A financial planner's advice for spending without guilt

Whether you're feeling guilty about overspending or guilty about not spending enough, shame around money can get in the way of your goals. In this episode, Marielle Segarra talks with certified financial planner Lauryn Williams about how to address financial guilt and align your spending with your values. Follow us on Instagram: @nprlifekit https://www.instagram.com/nprlifekit/?hl=en Sign up for our newsletter here. https://www.npr.org/newsletter/life-kit Have an episode idea or feedback you want to share? Email us at [email protected] mailto:[email protected] Support the show and listen to it sponsor-free by signing up for Life Kit+ at plus.npr.org/lifekit http://plus.npr.org/lifekit See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:18Marielle Segarra?

  What's something that you have felt financial guilt about?

• 0:22Speaker 02

  Oh, things that I have felt financial guilt about. There are so many. I bought a home in 2004. Then I went and bought another home in 2006. And basically, in 2007, it was worthless. I held on to that home until, I think, 2017 and finally sold it short even all that time later. I did not make my money back on the home. I ended up having adverse credit history because I sold the home short. So that was a pretty embarrassing thing that happened.

• 0:55Marielle Segarra?

  Hey, it's Marielle Segarra. You're listening to Life Kit from NPR. And that was Lauren Williams. She's a certified financial planner and the founder of the company Worth Winning, where she helps young people organize their finances. Before her finance career, Lauren was an Olympian in not just one sport, but two.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  I am the first American woman to earn a medal in both the summer and the winter Olympics. I did three Olympic Games in track and field and then won Olympic Games in bobsled.

• 1:22Marielle Segarra?

  Lauren bought her homes while she was still a professional athlete, but soon after, things shifted.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  I didn't have a sustainable lifestyle or a career life after sport that was going to allow me to be able to pay a mortgage that was as high as it was. And I learned that pretty quickly after, you know, things started to change sports-wise. I had an injury and the market wouldn't allow me to sell the home. And so the guilt came from this idea that I am going to have to get rid of this, that this is a place where like my family members come and meet. It has been, you know, a social environment for so many people. It's been a safe haven. But also the idea that like, you know, I'm this big time athlete and people think that I earn and I save in a certain way. And I actually ended up using the money I had set aside for my taxes that year to take out a second mortgage because I did a poor investment. So you talk about guilt.

• 2:11Speaker 02

  This house was tied up in so much of the financial mistakes that I made over the course of my time as an athlete that the guilt just kind of piled up and it actually became kind of representative of just like guilt in general.

• 2:23Marielle Segarra?

  Yeah, it's almost like... It's guilt for like, how did I not do better? I should have known better. I should have known this. I shouldn't be in this situation. I had everything available to me. I can imagine those are some of the narratives that were going through your head.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  Exactly. And then they don't allow you to be able to make other decisions where you can't actually move forward because you feel so guilty. So I didn't want to tell anyone that, you know, I made this bad investment and I no longer, you know, I no longer had my tax money and now I needed to take out a second mortgage on my home. I did all of that secretly. And so the guilt kind of piled up because I did have a financial advisor that I, you know, I ended up talking to about it eventually, but I did not initially because of the guilt that I was carrying. And maybe, you know, some other decisions could have been made earlier on if I hadn't, you know, felt so guilty that I wanted to hide those things.

• 3:19Marielle Segarra?

  On this episode of Life Kit, Lauren and I are going to talk about how to manage financial guilt, whether it's coming from overspending, not spending enough, or something else. We talk about guilt-free spending buckets, following your own money values, and having conversations about money-related guilt.

• 3:37Marielle Segarra?

  Well, it sounds like a common reason for people feeling guilt is overspending. Like, I made a bad investment, or I just have like been spending my entire paycheck. I have a lot of money on credit cards now. How do you get started with tackling that guilt and moving forward?

