Jocko Podcast 15: Band of Brothers, Henry V, Breaking Rules, Teaching Aggression, Jocko’s BJJ Style, Lazy Habits & Procrastination

0:00:00 - Opening 0:04:40 - Henry the 5th 0:51:12 - Internet Questions / Onnit 0:56:15 - Opinions on "regular" Army Infantry 1:01:51 - Jocko's lessons and breaking his own rules in Jiu Jitsu 1:09:23 - Consoling team members who failed task. 1:14:46 - Advice for entering the Military straight out of highschool. 1:20:28 - Can you teach aggression / Alpha-behavior? 1:30:51 - What Jiu Jitsu style does Jocko have? 1:40:28 - Is Jocko's advice only for driven individuals? 1:53:51 - Advice for breaking lazy habits and procrastination. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast, number 15, with Echo Charles, and me, Jocko Willink.

• 0:09Jocko Willink?

  Good evening, Echo.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:15Jocko Willink?

  I looked around at the men.

• 0:19Jocko Willink?

  I was the only one looking around.

• 0:23Jocko Willink?

  All the other heads were bowed down, all of them.

• 0:29Jocko Willink?

  Praying.

• 0:33Jocko Willink?

  These men were going into battle. Real battle. We could literally hear machine gun fire in the distance where the battle would take place. These men had suffered an incredible number of casualties.

• 0:47Jocko Willink?

  They had every reason to pray.

• 0:52Jocko Willink?

  I was with Charlie Company.

• 0:56Jocko Willink?

  From one of the most hallowed units in the US military, the first of the 506th, The Band of Brothers, made famous by their unbelievable performance in World War II, which was documented in the book, Band of Brothers, which became an HBO mini-series of the same name.

• 1:16Jocko Willink?

  The first of the 506th in Ramadi held the line on that tradition of glory and service and courage.

• 1:25Jocko Willink?

  There's nothing I can say that will do justice to the admiration and the respect that I had for the first of the 506th, and that all of us SEALs had for the first of the 506th.

• 1:42Jocko Willink?

  The SEALs that I sent to work directly with the 506th, they became adopted by the 506th. Red Currie, that's one of the nicknames for the 506th.

• 1:59Jocko Willink?

  And the SEALs that were directly there, working with them, absolutely loved the 506. The 506 represented everything good I can imagine in a military team, or any team. Professional, and disciplined, and motivated, and creative. The leadership in the battalion was absolutely outstanding. The battalion commander, he was the very essence of leadership. He was calm, and direct, and friendly, and open-minded, and respectful, and respected.

• 2:43Jocko Willink?

  And his staff, and the company commanders, and the senior NCOs, they had this unified thread between them, this bond, this connection. And it was that tradition, and that sense of purpose, and that standard of excellence and professionalism, it's hard to describe. But it was absolutely there. And it was as real as the sand, and the bullets, and the guns. And so, there I was, and this was early in my deployment to Ramadi with Task Unit Bruiser,

• 3:23Jocko Willink?

  and I was about to go out into the Malab district with Charlie Company. And their company commander was just an outstanding guy. And I knew that this unit, and this company, and this battalion, I knew it was something special, and I knew that that term, the band of brothers, I knew that that's what they truly were. And we hear it, and I know it's a book, and it's a HBO series, but where does it come from? Now, most people have heard that simple quote.

• 4:06Jocko Willink?

  "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers. For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother."

• 4:19Jocko Willink?

  And I knew what that quote was. I knew where it came from. I was an English major in college and I knew that that was Shakespeare and I knew that that was Henry the Fifth.

• 4:35Jocko Willink?

  And I knew how powerful that quote was.

• 4:42Jocko Willink?

  Now, when you start talking about Shakespeare and you start talking about Henry the Fifth, there's all kinds of different directions you can go.

• 4:50Jocko Willink?

  Because you can go back and you can look at what Henry the Fifth was like in real life and if he was like the leader that Shakespeare made him into in the play and you could talk about Shakespeare himself. And the rumors and the myths and the legends that circulate his life and his legacy. Because there's all kinds of questions about Shakespeare.

• 5:13Jocko Willink?

  I mean, did he actually write all of his plays? Was he more than one person? Was he a soldier at some point? How did he know all this stuff about the military and what it was like to be a soldier? Was his vocabulary ten times what a normal person is? There's all kinds of, like I said, rumor and myth about Shakespeare.

• 5:40Jocko Willink?

  But instead of talking about all that and the conjecture and the hypothetical questions, I would rather talk about something that is known. Something that we have today.

• 5:56Jocko Willink?

  And those are the words.

• 6:01Jocko Willink?

  Words from the play Henry the Fifth, which yes, was written by Shakespeare and I'm gonna tell you, don't be scared and don't be intimidated by that. I mean it. Don't be scared and don't be intimidated by Shakespeare because you don't understand it. Because you can't.

• 6:24Jocko Willink?

  And the fact of the matter is,

• 6:27Jocko Willink?

