UFC Champion Tom Aspinall: Baddest Man on the Planet?

It starts as a therapy session, but ends with Tom Aspinall and Joe Marler wrestling on the mat... In between, Tom opens up about how he first got into MMA and what it actually feels like to know you're the best heavyweight on the planet - the mindset, discipline, and sacrifices nobody sees behind the title. The conversation turns to retirement, and Joe shares his own experience of stepping away from rugby (three times), as they compare the hardest question in sport: knowing when it's time to stop. GET TICKETS TO THE LIVE TOUR HERE:https://www.livenation.co.uk/joe-marler-will-see-you-live-tickets-adp1647830 Featuring Joe Marler (@joemarler17) and Jake Bhardwaj (@jakebhardwajtv)Follow the show on Instagram: @willseeyounowshow Joe Marler Will See You Now is a Platform Media production. Shopify: Every self-made person started somewhere. Your journey starts for free at ⁠shopify.co.uk⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:24Speaker 01

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• 0:54Speaker 02

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• 1:24Speaker 03

  Joe?

• 1:25Speaker 04

  Jake!

• 1:26Speaker 03

  Joe, you've treated me. You know what you've done?

• 1:29Speaker 04

  You needed treating, mate.

• 1:30Speaker 03

  You know what you've done, don't you?

• 1:32Speaker 04

  You were riddled with it.

• 1:33Speaker 03

  That's not how you treated me, and we weren't going to talk about that. New plant, innit?

• 1:39Speaker 04

  You are welcome.

• 1:40Speaker 03

  Thank you very much.

• 1:41Speaker 04

  No, welcome.

• 1:41Speaker 03

  For weeks and weeks, I've been sat with this, like, this decaying plant, which everyone's been saying, like, "God, he looks a bit crusty in the corner over there." And now you've got me, um, this lovely thing here, which I've been told, just before we started, is a, um, a plant that is a symbol of the swingers' society.

• 1:57Speaker 04

  Pampas grass.

• 1:58Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:59Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:59Speaker 03

  So you knew what we were doing?

• 2:01Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, because I just got it from my neighbour.

• 2:04Speaker 03

  Right, okay.

• 2:05Speaker 04

  I've also got one at home.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  I didn't know you swung.

• 2:09Speaker 04

  Hmm?

• 2:10Speaker 03

  So you got this off your who?

• 2:12Speaker 04

  My neighbour. Daisy goes around there quite a lot.

• 2:16Speaker 03

  Does she?

• 2:17Speaker 04

  Yeah. Just for the record, my neighbour is my mother-in-law.

• 2:23Speaker 04

  I feel sick.

• 2:25Speaker 03

  Before we introduce today's guest, what do we want people to do, Joe?

• 2:28Speaker 04

  I want the people out there to follow us, subscribe on YouTube.

• 2:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33Speaker 04

  Just follow us on Instagram, follow us on the TikTok, the Tiki Toker.

• 2:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38Speaker 04

  Spotify, YouTube, Apple, you name it. Get it in your bucket.

• 2:42Speaker 03

  You nailed that.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  We've got a podcast first today.

• 2:48Speaker 04

  Ooh.

• 2:52Speaker 04

  I'm excited!

• 2:53Speaker 03

  Very exciting.

• 2:54Speaker 04

  I'm excited! Ay, yo, whoa, whoa, whoa, chill. Chill in the room.

• 2:59Speaker 03

  Can everyone calm down, please?

• 3:02Speaker 04

  It's electrifying!

• 3:03Speaker 03

  We've got, we've got John Travolta.

• 3:05Speaker 04

  You gotta say, "Pup, pup, pup, because I need men."

• 3:09Speaker 03

  We've got our first professional athlete.

• 3:13Speaker 04

  Wasn't, wasn't that me?

• 3:15Speaker 03

  As a guest. Sorry.

• 3:17Speaker 04

  Oh, yes, sorry, yes. The guest, yes, yes.

• 3:19Speaker 03

  Also, you've, you've got, you always sort of play down the fact that you're a professional athlete.

• 3:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know, because I wasn't, was I?

• 3:24Speaker 03

  You were.

• 3:24Speaker 04

  Oh, fuck off, Jake. It's not this self-deprecating bollocks I give you all the time.

• 3:29Speaker 03

  It is self-deprecating bollocks.

• 3:30Speaker 04

  No, it's not, it's factual.

• 3:31Speaker 03

  I Googled you the other day.

• 3:32Speaker 04

  I used to smoke constantly and drink and fucking do no extras and do this. I just gave all that I could do and could have done better but didn't do better because I couldn't actually do any better and I did enough and then there was the ceiling. Couldn't break through the ceiling, just did enough and that was it.

• 3:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you're up there with some of the great British sports people, our, our great darts players, our great snooker players, you.

• 3:53Speaker 04

  Right.

• 3:53Speaker 03

  Drinking, smoking, but getting the job done.

• 3:55Speaker 04

  So you named two things that aren't actually sports and then named me.

• 3:59Speaker 03

  Bit harsh on the old darts players.

• 4:01Speaker 04

  What's harsh about it? It's a fantastic game.

• 4:06Speaker 03

  You wouldn't call it a sport?

• 4:07Speaker 04

  I'm a massive dart fan, I'm a massive snooker fan.

• 4:10Speaker 03

  They are sports.

• 4:11Speaker 04

  They're not sports. Name something athletic about the three of those sports.

• 4:15Speaker 03

  Um, so, uh, with darts, it's aim and accuracy.

• 4:21Speaker 04

  But it's a game.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Would you call archery, um, a sport?

• 4:25Speaker 04

  No.

• 4:26Speaker 03

  Wow. So you're saying that everything is athletic, which means that what you did was be an athlete. I cornered you into your own trap, you idiot.

• 4:38Speaker 04

  Hey, touche.

• 4:39Speaker 03

  So rugby, so rugby is an athletic sport. Come on!

• 4:42Speaker 04

  Touche, come on. We've got our first athlete in the chair, though.

• 4:46Speaker 03

  In the chair, man. He is a titan of MMA. The undisputed UFC heavyweight champion of the world.

• 4:53Speaker 04

  The undisputed heavyweight champion of the world!

• 4:58Speaker 03

  Holding the record for the shortest average fight time of 2 minutes and 18 seconds.

• 5:03Speaker 04

  2 minutes and 18 seconds!

• 5:05Speaker 03

  It's Tom Aspinall!

• 5:06Speaker 04

  Tom Aspinall!

• 5:12Speaker 03

  Great lung capacity, brother. What do you want to ask him that you're not sure if you can?

• 5:18Speaker 03

  I sort of want to ask him, does he wear pants under the pants?

• 5:22Speaker 04

  Pants under the pants?

• 5:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. What do you want to ask him?

• 5:25Speaker 04

  Is he actually as hard as he has to be for his sport?

• 5:27Speaker 03

  Or is he a bit of a softie?

• 5:28Speaker 04

  Bit of a softie.

• 5:29Speaker 03

  That's what they like saying, isn't it? He's a real softie, actually, isn't he?

• 5:32Speaker 04

  Oh, he's just a cuddly bear.

• 5:33Speaker 03

  He's a cuddly bear, he's a softie, really. People say that about you all the time. Oh my god. Oh, what's he like, what's he, what's he like then? I bet he's a bit, I bet he's a big softie. They always say that.

• 5:42Speaker 04

  What do you say?

• 5:43Speaker 03

  I say, I say, "Well, yeah, I don't know." Do you know what? You two are going to be these big, scary blokes having a lovely chat. I'm just staying out of it today. I just want to observe two men who've been in hard, physical contact, exchange battle stories, that's what I want.

