 2004, I was eight. Yeah. It doesn't matter.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  You were young.

• 31:13Speaker 00

  But I don't remember this at all because I was so little. And I think probably if it was on the news, somebody was like, let's not have that on.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Turn that off.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  All this five year olds in here.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:21Speaker 00

  But yeah, so the huge, huge, huge search, massive search, biggest in US, in US, in Massachusetts history. Um, and then the first week of June, there were multiple grim discoveries. Partial remains were found in Palmer in an area called Whiskey Hill. A lock of hair and a tongue ring were also found, all confirmed to be Molly's.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 31:42Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I just thought this was like a really cute story. Cause like, I think it's like, I think she's so badass for like convincing her parents to get a tongue ring.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  I know. I was gonna say, what a badass.

• 31:51Speaker 00

  Right? And John senior remembered taking Molly to get her tongue pierced the previous spring. And he was like, the only, we like reason that I did it is that she promised she quote, wouldn't get any tattoos or any other piercings until she was 45 at least. And I just thought that was like a cute like story.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Well, and she seems like she was such a, like a good kid and like pretty responsible.

• 32:12Speaker 00

  They're like.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Wasn't rebellious.

• 32:13Speaker 00

  What you wanna do.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  And if, if your kid is that good and they're like, can I just get my tongue pierced? Like it's not permanent.

• 32:19Speaker 00

  No.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  You know, like it's just like.

• 32:20Speaker 00

  Especially in 2000s, like I remember even in like when I was in high school, people are still getting their tongues pierced.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  But like, and I feel like back then it was like such a thing.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  It was a huge thing then.

• 32:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I thought that was just like a cute story, like father, daughter story.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  They just seemed like they were like.

• 32:37Speaker 00

  And honestly.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  The bond between them was something like really special and it's sad.

• 32:41Speaker 00

  Yeah. Her parents just seemed so cool. Like they seemed like really just like down to earth, sweet people. Her mom, and like I said in the beginning, her mom was saying how, uh, Molly had like an I love Lucy sense of humor. And her mom in the interviews, she has like this smile and obviously it's like, she's smiling through a lot of pain. But you can tell that she's like kinda goofy and silly too.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, like she just gives that vibe off.

• 33:03Speaker 00

  They just seem like really fucking awesome people.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's, it really sucks when this shit happens. Cause it's always to these kind of people.

• 33:09Speaker 00

  Exactly. You know, I hate it so much. Now only 26 of the 206 bones that make up the human body. Were found.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 33:19Speaker 00

  26.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 33:21Speaker 00

  Maggie and John actually had to wait to collect their daughter's remains and wait to hold a funeral service so that everything could be analyzed. And that, and then they were advised against cremating Molly's remains in case like any new testing or anything like that came about.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can understand that.

• 33:37Speaker 00

  So Molly's remains were buried along with her prom dress and a ton of letters from written by friends and family.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 33:45Speaker 00

  And.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Like with the prom dress, it's like, ooh, cause you forget.

• 33:49Speaker 00

  She literally just went to prom.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  Fucking 16.

• 33:53Speaker 00

  Like what? And this is really just gonna drive the point home, like how horrific this case was and how much this poor family suffered. Molly was buried on what would have been her 20th birthday.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 34:04Speaker 00

  August 2nd, 2003. Like it's just horrific. So let's get into like, who the heck did this now?

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Who the fuck did this?

• 34:12Speaker 00

  Right? I was, so there's, we're gonna get into suspects and I'm like reluctant to even say suspects because so far in the past 20 years that this case has been ongoing and open and everything, no arrests have ever been made.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  Which is crazy.

• 34:27Speaker 00

  Nuts. It's been, I mean, 21 years now.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  I know. And it feels like 2003, you're like, oh yeah, that was a few years ago.

• 34:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. In 2000, when she disappeared.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:35Speaker 00

  But there have been a lot of different persons of interest along the way. Now, the first person was named in February of 2008. This is a man named Rodney, uh, Stagner, I believe is how you say it. He was arrested in Florida for the murder of his girlfriend, Crystal Morrison. He stabbed her 39 times and nearly decapitated her.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  So that just goes to show you what kind of guy we're dealing with. Uh, Crystal's sister Bonnie actually came forward to give information that she thought might be helpful in the Molly Bish investigation.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  Now she said that she and her sister hadn't spoken for like almost 20 years. And then out of the blue, Bonnie got a call from Crystal. And Crystal told Bonnie that she was sure that she was going to be murdered by her boyfriend Rodney that night. And the entire, it's, first of all, the conversation starts off like that. And then the rest of the conversation is just like very bizarre. It was almost like she was speaking, Crystal was speaking to Bonnie in some kind of like code.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Wow. And she, you don't talk to her for 20 years and then the first time she calls, she's like, I'm fairly certain I'm gonna be murdered tonight.

• 35:40Speaker 00

  I mean.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  What the fuck?

• 35:41Speaker 00

  Right? So she also told, Crystal also told her sister that she needed the phone numbers for the FBI and the Massachusetts state police. Now remember, they're, they're living in Florida. And she was like, I don't need Florida police. I need Massachusetts state police. And she wanted both parties to come and talk to her and Rodney about murders, murders.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  Oh, that's weird.

• 36:05Speaker 00

  Yep. Now it's gonna get weirder because Crystal actually commented a couple of times and seemed to be making a point about asking Bonnie about her bird. Like I guess Bonnie had this bird that was like squawking in the background and Crystal like kept commenting on it. There was multiple phone calls. And she's like, one day, um, Bonnie told her the bird's name because she asked and she was like, oh, okay. And then the next night she asked the bird's name again. And she's like, how did she already, like the article I read, she was like, how did she already forget? We just talked about this.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:33Speaker 00

  And Bonnie reminded Crystal that that bird's name is Molly.

• 36:38Speaker 00

  And then the phone went silent and Bonnie realized that there was a reason why Crystal was making a point to mention the bird.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  What?

• 36:46Speaker 00

  And I, like, I guess she was like, it's Molly. And then there was silence. And then Bonnie was like, oh my God. And Crystal was like, yep, like.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Did Rodney look like the sketch?

• 36:59Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. We'll get into that.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Oh my God, I'm stressed.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  Now Rodney, believe it or not, so remember they're in Florida, but believe it or not, he had actually lived in Southbridge, Massachusetts, Massachusetts, which is only about 15 miles away from Warren, which would be like a 25 minute drive.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:16Speaker 00

  I Googled it.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Nothing.

• 37:18Speaker 00

  He was in a-

• 37:18Speaker 01

  It's crazy that I don't, I don't remember hearing about this.

• 37:20Speaker 00

  Really?

• 37:21Speaker 01

  This is nuts.

• 37:21Speaker 00

  Really?

• 37:22Speaker 01

  This is like actually new to me.

• 37:23Speaker 00

  So this is in 2008.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 37:25Speaker 00

  I think there was just like probably so much about this case.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  There was so many.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  So yeah, he was an experienced hunter and fisherman with a known background of violence against women, obviously. And that was exactly who the authorities were looking at at that time. They said it's probably somebody just like that between the ages of 18 and 50.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:43Speaker 00

  We can't narrow like the ages down more than that, but they're a hunter, they're a fisherman, they know the area.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 37:48Speaker 00

  They're definitely violent. Now Rodney was quote, "familiar with Commons Pond and Whiskey Hill." And if that's not enough for you, this guy lived quote, "three tenths of a mile" away from the YMCA in Southbridge, where Molly got her lifeguard certification.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  Shut up.

• 38:09Speaker 00

  Now-

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Shut the front door.

• 38:11Speaker 00

  Shut the front door.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Shut it.

• 38:12Speaker 00

  Molly's dad worked part-time at a hospital in Southbridge, so he would bring Molly to her classes and pick her up when they were done. But there were some days where she got out early or like he had to stay late, so she would hang out around the area. And there was a local coffee shop that she would usually hang out at until like her dad would come get her. Now, one of the private investigators who worked for the Bish family, his name is Tom Shamzak, I believe is how you say it. He said, quote, "It's very significant because it's a possible explanation of where Rodney Stigner may have first encountered Molly Bish. This is not a heavily populated area. It's quite possible that the two of them met there. She may have been chatted up. He may have extradited information from her, namely that she was going to be employed at Commons Pond."

• 38:54Speaker 01

  This-

• 38:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  Yup. Like this, there's so many pieces that fit here.

• 39:00Speaker 00

  Oh, absolutely. So, and Tom felt that way too, the private investigator. So he actually went to visit Rodney in prison, because remember he's in prison for literally

• 39:09Speaker 01

  murdering Crystal.

• 39:10Speaker 00

  murdering his girlfriend. He went to go speak with him and he showed Rodney a picture of Molly and he said that Rodney wouldn't even look at the picture, like glanced at it and pushed it back across the table, like didn't want to look at it.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  I feel like Rodney did it.

• 39:24Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  I, I'm like shocked right now.

• 39:29Speaker 00

  So you're going to be even more shocked. Now, going back to Crystal's sister Bonnie, she was the one who had to go into the home where her sister was murdered to gather all of her sister's belongings.

• 39:38Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 39:38Speaker 00

  And it took a little while, I think Bonnie was experiencing like some health issues, but so it took a little while. But when she got there, she found Rodney's wallet with a copy of his firearms license. And she said, quote, "When I first saw the FID, I said to myself, 'Oh my God, this guy could have sat there and posed for that sketch.'"

• 39:57Speaker 01

  What?

• 40:03Speaker 00

  So, and I'll post the picture of his firearms license, which is from Massachusetts. It is essentially identical. Like when she says that he could have sat and posed for it, that it's not an exaggeration at all.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  I need, I'm like, okay, stop it.

• 40:19Speaker 00

  Like, right?

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Stop it.

