Dating, Cheetos, Liquor, Biden, Bernie & Fitness | Michael Malice | Modern Wisdom Podcast 140

Michael Malice is an author, political commentator & podcaster. What happens if Biden or Bernie end up going head to head with Trump in 2020? Who created Flamin' Hot Cheetos? Why is fast fashion killing the wiping rags industry? Is it hard dating when you were once on reality TV? What is the most popular Spirit on the planet? All this & more with my new best friend, Michael. Extra Stuff: Check out The Protein Works - https://bit.ly/TPWChrisWillx "52 Things I learned In 2019" article by Tom Whitwell - https://link.medium.com/v81qy68iE3 Buy Michael's Book - https://amzn.to/31soCH7 Follow Michael on Twitter - https://twitter.com/michaelmalice Take a break from alcohol and upgrade your life - https://6monthssober.com/podcast Check out everything I recommend from books to products - https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/modernwisdom #michaelmalice #biden #bernie - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: [email protected]

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Michael Malice?

  So Angry Old Man Biden is this kind of bubbling understory that I really need to see a lot more of. And my dream is that he gets the nomination and he gets, let's say, physically incapacitated, some, God forbid, and then the party steals it and gives it to Hillary, which is not an impossibility at all, and I would desperately love that to happen. I want to see her lose three times. Any Mummy movie, you're gonna have a trilogy, right?

• 0:26Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 0:26Michael Malice?

  We need the Mummy to come back for the third time and get her final defeat.

• 0:29Chris Williamson?

  Why does Dwayne Johnson fit into this? Because he must have to come.

• 0:31Michael Malice?

  The Rock?

• 0:32Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 0:33Michael Malice?

  He said he's gonna run.

• 0:35Chris Williamson?

  Is that what's happening?

• 0:36Michael Malice?

  I think in 2024, maybe.

• 0:38Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I'd vote for The Rock.

• 0:43Chris Williamson?

  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. Michael Malice in the building. Woo!

• 0:48Michael Malice?

  That's true.

• 0:49Chris Williamson?

  There he is.

• 0:50Michael Malice?

  Hi.

• 0:50Chris Williamson?

  How are you?

• 0:51Michael Malice?

  I'm great.

• 0:52Chris Williamson?

  Fantastic. What's been happening? And actually, no, first off, Dave Rubin got you in a full ensemble, and I get you in a t-shirt. What's happening?

• 1:02Michael Malice?

  Uh, yeah. Well, you also, this is Skype. You wanna, if you want, when you get a studio and not a bedroom, then I'll dress appropriately. I'm in my pajamas, see?

• 1:11Chris Williamson?

  Those are nice. That's a nice check on the bottom, the bottom half.

• 1:15Michael Malice?

  Thank you. And I've got some nice farm socks for no reason. So you're from Newcastle?

• 1:21Chris Williamson?

  Correct.

• 1:22Michael Malice?

  I'm gonna impress you and make you uncomfortable.

• 1:25Chris Williamson?

  Hit me.

• 1:26Michael Malice?

  The one thing I know about Newcastle, which no other American knows, is Mary Bell.

• 1:32Chris Williamson?

  I don't know that. What's that?

• 1:33Michael Malice?

  Mary Bell was 10 or 11, and she was the youngest person convicted of murder in Britain. She killed two toddlers. And then she went to their house, and she's like, "I wanna see Billy." And they're like, "He's dead, love." And she's like, "I wanna see him in his coffin." And they sentenced her to jail at age 11. She's from Newcastle. She's a Geordie. You didn't know this?

• 1:53Chris Williamson?

  That is the most harrowing story that I've ever heard.

• 1:56Michael Malice?

  Yeah, and they left like notes, like, oh, there's murderers around, like a little kid handwriting. Yeah, you didn't know about this?

• 2:02Chris Williamson?

  No, not at all.

• 2:03Michael Malice?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. The book's called Cries Unheard.

• 2:05Chris Williamson?

  Fuck me. What a way to stop, Michael. Come on.

• 2:08Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 2:08Chris Williamson?

  What's the, I've got, I've got stories about flaming cheetos and stuff, and you're talking about like child murder, child and child crime.

• 2:16Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 2:17Chris Williamson?

  Wow. Come on then.

• 2:18Michael Malice?

  That's how I first, well, I, the other thing is that's how I learned about that Newcastle is a thing, other than the beer, which I adore. But also the thing they discussed in the book, which you're gonna have to do for me, is they talked, they said that the Geordie accent is like the most unique accent in all of Britain.

• 2:34Chris Williamson?

  Probably not too far off, correct? Yeah. So when you get really, really thick, it's, it's essentially another language. You gotta remember, we're right next to Scotland. We are as close, yeah, which genuinely is another language. Um, so yeah, there's, there's some people, if you were to, if I was to rule you out into the streets of Newcastle and just get you to try and translate, I think you, I think you might have a bad time.

• 2:56Michael Malice?

  Yeah, or a fun time. Yeah.

• 2:58Chris Williamson?

  Or a fun time. So come on, tell me what's been happening in your world at the moment?

• 3:02Michael Malice?

  Um, I, I don't know. I just, I have my shows, my, my, I mean, my book's out last May. Um, I, I, I'm just like, you know, being a jackass on Twitter. Um, and just, I don't know, having a great 2020. Have you been having a good 2020 so far?

• 3:17Chris Williamson?

  2020's been sick. I've got a question for you. What is your favorite meme of 2020 so far?

• 3:24Michael Malice?

  I'm, uh, of 2020, it's been short.

• 3:27Chris Williamson?

  You don't think there's been much good stuff? I haven't seen much good stuff.

• 3:29Michael Malice?

  I am blanking. Have there been any good memes so far this year? What are some suggestions?

• 3:35Chris Williamson?

  I don't, it depends on what you, I mean, this, um, standing on a box, this Bloomberg box thing, I don't know if that classes as a meme, but oh my God. Like, that is just.

• 3:45Michael Malice?

  It's, I don't know. I've, I've seen better.

• 3:47Chris Williamson?

  You don't like that one?

• 3:48Michael Malice?

  No, I, I, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm a munchkin myself, and there's so much worse things to hit him over.

• 3:54Chris Williamson?

  Okay, got you.

• 3:56Michael Malice?

  I think when you do the body shaming stuff, it's weak. Because like when they say Trump, can I curse on this show?

• 4:02Chris Williamson?

  Fire away, man.

• 4:03Michael Malice?

  So when they talk about like how Trump has a small dick, it's like, okay, like, where are you going with this?

• 4:08Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I understand. I get that.

• 4:11Michael Malice?

  That's not the problem with Bloomberg. The problem is he's like, you know, a crazy person.

• 4:18Michael Malice?

  He was our mayor. I'm from Brooklyn, you know, I remember his mayorship.

• 4:22Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm. What was that like?

• 4:24Michael Malice?

  It wasn't that bad, but you knew if you scratched the surface, this person is dangerous. Cause he was very much a, I'm going to manage every aspect of your life for your own good. You know, he was trying to think of plans about how to have Manhattan not have any cars to force everyone into public transport. He was, I think you guys have that in London where like the tolls on bridges change depending what time of day you use. So like everything is this kind of engineered from the top, very kind of benevolent brave new world kind of situation. Um, so yeah, I'm not, I'm not a particular fan of his.

• 5:01Chris Williamson?

  You've got this dystopian future with Bloomberg at the head of it.

• 5:06Michael Malice?

  If he got in power, yeah. I mean, cause he's got a lot of ideas and when people in government have ideas, that's when things get dangerous.

• 5:11Chris Williamson?

  When they have that power as well.

• 5:13Michael Malice?

  Yeah, correct. Yeah.

• 5:14Chris Williamson?

  So have you heard of Wall Street Bets on Reddit? Do you know what this is?

• 5:18Michael Malice?

  I've not.

• 5:19Chris Williamson?

  Oh, man. This is precisely your sort of thing. So I basically, I have absolutely no structure to today, but I've just got a load of individual facts that we, that we, we can talk about and we can go through. And Wall Street Bets is something I got introduced to recently. So it's a subreddit. And on here, people make the most insane trades. Like just someone who will remortgage their entire house and put it on Apple's stock going down by 5% by Thursday at 12:00 midday.

• 5:48Michael Malice?

  Okay.

• 5:48Chris Williamson?

  And just like literally leverage their entire life purely for internet points from strangers that they've never met.

• 5:56Michael Malice?

  Wow, that does not seem normal.

• 5:57Chris Williamson?

