Pod Insights Life Kit Plus A stress-free guide to organizing important paperwork About this episode The paper of life — birth certificates, tax information, medical records and other important documents — all have to go somewhere. But keeping track of all these files and actually organizing them can feel like a headache. Professional organizer Kacy Paide walks through how to get started, what to toss and how to make a system that you'll actually stick to in moments of stress. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:26 Marielle Segarra? You're listening to Life Kit.
0:29 Marielle Segarra? From NPR. Hey, everybody, it's Marielle. All right, question, just between you and me. You got a paper pile? Yeah, we've all got a paper pile, a stack of mail and bills and forms you've been meaning to fill out and old to-do lists and discarded post-its. I've got three of these piles right now, actually. Someone, please, send help.
0:53 Speaker 02 I am Casey Patey, and I have been a professional organizer since 2001. I started right out of college. My true love is helping people declutter their paper and make sense of it.
1:05 Marielle Segarra? Oh, thank God. Casey says a lot of people end up with piles like this. And in many cases, her clients get stuck, right? They don't even start trying to get the piles under control because they feel like the goal is a perfectly beautiful space, an untouched space, you know? An immaculately organized desktop, not a paper in sight. The goal is that if somebody comes into my house, it should look like nobody even lives here.
1:29 Speaker 02 But I feel like what people want more than space is a sense of control and mastery over their domain. People really want to be able to find what they need when they need it. So I always tell my clients, we're not striving to be photographed for the cover of a magazine. We're striving to give you systems that last, things that you can rely on on your busiest, most hectic days.
1:54 Marielle Segarra? On this episode of Life Kit, reporter Andy Tiggle talks with Casey Patey about the art of decluttering your paper and how to get your most important documents organized. We'll go over where to start, how to sort, what to toss and when to toss it, and how to keep future paper monsters at bay once you've slayed them.
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3:37 Speaker 06 Casey, there are so, so, so, so, so many categories of documents that require saving, so many different levels of importance with all these categories. You know, birth certificates and passports on one level, tax information and medical records maybe on another. Then there's car stuff and home stuff, smaller stuff, which maybe aren't as vital, but still necessary to have around, like the oven manual, the receipt for the dry cleaner. I'm overwhelmed just trying to break it all down in one sentence for you. So where do we start? Where do we, what's step one here?
4:07 Speaker 02 I like to start with what is within a certain small radius of your computer or your laptop. Because what piles up within arms' reach of where you sit when you're at your computer is very different than the paper that's 10, 20 years old on your, you know, in a box in your office closet, or even in an old filing cabinet.
4:29 Speaker 06 Hmm.
4:30 Speaker 02 So, we usually have just kind of like the day-to-day, you know, the piddly stuff, the admin stuff, the documents and action items that are on fire tend to be closest to us.
4:41 Speaker 06 Hmm, mhm.
4:42 Speaker 02 If it's up to me, I feel like I can deliver somebody the most immediate relief if we pay attention to what has come in most recently. Usually there are little fires to be put out, like little, little landmines. People have the best of intentions to clear that up every day or every evening.
5:00 Speaker 06 Yeah.
5:00 Speaker 02 But if you have 100 pieces of paper out, you have 100 reasons why that wasn't able to happen.
5:05 Speaker 06 Oof, yeah. Great, okay, all right, so we have our, we have our 100 little landmines. We're gonna start with what's nearest to us. Where do I go?
5:11 Speaker 02 So, from there, if we're just doing a big crude sort, I would wanna look at that particular population of paper and divide it into things that need action and things that simply don't. Things that need action could be, oh, I'm going on a trip in a few weeks and I don't have a passport, like, super, super urgent. And things that need action could be, oh, I need to, you know, see if I can still deposit this check that I think went void 90 days ago, right? So, in this early phase, I'm not asking people to really parse out the fine details of types of action, just what do you need to act on versus everything else?
5:56 Speaker 02 Because what you need to act on are usually things that you can't put away. And people, you know, are always striving to put everything away and hide everything and clear their desk. But a lot of what weighs people down visually and what weighs people down emotionally are the things that are screaming at them. You can't just file them because then you forget you have them. So if we can segregate your paper in such a way that you are only looking at what needs action in one snapshot, then we can really start to see your patterns. And then we can start to catch those things in those categories as they come in. And then we can start to see from those categories, how much of it really needs to be out in the open?