• 3:59Speaker 02

  So, one of the things I think about is this like idea of, you know, the big bad B-word, budgeting. I like to refer to it as a spending plan, but really like mapping out what it is that you want to spend money on in addition to, you know, what you are spending money on is a great place to start. Because the idea for me is that we create what I like to refer to as kind of like a guilt-free budget. That's like looking into what your values are. So, I value family. I want to spend time with family. My family lives far away. I want to travel to be able to see my family. That's a very clear thing that you shouldn't feel guilty about. A lot of times people come to me and they're like, oh my goodness, I spent $6,000 on travel last year.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  I'm a bad person. Actually, the narrative should be, the value is to be able to see my family. In order to be able to do that, I need to travel. And so let me organize my budget so that there is a space for travel, so I don't need to feel guilty when I spend $6,000 a year on travel. Now, when we look at the budget, we do look at the other things, like what does your rent look like? What does your, you know, car note look like? And let's go through all these other pieces of the puzzle. Because like I said, the general reason you're coming is that you feel guilty because of the overspending. But maybe it's like, I don't need a two-bedroom apartment. I just got one because I thought, you know, it was only 300 bucks more. But you're not using that other bedroom at all. And so now we have 300 bucks a month, which is almost $3,000 a year, or more than $3,000 a year, that we can redirect to the travel budget.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  And so it's really about building a budget that is in line with your values, so that you can feel guilt-free with the things that are important to you.

• 5:32Marielle Segarra?

  And one thing you noted there, people will jump from, you know, I spent $6,000 on travel to, I'm a bad person. Which I know therapists will often interrupt that thought and teach us how to interrupt those thoughts and say, is that true? That statement, I'm a bad person. Like, do I know that to be true? Is it definitely true? And who would I be without that thought? I find that to be a really helpful exercise for myself, because then you're like, you know what? It's actually not true. I traveled because I love it. I traveled because I went to see my family. Like, that, none of those things point to me being a bad person.

• 6:14Marielle Segarra?

  When you can lift some of that off of yourself, then I feel like you can start to move forward.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I always tell my clients, like, you need to separate your mistakes from your self-worth. Like, a mistake does not say who you are. A bad financial decision does not define your character. And so we need to, like you said, revamp what we're telling ourselves, the narrative that we're saying. Uh, and fix that to say, I am allowed to enjoy the money that I earn. I am allowed to spend money on travel to see my family because that is important to me. And then you work through, like I said, the other pieces of the puzzle of like, what you don't value, and you throw that stuff away, so that you can feel really good about everything.

• 6:55Marielle Segarra?

  Takeaway one, if you feel guilty because you've overspent, remember your money mistakes do not determine your value as a person. They don't define your character and you can make changes in the future. It's about making a budget while still leaving space for some of the things that bring you happiness. We'll have more on that after the break.

• 7:18Speaker 03

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• 8:21Marielle Segarra?

  Another thing that I find helpful in terms of guilt is remembering that there's no one really keeping score. I mean, yeah, there is a credit score, but it's like, okay, so you overspent on that, that dinner, or you didn't look closely at the price of something and you just told your friend to go ahead and buy the tickets and then you were like, oh, that was way more than I meant to spend. I didn't realize they'd be that expensive. You know, it's sort of like, Okay. So.

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I I think that's exactly right. Um, for me, it was those Usher concert tickets recently. Yeah, me and my sister are going in December and she was so excited about it and I was just like excited to spend time with her. Like, I don't really care about the concert, to be quite honest, but I was like, oh, I know it's gonna be expensive. And so me- and mentally, I had put aside like three hundred bucks and it was like six hundred dollars. She's like, I bought them. And I was like, oh, okay. To your.

• 9:27Marielle Segarra?

  Six hundred dollars.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  Exactly. I'm like, are we gonna get to like, have dinner with Brett Usher afterwards? Like, how does this work?

