How to thrive, not just survive in winter

Winter is back. The days are shorter, the cold air hurts when breathing in and a warm bed seems more appealing than the outdoors. For some, remaining active and social can be challenging once the clocks roll back an hour. But should we let winter keep us from living our lives? In this episode, health psychologist Kari Leibowitz discusses her new book, How To Winter: Harness Your Mindset to Thrive on Cold, Dark, or Difficult Days. She gives tips about how to enjoy winter and explains how a slight change in perspective can go a long way in the winter. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Marielle Segarra?

  You're listening to Life Kit from NPR.

• 0:07Marielle Segarra?

  Hey, everybody. It's Marielle.

• 0:10Marielle Segarra?

  You know, I feel like certain months and seasons just have a really good marketing team. Like, everybody loves fall. The colored leaves, the pumpkin spice, everything, the magic of Halloween. And my god, the way people talk about summer, as if it's just a string of perfect days. We spend basking in the sunshine, eating popsicles, going to the beach with friends. The truth is, every season comes with its own indignities. Like, the amount of time I've spent standing on a subway platform in 95-degree heat, sweating bullets and scratching my mosquito bites while I wait for the train. But we ignore all that, choosing to think of some seasons as this romantic ideal. And then we don't extend the same courtesy to winter, especially January and February.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  When we imagine winter, we imagine it based on its worst day. So we imagine the coldest, wettest, windiest, darkest day, even when that day is not the norm.

• 1:10Marielle Segarra?

  Carrie Lebowitz grew up on the Jersey Shore. It's a summer destination. And she says, on the Jersey Shore, everybody knows winter sucks.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  It is this cultural knowing, and it's such an ingrained knowing, that it doesn't feel like an opinion. It feels like a fact, right? Like, the fact is, winter is depressing. Winter is bad for your physical and mental health and well-being. End of story.

• 1:38Marielle Segarra?

  And then, right after college, before she got her PhD in psychology, Carrie was looking for some research experience. She started talking to a professor who studies human happiness in a city called Tromsø in Norway. It's about 200 miles north of the Arctic Circle. And every year, it goes through something called the polar night, about two months of darkness, where the sun doesn't rise above the horizon.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  And so with my Jersey Shore perspective about winter, I was like, oh, people there must be really depressed, so we can study, you know, seasonal affective disorder. We can study winter depression and do some sort of research on that.

• 2:13Marielle Segarra?

  That turned out to be totally wrong. The research does not show high rates of seasonal affective disorder in Tromsø. So Carrie got a Fulbright scholarship, went to Norway, and studied that.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  This is a place with a really extreme winter that's very long and very dark and very cold. How is it that they're not depressed when I feel like winter in New Jersey is depressing?

• 2:36Marielle Segarra?

  Since then, Carrie's research has taken her all over the world, to places that have long, cold winters: Copenhagen, Reykjavik, the Isle of Lewis in Scotland, Yamagata, Japan. And she wrote a book called How to Winter: Harness Your Mindset to Thrive on Cold, Dark, or Difficult Days. It's filled with something we love here at Life Kit: practical tips. In this episode, I talk to Carrie about what we can do to prepare for winter, enjoy it, and really give it a fair shake. Because yeah, it can be cold and uncomfortable and dark.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  And it can be cozy and magical and refreshing. And what we sort of orient to and highlight and talk about makes it more real for us.

• 3:25Marielle Segarra?

  As always, it's up to you what you focus on.

• 3:33Marielle Segarra?

  Before we get back to the show, the end of another year is coming up, and our team is looking back at all the tips and advice we've been able to bring you in 2024 because of your support. We've reported on everything from smart credit card habits, to ditching your smartphone, to napping, to breast cancer screening. And it's all because listeners like you step up to support our work by giving to your local station or by joining NPR+. When you sign up for NPR+, you support our mission of creating a more informed public and get special perks from more than 25 NPR podcasts, like sponsor-free listening, bonus episodes, and even exclusive and discounted items from the NPR shop and the NPR Wine Club. Join us on the plus side today at plus.npr.org. And thank you.

• 4:19Marielle Segarra?

  Carrie, you've done research in a bunch of places that have long, cold winters, but where people also seem to have more positive attitudes towards winter than you've seen on the Jersey Shore or in the States. Why do you think that is?

