Dear Life Kit: I'm having neighbor drama

What should you do if your next-door neighbor plays the drums all the time? Or shows up uninvited? Or leaves trash in their front yard? In this episode of Dear Life Kit, professional mediator Sasha Philip and writer Celeste Headlee share advice on these thorny neighbor dilemmas. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This message comes from the Southern Environmental Law Center. No one voted for dirty air and water. That's why S E L C is fighting back to defend the healthy environment everyone depends on. Because it's not political, it's fundamental. Learn more at S E L C dot org.

• 0:17Marielle Segarra?

  You're listening to Life Kit from NPR.

• 0:25Marielle Segarra?

  Hey there, neighbor. It's Marielle. Today, we're going to talk about the people next door and how to deal when things aren't all good in the neighborhood. Because it's tricky, right? Our homes are sacred spaces, the place we go to relax, recover, retreat from all the chaos of our lives in the world. So when you pull up to that retreat and you find, say, the neighbor down the street has left Sparky's poop on your lawn yet again, or that no matter how politely you ask, no matter how many times you've got over it, that one guy just can't seem to stop blocking your driveway and making you late, or when you have a big day at work in the morning and you're woken up by the incessant thumping of a 3 a.m.

• 1:10Marielle Segarra?

  deep trance DJ session, it can feel so personal, so uniquely maddening. But-

• 1:18Speaker 02

  Most people don't intentionally inflict harm or pain or even annoyance on others, including their neighbors. So most people are going to be willing to listen to, hey, I can hear this in my house. Oh, I didn't realize that. Or, well, what conversation can we have about this? Most people are going to be willing to have the conversation.

• 1:42Marielle Segarra?

  Sasha Phillip is a professional mediator and arbitrator who formerly practiced civil litigation for more than a decade. So, translation, she understands conflict. And her number one guiding principle when it comes to dealing with neighborhood affairs is this.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  Curiosity. And then kindness and empathy. Because you don't know where someone else is coming from. That hostile neighbor, maybe their cat just died, or their spouse just died. Or, or they've lived a really, really hard life and people haven't asked them about it forever. And they're feeling isolated. So I think coming at these things to the extent you can. When you're in conflict, I think it's really hard to bring that. But if you can bring your best self and approach with questions and curiosity and empathy, I think that almost always creates a bridge to better communication.

• 2:36Marielle Segarra?

  And there's a lot of good to be found on the other side of that bridge. Studies show that people who know and interact with their neighbors experience higher rates of safety, stronger social cohesion, even better mental and physical health.

• 2:49Speaker 03

  It's really impossible to overestimate the benefits from knowing your neighbors. And I want to separate knowing from liking. It is absolutely possible and really necessary to have solid, respectful, good relationships with people you don't like.

• 3:06Marielle Segarra?

  Celeste Headley is a professional speaker, journalist, and the author of We Need to Talk: How to Have Conversations That Matter. She's also been a great neighbor of sorts to us here at Life Kit over the years. She's reached over the proverbial fence many a time to lend us her wisdom and resources. So on today's edition of Dear Life Kit, the advice series where reporter Andy Tagle answers your burning questions, let's navigate some neighbor conflict with communicators who have been around the block. We'll talk noise pollution, eye sores, and how to handle an overly familiar neighbor who can't seem to stop inviting herself over.

• 3:47Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors. Support for this podcast and the following message come from the Southern Environmental Law Center. No one voted for a dirty air. No one voted for polluted water. That's why S E L C is fighting back to defend the healthy environment everyone depends on, just as they've done for 40 years. Because clean air, clean water, and a healthy climate aren't political, they're fundamental. Learn more at S E L C dot org.

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• 5:15Speaker 05

  What do we owe the people that live next door? You know, how can we, how can we bridge that, bridge that divide, bridge that wall? What does that look like? How do we start?

• 5:23Speaker 03

  First of all, instead of asking yourself what you owe to your neighbors, I would rather reframe that as, what do you think your neighbors owe you? Like, what would you like to see from your neighbors? If there's a package left out on your front porch and it starts to rain, would you expect your neighbors to push it underneath the eaves? I kind of do. And if I expect it for myself, not expect it, but would like to have it, then that's what I'm going to do for others. But you know, when I first, every time I've moved as a, as a true adult, and by that I mean like above 30, no offense to the 20-year-olds, I was not a complete adult yet. I've created little index cards that had my name and the people living in my home and my cellphone number and my address.

