Last Update on the Left - Episode 18 - Haunted Objects: An Interview with Greg and Dana Newkirk

The boys are joined by Greg and Dana Newkirk to discuss the world of Paranormal Investigation and their love of Haunted Objects!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Henry Zebrowski?

  Welcome to the last update on the left. You see?

• 0:17Speaker 01

  That was pretty good.

• 0:18Henry Zebrowski?

  You see, Marcus?

• 0:19Speaker 01

  So far, so good.

• 0:20Speaker 02

  So far, so good. The first six words have gone quite well.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was almost a sentence.

• 0:24Henry Zebrowski?

  These guys, they tried to, last time I did this, they put pressure on me.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  I didn't put pressure on you.

• 0:31Henry Zebrowski?

  They said I was gonna screw up. I'm welcome to the last update on the left!

• 0:36Speaker 02

  I made a very simple request for you to take the lead.

• 0:38Henry Zebrowski?

  And you then, you mocked me for my quick jumping.

• 0:45Speaker 02

  You did a bad job.

• 0:46Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, because I'm still learning.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  You haven't even gotten through introducing this show.

• 0:51Henry Zebrowski?

  My name is Henry Zebrowski. My name is Henry Zebrowski. I made it this far. I'm sitting here with?

• 0:58Speaker 02

  Marcus Parks.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  And Ed Larson. I was kinda hoping you'd say my name.

• 1:01Henry Zebrowski?

  He did it. He did it and you did it. No, you gotta say, I leave it open, so you could do a little bit.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  Okay, now we're learning your style, okay.

• 1:10Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, I'm leaving it open so you could do a fun little tag.

• 1:12Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:13Henry Zebrowski?

  I'm sitting here with?

• 1:15Speaker 02

  Marcus Park.

• 1:16Henry Zebrowski?

  And?

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Ed Larson. I like him. Bang, bang, bang, bang.

• 1:19Henry Zebrowski?

  Empty. I can't believe it, the first time you're talking to these guys. I am very pleased to have one of my favorite couples, because largely, I hate couples. But it's so nice to meet good, friendly, you're very, you look visibly in love, which is nice to see. This is Greg and Dana Newkirk.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 1:43Henry Zebrowski?

  Now, to try to kinda put it in there, I don't know how to sum up. You guys are a part of Weird HQ, Planet Weird, right? All of your various, like, that's your production company, would you say, like Planet Weird?

• 1:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. Planet Weird's the top of the umbrella.

• 1:57Henry Zebrowski?

  Yes, and then you guys, now, your new, not new, but new to us podcast, Haunted Objects, is gonna be on SpectreVision, their new podcast app.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  You got it. It's available now.

• 2:08Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, I nailed it.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  Nice work.

• 2:10Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  Good job.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Speaking of nails.

• 2:12Henry Zebrowski?

  Christ.

• 2:12Speaker 03

  Christ on the cross?

• 2:14Speaker 01

  No, they're fucking, they're documentary, The Unbinding.

• 2:17Henry Zebrowski?

  I love The Unbinding. Amazing segue, Marcus. No, I, I would love to ask a bunch of questions. So we got Eddie here. Eddie's a new boy to the paranormal world. And so a lot of this stuff is gonna, he's being introduced for the first time. And so, when we did, earlier this year, we did a series on haunted objects. And the first people I thought to call, to try to help me understand and make a good, kind of, perfunctory explanation of the mechanism of the haunting of an object, was you guys. And you guys thankfully picked up the call.

• 2:49Speaker 03

  We're flattered.

• 2:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:50Henry Zebrowski?

  Yes, now I wanna know?

• 2:52Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:52Speaker 04

  Anytime.

• 2:53Henry Zebrowski?

  On haunted objects. So now it's like, do you feel like your whole life has become haunted objects?

• 2:57Speaker 03

  You know, it's funny, because we take a very liberal approach to what the idea of a haunted object is on the show at least. Anything that's haunted by a story is a haunted object.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Great. That's interesting. Like, haunt, but like, when you say like haunted by a story, I guess, like, is, something that's haunted by a story, like, do you think that that has some sort of like psychic effect on the people that are around it? Is that what the haunting is? Is the story itself, is just how we react to the story?

• 3:26Speaker 03

  Yes, but in the case of the show, we just wanted the ability to talk about UFOs and Bigfoot.

• 3:31Henry Zebrowski?

  How do I open this up? What you do is you keep it real general. Yeah, eventually you're gonna become like HOP. That's the goal. You gotta get yourself to, there's no name, it's just the letters, so that you can be about whatever it wants.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  We're working on it.

• 3:45Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 3:45Speaker 04

  Almost there.

• 3:46Speaker 03

  But, but, you are correct. I, I do think, you know, we have a slightly different opinion about how objects become haunted than I think most people who would consider themselves paranormal researchers. We really do believe that it is the intention that we place on things and the feelings and emotions that we attach to things that end up lingering and potentially affecting other people down the line. I think that's how haunted objects happen.

• 4:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, one of the things that we experience, so most of the objects, if not almost all of them, in the museum have been donated. So they've been donated to us from other people. And one of the things that we've come to realize, more often than not, is when someone donates something to the museum, even if they've had their own personal experience with that object, it doesn't always necessarily mean that we will.

• 4:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:31Speaker 04

  So for the most part, one of the ways that we think about what we do is really kind of curating stories, curating people's experiences.

• 4:39Henry Zebrowski?

  And you also do a live show.

• 4:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:42Henry Zebrowski?

  And it's sort of like a roadshow with these objects. Now?

• 4:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:45Henry Zebrowski?

  As you take them out, how does it change people's, like, either reaction to the objects or the objects' reactions to people?

• 4:54Speaker 03

  Well, we have a few artifacts that when people spend a lot of time around them, they do seem, when we bring them back home from tour?

• 5:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:02Speaker 03

  Like, they are, they feel like they're charged up, I guess, for lack of a better term.

• 5:05Speaker 04

  We joke, we have an object in the museum, it's called the Black Mirror, and it's a scrying mirror. It's one of the objects that people can kind of handle and, and look in. And we kind of refer to it as like the kid that you don't let your kid hang out with, because it's like a bad influence on the other objects.

• 5:20Speaker 03

  Well, I think too, when you've got people who are using it.

• 5:22Speaker 04

  It's a battery.

• 5:23Speaker 03

  We want people to have an experience. Like, that's the point of the roadshow. We wanna give people an experience. So, you know, sometimes when people are using that mirror and you've got hundreds of people gazing into it and thinking about the things that they're afraid of, that stuff sticks around, and, and it lingers. And, uh, the big point of the roadshow really is to show people how powerful their own minds are.

• 5:46Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 5:47Speaker 03

  You know, the big, the big thing we do at the end of the tour, at the end of the show, is we have the audience help us haunt an object.

• 5:54Henry Zebrowski?

  Yes.

• 5:55Speaker 03

  Like, the goal is to dethrone Annabelle. We want the most haunted objects in the world.

• 6:00Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, we wanna help.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  That's, that's the point. And it's all through what we believe and what we place onto things.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's what I find fascinating about that, is that you're, you truly are the anti-Warrens.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  Uh, that's, thank you!