• 40:21Speaker 00

  It's insane. Now Bonnie also found, and this is so creepy that we like recently covered a case where something similar happened. Bonnie also found a bag of hair accessories, like clips and barrettes, that she was like, these definitely did not belong to Molly. She, like, she was like, these belong to a child, like, and there was like a whole thing of them, a bag of them.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  What?

• 40:43Speaker 00

  In the home, yes. And then here, here's one more thing on Rodney.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  I hate this.

• 40:48Speaker 00

  His, uh, his brother Randy owned a white Chrysler. And both of them moved to Florida together pretty shortly after Molly disappeared.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  Okay. Hello.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 41:01Speaker 00

  So because we talked about Rodney, we also have to talk about his brother Randy, the white, the white Chrysler owning brother. He was actually connected to a missing persons case himself.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Oh, was he?

• 41:12Speaker 00

  Do you know about the Holly Purin, Purin case?

• 41:16Speaker 01

  That sounds very familiar.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  I literally looked up how to say it and I wrote it phonetically, Purin.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  Purin.

• 41:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  That sounds very familiar.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  So Holly was a 10-year-old little girl and she went missing from Sturbridge, Massachusetts in 1993. She had been, I believe, vacationing with her grandmother. And she and her little brother Zach took like a short walk to Justin's neighbor's house. They were checking out like some new puppies that the neighbor had. But somewhere along the way, they got separated and Zach came back without her. And when the adults and everyone went back to look for her, all that was left of her was a shoe by the side of the road.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 41:50Speaker 00

  And this little girl must have been like absolutely like super, super smart because she had just gone to a camp and they talked about like what you should do if you're like being abducted or something like that.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:01Speaker 00

  And they said like, leave something behind. So her family thinks that she like probably kicked off that shoe as to leave behind a sign at 10 years old.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Rip my heart out of my chest.

• 42:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. Now, again, this is really horrible. Three weeks later, Holly's body was found in the woods of Brimfield, Massachusetts, right off of Five Bridge Road.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 42:22Speaker 00

  Now-

• 42:23Speaker 01

  I've been to Brimfield for the antique fair.

• 42:25Speaker 00

  You know who else?

• 42:26Speaker 01

  They have like a huge antique fair.

• 42:27Speaker 00

  You know who else had been to Brimfield? Also, that's a great antique fair.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  It is, but that just like bumps me out.

• 42:31Speaker 00

  Randy had been in that area.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm shocked.

• 42:34Speaker 00

  And actually, he was, um, living in those same woods in a tent where her body was discovered.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  Stop, stop it.

• 42:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, coincidence, I think not.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  No, this is too much.

• 42:43Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. Now, people who hunted with both brothers later said to the authorities that they were pretty close to Five Bridge Road when they were hunting, like, and they had like seen it before, the brothers had like pointed it out to them and been like, oh, like there's that over there. Now Holly's little brother had flashbacks later on of like images of this man that he thought he saw. In 2005, these flashbacks started happening and he was able to talk to a sketch artist. And the man that he described looks a lot like Randy.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 43:12Speaker 00

  And he had never seen Randy before, like he'd never seen a picture of him or anything. And then in 2011, DNA from Holly's crime scene was actually able to connect to a man named David Puleit, I think is how you say it. And he, that DNA connected him to the scene. So like he was at the, at the crime scene, but he wasn't named a suspect and he passed away in 2003.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 43:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. Now, um, I didn't look too deep into it because this is mostly about Molly and maybe we'll cover Holly's disappearance at another point in time, but I, I'm pretty certain her case is still open. And there was actually, somebody's body was exhumed that was, that they thought was like in connection with the case.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 43:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Oh, that's horrific.

• 43:55Speaker 00

  So it's-

• 43:55Speaker 01

  I can't even-

• 43:56Speaker 00

  It's wild.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  It's so bad.

• 43:58Speaker 00

  The connections between Molly and Holly's case are like very eerie and that's to say the least. And it's not only the suspects involved, because they were both 10 years old in 1993, the year that Holly went missing. And Molly actually wrote Holly's family a letter because she was so touched by the case.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Stop.

• 44:18Speaker 00

  And she told them that she hoped that they would find Holly soon.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 44:22Speaker 00

  So literally like the-

• 44:24Speaker 01

  This is so strange.

• 44:26Speaker 00

  It's, I don't even know what to say about that.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:28Speaker 00

  It's so-

• 44:28Speaker 01

  I don't even-

• 44:29Speaker 00

  nuts.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 44:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I do feel like it's worth mentioning that these two girls had similar features, like blonde hair.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  They did.

• 44:36Speaker 00

  Blue eyes. Their abductions were sort of similar, both having been in like pretty secluded areas where there was not like a quote unquote adult around.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Yup.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  Weird.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  That is very weird.

• 44:47Speaker 00

  Yes. But Rodney and Randy were not the only people of interest. There was another man named as a suspect by another private investigator on Molly's case, and this was Dan Molly. This man named as a suspect, uh, by Dan Molly was Gerald Battisoni. Gerald is a disgusting, like monster, a pedophile, just the lowest of the low.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  Ew.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's horrible. And he had some shocking connections, not only to Molly's case, but Holly's as well, both cases. Now, he was named a suspect by the PI in 2011, when he was already in prison for raping a teenage girl in the 90s.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Disgusting.

• 45:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. And the girl who he raped was the daughter of a woman that he had been dating.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 45:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. This woman that he raped, this young girl, said that he, she, excuse me, he had assaulted her, sexually assaulted her over 100 times.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 45:43Speaker 00

  Yes. And it seems that he was like quite literally obsessed with her. He told her, there was like multiple police reports regarding this case. He told her that he loved her in front of the police who were called when he broke a restraining order just to go see her.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  What?

• 45:57Speaker 00

  So it's not unlikely to think that Gerald may have been stalking this young girl. And here's what's weird about that. When Molly Bish went missing in 2000, the rape victim was actually living on Commons Pond, uh, Commons Pond Road.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Stop. So he could have just been there.

• 46:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Doing what he was doing.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  Yup.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  And happened to find-

• 46:17Speaker 00

  And happened to find Molly and like let, I mean, I don't even want to-

• 46:20Speaker 01

  And also, I just looked up a photo of him.

• 46:23Speaker 00

  He looks like the-

• 46:24Speaker 01

  Those eyes.

• 46:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Those eyes.

• 46:26Speaker 00

  Right.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Those eyes. That's the same fucking eyes from that sketch.

• 46:31Speaker 00

  Thing is, I mean Rodney looks like him too, like it's, it's-

• 46:34Speaker 01

  But I'm gonna be honest, Gerald looks more like him, those eyes.

• 46:37Speaker 00

  I agree with you.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Those are very specific in that sketch.

• 46:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  And he looks like that guy.

• 46:42Speaker 00

  He absolutely does.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Slap a mustache on him and he's him.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  Well, he has a mustache.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Well, in the photo, well, in the photo I saw he didn't, but-

• 46:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's a reason for that.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Get the fu- I can't, this case is stressing me out.

• 46:53Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I said he also had connections to Holly's case. The woman that he'd been dating, the victim's mother, was a real estate agent who had a home listed right near Holly's grandmother's house. And like the woman, uh, the mother of the victim, her name and picture and everything was on that sign. So it, I don't know if it was like some kind of like revenge, like doing it in an area where the mother was because he was upset with her. I don't know. But weird that-

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:20Speaker 00

  Those two cases are connected to that man as well.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Very strange.

• 47:24Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  Very strange.

• 47:26Speaker 00

  And also, the day that Molly went missing, Gerald was working on his wife at the time, her car, which was a white sedan.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:34Speaker 00

  And-

• 47:34Speaker 01

  I mean, come on.

• 47:35Speaker 00

  He told her that he took it for a spin out in Warren, where Molly went missing. Yeah. And his wife said that was weird because, uh, he didn't have a license at the time and that once the news of Molly's disappearance broke, he shaved his mustache and stopped going places, like stayed at home most of the time.

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• 50:58Speaker 00

  vary by state. I truly, when I looked at that photo of Gerald, I was like, that's the guy. Oh, just wait. Those eyes are so- Yeah, those beady little fucking eyes. Specific. They are so specific in both of those sketches. That is him. Yeah, it's compelling. Now- But then it's like Rodney was very compelling, too. I know. A lot of it's very compelling. Those eyes, man. I can't get past them. The eyes don't lie. They don't. The windows to the soul. Yes, there you go. Well, Gerald also loved, he liked true crime. He loved to watch Court TV and he would talk about true crime a lot. He'd talk about the cases. He would watch some cases over and over again. Hate that. He also would apparently, like, cut out, like, brutal newspaper clippings and just

• 51:43Speaker 00

  leave them around the house. Fun. And be like, "This is how I'm gonna kill you," like, to his wife. So quirky. Yeah, super quirky. Super quirky. But for some reason, when his wife brought up the Molly Bish case to him, he didn't want to talk about it at all. And he told her, quote, "Sometimes, there's just no evidence." Yeah. I literally, come on. Mm-hmm. And by the way, Gerald had been known, and it is cited in police reports, he had been known to impersonate a police officer. So, like we said, like, the first aid kit was open, sure, maybe that meant something. Maybe it didn't. Or, I mean, maybe she thought she was helping a police officer. 100%. So, maybe that's how he got Molly to trust him, and he lured her away when she tried to help him. Gerald looks good for this man.

• 52:28Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. Do we know if he was a smoker? I don't know. I was gonna say, it's probably not like a big- Oh, wait, no, no, no, that's a lie. I do know, actually. Sorry, sorry, sorry. His wife, because I didn't find this anywhere. I saw it in one article, so I'm not sure if this is the absolute truth. But I guess Maggie, like, made it a point to, when she was doing the composite sketch, to like, say how the guy was holding the cigarette, or like, he's holding it a certain way in the picture. Yeah. I didn't think it was, like, any specific way. Like, I feel like that's how most people hold it. But his wife said that there was, like, a certain way that he would hold a cigarette, and she said it used to, like, piss her off. Really? And she noticed that the man in the sketch is, like, holding it similarly, or Maggie had said that he was. Cause you know what? So he was a smoker.