6:40 Speaker 02 What needs to be on the desktop? What needs to be within arm's reach? What needs to be in a file drawer that's close to you versus across the room?
6:50 Speaker 06 Takeaway one. If you don't know where to start, just reach for the pile nearest your workspace. That's likely where the most recent and most pressing stuff will be. This technique also applies for your digital paperwork, by the way. Casey says most people will have a mix of both digital and paper clutter. So if you're working on a computer or phone, just work with the most recent stuff in your inbox or camera roll. Separate all those documents into two piles, active and inactive. Active requires follow-up, a phone call, paying a bill. Inactive does not. Receipts, certificates, sentimental stuff. Once you've weeded out all the inactive paper, you can turn your attention back to the more pressing paperwork.
7:28 Speaker 02 So now that we're just looking at our action items, now we want to start prioritizing. I don't ever like to call action folders anything like urgent or do now.
7:41 Speaker 06 Because then it's like urgent one, urgent two, urgent three. Yeah.
7:43 Speaker 02 Oh, I see it all the time. Sometimes I find urgent exclamation point files and we open. And I'm like, why is everything dated 2008? This is where I think organizing gets really fun because you have to get creative with labeling. So instead of urgent or do now, I would want to ask my client, when does this have to get done? And they would say, this needs to get done when you leave. Then I'm going to paperclip things with a big Post-it and say, do Thursday night. Or if they say, you know what? This needs to get done by the 15th of next month. Then we're going to put that date on there. Or I need to do this Monday morning. We're going to put it in a folder, put a label on it that says, do Monday morning.
8:27 Speaker 02 So we want to be really specific. Because urgent means urgent now. But when you find it under your desk six months from now, what does urgent mean? And then you start trusting that word. It starts becoming useful.
8:39 Speaker 06 I like that. Okay, what about tips for inactive paperwork? We have our inactive pile. I assume we just don't want to let it sit there and collect dust. Tips for how we start to parse all of that out.
8:51 Speaker 02 Sure. So now we're talking about filing systems. What I end up doing with a lot of clients is we do file boxes on shelves. And those can be shelves in a closet. They can be open shelves on a bookcase. File cabinets can be really ugly and corporate and cheap. Or they can be beautiful and look appropriate with the finest of furniture. So something I love to do is see what kind of shelving somebody has. So let's say we're in a home office. I might realize, you know, you have a bookcase. How do you feel about taking three of these shelves and putting beautiful file boxes on those?
9:33 Speaker 02 And then you have this visual filing system that's also beautiful and approachable.
9:41 Speaker 06 Takeaway two. Create a filing system that works for your space and is as basic or as intricate as you need it to be to actually find the things you need when you need them. That could be super simple. Like having a couple of files on your computer or the cloud, each labeled for the big categories like work, medical, home, auto, that you can refer to as needed. There are plenty of note-taking or planner apps out there that can help with this. Or as meticulous as having a different filing cabinet for each member of the family, separated by year, color-coded, alphabetized, and categorized. How many folders is too many folders?
10:17 Speaker 02 If it starts to feel like you have too many, but you know you need that much paper, that's when we can start getting creative with where things are. We can get creative with color coding. All of the personal papers, for example, might be a fun color. Maybe we make those a bright turquoise. And then all of their business folders are like a boring manila. So if you feel like you're straddling that line or far past that line of too many file folders, you can start breaking them up in such a way that visually it still feels calm and manageable. When every file folder looks exactly the same and is the same color, and you have a thousand of them, you're going to get lost. You're not going to be able to retrieve what you've got.
11:03 Speaker 06 That leads me to another question, which is, does getting organized always require a ton of investment? You know, like, does everyone need a fancy label maker and a high-end scanner and a fireproof safe and a giant file cabinet?
11:13 Speaker 02 Not at all. I actually, I've been doing this for about 23 years. I only bought my first label maker about four years ago.
11:23 Speaker 06 Wow, that's really impressive. Takeaway three. You don't need any fancy materials to get organized. So, no budget for that beautiful five-tier desk organizer with a matching stapler and three-hole punch? Don't worry, you can still get started.