• 6:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:15Speaker 03

  Somebody gets it!

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, the Warrens took all these haunted objects and they locked them in a basement, and they talk about how dangerous all of them are, and you can't touch anything. And somebody once made fun of a doll, so they died in a motorcycle accident 20 minutes later. You know, but you're taking these objects on, you're, you're taking these objects on the road so people can have an experience with them. Like, what experience are you hoping people, what experience? Like, are you hoping people have a certain experience with it, or is it just sort of, whatever happens, happens?

• 6:50Henry Zebrowski?

  I mean, it'd be great for content if a guy just spontaneously shits his pants. Like, you're like, thank you!

• 6:57Speaker 03

  It's happened.

• 6:58Speaker 04

  It has literally happened.

• 6:59Speaker 03

  Literally happened.

• 7:00Henry Zebrowski?

  Please, please, continue to tell the story, if you would.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  What we want from people is we want people to choose curiosity instead of fear.

• 7:07Henry Zebrowski?

  Cool.

• 7:08Speaker 03

  And one of the things that people are constantly doing in, in the paranormal realm is they're constantly trying to make you afraid, either because they think that that's a way that they can make money from you, or they can sell you their religion, or whatever it is. And we're constantly, like, we don't do home investigations for people, we don't do any of that type of stuff. People get frustrated, because we're like, you know, if you're, if you're experiencing a ghost, you should talk to it. They're like, what?

• 7:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:35Speaker 03

  Talk to it. See what, see what this is, this experience is trying to tell you about yourself. So all we're ever trying to do is give people a sense of, um, of control that they often lack in, in situations that are scary. And if you can teach someone to be curious about the monster under their bed, then, you know, their neighbor who has a different belief system is a little less scary to them. Uh, that's the whole point of everything we're always trying to do.

• 8:02Henry Zebrowski?

  That's cool.

• 8:02Speaker 03

  And, you know, I'd rather the, have fun in the paranormal.

• 8:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:06Speaker 03

  You know, just be scared all the time? Like, come on.

• 8:09Henry Zebrowski?

  Are there Caspers? Are there friendly ghosts?

• 8:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. Uh, we're doing it, we're doing an experiment in the museum right now.

• 8:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's a great example.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  Where we are taking the Philip experiment, which was a very famous experiment done in the 70s and the 80s by the Toronto Society for Psychical Research, where they created a ghost with their mind.

• 8:29Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, this is the famous Tulpah.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly. Aggregor, whatever you wanna call it. Uh, we decided to do that with several hundred people haunting bags of ramen noodles. And now, people are sending us videos of their bags crinkling on their own.

• 8:47Speaker 04

  People are capturing evidence. Yeah, they literally are sending us, like, audio recordings, videos of their bags of ramen behaving in very strange ways.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Haunting on a budget.

• 8:58Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Like, Toaster loves Jackie Wilson. Like, it's what it sounds like.

• 9:03Henry Zebrowski?

  It is, it's fun. A little man eating toaster trip. Yeah, yeah. My question is, is that so? Is there no such thing as an objective haunting?

• 9:13Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 9:14Henry Zebrowski?

  Is there no such thing like if a room, if an, I guess, what does it even matter? Right? If an object's a room alone, you know, it's the same thing as a tree alone in the forest.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  Well, it's, it's the old, it's the old classifications of, you know, the, your intelligent haunting, your, um,

• 9:29Henry Zebrowski?

  But that seems like that's ancient news now.

• 9:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I think, I mean, we've experienced that type of thing and, and, I mean, I, I wouldn't be able to give you an honest answer. I can't say definitively, no, there's no such thing as a classical ghost. I think I've experienced them. I've seen full body apparitions that I, I know I didn't make an impression of that thing. I don't know who did. So I, I think, I do think that there are certain types of, of psychic events that can create an imprint that can last. And whether that's intelligent or whether that's just like something that replays like a tape, uh, I don't know. I've had, had interactive experiences with, with things people would call ghosts.

• 10:11Speaker 03

  But, uh, these days I have a very difficult time believing that people just kinda hang out when they die. That seems really cynical. I think it could be shades of us, bits of us.

• 10:23Speaker 04

  I think the longer we do this, the more we realize how much the mind really does play a huge part in paranormal experiences and in paranormal phenomena just in general. So I think that those classical identifiers, like an intelligent haunting or whatever they are, they're kind of really, they're useful, I think, still, but I think we have to sort of change the way we think about them. Because if our mind is involved in the process, maybe those are really good classifications for maybe reasons why we might see those types of things. Do you know what I mean? So like, maybe we're bringing that to the experience.

• 10:56Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, because without us, there are no ghosts. There are no cryptids. There is, without us looking and seeing them.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  Exactly. That's the perfect segue to what we're always trying to, to instill in people is, you know, the old, the old story is that ghosts are around because they have unfinished business.

• 11:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  I think that ghosts are around because we have unfinished business.

• 11:15Henry Zebrowski?

  Oh.

• 11:16Speaker 03

  I think we're the people who like, you know, when you hear stories about people who've seen their loved ones after they've passed away, usually they weren't able to be there with them when they passed away, or they were on the other side of the country.

• 11:28Speaker 04

  Or they're still, they're, it's part of the grieving process too, that, that they're still in the, the state of grief. And so having those types of experiences can be really cathartic for people.

• 11:38Speaker 03

  And that's not to say that they're not real. I wanna make that clear. I, I,

• 11:42Speaker 04

  They're just weirder than we've sort of given them, uh, you know, we, we've classified them as in the past, I think. But one of the things like we, you know, one of the things Greg and I will say all the time is we'll never speak in absolutes pretty much about anything when it comes to this kind of stuff. But I think that's great because it gives us so much room for experimenting and theories and ideas.

• 12:01Speaker 03

  Play both sides.

• 12:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:02Henry Zebrowski?

  You find, I love playing both sides. And I specifically believe in a Ronton, a robot, a Robert Anton Wilson style pan-agnostic existence. But don't you, but don't you find that that makes people like angry?

• 12:15Speaker 04

  For us, it's super does.

• 12:17Speaker 03

  Of course, because you are challenging something that people have built up almost like a religious belief. You know, the idea that your soul lingers after you, you've died, if you have unfinished business. People don't like to think about that differently, but I think it, it's a beautiful idea to think that maybe there's something about ghosts that's evolutionary and happens because we have had an interrupted grieving process. And you get to maybe experience a, a, a last chance to say goodbye to somebody. Or maybe there's something that, uh, you actually can help with and it has more to do with you than it does with the ghost. Um, I think a lot of the times when we are, are called and people ask us questions about what to do about a ghost,

• 13:00Speaker 03

  uh, you know, like I said, we say, well, go talk to it. And they're like, well, no, why would I do that? And like, well, don't you wanna figure out why this ghost is there? Usually if you talk to it and you find out what it's trying to get you to do and you do it, it goes away.

• 13:15Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 13:15Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  You don't need a priest. You just need to pay attention to what this thing is trying to tell you.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, earlier, you, you know, you mentioned, um, a psychical research organization. You know, you mentioned they, you know, that they were trying to create that, or that they created a tulpa.