• 53:13Speaker 00

  He's holding it between his two fingers, like, very, like, but his fingers are very, like, rigid. Yeah, like, pointed out. Like, almost like somebody would be, like, parading someone, like, smoking, like, "Moo," you know, like, "I'm smoking a cigarette." Yeah. It just looks like you would be making fun of someone smoking a cigarette. Yeah. "I'm so cool," cause most people, like, hold the cigarette. It's a little sideways sometimes. Or they'll maybe hold it, like, between their fingers, just like, very casually, but this, he looks very rigid with his two fingers. Like, to a point. Yeah. It is a very specific way to hold your cigarette. So, I mean, there you have it. I'm, Gerald. So there's that. And then it is also said that he used to buy drugs in Whiskey Hill, where Molly's remains were found. So he knew that area well, too. Ugh.

• 53:55Speaker 00

  And then the smoking gun, Elena. This is really gonna send you all the way- What is it? Home. He attempted suicide when news broke that he was probably connected to Molly and Holly's case. He tried to slit his own throat, but it didn't work. He was taken to a hospital and treated. He did it. However- I feel like he did it. He died in prison in 2014 without confessing to having a part in either case. Damn it. But he is a pretty strong suspect. He, to me- Yeah. Feels like rock solid. He feels pretty solid. And it's killing me that he's, oh, that kills me. That kills me. I know. I remember hearing, like, bits and pieces of him. Yeah.

• 54:40Speaker 00

  But I don't remember, like, following this, like, as closely as I thought I would've, but I didn't. And now I'm like, what? The thing is, like, obviously, I think in, like, Rodney and Randy's cases, like, there's very, like, creepy stuff. And like, honestly, there's more creepy stuff about Randy in regards to Holly's case than there is Rodney in regards to Molly's case. Yeah, for sure. But the thing about Gerald is that there's, like, a lot of weird shit. Like, first of all, like, why would you try to commit suicide if you had nothing to do with it? Exactly. Why would you shave your mustache when you, like, obviously, that composite sketch went out pretty quickly? You put a mustache on that dude, it is an exact- And he had a mustache. He literally shaved it. Exact. And, like, just all the connections to the-

• 55:23Speaker 00

  That he was working on the white Chrysler that wasn't even his that day, and then he took it for a spin in fucking Warren? Mm-hmm. And that he's, like, connected to it because he already is in prison for raping a girl. He smokes, and he smokes weird. And that Molly's mom was saying, like, it was a very specific way he held a cigarette. Right. Which, again, I'm not sure if she said that, but I did see it in one source. It's like, there's so many things on top of so many things. And the fact that the woman, or the young girl that he raped was living on the same road as the pond. Exactly. And that he was, like, stalking, like, obsessed with that girl. It seemed like he was, yeah. It seems like if you're around the area- Yeah. You happen to come around Molly. And you're probably, like, angry and annoyed. And he's probably angry. He's a predator and a disgusting- Exactly. He's a monster.

• 56:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. Go and read more about him, cause there's more. I gotta do. I gotta do. He is just, he, like, used to make his wife wear, like, children's underwear. Oh, my God. Get the, I can't. When I said he's a disgusting monster, I didn't want to, like, say that. I hope he is, like- But, oh. Where whatever is happening, wherever he is, I hope it is like nothing we can imagine. No. Is it Stansy on TikTok, who does, like, she, like, pretends to be the devil in hell? I hope that she is, like, his hell. His version of hell. I love Stansy. She's the best. She really is. I think, isn't it Stansy Patenza? I think so. I think that's what it is on TikTok. She's hilarious. Go follow her if you haven't.

• 56:48Speaker 00

  Side note. She is great. But, so, yeah, back to this. Now, in 2013, construction started close by to where Molly's remains were found. And the construction was for a racetrack in the area that was gonna be used for, like, quote, "driver education, motor vehicle testing, demonstration, and competition." So, just a bunch of shit. And the Bish family was actually hopeful that some evidence might be discovered during the construction. Yeah, absolutely. And Maggie- Cause they're gonna be digging around everywhere. Right, exactly. And it's a huge area. And it's right where her remains were found. It's, like, right there. And Maggie said, quote, and I, like, I'm so happy that it was, like, dealt with properly. She said, "They were very, very conscientious and took it very seriously about what they could come across." Good.

• 57:32Speaker 00

  They also said that they'd be very happy and very willing to put up a memorial for Molly.

• 57:38Speaker 00

  And there, okay, so there is a memorial for Molly. It's like this big yellow sign. I, I don't know if it's like by her house, or if it's the memorial that these people put up. I tried to find, to figure out where exactly it is, but I can only see a picture of it, like not where it is.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 57:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, we'll have to find out.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:57Speaker 00

  Um, but I was happy that they like

• 57:59Speaker 01

  They're, yeah, that they took it so seriously.

• 58:02Speaker 00

  Exactly. Now, it's unclear if ever, if any evidence was found there. Like I didn't find any follow up of any evidence being found when they built the track, but I felt like it was worth mentioning.

• 58:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. And if they did find things, maybe they aren't saying it just

• 58:15Speaker 00

  Well, and I'm going to get into like a little bit of that now. Because a year later in 2014, some new evidence was found. A partially buried bag was found across the street from where Molly's remains were discovered. And the bag contained plaid boxer shorts that were similar to the ones that Molly had been wearing over her bathing suit.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 58:34Speaker 00

  That day she was wearing like, just like little shorts and um, a pink tank top.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 58:39Speaker 00

  So this, this bag that was found had shorts that were similar to the ones that she was wearing. Now that, again, I haven't found any updated information regarding that discovery, like if it led anywhere else. But it seems like there's been a few discoveries in recent years that the investigators are holding close to the chest, like you would say.

• 58:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. It makes sense.

• 59:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, I couldn't find

• 59:01Speaker 01

  You don't want to let everything out because

• 59:03Speaker 00

  No, and it does seem like they're kind of getting somewhere.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  It did, yeah. From what I could see, it looks like they, there seems like there's something, maybe something

• 59:12Speaker 00

  But I mean, it's been 20 years, so they probably have to go over everything like over and over again.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  Oh, for sure.

• 59:16Speaker 00

  Now, some more, like pretty big news broke during a 2014 campaign that Molly's family put together. It's called the Just One Piece Campaign, uh, excuse me, Just One Piece Campaign. Now, the name comes from the hope that people will realize that like just one more piece of evidence could solve this entire case or help the investigation. And it serves as a reminder that no information in this case is too small.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:41Speaker 00

  Like, if you know even just an inkling of something, call and say it.

• 59:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 59:46Speaker 00

  If you really know it to be true. But so they put together this campaign and people can come forward to make confidential statements during this that may help the investigation.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 59:57Speaker 00

  So in 2014, they had this and four people came forward to identify a new person of interest. Apparently there was a man staying at a campground nearby and he was gone like one whole entire day. And it was the day that Molly went missing. And he came back the next day and his face was like all messed up. There was like scratches and his face was bloody. And he was talking, excuse me, he was yelling about, quote, "something bad that happened in the woods the night before."

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:00:27Speaker 00

  Yes. And then apparently, again, he's not named, but in recent years, he has allegedly been bragging to people that he knows he's a person of interest. And they still haven't like come around to interview him.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:00:39Speaker 00

  Yeah. So strange. Now, his name, like I said, still hasn't been released, but that does make me slightly like hopeful that they might be on to something here.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, if they're not releasing his name, that's interesting.

• 1:00:50Speaker 00

  That's pretty big, I think.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  That's interesting.

• 1:00:52Speaker 00

  Now, another piece of information that came out during the same campaign, the Just One More Peace Campaign, was about a white car that may be buried at Old Sawmill Campground in Westbrookfield. I'm not sure if it's the same camp, uh, campground that the unidentified man was staying at.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:01:08Speaker 00

  Couldn't determine that.

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:10Speaker 00

  Um, the property isn't a campground anymore and it's owned by a different person than it was at the time of Molly's, uh, death. Now, the new owner gave permission for the property to be searched. And ground penetrating radar was used to search the ground for a car that is supposedly buried beneath the campground.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:01:30Speaker 00

  And quote, "compelling anomalies were found during the search."

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  Stop.

• 1:01:35Speaker 00

  Yes. Now, I haven't seen any update about this since 2018, like the search for the car. I don't know if they found the car. I don't know anything because like mama, I was looking like Trixie Mattel mama. I was looking for this and looking and looking. I spent like an hour just trying to find out any update on the car situation.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  I am dying. I need to know.

• 1:01:58Speaker 00

  I haven't found one. But again, it gives me hope that like maybe they did find something and they are just not saying it right now.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Or they're really like treading, like they're trying to make sure they do everything right because they do know that like things are connecting. I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope.

• 1:02:14Speaker 00

  So they went out there one day and they said that like they found some stuff and then they came back a couple of days later and like looked around some more. Now, an unnamed man who looks a lot like the composite sketch actually still lives in the same area. Which I don't, he could be the man that people are coming forward about. He's a known fisher and hunter and he was friends with the original owner of that campground. And Heather Bish, Molly's sister, said that at the time of Molly's murder, there was construction equipment at the campground that could have been used to aid in burying that car.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  Oh, because I was gonna, that was one of the things I was like, I was like, damn, that's a lot of work to bury a car.

• 1:02:51Speaker 00

  But then if you're friends with the guy that works there and there's already

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  Construction equipment? You can just dig a giant hole, stick the car in there.

• 1:02:58Speaker 00

  Boom. Like put it in neutral, you're good to go.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  Oh my god, I gotta know.