• 6:07Speaker 03

  And I walked around the neighborhood and I handed it to everybody. And I said, I just moved in, you know, here's my contact information. If you need anything, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And if I, I had an older neighborhood, I said, I would say, look, if you need help raking, if you need me to walk your dog, we're here. Please don't wait until it's a crisis to call on us. We like to help. Right? Like I I would reach out first and that's a really good way to start and make connections.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  I I love that. I love the idea of index cards because I think humanizing people is so important because it's so easy to say, oh, there's just a new stranger in the house next door. So so having some context for who you are, I think, is so incredibly important. I think for me, it starts with, you know, a new neighbor moves in. This is old fashioned, but go over with a basket of muffins or cookies or something to make them feel welcome, to not make them feel isolated. Because I think it is so easy to move into a new neighborhood and think, I'm the only new person here. Everybody else already knows each other. Nobody's going

• 7:13Speaker 02

  to like me. I don't know whether I fit in, especially if you're an ethnic or racial or other type of minority. So I think it's just so important to to make those little maybe old fashioned gestures of welcome in order to invite people into the community.

• 7:33Speaker 05

  So helpful. This is this is also great, Celeste Sasha. I'm so happy to have you. I'm ready for these questions. Question number one. Dear like it. My neighbor, fifty something year old, single, lives alone, works random hours and is home a lot. I work full time with one of those days being from home. The problem is, he has a drum set in his basement and when he plays, I can clearly hear it. He's a fairly decent drummer. However, he practices a lot. If it were occasionally, that would be one thing, but it's nearly every day for multiple hours. We're friends, but I don't know how to address this. Signed, drummer bummer.

• 8:12Speaker 05

  Seems like he's trying to be conscious or as conscious as he can to do what he can to to curb the noise for the people around him.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  So I will say that, Andy, you're totally right, that this guy is within his rights. And he's in his basement and it sounds like he's not doing it during the hours when he's not allowed. So the the neighbor who's annoyed, it's also totally understandable that you're annoyed. Like, that's understandable, too. But you have to start from the idea that he's in his personal space and it's okay. And then ask yourself, what can I do to make my space so that it's better for me? Like, they have very inexpensive insulating tiles that you can put on your walls and your ceiling to insulate your space, like whatever it is that you work against noise. You can put in noise-canceling headphones. I'm gonna have to say, this is a conflict you should probably let go.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Hmm, okay.

• 9:05Speaker 03

  This, this is, this guy, for whatever reason, he's home a lot, and he gets pleasure out of playing his drums, and he's allowed to, right? Like, he's not playing at 1:00 in the morning.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, you make really good points, Celeste. And my mind immediately goes to, she says they're friends, right? That's a great starting point. There's already some context here. She also says that he's a fairly decent drummer. So it doesn't sound like the drumming itself is what's annoying so much as the quantity and the amount of time that she's exposed to the drumming. So my thought would be, maybe there's a compromise here. Yes, absolutely, Celeste, I agree with you. You can't control other people's actions. You can only control your own and your own environment. But also, maybe have a conversation.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  The drummer-bummer, our writer, works one day at home. Maybe they can have a conversation where they work out, you know, "Hey drummer, maybe you can practice during hours when I'm not at home." And then perhaps quietness, silence, stillness is important to me. Maybe keep it down a little bit during the times when I am home. And we can exchange schedules or whatever it takes. So maybe there's an opportunity for dialogue there. Because maybe he doesn't realize that it's bothering her as much as it does. So having that conversation and expressing that might go a long way. And it may still require noise-canceling headphones when he practices in the evenings and she wants quiet.

• 10:41Speaker 02

  But maybe there's a little bit of room for compromise and collaboration there.

• 10:45Speaker 03

  And don't wait until you're sitting in your house and you hear the drumming and you get ticked off. There's something Ambrose Bierce said where he said, "Speak when you're angry and you'll make the best speech you'll ever regret," right? Like, don't- Wait until you're ticked off. You know, wait until there's no drumming and you're calm and then bring it up. And don't try to soften the message. Like when you mix it with compliment, "Oh, you're such a great drummer, you know. If I weren't working at home, I would love listening to you." Because people, most people interpret that as them being manipulated or you're being dishonest. And it can make things worse. And the last thing I would say is don't over personalize it. This isn't about his character. It's not about your character. This is about a very simple task conflict, right?