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Well, I think there's a lot of reasons. I think one is if you live somewhere where the winter is really extreme, right? So if you're in the Nordics, right? I'm thinking Denmark and Finland and Norway and Iceland, you know, all of which are places that I went as part of researching my book. You have no choice but to adapt to the winter, right? When you have such an extreme change between seasons, especially from light to dark, summer to winter, it's obvious that you need to adjust your behavior and adapt the way that

• 5:13Speaker 01

  you're living according to what season it is. And I actually think that this adaptation is really healthy and really useful.

• 5:24Marielle Segarra?

  Yeah, and to take this even a step further, you talk in the book about how the natural world behaves during winter, that basically it's a time for slowing down, for rest, for recuperation and reflection, and that, you know, animals will hibernate or they'll go into, is it torpor?

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Torpor, yeah.

• 5:42Marielle Segarra?

  A hibernation-like state associated with decreased heart rate and metabolism, which allows animals to exist in a near coma for hours, days, or weeks at a time. But yet, we as humans don't think that those patterns apply to us.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's so funny because like, I have friends who know what I study, and, you know, after the clocks change in, you know, the second or third week of November, they'll say things to me like, "Oh, I've just been so tired lately. I don't know what's wrong with me." And I'm like, "There's nothing wrong with you. You're a living being on a planet with a climate, you know? And if you look at every other living thing on Earth, plant or animal, they are all changing their behavior in winter in some way, right? They're either migrating or hibernating, or they're slowing down, they're shedding their leaves, they're storing up their energy for spring, and yet, I think are sort of..."

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Modern societies and modern conveniences have convinced us that it's a personal or moral failure if we want to slow down in the winter, if we feel less able to maintain the same schedule 365 days a year.

• 6:59Marielle Segarra?

  So takeaway one, acknowledge winter for what it is, at least in the natural world, a time to rest, to restore, and to move slower. Stop trying to fight it and allow yourself to hibernate. Some suggestions from the book. If you don't currently observe the Sabbath, setting aside one day to rest, do that in winter, one day a week. You set the terms. It could be no email, no phones, no logistics, discussions, whatever you want. You could also take a family nap where you stay in your PJs, make a pillow fort, watch movies, and embrace the slumber party vibes for a day. And let yourself take longer with everyday tasks, slower meals, slower walks, longer bath times. I mean, seriously, where are you going anyway? It's freezing outside.

• 7:44Marielle Segarra?

  One of the things I like about the book is that it blends your research with really practical suggestions for how people can reconsider winter. One that you have as a start is when winter begins, get ready, right? Set your house up, make a list of five things that you're looking forward to about the season. What would be on your list?

• 8:09Speaker 01

  So on my list is always to first break out the candles that I put away in the summer. Lighting candles, it's such a cliche winter advice, right? Like, it's almost, it sounds so fluffy and meaningless, but I really think when you light candles with the intention of embracing and celebrating the darkness, it actually has a profound impact on your experience and changes the meaning of winter darkness.

• 8:40Marielle Segarra?

  This is Takeaway Two: Get Ready For Winter. The season is transitioning, and so should you. This is the time to bring your winter clothes to the front of your closet, all those cozy sweaters and fuzzy socks. Also, break out the candles and the string lights. Stock up on tea and hot chocolate. Make a soup the first day the temperature drops. Get out the thick curtains and flannel sheets. Basically, prepare your nest.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  I also really like to change my diet seasonally as much as I can. So I switch from, you know, a cold breakfast in the summer to a warm breakfast in the winter. And I switch from iced coffee to hot coffee or tea that I drink all day long. So all of these things are sort of, they're very practical and they help me have the physical things that I need to be comfortable in the winter. And it also sort of gets me into winter mode. They reorient my attention from the negative things about the cold and the dark and the

• 9:45Speaker 01

  wet to the things that I enjoy when the temperature drops and it's raining out all the time.

• 9:54Marielle Segarra?

  Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you talk in the book about how research shows that the details we pay attention to about winter and how we describe the season to other people can change our experience entirely.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Yes, and there's so much research that shows that our mindsets matter, that our mindsets impact our physical functioning, our emotional well-being, how we move throughout the world, our physiology. And a lot of the times, I think, these things get presented as if they're magic, right? Like, I adopt the mindset that winter is wonderful, and then magically, all of a sudden, like, I feel better and I'm happier and I'm healthier and I'm better looking and like, you know, all of these things. But really, when you have the mindset that winter is wonderful, you are more likely to notice and focus on the things that you enjoy about the season, right? The way that going for-

• 10:50Speaker 01

  An evening walk in the winter makes you feel really refreshed. And you come in and you sort of feel awake but calm and ready for bed. Or the way that, you know, the sort of indirect light of winter is really beautiful. And it's actually extremely well suited for cozy activities like, you know, reading or doing art or baking or writing or whatever creative pursuits you enjoy.

