How To Find & Maintain A Happy Relationship | Relationships 102

Relationships 101 landed in the Top 50 Chart Worldwide on Apple Podcasts, and now it's time for the sequel. Jonny & Yusef join me today as we use our successes & tragedies in dating to establish some principles & strategies to optimise relationships, maximise happiness and avoid heartbreak (where possible). Expect to learn why "seeing" someone is a no man's land of emotional turmoil, why we all believe that the truth is a super power and why the first 6 weeks of a relationship are the most crucial. - Video editing & production by Dean Hindmarch https://www.deanhindmarch.com/ https://www.instagram.com/deanhindmarch - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/modern-wisdom/id1347973549 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0XrOqvxlqQI6bmdYHuIVnr?si=iUpczE97SJqe1kNdYBipnw Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - I want to hear from you!! Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Email: [email protected]

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Chris Williamson?

  Relationships 102. Jonny and Youssef from Pro Pen Fitness are joining us again. Relationships 101 went down really well. If you haven't watched it, link will be in the description and video guiding will make it appear around our heads. That clip of you saying, "It doesn't have to be better, it just has to be different" is from. It is indeed, man.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Live men cheat, as explained by Family Guy. Very buzzfeedy video.

• 0:30Chris Williamson?

  Oh, crazy buzzfeedy, but went down well. So today we are going to do Relationships 102. I think we're going to talk a little bit more about how to cultivate a good relationship, some principles that you can stick to. I've got some comments to make about what seeing someone means, which is a no man's land of emotional distress. So Relationships 102, where did we leave off last time?

• 0:57Speaker 01

  We talked about the initial phase of like having met someone to beginning something.

• 1:04Chris Williamson?

  Something slightly more exclusive.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I think I want to, I'm going to delve straight in.

• 1:11Chris Williamson?

  I don't know whether you two, because both of you are kind of like serial monogamists, right? Ish, like at least in recent, recent memory. Certainly recently, yeah. Yeah, and I think there's for anyone who's listening who's been used to being single and hasn't been in like a proper, proper relationship for a little while. You will know the no man's land of emotional turmoil that is seeing somebody. And I think that that is just an absolute barren wasteland of nothingless, meaningless. Like it is one step above having sex with being friends with benefits and everything below being exclusive. There's a bit of commitment, but no reward.

• 1:52Chris Williamson?

  So I think anyone who's seen somebody, unless it's mutually and absolutely transparently explained to both parties, just needs to give up on it now. You need to either step forward into a relationship or step back into having sex with other people as well, and I'll explain why. What are you laughing at?

• 2:12Speaker 01

  Just you reminded me about the friends with benefits thing and David was talking about this too, that we. I think if you're just nice to someone who is a friend with benefit, a friend with a benefit.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  Their assumption, because they're on the the defensive, is like, whoa, whoa, don't fall in love with me now. And you're like, all right, let us head like I'm not going to fall. I'm just just being nice.

• 2:33Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  But it's like the instant fear that the other person is becoming too attached.

• 2:39Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. So I think the reason that I don't like seeing somebody, and I can speak from personal experience on this. What you think you're getting when you start seeing somebody is all of the benefits of having a regular girlfriend or boyfriend with none of the, it's down the far side, make you drink, you're gonna have to reach. Um. With none of the disadvantages, with none of the um justification for them to ask you where you've been or who you've been messaging or whatever. You want to be able to have your cake and eat it. And I think that people believe that.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  This is friends with benefits?

• 3:11Chris Williamson?

  No, this is seeing seeing someone. Um. I think friends with benefits, like, it just so quickly turns into seeing someone now. And the the way that you pull that back, the only way that you can do that, and the only way you can fix it, is by being completely transparent about exactly what's going on. And continuing to do it all the time. But what happens so much.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Long term friends with benefits, like truly situation, has to either be two psychopaths or two really busy people that just have very.

• 3:38Chris Williamson?

  Utilitarian transactional relationship. Like, I need something from you, you need something from me, a little bit of companionship.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  It's bilateral prostitution where the the feet cancels each other out, and so they're both at break even again.

• 3:49Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, fair.

• 3:55Chris Williamson?

  You're laughing at bilateral prostitution.

• 3:57Jonny?

  It was just the way that you delivered it from a place of anger, and then you looked at me like.

• 4:04Chris Williamson?

  So, um, yeah, I think seeing someone is just, it's a a terrible position to be in.

• 4:11Jonny?

  You're repeatedly having sex with the same person?

• 4:14Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 4:15Jonny?

  Are there?

• 4:16Chris Williamson?

  It's it's not.

• 4:16Jonny?

  Anything else happen?

• 4:17Chris Williamson?

  No, so it's seeing someone is being boyfriend or girlfriend with a partner without being the title.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Without the label. Okay.

• 4:24Chris Williamson?

  It's what people believe and what it feels.

• 4:29Jonny?

  Pedantry wanna want me like I don't understand where.

• 4:32Chris Williamson?

  It's a precursor, isn't it? It's it's where both parties are too afraid to.

• 4:36Jonny?

  What to say.

• 4:37Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 4:37Jonny?

  So you're you're spending a bit of time with each other's houses, maybe.

• 4:41Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 4:41Jonny?

  Go for food.

• 4:42Chris Williamson?

  You probably spend spend a lot of time with each other.

• 4:43Jonny?

  But it's not.

• 4:44Chris Williamson?

  We're our boyfriend and girlfriend and I mean, the universal language, the universal currency of this is, is it Facebook official?

• 4:52Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 4:52Chris Williamson?

  Like, if it's not listed on Facebook.

• 4:54Jonny?

  It's a great system.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Have you ever listed a relationship on Facebook?

• 4:57Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 4:57Jonny?

  I have.

• 4:58Chris Williamson?

  Really?

• 4:58Jonny?

  No, why not?

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Like Jonathan is seeing.

• 5:01Jonny?

  On my profile now?

• 5:04Jonny?

  Exactly.

• 5:05Chris Williamson?

  There you go, and that's what you think.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  It was a hiccup of shock.

• 5:07Chris Williamson?

  Um.

• 5:10Jonny?

  It's the diaphragm. What, why, why, why not?

• 5:14Chris Williamson?

  You don't like personal information being out in the open world.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Absolutely not, especially not a relationship. I just think that's nobody's business.

• 5:22Chris Williamson?

  Interesting.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  But.

• 5:23Jonny?

  Well, it's my business and the other person's business.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:26Jonny?

  And I suppose your business.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Chris's business. To a degree.

• 5:30Chris Williamson?

  I don't I don't make any money off your relationship. I'm not sure it's my business at all.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  How do you know that you don't? In fact, yes, you do.

• 5:36Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, you're right, I do.

• 5:39Chris Williamson?

  Thanks for coming to my club nights, Becca.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 5:41Chris Williamson?

  So, um, yeah, basically, I think people believe that seeing someone is this wonderful best of both worlds scenario. Where you're going to get companionship, but also freedom. And what actually inevitably ends up happening is it's a game of emotional chicken with the other person.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Thinly sliced.

• 5:57Chris Williamson?

  Thinly sliced chicken in a pressure cooker. And what what you're playing, the way that the game of chicken works is whoever gets feelings first loses. And it just ends up, it's a countdown clock to someone doing something which crosses a boundary that was never defined.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 6:16Chris Williamson?

  Like, if you sleep with someone else. And you haven't identified that you're supposed to be exclusive with someone because seeing someone is in this beautiful.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, then then there's a slimy get out card for the other person being like, oh, well, we never said it, we were exclusive, so actually I'm at free range to do whatever. And it's like, hmm.

• 6:33Jonny?

  You know.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  There is a, there's kind of a code of honour.

• 6:35Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Where, yes, that it hasn't been discussed yet, there's an implication.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  It's it's a grey area.

• 6:42Chris Williamson?

  You don't cross it.

• 6:43Jonny?

  Shit will get off the pot, really, is the advice for that, isn't it?

• 6:46Chris Williamson?

  I just think to.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Stop being scared and just.

• 6:48Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 6:48Chris Williamson?

  But one of the problems.

• 6:49Jonny?

  You're going to sell them at seven quid an hour.

• 6:52Chris Williamson?

  Seven, seven sixty.

• 6:53Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  I think we need the clip of that as well.

• 6:55Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, Dean will make sure that that goes in. So I think that basically you need to. You need to make a commitment with regards to this sort of stuff because you think you're getting the best of both worlds and you're actually not, you're not getting anything of either. Because certainly for me, when I'm in situations like that, if I do start chatting to someone else or. Start spending time with another girl or whatever, I immediately get these horrible pangs of guilt about doing something. And then the thought loop of, well, I'm not doing anything wrong. Well, I should be allowed to do this. Well, actually, no, because you. And I know in my heart of hearts that my deepest virtue says no.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  The fact that that thought loop is going on.

• 7:33Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Is the internal.

• 7:35Chris Williamson?

  That in itself. And the other thing is you go, well, you never know what the other person's doing. Well, you know, they haven't said, she hasn't said that she's not going to do it. So you just keep on going back to.

• 7:43Jonny?

  Why there should be contracts in place the whole time.

• 7:46Chris Williamson?

  Contractually obligations.

• 7:47Jonny?

  May.

• 7:48Chris Williamson?

  I mean, you've not got a contract with Beckett.

• 7:50Jonny?

  I don't, but, well, no, no, as far as you know, as far as I'm willing to, I don't have a contract.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  So.

• 7:56Chris Williamson?

  Has she contracted you in?

• 7:59Jonny?

  I've contracted her in.

• 8:00Chris Williamson?

  Have you?

• 8:00Jonny?

  No.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  The conclusion of Relationships 101, or one of them, was that many of these gaps that we see that cause suffering are from lack of. Clear communication.

• 8:11Chris Williamson?

  Hundred percent.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  And in this case, it's exactly the same.

• 8:13Chris Williamson?

  Hundred percent.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  But nobody can socially acceptably say like, oh, I'm too afraid of commitment to give us a label yet, or I'm. I'm still not sure if I like you fully, so I don't want to jump in because saying that is a social faux pas in itself. So then there needs to be a way to either.

• 8:28Jonny?

  So if both people separately discuss it with a solicitor.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 8:32Jonny?

  Contracts are brought together.

• 8:33Chris Williamson?

  Get a bursar.

• 8:34Jonny?

  Yeah, get a bursar involved.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  So this is why Tinder. So the, like, the, the idea behind Tinder could work at the next level as well, which is that both people put in a blind vote. They don't get to see what the other person's.

• 8:46Chris Williamson?

  Like steal, share or steal.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Yes, it's, it is split or.

• 8:49Chris Williamson?

  It's a prisoner's dilemma.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Because you, you described it as chicken, which is exactly what it is. Like, it is game theory. It's the prisoners' dilemma. Like, if both people split. Then, fine. If one person splits, the other person steals. That's one person cheating and the other person, well, not cheating, but.

• 9:03Chris Williamson?

  And if they both, both cheat, then fine.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:06Chris Williamson?

  I I just think it it's such like, as I see it all the time, right? Like, I've I've got access to two hundred under twenty one year old guys and two hundred under twenty one year old girls.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  My car can go hundred miles an hour.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  I know the words to Candle in the Wind.

• 9:25Jonny?

  Well, I wanna make a spoon roast once.

• 9:26Chris Williamson?

  That is a long joke that I'm not prepared. I'm not prepared to get into today.

• 9:34Jonny?

  No, let's explain. So.

• 9:35Chris Williamson?

  No, no. Let me tell you about the old, old wooden trees. So.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Just outdoing each other with rubbish.