• 9:36Speaker 02

  But, uh, you know, I think that's a perfect example of the idea of, hey, go ahead and do it and you don't think that it could even be that expensive. And then afterward, you're like, oh, man, um, I made a mistake. What do I do in order to to to to kind of fix my mistake? It's look at my budget, look at the spending I have coming up and just reorganize myself. But now I gotta go find three hundred other dollars. Um, but I don't have to end up in credit card debt. I don't have to let this be something I pay for for the next, you know, six years. I just have to say, hey, there's something else that I was probably gonna do later on this month or the in the next couple of months. Because like I said, those tickets are not till December, where I can cut those out and I can still come out in the green.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Um, as long as I look at it like that, as long as I'm proactive in thinking about, you know, okay, I did something impulsive in the moment. Let's just regulate going forward. And so those little small steps, that little bit of progress, I think, makes a big difference. Like you said, it's one thing that I did that wasn't necessarily right or within aligned with what I plan to do. But it doesn't make me a bad person and it doesn't have to ruin my whole financial picture. It's not that I'm not gonna retire because I bought these tickets to the concert. Like, we're always like focusing on the guilt piece of the puzzle. Like, what good came out of the thing that you're feeling guilty about? Is like a good first step to take as well and then like educate myself so that something like this doesn't happen in the future. And I can feel more confident in my financial situation going forward.

• 10:59Marielle Segarra?

  Yeah, I love that. Focus on the good that came out of it. One thing I like is this idea, you've mentioned of a guilt-free spending bucket. So it's like, if you find yourself overspending, you do wanna go through and figure out where you can cut back. But that doesn't mean you have to deprive yourself of all fun and joy.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  I never ever recommend that people deprive themselves of all fun and joy, even when you're focusing on debt. So there's some talking heads out there that would tell you, you know, eat beans and rice, look at the wall, don't leave the house. You know, just, just suffer until you've paid off all your debt, as an example. That is not the way that I like the budget. You should always have a space for saving and you should always have a space for yourself. You need a discretionary spending bucket. And sometimes that bucket will be smaller because you're working on paying down debt. Because you have other things going on as far as your priorities after you've kind of looked at your budget and said, okay, these are the things um, that I want to spend money on. These are things that align with my values.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  I want to get my credit card debt done by December or, you know, whatever goal you've set. And you've organized things accordingly. But you will leave something that you can put aside specifically for you to be able to go out and do whatever. And that bucket, you like, you spend, like, literally guilt free. Whatever's in it, do what you want with it.

• 12:24Marielle Segarra?

  What do some of your clients put in their guilt free spending bucket?

• 12:28Speaker 02

  Oh, it's uh, shoes, lots of shoes. Um, travel is usually a, a big piece of the, of the puzzle for a lot of people. And sometimes I say, let's just separate that out altogether. That doesn't have to be your guilt free bucket. Your guilt free bucket is where you can allow yourself to be impulsive. You know, you're out and about and you see something really cool that you're into. You know, I, I had a client that really loved mugs. And she's like, I just can't stop buying mugs. I don't even drink coffee or tea. But, you know, I started collecting them when I was younger. And I just can't pass up a really cool mug. And so, you know, in her guilt free budget, if you just find a random bug, a random mug that you want to buy and it costs 12 bucks, even though you're never going to drink out of it. Like, have at it as long as that line item is there.

• 13:11Marielle Segarra?

  Takeaway two, if you find yourself spending more than you have, it is a good idea to cut back, but that doesn't mean complete austerity. Set up a guilt free spending bucket. Decide what you want to spend money on based on your values and then let yourself do it guilt free. You'll hear more from Lauren after the break.

• 13:32Speaker 00

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• 14:25Marielle Segarra?

  So you've got your guilt-free spending budget, but you're also trying to figure out what you can cut back on if you do have financial guilt from overspending. How might someone walk through their categories of spending and figure out what they can trim out?

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Pull up your credit card bill from the last month and look at what you spent money on. And so now you're looking over everything and you're saying, okay, I spent $78 on this meal. I didn't like the person that I was eating with. I didn't like the food that I ate. And so you're just like, this didn't align with my values. And so in order to get rid of the guilt, you look at it and you say like, okay, I don't feel good about what I did. That's where the guilt came in. But what am I going to do going forward? I'm not going to hang out with so and so. The next time they invite me out, I'm just going to say, no, thank you. So you're constantly looking at your budget, your spending, your credit card statement to be able to say like, what did I do that doesn't align with the person that I want to be?

• 15:25Marielle Segarra?

  What you're saying is making me think that a lot of what we identify as guilt, that feeling after spending money is actually misalignment.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:36Marielle Segarra?