11:37 Speaker 02 So, I keep a certain number of basic supplies in my trunk, and I've turned to them time and time again. And just to give you an example, I use extra sticky, white Post-it notes, just your classic square Post-it note, as a file label. They're stickier than your basic Post-its, so they won't fall off. And they're not so sticky that they're permanent. And I just use my own bold, all-caps handwriting with a fine Sharpie. And there are just probably millions of file folders across town with my handwriting on those on white Post-its. And that's all you need to get started. Naturally, you might need some file folders.
12:19 Speaker 02 But going back to the handwriting on a Post-it note, the beauty in that is that you're not carving anything in stone. So, a lot of times, people's hesitation to start making file folders and labels of any sort is that they're going to change their mind. And sometimes, we change our mind about what we call a label, what we call a file folder, five minutes later. Sometimes, we change our mind a year later. And people really don't like, you know, being messy and scratching things out and having tape residue. So, it's very freeing to do a little bit more of a cheap and temporary label.
12:56 Speaker 06 All right, what about our most important files? I'm thinking about, you know, passports, licenses, birth certificates, things that we don't need often, but that we still need time to time. Do you treat those any differently? Do those go in those same file cabinets? Is there an extra, super special place that you recommend those going?
13:18 Speaker 02 Sure. So with what I call very important documents, you want those to stand out and look different. So let's say you're a Manila file folder kind of person, and you're comfortable still having your certificates, your passports, your marriage certificates in a file folder. I would prefer it to be a colored folder. I would prefer it to be, you know, a bright red or a bright green. And I would prefer it to be kind of a bookend to your filing system. So I would want that folder or folders of very important documents to either be in the very, very back of a file drawer or file box or at the very, very front. There are a number of people, understandably, who prefer
14:03 Speaker 02 to have their very important documents in something like a safe or a fireproof safe. And I've certainly done that before, too. Again, you just want to make sure that those safes are accessible.
14:15 Speaker 06 Hmm, super helpful. For me, at least, paper organization is a big project, but it's not something I'm going to be able to do all in one sitting, although it would probably benefit me to do it all in one sitting. So how can people best set themselves up for success if they're doing this piecemeal?
14:30 Speaker 02 Sure. So I think it's great to see projects within your project. You may have a project and you are honest with yourself and you know that this could be a 50-hour project or this is a winter project. So how do you feel some sense of relief and completion long before it's finished? Long before you can see a light at the end of the tunnel? And I was just coaching somebody earlier today with the same question. She had a project with a deadline of about a month and a week out. And I helped her break it down in about 10 minutes into eight smaller projects.
15:14 Speaker 02 And I wasn't telling her she had to go in a perfect order. I wasn't telling her she had to finish one before she started the next. But you want to see micro projects and make micro progress and acknowledge that progress so you can see you're actually moving in the right direction before you're finished.
15:32 Speaker 06 Yeah, small wins. Love that.
15:35 Speaker 02 I love using timers too. I personally use a timer and I set that for 25 minutes when I am doing anything I don't want to do or anything that takes a lot of focus. So I have worked with so many clients who have moved mountains 25 minutes at a time.
15:54 Speaker 06 Takeaway four: any progress is good progress. You don't have to get all your paper decluttering done at once. Start small, keep at it, and remember, organization is an ongoing process. Casey, another big question I have for you. When is it okay to trash once-important documents? Do you have a rule of thumb? I ran out of my Gmail storage recently and so I had to go back through and find big files to delete. And I realized I was in my G drive, I was hanging on to lease agreements from like a decade ago, sometimes more. What's your rule?
16:27 Speaker 02 You know, I'm not an attorney, I'm not an accountant, so I don't have the hard and fast legal answers to this. But something that helps a lot of people, and this can be with paper or little black dresses, anything really, ask yourself, under what circumstances will I use this, or wear this, or refer to this? So, you know, at least from college, just ask yourself, under what circumstances would I ever have to produce this document? And if you can't think of a single good answer, then in most cases, it can go.
17:01 Speaker 06 I love that. What needs shredding versus throwing away?