• 13:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  Way back when. And that's one of the things that like I, I really wanted to ask you about is that I, I, I watch things like, you know, that new Infield Poltergeist, um, documentary that came out. It's so fucking good.

• 13:42Speaker 03

  The one on Apple?

• 13:43Speaker 02

  The one on Apple, yeah.

• 13:44Speaker 03

  It was so great, right?

• 13:45Henry Zebrowski?

  It was great.

• 13:46Speaker 02

  Incredible. Um, so were those guys back, the guys like Maurice Gross and, and Guy Playfair? And, you know, and all, back in the seventies, when these psychical research foundations were around, when universities had these, you know, actual departments for all of this, were those, were, was anybody on to something? In your opinion?

• 14:07Speaker 03

  I think so for sure.

• 14:08Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 14:09Speaker 03

  And, and there's, there's still, you can find the traces of that stuff that still exists. I mean, you, you look at people like, uh, Dr. Dean Raden, uh, who works for the, uh, Newitic Sciences Institute. He's done, uh, all kinds of research on the idea of intention and on, on psychic ability. And they can pretty reliably prove to a higher degree than aspirin works, that there is some kind of sixth sense. And I think that all paranormal phenomena that we experience personally comes from that sixth sense. I think that the mind is the mechanism by which the paranormal displays itself. Uh, and, I mean, you can get, you know, weird and Jungian with it if you want. And the idea that, you know, issues that we're experiencing as a culture appears UFOs.

• 14:55Speaker 03

  But I think that it's, I think psychical research, they absolutely were and still are on to something. We just can't seem to figure out the mechanism because consciousness is so hard to crack. We don't know how to figure it out.

• 15:09Henry Zebrowski?

  It's because it's so hard to look into consciousness with our consciousness. Exactly.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  I mean, for me though, like the way I kinda look at it is that it, it's that we don't have the language yet to measure anything because we don't know what we're measuring.

• 15:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Like, so you can't say, like, you can't say that we've just experienced 15 chronons of energy, like, like this.

• 15:29Henry Zebrowski?

  I just did.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  There's, there's just no, there, there's no measurement for it.

• 15:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  Like, and I think like, once they figure, someone figures out a measurement, then maybe we can start making some headway. Do you have a measurement?

• 15:42Speaker 04

  I love that question. And one of the things that I think about and we talk about a lot is this idea that as paranormal investigators, one of the best things that we can do collectively is to study the occult and to kind of go into some of those worlds that might seem a little bit frightening. You might not understand any things about them necessarily, but what we're doing is we're kind of allowing, and also to kind of experiment and, and explore through the world of archetypes. And I think that really what we're doing is giving our brain, giving our consciousness a larger lexicon with which to pull from when it comes to these types of experiences.

• 16:21Speaker 04

  So the more we can, uh, we can kind of tread outside of the, the current, uh, lane, the current road of where paranormal investigation goes, I think the bigger the lexicon we can build within our own consciousness and the better chance that we have of having stranger, more complex, interesting paranormal experiences, I think, present themselves in that, in that case.

• 16:44Henry Zebrowski?

  But do you find that with the more complex and strange, especially documenting it, that it, like, The Unbinding is a classic example of you start at one point, you guys have been doing these great things with all of your documentaries. You start at a point and it zigzags back and forth, and then it comes back to the point again. Then it comes back, which I think is great, but I also think it's, it's shows how circuitous and interesting a paranormal investigation, a full-throated paranormal investigation can be. But how do you tell people like, it's, unfortunately, I do wish it was the Avengers. I wish there was an evil thing that we could defeat and put it in a box and then it's done. It just doesn't really work like that.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  Well, for those of us, so those of our listeners who haven't seen The Unbinding, right? Tell, tell everyone what the, what the documentary is all about.

• 17:34Speaker 03

  This was a documentary that kinda came out of nowhere. We, we receive stuff constantly, all the time. And one of the things that we received, I mean, 99% of the stuff that people send to us, it doesn't do anything for us. I believe people when they say that they've experienced weird things with it. Cause I think they're the ones who've typically put whatever impression on it. Uh, but most of that stuff doesn't do much for us. So a lot of it, of what we do is just putting stuff on a shelf and keeping it out of sight and out of mind.

• 18:01Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, we're all, we're all tchotchke people. I have so much evil tchotchkes in my house.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Someone once sent us a, someone once sent us a teddy bear that they swore was the most evil thing in all existence. And it just sat in a fucking box. And like, it was on a shelf for a while, then it sat in a box and now it's in a fucking landfill.

• 18:18Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, I have that haunted, that haunted Ouija board just sitting in my home.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  It's not in a landfill, it's a storage space somewhere.

• 18:28Speaker 03

  I mean, and that's common. I don't, I think that you're the one who has to attach the feeling to it. Unless it's something, something that has a much bigger feeling attached to it. Maybe you get to feel that and occasionally we do. And we were sent a carved wooden figure that maybe about a foot tall. And it had a noose around its neck and six nails driven into the eyes. And immediately we knew something was different about this thing because Jesus got ripped off of a cross that was on a wall, which was really strange. We couldn't figure out how that happened. We have footage of this thing like moving. It's not, you know.

• 19:11Henry Zebrowski?

  It's good. It is good footage.

• 19:13Speaker 03

  But it's creepy.

• 19:14Henry Zebrowski?

  It's real. Yes.

• 19:15Speaker 03

  Weird wet footprints appearing in the house that really freaked everybody out. Our friend Jason, you might remember from Hellier. He got hypnotized in Hellier to believe he was abducted by aliens. Well, we torture him again and he ends up having this

• 19:33Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, it was great.

• 19:33Speaker 03

  This thing come into his house and like lean over his baby's crib. There was a lot of really strange stuff that made us take this a little more seriously. And frankly, that, that investigation changed the way that I feel about ghosts. Because we eventually realized it's not what everybody thinks it is. And this was actually a sacred image to a particular group of people. And it needed to go back to where it was stolen from. And that's pretty much what this is about. And as soon as that thing was back, everything stopped.

• 20:06Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 20:07Speaker 03

  So it occurs to us later, oh, this is an archetypal journey that we needed to complete in order for whatever this cycle this thing was stuck in. Whatever it needed to go away and to be done. And, and I think we see that a lot with people who have hauntings in general. There's some cycle that they're stuck in. And I've, I believe now, I think we both do, that a lot of paranormal phenomena is spontaneous, initiatory experience. And you can either ignore it.

• 20:42Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 20:43Speaker 03

  And then it'll get worse. Like if you're not being listened to, what do you do? You raise your voice. It'll do that until you either get rid of the thing or you are so good at ignoring it, it goes away. Or you can listen to what it's trying to tell you and you can take that archetypal journey and come out of it a different person and that stops.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  And then for you, the object, but listening to it meant returning it.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  To where it came from.

• 21:07Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Putting it back to where it was taken from. And we, you know, one of the things that we found out is that it was, it was a desecrated altar piece.

• 21:16Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 21:17Speaker 03

  For, for worshiping an old Ukrainian goddess.