• 9:42Jonny?

  I I have a framework for this discussion.

• 9:45Chris Williamson?

  Fantastic.

• 9:45Jonny?

  Do you wanna hear the framework?

• 9:46Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 9:46Jonny?

  Cause I think it would help frame all of this.

• 9:48Chris Williamson?

  Hmm, great. Love a framework.

• 9:50Jonny?

  Question one is, should we be in a relationship at all?

• 9:55Chris Williamson?

  Who are you asking? Me?

• 9:56Jonny?

  This is the beginning of the framework, Chris. It's a rhetorical question. So a relationship versus being single. And then, once you've decided that I feel like I'm gonna put across as a pretty strong argument that you should be in a relationship, then who should he be in a relationship with?

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 10:10Jonny?

  And then, as I hear you sort of about to ask, how do I find the person?

• 10:16Jonny?

  Exactly. And then, once I've found that person, well, the next question is.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Do I get them?

• 10:20Jonny?

  Not when, that's covered in in how.

• 10:24Jonny?

  Question is, once you're in a relationship with that person, how do you keep that person in a relationship with you? Without using, without using stuff like that or.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Strong arm them.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  The the top of the head and circular motion.

• 10:37Jonny?

  Yep, exactly. Have you been, you must have seen my notes.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Sorry, I was.

• 10:43Chris Williamson?

  Cheating. Okay, so I think we've covered, I think we've covered most of the ones up to. How do you keep a relationship?

• 10:52Jonny?

  I don't think we have.

• 10:53Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  I think, let's move forward. Let's move forward into relationships, because I want to do a whole one on single, single.

• 11:04Jonny?

  I want to make one point.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:06Jonny?

  Which is that I think where a lot of people get trapped. You look immediately bored.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  That's just my face?

• 11:15Jonny?

  You try.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  That's my, that's my resting bitch face.

• 11:17Jonny?

  Second hand car market. That's what it's like.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  You were talking about this the other day. We discussed this in the Big Dicks group, didn't we?

• 11:24Jonny?

  We did. So I think people, so this is, this is under, should I be in a relationship or not? So let's say you're 25, for example, and you're thinking, I'm moving towards 30 quicker than I feel comfortable with. I'm not really happy with how my life is. I feel like maybe I should be getting in a relationship. Maybe a few of your friends are, one of them's engaged, a couple of them are maybe having kids or something like that.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  You've had to go to 15 weddings in the last month.

• 11:48Jonny?

  Yeah, me too. Um, and so you, there's this decision of like, should I be single or not? And I think there's a point at which, if you're not careful, all of the people who are people that you would actually want to be in a relationship with are in relationships. And then what you're left with is.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Dregs.

• 12:06Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Sort of scraping the bottom of the brow.

• 12:08Jonny?

  Which is like when you're buying a second hand car, you don't know whether it's a great value steal or whether it's two cars that have been welded together and they're giving you shit certificates.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Well, because what, what you've got there is there is a statistical distribution of ages that people typically pair off at. As you grow older, that total population diminishes, but also the average quality also drops.

• 12:33Jonny?

  Yep.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  You presume that the cream gets taken off the top first. Cream gets taken off the top, which brings the mean down. And so, yes, there still are high quality people on both ends of that, that now skewed bell curve, but you.

• 12:48Jonny?

  There's fewer, fewer per sample size, right?

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Fewer per sample size and smaller sample size.

• 12:52Jonny?

  Which means the price is higher, which means you've got to be more attractive and better in every way to access those people.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  The only way that this works, and you put it in the group, and I'm going to use my same defence against this, is someone who's 30 years old and single.

• 13:04Jonny?

  Hit me.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  I should be by all means shitting myself that I don't have a girlfriend, but that's you presuming that I'm looking at girls that are my age.

• 13:12Jonny?

  You, so, so I agree, but it's, it's like, it's like if I said to you, there are. The, there is a range of cars that you can buy.

• 13:21Chris Williamson?

  Um hum.

• 13:21Jonny?

  So let's say cars that were made in a ten year period.

• 13:23Chris Williamson?

  Um hum.

• 13:24Jonny?

  And you can buy from them whenever you want, but everyone else is also trying to buy from that pool of cars. And some of them may come back in the market, some of them may be kept in a garage. And yeah, you can wait until the ones that are ten years younger are coming up to thirty if you want to. Or you can secure a position. But you sit outside of this entire equation for a whole host of reasons that we're not getting into in the podcast. But for the average person who doesn't have an Instagram funnel.

• 13:55Chris Williamson?

  Instagram funnel.

• 13:57Jonny?

  These things need, and if you want to know what the Instagram funnel is.

• 14:03Jonny?

  That, if you want to know what that is, send us a message.

• 14:05Chris Williamson?

  Um, so I think, I think another, I think another part to, before you move on from that.

• 14:10Jonny?

  Okay. I thought, I thought, I thought we covered this.

• 14:13Chris Williamson?

  You, you've opened up a new, a new doorway, I enjoy.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  So the age difference.

• 14:18Chris Williamson?

  So age differential is a big deal because.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  We're gonna have to get that picture up. Um, I'm gonna send it to video guiding to put this up. No, so it's a graph.

• 14:25Jonny?

  You don't want to put porn on.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Always. It's, so it's a, a data plot of the average preference of ages that men prefer, that, that people prefer in the opposite sex, um, as defined by match.com.

• 14:37Jonny?

  Um hum.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  And it's depressing because for women, the age that they prefer in men is typically a year or two older than them, maybe up to five.

• 14:47Jonny?

  It then, it then flips after a little while though, right?

• 14:49Speaker 01

  At the age of like fifty and sixty, they want someone who's the same age and then slightly younger.

• 14:53Jonny?

  Um hum.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  For men, the age that they prefer in women, regardless of their age, is always.

• 14:59Jonny?

  Twenty one.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Twenty one. And when, when, I think when you're forty, you're into like the slightly older woman at twenty four, and then it goes back to twenty one.

• 15:05Chris Williamson?

  It goes back?

• 15:06Jonny?

  It's like, it's like you relax at fifty, back to wanting a twenty one year old. Enough, enough's enough. I need to start liking up. Actually, fuck this.

• 15:12Chris Williamson?

  Oh, yeah, no, no, no.

• 15:14Jonny?

  Tried a twenty four year old, I'm going for a twenty one year old.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  But I mean, there is, there's probably a, there's a biological explanation for that.

• 15:19Chris Williamson?

  So I'm gonna, I'm also gonna throw a spanner in the works with that. If I look at a twenty one year old girl now, I think to myself, emotionally unstable.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  I I think, oh, she'll be boring to hang around with her and like, doesn't, just because.

• 15:31Chris Williamson?

  Sorry, all twenty one year old girls who are out there, you are lovely, but you're going to be more lovely in about three years' time.

• 15:37Jonny?

  Boring and emotionally unstable.

• 15:39Chris Williamson?

  You're just going to be less emotionally unstable and less boring.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  I think when I was twenty one, I didn't find twenty one year old girls boring, but I think as you have less and less in common as you get older.

• 15:47Jonny?

  That's because you're looking at seventy six year old girls.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Half your age plus seven.

• 15:56Jonny?

  That's the formula.

• 15:56Chris Williamson?

  That's the rule, isn't it?

• 15:57Jonny?

  Gobi formula.

• 15:58Chris Williamson?

  Um, so, yeah, I think, I I I totally do get that, and I think that.

• 16:03Chris Williamson?

  The elephant in the room when you're talking about guys versus girls is that. Women's biological clocks tick.

• 16:10Jonny?

  Yep.

• 16:10Chris Williamson?

  A lot more harshly than men's do.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  So the men are seeking fertility ultimately, whereas for women, they're seeking.

• 16:17Jonny?

  Isn't it like eighteen? The, like, the peak, theoretical peak of fertility in.

• 16:22Chris Williamson?

  Is that correct?

• 16:22Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 16:24Chris Williamson?

  Which have your best chance of being pregnant at eighteen and it gets more difficult thereafter.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  I think so, yeah.

• 16:29Jonny?

  Wow, which means that, if, assuming that's true, men are just gonna find eighteen year old, which is, I suppose twenty one's close enough, isn't it?

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Eighteen looks too much like, too much like a child for me.

• 16:41Jonny?

  Well.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  I think.

• 16:43Jonny?

  I'm saying, I'm not saying like.

• 16:46Jonny?

  I'm saying statistically speaking.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:49Chris Williamson?

  That's how you're programmed, right, to see.

• 16:51Jonny?

  Which I think is, is insidious, to be honest, that that's, we're programmed like that.

• 16:57Chris Williamson?

  Why?

• 16:58Jonny?

  Someone should undo it all.

• 16:59Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, they should change it.

• 17:00Jonny?

  It's just unfair, isn't it?

• 17:03Speaker 01

  There's so much about our biology that's unfair.

• 17:05Chris Williamson?

  But it wasn't, it wasn't designed for this time or place, was it? That's why.

• 17:08Jonny?

  Someone should change it.

• 17:09Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, they should.

• 17:10Jonny?

  I was at the.

• 17:11Chris Williamson?

  I bet Zuckerberg could get in there.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, with that headset thing, we could do something.

• 17:14Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  Couldn't we?

• 17:15Chris Williamson?

  Fine, moving on.

• 17:17Jonny?

  So, business versus a job is like relationship versus being single, so, or an asset versus an expense. So people think that being in a relationship is.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Job versus business?

• 17:31Chris Williamson?

  You must have been looking at my notes.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  No. That's crazy. Anyway.

• 17:34Chris Williamson?

  Okay, um, we all watch far too much of the same stuff.

• 17:38Jonny?

  Yeah, too much Big Brother and Love Island and we're always watching it. Um, so.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  All rounded mind with a pink blanket and we cuddle that together, ice cream, just.

• 17:48Jonny?

  That's what we've just been doing before.

• 17:49Chris Williamson?

  Face mask.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:50Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Cucumber.

• 17:51Jonny?

  Cucumber.

• 17:52Chris Williamson?

  Um.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  How do you watch it through the cucumber? People cuddle at home.

• 17:56Jonny?

  Little thing. People think that a, that a relationship is a liability. Shall I wait?

• 18:01Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 18:02Chris Williamson?

  We're, we're going to be serious.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  That, that's, that's like when a teacher in a class, all right, well, I'm guessing by your chattering that you've finished the test paper now.

• 18:09Jonny?

  And you don't want to break. The bell is for me, not for you.

• 18:14Chris Williamson?

  Come on.

• 18:15Jonny?

  Um, so.

• 18:18Jonny?

  Job, you get a salary and a pension, but at the end of a week or a month, you have no residual value in that. Which is the same as ser- serially dating people. So you build up a little bit of equity in something and then it disappears, build up a little bit of equity and it disappears. With a business or an asset, as a relationship analogy, everything you do, like every good experience you have, every memory you create is, is accumulating. That you are generating equity. Is that your analogy?

• 18:47Speaker 01

  I, I think so. I wrote this note in August, so I can't even remember my analogy now.

• 18:52Chris Williamson?

  I totally, I totally get, I totally get what you mean, but it was, it's, is it a single use?

• 18:57Speaker 01

  You've explained it much better. You are the accountant, so.

• 18:59Chris Williamson?

  Is it a single use transactional kind of thing?

• 19:01Jonny?

  Exactly.

• 19:02Chris Williamson?

  That's purely for the fleeting sense of enjoyment you get while you're there versus.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  So that's interesting because we, we've talked about this in a, in a private WhatsApp in a circle thread the other day, which was that these, these serial experiences may have value of their own, they may not, but the overarching value could be that they are to give you enough experience to prepare you. For being able to discriminate and pick a better mate long term.

