#21 Ed Latimore: The Warrior Poet

Ed Latimore might be the most interesting person you'll ever meet. Ed is a professional heavyweight boxer, physics major, and philosopher. He's also the author of the cult-hit Not Caring What Other People Think Is a Superpower. If there's anything Ed feels like doing, he simply does it. This interview explores the physics of boxing, the value of a coach, and much of Ed’s hard-fought wisdom. You’ll discover: How the painful end to a relationship lit a fire under Ed that hasn’t stopped burning How Ed knows when he’s bitten off more than he can chew and needs to ease up on the accelerator Why motivation is a terrible way to achieve great things (and what to do instead) The unlikely way that Ed’s runaway best selling book came about Why Ed thinks every person should step into the boxing ring at least once in their life How people get stuck on the “dopamine treadmill” which feels productive but actually gets you nowhere (this is the kiss of death if you want to accomplish any important goal) Ed’s brilliant philosophy on pain and suffering that will change the way you view hardships in your life Ed’s somewhat controversial approach to coaching children and getting the very best out of them The most important element of creating a positive habit (most people get this wrong) And more. After listening to this warrior poet, you won’t look at life the same again. Go Premium: Members get early access, ad-free episodes, hand-edited transcripts, searchable transcripts, member-only episodes, and more. Sign up at: https://fs.blog/membership/ Every Sunday our newsletter shares timeless insights and ideas that you can use at work and home. Add it to your inbox: https://fs.blog/newsletter/ Follow Shane on Twitter at: https://twitter.com/ShaneAParrish Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:08Shane Parrish?

  Welcome to The Knowledge Project, the most irregular podcast in the history of the world with seemingly one episode every three or four months. I'm your host Shane Parrish, curator behind the Farnham Street blog, which helps people make better decisions, learn new things, and discover how to live a meaningful life. The Knowledge Project allows me to meet and talk to world-class people. We pull back the curtain a little to see what makes them so incredible. On this episode, I have Ed Latimore, a professional boxer, philosopher, and physics major from the Steel City. I traveled to Pittsburgh to record this interview, after which he gave me a private boxing lesson. Let's just say his hands are about as big as my head. Luckily for me, his heart was pretty big,

• 0:53Shane Parrish?

  too. This is unlike any interview I've ever done. Listen in and you'll see why.

• 1:10Shane Parrish?

  You have one of the most interesting backgrounds I've ever seen from a boxer. You're in physics, you're into chess. Walk me through like how this happened.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Um, you know, so, so there's always been my interest in these things outside of like boxing. And I've always had the interest in boxing, but I didn't get a chance to for lots of reasons, and those aren't really relevant, but for lots of reasons why, there were lots of reasons why I didn't get a chance to do boxing. And then one day, I, at 22 or something, uh, yeah, 22, I decided I was going to do this. And part of that is because I had just got out of a relationship that was, that had lasted over four years, and I was a total chump about a lot of things. And one of those things was I wanted to make

• 2:02Speaker 01

  sure I was in a position to see her every day. So that meant taking horrible jobs and not advancing myself and my academics or whatever. So at the end of four years, from 18 to 22, I was not, I had not advanced any way, shape, or form as a man. And I was like, okay, this has got to change. And a thing I wanted to do was I think YouTube was like just getting started and I had been watching fight videos. I was like, I always wanted to try boxing. Let's go try boxing. But at that time MMA was also getting big and I knew you had to learn jujitsu for MMA. And it was a whole complete system of fighting, not just with your hands. So there was a time for about a year when I first started training from like twenty two to twenty three.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Where I was doing everything, like every single night for like six days a week. I was either in a boxing gym, I was in an octagon training, I was either on the mat learning how to roll. I was doing kickboxing and I even did judo for a little while, but I'm but I'm almost twisted my knee. And I was like, ah, how useful is judo really? Is it worth twisting my knee? So, uh, all of these things, they came together and one day I was like, all right, I'm just gonna go boxing and go down the line. But it all started with me wanting to do something and put some time in. To reference that relationship that I had just got out of, an argument that will never ever leave my mind and greatly influenced me.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  I used to be huge, uh, anti higher education. For the most part, I still am. The difference is now I'm, you know, an adult in school pursuing a physics degree. But even there was a plan for that, but I used to be huge higher anti education. The girl I was dating, uh, this created some clashes because her mother was a professor of biology. So she'd hear me go on these rants every now and then or these arguments or she'd bring up biology, go back to school. And I'd give some type of flippant twenty one year old answer. And then one day, near the end of our relationship, and you can always tell the end is near when they stop caring about you. Uh, one day she says, what have you done for four years? Like, whether you're pro education or.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Anti-education. What have you done for four years to show there is something else to do? Even if you had sat in a monk convent monastery, you haven't done anything for the past four years, but show up at my house and eat my food. And I was like, and that, I remember, I can't remember. I mean, I'm sure the man in me is editing the tears that may have happened in my memory. But I remember going, you are exactly right. I have not done anything. So when I got in a position to where I really put the pedal to the metal, and that's how I've been living ever since. I mean, I took a little reprieve and you know, that's part of life, you know, up and down. You can't be in all the time. But even now, until, until recently, until the past three months or so,

• 4:59Speaker 01

  I mean, I was in, in the military, boxing, going to school and still trying to be a decent person and for my relationship at home, because that's important. You have to maintain and nurture those relationships. So that is really where that boxing thing, you know, we kind of moved on to a tangent, but moved, moved on to something else. But I started boxing mainly to do something for four years. Minimum now it's turned into a decade, but we started there. We, I wanted, I wasn't comfortable where I was at. And I was like, all right, let's go, let's become something, something more than we are.

• 5:37Shane Parrish?

  Tell me a little bit about how you juggle between the military and school and a boxing career. What's your daily routine look like?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Um, you know, it's funny, right now in my life, so much, so, so where am I right now? Um, last semester I took off school. I took off so I could focus on boxing. This semester I'm taking off boxing to focus on school. I'm done with my service and the National Guard. So for the first time in over five years, the only thing I do, I mean, I wake up and I still work out, but I don't have to work out at the level of like, I'm in the gym two or three times a day. And then I'm trying to put that in between school and then I have drilling on the weekend and I gotta come home and do stuff at home. Uh, so for the first time, it's, it's a very relaxed life.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  I, I'll tell you what I think I did to survive because, because you know, it's funny about pain, right? When you look back at pain, you can't really remember, you can remember it hurting, right?