• 21:20Speaker 04

  Very interesting.

• 21:20Speaker 03

  And somebody, I mean, the town that it came from, we didn't even realize this till we went to this town. It has like the third highest Ukrainian born population in the United States. And so there's this weird thing that starts to happen when you follow where these things are taking you is you start to get like self referential evidence after the fact. Things that you couldn't have known start to happen. And then, you know, the reason we made a documentary about the, the crone, the unbinding is because by the time we had finished it, all of this new stuff comes flooding in. Like literally the last part of the documentary is us, while we're shooting the documentary, learning more things that relate to why this thing was probably upset.

• 22:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  Or the people who used it in their worship were upset and we kind of got some of that runoff.

• 22:10Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah. But why, what makes one of them work and one of them not work? What makes a little god, what doesn't?

• 22:17Speaker 03

  Belief.

• 22:17Henry Zebrowski?

  But it's like, I do feel like there are people that do believe across the board. Like, like I don't think that this, the belief is separate, but there are certain things that's for some reason get charged.

• 22:27Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 22:28Henry Zebrowski?

  And I wonder why something like the crone piece gets charged and then something else doesn't.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Well, Dana, I mean, I think it might go back to what you were talking about earlier with, you know, the occult. You know, instead of the occult, because this seems like there's a lot of folk magic.

• 22:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  Involved in this.

• 22:44Speaker 04

  I was gonna say, and I think the thing too, that's interesting about the crone immediately is there is a lot of, right out of the gate, there's a lot of kind of religious iconography that is desecrated, which is a very, regardless of what your religious beliefs are, you never really want to see anything like that. Like that's kind of an alarming thing. And so I

• 23:03Henry Zebrowski?

  It's not a good sign.

• 23:04Speaker 04

  Not a good sign.

• 23:05Henry Zebrowski?

  Even though I don't like Jesus Christ, but watching one flip around on a crucifix, I know it's not good.

• 23:14Speaker 04

  But it's right out of the gate, right? We have like all of this baggage already showing up. So you have, you know, religious iconography being desecrated. You have folk magic, you have some, you have an object itself. Like when you look at the crone, it looks, it looks like an act of violence has been, has been done to it. There are nails in the eyes, there's a noose around the neck. So you have a visceral experience, like reaction to it right away as opposed to like, here's a creepy grandma doll or whatever it is. It's something that like, when you look at it, it's really, even if you don't know anything about the occult or you're not, you don't know anything about folk magic or magic in general. It's pretty hard to deny that there seems to be something very distinct going on with it.

• 23:55Speaker 04

  And I think sometimes all of that extra that we bring to the, the experience itself sometimes I think can be a bit of a battery where we're just kind of supercharging something. And, but the crone, I mean, we always, it's, we describe it as she just, she had the juice. Like it was just, it was an object that was just very active. But for whatever reason, I think that after the fact, we, I think can collectively understand why. But at the time, it was sort of like just one thing after the other. And we were looking at each other going, okay, well, this is a legitimately very strange one. Like we are, we're having experiences that are tough for us to not only go through, but explain to each other.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I think in terms of like, why are some things so juiced up and others aren't?

• 24:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:44Speaker 03

  I think it really depends on how many people are feeding it.

• 24:47Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 24:48Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  And we realize now, well, you know, maybe publicizing this thing as much as we were before we made the documentary, you know, sharing that story with so many people as we did, it frightened people. And the more frightened people you have, I mean, here's a great example. Look at the Dibbik box.

• 25:03Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 25:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:03Speaker 03

  The Dibbik box, the guy who created it came out and said it wasn't real. And yet tons of people are experiencing really scary things around it because they're feeding it. And, and now there's people going to a museum, just like feeding that fear constantly. Of course it's going to keep happening.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's incredible how much power can be behind the simple human thought of, I don't like that thing.

• 25:25Henry Zebrowski?

  Oh, yeah. I think it's most of it.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cause it's not necessarily like a single soul possessing this thing.

• 25:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. Sure. Sure. I mean, I, you know, people ask us all the time, like, how does this, how does that ghost get it in there? And I don't necessarily think that that's how it works. I think it's a telephone to something that's maybe floating around in the mass unconscious.

• 25:45Speaker 04

  Like a placeholder sort of.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. I have a weird question. So we talked about energy and ghosts and us perceiving and like, we might be creating the ghosts in our own minds in a way. Is there any proof to the existence of souls? Like, like do like

• 26:04Henry Zebrowski?

  This is a hard hitting question to the New Kids.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  I'm curious.

• 26:07Henry Zebrowski?

  Can you find the weight of a soul?

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Like, yeah, no, but seriously though, like

• 26:13Speaker 04

  It's the ultimate question.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  If a ghost like, isn't like, do we all like, or is it just our brains are wired different?

• 26:19Henry Zebrowski?

  We technically lose

• 26:20Speaker 01

  A little like clear monster inside of us.

• 26:22Henry Zebrowski?

  We lose like a microgram of this.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  24 grams?

• 26:26Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah. There's like, we lose this little weight.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Is that real?

• 26:30Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Who's weighed while they die?

• 26:33Henry Zebrowski?

  I actually, I believe that Richard Simmons requested it.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  You ask that question, you ask that question, the only, the first thing that comes to my mind, you say, are we wired differently? I'm like, I don't know if we're wired differently. Dogs can see ghosts.

• 26:48Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  Gats can see ghosts.

• 26:49Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  Like, you know, what, is it our brains or?

• 26:52Speaker 01

  All right. Well, before we get into whether dogs have souls, I need to find out if I do.

• 26:58Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, yeah. I already care about my dogs more than myself.

• 27:03Henry Zebrowski?

  Immediately skipping you.

• 27:07Speaker 03

  Let's take a look at that thought and reinterpret what a soul is. A soul, you know, when you think about it, everybody thinks about a soul as like something that resides in your chest, you know, the thing that's in there that gives us, you know, life and life after death.

• 27:22Speaker 04

  And religion and culture have defined it in many different ways throughout time, all, you know, all across the board.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  I think that what we would refer to as a soul actually exists in our mind. And I think that, and this might sound wild until you look at the research, I think that we are all connected to the earth's magnetic field. And there's a guy by the name of Dr. Michael Persinger, he passed away several years ago. If you're familiar with the God helmet, have you ever seen the God helmet?

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  The idea being that if you run a certain set of magnets and a certain set of chirp signal on somebody's brain, you know, they will have religious experiences, ghostly experiences, things like that. One of the things that Persinger used to talk about, and there's a fantastic lecture that you can see from Laurentian University, it's on YouTube, it's called No More Secrets. And what he does, he actually does the math to show that the earth's magnetic field actually has resonance with our skulls. Our brains actually have magnetite in them. Our brains actually produce electricity. So because there's a resonance there, he did the math to show that the earth's magnetic field

• 28:37Speaker 03

  would be enough to hold all of the experiences of every person who has ever lived and probably ever will. And you can upload and download to that magnetic field in about seven minutes. And it usually happens when your, your, your mind is in a state of dreaming. Sometimes when you're on particular drugs, you're in states of stress, and those high stress environments actually create what he believes is an upload and a download. And when you think about places that are typically haunted, they're places where you walk into them and you automatically get a feeling.