  No, but it is very fun. And if you just have a look, there's something called the dankest Wall Street bet trades, which is like.

• 6:05Michael Malice?

  I do like.

• 6:07Chris Williamson?

  Which is like a quarterly roundup on YouTube that's like commentated and it's all of the dankest bets that someone's made. And like some of them are really good. Like someone who makes like 200 grand in a couple of days, but most of them are just people blowing their whole life savings. Like taking money out of their wife's account to like, and they remortgage the house and do everything, student loans in there as well. And then, yeah, everything goes out the window. You need to check it out.

• 6:33Michael Malice?

  Okay. That sounds very disturbing.

• 6:35Chris Williamson?

  A little bit, not as disturbing as a child killing another child though, Michael. So.

• 6:39Michael Malice?

  You should read the notes. I can't even repeat them, the language in them.

• 6:42Chris Williamson?

  Oh my God.

• 6:43Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 6:44Chris Williamson?

  Right, okay, I've got another thing to talk about, actually, because you're

• 6:46Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 6:47Chris Williamson?

  super expert on North Korea, right?

• 6:48Michael Malice?

  That's true.

• 6:49Chris Williamson?

  But we're not hearing anything about it at the moment. It's all China, China.

• 6:52Michael Malice?

  China, yeah. It makes me sad, because for a little window there, you know, I went there, I wrote a book about it, Dear Reader, I mean, this has been my work for a few years, like, kind of proselytizing, you know, on behalf of these people who are all slaves, and trying to shift the focus from the dictatorship to, you know, the population there. And it, and it was very disturbing to see the subtext, much more in the States than in, you know, I was on the BBC, you know, doing talks on this, but this was much more in the States, where the focus here is so much that Trump is the devil, it almost sounds like you're wanting this to fail. Whereas, you know, you should very much be hoping that, fine, he's the devil, but let's hope this devil pulls out a win on behalf of these, you know, people who've

• 7:37Michael Malice?

  been enslaved for 70 years. And now that it's completely fallen by the wayside, it's very, very discouraging. It's clearly not as much of a priority for the president and the media. And while that happens, the people, you know, the, once you go there, everyone I've met is still there, you know, I see my guide on Instagram, she's very wealthy by North Korean standards, she knows she's in a prison, she knows she can never leave, if she leaves, her family will be murdered publicly, to make an example, that's how they do it. So, it's, it's very, very disheartening that it has kind of fallen by the wayside. And it's also disturbing that China is going in a North Korean direction. North Korean has some, North Korea has something called Sangban, and in the 50s, they interviewed

• 8:21Michael Malice?

  everyone in the country, literally everybody, and they figured out how reliable your family is vis a vis the government. And they slotted everyone, it's like a credit score into three classes, hostile, wavering, or loyal. And this determines everything about your life, including what city you live in, whether you can go to college, you know, who you marry and things like that. And now China is talking about doing this kind of social credit system, which will determine whether you can, like, leave the country. It's, it's very, very discouraging, although the Hong Kong stuff is a little ray of hope.

• 8:52Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I was talking to a data scientist a couple of weeks ago and he was saying that because we have GDPR in the UK, you guys in America don't really have that, but you have some data protection laws and China is just like complete Wild West. Like there is no, there is no limit to what people can do. So here's one. Insurance companies are using people's GPS data on their phone. And if they find out that you are sleeping consistently in two different locations, that is strongly affecting your credit score. And the reason is if you're consistently sleeping in two different locations, it means that you are likely to be in a relationship. If you're

• 9:36Chris Williamson?

  in a relationship, you will get engaged. If you get engaged, you'll get married. And if you get married, you'll probably get divorced, which means that you're a credit risk.

• 9:43Michael Malice?

  But isn't it also if you're in two places, you're more likely to get in a car accident?

• 9:47Chris Williamson?

  Maybe that as well.

• 9:48Michael Malice?

  Yeah, because you're traveling more.

• 9:49Chris Williamson?

  They're also, they're also using the speed at which people fill in their details on insurance forms to affect the amount they pay for insurance.

• 9:59Michael Malice?

  Really?

• 10:00Chris Williamson?

  So if you fill, they have a, like the scraping the data about how much time it takes someone to fill in. And if it takes X amount of time, then this happens. And if it takes X plus two, then this happens and X plus three, then this happens.

• 10:16Michael Malice?

  Yeah, but there's a lot of research behind this. This is not based on nothing, you know, like actuaries, you know, it's amazing how quantifiable I think most human behavior is. Most human beings aren't really capable of, you know, critical thought or original action. So we don't know where this is based on, but I don't think it's tea leaves.

• 10:34Chris Williamson?

  No, not at all. It's absolutely. So the guy that I was speaking to was like, look, all that they've done is modeled two different things. The AI that they've got that's working behind this isn't malevolent or like nefarious. It's not going like, I'm going to pick out the old people or I'm going to pick out the people in relationships. It is that in the past, if someone has characteristic A, then B, and they're just modeling that. But the fact is that you can't hide the data. Like previously, your data about whether or not you are in a relationship or whether or not you are. Take a 10 minutes longer to fill in your social security number or whatever it might be, wouldn't have been publicly available, wouldn't have been used at least to affect.

• 11:09Michael Malice?

  Oh, that's very crazy that it's public. That's really, yeah, because I mean, I bet you like there's a correlation between people who watch Modern Family and a beverage that they drink, right? It's and some other show, some other beverage. That's how data works. But it's that's very, oh, that's, that's weird.

• 11:23Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it is. Do you know what the most popular type of porn is in India for men?

• 11:28Michael Malice?

  Um, for men, India. It's not fucking cows, is it?

• 11:31Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 11:31Michael Malice?

  Am I allowed to say that?

• 11:33Chris Williamson?

  I mean, are you allowed to say that? You're allowed to say it on the podcast. I don't know how you, how much you are supposed to say it. That's.

• 11:41Michael Malice?

  Let me guess, um, India. My friends, my, one of my closest friends is Indian.

• 11:45Chris Williamson?

  Yep.

• 11:46Michael Malice?

  So just to mess with him, I'm going to say man boy.

• 11:50Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 11:51Michael Malice?

  What, what is it?

• 11:52Chris Williamson?

  Breastfeeding.

• 11:55Michael Malice?

  Oh, because that's milk. They love milk.

• 11:57Chris Williamson?

  Is that a thing? I'm not sure if it's the milk. I don't think.

• 11:59Michael Malice?

  If you venerate the cow, you're going to venerate the milk.

• 12:02Chris Williamson?

  Okay. Yeah. I don't, I mean, you've drawn, you've drawn that line. That might be it. I don't know why. I just know that it is. I just know that it is the most popular type of.

• 12:12Michael Malice?

  I've never heard of anyone getting turned on by that.

• 12:15Chris Williamson?

  No, me neither. But go to India, Michael, you will be amongst friends.

• 12:20Michael Malice?

  I, and that's not my, I, I mean, I'm, I'm a fan of the breast. Wait, let me ask you. Now, let's talk about this because this is what I want to know. Okay. And I, I have friends who are very into fitness. Um, I have friends who are like TV models. Uh, they were on like Survivor or whatever. So your job is to be an official hunk, right? That's like your gig. And you can hand wave it away and be like, oh, poor little me. But that's your gig, right?

• 12:42Chris Williamson?

  Partly.

• 12:43Michael Malice?

  Right. What's it? Do you use like dating apps? Is your experience on these dating apps like being a girl that you just get like thousands of hits?

• 12:50Chris Williamson?

  Um, matches are fairly consistent, but again, what we're talking about just there, they select for a very specific type of girl. Does that make sense?

• 13:00Michael Malice?

  No, explain it to me, please.

• 13:01Chris Williamson?

  Okay. So there is a very specific type of girl who will swipe right on a guy that, that has the particular characteristics that I do and my buddies that are the same. And. I don't know, it's weird. Dating isn't massively easy for me or any of the friends that I know that have come out of doing reality TV and do the whole Instagram game. I don't know anyone who has a really easy time of it.

• 13:25Michael Malice?

  I heard that too, that it's easy to get laid, but it's hard to get a girlfriend because the girlfriend that you want are going to see those types floating around you and think you're not interested in her. And at the same time, it's easy for you to get laid. So maybe you're not as interested and it's going to be kind of self-isolating and it's not as, it looks a lot prettier on the outside than it is on the inside. Is that correct?

• 13:45Chris Williamson?

