Going beyond 'sorry for your loss' when a friend is grieving

When a friend's loved one has died, what do you do? Send flowers? Condolences? Distract them? It can be hard to know how to support a grieving friend. You want to be there for them, but you also know there's not much you can do to heal their pain. This episode, reporter Julia Furlan talks to grief experts about the most effective ways to show up for someone. And she shares insights from the times she's supported her own friends through their loss. This episode was originally published on Dec. 5, 2024. Follow us on Instagram: @nprlifekit https://www.instagram.com/nprlifekit/?hl=en Sign up for our newsletter here. https://www.npr.org/newsletter/life-kit Have an episode idea or feedback you want to share? Email us at [email protected] mailto:[email protected] Support the show and listen to it sponsor-free by signing up for Life Kit+ at plus.npr.org/lifekit http://plus.npr.org/lifekit See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Marielle Segarra?

  This message comes from Charles Schwab with their original podcast, Choiceology. Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind people's decisions. Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com/podcast.

• 0:17Marielle Segarra?

  You're listening to Life Kit from NPR.

• 0:23Marielle Segarra?

  Hey, everybody. It's Marielle. We're starting this episode in the top drawer of a dresser in reporter Julia Furlan's living room.

• 0:34Marielle Segarra?

  In that drawer is a small decorative bag filled with a few little things.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  Okay, here it is. I can't, I can't believe I found it.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  There's a pair of avocado socks. They're purple with little avocado.

• 0:48Marielle Segarra?

  Porchentilla fish. It's a miracle fish.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Night garden mix Hudson Valley Seed Company. Deep cleansing pink clay mud mask. Doesn't say when it expired. That says, "You're My Queen," featuring

• 1:06Speaker 01

  the Queen of England in a flower crown. I bought this when the Queen of England had not died.

• 1:12Marielle Segarra?

  Julia is describing a care package that she intended to send to her friend, whose mom passed away in 2022. She reported this episode in 2024.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  This bag represents a total fail in supporting my friend.

• 1:27Marielle Segarra?

  When you're grieving the loss of a loved one, I mean, it's overwhelming, right? It's all encompassing. And supporting someone through that can also be overwhelming and awkward. Like, you don't know the right thing to say, which is why you might end up with a care package in your drawer that you haven't sent.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  Don't be like me, folks.

• 1:48Marielle Segarra?

  On today's episode of Life Kit, we're talking about how to support people in your life who are grieving. We're going to hear from experts and folks who've lost a loved one about the ways that grief affected them and what kind of support they wanted.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors. This message comes from Charles Schwab with their original podcast, Choiceology. Hosted by Katie Milkman, an award-winning behavioral scientist and author of the bestselling book, How to Change, Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind people's decisions. Hear true stories from Nobel laureates, historians, authors, athletes, and more about how to make better decisions to help avoid costly mistakes. Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com/podcast or wherever you listen. This message comes from Quo. You run a job, in a meeting, slammed, and a customer calls. If nobody picks up, they go to your competitor.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  That's why over 90,000 companies choose Quo, the business phone system built for busy teams. Smart call routing sends calls to the right person. Shared numbers let your team cover for each other, and an AI agent picks up when nobody can, capturing every lead so nothing falls through the cracks. Always say hello with Quo. Try it free at quo.com/NPR. This message comes from Google Workspace with Gemini. One subscription that does it all. Personalized AI and premium business versions of Gmail, Google Docs, Drive, and more. Try it free for 14 days at goo.gle/workspacewithgemini.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  I started my reporting by calling up one of my dearest friends, Avi Wisnia.

• 3:45Speaker 03

  How am I doing today? I'm OK.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah.

• 3:51Speaker 03

  This season, you know, is when I lost both my brother and my father.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  So technically, I guess that means you're an expert. I'm sorry, and you're welcome.

• 4:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a weird thing to call an expert in grief, but I get it. I get it.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Avi lost his brother Dove to a brain tumor in 2012 and lost his dad Eric last year.

• 4:13Speaker 03

  So it's really interesting, like, the changing of the seasons itself brings out that time, like, the time when my brother got sick and then the time when... Like finding out that we suddenly lost my father. So it's strange to have it tied to like a season like that.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  When the leaves start falling, I always think about Avi's dad and brother, who were both incredibly charismatic people. And I think of how sometimes I felt a little uncomfortable about how to talk to him about these huge losses. Like, really, what could I ever say that would help?

• 4:51Speaker 04

  I think sometimes as a supporter, there's a lot of pressure that you place on yourself because in your mind, you may be thinking, I need to bring something. I need to say the right thing. I need to do this thing. When the truth is, there's nothing right that you can do.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  These wise words come from Dr. Mikael Harris, a psychologist and certified grief therapist and author of the book, Relaxing Into the Pain. And she says that supporting a person who's grieving isn't about saying the exact right thing at the exact right time. She says that supporting your grieving heart is about being a witness.