  No one can. At least at first. It's not possible to understand Shakespeare out of the gate. It doesn't work. It's another language. It's, it's, it is another language. You can't be expected to understand it. It's written in something called early modern English. You know, we speak English. This is early modern English, which is just a transition from something called middle English. And if you go on YouTube and you, you look up middle English and you have somebody read, a real common one is if you look at the Lord's Prayer in middle English, you can barely understand it. Parts of it you can't understand, parts of the words you'll recognize.

• 7:12Jocko Willink?

  But when you get to early modern English, now it's a step closer, but it's still is, there's, there's, it's different, it's a different type of language. And there's archaic words and there's obsolete words. And there's words that Shakespeare just made up. He would make up words factually. And the patterns of speech are different and the idioms are different and the references are all historical. And so if you don't have a grasp on those mythological references and historical references and biblical references, then it doesn't have the meaning that it's supposed to have. So you can't expect just to open up Shakespeare and be able to understand it.

• 7:54Jocko Willink?

  Now, this is actually the opposite of what I often say, because to me, you know, you hear me say all the time that what makes English so important is that you can make things very simple and very understandable by everybody. So then why is it important? Why should we read it? Why should we try and understand it? And the answer to that question is actually very simple.

• 8:20Jocko Willink?

  Shakespeare had something.

• 8:27Jocko Willink?

  He had something. He had some understanding, some knowledge, some insight into the human mind. That is not normal.

• 8:40Jocko Willink?

  It's not normal. He understood people deeply. He understood relationships, he understood leadership, he understood love, and he understood war. And I don't know how he did this, and I don't know why he did, but he did. And on top of that, he had this talent, he had this gift to translate that knowledge into words.

• 9:09Jocko Willink?

  And this is important because in the late 1500s, in the early 1600s, this is a whole nother deal. There's no special effects. There's no close-up shots of an actor, there's no stunt man, there's no CGI.

• 9:27Jocko Willink?

  Everything has to be contained in the words. All the emotion, and all the feeling, and all the action, and all the nature of human beings, it all has to be captured in the words.

• 9:45Jocko Willink?

  And the words that Shakespeare uses are heavy.

• 9:50Jocko Willink?

  And they're also, they're pregnant. They're pregnant with so much more meaning than what's on the surface. They're filled with depth and knowledge that you have to scrape away and uncover to figure out what they're even talking about.

• 10:16Jocko Willink?

  But let's, let's take a look at this. This famous speech in Henry V. The play of the same name.

• 10:29Jocko Willink?

  And I'm gonna lead into it a little bit. Just to kind of at least set the context of what's happening. And as I, as I went into my notes. Just the opening. When you've got this guy that kind of comes out and describes to you what's gonna happen in the play.

• 10:49Jocko Willink?

  And he, and he kind of introduces Henry, they, they call him Harry.

• 10:56Jocko Willink?

  And he introduces him with this line.

• 11:01Jocko Willink?

  "Then should the warlike Harry, like himself, assume the port of Mars, and at his heels, leashed in like hounds, should famine, sword, and fire crouch for employment."

• 11:23Jocko Willink?

  So if you break that down, first of all, he's coming out of the gate. Out of the gate, he's saying Harry is warlike. Which means he's fond of war and skilled in it and equipped for it. And in a more literal meaning, it's saying Henry is like war himself.

• 11:45Jocko Willink?

  Which means he has complexities and the, and the youth and the mayhem and the chaos inside himself. And then it goes on to say that he should assume the port of Mars. Which means he should take on the bearing of Mars, which is the Roman god of war. And at his heels, so, so down now by his feet, leashed in like hounds. So you got dogs, angry dogs on leashes. And those dogs are famine, sword, and fire. And in those days, that was war. Because when you did siege warfare on somebody, and you locked down their castle, you starved them.

• 12:29Jocko Willink?

  And once they were weakened, you burned their castle, and then used the sword to finish them off. So he had those dogs of war at his side, and they were crouched for employment. If you can imagine a pit bull just tense and coiled like a spring, ready to pounce.

• 12:52Jocko Willink?

  That's the opening to describe Henry.

• 13:01Jocko Willink?

  So...

• 13:06Jocko Willink?

  They're at war with France.

• 13:09Jocko Willink?

  And they go to take down this town of Harfleur.

• 13:17Jocko Willink?

  And at this point, this is one of the other really famous speeches from Henry the Fifth. And at this point, they've broken through the walls. And there's a, there's a breach in the wall, so there's a, there's a hole in the wall. But the French are still defending it. The French are still defending it pretty well. And so Henry has a little chat with his troopers, and this is a pretty famous speech. And he says, "Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, or close the wall up with our English dead." So he's saying, "That hole in the wall, charge it. Charge it, and either get through it, or fill up the wall with our dead."

• 14:00Jocko Willink?

  And then he says, "In peace, there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility." So when things are peaceful, being calm and being humble is a good thing. But when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger.