• 6:46Speaker 01

  But you don't know how you survived it. I heard this referenced, um, this idea referenced on like women who give birth. It's like, apparently it's incredibly painful, right? But somehow they do it more than once in their life. I'm not talking about the new mothers. I'm talking about the ones that have multiple kids who know what they're getting into. Uh, so how does that relate? I don't know how I survived. I really don't. I think about this all the time and I think I'm, but I know I'm thinking about it. From the perspective of having less to do and still feeling stressed. What I, what, what I think I did, I can't tell you what I feel I did because I can't get back to that feeling. What I think I did is I, I gave up sleep a lot of times. Um, sleep is always optional.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  I'm not one of those guys that can go forever on four hours of sleep, right? I need my eight hours on average. With that said, uh, on average is the thing we stress. Because okay, so like Monday through Thursday, I mean, we're talking three, four hours of sleep. Saturdays, I'm not drilling. I'm, I'll sleep 10 hours, man. I'll, I'll get it in. I'll figure it out. Because there was no way to do all that. There just isn't. I wouldn't recommend it. I'm never going back to a workload like that again unless, unless, uh, I say unless I have to. But, but you know what? There's something about people like me. I say that, but the first thing I, I, it's hard because my first instinct is to look at a thing and go. I can do that. That makes sense for me.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  And then I have to kick in the secondary support system of my emotions in my life and go, you know what? That's just not going to be a good look. Now I, and now I have somebody in my ear I trust. Because when you, when you grow up the way I grew up, you don't take counsel well. And a lot of times that has cost me. And but now I'm at a point where I have a small but dedicated circle of people close to me who say a thing and I listen. And my girlfriend is one of those people and she, she will check me if she feels like. I am going to grab more than I can handle because she don't really, I want, okay, I wanna say she doesn't care if I'm present at home, but I know that's BS.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  But I think she's more concerned that I will burn myself out because then I turn into an asshole, man. Because like, here's when I knew it was getting bad. When I was doing all that, when I was juggling a lot of, I was just doing dishes, you know, we got, we got a nice little arrangement. She does all the cooking, I do all the cleaning. And unless I'm injured, like I cut my finger real bad, like, like a month ago. She was like, I gotta do dishes now. But, uh, but other than that, but one day, man, I was doing dishes and she says something to me and I just, I snapped at her. And I don't, I don't snap. I don't yell. That's not my thing. I'm a very calm person. You can know me your entire life and count on one hand the times you'll hear me raise my voice out of the person. But I did that and I was like, okay, this is getting out of hand.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Because all I wanna do is do my stuff, do things, go to sleep. I didn't even wanna deal with her. Cordially.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 9:51Speaker 03

  It's me, the.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 9:54Speaker 03

  We don't need the jingle twice.

• 9:56Speaker 02

  What about a third time?

• 9:57Speaker 03

  Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars.

• 10:04Speaker 02

  Seems like they decided.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Time to read the timeline.

• 10:12Speaker 03

  Fine. No one deals more deals than.

• 10:14Speaker 02

  Priceline.

• 10:15Speaker 03

  Please stop.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Priceline.

• 10:17Speaker 03

  Touche.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Priceline.

• 10:19Speaker 03

  Priceline.

• 10:21Speaker 04

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• 10:43Speaker 01

  So let alone like we're just like I'm gonna I'm gonna need some help with some but uh but you know but do I think what would I do it all over again willingly no but is it was necessary because once again what have you done for four years and that's always stuck with me and it's driven everything I'm like you're right you gotta put time in to get farther and get better and sometimes you just gotta hear with that tough love aspect like before that point I knew the idea intellectually now I know it viscerally like now I will never forget you gotta put time in and how you put that time in and where you put it in doesn't matter but the longer you wait the more work it will take you know

• 11:18Shane Parrish?

  in my mind you're the philosophical boxer you've written a book called not caring what other people think is a superpower tell me a little bit about that book and the experience of writing it

• 11:28Speaker 01

  so so the book came about I it took me a little longer to write it than I thought it would I thought I were gonna have it done in like six months and ended up being a year because life right like the things we're just talking about all that coming together and and then I'm trying to write the book I didn't even think about that I'm blogging so that's but but but one day uh the Twitter user who I'm I'm I'm great great um friends but I'm sure we'll meet in person one day but we we talk a lot um he goes Joe you know your Twitter feed is really great man you ever think about putting it together and selling a book of tweets I was like you know what I had never thought of that that's a great idea and I was like but there's no way I'm gonna feel good about just putting out a bunch of tweets

• 12:13Speaker 01

  so I went through I called my whole list I I downloaded the the X H M L file and and I sat there and I was like okay I'm gonna take out the best ones and then I'm gonna put together the ones in certain categories which ultimately became the chapters of the book And then I'm gonna write an essay explaining each one and then where appropriate, I'm gonna give an actionable step or an actionable piece of advice for a person to be able to implement this idea in their life. So it all started with that suggestion and I'm pretty sure I got that suggestion, yeah, about about twenty months ago, maybe, maybe a little less.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  And it's just been a constant thing in the making and then when when it was coming together, I was like, yeah, I really like this.

• 13:03Shane Parrish?

  One of the big parts of the book that stuck with me is kind of your philosophy on self-discipline. Can you walk us through that a little bit?

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Uh, self-discipline is is highly important, right? You can't, if if if you wait till you feel like doing something, you'll never do it. And furthermore, if you give in to your feelings about a thing, you will give up on many things because anything worth having requires hard work and hard work by definition is not pleasant. I don't care what anyone says to you. Being in shape is great, running is not great. I used to tell my friend all the time, you're never gonna like running. Stop looking for it to become enjoyable, just go do the damn running and look at the results. With that said, my whole approach to self-discipline is to eliminate the emotional aspect of it. Or or you can feel a thing.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  No one's saying get rid of your emotions. Not only is that not possible, uh, if it were possible, your life just becomes a series of like indistinguishable moments. You need emotion, but you you wanna control it. Most people don't have emotional control. When you have emotional control, then you can look at a thing and go, man. For example, I I I'm an early riser, right? People like, how you get up so early, man? Girls like, why you always up so early? I'm like, cuz I need to get up early. Like, how I feel about it never enters. It's just a thing that needs to be done. I always say, if a thing is important to your success, it doesn't matter how you feel about it, it just needs to be done. And that's how I view self-discipline. You can't consider your feelings.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Cuz your feelings are always, your feelings are like, uh, they're always gonna find the easiest way for you to do a thing. They don't want you to work hard. Hard work sucks. But if you want the good things and the cool things in life, if you even wanna be having an average life, you've gotta go do hard things that you don't wanna do. And eventually you you you just stop thinking about it. And and then you learn to see the world as a matter of what must be done versus what must not be done.