• 19:29Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Or to give you enough experience, enough width of experience to know if you're in a good or a bad position later on.

• 19:36Chris Williamson?

  I think what's, what's interesting about what you were talking about, we'll come back to the point about this game of chicken of trying to find someone before they get taken, so to speak.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 19:45Chris Williamson?

  Um, what's interesting there is the point that I made again in the chat that we were on about where I said, I don't know if I want to be the first round for a twenty two year old, twenty three year old rocket, who is going to be a fantastic wife later in life.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  As in you.

• 20:02Chris Williamson?

  But needs to go through a divorce.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  I. You, you don't want to be a learning experience for someone. Yeah.

• 20:08Jonny?

  Yeah, maybe, I think maybe not a divorce.

• 20:10Chris Williamson?

  You understand what I mean though.

• 20:11Jonny?

  Completely. I think people who end up marrying the person, the first person they slept with, for example.

• 20:18Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:19Jonny?

  I think that's a recipe for disaster.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  That's like, that's like putting all your money into a single stock and just.

• 20:24Chris Williamson?

  But if, the, the other thing as well is if you don't know what you're missing. Ignorance, ignorance can.

• 20:30Jonny?

  So that, that would be fine if we didn't live in a very sexualized society where it, there's hints of what you're missing everywhere.

• 20:36Chris Williamson?

  Good point.

• 20:37Jonny?

  So.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  I think it's more than a hint.

• 20:39Chris Williamson?

  Like, have I, so I've got.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Is that everyone's trying to signal there.

• 20:43Jonny?

  Constantly.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:44Chris Williamson?

  I'm gonna steal a little bit of content from Brett Weinstein, Heather Hain and Joe Rogan here, but I don't think either of you two have listened to the podcast. So it's gonna be quite interesting. For the listeners at home, I'm gonna do a little experiment. So.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Oh god.

• 20:57Chris Williamson?

  Can you both imagine for me, please, a woman who is beautiful.

• 21:01Jonny?

  Yep.

• 21:02Chris Williamson?

  But not hot.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. It's like a nineteenth century with a little.

• 21:08Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  With a bow and, okay.

• 21:10Chris Williamson?

  Woman who's beautiful but not hot.

• 21:12Jonny?

  Just by our understandings of those.

• 21:14Chris Williamson?

  However you want to interpret it, beautiful but not hot. Okay. So you got that in your mind?

• 21:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 21:18Jonny?

  No.

• 21:20Chris Williamson?

  I'm honestly struggling, I'll persist.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:22Chris Williamson?

  Okay, so can you now imagine someone who's hot but not beautiful?

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:27Chris Williamson?

  Okay, so the argument that Heather Haying and Brett Weinstein make on Joe Rogan's podcast is that men's

• 21:37Chris Williamson?

  men's values that they're looking for in women have become skewed to work on hotness and not beauty. And beauty is timeless and it's the sort of thing that continues throughout life. So a good example would be someone like Dame Judi Dench or something like that, you know, someone who's got some beauty, some grace about her. But you don't think it's hot. Hot but not beautiful would be tardy girl.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:03Chris Williamson?

  Who you want to have sex with, but you wouldn't take home to the parents. I think that downhill from that or downstream from that, should I say, there's other implications about the way that they hold themselves, the values that they hold, et cetera, et cetera. But even if you just take it on the surface level about the way that they look, there is definitely a distinction to be made between beauty and hotness. And what's happening with a lot of beauty products now, oil of ole and whatever else it is, I don't know, I'm just thinking about what's in my mum's drawer.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  That's a very mum product.

• 22:32Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I know, yeah. What do girls use? Clarens.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  You know what, that also betrays your age because it used to be called oil of yule and then they changed it to ole, just like they changed Jif to Sif.

• 22:43Chris Williamson?

  That's because lots of like Spanish people couldn't pronounce it, wasn't it?

• 22:45Speaker 01

  I think it means like Willie in Swedish or something.

• 22:49Chris Williamson?

  Swedish sales. So, yeah, the beauty and hotness scale is something that's really interesting. And what they're saying is that beauty products are signalling for hotness and not beauty. And this is confusing men's sort of radar and compass in terms of what they're looking for as well, because you really want to be looking for beauty, not hotness. If hotness is going to wane within the next five to 10 years, and this is the same for.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  Is that because it's easier to emulate hotness than it is to emulate beauty?

• 23:19Chris Williamson?

  I think there's more depth to beauty for sure.

• 23:21Jonny?

  Hotness feels like painted on.

• 23:23Chris Williamson?

  It's surface deep, isn't it?

• 23:24Speaker 01

  You can take it on yourself.

• 23:25Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it's a lot more flashy lights, neon sort of stuff and less subtle. And the other thing as well, that's kind of savage.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  It's easy enough to get a tan and botox and like just all the like um stuff that if you looked at someone from a distance. Just for a flash, you'd be like, oh, yeah.

• 23:40Jonny?

  What's so interesting, if you think of like F H M cover model, for example, or like, you know what I mean? Nuts and Zoo and all that. And I realise that doesn't exist anymore, but yeah. So like the the women portrayed on that.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Such a granddad when we're talking about this.

• 23:52Jonny?

  That's the most recent example.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  And Nuts magazine.

• 23:55Jonny?

  But they, what I what I always used to find so interesting is like, someone has arranged that image in a way that they know. Guys look at that and find whatever that arrangement, like whatever they're wearing in that way attractive. But like a lot of it, like if you saw someone walking down the street like that, you'd be like, that's ridiculous. But it's like the combination of certain colours and items of clothing that they know.

• 24:19Chris Williamson?

  The hotness triggering, right?

• 24:20Speaker 01

  I'd love to see machine learning algorithm come to a conclusion.

• 24:24Chris Williamson?

  Did you see?

• 24:25Jonny?

  Just to turn people on and watch it.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  And see what it arrived at.

• 24:27Chris Williamson?

  Did you read the post that I put in the in a circle yesterday about the Snapchat filters and how they affect?

• 24:32Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 24:33Chris Williamson?

  Did you read it?

• 24:33Jonny?

  No.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  I did.

• 24:37Jonny?

  Video man, did you?

• 24:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:38Chris Williamson?

  Enjoyed it?

• 24:38Speaker 01

  I did. Yeah, so I suppose that's as close to machine learning algorithm as we're gonna get, which is the.

• 24:42Jonny?

  Can you explain it to me?

• 24:44Speaker 01

  Snapchat adjusts your facial features based on um these archetypes of attractiveness to like smoothing out the face, make the cheeks slightly redder, make the eyes slightly larger. Um, does it make this forehead a bit larger as well?

• 24:58Jonny?

  Um, right.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Basically make you have more of a neonous, which means like baby like face.

• 25:03Jonny?

  Right.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Um, so like, you know, the the filter that has like the floating hair.

• 25:07Jonny?

  Yeah, I know the one. I see. So that's that's doing certain things that are.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  Makes the lips a bit bigger, a bit pinker.

• 25:12Jonny?

  Right.

• 25:13Chris Williamson?

  There's this Fisherian runaway selection, which is uh sexually attractive characteristics will become more exaggerated over time. So.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, and it gets ridiculous.

• 25:25Chris Williamson?

  It gets absolutely, it becomes caricatured. So you go, okay, men like women with big boobs or uh women like men with broad shoulders. Run that for a million years and you've got these triangular men and these women with like scoliosis.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  Back problems, I say, yeah, yeah.

• 25:40Chris Williamson?

  So, um, yeah, so moving on, what's next in your framework, Christ? Should we go, I wanna do, um, how do you form a good relationship? So we've hopefully managed to get people out of the mire that is seeing someone. They've found someone that they think I could, I could see myself in a relationship with this person.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  Well, so, so I suppose picking that person and knowing whether they are a good choice and I, I owe um.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Johnny, a huge amount for, there was a time a few years ago, a good few years.

• 26:09Chris Williamson?

  I optimized your Tinder.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  You, yeah, you did. Time a good few years ago.

• 26:14Chris Williamson?

  Anyone wants a funnel?

• 26:15Speaker 01

  When um I was, I was quite torn and Johnny just advised me to make a balanced scorecard. Um, of a couple of people that I was considering pursuing for a relationship. And he was like, look, like rank them out, rank them across five attributes, mark it out of ten and. Pick uh and uh give them each a rating on each of those attributes, take the total, see which one has more points.

• 26:47Chris Williamson?

  How do you feel, how do you feel that a lot of people who would think you just know, that you just know camp of, man, you feel it when it's right? Well, the. How do you think they would react to your?

• 26:56Speaker 01

  I think there's probably some overlap between.

• 26:57Chris Williamson?

  Quantifiable metrics of.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  I think back then I'd overridden my, my, my heart centre, my feeling centre so much.

• 27:04Chris Williamson?

  I think that's a good point.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  That I was out of tune with that intuitive sense.

• 27:09Chris Williamson?

  How do you feel, how do you feel now with regards to stuff like that?

• 27:11Speaker 01

  Much better, much better, but that, that's from a lot of spiritual practice that I've done, I think that's connected me now.

• 27:17Chris Williamson?

  That's cool.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Inside, but that's for another, yeah.

• 27:20Chris Williamson?

  Another time. Johnny, how about you? How do you find or choose a person that's right for you in a relationship?

• 27:26Jonny?

  So I didn't, I didn't plot it out like that, but that approach.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Excellent.

• 27:31Chris Williamson?

  Really?

• 27:31Jonny?

  Not excellent.

• 27:32Chris Williamson?

  Excellent.

• 27:33Jonny?

  So with that, like in response to that thing, that, that point of like, oh, you shouldn't approach it like that. Like, that's like saying, like, you know, someone saying, oh, I'm just, I know I'm saving money. Or I know I'm losing weight. Or, you know, I know I'm not breaking the speed limit.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 27:45Jonny?

  Like.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  You might be.

• 27:46Jonny?

  You might be, but you might also not be. And also, like, if you know, if you know that you feel more strongly about that person, but you're struggling to make a decision between one or three relationships or whatever that you want to get into. Like, sometimes, sitting and actually thinking about it can.

• 28:00Chris Williamson?

  Do you not think a lot of, a lot of relationships, a lot of what makes relationships special and attractive are due to the intangibles?

• 28:07Jonny?

  So these are intangibles.

• 28:09Chris Williamson?

  How do you tangibilize them?

• 28:10Jonny?

  So like, well, by using the framework.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  We're all so.

• 28:17Chris Williamson?

  The fact that any of us have had sex.

• 28:19Jonny?

  Is impressive.

• 28:19Chris Williamson?

  A fucking miracle, yeah.

• 28:21Jonny?

  Yeah, we're doing well. So I, the stuff that I think is more important, the stuff I've written down here.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Yet. When, when will it be my turn?

• 28:28Jonny?

  Video can, Dean can put that out. Video, I know you call you video.

• 28:31Chris Williamson?

  Video Dean.

• 28:32Jonny?

  Um.

• 28:33Chris Williamson?

  So. Good if Dean didn't exist and it was just a, a two dimensional image of him, like a gif.

• 28:42Jonny?

  I think we should make a, like, a, a video man Dean represent like a little character.

• 28:48Chris Williamson?

  Once we've hit fifty dollars of ad revenue on YouTube.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Fifty dollars.

• 28:53Chris Williamson?

  I'm gonna spend it, I'm gonna spend it on, I'm gonna spend it on animating Dean.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Fine.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  We haven't even asked Dean's consent about this.