  To a degree. I think it depends on what you're looking for in a partner. So, you know, there'll be some of the guys listening, the girls that have been on reality TV, some of the stuff I've been on. And like with them, some of them want someone else that is in that bracket. And for them, it's like, it's fantastic. It's kind of like inbreeding, but within, within particular social circles. But for me, I'm like, oh, fuck, man. Like, I've done, I'm 31, I've served my time with the Dolly Birds. So for me, I wanted, I want to try and find. But if you go headline title is guy who used to be on Love Island and Blue Tick and asshole. Like, that's what you see? So when I'm, when I'm actually wanting to talk to them about the guy that's the data scientist that works out whether or

• 14:28Chris Williamson?

  not you're sleeping in two locations, that goes completely over their head. And to find the girl who is interested in that, it's actually really challenging.

• 14:34Michael Malice?

  Yeah, because she's going to be put off because she's going to think you're an asshole or completely two-dimensional. My other friend, when he got very fit, what he said, and I wonder if this has been your experience, like when he would go to the bars, the girls who he would want, who are like maybe eights, because they've got a great personality, they're prettier than average, but they're not like at that level where it gets annoying. They are put off. And the ones who are very, very forward and aggressive, like grabbing his genitals, are like the really unattractive ones, who just go up to him and like treat him like meat. Is that your experience?

• 15:09Chris Williamson?

  They're also the ones with daddy issues. The ones that come up and do that are the ones who are the real sort of freaks when you.

• 15:15Michael Malice?

  But that happens.

• 15:16Chris Williamson?

  Sometimes. I mean, it's still, it takes a very, very ballsy girl to come and do that. Like to be the forward thinker. I'm speaking to Heather Bollin, who's an evolutionary psychologist at the end of the week. And I've been reading up a little bit about it. And it is like, there is no, essentially no species in the world where the woman is the sexual protagonist. And the same goes for it takes such a brave girl to come and do that.

• 15:40Michael Malice?

  Do you get men being openly hostile to you when they meet you?

• 15:45Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 15:45Michael Malice?

  Or like, they're not, they're not like giving you the eye?

• 15:48Chris Williamson?

  No, I think there's guys who are significantly more alpha than I am and they might, they might do with them. But my livelihood the last 13 years has been standing on the front door of nightclubs. So I've seen a million people walk past me in nightclubs because that's what I do, I fill clubs. And it's meant that, I don't know, my demeanor of just kind of being accepting and normalizing of just humans in a, in a kind of an environment, normal social environment, I think seems to kind of quell that pretty quickly.

• 16:16Michael Malice?

  Okay, it's interesting.

• 16:17Chris Williamson?

  There's never any of that. I don't know. I mean, what, what was it like for you? Talk to me about your sort of.

• 16:21Michael Malice?

  I'm not a hunk.

• 16:23Chris Williamson?

  That's true.

• 16:23Michael Malice?

  So I don't have to, I, finally I got my abs in, so I, I feel comfortable talking about this stuff with you. But it's very interesting how people who are outliers physically, what their experiences are and how different they are and how different from how people perceive them to be. Like if you, again, like I have a friend who's a model and she's complaining, there's two scenarios, right? One where she's complaining, I can't find a dude. Well, that's because you're a picky bitch. But then there's the one where, yeah, the kind of guy she would want would never think to approach her because he thinks that she would never be interested in him. And when you're at her level, she doesn't need to be dating a model dude because she's like, I'm going to be the pretty one. I'm fine. I want someone who can hold my interest.

• 17:09Michael Malice?

  So it's at that level, it's very, very weird.

• 17:11Chris Williamson?

  It's challenging for girls. It's really challenging for girls, I think, because of hypergamy, right? So women tend naturally to date up and across. And it's the problem, the same problem for any girls that are listening, if you are over six foot one, like I, I feel for you because you're, you're having to look for athletes, you know, like basketball players, stuff like that, like girls tend not to date men that are shorter than them. So if you are, and it's the same thing goes for every other factor about a girl. If you're a nine out of 10 girl or a 10 out of 10 girl, like the guy doesn't want his mates to always be able to say, you're punching. Or if you're a girl who happens to earn half a million pounds a year, like you're, you don't want, despite my Instagram bio saying aspiring trophy husband.

• 17:57Chris Williamson?

  Like most men don't want that.

• 17:59Michael Malice?

  Yeah, but it's also what they find is when they're that good looking, the guy presumes that the woman won't be interested. So they will come at them very aggressively. And when she is obviously not interested in this aggression, then they feel comfortable being very nasty to her. But they're the ones who have set up this whole kind of scenario needlessly. And it becomes self validating. It's very interesting dynamic at that level.

• 18:25Chris Williamson?

  Dating is fascinating, man. I'm rereading Mark Manson's models at the moment, which is like how to attract women through honesty, essentially. And that's so, so interesting as he talks about the things that he's discovered. Mark Manson knows his shit. Like the things that he's discovered make relationships work. And that's super, super, super interesting. I got another thing that we can move on to. So flaming hot cheetos. Do you know who invented them?

• 18:54Michael Malice?

  No.

• 18:54Chris Williamson?

  So Richard Montañez, who was a cleaner at the Frito-Lay factory.

• 18:59Michael Malice?

  Oh.

• 19:00Chris Williamson?

  So the he's now the VP of multicultural sales for PepsiCo America. The guy couldn't read or write when he was the janitor. And while he was there, Roger Enrico, who was like the CEO of Frito-Lay, had encouraged all of the workers to act like an owner. That's what he said, he'd given this big, you know, one of those like end of year announcement speech type things Buffett and people like that give him all the time. And then this guy, this Richard Montañez guy had decided that there wasn't any cheetos for the Mexican markets. Mexicans love spice. And he just started like fucking around with some cheetos and made flaming hot cheetos. And now he's the VP of multicultural sales for PepsiCo.

• 19:44Michael Malice?

  I think I was more of a cheese. I've always been a cheese doodles guy myself.

• 19:48Chris Williamson?

  You see, in America, you guys just have the absolute laundry list of every different type of confectionery and savory item.

• 19:56Michael Malice?

  I'm sorry, how many types of Walkers crisps are there? Like 60?

• 20:01Michael Malice?

  Prawn cocktail, hedgehog, mint lamb.

• 20:05Michael Malice?

  Chicken tikka masala, what are you talking about? We can play this game.

• 20:09Chris Williamson?

  Okay, yeah, you are right. America, though, I mean, sometimes when I go over, I don't know whether it's just novelty, but when I do go to America, I'm just blown away. Like, some of the things that, like, the breakfast cereals is one thing. Like, America does breakfast cereals so good. Super, super impressed by that.

• 20:24Michael Malice?

  If you go to, for the, for the people across the pond who go to the, whenever I go to anywhere, I travel, I go to the supermarket, because I love seeing all the wacky brands.

• 20:31Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 20:32Michael Malice?

  If you come to America and you go down the cereal aisle, every cereal box that's for kids, the character looks like they're on cocaine. They're all, like, really excited and their teeth are showing. And you look at them, like, these, this leprechaun is, like, is cranked up.

• 20:48Chris Williamson?

  Off his face.

• 20:49Michael Malice?

  Yeah, and, yeah, it's really, but you have that notice? Count Chocula is really excited about this cereal. It's like he hasn't slept all night, because he's been doing rails, and now here comes the chocolate to top it off. It's really nuts. Go look, and now you can't unsee it.

• 21:04Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 21:05Michael Malice?

  If anyone goes to the supermarket, they'll see.

• 21:07Chris Williamson?

  You're totally correct, yeah. Count Chocula's been up on a heavy one all night. Right, next up, what do you think is the world's most popular spirit by volume sold?

• 21:16Michael Malice?

  Oh, it's, it's Muay Thai from China.

• 21:19Chris Williamson?

  Baijiu.

• 21:20Michael Malice?

  Baijiu, sorry, yeah.

• 21:21Chris Williamson?

  Baijiu from China. So, the next closest.

• 21:24Michael Malice?

  It tastes like gasoline.

• 21:25Chris Williamson?

  Have you had it?

• 21:27Michael Malice?

  So, I did something called the Arduous March. So, two, I did it twice. I had fans chip in money, and we bought, we did this once with thirty-two bottles and once with forty bottles. And me and my crew did a quarter shot to see if we can get through all of these.

• 21:43Chris Williamson?

  You spoke about this on Rogan, yeah, I remember.

• 21:44Michael Malice?

  Yeah, yeah, and it was all these weird liquors. The weirder, the better. And one of them, of the thirty-two, the, the, it was Muay Thai, I guess it's type of Baijiu, was by far the worst. Nothing was even close to as bad.

