Inside Walmart’s biggest shake-up in years, w/ CEO John Furner

John Furner started working in a Walmart garden center 33 years ago. Now, as CEO, he’s leading one of America’s largest companies at a critical moment. He talks with host Jeff Berman about how the influential retailer is transforming its business in the age of AI. This conversation was recorded live as part of Masters of Scale Summit in October 2026 at the Presidio Theatre in San Francisco. Subscribe to the Masters of Scale weekly newsletter: https://mastersofscale.com/subscribe See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Jeff Berman?

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• 1:41Speaker 01

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• 2:10Speaker 02

  What I find most rewarding is when I go to a store or a distribution center and I meet somebody that perhaps has been in the United States a few years and learned English at Walmart and became a citizen. And they're now managing a $220 million business. It's extraordinary. I get to come back to my family and tell them I got to see the American dream in action today. In leadership, you can be frustrated when you get pushback, but it's not pushback. They're doing what we've asked them to do. Providing context, providing understanding, maintaining alignment is just a really critical part of landing change in a big organization.

• 2:45Speaker 02

  What's helped me is being a part of the company for the last 33 years. I started working in a garden center in Bentonville part-time. But as an average failed musician, I guess you could say, doesn't pay well.

• 2:59Jeff Berman?

  This is Masters of Scale. I'm Jeff Berman, your host. In today's episode, Walmart President and CEO John Furner joins me to discuss how the influential retail giant is evolving in the age of AI and what's coming next. This conversation took place live on stage as part of the Masters of Scale 2026 Summit. Let's dive in.

• 3:24Jeff Berman?

  John, when I think about a company the size of Walmart, I don't think remarkable speed. I think more aircraft carrier than speedboat. You've been in the job for eight months. Within what felt like days, you had overhauled your C-suite. You had integrated a historically siloed tech stack. You moved with incredible velocity. Why and how?

• 3:48Speaker 02

  First, thanks for having me. It's great to be here. The way I think about it, the way we think about it, is the best time to make changes is when you have momentum, when you have strength. A phrase that I think about a lot is the best time to fix the roof is when the sun is shining. And we have so many opportunities to look forward into this era. You've talked about it all morning. The era of intelligence, the era of AI, how the world's going to change. And we wanted to go into this period with the right people and the right roles. We have a great team of people, 2.2 million people around the world. And the leadership team that we have assembled, they're talented. They're dedicated to the mission of the company and they're action-oriented. I think about you said this morning, community, agency, and action.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  That really resonated with me and that's what we're trying to do. Our associates around the world, we have more in common than we have differences. I was in China last week, I'm in Mexico in a couple of weeks. And I find people working in the same way, trying to accomplish the same things. And what we're trying to do is ensure that the organization is positioned to take action. The world is sitting there to wait for us. Retail isn't going to wait for us. The customer is going to move. The customer is going to change. So we're trying to set ourselves up to ensure that over the next few years, we remain in a position of strength and hopefully position the company to be even stronger as the world continues to evolve.

• 5:05Jeff Berman?

  I mean, John, that all sounds great, but I've worked in a couple of very big organizations and they tend to be pretty resistant to fast change. New leadership comes in, there's a lot of people who are sort of like, well, I'll survive the new guy. He thinks he can do all this. He's like, and I know you've been at the company a long time and want to get into your journey there. But how did you bring your team along with you on that velocity of change?

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Well, we say, and a lot of companies say, the best ideas come from our people. That's true. We have great ideas from associates all over. Every week, we have a session on Friday where we invite about 500 of our top leaders. This is in the US, by the way, we do it in other markets, to give us feedback, give us ideas. We want to be great listeners. We want to be great learners. But change does happen, in many cases, has to happen from the top down. The bottom can't change everything on the way up. We can listen, but the leadership has to align. And we have to work on the big things together and ensure that the organization is coming along at pace. You mentioned that at times, things in big companies, of course, there are bureaucracies that are set up. There are departments, there are silos. Things are built to last a long time.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  And when you make changes, we made a big change yesterday with our membership programs. It took a lot of coordination and determining what we were going to do, how we were going to get there. And then in the middle, a lot of management ensured that we landed what we did yesterday. We brought together our membership proposition in Walmart Plus and Sam's Club Plus together. If you buy one, you get the other. And you can imagine there are a lot of reasons why you would and why you wouldn't. But ultimately, it's about ensuring that our customers, our members, the guests that come in to shop online or in stores, that they have access to the things that we've been able to provide for a long time. And it's a great time to do that again from a position of strength.

