What Eric Learned Through 100 ABM Calls

In episode #2909, Eric Siu and Neil Patel discuss the current state of Account-Based Marketing (ABM), the challenges faced by companies in this space, the integration of AI in business processes and the evolving landscape of marketing strategies, including the impact of social media platforms like TikTok. Don’t forget to help us grow by subscribing and liking on YouTube! Check out more of Eric’s content (Leveling UP YT) and Neil’s videos (Neil Patel YT) TIME-STAMPED SHOW NOTES: (00:00) Exploring the ABM Landscape (09:46) The Role of AI in Business (17:03) The Thank You Trump Strategy (19:56) That’s it for today! Don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe! Go to https://www.marketingschool.io to learn more! Leave Some Feedback: What should we talk about next? Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please leave a short review. Connect with Us: Single Grain << Eric’s ad agency NP Digital << Neil’s ad agency X @neilpatel X @ericosiu

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:34Speaker 01

  Your ABM company, you have a topic in here that you did 100 calls. What did you learn?

• 0:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I'll give a couple of things. So this is Carrot, which allows you to run personalized, scalable LinkedIn ads. And what's interesting to me is, I would say 90% of the calls, and most of these are mid-market to enterprise companies. They're like, we really want to get going on ABM this year. I'm like, so you guys have been doing anything for... Yeah, we haven't been doing it. It's like, so their budgets, they're like, yeah, we're planning to ramp it up. But there just hasn't been like a good solution out there for ABM. I'm like, but don't you guys pay for some of these solutions out there? You know, some of these are like 120 grand a year, a platform fee, plus you have to pay the ad spend on top of it. So it's pretty significant, right? And they're just like, everything sucks there. So one is, everyone's starting, it seems like almost everyone's starting ABM motion this year, right? It's like new.

• 1:23Speaker 00

  The second thing is, most ABM companies from what we've seen suck, because everyone complains about all the ABM software out there. And so, and then a lot of the things that they want, it's pretty easy for us to build in, right? So we're using a lot of these sales calls, my CTO is on the call as well, we're using them as customer development calls too. And so if people start to say the same thing multiple times, that's signal for us, and that helps us prioritize our product roadmap. I would say, the fourth thing is, people want to move very, they want to move very quickly. It's, so when you have something that isn't quite out there, people are just like, dude, can we get started like yesterday? And it's, it's different than the agency type, and you know, you've had software before too, you know the different types.

• 2:05Speaker 00

  Like, usually the software that like, it'll kind of pull you with it, but with agency, you have to kind of do this dog and Show.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, software is also easier for people to get on boarded with than an agency.

• 2:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  And it's substantially cheaper. So there's less hoops to go through internally.

• 2:19Speaker 00

  And a lot of people ask for free trials, right? Especially, you know, um, yeah, the homies. Um, so they'll ask for free.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  He's not saying homies. He's actually saying, uh, different. Some people just ask for free trials and they expect it. And they expect him to make changes to their product without paying for it.

• 2:35Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, exactly. And so what we say is, hey, look, no, we're not doing that. Um, but we're doing a paid pilot. So you pay, you know, uh, three grand for 90 days or whatever. And then we expect you, you're going to do a shared slack with us. We're going to white glove you in and then, um, that's what happens. And so that way you have some skin in the game and they have some skin in the game. And they take you seriously because you and I both know when we receive things for free, we don't really use it. And when we get things, when we give things for free, people don't respect it.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Speaking of the white glove service, there was that email company, I think it was called Superhuman.

• 3:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  That's trying to do the white glove service. You had to get on the phone and they teach you how to use it.

• 3:09Speaker 00

  I use Superhuman.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  You still use it?

• 3:11Speaker 00

  Yannick pays for it.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  They made me put in a credit card right then and there, and I canceled it right away. I'm like, this is not that helpful.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Do you actually like it?

• 3:23Speaker 00

  White gloving?

• 3:23Speaker 01

  No, Superhuman.

• 3:25Speaker 00

  I love it. Uh, so I, I hated it because Yannick kept telling me how much he loves it. So you know how like, if I keep telling you to use something, you're like, no, I don't want to use it. Right? So I was like that. Um, but it's, it's actually made me faster at email. Yeah. But you're already pretty fast with it anyway.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm already pretty fast at email.