• 11:29Speaker 03

  The task of finding a middle ground if it's possible. Or if not possible for you to live with what is, what exists. So don't make this about anybody's character or personality.

• 11:41Speaker 05

  Great advice. All right, let's keep it moving. Question number two. Dear Life Kit, we live in a nice neighborhood that has HOA rules. There's a neighbor very close to us that is violating some of those rules. They have multiple vehicles that don't run in their driveway, a huge water container that they use during the Helene ordeal, building supplies even though there was no damage in our neighborhood. And they still have Christmas lights up and actually hanging down in spots. All of this is in their driveway, except the Christmas lights, of course. So my question is, do we call the president of the HOA? They're nice people and we don't want to have them be angry at us. But it's a real eyesore and no one else in the development lives like this. Signed, Sight For Sore Eyes.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  I'm going to guess what Sasha's going to say, which is do not call the HOA president. Go over and talk to them.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  Yes. That's always my answer.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  And that's my answer also. Frankly, as a, as a person of color, please don't bring in the authorities unless it's absolutely necessary.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 12:37Speaker 03

  You have no idea what's going on in their life. If you call the HOA and they get fined, only to find out that they just had a death in the family, they have a major medical problem, that something has been going on for the long term that has completely disrupted their life, you're going to feel horrible. So go talk to them. Maybe they need help. You know, maybe you can go over and say, you know, I've noticed this is happening and I just want to know, is there anything I can help you with? Can we get a group of people to help out? Is there anything I can do? And you know, I'm not trying to downplay what it's like to have what you think of as ugliness in your living environment. That, that's not a small thing.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  We all want to surround ourselves in an environment that is a comfort, isn't it? Not an irritant. I get that.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  And I, and I, the other thing I would, I would say is it's so easy for us to assume bad intentions. And that is not usually what is going on. So if you can go into these things, any of these things, assuming good intentions and assuming that that's, that what's going on is not intended to hurt you. Um, and not, certainly not specifically you. Um, there certainly are situations where that happens, where neighbors get incredibly petty and they are actually actively trying to harm each other. But that is incredibly rare, incredibly, incredibly rare. So if you can go into these situations, assuming good intentions, assume that the person, there's something else going on.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  And assuming that if there's something going on, help is the thing to offer. That's so much more useful and so much more neighborly than, again, telling yourself that story in your head.

• 14:25Speaker 05

  If it goes poorly, if the neighbor is not in fact in need of help, if the neighbor is like, this is my place and I'm going to live the way that I want to. Well, then you, at least you have your answer.

• 14:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can always escalate. It's real hard. Once you've escalated to ratchet back.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  And you can make a plan ahead of time, right? You can say, okay, I'm going to go have this conversation. I am going to go when I am calm and not myself triggered or escalated. I'm going to go when I'm calm. I'm going to have this conversation. And my plan B, if it doesn't go well, is X. And maybe that is calling the HOA. But start at the lowest possible level.

• 15:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 15:06Speaker 05

  All right. Um, moving on to our final question. Dear Life Kit, how do I respond to a neighbor who's invited themselves over to gatherings multiple times? Neither of us planned to move, but when this person texts me asking if we're having a party for a certain holiday or event, I'm not sure how to respond. Since she's a neighbor, it's not like I can lie about not having something. Signed by the more, not the merrier.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  What's the harm? Right? Is this person being disruptive? You really have to do a reward versus cost analysis here. And again, I hate to repeat that context matters, but it does. Maybe she's lonely. Maybe she needs contact. Maybe she's in, she's been through something bad and needs to be included. Maybe she's been excluded on her life and made a vow that she was not going to be excluded anymore, and she was going to be aggressive and, and get invited to those parties. Maybe that's something she said. You can absolutely talk to her and find out about it, or you could just say, "I'm having a big party and it's okay." Because if there's 10 people here, what do I care if it's 11?

