Jocko Underground: Why Do People Refuse to Learn or Talk About The Future Of The World Around Us?

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 225. Sitting here with Echo Charles, and we have a variety of questions from the front, from the front lines of life, where people are out there in the trenches, trying to make things happen. They need to maneuver their elements out there on the battlefield of life, and we are going to give these questions some answers, some recommendations, or at a minimum, some courses of action that they can follow to win that battle.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 0:29Jocko Willink?

  So let's get into it.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  And at the very least, avoid some of the pitfalls.

• 0:34Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, avoid enemy ambushes.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Enemy ambushes.

• 0:37Jocko Willink?

  Avoid terrible terrain.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Terrible terrain.

• 0:41Jocko Willink?

  Where they'll get plunging fire upon them.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Bro, I'm here to tell you.

• 0:44Jocko Willink?

  We're trying to watch out for those things.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Correct. Alright, first question. Hello, Jocko. I'm 49, married, and an empty nester.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  My industry has been going through major changes. I've spent a lot of time studying what's coming because I want to understand it and be prepared. The more I learn, the more I learn, though, the more frustrated I become with the people who don't seem interested in learning or even discussing it. I've noticed this mindset spilling into other parts of my life. Instead of trying to convince people, I increasingly keep to myself because it feels easier than arguing with closed-minded people. I still work out, golf, and stay active, but my social circle has gotten much smaller. How do you know when it's wise to stop wasting energy on people who don't want to learn versus when you're becoming

• 1:34Speaker 01

  too isolated? Is this just a normal part of getting older, or is it something I should actively push back against?

• 1:45Jocko Willink?

  Well, it sounds like, cool, it sounds like you're getting after it, so that's good. It sounds like you're growing and evolving in the right direction, because sometimes people devolve.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56Jocko Willink?

  Right, so you gotta watch out for that. So it sounds like you're going in the right direction, so that's good. And when that happens, some of the people in your life and in your world, they don't grow or they don't evolve in the same direction as you. Might not be the wrong direction, but it might not be the same direction.

• 2:15Jocko Willink?

  So they, at that point, may begin to fade from your life a little bit, right?

• 2:23Jocko Willink?

  What does that look like? That's the nature of life in general. That's the nature of life in general. You're gonna have people in your life that you all are into crochet, but then you kind of grow out of crochet, and you don't really hang around with that person anymore. So, that can happen. You go through stages of evolution. You're gonna get new interests, new hobbies, new focuses. You're gonna abandon some of your old focuses, some of your old interests, some of your old hobbies, and some people are gonna come along with you, and some people won't. And that's the way it works. And by the way, you will eventually meet some new people that have the same new interests that you have, and are in this new hobby that you're into.

• 3:03Jocko Willink?

  And that might take a little bit of time. It won't happen immediately, but eventually you'll meet a different

• 3:11Jocko Willink?

  social circle. Might not be totally different. There'll be some Venn diagram, you know, there'll be some people that you're still into jujitsu and they're into jujitsu, but they're also into kayaking, and you're into playing guitar. And so the Venn diagram will still overlap in jujitsu, but you know, they're not playing guitar with you, and you're not going kayaking with them. And that's okay, that's all good. And at some point, your social circle might end up a little bit smaller, but it'll be a little bit tighter. With a bunch of people that have some aligned interests, because you're gonna also have some friends that are into jujitsu and into guitar. So, that's cool, it might tighten up a little bit. So, I don't think you have anything to, you know, be concerned about of becoming isolated.

• 3:54Jocko Willink?

  Because you're just gonna find some new friends out there. Now, that being said, I think it's very important to remember, to keep an open mind. Because I can tell you what, I have all kinds of different friends. I got all kinds of different, I got friends that are hippies, I got friends that are metalheads, I got friends that are finance bros, I got jujitsu junkie friends, I got surf bum friends, I got musician friends. I got, I got friends that smoke pot all day long. I got friends that do mushrooms, what's it called, microdose mushrooms. I've never even done any drugs in my whole life, other than caffeine and alcohol.

• 4:38Jocko Willink?

  I'm definitely not microdosing mushrooms all day, or doing other hallucinogenics on a regular basis. You see what I'm saying?

• 4:45Speaker 01

  I do.

• 4:46Jocko Willink?

  I got friends that are working construction all day. I got friends that are, you know, in police, law enforcement.

• 4:55Jocko Willink?

  Obviously, friends that are in the military. I got friends that are millionaires, I got friends that are billionaires. So, it's all good.

• 5:04Jocko Willink?

  You know, some of my friends have no, you know, to talk about, to talk with them about working out wouldn't even, it wouldn't even be a, it would be an mutually unintelligible discussion. Like, they wouldn't know what I was talking about.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I understand.

• 5:22Jocko Willink?

  They would have no, I could talk about squats, and they would not even, they would not know what that means.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:29Jocko Willink?

  You see what I'm saying? Literally. It's like if you start talking to someone about an uma plata. There's people that have no idea what an uma plata is. There's people that have no idea what a squat is. And I'm friends with all those kind of people. And those different people, that are all different, that have different interests, they bring different things to the table, man. And I appreciate that. And am I gonna, here's the thing, you'll go into the question here, is, am I gonna argue with somebody that has been microdosing mushrooms for a decade? Am I gonna argue with them and try and change their mind about what they're doing? I'm gonna give you a hint, no, I'm not.

• 6:11Jocko Willink?

  Am I gonna argue with someone that loves playing music and hasn't, you know, has kind of made kind of a partial career out of playing music, you know, maybe they're a music coach or a music instructor, but their band never quite made it, and they're kind of getting, you know, am I gonna try and convince them that, you know, what you should do is you should get into insurance sales? No, I'm not gonna do that.