• 29:00Chris Williamson?

  Doesn't matter, it doesn't need to.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Right, let's move on.

• 29:03Jonny?

  Um, so, uh, things that I find are important are, so defining your interests and values, but not in like, oh, I think you should be honest and, you know, because I, I bollocks personally. So things like, what do you like doing on a Friday evening?

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Um. And what's your daily life going to look like in that relationship?

• 29:21Jonny?

  How do you feel about certain personality traits? How, like, how do you feel about, like, um, so, something that bothers me is when people back out at last minute, for example. Like having common interests and, uh, common feelings and things like that.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  That's a really good point, actually, because sometimes what you, like, you might have someone who's like, oh, I want a guy with a six pack and they have no interest in training, they're, they're out of shape. And then if they find someone and they actually find that their interests aren't aligned, what they would do on a week to week basis is completely different. Or then they feel like they've had to be brought into the gym and it's a place that they don't like.

• 29:53Jonny?

  But even that, so, so I've, I've actually found being in a relationship with someone who likes the gym, not as good. Personally.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Cause that, cause then you then have to, the gym beforehand, before the relationship was your time.

• 30:07Jonny?

  Yep.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  And suddenly it becomes not your time.

• 30:09Jonny?

  And I like, I think there are definitely benefits to having that, but I like the gym to be, I go, and people criticize me for this, but I go headphones in. Like it's my time to, to just do that.

• 30:19Chris Williamson?

  Typical power lift.

• 30:20Jonny?

  And all, yeah, typical power lift.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Well, I commonly get that. I wanted to speak to Johnny, but I saw him in the gym and I was scared.

• 30:25Jonny?

  Yeah. Got stuff to do.

• 30:28Chris Williamson?

  Rest and bitch fix. Got this rest, I've got this rest period to do.

• 30:31Jonny?

  Show me, show me one person who's doing a heavy deadlift session, who wants to sit and talk between sets.

• 30:38Chris Williamson?

  You.

• 30:39Jonny?

  I don't want, well.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Only if it's through your air pods while they're lifting.

• 30:43Jonny?

  Ideally, and only about something very.

• 30:44Chris Williamson?

  So do you think that having common interests with your partner is important? Because Darren and his wife, as a good example.

• 30:53Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 30:54Chris Williamson?

  Have got, they overlap in some areas, but Colleen does like wreath making.

• 31:00Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 31:01Chris Williamson?

  And stuff, like loads of things that don't overlap.

• 31:04Jonny?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:05Chris Williamson?

  So, and you're saying that having interests that overlap is good, but that going to the gym together is having.

• 31:11Jonny?

  So what else, what I was trying to say, so something I said at the, for um, relationships versus single, which is that um, the pros of being single are only pros if you're in the wrong relationship, apart from obviously sleeping with lots of people. It, but I suppose it still depends on the relationship.

• 31:26Chris Williamson?

  Why did you gesture at me when you did that?

• 31:28Jonny?

  I didn't, I gestured in general. Um.

• 31:30Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 31:31Jonny?

  You know, um, but stuff like.

• 31:34Chris Williamson?

  Not having sex with lots of people.

• 31:36Jonny?

  Oh, so, holiday destinations, interior design, restaurants, like the type of music you might put on in the car. Um, where you might go and get some food on a weekend.

• 31:49Chris Williamson?

  Stuff like that, I think is more important than. To a lot of people, sorry for interrupting, to a lot of people, that would seem like real low level, quite surface stuff, especially because you, at the very beginning of this framework, you said, doesn't need to be about like loyalty and you know, I just. Well, I think loyalty is important, but not as a stat, but I see what you mean. I think that just because I think. The ephemeral nebulous terms of. Yeah, yeah. What do you look for on like, so I got asked this question loads on Love Island, right? And so what do you look for? And what they want is like blonde hair, blue eyes or brunette, petite, sporty, goes to the gym. Hmm. Um, loyal. But actually.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Your answer a bunch of quite existential stuff that they want.

• 32:35Chris Williamson?

  I don't know. I found it really, I found it really difficult because if you don't have, when someone asks you that question, what's your type? Hmm. And if you don't have a single, and like, who's to say, I go for, I, I go for only blondes. Who is enough of a retard to think that that's an appropriate answer?

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Well, one, it's a, it's a very inappropriate answer. Two, it's stupid on, on that account, but also like, it's just, you've suddenly restricted arbitrarily the pool of people that you could potentially.

• 33:07Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 33:07Speaker 01

  Have met and then you might meet someone who doesn't fit into your completely arbitrary defined type in your head. That would have actually been a really good match for you.

• 33:17Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  And.

• 33:18Chris Williamson?

  You're breaking them off.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:21Chris Williamson?

  Going for values is much better. So anyway, moving forward into a relationship, um, how do you decide when you need, when it's, when it's time and how do you ask someone?

• 33:30Speaker 01

  To go from seeing to.

• 33:32Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. So I don't think there's an elegant way to do that. I think it's just.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  Especially our age. Cause like that, that question was acceptable when you're like fourteen.

• 33:41Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  And then now you feel like such.

• 33:43Chris Williamson?

  Do you know what it comes back to? I think obviously throughout all of a relationship, especially towards the end, like towards the end, once you're in a relationship, it's super important. But this is just identifying how important communication is. Hmm. Like transparent communication. Hmm. Jordan Peterson on a recent podcast that I watched talks about him and his wife. And he's adamant, I think they've been together maybe thirty five years. He's known her since she was eight. Like he's literally lived on the same street as each other in, uh, I think it's Alberta where he's from and. He said that she's never lied to him, ever. He believes that Tammy, his wife, has never, ever once lied to him.

• 34:21Jonny?

  You've got to say, as far as he knows, they don't.

• 34:24Chris Williamson?

  We're gonna say that. Jordan, there's gonna be a caveat in here, mate.

• 34:27Jonny?

  Come on, mate, Jordan.

• 34:28Chris Williamson?

  It's only, it's only what you know. Um, but, and he believes that she's never, ever lied to him. And you're like, fuck. That is the basis of a fucking good relationship right there.

• 34:38Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  Depends how much of a pessimist you are. I could be like, my wife is such a good liar that I've never caught her at once.

• 34:44Jonny?

  But, I mean, if that is true, and he chooses to believe in alternate reality, he's happy.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  True.

• 34:49Chris Williamson?

  Okay, so to ask someone, do you just, why don't you just request it on Facebook, not speak to it?

• 34:55Jonny?

  Yeah, just write on the wall, girlfriend, question mark.

• 35:01Jonny?

  You're either gonna get a yes or a no, aren't you? That might be the reason for the no, though, that's the trouble.

• 35:07Jonny?

  I think it's just something that, we went to see Eric Helms in a fitness seminar. And he, in, in passing in the fitness seminar, gave me the best relationship advice I've ever had.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  Very unromantic, but it was really good advice.

• 35:18Jonny?

  Well, just, so I think a lot of people, and I had this thought up until that point, was that like, you will have this relationship where you're like, I am in love with this person. This is, I need to get married to this person. This is the one. And all those sorts of like romantic beliefs that, you know, like Cinderella and all these things that lead us to believe. And he uses this example of he was on an army base where there was over a thousand people. And he knew rationally that there may be fifty people that he could have formed a relationship with. His wife happened to be one of those fifty people. And then that sort of fits, like he finds her attractive, gets on with her, et cetera. And then past that, it just has to be two adults understanding that relationships come with a whole host of shit stuff and problems. And you just have to agree to solve them.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Cause I remember he, he was like, oh, I'm getting married soon. And someone was like, oh, is she the one? He was like, well, I, I, I love her very much, but I, I don't really think there is such a thing as the one. I mean,

• 36:11Jonny?

  She's okay.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  In, in the world right now, there's probably between one and two thousand people that would qualify as the one, depending on your geographical overlap, but, you know, she, she's definitely one of those. One to two thousand people.

• 36:22Chris Williamson?

  So, do you believe, do you?

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, nice one.

• 36:27Chris Williamson?

  Do you agree that the best that you can hope for is someone who's good enough?

• 36:32Jonny?

  So that's a, that's a difficult question.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Good enough is determined by your input as well.

• 36:37Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  Like.

• 36:38Chris Williamson?

  So is the best that you can hope for good enough? Is there any, what is the likelihood that you find the most perfect, perfect person for you on the planet?

• 36:45Speaker 01

  So there's two, there's two numbers, isn't there?

• 36:47Jonny?

  After me, it's gonna make lots of noise, I'm really sorry.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Tricantor.

• 36:49Chris Williamson?

  Listen to the size of that ass. You're less than a hundred, are you less than a hundred, a hundred kilos yet?

• 36:54Jonny?

  Not, not quite.

• 36:55Chris Williamson?

  Oh, sad face.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  So.

• 36:57Jonny?

  Peddling towards it though.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  You could meet someone who, on their side, they are perfect and they're putting in loads of effort. But if you don't meet them at that, you will end up with a subpar relationship.

• 37:07Chris Williamson?

  But that's fine, but.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  So I mean, multiply it between.

• 37:10Chris Williamson?

  That means if they were different, if they were different and were able to um account for whatever failings or shortcomings or forthcoming is that you have. That would be fixed, the same way that two jigsaw pieces put together can make a whole.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  Um, so, so it's more like that, let's say that you, you both are a multiplier and you both got up to ten points. So if you both put in a hundred percent effort and you're both really well compatible, you can get a total of a hundred. If the person is perfect and they put in the effort, so they've, they've used up their five points of innate character and the other five points of their effort, so they're a ten, and you only put in a three, then you're missing out on.

• 37:48Chris Williamson?

  Right, but that person, that still doesn't affect what that person is. My question was, do you think that the best that you can hope for is someone who's good enough?

• 37:54Jonny?

  So I think there has to be a.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  Maybe that answers that question.

• 37:58Jonny?

  Minim, minim, minim, I think what Chris is saying is like, you're saying there is quality and there is a magnifier.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Which is effort and person.

• 38:06Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  And you put them together to get ten.

• 38:08Jonny?

  I mean, you, you put a, I suppose you put a cap on it, so it can only go up to ten. But I think Chris is saying, like, someone could be a seven or a three, someone could be three with lots of effort or seven.

• 38:17Chris Williamson?

  But you could, someone could be a ten and you could think this is a ten. Oh, actually, I've just met someone who's a twelve.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  So this is the, this is why you need to have lots of, or why you were saying you need to have lots of short experiences when you're young, so that you get.

• 38:29Jonny?

  It's also the reason for balanced scorecard. Because, so, so, okay, so here, here's the answer to your question. So, so let's say you appraise people over three things, like their personality, like a certain aspect of their personality, their looks and their job, for example. And you want those three things to be maxed out as high as possible. You're with someone who's eight across all three things, you meet someone who's ten and think that person must be better. More than likely, that person will have at least one downside. But.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  But you don't know.

• 38:59Jonny?

  Principally, they will have a downside, which is that that person is inherently in higher demand from everybody that they meet, which will lead to a a a inherent downside. So the more like socially valuable someone is, the more.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  It's so complex, isn't it? Because also someone might appear like a ten from a distance, and then you get into a relationship with them, you're like, oh, actually.

• 39:18Chris Williamson?

  But that's, you can have the converse as well.

• 39:21Jonny?

  You have.

• 39:21Chris Williamson?

  And another thing to consider.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  Diamonds in the rough.

• 39:23Chris Williamson?

  An another thing to consider as well is that when you've got someone who potentially is heavily sought after.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 39:29Chris Williamson?