17:05 Speaker 02 So, I work with a lot of people who I think shred way too much. There's certain part of the population that feels like they have to shred everything with their name and address on it in order to sleep well at night. Personally, what I shred is anything with my social security number, anything with an open bank account number, or a credit card number. I'm not shredding insurance. I'm not shredding my name. I'm not shredding my address.
17:41 Speaker 06 For what it's worth, consumer protection authorities like the Federal Trade Commission and state attorneys general suggest destroying anything containing sensitive information to protect yourself from identity theft. That includes things like account numbers, birth dates, passwords and PINs, signatures, or social security numbers. But of course, shred to your comfort. And finally, takeaway five. Discern when it's time to let your documents go. If you're feeling unsure about something, ask yourself, under what circumstances will I need this? Of course, this question won't exactly apply for sentimental paperwork.
18:17 Speaker 02 So, you know, there's a fine line between keeping memories and living in the past, especially with sentimental paper. I feel like it helps to have an organizing buddy. Sometimes it's a family member, sometimes it's a friend. But especially with the tough paper, it can be sentimental or not, you really need to get your thoughts around that paper out of your head. You need to voice it. Once you start talking about the tough paper, you come to your own conclusions shockingly fast. I bear witness to people making their own right decisions, a lot more than I feel like I even give my own advice.
19:01 Speaker 02 I have a client I've known for a long time, and before I met her, she went through a really painful divorce. And she was hanging on to, it's hard to quantify, let's say, 10 bins of divorce-related documents, give or take. And some of it, for lack of a better word, was sentimental because it was such a cornerstone of her adult life, for better or worse. And some of it was, what if I ever need to prove something? What if this can, you know, result in money one day? Or a lawsuit, right?
19:41 Speaker 02 But through our conversations together, she realized a lot of it was just keeping, I don't know if this was her or another client who called it records of pain. When does the day come for me to decide it's time to be free and to throw it away? And last week, I worked with one of these beloved clients and she threw it all away. She was, she was ready. She had a job interview the next day and she was like, Casey, let's do it. And it was just a beautiful thing to witness and be a part of. You're always in control of your space. You're in control of your paper. And it's up to you how fast you want to get through it.
20:23 Speaker 02 Of course, there are exceptions. Of course, there are roadblocks and speed bumps. But ultimately, you're the one who decides what to keep and for how long.
20:32 Speaker 06 That's wonderful. Casey Peady, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it. Looking forward to getting more organized.
20:39 Speaker 02 Thank you. It was my pleasure.
20:42 Speaker 06 Okay, let's recap. Takeaway one, grab the paper nearest your desk or workstation and sort your documents into active and inactive paperwork. Active paper requires action, inactive paper does not. Then act accordingly. Takeaway two, create a filing system that makes sense for you. That means it can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be. You just have to be able to find what you need. Alphabetize, color code, label make, or don't. The best file system is the one you'll actually use. Takeaway three, getting your paperwork organized does not require any big investment. So don't let your lack of aesthetically pleasing file boxes be the reason you're not getting your documents in order.
21:25 Speaker 06 Takeaway four, decluttering your paper doesn't have to happen all at once. Start small if you have to, like 25 minutes at a time. And remember, organizing is an ongoing process that will require maintenance and change. Takeaway five, learn to let go. Not all paperwork needs space in your desk drawers. If you're not sure whether or not to hold on to something, ask yourself, under what circumstances would I need to produce this document? If you can't think of a single reason, free yourself, friend. That paper pile isn't the boss of you. Oh, and finally, a shout out to listener Ellie Arnold, who wrote in to us asking for advice on this topic. Hope this helps.
22:06 Marielle Segarra? That was reporter Andy Tagle and professional organizer Casey Pady. For more Life Kit, check out our other episodes. We have another one on how to declutter your home in general, and another on hydration. You can find those at npr.org/lifekit. And if you love Life Kit and want even more, subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org/lifekitnewsletter. Also, we love hearing from you, so if you have episode ideas or feedback you want to share, email us, please, at [email protected] . This episode of Life Kit was produced by Claire Marie Schneider. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan, and our digital editor is Malika Gharib. Megan Cain is our supervising editor, and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Margaret Serino and Sylvie Douglas.
22:51 Marielle Segarra? Engineering support comes from David Greenberg and Kwasi Lee. I'm Mary Alcegara. Thanks for listening.
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