• 11:19Marielle Segarra?

  Takeaway three, notice the good things about winter. Do you want to live in a frozen hellscape or a winter wonderland? It's kind of up to you. When you have negative thoughts about winter, ask yourself if you're exaggerating at all. And if noticing the positive could help. Take a photo every day of something that brings you winter related delight. Notice how nature looks different in the winter and what you like about it. Maybe you love the smell of the rain or the way the snow crunches when you walk on it. Maybe you love the very particular blue color of the winter sky at dusk. Maybe when you walk out of a snowstorm into a restaurant, instead of saying, it's so gross out there, you can say, it's so cozy in here.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  Those little things then influence your mood. They influence your emotions and how you're feeling on a daily basis. They also then influence your motivation, right? How likely are you to actually go outside and go for a walk? Even if it's cold or drizzly. And then if you're more likely to go outside and be walking, we know that movement and fresh air and contact with nature are all natural antidepressants and mood boosters. And of course, are good for your physical health as well.

• 12:30Marielle Segarra?

  Yeah. And one way to do that, right? One way to reinforce this is to consider how we talk about winter.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think when we say things out loud, it makes them real. It directs our attention. It directs other people's attention. And it reinforces these narratives that we have about everything.

• 12:55Marielle Segarra?

  Yeah, let's talk about getting outside in the winter.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Let's.

• 12:59Marielle Segarra?

  What do you need to make it enjoyable? And what can you do when you're outside to really lean into it?

• 13:07Speaker 01

  So in Scandinavia, in Norway, they have this saying, there's no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing. And I really learned how to dress for the winter when I was living in Norway. And now, even when I'm home in New Jersey, I'm gonna be wearing my leggings underneath my jeans, I'm gonna be wearing layers on my top, I'm gonna be wearing waterproof outer shell waterproof boots. You know, you wanna be warm enough. And I think that this is another place where living somewhere that is relatively mild in the winter does us a disservice because you think that you don't need it, but actually it still makes a big difference.

• 13:49Marielle Segarra?

  Takeaway four: bundle up properly and get outside. In the book, Carrie talks about the Norwegian principle of "ri livs liv," it translates to "open-air life." But she says, really, it's about finding freedom in an open-air life. We can do that in winter by continuing to enjoy nature and move around outside even when it's cold. She suggests an awe walk, where you allow yourself to feel awe or wonder and look at whatever it is, the trees, shops on your street, the snowy hill, with fresh eyes.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  If this is new for you, start small. Just take a walk around your neighborhood, bring a thermos of tea or coffee, go for 15 or 20 minutes, see how it feels. If there's a place that you like to walk in other seasons, so, a park or by a river or by the beach, try going in the winter and experiencing it at that time of year, right? What looks different? What sounds different? What smells different?

• 14:49Marielle Segarra?

  Yeah, you even say in the book, like, you can reclaim a summer love. So whether that's walking on the beach or even, you know, I was thinking about having a winter picnic at the park.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  This is something that they do in Scandinavia, and they really have the infrastructure for it. So if there's any parks near you that have fire pits or charcoal grills, where you can really gather around and barbecue and eat hot foods and drink beverages, this is a very Scandinavian pastime, is to go out. Bundled your winter layers, cook some hot dogs on the grill, drink some hot chocolate, be out for a few hours and really enjoy the cold winter weather.

• 15:28Marielle Segarra?

  Yeah, you know, I actually like sometimes the harshness too of the cold air on my face, especially if I'm going for a moody walk where I'm listening to kind of sad or angry or intense music. And then the cold air just heightens it, right? Like, I'm really, I'm in a vibe.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  It's totally a vibe. And I think it's that it's a freshness, you know? And a- and it also like it, it makes you feel a little bit tough. And I, I don't know, I feel a little bit more equipped to tackle other things in my life. And I feel like it sort of raises my confidence. It, it helps us see that we don't have to be limited by winter because we can get out and enjoy ourselves.

• 16:22Marielle Segarra?

  Okay, so now let's bring it back inside.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 16:25Marielle Segarra?