• 5:28Speaker 04

  And because of that, one of the best things you can do, which is gonna sound maybe paradoxical, is to actually bring up the loss.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  Dr. Harris says that our intention might be to avoid the loss in conversation because we don't want our grieving friend to remember it. But avoiding the topic doesn't actually make it go away. So our first takeaway is to be a witness to the grief. Don't be afraid to bring up the person they lost.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Avi actually said the same thing.

• 5:58Speaker 03

  Remembering my brother and remembering my father and hearing wonderful stories about them, like, I will never not want to hear that. I always want to hear good things and memories of them. Even if it makes me a little sad, I want to hear that. And I always appreciate it.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Grief is basically never over. For a person who's lost someone they love, their feelings about that loss unfurl throughout their life at their pace. And there's no specific timeline for that. So when you're supporting somebody and you feel awkward about how to bring it up, know that simply sharing a memory or making some space for them to talk about the person they lost is much better than avoiding it for fear of making them sad. Dr. Harris says even years or decades after a loss, they're still grieving that person in different ways and different moments. So chances are they're already thinking about the person they lost.

• 6:56Speaker 04

  You can't bring something up that hasn't already been thought of. And as a matter of fact, what a beautiful gift to actually highlight the loss so that the person grieving can talk about it, which de-stigmatizes grief and loss as a whole.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  And seeing someone in their grief doesn't mean you have to 100% understand what they're going through. It can be as simple as just saying it. Colloquially, sometimes you say, oh, I can't imagine what you're going through. I mean, that's what I often say, just as a manner of speech. But Dr. Harris actually suggests that saying that you can imagine how hard it is might be a better way to share their grief.

• 7:35Speaker 04

  So just to sort of give a tangible example of what witnessing is, just imagine if you and I were out, you know, on a beach and I look out into the water and I say, gosh, can you, can you see that in the distance? And you say, Mikel, I can, I can see it too. And we both sort of marvel at whatever that thing is out there.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  I also just want to say right now that a person's relationship to who they're grieving can be messy. There could be trauma in the loss or a relationship that was difficult in life that only feels more difficult after the person's passing. Acknowledging that complicated relationship or making space for a person to share about it is another way of witnessing. And just the same as you don't have to be the perfect supporter, the griefer doesn't have to be perfect in their grief either. If you're feeling awkward or as if you don't know what to say, I think it can be helpful to have some basic do's and don'ts. Which brings us to our second takeaway. There are helpful and unhelpful things to say when a person is grieving.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Now, everyone I spoke to for this episode felt misunderstood by one particular thing: platitudes. What do you think people get wrong about grief?

• 8:49Speaker 04

  Oh goodness. What immediately popped into my mind were cliches, right? So, at least they're in a better place.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  When you say like, "Oh, this happens for a reason," you like, I don't want my... Like, what was the reason my brother died? You know, that's like not... It's... Sometimes it actually doesn't make you feel better.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  "At least they're in a better place. Time heals all wounds." Clichés are impersonal, and they don't always make the person who's grieving feel seen. Now, it's okay if you've said one of these things before. I think I've probably done it myself. Sometimes a cliche will fly out of your mouth before you even know it. But when you're trying to support someone who's grieving, try to avoid phrases or sayings that aren't specific to them. Here are two things that you can avoid. First, anything that starts with "at least." Even if you don't mean to, that could really minimize the person's suffering. Same goes for "it could be worse." Remember, this could be the worst moment of their lives. They don't want to think about

• 9:58Speaker 01

  what could be worse. This is it. This is the worst part. The second thing to avoid is something like "God makes no mistakes." It might seem helpful, but to anyone who would prefer to, you know, be sitting with their loved one alive in that moment, it doesn't feel great to think about what kinds of things God did or didn't do on purpose. Now, here are some of the things that might be better to say. You can say "I love you." You can say "This is so hard, and I'm so sorry it's happening to you." Or you could simply say "I'm sorry." Ultimately, the exact words don't matter as much as being authentic, specific, and honest. And if you want to tell them that you don't have the right words, but that

• 10:42Speaker 01

  you care about them, that's a great place to start.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  I spoke to Marissa Renee Lee, who's a grief expert and author of the book, Grief is Love. Marissa says that there's a particular phrase that you can put in your text message that can really make people feel cared for.

• 10:57Speaker 05

  Hey, I'm just, I'm thinking of you, you know, I just want to see how you're doing. No need to respond.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  No need to respond. If you reach out and you make it clear that you're thinking of them, but they don't need to do anything, that can really lift a weight.