• 15:03Shane Parrish?

  You you mentioned self-confidence. It strikes me as it would be very difficult to get in a ring. Uh, without self-confidence. How do you how do you develop that? Or how do you think about that?

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Um, getting in the ring, you know, Mike, I never think about my confidence.

• 15:19Shane Parrish?

  Is that through process too?

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Right. Okay, so you you just reminded me of a a really interesting thing that happened in L in L A when I lived out there. I got I got evaluated by a sports psychologist. We all got evaluated by sports psychologists out there. And he said, as you get closer to the event, you get more confident. And then you're more confident, more relaxed as the event occurs. That first, that second part, I think, is typical of most athletes. Once you get in there, they say, once you get hit the first time, then you know you're good. That that part before, how I get more and more more relaxed, or how my confidence rises and grows. I don't think that my confidence is growing so much as I'm accepting the inevitable.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  I've already signed on a dotted line, the fight's already gonna go down. And in my mind, the outcome is actually already predetermined. Uh, well, no one knows what it is, but it's already set in stone. So there's nothing for me to worry about.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  That is the first thing, that detachment. That's the first thing, and I think that's the most powerful thing for me about fighting is that. You, I don't care if I get hurt. I know what's gonna, I know I'm gonna experience pain, right? So what is left for me to worry about? I I, you know, I just got over being that I've now the worst thing that could possibly happen has happened. So I've I've dealt with that. I've been embarrassed on national television, right? Uh, you go and do all these things and you realize the world does not stop. No one cares. It really doesn't matter. And then you get the confidence to really act. As long as you think people care what you do.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  As long as you think that somehow your little existence is gonna make a big ripple in a long grand scheme of things, you're gonna be terrified to act. But once you understand, once you realize that it's freedom, it's freeing, once you see that no one cares, no one thinks about it. Except maybe the people at the moment, like, no one cares anymore. I don't care anymore, right? I can like say, hey, I got stopped, I got knocked down on TV, and it doesn't bother me. Because it's an event that's gone and I've learned from it and I've taken the best parts of it to make myself better. Most people get too attached, too fixated on a single event, so they cannot be confident.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  So when I entered the ring, I'm not thinking about a bunch of other things going on, my mind by default. I don't, I don't know how other fighters achieve this, but I know they achieve something similar. They might not use my wording, but I think the process and the benefit is the same. By default, I don't worry about anything else going on but the guy in front of me. But I'm not even really worried about him because the worst thing he can do, he can't kill me, and even if he could, then life would be over. What is there to worry about? You go have fun and you perform and you get it done. Once you realize that the worst thing you could lose, that's the worst thing that happened. Randy Couture said this to me, once again, you live in LA, man, you meet all these people.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Came to the gym one day and he was giving us a little speech about something, and he says something, once again, that will always stick, much like the four-year thing, this will always stick. He said, if the worst thing that happens to you in your life is you lose a fight, then your life is going pretty great. And, and that, that was when I was an amateur and it's stuck with me ever since. This is, it's just a hobby, it's fun. People worry about getting punched in the face, people worry about getting, but then you realize it's just pain, pain. Pain is the same as pleasure, it's a feeling, it's gonna go away. But as long as you think, as long as you avoid that, yeah, you know, you can't have fun, you can't get the benefits of life. It's a good time. I wish every man would go at least have box at amateur event.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  He ain't gotta go pro, but it's very easy to become an amateur boxer.

• 19:10Shane Parrish?

  In the book, you talk about the concept of good pain versus bad pain. And you said, good pain comes from pushing towards a goal. Bad pain comes from avoiding challenges and you're going to suffer either way, you might as well be better. You walk me through some of the thinking that led you to that?

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Right. So I, I, I'm pretty sure when I wrote that, the first experience, because I always think like this, I think that everything can be like, uh, combined and explained and you can take one on and use it to explain other ideas. So I'm pretty sure I was actually thinking about like romantic endeavors when I wrote that. And I was like, okay, it's going to be hard if you're with somebody, but it's going to be equally hard if you like, are to always run away. And I was like, oh, man, that's like the same in fitness. Like either you're gonna suffer because you're unattractive and you have horrible health, or you're gonna suffer while you're working out

• 20:07Speaker 01

  that painful running. So what's the difference? Is it all suffering? The difference is one kind of suffering is moving towards something you want, a good body, a good partner. The other kind of suffering or pain is going away from things, going away from putting the work in, going away from being vulnerable and opening yourself up and taking risk. So no matter what, there's going to be an uncomfortable process. And I think that's just part of the rate of change to this life. Always thinking things in terms of calculus for some weird reason, the rate of change of life. Uh, if you're going up, you're gonna have effort and have an issue. And if you're going down, you're gonna have, uh, an issue. It's just what issue do you decide to

• 20:50Speaker 01

  have? Do you want the issue of, oh, man, I gotta put these late nights in and do this work? I gotta go work out at the gym? Or I gotta argue with this person to make sure that we have a good understanding and reach a compromise about a situation? Or do I want to have the pain of being an incel on a fat bastard that just sits around in a basement all day and does nothing? And no one really likes. You get to pick your poison.

• 21:12Shane Parrish?

  When you're in the ring, uh, do you have any emotions going through your head? Like, is it a feeling or is it just you're you're kind of robotic at that point?

• 21:20Speaker 01

  I have learned something really interesting about myself. I don't, I am completely detached. That may be more harmful than helpful. Uh, I'm like the other end of the spectrum in that regard. On the, on the, on the other, on the one end, I think you have the caricature that most people think of, which is like this emotionally reckless boxer that's full of anger and just wants to bring pain. Like, uh, like Mike Tyson, in that interview, they ask him like, why are you so angry in a fight? Mike, Mike goes, it's a fight, what's it matter? Uh, that's like one extreme. I'm pretty strong on the other extreme and that's not good either. Ideally, you want some type of emotion.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  You don't want to be, you want to care enough to not care, if that makes sense. You need to care about the outcome enough that you want a good outcome. But you also are more concerned with a process. Like, I take the work very seriously. Um, clearly, I couldn't have gone and done the things amateur, professional. I did not take the work seriously. At the same time, uh, in the ring, I'm very, very detached. I mean, ma-

• 22:33Shane Parrish?