• 29:13Speaker 04

  The example that we always give is Gettysburg.

• 29:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:16Speaker 04

  Regardless, if you go to Gettysburg, you can, you, you feel, whether you're someone who believes that they're psychic, or, you know, anything like that, when you go there, you immediately feel like something really bad happened here. You just sort of innately feel it. I think most people can when you go and visit.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  Oh, no, I had that when I, I went to Auschwitz. You feel it.

• 29:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 29:36Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, Gettysburg and Auschwitz aren't haunted, then nothing is.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  But, but think about this, you can feel the same thing when you go into, I mean, I'm not a religious guy, but when I go into a beautiful church, I can feel the reverence there.

• 29:49Henry Zebrowski?

  The sense of awe.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 29:51Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 29:52Speaker 04

  People have brought so much into that space.

• 29:54Henry Zebrowski?

  And it's a charred symbol. Talk about charred symbolism.

• 29:57Speaker 03

  Exactly. There you go. You want to talk about a haunted object?

• 29:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  The cross.

• 30:00Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, there's a dead guy right up there.

• 30:02Speaker 03

  Absolutely. It's almost like there's places where certain things happen to enough people that it leaves an impression that says, hey, maybe this place where a bunch of you died is a place you should be worried and scared of going.

• 30:13Speaker 04

  Yeah. So sort of in essence, there might be like an evolutionary component to it where it's like all, many of us.

• 30:20Henry Zebrowski?

  It's trying to protect us.

• 30:21Speaker 04

  Exactly. Think about, here's, here's another really good example. A lot of people are afraid of spiders, or a lot of people are really afraid of snakes. And they're obviously, you know, kind of creepy and some people don't like them, but maybe there's an aspect of that that's left over evolutionarily for us to recognize, like, these things would have been very dangerous for us potentially if we were living outside, if we were not protected, if we did not have shelter. So maybe there's an aspect of that that sort of exists within us, within our consciousness, that's just sort of plugged in there, that we know innately because it's happened to so many other people that it's just sort of baked into our consciousness at this point.

• 30:59Speaker 03

  So if we have a soul.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:01Speaker 03

  I think it's up there.

• 31:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:03Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, I think so too. I think it's in the cloud. It's a wifi.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  I mean, that's been my.

• 31:07Henry Zebrowski?

  It's in the cloud.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  I mean, personally, I mean, that's been my belief, like, as far as like exorcisms go for a long time, you know, when they say that people have, you know, they speak languages that they've never heard before, or they know personal information about people in the room. Like, I think there is something about someone who's, you know, supposedly, you know, quote unquote, possessed, people in an extremely high stress situation, as you said, something cracks open and a bunch of weird.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  The radio gets tuned.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, a bunch of weird, something cracks up in their brain and a bunch of weird shit gets poured in.

• 31:38Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, that's why my best.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  And they have to be pulled back.

• 31:40Henry Zebrowski?

  My best improv is when I'm under financial duress.

• 31:45Henry Zebrowski?

  My back is really against the wall. Financially, medically, spiritually. I wanted to do, before we lose you, I wanted to do a quick, a couple round Robins. We go like, this is a lightning round for you guys.

• 31:57Speaker 04

  Oh, man.

• 31:58Henry Zebrowski?

  Opinions to serve to add on certain topics. We're aware of the current comments by former CIA operative Jim Semivan about the current, because I know you guys are also UFOs, about this idea that part of what they are holding back, what Lu Elizondo and David Grush are holding back, is the concept that we will be so challenged about the nature of the origins of humankind, that it will be what he said the news was, be like if someone told you your father was not your father, but times a million. What is your reaction? What do you think that means?

• 32:42Speaker 02

  Oh, and before you answered, know that Henry's having you tell me this because he knows I won't believe anything he says.

• 32:49Speaker 03

  We get put in that position a lot, I think. I, uh, uh, uh, trying to think of how I want to answer this. I think that personally, there is a seed of truth in there, but I don't typically trust the CIA.

• 33:08Speaker 04

  No.

• 33:09Henry Zebrowski?

  What? All benefactors? What about your shirt?

• 33:16Speaker 03

  It's.

• 33:16Henry Zebrowski?

  They trained us.

• 33:17Speaker 03

  I think that's, that's a dangerous game because, you know, when, when people in particular military intelligence positions are telling you to believe something, or not to believe something, there's a reason for it. And I think that, I think the, it's, I don't know why we have to look at it in such a scary way.

• 33:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:36Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? Like, all he's saying are things that, like, the occult has been telling people for thousands of years.

• 33:42Speaker 04

  I would, I, I agree with you. And I would say, it's, it's not that I disagree with it because I don't necessarily disagree with it. I think we're on the same page. I don't necessarily trust the source, but I would say, allow it to be a potential, like nugget of curiosity that leads you directly into the esoteric and occult. Because I think that within the spaces of the esoteric and the occult, you'll begin to start to find answers.

• 34:07Henry Zebrowski?

  I believe that every single one of these adventures begins with a dumb thought, that if you chase down, a silly thought even, if you chase down the actual truth in the very center of it, sometimes you shoot out into a whole other place you did not expect to.

• 34:24Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 34:24Henry Zebrowski?

  And it's a more true place.

• 34:25Speaker 04

  One of the things that we say all the time, and it's sort of the seat of most of our investigations, is we come to most of them from a place of play, like a, a sort of inner child, a sense of wonder, a sense of curiosity. And that playfulness, I think, allows us to traverse some spaces that catch people in fear and in, you know, like, things that kind of freak people out. I think when you have a playful nature, and like you said, Henry, like, when you're, when you chase a silly question, when you're being silly and you're, you're kind of earnest in your, your curiosity, you will often find yourself tumbling down interesting rabbit holes of high strangeness, for sure.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  Well, that seems to be, you know, a big part of your message from what I can tell is that, like, why do we need to be afraid? How do not be afraid? Like, how, like, like, seriously, like with this stuff, like, you know, especially like dealing with the occult or dealing with, you know, ghosts or walking into a, you know, creepy abandoned mental asylum at 2:00 AM, you know, like.

• 35:28Henry Zebrowski?

  Is it about trying to be sober? And I find a lot of people who get sober get like way more extreme in other places.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  But no, really, like, how do you, like, how do you approach this stuff from that place of play and not a place of fear? Like, how do you get over that fear?

• 35:43Speaker 04

  I think fear can be playful. So I think that, that you can kind of like, because the thing is, you know, we've been doing this for a billion years, but I still get scared if I go into like a haunted place. See, I'm still afraid, like, I still get creeped out by.

• 35:56Speaker 03

  I fear responses to laugh.

• 35:58Speaker 04

  Laughing, yes.

• 35:59Speaker 03

  You know, and, and I think if you. Just read, you read a lot.

• 36:03Speaker 04

  Read, yeah.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  Read a lot, like, read a lot, talk to people. Go, go, I mean, be, just be curious.