• 6:01Speaker 04

  Battle stories?

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, you, him talking about, like, the fights he's had, sort of naked in the, in the octagon with all these, like, men, taking fists to the face.

• 6:10Speaker 04

  Why is it called an octagon?

• 6:12Speaker 03

  Uh, I think because it's got eight sides.

• 6:16Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 6:16Speaker 03

  I'm worried about what it will say about our level of journalism if, if we ask him, "Why is an octagon called an octagon?" I just don't know if you want to lead with that. I'll tell you what, I'm sure Tom and Janet are having a nice time, though. They'll, they'll, they'll have been getting on. Janet used to, um, Janet used to spend a lot of time in the octagon, actually. She was, I think she MMA champion for Lincolnshire under-21s? Wasn't she? So she had, she had a bit of experience with it.

• 6:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:46Speaker 04

  So you think they're having a bit of a roll out there now?

• 6:49Speaker 03

  They might be, I don't know. I don't know, give her a course if she picks up.

• 6:52Speaker 04

  Hello, Janet! Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, very excited, yeah. Can you send Tom in, please? Thank you.

• 7:03Speaker 04

  Tom Aspinall, everybody!

• 7:05Speaker 03

  Hey! Come on! Hi, Joe. Hello. Yeah. Hi, Tom. Oh, hello. We're very excited to have you, Tom, because you are the first professional athlete we've had in the chair. Oh, really? Why, why is that, then? Yeah, but I don't know, maybe Joe's had a version of, like, he likes being the only professional athlete in the room. I don't know.

• 7:26Speaker 04

  Sure, sure.

• 7:28Speaker 03

  And you're also only the second ever guest we've had where everyone in the room has gone, just sort of stood up a little bit taller when you come in. Joe's quite short, though. You are quite short, though, aren't you?

• 7:40Speaker 03

  You are shorter than, you're actually a little bit better looking than I thought, but shorter. So you score, if you're like a six, if, you know what I mean, it levels out. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

• 7:53Speaker 04

  So the bit, you said, "If I'm like a six." So am I a six?

• 7:59Speaker 03

  I'd say you were seven.

• 8:02Speaker 04

  So why didn't you say, "If I was a seven"?

• 8:04Speaker 03

  I don't know, it was just the first thing that came into my mind.

• 8:06Speaker 04

  It is a fact, though, aren't they?

• 8:08Speaker 03

  It, it's all yours.

• 8:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, they are, to be fair. It's a big day for cauliflowers on the pod, isn't it? This one, this one's inside. That's an inside one. That's an inny. That, that's a bit more of an outy, isn't it?

• 8:21Speaker 04

  Both hideous.

• 8:21Speaker 03

  Are yours, are yours closed up, Tom? Because Joe's a, Joe. No, mine's not as bad as Joe's. That, that one's really bad, innit? Your right one.

• 8:27Speaker 04

  Is it?

• 8:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is. No, that's your left. Oh, that one's bad as well.

• 8:31Speaker 04

  Full name?

• 8:32Speaker 03

  Thomas.

• 8:34Speaker 04

  Prefers Tom.

• 8:35Speaker 03

  Paul is the middle name.

• 8:36Speaker 04

  As in John Paul?

• 8:37Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 8:38Speaker 04

  But without the John?

• 8:39Speaker 03

  No, John. Aspinall is the surname, with the double O.

• 8:44Speaker 04

  Star sign?

• 8:45Speaker 03

  Aries.

• 8:46Speaker 04

  Ooh, like the water.

• 8:48Speaker 03

  Don't know, don't know much about star sign, what, you?

• 8:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, Cancer.

• 8:52Speaker 03

  How old are you going to be in July?

• 8:54Speaker 04

  36.

• 8:59Speaker 03

  Fuck's that? For the audio listener, that's made Tom laugh. Were you born in the 90s?

• 9:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was born in the 90s. So were you.

• 9:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know, but. That's the mad, that's the point. I feel like you look significantly older than me.

• 9:11Speaker 04

  In the politest way possible?

• 9:13Speaker 03

  Significantly, though.

• 9:14Speaker 04

  Oh, god.

• 9:15Speaker 03

  No, not, not a little bit, like, there's a big jump. You two are three years apart, that for me is insane.

• 9:20Speaker 04

  Occupation?

• 9:22Speaker 03

  Um, professional athlete.

• 9:25Speaker 04

  Interesting.

• 9:26Speaker 03

  Keep it vague.

• 9:28Speaker 04

  Hmm, why?

• 9:29Speaker 03

  Keep the people guessing.

• 9:29Speaker 04

  Why?

• 9:30Speaker 03

  Why not? Would you ever have Joe come up to the gym for a bit of a sparring sesh? If he wants.

• 9:35Speaker 04

  No.

• 9:35Speaker 03

  You're welcome, if you want to come.

• 9:38Speaker 04

  I think Jake wants to.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  We do have a podcast room as well. Better than this, it's better than this, I'll be honest.

• 9:44Speaker 03

  Tom Aspinall's The Inner Game, it's called. The Inner Game.

• 9:48Speaker 04

  The Inner Game? As in the game in?

• 9:50Speaker 03

  What's going on up there, yeah.

• 9:51Speaker 04

  Inner.

• 9:52Speaker 03

  It's, it's coming out soon. And it's going to be, uh, it'll definitely be better than this.

• 9:59Speaker 04

  No, hang on. Let me help you with this. It's already out?

• 10:04Speaker 03

  My podcast.

• 10:05Speaker 04

  Your podcast is already, no, no, it is.

• 10:07Speaker 03

  It is, in, in, in terms of.

• 10:08Speaker 04

  When we come out, we're out.

• 10:10Speaker 03

  We're flying.

• 10:11Speaker 04

  You love it?

• 10:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's going great. It's doing bloody well, isn't it? Yeah, it's going great, yeah. Let's recall a quickly, quickly another version. Shame about the podcast not doing well. Oh, no, mate, it's doing great. It's doing great. Back to the other version, bloody hell, it is very good. Tell us about the podcast, what happens on the podcast? We have guests, we have a chat, and we talk about, um, successful people, mindset, how they got successful, how they maintain success, the journey, all the good shit. We could do with a bit of that, to be honest with you. Yeah, you could.

• 10:40Speaker 04

  Well, we have.

• 10:41Speaker 03

  You could.

• 10:42Speaker 04

  We got, we got Tom on.

• 10:43Speaker 03

  We got Tom on.

• 10:43Speaker 04

  Current mental state?

• 10:45Speaker 03

  Stable.

• 10:46Speaker 04

  Current physical state?

• 10:48Speaker 03

  Ripped.

• 10:54Speaker 04

  Rank these creatures in order of how busy they'd be in a scrap. Eagle, bear, lion. Hang on.

• 11:02Speaker 03

  What do you mean by busy though?

• 11:03Speaker 04

  Like busy. I was gonna say, oh you busy fuck.

• 11:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 11:07Speaker 04

  Just fight. Um, eagle, bear, lion.

• 11:14Speaker 04

  Bear in mind that the bear's actually done some time in prison.

• 11:19Speaker 03

  Right. Uh, eagle number one. Wow. They can fly. Simple defence tactics, isn't it? Fly off.

• 11:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, so he wouldn't engage in any of the fights?

• 11:28Speaker 03

  Well, he could engage whenever he wants.

• 11:30Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  And then just get off. Hit and don't be hit is the aim of the game, isn't it?

• 11:36Speaker 04

  I thought beating fuck out of people was the aim.

• 11:38Speaker 03

  Well, it is, but in a smart way. That's why he's a professional. Yeah.

• 11:42Speaker 04

  Who's taking the silver medal?

• 11:45Speaker 03

  Is it a lion?

• 11:46Speaker 04

  It's a lion or a bear?

• 11:47Speaker 03

  Lion would take down a bear, wouldn't it?

• 11:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, like, ah!

• 11:50Speaker 03

  I think so. I don't know.

• 11:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  Be interesting, wouldn't it?

• 11:53Speaker 04

  And a bear. Bear who's been to prison is number three?

• 11:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:56Speaker 04

  Right. Makes sense. Expected retirement age?

• 12:03Speaker 04

  Thirty-three, are you?

• 12:04Speaker 03

  You're thirty-three. Um...

• 12:06Speaker 04

  In your prime.

• 12:07Speaker 03

  You're retired now, yeah?

• 12:08Speaker 04

  Your prime bit of beef. It's not about mates, but you... But yes.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  I was hoping for advice, to be honest.

• 12:13Speaker 04

  On retirement?

• 12:14Speaker 03

  Just, yeah. What's the right age?

• 12:17Speaker 04

  Fucking hell. Um...

• 12:19Speaker 03

  We did it three times.

• 12:20Speaker 04

  Twenty-six.

• 12:22Speaker 03

  So he was never really short.

• 12:23Speaker 04

  Twenty-six, twenty-eight, thirty-four.

• 12:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 12:27Speaker 04

  They're all the three ages you should consider.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  I was gonna go like thirty-seven. I reckon that'd be all right.

• 12:32Speaker 04

  Uh, most famous person who's been in your DMs?

• 12:36Speaker 03

  Mark Zuckerberg messaged me.

• 12:37Speaker 04

  The fucking Facebook guy?

• 12:39Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 12:39Speaker 04

  The meta, who did, they did the film on?

• 12:42Speaker 03

  Yep. He's messaged me a couple of times. Yep. What's he got to say for himself?

• 12:50Speaker 04

  I can't remember. What's he got to say for himself?

• 12:53Speaker 03

  Is he just sort of a big fan, that sort of stuff? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, he's been at a couple of my fights.

• 12:57Speaker 04

  Oh, he has, doesn't he? Does he do the walkout with some?

• 13:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think he has done with a couple of guys, yeah. He's a big fan. Big UFC fan.

• 13:04Speaker 04

  Uh, finally, do you consent to being analised by someone who's not a real doctor?

• 13:08Speaker 03

  Um, say that again?

• 13:11Speaker 04

  Do you consent to being analysed by someone who's not a real doctor?

• 13:14Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, that's fine, that's fine.

• 13:17Speaker 04

  Sure. It's always good to test the water.

• 13:22Speaker 03

  What, in case he said yes? To the anal bit. What do you mean? What are you talking about?

• 13:31Speaker 04

  Enough of the silly stuff now, Tom.

• 13:33Speaker 03

  Right, go on.

• 13:37Speaker 04

  You've, uh, it's, sorry, it is mental having you across the desk. You're the fucking UFC world heavyweight champion.

• 13:45Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 13:46Speaker 04

  Like, you're a legit, serious, professional sportsman and you're dominating the world in a fighting combat sport.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  Yes. You're the world's deadliest man? Uh, don't know about that. Well, don't know. You're up there.

• 14:00Speaker 03

  Hand-to-hand combat. Hmm. Street, not, maybe not in a street, not great at street fighting.

• 14:04Speaker 04

  I'm known in the industry as a bit handsy, myself.

• 14:08Speaker 03

  Oh, I don't think you want that clipped up, mate. I don't think you want that clipped up.

• 14:13Speaker 04

  What did I say?

• 14:14Speaker 03

  You said you're a bit, you said I'm known in the industry as being a bit, you said all the words that you'd need to sort of end up like Greg Wallace. I don't know what you...

• 14:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, as in, as in, hey, bit of thunder.

• 14:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 14:27Speaker 04

  Bit of lightning. You know what thunder and lightning do when they get together?

• 14:30Speaker 03

  Don't know.

• 14:33Speaker 03

  Tell me.

• 14:33Speaker 04

  They create a storm.

• 14:34Speaker 03

  Right.

• 14:35Speaker 04

  They cre, they create a giant shitstorm.

• 14:38Speaker 03

  No, but I reckon you're, you're dead slow though. Like, if you used to punch, it'd be dead slow.

• 14:42Speaker 04

  But that's why I go for the smother. Do you know what I mean? I, I suffocate you.

• 14:47Speaker 03

  Right.

• 14:47Speaker 04

  With my dab.

• 14:49Speaker 03

  Oh, with the dab?

• 14:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, my belly.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I got it. Yeah, you're like, you're just like, there's a, there's a film where Ben Stiller like jumps up slow-mo and he gets like... Yeah, I've seen, yeah.

• 14:58Speaker 04

  You see that? I can't remember. Along Came Polly? And it's like a slow-mo of him with all like this fat belly and it's thingy. That'll be you on my gut, whenever.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  I've got escapes for it. I'd escape it.

• 15:09Speaker 04

  You can't escape the custard gut, mate.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  I would, I would.

• 15:12Speaker 04

  Fair enough. Um, quite aggressive, aren't you? Um, the point I'm trying to make is, you've built a career on aggression, anger, violence. Like, that's, that's your day-to-day, isn't it? Like, of, you're the UFC world heavyweight champion. It's about beating fuck out of people. It's about punching without getting punched.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:35Speaker 04

  I wanna try and explore, and you mentioned, what, you're thirty-three?

• 15:38Speaker 03

  Thirty-three.

• 15:38Speaker 04

  Four years, you reckon about...

• 15:42Speaker 04

  I did mention it. Uh, you know, you've got some good years left in you still. But I wanna explore how you shift that mindset from Tom the fighter to Tom the human on a day-to-day basis, and also how you intend to shift it at the end. You know, when you, when it does come to that point where it's like...

• 16:06Speaker 03

  It's took a turn. The podcast took a turn, hasn't it? We weren't talking that deep before, but I'm happy with it.

• 16:11Speaker 04

  Well, fair enough.

• 16:15Speaker 04

  Let's, um, start with the basics. For those who don't know, obviously me and Jake, especially Jake, is well-versed in UFC and MMA knowledge. But for the listeners and the viewers that don't know.

• 16:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:28Speaker 04

  Um, what is UFC and what is MMA?

• 16:31Speaker 03

  Two guys, all girls these days, especially.

• 16:34Speaker 04

  They're up to no good.

• 16:35Speaker 03

  Girls, no, you're up to good.

• 16:36Speaker 04

  Making trouble in the neighbourhood?

• 16:38Speaker 03

  No.

• 16:38Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 16:39Speaker 03

  Fighting each other with, with a limited rule set.

• 16:44Speaker 03

  That's the best way I can describe it. All martial arts are included. That's why it's called mixed martial arts. You can do anything. You just basically fight each other. Looks a bit like boxing, but you're also allowed kicks, knees, elbows, and the grappling aspect as well.

• 16:57Speaker 04

  So it's more than just two people trying to knock each other out?

• 17:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's a, there's a lot of technique goes into it as well, and it's fucking exhausting. Very exhausting.

• 17:07Speaker 04

  Sure. Okay, okay. What's it like getting punched in the face?

• 17:12Speaker 03

  Um, it's not great. I won't recommend it.

• 17:14Speaker 04

  No. What's it like to punch someone?

• 17:16Speaker 03

  Better than being punched, that's for sure. Yep.

• 17:19Speaker 04

  I'm gonna be honest with you, Tom.

• 17:21Speaker 03

  Go on.

• 17:22Speaker 04

  Whenever I've got into a confrontation.

• 17:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:24Speaker 04

  Or some form of, um, fake tough guy situation.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:29Speaker 04

  Uh, and attempted to punch on, or be punched, the adrenaline is like fucking spiking.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:35Speaker 04

  There's, heart's going, your tummy's all a little bit, hee!

• 17:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:40Speaker 04

  And then when it's all done and dusted, it's like a massive come-down.

• 17:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:44Speaker 04

  And it's very similar to like crying, and I'm just like, fucking hell, just, it's drained. You're like, oh my god, that was such a thing. Does that, does that ever happen to you? Like, the adrenaline of a match or a big fight? And you're then, at the end of it, you're like...

• 17:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm always at my lowest mentally after I've won a fight.

• 18:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:02Speaker 03

  That's weird, isn't it?

• 18:03Speaker 04

  Really?

• 18:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's weird. Because you have this like massive occasion that you're preparing for. I'm preparing for a fight between ten to twelve weeks. So for that whole time, I'm like, got the one focus. Then all of a sudden... Oh, and then the weirdest thing is like, I live now, the middle of nowhere.

• 18:21Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 18:22Speaker 03

  And then, for example, I fought in Madison Square Garden.

• 18:26Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  So you can get like twenty-five thousand people screaming, and then like two days after, you're just at home on your own. And you're just thinking, what the fucking hell's, what's this? Do you know what I mean? It's a bit of a, it's a bit of a stranger.

• 18:40Speaker 04

  What do I do now?

• 18:41Speaker 03

  I know it sounds weird, but when you're in like a big fight, are you actually feeling the pain in the moment, or does it all happen after? I just wondered if the adrenaline would just... When I first started my career, I couldn't really feel anything. Didn't feel like anything. But then, you get used to being able to deal with like that adrenaline stuff, and I can feel it more now than I used to. Also, I had a couple of fi, well, four fights, actually, with, in Covid, and there was no crowd or anything. And you could hear the punches and kicks way more, because obviously usually there's like a crowd, and you could hear it, and that felt like it was more painful than it was without... You know what I mean? You'd get punched and it'd be like, you couldn't hear it. The sound of it exacerbated the pain?

• 19:23Speaker 03

  Also, I could hear my opponents when I punched them. They were like letting out some noise and stuff, which you don't usually notice. You don't usually notice that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, stuff like that, yeah. Woo! Yeah. Have you, have you ever fought much outside of the sport? What, street fighting? Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm not very good. Not very good. And when does that, yeah?

• 19:43Speaker 04

  What? Are we buying that?

• 19:45Speaker 03

  Not very good, yeah.

• 19:46Speaker 04

  Is that a bad reaction to have to someone who's capable of beating himself?

• 19:48Speaker 03

  I think, I think he's quite good at street fighting, I reckon.

• 19:50Speaker 04

  That's what I'm saying. You're just playing that down.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  I'm not for it, not for it. I guess you've got to say that in case someone's watching the podcast. You can't be on a podcast being like, I'm fucking bang up for it as well, actually, so come, come have a go. If you see me in any street, come have a fucking go.

• 20:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, good. I've obviously put my UFC shorts on today.

• 20:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:08Speaker 04

  Um, and you usually wear the tight, tight, tighties.

• 20:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I do, actually, yeah.

• 20:12Speaker 04

  Um, Jake, you had a question about the shorts, didn't you?

• 20:15Speaker 03

  Do you wear pants under the shorts? Pants as in underwear? Underwear, under those shorts? Yeah, so you wear like your regular underwear.

• 20:23Speaker 04

  I knew it.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  And, well, you're not just gonna be commando, are you? Because that's gonna...

• 20:26Speaker 04

  Well, I don't know, I just thought, I thought that might give you an advantage.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  I mean, no, not with me.

• 20:32Speaker 04

  Well, a mate, a mate of mine I used to play with, he, on the game, on the day of a game, he would never wipe his arse when he'd have a poo.

• 20:40Speaker 03

  Right. Are you wearing like, like a cup, like a groin guard when you're playing rugby or not?

• 20:44Speaker 04

  No, do you wear, do you...

• 20:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what, yeah, you need to wear like underwear, and then you wear like a compression underwear that has a cup in it.

• 20:53Speaker 04

  In it?

• 20:53Speaker 03

  And then you shorts on top of that. Three layers.

• 20:57Speaker 04

  Have you ever had any malfunctions, like kit malfunction? But you've just described eight hundred layers covering up...

• 21:02Speaker 03

  In training. In training.

• 21:04Speaker 04

  What, your dick dangles in the dirt?

• 21:06Speaker 03

  No, but I've seen it happen. I've seen it happen.

• 21:08Speaker 04

  You've seen it happen?

• 21:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, seen it happen.

• 21:10Speaker 04

  Have you ever considered there was a rugby league player?

• 21:13Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 21:14Speaker 04

  Oh, fuck, I think it was Hopawati?

• 21:17Speaker 03

  Yep. John Hopawati.

• 21:19Speaker 04

  John Hopawati. There was a rugby league player, he got banned, actually a couple of times.

• 21:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, for the finger up the arse. Yeah, I know that one.

• 21:24Speaker 04

  Because he would tackle his opponent and finger their arse quite aggressively.

• 21:29Speaker 03

  That's actually, uh, a wrestling move, and do you know what it's called? An oil check.

• 21:36Speaker 04

  It is.

• 21:37Speaker 03

  I'm not joking. I'm not joking.

• 21:39Speaker 04

  What do you mean that's a wrestling move?

• 21:41Speaker 03

  It is. No, no.

• 21:42Speaker 04

  Which wrestling?

• 21:44Speaker 03

  Right, so if you was-

• 21:44Speaker 04

  Of the entertainment one or the legit wrestling?

• 21:47Speaker 03

  No, the legit, like Olympic wrestling. So if you was to go like, take me down.

• 21:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, which I could.

• 21:51Speaker 03

  You do, no you couldn't. But let's, you do what's called a sprawl.

• 21:55Speaker 04

  Which, yeah.

• 21:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:56Speaker 04

  Oh, fucking, sprawl!

• 21:57Speaker 03

  But then, you can do like the hand over the top. So like if I'm sprawl-

• 22:02Speaker 04

  Reach around?

• 22:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, so if I'm sprawling on someone, you can do like the hand over the top and that would be called an oil check. That's, that's the, but then obviously if you put the fingers up, that's uh even worse. And what, and the re- and the referee will be like, that's just an oil check, that's legit, that's fine. No. I mean, I think you'll get told off for that. Oh, right. I thought that was the legit thing, yeah.

• 22:23Speaker 04

  No, that bit's the oil check.

• 22:25Speaker 03

  The check bit is the bit that's, because you think oil check, you'd maybe like have a sniff afterwards or something, like just to check. Like, what are you checking? Wow!

• 22:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, so you, you don't, you don't oil check?

• 22:35Speaker 03

  Uh, not really.

• 22:36Speaker 04

  I mean-

• 22:36Speaker 03

  Not really? Not really.

• 22:39Speaker 03

  To make them losing.

• 22:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, that's what I mean.

• 22:44Speaker 04

  Now that we've got a better understanding of MMA, um, how did you actually get into it? You said you started when you were 10?

• 22:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, through my dad. My dad was a fighter himself.

• 22:55Speaker 04

  What, like a proper, like as an MMA?

• 22:58Speaker 03

  Yep, yep. And it went from there. It was a bit of a natural progression. I liked it when I figured out that people weren't doing a normal job and just fighting people for money. I thought, I want a bit of that.

• 23:10Speaker 04

  Did he see any signs in you? Like, were you quite an angry kid?

• 23:13Speaker 03

  No.

• 23:13Speaker 04

  Were you an aggressive kid? Nothing?

• 23:15Speaker 03

  No.

• 23:16Speaker 04

  So you've like developed that side of you?

• 23:18Speaker 03

  No, I'm not angry.

• 23:21Speaker 03

  Do you have to try and summon some sort of like- No. Anger when you're fighting or is it not about, it's more clinical than that? It's a sport. Yeah. I don't have to be angry.

• 23:32Speaker 04

  From an observational point of view?

• 23:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, people think that I'm gonna be dead angry, but I'm not.

• 23:35Speaker 04

  No, no, no, but from an observational point of view, you saying to me, "I'm not angry."

• 23:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:41Speaker 04

  "I'm not angry," and in the way you're saying it is incredibly menacing. And it's almost like you don't need anger-

• 23:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  -because you've got psychopathy.

• 23:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think you're looking into it too much. I think uh, yeah, overthinking it, I would say. Yeah. I think you're actually one of the most chilled people we've had on the show. Yeah, I don't. More chilled than Eddie Hall. Oh, Eddie Hall's a, he's an angry man. Yeah.

• 24:05Speaker 04

  I think I know the answer to this. Do you enjoy hurting someone?

• 24:08Speaker 03

  No.

• 24:10Speaker 04

  At all?

• 24:11Speaker 03

  No.

• 24:13Speaker 04

  It is literally as clinical as this is my job?

• 24:16Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 24:17Speaker 04

  It's not like a personal-

• 24:19Speaker 03

  Not at all. Not one bit.

• 24:22Speaker 04

  Do you enjoy getting hurt?

• 24:23Speaker 03

  No.

• 24:24Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 24:25Speaker 03

  Do you, uh, do you reckon there are fighters out there who do get a bit of a kick out of it? Yes. Really? Yeah, I'm not one of them. But there are, definitely.

• 24:32Speaker 04

  And do you see that as an advantage to you because it doesn't cloud?

• 24:35Speaker 03

  Um, I think the thing about MMA is that anybody can do it. It, it, it's not restrict, you know, maybe not him, maybe not him, but- I can't. Uh, maybe not you either, but the, I mean, I mean, people, people from all backgrounds and all walks of life can do it if they want to.

• 24:51Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  And the interesting thing is different people from different mindsets and backgrounds are able to do it. Sometimes it

• 25:01Speaker 03

  favors the angry person. Some fighters are extremely nerdy.

• 25:08Speaker 04

  Where would you sit on the scale?

• 25:09Speaker 03

  In the middle, I think. May- maybe more towards the nerdy side to be honest.

• 25:12Speaker 04

  Nerd.

• 25:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I think uh it's such a technical sport that you have to be like tuned into that as well. Like, you can't just be going in just to have a fight with somebody because it's not gonna end very well. You've gotta, you've gotta be somewhere, you know, towards the middle.

• 25:26Speaker 04

  I once read that you likened fighting-

• 25:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:32Speaker 04

  -to human chess.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 25:34Speaker 04

  But with dire consequences.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  I said that.

• 25:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:37Speaker 03

  Fucking hell, that's a good point.

• 25:38Speaker 04

  That's quite, that is quite a quote.

• 25:40Speaker 03

  Well, that's fucking a bad note, myself.

• 25:42Speaker 04

  Why are you so surprised by your own quote?

• 25:44Speaker 03

  I don't, because I don't remember saying it, but if you say that I said it, I'm gonna take credit for it.

• 25:46Speaker 04

  Well, it says that you said it.

• 25:47Speaker 03

  Right. If that says that I've said it and you say that-

• 25:50Speaker 04

  Human chess with dire consequences.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, oh, I love that. I've fucking done well there, haven't I? I've done great.

• 25:55Speaker 04

  What does that mean?

• 25:56Speaker 03

  There's a lot, there's a lot going on in MMA. To the untrained eye, it looks like two fellas punching and kicking each other.

• 26:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:02Speaker 03

  Which is, is. But there's a lot of strategy involved. There's a lot of different stuff, especially with the grappling aspect. It's very human chess-like. You gotta, sometimes you gotta set up a move, three moves before you're doing that one particular move. And the consequences are,

• 26:22Speaker 03

  if you're not on to the three moves before that, you're gonna get something broken or punched or elbowed or kicked off. Which is not great. So they're, they're the consequences.

• 26:32Speaker 04

  You are the current heavyweight UFC champion of the world.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 26:38Speaker 04

  What does that actually feel like? Like you're, you're the best in the world-

• 26:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, pretty good.

• 26:42Speaker 04

  -in your weight class.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  Pretty good. It's uh, it's not easy to be the best in the world at something. There's a lot of um good sports people, a lot of really famous good sports people. Uh, there's not many absolute bests in the worlds. So it's pretty good. But I've still got more to do in the sport, I feel. Still gotta do a bit more. Still gotta solidify myself as the best in the world, you know, do all that stuff.

• 27:05Speaker 04

  What does that look like? What does solidify in that? Like, what is-

• 27:08Speaker 03

  Uh, just me like-

• 27:09Speaker 04

  Retaining it once?

• 27:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, retaining it.

• 27:11Speaker 04

  Retaining it twice, like how like-

• 27:13Speaker 03

  I don't know. I don't know.

• 27:14Speaker 04

  You don't know?

• 27:14Speaker 03

  I never know.

• 27:15Speaker 04

  You'll know when you know.

• 27:16Speaker 03

  I take it one fight at a time.

• 27:17Speaker 04

  Do you actually feel like you're the best in the world?

• 27:19Speaker 03

  Skill for skill, yes, I do feel like I'm the best in the world, but I'm also aware it's MMA and uh, anything can happen. Fucking, imagine if you feel like you're the best in the world at something, in the entire world. I don't like to sit there and think about it all day, do you know what I mean? I would, I'd be, I wouldn't do anything else. No.

• 27:37Speaker 03

  Just thinking about that.

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• 29:12Speaker 04

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• 29:22Speaker 03

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• 29:36Speaker 04

  Plus, if you come unstuck at any point, Shopify's built-in AI assistant, Sidekick, is there to help you build, troubleshoot and keep you moving.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Joe, if you needed to build a website for your own online shop, what's it gonna be?

• 29:54Speaker 04

  Can I let you in on a little secret?

• 29:56Speaker 03

  I'd love that.

• 29:57Speaker 04

  I had Shopify set up uh, two years ago, set up my own Shopify shop.

• 30:04Speaker 03

  So what did you sell?

• 30:04Speaker 04

  Like all my old uh, like rugby gear. Shirts, signed shirts.

• 30:10Speaker 03

  So people, people now can go and find your memorabilia, buy it and it'll be signed and then-

• 30:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, all of my own Shopify shop and it was so easy to do. So I can, I can talk about this uh, situation quite naturally-

• 30:24Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 30:24Speaker 04

  -because I already do it. It's just there, ready to go, easy as pie, people look at it, there's your price, so it's so easy to set up. And at the start, I was like, how am I gonna do this? Maybe I'll just do a car boot.

• 30:34Speaker 03

  Whereas this, people can be accessing anytime, all the time and it's easy to set up. Uh, and by the way, thanks to Shopify Checkout, more customers actually buy and returning ones can do it in a single click.

• 30:46Speaker 04

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• 30:53Speaker 04

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• 31:02Speaker 04

  To me, Tom.

• 31:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:04Speaker 04

  And my love of MMA, but my love of you. You're, you're my goat.

• 31:10Speaker 03

  We thought we'd sort of ask you your thoughts on your goats outside of fighting. Okay. Um, I just wanna know your both, actually we'll get your opinions as well, Joe. For example, the goat, goat, the best regional accent. British regional accent.

• 31:24Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 31:25Speaker 03

  I like that. Eh, eh, eh, how you doing? Sure. Eh, fancy at home, eh, eh, eh, eh. That can't be the goat accent. That can't be the goat. It can't be the best we have to offer.

• 31:36Speaker 04

  All right, um. Here, here, here, Tom, where are you too?

• 31:41Speaker 03

  I quite like that one as well. West country.

• 31:44Speaker 04

  Here, Tom, you, you, are you fancy or what, mind?

• 31:47Speaker 03

  See them ones, you don't hear them too much where I'm from. And I quite like, they're good ones. I like them.

• 31:51Speaker 04

  You fancy or what? I'll give you a pint of dry cider if you want, or you want a bit of wet one?

• 31:55Speaker 03

  I like that one.

• 31:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, fizzy as fuck.

• 31:58Speaker 03

  Uh, goat meal deal. I don't, I don't have meal deals.

• 32:00Speaker 04

  No, you're a professional athlete.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  It's just a sandwich, innit? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not big on sandwiches.

• 32:06Speaker 04

  What?

• 32:07Speaker 03

  No, I don't really eat them.

• 32:07Speaker 04

  No, you're just lean protein.

• 32:10Speaker 03

  I just don't eat sandwiches. I'm not a big fan of bread.

• 32:12Speaker 04

  What do you, what?

• 32:13Speaker 03

  It's just not really my, yeah. Goat swear word. Fuck. Probably. Yeah, it's a classic. Good one. Um, goat submission hold.

• 32:21Speaker 04

  Oh, Crip lacrosse face.

• 32:23Speaker 03

  That's a good one.

• 32:25Speaker 04

  It works, actually.

• 32:26Speaker 03

  It does, it does work.

• 32:27Speaker 04

  Although it's quite hard to keep their hand in your legs.

• 32:30Speaker 03

  How'd you do that one, Joe? Well, come on.

• 32:34Speaker 03

  Well, I don't know if I wanna do this. Go on.

• 32:35Speaker 04

  I don't know, maybe Tom can.

• 32:37Speaker 03

  Tom, look. I don't really know. They are tight, them shorts, aren't they? They're fucking really tight.

• 32:41Speaker 04

  Don't worry about my shirt. Lie down. Oh, God. No, come back a bit.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  Oh, fucking hell.

• 32:46Speaker 04

  Oh, come back a bit. I need a bit of space.

• 32:47Speaker 03

  Oh, my God. You've been quite rough with me, this.

• 32:49Speaker 04

  Okay, give me your arm.

• 32:50Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 32:51Speaker 04

  Put it there. Don't chuck that. Oh, hang on. Move the bin. Ah. Is this right, Tom? It's quite, oh.

• 32:59Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 33:00Speaker 04

  Hang on. Ah.

• 33:01Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, that's, that's on.

• 33:03Speaker 04

  Right, do it. Tap out, you piece of shit.

• 33:04Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 33:05Speaker 04

  Fair enough.

• 33:05Speaker 03

  Wow. Oh, my God.

• 33:08Speaker 04

  Let's have an oil check whilst we're there.

• 33:14Speaker 04

  Every elite mindset has trade-offs. Like, in order to be the best of the best, there's like a trade-off, isn't there? Like, what's the biggest sacrifice that you have to make in order to be the best?

• 33:31Speaker 03

  I don't know. Give me an example.

• 33:34Speaker 04

  Well, I, my sacrifice was spending eight weeks, sometimes three months away from the family at a time.

• 33:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:42Speaker 04

  And also sacrificing my body being fucked later on down the line.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:49Speaker 04

  Um, all in the name of earning coin.

• 33:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:53Speaker 04

  To play a silly fucking sport.

• 33:55Speaker 03

  Well, I'd say pretty much, um, all athletes are in the same boat in that respect, aren't they? I think if you're a top-level athlete, your whole drive is your sport, really. Everything else comes secondary, even your own kids and misses.

• 34:11Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 34:11Speaker 03

  Comes secondary most of the time, which is sad. But it's the reality of it. Like you say, you're putting your, especially with contact sports, you're putting your health on the line, aren't you? Over and over and over and over and over. For the sake of some money, glory, and whatever, whatever else you're trying to get.

• 34:26Speaker 04

  But as long as my, well, my wife was always brilliant and sort of kids just came along with it. She was always in support of it all, and that always worked. And I'd often try and convince myself that I was doing it for them.

• 34:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, I do that. I do that all the time.

• 34:42Speaker 04

  In reality, we're not. We, or I wasn't.

• 34:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:47Speaker 04

  I was doing it for myself. I wanted to pursue trying to be the best that I could be.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:53Speaker 04

  Um, and then to make myself feel better and help with the guilt of abandoning them every time. I'd be like, oh, I'm doing it for you, you know?

• 35:01Speaker 03

  I think you're looking at it on the negative side of things because if you didn't try and fulfill that for yourself, then you wouldn't be a good dad, a good wife, a good husband and all that stuff. Because you'd feel unfulfilled because you wasn't giving it 100%, do you not think?

• 35:19Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, when you put it like that.

• 35:21Speaker 03

  So, you're not.

• 35:22Speaker 04

  If you're gonna be there, you give it your all.

• 35:24Speaker 03

  You're not directly doing it for them to have a good life and a good house and all that. But you're doing it for yourself, which will make you fulfilled to be a better dad and husband. Is that not right?

• 35:35Speaker 04

  Why does this happen, Jake? We get guests in and then they just fucking flip reverse it. Here you go, let's play Uno. There's a reverse card.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:43Speaker 04

  Show it in my face.

• 35:44Speaker 03

  I like Uno. Uno, no mercy. If you've played that.

• 35:46Speaker 04

  What?

• 35:46Speaker 03

  Uno, no mercy. It's a step up from Uno.

• 35:49Speaker 04

  See, I knew there was violence in you.

• 35:50Speaker 03

  No, no, it's not. It doesn't involve violence. I usually play it with kids that are under 10, which in my home, let me add. I'm not playing with those kids.

• 36:00Speaker 04

  You mentioned in your intake questionnaire, roughly, you wanted to go on till about 37.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:08Speaker 04

  And you have, you've mentioned it yourself a couple of times. You're like, it's not gonna go on forever.

• 36:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:13Speaker 04

  Does the prospect of it not going on forever

• 36:17Speaker 04

  and the amount that you've put into your sport in terms of your identity, does it scare you at all?

• 36:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 36:24Speaker 04

  That you go, right, I'm 37, 38, I've achieved all that, I've retained the belt a couple of times.

• 36:29Speaker 03

  That probably scares me more than anything else.

• 36:31Speaker 04

  When you reach that point.

• 36:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, because I just think it's just like who I am, what am I gonna do without it? That's what scares me more. Is like when I wake up and I've not got that,

• 36:41Speaker 03

  what the fuck do I do all day?

• 36:42Speaker 04

  Hmm. So that's essentially the trade-off as well, isn't it?

• 36:46Speaker 03

  That's the trade-off.

• 36:47Speaker 04

  You go, I'm committing 100% to being the best that I can be in this. And you commit all your time and energy to it. And then when it's over, at whatever point it comes over, you're like, ah.

• 36:59Speaker 03

  What the fuck do I do now?

• 37:00Speaker 04

  Hang on, maybe I should have worked on trying to work out who I was as well as.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  Well, I'm trying to do that along the way as well, but.

• 37:07Speaker 04

  What I do.

• 37:08Speaker 03

  It's, uh, MMA takes up a lot of my time, so. Yeah, scary. Scary stuff. How did you deal with that change, Joe?

• 37:16Speaker 04

  Oh, fuck no. Oh, no, don't ask me.

• 37:19Speaker 03

  Really?

• 37:20Speaker 04

  No, I can't, I can't offer any advice on that.

• 37:22Speaker 03

  But you did, you did Traitors. Do you, would you recommend Traitors, doing that?

• 37:26Speaker 04

  Would I recommend doing it?

• 37:27Speaker 03

  You did Traitors when you were retired though, didn't you?

• 37:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:30Speaker 03

  So you started doing more like TV shit when you retired?

• 37:32Speaker 04

  I sort of had, uh, that was like a decision I had to make. It was like, I was still in contract.

• 37:37Speaker 03

  Oh, you were still in contract?

• 37:38Speaker 04

  Got offered to go and do the Traitors. And I was sort of, had to decide, shall I see out my contract and say no to that? Or shall I finish halfway through the season?

• 37:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 37:46Speaker 04

  And go and do that.

• 37:47Speaker 03

  So when you, when you say I'm retired, your contract's done, straight away, is it?

• 37:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:52Speaker 03

  Right. Got it.

• 37:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's done and dusted.

• 37:55Speaker 03

  Right. Um. So you're a free man?

• 37:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I've, I'm still struggling with that as well. I'm 18 months post-retirement. And what you've just said of the whole identity thing is, I, I thought I was all right for the first few months because it was like a long off-season or a long outside your training camp, whatever, you're just chilling. And then you go, what am I doing? What am I chasing? What, what is my purpose? What is my goal that I'm, that for the last 17 years I've been going week to week, month to month, that's what I'm chasing?

• 38:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:32Speaker 04

  And then you go, oh, now what?

• 38:35Speaker 03

  Must be tough. I don't know. I'm scared.

• 38:37Speaker 04

  I think you'll be fine. I think the way you're going about it now and trying to broaden.

• 38:45Speaker 03

  Trying.

• 38:46Speaker 04

  Your experiences.

• 38:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:47Speaker 04

  And putting yourself in really uncomfortable situations and rooms, um, with pseudo-psychologists and his trusted assistants. Um, as well as getting yourself out there more and showing people more about you, like your YouTube channel and doing your podcast. Tell us even more about the inner game that you mentioned at the top.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  The inner game? Flying. Absolutely flying.

• 39:10Speaker 04

  And you get like, big, successful people on there.

• 39:14Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 39:14Speaker 04

  And you rummage around in their brains about what made them successful.

• 39:18Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 39:19Speaker 04

  And what traits they have. Sorry, are you, are you, have you just copied this show? And you've made it sound better and you've put it in a better format?

• 39:29Speaker 03

  Who's your Indian assistant? No, it's, it's like.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  I'll find him.

• 39:34Speaker 04

  Honestly, the format does not work without. What did you say? An Indian assistant?

• 39:41Speaker 04

  That is mental.

• 39:43Speaker 03

  Sure. No, but it is similar. It's similar to the show, just slightly better. Not significantly better.

• 39:49Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 39:50Speaker 03

  Signifi, you know, this is, uh, it's good. We had a lot of good guests on, which has been good. I actually have learned a lot from talking to people. Because predominantly I speak to other cage fighters.

• 40:01Speaker 04

  And it's just, you're all of the same sort of.

• 40:03Speaker 03

  The same shit. It's the same shit. We talk about the same stuff. And it was nice to speak to people outside of that and learn about their story and stuff like that.

• 40:11Speaker 04

  What is the biggest thing you've learned from all the people you've spoken to on your podcast?

• 40:17Speaker 03

  So,

• 40:20Speaker 03

  as I said, the podcast is away from MMA. Not, not a lot of cage fighting talk, surprisingly.

• 40:25Speaker 04

  No.

• 40:26Speaker 03

  All these successful people have a similar mindset in all different fields. And, um, I think that, I feel like I suffered a lot, or still do, from like imposter syndrome. And actually talking to other people, that's a very common thing I learned. And just like people pushing through their anxiety and not feeling like they, they can do it and then winging it and being able to do it, I think that's something that, that was like across the board, to be honest, in all, all the episodes. And it was good to hear that for everybody.

• 41:01Speaker 04

  What do you think you'll miss about being a fighter?

• 41:08Speaker 04

  What's the thing you love the most doing it now?

• 41:11Speaker 03

  Oh, I like a lot of stuff.

• 41:16Speaker 03

  I like having a goal and something to work towards. And when you're fighting, the fear of what might happen to you in the fight gives you unbelievable amount of drive every day. Because like if I'm not showing up every day a hundred percent in the gym and outside the gym, the probability of me getting beat up in front of millions of people is way higher. So when I get up in the morning, it doesn't matter how tired I am, what I feel like, whatever's going on, I know that I have to go to the gym twice a day and fucking give it some, like send it fully in that day. And because I know that in eight weeks or whatever, I'm going to fight somebody in front of millions of people. And if I don't fully go for it every day, I'm going to end up getting beat up really badly.

• 42:02Speaker 03

  So that gives me a massive drive every day. So without that, I think I'd be struggling.

• 42:07Speaker 04

  You touched on a, you just briefly said about OCD when you moved my thing earlier.

• 42:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:13Speaker 04

  Do you think that's a big driver in you that you go, you have to tick all those boxes?

• 42:18Speaker 03

  Why are you winking on my OCD? I thought...

• 42:21Speaker 04

  Didn't pick on it.

• 42:21Speaker 03

  You're supposed to make light of it, like big it up.

• 42:24Speaker 04

  I didn't pick on it. I just observed it. But do you think that helps you?

• 42:27Speaker 03

  Yes, a hundred percent.

• 42:28Speaker 04

  Tick all those boxes and then you go into a fight having gone, there's been no stone unturned here. And if I get beat, it's because, it's not because I haven't done enough to prepare, it's because either a technicality, a mistake you make on the day, or there's a better fighter out there.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  I do on one hand, but the opposite was proved to me massively. Do you want to hear a story?

• 42:56Speaker 04

  Definitely.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  When I won in Madison Square Garden against a Russian fellow, big scary gentleman called Sergey Pavlovich. He was 16 and 1, as his record, with 16 knockouts, right?

• 43:12Speaker 04

  Decent, half decent fighter.

• 43:15Speaker 03

  Very good, very big scary man. And at the time, when he called me for the fight, I was fresh off a stag do.

• 43:24Speaker 03

  And I was fat, I was out of shape. I'd been, I was, I had a fight like six weeks before then, so I'd been in shape. But then for that six weeks, I was coming down from a fight, so I was, you know, partying. I was not living like an athlete. And they called me up for a heavyweight title fight because his opponent pulled out. And I'd done none of what I usually do. And then I thought, fuck it, it's my only opportunity. I'm going to have to do it. I'm going to have to do it. And I turned up and I had the best performance that I think I've ever done in my whole career.

• 43:57Speaker 04

  And at no point have you gone, well, why don't you just do it like that again?

• 44:02Speaker 03

  Usually my wife says, why don't you do it like that?

• 44:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:07Speaker 03

  And then I think, that's a good point, but my OCD can't let it.

• 44:11Speaker 04

  Just kicks in.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, it just kicks in. It just takes over.

• 44:14Speaker 04

  Also, I don't think you live a, if you, every time you had a fight organized, you go, right, who's stag do is it this time?

• 44:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was, yeah.

• 44:21Speaker 04

  Right, come on, let someone put on a stag. Right, I need to go fight.

• 44:25Speaker 03

  I have to tick every single box. And there were no boxes ticked. And I probably did my, because I was super relaxed. I felt like it was a win-win. Because if I would have lost, everyone was expecting me to lose anyway.

• 44:36Speaker 04

  I can relate, I can relate to that. Sometimes when I'd arrived to a game really late because the M25 had been fucking murder, I'd miss a warm-up and the adrenaline, I'd be like there five minutes before kickoff, run out, plod out, and play some of my best rugby.

• 44:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's weird. I don't know.

• 44:52Speaker 04

  Or half-cut, I've been out the night before, I've got a hangover, I'm still pretty fucking steaming. Because you don't, you're just so relaxed.

• 44:59Speaker 03

  That's right. I was like, I was just like, oh, fuck it, everyone thinks I'm going to lose anyway. Let's just go and see what happens.

• 45:03Speaker 04

  Sure. So it's as much in the...

• 45:04Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 45:05Speaker 04

  In the brain as it is in the body?

• 45:08Speaker 03

  It's got to be.

• 45:12Speaker 04

  With this view to adapting after your fighting career, I want to put your ability to adapt into practice with this one final exercise. We've talked a lot about what fighting means to you, and you described it as human chess earlier, didn't you?

• 45:31Speaker 03

  Far, far not.

• 45:32Speaker 04

  With that in mind, the final exercise, it will not be a game of chess. But instead, we will be playing something with far higher stakes. It is of course, Twister! Jake will be in control of the board and I'll be trying to do the impossible. Go one-on-one against the UFC champion on the mat and win. You see what we've done there? It will be like a mat. You know how we were going to roll on the mat?

• 46:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I know, yeah.

• 46:02Speaker 04

  But it's a different mat.

• 46:04Speaker 03

  I got it.

• 46:05Speaker 04

  And I'll fucking do you on it.

• 46:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, you won't. Maybe a twister, but not, yeah.

• 46:09Speaker 04

  Well, we'll see.

• 46:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, all right.

• 46:12Speaker 04

  What have you been, all right?

• 46:14Speaker 03

  All right.

• 46:14Speaker 04

  All right?

• 46:15Speaker 03

  Just show me.

• 46:22Speaker 03

  So the gloves are off, the tweed's certainly off.

• 46:25Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, mate, I couldn't move in that.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's fair enough.

• 46:29Speaker 04

  Is this all right? Is this all right?

• 46:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, you both look great.

• 46:31Speaker 04

  Do I still look like a psych? Do I still look?

• 46:35Speaker 03

  Uh, not really, no. You sort of look like, um...

• 46:38Speaker 04

  So the illusion's gone, is it?

• 46:40Speaker 03

  You look like a sort of member of the village people, sort of off-duty.

• 46:45Speaker 04

  These are tight, aren't they?

• 46:46Speaker 03

  I have been told that the winner, this is very exciting, will be taking this home. What the heck?

• 46:55Speaker 03

  I can't even lift it up!

• 46:57Speaker 04

  That is ridiculous. That belt in your hands is wild.

• 47:02Speaker 03

  I can't, that, I just, I'm going to need a photo of that, but yes. Okay, so, nice clean game. I'll spin, you place your limb. That's it, that's as easy as that. Joe Marler, are you ready?

• 47:13Speaker 04

  Hey, it's not about whether I'm ready or not.

• 47:16Speaker 03

  Tom Aspino, are you ready?

• 47:17Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 47:18Speaker 03

  Now, from what I've learned, the higher ranked player will go second. So Joe, I'm going to let you, because obviously because he's the champion of the world and stuff, that's sort of the highest rank, isn't it?

• 47:28Speaker 04

  Oh, that counts, does it?

• 47:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, it counts for something. So Joe, you're going to have your first move and right foot yellow.

• 47:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:36Speaker 03

  Tom, you're in.

• 47:37Speaker 04

  That's your left foot?

• 47:39Speaker 03

  That's your left foot.

• 47:42Speaker 03

  Tom, you're in. We've also got a right foot yellow.

• 47:46Speaker 03

  Joe, this is where things get interesting. Left hand, blue.

• 47:54Speaker 03

  Tom, I've been given a left foot yellow.

• 47:58Speaker 03

  Okay. Joe?

• 47:59Speaker 04

  Yeah?

• 48:00Speaker 03

  Your next move is right foot yellow. You're there, you're there already.

• 48:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm already there.

• 48:04Speaker 03

  Tom, you're now right hand green.

• 48:08Speaker 03

  Joe?

• 48:08Speaker 04

  Why is he not...

• 48:09Speaker 03

  Your next move is right hand green.

• 48:13Speaker 04

  Why is he not grieving heavy?

• 48:15Speaker 03

  Why?

• 48:16Speaker 04

  Oh, no, he's up, he's lost. Look, I'm not, I haven't lost. You thought, oh, no. My left foot was never meant to be on the game. Hurry up.

• 48:23Speaker 03

  You go right foot red.

• 48:25Speaker 04

  Who?

• 48:26Speaker 03

  Joe, you now go left foot red.

• 48:30Speaker 04

  Eat shit. Come on, Joe, come on. Shut up, Tom. Breathe into it, breathe.

• 48:35Speaker 03

  Please don't lose any of the other footings.

• 48:37Speaker 04

  Oh!

• 48:37Speaker 03

  Whoa!

• 48:40Speaker 03

  He's taken a tumble! The reigning champion, Tom Aspino! This is for you, so. Oh, thanks, mate. You take that. I'll take it. Look at that, look at that. Unbelievable stuff.

• 48:52Speaker 04

  I've got to put my hands out.

• 48:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I saw one.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  Remember the badge?

• 49:01Speaker 04

  It's a badge. It's if he hasn't taken enough from me.

• 49:07Speaker 04

  Dignity.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  Badge for me.

• 49:09Speaker 04

  Pride.

• 49:10Speaker 03

  Thanks, Joe. Come on.

• 49:12Speaker 04

  Tom, champion of the world?

• 49:14Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 49:15Speaker 04

  Thank you for coming in today.

• 49:16Speaker 03

  No problem.

• 49:17Speaker 04

  With every client, we give them a badge so they can remember the arc that they've been on in today's session. We've gone with undisputed twister champion.

• 49:27Speaker 03

  Thank you, thank you. I'll take it. Thank you.

• 49:32Speaker 04

  We also usually offer a lollipop, but you are a lean, mean fighting machine, so you're not fucking getting one.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  Are you all right with that?

• 49:39Speaker 04

  I think I'm going to have to get checked out.

• 49:41Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 49:41Speaker 04

  Have you got a doctor with you?

• 49:42Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, he's in there.

• 49:46Speaker 04

  Tom Aspino, everybody!

• 49:51Speaker 03

  Thanks. Solid, solid.

• 49:55Speaker 04

  Janet will see you out.

• 49:56Speaker 03

  Right. Thanks, Janet.

• 49:57Speaker 04

  Tom Aspino, everybody!

• 50:00Speaker 04

  If you would like to join the doctor's waiting list, then please subscribe to our YouTube channel or follow us on Instagram, at We'll See You Now Show. Remember, unless it's not clear enough already, I'm not a real doctor. If you need any professional help, there's a link to great support services on our Instagram. I've been Joe Marler and this has been Joe Marler Will See You Now and I'll see you next time. Bye-bye.

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