  Attached from an outcome.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know, and you know, maybe it's not a weakness. I think, I think a lot of times, we, we sometimes question how we think about a thing because everyone else around you thinks about a thing in a different way and you realize you're a minority. That doesn't mean you're wrong, but it's certainly easy to feel that way. So I've wrestled with that a lot. Should I be more attached to the outcome? Should I be less attached to the outcome? Am I just right? But I don't feel, I mean, I don't, I'm not angry at the guy. I can laugh and joke with him beforehand, hang out with him afterwards, it's just a fight. It's just a fight. It's not the end of the world, we're not like ripping each other's families apart.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  I don't even, I, I mean, I'm, I'm sure I can figure it out, but I don't even know how to trash talk, man. I just go, oh, that's nice, none can save you when we actually start fighting, so, uh, yeah. It's, to me, you know, you enjoy the time in the ring, it's very enjoyable.

• 23:30Shane Parrish?

  How do you stay motivated to get better?

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Um.

• 23:35Shane Parrish?

  Like after you win, how do you go to the gym in a couple of days?

• 23:39Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness. Okay, let's pretend I didn't have a mastery mindset. What I do have and have always had, and I think this is a good sign of our sign of a good coach. Man, you couldn't tell whether you won or lost when you start watching film. Cause things start getting picked apart, what you did wrong, what you can't get better. And if you want to get better, if you're there to improve, you take them and you start getting to work and you realize.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  I always say you always one mistake away from losing the last fight. Which means you catch it and you okay, man, it's a good thing that I I had just learned that from my last fight and it didn't catch up to me. Uh, this fight likewise, uh, the the fight I lost. If I had somehow got that lesson beforehand in a fight, but I didn't lose, then I'd be like, okay, I learned it. And then come keep moving forward, but I, but stay motivated, even if you didn't have all that. The one thing you gotta realize is that you're never gonna be perfect. And you're not aiming for perfection. Once again, I think of things in terms of calculus. You are approaching perfection.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  The limit uh, is that approaches perfection. You keep pushing hard work. If you keep doing work, you're gonna get closer and closer and closer, but that's gotta be your goal. You always gotta be improving. I always tell people uh, they talk about when they wanna box. I'm like, if you wanna do this, you, I'll tell you the reasons why you shouldn't. You shouldn't do it for money, because there ain't no money in boxing. You shouldn't do it for, to to prove the haters wrong, because they still wanna hate. Now they're just gonna wait for you to mess up and you definitely shouldn't do it for any female attention. Uh, you should do this because something deep inside you just says, man, you gotta get in the ring, man. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta get better. And no one can take that away from you.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  You could never make it down. Everybody could hate you. You could get injured. No one can take away from the, take away from you the feeling of mastery. The feeling of getting a thing and be like, oh, I can do that. I couldn't do that a month ago. And that's like my favorite part about being in the gym. It's like, I can do a thing now that I couldn't do like, like, like skipping rope is a perfect example. I was a terrible rope skipper. Now I can cross my arms and jump and do all this stuff. But, uh, I had put in time, just go every single day. I used to have a horrible jab. Cause I couldn't figure out the mechanics. But in my mind, I was like, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get a good jab. I'm gonna get a jab, good jab, because my coaches is important. And now I understand enough to know it's important. So now I know how to throw a jab ball.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  And these are the things you just, you gotta always wanna be better.

• 26:27Shane Parrish?

  Why do you think athletes have coaches and most other people don't have coaches? Or not even don't have them, but are dismissive of them? Like, nobody's in my car coaching me how to drive better, right?

• 26:40Speaker 01

  Uh, it, it depends on the task, really. So why do athletes have coaches? Why do the, the, the, there's a lot of business owners hire a coach? Uh, why do life coaches, the good ones, right, exist? Some tasks you need constant feedback about. You need constant feedback because the human being's natural tendency is entropy. To always seek the easiest way, the, the configuration of events that will result in the least output of energy. A coach is there to make sure that doesn't happen. Furthermore, a coach is there to correct you when the little things are occurring, the little deviations are occurring

• 27:24Speaker 01

  that will eventually take you one way. And by the time you get there, you don't realize they were occurring. We don't, to use your, the example, like, why don't you have a coach in your car? Well, well, if you make a deviation, you're gonna know real quick if, if you're going straight or not. And you can adjust that on your own. The self correcting mechanism is there. The self correcting mechanism is not there for for an athlete or for a business owner or a person trying to improve their life. It's just not. I mean, even if they know. And they're the best. No, even Tom Brady still has a coach, right? He's the all time winningest Super Bowl quarterback in history and all these records and this is great player, but he has a coach because when you have all so many parts.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  You know, we just look at a guy throwing a football and playing the game, but we forget we're looking at over 20 years of parts that have learned to work together. The slightest little bit of of the slightest part of that system getting out of whack and out of alignment will bring the whole system down. And a coach's job is to that messing up, fix that, that's messing up, fix that and to keep everything tight.

• 28:29Shane Parrish?

  I like that a lot. Um, in the book, you you also had um, some profound thoughts that I I I want to hear your explanation on on whether it's easier to ask for forgiveness or beg for permission.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Oh, man, both of those. Okay, so so so this this my personality, man, I don't really, I'm I'm really bad at moderation. I'm just bad at it. That's why I don't drink, right? Uh, it it's easier for me to to not drink than it is to figure out which ones, what's enough and what's not enough, right? So with that, taking going from that base of lacking moderation, forgiveness and permission, in my opinion, are two kinds of moderating activities. You ask for forgiveness when you've done a thing and you need to buffer or mitigate

• 29:25Speaker 01

  the effect of your actions. Likewise, you ask for permission when you're pretty sure you're going to incur the wrath of someone, but but by definition, if you want him to do it, at the very least, you'll be someone who's satisfied. So so. It's this way of existing to please the most people you can. I don't really care for that thought either.

• 29:50Shane Parrish?