• 21:58Chris Williamson?

  What's it taste like?

• 21:58Michael Malice?

  It was horrific. It was a mix of, like, soy sauce and, like, rotten.

• 22:03Chris Williamson?

  Like, just straight off the bat, it's so racist.

• 22:07Michael Malice?

  But it does, it has that salty, like, metallic taste.

• 22:09Chris Williamson?

  Got you, yeah, yeah.

• 22:10Michael Malice?

  And then, like, meat, it was, and, and it, it tasted like maybe some kind of cleanser. It was horrifying. And it keeps, the, the taste stays with you, you know, in your mouth. And I think how it works is they do shots all night and get, like, really, whatever the word for plastered is in Newcastle. And after a while, you don't taste anything, I think, is how it works, it kills your taste buds.

• 22:31Chris Williamson?

  Burns the sensation away.

• 22:33Michael Malice?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:35Michael Malice?

  Yeah, it's really bad.

• 22:36Chris Williamson?

  10 billion liters a year.

• 22:38Michael Malice?

  And some cost like $800 a bottle. It gets really expensive.

• 22:42Chris Williamson?

  Vodka, 5 billion liters a year, buys you 10 billion liters a year.

• 22:47Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 22:48Chris Williamson?

  Shit, man. Right. Next up, drunk shopping is a $45 billion per year industry.

• 22:56Michael Malice?

  Okay.

• 22:57Chris Williamson?

  Where do you drunk shop? You ever drunk shopped?

• 22:59Michael Malice?

  I don't really drink because I get meaner when I drink.

• 23:03Chris Williamson?

  Meaner than usual?

• 23:04Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 23:04Chris Williamson?

  Oh, God. And then does someone need to take your Twitter off you?

• 23:08Michael Malice?

  Take me what?

• 23:08Chris Williamson?

  Take your Twitter off you?

• 23:10Michael Malice?

  No, no, I meant in person.

• 23:12Chris Williamson?

  Oh, okay. Right. Got you.

• 23:13Michael Malice?

  Yeah, I'm Russian, so we are very good at being cruel and I'm also funny. So then the next day I feel guilty when I say these really nasty things, which are funny at the moment.

• 23:22Chris Williamson?

  Your surname is Malice?

• 23:24Michael Malice?

  Yeah, Malice by name, Malice by nature, as Roger Hargreaves would say. Um, uh, I have never done drunk shopping.

• 23:32Michael Malice?

  I don't think I have. Like, online?

• 23:35Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So apparently £444 is the average annual spend of a drunk shopper. Clothing and shoes, most common purchase, and Amazon is the most highly drunk shopped platform.

• 23:45Michael Malice?

  If I'm drunk and I get home, I'm going to bed. I'm not going online. I'm not gonna go shop.

• 23:52Chris Williamson?

  Well, I suppose.

• 23:53Michael Malice?

  Do you?

• 23:53Chris Williamson?

  No, no, I don't. I'm just thinking, I'm wondering if this is the married woman.

• 24:01Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 24:01Chris Williamson?

  Not gonna booty call, you know, it's not a you up 2:30 AM text that she's going to send to like a bunch of people, which, by the way, we have a series called Life Hacks on the podcast. A life hack which will never be featured on there, but I'm gonna put on now is one that a friend used to use. He has a broadcast list on WhatsApp of 3 AM girls, 4 AM girls, and 5 AM girls. And that is like in descending order of preference that he will send a like, what you up to and just broadcast it to the whole list individually. And then if they reply, great. But if no one does, then it goes to the 4 AM list. Then he sends that. And then if no one replies, then it's like the 5 AM list and that's like.

• 24:38Michael Malice?

  It's like Dante's Inferno.

• 24:41Chris Williamson?

  You descend through the circles of WhatsApp.

• 24:46Michael Malice?

  At the very base, it's Judas being chewed by Satan.

• 24:51Michael Malice?

  Oh, I then, right. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. Because I think is when I'm going to stop drinking, I'm, that's when I go home and I'm not going online at all. It's got to be when you're drinking by yourself.

• 25:04Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. So you, you double screen and you've got like Modern Family or whatever on and it's like a Tuesday at 9:00 PM. And you've had a bottle of wine and you're just like.

• 25:16Michael Malice?

  Yeah, and some soup for yourself. Yeah.

• 25:18Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. And then you buy some more.

• 25:19Michael Malice?

  For one. Yeah.

• 25:20Chris Williamson?

  Buy some more soup. Right. What else have we got here? Here, this one's, this one's so good, Michael.

• 25:25Michael Malice?

  Okay.

• 25:26Chris Williamson?

  Right. So emojis are starting to appear in evidence in court cases.

• 25:31Michael Malice?

  Okay.

• 25:31Chris Williamson?

  And lawyers are worried when emoji symbols are strung together, we don't have a reliable way of interpreting their meaning.

• 25:38Michael Malice?

  Okay. Yeah.

• 25:40Chris Williamson?

  In 2017, an Israeli judge had to decide if one emoji filled message constituted a verbal contract. So this guy had replied about coming to inquire about a house. And he was trying to work out like if the monkey or chipmunk on the end was some sort of positive reinforcement that he actually meant that he was going to like come and do something with this house.

• 26:02Michael Malice?

  Um, my favorite series of emojis, Kurt Schlichter, he's a senior columnist at Town Hall. He goes after the Bill Kristol types Republicans and what he invented was the fist, the eggplant, and then the squirting water.

• 26:18Chris Williamson?

  It's a classic. It's a classic.

• 26:21Michael Malice?

  It's so much better than the finger.

• 26:25Michael Malice?

  Yeah, it's really, really great. So credit to Kurt for that. Yeah.

• 26:28Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Well, what, I tell you what, you can tell a lot from a man by what his most frequently used emojis are. Have you got your phone nearby? Can we see your most?

• 26:37Michael Malice?

  I, I don't use the, I don't do them on the phone. I do them on Twitter. I'll tell you what they are.

• 26:40Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 26:40Michael Malice?

  I, I know them off the top of my head. The blowing kiss one.

• 26:44Chris Williamson?

  Yep.

• 26:44Michael Malice?

  Because if someone sends me a nice tweet and I don't want to write a long reply, I'll blow him a kiss.

• 26:48Chris Williamson?

  Yep.

• 26:49Michael Malice?

  Or if I'm being like nasty to somebody else, I'd be like, or maybe ask your mom, blowing a kiss. The other one is if I'm being really snide and bitchy on Twitter, I'll do the nail polish one to signify this is being bitchy.

• 27:03Chris Williamson?

  Queen. Yes.

• 27:04Michael Malice?

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I asked queen. Yeah. Just got the nail polish. Um, or yeah, if someone says something like, well, maybe not with that shirt on, you know, then the nail polish comes out. Um, and the other one I use is although less frequently since Bolsonaro took over Brazil is the helicopter emoji. So the helicopter emoji, and I talk about this in my book, is when Pinochet took over Chile in 1979 uh, in a military coup, he took a lot of communists and non-communists apparently and in helicopters and threw them in the ocean. So when you see someone on Twitter who's being particularly egregious, you just reply with the helicopter and they won't know what it is, but everyone else will. But now that we've got a guy in Brazil who's kind of in that direction and it's not that funny, uh, I've, I've used it much less.

• 27:49Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, you gotta roll back on that. But getting, getting the sea is a very good response to anyone that just, that needs to leave, that needs to depart the conversation.

• 27:57Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 27:58Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Okay. Uh, fast fashion is, is wiping, is hitting the wiping rags business. So.

• 28:05Michael Malice?

  What's the wipe wiping rag?

• 28:06Chris Williamson?

  Wiping rags. So there's billions of years. So about.

• 28:09Michael Malice?

  Stick English, motherfucker.

• 28:11Chris Williamson?

  Wiping rags. It's a rag for wiping, Michael.

• 28:14Michael Malice?

  Okay. Yeah. Okay.

• 28:16Chris Williamson?

  So 30% of textiles that are recovered for recycling in the US get used to wipe shit. Painters need to wipe up their splodges.

• 28:23Michael Malice?

  Okay. Like cloths.

• 28:25Chris Williamson?

  Wait, so it's.

• 28:26Michael Malice?

  Are they paper towels or they cloths?

• 28:27Chris Williamson?

  They're cloths.

• 28:28Michael Malice?

  Okay.

• 28:29Chris Williamson?

  So it's like textile material, right? So you're an engineer who's got to clean down some of the oil or whatever on a machinery, all this sort of stuff. And apparently fast fashion. So this like, do you guys have like pretty little thing and, and kind of? Imagine any dress that Kendall Jenner is on an affiliate deal for.