• 36:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:09Speaker 03

  And, and remember that when we're always, what we're always fighting is we're always fighting everyone who's saying like, be afraid of this, be afraid of that, be afraid of that. But if you start to look back at the root, like, why? Why are you afraid of that? What happened? And you start to pick those things apart, you, you start to find out that like, oh, there's actually something really special that's going on behind that curtain that everybody's telling me not to go behind.

• 36:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think it's funny too, because it's sort of like, when you think of the paranormal and you think of paranormal investigators, when, when you come into material where people are telling you, don't, you know, don't go over here and look for information over here, that's evil, or that's too scary. I often find myself just going directly there.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:48Speaker 04

  And wanting to read as much as I possibly can about it. Because I think, again, it's that, that lexicon thing, right? Like, the more information you have, the more ideas and theories and opinions that are from different cultures, from different times, from different types of people and different kinds of minds. I think we, we start to get, uh, that curiosity becomes, uh, you become more confident in your curiosity. And, and then the fear is more fun than it is, uh, like terrifying.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:16Henry Zebrowski?

  What if the occult is from the aliens?

• 37:18Speaker 03

  What if it is?

• 37:19Henry Zebrowski?

  What if esoteric is from aliens?

• 37:20Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 37:20Henry Zebrowski?

  It's about teaching us how to hack our own brains.

• 37:23Speaker 03

  I mean, if aliens are actually communicating with us, it means that they probably have a, a much better sense of the world than we do.

• 37:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:31Speaker 03

  Or the universe than we do. So why wouldn't we use the tools that they've given us?

• 37:34Henry Zebrowski?

  Or we're just their plaything.

• 37:35Speaker 03

  Well, there could be that.

• 37:36Henry Zebrowski?

  Or they're objective, they're, they're an objective intelligence and have no care for us, and we're just another plaything to them.

• 37:41Speaker 04

  I, it seems as if there's a playfulness to it, though.

• 37:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 37:44Speaker 04

  So I hope that, at the very least, you know?

• 37:47Speaker 03

  You know, when you look at.

• 37:47Henry Zebrowski?

  But it's a neutral playfulness.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  Look at, it's neutral. Look at the old contactee stories from the 50s and 60s. Things didn't really start getting scary until Betty and Barney Hill.

• 37:57Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  And when you look at that, the CIA was probably involved.

• 38:01Henry Zebrowski?

  Oh, shit. Yeah, now we're at it. Now we're fucking at it. All right, Bigfoot, where are we at?

• 38:07Speaker 03

  Bigfoot's a ghost, man. Bigfoot's a ghost. I think that's the simplest way to put it.

• 38:11Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 38:11Speaker 04

  I, I think Bigfoot is a, a fae, a fae folk, a, a nature spirit, something like that.

• 38:16Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, so no big monkey?

• 38:17Speaker 03

  I mean, come on.

• 38:18Henry Zebrowski?

  No, some guy who got sent to the woods because he was too big and hairy.

• 38:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:23Henry Zebrowski?

  No, no cryptid is real? Or all cryptids are egregores?

• 38:26Speaker 03

  I don't think that's true. Because, I mean, cryptozoology is just, you know, like, apes at one point were cryptids when they were just stories about them, you know?

• 38:34Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, I know, but a lot of those cryptozoologists are just fucking losers that need a real job.

• 38:37Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 38:38Henry Zebrowski?

  We know this. Let's get to the bottom of this.

• 38:41Speaker 04

  Greg is a great.

• 38:41Henry Zebrowski?

  Too much money. Oh, yes, continue.

• 38:44Speaker 04

  I was just gonna say, Greg has a great story about when we were at a, a Bigfoot conference, and he was talking to a Bigfoot investigator about how he believes that Bigfoot is a ghost. And the guy said, nah, don't take without woo woo stuff. And then he turned around and he went to do a Bigfoot call, and he farted directly into Greg's face. This happened in real life.

• 39:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:03Speaker 04

  Like a full on.

• 39:04Henry Zebrowski?

  You were blessed.

• 39:05Speaker 04

  You were.

• 39:05Henry Zebrowski?

  I think technically you were allowed to make one north, Pacific Northwest based wish.

• 39:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:11Henry Zebrowski?

  You got ghosted.

• 39:12Speaker 04

  It's magical.

• 39:14Speaker 03

  I, I think that some cryptids could be real.

• 39:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. But I think that most of them are topas, like egregores.

• 39:19Henry Zebrowski?

  Okay, I like that.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  One time we were at a, a Comic Con in, in, uh, Salt Lake City, and there was a guy selling Bigfoot casts, and he talked to Henry for a full 20 minutes about how rare they were and how.

• 39:30Henry Zebrowski?

  No, he already got me. I'll tell the fucking story. And then I bought one, he was mad, and this one, I'm gonna tell you right here, friend, was the last one I got. All right, $65 from the Blue Ridge Mountains, there was a, there was a beast scene. And I was just like, oh, yeah, okay. And I bought it. And as I walked away, I turned and looked back, and I literally watched him like he was Yosemite Sam, like, look back and forth, open up another fucking Ziploc thing, and pull out that same exact Bigfoot cast and just put it back in.

• 39:59Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 40:00Henry Zebrowski?

  Another fat man squandered his ass.

• 40:06Henry Zebrowski?

  Where are you guys at now? So on Haunted Objects, where would you say you're at, like, right now? Like, so where are you are, like, what are you covering? Is it kind of a monster of the week style show? Or do you just do?

• 40:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:17Henry Zebrowski?

  It's, it just kind of what comes along? Or do you do long-term, like you, you would do with Planet Weird?

• 40:23Speaker 03

  Uh, basically, what, what the show is, what Haunted Objects podcast is, is it's, it's us, uh, having the opportunity to look into items that we've collected over the years and tell interesting stories related to them. So like, you know, the first couple of episodes in season two, uh, we just did, uh, Joe Simonson and the pancakes from outer space.

• 40:41Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  And found new information that nobody's ever talked about, that he was probably hypnotized to advertise a Disney ripoff park. That's the type of stuff that we're trying to do in that show.

• 40:55Henry Zebrowski?

  What?

• 40:56Speaker 04

  Deep dives into folklore and, and just find more information about some of these things.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:02Henry Zebrowski?

  That sounds great.

• 41:03Speaker 04

  Finding them.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  So there's, we do that. Um, the first one that we started with, what was the first?

• 41:08Speaker 04

  Tarot.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  Tarot, we talked about tarot. And, um, you know, some of the misconceptions about tarot and, uh, you know, that was, uh, an episode that Dana led, and, and, you know, people who've been dealing tarot for years learned new stuff from that. So it's always to take a different approach to things that maybe people think they know about, or, uh, dig up the mysteries that nobody else has talked about behind some famous cases and not so famous cases.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Now, like, any smart person we talk to, there's a lot of shit in your room. Um, is there, uh, is there anything haunted in this room with you right now? Do you have any haunted objects?

• 41:43Speaker 04

  Oh, my God, well, I'll show you the new one. Hold on, give me one second.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 41:46Henry Zebrowski?

  They have like an old timey.

• 41:48Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 41:48Henry Zebrowski?

  Look at all the. Yeah, they got a tractor. It's literally, it does look like, that is the same exact Bigfoot cast.