  This doesn't really lead to a happy life.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  It doesn't lead to a happy life. So what you have to do is you have to get very comfortable acting and doing with what you think is best for you. That's what I think is the secret to a happy life. I'm not talking about being selfish and I'm not talking about being a criminal or anything. When people hear that, because it's it's a nuanced thought, they automatically jump to the negative or positive of the extremes. Thinking I can express, uh, respect, sure, but you're missing a point. The point is you need to get comfortable. You need to be able to do what you feel is best for you. If you do that enough times, you will see certain things that

• 30:33Speaker 01

  that you look at as like maybe soft or altruistic. No, those are great activities. If for any other reason, you be a nice and kind to everyone you meet because it's the best thing for you. As I always say, there's no disadvantage to being likable, right? You end up in a position to have more influence and to be have more people like you if you're likable. Now, I'm just using an example because people talk about, oh, what about doing things that make people like you? Like, yeah, but you're doing it for your interests. You're not doing it for them. And everyone wins. It's it's it's like the idea they talk about economics, where the the black hand of economics or something like that. Where if you just let the market be free, uh, it will adjust and sort itself out, right?

• 31:13Speaker 01

  If you if you just let people pursue their interests, eventually they'll do what's best for the group. And I really believe that. And that's where that forgiveness or his permission idea came from. Either one is an attempt to kind of reconcile clashing feelings and perspectives. I'm like, nah, you don't need to worry about all that. Just just do what's gonna work best for you. If people got a problem with it, they'll disappear. Uh, and if they don't, they will gravitate towards you and your influence and like the happy life you'll have will just become happier and better and you'll be able to better serve the people that do stick around.

• 31:49Shane Parrish?

  Speaking of people that disappear, one of the other aphorisms in the book that kind of caught my attention was as you raise your value, more people will want more of you, but you want less of them.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Uh, that's like, um.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  Well, just use like a hot girl, for example, start there, right? The hotter she is, the more guys wanna date her. But because she's so attractive, she will, most guys by definition will not meet her standards. Because everything's like a pyramid in that respect, right? At the, the bottom of the pyramid, or most as the, as everyone, right? And then you move up and, and all the people at the bottom below you are like, oh, I wanna reach up and I wanna be higher up. And they're like, why would I wanna go lower, right? And once you're at the top of the pyramid, or very close to the top, there's so many people who will be like, I wanna reach up. And you're like, well, why would I let you pull me down? And that's the struggle that happens all the time.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  You, as the individual you become, you start to radiate a certain type of energy. And it's, and hopefully it's positive, right? And as you radiate that positive energy, as you become a better person, as you become a more influential person, as you improve your life, people go, that's a, that's a great person, I wanna spend more time around that person. But then a funny thing happens, they're, they think that, but they don't, they're not at your level. And so you're like, okay, where's the trade off? You don't have all the time in the world, you have a little bit of time. So you gotta decide, am I gonna go spend time? Am I gonna give my energy? Or I'm gonna continue to do myself and do better?

• 33:29Speaker 01

  And pull those people up, hopefully, hopefully it inspires them to improve. But the, the, that, that big discord, that great discord that occurs, more people wanting your time as you become more valuable. You experience that when people will not improve, but they just want to spend time around you. Because they see you as like, you know,

• 33:53Speaker 01

  something worth spending time around.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 33:58Speaker 03

  It's me, the

• 33:59Speaker 02

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 34:01Speaker 03

  We don't need the jingle twice.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  What about a third time?

• 34:04Speaker 03

  Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Seems like they just started.

• 34:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Time to read the timeline.

• 34:19Speaker 03

  Fine, no one deals more deals than

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Priceline.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  Please stop.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  Priceline.

• 34:23Speaker 03

  Touche.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Priceline.

• 34:25Speaker 03

  Priceline.

• 34:27Speaker 04

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• 34:50Shane Parrish?

  Do you see that changing the standards of the people you hang around? Like your friends and your like, how does that influence?

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Um, okay. So I've been, I've been really fortunate. I've been the victim of positive peer pressure. I've always had great friends and they have always, uh, I feel like now I'm starting to catch up to the people they are. To put it in perspective.

• 35:11Shane Parrish?

  How did you come to the conclusion that you wanted to stop drinking?

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Uh, man, you know, I looked at everything in my life, what I wanted to accomplish, where I was going, the potential I had. I wasn't satisfied with what was in my life. And I did a quick 80, 20 analysis and I was like, huh. In fact, I used to say, I used to say, if, I used to say 95% of my problems, my personal problems are exacerbated are caused by the influence of alcohol, which is like an embarrassing thing to say now, like, man, I was content with most of my life being a shit show because of drinking. Which I mean, it wasn't that bad, right? But it just wasn't what I wanted it to be. Once I realized what I wanted it to be.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  And I looked at all the things and I said, alcohol is a commonality there. Alcohol is a commonality there. Alcohol is in all of this. What is the benefit? Do I need to keep drinking? No. Okay. See ya. And that's how I know I'm not like, that's how I know I don't, I'm not an addict. Like all the guys that I've talked to who have been able to just quit like that, are not addicted in this sense, right? A lot of the guys are the ones that like just stopped smoking cold turkey, for example. It was like, I don't want to smoke anymore. Peace. Smoke, smoked for five years and those are the, those are the true, I can quit when I want to type people. And I, and I don't smoke. I've never smoked, but I'd imagine my brain chemistry is probably so much similar.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  But yeah, I just looked at everything and I said, you know, this is not going to work for me. Now, one day I might drink again, once I've accomplished some things I want, but right now I have no desire whatsoever.

• 36:51Shane Parrish?

  What happened when you stopped? What did you notice that you didn't expect?

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Um, you ever watch Angel? The old show Angel, uh, that about the vampire with a soul? And he was a vampire, so he did a lot of ill shit as a vampire. And all of a sudden, he's got a soul and now he feels guilty about it. And so he spends a lot of time brooding and feeling bad and trying to do good to make up for all the evil we put into the world. That is something that no one warns anyone about. Like, all the people I talked to who stopped drinking, no one ever mentioned that. And I don't think I'm unique in that regard because I've mentioned it and Pete and God's right between me all the time and talk about that, that same experience. I say that

• 37:39Speaker 01

  you, it's like taking sunglasses off and seeing the light. Your eyes hurt because they're getting used to the light. And the sunglasses analogy would like your emotions. None of my emotions are muted. I feel things completely. I'm not celebrating with alcohol. I'm not drinking alcohol when I'm down. I gotta experience and enjoy life the right way. And likewise, I can look back at all the stupid things that I did and all the stupid ways I may have behaved. And I feel genuinely terrible about it. And no one ever warns you that that's what happens.

• 38:13Shane Parrish?

  How did it change the people you hang around?