• 1:03:02Speaker 00

  Now Heather Bish seems to be the one who is really taking things over for the family right now. John Senior had a stroke, like they're definitely, they're not like old at all, but they're older now. And I mean, they've been through a lot in their life, so.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:03:15Speaker 00

  I think Heather is like really like, almost like the spokesperson and like really like keeping this alive. But everybody in the family has done, like I'm going to get into it in a second. But she, Heather said that she will fight until her dying day to find out who this person was and what happened to her sister.

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  Oh my god, I want to like help her.

• 1:03:33Speaker 00

  I do too.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  This is making me crazy.

• 1:03:35Speaker 00

  I'll let you on to something at the end of this. So Molly's memory is kept alive in some really beautiful ways. The entire family, like I just said, I'm going to get into it now. They have done the most incredible work. They've provided thousands of families from Massachusetts, Connecticut and New York with like thousands and thousands of identification kits for their children. You know how like when a kid is little, you like fingerprint them, you, I don't even, I don't even know what goes into it. But the reason that they did this is because they didn't really have, they had like prom pictures and stuff of Molly.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it just wasn't a thing back then.

• 1:04:07Speaker 00

  But it wasn't exactly what she looked like. So they had trouble finding a recent picture of her.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:12Speaker 00

  So they helped other families so that like, God forbid, they were ever in the circumstance, they would have the kit right there.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  To be like, here's all of the things you will need to find them.

• 1:04:21Speaker 00

  Yes, which is like so, so like scary when you think about it, but it's something that needs to be done, unfortunately.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  Which is horrific that it needs to be done.

• 1:04:29Speaker 00

  Right? They also set up the Molly Bish Foundation and they have traveled for years to different events all about protecting children against crimes like these. They helped bring the Amber Alert to Massachusetts.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 1:04:41Speaker 00

  They worked on like countless different legislations that are like all about protecting children, all about like crimes regarding children, abductions. And they also set up another foundation, uh, the Molly Bish Center for the Protection of El, of the Children and the Elderly.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  My god.

• 1:04:58Speaker 00

  So they have just like essentially dedicated their lives to getting just, not only getting justice for Molly, but like preventing this from ever happening to another family.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  Well, to take that kind of tragedy and that kind of grief and that just kind of her, like nightmare situation and turn it into something like so positive and so like to reach out to other families and like, that, that's just like

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  Because literally like your world just implodes on you, like

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Oh, it's unimaginable.

• 1:05:27Speaker 00

  No one would blame anybody in that family for just like going to bed and like never like being the same ever again.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, like never wanting to talk to another person ever again. I would not blame one soul of them.

• 1:05:39Speaker 00

  But then they turn around.

• 1:05:40Speaker 01

  This is like, wow.

• 1:05:42Speaker 00

  They dedicated their entire lives to this.

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Unreal.

• 1:05:45Speaker 00

  And Heather has gone on like different like, um, podcasts. She's like talked to different news outlets and everything. Like Heather really wants to get this case solved for her sister and for her family.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  I want this for her so badly.

• 1:05:58Speaker 00

  I want it for her so badly.

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:06:00Speaker 00

  So this past year on June 27th, for the 20th anniversary of Molly's disappearance, Heather asked that neighbors and people along the drive to Coman's Pond leave their porch light on or a candle in the window. And also that people leave a kindness rock at the sign near the Bish house, which when I read that, I was like, is that the sign? Like the yellow one?

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:06:19Speaker 00

  Um, but leave a kindness rock there. She asked them to do it so that Maggie can use them in her garden.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  I want to bring a kindness rock.

• 1:06:28Speaker 00

  Dude, I literally, in my mind, I was like, I want to drive there right now.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  I want to go and leave a kindness rock.

• 1:06:33Speaker 00

  I know. She drove her parents to the pond that day to remember Molly, as they always do on June 27th.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:06:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. Now, District Attorney Joseph D. Early Jr. recently said, quote, "The Molly Bish case is turning 20 years old, now 21. But the tips still come in every week and every tip is followed up on. We have had many items tested for DNA over the years and we continue to do so. This case is very active and a tremendous amount of work is being done. I am hopeful it will be solved."

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  And investigators ask that people come forward and share their DNA, especially now that familial DNA is becoming really helpful in cold cases.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:12Speaker 00

  Like, they're really asking for people to do that. Now, this is so important. If you're listening to anything, listen to this. Anyone with information about the Molly Bish case can call the state police tip line at 508-453-7575. Again, 508-453-7575.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 1:07:35Speaker 00

  And Heather Bish said, just to end this, quote, "If the person who did this could have a change of heart and tell us what happened, it would give us a certain amount of peace and closure, just as far as justice is concerned."

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:07:47Speaker 00

  So that is the really, really, really tragic case of Molly Bish.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  You did such a good job with that and also this case. Wow.

• 1:07:59Speaker 00

  I really hope that we can, like, deliver some kind of update, like.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  I hope so.

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  As soon as possible.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  I swear, I wish, I like, want to help.

• 1:08:06Speaker 00

  I know. I do too.

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  I just want to help. It's one of those cases, you always feel so helpless in these, like, this particular case just.

• 1:08:13Speaker 00

  It's, I think.

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  Resonates.

• 1:08:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, the fact that it's a Massachusetts case, the fact that it's like, just the, the fact that it happened so quickly, it was clearly like somewhat planned.

• 1:08:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it just, yeah, it's definitely, I know it definitely, part of it is like Massachusetts family, just feel like, you're just like, I just want to help you.

• 1:08:31Speaker 00

  When, like, watching interviews with this family, like, I watched so many interviews and just like, different, like, reading different things that they said. They're just like your typical family, like, they're like your friend, like, your best friend's family, or like, they're just very relatable people.

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  I just want to give them what they deserve.

• 1:08:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  I want to give them, I want to give them some kind of closure and some kind of peace. I really do.

• 1:08:52Speaker 00

  Well, if you go to the Molly Bish Foundation website, they have different ways, like, where you can help, like, if you want to get involved in this, that's the perfect place for you to go. They have different resources where you can.

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  Because sometimes you just feel like so helpless listening to a story like this. Like, I have on like, on different things and I'm like, I ju, I want to do something, but I feel like I can't. So.

• 1:09:12Speaker 00

  Go there, go there and figure out how to help.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  At least try.

• 1:09:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's seriously, if you know something, call that number that I said.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:09:18Speaker 00

  Only if you know something like for real.

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  Yes, please.

• 1:09:21Speaker 00

  But like they said, like, no matter how little you think it is, it could be make or break. You never know.

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it could connect to something else that you don't even know exists. So if you know anything, if you heard anything, if you saw anything, anything.

• 1:09:34Speaker 00

  Jog your memory.

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, just think about it. Think about it, assholes.

• 1:09:38Speaker 00

  Come on assholes. We're, we're good at this stuff.

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  We are.

• 1:09:42Speaker 00

  But yeah, wow, that is that.

• 1:09:44Speaker 01

  Thank you for that. And thank you Patronuses for choosing that case, because that was one we always intended to cover, but you guys just sped it up. So thank you for finally getting us to do it.

• 1:09:54Speaker 00

  Moving that to the top of our list.

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:06Speaker 00

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• 1:13:14Speaker 00

  We just got off the phone with a very special guest and I'm like hyped that we got to do this.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was amazing.

• 1:13:19Speaker 00

  It was. So in episode 214, we covered the case of Molly Bish. Molly Bish was a 16-year-old lifeguard who, on the morning of June 27th, 2000, was essentially abducted from her lifeguard post. And really just honestly, go back and listen to the episode if you need like a refresher or anything like that.

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  Plain daylight.

• 1:13:39Speaker 00

  And yeah, because in plain daylight, she was abducted from her, it was literally 10 o'clock in the morning.

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, terrifying.

• 1:13:45Speaker 00

  It's so scary. But we, before actually I, we did the episode, I actually reached out to Molly's sister Heather, who's like very active in trying to solve Molly's case, because this is an unsolved case.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just crazy. It's like 20 plus years later.

• 1:13:59Speaker 00

  It's so crazy. And it's, it's so sad. It's like a very tragic case.

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  And we're from Massachusetts, so it's like.

• 1:14:05Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:14:06Speaker 01

  I feel like everybody from Massachusetts feels like they have some kind of like personal stake in this case. Like, you just, you want to see this. And like you'll hear in the interview, we love the Bish family and I just feel like they are like our family and we want us, we want this case to be solved for them.

• 1:14:23Speaker 00

  They're like our Massachusetts brethren. So before, I mean, I read a ton about Heather before I started, or while I was researching the case, because she's so involved in trying to figure everything out. So we actually reached out to Heather and said, "Hey, you know, we're going to cover Molly's case. If you want to come on the show for like an afterwards kind of interview to tell us about the work that she's been doing to really get this case solved, and then tell us what we can do and the numbers that we can call and reach out to, to help her get this case solved."

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  Exactly, because this is unsolved, which is nuts.

• 1:14:53Speaker 00

  So I'm so stoked that Heather was willing to do that and she joined us for an episode and you guys are going to love this episode.

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  She's amazing. You're all going to fall in love.

• 1:15:04Speaker 00

  Heather Bish is an icon, everybody.

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  And what we talk about a lot in this, I just want to put it out first so that everybody can like, start Googling it while it's beginning, because it's important, is she's really starting to try, or starting, she's really in the, deep in the process of trying to push forward the bill, which is S1595 in Massachusetts, and she will, I'll let her explain in the episode what it's all about. It's basically to help push forward DNA that was found in Molly's case and also can help in other cases for rape kits. It has tons of implications. So go look that up real quick before the episode starts, because I think you're going to want to know what's in there.

• 1:15:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, definitely. And then after the episode is over, whip out your cell phone and just start calling everyone we said to call.

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll take a look at the show notes. I'll make sure I put all the information in there for you guys to, uh.