• 3:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Uh, out of all the points you made, the only one I would say, cause I know quite a few ABM companies, um, people that do ABM and software companies in this space. I would say the only point that is skewed for you is your point number one, where a lot of people are getting to ABM this year. Is because you got into created an ABM software, you're getting tons of inquiries, but the market's massive. And from everyone I know who has ABM companies that are like large, the quantity of people that are jumping on the ABM bandwagon for corporations, isn't that big, but you're spot on with something in which most people are not happy with the solutions they're using.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  They're expensive and they're not getting results. And that's why I think you're getting, you know, just a shitload of inquiries because LinkedIn is one of the best places to go. And you solved a problem that LinkedIn didn't give people.

• 4:32Speaker 00

  Well, here's the thing. So. A lot of these companies, they're already paying for like the, the big, the big ones out there, right? So they, they are, they are doing ABM, but they're also not doing ABM.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Because it's not working that well.

• 4:44Speaker 00

  So they're, they're looking for a solution desperately to like solve their ABM problems and, and, and that's all it is. So, so yeah. Um, but I, I think more than anything, it's if you're going to build software, just understand that you're constantly doing customer development and you can't build in a vacuum. Because if you think you know all the features, you're already screwed.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Watch this everyone. So Eric, out of these hundred calls, how many of them were you on?

• 5:07Speaker 00

  Um, all of them.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 5:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  So the point I'm making here is if you really want to do well, you need to get involved yourself, listen, learn and go and fix.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. Look, that, by the way, any business is like that. You're constantly just solving problems. And if you get it right, you've probably hit lightning in a bottle, but it's also not fun if you get it right immediately. So.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  No, but I do prefer getting it right. Like we're running a lot of Facebook ads right now.

• 5:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh, how's that going?

• 5:32Speaker 01

  It's going okay. It's not converting as well as we want.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  Um, we have some technical issues that we just had to go through. Like it's not tracking our, uh, you know, if a lead turns into a call, if the call is qualified, then we send another proposal. So it's not, the data's not passing it in, although the CRMs and everything are saying they are passing it in. So we're just troubleshooting, but that should be solved really quickly. Uh, and I think the reason it's not tracking really well is because we use this weird concoction of multiple solutions to get what we want done. Uh, but again, I don't think this will be a problem after the next few days. And, you know, Mike and I started going through all the problems. So we're like, okay.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Our call per discovery, our, our price per discovery call is around $389, what I was told this morning, which is still too high. Um, I think we can get into the lower hundreds.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  That way, how much?

• 6:26Speaker 01

  $389 right now.

• 6:27Speaker 00

  Per lead?

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Per call.

• 6:29Speaker 00

  Per call. Okay.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Okay. Uh, and we disqualify a lot of people before our call.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  That's actually pretty good.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you know, it's, it's, the numbers aren't panning out, uh, well enough right now. And when we looked at it, the first thing that Mike and I did, my co-founder Mike, he's like, all right, let me just go listen to all the calls. So he starts listening to the calls, he's like, you're doing this wrong, you're doing this wrong. He's like, let's fix this. He'll get on the phone with all of them and be like, here's what I want you to do. So that should start improving some of the numbers. And we have a pretty fine tuned sales team, but yet, you know, as I mentioned, the purpose of this is Eric still gets involved. Mike and I still get involved. Even if you hire amazing people, sometimes you're better at some things than other people are, and they're better at you than at some things than you maybe, right? So it counterbalances each other and you need to just be involved.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  And then I started getting, I had Solo get involved in the texting. So we're going to start texting people that aren't booking a call. So that should start helping improving our numbers. And then I started getting involved in the creatives.

• 7:31Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  And I was just like, you know, you guys are running creatives the wrong way. We're, we're recording a script. It was generic. They would take some of our most popular content on the social web and use that. And I was like, all right, what are their main industries? And I'm like, let me go record an ad for every single one of them. And we ended up doing that a few weeks ago for three industries to just keep it simple. Ecom, legal and home services. They're not our biggest, but you know, we started with them because we thought targeting would be pretty great. Legal didn't work out too much. The cost was just too high. We don't think we can end up making it work in the long run. But home services and ecom potentially.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  And what I started doing is testing quite a few different hooks than body copy and then CTAs. And then in the same ads, they're in different compartments. So I'll test out like four or five hooks and run them with four or five different bodies and four or five CTAs. And Facebook can help you automatically do this. You don't actually have to go.