• 14:25Jocko Willink?

  So when war comes, never mind peace and calm, it's time to be like a tiger. And he says, "Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favored rage."

• 14:42Jocko Willink?

  So tense your body and summon up your rage.

• 14:49Jocko Willink?

  Then lend the eye a terrible aspect. Let pry through the portage of the head like the brass cannon. Let the brow overwhelm it. So what he's saying there is, "Furl your brow and let your eye poke through your brow like a cannon, like a brass cannon, sticking out of a porthole."

• 15:17Jocko Willink?

  "As fearfully as doth a galled rock overhang and judy, his confounded base swilled with the wild and wasteful ocean." So he's saying, "Make your brow overhang your eyes like a rock that druts out over the wild ocean."

• 15:36Jocko Willink?

  And then, "Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide. Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit till its full height." So you know what that one is? Bite down, grit your teeth, flare your nostrils, take a deep breath, and hold it in and bring every emotion you have to its utmost. And like a tension on a bow.

• 16:06Jocko Willink?

  On, on, you noblest English, whose blood is fed from fathers of war-proof, fathers like so many Alexanders, having these parts from morn till even fought, and sheathed their swords for lack of argument. So he's saying, "Listen,

• 16:28Jocko Willink?

  you gotta fight. You gotta fight, you, you, you Englishmen, whose blood is from combat-tested warriors like Alexander the Great.

• 16:41Jocko Willink?

  And those men have fought on this soil from morning until night, forever, and they only sheathed their swords when there was no one else to fight.

• 16:55Jocko Willink?

  Do not dishonor your mothers. Now attest that whom you called fathers did beget you.

• 17:03Jocko Willink?

  So don't dishonor your mom. Prove that your father, with his warrior blood, is really your father.

• 17:11Jocko Willink?

  Be copy now to men of grosser blood, and teach them how to war.

• 17:19Jocko Willink?

  And that means be an example to the lesser man, to the weaker man, and show them how to war.

• 17:29Jocko Willink?

  And you, good yeomen, whose limbs were made in England, show us here the meadow of your pasture." So yeomen were basically like the troopers, the foot soldiers and the archers. And he's saying, "Show us how you were born in England and the pasture? That's where you were raised, like a cow is raised on a pasture. Show us what the meadow of that pasture is.

• 17:57Jocko Willink?

  Let us swear that you are worth your breeding, which I doubt not, for there is none of you so mean and base that hath not noble lustre in your eyes." So no matter where these guys are from, no matter what level of society they're, they, they came from, he sees the noble lustre and the righteous gleam in their eyes.

• 18:24Jocko Willink?

  "I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips, straining upon the start."

• 18:33Jocko Willink?

  Now, greyhounds, you know, now we use them for racing. They used to be used to hunt, to run down animals. And a slip

• 18:44Jocko Willink?

  is, and this is one of those things, you've gotta look this up. I didn't know this. I looked it up today. A slip is an old kind of leash that they used for hunting dogs. That when you, it was very, you could, you could basically hit a switch and it would let the dog go. So here are these, picture these greyhounds that are in these quick release leashes, but they're straining on them. Waiting to go on the hunt, to go and chase down their prey. And the next line is, "The game's afoot. Follow your spirit. And upon this charge, cry God for Harry, England and Saint George." So he says the game's afoot, meaning the, the animal that you're hunting, it's out there. Follow your spirit.

• 19:30Jocko Willink?

  And then go and get after it. And as you get after it, yell God for Harry, England and Saint George, and Saint George is the, Saint George is the patron saint of England. The dragon slayer, who was an executed Christian martyr.

• 19:52Jocko Willink?

  So

• 19:55Jocko Willink?

  you can see that there's so much inside these words. And he captures some of the brutality of war.

• 20:07Jocko Willink?

  And so what happens now is they, they get the village that they're trying to take down. And they've, you know, put a lot of pressure on, they've gone through the breach, they've gotten fed back. But now they've got them on lockdown.

• 20:22Jocko Willink?

  And

• 20:26Jocko Willink?

  He's telling them. He tells the governor.

• 20:31Jocko Willink?

  Henry tells the governor that he needs to surrender before Henry loses control of his own men. This is a scary thing. This is like, you know, hey, if you don't surrender now, I'm not gonna have control anymore. Over these guys. These barbarians at the gate, they're gonna come and I'm not gonna have control of them anymore.

• 20:53Jocko Willink?

  He says, "The gates of mercy shall be all shut up and the fleshed soldier, rough and hard of heart," and by the way, fleshed? This is an old word. It means excited by the taste of flesh. So he's saying these soldiers who are excited by the taste of flesh. "In liberty of bloody hand shall range with conscience wide as hell." So in liberty of bloody hand, you know what that means? It means our hands are already covered in blood. I'm gonna, I'm just gonna go forward. I don't care anymore. I don't care anymore.

• 21:35Jocko Willink?

  "With conscience wide as hell, mowing like grass your fresh fair virgins and your flowering infants." So we are going to come. And we are going to mow like grass.

