Life Fails 101

Welcome to the dark side of Life Hacks. Jonny & Yusef join me today as we begin to document all of the times we've tried to optimise our lives and fallen flat on our faces. Enjoy as we face-palm our way through a full hour of embarrassing stories. - Video editing & production by Dean Hindmarch https://www.deanhindmarch.com/ https://www.instagram.com/deanhindmarch - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/modern-wisdom/id1347973549 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0XrOqvxlqQI6bmdYHuIVnr?si=iUpczE97SJqe1kNdYBipnw Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - I want to hear from you!! Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Email: [email protected]

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Jonny?

  Need a clap, sound clap?

• 0:08Chris Williamson?

  Two handed.

• 0:10Chris Williamson?

  And we're back.

• 0:10Jonny?

  Synced in.

• 0:12Chris Williamson?

  Welcome back. Today, we are going to do life fails. Now, if you are an avid Modern Wisdom listener, you will know that we often do a life hacks series. It's one of our most popular. And today, we are going to give our best stories about when those

• 0:34Chris Williamson?

  those journeys into making our life more optimal go awry. I think is the best way to put it.

• 0:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, death by optimisation.

• 0:43Jonny?

  In your case.

• 0:44Speaker 02

  Instant death. Not, not one of these slow drawn out.

• 0:47Jonny?

  Do not pass go. Do not correct it in the.

• 0:50Chris Williamson?

  Go directly to being beheaded. Um, I think we need to let you open up with your first life fail.

• 0:57Jonny?

  So Yusuf has a list. Chris and I probably have like a couple between us.

• 1:01Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I've got sentiment and you've got more life fails than you do life hacks.

• 1:06Speaker 02

  I think a lot of my fails are stuff that you two remind me of. Oh yeah, what about that?

• 1:11Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  I don't know why they seem to happen.

• 1:14Jonny?

  See the list?

• 1:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15Jonny?

  It's just my, my favourite list.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  Johnny wants to see the list like, so are we doing the underwater Jasmine pool?

• 1:20Chris Williamson?

  So I think, I think that the first one that you should do is Jasmine pool and why you got banned from the pool in town.

• 1:25Speaker 02

  Okay. So early on in my quest for.

• 1:31Chris Williamson?

  Johnny's reading. Johnny's reading the list.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  Because I don't remember them, I remember these things happening.

• 1:37Chris Williamson?

  Stop it.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  I'm sorry.

• 1:38Chris Williamson?

  Stop it.

• 1:39Speaker 02

  I'll keep it together, I'll keep it together.

• 1:43Chris Williamson?

  You're not keeping it together.

• 1:46Jonny?

  He won't keep it together.

• 1:47Chris Williamson?

  What's it say? What does it say?

• 1:53Speaker 02

  What does it says? I think, I think this is. This says big poo in toilet. Try boiling water, release the steam. No stick from meadows. Look, it's, it's, it's going right. Yeah. Come on. Okay. We, we can get to that one for sure. Oh. Cool. I do requests and everything. So in, early on in my quest for optimization, I read a book that described a process that supposedly Albert Einstein used. I think that's one of those most overused things where they just say, oh, this is the thing that Albert Einstein did. And it just instantly gives something credibility. A technique called image streaming. And this is where supposedly you strengthen the connections with the corpus callosum between the right and left brain

• 2:39Speaker 02

  to create more connections and to communicate the left and right side of the brain. And so that involves like a, a series of lying down with a tape recorder and just describing verbally the things that you see. And that brings them into awareness. No, it hasn't even happened yet. This. I've not heard this part before. This, that, that idea started me off and ended, ended up with me being kicked out of Jesmond Pool.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Um, what happened was along with image streaming, I ended up searching more of it. And there was a combined method that someone recommended, which is submersion in water for one hour a day total time. So total cumulative time of an hour a day for three weeks. And the idea is by doing that, you create an adaptation in your body where you increase the surface area of your carotid arteries, the arteries that supply the brain and increase the blood flow to the brain, equating to supposedly like a 10 point increase in IQ. So. I read that and without any further verification, I was like, right, I'm gonna try it.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  Um, so went into the pool in uh in one town and basically had my little digital watch. Sat by the side of the the ladder thing and just pushed myself underwater and timed myself and just built it up.

• 4:05Chris Williamson?

  Did you do thirty seconds on, thirty seconds off?

• 4:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, or like six sixty on, sixty off. Um, or so it would take two hours in the pool. I did this two hours a day in the pool for three weeks. First two days, lifeguard caught wind of this guy doing stuff and he was like, oh, soon kind of kind of do that. I went, oh no, but I I'm I'm trying to increase the surface area of the carotid arteries. He was like, no, no, I just can't do that. I'm like, right, so he kicked me out, wasn't allowed to go back, ended up um going to another pool. Where I was able to continue the journey. There is actually a side story to the first one, which I was. I was basically scared for, I I was the most scared I've ever been in my life.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Um, it's because I got a little permanent marker. I was I was like sixteen at the time, got a permanent marker. And I quite liked the idea of writing Arabic text. I thought it looked quite cool. So I did that in the changing rooms in this pool.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  And then the next day, I turned up and there was police vans outside and they closed the pool. And I was like, oh, God, I jumped to the conclusion of they've seen the Arabic, they think that a terrorist attack is incoming.

• 5:16Chris Williamson?

  What did you write?

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Just like, just something innocuous, but um I was like, they they've seen it, they think that someone's planted a bomb under there. They've closed off the pool, they're gonna see me on the CCTV, like, that's the rest of my life done. And I just, you know, you jump to the worst conclusion or like, right, I'm gonna be arrested as a terrorist and that's.

• 5:35Chris Williamson?

  But you didn't, and then you managed to complete the rest of your breathing and and and did it work?

• 5:40Speaker 02

  No, I.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  I I didn't test it, which was the the first step, but um yeah, there was another guy I know who did something similar where he edged. So he took himself to the point of of just about to ejaculate and then pulled back and did that to himself every day for a month. Didn't have sex with his girlfriend the whole time, which must have been really annoying for her because he thought it would increase his testosterone. So there he is for a month, not I'm sorry, no, I can't have sex with you because I'm.

• 6:11Chris Williamson?

  Doing this thing.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Optimise my testosterone.

• 6:13Chris Williamson?

  And what happened?

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Again, I was like, did you, were you training at the time? Did you measure anything? Do you know what your calories were? No. Right. So you just annoyed your girlfriend.

• 6:22Jonny?

  Did you measure your testosterone? Well, no.

• 6:25Chris Williamson?

  I bet I bet day one of month two was fun though.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 6:28Chris Williamson?

  Shot himself across the room.

• 6:30Jonny?

  It would feel like you're being naughty.

• 6:32Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 6:33Jonny?

  Spent you spent a month training yourself to not do that bit.

• 6:36Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, and then I did it. Right, Johnny, what have you got?

• 6:40Jonny?

  It all just flies in, just some rubbish compared to that. Um, I had a an experience at uni where I was just learning about alcohol metabolism and how to best. Basically, I was on a quest for how can I get as drunk as I want to get without experiencing a hangover and any negative fat loss consequences whatsoever. So ate only like protein fluff all day, which is nice, but like there's not very much sustenance to it. Gets to seven P M. And I've devised this situation where I I have everyone that I live with, so six people all doing this. We played Centurion but with vodka.

• 7:24Jonny?

  And the idea was in about an hour or less, we'd have all the alcohol we were going to have for the rest of the evening. Give it plenty of time to clear, so by the time we woke up, we'd be near sober.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:35Jonny?

  Of six people.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Front load the alcohol.

• 7:36Jonny?

  But to to the extreme, of six people, two people made it out the house. One person was borderline alcohol poisoning and passed out. And me and the person who made it out were end up doing some. Things we regretted.

• 7:51Chris Williamson?

  So what you're saying is don't try.

• 7:53Jonny?

  Don't, just, just drink normally.

• 7:55Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 7:55Jonny?

  Just drink normally. There is no way to optimise it, unfortunately.

• 7:58Chris Williamson?

  Um. So my twenty third birthday, I'd organised to go and buy a car on my birthday, but then went out with my business partner Darren to go and see Skrillex at Digital. Um. And as I did at the time, the exact reason why I'm sober now, I'm an all or nothing kind of guy when it comes to drinking. And ended up, I, I remember downing about half of a litre of Grey Goose in about three minutes from a speed pourer, straight arming it into my mouth. Um. Late running the evening, I dislocated my knee in the mosh pit. Uh. Popped it back in. Darren.

• 8:35Jonny?

  You popped it back in yourself?

• 8:36Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Darren, uh, got me on his back because I could no longer walk, both due to the alcohol and due to the fact I'd popped my knee back in. Darren, piggybacking.

• 8:45Jonny?

  You did hit your knee often, or was that the first time it ever happened?

• 8:47Chris Williamson?

  Ever happened.

• 8:49Jonny?

  I'm speechless by that, Chris. How, how did you, what happened?

• 8:52Chris Williamson?

  Don't know. I was, I was leathered.

• 8:54Jonny?

  You said, oh, pop it back in.

• 8:55Chris Williamson?

  Well, I was leathered.

• 8:56Jonny?

  Pop what in where?

• 8:57Chris Williamson?

  I don't know. I was leathered.

• 8:58Jonny?

  Okay.

• 8:59Chris Williamson?

  Um.

• 8:59Jonny?

  We'll, we'll drop it.

• 9:00Chris Williamson?

  Darren, Darren picked me up, took me back to his house. Outside of Darren's house, it was a single brick wide brick wall. Imagine terraced streets that you see typical Tyneside flats in Newcastle, sat down on the wall and the wall was ready to go, crumbly, concrete between a lot. Cracked through the wall, so an entire small wall of bricks, fifty bricks went over, looked like a car had crashed into this person. But Darren lived in the maisonette upstairs, so I'd broken his next door neighbour's wall. Went upstairs into Darren. So Darren, I, I'd lost my keys. That was it. I'd lost my keys. So I couldn't get into my house. Darren had taken me back to his. I went up the set of stairs, tried to go to the bathroom, was aiming for the toilet, was wheeing into the toilet.