• 28:48Michael Malice?

  Okay.

• 28:49Chris Williamson?

  It costs about $20 and, and every girl owns it. It's like a disposable dress, right? Like a single use dress or a single use t-shirt. That's fast fashion. And this clothing quality is so low that it's annihilating the wiping rags business because they literally can't stand up to wiping shit.

• 29:08Michael Malice?

  Okay.

• 29:08Chris Williamson?

  So it's such, such bad quality that once you've worn it, when you try to wipe some paint up with it, it just falls to pieces.

• 29:15Michael Malice?

  I'm the opposite. I am a big denim collector, right? I've got 30 pairs of jeans and the trick with the raw denim is, yeah, but you wear it for years because it breaks down and you get the fades, you know what I mean? And it kind of adapts to your body and you know what I mean? Like that's the fun of it, right? And you almost never wash them. So this is the exact opposite of the kind of fashion I like. Like I like it when your clothes, you know, like if you have corduroys where the whales have worn down over seven years, that's fun. You know what I mean? Cause I hate, this is what drives me crazy. This is my autism speaking. When you have clothes that are distressed, but you bought them new.

• 29:50Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 29:50Michael Malice?

  Like with the faded logos, that's so, it drives me crazy. I want to have that t-shirt that's been through the wash 30 times. And now it's, the letters are falling off. That's fun. Cause I put in the work.

• 30:02Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. You want to feel like it's, it's a shortcut to success.

• 30:05Michael Malice?

  Yes, I've earned it. This is my, this, and this shirt has seen me through some tough times. Exactly.

• 30:12Chris Williamson?

  Fuck. Yeah. I'm a, I'm a man who probably shortcuts that, but then I, I buy cheap stuff. Do you know what I mean? I spend my nights surrounded by drunken students on the front door of a nightclub. I don't want anything nice. Everything nice that I own is destroyed.

• 30:25Michael Malice?

  How annoying is it? Do, are they all up in your face about the show and about Insta?

• 30:30Chris Williamson?

  Um, they were when it was a little bit more recent. So it's been like four and a half, four and a half years now. Um, a little bit more. I got barred from the front door of my own event by my business partner. Because, because when I would walk around outside, there would just be this throng of people that would like,

• 30:48Chris Williamson?

  like cats jumping up and down or something. Um, but that, that's kind of, that's kind of chilled now. So I can actually do my job again, which is, which is nice.

• 30:56Michael Malice?

  Do you get hit on more by chicks or by dudes?

• 30:59Chris Williamson?

  Chicks. I give off a real bad gay vibe. I was just.

• 31:01Michael Malice?

  Really?

• 31:01Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. My gaydar. Oh, I don't know how it works. My gaydar is accurate for other people, but my like appearance on the gaydar for, for people that are gay.

• 31:11Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 31:11Michael Malice?

  Huh. I thought the pretty guys get a hit on the most. I did not know this. Okay, interesting.

• 31:15Chris Williamson?

  I'm not sure. We were asking this question the other day. I want to know, if you're a gay man, like, how do you know if you're, if you're like a, a top or a bottom?

• 31:23Michael Malice?

  I've no, I, I, I don't know.

• 31:25Chris Williamson?

  But do you know what I mean? Like, if you're listening, and can you please explain? Like, do you, do you sometimes swap? Is it a, you know, is it always a one, a one-way street type thing? I want to know, because on In, on Grindr, you can choose whether or not you're top or bottom. Or I think you might be able to choose both. But like, how do you know? And what if two tops arrive? Or two bottoms?

• 31:44Michael Malice?

  Well, I, I think the analog would be, do you like choking her in bed? Or do you like getting choked in bed, right?

• 31:51Chris Williamson?

  But you can still have sex either way.

• 31:54Michael Malice?

  Right, but it's more like which is the more dominant and which is the more submit, I don't know. I think we're talking about things we're not really familiar with, so we would have.

• 32:02Chris Williamson?

  We definitely are. That is definitely correct. What else have we got here? Um, oh, mushrooms. Mushroom, mushrooms and truffles are more closely related to humans than they are to plants.

• 32:14Michael Malice?

  Yeah, because of the proteins.

• 32:15Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, and they breathe in, I only found this out the other day, that they breathe in oxygen and breathe out carbon dioxide. What the fuck?

• 32:20Michael Malice?

  Yeah, yeah, they're, and that's why they're used as meat analogs.

• 32:24Chris Williamson?

  I didn't know this.

• 32:25Michael Malice?

  Yeah, yeah. Um, so, I mean, if you think about how fungus works, it basically breaks down plant matter into its own form. So in a very, very primitive way, that's like eating.

• 32:36Chris Williamson?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, they split off. So there was plants at the top, and then us and plants split off. But after us and plants split off, us and fungi split off. So where?

• 32:46Michael Malice?

  Oh, I thought fungi came before plants. No?

• 32:48Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 32:49Michael Malice?

  Oh, interesting. Okay.

• 32:51Chris Williamson?

  So we are, we are part of a lineage that's after that.

• 32:54Michael Malice?

  Okay, that's very cool.

• 32:55Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, I thought that was interesting. And then, I mean, Paul Stamets has got all this stuff, right? Where he goes on about the mycelium under the floor that can talk to each other a million miles away and all this stuff.

• 33:05Michael Malice?

  I just got a fossil of something called Dickinsonia, which looks like a quilted circle. And for a long time, they didn't know whether it's a fungus, or a jellyfish, or a plant, or, since it's the oldest fossil, or something that is not related to anything contemporaneous. And then somehow they found cholesterol molecules in one of the fossils. So now they know it was actually an animal. So it's really weird how things that look nothing like us, just based on the chemical composition, we can figure out what it is, right? Because fungus looks so different. Some fungus don't have fruiting bodies. They're completely parasitic, whatever. Toenail fungus doesn't look like a mushroom to us, right? We don't know if it's a virus, an infection, you know, bruise.

• 33:44Chris Williamson?

  Just a thing.

• 33:44Michael Malice?

  So, just a thing. And we can look based on how, for billions of years, there's certain things that have stayed the same. Isn't that weird?

• 33:53Chris Williamson?

  It's crazy, man. I absolutely love thinking about that stuff. You've mentioned there, you've mentioned a couple of times, buying stuff, random shit from the internet. Well, have you been spite funding recently? And can you, for the people who don't know what that is, can you explain what it is?

• 34:06Michael Malice?

  So I had this idea once when someone came for me on Twitter. I said, "It would be a real shame if people gave me money for something I didn't want, just to spite you." And the donations kept coming in. I have a bunch of stuff right here, I'll show you. And I'm like, "All right, so here, I have, this is a pen, you're not gonna be able to see it really, made out of fordite." Fordite is what happens in factories when after years of hand spray painting, it makes layers and layers and layers, and it's kind of a synthetic mineral. So this is a pen made out of fordite. This is another pen. This is from a Corvette factory.

• 34:44Chris Williamson?

  That is cool.

• 34:45Michael Malice?

  Then I have a pen stand made out of a walrus tusk. I did not need this, but they paid for it. After a while, it gets harder and harder to find things to buy. This is a pen from South Africa made out of a warthog tusk.

• 35:00Chris Williamson?

  Oh my god.

• 35:01Michael Malice?

  I don't need seven pens. This pen is made out of-

• 35:03Chris Williamson?

  Do you write much? Do you ever write? Have you ever written anything?

• 35:06Michael Malice?

  Well, not with my pens. I'm an author, I use a computer. This one is made of wood from the DMZ between the careers. So that's pretty cool.

• 35:14Chris Williamson?

  That's cool, that's cool as fuck.

• 35:15Michael Malice?

  What else do I have handy?

• 35:16Chris Williamson?

  So, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Who has got hold of that piece of wood?

• 35:22Michael Malice?

  So the guy who made it, his friend was stationed in the South Korean part, and he just branched and sent it back to-

• 35:29Chris Williamson?

  Fuck me, that's a dangerous-

• 35:32Michael Malice?

  Yeah, it's really fun, this spite funding thing. I just, um, I'm looking right now of a signed photo of Andy Kaufman, who's my hero, hanging above my head. So it's really fun, a shtick to do.

• 35:44Chris Williamson?

  And what else? You thinking about anything else at the moment, or is it just sort of spur of the moment?

• 35:49Michael Malice?