• 21:54Jocko Willink?

  Your virgins and your children. That's savage, right?

• 21:59Jocko Willink?

  He goes on trying to convince them. Again, this is his key point is like, listen, I have control of these guys right now.

• 22:07Jocko Willink?

  And he goes on, "Therefore, you men of Harfler, take pity on your town and of your people whilst yet my soldiers are in my command. Whilst yet the cool and temperate wind of grace o'erblows the filthy and contagious clouds of heady murder, spoil, and villainy."

• 22:32Jocko Willink?

  So he's saying like, "Right now, there's, there's a cool breeze of peace and grace with my guys, but some contagious clouds are coming of murder and spoil and villainy." And, and the word he uses, "heady," is, it means intoxicating, meaning these guys are gonna lose their minds.

• 22:57Jocko Willink?

  If not, why in a moment look to see the blind and bloody soldier with foul hand desire the locks of your shrill, shrieking daughters? Your fathers taken by the silver beards and their most reverent heads dashed to the walls.

• 23:20Jocko Willink?

  Blind and bloody soldiers, that's like blind with rage and blind with murder. And foul hands, he's telling them this. "Your naked infants spitted upon pikes."

• 23:38Jocko Willink?

  And spitted, by the way, is a methodology used in this time period for cooking small games, small animals, and it means you put the animal on a pole from mouth to rectum. And he's saying they're gonna do this to their children.

• 23:58Jocko Willink?

  "Whilst the mad mothers with their howls confused, do break the clouds as did the wives of Jewry at Herod's bloody hunting slaughtermen." So, "break the clouds," that means cry, so the mad mothers are gonna go mad with tears.

• 24:20Jocko Willink?

  Like they did in the Bible in Matthew 2:16, that's what this is referring to, when King Herod ordered the slaughter of all boys under the age of two in Bethlehem.

• 24:32Jocko Willink?

  This is like a threat, that they're gonna kill all the children. So, Henry V is bringing it.

• 24:40Jocko Willink?

  "What say you? Will you yield and this avoid, or guilty in defense be thus destroyed?"

• 24:52Jocko Willink?

  So the French, hearing these pretty valid threats coming, they surrender. They, Henry and the troops take that village. And then the next thing they do is march. And again, I'm moving rapidly through a real war that took place. And they end up settling on the opposing ends of a field, which is now what's becomes the, the famous Battle of, some people call it Asncourt or Agincourt. And the French, they, they got more people.

• 25:37Jocko Willink?

  I mean, it's in France, so they've got more people, substantially more people. And there's a bunch of different, you know, in the books I've read, there's varying numbers, but they definitely had substantially more people.

• 25:52Jocko Willink?

  And Henry, he's talking to some of his leadership, his subordinate commanders. And then they all kind of walk off the stage and he's left there. And he starts talking a little bit about the burden of command and, and some thoughts on leadership, which I was, I found very familiar. So he says, "Upon the king,

• 26:18Jocko Willink?

  let us our lives, our souls, our debts, our careful wives, our children, and our sins lay on the king. We must bear all."

• 26:31Jocko Willink?

  So he knows that the king is responsible for everything. Got to take ownership of everything.

• 26:40Jocko Willink?

  And he, he kind of talks about this. Idea that the king is, it's, you know, it's, it's the expression of it's lonely at the top.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 26:53Jocko Willink?

  He's about to get into that in whatever it was fifteen ninety-nine. Oh ceremony, show me but thy worth. What is thy soul of adoration? Art thou aught else but place, degree and form? So he's saying like, what is all this junk? Besides just social rank and etiquette, what real meaning does it have? Creating awe and fear in other men wherein thou art less happy being feared than they in fearing? So he's saying, look, like these people are scared of me. I'm, I'm actually less happy than they are. They're, they're afraid of me, but I'm less happy because I'm the guy that's scaring them.

• 27:38Jocko Willink?

  I am a king that find thee, and I know tis not the bomb, the scepter and the ball, the sword, the mace, the crown imperial, the intertissue robe of gold and pearl, the farcied title running for the king. The throne he sits on, nor the tide of pomp that beats upon the high shore of this world. So he goes through all the kind of stereotypical things that make you a king. You know, the clothes, the scepter, the crown, all those things. No, not all these thrice gorgeous ceremony, not all these laid in bed majestical.

• 28:21Jocko Willink?

  So not any of those beautiful things, expensive things can sleep so soundly as the wretched slave. So it's the slave who with a body filled and vacant mind gets him to rest, crammed with distressful bread. So he's talking about this fact that the king.

• 28:50Jocko Willink?