• 9:42Chris Williamson?

  Lost my balance, fell sideways into the bath and then pissed all over myself while I was in the bath. Cracked the bottom of the bath as well, so split his bath in half. And then pissed onto myself and threw the cracked bath into the floorboards underneath. Uh, woke up in the morning and realised that I had to get a bus to Perth in Scotland. To go and collect this new car, which was my twenty third birthday present to myself. Spent the entire day limping around because I was now sober with a stonking hangover and had to get a. What was the car? It was a Renault Megane R twenty six R F one. Black. Black. I remember that car. Yeah, it was nice and fast and lovely. But the story to go and get it, like I picked it up at ten P M at night.

• 10:26Chris Williamson?

  And then drove back, so woke up with a hangover, Darren's house, couldn't get into my house. None of my flatmates were there, piss all over me, his girlfriend's now wife was very angry with me.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  Broken bath.

• 10:37Chris Williamson?

  Broken bath, I'd injured my knee. I had to spend my entire day on buses up to Perth. Finally got there about eight P M at night, had to hand over all of this money to this guy. Drove the car back uh in fifth gear, didn't realise it had six gears, so drove it back in five in fifth all the way home. And then remember looking at my watch as I got in and I thought it's five minutes past midnight, that's my birthday gone.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  Oh, you have such bad luck with birthdays.

• 11:05Chris Williamson?

  Shit, I am shit. Right, Lescan, can we learn about when you joined a cult, please?

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, so.

• 11:13Chris Williamson?

  For the listeners at home, we have been begging him to tell us the story. I think you should do two for our ones. Fine, two to one, work the rest.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  I'll do both of your requests, cult and big poo in toilet. So we, the, the, I think all of these stories. Start from a ca- a position of like being experimental and not having such FOMO of like, but what if there is something to it? What if, what if I do spend three weeks in the pool?

• 11:39Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  Underwater, two hours a day and actually is slightly beneficial. So. The cult was something that was recommended to me, I thought I'm gonna join it. Uh, I probably shouldn't say the name of it because um.

• 11:54Chris Williamson?

  Can you give it an alternative name?

• 11:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, um.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  Grubly bub. So.

• 12:00Jonny?

  Cool.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  The, I, I, I joined the Grubly Bub cult and. It basically involves going to Berwick and standing, standing in a dark room with some old men.

• 12:16Jonny?

  Just, just for my clarity, when did this happen?

• 12:18Speaker 02

  This was last summer.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Not, not the, as in, yeah, so summer, summer twenty seventeen.

• 12:28Jonny?

  There's so much stuff that he just doesn't, we never find out.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  Well, cause it, it was, at the time, it's, it was just another experiment. I was like, okay, like. There's a claim, I'm gonna test the claim, I'm gonna join it. I was like, I, and I don't join like a Louis Theroux skeptic. I, I fully, I'm like, right, I'm fully on board with this potentially working.

• 12:46Jonny?

  Were you on your own?

• 12:47Chris Williamson?

  Innocent until proven guilty, so to speak.

• 12:49Jonny?

  So, did you, were you, did you say to anyone, I'm gonna go join the cult? Or were you like, I'm off to join the cult?

• 12:53Speaker 02

  No, I came back, told my flatmate, I was, I was, I was already been, I was, oh, in the Berwick, I'm joining the cult. He was like, oh, cool, mate. Um, went into his room, like, David is the most unfazed person, he's amazing.

• 13:04Chris Williamson?

  So, went to Berwick, stood in a room with old men.

• 13:06Speaker 02

  Standing in a room with old men, they say the gin, the old men start speaking in tongues and, um. Sort of running around, moving and.

• 13:14Jonny?

  What are they wearing?

• 13:15Speaker 02

  Uh, just normal clothes, it was like old men clothes, like cords and a, a some.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  But you have to take your shoes off when you go in the room. And I'm, I'm standing there and everyone's like, supposedly being, or what looks like being possessed by something. And I'm thinking. Why isn't this working? I, I, I want the, the, the fun.

• 13:37Jonny?

  The tongues.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  The tongues and stuff. So it was like, okay. You know, eventually, and it went on for half an hour and everyone's doing this and I'm standing here, so I'm like, okay, I'm gonna lie on the floor.

• 13:47Jonny?

  Did anyone run over you?

• 13:49Speaker 02

  No. So, that, that was a suspicious thing, cause they're, they're running around the room and. Supposedly totally out of control, out of their bodies, but coordinated enough to not stand on you.

• 14:00Chris Williamson?

  So the spirits that possessed them were at least polite.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  Were polite enough, yeah. And then I went every Saturday morning at eight a m to a community centre to do it.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  Just me and one other guy who was the representative for the North East. And he was very patient with me, like he, I was like, look, it's not working for me. He was like, don't worry, just persevere. So I I did every Saturday morning for ten weeks.

• 14:27Chris Williamson?

  This is why we couldn't get you to do podcasts.

• 14:30Speaker 02

  And eventually I I was like, look, I I really wanna give this an honest shot because there's no point in just saying, oh, tried it, didn't work. But, no.

• 14:40Chris Williamson?

  Fucking hell.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  It's quite a disappointing story, really.

• 14:43Chris Williamson?

  I want, I want the poo one, and then I want the uh nocturnal emission.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 14:50Chris Williamson?

  That's one of my favorites.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  In the past on the podcast.

• 14:54Jonny?

  Have you heard the story about flying at the Isle of Man, holding hands with a German lady?

• 14:57Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 14:59Speaker 02

  Okay. So funny. Right, so.

• 15:02Jonny?

  Can I just, before you move on, what was, what was supposed to happen with the cult?

• 15:06Speaker 02

  What, supposed to also do like, I don't know whether it's maybe suggestibility, so like. They, because they were really into it, like, and speaking.

• 15:15Chris Williamson?

  I don't think that you're particularly suggestible or.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  It's a shape that I want it to be. That's the annoying thing.

• 15:20Chris Williamson?

  But they, they don't want to be suggestible, that's, that's how it works.

• 15:24Jonny?

  They presumably don't go and think, oh, I can't wait to get possessed. Like, what are they trying to do?

• 15:28Speaker 02

  Well, they, I don't call it possessed, but they, like, yeah, so.

• 15:31Chris Williamson?

  The spirit moves through them or something like that.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  But I I did feel, I felt like the silly one.

• 15:36Chris Williamson?

  Which is, which is incredibly bizarre that you felt like the silly one.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Lying on the floor.

• 15:41Jonny?

  I just love, I love the commitment. Ten weeks to Berwick Community Centre.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  To, yeah, the, the, the local one was just.

• 15:47Chris Williamson?

  Do you remember, oh, right, do you remember when I came around to your house? And you had a huge bowl of spinach in front of you, and you were eating raw spinach from the bowl, and I said, why are you eating that massive bowl of spinach? And you said, I'm not sure. I read something at some point that said eating a bowl of spinach was good for me, but I can't remember what it was and I can't remember the effects it's supposed to elicit.

• 16:07Jonny?

  It'll be a calendar reminder.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  It was a calendar reminder, exactly.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  So you know, sometimes when you, like, you, you find yourself in a situation, you're like, oh, man, past me has scupped. Presently, because I forgot to like take the chicken out the freezer, I forgot to whatever. Whereas in this case, past me did myself a favour but didn't explain why. So all I've had is a calendar invite saying eat two hundred grams of spinach. Like I have read this and it is and I I verify that it is correct. I'm like, okay, well, like I trust past me more than anyone.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  As long as it's like posted.

• 16:49Jonny?

  What I admire so much is that you just go, okay, time to do that then. And then you just do it.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  So what was the other, the big poo in toilet story?

• 17:02Speaker 02

  We were talking on the previous podcast, uh, last week or.

• 17:06Jonny?

  Some week.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Some week. Get a time warp wrong.

• 17:09Jonny?

  Some week, some time.

• 17:11Speaker 02

  About do not live with seven people, lived in a flat with seven people. Um, someone did a big, big poo in the toilet and it blocked it. It got halfway caught up, the U band wouldn't move at all. Um, and then it's a case of like, do people just continue to try and poo on top of it and hope that it pushes it down? Very risky move. So I boiled the kettle fully, poured it on the poo. And all it did was release the steam, it it it almost like it it concentrated the smell and dispersed it throughout the room. So then all I've done is created a net negative situation where the poo doesn't dislodge at all.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  But all it's done is enhanced the potency of the poo.

• 17:57Jonny?

  Atomized the poo.

• 17:58Speaker 02

  Atomized it, like dispersed it throughout the bathroom, seven people, we all can't go to the toilet. My flatmate, um, who is one of the smartest people I've ever met, but. Has a very odd way of things, um.

• 18:15Jonny?

  David.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  Will, yeah, not, not really in a, um. I don't know how to describe it, cause if I try, it's gonna sound like he has Asperger's syndrome. It's not in that same.

• 18:26Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  Vein, but anyway, he walked to the nearest field, which is a mile away, to get a stick and walked back. Dislodged the poo with the stick and then didn't know what to do with the poovy stick, so he took it back to the field.

• 18:40Chris Williamson?

  So he done four miles of walking.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  Just to, and I I took the mick out of him, cause I was like, why did he have to go? Like, I understand getting the stick from the field, like, just about, but you didn't need to go and put it back in the same field, like, no one's gonna miss it.

• 18:54Jonny?

  It's part of that, for for me, I don't know why, it feels like it's it's complete, it's back in the field now.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Full circle.

• 19:01Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, but with poo.

• 19:02Jonny?

  But with poo, but the poo doesn't matter in the field necessarily, cause there'll be poo in the field anyway.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  What if someone else goes to do the same thing?

• 19:07Chris Williamson?

  With that same stick, take the end.

• 19:09Jonny?