• 8:33Speaker 00

  So three times, four times, five.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  And then I was like, all right, now that we know that worked, scale it out to 10 industries. And then I also added in social proof. And I made sure the script works where I can add the social proof at the top, right after the hook, or I can add it at the bottom, right before the CTA.

• 8:53Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Right? So then we're going through all of this. And then we will start testing landing pages. Cause to keep things simple, I told the team, I'm like, dude, just run it through Facebook lead forms. It's always cheaper, but the quality of the leads is always worse. Every marketer knows that versus sending them to your landing page. But the reason I wanted that is it was just quicker versus having my team go crank out 10, 12 different landing pages. And then having to test those landing pages. I just wanted to figure out what's working. Cause Eric and I are in a industry where there's not tons of volume. It's a deal's worth a lot, but it's not like you're getting a thousand leads a day. So it takes a while to test.

• 9:34Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  So it's like, let's just keep it simple and use Facebook's lead forms and test all the other elements. And once you get it right, which I think will crack the rest within the next two weeks to a month. Then I'll go into testing landing pages and then moving it all to our site. The leads will be more expensive, but I bet you the quality of the lead will be way better.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  The good news about Carrot, it's coming out with one-to-one personalized landing pages and you could do meta in Google.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  All right.

• 9:59Speaker 00

  I'll hook you up.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  All right.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. So that, what Neil's mentioning, by the way, and I have a question for you. You mentioned the scripting, right? I personally hate scripts, but so when you're doing a script, are you reading off the teleprompter?

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Yes, I am.

• 10:14Speaker 00

  You do that here, huh?

• 10:16Speaker 01

  I do that here.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  So someone comes up and sets it up for you and you're recording.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  And I take them to lunch after.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  Oh, that's a good deal.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  We have a team of three that come and do it. One manages the teleprompter, one is managing the camera.

• 10:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  The other person is there, they can also give ideas and stuff and help out and rotate.

• 10:30Speaker 00

  Did you grow to love the teleprompter?

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Did I what?

• 10:33Speaker 00

  Did you, I hate the tele, no, no, I don't hate it, but I found it annoying. Do you, do you love it now?

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Dude, it's so much faster.

• 10:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  I use teleprompters for everything.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  Now, you've been doing it for a couple of years now.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't use it for short form videos.

• 10:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  It's too much work for short.

• 10:49Speaker 00

  I've seen you use it in short form videos. I can tell when you're reading off the teleprompter.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  Used to use it for short form videos.

• 10:54Speaker 00

  Long before, yeah.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Uh, cause all I was doing is I was just taking my X posts and then putting them on a teleprompter and recording them line for line.

• 11:00Speaker 00

  I could tell you were reading.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it worked quite well. Um, when it stopped working, I stopped using the teleprompter. I just talked because it was quicker and easier than people writing stuff out. When it's a teleprompter and I wrote the copy, it's easy for me. If someone else writes the copy and then puts it on the teleprompter, I can't do it as well because it's just not in my verbiage. It doesn't flow the way I would talk.

• 11:23Speaker 00

  Feel like you.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  It doesn't feel like.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  Which is why I hate when other people write the script for me. So then I just ignore the script.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. So then the other thing we use a teleprompter is for our long form videos. So I just finished a shoot. We're going to start producing more long form videos. Uh, the teleprompter is amazing for hooks. Um, and then just main points to talk about, like go into this and there'll just be a bullet and I'll just riff.

• 11:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  And it's just great because it keeps me on track and then the team will figure out where to edit and adjust.

• 11:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  But it makes the experience quicker for me.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Versus, uh, shooting, you know, all on my own. And to give you an idea, you know who I'm working with for the long form videos. They were telling me, oh, you need five to six hours of studio time. And I was like, really? Five to six hours? It can't be. And I got it all done in no joke, three hours on my first run. I'm like, yeah, I did a lot of things inefficient. I think I can get it done in like, two will be hard. I think I get it into two to two and a half. I think closer to two and a half, no problem. And the three hours included a lunch break.

• 12:32Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 12:35Speaker 00

  Are you making Y Tam videos now?

• 12:37Speaker 01

  The what?

• 12:37Speaker 00

  Are you making Y Tam videos now?