  Doesn't get to rest, doesn't get to sleep. When the slave goes home at night, yeah, he's gonna eat the fed with and distressful, basically, that means that they made it themselves. They made it with their own hands. They actually get some satisfaction of making their food and eating it. He doesn't even get that satisfaction. His mind is constantly churning about the fate of the kingdom. And it's actually, interestingly, when I was in, uh, I know we did a podcast here about Sri Lanka. And I talked about me being in Sri Lanka and I, I tried to drag as, because again, I'd never been in combat. This is the mid nineties. And I tried to drag as much knowledge as I could out of the Sri Lankan guys, the Sri Lankan military and the Sri Lankan

• 29:28Jocko Willink?

  special boat service and the special forces guys that we were working with. They were unbelievably combat experienced veterans. But one of the guys that I befriended, who is an army captain and, you know, his,

• 29:44Jocko Willink?

  he was one of those guys, he was a guy that was a good leader. But man, he felt exactly what this guy, what, what Henry the fifth is talking about here. And I remember him saying, you know, he's kind of just having a late night conversation with me because like I said, I was constantly trying to garner information from these guys and learn from them. And, you know, he, cause this guy had been, this guy had been a regular soldier. And then he had been promoted, he'd gone up the ranks and he said, you know, Jocko, when I was a soldier, meaning when he was just a grunt soldier on, you know, lower enlisted guy, he said, I knew I could survive anything and I knew I could take care of myself and it was actually kind of fun.

• 30:30Jocko Willink?

  And he said, now that I'm a company commander, because now he was actually a pretty senior guy.

• 30:36Jocko Willink?

  He said, it is the most stress and it is the most harrowing thing because I, I'm not worried about myself anymore, but I'm so worried about all these other guys. That's what the worry is. And, yeah, I, uh, I actually got to know that feeling myself.

• 30:57Jocko Willink?

  The leader gets no rest and, and, and what Henry's talking about is that burden of command. That's the same thing that Sri Lankan guy was talking about. You hear me talking about it as well. You know, that burden of command is heavy.

• 31:13Jocko Willink?

  And now, so now, you know, again, I've kind of gone very quickly through what this to get to this point where where Henry the fifth makes this famous speech. And as I said, the English are on one side of the battlefield and the French on the other. And again, this really happened. This is this is factual information and they can hear each other and they can at night they see each other's campfires burning and and the English, like I said, they know they're outnumbered. And finally, one of the leaders, you know, as they're as they're getting ready to go into combat, one of the leaders from the British side, he calls out kind of like wishing that they had more men. And it's interesting

• 31:54Jocko Willink?

  and and it's pretty important to know that, I mean, obviously Shakespeare fictionalized this in many ways, but that speech is actually rooted in a real account. It's rooted in a real account of something that was said and and the account was written by an anonymous chaplain that was like on tour with these guys and he just wrote down what he saw. And in his report, it was the a guy named Sir Walter Hungerford that suggested to the king that it would be nice if they had another 10,000 archers from England that were not doing anything, you know, that are sitting back doing, you know, back in England, sitting in peace and it'd be nice if they had them there. Now, in the play, it's a

• 32:39Jocko Willink?

  character named Westmoreland, who's one of, you know, the the lieutenants or the one of the subordinate leadership of Henry the fifth. And he says, Oh, that we now had here but one 10,000 of those men in England that do no work today. So he's saying the same thing. He's like, Listen, here we are about to go to battle. We're completely outnumbered. And

• 33:09Jocko Willink?

  Be nice if we had some of those other guys that are in England right now that are sitting in bed that are doing nothing. And so, so now, King Henry responds, and again, this is, this is in the same vein that was documented by this anonymous chaplain. And of course Shakespeare wrote it, so it's gotta be, it's a lot more impactful, but the message is the same. And I'm gonna go through this once and kinda break it down, so, so that we can understand what the meaning of these different words are, before I just roll through it. So, when he say, you know, this guy says, you know, if only we had more guys. And King Henry says, "What's he that wishes so?" Meaning, who just said that?

• 33:53Jocko Willink?

  He said, "My cousin Wes Morland." "No, my fair cousin. If we are marked to die, we are enough to do our country loss. And if to live, the fewer men, the greater share of honor." So he's saying, "No, listen, if we're gonna die, we got plenty of guys here to die for our country. But if we're gonna live, and if we're gonna win, the fewer men we have, the better. Because that's more honor for us." "God's will, I pray thee, wish not one more man." He doesn't want anybody else.

• 34:35Jocko Willink?

  "By Jove, I am not covetous for gold, nor care I who doth feed upon my cost." So, he doesn't care about gold, he doesn't care who he feeds and who, who eats off of his check that he's cashing. "It earns me not if men my garments wear." Meaning, he doesn't people, he doesn't care if people are either taking his clothes, or if they're wearing his royal colors, he doesn't care. Doesn't care about any of that. "Such outward things dwell not in my desires." So those things don't matter to him. "But, if it, if it be a sin to covet honor, I am the most offending soul alive."

• 35:21Jocko Willink?

  So if it's about honor, and if it's a sin to want honor and want glory, then he's the guiltiest person of them all. "No, faith, my cuz, wish not a man from England. God's peace, I would not lose so great an honor as one more man. Methinks would share from me for the best hope I have. Oh, do not wish one more." So he's just going off like, "No, we don't want anyone else. I don't want to share my honor with anyone else.