  Well. He faced that risk to begin with, and he was okay with that risk.

• 19:13Chris Williamson?

  That's true, yeah. What if he already did?

• 19:16Speaker 02

  Oh, it's just, and that's the poo stick.

• 19:18Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, that is the poo stick.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  So, I I don't wanna monopolize the podcast, so I think.

• 19:23Jonny?

  I, no, I think you should.

• 19:25Chris Williamson?

  Can we do, um.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  I've got another cracking one, which I don't know, I don't know if you know.

• 19:30Chris Williamson?

  I want, I want, I want novelty, come on.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  Okay. Johnny and I were at a competition in Leeds and we were, we, so, to start with, actually, this is, this is your life fail. Um, so Johnny's, Johnny just bought an Apple Watch. I turned up at his har- at his parents' house, it's seven AM, saying, hi, is Johnny ready to go? His mum's like, I don't know, I've not seen him yet. And then I just hear like shit. And then Johnny comes running downstairs, looking really groggy and red eyed, just like, oh, what time is it? Seven, oh no, I I set my alarm, but it didn't go off. I was like, what do you mean? He was like, well, what happened is my Apple Watch at four A M.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  Started buzzing and making noise going, oh, you've been sat down too long, time to stand up. You've been sedentary for too long. So, so I I gotta run around the room, try to like get ready and then. Becca was was like, what are you doing? And I was like.

• 20:35Chris Williamson?

  Then you turned, you turned the alarm off, went back to sleep, slept through the alarm.

• 20:38Jonny?

  Cause then you're so pissed off that your Apple Watch, you're like, fuck off, get off my wrist.

• 20:42Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. So you went to the meet, what happened to the meet?

• 20:44Speaker 02

  So we ended up going to the meet a bit late. We ma- made the way in and so on. This is the realisation of what happened. On so, long day, lots of caffeine, like. And if you've heard our opinions on caffeine, I'm a very low caffeine person, so taking. Pill form caffeine is a kind of rocket fuel. Driving back seven or eight P M. Final stretch, like an hour away from home and this, I'm on the motorway and this woman jumps out.

• 21:15Jonny?

  Different to what I thought.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  In front of me in bits, like in tears. So I put the brakes on, roll down the window, like, are you all right? And she's like, me, me, just keep some of the car on, I'm, I'm good, give us a lift. And I'm like, oh. Yeah, get in, so.

• 21:33Jonny?

  This is where you get followed, isn't it?

• 21:35Speaker 02

  This, yeah, man, so.

• 21:36Jonny?

  I have seen this one.

• 21:36Chris Williamson?

  So, so. Seen this one, I saw this one.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  So I've let this woman into the car, she's in, she's absolutely distraught. I'm on, I'm already knackered and I'm thinking like. Is this a safe situation? Is it one of these scams? I thought like when I stopped the car, is it one of those things where like. They distract you and then two guys come into the car and. Jack your car and beat you up. So anyway, had her in the car, she's telling me a story that doesn't quite match up. About her husband kicking her out the car and she wants me to take her to the next town along. I'm like, okay, fine. Like, I'm in this situation now. As we are driving there. There's two women walking along a pavement. She rolls down the window and shouts, yeah, get in to those two. And I'm like, whoa.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, madam.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  I agreed to pick you up. I didn't agree to pick up all your mates. I don't know who these people are. And then. Um, and she's just like, doesn't respond very normally to that. We carry on.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  She's like, oh, I live in that residence. So I start going towards it. Car comes up behind me, like old Volksall Corser flashing the lights, beeping the horn. Four guys in it, proper Rajis, like the, the, like the, the Bert and the, the Diora. Track suit bottoms. The Kappa, Kappa track suit, top and all that, um, flashing the lights and beeping me. So I, so I just pull over and let them go because they're right, right at my back. They then pull round and stop in front of me. So I pull off again. And then they, they pull off once again, right up behind my back, pull round once again, stop in front of me in the road. So I can't get out, I, I can't, um.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  I can't go around them. All the four doors open, the four guys get out, start walking towards the car. So I'm like, oh, what's this? So I pull off again, they get back in the car and drive, and drive after me. At this point, I'm like, right, and, and she, she's just unperturbed by the whole thing.

• 23:37Chris Williamson?

  Your heart rate must have been.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  I, I, yeah, I, I think there was a lot of like decision trees going on, like, um. So, and then she was, oh, left here, left here, right here. And it's into like more and more of a like dead endy bit and the guys are following me. Eventually they just peel off. So I'm like, okay. She then takes me to what she says is her house. She's been talking about, oh, me, me husband, I'm, I'm gonna kill him. I'm actually gonna kill him. I'm, I'm gonna take a knife. And I'm like, listen, please, like for my sake.

• 24:07Chris Williamson?

  I'm an accessory to murder.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  I'm an accessory to murder. And also like, I, I said, listen, right? Go in your house, go straight to bed, do not pass go, do not speak to your husband, just have a sleep.

• 24:20Chris Williamson?

  You'll be okay in the morning.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  Deal with it in the morning. Don't, while your emotions are high, just, um, and she's like, oh, really? Pull me into the house. I'm gonna kill him. I was like, listen, I told, one thing. She was like, can I give you some money? I was like, no. Just don't kill your husband. That's all I'm asking of you. She wants me to pull into her house and I'm thinking, if I pull in with this guy who sounds like an absolute nutter. And she and he's like, who's this young man that's. Pulling into my driveway. Yeah, I was like, I'm gonna get axed. Like, I'm just missed being killed by four. Linnched by four chaps. So I was like, look, we can see your house there. It's twenty metres away. Just, just go. Off your pop. And then what happened? And then I. She got out and it was fine. She got out and it was all fine.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  Amazing. Johnny.

• 25:08Jonny?

  And then he told me about it and I advised him not to speak.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Never do that.

• 25:12Jonny?

  Um, all mine are just when I was, I had too much to drink that I can think of.

• 25:19Jonny?

  There's a time when, um, I.

• 25:26Jonny?

  I'm at a house party, toilet in the house party has been, is being used. Just one beer pong, naturally. Just one beer pong, desperate for, desperate for the toilet. Go upstairs. Later found out someone's getting a blowjob in the toilet, which is extremely annoying. Walked down, well, because, because of what happened next, walked downstairs, walked outside, walked around the side of the house. Started pissing, literally pissed into the wind and the piss went all over me. So soaked. What was so strange about the experience, I really clearly remember this, was starting pissing. Pissed all over my T-shirt and then just thought, well, it's done now. So I should continue pissing.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  It's gone.

• 26:07Jonny?

  And it went like here in my face. And then I went back in again and everyone's like, why so wet? And I just maintained the line of it's raining outside.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  That reminds me of the peep show when, uh, what, what Mark is in the stationery cupboard. And Dobby starts grinding on him and he's like, oh, this is not good. Does she mean to do this? Oh, God, oh, oh, I've, I've come in my pants. I can't believe that's actually happened. And then he walks out and he's wearing grey trousers and he's got a little, a li- little, uh, wet patch on his trousers.

• 26:39Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Then Greg's like, you're right, Mark. Have you, have you pissed yourself? He's like, um, yes, yes. Joke's on him. He thinks I've pissed myself.

• 26:50Jonny?

  Secretly, I come in my purse. Yeah, so I literally pissed into the wind and then pissed all over myself.

• 26:56Chris Williamson?

  Literally, oh man.

• 26:58Jonny?

  And the the following day is the worst hangover I've ever had.

• 27:01Chris Williamson?

  Really?

• 27:01Jonny?

  It's red wine, yeah, two bottles of red wine.

• 27:04Chris Williamson?

  Wow.

• 27:04Jonny?

  And then beer.

• 27:06Chris Williamson?

  My worst ever hangover, I think, was the one after Take Me Out. That was.

• 27:10Jonny?

  I remember.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  That's incredible.

• 27:11Jonny?

  When did you tell us that story?

• 27:12Chris Williamson?

  On the Take Me Out podcast, which may have, may or may not have already existed. If it's not coming yet.

• 27:18Jonny?

  Saga of a story, that.

• 27:20Chris Williamson?

  It's an absolute belter.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Very well.

• 27:22Jonny?

  I can't think of anything to mention.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  So there there's a couple I've mentioned before. So you made your mum cry with nose talk.

• 27:28Jonny?

  But that but that's the story.

• 27:30Chris Williamson?

  Let's do Ben. Let's do what happened with Ben.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  And Ben, yeah.

• 27:32Chris Williamson?

  That's true. So.

• 27:33Jonny?

  Okay.

• 27:34Chris Williamson?

  I can I can actually contribute to this one. So we I went to go and see Johnny compete his first ever powerlifting meet in Ashington.

• 27:42Jonny?

  This wasn't first ever. This was like a year ago.

• 27:44Chris Williamson?

  My first, the first time that I've ever seen you compete at a powerlifting meet, Ashington. And Ashington. And for people who've never been to powerlifting meets before, it's just like a testosterone filled room of chalk and metal and people shouting.

• 28:02Jonny?

  And talking about it.

• 28:02Chris Williamson?

  And old men.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  All in an I T room of a community centre.

• 28:06Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it's it's in and that's what that's what's strangest about it, the fact that you've got this hyper aggressive, super strong kind of culture. And then it's just been deposited into a a school.

• 28:22Jonny?

  The first welfare centre.

• 28:23Chris Williamson?

  A school sports hall and they've had to move the A frame from from primary school to one side so that they can get the lifting.

• 28:30Jonny?

  What's most mental about that is you walk down the corridor to the warm-up room and there's like children's sort of paints all over the walls.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:37Jonny?

  You get into the gym and there's like three or four world champions training that gym and always have trained in that gym. And it's just the most out of place thing. The whole thing's just a bit uneasy though.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Everything about the room, like e- everyone has the same postural deficits, like they're all they're all lordotic, like thumps sticking out. Big quads everywhere. Um.

• 28:56Jonny?