• 12:39Speaker 01

  I'm making Y Tam videos. I don't think it's gonna produce ROI. The whole purpose of Y Tam videos is experiment of is does a recognition decrease the cost for our Facebook ads? That's really only it.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  And how long are you gonna run that experiment for? Two months, three months? Probably three months. It's gotta be at least three months.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Uh, a year.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  You're type to give a quick, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  A year.

• 13:03Speaker 00

  A year's good.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  A year, we'll do it for 2025. It's not that expensive.

• 13:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Depends what you consider expensive, but call it a few hundred thousand bucks.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  So we already earmarked it in our, uh, budget and we're just like, we don't think we're gonna get enough results in the short run. I don't think it's actually gonna work that well in the United States, being quite frank. The bet here is if we do it and we have our team, you know, pop it through Hey Jen, and then we do it from a global aspect. We think where I don't have as much brand affinity, EX, Italy, Germany, places like that.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  We think it's gonna help more there. Well, we don't think it's gonna really help in the United States. That's the play.

• 13:42Speaker 00

  We'll see. I mean, this is recorded. We'll see in a year.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll find out in a year. I think we'll know within six months.

• 13:48Speaker 00

  I think, yeah, maybe even a little sooner.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  We'll see.

• 13:51Speaker 02

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• 14:26Speaker 01

  Um, all right. Pick one. All right, let's go with...

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Um, the age of augmented introvert, the age of a

• 14:41Speaker 00

  I'll do it, I'll do it. The age of the augmented introvert has arrived. So it's, it's, it's a little bit of word soup. So

• 14:50Speaker 00

  this guy, um, Dave Shapiro tweeted this. He basically said, look, AI isn't just working alongside us 24/7, never tiring.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  Never complaining when we want to dive deep into the technical weeds at 3am. So let me, wait, hold on. Let me, let me, let's go, let's rewind real quick.

• 15:10Speaker 00

  Ah, okay, okay, okay, okay. Sorry, guys. So I have this meme over here. Have you seen this meme before, Neil?

• 15:16Speaker 01

  No, but I'm, I pulled up the Twitter link at the same time.

• 15:19Speaker 00

  Okay. So you have, the first meme is there's a boss and he's directing people. He's getting pulled on a little um, trolley by these humans, right? That's the old way of working. I think a leader is someone that's leading in the front. He's pulling with them, right? And then you have an introvert who just pulls by himself. And then, then you have introvert with AI that's pulling like three carts by himself, right? So what that means, what this basically is talking about is the, you think about leverage. Okay. If you and I had 50,000 agents working for us right now, and they can do everything a human can do, are we going to just, just produce a lot more?

• 15:54Speaker 01

  I believe we will. And I would actually adjust this meme and my last one would, I would still have introvert with AI, but my last one would be AI with introvert and then you have a robot carrying the carts with the human on top.

• 16:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. And so here's the thing, right? I, I think, as I mentioned earlier, so machines will automate repetitive things, but human creativity is going to be at a premium. Entrepreneurs are the most creative people in the world and Neil and I were creative in different ways, but there is no shortage of things that we want to do. And we're getting to a point now, people are like, oh my God, artificial general intelligence is coming out today. OpenAI just announced operators, right? And you and I pay for the $200 a month version. So we're going to have basic versions of agents. And everyone like, oh, 2025 is the year of the agents. And so I just think the A, the age of the AI introvert is coming out. And that really means this bodes well for entrepreneurs because all we want to do is create because we're so bored. And then when we're, okay. You think about what Jensen Huang said, right?

• 16:52Speaker 00

  All he does is work. When he's not working, he thinks about work. When he goes on vacation, he's watching his kid, he thinks about work. All he does is work, right? And we have something that's wrong with us, sure, but like is genuinely what we enjoy doing.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  I don't think about work that much.

• 17:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, you do.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  I don't have any, well, work is my only hobby in life.

• 17:11Speaker 00

  And your family, work and your family.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. So that's a hesitant, yeah.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  No, no, no, you're spot on, but even when I'm with family, I still think about work.

• 17:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then maybe even like, by the way, when I think about my family or certain things, like it ties in back with work somehow, right?

• 17:29Speaker 01

  I'm really lucky in which I can do, you may be able to do it too, but I can do two things at once. And specifically this two things at once, when someone's talking to me, I can doze off and think about work and I usually can recite exactly what they said back. So it sounds like I'm paying attention.