• 35:55Jocko Willink?

  Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host, that he which hath no stomach to this fight, let him depart. His passport shall be made, and crowns for convoy put into his purse."

• 36:12Jocko Willink?

  So he's, "Okay, you know what, Westmoreland? As a matter of fact, tell everyone that anybody that doesn't have the guts or the stomach to stand here with us and fight,

• 36:27Jocko Willink?

  tell them, I'll give them a passport and I'll give them money to pay for their trip home. We would not die in that man's company that fears his fellowship to die with us."

• 36:42Jocko Willink?

  He doesn't want to die with anybody that fears the duty, that's what they mean by fellowship, the duty to die with us.

• 36:52Jocko Willink?

  This day is called the Feast of Crispian. So Crispian, this is actually alleged twin brothers, interestingly. Crispin and Crispian, twin brothers, they helped the poor and they preached Christianity, and they were tortured by a Roman governor, and they were thrown into the river with millstones tied around their necks, and they survived. And when they survived that, they pulled them out of the water and they beheaded them.

• 37:25Jocko Willink?

  They were venerated and they became saints on October 25th and that's called Saint Crispin's Day. Sometimes it's called Saint Crispian's Day, but that's what it is.

• 37:36Jocko Willink?

  So this day, this is October 25th, when they're about to fight. He says, "This day is called the Feast of Crispian. He that outlives this day and comes home safe will stand a tiptoe when the day is named and rouse him at the name of Crispian." So anybody that, anybody that lives through this day and comes home safe when it's gonna be Saint Crispin's Day, they're gonna get on their toes, they're gonna be so excited about it.

• 38:05Jocko Willink?

  "He that shall see this day and live old age will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbors and say, 'Tomorrow is Saint Crispian.'" So again, anybody that lives through this is gonna be going to their neighbors and say, "Hey, tomorrow's Saint Crispian's Day."

• 38:22Jocko Willink?

  Then, "Will he strip his sleeve and show his scars and say, 'These wounds I had on Crispin's Day.'" So he's gonna be at their feast, he's gonna roll up his sleeves and he's gonna say, "You see these scars? These are what I got on Crispin's Day."

• 38:41Jocko Willink?

  "Old men forget, yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember with advantages what feats he did that day." So he's saying, "Everything gets forgot, right? But the old man will remember the glory days of that battle and what he did. It will be the highlight of his life."

• 39:06Jocko Willink?

  "Then our names, familiar in his mouth as household words, Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter, Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester, be in their flowing cups freshly remembered." So all their names are going to be remembered.

• 39:29Jocko Willink?

  This story shall the good man teach his son. And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by, from this day to the ending of the world, but we in it shall be remembered. So he's saying, "Look, this is a story that good men are gonna tell their sons. And they're gonna forever remember on this day, till the ending of the world, what we did.

• 39:59Jocko Willink?

  We few, we happy few, we band of brothers, for he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother."

• 40:09Jocko Willink?

  And that one doesn't really need an explanation.

• 40:16Jocko Willink?

  But we sure do hear about brotherhood a lot.

• 40:21Jocko Willink?

  Be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition. So, no matter where you're from, no matter what you were like, no matter what kind of a person you were, today, when he says gentle his condition, that today will make you a gentleman, today will make you a man.

• 40:43Jocko Willink?

  And gentlemen in England now abed. So guys that are back in England right now, sleeping, shall think themselves accursed, they were not here. And hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks that fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day. So, like I said, anyone that's home in England, and that word abed, it's like implies being lazy and sleeping, they're gonna curse that they weren't there. And they'll know that they weren't real men. And I mean, he used the word manhood, which implies, you know, testicular fortitude.

• 41:24Jocko Willink?

  They didn't have the testicular fortitude to fight.

• 41:32Jocko Willink?

  And that's, that's the speech with the understanding. And I haven't even gone all the way. I mean, I didn't go to break down each and every word and the depth and meaning behind them because they are so impactful.

• 41:53Jocko Willink?

  And if you go and you read, you can get like a translated modern version. Um, that kind of dumbs down the language and that's okay. But I'm telling you, having done both, when you do that, that's like, compared to actually doing the work and studying and figuring out what it all actually means. If you just take a dumbed down version, it's like Diet Shakespeare or Shakespeare light. It's, it's actually worse than that. It's like, it's like firing a cap gun versus firing a real gun. It, it kind of looks the same and it might even sound a little bit the same, but one of them will kill you.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:33Jocko Willink?

  And the other one just goes bang.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Yep, it's not as heavy.

• 42:37Jocko Willink?

  And what's really bizarre, and this is, I think, actually, uh, this is really strange. If you go on YouTube

• 42:48Jocko Willink?

  and you look up

• 42:51Jocko Willink?