  Lots of beards, lots of piercings.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:59Jonny?

  Um, so, yeah. And then there was Chris.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  I was there and then there was.

• 29:02Jonny?

  My mum.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, and Becca. Oh, Becca, yeah, Becca was there.

• 29:06Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  So, anyway, we're watching, uh, we're watching Johnny.

• 29:08Jonny?

  He's short, getting shorter.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  We're watching Johnny, uh, get ready to lift. And in powerlifting, there is something called nose talk, which is a specific kind of smelling salt. So I think we should give some, give some background on this as well, that smelling salts are one thing and.

• 29:26Jonny?

  That's what the paramedics give to drunk people, right?

• 29:29Speaker 02

  It is, but like smelling salts are a nose talk, what a, you, you're good with these analogies.

• 29:35Jonny?

  It's like a bullet to a nuclear warhead.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like, it's, it's so concentrated, cause it, it's, it's just like a, a block of the pure stuff now.

• 29:46Jonny?

  Well, it, it's actually ammonia.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  It, it isn't, it's ammonia, and if you, if you open it in a room of this size, within a few seconds, everyone will go like, oh.

• 29:55Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Like, it's, it's so strong and they use it.

• 29:58Jonny?

  I was gonna say, what's the reason for it?

• 29:59Speaker 02

  So they, they, they use it to wake people up, but they also use it to test if someone is malingering and claiming that through some, you know, through some kind of lawsuits, that they've lost their sense of smell.

• 30:09Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  People will hold nose, nose talk or not, or like ammonia, not the brand of nose talk, under their nose and say, can you smell this? And the people who are lying will be like, no, I can't smell it, but actually, um, it's not processed as a scent, as a smell. It's processed as pain.

• 30:26Jonny?

  Okay.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Cause it strips you sinuses, so it's.

• 30:30Jonny?

  And they, and you guys sniff it before you lift to kind of get yourself. I don't, uh, I like, I. Have you ever used it before lifting? No, one, one time.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  And it was bad.

• 30:39Jonny?

  It was terrible.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 30:40Jonny?

  People who get really amped up before lifting, it is completely and utterly unnecessary.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  It's a technical sport.

• 30:47Jonny?

  Uh, the strongest people in the world, calm as a Hindu cow, like they just walk on, lift the weight and then walk off again.

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Unless you're Stephen Manuel.

• 30:55Jonny?

  But there are people stronger than him, who are just.

• 30:59Chris Williamson?

  And so like, it just shows it's not required. Like, it's fair enough if you wanna make a fuss, but. Everyone's got their different. You don't need to, of course, yeah. So, yeah, and Ben, who was one of Johnny's fans, was, was sat in the crowd and we were saying, well, look, you should, everyone should have a smell of this. And I got pushed quite hard towards smelling it and I stood my ground because I knew that it would be a bad idea for me. Remembering that Johnny hasn't actually done.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  That's because you've been exposed to too many people in clubs being like, oh, mate, I always sniffed this.

• 31:27Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, sniffed it, sniffed it, yeah. Oh, no, you're good.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  You were like, hang on, I've seen that before.

• 31:32Chris Williamson?

  Um, and Ben got bullied into doing it. Remembering that Johnny hasn't actually lifted yet and Ben's gone all the way to Ashington to be able to watch him lift. Someone, so Yusuf opens this nose talk and Ben, I thought Ben was just gonna give it like a, a distance.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Which is more than enough.

• 31:48Chris Williamson?

  Oh, like, that's what people do before they lift is they go. It's, it's a couple of. And even then they go like. It's a couple of feet below their nose, right? It's not like, it's not like smelling, no one of those Olbass oils sticks. You're actually attached to your nose. And that's how Ben went for it. So Ben went for a two nostril offensive. About half an inch above the opening to it and a big breath, instantly started yelping in pain. His eyes started streaming. Ben looks a little bit sloth-like at the best of times and then looked like, um, Sid from Ice Age in a really sad scene. Like when he'd lost his chestnut. And, um, then was in so much pain, had to go to the toilets to try and wash his eyes so that his eyes would stop streaming.

• 32:32Chris Williamson?

  That didn't work. Missed Johnny's first lift because he sniffed the nose talk and just ruined the rest of his day and he went home early.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember seeing him five hours later and he was still.

• 32:44Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  Red eyes. We went for a meal later on. Johnny turned up and was like, oh, I've just been with Ben. He's in intensive care.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  And I was like, oh.

• 32:54Jonny?

  You were like halfway at the door. You're like, seriously? The best thing about that was as Ben left, he just, so I didn't see this happen, but he just turned to my mum and Beckham and just went, thank you, thank you so much. And no one knew what he was thanking them for. And he doesn't know what he was thanking them for.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Just did.

• 33:11Jonny?

  It's just his instinct.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  Delusional, just.

• 33:13Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Ben, you are a gent. Like, you you you could have taken that so much worse. I know, man. Ben, you're a trooper. Right, Yusuf, what have you got? Okay, so this is one, I think Johnny's heard, you haven't heard this yet. I've just finished an obstetrics and gynecology rotation, so pregnant women and vaginas. And um I went into, I I was, it was five thirty, I was with it, I was in a clinic. And I was like, right, can I, can I go now? Um, she's like, yeah, if you found it useful. And I was like, yeah, yeah, it's been, it's been good. Like, I forgot to do an examination on one of the patients, but she was, oh, I will, I will arrange for you to um, do examination. I'm like, no, no, it's okay. I I will call, I will call. She just calls up the next ward. She's like,

• 33:57Speaker 02

  I have a student here who's uh wanting to do examination. I'm like, oh, it's five thirty, exactly. And she was like, no, no, no, don't worry, don't worry. And so, sent me off to another ward. Someone else met me and was like, oh, you need to get, because you have to get things signed off as part of, you see, observed examinations of certain things. And it was examining a pregnant woman. And so I turned up and I'm like, hi, yeah, I've been sent over, like, do you have any pregnant women that I can? Look at. Look at and examine and to feel the bump and stuff. Um, not just like feel the bump. Yeah. Um, she was like, yeah. You want to do a baby shower? She she was like, yeah, okay, um, there's one here. Went into an isolation room.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  And this doctor came in and was like, hi there, Victoria, how are you doing? Yeah, oh, you've had a lot of syphilis, haven't you? Yeah, yeah. Anyway, we've got this student, she wants to um do, perform an examination for his uh, for for his workbook. And it's like, so I'm washing my hands and I'm like, okay. And then she's revealed the belly and um naked from the waist down. And you have, part of it is you have to, like, when you're measuring the baby, you have to get right into sort of the top of the vagina. And I'm like.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  You don't wear gloves for this one. Um. And then like afterwards, finished the exam, washed my hands vigorously, left the room, just like, oh man.

• 35:18Chris Williamson?

  Set one.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  And then had a chat with this doctor afterwards. I was like, so you said you had a lot of syphilis. She was like, I'm sorry, what? You said when you came in, you were like, hi, you've had a lot of syphilis. She was like, oh sickness. Like, oh.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Don't touch anything like, cause for someone to be described as having a lot of syphilis.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  That's like.

• 35:41Chris Williamson?

  I can't believe that they, that you thought like, yeah, I'm just going in, no gloves, lot of syphilis, here I come.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  Well, I was like, I've committed now, like, and, and putting on gloves for something like that is a bit insulting. So. But anyway, next, next story.

• 35:56Chris Williamson?

  I'll, I'll, I'll jump in. I've got a quick one.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:59Chris Williamson?

  So as it often happens with nightclubs, if we're stood in the door of a, of a venue, a lot of the time, um. Bouncers on the door will confiscate drugs from people who've been going into clubs. So I went to Thailand a couple of years ago. And I'd been working on the night a few weeks before that and got myself out to Thailand. I'd flown via Dubai. Went to Thailand and I'd been fighting and training in Muay Thai camp, which meant I'd been living in shorts for most of the time. And on the Saturday, all of the fighters go out and they have a meal, nice meal. So I had to put my pair of jeans on and a shirt and I'd gone out, gone to. For this meal and then gone to a bar afterwards. I'm going in the bar and I put my money somewhere. I didn't have a wallet on me. So I'm like, going between all of my pockets.

• 36:42Chris Williamson?

  Put my hand into the little pocket that goes in the top of your jeans and pulled out a full gram bag of miscellaneous drugs. Which one of the door staff had given me.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  Miscellaneous.

• 36:53Chris Williamson?

  Well, just un- undiagnosed, un- unknown white powder.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  I'm so glad that you've said the story. I was worried that you wouldn't say.

• 37:02Chris Williamson?

  It's one of my favourites. So I've, I've had this, I'm supposed to have put it in the safe, but I'm running around outside of a nightclub and I've forgotten.

• 37:09Chris Williamson?

  Remembering that I've flown through Dubai, where it's life in prison for having drugs on you. And then arrived in Thailand where the penalty can be death. They still have the death penalty for class A drugs over there. And at which point I went like.

• 37:31Chris Williamson?

  Had a near mental breakdown, um, and then I actually ended up throwing it in a river.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  It's realising the enormity of.

• 37:38Chris Williamson?

  Of what I've done, but it's, it's, it's such an odd sensation that something terrible has happened whilst nothing at all happening.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  It was exactly, well, it was how I felt with the, the police cars and the swimming pool and stuff. It was like, oh, something.

• 37:51Chris Williamson?

  Something awful's occurred, but actually at the same time, nothing's awful, nothing awful's occurred. I'm going to do another one actually while I'm on this topic, because I said this story the other day. This is quite an interesting, um, insight into how much we value other people's opinions of ourselves. So I was in Bali last year. I just need to stop going away in the summer because just mad shit happens. I was in Bali last year. I was driving a fifty pence per day Balinese moped. And I, uh, a truck pulled out on me while I was driving along Balinese road. I had a helmet on, but I was wearing tiny swim shorts and a vest. Slammed my brakes on, um, the back wheel started to skid out, so released the brakes, bike straightened up, but then I was about five yards away from the truck.