  I've got a pair of tribal print pants, corduroys from Japan, in honor of Elizabeth Warren, but someone bought them from under me, so the money's still in escrow. But that was it, yeah. And when Kamala Harris, I don't know how familiar they are with her over there, she was this cop who was running for president, just really an abomination of a human being. So when she lost, we had a ham, because the pig was roasted. I guess you call them the filth over there, right? We had a ham tasting. I had this Spanish ham and all the hams from all over the world.

• 36:20Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 36:20Michael Malice?

  Actually, that's really funny. Let me tell you something interesting. The first time I did an interview with the BBC, and this was a very shocking moment to me, and I'm gonna offend some people and I apologize in advance. I was born in Russia, so the way the Soviets, Russians look at the police is very different from the States. And I was doing an interview on BBC Four or something, and they said, "Oh, this website you work on, you guys make a lot of jokes about the police." And I thought, you know, Britain's much more left than the States. And I said, "Well, it's like my dad always told me," and this is true, like wherever you go on Earth, whenever you find yourself, the dumbest people are the cops. And they audibly gasped, and they go, "This is a family show," and they changed the subject.

• 37:02Michael Malice?

  And that was the first time I realized how that is politically incorrect to say. It was very jarring, because I wasn't cursing or anything.

• 37:09Chris Williamson?

  How would that joke have gone down in America?

• 37:13Michael Malice?

  Oh, it would not go down here. Here would be very controversial. I'd get a lot of heat for it, so I'd bite my tongue, and I'm like, I didn't real... The animus was out of proportion to the very weak bit of humor that there was to it.

• 37:27Chris Williamson?

  Hmm, and you just didn't think, you didn't know how it was gonna land?

• 37:30Michael Malice?

  I didn't think it was gonna land bad at all, because this is Europe. So I assumed it was going to be the same as in Russia, and it was not. It was much closer to the States.

• 37:41Chris Williamson?

  Definitely is. Yeah, it is. What else have we got? Oh, no babies born in Britain in 2016 were called Nigel.

• 37:50Michael Malice?

  Oh, I love him and I'm in love with him.

• 37:53Chris Williamson?

  I have a few friends that are called Nigel. They're a dying breed.

• 37:56Michael Malice?

  He is. I met him at the studio once and I go to him, Mr. Farage, what do you think of Enoch Powell? And he goes, he's an interesting man, very interesting. And I'm like, all right, I got you.

• 38:13Chris Williamson?

  That's what Russell Brand called him, didn't he? Called him the pound shop Enoch Powell.

• 38:17Michael Malice?

  Did he?

• 38:18Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, Russell Brand referred to him, I think on Question Time, as they're sat on the same panel. He was like five yards away from him and said he's the pound shop Enoch Powell.

• 38:27Michael Malice?

  Do people in the UK not appreciate the savagery when he goes to the European Parliament and basically takes a shit on the desk?

• 38:36Chris Williamson?

  I think British people have a very unique sense of humour.

• 38:42Michael Malice?

  Sure.

• 38:42Chris Williamson?

  And I actually don't think that they find what Farage does as funny as what Farage does is.

• 38:48Michael Malice?

  Okay.

• 38:49Chris Williamson?

  Does that make sense?

• 38:50Michael Malice?

  Yeah, because when, to me, I don't know how many people saw it, like when Brexit finally happened and he gave his little speech and they all got up and started waving their little Union Jacks. It was so, so stupid and so, so funny. And then the lady at the front of the room is like, sit down and get rid of your flags. And he's like, don't worry, we're leaving. And I'm like, this is hilarious. And it's not meant to be taken seriously at all. It's clearly clownish intentionally. And I don't, I, you know, people here in the States get very, very upset by Trump tweets when they're the stupidest thing ever. And I'm like, how are you giving this the power to, yeah, I get it's the president, but this, of all the things he's done,

• 39:32Michael Malice?

  this is the one that gets you upset that he's, you know, making fun of this person? I mean, how are you, how are you, how do you have this much energy to be this triggered after this much time?

• 39:42Chris Williamson?

  Man, this is what I replied to you on Twitter yesterday. You retweeted a video of some people protesting outside of the White House, ringing bells and shouting shame. And the first thought into my mind was, I don't understand how these people have so much time. I dream of having that much spare time that I could go and do that. I need to manage my schedule more efficiently or get them to do it.

• 40:05Michael Malice?

  They need to be doing more drunk shopping.

• 40:07Chris Williamson?

  They do. Well, they bought, obviously, fuck, Richard, we've bought this bell from Amazon. I was wasted. What am I gonna do with it? Why don't we go to the White House and then it'll look, we'll post hoc rationalize the bell purchase and make it look like it was social justice.

• 40:23Michael Malice?

  And we can make this all right off.

• 40:24Chris Williamson?

  Yep. And it's tax deductible. Yeah, it was used as part of content. Let's talk, I mean, you know, this year 2020, all that's gonna happen is election shit, right? Like, it's, that's all that's going on. How do you see the rest of this year playing out? What's gonna happen?

• 40:39Michael Malice?

  I, well, tonight, as, as we record, is the Iowa primary caucuses, which is the first voting in the Democratic nomination. And over the last week, it's become full-blown warfare between the establishment and the Bernie Sanders people, which I absolutely love any kind of political carnage. Depending on what happens tonight, it looks like it's gonna get very, very, very ugly, very, very, very quickly. Bernie has already been launching ads explicitly attacking the Democratic Party, which I think is historically unprecedented. He says, the ad, like, we make Trump nervous, we make the insurance companies nervous, we make the Democratic establishment nervous. I don't think that's real, even Trump never

• 41:21Michael Malice?

  really went after the quote-unquote Republican establishment. So, and he's surging. So if that is validated by a win, I don't know, they are already talking, the DNC, Democratic National Committee, what they can do to stop this guy. So it might get even more public and even more brazen. You might not have seen this across the pond, but, you know, Elizabeth Warren said, he said to her that a woman can't get elected president. They tried to play it off like he's saying a woman shouldn't get elected president. And on MSNBC, one of our networks, which is failing badly, Joanne Reed had a body language expert to prove that Bernie was lying. I mean, this is basically a tea leaves. It was, so to be that brazen, and I'm hardly a Bernie person, is gonna be great. We're gonna see unprecedented

• 42:06Michael Malice?

  machinations on both sides of the Democratic Party. But you're having the same thing. You have the real-life Titania McGrath, Rebecca Long Bailey, about to take over for Jeremy Corbyn, and she's saying that inequality keeps her up at night. It's like, get some rest bitch, calm down.

• 42:23Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I mean, what is going to happen in the UK?

• 42:28Chris Williamson?

  The thing about the UK is, politics is so short-lived for us. Like, in America, ever since 2016, all that anyone in America's wanted to talk about is, how did Trump get elected? Then there's like, the great hack on Netflix, which was that documentary about how the Cambridge Analytica scandal. Then there's like, all this Ukraine stuff, then there's impeachment stuff, then there's Russian hacking and Russian bot farms. And it's just been four years constantly of like, post hoc rationalizing what the fuck happened, right? And with the UK, as soon as, so on the couple of weeks leading up to the election, there was all rousing people with roses in their bio, and for the many, not the few, and all this stuff.

• 43:09Michael Malice?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:09Chris Williamson?

  Two weeks later, it's all forgotten. Two weeks later, Love Island's on, or I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here's on ITV, on the TV channel. So they're just calling someone a fat bitch on TV, that's all that happens.

• 43:21Michael Malice?

  What was your reaction when you saw Diane Abbott wearing two left shoes? And the different ones? I mean, that, I actually love her. Like, I love her a lot, because here's what, people make fun of her. We have people like Diane Abbott here. The thing where I think I really respect her is she knows how to stick to the message, right? She was on with Piers Morgan, and he's like, what's Labour's plan for immigration? And she's like, Piers, the Tories don't, it's not working, and it's disaster. He's like, okay, fine, what's your plan? I've told you, Piers, the Tories. And I'm sitting there, and I'm like, I respect a politician who's getting punched in the face, and is not reacting. That takes skill, and that takes fortitude.

• 44:06Michael Malice?

  I'm not being ironic or sarcastic. Because here, they get flustered, they freak out. So she's disciplined. So it's, I find her very, very interesting.

• 44:15Chris Williamson?

  When you see that single-mindedness, so we saw it on election night, as soon as the exit polls happened, someone somewhere in the Labour Party had trickled down. Call it a Brexit issue, call it a Brexit vote. And that was all you heard from the first guy that came out. And then I can't remember who it was, one of the panel pundits on this side of the BBC had managed to get a leaked message memorandum type thing that had gone around, which was like, right, this is the party line. And he was reading through this leaked thing on air and just saying, and just saying like, yeah, they're just saying, just focus on Brexit, call it a Brexit issue. Because then the finger is kind of not really pointed at the fact that we didn't have any good policies.