  Henry the Fifth Saint Crispin's Day Speech, right? If you look it up, you'll get these classically trained actors, famous, I mean, famous actors doing this speech.

• 43:09Jocko Willink?

  And in my mind,

• 43:14Jocko Willink?

  they don't get it. They don't get it right. And I, you know what? I know I'm a nobody. I know I'm just some guy and these people are people that studied Shakespeare and did it on stage and all this, I'm, I'm just an ignorant, uh, you know, wretch from the trenches and I don't understand Iambic pentameter and all the other little details. But I'm telling you, I don't think they get it. And when I watch the professionals do this, I don't think they get the emotion. I don't think they understand the leadership. I don't think they get the fear and the blood and the death. And I don't think they understand war.

• 44:00Jocko Willink?

  And when these actors

• 44:04Jocko Willink?

  take these great words that are crafted brilliantly and they try and say them like leaders, to me, they still sound like actors.

• 44:19Jocko Willink?

  They don't sound like men that have fought, they don't sound like men that have seen battle, and they definitely don't sound like men that have seen war.

• 44:30Jocko Willink?

  I think Henry V would have sounded different.

• 44:37Jocko Willink?

  This is what

• 44:40Jocko Willink?

  I think would be closer to what Henry V, a combat leader, would have sounded like. As he

• 44:52Jocko Willink?

  as he answered some, one of his subordinate leaders out there in the crowd saying that, "We need more people, we need more men."

• 45:00Jocko Willink?

  I think this is what he would have sounded like.

• 45:04Jocko Willink?

  What's he that wishes so?

• 45:08Jocko Willink?

  My cousin, Westmoreland?

• 45:11Jocko Willink?

  No, my fair cousin. "If we are marked to die, we are enough to do our country loss. And if to live, the fewer men, the greater share of honor. God's will, I pray thee, wish not one more man.

• 45:31Jocko Willink?

  By Jove, I am not covetous for gold, nor care I who doth feed upon my cost. It earns me not if men my garments wear. Such outward things dwell not in my desires. But if it be a sin to covet honor..."

• 45:53Jocko Willink?

  I am the most offending soul alive. No, faith my cuz, wish not a man from England, God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour as one man more methinks would share from me for the best hope I have. Oh, do not wish one more. Rather, proclaim it, Westmoreland! Through my host, that he which hath no stomach to this fight, let him depart. His passport shall be made, and crowns for convoy shall be put into his purse.

• 46:33Jocko Willink?

  We would not die in that man's company that fears his fellowship to die with us.

• 46:43Jocko Willink?

  This day is called the Feast of Crispian. He that outlives this day and comes home safe will stand a tiptoe when the day is named and rouse him at the name of Crispian.

• 46:59Jocko Willink?

  He that shall see this day and live old age will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours and say, "Tomorrow is Saint Crispian."

• 47:10Jocko Willink?

  Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars and say, "These wounds I had on Crispin's day."

• 47:22Jocko Willink?

  Old men forget. Yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember with advantages what feats he did that day.

• 47:36Jocko Willink?

  Then shall our names, familiar in his mouth as household words, Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter, Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester, be in their flowing cups freshly remembered.

• 47:55Jocko Willink?

  This story shall the good man teach his son. And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by From this day to the ending of the world But we in it shall be remembered.

• 48:11Jocko Willink?

  We few, We happy few, we band of brothers.

• 48:18Jocko Willink?

  For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother. Be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition.

• 48:32Jocko Willink?

  And gentlemen in England now abed Shall think themselves accursed they were not here And hold their manhoods cheap Whaz any speaks that fought with us Upon Saint Crispin's day.

• 48:54Jocko Willink?

  Now that is a speech. And that is, like I said, there's a lot more to it than what I covered. There's so much depth there. And that's why it's lasted the ages. And that's why you hear people talking about brotherhood and this is what they refer to.

• 49:19Jocko Willink?

  And as far as Shakespeare goes, and I talk all the time about getting stronger and faster and getting smarter.

• 49:32Jocko Willink?

  And stronger and faster, that's,

• 49:37Jocko Willink?

  I mean, that's pretty straightforward. How do you get stronger and faster? You lift weights, you work out, you do your calisthenics, you do physical activity to get stronger and faster. But how do you get smarter?

• 49:51Jocko Willink?

  Well, this is one way to get smarter.

• 49:55Jocko Willink?

  You go out and you find something that you do not understand and you gain understanding of it.

• 50:03Jocko Willink?

  Words you don't know and phrases you don't know and concepts you don't know. You find them and you learn them. You teach yourself. The resources are there.

• 50:18Jocko Willink?

  And by the way, you know what? It's free. There's no gym fees, there's no equipment to buy. You can get all of Shakespeare, his entire canon on the internet for free. It's at the library for free. The only thing it does take and the only thing it does cost is just a little something that we call discipline, right? To get in there, to open that book, to challenge your brain in order to free your mind.

• 51:00Jocko Willink?