• 38:35Chris Williamson?

  So I could have either pulled the brakes again and risked skidding or allowed myself to hit this truck. And I was like, right, lesser of two evils, pull the brakes again, see what happens, sure enough. Bike went out from underneath me, me in my tiny swim shorts was like

• 38:50Chris Williamson?

  along the ground, all on one side. So it was elbow, shoulder, knee, outside of, front of shin, and then all of the top of my foot. So all of the skin was just removed. I think you guys have, you guys saw this, so pretty soon afterwards, yeah. Um, pretty gruesome, like very, very painful injuries afterwards. But at the time, I didn't feel any, the prevailing sensation, the prevailing emotion I had was embarrassment.

• 39:19Chris Williamson?

  So ahead of fear of physical injury, pain, disfigurement, self-preservation, any of those things.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  It's like, oh, so stupid.

• 39:31Chris Williamson?

  The prevailing feeling was, I look like a twat. And I had a couple of guys that I was riding.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  Also that you like, I'm the white guy on the moped and.

• 39:39Chris Williamson?

  A little bit, well, yeah, there's a stereotype of like fucking tourists.

• 39:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:43Chris Williamson?

  And a couple of the guys that I was riding with came back and they came over and they were like, fucking hell, mate, you all right? I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be okay. Like, I've removed most of the skin from one side of, from my arm and leg, from one side of my body and the entire top of my foot has gone. And I'm there saying, yeah, yeah, no, I'm fine. Like, let's just crack on. And they were like, no, we need to go to a pharmacy. And I was like, all right, okay, let's go to a pharmacy then. Sure enough, as the adrenaline begins to wear off a little bit and the pain starts to kick in, and this is probably the most, in terms of total amount of pain, like area under the pain curve for the next four weeks, are the most painful thing that I've ever had to deal with. But as it happened, the first ten to fifteen seconds afterwards, all I really felt was embarrassment.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Can you also just describe the alcohol swaps?

• 40:29Chris Williamson?

  Ah, yeah. So this is, how did I miss this as a life fair? Honestly, it's wood for the trees again, isn't it? Like.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:38Chris Williamson?

  So I was on my way to a beach club and I was with uh two guys, one of whom is an Aussie. So his, both of them worked offshore, so they were like fully medically trained, pulled in to a pharmacy, picked up some alcohol wipes and some dressing, some tea tree oil and some other stuff that would cleanse it and some iodine. And they were like, right, well, we might as well, we're halfway to this beach club and we need to get you cleaned up. So you might as well come with us. We'll do that. Have a couple of beers and we'll turn around. Remember, like, at this point, all of the skin from the front of my shoulder, like my anterior shoulder, all of my elbow and halfway down my forearm, the outside of my knee took a lot of the impact and then

• 41:20Chris Williamson?

  a lighter grazing, but still all of the front of my shin on the outside and then literally the top of my foot is gone. So we pull into this really nice beach club and the guys who are doing like the um uh the valet service outside, just looking us up and down and they're on the left hand side of me, which is the the side that has got, and they just look at me as I go past. It's bright red, like blood red. Anyway. My man, you okay? I'm like, yeah, yeah, don't, don't, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Get into the beach club, go into the bathroom and it's a really nice posh beach club where they've got miniature hand towels. It's just as well because I needed to use those to pick bits of Balinese road out of my flesh. So he was like, right, before we start.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  Hepatitis road, isn't it?

• 42:06Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, well, it was coarse, like gravel and big chunks in the road. So it was like hitting a cheese grape, like hitting a concrete cheese grater. So anyway, I'm starting to wash my wounds with this uh water and it's. I can feel like the severity, what was worse was the severity of my injuries got worse as I went down. So shoulder was worse than elbow was worse than knee was worse than foot and the foot was really bad. So I've got this drinking water and I'm kind of sloshing it on and I can feel that like stinging sensation. Like very, very strongly. It's just exposed flesh, basically. And a little droplet of water just went down and hit the top of my foot. So I was doing that and it just set it on fire. I couldn't believe how painful it was and I was like, fuck's sake.

• 42:51Chris Williamson?

  So I'm like kind of shaking a little bit, but also oddly out of my body at the same time. I think probably a dump of adrenaline on the back end and a few other bits. So I've got these towels and I'm like picking bits of gravel out of the side of my leg. And like trying to dab certain digital, uh trying to dab different bits of my body down just so I can get used to the pressure being on it. And I'm like, right, okay, no worries. Anyway, go back in, sit down with the boys. Now like, look, how are you feeling? I was like, yeah, I'm like, you know, I've got, I've got a bit of water on it. And they're like, look, like we need to, we need to get the wounds cleaned. We need to get you dressed. We need to do all the rest of it. Right, okay, well, like, let me have a beer, I'll have a beer, we'll crack on. So I have a beer and he's like, right, shall we, shall we get started?

• 43:34Chris Williamson?

  I was like, yeah, cool, no worries. So he gets a alcohol swab, a little square alcohol swab that you'd usually use before you get like a hypodermic syringe or whatever that goes in. And I remember you just, the weight, you can imagine the weight of that, it probably weighs like two grams or three grams. And he just like brushed the top of my shoulder with it. So it didn't actually apply any pressure, just allowed the. Weight of the thing to drape itself across my shoulder. And I thought that I understood what the um maximum volume was, that my nerves were able to communicate to my brain. And this just smashed through it and turned it up to like eleven or twelve and I could hear the pain. Like it was like the tinnitus sound and my shoulders went up like I was hearing something loud.

• 44:18Chris Williamson?

  And he just brushed it across the top and I was like, holy fuck, that that is beyond anything I've ever, ever felt. But then after about five seconds, five to ten seconds, the nerves just completely shut off. So you can imagine he draped it across and that happened for the first time, unbelievable pain. But once all of the nerves have fried themselves, he can then actually apply as much pressure as he wants and it doesn't feel like anything anymore. Which is really interesting phenomenon. I don't really understand why or how that works.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Well, there was, there's a, is it Malcolm Gladwell, one, the, the other one, the, there's, there's two authors. I'll get mixed up anyway. One of them was on a burns unit for a while because he got full body burns. And he said that the nurses out of um compassion would try to, when they had to replace people's um dressings once a day. They would undo the bandages slowly.

• 45:11Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  And the patient started to develop um a real anxiety when it came to the bandages being done. Um and it turned out that actually, he suggested, after experiencing both himself fast and slow, he was like, actually, fast is much better.

• 45:26Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Um.

• 45:27Chris Williamson?

  Over.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Because slow is just this ongoing, he was like, it's an unpleasant experience regardless.

• 45:32Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  So he suggested like, let's just switch to.

• 45:36Chris Williamson?

  As quick as possible.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  And he did, and so it was so much better.

• 45:38Chris Williamson?

  So, yeah, done that one, then did elbow as well, dressed it, put this lovely dressing on, put the iodine on, which should have hurt, but again, the nerves are just transmitting nothing. And I'm like sweating, it's hot, really, really hot, I'm sweating. Unbelievable amount of pain. And then um I'm like, look, boys, like, I need another couple of beers. So I'm like having. Have maybe two or three more beers, remembering that I need to drive the bike back, but I this is at the time I was like. Like, just to get through this, I need to get through this, forget about driving back. Anyways, like, look, mate, like, we need to crack on, I need to do this, cause he was worried about me being exposed to the air. Um, so it's like particles in the air and stuff like that. I don't really know how much truth in that.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  Especially in Bali, I suppose.

• 46:18Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, we were right next to the beach and et cetera, et cetera. So anyway, does my knee and that's like, that's another, another level of pain. Remembering I already thought it just got turned up to eleven.

• 46:30Chris Williamson?

  That was another level of pain. And I remember watching the guy that sat across from us. As he helplessly saw one of his friends inflict pain on another one of his friends. And the guy that was doing it to me was going, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And I was like, mate, it's fine. You go, I know, but I'm so sorry. I'm just really sorry. I'm so sorry. And I was like, mate, it's okay. Like, you're doing what you need to do. I was like, right, okay. And then it was gonna get to my foot and my foot was just. A complete, the whole top of it had gone. And I was like, right, fucking hell. Another couple of beers. I'm like heavily beer deep now, but I like, and anyway, I remember. I was like, right, just go for it. So he puts this thing across the top of my foot.

• 47:12Chris Williamson?

  And um I'd just read uh Born to Run. And it's a book about uh African tribes, long distance running and stuff like that. And in that, they talk about when they're suffering with pain when they're running about rather than hiding from the pain, they go into it. And they open the pain up, they go to the exact sort of the epicenter, exactly where it comes from. And they deconstruct it and think about what it actually means and then it dissipates. And I was like, right, well, you know, I've never got a better, better time to try and try this experiment than now. So he did it and sure enough. And pain was unbelievable. I'd nothing I've ever, ever felt before. But very, very quickly, it stopped being pain. Like, I wasn't, I wasn't.

• 47:57Chris Williamson?

  I didn't attach myself to the pain or associate anything with the pain, remembering that this was something that was good for me as well. And after maybe one second of kind of establishing myself with what the feeling was going to be, I started laughing. So this is, and still, I can still say it's the most painful experience, but it wasn't traumatic when it happened. And it was just really, really interesting that that had occurred and he'd done this across the top of my foot. And then sure enough, I knew that in five to 10 seconds, it was all going to be over and I was going to be fine and it would be strapped up and my wound would be cleaner and et cetera, et cetera. Um, but yeah, that was, that was really, really interesting, like that sensation of the pain and being able to go down and think, it's just as well, I feel very thankful that

• 48:42Chris Williamson?

  I've done even a modicum of mindfulness practice over the last, over the 18 months before that also, um, quite consistently. And I've done a lot while I was out there. Um, so without that, I think I'd have attached myself to the pain an awful lot more and have had a narrative around it.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  Then you're a few beers deep and you've got to get the bike back.