• 6:52Jeff Berman?

  What's been the hardest part about going fast?

• 6:54Speaker 02

  You have to recognize that our people, and in every organization, we have a lot of great people that were hired to do a job. And they have incentives, they have metrics, they have things that they're accountable to. And what's helped me is being a part of the company for the last 33 years. I started working in a garden center in Bentonville part-time. But as an average failed musician, I guess you could say, doesn't pay well. And in college, I needed a make-ins me. And having the opportunity to have been in a number of roles in the United States, in Sam's Club, Walmart US, I lived in China for a few years. I spent some time in Mexico. It does reinforce that there's a need for empathy and there's a need to understand what people on the frontline are going through,

• 7:38Speaker 02

  what executives are going through, the different things they're trying to work through. It's a big, complex world. And the people we have in the organization, we've asked them to do something. In leadership, you can be frustrated when you get pushback, but it's not pushback. They're doing what we've asked them to do. So, you know, providing context, providing understanding, maintaining alignment is just a really critical part of landing change in a big organization.

• 8:00Jeff Berman?

  You may have heard something about this big AI thing that's going on in the world.

• 8:04Speaker 02

  I have.

• 8:04Jeff Berman?

  A little bit about that. I don't think we necessarily think about Walmart as a tech-forward company, notwithstanding your size and everything that you do from a technological perspective. What have you done eight months in the job to reorient the company for this AI era?

• 8:19Speaker 02

  Well, what's great about the company is we have a strong purpose that our founder left us with, to save people money, help people live better. That's been true for a long time. And for years, Jeff, if you had asked me, can you tell me about what it's like being a part of Walmart? What does Walmart do? I think my response would have been, well, how much time do you have? Because it's big, it's complex. And we had to really tighten down how we describe the company. And what we landed on it, I love the way it came out. It's people-led, tech-powered, and omnichannel retail. Omnichannel retail, just a representation of, we want to be really flexible to serve customers however they want to be served, at the counter, at the curb, at their home, in their refrigerator. And tech-powered is important.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  We think of technology as an enabler of making our people be the most successful they can be in the shortest amount of time. And that goes back all the way to the 70s and the 80s. We're early adopters of a lot of technology in retail. And it's a part of what we've done for a long time. And AI, I know for us, it's an enabler. It enables customers to tell us in plain English. You know, we have customers that express their intent and we try to understand the context of what they're asking in their native language. And we can today with technology, give back solutions that feel magical in some ways. And it may be as simple as, what is it for dinner tonight? But you know, if you think about the complexity of a customer saying, I need dinner tonight.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  I want it to be tacos, there are four of us, it needs to be gluten-free. These things that they're telling you, it is complicated. Then when you compare that to a catalog with, say, a billion items in it, and knowing where the inventory is and the pricing and having it to them in 25 minutes. If you'd asked me as a kid growing up in Arkansas, could I push a button on the device and 25 minutes later, I have a fresh Roma tomato in my refrigerator? I don't think I would have said yes. Well, we can do those things. And so we're trying to step back and take a very human-led, human-centered approach to this and build tools at the pace that we need to, that not only understands where the customer's headed, where the world is headed. A lot of times, we say loyalty in retail is the absence of something better.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  And so we have to be the organization that is always thinking about how we get to better and best for them. And this is a time that, you know, I've heard it this morning, it's a great time to be alive. It's a great time to be in business because we can do things that we've dreamt of for a long time and it's real now.

• 10:41Jeff Berman?

  It doesn't hurt to have Sarah Fryer on your board also, helping steer. John, you mentioned at the press of a button. And that's how those of us here for the last 20 years plus, we've been thinking about it. But now with the rise of muse and insight and all these other personal agents say nothing what people build for themselves, it's not just going to be at the press of a button. It's going to be at the initiation of an agent. How is Walmart thinking about that?