• 16:09Speaker 02

  I mostly agree, because that's where my brain went as well. Maybe this person is desperately lonely and just wants community and connection. In which case, does it hurt me to provide that for her? If not, allow it. The other part of my brain, though, said, "Maybe I've planned these gatherings in great detail. Maybe I've, you know, looked at my RSVP list and I know I have 10 people, and I've bought food for 10 people, and drinks for 10 people, and party favors for 10 people, and that 11th person really, truly is disruptive." There's no harm in setting boundaries.

• 16:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Right? Have the conversation. Figure out what the shared interests are, because maybe she needs community, and maybe you can provide that in some other way without her coming to every one of your gatherings. And you can set the boundary of, "Yes, we are having a gathering, but it really is just for this group of people. My close friends, my family, whatever that might be. But you're more than welcome to come to the next gathering." Whatever that might look like. Again, There's no, there's no harm in being kind. Um, and mostly, there's no harm in being kind balanced against. Does it harm you? Cause if it does harm you because you've put all that planning in, then it's okay to say no.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  Um, but perhaps also figure out what's going on with her and find an opportunity to say yes sometimes.

• 17:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, absolutely. I think I, I had the exact same take, you know, um, it's like, what, what is, what is the actual cost to you? Uh, and, and be honest about your answer because sometimes there is an, an actual, a so, a social cost. You know what I mean? Like if you, if it, if it will take away from, you know, I'm thinking about my son's birthday. If you're gonna have to babysit that one person the whole time, if they're gonna like be stuck to you and it will take you away from the family and the memories. And you know, I think, I think that's like not insubstantial, you know?

• 18:06Speaker 03

  I mean, the, the reward v versus cost, you know, you have to remember that resistance is a form of obsession. Right? Like resistance is a way of holding on to something. So if this person is coming to every party and it's not harming you, like it's possible to just let it go. Then by thinking on it all the time, you're actually obsessing over this, right? It's possible that that's what's doing the harm and not the neighbor. So be sure that you're clear and self-aware about what's actually causing this disruption in your head. If it's not the neighbor's behavior, then maybe it's your obsession with it.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  I think one of the hardest things is to be honest with yourself when it comes to conflict. Because yes, are you holding on to this thing because it's filling some need, some internal need of obsessing over this and having something to obsess about? Are you, are you, it's so, so figure out what it is that you actually need and what you want and what's important and what's not. Right? What is actually going to serve you in the long run versus what's not? Um, because I think sometimes we get so embroiled in our own narrative. That it's really hard to let go and, and, and see the forest for the trees.

• 19:29Speaker 05

  I love that. Sasha, Celeste, it's been an absolute pleasure. Before I let you go, we ask every guest of Dear Life Kit for their best piece of advice. I know that's a big ask. It doesn't have to be your best piece of advice of all time. It can be the best thing that you heard this morning, something that you've been thinking about this week, something you read on a bus that felt particularly, you know, salient today. It can be anything at all that speaks to you.

• 19:55Speaker 03

  I would say some of the best advice I got was you can't do more than your best. Like, that's it. There's a limit. And it's the best you can do, and then let go.

• 20:03Speaker 05

  You can't do more than your best.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  In a similar vein, and I said this earlier as well, is you can only control your own actions and your own emotions. You cannot, you cannot do that for someone else.

• 20:16Speaker 05

  Oh, but Sasha, I try so hard. Are you sure? Because I really, I try. I really try. If I just try hard enough, if I just do a little bit more than my best, I really feel like I can try, I can, I can change somebody else. I really think that I can.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  That's the eternal trap, right?

• 20:36Marielle Segarra?

  That was Life Kit reporter Andy Tagle in conversation with professional mediator and arbitrator Sasha Phillip and writer and speaker Celeste Headley. For more Life Kit, check out our other episodes. We have one on houseplants and another on breast cancer screening. You can find those at npr.org/lifekit. And if you love Life Kit and want even more, subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org/lifekitnewsletter. Also, we love hearing from you. So if you have episode ideas or feedback you want to share with us, email us at [email protected]. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Claire Marie Schneider. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan, and our digital editor is Malika Gharib. Megan Kane is our supervising

• 21:17Marielle Segarra?

  editor, and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Margaret Serino, Sam Yellowhorse Kessler, and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from David Greenberg. I'm Marielle Segarra. Thanks for listening.

• 21:39Speaker 00

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