• 48:58Chris Williamson?

  I had to drive back, but I mean, that was, that was fine. Like I had no, one thing that would have been residual would have been travel anxiety.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:04Chris Williamson?

  But, um, that was, that was pretty much, that was pretty much all gone by the beards. And then got back and I had to cut my trip back from Bali short. So I'd been planning this trip to Bali for a year, was supposed to go for a month, fell off a bike after a week and came back home after a fortnight.

• 49:17Speaker 02

  I remember, yeah. Life hack fail.

• 49:20Chris Williamson?

  That is a fail, a fail and a half. Have we got a short one to finish on?

• 49:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so there's a few mini ones.

• 49:26Chris Williamson?

  Do a mini one.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Did we do the, the, um, data charge on the?

• 49:31Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  On the plane, right? So on the way to Thailand, um, I fell asleep and I was naughty, you know, and they're like, mate, make sure you turn your phone on airplane mode. I was like, nah, so.

• 49:44Chris Williamson?

  Fuck you, man. Fuck you, man.

• 49:46Speaker 02

  So, so I just, I fell asleep and we were still over the UK, 35 minutes into the flight. And I woke up for a moment, checked my phone, saw that I had a text message. Hi, welcome to Aeromobile. You are now using our services connected with Vodafone. You are being charged seven pounds per megabyte for data and a million pounds for minutes and messages. I'm like. Oh god.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  So I checked my daily data usage on the settings and it said five hundred and twenty six megabytes. And I was like, oh my, right, okay, hang on, quickly, like immediately airplane mode, calculator, multiplied by seven pounds, that's three thousand seven hundred pounds. Like, I'm gonna have to sell the car, sell my kidney, like this, and I was sat there just mincing for the next twenty four hours, it was a twenty two hour flight and obviously like.

• 50:46Chris Williamson?

  And you're just trapped, unable to turn it off, you've got no network access.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  No network access, knowing that I've just got this massive impending bill that's way beyond working the forward, sat there just like, for falling asleep, it wasn't even using it, like, I don't understand, like, but it's, it's, so it's like, you, you just, they've just come into you, into your pocket and they've just gone.

• 51:03Chris Williamson?

  So it's just app refreshing the background.

• 51:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:06Chris Williamson?

  And what, why, because you didn't actually end up.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Unbelievable, so ended up like luckily in Dubai airport, like twelve hours later, managed to get access to wifi, sent a message to Vodafone customer service and all this stuff and like, I'm gonna get absolutely ruined here. Eventually, a few days later, by the time the bill did refresh, it only charged thirty six pounds, by which point I was so relieved that.

• 51:30Chris Williamson?

  Did you contest that?

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  Because also, like, on principle, that what they, what they've done is, they, like, when your phone isn't even in use, you're literally asleep, they just come in and reach and.

• 51:43Chris Williamson?

  I suppose the.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Unbelievable.

• 51:44Chris Williamson?

  The re- the reaction to that as well, you were asked to turn your phone on.

• 51:48Speaker 02

  That's true, so, but, but then say.

• 51:50Chris Williamson?

  I agree.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  Or there will be massive financial consequences.

• 51:53Chris Williamson?

  There's a, there's a potential flight risk.

• 51:56Chris Williamson?

  They'll be fine, so they'll be, whoa.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 51:58Chris Williamson?

  Stay your five pound bill.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  My, my thinking is that, like, if, if modern planes can't handle a bit of EMF from someone's phone and, and like the level of security that they enforce that is like reminding people in one language for multinational flights to turn the phone off.

• 52:14Chris Williamson?

  That's what I think about, about the, um, the liquids thing, like, I, you know, nine eleven was terrible and we don't want it to happen again. But I've accidentally flown with. Hundred and twenty five milliliter tubes of toothpaste in my hand luggage. No one stopped me.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:33Chris Williamson?

  Like, well, I it's just a, it's just an absolute plug, unless someone would like to tell us in the comments below. Why they do that.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  Well, there's a, there's a YouTube video where this guy makes a shotgun from. Things that he's bought in the airport. Have you seen that?

• 52:48Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  Condom, battery, pack of deodorant, bunch of change, um. And a hairdryer. And so he takes the heating unit from the hairdryer, attaches it to a toilet tube. Puts the coins in like a, a, a, a pack at the end of it. Um wraps a condom filled with uh the battery inside the hair, the hairdryer heating unit. Um and the can of deodorant behind is the, is the explosive thing. And basically it just, it melts through it and then just fires the coins. And so this is all, and he was like, I bought all the stuff for twelve dollars in.

• 53:23Chris Williamson?

  And does he show like the destruction?

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's a very dirty gun, like it, it's very unpredictable, but the fact is like you can do.

• 53:32Chris Williamson?

  Some pretty serious damage.

• 53:33Speaker 02

  Um, also, I kept a diary. From e- every day, I wrote a, a daily account of what happened. It wasn't, it wasn't so much like an outpouring of emotion diary, it was just like, this happened on this day, like a journal. For ten years.

• 53:47Chris Williamson?

  Was it ten years?

• 53:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, and um so from, I think from, or like s- eight years, from like the age of. Yeah, the age of eleven to the age of nineteen, um. And then one day I was just adding to it and it was Microsoft Word documents, which is why. Microsoft Word can go and like just, um. And the file corrupted and I was like, oh, well, that's it.

• 54:10Chris Williamson?

  Ten years of my life.

• 54:12Speaker 02

  My diary and just stopped then. And like, well, I'm not gonna continue from now, so.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  No more diary.

• 54:20Jonny?

  Do you ever think that the things that have happened to you are exceptional?

• 54:24Speaker 02

  A lot of it's self inflicted, like I shouldn't have done it on a Microsoft Word document. That was the universe saying, Yusuf mate, don't.

• 54:30Chris Williamson?

  That's one, that's one way to learn.

• 54:32Jonny?

  It's a, it's a drop in the ocean compared to driving to Barrack to join a cult, isn't it? It really is.

• 54:37Chris Williamson?

  Or some forcing, forcing yourself to be submerged underwater in the corner, corner of Jasmine Pool for two hours every day.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  Also, the, the, the sense of like, oh god, when you found the pack of drugs.

• 54:47Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 54:48Speaker 02

  Um, similar thing. I had my laptop in the back of the car. I went, I went for a meal. When I came back, I realised that I'd left both back doors wide, like wide aeroplane wide open with the laptop in the back.

• 55:02Chris Williamson?

  Well, Johnny, you'd, you'd left your, you'd left your keys on the passenger seat of your unlocked car in the supermarket today.

• 55:08Jonny?

  Yeah, it's quite a rough car park. Like, so I was actually thinking about this. I was walking towards the car and there were like, there was a clear, a clear smell of weed coming from one parked car. Two guys just kind of loitering around. And you just think like.

• 55:23Chris Williamson?

  Dodgy here.

• 55:24Jonny?

  So, but then the thought process was, so when I work in a coffee shop, I take my laptop with me to the toilet. And I can't decide whether or not that's a weird thing to do, but it's this thought.

• 55:35Chris Williamson?

  I think other people might look at you and think.

• 55:37Jonny?

  And think, what a weirdo, but like, I, I have the last laugh.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  You cannot trust the public to def, to defend your property. Absolutely not. I've been mugged in broad, in broad daylight on a busy.

• 55:48Chris Williamson?

  You got punched by a Nazi.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  On a busy street, been pushed by a Nazi. Uh, and, and everything that's happened to me, everything criminal that's happened to me has been in broad.

• 55:57Jonny?

  Really?

• 55:57Speaker 02

  Daylight and no one helps. So you're absolutely right.

• 56:00Jonny?

  The question is what?

• 56:01Speaker 02

  Fire, fire.

• 56:01Jonny?

  Percentage of people have that desire to, to say something?

• 56:07Chris Williamson?

  So I think, I think that I have, because I'm naturally, I think I'm naturally quite a nice person. I'm a, you know, a fair person who wouldn't want to steal someone's fucking laptop that they left out. I give an undue level of, um.

• 56:23Chris Williamson?

  Leeway and hope to other members of the general public.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  They wouldn't either, yeah.

• 56:28Chris Williamson?

  But it only takes one time for your car to be stolen. Or my business partner, Dave, got his car stolen. I think I've told you the story. So the the robbers got into his house. His brand new Q seven, sixty, seventy grand Q seven outside. Got into his house and his bedroom was on the first floor. So got up his stairs, came into his bedroom.

• 56:51Speaker 02

  He's in the bedroom.

• 56:52Chris Williamson?

  He's in the bedroom, asleep. He wears earplugs and an eye mask to sleep in. Took the keys from next to his head on his bedside.

• 57:00Speaker 02

  Flagrant, isn't it?

• 57:01Chris Williamson?

  Just took the keys and then instead of going back down, thinking, done that.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 57:06Chris Williamson?

  Went up another flight of stairs into his brother's room and took the laptop I just sold his brother.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  Unbelievable.

• 57:12Chris Williamson?

  From his and his brother was asleep as well, does the same thing. Obviously, they don't know eye mask, they don't know earplugs.

• 57:18Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 57:19Chris Williamson?

  Took that, came back down, bundled his brother's laptop into his other brother's car, drove away. Never got it back.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  That's crazy. David Cameron had his bike stolen outside a Tesco in London. Cause he he locked it around one of those bollards that's that high.

• 57:38Chris Williamson?

  And you just slide it off.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then he was being interviewed after he was like, I don't understand, I was only in there five minutes. And you're like, David.

• 57:44Chris Williamson?

  Welcome to the real world.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, okay, I appreciate you've like taken your bike out onto the street as a P R event, but like.

• 57:52Jonny?

  But it's the thing, isn't it?

• 57:53Chris Williamson?

  Probably thought, oh, that's David.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, something is like, fuck you, Dave.

• 57:56Jonny?

  It's like, I can't, I have no idea of what proportion of people. Cause so sat next to me in the same coffee shop the other day was a guy on his laptop. He was just regularly getting up and going outside for an e-cigarette.