  Let's say that it's someone that you'd think would be intimidating or maybe up themselves. And you actually find out that they're very hungry for a real connection because they keep having these.

• 39:42Jonny?

  Lots of shallow.

• 39:43Chris Williamson?

  Yep.

• 39:43Jonny?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 39:44Chris Williamson?

  Think that they have shallow connection and so on and so forth. I I think that there's probably too many variables to even define it, but I I think that the Eric Helms thing is quite nice, that it's, there's probably out there right now, even for the people that are the most in love that they can imagine.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 40:02Chris Williamson?

  If they weren't in love with that person and another person had come along, that person had never existed, they weren't in that situation, another person came, that they could be equally happy with that person. And the fact that you're separated by not only um space geographically, but also time, like.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 40:18Chris Williamson?

  Alain de Botin says, we are often, uh, it is likely that we're not, we're never going to meet the pe- people who are best created to understand us. Maybe we were born too soon or too late, or maybe we're in the wrong part of the world.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 40:32Chris Williamson?

  And you're like, it could be someone in a hundred years' time that would be absolutely perfect.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Might even be in the same city, but like, how likely is it that you're gonna meet every.

• 40:41Chris Williamson?

  And there you go. So why is it, why is it that people continue to get into relationships with people that live on the street? Jordan Peterson's in a relationship with someone that did that.

• 40:49Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 40:49Chris Williamson?

  Is the location a refining characteristic which makes someone more appropriate for a relationship? Or is it just convenience?

• 40:57Speaker 01

  It's both. Like, the the data shows people, uh, well, I suppose it's skewed by that exactly, but people tend to go for someone who is of a similar, from a similar location, uh, religious views, political views, socioeconomic status, income level, like, all of those things seem to match with the, and and they tend.

• 41:15Jonny?

  Is that because your values are derived from those? And it means that you're more likely to have more in common in terms of the way that you view the world.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  I I think that's very likely, isn't it? But also that they are probably the social circles that you are more likely to.

• 41:28Jonny?

  Availability bias here as well.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Cause you're not gonna go and find someone in Bangladesh and marry them unless you happen to be there anyway, in which case like.

• 41:36Jonny?

  Is there a case for you, if you get to thirty years old like me, just spending two years travelling the globe sampling?

• 41:42Speaker 01

  I think a lot, yeah, I think that's probably a really good idea.

• 41:45Jonny?

  Right, fine them off.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  Um, would you be annoyed? You you you know, you were you were saying like, if someone is a very desirable person and you're with them, that immediately brings down, or that immediately throws a spanner in because other people are fawning over them. Would that annoy you if you were with someone who men were constantly trying to pick them up?

• 42:03Jonny?

  So I think it depends on your level of self-confidence, but also, cause that it can be a point of real issue. So I've I've seen some relationships fall apart because a girl was in a photo with a guy on a night out. The guy's very insecure and it it just.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  That's a guy's problem, not the else.

• 42:20Jonny?

  It it completely the guy's problem, but but the guy would, as a result, probably be happy with someone who got less attention. Which is ridiculous.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  But that's who you're talking about. Again, that's compatibility, right?

• 42:30Jonny?

  It is, and it's someone who should be working on themselves before getting into a relationship.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  So you need to know, you need to know yourself and you need to know what level of um notoriety you're prepared to have your.

• 42:39Jonny?

  Of course, yeah.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Your partner at.

• 42:41Jonny?

  The the trouble is with all of this, so if we assume, there's a, let's say in Newcastle, for any one person, there's five hundred people. So that like, and then for each one of those people, there's five hundred people. And we're in a market that is getting smaller and smaller over time, because all of those five hundred people are trying to find one of their five hundred people. If you say, I require eight, eight, eight, and actually, all that's remaining of the five hundred is a hundred and one of them is seven, seven, eight. And you go, well, I'm gonna wait for a nine, nine, eight, and that person never arrives, then you may only be left with six, six, six.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  It sounds an awful lot like. Because of the market closing up as well, yes. Yeah, but then every so often, trades get reopened.

• 43:21Jonny?

  Well, uh, so that's.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  But you have to be ready with with the with the capital available and leverage. But the thing is, what what the best way to do is to put a buy order in.

• 43:30Jonny?

  So that is the best way to do it.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Can you put in a buy order though?

• 43:32Jonny?

  If only you could.

• 43:35Chris Williamson?

  So, moving forward from using market trading to uh work out, we're in, we're in a relationship. You've managed to get yourself into a relationship with someone that you think is not a complete asshole. Um, I think that this particular area, and I am not, unfortunately, we're now almost outside of my domain of competence. I'm aware that that's the second that we step into a relationship outside of my domain. I've been in lots of long-term relationships, just very unsuccessful ones. Um, so I think.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  You might even be the best person to answer that then. Like the, you know, you ask the, the guy who's been divorced fifteen times for marriage advice. And people are, oh, well, that's stupid, but actually he's seen the most mistakes.

• 44:14Jonny?

  That's like saying, would you rather ask a successful or a failed entrepreneur for business advice?

• 44:18Speaker 01

  Cause it's the survivorship bias but versus.

• 44:21Jonny?

  Well, because the, the, the successful entrepreneur has likely still failed. It's just that one has only failed and one has failed.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  So, so what you want is the guy who's been divorced fifteen times.

• 44:30Jonny?

  And now is happily married.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  For the last ten years.

• 44:33Chris Williamson?

  So, um, I think one of the most important periods in a relationship is like the first four to six weeks. And I'm aware that the precursor to this has already been set up by the time that you've spent before, like the seeing them. So this needs to really be from as soon as you start to spend time with someone. And the framework to apply to this is kind of the same as when you're in court. And there's already been a case which has laid out how this should go forward.

• 45:04Jonny?

  Okay.

• 45:05Chris Williamson?

  If you set a precedent for X situation to occur. That is what this other person will expect as you move forward.

• 45:17Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 45:17Chris Williamson?

  And then changing it is going to result in some sort of turmoil.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Um.

• 45:22Chris Williamson?

  So, the way that you should, I think, a good way to approach the beginning of a relationship is to set up the first few weeks as perfectly as possible. To have everything exactly as you would like and to set the bar incredibly high. So, everything's clean, date night's done on time, you greet them as they come in the door. You don't miss out on X, Y and Z. You treat them, hold them to as high standard as you want them to be held to. You set hard lines in the sand, going back to relationships one O one, very, very hard lines in the sand. This is acceptable behaviour, this is unacceptable behaviour. Because as soon as you concede a behaviour which you deem to be unacceptable, you can no longer say it's unacceptable in the future. Oh, well, you you already said it was fine. What do you mean?

• 46:05Chris Williamson?

  I've been going out with John, I've been going for coffee with John for ages. You never had a problem with it before. It's like the first time that something happens which makes you feel upset, tell them. And conversely, the first time that something happens that makes you feel nice, makes you feel good, tell them as well. So another Jordan Peterson one here, the same way as training a dog, like it's exactly what you're doing here. You need to not only punish.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  We're not that much more advanced than dogs, really, so.

• 46:30Chris Williamson?

  You need to, you need to punish stuff that you deem to be wrong. And you need to reward stuff that you deem to be good. And that will guide your partner towards being the right person for you. And I think this is where it, the whole conversation about um being with someone. Finding the right person for you becomes even more twisted, because you can create the person that's perfect for you.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  I've seen that so much where someone is in a relationship with someone and you can clearly see that they're only seeing. A projection of what they want that person to be, and they're not really seeing that person.

• 47:06Chris Williamson?

  Do you not think fighting when someone doesn't meet the criteria?

• 47:10Speaker 01

  The idea of them they have in their head.

• 47:12Chris Williamson?

  I think a good um characteristic to look for in any potential future partner. Is someone who's open to change and also keen on personal development. If you get those two things, it's likely that you're going to be able to grow with that person. That like as you want them to improve, they want you to improve, you can hold them to a higher standard, but they don't take it as. A an insult or a slight against them or some kind of worrisome reason that you're not going to care anymore. And I think setting the tone. Setting the tone in that kind of a manner make forms a really, really good foundation.

• 47:51Chris Williamson?

  It's like if you start off a marathon at running a six minute mile pace or whatever it is. And you continue at that, you're like, okay, well, that's my split. I'm gonna stay at six minutes. If you start it at ten minutes, like, what's the incentive to speed up or how do you speed up?

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Very important about the desire for growth as well, because then if you are with someone who is a waste man or waste woman and you're growing at this pace and they're staying the same, there's gonna be resentment. You might even start to resent that person.

• 48:23Chris Williamson?

  Both ways as well. They'll probably resent you for making progress.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  And they're just being them. So it's not like you can blame them for not wanting to grow because.

• 48:33Chris Williamson?

  Do you think that there's, do you think that there's a typical difference between men and women with regards to how much they're prepared to grow? In your experience and relationships, like you are obviously.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  I've seen it both ways. I've, I've seen where, where the woman is like really getting, getting, getting her stuff together and like really moving forward with her life, but the guy is like a sort of layabout, occasionally violent and so on. But because of that, because she still loves him, she puts up with it. But then you can see them growing further apart, but and then the other obviously things like kids or whatever holds them together. Or even the threat that if you leave, then I'm gonna do.

• 49:11Chris Williamson?

  Man, the, the fact that as a society, we're even to have people fucking cohabit and not tear each other's eyes out on a daily basis is amazing, isn't it? Like it's such a minefield and the fact that we're held in place by social that stigma and a, a little bit of virtue, like it's, it is really, really impressive.

• 49:36Jonny?

  The, the thing that I find amazing is that people see their career as like something that requires a lot of work and a lot of time. But a marriage just happens. You know, oh, well, I've signed that thing and I live with a person now.

• 49:50Speaker 01

  I think I'm looking back at these notes and I think you took my phone one day during. You're like, I need to write some notes here because I've got so many thoughts. Because also you wrote, you put.

• 50:00Jonny?

  Can I see them?

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, because.

• 50:02Jonny?

  Annoyingly, I was looking for them this morning. I was like, where are they?

• 50:04Speaker 01

  So you wrote, if you bought one pair of shoes, you would pick carefully. And that's, I think that's the point that you.

• 50:10Jonny?

  So I remember what that means now.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  While you're looking through that, I've got an idea to.

• 50:14Jonny?

  Firdens were benefits.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  To float with you. Um.

• 50:18Jonny?

  So they cancel that from investment?

• 50:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I'll have to mention them in a sec. Um. So there's a, there's an idea that I, I heard from this guy. I think it's very reductive. I think it's very simplistic, but he claims, and I'm sure there is an equivalent for men. But he claimed that women um can be, fall, fall along. Three different continuums, continuum.

• 50:41Jonny?

  Someone's going to get offended here, aren't they?

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, they, they will, but like, this is, I'm, I'm relaying this guy's idea, like.

• 50:47Jonny?

  If we had something that would insult man just as much, I'd use it.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  I'm sure there, there probably is an equivalent model because he'll have made it as an upsell. So. Three different um spectrum, spectra.

• 50:59Jonny?

  Spectri?

• 51:01Speaker 01

  It's a.

• 51:01Jonny?

  Spectra.

• 51:02Speaker 01

  It's a new.

• 51:02Jonny?