• 6:35Jocko Willink?

  Am I gonna talk, you know, I got friends that are crazy, left-wing liberal, I got friends that are crazy, right-wing conservative, am I gonna try and bring them more to the center? Nope, I'm not. I'm gonna hear their viewpoint, it's gonna be interesting to me, I'm gonna learn from them. But, this, this question sounds, got a little sprinkle of judgment in there. You feel me? A little sprinkle of judgment, just a little sprinkle, right? This mindset of, of, you know, arguing with closed-minded, they're closed-minded, you know, you're working out. You know, wasting energy on people who don't, of course, people don't want to learn. Nobody wants to learn. Apparently, you don't want to learn either, because you don't want to hear what they have to say.

• 7:21Jocko Willink?

  So, so keep that in mind. Don't be super judgmental with people. You can learn from anybody. And you know what, I enjoy these different lives that people live, these different perspectives that they have. They tell me stories that are freaking crazy, like crazy. Crazy stories that I enjoy listening to, that teach me about the world.

• 7:43Jocko Willink?

  So, I guess what I'm saying is, you know, as you grow and as you evolve, don't become jaded, and don't, certainly don't get a superiority complex, which is very tempting, because, because, you know, I would say I, when my kids were

• 8:04Jocko Willink?

  maybe like, let's say 15 years ago, maybe even 20 years ago. I would, I had a little bit of the, you know,

• 8:13Jocko Willink?

  what is it, the food religion, right? You know, can't believe you're eating sugar. You're giving your, hey, you know, you're, oh, you, I don't know if you want to let your kids eat that. I had that, right? And it took me a little, my wife was like, hey, you're not allowed to talk about food with my friends. I was like, oh, I'm an asshole. You see what I'm saying? Because they don't, they're like, bro, I'm trying, my kids are eating a freaking, they're, you know, I got three kids, they're, they're whatever, stabbing balloons with knives, like, things are crazy when you got three kids, you know? And I'm over here like, yo, you sure they want to eat those Doritos? That's probably not the most, you know what? What, no, no, that's not, that's not my world.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Leave them alone, bro.

• 8:51Jocko Willink?

  Now, look, if someone's like a really close friend of mine, and like, hey, man, we, you know, can you talk to them about nutrition for their kids? You can. Again, danger, danger, it's a real sensitive topic, especially when you talk about raising kids, because no one wants to, you know, your suggestions are gonna make people mad. So, be careful of that. Don't become jaded. The idea of, uh, let's see. How do you know it's wise to stop wasting energy on people who don't want to learn? You can't.

• 9:23Jocko Willink?

  You shouldn't waste energy on people that don't want to learn, but that doesn't mean you should cast them out of your life. You should just not try and walk around trying to educate everybody, because that's not fun for anyone. It's really not even fun for you, apparently.

• 9:38Jocko Willink?

  So, and you say, is this just part of getting older, or is this something I should actively push back against? Yeah, the thing you should push back against is just like, be more open-minded, chill, people aren't gonna be on board. If I only hung around with people that fought like me, I'd have zero friends.

• 9:56Jocko Willink?

  You know what I mean?

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Accurate.

• 9:57Jocko Willink?

  I would have zero friends. I would have zero friends. My social circle would be one, me. And my dog. Two. Cause he's down.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  You guys single like.

• 10:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he's a carnivore. He likes to run. He likes to get after it. He'll attack things, you know? So you see what I'm saying? The world is filled with people. None of them are exactly like you. Don't be frustrated by the differences that you have with other people. Just enjoy them. Enjoy the differences that you have with other people instead of letting them frustrate you. And you will have a much more enjoyable life. And that's what I got.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Still, right? The, especially that, that two-way street kind of scenario where it's like, oh yeah. They don't, and what did he say? People. I get frustrated with people who don't seem to, uh, seem interested in learning. Or even discussing, like, right? You don't want to learn about what I'm interested in and what I've been studying? Like, how dare you, you know? Like, I'm so superior. So it's like, and you brought up the, you know, as an example, whatever, insurance, right? Like, um, it's kind of like, if you're not into insurance. Someone like, hey, bro, there's some new developments in that insurance. You know, those guidelines and these, these regulations, man, you should see this is this and that. And you're like boring people with your insurance knowledge that you've been studying and, you know, seeing on the news, like all this stuff.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  And then saying like, bro, what's wrong with you? Like, this is the future, literally the future. And like, you're not interested. What are you ignorant? You know, but no, no one wants to talk about insurance right now at the freaking barbecue, whatever.

• 11:37Jocko Willink?

  You know, this is, I mean, I'm just guessing. My, recently, my industry has been going through major changes. I spend a lot of time studying what's coming because I want to understand and be prepared. 90% chance this is some AI situation, right? It's a 90% chance. But I remember there'd be some, you know, even in a seal platoon. Like, I'm super into some new radio that came out.

• 11:58Jocko Willink?

  Guys, not the radio, man. They're still in a seal platoon. They're a frog, man. They need to know how to operate radio. They don't care. Like I do.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:04Jocko Willink?

  Some, some new weapon site comes out and the sniper's all fired up. Hey, you guys want, hey, I'm going to get the range for tonight. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen.

• 12:21Jocko Willink?

  Go to jacood underground.com and subscribe and we're doing this. We're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain. As is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you. More control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now.

• 13:02Jocko Willink?

  Where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's jacood underground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us. We can still support you. Just email assistance at jacood underground.com. And we'll get you taken care of. Until then. We will see you mobilized. Underground.