• 44:57Michael Malice?

  Yeah. And then Brexit is going to be resolved. So now we can have a clean slate next time.

• 45:01Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Which I don't think is going to change anything either. Okay. So we've got that with, with Bernie moving forward. Have you got, do you put your money where your mouth is with stuff for what's going to happen later this year? Or you're not, you do not do that this far out?

• 45:12Michael Malice?

  I've put my money where my mouth is, that I donated money to Biden, because I want a year of him campaigning. He just recently went to the coal miners and told them, if you know how to shovel coal, you can learn how to program a computer, which is a lie. That's not accurate. I don't, if someone knows how to use a computer doesn't mean they can shovel coal either. So his son being an admitted crackhead, the fact that we can use the word crackhead and have it be funny again. Whenever he tweets, I always tweet with a response of a crack pipe. And people reply to me, that's not a crack pipe, that's a meth pipe. And how foolish of me not to know the distinction between the two. Or they correct me, he's not the crackhead, his son is the crackhead. Oh, how embarrassing. So I want a year of this. Plus, he's been getting very, very

• 45:56Michael Malice?

  feisty on the campaign trail. He's been yelling at people. He's been turning his backs on them. He's been telling them to vote for Trump. So angry old man Biden is this kind of bubbling understory that I really need to see a lot more of. And my dream is that he gets the nomination, and he gets, let's say, physically incapacitated some, God forbid, and then the party steals it and gives it to Hillary, which is not an impossibility at all. And I would desperately love that to happen. I want to see her lose three times. Any mommy movie, you're going to have a trilogy, right? We need the mommy to come back for the third time and get her final defeat.

• 46:33Chris Williamson?

  Where does Dwayne Johnson fit into this? Because he must have to come.

• 46:36Michael Malice?

  The Rock. He said he's gonna run.

• 46:39Chris Williamson?

  Is that what's happening?

• 46:41Michael Malice?

  I think in 2024, maybe. Yeah.

• 46:43Chris Williamson?

  I'd vote for The Rock.

• 46:43Michael Malice?

  But Trump runs for his third term.

• 46:47Michael Malice?

  So wait, let me ask you this, Mr. Fitness Guy. How do you stay motivated on a cut? And how do you psychologically handle losing the strength? Those mind games are the toughest part because I was at the gym last week and my lifts were all down. And it's like, what's the point? Blah, blah, blah. You know, the brain fucks with itself.

• 47:09Chris Williamson?

  So the problem you've got when you're training for aesthetics and not performance is that your progress in the mirror is always going to be subjective, not objective. So if you were training purely for strength, you would know, last week I lifted X, this week I lifted X plus five. Good. Whereas you could wake up 2% leaner than you were a month ago, but be in a shit headspace. Look at yourself in the mirror and go, I look fucking shit. I really don't like this or I'm not whatever. Scales are lying, whatever it might be. So I think.

• 47:38Michael Malice?

  But isn't it also interrupting? I'm sorry. It's also when you have hunger and you have the calorie depletion. Your brain is also going to tell you negative things. It's you're not in a positive place like when you're stuffing your face and you have all the carbs and endorphins.

• 47:50Chris Williamson?

  But diet brain. So it's when you're on a diet, all you can think about is the next bit of food. Like I just want more. And it's the same thing. I was talking to Morgan Housel. You know who Morgan is? Wrote for a big, big sort of Wall Street advisor and personal finance guy. And we were talking about debt brain. It's like if you're in debt, like severely in debt and you don't know where the next meal or the next payment on the credit card is coming from. It's precisely the same as diet brain. So in terms of how you can kind of keep motivation up. It's challenging, man. Like a diet will turn anyone crazy. I have a friend.

• 48:24Michael Malice?

  I say regimen. Girls have diets, men have regimens and it has the word men in it.

• 48:28Chris Williamson?

  Correct. Nice. Nice. Regia MXN.

• 48:34Michael Malice?

  Yeah, there you go. Yeah.

• 48:38Chris Williamson?

  Um, yeah, it's challenging, man. So the best thing that I can say is just to kind of stick to the process. Like if you just continue to stick to whatever the plan is that's in front of you, ensure that you're having a refeed day, you're refeeding when you, so you're on a calorie deficit and then you're having one day that's high.

• 48:56Michael Malice?

  No, I should start doing that.

• 48:57Chris Williamson?

  I think so. As long as you don't have such a high day that it bumps your total weekly calories then over into a surplus. But let's say that, let's say that you're on, are you tracking calories?

• 49:06Michael Malice?

  I do macros.

• 49:08Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah. So do you know what you, do you know your macros are?

• 49:10Michael Malice?

  Uh, I can tell you, sure.

• 49:11Chris Williamson?

  Tell me now.

• 49:12Michael Malice?

  Hold on, let me open the file.

• 49:13Chris Williamson?

  What do you weigh?

• 49:15Michael Malice?

  I am, I dropped, I'm down to 137.

• 49:18Chris Williamson?

  137?

• 49:20Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 49:20Chris Williamson?

  Wow.

• 49:21Michael Malice?

  Well, I'm also 5'6".

• 49:22Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, but still 137, 137 at 5'6" is light, man. You must, that's why, that's why the abs have come in though, right?

• 49:29Michael Malice?

  Oh yeah, and the cum gutters too. I'm very excited. Um, 176 protein.

• 49:33Chris Williamson?

  Yep.

• 49:34Michael Malice?

  175 carbs and 51 fat.

• 49:37Chris Williamson?

  That's good.

• 49:38Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 49:38Chris Williamson?

  That's good. That's nice. I think that's what's that probably about 2,100 carbs, I think for the day, something like that.

• 49:43Michael Malice?

  I think approximately, my friend said they are about just about 2,000. Yeah.

• 49:45Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, got you. So I think if you're doing 2,000, 2,000, and then if you had one low day and then one day where you maybe did 25 and allowed yourself to eat a little bit more and chose that, chose that on a day when you, you know that you're going to really lift and then you're actually going to go in, you're going to feel a little bit more full and you're going to feel a little bit more energized to go into the gym and stuff like that. So it's quite.

• 50:06Michael Malice?

  And then it's, then it's also easier psychologically because you, you have to tell yourself, I just got to hang in till Saturday.

• 50:12Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 50:12Michael Malice?

  And then I have my reward. Okay, that's very helpful.

• 50:15Chris Williamson?

  Another thing as well to consider is anyone that's listening that's ever been on a diet will, if you've gone on a regimen, uh, well, the regimen, um,

• 50:27Chris Williamson?

  uh, I had, so I had Andrew Doyle on, creator of Titania McGrath.

• 50:31Michael Malice?

  Just with him in, in LA.

• 50:33Chris Williamson?

  How amazing.

• 50:33Michael Malice?

  He's gay. And I said to him, I go, Andrew, we have to take the faggot photo ever. So if you go to my Instagram, there's a picture of us feeding each other pink ice cream. Um, and there's also another picture of me wiping it off his cheek because he's a girl, right? You know what I mean? Um, and it's really, really fun. He's hilarious. I adore him.

• 50:53Chris Williamson?

  Dude, so he was sat in my living, he was sat in my living room there. He was playing at the Edinburgh Fringe and he was going to London to be on Sky News and then getting the train up and the train goes past my house essentially. Stopped off, came in, had a coffee, fucked off up there. My, I was in, I couldn't breathe. There was some of the things he comes out with.

• 51:12Michael Malice?

  He's so, I adore him, yeah.

• 51:13Chris Williamson?

  Have you seen that him and Douglas Murray are both touring the UK?

• 51:17Michael Malice?

  No, that's awesome.

• 51:18Chris Williamson?

  As a pair.

• 51:20Michael Malice?

  That's amazing. Douglas was supposed to be on my show, but he couldn't get like the licenser to get to the States or something.

• 51:25Chris Williamson?

  Visa thing. Outlawed from the States.

• 51:27Michael Malice?

  Oh, but speaking of States, I just saw something else. I got spite funded. You're not gonna be able to make this out. This is, it's not gonna focus. This is the first penny ever made from 1787, designed by Ben Franklin. And on it, it says, mind your business. If you look.

• 51:44Chris Williamson?

  Why? Why? What? Why?

• 51:46Michael Malice?