• 1:15:55Speaker 00

  So we can get this case solved.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  It's time.

• 1:15:58Speaker 00

  It is.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  It's time for Molly and it's time for the Bishes.

• 1:16:00Speaker 00

  Time for this all. So I think without further ado, here it is.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Enjoy, guys.

• 1:16:07Speaker 00

  Well, thank you so much, Heather, for coming on the show. We're honestly really honored to have you as a guest and we appreciate you even taking the time to talk to us.

• 1:16:16Speaker 02

  Oh, that's so kind. You guys are really, I, I'm appreciative with what you're doing and sharing these stories and sharing Molly's story, especially, you know, that, that's so important, especially with these older cases. I, I mean, this is, this podcast phenomenon has just been so interesting to me and I'm just like cheering all of you, you guys on the sidelines. So I love it. I, you know, for every case that's getting pieces of information coming forward or even arrests happening, I'm just in awe of the work of all the, excuse me, creators that are out there, um, you know, really sharing these stories. So I am honored.

• 1:16:56Speaker 00

  Oh, thank you so much. That was so sweet.

• 1:16:59Speaker 01

  We were both just sitting there like, oh my God. Thank you.

• 1:17:02Speaker 00

  Already off to a wholesome start.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  I know, right? Well, like you, I mean, like you were saying that this case, Molly's case specifically, it captivated, I mean, the nation.

• 1:17:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  It captivated everyone. And we got requests to cover Molly's case from all over the world. Like, before we covered it, people were like, please cover this case. And we were always waiting to do it because we wanted to do it really right, because we're from Massachusetts, too. So we were like,

• 1:17:29Speaker 00

  It felt like a connection to this.

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, we feel like this is like one of our family members. Because you know, here in Massachusetts, we're all just like feeling like we're one. So we're like, we gotta do this right. And I think when that happens, it can be, you know, it can be great, because like, information is getting out there. People are behind this case, wanting to solve it, wanting to move it forward. But I imagine it must be kind of hard, too, in a way, for family members, because you have memories of Molly as a sister. Your brother has memories of Molly as a sister. Your parents have memory of Molly as a daughter. She was a lifeguard. She was a friend. She was a person. She's not just Molly Bish, the murder victim.

• 1:18:10Speaker 01

  And I think sometimes that can get lost in translation, which I imagine can be kind of difficult for you guys at times.

• 1:18:16Speaker 02

  It is. And, you know, I think there's some, you know, there's some, I don't know. I think when, there's like a benefit of being able to talk about Molly. I think when you lose someone you love, whether it's a sibling, or a spouse, or your best friend, you know, people can kind of get weird, and they don't want to say anything. And they sometimes will even avoid walking down the same hallway as you, you know, just to not be in that awkward position. And I think, and so, you know, people don't get a chance to talk about the person that they loved, you know, and sometimes people are afraid to bring it up, because, you know, that loss was so sad and so devastating.

• 1:18:56Speaker 02

  But having the chance to talk about Molly, you know, and share, you know, the work that we do is really a reflection of Molly's love and her love for the world and people. And it's kept us going. And I guess that is a really special privilege of all this craziness and all the ugliness, is that we do get to talk about my sister and and think about her and share how our special memories and our moments of joy and how we were proud of her. And sometimes my brother and I will, you know, have conversations after we, you know, I do these podcasts, or there's a, you know, a news article or something, and

• 1:19:40Speaker 02

  we'll talk about like, what do you think she'd be like? Or who would she still be friends with from her friend group? Or what would she think of this particular situation? Or, you know, and then, you know, it's kind of, you know, fun for us to do that, to imagine what our life would be like to have her with us still, because we miss her. I mean, that loss is still felt every single day. You know, I miss calling her when something good happens. I really miss her on my birthday. I hate my birthday without my sister. It's still awful 20 years later. I just, she should be there with me. And every year that I have to face without her, it's like, you know,

• 1:20:21Speaker 02

  ripping that scab off and bleeding again. So it's, yeah, it's hard, but there's, there is, you try to, I guess, when there's hard things, always look for those moments that offer, you know, the good. And try to embrace that, because I don't know how we would survive all this terrible stuff in the world if we didn't.

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  Seriously. I can't even imagine trying to navigate this whole entire thing, you know, on top of everything else in the world. So,

• 1:20:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:20:54Speaker 02

  It's so hard.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  You have such a healthy way of looking at it.

• 1:20:58Speaker 00

  Of coping, yeah.

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  That I think a lot of people would have trouble doing.

• 1:21:02Speaker 02

  So we plug mental health and keeping care of our emotional health right now.

• 1:21:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:21:08Speaker 02

  And be not afraid to go to therapy for 20 years.

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:21:12Speaker 02

  Because it's so important to continue to unwrap how you're responding to the world, and how your family culture sort of trained you to respond to the world, and how, you know, you either want to continue that, or maybe think about a different way of doing it.

• 1:21:29Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:21:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're Irish Catholic over here, so we know all about that.

• 1:21:33Speaker 01

  We grew up in a big Irish Catholic family, so.

• 1:21:36Speaker 00

  We're like, maybe we should talk about our feelings.

• 1:21:39Speaker 02

  Right. Well, I just love the generation. Again, I work at a college, so I have the privilege of working with the younger generations. And I just love how they're growing up so much more inclusively, and talking about feelings. And I just think it's going to make a better world someday.

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, for sure.

• 1:21:59Speaker 00

  I know, and it's really up to us at this point, to teach, you know, the younger generations how to do that.

• 1:22:04Speaker 01

  Because I think our parents' generation was like, right at that point, where they were like, kind of ready to tell us to talk about our feelings.

• 1:22:12Speaker 00

  Towing the line.

• 1:22:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  It gets better each time.

• 1:22:15Speaker 02

  Yep, exactly.

• 1:22:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, going off of that, what is like, one thing about Molly, from a sister's perspective, that you want people to know about Molly? Or even like, a specific memory that you guys have together that makes you smile?

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  I think I always talk about Molly's love for the world. She loved people, she loved animals, she loved babies, she loved being outside, the sunshine, a beautiful day, getting an ice cream cone. She loved living. She loved life. She loved being a part of what was happening around her. And I think, you know, when I think about Molly, and I guess I'm always most proud of how she welcomed people. When she had an art class, she had some special needs students in there. And I always tell the story of how she would write them a note, and kind of like, encouraging them to be a part of the class, and welcoming them, and making them feel

• 1:23:13Speaker 02

  at home, because they weren't in the other classes with the rest of the students. They were in like, a sub separate classroom. And, you know, just her empathy and her ability to think about other people, that thoughtfulness. And I try to carry that out with me in my life, and think about different perspectives, and turn things over all the time, because of my sister. And she was my baby sister, but that's what she taught me in my life. And, you know, I hope that people know that the work that we do is because of that. Because Molly cared so much about people. She cared so much about the world, and, you know, making people feel safe and comfortable in their environment. And that's, you know,

• 1:23:55Speaker 02

  that's sort of, you know, the premise of everything that we want to see happening. And, you know, I guess when you have a case that's 20, almost 21 years old, you're like, where is this guy? And has he hurt other people? And you, you know, you guys explore all these various cases, and you know, there's a lot of bad guys out there. There's a lot. And it's so scary. And you can go from, you know, being a narcissist to a murderer in, you know, a short time.

• 1:24:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  And again, you know, that mental health is so important. But, you know, I think just trying to, you know, live in a way that we're trying to make the world safer because of Molly. And so, you know, recently, I've been working on this familial DNA legislation in Massachusetts, which they have in, like, I think 14 other states. And it's just really just a process to test the DNA, or unidentified DNA, from an older case, or an older, you know, maybe a rape case, or a murder,

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  and be able to have a larger, I call it a net, to sort of get the bad guy. And, you know, we have this CODIS system that has all of our felonies in their DNA profiles, theoretically. I know you guys know this.

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. No, go ahead, though. Yeah. Because this is, this is bill, is it S 1595?

• 1:25:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:34Speaker 01

  Okay. Yeah, because we were going to ask you, like, by all means, tell us as much as you can about that. Because we want everybody to know about that.

• 1:25:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it just really, what it does is it allows law enforcement to put this unidentified DNA forward into CODIS again, and test for a partial match or a familial match. So it might, you know, touch on someone 56% or 37%, but that will lead investigators to say, hmm, someone in this family committed this rape or committed this murder. And they can go back into the drawing board and sort of figure out where the players were in that family that day.

• 1:26:14Speaker 01

  It narrows the fields, like, unbelievably.

• 1:26:17Speaker 02

  And what's interesting to me that I found out is that 50% of the people in CODIS have a relative in CODIS. So.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  It's so funny, because I came across that, too, and it shocked me. I know, that's a high number.

• 1:26:32Speaker 02

  But then I thought, like, okay, well, there's a lot of teachers in my family. That's my family culture. And I guess that, you know, you're in a family culture that, you know, rapes or molests each other, that's going to continue.

• 1:26:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:46Speaker 02

  And so they want to have, you know, people getting arrested in the same family network that are experiencing that trauma. I mean, we all know that these behaviors aren't, you know, coming out of the blue. Most people are turning to crime and these horrific things that they do to other people because of trauma.

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Nurture is a huge part of it.

• 1:27:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, you know, that's a sad societal number, sorry, for us. But if we look at it in a law enforcement perspective, or a victim perspective, those are, I mean, those are, those are odds I'd put money on at a casino, you know?

• 1:27:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, seriously. For real.

• 1:27:27Speaker 02

  You know, we're going to get the bad guy. And we're using science. And it hasn't, you know, unidentified the wrong person, you know, it's actually used by the Innocence Project in Michigan as a way to exonerate people. So really, it's just, for this bill, it's just setting up a protocol in how we would do it in Massachusetts. And I'm just really, really hopeful that, you know, we can get this through. We have an 8,000, about 8,000 rape kit backlog in Massachusetts. So

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:27:58Speaker 02

  we need to get on top of what's happening forensically in our state. I mean, we're leaders with MIT and WCI. There's no reason, we're cranking out forensic scientists in Boston, and they're all leaving the state. We need to, you know, sort of, Put some resources together for our forensic, I think.