  It's like, I spent the money and I didn't enjoy it.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  And that's why I feel guilty, yes.

• 15:42Marielle Segarra?

  So it's like doing an audit of your spending, looking for places of misalignment.

• 15:49Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And then just realign. You know, it could be from one week to the next. It could be one from one month to the next. It could be one from one day to the next. You're just like, wait a minute. Catch yourself in the moment and just say like, this is not something that I want to do. This is not in line with who I want to be. And so therefore, I'm going to pivot to XYZ and do this instead.

• 16:12Marielle Segarra?

  Takeaway three. Do an audit of your finances to see where there's misalignment. What are you spending money on that you don't actually value? That's where to cut back. I thought of another type of financial guilt that some folks might feel. If you're in a couple and one of you makes a lot more money than the other one. There could be guilt both ways in that dynamic, right? Guilt that your partner pays for more stuff and you feel like you're not holding up your end of it. Or guilt that you're the partner with more money, but you still want to split things halfway or you don't want to pay for certain stuff. Or you're kind of annoyed that you have more money and then you feel guilty about being annoyed about that.

• 16:57Marielle Segarra?

  I feel like money is one of the main things that couples fight about. And guilt probably plays a big role there.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I think you're exactly right. I've actually had this conversation with my significant other fairly recently as the breadwinner for our household. Like, I do it with pleasure. But the conversation sometimes is like, how, making sure that the other person feels good about how they're contributing otherwise. There are things that I can't do when I'm working that my partner does. You know, taking our eight-year-old to soccer. I don't want to go to soccer practice, ever. You know, if I can avoid it. And that is so valuable to me. But you're right, he feels a lot of guilt as, you know, there's the stigma of like male versus female and, you know, the breadwinner. And then there's cultural. You know, my spouse is Colombian. And there's just, you know, so much of, I want to be able to contribute.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  And just reminding the other person like, hey, you are contributing. You're just contributing differently. The monetary contribution does not make me more powerful than you. We are a team that are working together and everybody's contribution to this family is very valuable. So having that conversation once again is so important to be able to help your significant other work through that guilt if that is something they're experiencing.

• 18:14Marielle Segarra?

  Takeaway four. If you or your partner are feeling guilty because one of you makes more money than the other, it can help to talk about it. And if you're the breadwinner and your partner's feeling guilty, you might remind them of the contributions they make outside of money. If they take care of the house, or the kids, or your elderly parents, or they're the ones who do all the planning or the household finances. Of course, this approach will only work if you do feel like they're contributing. But if not, that's worth a conversation, too. Another kind of financial guilt is the guilt you have from not spending more, right? From not giving more, for instance, to family members or to friends who have less than you.

• 18:56Marielle Segarra?

  How would you counsel clients who are feeling some of that guilt or responsibility?

• 19:00Speaker 02

  It's a conversation where we have to just kind of unroll the idea of, you know, who are these people that you feel obligated to? Why do you feel like you cannot enjoy what you have just because they don't? Why do you feel obligated to help them if that is something that you're feeling? And why do you feel obligated to, you know, to kind of over-save? Because that's something that I see quite a bit as well, is they're just not spending any money whatsoever because they feel guilty about enjoying. And so now they just have this stockpile of money, not because there's like a financial goal or a big savings goal that they have. It's just like, I don't feel good about spending it. And so the way to work through that piece of the puzzle is to think about this, like, okay, I don't feel good about spending this money, but so-and-so, you know, fill in the

• 19:45Speaker 02

  blank with the person that you, you know, think is lesser, less off, what would they want for you? How do they feel about you? When they look at you, do they, are you thinking that they want to see you fail? That they want to see you suffer? And so asking questions like that, sometimes you you get the the the answer pretty quickly. No, of course not. You know, my sisters don't want me to, you know, live in a cardboard box. They they want me to have a great life. Um, they want me to enjoy the fruits of my labor. And you know, I hear it all the time, even now, that I should work less. We have to like ask ourselves the hard question of like, where am I getting this narrative from? And then challenge ourselves so that you can decide, you know, is there really a good reason that I'm doing this?