  Um, tell me about the concept of big light off.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  So big light off is uh, something that my husband and I talk about. I mean, it's not a totally original idea, but uh, you know, we've given it a, our own special name of big light off, which is no big overhead lights on in the darkness of winter especially. And this is something that you'll see throughout Scandinavia. They love lamps and candles and soft light. And I think the thing about using little lights, so lamps or twinkly lights or candles, is that

• 17:08Speaker 01

  The darkness is sort of friendly and there's not such a big contrast with the outside. And I think, you know, for me, this concept of big light off is really about working with the darkness, right? What is the vibe that you can create in winter because the sun sets earlier? How can you have this sort of moody cozy atmosphere? It can feel very intimate, you know, it's sort of like

• 17:40Marielle Segarra?

  Romantic.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  It's romantic, the conversations are different. I think people open up differently. There's some research showing that darkness enhances creativity because it sort of gets rid of our usual inhibitions and constraints. And so that can be really special to winter.

• 18:02Marielle Segarra?

  Takeaway five, accept the darkness, allow the darkness, become one with the darkness. And think about what the darkness is facilitating for you, whether that's rest or the time and mental space to finally write that book or learn woodworking or reconnect with your partner. It feels like winter and it getting darker earlier is giving me the opportunity to do simpler things and have them be enough. Like it doesn't have to be a really elaborate activity. It doesn't even have to be outside of my house.

• 18:42Marielle Segarra?

  It's almost like permission to rest and permission to just do slow hobbies.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Yes, and I think our default when we struggle with winter is focusing on the things that we can't do or the things that feel harder in winter or in the darkness. But I think the corollary to that is this idea that there's more space for other things, right? Reading that stack of books or, you know, watching all the TV shows on your list or knitting or doing watercolor or baking or cooking elaborate dinners or whatever it is. And I think what you talk about of permission is really valuable. This permission to slow down, this permission to do less,

• 19:30Speaker 01

  this permission to live in a different way that feels more aligned with the season. That permission is, I think, the difference between I'm staying home because I'm depressed and I'm staying home because this is my time of year to slow down.

• 19:47Marielle Segarra?

  Yeah, you know, it's funny. Yesterday I got my comforter out of the dryer and I just disappeared into it. I took it out of the laundry basket on the couch and I just like wrapped it all around me like I was a like a little pill bug or something.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, burrito.

• 20:08Marielle Segarra?

  And it was the best. It was just like, I was like giggling to myself inside of this comforter. Like I spent a good five minutes just inside the comforter vibing.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think winter is a chance to reconnect with those sort of small pleasures, those little cozy delights, right? If you can spend five minutes giggling because you're wrapped up like a pill bug in the comforter from the dryer, you're gonna have a good life.

• 20:44Marielle Segarra?

  And it's something you can bring with you into the rest of the year because, you know, in the summer, it's easy to get distracted by everything that's available to you. But sometimes the greatest pleasure is just like having a really ripe peach, you know?

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Totally. I also think that there are practices that help us in all seasons of life and in all difficult times, right? We're all at some point in our lives going to be sick, going to be grieving, where we're gonna have a forced slowdown. And so if you've practiced that seasonally every year, maybe you're better able to meet that head on and take that slow season that you need when it arrives.

• 21:30Marielle Segarra?

  Yeah. Well, Carrie, thank you so much. I got a lot out of the book. I really am excited to do some of this stuff this winter.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Thank you. I mean, it was really fun getting to talk with you about it.

• 21:42Marielle Segarra?

  All right, time for a recap. Takeaway one, acknowledge winter for what it is. At least in the natural world, a time to rest and restore and move slower. Stop trying to fight it and allow yourself to hibernate. Takeaway two, prepare for winter. Bring out the flannel sheets and the big comforters and wool sweaters. Stock up on tea and candles and whatever makes you feel cozy. Takeaway three, notice the good things about winter. Take photos of things that bring you winter-related joy. Notice how nature looks different in the winter and what you like about it. Be specific. Takeaway four, bundle up and get yourself outside. Go on a bike ride or an awha walk.

• 22:24Marielle Segarra?

  Reclaim an activity that you love to do during the summer, but winterize it. And takeaway five, become one with the darkness and acknowledge the many opportunities it brings. For more Life Kit, check out our other episodes. There's one about how to exercise in the cold and another about how to find a hobby. You can find those at npr.org/lifekit. And if you love Life Kit and want even more, subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org/lifekitnewsletter. Also, we love hearing from you, so if you have episode ideas or feedback you want to share, email us at [email protected]. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Bria Suggs. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan and our digital editor is Malika Gharib. Megan Cain is our supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer.

• 23:09Marielle Segarra?

  Our production team also includes Andy Tagel, Claire Marie Schneider, Margaret Serino, and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Carly Strange and David Greenberg. I'm Marielle Segarra. Thanks for listening.