• 58:09Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 58:09Jonny?

  Which is a bit weird in itself, because you know, you go outside for an e-cigarette. But he was just leaving his laptop there.

• 58:15Chris Williamson?

  Is there only one entrance and exit?

• 58:16Jonny?

  There is, but like, what's he going to do? He was like an old, quite an old guy. Like, is he gonna have, is he gonna confront the person? Cause there's gonna be that moment where someone walks out with his laptop and he's gonna go, is that my laptop? And then he's gonna go in and look, realise his laptop's not there and it's too late.

• 58:31Chris Williamson?

  Smash him in his, smash him in the face with the e-cigarette. Poke him in the eye.

• 58:36Speaker 02

  Have I told you about the man that came to the door? Yeah, that's a very vague story, but.

• 58:43Chris Williamson?

  Well, it was this the person who you resuscitated wearing a skirt.

• 58:46Speaker 02

  Oh, okay, so that that's another one as well, but um so I I was was in the flat, some knock at the door. This guy like in a shirt and trousers and his hair kind of slicked back, looked a bit slimy. Was like, hi there, um, I'm just here for the shoes. I'm like, sorry.

• 59:04Chris Williamson?

  I do know this.

• 59:05Speaker 02

  Ah, yeah. He was like, it's it's salmon. And I was like, Sam. Then the rest of the flat start coming out, peering out at this guy and he's like, oh, you're right, mate. And he walks into the other room and like. How do you know Sam? He's like, oh, I don't, I'm just here for his shoes. And we're like, what?

• 59:23Chris Williamson?

  Is this the same guy who went the field for the stick?

• 59:25Speaker 02

  No, no, someone different.

• 59:27Chris Williamson?

  Someone different.

• 59:27Speaker 02

  Um, and so this guy was like, we were like, look, can you tell it? And he was like, if you must know. I've got a foot fetish and um I'd appreciate if you wouldn't judge me, but. I I've just come for some shoes and Sam like brought out his shoes like, all right, man, enjoy, see you later, like totally fine about it. And we were like, what's what's going on? And Sam was like, oh, um, he he followed me the other day. And he was like, oh, like, cause he had these like really ruined shoes. He was like, I really like the shoes. Can I can I have them? And I was like, yeah, sure, mate, but I haven't I need to get a new pair on Friday, so just come back then. I live up here. Um, and so the guy, as instructed, came out.

• 1:00:06Chris Williamson?

  Came back. That is really bizarre. Can we finish on you resuscitating someone?

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure. We were like, Sam, are you not, um. Are you okay with what that man's gonna be doing with your shoes? And he was like, yeah, fine, you know.

• 1:00:17Chris Williamson?

  What's the what's the thought experiment that you do about someone taking sexual pleasure from giving you a massage?

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. So this is the, so there's a book called The Ethics of Touch, and it's recommended to anyone who is a. Clinician, I suppose, that involves touching someone, but it's, yeah, there's things like, um. If somebody was massaging you and they were getting so much, a lot of enjoyment from it themselves.

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  Is that. That doesn't change your experience of the massage, but is it something that you are uncomfortable with? Assuming, let's say you're a straight man, it's another man and the man is getting enjoyment from it.

• 1:00:55Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 1:00:55Jonny?

  Is he getting audible or visual?

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  No, no, he's giving no signals.

• 1:00:59Jonny?

  Oh, it doesn't matter anyway.

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  So, so for you, you're a utilitarian, doesn't seem.

• 1:01:04Jonny?

  As long as, so when you, I think you asked me this question recently and in my head, I'm like, I imagine that I could tell.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:10Jonny?

  Yeah. And in that case, like, no, that's not okay.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I see.

• 1:01:15Chris Williamson?

  So until it impinges on your experience, you don't mind?

• 1:01:18Jonny?

  Well, yeah, well, because how many, like, we may have all, all the massages you've had may have been with someone absolutely loving every second, but you don't know, you know, worse off.

• 1:01:26Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. What about if you knew in retrospect? What about if someone told you after the event?

• 1:01:33Jonny?

  I s- I think I could suspend the thoughts as long as.

• 1:01:39Chris Williamson?

  You know why that is?

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  However.

• 1:01:40Jonny?

  Why?

• 1:01:40Chris Williamson?

  Mindfulness gap.

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:01:43Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:43Chris Williamson?

  Meditation.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  And why is that different to date rape? Because date rape is a horrific thing and most people would agree that it would, that's very much a violation, but.

• 1:01:56Jonny?

  Because you are, I'm still allowing permission for the massage to happen.

• 1:02:02Chris Williamson?

  You're not allowing permission for him to take sexual pleasure from it, though.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  In fact.

• 1:02:07Jonny?

  Granted.

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  You know what? It's a completely different.

• 1:02:09Jonny?

  Because, but in a date rape, there's no permission at all.

• 1:02:13Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 1:02:13Jonny?

  The whole thing's been stolen.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, true.

• 1:02:16Chris Williamson?

  So what about, what about someone um peep-holing you going to the bathroom through a peephole? And you not knowing about it?

• 1:02:25Jonny?

  Fine.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 1:02:26Jonny?

  What, what's the problem with that? Explain, explain in the simplest way possible why that's a problem.

• 1:02:32Chris Williamson?

  Well, it is an ethical problem, isn't it?

• 1:02:34Speaker 02

  For him. Because you didn't consent to it, but with the massage, you like.

• 1:02:38Chris Williamson?

  But you didn't consent to the thing which is the crux of what we're discussing.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  Okay, so, so, so in the massage case, like, whether the, um, like, you, you wouldn't necessarily want the therapist to be having a bad time as much as you wouldn't want them to be having a good time.

• 1:02:52Chris Williamson?

  They wouldn't want you to hurt them.

• 1:02:54Speaker 02

  To, yeah, to, to, for them to be hating it. So actually, it's irrelevant to you. And if anything, you'd want them to be having at least a nice time.

• 1:03:01Chris Williamson?

  But, yeah, but then you can overshoot.

• 1:03:03Jonny?

  I think there's every chance that that they really enjoy doing it. You have to assume that they're a rational person, that they they do what they can.

• 1:03:12Chris Williamson?

  Are you saying that are you saying that rubbing you is a pleasurable experience?

• 1:03:15Jonny?

  I'm saying that they've taken, they've gone down consciously, trained and pursuing a career path that solely involves that.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  What so so you're saying it doesn't matter whether the enjoyment is like, oh, I'm really enjoying the money I get for this.

• 1:03:27Jonny?

  Um.

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  Or or I'm really enjoying this, whereas Chris, you're less comfortable with them enjoying the activist. But are you okay with them enjoying the the compensation for the activist?

• 1:03:38Chris Williamson?

  I think it's just an interesting, I think it's just an interesting thought experiment. I think that.

• 1:03:42Speaker 02

  Massively.

• 1:03:42Chris Williamson?

  I think that the peopleing someone through a bathroom, them not knowing.

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  There's no exchange of service there, there is there.

• 1:03:49Chris Williamson?

  So there's even less.

• 1:03:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:52Chris Williamson?

  There's even less of a reason for it to be wrong.

• 1:03:54Speaker 02

  I see.

• 1:03:54Jonny?

  What's another, what's an example of something that's more morally on the boundary compromise?

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  Um, I think the peopleing one is probably more morally.

• 1:04:03Jonny?

  But that's not touch.

• 1:04:05Speaker 02

  Oh, I see.

• 1:04:06Chris Williamson?

  But why why is there, why is there a a line between the fact that there's touch and no touch? I would say.

• 1:04:12Jonny?

  There's a book called Ethics of Touch.

• 1:04:14Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  So there was that proposal as well, that you saw of the guy saying like, why is it that certain body parts are um sanctioned and certain ones are not? Um.

• 1:04:24Jonny?

  Yeah, so I do find that, I find that really interesting.

• 1:04:26Speaker 02

  Like you can pay someone to rub your head, not your little head. And that's.

• 1:04:33Chris Williamson?

  Well, you could rub a man's chest, but not a woman's chest.

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:36Jonny?

  It's just these weird kind of boundaries that exist.

• 1:04:39Speaker 02

  Which is almost.

• 1:04:40Chris Williamson?

  It's because the narrative, it's the narrative that we attach to particular areas, isn't it? That's why.

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:04:45Jonny?

  So it's like in some cultures, even seeing parts of a of a body is.

• 1:04:50Speaker 02

  Well, this.

• 1:04:51Jonny?

  Is is not allowed.

• 1:04:52Speaker 02

  Victorians used to cover piano legs with fabric.

• 1:04:55Jonny?

  Really?

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, which is insane. What was the the thing you asked before?

• 1:05:01Jonny?

  People thing.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  The no, the other.

• 1:05:02Jonny?

  Skirt.

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  Skirt, that's it. So.

• 1:05:06Jonny?

  Would would you do a problem with the people thing?

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  I would.

• 1:05:10Chris Williamson?

  I would as well.

• 1:05:11Speaker 02

  But like.

• 1:05:12Chris Williamson?

  You have no idea it's happening.

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  I wouldn't have a major problem with it, but it's it's different because it's it's a violation that wasn't uh like, okay, so if you if you pay someone to rub you and they enjoy it.

• 1:05:22Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  That's partly as as part of the contract, although there is a there is a reasonable expectation of how much enjoyment they will get from it.

• 1:05:30Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  Or the tolerance of how much unenjoyment or enjoyment. And you're like, well, it can exist within that range.

• 1:05:35Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:36Speaker 02

  But if it overshoots and it way more than you bargain for.

• 1:05:39Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  Then that's why you feel a bit like, oh, hang on, that's a bit odd, because I was only expecting.

• 1:05:42Chris Williamson?

  Having completely stepped out of the paradigm that is the transactional relationship that you'd already entered into. Okay, but going to the toilet, you don't expect anyone's watching you. Yeah, at all. That's outside of the paradigm. What about like guys purving it women as they walk down the street? Because that's like a step away from.