• 20:29Marielle Segarra?

  Yeah. And how much do I want to set aside for them? Like, let's say you have like a niece or nephew, and I have some friends who are setting aside investment money for their niece or nephew's college, for instance. There's probably a more structured way to do it, you know, like where you're saying, okay, I am gonna give, but it's gotta be part of my budget and I have to be clear with myself about what the limits are.

• 20:58Speaker 02

  It almost always leads back to having a conversation with someone, whether that is a financial planner, it is um accountability partner, the person that, like I said, you feel obligated to. Um, but having the conversation and just getting it out there helps you unravel the idea that you're thinking. And once you've said it out loud and someone tells you like, hey, that that sounds preposterous, like, don't save all your money and never spend any of it because, you know, like you're already on track for retirement, like, let's go on vacation, like someone just like even telling you, giving you permission to do so, is so freeing sometimes that you're like, wow. Uh, but where does guilt come from frequently? Secrecy. And you're not talking to anyone about what you feel guilty about.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  And so you're just playing this narrative over and over again in your head when it's actually not true at all.

• 21:50Marielle Segarra?

  Takeaway five. If you feel guilt for spending money on yourself when you could be giving it to others, Lauren says, remember that being financially secure is not something to apologize for. And the most productive question to ask yourself in these cases is not, do I deserve this, but what am I going to do with what I have? Make sure your financial foundation is secure before you start giving your money away. She says if giving leaves you unable to pay your bills, build your emergency fund, or save for retirement, it may not be sustainable. And when you're deciding to give money to family and friends or to charitable groups, ask yourself what causes and people matter most to you and how you can give in a way that aligns with your values.

• 22:32Marielle Segarra?

  Also, Lauren recommends that you decide what you're comfortable giving before somebody asks, so your decisions are guided by your values rather than by emotion or pressure in the moment.

• 22:44Marielle Segarra?

  In one word, what would you say is the antidote to financial guilt?

• 22:49Speaker 02

  Education. Education gives you confidence, and confidence is the thing that allows you to get rid of the guilt.

• 22:55Marielle Segarra?

  I love that. I would say as a backup word, conversation.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 23:04Marielle Segarra?

  Lauren, thank you so much for this.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  Con gusto. This has been a great conversation.

• 23:09Marielle Segarra?

  I feel less guilty already.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  Yes, I like it. Mission accomplished.

• 23:16Marielle Segarra?

  I hope you enjoy the Asher concert.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  I do, too.

• 23:19Marielle Segarra?

  I'm sure he'll put on a great performance.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. I think he's a great performer.

• 23:25Marielle Segarra?

  All right, it's time for a recap. Takeaway one, remember your money mistakes do not determine your value as a person. Takeaway two, if you find yourself spending more than you have, you do want to go through and cut back, but that doesn't mean you have to deprive yourself of all joy. Set up a guilt-free spending bucket and decide what you want to spend money on based on your values. Takeaway three, do an audit of your finances to see where there's misalignment. What are you spending money on that you don't value? That's where you cut back. Takeaway four, if you or your partner are feeling guilty because one of you makes more money than the other, it can help to talk about it. And if you're the breadwinner and your partner is feeling guilty, you might remind them of the contributions they make outside of money.

• 24:10Marielle Segarra?

  And takeaway five, if you feel guilty for not giving away more of your money, first make sure you're able to take care of yourself and any dependents financially. Then ask yourself what and who matter most to you. And think about how much you're able to give before somebody asks. You want to make these decisions from a clear-headed place, not just because you feel guilty. That's our show. If Life Kit is a part of your weekly ritual, why not make it official on the NPR app? You'll hear about every episode the moment it's ready. Just turn on notifications and we will handle the rest. See you there. Download the NPR app today. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Claire Marie Schneider.

• 24:51Marielle Segarra?

  Our digital editor is Malika Garib, and our visuals editor is CJ Riechelmann. Megan Kane is our senior supervising editor, and Lauren Gonzalez is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tagel, Margaret Serino, and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Peter Alina. I'm Marielle Cigarrera. Thanks for listening.

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