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Um, well, well, unfortunate, well, because I have the good friends, right? Uh, so it didn't really change that at all. It has absolutely, I, I know myself well enough to know that if I was still drinking, I probably wouldn't have gotten to my, my relationship now. Not because I would have been like mean to her, I just would have been an asshole. I'd have been out at night, maybe chasing girls or something. Who knows? But it is, in terms of the people that I hang around, I'm probably not meeting people that I would have met. I'm not getting invited to things where I would feel bored. Uh, I got a theory about people, at least my kind of drinker. I got a theory. I, I go like,

• 38:57Speaker 01

  I'm gonna be like bored here. So I'm gonna drink. I'm gonna make it exciting for myself. Have some fun. A lot of stuff bores me, so I don't go to a lot of stuff now. But I do love spending time one on one with my friends. Like the way we're talking right now, that's how I do all of my socializing. I haven't been to a group event. I'm going to a birthday party this weekend, but it's like all a person that I know really well and is a really good friend and inviting me and understands how I think and view the world. So I know I'll be fine there. For the most part, yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't spend any time on group activities because it's boring, man.

• 39:35Shane Parrish?

  You're a huge believer

• 39:38Shane Parrish?

  that hard work and discipline are a precursor to success or deserve success. Can you tell me about how you would instill that in other people like kids or when you're coaching kids? How do you foster that?

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Kids have to get used to the idea that there's no such thing as being naturally gifted. So the first thing you do, I mean, we're going to work from the assumption that children are blank slate. Whether you believe that or not is irrelevant, but for the sake of this argument, there's enough truth in it that we can use that as a basis for what I'm going to say. You have to begin speaking to children immediately in terms of effort as opposed to innate ability. There's no such thing as a good child. There is a such thing as a child that was able to wait 10 minutes and be quiet. There's no such thing as a kid that's good at math. There is a kid that was able to struggle through a problem.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  You don't want to get children used to the idea of instant gratification. There's an odd that they have to wait for things. They have to work and earn everything. Even if it's a small thing, I don't know. When I say work and earn, I mean, they have to get used to the idea of effort equals a thing. Like if a kid wants to go like have candy, I'm not saying don't give them candy, right? I mean, I am saying that at the core, but but for this argument, I'm not saying don't give them candy. Say, okay, you want candy, I'm going to need you to do X, Y, or Z. I mean, obviously, like, good moral things that will help them become better, but they must learn the concept of exchange.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  I think this, I think the quicker you can get a child to understand the idea of exchange. I mean, and I'm speaking hypothetically, man, I'm sure as a parent or a few hearing is going, that's impossible. Maybe it is, but based on some experiences in my past, I've got more experience raising children than people probably uh think or know. With that said, I think the sooner you get a kid to understand that nothing in the world is free. Right? That you get, and they they don't have to like have an economics understanding, they just gotta understand, I gotta do a thing for a thing to happen. If I don't do something, some bad things don't happen, and that's what good parents do.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  You just, you just gotta keep it up with academics and behavior and things like that. And I think that you start there. As they get older, I think the, I think the sooner you can uh get them into some type of skill-based thing or effort-based thing that will make them see the value of practice and work, I think that's good too. Uh, you know, whether it's, it's like, there's this thing, Kinder Music going on now, and or you can get a kid to go like run. Even go on running with you, just having fun with that, just getting them comfortable with the idea, like, life is not always enjoyable.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  It's not necessarily bad, it's just not always a pleasant show of relaxing and having a good time. You wanna get them to see that.

• 42:52Shane Parrish?

  It's not supposed to all be enjoyable, right? But uh, so often, it seems like parents are focused on preventing disappointment, only giving happiness, not instilling this.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  And that is not life, I mean, that's like. That's the equivalent of of raising a teenager in college and expecting them to understand the real world. Right? And see how that's turning out so so far for a lot of young kids. People cannot expect the world to always be nice. That's just foolish. It's way better. What's that saying? I love some of these cliches, man. I got a few of them. It's not about waiting for the rain to stop. It's learning how to dance during a storm, man. And that's the truth. You don't. Cause it's ebb and flow. It can't always be good and you wouldn't want it to be good. It's like music, man. Music is not enjoyable because of the note you hit. It's the space between the notes.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  You need things to not be there. You need things to not be good to appreciate when they are there, when they are good. People try to avoid that not part all the time, only to realize that it's just not fun, right?

• 43:57Shane Parrish?

  You had some pretty profound thoughts on relationships in your book as well. Can you kind of walk me through your your high level view of your philosophy on this?

• 44:07Speaker 01

  My great, my my high level view of relationships is that it's better to build a life and bring a person into it than it is to try and build a life around a person. If I could sum up everything and give you like the meta framework to work with. That is the framework you want to start with. You want to go, all right, how am I going to become a better person? And that's going to force you to become a better person. That's going to force you to grow. It's going to force you to improve. It's going to force you to become more attractive. It's going to force you to focus on any goal. And then when you meet the right person, then the right person is better able to fit in. Cause there's not going to be compromise. I think compromise is one of the worst things you you make in a relationship.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  You have to make it on some things. Like

• 44:57Shane Parrish?

  Well, explain that to me, like the compromise.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  So you should compromise on certain behaviors, right? You should improve, you should. You should learn how, because you're never going to be 100% compatible with a person. And that's not the goal. The goal is like, okay, you're 75% compatible. How do we make that 25% work? That's where you start compromising. But when I hear stories about guys moving all the way across the country for a girl, they they have only been with for six months. I'm like, probably better for you to just meet one there and you'll be happy with instead of the stress of a new one. Or when I hear like, what's one of some of the worst ones I've heard? I had so many stories. Uh, a girl, th- this is an extreme version, right?