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  So that's similar to like, I give you a ten pound note, not realising you really like ten pound notes, like not just like the average, oh, great, ten pound tenant.

• 1:06:07Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  It's like, oh.

• 1:06:08Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 1:06:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that's that I'm fine with that because at least you had a nice time.

• 1:06:14Chris Williamson?

  Got it. I for me, I think as long as I am aware of it, because like as long as he's not gonna like film it, put it on YouTube.

• 1:06:22Speaker 02

  I suppose once you're aware of it, then it's uncomfortable because you don't like.

• 1:06:25Chris Williamson?

  So I know that we're running over, but there's a thought experiment that's just come to mind and I want to give it to you two guys. So um. I recently chatted to a woman who goes on Loose Women quite regularly. Okay. Um, and she reminded me of a uh discussion that had gone on there. And they said, do you think that liking other girls' photos on Instagram is cheating?

• 1:06:52Chris Williamson?

  Okay. And she said, yes. She said, yes, that is a man putting himself out there and uh.

• 1:07:02Chris Williamson?

  Identifying himself and giving a, like highlighting himself to other women. And drawing attention to himself and liking their photos and was like.

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  She's making assumptions about his intention.

• 1:07:16Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, but.

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  What do we think of that?

• 1:07:21Chris Williamson?

  Uh, the analogy that I drew was, would you say that a man looking at other women as they walk past in a nightclub? Is cheating.

• 1:07:32Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:07:32Chris Williamson?

  And there was a, there's a line somewhere along there where it becomes cheating. Okay, so is it when they say something to them?

• 1:07:42Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:07:42Chris Williamson?

  Because what it actually is, if you want to draw the line somewhere in sort of flirtation or talking, is not actually in the act. Because the act is just a manifestation of the intention.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:07:56Chris Williamson?

  The intention, if the intention was, I want to pull that woman.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  Hmm, even if you come up and you, and you just, you just poo on a.

• 1:08:02Chris Williamson?

  Exactly, so this is, this is the thing, right? So if you just look at a woman across the other side of the room. And your intention is that she'll look back at you and you're dreaming that that woman's gonna come over and kiss you and then you're gonna take her home.

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:08:15Chris Williamson?

  In that situation, looking at her is cheating.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, so there's the difference, if you take the two extremes then as the thought experiment, so one of them is you go over, you're like, hey, how's it going? But actually, they're really attracted to you and because you're standing quite close to them, they get a bit of sexual tension and, and all of that. But actually, in your head, you're just like.

• 1:08:32Chris Williamson?

  I want to ask at the time, or I want to know what, where she got her dress from, because I want to buy my wife the same dress.

• 1:08:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, as opposed to, um, you go over and then you're like, aye, and you fart and you're like, do you like bread? And then you, and then you fall over and head butter and then you walk away like, oh. But actually, the whole intention was, I wanna try and take it home.

• 1:08:51Chris Williamson?

  Or even when you do less and you just look, or you don't even look, you just sit near her and don't look at her or.

• 1:08:57Speaker 02

  Cause this, the, the problem is like, that, there's no binaryness of it. If, if we just look at the action rather than, than the intention, which is this woman's claim of the paradigm. Then we are saying that, um, we have to set our own reasonable point where we say. That action is acceptable, that action is not acceptable. And when we get into that continuum, we start to get into the extreme insecurities that lead to, um.

• 1:09:27Speaker 02

  The like people making their women cover up. Uh or out of pure insecurity for other men looking at them. And it also goes to, if you were to flip it, it's like. By having a nice haircut and wearing nice clothes, you are somehow putting yourself out there for.

• 1:09:45Chris Williamson?

  Signaling, yeah, by going to the gym and making yourself look better and stuff like that.

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  If you're like, oh, no, do it for me, but like, oh, well, but if you're judging it by the action and not the intention, then you could construe anything to be cheating.

• 1:09:57Chris Williamson?

  Such an interesting little experiment that I think about where the line for cheating actually begins and ends.

• 1:10:03Jonny?

  I think it's more about what are you gonna, cause it it's it kind of doesn't really matter, like if looking at someone is cheating. Like, does that mean that the relationship, does that mean you have to go home and tell your wife, like.

• 1:10:16Chris Williamson?

  Do I do I have to go home and tell my wife that I liked another woman's photo?

• 1:10:19Jonny?

  Because like, I'm sure a load of guys have that are in those such situations all the time in nightclubs and have that exact thought.

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  There are many girlfriends that wouldn't want to know that you looked at another woman.

• 1:10:27Jonny?

  And and probably a lot of women in the in exactly the same situation on the opposite way around.

• 1:10:31Speaker 02

  Is that relevant to me?

• 1:10:31Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  Or you could be like Aubrey Marcus and and like having sex with other women isn't cheating.

• 1:10:37Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:38Jonny?

  Because it's polyamorous, isn't it? I suppose you can't cheat in a polyamorous relationship.

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  It's impossible to cheat.

• 1:10:42Jonny?

  It's like what is cheating, it's like breaking the understanding of the situation that you're in.

• 1:10:47Chris Williamson?

  A lot of, a lot of relationships don't have that understanding defined, though, right? No one gets into a relationship and says, okay, for me, cheating is this. So you could get into a relationship with a woman who's incredibly liberal and say, well, no, you can go out for dinner with ex-girlfriends. That's absolutely fine.

• 1:11:04Jonny?

  I see.

• 1:11:04Chris Williamson?

  Like, the the line for cheating can be drawn with, I think for most people, kissing.

• 1:11:09Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:10Chris Williamson?

  And and any sort of physical stuff. What about?

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  Heavy petting.

• 1:11:14Chris Williamson?

  But do you understand, like, what about handholding? What about brushing past someone in the line, like for the water cooler at work?

• 1:11:20Speaker 02

  Then it becomes more difficult to justify a clean intention if you were like holding hands. But like, even though it's not like, it's not, or technically cheating because of the action, but actually, like, why would you be holding hands with a?

• 1:11:33Jonny?

  So probably just it's just whenever it, whenever you're doing something that you wouldn't do with a friend, like whenever it.

• 1:11:38Chris Williamson?

  Okay, so you're holding hands and you're you're holding hands with your sister as you cross the street, holding hands with your mum as you cross the street. I think it comes back to intention.

• 1:11:46Speaker 02

  So that that was the metric that they used when, is it Ariana Grande, when this this guy at the funeral, did you see what happened?

• 1:11:52Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 1:11:52Speaker 02

  Where like, it was a pasta at a funeral and he he had Ariana Grande.

• 1:11:56Chris Williamson?

  Oh, yes.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  From Johnny's actually too wide to do this.

• 1:11:58Chris Williamson?

  The tortilioli.

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  But he he had he had his arm around the fusilli.

• 1:12:01Chris Williamson?

  Pasta.

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  He had his arm round her, but he was grabbing her boob and he was like edging his fingers forward like that.

• 1:12:07Chris Williamson?

  Right.

• 1:12:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, which was very, and it was on camera, and some people were saying this is worse than any normal sexual assault because he's like, he's like signalling like, look what I can do to you in my position of power in front of all these cameras and still get away with it. It's quite insidious, but um the the metric people were using was like, because he was like, oh no, I was just being friendly. And so the responses were like, well, you wouldn't touch your mum like that. So.

• 1:12:33Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 1:12:34Speaker 02

  Which is hard to justify then.

• 1:12:35Chris Williamson?

  It is. We've ended on quite a nice, quite an interesting topic there, actually.

• 1:12:40Jonny?

  Maybe we should do that. Maybe we should do.

• 1:12:42Speaker 02

  I think that we should get sent.

• 1:12:43Jonny?

  Sexual assault one O one.

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  I think.

• 1:12:45Chris Williamson?

  What, how how to avoid it?

• 1:12:47Speaker 02

  Not call it that, but.

• 1:12:48Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:49Jonny?

  Why, that's what it is. Don't shy away from it, you said. It is what it is.

• 1:12:52Chris Williamson?

  Cheating one O one.

• 1:12:53Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:12:54Jonny?

  If you can't just accept facts, you will never be wealthy. That's Anton.

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  We we need to.

• 1:13:00Jonny?

  We should do Anton one O one.

• 1:13:01Chris Williamson?

  Anton, Anton O one.

• 1:13:03Jonny?

  Anton on the podcast.

• 1:13:03Chris Williamson?

  Anton O one.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  We scratched the surface of life fails there.

• 1:13:07Chris Williamson?

  We've got so many.

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  So many more.

• 1:13:08Chris Williamson?

  If you'd like to send us in some of yours, please email the email addresses in the show notes below.

• 1:13:13Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:14Chris Williamson?

  Um, what have we got coming up soon? What have we got next?

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  Relationships one O two.

• 1:13:18Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:19Speaker 02

  Uh, what was the other one that you suggested today?

• 1:13:22Chris Williamson?

  Honesty as a superpower.

• 1:13:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:13:24Chris Williamson?

  Strength training you've wanted to do for absolutely ages.

• 1:13:27Speaker 02

  How to get strong.

• 1:13:28Jonny?

  How to get strong.

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  Alaa Johnny.

• 1:13:30Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Um, what else do we have in there? Oh, finances. So we're gonna go.

• 1:13:34Jonny?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:34Chris Williamson?

  Deeper about personal finances and wealth management and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, please make sure that you subscribe below. Video guiding will make it appear here and here and here and here.

• 1:13:45Jonny?

  Dean's just like, ah, Chris.

• 1:13:47Chris Williamson?

  And here, and here.

• 1:13:48Speaker 02

  And here.

• 1:13:49Chris Williamson?

  And over my face.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  On on Ysef's head and it's gonna revolve on this episode.

• 1:13:53Chris Williamson?

  We we make the work hard for Dean. Anyway, thank you very much for tuning in. We'll catch you next time. Okay, bye then.

• 1:13:57Speaker 02

  Okay, bye then.