• 11:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a great question. We're thinking about the connection from the screen to the physical world. And I don't want to step past understanding how we listen to the 275 million or so customers we serve every week and understand them at the individual level, think about what it is they're trying to accomplish, and then bringing it to life. The second half of that is something that we feel is a unique opportunity for us. We have 2.2 million people around the world who wake up every day, they come in, they try to serve. And if we can remove friction for them, if we can give them the information that they need in their palm, if we can somehow get to them the best next action that they can take to make their operating unit, their team, more successful, and how that all comes

• 11:51Speaker 02

  together is pretty unique, all the way to aggregating deliveries and trying to do this in a way that respects the fact that we're proud of being an everyday low-cost operator, that we're trying to enable everyday low prices, and we need to move faster. That's where we started. And so, you know, one of the things that we're doing over the next few weeks, the coming weeks, is we'll be launching agent profiles. So as a customer, whether it's through your agent or our agent, you can delegate authority, what the agent can buy or the spending limit. What we're trying to do, and it's back to what you said, within communities, we want to create agency, not only for industry and everyone in this room, but for our customers. They want to remain in control. Our associates want to

• 12:33Speaker 02

  remain in control. And so, if we can help customers have a profile, an account that we recognize, yes, it's Jeff, but it's an agent shopping on behalf of Jeff, and Jeff has asked that we keep spending limits to a certain amount or times a day. It's like having a family member that you've given your credit card to. There may be limits for that. I know my kids in college, they have a card, it has a limit that's different than mine. We keep control of those things. And around the 20th of the month, I get a phone call, "Hey Dad," and you know exactly where it's going. But we want to make sure that your agent, through the right protocol, talking to Walmart, can have the same experience that you would have. And we would understand what it is you're trying to accomplish, what you're trying to buy. And then we want to bring together the best of all of our assets

• 13:17Speaker 02

  to be the most flexible that we can be for whatever it is that's going on in your life. So we're excited about that. It's early in the journey. I think we're all learning. It's hard to say where the world will be in a year or two, but we're trying to position our teams and our business in a way that wherever the world is going, back to what I said before, we can get to where the customer wants to go, and we can meet them in their community.

• 13:41Jeff Berman?

  And that's a big announcement and a big step forward for Walmart, for your customers. And, you know, I've got two kids in college as well, and I can see the benefit for me there, and I appreciate it. At the same time, Rabbi Sharon Brous will be on our stage later in the summit. She wrote a remarkable book a couple of years ago called The Amen Effect, The Amen Effect. There's an anecdote in the book about going to a grocery store and starting to head to the self-checkout line and seeing the person standing at the cash register, couple aisles over, just waiting to help someone and no one there. And she makes the choice to go over and engage with the human being, and makes a point of making eye contact and engaging and having a meaningful human interaction. We have a monster loneliness

• 14:22Jeff Berman?

  crisis in this country. We talk to each other less and less face to face. We know what happens when we engage online or we don't engage at all. How do you think about balancing the opportunity and responsibility to create the best possible shopping experience and the range of options for customers with Walmart as such a powerful gathering place for so many Americans?

• 14:43Speaker 02

  It's a great question. Earlier, I heard you say something about big institutions, or do you trust big or not? What I hear so many times in the markets all over the world, when you talk to customers, regardless of what they think of big institutions or even us, what they typically come back to, regardless of their opinion, is, "I really like my local store manager. I like my pharmacist." In many cases, the healthcare professional that customers see most in their lifetime will be their pharmacist, and they feel a sense of personal connection. A lot of people decide to go into physical shopping locations, of all ages, by the way. It's interesting, I'm finding my daughters in college and their friends, they enjoy physical shopping, but there are times when they just want you to

• 15:26Speaker 02

  do that, take care of things for them. So the flexibility matters. But the connection does matter. And with our associate group, we bring managers in three weeks a month, and we want them to know the company. But more importantly, we want them to know the people they're working with in the organization they're serving and what it's on behalf of. And the personal connection, it really matters. I'll give you another example. And providing people, associates, with tools where they can create their own destiny has been really rewarding in the last years. In Canada earlier this year, and I met a forklift driver named Michael, who had basically written a script for himself on a Vibe platform that we put to work last December. And he told me he's saving 15 minutes to 18 minutes per day, per shift. You're going to think about, well, that's great. But if you save 20 minutes

• 16:10Speaker 02

  a day, five days a week, every 10 years, you pick up a year of work. And so, he was looking at us a way that he could be more productive to help his team. But giving people tools is wonderful, or he can take the 15 to 20 minutes a day, and we can work together. We're a very in-person business. We're in the office. We make decisions quickly. You know, back to your first question, one of the ways that we do try to make sure that we make decisions is we have to know each other. We have to trust each other. Innovation happens at the speed of trust, and trust forms at the individual level, and then it's extended to the team level. And it's hard to trust people and to know people if you've only seen them as a box on a screen. So things like this, getting people together, I find really, really valuable.