• 11:14Speaker 05

  I don't think I realized how much it mattered to other people, that specific framing of, you don't need to respond, until someone else called me out on it and told me how much it meant to them that, you know, they knew that I was there, but they didn't feel any obligation or responsibility or judgment or guilt around communicating what they were feeling.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Whether you're near or far from the grieving person, if you just release the other person from the pressure to respond, you're pouring your care into their well, and you're not taking anything from it, which is the point.

• 11:58Marielle Segarra?

  We'll have more Life Kit after the break.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors. This message comes from Charles Schwab with their original podcast, Choiceology, hosted by Katie Milkman, an award-winning behavioral scientist and author of the bestselling book, How to Change. Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind people's decisions. Hear true stories from Nobel laureates, historians, authors, athletes, and more about how to make better decisions to help avoid costly mistakes. Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com/podcast or wherever you listen. This message comes from Google Workspace with Gemini, one subscription that does it all. Personalized AI and premium business versions of Gmail, Google Docs, Drive, and

• 12:49Speaker 02

  more. Try it free for 14 days at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  One thing that all of the experts I spoke to stressed is that in the moment of grief, it can be really helpful to think about the person's immediate needs.

• 13:09Speaker 03

  My friends got me gift cards when my dad died. And it was like gift cards to, you know, like food delivery service to a specific place or just anytime I needed a meal. And I didn't even realize that I didn't have the energy to cook. I didn't have anything in the house. And it took that task, it made it so much easier.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Avi said that when you're grieving, basic tasks can feel almost impossible.

• 13:41Speaker 03

  You know, like when you do a physical activity or you're at work all day or you go on a hike, it takes energy out of you. And it feels like when you are grieving, you are just sapped of energy, even if you're not doing anything.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Grief takes energy. And that leads us to our third takeaway. Take care of some of the basic logistics for the person that you're supporting.

• 14:05Speaker 04

  Delivering food, taking care of cutting the lawn, walking a dog, picking up mail, dropping clothes off at cleaners.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  As my dad sometimes says, K I S S, keep it simple, stupid. You don't need to find the most perfect card or gift. It might just be enough to drop off a lasagna at their front door. Marissa says that in terms of support, grieving and welcoming new life have a lot in common.

• 14:30Speaker 05

  If your best friend has a baby, think about the things that you would do for them in that moment. You know, you might leave a meal. You might show up and hold the baby for a little while so they can take a shower or brush their teeth or whatever. And also think about the things that you would or would not expect from them.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Crucially, all of the experts I spoke with expressed this idea of expectation. Expect that the person is going to be unable to do some pretty basic stuff. So the things that you can offer can be pretty basic as well. If you come over to their house, maybe take out their trash or offer to walk their dog. Do a load of dishes if you see them in the sink.

• 15:13Speaker 05

  Do something practical. Take their kid out so that they can cry alone. Take their dog for a walk. Drop off a meal, ideally something that can be frozen or saved for a future date, because a lot of people bring food. Clean their house, like do something that makes living easier for them.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Make living easier for the person who's grieving. That feels simple. Avi told a story about our friend Emily. Hi Emily, shout out to you. So Avi's a musician and our friend Emily helped him realize that he wasn't going to be able to play a gig just days after his dad had died.

• 15:50Speaker 03

  And she said, you know, if you, if you need to cancel, like, that's okay. And I woke up that morning and I just, I felt like I couldn't do it.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Emily's voice was in Avi's head, reminding him that people would understand that he needed time.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  I just called her and I said, can you just call them and make sure it's taken care of? Like, I didn't want to leave them in alert, but I can't have that conversation.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  So Emily called and explained the situation and it was all okay.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  And it, it's just the relief I felt after knowing that I could lean on somebody in that way.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  The most meaningful actions don't have to be huge when they show the person that you really care about them. Another thing that Dr. Harris mentioned is that when you're in grief, you might be having to make logistical choices that are just really challenging.

• 16:42Speaker 04

  You're having to make decisions about funeral homes and services and hosting and all of these different things. Financial decisions that there's so much going on that it's such a gift to literally have a truncated choice.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  So as you're handling logistics, offer the person just a very simple choice so that they don't even have to think. Say something like, hey, do you want me to send you dinner or take your dog for a walk? And then they can say exactly what they need. And if you're not the kind of friend who does dishes or has a killer baked ziti, that's fine. Maybe they need you to come over and play video games or watch several hours of reality television. Whatever it is, stay true to who you are. And if you can take down the recycling on your way out the door, go for it.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  To any of you who maybe forgot to mail something the week after the funeral and have been kicking yourselves, I have news for you. Grief is forever. And that brings us to our next takeaway. Keep reaching out and offering your support.