• 1:28:20Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Yeah, we need to nourish this. We have it here. We're building it here. We need to nourish it here.

• 1:28:26Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:28:28Speaker 02

  Exactly. And, you know, we have a lot of, you know, Worcester County alone has forty to sixty unresolved cases.

• 1:28:34Speaker 01

  That's so crazy. So sad.

• 1:28:36Speaker 02

  They go back to the fifties and, you know, technology might be able to identify this by now, you know? So it's just, I think it's just so important to use what, what scientific, you know, resources are available for law enforcement. I mean, in, in today's society, I mean, there's, you know, good cops and bad cops, just like everything, good teachers and bad teachers.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:29:00Speaker 02

  We want to give the good police officers all the tools available to get those bad people off the street. So, you know, there aren't like, there aren't eight thousand rape cases.

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  Yes. Cause I think that's, that's one of the huge things about this is this bill can not only help cases like Molly's and families, you know, that are going through the same thing that you're going through, but this can, those rape kits that are sitting on the shelf, it's like this can get rapists off the street. Like this is something everybody should be invested in and everybody should be behind.

• 1:29:33Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 1:29:35Speaker 02

  Hundred percent. And, you know, some of these rapes are, are violent.

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  You know, like, like I keep trying to stress and I, you know, I know I'm preaching to the choir with you guys, but, you know, it's a, it's a hair's breadth away when, when someone commits one crime to go to the next level.

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:29:52Speaker 02

  You know, is in a state of paranoia or psychosis to go, you know, further deeper. I, I think we just, you know, we need all our tools available.

• 1:30:02Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Cause some of these can connect to more violent, you know, offenders.

• 1:30:08Speaker 00

  offenses. Yeah.

• 1:30:09Speaker 01

  Like, you know, somebody raped someone and they could have escalated to something else and we have no idea.

• 1:30:13Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:30:14Speaker 02

  Yep, exactly. Exactly.

• 1:30:17Speaker 01

  Do you think, oh, oh, sorry, go ahead.

• 1:30:20Speaker 02

  Oh, I, so I was just gonna say, I, I, you know, I'm just really hopeful this time that it'll go through because we started this about two years ago. Um, I had talked to my, my law enforcement detectives and they had asked that, you know, Heather, if you want, you want to work on something, we could really use this familial DNA. And I had no idea what it was at the time. I'm just like, okay, let's do it.

• 1:30:41Speaker 00

  Sure. You're like, anything, let's do it.

• 1:30:44Speaker 02

  You know, being in Massachusetts, they're like, every other state has done this as a policy. And Massachusetts is like, no, we want a law.

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  You're like, great. Thanks, Mass.

• 1:30:56Speaker 02

  But I'm like, I will climb every mountain. I will scream from the mountaintop until I get this guy. And who cares how far it takes me? I am bound and determined. And, you know, now it's, you know, when you're in that club, you know, that everybody talks about that nobody wants to belong to like this, um, you know, you really start caring about all these other victims, particularly the ones that got attention. Like I constantly talk about Patty Gagne, who was murdered in Worcester. Her brother found her the next day. You know, people didn't search for Patty like they did for Molly, you know? And they, she didn't get the national attention that Molly has gotten. And, you know, I just hope that maybe this will help solve Patty Gagne's case too.

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:31:39Speaker 02

  Important as, as all these other victims, um, that I've seen on the news and, and in podcasts and, um, you know, so, you know, we're, we're all in this together and, and, you know, I'm just really hopeful that this will go through this time because we, during COVID, um, it, it kind of fell apart. And I, I was on the Massachusetts Person Task Force. So we were kind of looking at legislation that was floating around in Massachusetts and trying to, um, put a report together to encourage the legislators to just pass this kind of no brainer stuff.

• 1:32:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:13Speaker 02

  And they, they said, why don't we, uh, why don't we send your bill, Heather, over to the forensic oversight committee? And, you know, being an educator, I'm like, yes, I, I am used to working with like, you know, when I have a problem, I'm working with the autism specialist and the, you know, the fourth grade teacher. And, you know, we're all kind of coming up with something together. And I literally did a bill myself by, you know, a special ed teacher, not a forensic scientist.

• 1:32:39Speaker 01

  But here we go.

• 1:32:39Speaker 00

  You're like, I am putting on another hat.

• 1:32:42Speaker 02

  Seriously. So, um, it worked out really well because they provided the feedback where we were able to edit the bill really, um, to fit our logistical, you know, structures and systems in Massachusetts. And I think it's going in really strong. And I've been spending probably the last two months calling legislators and just asking them to support this. And, you know, most of them will, will see me or, or see me over Zoom.

• 1:33:08Speaker 02

  And, and have been really supportive, but, you know, some of them won't meet with me because I'm not in their jurisdiction. So I've been trying to start doing TikToks, um, and, and whatever media I can use to sort of get people who are in, you know, just people to react, to reach out to their legislators and ask them to support this bill. Um, and be the voice that I can't be in their jurisdiction to possibly get this passed. Um, you know, it's just, it's important for victim families. It's important for law enforcement. And it's most important for the justice where, where all these victims that we have.

• 1:33:45Speaker 01

  A hundred percent, definitely. Do you, is there anything else that people can do? Like people listening, other, like call legislation, obviously?

• 1:33:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say that would be the most important thing. If, if people could, you know, um, call their legislators and just ask them to support a 1595, um, in Massachusetts. And we have a, a list of legislators on our website.

• 1:34:08Speaker 01

  Oh, great.

• 1:34:09Speaker 02

  mollyvish.com. Um, so people, if you don't know who your legislator is or turned over, you know, things are kind of crazy this year with COVID. Who knows what, who's who or what's what.

• 1:34:22Speaker 00

  But that's good. You have that right there for people to find.

• 1:34:24Speaker 01

  And we'll share, we'll put that, the link in our show notes for this. And people will have all the places they can go.

• 1:34:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. We can even post like a picture of it. Yeah.

• 1:34:33Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. I really appreciate that.

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. I think this is like huge. Like I'm, we are fully like, yes, let's do this.

• 1:34:41Speaker 00

  When we stepped into this case and just kind of started going through everything, I think because we are sisters.

• 1:34:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:47Speaker 00

  Almost gave us that extra edge that like, we want to help you. We feel so connected to this.

• 1:34:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. It felt like Molly was like, we felt like your family reminded us so much of like, our big Massachusetts family. Like we just, your parents, just like, I remember us in the episode, we're just like, oh my God, I just love this family and I want them to get justice so badly.

• 1:35:09Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you so much. I, I just, I, you know, I feel like that, you know, Molly's love signing down somehow. When I started this, it's so interesting. I, there was a, you know, little article in the Cape Cod Times. I, I live out here in Cape Cod now. And, um, so this man, um, emailed me from California. His name is, um, Rock Harmon, and he's actually this DNA expert that travels the world training law enforcement and prosecutors and defense attorneys on using DNA and the different tools.

• 1:35:43Speaker 02

  And I didn't, I don't know who I'm talking to, but he, you know, he was very nice and really coaching me and helping me really understand the science part, which was really imperative for me to do this.

• 1:35:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, huge.

• 1:35:54Speaker 02

  So turns out he was, um, a former prosecutor on the OJ Simpson case.

• 1:36:00Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:36:02Speaker 02

  So, um, put by, you know, what had happened in that case, but that became a sort of a mission for him.

• 1:36:08Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 1:36:10Speaker 02

  Retired in California and he's been, you know, sending me articles and explaining things for me, going to meetings with me, talking to district attorneys to explain and the little nuances between like YSCR profiles and familial DNA. And what is, what are these little differences? Um, so he, you know, to me, those are like, when Mr. Roger talks about, look for the, you know, look for the helpers.

• 1:36:35Speaker 01

  Yes, look for the helpers. Yes.

• 1:36:37Speaker 02

  That's the helpers and that's, um, you know, the, those are the things you hold on to in life. And remember all the good and the good people that are still out there, um, because we're much stronger than, than, you know, these people who are really sick and, and committed horrific acts.

• 1:36:56Speaker 00

  Right. And there's been a lot of people of interest, it seems, over the course of the past 20 years. Is there anyone on this suspect list that, or anyone on, uh, as a person of interest that you think is a good candidate for this? Or do you think that it's someone we maybe even haven't looked at yet?

• 1:37:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wish, you know, I, I wish I could just feel like, you know, that sisterly connection that that's the guy. But there's so much circumstantial, circumstantial evidence.

• 1:37:25Speaker 01

  So much.

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  Some particular people that have been out there in the media. And, um, you know, there's always that wild card that was this just someone that happened to go smoke a cigarette, asked before he went to work or after he dropped off, you know, his mother at an appointment or something and saw this lifeguard there and then came back the next day and grabbed her.

• 1:37:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:50Speaker 02

  You know, I, I, I've never really been able to identify the guy in the white car. He's never come forward. So could he be Rodney Stanker? Could he be Jar- Jarrod Barstoni? Could he be, um, you know, any of the, of the number of other people that have been brought up?

• 1:38:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:38:07Speaker 02

  Possibly, possibly because we know witness, you know, um, testimony is kind of tricky. And my mom, you know, saw the guy, but yeah. It, it, it's hard to say that's the guy, that's the guy, that's definitely the guy. They all look like the guy.

• 1:38:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, they all do in some specific way. It's true. It must be so frustrating too, because I'm sure you get this really giant feeling of hope every time a new person is introduced.