• 16:50Jeff Berman?

  And in terms of the customer experience, I mean, do you actively think about Walmart as a third place after home and decreasingly, but still work as one and two? And creating an even warmer in-person experience for your customers, is that part of how you balance this out?

• 17:06Speaker 02

  We do. And it is a balance. Obviously, we're trying to provide people more tools so that they can be more productive. I remember when I started, some of the things that we would consider very basic took weeks to learn. And obviously, we want to try to put them in a position where they can get to proficiency quickly, but they need to know each other. They're on a team, and they're in it together. And things happen in the world and society, and some of our teams, they go through things together that frankly, I never went through as a store manager. When I was managing stores, and it was in North Carolina, I had a few things to do, which is a big store, it's a lot to in-person. But these managers and teams, they're managing any commerce business, they are managing a delivery station, they're managing a picking and stocking operation, they're managing a supercenter, they're doing

• 17:48Speaker 02

  all of it at once. And the world's different. You know, people have different ways to talk to them, express opinions or provide feedback. We always say feedback is a gift. But they're receiving so many things incoming in different ways. They really have to know each other, trust each other, and rely on each other, and know that our job in the home office is to support them. And I was in the Sam's Club office yesterday when we made the membership announcement. And if you walk up to the building, it's called Club Support. It's not the home office. It's designed to support the clubs and the membership clubs where the members interact with our associates and our team. So we provide a big support role for all of our people.

• 18:33Jeff Berman?

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• 19:17Jeff Berman?

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• 20:29Jeff Berman?

  You referenced starting at Walmart as an hourly wage worker, trying to pay some bills when the guitar playing wasn't quite cutting it from the income perspective. I have to imagine, especially as a leader who talks about leading with empathy, which, let's be candid, is a rare thing these days, and I'm grateful that you do. You must have a special understanding of, you've got 1.6 million employees in the US, 92-ish percent of whom are hourly wage, right? You must have a special understanding of what they're struggling with right now. The tension between continuing to provide low-cost goods to Americans, affordable goods to Americans as we face an affordability crisis, with also making sure that your people have the opportunity to live meaningful lives and earn a living wage, it seems like it's

• 21:14Jeff Berman?

  kind of at the core of what you're doing. How do you think about that?

• 21:18Speaker 02

  We do think, and we know over the last 10 or so years, from early investments, that early being 2015, that we made big investments in wages, that you can provide opportunity, you can invest in the customer experience, and return to shareholders all at the same time. And I'm really proud of the role that the leadership teams in the company has played, not only deciding that, but demonstrating that it's possible. So for our associates, what I find most rewarding is when I go to a store or a distribution center, and I meet somebody that perhaps has been in the United States a few years, and learned English at Walmart, and became a citizen, and they're now managing a $220 million business. It's extraordinary. I get to come back to my family and tell them, I got to see the American

• 22:02Speaker 02

  dream in action today. Those associates, you know, so many of them, about 80,000, have taken certifications in AI. Our first to complete the certification is a 40-year associate named Darlene, who signed up early, took it, and she was the first to get the certificate. Being in a position where you can decide to go to college at Walmart, and Walmart pays for your entire degree is fantastic. I was with a store manager named Josh in Phoenix a couple of weeks ago. We've known each other five or six years, and he wanted to show me the photo of graduating from Purdue as a live better university student while managing the store in Phoenix. And those are the kind of opportunities that are real. They make a difference. And whether you start your career at Walmart and move

• 22:45Speaker 02

  on, you take the middle of your career, the end of your career, or it's like me, your entire career, we want you to have a great experience. And I think today, we have about 85, 86 CEOs in the US that were Walmart associates at one point, over 100 over time. So we provide, I think, what we could describe as our great opportunities to start with a good job and have a great career. And, you know, back to music, my dad was with Walmart, so of course I was never gonna do what my dad did. And I was a creative, and I went there for the summer and fell in love with it. So turns out dad was right. Hard to admit sometimes.

• 23:18Jeff Berman?

  And you still play guitar?

• 23:19Speaker 02

  Still play guitar.

• 23:20Jeff Berman?