• 45:41Speaker 01

  A girl that decides she's going to forsake her entire family to marry a guy. I'm like, okay.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  I see what you're, I see the idea like, and I agree with it in theory. In application, you have just ended the entire association with the people that invested. Tommy, now granted, you didn't ask to be here, whatever, but there's a lineage and a history that comes with that. I mean, that you're depriving your future offspring of having a family and for what? So you could do a thing. Far better to build around the life that you are actively making. Some of that is circumstance, your family, some of that is career that you're making. But I, I think, I think prematurely getting into a relationship means the relationship won't work. There's just, the foundation is just not as strong and people forget the foundation starts with you.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  It's not with the people, it starts with you. And then when your foundation is strong, you select better, you have better standards. You know, I remember there's an inverse relationship between the amount of crazy I dealt with and where I was at in my life in terms of the women. And now that I'm at a stable position, I have such a wonderful person. I, I sit there sometimes and I go, man, I didn't fucked up. I don't know when, when it's going like, correct itself, but like it will. And I feel that way. I mean, yeah. So, so some guys listening, you know, everyone might call it like a beta idea, but like, no. I, I feel genuinely blessed, right? And I sit there and I go, man, this ain't gonna last. Like, like it's a weird thought, but that's the thought you should have, I guess. You should.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  And likewise, I'm, I'm sure, or I hope anyhow, that she has a similar thought, right? And.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  If you're approaching the ideal, if you're approaching something that does not exist, but you want to exist, you should be approaching a relationship as if you're introducing you like you're hiring for a company. You wouldn't build a company around somebody that you that you're not with yet. No, you build the company first. You find the employees that fit or the employee, uh, whatever your your style is. But that is my high level view. Everything else I say, I think, I mean, unless I'm total content, everything else I say can be traced to making that idea happen.

• 48:01Shane Parrish?

  You also mentioned something about, uh, I forget the exact wording, but it was like you can learn more about watching a couple argue for five minutes than be happy for five years. What did you mean by?

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness, man. This is this is beautiful. And you can, you can tell a lot. Because look, everybody is great friends when everything is getting along. Every, every relationship is perfect when it's perfect. When it's not going well, then you get to learn about,

• 48:30Speaker 01

  okay, like we were saying about how music is not just the notes playing, but it's the notes not playing. Life is not just about the enjoyable parts. It's about the not enjoyable parts too. Everybody gets into relationships with that same mentality that's gotta be fixed. They want it to be good all the time, but that ain't gonna happen. So when it goes bad, then you get to learn, okay, how do we, how is this person's conflict resolution? How do they work together? How do they see problems? I can't tell you how many people I watched that see disagreements is an attack on the other person and as a way to bring down, that's how they view victory in an argument, bring the other person down on us.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  Instead, if you want to make a relationship work, right? And this is just how I would do it. You you need to look at it as a here's a problem, but we gotta solve. How are we going to solve this? And us not solving it is part of the disagreement right now. In fact, we I could even say it is the sole disagreement. This problem that we have and we have two different ways, two different approaches, perspectives on how to solve it. The key, this is where that compromise now becomes important. It's not important in the eighty percent. It's that twenty percent that you disagree and that's where the compromise is important. How are you guys gonna work together to get the thing done? So you can learn a lot. You you can't learn a thing about a couple when they're having a good time. You learn everything when they're having a bad time.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  Who yells, who raises their voice, who shuts off? Who broaches the subject objectively? Who starts attacking character as opposed to the problem? Who brings up old stuff? All this is comes of who stays on target. You look at this, you can get a whole map and the more experience you have looking at this, the more you can look at a a couple and go. I know exactly how long you have left like.

• 50:25Shane Parrish?

  Yeah. What what's your experience with couples that are happy and how they argue? Is it all about kind of that compromise or trying to find a solution instead of mudslinging or?

• 50:38Speaker 01

  I have a buddy coming up this getting married. He's been in with his girl for like two years and and my best friend out in L A. I was the best man at his wedding, getting married when we were twenty three. So and they were together for like four years beforehand. Uh, so over ten years. How do they argue? I haven't really seen it. My my friend getting married coming up in June argued, but but the couple in Cali, I've seen them argue a few times. They. They never. I want to say never, but very rarely. No, right now, I mean, I've never seen it. I'm thinking about it. They don't insult one another.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  That that always stood out to me. And I always took that as a powerful lesson. They never insult one another. Now, they are highly critical of how one might handle the problem that occurs. But in terms of character assassinations, those do not happen. They're focused on solving the problem, not on destroying each other. You know, they don't view each other as adversaries. And that's what happens. And I think that's the commonality. All the happy couples I watched, they'd never ever view each other as adversaries. Ever. They're always some, always in my house, I use the word team a lot. I'm like, we're a team, we're working together.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  As long as we're together, as far as I'm concerned, we're a team. And you either on my team or you're not on my team. She's bought into that and that's good. So I think that's a really powerful framework. That's the framework I certainly observe in all the successful couples that I have had a chance to see up close and personal. I'm not talking about people who got married in like the sixties where it was a different game.

• 52:16Shane Parrish?

  Yeah.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  This, man, when I get married, it was 2008, maybe. Teamwork, man. Teamwork, working together, pick each other up when one goes down. You know, whether there's all this argument out there today about whether that's even possible or fond or not. Um, it definitely is possible, but you gotta build the life you want and you gotta want that. Some guys don't want it. Some guys don't want to put the work in to build a life. But when you, when you do those two things, then you attract a person that will be a great teammate for you.

• 52:42Shane Parrish?

  What's, what's your philosophy of happiness and what that means and how to achieve it?

• 52:47Speaker 01

  Happiness is, happiness is not an average rate, man. It's, it's a rate of change. You're there, I go thinking in calculus, right? If a person is sitting still, no matter where they're at, whether they have a bunch, use money. Person has a bunch of money or no money. They just sit still and do nothing. In their life, they're gonna be unhappy. We tend to think of people being rich as happy, but no, there's nothing for, nothing that pushes them, nothing that makes them grow and change. You can be miserable being poor, you can be miserable being rich. You can be miserable in a relationship, you can be miserable, single. What are you doing to push yourself? All happiness is, in my opinion, is a person pushing towards something.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Not the avoidance part, that struggle is this weird type of intertwined duality. And you're pushing towards some, pain is part of it, happiness is like the other part. And they all kind of work together. And if you rest on your laurels too long, you'll become unhappy. But you always have to push towards something. And if a person wants to be have a happy life, they must always have a challenge to push towards. This is why I think the people I observe who are great parents are not even great parents, are good parents. There's a general, I don't want to call it likeness, because that's not correct. Levity, maybe, I don't know, they feel that every day has a purpose.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Because the purpose is raising this little person. And because there's purpose, there are goals, maybe not explicitly stated, but certainly outcomes that one is trying to achieve. Processes they're trying to enjoy. And I think that's why having kids does such a thing for a person. They say having kids makes you grow up, makes you mature, whatever. I think what it really does is it makes you focus on what's going to make you happy. And you got to make it happen in that process and you quickly realize that happiness is not

• 54:46Speaker 01

  material. It's easy to have a temporary boost of happiness with a material thing, but all it is is a change in position. There's that rate of change. Once the change isn't happening anymore, you're back to being unhappy. So your whole life, if you want to be happy, you got to push towards something. Does that matter what you push towards? Doesn't matter what you want to be, what you're trying to become, but you got to be trying to become, you have to try to become something.