• 17:40Speaker 04

  So often, after someone dies, in that first week, two weeks, month, we're getting phone calls, we're getting texts, we're getting meals, people are stopping by. And then typically, as time goes on, because life is continuing to move forward, the social support actually dwindles. And to the grieving heart, that can be devastating because if you think about this, this is another loss.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  After that last casserole has been thawed and things are a little quieter, the person who's grieving has still lost somebody. And your role might be showing up after six months or a year, just to see how things are going. So if you have a memory of the person that they lost or you come across a picture, go ahead and share it with them. Okay. I am at the post office. And in the interest of full transparency, I'm mailing the care package. Sure, it's been two and a half years, but why would I make this episode if I wasn't going to take my own advice? All right. The thing has been mailed. You will be surrounded by people who are grieving, at work, at school, and in your various friend and family groups.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  And in a perfect world, maybe the kind of world I want to live in, grief is a community task. And it's okay to play your role in it. Dr. Harris talked about it as a ring of concentric circles.

• 19:01Speaker 04

  And as you think about that person grieving at the center and then sort of moving out into these other levels of care, these circles, it really is beautiful when we fashion it that way because we realize that a supervisor has a role to play, a coworker has a role to play, siblings have a role to play, the neighbor has a role to play.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Depending on your relationship to the person who's grieving, you can show up the way that it makes sense. Marissa told me a story about when she lost her mom. She was barely 25 and working on Wall Street. There was another woman on the team who was a bit younger than Marissa, but this woman had lost a brother, so she knew how grief worked.

• 19:40Speaker 05

  And so when I came back to work, and this is one of those things that even all these years later, I still get choked up over because it was just so sweet. But one of the things that was left at my desk was a mix CD that she made for me. Because again, this was a long time ago, folks. And some candy.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  You don't have to be somebody's best friend in the world to reach out when they're grieving. In fact, you could be the kind of person who makes Marissa happy cry about Sour Patch Kids more than a decade later.

• 20:11Speaker 05

  It was authentic to me, to her, to our relationship, which wasn't super deep. You know, she didn't leave me a letter that was three pages long about how much she loved me and loved my mom, because she couldn't do that.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  Making a small gesture that says, "I see you," can really make an impression on the person who's grieving.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Avi's brother was diagnosed with a brain tumor in 2007 at 28 years old. And he had a surgery where they got most of it, which at the time seemed pretty good.

• 20:44Speaker 03

  And I remember talking with him after the surgery. And I asked him, "So what like happened to that part of your brain where like the tumor was? Does it just like fill back in?" And he said, "No, there's just like a hole there."

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Five years later, the tumor came back and it was inoperable. So Avi's brother Dove slowly lost his ability to function.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  And then he died. I realized like, wow, there's this hole in my heart that will never be filled in. And it will always be there. And I'm just gonna have to walk through life with this hole in my heart and figure out how to function with it.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  When somebody is grieving, their world, their heart, has a hole in it. And if you're supporting them, you're never gonna fill that hole or make the pain go away. But you can be there to witness it and hold that pain.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Knowing that you don't have to be perfect, let's look at the ways of supporting folks in your life who are grieving. Takeaway one, witness the grief and don't be afraid to bring up the person that they lost. Takeaway two, saying something can feel awkward. Avoid platitudes and be as specific as possible, even if it's simple. Takeaway three, give practical support as much as you can. Takeaway four, keep reaching out over time. Everyone has a role to play in supporting the grieving person. So Avi is a musician and songwriter, so I asked him for a song that might play us out that speaks to the grief that he carries.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  So to all of you who are grieving and supporting grief, this is for you.

• 22:57Marielle Segarra?

  That was reporter Julia Furlan. And that's our show. Just a reminder that you can sign up for Life Kit Plus to support our work at NPR and to get curated playlists on popular Life Kit topics. Start listening today at plus.npr.org/lifekit. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Margaret Serino. It was edited by Sylvie Douglas. Our digital editor is Malika Garib and our visuals editor is CJ Riechelmann. Megan Kane is our senior supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tagle and Claire Marie Schneider. Engineering support comes from David Greenberg. I'm Marielle Segarra. Thanks for listening.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors. This message comes from Charles Schwab with their original podcast, Choiceology, hosted by Katie Milkman, an award-winning behavioral scientist and author of the bestselling book, How to Change. Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind people's decisions. Hear true stories from Nobel laureates, historians, authors, athletes, and more about how to make better decisions to help avoid costly mistakes. Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com/podcast or wherever you listen.

• 24:20Speaker 06

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