  Go on, go on.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  New to, for the single, singular. So, um, so you have. Their views towards men, relationships and their life. So for men, they are either tester or investor. So if they're a tester, then they have lots of men orbiting them at one time. That they're constantly keeping just kind of at arm's reach and just always testing them. Whereas an investor is a woman that decides on one man and. And puts all her eggs into that basket and dives in. And so they're usually on one side of that spectrum or another. The next one is attitude towards sex, which is either denier or justifier.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  And this is the same way that they would react to, hey, did you eat that chocolate in the fridge? No, no, I didn't. That's a denier. That's like, sex is a naughty subject. And if I'm questioned about it, I'll just deny that it exists and that I have any urges or anything like that. And if they, and they're less likely to cheat on you, but if they do. You are not going to know about it. A justifier is, did you eat that bit of chocolate? Well, yeah, there's just a bit of chocolate. Like, what's the problem? Someone who doesn't see sex as very important is more likely to have sex with you earlier in a relationship, but doesn't consider it to be anything significant or any kind of marker of how much they like you. Um, and they are more likely to cheat on you and you're more likely to know about it.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Then you have, so you have justifier and denier. Then you have attitude towards life, realist and idealist. So realist is, um, career focused, realizes that they're gonna, um, be juggling a lot of stuff and, um, doesn't have a kind of very romanticized view of their life and their career. Idealist is, I want to be the princess of my house and I want to have a three bedroom house with a little car and a dog and a driveway and that. And that's, that's the, the idealist kind of more traditionalistic view of their life. So you have tester investor towards men, realist, uh, uh, justifier, denier towards sex. And then realist, idealist towards life and career.

• 53:14Chris Williamson?

  I've heard you use that before. It's a really cool term.

• 53:16Jonny?

  Not Mark Manson?

• 53:17Speaker 01

  No, similar guy.

• 53:19Jonny?

  I remember, I remember you talking.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  I think I've, I've run it by a few, a few women trying to see whether like, and I think the, the tendency is everyone's like, oh, well, I'm a denier, justifier, whatever.

• 53:29Jonny?

  It's what you do with that information.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  And.

• 53:31Jonny?

  That's the challenge.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Is it accurate or is it just random dichotomies that someone's created to sell?

• 53:36Chris Williamson?

  If it's not pertinent to how someone's going to behave in a relationship. Like, it could just be where their principles lie, but if they love you that much that they can compromise all of those things to be whatever it is that you want.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  Um, but would, do you want someone compromising who they are?

• 53:51Chris Williamson?

  Well, it's a good question.

• 53:52Jonny?

  I think that there are, there has to be compromise.

• 53:57Jonny?

  Even even if it's just to the extent of like, because I said again, a lot of arguments that I've observed happen in in relationships, especially like at uni when everyone's a very sort of close environment, is just ego overriding. And like someone won't, it can so easy to just go, you know what, I'm sorry, my bad. And like, just let go.

• 54:17Chris Williamson?

  Well, it's not, it's not, it's not that easy at all.

• 54:19Jonny?

  Well, easy relative to having a three day argument.

• 54:22Chris Williamson?

  But you think that, why so many people in three day arguments clinging on to the ego?

• 54:27Jonny?

  Was it, yeah, okay, so take, take this as a lesson, just let go of it.

• 54:33Chris Williamson?

  Just say sorry.

• 54:34Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 54:34Chris Williamson?

  I think that's a good thought.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  Like a really silly small thing.

• 54:37Chris Williamson?

  I mean, moving on, moving on to that, like, I think breakups are the most painful because of pride.

• 54:47Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 54:48Chris Williamson?

  I would honestly go as far as to say that more than half of the pain in most relationships, most breakups from relationships are due to the pride.

• 54:58Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 54:59Chris Williamson?

  Being hurt because people, it just triggers so many feelings of worthlessness and self loathing and it's what I knew, I knew I wasn't good for this person all along or all of that sort of stuff. I think that's the reason that it hurts. And that can be shown, there's been a couple of times where I've been sort of with a girl or whatever, and then we've split up. I've maybe not by my choosing, or maybe we've kind of drifted apart and then uh again, fucking no man's land of seeing someone, you don't really know what's going on.

• 55:31Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 55:33Chris Williamson?

  And you may have a little bit of resentment towards them. But then if they come back and you get to sleep with them one more time, gone, neutralized, absolutely just immediately gone because you're like.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  The pain from the breakup?

• 55:45Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, because you're like, had her all along, don't need to worry.

• 55:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 55:51Chris Williamson?

  It's happened at least three times to me. Where I've been like, that breakup stung a little bit more than I thought it would. I've got some residual resentment, a little bit of bitterness, a little bit of this, a little bit of that, get to sleep with them again, like, what's I worrying about?

• 56:08Jonny?

  Because I suppose it damages your. Ego, like, yeah, like, am I desirable, am I not desirable, they're saying I'm not. Like, someone getting rid of something.

• 56:17Chris Williamson?

  What do you think?

• 56:18Speaker 01

  It's like, like, everyone always says, like, they, they want to be able to say, oh, it was mutual. If they had a breakup.

• 56:23Chris Williamson?

  There was one person who pushes it more than the other. Uh, so what do you think about this statement? The power in a relationship lies with the person who cares the least.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  It's, it's probably true, but I think a successful relationship shouldn't have to rely on power struggles and um, and games of who cares and who doesn't care. Um, if, if, if it's a case of both people putting, like, the person who suffers the most is definitely the one who cares the most.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  But.

• 56:56Chris Williamson?

  Have you, can you see any of that, the power in a relationship lies with the person who cares least in, in previous relationships?

• 57:01Speaker 01

  It's the same, like, in, in, in any negotiation, you will have someone who cares the least and is most able to walk away. And they are going to be the one that has the bargaining power. But.

• 57:12Jonny?

  I, I, so I, I, I've definitely experienced that. I think it, when it happens, it's when there isn't a shared vision for where it's going. I think like if both, so back to the Eric Holmes advice of like, it's just problem solving. Like, it's just professional problem solving and, and issue, like, there, there's just, you're two people who live together and share a lot of your life together. Shit's gonna happen that's like as minor as, I was watching that, what are you doing to like, why did you make me feel this way? I read, you know, all these sorts of things and it's managing someone else's feelings and emotions and helping them understand that, how you feel and how, what your emotions are. And if you have a shared, shared view of where things are going. And that that's a, a, a future that you both want to be the case.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  And you won't argue about the small stuff because it's.

• 57:59Jonny?

  Because it's like, well, we're moving in this direction. So I've written in there, um.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 58:04Jonny?

  No, and in a, that a, that a relationship is like a business. And in the same way that like, you suffer and I. Well, I suppose we are in a relationship in a way, um, but I I I won't let him have sex with me ever.

• 58:18Chris Williamson?

  Much to my.

• 58:19Jonny?

  Keeps trying, but the point is, is that like, the little stuff is irrelevant because there's a shared view of where we'd like the business to go.

• 58:26Chris Williamson?

  Communication.

• 58:27Jonny?

  Yeah, and so, but I think if if someone, let's say that Yusuf didn't give a shit and I really cared. Then the arguments are just gonna.

• 58:37Chris Williamson?

  Erupt.

• 58:38Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 58:38Chris Williamson?

  So we've kind of jumped ahead to the um breakup thing, because I think we can probably get away with a full episode on breakups. So I want to shelve that for now. How do you.

• 58:47Jonny?

  As well.

• 58:48Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, how do you um, after the honeymoon period of a relationship drops off. Where do you go from there? Like, have you got a framework for how you keep.

• 58:59Jonny?

  That's a million dollar question, isn't it?

• 59:01Chris Williamson?

  I think that's. You've got a fairly successful long term relationship.

• 59:04Jonny?

  Yeah. And you use a fairly successful framework for it as well.

• 59:07Chris Williamson?

  So we're asking.

• 59:07Jonny?

  Well.

• 59:08Chris Williamson?

  For the love of God. Got a fucking girlfriend.

• 59:11Jonny?

  I think, um.

• 59:15Jonny?

  It's so the answer is unfortunately, deadlifts of three hundred kilos in over.

• 59:22Chris Williamson?

  Seventy five percent or greater leg to body volume.

• 59:25Jonny?

  That's it.

• 59:27Jonny?

  That is it.

• 59:27Chris Williamson?

  Come on.

• 59:28Jonny?

  So it. Why are your legs so long? I wish I knew. I might just sell the answer. Just quit, quit and I'll tell you. E-book, physical delivery, quid plus poster. I'll just ring him. This is getting upset. Um, so I think.

• 59:46Jonny?

  I personally, I feel the um, and I don't feel like I've created it. I feel like it's just happened. But the relationships that I see that are just in utter turmoil all the time.

• 59:59Chris Williamson?

  Tatters.

• 1:00:00Jonny?

  Pardon?

• 1:00:00Chris Williamson?

  Tatters.

• 1:00:01Jonny?

  Yeah, bits are when like, one of the, one of the relationship, like the the man or the woman. Just wants to stay in all the time, or just wants to go out all the time. Man or the man. Or the man or the man, sorry, sorry, all the women, two people in a relationship.

• 1:00:16Chris Williamson?

  Or the non-binary.

• 1:00:18Jonny?

  Or the, yeah, or them, them and them.

• 1:00:20Chris Williamson?

  The other kin.

• 1:00:22Jonny?

  So I think they, one of them is forcing the other person to live their life with them. And the other person wants to see their friends or wants to do something else without them for a while. And that creates arguments and problems. And I think to me, a successful long term relationship is two people sharing their life in tandem and each of them have stuff that they do, like separate groups of friends.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  And yeah.

• 1:00:47Jonny?

  Yeah, but it's, there's a lot of shared time, but doing something else isn't a deal breaker.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  So I think that that's the whole thing of like, I don't, like, you don't make me whole, I make me whole. And then we come together and.

• 1:01:00Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:01Jonny?

  Will Smith is big on this.

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:01:04Jonny?

  The Will Smith.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  The fresh prince of.

• 1:01:07Jonny?

  Well, the fresh prince of.

• 1:01:09Chris Williamson?

  He's just started up a pretty successful YouTube channel.

• 1:01:11Jonny?

  He is honestly, he has.

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  I bet he's a wise man.

• 1:01:15Chris Williamson?

  Video guy, video guy Dean has.

• 1:01:17Jonny?

  The M D.

• 1:01:17Chris Williamson?

  Has a stiffy over Will Smith's video content.

• 1:01:21Jonny?

  You're okay.

• 1:01:22Chris Williamson?

  So, so Turgid can see his face in the reflection.

• 1:01:25Jonny?

  He has just had to leave, actually.

• 1:01:26Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, let's crank one out over Will Smith's video content.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, double ganga.

• 1:01:31Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:32Chris Williamson?

  Um, so you think that it's a combination of you retaining your own life and your own interests, which gives you that sense of independence and not make you feel too stifled.

• 1:01:41Jonny?

  Such a big forearm.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:42Chris Williamson?

  Look at that.

• 1:01:43Jonny?

  Big vascular forearm.

• 1:01:44Chris Williamson?

  And also having enough time together to maintain that level of contact and feel like you're progressing together.

• 1:01:52Jonny?

  And stuff like, and it sounds stupid, but like really listening to someone when someone's speaking, making eye contact when they walk in the room, like ask, sitting and asking them how their day is without being on Facebook at the same time. Um.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  It's the standard, like, women come, like the stereotype, woman comes in, hi darling, you all right? And it's like guys playing Xbox, doesn't look at her, just like either makes a grunting noise or just.

• 1:02:18Chris Williamson?

  But again, with, again with that, if you set the tone from the very beginning of your relationship, and again, another Jordan Peterson example here, if you want, if you're as a man, you want to be greeted by your wife as you come through the door, tell her. I want you to greet me at the door. I want you to kiss me on the cheek and say, how was your day? And then you can go back to whatever you're doing, but I want that to happen. Like, if that's a non-negotiable for you, then fine. If you're not asking someone to set themselves on fire.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:42Chris Williamson?