  John, I spent the first decade of my career in public service, and when I came into the private sector, I had to ask all the dumb questions, and read all the books, and, you know, with the rise of YouTube, get to watch and learn. And one of the things that I was struck by is 50-something years ago, this guy Milton Friedman wrote this thing, and all of a sudden, shareholder supremacy, and we don't think about our stakeholders on the same levels as our shareholders. 30 years on a gold watch feels like it's dead. You are an example, not of that, not that we're putting you out with a gold watch anytime soon. What I'm hearing you say is, we can win and win. We can win for our shareholders and win for our stakeholders. Is that how you think about it? And if so, how do we get other CEOs to think more that way?

• 24:04Speaker 02

  Well, I think it starts with having a long-term perspective. Our company is 64 years old, and the sixth person to be in this position, and I won't be in it forever. And there's a time where I can make a contribution, and when I'm gone, what would I hope for is that the company is better positioned when I'm gone than the day I got it. It was positioned well when I started in this role. But important to remember, it's about opportunity. 75% of our managers started as hourly associates, just like I did, my predecessor did. And anything is possible at Walmart. We have physicians, we have attorneys, we have pilots, we have management associates, logistics associates. If you can think of it or dream of it, you can do it in our environment. And we're trying to create an environment where

• 24:48Speaker 02

  every associate feels empowered to help us build a future. We have the tools today where everyone can be a builder. I believe that that's true. And we've democratized technologies in ways that we may not have even thought possible before 2022. But those things are real. And we start from the idea that we operate in the US in 5,600 communities, over 12,000 communities around the world, but the footprint is much larger than the retail markets we operate in. We have to think about suppliers, entrepreneurs, who have opportunities to make and manufacture. How do they want to connect as a new marketplace seller somewhere in the world to groups of customers that could be inspired to buy their product and build with us? We have a long history of building businesses with other

• 25:31Speaker 02

  businesses, and I think there is absolutely a path for us all to work together and do things we didn't think were possible, and create real opportunities for real people all over the world.

• 25:42Jeff Berman?

  And I'm so grateful you think that way. You go to Allen and Company, you go to the other gatherings where the grand poobas are, who, you know, run other massive companies. I'm not confident that they're thinking the same way. What can we say to them? What can you do? What can other CEOs do? What can the folks in this room do to help them think that same way about their businesses?

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Well, it's something I said earlier, people-led, tech-powered. I love the phrase, I love the order, and I love our mission. I also love our core values. And my role is to ensure that our core values, we adhere to those, we build to those, and those don't change over time. Now, what we do, how we deliver, that can all change, and it should change. But respecting individuals, ensuring that we're striving to be excellent, operating with integrity, those are things that service to others. Those are the four. Those should not change. And my job every day is to wake up and serve over a quarter billion customers around the world, suppliers around the world, and ensure that our people are in the very best position that they can be to learn, to grow, and adapt. We're a learning organization.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  And I think, I've heard it all morning, really like we started, community, provide agency, and ensure that that's real on our behalf as a business and our people, and then take action. This is ours to change, and it's ours to shape. And again, where we started, organizations, they do what they do, and it takes leadership teams to decide to make meaningful changes for the long term.

• 27:07Jeff Berman?

  Well, let's go make meaningful change. John Furner, thank you.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 27:15Jeff Berman?

  Thanks again to John Furner for joining us at the 2026 Masters of Scale Summit. This conversation was recorded live onstage in San Francisco at the iconic Presidio Theater. I'm Jeff Berman. Thanks for listening.

• 27:36Jeff Berman?

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• 28:10Speaker 03

  Hey, listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show, because every Friday, we release a second Rapid Response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely, from Ford CEO to NASA's administrator, to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find. Just search Rapid Response wherever you listen to podcasts, and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there.

• 28:46Speaker 04

  Humans will never be more intelligent than AI.

• 28:50Speaker 05

  There's gonna be two types of companies. Those are great at AI, and those that went out of business because they weren't.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  How do we build a future that is human-centered?

• 29:00Speaker 06

  I'm Rana Elkhayubi, and on my podcast, Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future, and we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find Pioneers of AI wherever you tune in.

• 29:30Jeff Berman?

  Masters of Scale is a Wait What original. Our executive producer is Eve Trow. Senior supervising producer is Tricia Bobita. Associate producer is Masha Makatenina. Video editor is M.G. Frederick. Senior talent executive is Stephanie Stern. Mixing and mastering by the audio boys themselves, Aaron Bestinelli and Brian Pugh, with original music by the remarkable Ryan Holiday. Visit mastersofscale.com to find the transcript for this episode and to subscribe to our newsletter, and be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel.