Beating The Beatles To A BAFTA

This Week Joe Thomas and James Buckley talk about being on set with Ringo Starr, which celebs would be the best to go for a pint with and are posed with a 'Would You Rather' that will make you cross your legs... Plus this week the Fact Boys explore whether 'Breaking the seal' is really a thing. GET IN TOUCH: Whatsapp us - wa.me/447822034330 Fill in our Fact Up Form - https://forms.gle/uzF6XWPqaA5aNTtN7 Subscribe on Youtube - www.youtube.com/@JoeandJamesPod/videos Follow us on Instagram - www.instagram.com/joeandjamespod Follow us on TikTok - www.tiktok.com/@joeandjamespod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hey, it's Adam Grant from TED's Rethinking Podcast. As businesses scale, success depends on how well knowledge is captured, shared, and kept up to date. Camtasia Pro turns teams' expertise into engaging training, onboarding, and documentation. No professional editing experience required. With the industry's best screen recording, video editing, and AI-powered workflows, you can train faster and boost operational efficiency. Get over $100 off your first year at camtasia pro.com and start building a smarter way to educate customers, onboard employees, and ensure valuable expertise is shared across teams.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Confidence. It's listening to your gut. It's moving forward even when the path ahead is unclear. For nearly 160 years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises, building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future or just beginning to envision it, we're here to help. Ask a financial professional how. Pacific Life, the power of a promise. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska, and in New York. Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Ramsey's on my list of people that I'd love to have a pint with.

• 1:15Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 1:15Speaker 02

  You've got a little list. Maybe we can talk about that next episode or something.

• 1:18Speaker 03

  A list? Who have I got a list?

• 1:19Speaker 02

  I've got a little list of people who I'd be like, well up for a pint with. I think Ramsey would be a good.

• 1:25Speaker 03

  All my people, I feel like they're all too...

• 1:29Speaker 03

  I'd say maybe this is irrelevant, but I think they're too busy to do it.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think Ramsey's gonna go for a pint with me.

• 1:35Speaker 03

  I think he might do. I hope Ramsey goes for a pint with you.

• 1:39Speaker 02

  No, but the thing is, I reckon, well, yeah, like you say, like, so that comes into my...

• 1:43Speaker 03

  Bring him up and go, "Oi Ramsey, let's have a, oh, in pint."

• 1:47Speaker 02

  But that comes...

• 1:47Speaker 03

  And then they'll do it.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  That comes into my, um, sort of, uh, the rules that I have for people that I'd like to go for a pint with.

• 1:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  I think he'd be up for a pint. Ramses type of guy, I think he'd have a pint and then he'd fucking do a twenty mile bike ride or something like that. Do you know what I mean? He just seems like a geezer.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  I mean, Gervais, it feels like he'd both be up for a pint and.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  I don't know, I feel like Gervais now.

• 2:14Speaker 03

  Is he a bit less of a?

• 2:16Speaker 02

  I think he's a, you know, he's in his sixties, isn't he? So I think he might be a bit more health conscious now, maybe. If we're talking back in the XFM days.

• 2:27Speaker 03

  That's really what I'm.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Like, you know, that's the Gervais you want to go for a pint with. That's the like, yeah, this is good. And Pilco's got to be there as well.

• 2:37Speaker 03

  That would be so. There's oftentimes where he just sounds, there's things on that show where he just sounds drunk on the show. Or he's just eating.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, there's a lot of stuff, and then we just.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  And then Merchant has to go. I think he literally goes, answers on a postcard, whatever.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  Ricky Gervais said just then.

• 3:03Speaker 02

  Who would you, who would you really want to go for a pint with? Dave Grohl was another one for me. That'd be fascinating. Again, one, because I think he'd be a laugh and be a good, be a good chap to have, to have a pint with. But two, also you can get into all the interesting stuff. You can ask him about Nirvana and, and, you know.

• 3:21Speaker 03

  Who would I like to go for a?

• 3:22Speaker 02

  What was that like being in Nirvana?

• 3:25Speaker 02

  That's why I'd never be able to meet these people. I couldn't meet Paul McCartney. Because I'd be like, I mean, I met Ringo Starr.

• 3:34Speaker 03

  Did you?

• 3:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. I met Ringo Starr. And, and it literally was, uh, I basically went to him and went, what was that like? I li- like, without so many words.

• 3:46Speaker 03

  I don't know, really, yeah, what, what could you, he, that seems like.

• 3:52Speaker 03

  It almost belongs to another.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  He was in a film that I was doing.

• 3:57Speaker 03

  Was he?

• 3:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I wasn't in that day. And, um, the, the director told me, he was like, oh, by the way, we managed to get Ringo Starr to come in and do a cameo. I was like, what day is it?

• 4:11Speaker 02

  He was, oh, it was this day. I was, oh, fucking hell, I'm not in that day. Or I might have been in later or something like that. And, uh, and I was like, I'm turning it up.

• 4:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  I'm turning it up. I wanna go, I'm just gonna sit around and watch Ringo Starr, like, do whatever he is, he did, does. And this was while, this was in California. And, um, I think the director, cause obviously my kids are called Harrison and Jude, and I think it was, I, I think just wherever I go, it just becomes a fact, known thing that Buckley likes the Beatles, right?

• 4:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  Uh, I must bang on about them or something. But I think he went up to Ringo Starr and was like, oh, James is here and he's British. I think that's all he said, right? Because, um, at one point, and I'd never, I, I, I just wanted to be in the same room as him. I, I didn't, I didn't approach him or anything like that. And, uh, at one point it was like, right, let's take five, let's have a five minute break and then we'll get back into it. And then he just walked up to me and just went, how's it going, brother?

• 5:06Speaker 03

  Haha.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  I went, quite, it's good, thank you, Ringo Starr, really good. And then I was just sort of, um.

• 5:12Speaker 03

  Good Mr. Starr.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  And then, uh, I said, oh, listen, um, I was like, my, my kids, my kids' names are Harrison and Jude, like, I'm such a huge fan. And he was just well up for chatting about it. And he was just, and it's, and I do, it's not the same extent, obviously. I'm not gonna compare the Inbetweeners to the, to the Beatles by any measure at all, so.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  They, how many, did they do just, did they do one film or did they, how many films did they do?

• 5:36Speaker 02

  I think they did five.

• 5:38Speaker 03

  They did even do more films?

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, I think they did about five of them. Um, but.

• 5:43Speaker 03

  But did they do, how many episodes did they?

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Did, no TV, no TV, no.

• 5:47Speaker 03

  Didn't do any TV?

• 5:48Speaker 02

  They didn't do any TV stuff. Um.

• 5:50Speaker 03

  No TV at all?

• 5:51Speaker 02

  But I don't mind, um.

• 5:52Speaker 03

  Cause we got a.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  I don't mind talking about.

• 5:54Speaker 03

  People's after, not, not.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  No, it wasn't a proper one, was it? We don't, um, we don't, uh, I don't mind talking to the Inbetweeners, like, you know, when you must have. I had this, when you're doing, when you, say you've got a new film coming out.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  And you're doing a bit of press, uh, so you're going, doing a bit of radio or something like, you go to Global or whatever, and you do like the breakfast shows and, and they always go, do you mind if I maybe talk about the, like, ask you about the in-betweeners or something?

• 6:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, they do, they always say that.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  And I always go, yeah, of course, like.

• 6:27Speaker 03

  I'm always like, what the hell, fuck else have I got to talk about?

• 6:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I don't know.

• 6:32Speaker 02

  If you don't, if you don't bring it up, I'm gonna fucking bring it up.

• 6:34Speaker 03

  I know, I wanna say, well, I think we better, because what else do you wanna talk about? Like, I can't, I want nothing else to contribute.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  I think people are like, and there has been, there have been actors in the past who were like, please, I don't wanna talk about that, I wanna move on.

• 6:45Speaker 03

  I always just find that really obvious when people are trying to kind of segue round.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  But, um.

• 6:50Speaker 03

  It just draws more attention to it.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  But I was a bit like, fucking, the last thing this geezer wants to talk about is the Beatles probably, but he absolutely loved it. And he summed it up to me, and it's the same way I feel about the, about the in-betweeners in a way, um, obviously not as much, but the in-betweeners were such a great time in my life, which is why I don't mind talking about it, and I'm still proud of it, I still.

• 7:11Speaker 03

  I feel exactly the same.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  I still think it's really funny, um, but he said to me, uh, cause I was like, oh god, I bet, I'm sorry, I was like, uh, uh, there was a bit where I was like, I bet, I bet you don't wanna talk about the Beatles, do you? Like, I imagine it's a bit annoying, I can, cause I, I didn't wanna go, I didn't wanna go, cause you know, people also wanna talk to me about one thing also, so like, uh, and he was, he was just like, listen, I was, uh, I was in my twenties, I was in the biggest band in the world, I travelled the world, girls absolutely loved me, it was fucking amazing. It was absolutely amazing. And he was just like, I don't mind talking about it, don't mind talking about it at all whatsoever. And I was just asking loads of questions, like loads of stuff about,

• 7:56Speaker 02

  like, just, just, oh, yeah, you know, when this, when you were, uh, recording this and I, I've heard this room and he was like, no, that's not true, like, uh, pretty much everything wasn't true. Like, everything was like lore.

• 8:06Speaker 03

  Well, as we've established on this podcast, like, many of these.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  But it was interesting.

• 8:10Speaker 03

  Things turn out not to be true.

• 8:11Speaker 02

  But it was interesting enough to be fact, Joe.

• 8:14Speaker 03

  What it's, what exactly? Maybe we should do some Ringo Starr.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  Which, which does bring me around to this podcast, which is called Joe and James Fact Up.

• 8:22Speaker 03

  Joe and James.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  Joe and James.

• 8:24Speaker 03

  Ah, Joe and James.

• 8:27Speaker 03

  Joe and James.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Fact up again. Joe and James, Joe and James, Joe and James, Joe and James, Fact Up.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Welcome. Each week on this podcast, we bring one another a fact that we deem interesting. And our policy is the more interesting, the more true it is. We'll also dig into the weird things that you'd like to think are true, but don't want to research in a segment we call fact check. So if you want to send us your facts, our email is hello at joeandjamespod.com. Our WhatsApp is 07822034330. And you can also follow us on socials. Our handle, did the kids say handle still? Is that all right?

• 9:09Speaker 03

  Do they say like, I think, do they say like six, seven?

• 9:13Speaker 02

  They do. I don't know what it means. Our socials are at joeandjamespod. And you can DM us on that. And you can watch all our episodes full on YouTube. Just search for Joe and James Fact Up. Now, let's get fact up.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  I just, I have such a bad memory of with this podcast and with the podcast to do with Claire, like remembering what the fuck I spoke about. So just talk, I just talk so much shit.

• 9:49Speaker 03

  But we talk so much.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  I just, I just, it's just a stream of consciousness. And I just talk absolute nonsense. And I also forget that people end up listening to this.

• 10:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. No, when I, when we, when we.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  There was a whole thing I did. So there was a whole thing I did with Claire, where I did a rant about Andrew Flintoff's nickname, who by the way, is a hero of mine. Like fucking, when was it? 2000?

• 10:16Speaker 03

  2005.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  2005.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  I think it was 2005.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  2006? Was it 2005?

• 10:21Speaker 03

  That Ashes series victory was 2005.

• 10:24Speaker 02

  Him, Kevin Peterson. Oh, fuck, it was absolutely amazing. Me and my mates were playing cricket in our little terrace houses.

• 10:30Speaker 03

  I was playing cricket as well.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  Back gardens.

• 10:32Speaker 03

  I was playing cricket.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  We had to come up with rules because they were like, they were like this small, these back garden.

• 10:38Speaker 03

  What's the boundary?

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Well, we were, we had to think, we had to do a thing where if it.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  If he went forward enough and went past this mark, then that was counted as two runs.

• 10:48Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 10:48Speaker 02

  It would just hit off the fence. There was no way that anyone was gonna get. But if it went like a bit wide or whatever, that's that's no run. Like that's that's just.

• 10:56Speaker 03

  Okay, so you you were encouraging, you were encouraging playing kind of more cultured shots.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, but Andrew Flynn, I love him. I absolutely love it. He's another one. He'd be on my list. He'd be on my list to go for a beer with. Again, don't know if he'd go for a beer these days because he's all sort of um like health conscious. Um, but back in the day, I mean, he's a proper bloke, isn't he? I mean, he fucking.

• 11:20Speaker 03

  Well, there was good on the celebration.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  Crash that would have killed nine men out of ten and he's just, and he's still knocking about.

• 11:27Speaker 03

  Because Beefy will go. That's what I think your selection policy.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 03

  Yes, I've had the odd copper. Yes, I've enjoyed the old do.

• 11:34Speaker 02

  Do.

• 11:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  But yeah, he's a legend. He's a fucking legend. And I don't care what you guys say.

• 11:40Speaker 03

  Presumably Freddie Flintoff is from Fred Flintstone.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  That's it. But the only problem I had with that nickname was I felt it was too much of a reach. Because one, he's not called Freddie Flintstone.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  No.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  He's called Fred Flintstone. And apart from Flint.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  That nickname doesn't go very far.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's really very little.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  I wasn't having a go at Andrew. I wouldn't, I wouldn't fucking, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I've got a feeling I might not, I don't fancy my chances against Andrew Flynn.

• 12:12Speaker 03

  No, I.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  He's literally, he's literally the fucking Terminator these days. Like, you can't kill the geezer. He's as tough as nails and he's brilliant and he's amazing. Um, but.

• 12:23Speaker 03

  But yeah, I agree that it's it's a bit of a reach that.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  So I I was whinging about this nickname, saying how it annoys me, how it's such a reach. That got clipped up and we put it out on the social. And then he commented saying, you can call me whatever you like, right? And I was like, oh, fucking hell, I forgot that, like, I just talk shit. I just talk nonsense when I do like podcasts.

• 12:44Speaker 03

  Hard to remember everything that we talk about because we do do quite a lot.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  I can't remember anything. Like, I instantly forget as soon as we, as soon as we leave this room.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  Well, I don't really remember what I've said over the course of a day. And really, this is just what I would be saying if I wasn't in here.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  That's fair enough.

• 12:58Speaker 03

  And, you know, it's like my point about, you know, Ram versus Rom.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  Sure, I forgot you'd said that.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  It goes into a hard drive. The hard drive's put on the shelf or something. And then if people want to know what it's in there, you're like, well, I'll have a look. I can't remember what was in a Word document I made.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Well, this is my point. Everything's been documented right now. Everything that I'm saying right now has been documented. If I need to remember it, I'll listen to the podcast.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  It's not really your job to remember it. It's the job of the.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  It is when we start doing callbacks and we start talking about WhatsApp mishaps.

• 13:27Speaker 03

  We should do any more callbacks. I don't think we should even repeat words.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  Also, I don't like reading the word mishaps.

• 13:33Speaker 03

  I saw that as well. It's like mashups or something.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, it doesn't work for my brain.

• 13:38Speaker 03

  And now I'm saying like whatshap. Whatshap mishaps.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Mishaps. Anyway, Willish and.

• 13:43Speaker 03

  So that's confusing to us. So can we have a look? I don't know what we're supposed to do.

• 13:46Speaker 02

  Willish and shite hawk.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Uh, via the WhatsApp.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  I believe have left us a voice note. Is that right? That's right.

• 13:58Speaker 04

  Hello there, JT and JB. It's Willish here with his, uh, got my mate Shite Hawk here with me.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  That's, that really is their names.

• 14:05Speaker 04

  Having a chat. So this is a bit more of a question than a, well, it's not a fact at all. It's a question. Would you rather be hitting the, in the testicles? Little Bosch on the plums twice every day. But you know when it's going to be roughly. You've got a time as a schedule or punched only once, but you don't know when it's going to be. Could be stressful. We want to hear your thoughts.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  What, what?

• 14:37Speaker 02

  Good question.

• 14:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Good question. Thank you very much, Willish.

• 14:40Speaker 03

  They haven't, they haven't, they haven't sort of gone massive with it, have they? It's all quite, it's quite restrained.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Listen, that's a, you could, you get fucking, that's the whole evening down the pub.

• 14:50Speaker 03

  I thought about that.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Willish and Shite Hawk. Thank you very much. Could have, could have helped us out. Like we got, if you do want to get back in touch. Where Shite Hawk has come from. I'd, I'd be interested to know.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  Shite Hawk is really good and Willish in a way.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  But.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  Is it that he's a little bit like Will? A Will, Will from Inbetweeners.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Willish.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  Does he look a bit like Will, Willish?

• 15:14Speaker 02

  No, I think that's the second name. I think they've gone root one with that one.

• 15:17Speaker 03

  Shite Hawk would be the second name.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  No, Shite Hawk's not a name.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  No, Shite Hawk's not a name, is it? No.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Shite Hawk's got a story behind it and I wanna know what it is.

• 15:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  And I'll be honest with you.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  Who's been kicked out of the RAF? Shite Hawk. Why? You don't wanna know?

• 15:32Speaker 02

  The, the more rubbish it is, the more entertaining I'd find that.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  I do like it.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  Um, that's an easy one for me, once not knowing.

• 15:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  I don't wanna know what I'm gonna get kicked in the bollocks. Here's a little fact for you.

• 15:47Speaker 03

  I think it was hit.

• 15:49Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, punched in the bollocks, whatever. Here's a little fact for you. Um, it wasn't until like the 1970s. Um, that the NHL made it a rule that you have to wear a helmet. Hockey's like incredibly dangerous, like, like it's so dangerous.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  I was watching some today on the Winter Olympics and.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  I was watching Canada last.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  There's not enough bloody room. Like, you're like, there's no, the, the pitch looks like it.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  There's only five outfield players that are outfield. I'm always like talking.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  I'm always amazed that they're able to get in any space at all. It just looks like.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  It's frantic. Yeah. It's like, it's, you don't get any, it's quick. It's a really quick game. You don't, you don't get any time to think.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  You've got to just, it's, it is just, someone's on you straight away.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  But it's incredibly dangerous. There's literally blades. Everyone has a couple of blades on them.

• 16:42Speaker 03

  It's so dangerous.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Every single player.

• 16:44Speaker 03

  I mean, they're constantly like bashing into each other.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:47Speaker 03

  And that's the least dangerous part about it.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's fine.

• 16:51Speaker 03

  I mean, yeah.

• 16:51Speaker 02

  They get, that's just, that's, that, that happens a hundred times.

• 16:55Speaker 03

  I know.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  The period.

• 16:56Speaker 03

  Please hit me with your shoulder rather than with the bottom of your foot that's got fucking guillotine on it.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  But, um. It wasn't until like, I, I, I think it was the late seventies that they brought, the, the, the NHL were like, might have everyone wear a helmet, actually, just, just, just to protect the old coconut there. Yeah. However, uh, I think it was the twenties where they brought in a cup.

• 17:24Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  And I think that's all you need to know about men, right?

• 17:29Speaker 03

  Oh, I see, yeah, yeah.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  We'd rather get hit in the head.

• 17:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  We'd rather have blunt force trauma to the skull, to the cranium, than get a swift kick to the bollocks. Listen, I don't want to be punched in the bollocks twice, and I sort of don't wanna know when it's coming, if I am gonna be punched in the bollocks. So, one, one, when I don't know when it's happening. Well, what do we get for that, though? Do we get something?

• 17:54Speaker 05

  What do you mean, do you get something?

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Why are we getting punched in the bollocks? Isn't there, isn't there some sort of reward?

• 18:01Speaker 05

  I think it's a this or that, you choose.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  What would you rock? Like, that's the only choi- like, we don't get a million pounds or something. You get a million pounds, but you either have to-

• 18:09Speaker 03

  No, you know, you ju- you just have, you have to have one of these two things. No, it's, it's lose, lose, but, but, um.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  We don't get anything for it.

• 18:16Speaker 03

  I know, I don't think he mentioned that we get anything, but, but, but it's just that we have, well, no. Well, what we get is that, that they'll stop asking the question. But if we don't, but if we don't answer, they'll keep asking every day.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Um, I'm going for one.

• 18:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  One with, one with, what, cause one I don't want, that sounds perfect to me. If it's, if it's a choice between two hits to the nuts and one hit to the nut, then I'll go with one. And then also, if it's a choice between you know it's gonna, when it's gonna happen to when you don't know it's gonna happen, I'd rather don't know.

• 18:48Speaker 03

  Yes, perhaps the, the, the question could be rejigged, so it's actually two when you

• 18:53Speaker 03

  do know, or one when you don't. Because to me, going around thinking I might get hit in the balls at any moment,

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 19:00Speaker 03

  I think would ruin my whole day, cause I'd be constantly-

• 19:05Speaker 02

  But the thing is, right?

• 19:07Speaker 03

  So if-

• 19:07Speaker 02

  You live your life that way anyway.

• 19:11Speaker 03

  Well.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  You could get hit of the ball, hitting the balls at any moment.

• 19:14Speaker 03

  That's very true, but you know, I don't, that, yeah, but for heaven's sake. You know, let's not, let's try and keep morale up. Let's don't tell people that.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Also, once you've had like kids and a dog and stuff like, my, my dog especially.

• 19:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  Constantly like, I'll be sat there and he'll wanna come and say hello to me.

• 19:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  And he's fucking poor.

• 19:40Speaker 03

  Oh, that, no, they get, they go, they go right up, don't they?

• 19:42Speaker 02

  Just goes straight, straight in the nuts.

• 19:44Speaker 03

  No, and similarly, the other day, I was, I was trying to pick up my daughter to extract her from a squabble or something. And she just kicked me in the butt. It was horrible. Like, it was just like a high, stinging pain. And, and she also wants to hit me in the head with a, a plank, a swing, but effectively a plank of wood.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  And it was so difficult to not be angry with her. I was like, it really, really hurt. It was at the corner of a plank of wood and she just swung it around. It hit me like there. Quite a heavy plank of wood. And I was just like, oh, oh, like, just that kind of like, almost like you're gonna be sick.

• 20:23Speaker 03

  I just didn't know what to do.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Confidence. It's listening to your gut. It's moving forward even when the path ahead is unclear. For nearly one hundred and sixty years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises, building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future or just beginning to envision it, we're here to help. Ask a financial professional how. Pacific Life, the power of a promise. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska, and in New York. Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.

• 21:05Speaker 06

  Women have been there. Something feels off. You don't feel like yourself, yet your doctor says everything looks fine. Spoiler, it's your hormones. Midi is a virtual care platform built for women by women and offers specialised hormone care from trained clinicians. Plus, it's covered by most major insurances. Getting started is easy. You can book your first visit with a clinician right away. It's not you, it's your hormones. Visit joinmidi.com to book your first visit. That's join M I D I dot com. Insurance coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage.

• 21:37Speaker 07

  1965, London. The world's largest uncut diamond has been stolen from the Natural History Museum.

• 21:46Speaker 07

  Shortly after, a young London window cleaner is arrested. They said you're nicked, you're in a lot of trouble. But was he set up?

• 21:53Speaker 03

  Wanted art led to a fall of two cops.

• 21:55Speaker 07

  His family say he is guilty, but of a totally different crime. You're not going to end up going to prison, are you, kiddo? I'm J C Long and this is Rough Diamond. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  Right, Joe, after all our waffle, we do need to start talking about some facts.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  Is this episode about the Punic Wars? Or am I just really excited?

• 22:26Speaker 03

  No, it is about, it is about.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  I love the Punic Wars.

• 22:28Speaker 03

  It is about the Punic Wars.

• 22:29Speaker 02

  Oh, the Punic Wars are incredible.

• 22:32Speaker 03

  So just, so the Punic Wars, what we're talking about is the wars between Rome and Carthage.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah. And it was literally, it was literally for all the marbles. Whoever wins this war controls, as far as they're concerned.

• 22:48Speaker 03

  The world.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  The world, right? And it's absolutely amazing. Like, there's fucking war elephants and.

• 22:56Speaker 03

  The elephant thing is good.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  And blood oaths. And on both sides, there's the sons seeking vengeance for their fallen fathers and stuff like that. It's absolutely amazing. And like, because you get Hannibal and then his son, is it Hannibal's son? Who's the one that ends up being Africanus after, like, when it all?

• 23:21Speaker 03

  Well, Scipio Africanus, right? He defeated.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. But I think it's, I think there's, Scipio also had a father called Scipio.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think.

• 23:31Speaker 03

  He may well have done.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  Uh, and then Skippy Africanus, I think is um the grandfather or even the father possibly of the Gracai brothers, um which come later and they're super interesting as well.

• 23:45Speaker 03

  So these families retain, I mean, I've in um, I don't, I've read uh almost all of Imperium by Robert Harris and the families do seem to be, not because it's bad, I just didn't finish it, I'd read almost all, it's it's.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  Did someone slice the last page out?

• 24:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, like you did on the on the, yeah, when my, the last page was cut out with a scalpel. Uh, no, it's very good. I think I'd basically, I I felt like the main, the main story had finished. Anyway. But in that family, the big families seem to have uh a lot of influence and for all its republicanism, it's also still quite a sort of hereditary uh society.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's still um, it still has a lingering what what on on European and even American uh society.

• 24:44Speaker 03

  Well, it does because if you look at, so the word Caesar, I may have, I've probably said this before, but like Kaiser.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Kaiser.

• 24:51Speaker 03

  Means Caesar.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  Tsar means Caesar.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:54Speaker 03

  Um, Shah, I think, the Shah of Iran, the person who was kicked out by the Iranian revolution, who's, one of whose family members is now kind of militating for the people who replaced the Shah to themselves to be replaced. That means Caesar as well, I think. It's it's almost like this, this one bloke basically got anyone who wanted to be a king to call themselves him, basically.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it could have been. Completely different if it had gone the other way around.

• 25:26Speaker 03

  We could be saying.

• 25:27Speaker 02

  We're still feeling those ripples, we're still feeling the effects today um from the Punic Wars.

• 25:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  Um, they were fought between the the Roma Republic and Carthage um from two sixty four B C to one hundred and forty six B C. So like about a hundred years or so they were going on for.

• 25:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Um, the name Punic, which I I've I actually have I've heard different information. I think I spoke about it before. Um, because the people that ended up from uh in Carthage were uh were from Phoenicia. Which was um sort of more Middle Eastern, but they ended up in the in the north of Africa there.

• 26:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, makes sense.

• 26:04Speaker 02

  So Phoenician or Punician.

• 26:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  As the Romans would pronounce it. But this says um, it comes from the Latin word Pene- Pene- Penechus, which means Carthaginian, which makes more sense to me to be honest with you. Um, but they would, the wars were basically, it would basically decide who would control the Mediterranean world. Which at that time, in that area, was pretty much the the whole world.

• 26:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  Um, Rome didn't have much naval experience. They didn't have much, uh at this point, they didn't have much experience. You know, when you think of Rome nowadays, the Roman Empire and all that, at that at that point, they didn't have much experience in fighting outside of Rome even.

• 26:50Speaker 03

  Right.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Um, they, I think what would happen, and this isn't my facts by the way, this is just me.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  No, this is, I love it. I love this. I love this.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  The the Carthagi- uh Carthagi-

• 27:00Speaker 03

  Carthaginians.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  Carthaginians were great naval explorers, really good with their boats and stuff, you know, uh and the Romans basically did what they did at Area fifty one, where they found a crashed boat and um and retro.

• 27:16Speaker 03

  Reverse engineered it.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  Reverse engineered it. And then um, and the Romans, and I'm going off, but.

• 27:22Speaker 03

  But it's funny to think that Rome didn't have a, you know, you would have thought that if you're a Mediterranean power, you had, you would have to have some sort of naval capability baked in. And it seems as though perhaps they did.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  But Romans were brilliant. Um. Army, brilliant army, bad navy.

• 27:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  Carthage, really great navy, not as good army, right?

• 27:44Speaker 03

  No.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  So Rome retroactively sort of started copying their boats.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  And then they were all, they also were like, listen, we're really good fucking hand to hand and sword to sword and stuff.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  So they started putting these long planks like on their boats and they would just, they would just storm the Carthaginians boats. And that was how they started to get, started to win naval battles.

• 28:10Speaker 03

  So they would be on boats, but they would.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  They would basically be fighting.

• 28:13Speaker 03

  They'd turn it into effectively a land.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  They would take, turn it into land, land combat on, on, on water. That wasn't what I wanted to talk about.

• 28:21Speaker 03

  No, I love it. That's, that's really, I mean, to think that there is, and also surprising that the people with all the elephants are also the ones using the boat.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  The elephants.

• 28:30Speaker 03

  Because you'd have thought of elephants and boats.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  That came through the mountains and stuff in the north of, um, Hannibal, um, they, he was in, um, the, basically in Spain at the, at the time. And, uh, the Italians were like, well, he's definitely gonna sail back to, you know, maybe go through Sicily or something like that. And Hannibal was like, no, we're gonna fucking walk through the Alps.

• 28:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  We're just gonna go, and everyone was like, you're nuts, mate.

• 28:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  He lost an eye going through those Alps.

• 29:00Speaker 03

  Did he?

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it was, it was nuts.

• 29:02Speaker 03

  The elephants over the Alps, I think, is one of the great sort of images of history.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:08Speaker 03

  I think that seems just.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  But I could, I could, uh, with my half-baked sort of uneducated, uh, facts about, uh, the.

• 29:19Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, I love a half-baked fact.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  Um, but I do love the Punic Wars so much.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Um, but the one thing I really wanna talk about was, um, just how I was talking about how it still has an effect today.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  Now, the, um.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  We you wouldn't have a senate in America if Carthage had won those wars. Um. Because uh obviously the Italians, the Romans, they weren't Italians, they weren't Italians until quite recently.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  Very recently, yeah, really. I mean, nineteenth century, maybe?

• 29:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

• 29:56Speaker 03

  Garibaldi.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, they didn't.

• 29:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, yeah, it was, yeah, it's um.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  I I literally think it was, it was, I think it might. Were were they, was Italy, Italy properly united during the First World War?

• 30:09Speaker 03

  Might have been. Italy and Germany both unified really late, I think in the nineteenth century and, um, yeah.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  But just, just the, the fact that the, the, the Roman Senate.

• 30:19Speaker 03

  The Roman Senate, yeah.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  Senate and and that got spread and it and it's still, America has a senate and I I know that's probably not the most interesting fact.

• 30:29Speaker 03

  No, but but I think.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  If you are listening to this and I think, I know I've been banging on and probably not making sense because I'm genuinely quite excited about talking about the Punic Wars. Look into the Punic Wars, it's so fucking interesting. It is like Star Wars, it is literally like Star Wars. Uh. But all of the, you know, the, the, the first, the first three, the next three, then the three after that. Because they've all got fucking descendants that swear blood oaths to get uh revenge and things like that.

• 30:57Speaker 03

  And as you say, although it wasn't the world, as far as they were concerned.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:01Speaker 03

  It was the world.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  It was the universe. It was their universe. It was, it was, it was like Star Wars but real. And there are war elephants, like just the fact that like if you were a Roman and you'd never seen a fucking elephant before.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  And they come in from, from the mist over the outs.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  And an elephant is, if you want to see a creature.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  It would have looked like an alien.

• 31:21Speaker 03

  It would have looked like an alien, yeah. And it is, even, even when you have seen elephants before, every time you see one, you're like, that is, that is a peculiar looking creature.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  That's fucking weird. Yeah.

• 31:31Speaker 03

  So.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  Well, you know, you're always at the zoo.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  I'm always at the zoo, I'm constantly at the zoo. So even for me, I mean, I'm, I'm at the zoo daily and I'm, I'm, I can't believe it.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  But, um.

• 31:40Speaker 03

  I'm kind of going up to the zookeeper, I'm like, what's that? What is it again? And they're like, it's an elephant. Oh, I can't believe it.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  Also, I think something, I think the word punic actually might mean, again, because, you know.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  Uh the victors, whoever wins the war gets to write the the history and what happens going forward, right? That's.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  You know, I think uh or Phoenician or something like that, or Punic or Phoenician, I think it means distrustworthy or or something. Um even to this day, um but yeah, you you've got a senate in America. So if any of you guys are American, I don't think we get many American listeners. But if we if we are, let us know in the comments.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  Um you have a s- if if it wasn't for the Punic Wars, you wouldn't have a senate in America. Fact.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  Let me stick that there.

• 32:32Speaker 03

  It's it it is still like the importance of that kind of whether or not, whether or not these institutions were perfect, and I'm sure they weren't, the sense of that type of republic and kind of what it represents is still incredibly important.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  I don't think there is a perfect, um I don't think, I think we're human beings and we're and and just by, you know, by default, we're imperfect. But there's there's there's doing your best.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  And you're right, it is it is exactly the same idea. There's it's it's the senate is.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  And the irony of of Caesars and emperors and stuff in Rome and and the whole sort of um foundation of Rome was that we don't want kings, we don't want, you know, so there is an irony that that did that eventually there was.

• 33:23Speaker 03

  The the great, the the biggest legacy of it is just this word.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:26Speaker 03

  This word Caesar.

• 33:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:28Speaker 03

  Um.

• 33:29Speaker 02

  But there would be like in times of like war or or or if there's an emergency or something like that. Like, one person would be given absolute power.

• 33:41Speaker 03

  There was a thing.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  For about a year or something like that.

• 33:43Speaker 03

  Called a dictator.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:45Speaker 03

  But the dictator was it it it sort of partly meant like emergency caretaker manager.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  It meant just for a bit.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  It was an emergency, it was like, this guy seems to know what he's doing, let's all just do what he says for a bit.

• 33:56Speaker 03

  The problem is is that what happens is that people get to be dictator. And then what they think to themselves is, how come I'm allowed to do this stuff? And then people say, because it's an emergency. And then they go. What if it was always an emergency?

• 34:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  And that's basically, so that's every dictatorship is constantly at war.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Well, in Rome.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  And if they haven't got a real war, they make up a war.

• 34:18Speaker 02

  Let's not go to Joe Rogan just yet.

• 34:20Speaker 03

  Well, no, no, I'm not. I don't, I'm, I don't think I, I think they.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  But in the early.

• 34:24Speaker 03

  I think things that aren't really wars are classed as wars, like the war against immigrants.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  In the early days of Rome, they would have these people that would be put in charge of keeping watch of Rome and doing, doing the right thing for Rome.

• 34:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  And then when the time, when the time came where the emergency was over, they always relinquished it.

• 34:44Speaker 03

  See, that is, and what you, what is required there is you need the people who've got that job to not be a dick.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  And that's the problem we've got at the moment.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  They always went, oh, is it over now? Great. Let's go back to normal. No one ever then just went, I'm fucking keeping hold of this.

• 35:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  Uh, which is similar to, again, to America, um, George Washington. They constantly were hounding him going, do you wanna, we gotta get you to be president again. He was like, no, no, no, that's not.

• 35:13Speaker 03

  It's good.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  That's not what this is about. Deep midterm or whatever.

• 35:16Speaker 03

  He did, yeah. He, um, he, he just, he relinquished power.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  He was like, and he was super popular. He had, uh, again, like this feels very Roman, even though it wasn't that long ago in, in human history. But he had the army, he had the military, that every, like, cause he was a military man himself. And that's usually how people came to power, um, during Rome.

• 35:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Is that it would be a general or something like that, that would be able to either bribe the senate or get the senate on their, their part. But would also be, I've also got an army here, so do you wanna let me be in charge?

• 35:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  Um, and George Washington said, no, I'm all good. It's not what we fought. We, we fought that whole big fucking war to not have people, uh, not to have tyranny. And not to have people just be in control of it.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  In Hamilton, where George the third hears that Washington is stepping down, he says, in a song.

• 36:17Speaker 03

  Is that, is that true? Well, I suppose he's almost the one person who doesn't kind of rap or kind of have that.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  I've never, I've never seen Hamilton, I'll be honest. And I love musicals.

• 36:27Speaker 03

  Well, when he, when he hears that George Washington stepping down, he says, is that true? I wasn't aware. That's a thing that a person could do. And, uh, Hamilton is a great musical. And actually, I think almost the, my entire source of information about, uh, the founding of America.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  Again, also is such a, such a fascinating part of history. I love, um, the, I love the Revolutionary War. I love the American Civil War.

• 36:50Speaker 03

  I can't believe the Revolutionary War isn't more taught in Britain. It's a huge blind.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  Course it's not.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, because we lost, but like, but it, I know, but it's, that's terrible. You've got to teach what you want. It's crazy.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  I was like, I was like a proper adult and I was like, wait a minute, we owned America.

• 37:04Speaker 03

  It's ridiculous that, and also i- i- it's just kind of, you need to know the origins of those traditions that they are kind of.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  America to America.

• 37:12Speaker 03

  Because we speak the same language. We assume that, well, we'll, we'll probably know what we're doing anyway. You're like, no, this is a completely different country.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  America to Britain is like, um, is like a girlfriend that you sort of didn't try enough with. And it sort of petered out.

• 37:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  And, um, and she was a good girl. She was a nice girl and stuff, but you weren't, you weren't really that fussed at the time and you had other stuff going on.

• 37:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  Uh, and then like a couple of years later, she gets really fucking hot and you're like, oh no.

• 37:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, it does. It does seem a bit like that the British just kind of went home.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  They dropped a bollock on that one. They did, I mean.

• 37:47Speaker 03

  They probably could have put in a bit more effort. Yeah. But also they didn't know that that.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  Fucking.

• 37:53Speaker 03

  That that group of thirteen colonies was going to become the most powerful country in the world.

• 37:56Speaker 02

  Oh God, yeah.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  And it, and at that point.

• 37:59Speaker 02

  And not just that, like microwaves and Chick-fil-A and stuff and we could have had all that.

• 38:04Speaker 03

  With that Elvis.

• 38:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. Fucking we fucked that right up.

• 38:09Speaker 03

  We fucked it a bit, yeah, but um, but um, so hang on, what's the um?

• 38:14Speaker 02

  My, my, just, just my fact was, it's very loose fact, but just how, even though it was like a, a few hundred years B C.

• 38:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  It still has had a ripple effect on west, western society especially, and, and like you were saying about shards and stuff like that.

• 38:32Speaker 03

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  It, it's still, we're still feeling those effects of, of the, of the Punic Wars in society, the, this, this day and age. It's absolutely amazing. It's incredible.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  And I said, I've probably said, I've got a load of facts and stuff wrong and muddled up stuff, but look, look it up yourself. In fact, there's a really good series, if you're like me and you're an idiot and you like um, being spoon fed, um, especially historical facts. There's a really great channel on YouTube called Extra History and it's just little stick men cartoons with someone narrating it. And they do a whole thing on the Punic Wars. Also their Justinian and Theodora uh, um, series they did as well was like really, really great, really, really fascinating. Um.

• 39:19Speaker 03

  Lovely.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  So yeah, go and check that out. But that's my fact. Like the Punic Wars, still important to this day. Still has, has um, has a little sort of ripple effect on what, what we do.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  And it, and, and it, and it holds both, both those traditions of both republicanism and kind of monarchy in a sense. Both are equally strongly represented, you'd argue. So like republicanism on the one hand and kind of Caesar having a essentially a dictator. Are both strongly represented in most, whatever political position you were starting from, you could find inspiration.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  Thanks for that, Joe.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Confidence. It's listening to your gut. It's moving forward even when the path ahead is unclear. For nearly 160 years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises, building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future, or just beginning to envision it, we're here to help. Ask a financial professional how. Pacific Life, the power of a promise. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska, and in New York. Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.

• 40:36Speaker 06

  Hot flashes, rage crying, forgetting words mid-sent-ten. Yeah, we know. Menopause is a lot. Midi Health gets it. That's why Midi offers virtual healthcare specially tailored to women's needs. Built for women by women. Every symptom, every stage, every question. Visit joinmidi.com to get started today. That's join m i d i dot com. Individual results and coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage. Hello, I'm Joanna Fletcher.

• 41:09Speaker 03

  And I'm Marco Burchella.

• 41:11Speaker 06

  And this is Boots Off.

• 41:14Speaker 03

  We are friends who have spent a decade together, walking up mountains, across deserts, and along coastlines with some seriously awesome groups of humans.

• 41:22Speaker 06

  And something happens when you're out there, feet on the ground, surrounded by nature. The conversations just spill out of you.

• 41:28Speaker 03

  This series is about the adversities that lead to adventure.

• 41:31Speaker 06

  The adventures that lead to adversity.

• 41:33Speaker 03

  And how life can be one big adventure in itself.

• 41:37Speaker 06

  Listen every Thursday. Just search for Boots Off.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  Hey, listen, now that I've bored everyone to death, even though I find it really, really fascinating, and I know, I know everyone's switched off, we should probably do a little fact check quickly. This is the part of the show where we read a question that you'd like us to get to the bottom of, and then we're gonna have a good little think during the break, and then we'll come back to let you know how true it feels to us. So we'll decide whether it passes our fact check.

• 42:07Speaker 03

  Let's go. Okay, so I'm gonna read this out, aren't I? So this week's fact check comes from Daniel, who's emailed us to say- Hello Joan James, big fan of the podcast. I was celebrating the Battle of Hastings Day.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Course you were, we all were. I can't even remember. I can't even remember last day.

• 42:21Speaker 03

  I've got, I've got to calm down a bit.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  Fucking hell.

• 42:23Speaker 03

  God, it's more like, you know, Battle of Hastings Day, it's like four day hangover.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  That's the thing, Claire's like, I don't want you going mental on Battle of Hastings Day again this year.

• 42:31Speaker 03

  I have to.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  I always go, no, I always go, no, I won't. But then, you know, it's like.

• 42:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. You just get caught up in the, you know, all the.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  You do.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  And so someone brings out a crossbow and then before you know it.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  Well, you got an arrow in the eye.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  No. Oh, I can't, I can't have too many of them running out of eyes.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Anyway, Daniel.

• 42:52Speaker 03

  I was celebrating the Battle of Hastings Day last year with the creative beers, as you do. Of course you do. Which got me thinking about when you drink and need to go to the toilet and people say about breaking the seal. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. Which then leads to going to the toilet after every drink. Is there any truth to breaking the seal? Thanks, Daniel. Good question. Yeah, good question. Very much now we're hell, we're house, I think. Cause it's sort of urban myth and also bodily.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  I've got to be honest, man. I don't know too much about the, the phrase breaking the seal. I've heard it. I thought it was like the piss equivalent to, um, touching cloth.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  I don't think it is, but we're going to get on the case.

• 43:30Speaker 02

  Maybe you need to piss so much that you're starting to leak a little bit. The seal's been broken and you've got. Like, I'm not saying I've been in that situation, but.

• 43:38Speaker 03

  No, I don't, I'm not sure it is that. I think, I think we're talking about something higher up inside the body. Where there's a valve of some kind.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:46Speaker 05

  Now, breaking the seal is if you're out drinking, as soon as you go to the toilet.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Well, anyway, we should probably go for a break.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  Get on the case.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  We should probably go for a break and we'll talk about this after the break. We'll be right back.

• 44:01Speaker 05

  What's the significance of that bag behind you? Is that from one of your?

• 44:05Speaker 02

  Laundry bag, I think.

• 44:07Speaker 05

  Is it meant to be though, part of the set? One of you had one of these as a kid?

• 44:12Speaker 03

  Leave one of my. What's going on? Is that your actual laundry bag? I fucking might be. Also, James, you went to your person's socks?

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I am. Yeah, I've got shoes that are slightly too big for me.

• 44:22Speaker 03

  I love the way I can just see it coming through a little bit.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  So I have to wear sort of thick socks.

• 44:26Speaker 03

  I thought you were trying to knock brand or something. You know, when you have a logo and they come out with tape or something.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  I do wear cream. The problem is, is I, whenever I buy shoes, I always wear thick. Like, schoolboy socks, socks that you'd wear to PE or something. And then when I get home, I, I wanted to wear thin socks with these because I like the cream colour.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  And they were just felt a bit uncomfortable. They felt a bit loose. I was like, oh, these don't feel as nice as when I've got my thick socks on.

• 44:54Speaker 03

  Pop another inner sole in, that'd just close the gap a bit.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  I might get lifts.

• 44:58Speaker 03

  I had lifts for a film I did once because I was, I was small. I did, um, the festival.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  And Hamid, who was my co-star, is must be over six foot and like they did have to put stuff in my wellies to make me, because it was like, he was so much taller than me.

• 45:13Speaker 02

  Like, sort of Lord of the Rings or something.

• 45:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  Like working with Greg Davis, basically.

• 45:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we once, we got accused of, um.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  It wasn't accused. People were like, because Greg Davis is so.

• 45:26Speaker 03

  So tall.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  So tall. And we're not tall.

• 45:29Speaker 03

  We're not tall.

• 45:29Speaker 02

  Apart from Blake, obviously.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I mean, even Blake is within.

• 45:33Speaker 02

  Blake's six.

• 45:34Speaker 03

  Six, yeah, okay.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  I think he might be over six.

• 45:36Speaker 03

  Maybe he's over six. But certainly me, you and Bird, we're, you know, we're.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Bird especially.

• 45:41Speaker 03

  What's he, five, five eight?

• 45:42Speaker 02

  I don't know, but he was, because they were like, when it was, because there's a lot of Gilbert and Will scenes, isn't there?

• 45:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  With them two together. And they're like, fucking hell, man, it's amazing that, like, you guys use that Lord of the Rings technology to get, to get, to get.

• 45:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  Teacher and the kids to look so small. We're like, no, that's it.

• 46:00Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  That's what they look like stood together.

• 46:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was funny. And.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  There was a thing where they were doing a scene together and because Bird kept lining up to his belly or something.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  And, and Greg Davis's belly would move and it kept make, it kept putting.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  So Bird kept laughing.

• 46:19Speaker 03

  He is tall. Well, and on, on Taskmaster, where, which he presents with Alex Horn, like Alex Horn is tall, like he's like six two. And on Taskmaster.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  He doesn't look it.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  He's not, yeah, he looks like, he's known as Little Al, Little Alex. Yeah.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  I say that about like basketball players, I like when I'd watch the NBA or stuff.

• 46:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Um, I'd be like, fucking hell, that bloke's tiny.

• 46:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  How has he managed to get in a, onto a basketball team?

• 46:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  And then I'd like Google him, who it is and be like, he's six foot two.

• 46:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  I was like, oh no, he's really tall.

• 46:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, the whole thing.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  But everyone else is just a giant.

• 46:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, it is. Well, wasn't it, um, uh, Michael Jordan was only six foot two.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  Is that for sure?

• 47:01Speaker 03

  And one of the things that people always say about him is he was so brilliant, even though he was basically quite short. And in that context, quite short means six foot two.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 47:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  Anyway, we're getting, um, we're trying to get to the bottom of, um, the saying breaking the seal, um.

• 47:19Speaker 03

  Well, first of all, I do think this is true. I mean, it is, you can have, I don't know, three or four pints and you just feel sort of fine.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 47:26Speaker 03

  And then you go once and then it's like, well, when I was at school, they, uh, my biology teacher used to say, water molecules love each other. So basically if you, uh, if you start a flow of water, it kind of wants to carry on. And I always used to watch my dad, what, what was he doing? There's a thing that where you could, he might even have, my dad used to make wine and you could basically get something to go up a tube and go into something that was actually higher up than where it was coming from.

• 47:55Speaker 02

  I think that was like an eighties, nineties thing. My dad, my dad brewed beer and jugs for a little while.

• 48:00Speaker 03

  So he'd start the flow himself. So once the flow started, the water keeps kind of going like, sort of like lemmings. It goes, oh, the other guys are going up there. So let's, let's go there. And, um, but obviously that's not the case with, with piss because you do stop the flow.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  No, but there is a thing like, once you, once you go for, once you're down the pub and you go for that one piss, you do like twice an hour.

• 48:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, you've just basically got to constantly. Once, once you've done that.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  The only thing that confuses me about that is that alcohol is meant to be dehydrating, right?

• 48:33Speaker 02

  Is that true?

• 48:33Speaker 03

  It is. No, but what happened, no, the reason, well, is that, well, it is dehydrating because what it, what's happening is that your body is using all your water to try and get rid, alcohol's a poison, actually, a, a, a, a low key poison. So like, it, your body.

• 48:49Speaker 02

  I'll drink some of that.

• 48:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. So your body is, that'd be good. We should save this for if we get a beer sponsorship. Um, it's poison. So, so when they say pick your poison, they do, so what your body is doing is it's using water that's inside your body to flush out the poison.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 49:04Speaker 03

  So once you have done all your, the body didn't want to do that number of wheezes, but it was like, we have to.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, we've got to get rid of this.

• 49:09Speaker 03

  Because we have to, we have to flush out this stuff. And then once you've got, so it's always, it's always annoying if you've had lots of pints, because what you need to do is, you need to do loads of wheezes, then you're dehydrated, then you need to have water to replace the dehydration, then you have too much water, then you're like, so now I need to piss out all that water. And then that's what it's ages to go to bed. Cause you're like, you have to constantly keep stopping. It's like, it's like a two, two hour process to kind of.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Also, I mean, I've had a few beers, like my piss is crystal clear.

• 49:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  So I'm not, I'm not, cause I always thought if you, if your piss was.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  No, but you're getting.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  Had a colour, that, that means you need to drink more water. You're not, you're, you're.

• 49:41Speaker 03

  No, I think, I think it doesn't, I think it doesn't really apply in the alcohol situation, because you're basically, you're getting rid of water that your body actually wants to kind of hold on to.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 49:51Speaker 03

  Uh, because it's, but it can't because it's trying to get rid of the, of the alcohol.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  But breaking the seal, uh, the, um.

• 50:00Speaker 03

  What, what's odd about breaking the seal?

• 50:00Speaker 02

  The phrase breaking the seal.

• 50:01Speaker 03

  It's definitely, it's definitely correct, but I'm, but I don't know why it's scientifically true.

• 50:05Speaker 02

  But that's, um, that's a phrase, a specific phrase that lends itself to lots of stuff, doesn't it?

• 50:11Speaker 03

  Break the seal, yeah.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Did it come from Pringles? Do you think it came from Pringles?

• 50:14Speaker 03

  It came from Pringles, yeah.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  As long as you pop, you just can't stop, can you?

• 50:18Speaker 03

  I'm trying to think.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  Pringles, get in touch. We'll, we'll.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Fucking love Pringles.

• 50:23Speaker 03

  It goes well with beer. Pringles. I think, yeah, no, it does. It comes from, well, no, it is used in lots of, well, the, the, the idea being that there's a kind of.

• 50:35Speaker 02

  But it's also true in that once you've gone to piss once, then like I say, like every half hour, every drink, after every drink, you, you've got to go, got to go to the loo after that. There's truth in it. I'm going to go as fact.

• 50:47Speaker 03

  There is truth in it, but what, what, exactly how was it phrased though? Is there any truth to breaking the seal? Anecdotally, in my experience, it's definitely a thing.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 50:56Speaker 03

  It's definitely a truth. There's no, so if you have, if you, if you had like four pints.

• 51:02Speaker 03

  You still might not like feel like you even particularly need to go to the toilet. If you go once, now presumably there's less beer in you.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  But now if you put one more pint in, you have to go with as great a need.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  If I'm not drinking, I'll maybe, if I'm not drinking, I'll maybe piss twice a day.

• 51:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  But if I'm having a beer and then I have a couple of pints and I go, I've got to go and have a piss.

• 51:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:29Speaker 02

  And then, yeah, so I fucking, I'm, I'm like, if I'm having four or five more beers after that, yeah, definitely four or five more pisses.

• 51:36Speaker 03

  Definitely. It's one, but it's then one out, one in. What's weird is that, but, but by the time you've, it is, isn't it? It's like the, the first bit, it's like, I don't know what's going on with the first bit, where you can have lots of pints inside you.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:50Speaker 03

  And sort of.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  You're fine.

• 51:52Speaker 03

  Not much is happening. Anyway, so after that, I don't know, it's like, it's like a sort of policy change from the body. Do you know what I mean? It's like, it's like the, um, it's like the body's sort of gone.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  What you said about it's, it's trying to flush out the poison. It's trying to get rid of it.

• 52:07Speaker 03

  Maybe to begin with, it's like, it doesn't quite know what it is. It's like, is it poison? And then you do it once and it's like, I was poisoned. So from now on, every time.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Shall we ask? I'm gonna say it's fact, just for.

• 52:19Speaker 03

  I think it's, I'm sure, I do think, I think it's fact.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  Just because it happens to me every time.

• 52:24Speaker 03

  It happens to me every time.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:26Speaker 03

  And I, it just is true.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. Once I break the seal, I'm, I'm pissing all night long.

• 52:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  After that.

• 52:33Speaker 03

  It just is true. So, but we, but we, but maybe we need to find out why it's true.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  So did what we said.

• 52:39Speaker 03

  We're confident enough to not even ask if it's true.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  It's fact. It is fact.

• 52:42Speaker 03

  I think it's so fact it hurts.

• 52:43Speaker 02

  It is fact, but yeah, no, it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Only because through my own experience, it is so fact it hurts.

• 52:50Speaker 03

  I think it's so fact it hurts.

• 52:58Speaker 05

  So it is true, but it's quite a hard one to search because the internet thinks I'm asking there's an actual seal that breaks.

• 53:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, okay.

• 53:05Speaker 05

  But it says alcohol suppresses the release of an antidiuretic hormone. This hormone instructs the kidney to absorb any guzzled fluids to distribute to the rest of the body.

• 53:15Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 53:17Speaker 05

  So I guess your body's not retaining any of the liquid.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  So the kidney, it's just bypassing the kidneys, going straight out the piss pipe.

• 53:24Speaker 03

  Although that's, that's, so, so it suppresses an antidiuretic.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  So even if you'd had a couple of beers and then was just like, say you had four pints.

• 53:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:33Speaker 02

  And you're like, God, I need to piss. So you have a piss and you go, do you know what? I'm just gonna have pints of water from now on. I would, I feel like the kidneys would still be bypassed and you'd still carry on pissing.

• 53:43Speaker 03

  As long as alcohol's in your system, the antidiuretic hormone is. So, but that still doesn't quite cover the.

• 53:51Speaker 02

  Well, that's the seal breaking, isn't it? That's the seal breaking. The body goes, there's alcohol going on, we need to flush this out.

• 54:01Speaker 03

  So the alcohol gets up to a sufficient level.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  I wonder if.

• 54:05Speaker 03

  Where from that point on.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  I wonder if you had five pints.

• 54:11Speaker 02

  Now, I wouldn't do this as an experiment because it sounds boring.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  But you're having a good, you're having a night, you're with, you're in the pub, you're with your pals, you know, fucking, you're out the house, you're enjoying yourself, right?

• 54:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 54:27Speaker 02

  You have a couple of pints, three pints, you have three pints. Usually after, after three pints, that's when I'm like, fucking, I've got to go for a piss.

• 54:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:33Speaker 02

  And then it is like, after every drink, I've got to go for a piss.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  But that's what I like about going to the pub. So I'm just wondering whether if I stopped at three pints and didn't drink anything else after that, whether I'd still, like after half an hour, would still need to piss.

• 54:54Speaker 03

  It seems to me that what's happening is that the.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  I might have to do some more research on this one.

• 55:00Speaker 03

  I think the alcohol is at a certain.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  I think I've got to spend more time down the pub.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  For this, for uh, for this podcast. For my work.

• 55:08Speaker 03

  It's your work, yeah, that's the thing. You probably will actually have to.

• 55:11Speaker 02

  And it'll be a business expense.

• 55:12Speaker 03

  You have to turn your phone off or something as well, because they'll be like, oh, I'm at work, I can't be.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly, yeah. I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying. I'm doing expert, I'm doing science.

• 55:19Speaker 03

  Exactly, as you say, you'll need to take out pay cash.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I'll be keeping the receipts.

• 55:24Speaker 03

  We'll put a line in the budget for audio always, and they'll be like, that seems a bit high.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:31Speaker 03

  So we're saying, so, yeah, so that's.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  We're saying fact, it's, it's, so you're saying fact, the computer was all.

• 55:38Speaker 03

  So interestingly, it's not the liquid in the beer, it's the alcohol in the beer. So presumably, even if you drank something that was not particularly liquid. So you just had lots of whiskey.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  Cause that.

• 55:50Speaker 03

  It seems to me that the, the, the natural state of affairs is for, so if you didn't have the antidiuretic, you'd put the liquid in. And it just kind of comes straight out the other end.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 56:00Speaker 03

  So the antidiuretic is to say, retain some of that water. But then if you have the alcohol, it returns things to a kind of state of nature where it's like, put it in, it comes out. Right? So that's why it's just all, but it, but it is also flushing away.

• 56:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:13Speaker 03

  The poison.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  But I, I, and I assume also that's why you're dehydrated the next day.

• 56:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  Because any, any water that is in your body is being, is being used to flush out the alcohol.

• 56:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's it. And you're not, yeah, exactly.

• 56:29Speaker 02

  Thank you very much. We've got to the bottom of it. Thank you, Daniel.

• 56:31Speaker 03

  Thank you, Daniel.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  Um, Joe, have you got a fact for me?

• 56:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I have.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  And clearly, is it more interesting than my one?

• 56:37Speaker 03

  Well, no, I, I mean, I found it interesting, but, but, but, um.

• 56:42Speaker 03

  I don't know. Uh, so. This is, uh, about, so I was thinking about the Punic Wars and about. The, uh, the, the Mediterranean world that, that they were fought in. And I was thinking, well, we've been to. Uh, Majorca, because the Carthaginians had, they also part of their empire, I suppose, was the Baleric Islands.

• 57:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 57:08Speaker 03

  Majorca.

• 57:09Speaker 02

  Menorca, is that it? And Ibiza?

• 57:12Speaker 03

  The.

• 57:14Speaker 03

  Carthaginians used to get a specific sort of soldier from the Baleric Islands. A specific sort of soldier, and I wonder if you might like to guess what that type of soldier is? There was a cer- a certain skill that this.

• 57:34Speaker 02

  Certain skill from.

• 57:35Speaker 03

  Certain skill.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  Oh, man, I would love to have a really clever answer for you.

• 57:40Speaker 03

  Well, I will, shall I, I'll give you a, I'll give you a clue.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Go on.

• 57:43Speaker 03

  Think of, uh, David and Goliath.

• 57:47Speaker 02

  Oh, those people that would.

• 57:48Speaker 03

  Slingers, slingers, the slingers came from the Baleric Islands, and in fact, the Baleric Islands, their name comes from the Greek word ballow, meaning to throw.

• 58:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 58:01Speaker 03

  Uh, and yeah, so this was, so these guys.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  I fucking love it.

• 58:05Speaker 03

  I suppose what I'm thinking is, in the David and Goliath story, it's one guy who gets the giant with this rock. I imagine that it was more like a hail of arrows, so you'd get, so these stones were.

• 58:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the sky would go black.

• 58:17Speaker 03

  Yes, they, they, they weren't massive, they were about half a kilogram, twenty one ounces, these, these stones that they throw, but if you had a thou-, you know, two, two thousand slingers, what would happen is just a hail of stones would suddenly come down. And it seems to say it was often the way that they would begin a battle, a bit like with loads of arrows to kind of soften the.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:36Speaker 03

  Soften the enemy up, so, so I didn't know that, and I didn't know that slingers were a kind of, could be like a regiment of slingers.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I didn't know that either, yeah.

• 58:44Speaker 03

  Infantry, but, yeah, that's, that's my, uh, that's my facts, what do you think, what do you think about that?

• 58:50Speaker 02

  No, I love that.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  And, uh, you know, we were on the, we were obviously on Mallorca with, with Greg Davis, so we could have done a sort of David and Goliath thing, where he's, he's the giant, and, um.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  I don't think I'd be able to throw a stone high enough to hit him on the head.

• 59:05Speaker 03

  No, well, Bird couldn't, certainly, he wouldn't be able to reach him, he'd be able to reach his sort of upper chest, but there's a, but yeah, that's, uh, and I did, I didn't know that that was, but that's what they were renowned for, I don't know why they were particularly, but on, on, um.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Car- Carthage, right?

• 59:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  Um, they got those guys from the Baleric Islands, right?

• 59:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  Um, and also what I was talking about, how they were really, really great shipbuilders.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  And that carried on for centuries, by the way. Um, there was still a point when, um, the.

• 59:43Speaker 02

  Western Empire of the uh uh uh Roman Empire had fallen and Justinian um was uh was the I suppose the early Byzantine.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  That's right, the eastern bit.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:56Speaker 03

  Um. Carried on.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  And then it was the

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  the Visigoths and people like that that'd taken over and they'd taken over Carthage as well. And one of the first things that Justinian wanted back was Carthage. Um because they'd um they basically came.

• 1:00:14Speaker 03

  Have they rebuilt it? The Romans?

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  It was just there. It was these ship, this shipbuilding equipment was just always there, right?

• 1:00:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  And it carried on until like fifteen hundreds. That they were so great and and and Justinian wanted to get Carthage back. That was like the he he eventually for a brief period got Rome back into um into the Roman Empire.

• 1:00:39Speaker 03

  The Roman Empire.

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh but.

• 1:00:41Speaker 03

  Always helps, isn't it?

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, but he um but he um.

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  One of the founding members.

• 1:00:47Speaker 02

  But he uh yeah, he wanted Carthage.

• 1:00:49Speaker 03

  Well, it may have been the case that.

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  Because because the the people that had taken over Carthage after after the Romans had been defeated and and pushed back into the into the west there. Uh was that they had all these ship, these this shipbuilding uh equipment.

• 1:01:03Speaker 03

  Well, see, one of the things.

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  And they be they became masters of the of the Mediterranean, basically.

• 1:01:08Speaker 03

  And and and they was and they and they were still the best. I mean, it's interesting because technology now progresses so quickly, but it's interesting to think of living in a world where.

• 1:01:16Speaker 02

  Well, this is the Middle Ages, isn't it?

• 1:01:17Speaker 03

  The Middle Ages where the.

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  Where everything, everything basically stood still for about.

• 1:01:21Speaker 03

  Still and actually you you would occasionally come, you would come across architecture from the classical world and it was better than what you could do now. But it was from hundreds of years ago and that seems very, that must be very strange. It must have been like. It must have been a weird time to be alive to think we're we're we're worse at like technical things than people who came before us. It's what that must have been. And it was probably perhaps with shipbuilding, I imagine that

• 1:01:48Speaker 03

  maybe for a long time, this level of technology did still represent kind of the the high point of of shipbuilding technology. I don't know. I don't know how much ships kind of improved in the Middle Ages.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  But there was stuff that happened like in the first couple of hundred years of, you know, A D. It carried on for over a thousand years. There was like, like the Knights Templar eventually

• 1:02:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  ended up in Rhodes.

• 1:02:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Um, and and that that that sort of became a thorn in Solomon the Great's side because he couldn't get ships through the Mediterranean and

• 1:02:32Speaker 03

  Isn't their their flag is like the flag of the island of Malta? Isn't that the Knights of St.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's it's steeped in history, like steeped in Middle Middle Age history.

• 1:02:42Speaker 03

  The English flag, the the Cross of St George is is actually the flag of Genoa because English merchants used to fly under the protection of the Genoese state. So what you want, if you if you had a if you had a ship full of valuable cargo, you would want to have some flag up that signified this cargo has been registered with this port and if it gets stolen, don't fuck with us basically. So you needed to be under the protection of a maritime power and Genoa was one of the was the one that some of the English merchants happened to choose. So often you'd have a ship full of English people and they'd be flying the the Genoese flag and that that became

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  Brilliant.

• 1:03:23Speaker 03

  the English flag.

• 1:03:23Speaker 02

  Fucking love that. Right, we should probably we should probably wrap this up.

• 1:03:26Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  Right, we've done Punic Wars, we've done it, all right?

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  Sorry if that was proper nerdy, that.

• 1:03:33Speaker 03

  No, but it was, I think we needed to

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  I needed to get that out of my system.

• 1:03:36Speaker 03

  Well, we needed to break the seal on the Punic Wars.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:03:39Speaker 03

  We've, but now unfortunately we're going to have to do it every half an hour because we've broken the seal.

• 1:03:43Speaker 02

  But yeah, what have we learned today? We have learned that that if the Romans didn't win the Punic Wars, you wouldn't have a Senate in America. We've learned that you do break the seal when you when you when you go out.

• 1:03:59Speaker 03

  That's just true, yeah.

• 1:03:59Speaker 02

  When you go out on the piss and we've learned that The Carthaginians recruited the

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  stoneslingers from, where were they from? Beleriak?

• 1:04:10Speaker 03

  The Beleriak Islands.

• 1:04:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm all fact up.

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  I'm absolutely, I'm fact out.

• 1:04:15Speaker 02

  I'm fact up as well.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  We'll be back next week armed with more facts, chats and piss tracts.

• 1:04:22Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  And don't forget that you can get in touch with us if you'd like us to fact check, fact check, something that feels true to you or whatever nonsense, any kind of like, would you rather? They're good. They're always good fun. Um, our email is hello at joanjamespod.com. Our WhatsApp number is 07822 034330. I would encourage a voice note. I do love a voice note and follow us on social media at joanjamespod. And the, all that information's in the podcast description. If I had struggled saying words there, which I know for a fact I did.

• 1:04:58Speaker 03

  Job.

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  Um, that's it, Joe.

• 1:05:00Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 1:05:00Speaker 02

  We've done another one. We'll be back next week.

• 1:05:02Speaker 03

  We have.

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  See you later. Bye, guys.

• 1:05:04Speaker 03

  Bye.

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  Joan James, fucked up.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Confidence. It's listening to your gut. It's moving forward even when the path ahead is unclear. For nearly 160 years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises, building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future or just beginning to envision it, we're here to help. Ask a financial professional how. Pacific Life, the power of a promise. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska, and in New York. Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.

• 1:05:51Speaker 07

  1965, London. The world's largest uncut diamond has been stolen from the Natural History Museum.

• 1:06:00Speaker 07

  Shortly after, a young London window cleaner is arrested. They said you're nicked, you're in a lot of trouble. But was he set up? Wanted, had fled to fall of two cops. His family say he is guilty, but of a totally different crime. You're not going to end up going to prison, are you, kidlet? I'm J C Long and this is Rough Diamond. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.