  You're asking them to come to the door and say, how was your day? Like, and if, as a girl, if you don't want to have to wait for longer than two hours for a reply on a message, set that as a rule in the sand. Like, frameworks are the way that businesses, the most complex organisations.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  Two hours, bloody hell.

• 1:03:01Chris Williamson?

  That's, that's absolutely inconceivable for you, isn't it?

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  Like, if I manage forty eight hours, I'm like, yes, I'm so responsive.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  So, there'll be people listening who are in a relationship now, have felt like they've made too many concessions from their values. And they're like, is this irrecoverable now? Is there anything?

• 1:03:24Jonny?

  So the answer is always, if you're gonna sell it at seven quid an hour.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  Seven, ten, yeah.

• 1:03:29Jonny?

  Yeah. No, no, obviously not.

• 1:03:30Chris Williamson?

  Don't do that. I think, I think that a good, a good opportunity or a good chance to do that would be to have a reset. So every year for ourselves, me particularly, I know you two aren't quite so big on New Year's resolutions, but I'm massive on them.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:43Chris Williamson?

  Every year, I reset my own personal values. Me controlling me is a lot easier than me controlling me and a relationship. So having a yearly review for myself and not having one for the relationship seems almost backwards.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:03:58Chris Williamson?

  Like, if you're in a relationship where you feel like you have compromised too much and that things are starting to go astray from where you want it, want them to, or you thought they would, or whatever it might be, ask the person, like, let, let's sit down and let's, let's talk about the things, everything. So we say this to the boys, perfect example. Our managers get overworked when they're doing club promo. They've got a university degree to juggle with late nights and some long days that we make them work. And I have increasingly encouraged them to come to me as soon as something gets on their tits. Perfect example, not very long ago, one of the boys had a art dissertation thing in and he just had one week where it got a little bit much for him.

• 1:04:39Chris Williamson?

  And he came to me straight away and he's like, man, like I, I just wanted you to know, I just struggled with my workload last week. And immediately the pressure release valve just went and I was able to shuffle a couple of things around. And that was fine. But if he'd left that and the situation had got worse over the space of eight weeks, he'd leave. Because he'd be like, I can't take this.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  And the workload would suffer as well.

• 1:05:00Chris Williamson?

  Everything would degrade. So I think have a, every six months or every year, like pick a time, but make it Valentine's Day, make it New Year, make it something. Every single year, have a sit down with your partner. Okay. So what do we think about this year? What would you change? Like, and go into it openly. This person isn't saying to you, I don't like who you are. They're saying that we could be better together and I would be happier if you, if you do this. It's not a comment on you as a person. And the fact, if you can do this completely transparently, and as long as you're not saying like, I, I hate the size of your penis, I wish you had smaller nipples.

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  Valid feedback.

• 1:05:36Chris Williamson?

  It's valid feedback, but it may, it may be difficult to swallow. The small penis is probably fine.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  What do you do about your, your, your large fried egg nipples?

• 1:05:44Chris Williamson?

  A new small penis?

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:46Chris Williamson?

  Suffer.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  You inside and make up for it in the rows?

• 1:05:49Chris Williamson?

  I do. Kiss them on the cheeks if they come through the door.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  Fine.

• 1:05:55Chris Williamson?

  I just think, yeah, tiny penis.

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  I just think. That, that's a very good advice though, to, to say, that is a very good advice.

• 1:06:03Chris Williamson?

  Thank you for being advice on that.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  Maybe six monthly reviews and maybe, well, definitely do it across the multiple dimensions of your relationship.

• 1:06:14Chris Williamson?

  There's a guy who speak, who's spoken about this and it was on a podcast.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  Jay White?

• 1:06:18Chris Williamson?

  No, no, no, no, no. There's a guy who's like, every quarter, I ask my wife to.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. There is. Who is it?

• 1:06:26Chris Williamson?

  And it's like, he has to have a total. And he can like be shit.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  It's someone we both follow.

• 1:06:31Chris Williamson?

  Be shit with kids for a bit, but if it was because he was on loads of business trips and you know, he's doing a lot for the family in that way, then it's okay for a bit. As long as he's not shit in two areas, two months and two quarters in a row.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  That's all right.

• 1:06:41Chris Williamson?

  But that's cool.

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  But anyway, I think so.

• 1:06:43Chris Williamson?

  But like.

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  One thing to go back, to go back to what we're talking about generally, I I'm going to guess that there might be some people at home that are thinking. This sounds like a very unromantic way.

• 1:06:52Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  To operate a relationship.

• 1:06:53Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 1:06:54Speaker 01

  But as I've just identified there.

• 1:06:56Chris Williamson?

  But like, are you really a romantic? Like, when was the last time you like wooed your wife with a rose between your teeth and like spun around it? Without, without it being a a goal or outcome based decision behind it.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  That's it. It's just input to output. That's all anything.

• 1:07:10Chris Williamson?

  The criticism of that's unromantic is the people who say that I guarantee are not romantic.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  They're not realists.

• 1:07:15Chris Williamson?

  And they weren't successful relationships.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:07:18Chris Williamson?

  And they have what? They won't have successful relationships, almost, almost certainly for very long.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  The idea is think like an artist, work like an accountant. That's a nice way to put it.

• 1:07:30Chris Williamson?

  Have you just come up with that?

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  No, it was someone saying that the great performers or whatever, think like artists and work like accountants.

• 1:07:36Chris Williamson?

  A good point about romanticism as well, like for a very, very long time in human history. We didn't just have one partner.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:07:44Chris Williamson?

  And we didn't marry for love. We married because the person that lived in the farm next door, lived in the farm next door.

• 1:07:51Speaker 01

  And by it's convenient.

• 1:07:52Chris Williamson?

  Uh, yeah, it was a marriage of convenience. It was a marriage for power. It was a a tool of bureaucracy. It was a tool of uniting or um stopping wars. Uh, United Kingdoms together, stuff like that. There was a.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  It's a Aubrey Marcus territory now, isn't it? Where we start to say like, marriage is only a social thing and we're not.

• 1:08:10Chris Williamson?

  I think, I think, I think romance in its current form as was created in the Renaissance period can be seen as that. The Romeo and Juliet kind of approach to things. I I think it's much more empowering to treat it as a sequence of inputs and outputs. Because that allows the problem to be first identified and then rectified.

• 1:08:33Chris Williamson?

  As opposed to it being, oh, we're just not right for each other. Well, no, hang on a second. What the fuck do you mean we're not right for each other? Like, what is not right? Can it be fixed? Input, process, output.

• 1:08:45Jonny?

  So I fully subscribe to that way of thinking. I just think it's easier for everybody if everybody views it like that. Rather than getting like, cause as soon as someone, as soon as someone gets emotional about.

• 1:08:55Chris Williamson?

  All these emotions in relationships are fucking getting in the way.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  Two, three people on the spectrum.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  Why can't we all just have spreadsheets for everything?

• 1:09:05Jonny?

  We'd be better.

• 1:09:05Chris Williamson?

  The Asperger's is just tangible in the room, isn't it?

• 1:09:08Jonny?

  Yeah, but like having honest, difficult conversations, if everyone's just willing to do that. And laugh and try and come up with solutions to problems. As long as both people are willing to approach it like that, then.

• 1:09:20Chris Williamson?

  Pressure relief.

• 1:09:21Jonny?

  Like, it's, it's like, imagine if, this is what I'm saying, like a relationship's like a business. Imagine if, like, the board of huge companies, just one of them just walked out and went, you know what? This just isn't working. What would happen? Like, the entire world would fail. But, but for some reason.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  So well done, wasn't it?

• 1:09:40Jonny?

  For some reason, in a marriage, that's what people think is the solution. Even though there is still an outcome focus with two people involved.

• 1:09:48Chris Williamson?

  But like if it, when, when, when the Tesla share price dipped 20% and Elon Musk walked out of the boardroom and said he was gonna go stay with his mother.

• 1:09:54Jonny?

  I bet his, I bet when all that was happening, I imagine he just goes.

• 1:09:59Jonny?

  We need to have a meeting. I, I, I bet it's not far off. Cause like, there's just no room for, especially when like there's kids, kids involved and, and like there's a fallout of the decision. It is totally irresponsible to get emotional and make rash decisions.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  Now, I, I think all of that again, comes down to fear of communicating. And so, and, and they justify it by hiding behind this like, oh, well, marriage isn't supposed to be a planned thing because romanticism and everything. And so, but.

• 1:10:27Chris Williamson?

  Fuck the Renaissance.

• 1:10:28Speaker 01

  But at, at every stage, from just meeting someone to seeing someone, to starting a relationship, to long-term perpetuating a relationship. All of the gaps come from, even though they're different problems at each stage, come from poor communication.

• 1:10:41Jonny?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:10:44Jonny?

  And being afraid of saying something that might offend someone.

• 1:10:48Chris Williamson?

  Or hearing the answer.

• 1:10:49Jonny?

  Or, or yeah, hearing the truth, yeah. Everyone should learn the basics of selling. Judo and selling.

• 1:10:57Chris Williamson?

  Judo.

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  Why Judo?

• 1:10:59Chris Williamson?

  Why Judo?

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  What are you gonna do? You can't flip your wife.

• 1:11:01Jonny?

  So weird, weirdly.

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  You're not even allowed to perform any strikes. It has to only be grappling.

• 1:11:06Jonny?

  Wrestling.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  Well, if you leave a bruise.

• 1:11:09Jonny?

  Like, I don't think I disagree. It was just a weird thing to say.

• 1:11:12Chris Williamson?

  What did you say? Selling?

• 1:11:14Jonny?

  Selling, yeah.

• 1:11:15Chris Williamson?

  What, you're selling?

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  That's it. You have to combine judo with one other thing. So like judo and selling to be.

• 1:11:21Jonny?

  So this was gonna be a life hack, was everyone should learn the basics of marketing and sales because, like, in a relationship, you have to put across your view and, and try and bring someone else's view in line with yours. And both people have to try and do that. And if both people understand how emotion gets in the way and how things can be removed to, to arrive at a decision, which is much easier.

• 1:11:44Chris Williamson?

  I think it's difficult and I, I, this has happened sometimes with me in a relationship when I've been, um, discussing an issue. If you're particularly good at selling or there is.

• 1:11:56Jonny?

  The whole time?

• 1:11:56Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:57Jonny?

  Yeah, well, that's why everyone should learn the basics of selling.

• 1:11:59Chris Williamson?

  But the, the problem with that is that it doesn't, the fact that someone says yes in the moment doesn't actually mean that that's what's right.

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  Because they've been, like, you've sold someone onto a program that wasn't, it wasn't a good fit.

• 1:12:10Jonny?

  Well, in my firm.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  And they're like, they paid the money and they're like, oh.

• 1:12:12Jonny?

  But imagine a world where you're both just closing the shit out of each other the whole time.

• 1:12:15Speaker 01

  Just constantly.

• 1:12:18Chris Williamson?

  Like, fuck, I didn't want this, like, suck it.

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  You've got your upsell, you've got the, yeah.

• 1:12:21Jonny?

  And you're on loads of subscriptions you can sign up to.

• 1:12:24Chris Williamson?

  I think, I just, I, it is, it's true. Like, it's difficult. If you, if you're able to box someone up in a discussion. And your partner isn't a contender for you with regards to how they're able to articulate themselves or hold themselves in a debate, or even just stand their own ground. If they're a little bit more, if they're more conscientious or, um, agree, more agreeable, sorry, yeah, um.