  G I O. It's the first penny, yeah.

• 51:49Chris Williamson?

  How did you, how much was that?

• 51:51Michael Malice?

  It was only a $200.

• 51:54Chris Williamson?

  For the first penny in America?

• 51:56Michael Malice?

  Yeah, that's not that much. It goes for much more.

• 51:58Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I know. That's what I mean.

• 52:00Michael Malice?

  Yeah, 200. First penny from 1787.

• 52:02Chris Williamson?

  I just thought it would have been like million, I thought it, I don't know, like some.

• 52:05Michael Malice?

  It's not literally the first one. I mean, they were in circulation.

• 52:07Chris Williamson?

  I get it, but there's not gonna be many of them floating around, right?

• 52:09Michael Malice?

  Correct. And especially not in good condition where the, a lot of them, the slogans worn off. I'm like, no, no, I have to see mind your business. Is that great?

• 52:16Chris Williamson?

  You should get, you should wear it around your neck or something like that.

• 52:19Michael Malice?

  Oh my, I wouldn't, if I, oh, that's not a bad idea.

• 52:23Chris Williamson?

  Melt it down and turn it into like something else.

• 52:26Michael Malice?

  I was gonna frame it and have it right when you walk into my house, like a nice little frame.

• 52:31Michael Malice?

  I'd order in the bathroom or something. I don't know. I love it. I gotta find a frame for it.

• 52:34Chris Williamson?

  That's awesome, man. Okay, so we roll, we're rolling the clock forward. We're getting to later in this year. And then what happens? What happens? Okay, two, two scenarios. First one is Trump versus Biden. Second one is Trump versus Bernie. What happens when they actually stand off against each other?

• 52:47Michael Malice?

  I don't think that the Democratic Party will allow Bernie to be the nominee.

• 52:54Chris Williamson?

  How, how did they sabotage that?

• 52:55Michael Malice?

  I don't know how they would do it, whether they would change the rules at the last minute. There's a lot of corporate power in the Democratic Party. And I'm sure with the Labour Party too, they, they pretend it's all for the people. Corporate power is powerful, you know, every country in all parties, right? They will, these corporate, Bernie's no joke when it comes to democratic socialism and, you know, contempt for corporations and corporate power in America. He, he means it. He's been saying this for decades. I don't know what they will do. But they will do whatever it takes because as we're seeing here, you're not, you guys aren't privy to it. The media has now started jumping against him in collusion with the Democratic Party.

• 53:38Michael Malice?

  So what the press did against Trump in 2015, 16, they're going to do against Bernie. They're going to start dropping things. I, I, I'm absolutely certain they will never let him be the nominee. Let's, but let's pretend that he does somehow. Let's pretend. If it's Trump versus Biden, it is going to be, uh, the, it's not often we get to see an old man beaten and laugh. Like beaten till his teeth fall out. Um, it's going to be horrible to watch. He's not well. I think he's a decent guy. I think he cares about people. I think he is a little bit senile. He forgot Obama's name. He's forgetting how to talk often. He just recently said L, L B, L G B T O B G Y N.

• 54:23Michael Malice?

  Like he was, he said this, this is not a function of, you know, it's, it's, but it's kind of sad. Because the guy suffered through a lot. He's had family tragedies. I wish him not, I make fun of the son, but I don't think he's a bad person. And even this, all of this, even if this corruption were all true, it's hardly bad by political standards. Everyone does this kind of stuff. So I do feel bad for him, number one. Um, so I think Trump would wipe the floor with him. With Sanders, if you had two anti-establishment figures, which I don't think there's historic precedent for in the states, at least not for like a good 80 years, I don't know what it would look like. I don't, I, I mean, I think it would be, I think the big loser there would be media.

• 55:07Michael Malice?

  And social media would really seize power because both of these figures, Trump and Sanders, are very, very social media driven and anti-establishment in every kind of sense. Hillary, you know, this, this lovely woman who Sanders endorsed a campaign for, just recently said, no one likes Bernie and he's never gotten anything done, very gratuitously. Well, that gives him an opportunity because that means he's not beholden to you guys. And he is in a position to be like, we tried it your way. Hillary lost to the worst person in history, an election she should have won. We have this jackass. Now we're trying it my way. And that's a very compelling message, I feel.

• 55:42Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. So you think that if, if there's no roadblocks put, put in place that you could actually see Bernie getting through?

• 55:49Michael Malice?

  It's conceivable, but I, I, I think the, this would be kind of the, I can't think of another election America's had that would have been this kind of messy, other than like William Jennings Bryan and McKinley in like 1896. Like it would be, oh, no, no, 68. 68, you had three parties. You had Richard Nixon, you had George Wallace, the southern racist figure, and then you had Hubert Humphrey from the Democrats, and they were rioting at the Democratic convention, and it was basically a close to a tie in the popular vote between Nixon and Humphrey, and Nixon was reviled by the Democrats understandably. It was a very, very, very dark election. This would be, I think, somewhat similar.

• 56:31Chris Williamson?

  It's like two, uh, south ends of a magnet, right?

• 56:34Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 56:35Chris Williamson?

  If you get that, and it's just, everything gets spun around.

• 56:37Michael Malice?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It would, it would be really, really horrific, in a good way. I love the carnage.

• 56:43Chris Williamson?

  If you were, if you were an Avenger, do you think you'd be Loki?

• 56:47Michael Malice?

  Well, Loki's not in The Avengers. He's an enemy. I'm a DC Comics person.

• 56:52Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 56:52Michael Malice?

  But I am very much a trickster figure. So yes, Loki, the Norse god, not Loki, the combo character.

• 56:57Chris Williamson?

  Got you, got you. Okay. Who's your favorite DC guy or girl?

• 57:01Michael Malice?

  Um, I'm a big, I, I was, no one's, I'm a hipster, so no one's gonna have heard of this, but I was a huge fan of the Legion of Superheroes. I have every issue ever. They took place in the 30th century, and there was a character there called Triplicate Girl. So you have Superboy, you have Supergirl, you have Saturn Girl who's telepathic, Cosmic Boy Magnet's lightning lad, and Triplicate Girl can just split into three people, and it's like, okay, this guy can juggle the sun, and it's like, okay, there's three chicks here. And it's just like, why, why are you here? Like, so there's, so there's triplets? Okay. So I love that. And one of the, then one of her bodies was destroyed, so she just became

• 57:40Michael Malice?

  Duo-Damsel. So it's like, okay, we have people here who can like change like heat and electricity and light, and then there's like twins. Okay.

• 57:51Chris Williamson?

  Twins who sometimes become Siamese twins.

• 57:53Michael Malice?

  Yeah. It's like, all right, like, I guess you can fight this like witch who can destroy the universe.

• 57:58Chris Williamson?

  Have you ever seen that Family Guy episode where they all get, they all get infected with, um, nuclear waste and Meg's?

• 58:06Chris Williamson?

  Power is that she can grow her fingernails really fast.

• 58:09Michael Malice?

  Yeah, yeah, of course. That was before they cancelled the show and brought it back.

• 58:12Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 58:13Michael Malice?

  Yeah, and they had the Dallas ending.

• 58:15Chris Williamson?

  Yes, yes, they did. Yeah.

• 58:17Michael Malice?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:18Chris Williamson?

  Fuck, man. Look, Michael, I've taken up enough of your day, man. Twitter's calling you. People want to come and spite fund, give you some money online. Where do they go? What do they do?

• 58:27Michael Malice?

  MichaelMalice.com/contribute. But I'm on Twitter, and if you're ever in the States, come and be on my show.

• 58:32Chris Williamson?

  Man, Brooklyn, right?

• 58:34Michael Malice?

  Yes, but we record in Manhattan.

• 58:36Chris Williamson?

  I have, every single day, there is another reason for me to come out. Every single day.

• 58:43Michael Malice?

  I would love to show you Brooklyn, and here's why. Because we don't have, like, reality hunks, like, with accents here.

• 58:52Chris Williamson?

  Do not parade me around the streets, Michael.

• 58:54Michael Malice?

  Well, I absolutely want to see what this would be like and what the reaction is. And I bet you there'd be some low-key hostility.

• 59:02Chris Williamson?

  I'm ready for it. I'm ready. Will you protect me?

• 59:05Michael Malice?

  No, but you can protect yourself. You know, go to the gym. You can handle it.

• 59:10Chris Williamson?

  Fantastic. Well, that'll do. Thanks, man. You know what to do. Like, share, and subscribe. If you've got any comments or feedback, leave it in the comments below, and we'll see you next time.