• 17:44Speaker 00

  But he's really, so Neil is really good. He used to leave the TV on all the time with the movie and he actually knows what's going on in the movie as he's working. Yeah. Which I still don't know why you do, but.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  I need it. I work better with CNBC in the background than not having.

• 17:58Speaker 00

  That's different. You do it with a movie on and you still know the details from the movie.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  It's, it's a very unique, useless skill.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. By the way, we, we should talk about this one for fun. Do you know about the thank you, President Trump strategy?

• 18:12Speaker 01

  No, what it, well, first off, what is the thank you, President Trump? And then what's the strategy?

• 18:17Speaker 00

  So the thank you Trump strategy is when you look at, when TikTok was restored, what was the message that was posted? It was, thank you, President Trump for getting TikTok restored. Okay. That was the, the message. Does like 170 million people in the US got that? When the, the deal was brokered between Israel and Gaza, right? The Biden administration tried to take, take, take credit for it. But the next day, the Israeli Ministry of Defense was like, they tweeted, thank you so much, President Trump for your help, right? So I'm pretty sure he's in the backend saying, hey, thank you, say thank you, say thank you. Cause he knows they'll help him. It's just like when he was on Rogan, he was on air asking Rogan. He's like, hey, can you just endorse me? And so he knows.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  He asked on the, I didn't watch the whole three hours or however long it was.

• 19:04Speaker 00

  He asked on air, yeah.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  And he said, he said, will you endorse me?

• 19:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  And Rogan said.

• 19:09Speaker 00

  I, I think it was a non-response at the time, but eventually it became like Rogan was on, on, I think he was at one of the, the rallies and like publicly endorsed him. So I'm pretty sure he knows the valley of getting that thank you. And so to get TikTok and Israel to thank you, to say thank you like that, I know you would get hundreds of millions of impressions. Pretty, pretty good move.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Did you see what's happening with TikTok phones, iPhones?

• 19:34Speaker 00

  No, what's going on?

• 19:35Speaker 01

  They're selling for up to $10,000.

• 19:36Speaker 00

  Why?

• 19:37Speaker 01

  If you have an Apple phone, you know TikTok was pulled for a day, right? Or a day, day and a half, something like that. And then now it's restored. So you can use TikTok if you have an Apple phone. The last I checked, if you have an Apple phone, you can't go into the App Store and download TikTok. So if you have TikTok already installed, people are willing to buy your phone for an arm and a leg.

• 19:57Speaker 00

  That's insane, but it's back now, right?

• 19:59Speaker 01

  But not in the App Store when you want to go search on Apple to go download the app. Now, Apple didn't delete the TikTok app from our phones because I'm assuming you have TikTok on there. It's still there.

• 20:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  If you had TikTok, or if you didn't have TikTok, and even though it's restored in the US, you can't go to the Apple App Store and download it. So your only solution is go for, I think the only solution, there probably is something else. But for most people, they're like, who has a phone that already has TikTok installed? I'll buy you, I'll buy the phone.

• 20:26Speaker 00

  Sell your phone for a million dollars?

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Yes, I would.

• 20:30Speaker 00

  Hundred thousand.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Yes, I would.

• 20:32Speaker 00

  10,000.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Yes, I would.

• 20:34Speaker 00

  Why don't you sell it then?

• 20:37Speaker 01

  Uh, I don't think I can get 10,000 anymore for it.

• 20:40Speaker 00

  Okay, guys.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  It's been dying down.

• 20:42Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. All right.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Because you had to keep in mind, I don't log into TikTok. My team does it for me. So I don't need it. I would, of course, erase my password.

• 20:48Speaker 00

  I don't really use TikTok either. I think we're just because we're older.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, I don't really use any of the social apps.

• 20:54Speaker 00

  You don't?

• 20:54Speaker 01

  No.

• 20:55Speaker 00

  Sometimes you read my IG stories.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Uh, yes, but sometimes my team's reading your IG stories.

• 21:00Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. Stalkers.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Stalkers.

• 21:03Speaker 00

  Uh huh. All right. So that is it for today, guys. Go to marketingschool.io slash agency to learn more about the Agency Owners Association. And that's the group where you're going to see our churn numbers get even better. Goodbye.