• 1:12:48Jonny?

  Put them on a cold calling course.

• 1:12:52Chris Williamson?

  So just in immunise them against you trying to sell them on stuff.

• 1:12:55Jonny?

  Well, I think more what I was trying to get at was like, you very quickly become immune to to shit difficult conversations.

• 1:13:03Chris Williamson?

  How often should I have sex?

• 1:13:05Jonny?

  As often as you want.

• 1:13:06Chris Williamson?

  How often should you have sex in a relationship, minimum?

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  So I like, I know like everyone's different and you've got to match your libido with your partner, but I I reckon any less than once a week. Then things are starting to.

• 1:13:21Jonny?

  I agree. I think the only exception.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  If you're living together.

• 1:13:25Jonny?

  Is stuff like.

• 1:13:29Jonny?

  I don't know, like you're away or.

• 1:13:31Chris Williamson?

  Well, obviously.

• 1:13:32Jonny?

  Well, yeah, there has to be, we're three.

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  If you've got really long penis that you can just.

• 1:13:38Jonny?

  Yeah. Or when those headsets are up their game.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:43Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:44Chris Williamson?

  So once a week, once a week, you need to have sex with your partner.

• 1:13:46Jonny?

  Hmm. And I think like.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  And I don't think there's a problem with shedding in as well. That's another thing. There's a taboo.

• 1:13:50Chris Williamson?

  I want, I want to hear you tell the story about when the reminder came up on your phone.

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  I, I, I don't think I can.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  I've already put my foot in it at the very start of this podcast.

• 1:14:02Jonny?

  Do you not bleep it out?

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  I, I hope.

• 1:14:04Jonny?

  Well, then don't say it.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  I hope he bleeps out the location and the name of the.

• 1:14:07Chris Williamson?

  It's fine.

• 1:14:08Jonny?

  I think, I think it has to be, it has to be a priority, right?

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:12Jonny?

  Because like especially, I, I mean, I don't know, but I imagine as soon as you have kids and as soon as there's like

• 1:14:18Chris Williamson?

  Kids in the way.

• 1:14:19Jonny?

  Loads of shit to do and it's easy to just get like bumped to the bottom of the to do list.

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  However, frequency is one element of it, but I think with these six monthly reviews or quarterly reviews, you need to assess quality as well because there's, there's no point having lots of bad sex with your partner.

• 1:14:33Jonny?

  When no one comes.

• 1:14:34Chris Williamson?

  It's just ineffective training, isn't it?

• 1:14:36Jonny?

  Just no, no one orgasms.

• 1:14:38Chris Williamson?

  Time, time and attention, but.

• 1:14:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:14:40Chris Williamson?

  There's no gains, no one's making any gains, everyone's.

• 1:14:42Jonny?

  Just vagina.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  It's one of those things, yeah, it's uncomfortable to talk about that stuff, especially like out, but, but I mean, it has to be done away from the bedroom.

• 1:14:49Chris Williamson?

  It's only, it's only uncomfortable.

• 1:14:51Jonny?

  Why?

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  Because if, if it's in the moment, people are always.

• 1:14:54Jonny?

  Oh, oh, I see. I, I thought you meant just the room.

• 1:14:58Chris Williamson?

  Discuss the finer points of how shit I am in, in bed during sex.

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Like the, no one's gonna, no one's gonna.

• 1:15:04Jonny?

  Don't put that there. Stop pinching that.

• 1:15:07Chris Williamson?

  Why's your hand?

• 1:15:08Jonny?

  Get off me.

• 1:15:08Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Who are you?

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  And something that top tip for anyone that's wanting to reignite. Something like that in the relationship is to look into Tantra. Because it's a great way to build intimacy, but also connection with, with like physical connection with your partner by breathing together and.

• 1:15:29Jonny?

  So we try and direct energy around your body.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can't do.

• 1:15:33Chris Williamson?

  You do, you do a thing where you didn't move for ages.

• 1:15:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. So there's exercises where you, you sit up with each other, chest to chest, and you just breathe.

• 1:15:41Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  For like ten, fifteen minutes.

• 1:15:43Chris Williamson?

  It was during sex.

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  You can do it during sex as well. So it's like.

• 1:15:46Chris Williamson?

  And you didn't move?

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  A range of exercises. Yeah.

• 1:15:47Jonny?

  Is there, is there like a twelve week program?

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  Uh, there's a couple of, I'll, I'll, I'll give video guide Dean, a couple of videos to put in the links in the show notes.

• 1:15:56Chris Williamson?

  What if, what if you spend so much time inside the other person without moving that you become fused together?

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  That's, that's a major problem.

• 1:16:03Jonny?

  Can that happen? Surely fucking not.

• 1:16:06Speaker 01

  So, um.

• 1:16:06Jonny?

  Like things coagulate, I imagine.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  But, but the, the exercise.

• 1:16:10Chris Williamson?

  How long do you need to be inside of the other person for?

• 1:16:12Speaker 01

  You're, you're getting ahead of yourself. All, all, all of this stuff.

• 1:16:17Chris Williamson?

  Shut up Chris.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  Because if you read, if, if you try and do Tantra by doing that first, you're just going to end up having normal sex. Having.

• 1:16:24Chris Williamson?

  Breathing slowly.

• 1:16:25Speaker 01

  Having a normal sex, yeah.

• 1:16:27Chris Williamson?

  Doing.

• 1:16:27Jonny?

  Did this.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  The purpose of Tantra is to breathe together and circulate your energy between yourselves when, when there is no, when sexual um arousal is low, so that you can then bring that into your normal sex.

• 1:16:39Chris Williamson?

  It's a taper period.

• 1:16:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, so David Dada, Way of the Superior Man, has a book and then he has a series of exercises that you can do guided with your partner. They are audio programs. Obviously your partner has to be a bit open to doing weird stuff, but.

• 1:16:52Chris Williamson?

  It's not that weird.

• 1:16:53Speaker 01

  Isn't it?

• 1:16:53Chris Williamson?

  That's gonna put a duck in their arse, eh? What do you mean?

• 1:16:56Jonny?

  We don't know Chris, because we're getting ahead of ourselves.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  That's.

• 1:16:58Chris Williamson?

  We are getting ahead of ourselves.

• 1:17:01Jonny?

  Duck up arse, lotus heads.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like.

• 1:17:03Jonny?

  Duck in arse.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  Take your partner's hand.

• 1:17:06Jonny?

  And put a duck up their arse.

• 1:17:08Chris Williamson?

  Um, so I think weekly reminder, nail the bird.

• 1:17:12Speaker 01

  Weekly reminder, nail the bird. Review the quality and frequency.

• 1:17:16Jonny?

  Problem with that, needs to be a shared calendar.

• 1:17:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:17:20Chris Williamson?

  I can't.

• 1:17:20Jonny?

  If it's just your reminder.

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  Well, that's another top tip for relationships, to be honest.

• 1:17:23Jonny?

  Shared calendar.

• 1:17:24Chris Williamson?

  Shared calendar. Shared calendar is actually great.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  Today's podcast was scheduled on a shared calendar, except none of us put it in. So then I put it in like today.

• 1:17:34Chris Williamson?

  And all of us were late, just varying degrees. You weren't, you were late.

• 1:17:40Jonny?

  It's more on time than you do.

• 1:17:41Chris Williamson?

  That's true.

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  It's less late.

• 1:17:43Chris Williamson?

  So, any parting thought? I'm just thinking about where we'll go from here. So the next one, we'll probably do breakups and cheating.

• 1:17:50Jonny?

  Oh, it's gonna be thorny.

• 1:17:51Speaker 01

  Juicy.

• 1:17:52Chris Williamson?

  It's gonna be thorny. And then we need to do, um, single life. Lead gen, lead gen, like pure lead gen and pick up.

• 1:18:00Jonny?

  We'll need a whiteboard.

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  We're like, what's single life? Yeah.

• 1:18:04Jonny?

  We'll need a whiteboard and.

• 1:18:05Chris Williamson?

  I've got, I have got.

• 1:18:07Jonny?

  We'll need to get a lot.

• 1:18:07Chris Williamson?

  Well, I've got, I've got the framework, right, of why you need to get off Tinder and get on Instagram.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:12Jonny?

  So that's it.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  I'd love to see if you can make that framework accessible to people with under fifty thousand followers.

• 1:18:17Jonny?

  Yeah, so that's it.

• 1:18:18Chris Williamson?

  Easily.

• 1:18:19Jonny?

  How, how to use Instagram instead of Tinder, even if you haven't been on TV. That's what it should be called.

• 1:18:25Chris Williamson?

  Fine. Please, please.

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  We're, we're gonna have to review some of the lovely questions that you guys have sent as well.

• 1:18:31Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, had so, had so many sent in, but the most requested episode was Relationships one or two, so that's exactly what we've already done. Um, any parting thoughts on relationships as you move forward? I mean, none of us are married, none of us have been married.

• 1:18:44Speaker 01

  It just all unintentionally comes back to communication. Like, that wasn't the goal. That wasn't like the, the secret, um.

• 1:18:49Chris Williamson?

  It's the, it's a common theme throughout everything though, right?

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:52Jonny?

  I think work on making yourself the, the best possible companion is the only thing that's really in your control. Like, obviously, getting into relationships and all that sort of stuff can be, can be influenced, but like, if you, there was some, someone, I read something earlier today.

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  Is that guy again? That asked his wife to review him. I, it's gonna annoy me.

• 1:19:15Jonny?

  It was like, oh, relationships are, end up in, in bits, in tatters, because people are like, you know, it might be nims. But, but anyway, people are just not ready to be in a relationship personally, emotionally, and they then just put all of that stuff on that person. And so if you're like, if you're wondering why you're in a series of failed relationships or your relationship's shit.

• 1:19:36Chris Williamson?

  Look at yourself.

• 1:19:37Jonny?

  Look at yourself first.

• 1:19:38Chris Williamson?

  Well, John Peterson says that, like, if you're attracted, if, um, there's multiple women and all of them keep rejecting you, guess who the problem?

• 1:19:47Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 1:19:48Chris Williamson?

  It's not the women, it's you.

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  It's a big pride, big ball of pride to swallow though, isn't it? It's like a.

• 1:19:54Chris Williamson?

  Well, people don't want, people don't want to concede the fact that there's something up with them.

• 1:19:58Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 1:19:59Chris Williamson?

  Like.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  Duck.

• 1:20:01Chris Williamson?

  A duck, a duck, up, up them, something up them.

• 1:20:04Jonny?

  Not, not.

• 1:20:05Chris Williamson?

  Quite. You didn't mean duck. No. Quite, quite. Duck, right. Uh, any parting thoughts?

• 1:20:10Speaker 01

  I think next time, let's do why relationships fail. Cause there's a, we've covered about 10 models there of failing relationships. We didn't dive into them fully.

• 1:20:19Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  So 10 reasons why relationships fail.

• 1:20:21Chris Williamson?

  Maybe give them parting advice. Parting advice is just communication. Haven't been, uh, nailing the bird on a seven day cycle. That's why they all fail.

• 1:20:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, every single one.

• 1:20:30Chris Williamson?

  Cause he got rid of his smartphone. Oh, god. I'll come back next time as well. Um, communication. And it is, it's just a theme, isn't it? Throughout all of this, you've got two people in a relationship who are invested with each other and, and.

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  And are too afraid to speak to each other. It's, it's an insane thing.

• 1:20:47Chris Williamson?

  Any surprise?

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  Do it, yeah.

• 1:20:50Chris Williamson?

  Thanks. Okay, bye then. Okay, bye then.