• 55:10Shane Parrish?

  You have an interesting philosophy on that too. You said, don't, don't tell people what you're trying to become. Just talk about what you have become.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. Social media age, right? We are affected with this.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  This disease of self-promotion, but we're not self-promoting what we've done. We're self-promoting what we plan to do. And then we get a bunch of people to go, oh, man. Good luck. Go for it. You go, girl. Whatever you see. And your brain, and this, I mean, this is true. There's a lot of research on this. Your brain goes, holy shit, look at all this approval. We must already did it. Why are we gonna keep doing work now? We're going to stack off. There's, there's just no benefit to talking about what you've done. At best case scenario, you do it.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  Right? Which, which we're trying to do. Worst case, you don't. And if you don't, now you've told all these people that you are going to, but there's nothing to show. So now what do you do? You, you hop on, what do they call it? The dopamine treadmill. You get back on and you talk about the newest goal. I mean, I don't, I don't know. I don't think I've seen you on Facebook at all, but I'm sure there's some version of this on Twitter though. Twitter tends to skew kind of different in terms of the activity that goes on amongst the users. You see every, someone goes, I'm trying to lose this amount of weight. I want to do this. I'm going to start this. And people go, there's a bunch of likes and there's a big rally behind it.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  And in three months, same shit, they're in the same spot. Nothing happened, nothing changed. Why? Because they get all the validation. Your brain, look.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  I'm never going to be the guy that says motivation doesn't count. For a thing and motivation is important, but it's a finite resource and it will exhaust itself. And when that falls off, you gotta rely on maybe habits, system and necessity. All kinds of things to get you through. But because that system is in place, it can be hijacked. And one of the ways we hijack is we go and we, we get all this false recognition. It feel, look, man. I've gotten, I've gotten a reasonable amount of recognition in my life for things that I have done. I'll tell you what, it's a lot, it feels a lot better and it's a lot less nerve wracking. When a person congratulates me for something and then they can also go look it up independently online and go, oh, okay. Right?

• 57:40Shane Parrish?

  He really did that.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  It is but but if if a person but if I if I chime in like when I'm like a buddy tells me he wants to do something. I go, cool, man. I I never ask about it again because I don't want I don't want to stress them on. I know they ain't do it. Otherwise, they'd be they'd be all over it. Tell I would hear I wouldn't. I didn't hear all about it, right? But you you you don't hear the result and.

• 58:06Shane Parrish?

  You talked about habits and systems there. Uh. What's one habit you've changed recently that's made a profound impact on you?

• 58:17Speaker 01

  Do you want to know this is silly, man? This is this is real silly, but it but it's true. I wash the dishes as soon as I'm done eating.

• 58:26Shane Parrish?

  How how has that impacted you?

• 58:28Speaker 01

  All right, so so I don't know if you.

• 58:30Shane Parrish?

  When I was growing up, my mom used to do that like right away. You'd be like eating your last bite and she'd be grabbing the plate and.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, so I used to make that bed up immediately when I got out of it every morning. But but I didn't. And then I switched it to the dishes. What does this do? First of all, it establishes some like regularity. Two, I gotta do the dishes anyway. If I'm already up and moving around. Man, I'm telling you, this is the best part about studying sciences, right? Not not like this the knowledge, but the analogies you can make. Man, inertia is real. The minute you sit down, you do not want to get up. And if you keep moving, you don't want to stop. That's all inertia is, right? And objects, you know, resistance to a change if it's acceleration.

• 59:20Speaker 01

  If you if I'm if I'm already up moving around, putting dishes in and I just while I'm standing, I go, all right, man, let me I'm just do these dishes right now. Now I don't have to think about it. It's already taken care of. And when I sit down to go do something else, I don't have to worry about doing work. Or rather, I don't have to worry about interrupting my work to do that. I don't have to worry about going there to catch the kitchen smelling funny. I don't have to worry about the cats creeping out. I don't have to worry about my girl going wild cooked. When when them dishes going to get done? You know, I don't have to worry about any of that. I have all I've done. It's a small thing, but I've relieved so much. And maybe that that maybe that is a um a sign of how cool life is these days that like that little hijack makes such a big difference.

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  But I think the bigger lesson is that if you can take advantage of inertia. And just do things when you're already moving. So you don't have to start restart, start restart. Your life will be a lot easier. You, you don't have to think about motivation to, to do your dishes or, or clean your room or do your homework, or whatever you gotta do or go running. It's why I get out of bed. Uh, my, my secret to, to getting up early is just to start moving. You don't have to have to do anything. Just don't sit down for 15 minutes. You'll be, you'd be surprised by how I wake you all minutes 16, you know?

• 1:00:38Shane Parrish?

  This has been an amazing conversation, Ed. Where can people find you online?

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Um, my Twitter account is great. I'm always saying stuff on there. That's how you found me. So that's at Ed Latimore, L A T I M O R E. An E D at the beginning, Ed Latimore, one word. I'm hoping that someone on the website spelled out. Uh, and my website is just www.edlatimore.com. So my name, I own my name, always own your name, man. I learned that early on in the, uh, in the internet game. You own your name and people can find you easier. So Ed Latimore, just like it'll be titled on the podcast, on Twitter and on, and my website. And I'm also on Facebook. I have a Facebook page, but I post there occasionally. Sign up for the mailing list, see some things. I was sent an email out today about some stuff that I don't always post because I'm all, I like to communicate with everyone

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  and just express my thoughts and likewise get thoughts back. So I'd love if you stopped by and dropped some thoughts off.

• 1:01:33Shane Parrish?

  Thank you so much. This has been great.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  Thank you very much.

• 1:01:41Shane Parrish?

  Hey guys, this is Shane again. Just a few more things before we wrap up. You can find show notes at farnamstreetblog.com/podcast. That's F A R N A M S T R E E T B L O G dot com slash podcast. You can also find information there on how to get a transcript. And if you'd like to receive a weekly email from me filled with all sorts of brain food, go to farnamstreetblog.com/newsletter. This is all the good stuff I've found on the web that week that I've read and shared with close friends, books I'm reading and so much more. Thank you for listening.