• 1:38:32Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I do. And, you know, you, you just, you, you know, you try to make sense of who, who would, um, how would they exist after and who, you know, who could possibly do this after 20 years and just fit? You know, what are they doing now? I mean, that's I think what gives me the most anxiety is where is this guy and what is he doing? If he's in jail, great. If he's dead, great. If he's one of those two guys and he's either dead or in jail, then okay, but

• 1:39:02Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:39:02Speaker 02

  No one's And so it's hard to rest, you know?

• 1:39:06Speaker 00

  Oh, I can't imagine.

• 1:39:07Speaker 02

  Know that and um, uh, you know, I, I, I wish I, I wish I could, you know, know, I, you know, we talked to psychics. I mean, when Molly first disappeared, I had a, an eleven month old baby and I would have her on my hip and I'd be running through the woods with these psychics and I mean, I didn't know if I was gonna find my sister's body or or something, you know, it was so terrifying, but you didn't know what to do and you're just trying to do something. Um, but you know, no one's ever been able to say exactly and point me to the evidence. I mean, I've worked with some really, really great psychics I think are, you know,

• 1:39:48Speaker 02

  meaning well and, and authentic, but still have not been able to break down, you know, who did this? And, and you know, so I've tried, I've tried every avenue for sure. I mean, we've put up billboards, we've taken out ads in newspapers, we've, um, I've put up posters in three hundred and fifty-one towns in Massachusetts and um, you know, I've actually hired producers to document a YouTube movie video. Um, so, so that I could keep my, you know, parent's story and, and, and a sort of a summary on the story and, and be able to share it because of the time lapse and people not, you know, necessarily remembering what happened.

• 1:40:32Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:40:34Speaker 02

  So, you know, we've tried everything and, and you know, the, the results of the familial searching and across the country are just so phenomenal and really hopeful and you know, that even the genetic genealogy work they're doing.

• 1:40:47Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:40:48Speaker 02

  Plus, I, I'm, I'm just so hopeful that Massachusetts will really grab onto that and, and, and demonstrate, you know, the, the leadership that they, um, should be having in this field, I, I think.

• 1:41:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, cuz it does feel like it's like, it's like right there.

• 1:41:05Speaker 01

  There, like it could be hidden in there somewhere. Why are we not doing this?

• 1:41:09Speaker 02

  I mean, the stuff they're doing in California is, is

• 1:41:12Speaker 00

  Unbelievable.

• 1:41:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, we have this controversy right now with these Y S P R lists. Um, and, um, some of the district attorneys are keeping what, what the forensic lab in Massachusetts is calling rogue lists, but I would, I would probably just call them unregulated.

• 1:41:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 1:41:33Speaker 02

  So they would get like a profile back, you know, they might get a crime scene, um, DNA or, or sometimes they, they're even, they, they're even using voluntary DNA, but they're, you know, putting it through the lab, it doesn't have a hit. And they're keeping the, the, the profile, um, separately. I'm not really supposed to do that, but they're saying, nothing's saying that they can't do that. And Bristol County was able to solve a case, um, with Plymouth, working together, uh, on that. The thing is, Y S P R only gives you father-son profiles, so it's a little more limiting.

• 1:42:07Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 1:42:08Speaker 02

  But, and so if you did like, like if you, like if I was in charge of the world or the, uh, you know, you do the first CODIS search, right? And then you do the familial, cuz that's gonna catch the wire net. You actually don't need the Y S P R profile if you do the familial, kinda negates it.

• 1:42:25Speaker 00

  Oh, that makes sense. Right.

• 1:42:27Speaker 02

  Uh, so, but I mean, if they're not in CODIS, I mean, I, I, I, you know, there, there's value to it if it's regulated. Um, Orange County uses it in California and they basically will like let a guy off on a misdemeanor if he gives them their DNA and then they catch them for a rape, you know, three months later. I mean, they're dealing with a probably a different population.

• 1:42:50Speaker 02

  Getting life out there and stuff, but, um, um, you know, it, it's, it's an effective tool and certainly has demonstrated to be effective here. And I think that maybe is just maybe a separate bill that needs to be, um, put forward differently.

• 1:43:05Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:43:06Speaker 02

  But I always try to explain it because, you know, it's on the news and, and sometimes the reporters don't go into the whole story of what's really happening here.

• 1:43:14Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:43:15Speaker 02

  And, you know, I get why the, the DAs are doing it. Again, they wanna solve these eight thousand rapes that are backlogged at the lab. They're definitely committed to getting the bad guys off the street. It's just, you know, you know, again, I think we just need to update our twenty-two E law and, and make these, um, you know, changes to our protocols so that we can do these tests and, um, you know, have these tools and see what happens.

• 1:43:41Speaker 00

  Definitely. One of the things that we actually talked about in our episode was, um, at the old Sawmill Campground that you guys use the ground penetrating radar and I didn't really see any update on that after like two thousand and eighteen. Was that any, did anything like useful come of that or anything at all?

• 1:43:59Speaker 02

  Oh, that was a good one. So I, you know, have, have worked with a number of different private investigators over, you know, since I guess when my father had a stroke, I kind of took over the investigation in two thousand and seven.

• 1:44:13Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:44:13Speaker 02

  So I worked with different, a couple of different ones, bringing different people forward. Um, we had a volunteer in our foundation who, who, you know, was volunteering in two thousand and three when she was getting her degrees in, um, criminal, criminology and forensic and stuff like that. She ended up getting a doctorate and moving back here, um, you know, a few years before that, um, ground penetrating car thing happened. And she was trying to help me cuz I, you know, again, I'm like running out of ideas. Okay, I put up, you know, posters, I put up ads, I put up, um, you know, all these things, what, what else can I do? And so we came up with an idea of doing a tip campaign and she was gonna use her students from college where she taught to collect the tips

• 1:44:58Speaker 02

  and then we sort of organized them and then present them to the police. And so that's how this third person of interest sort of came forward, um, that she sort of identified to these, um, this tip campaign. Um, because of that, she felt really strongly that there was a car in this campground. So she arranged with someone from the University of Connecticut to come out and use this ground penetrating radar. However, our state police were not involved in it and I was asked at my daughter's, um, she was just starting college orientation. Um, and so we were, you know, I wasn't available and it turned into sort of this media circus and

• 1:45:42Speaker 02

  I was kind of upset cuz it was supposed to be like, you know, I like to work with the police. You know, again, I recognize all the issues. I'm, literally have a book ready to publish on my relationship with the police and how it's impacted my life.

• 1:45:55Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. Congratulations on writing a book. That's huge.

• 1:45:59Speaker 02

  Got a couple of edits to do, but you, you know, I, I still try to work with them. I try to, um, encourage best practices and, and, and have the hope that this institution is going to, um, you know, someday get the, get the concept here.

• 1:46:17Speaker 00

  Oh, that's great.

• 1:46:19Speaker 02

  So I could just, I've been saying that lately enough, but

• 1:46:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:46:24Speaker 02

  So, so I was kind of upset that she, you know, had it turn out this way. And so I was like, let's cease and desist. I don't wanna do this anymore. And, um, and she just kept pushing. She ended up having a, um, a press conference without my, my, our, our knowledge, acknowledgement.

• 1:46:43Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 1:46:44Speaker 02

  So it really, and I was like, you, you've crossed my boundaries now.

• 1:46:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:46:51Speaker 02

  Let's stop this now. And so I never found out what happened with the car. I don't think it's I'm certain that the police could get that information, um, and they, her, were so irritated and so close to like charging her that, um, it never, so I don't think that there's anything to the campground or the car.

• 1:47:13Speaker 00

  Okay, that makes sense. That's so frustrating.

• 1:47:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then she wrote a book after.

• 1:47:19Speaker 00

  Oh, oh, my goodness. Yeah.

• 1:47:21Speaker 01

  You kidding me?

• 1:47:22Speaker 00

  That is not okay.

• 1:47:23Speaker 02

  But you know what she did? It would've been fine if she had done like a case study on Molly.

• 1:47:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:47:28Speaker 02

  Again, she had the education to do that, but she put my parent's speeches into the book and like put herself into our story, like she was part of our life.

• 1:47:37Speaker 00

  Oh, no. Oh, that, that honestly like gives me like a pit in my stomach.

• 1:47:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna say my stomach just flipped.

• 1:47:43Speaker 00

  Gross.

• 1:47:44Speaker 02

  Literally, like she wrote letters to Molly in this book. Like if you read this book, you're fully smoked.

• 1:47:50Speaker 00

  Oh, hate that. See, that's the thing that's frustrating. Like to have to go through that. Yeah.

• 1:47:56Speaker 02

  Very betraying, very violating.

• 1:47:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's the thing. Violation is what it feels like. Right.

• 1:48:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, very, very much so.

• 1:48:04Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:48:05Speaker 02

  So, um, yeah, I mean, that's where that went. So I'm kind of just, um, doing this on my own, but I'm so appreciative of these, you know, podcasts updating about the case and, and, you know, the work that we're trying to do to keep it going and, um, you know, I, I'm, I'm not sure what I'll have to do after, after this bill, but I'm sure there's, there's more work to be done to, um, report these cases. Um, you know, I was talking to a producer the other day and I said, if I told you, um, that I was in a relationship with someone who, you know, gaslighted me and protected and, um,

• 1:48:47Speaker 02

  you know, and I kind of gave her some specific situations that had happened and she was like, oh, yeah, I would say you're in an abusive relationship. And I said, what if I told her that was the state police and it wasn't a man?

• 1:48:56Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. That was the perfect way to do that.

• 1:48:59Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 1:49:01Speaker 02

  No, the drop.

• 1:49:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. Like she's like, hold on a sec. Does that change things or?

• 1:49:07Speaker 02

  Right. And I told her, I said, and, and then I'm a white woman with a sister who's blonde and blue eyed and we know those cases get more attention.

• 1:49:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:49:16Speaker 02

  And I have, and I have a doctorate, I'm educated and I'm still treated this way.

• 1:49:20Speaker 00

  Yes, I imagine.