• 41:56Henry Zebrowski?

  I have the same exact fucking Bigfoot cast. Because I got two.

• 41:59Speaker 03

  You probably do.

• 42:00Henry Zebrowski?

  Yes.

• 42:01Speaker 04

  This just arrived, we just unboxed this. Uh, it came with a note, and it, his name is Jason, apparently. It is.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  Unamorically, so for those of you that are listening, there is, it is a maroon rag doll man with a little penis.

• 42:15Henry Zebrowski?

  No balls.

• 42:16Speaker 04

  No.

• 42:16Henry Zebrowski?

  And his penis is big, uh, compared to his size.

• 42:18Speaker 04

  He also has a, a hard object in the chest, so it's probably a poppet. It's a piece of sympathetic magic. It's like the, the idea that someone would create something, and the idea as, uh, as a, a witch or a magic practitioner, they would create an object, and the intention is they would send something to someone via the object. So it's the best way to describe it, and the most common, uh, form of sympathetic magic would be like a voodoo doll, like, a, a kind of poppet, a figure for, uh, for some sort of magical use. So this is, this is the.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  Maybe a love spell, you think?

• 42:49Speaker 04

  Possibly a love spell, maybe.

• 42:51Speaker 03

  That maybe didn't work?

• 42:52Speaker 04

  Definitely.

• 42:52Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, because you could see, because, do you think it's because they gave, honestly, because it has the wiener?

• 42:56Speaker 03

  Maybe. They said they, they made it to bring the luck.

• 43:00Speaker 04

  Luck.

• 43:00Speaker 03

  But it brought them nothing but bad luck.

• 43:02Speaker 04

  But bad luck, yes.

• 43:03Speaker 03

  And it's very clearly, it got something, you know, maybe it's got like hair from somebody inside of it or something.

• 43:09Henry Zebrowski?

  Wow.

• 43:10Speaker 04

  It's a hard object.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  You should always be very, you should always do your research before you do magic spells, because we have a friend who did a love spell. Uh, big no-no, did a love spell.

• 43:21Henry Zebrowski?

  Never do, never do a love spell, ever.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Well, it's not, yeah.

• 43:25Henry Zebrowski?

  The genie said that in Aladdin.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  Well, it's true, there's a reason that's there. It's an archetypal story. Turned out that the, the person that they put the love spell on was a lesbian, and so all it did was create consistent, unrequited love that could never be fulfilled, and made it, uh, basically a curse.

• 43:44Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:45Henry Zebrowski?

  Jesus Christ.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  My God. So don't put love spells on people.

• 43:48Henry Zebrowski?

  No, not without their order. I did, yeah.

• 43:50Speaker 02

  It's rude.

• 43:50Henry Zebrowski?

  Get a hobby, you know what I mean? Get good at something. If you're gonna be a love spell. Uh, this is, you guys look great also, your skin's so nice.

• 43:58Speaker 03

  Oh, thanks. You guys look great, too.

• 44:00Henry Zebrowski?

  How do you guys get such nice skin?

• 44:02Speaker 04

  Light, we have the lighting.

• 44:03Speaker 03

  The blood?

• 44:04Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, fucking the blood. Fucking suck the souls out of people.

• 44:09Speaker 04

  The sacrifice.

• 44:10Henry Zebrowski?

  What a living fuck.

• 44:11Speaker 03

  We know all the satanic rituals, come on.

• 44:13Henry Zebrowski?

  No, of course, no, there was one of, one last thing I wanted to ask you. If you have, if you have, there was one last thing I wanted to ask.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  I got a question, and this is like, this is something that I've like, half been playing with for a couple of years now, and it might be really stupid, but it goes into your magnetic field theory, is that I have, like, some, you used to hear more about ghosts and hauntings in the past, like, the, and, and the stories that people would tell about ghosts and hauntings in the past used to be so much more vivid, like, Borley Rectory is a great example.

• 44:46Speaker 03

  Sure, sure.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  Of like, a very vivid haunting of like, seeing these apparitions.

• 44:51Henry Zebrowski?

  It's losing charge.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, it's losing charge, but that's the thing, is that losing charge, I do have this idea that electricity is killing ghosts.

• 45:01Speaker 03

  Why do you think, why do you think David Lynch puts electricity as a villain in all this shit?

• 45:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:06Speaker 03

  I think, I truly do think that we are fucking our brains.

• 45:09Henry Zebrowski?

  I think that David Lynch doesn't like emails. I don't think he likes. I think there's a lot of stuff he doesn't like that involves electricity.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm definitely not like a, like, you know, like, that's the thing. I mean, my, I do like saying 5G kills ghosts. I think that's the best use of 5G.

• 45:23Henry Zebrowski?

  The Alexis. The Alexis was fucking him up.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. But no, it's like, do you think there is anything to, to this idea that we have introduced so much energy into our environment that it's fundamentally changing who we are? Like, is it making us, you know, if you want to get into the idea of like, you know, the collective unconsciousness and like Jungian thought is like, is it making us less sympathetic? Is it making us less connected to the rest of humankind? Is that why we are the way we are? Or is it just because we were never meant to know the innermost thoughts of our friends and neighbors?

• 46:00Speaker 03

  Uh, at the risk of sounding like a guy who should be wearing a tinfoil hat, I don't think it's healthy to, uh, you know, live near high tensile power lines and things like that. And when you investigate cases where people are seeing ghosts and seeing things that are strange, typically you find out that they're like sleeping next to an, you know, unshielded electrical outlet. And once they stop doing that, the, the visions start to go away. So I don't know whether it's, it's having an effect on how many ghosts we're seeing or not seeing, but I do think that electromagnetic fields absolutely affect the brain. I think they absolutely affect the brain.

• 46:40Speaker 03

  And I, I think that it happens at such a subtle level that there are places that you can go that are like power centers, uh, that, that have like a strange geomagnetic, uh, like some sort of drain, strange anomalies. And that's why people are experiencing things there. And likewise, I think there's places you can go where there's no interference and maybe have a little bit of mental peace. But, uh, I don't know. That sounds real close to like thinking 5G's.

• 47:10Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, that's a problem.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  That is a big problem. Yeah. It's like, it's, it's this close. Uh, I, I know that, but yeah, that has been an idea that I've like, just kind of been futzing with for a long time. It's like, what is electricity doing to us? Cause I, I am a, a believer and like, I was very excited when I kind of found like you guys, because it's like, oh, here's people who think like I do. And it's.

• 47:33Henry Zebrowski?

  Aren't completely insane?

• 47:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Totally insane. Yeah.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  So a little bit.

• 47:38Henry Zebrowski?

  I will say, so about a week ago, uh, we'll be wrapping up here soon, but I just want to know. So we spoke with a vampire.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:44Henry Zebrowski?

  Who is a lord of vampires here, Father Sebastian.

• 47:49Speaker 03

  I'm familiar.

• 47:50Henry Zebrowski?

  You had any run, you know, how, where are you at with vampires?

• 47:54Speaker 03

  We've, we've hung out with some vampires.

• 47:55Speaker 04

  We have. We've hung out with, with people that sort of identifies like energetic vampires, but we've also hung out.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  Hung out with sanguine vampires.