• 1:49:22Speaker 02

  And my father was in law enforcement. He was a probation officer. So there's a, you know, they're a little nice about my dad, but You know, if they're treating me this way, how do you think they're treating Patty Gani's family?

• 1:49:34Speaker 01

  Yes, absolutely.

• 1:49:36Speaker 02

  That's, that's, I think, probably a lifelong work that all of us victim family members are pushing and, and sort of trying to figure out how to, um, you know, get our points across and get them to understand our perspective without being sort of labeled the crazy victim family members.

• 1:49:59Speaker 01

  Right. Well, and I feel like that's something we can all take from Molly and who she was and who, you know, you knew her as and who everyone who knew her knew her as, which is like empathy, caring about the world, caring about other people.

• 1:50:13Speaker 00

  Putting yourself in somebody else's shoes.

• 1:50:15Speaker 01

  This is what everybody should be learning is like, it's not just about mine, it's about everybody else's too.

• 1:50:20Speaker 00

  You know what? It's like be Molly in art class.

• 1:50:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:50:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:50:25Speaker 01

  That should be everybody's thought.

• 1:50:27Speaker 00

  It should.

• 1:50:28Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 1:50:29Speaker 01

  I'm so happy you shared that with us. That made me honestly like choke up a little bit.

• 1:50:33Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:50:34Speaker 02

  That's great. Oh, thank you, guys. I really appreciate it.

• 1:50:40Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. One of the other things that we had spoken about in our episode, and I was just curious as to your opinion on this, is the Holly Perinon case. I, I know it's like heavily compared to Molly's case and some of the suspects or persons of interest were looked at in both cases. Do you think that maybe those cases are connected or what are your thoughts on that?

• 1:50:59Speaker 02

  You know, I think that there is certainly, um, lots of room to look at the connections. I think that's really incredibly important, but I don't necessarily think it's the same person, but I do that, you know, my father used to say, if you lay down with dogs, you're gonna get fleas.

• 1:51:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:19Speaker 02

  Watch who your friends are, right?

• 1:51:23Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:51:24Speaker 02

  So I kind of think that there's a, a group out in that area, again, these generational trauma, you know?

• 1:51:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:33Speaker 02

  Same kind of history of violence, history of family violence, history of beating, history of molestation, history of, you know, Uncle Marion, the cousin, sister, brother, you know, like that kind of stuff. And they're all connected in these weird ways. And that's the stuff I talk to the detectives about because I'm like, do you understand this? I know when I walk into your office, it's not gonna be like, um, you know, like the TV shows where you've got the, all the guys and the strings connecting people and, you know.

• 1:52:02Speaker 01

  We always talk about that.

• 1:52:04Speaker 02

  Literally don't even have data systems that talk to each other barely.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:52:08Speaker 02

  So, so even look up a guy, you know, that some, a while ago is, is difficult for them. And then to get the larger perspective of, um, sorry.

• 1:52:21Speaker 01

  Oh, no, it's okay. I have a dog too, so I get it.

• 1:52:24Speaker 02

  Dogs and villains. And so to have those nuances and know that this guy was best friends with this guy or their cousins or their, they used to, um, I don't know, ride motorcycles together, like those little nuances, I'm afraid are missed.

• 1:52:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:44Speaker 02

  Um, they don't know, they're not from, you know, Warren, Massachusetts or Sturbridge, Massachusetts, where you don't necessarily know that, you know, and I'm making these names up, the Smiths are related to the Johnsons or, or whatever. They, they don't have that kind of network information. So that's the stuff I'm afraid gets lost. And that, those are the key pieces that I think could possibly show that there's a tie in between Holly and Molly's case.

• 1:53:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:13Speaker 02

  I mean, different, you know, ages, different situations and how they were abducted, certainly different times. And again, I keep trying to say, I mean, it gets so easy to want to believe that it's one bad guy killing all these girls in a specific area, the sad reality is that there's a lot of different bad guys and they're all killing different girls or everything.

• 1:53:34Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's like indicative of like a darker pathology as a whole in that, in the community, you know, that like a subculture isn't looked at.

• 1:53:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:53:43Speaker 02

  Yep, exactly, exactly. And that's what's so scary. And, and that's why it's so important to continue, um, to look for ways to protect, um, you know, our children and our women and, you know, our, our society and, you know, sharing these stories and, and working on legislation and, and, um, encouraging the mental health component, I think are just, you know, such, um, important pieces to continue to talk about and, and, and discuss and, and provide reasons why.

• 1:54:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Definitely. Exactly. I think, oh, sorry, go ahead.

• 1:54:24Speaker 02

  I was gonna say, real quick, I, I think one of the really, um, transformative moments for me was when that little girl, and I don't know if you remember, well, maybe two years ago now, there was a little girl abducted in Springfield, Massachusetts.

• 1:54:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:54:38Speaker 02

  And they, Amber Alert, and she was recovered. I mean, all right, that she had been through some pretty bad trauma, but she was recovered alive. And I called my mom and I said, Mom, that was yesterday. Because we always, when we started the foundation, we were always like, we don't know if we're really helping, you know? We don't know if we're saving children. Like, there's no, you know, data system saying, oh, this kid wasn't abducted because, you know, Maggie Bish helped bring Amber Alert to Massachusetts or started this in Children's Day or, you know, started talking about child identification kits. Um, so when that happened, and my mom did, um, work on the Amber Alert law coming to Massachusetts and, um, talked Ted Kennedy into, um, signing that bill. And, and so I felt like she needed that.

• 1:55:21Speaker 02

  She needed to know that that little girl had been saved because of her work and her efforts. And I think if we continue to do things like that, you know, other little girls will be saved. And, and, you know, maybe we won't have to, um, you know, experience these kinds of tragedies and traumas anymore. And again, if we continue to look at trauma and, and understand it and, and, and try to support people through it, um, you know, maybe things will look differently for everybody.

• 1:55:48Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I think that's like the main message there right there.

• 1:55:51Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:55:52Speaker 01

  And also your family is, there's, you are such badasses.

• 1:55:55Speaker 00

  You have done such incredible work, all of you together.

• 1:55:58Speaker 01

  It's unreal.

• 1:55:59Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you. I mean, again, I, I think it's just, um, you know, an outlet to love my sister and, you know, share that love. And, and that's really all you can do in your face for something like this.

• 1:56:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it really is. I think kind of just to end all of this, what can, what, what is one last thing you can tell us all that we can do to help you and your family get Molly's case solved?

• 1:56:28Speaker 02

  Well, I think the best thing anyone could do right now is to go on mollybish.com and find their Massachusetts, or just say their, if they're in Massachusetts, and reach out to him or her and ask them to support S-1595, um, to be passed this, this year. Um, if you're not from Massachusetts, um, you know, continuing to share Molly's story, continuing to share the results of, um, familial DNA analysis across the country. I mean, right now, we only have about 14, 15 states that have it, and there's 50 states in this country. So we really get on, get on this. Cause there's certainly Molly's case and, you know, isn't the only case.

• 1:57:12Speaker 02

  I mean, there's friends in Minnesota and, um, Florida who have experienced, um, equally traumatizing abductions in their family. And, you know, having these tools are, are important for all of us to have, um, in this country and to keep us all safer.

• 1:57:27Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And I think I want to encourage everyone to go to the Molly Bish Foundation webpage, which will, we're gonna link all of these things in the show notes, so everybody can get to all of this. Also, if you want to read Bill S-1595, um, I'm gonna link where you can read that too, because you can go on the masslegislator.gov website to find it. Uh, but I think this is, it's important, everybody should know that this is like so far reaching, this is so necessary, it's so important that this bill goes through. So everybody give your support.

• 1:58:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, as a true crime community, let's come together and get this done.

• 1:58:04Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:58:05Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

• 1:58:08Speaker 01

  No, thank you.

• 1:58:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us and everything you shared was just like so, so eye opening.

• 1:58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really was. This was such an awesome conversation.

• 1:58:18Speaker 02

  Thank you. I really appreciate it. And I just really appreciate you guys and your, um, support and your dedication and, um, you know, being from Massachusetts.

• 1:58:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. Thank you so much.

• 1:58:34Speaker 00

  And we'll absolutely stay in touch. And if anything else that, anything else comes up that we can do to help, like, we really want to help work with you.

• 1:58:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, we feel like very strongly about this case, about you guys, your family, about Molly. We would love to push this forward in any way we can.

• 1:58:50Speaker 02

  Awesome. Thank you so very much. I will definitely stay in touch.

• 1:58:55Speaker 01

  Absolutely. You are welcome anytime here.

• 1:58:57Speaker 00

  You have our number now, so text us anytime or call.

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  Any updates, we'll have you right back on.

• 1:59:02Speaker 02

  Okay. Thank you.

• 1:59:05Speaker 01

  Thank you so much, Heather.

• 1:59:07Speaker 02

  Take care.

• 1:59:08Speaker 01

  You too.

• 1:59:09Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 1:59:10Speaker 00

  Bye. So we hope you guys enjoyed that episode.

• 1:59:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:59:15Speaker 00

  I think it was awesome. And you can go to the mollybishfoundation.com, or excuse me, mollybishfoundation.com to contact your legislators and ask them to support Bill S-1595.

• 1:59:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we'll put all that in the show notes, so just look at where you look at the details for the episode and we'll have all those, all the, uh, links in there that you can follow. But do it. I think it's, it's good for everybody. It's gonna benefit us all, so.

• 1:59:38Speaker 00

  It is. And thanks again to Heather for joining us.

• 1:59:40Speaker 01

  Thank you so much, Heather. You were a gem.

• 1:59:43Speaker 00

  So guys, we hope you keep listening.

• 1:59:44Speaker 01

  And we hope you.

• 1:59:45Speaker 00

  Keep it weird. But it's over there, you don't call about Bill S-1595.

• 1:59:52Speaker 01

  Woo.

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