• 48:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, like people who drink blood.

• 48:04Henry Zebrowski?

  Did they try to make you do that stuff? And you were like, guys, we, please.

• 48:07Speaker 03

  I want to do that stuff. Come on, man.

• 48:09Henry Zebrowski?

  Do you, have you drank blood?

• 48:10Speaker 04

  No.

• 48:12Speaker 03

  No comment.

• 48:13Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah, Dana knows. I know Dana. He's like, oh, we all want to.

• 48:16Speaker 03

  Look at her. What do you think?

• 48:18Henry Zebrowski?

  I think that you drank blood, but only because it would probably have to come from like a rabbit.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  You look like you snort blood.

• 48:23Speaker 04

  So I snort it. Exactly.

• 48:26Henry Zebrowski?

  You don't hurt any animal. You've never hurt an animal.

• 48:30Henry Zebrowski?

  You've never hurt an animal, right?

• 48:31Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 48:32Speaker 04

  No.

• 48:33Speaker 03

  No, we're vegetarians.

• 48:33Henry Zebrowski?

  Are you full?

• 48:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:35Henry Zebrowski?

  Vegetarian?

• 48:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. I, I mean, it's, it's, I, I, I try to not, uh, create suffering if I can.

• 48:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  You know, I don't want to be preachy.

• 48:44Speaker 02

  Are we back to the, do dogs have souls?

• 48:46Henry Zebrowski?

  So back to before we end, before we go, do dogs have souls? And if they do?

• 48:51Speaker 03

  Of course they do.

• 48:52Henry Zebrowski?

  Yeah. They're the only, as far as I'm concerned, it's the only thing with a soul.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  I probably, you're probably right.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  And what about animal ghosts?

• 48:57Speaker 03

  Oh, all the time.

• 48:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure. We get so many stories from people who've seen animal ghosts. Um, it's really, really common.

• 49:04Henry Zebrowski?

  That's what I think the giant birds are. That's where I think thunderbirds are. That's where I think pterodactyls are. When people see that shit.

• 49:09Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  Or the black dogs that are always seen in England for, you know, centuries now.

• 49:14Henry Zebrowski?

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:14Speaker 04

  I mean, those are the cool, black Angus, I think is, is their names. I mean, they're, they're, they're, animals are so tied to folklore. They're so tied to the occult and to magic in general, that it makes sense that they would be kind of in the mix when, in terms of like seeing them in a paranormal light.

• 49:32Henry Zebrowski?

  All I know is if there is a heaven and dogs ain't there, then send me to hell devil. Send me to hell devil.

• 49:41Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Where dogs are three in one.

• 49:45Henry Zebrowski?

  Guys, I love you both. Thank you so much for doing the show.

• 49:49Speaker 03

  Of course. Thank you.

• 49:50Henry Zebrowski?

  The Haunted Objects Podcast. Go check it out. They got, I don't know if you have a new documentary besides, The Unbinding came out last year. I'm gonna, I'm not gonna do that Hollywood thing where they're gonna be like, so what you working on next?

• 50:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 50:02Henry Zebrowski?

  And it's like that. I know it took three years.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  Go watch The Unbinding.

• 50:05Speaker 03

  Come see us on tour.

• 50:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:06Speaker 03

  The tour starts on, in, in September and runs till the end of October. Newkirktour.com. Come see us some.

• 50:12Henry Zebrowski?

  Oh, nice. You coming to LA?

• 50:14Speaker 03

  I wish we were. We'll be in the Pacific Northwest. That's as far as we're going.

• 50:18Henry Zebrowski?

  Maybe we'll come meet you.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  Please. If there's any show you guys want to come to, just let me know. And, uh, help us dethrone Annabelle.

• 50:25Speaker 02

  I would absolutely love to.

• 50:26Henry Zebrowski?

  Newkirk, N-E-W-K-I-R-K, shows?

• 50:31Speaker 03

  Tour.

• 50:32Henry Zebrowski?

  Live?

• 50:33Speaker 03

  Newkirk Tour.

• 50:34Henry Zebrowski?

  Newkirk?

• 50:34Speaker 03

  Tour.

• 50:35Henry Zebrowski?

  Newkirk. I'll take it. I'm gonna do it this way. I'm gonna do it right. Capital N is it Nancy? E-W-K-I-R-K, tour.com. Get your tickets now while they still are alive.

• 50:47Speaker 03

  Can I, can I steal that and put that in our advertisement?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Yes, absolutely.

• 50:51Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 50:52Henry Zebrowski?

  Goodbye, you wonderful people.

• 50:53Speaker 03

  Thank you, guys.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  Been wanting to talk to you guys for so long. So it's been such a pleasure to be able to ask y'all questions. Thank you so much for coming.

• 51:01Speaker 03

  Anytime.

• 51:01Speaker 04

  Awesome. Anytime.

• 51:02Speaker 03

  Thanks.

• 51:05Speaker 05

  Live from your grave.

• 51:07Speaker 06

  Very good. Very learned people. Very learned, very well read people.

• 51:12Henry Zebrowski?

  Fascinating.

• 51:12Speaker 06

  Very fascinating.

• 51:14Henry Zebrowski?

  Absolutely.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  It's so nice when I talk to these people and they're not complete fucking lunatics, see?

• 51:20Speaker 02

  They're just somebody that's gonna be at a party.

• 51:23Henry Zebrowski?

  The problem though is, is that because people like that, but I would also consider us are not necessarily lunatics. Is that sometimes you find out you are. Well, yeah. Despite yourself.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:35Henry Zebrowski?

  That's my issue.

• 51:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, you.

• 51:37Henry Zebrowski?

  I say a bunch of stuff that I think's like super funny or super great.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  And it turns out of where you are.

• 51:42Henry Zebrowski?

  Everybody's my bar, super polarizing.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Ponderosa's close.

• 51:45Henry Zebrowski?

  Yes. And I don't know why. It's been like, I'm one of the good ones.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. It turns out you're the one who's the lunatic.

• 51:51Henry Zebrowski?

  And it's like, but no, I'm one of the good ones.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  If you scream it loud enough, it's true.

• 51:57Henry Zebrowski?

  Oh, it is. It's my volume.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Check us out at patreon.com slash Last Podcast on the Left to see video episodes, everything we put out. Follow us on the socials, at LP on the Left on Instagram and TikTok. Check out all of our streams at twitch.tv slash LPNTV and check them all out after the fact on our YouTube channel. And don't forget to go to lastpodcastontheleft.com to see us on tour.

• 52:24Henry Zebrowski?

  On tour!

• 52:25Speaker 02

  We're gonna become, we're in Australia right now. We're gonna be coming to London, Reykjavik, Los Angeles.

• 52:31Henry Zebrowski?

  All sorts of places. Just go on the website. Go to the goddamn website.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  Go check it out and buy our merch. LastPodcastMerch.com.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  Yes, very good.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is.

• 52:44Henry Zebrowski?

  Thank you for enjoying the Last Update on the Left. You can find other shows that you'll enjoy from the Last Podcast Network on lastpodcastontheleft.com. See you there.