  So that's Shakespeare, that's Henry the Fifth, and very impactful. And definitely a classic representation of the Band of Brothers that I had the honor to work with in Ramadi, Iraq in 2006, the first of the 506. And I guess it is time for questions from the interwebs. And speaking of the interwebs. And if you want to support this podcast, you can get some supplements from JacoFuel.com.

• 51:45Jocko Willink?

  You can get some gear and clothing from OriginUSA.com. You can get a bunch of cool t-shirts and whatnot from JacoStore.com. And you can check out my leadership consulting company at EchelonFront.com. And everything is available at Jaco.com.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Yes, if you would like to support this podcast in a painless way, would you call it painless?

• 52:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  Seamless.

• 52:11Jocko Willink?

  Seamless and painless.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  Quasi seamless. Instead of going straight to Amazon.com, go to JacoStore.com or JacoPodcast.

• 52:18Jocko Willink?

  So if you buy a TV, if you buy a flat-screen plasma TV for $800, right? And you could do it through, you do it through, you click through JacoPodcast.com?

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Or JacoStore.com, sure.

• 52:31Jocko Willink?

  Or JacoStore, then the podcast gets supported financially.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it gets like, you know, a little, little something.

• 52:38Jocko Willink?

  That's cool. It's better than nothing.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's yeah, and a- actually, Amazon pays us.

• 52:43Jocko Willink?

  Because, because, yeah, that's cool. Because it takes time to do the podcast.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:48Jocko Willink?

  It takes preparation to do the podcast.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know what? I'm gonna be honest, bro, I'd do it anyway.

• 52:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Obviously, I think you would too, but

• 52:56Jocko Willink?

  Well, we did it.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  But people ask though. They're like, hey, this is great. Like, some people, they'll, they'll sign up. Some, I guess, other podcasts, they'll have situations where you can sign up and just enter your credit card and it'll take out like a dollar a month or something.

• 53:06Jocko Willink?

  Well.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  As like a thing. This guy, um, I for- totally forget his name. Such a cool guy. Anyway, emailed me and told me that. I was like, dang, that's solid. But nonetheless.

• 53:14Jocko Willink?

  Should we do that?

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Uh, I don't know if it's necessary. But, I don't know. Hey, I think we're just-

• 53:20Jocko Willink?

  Maybe we'll research that.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:22Jocko Willink?

  Cause I know, people are always saying, hey, how can we support? Cause people are getting value. And when they get value, they wanna give value. They wanna give you something back, which is awesome.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:31Jocko Willink?

  I appreciate that. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah, I mean, the prep notes today were seventeen pages long, working on for the past few days.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:40Jocko Willink?

  Getting ready. You know, that's like a term paper in college. You know, those grinders? Total gut check.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's like a four hundred level term paper. My term papers are one page.

• 53:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  One page.

• 53:52Jocko Willink?

  College athlete over there. And, uh, oh yeah, one more thing about, about Amazon. Somebody hit me up on Twitter and said, hey, you need to say on your podcast that you have your, your book, Extreme Ownership, is an audiobook.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  Audiobook, yeah.

• 54:06Jocko Willink?

  And what's, what I think is cool about it is Leif, who wrote the book with me, he's another SEAL. He worked with me in Ramadi. And he and I are the ones that read it. So we each wrote chapters. We each wrote half the chapters and we reread it. So, you know, if you're used to the Jocko podcast voice, yeah. And, and you know, Leif was on the podcast, obviously, podcast number eleven.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:31Jocko Willink?

  So, uh, yeah, so get, you can get the audiobook and you got another, it's eight hours long. It's no joke. If you had a long drive.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  Eight hour drive?

• 54:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, if you got an eight hour drive.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  San Francisco from San Diego.

• 54:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, it's one of those drives.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  It's good. Okay. Yeah, so jacastore.com.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  JacoPodcast.com

• 54:52Jocko Willink?

  Alright.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  Then on it, O-N-N-I-T dot com.

• 54:55Jocko Willink?

  Thanks, everybody.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  Slash Jocko. Thank you. Alright, Internet questions. First question.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Kind of a paragraph with a question.

• 55:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we've got some long questions.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Jocko, I'm just curious about your opinions on the regular Army infantry. It seems like nowadays, the regular infantry is almost looked down upon from the regular public and every prior military public speaker. I almost feel like we're looked at like we're just bodies that held ground and absorbed attacks and made no real impact on the war. I'm almost hesitant to ask because I'm not sure if I can or I'm not sure if I'm in denial or if it's just pride. I served with some fantastic warriors and I don't want those heroes to be looked over in history because they were regular grunts. So I'd enjoy your opinions on this matter and if you could enlighten me on how infantry divisions are looked at

• 55:52Speaker 01

  from other groups and organizations.

• 55:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, um, the, I'm, I'm

• 56:02Jocko Willink?

  this question, you know, it bothers me. And it bothers me because if you couldn't tell from the opening that I did tonight, talking about the first of the 506, and I would tell you the same thing about so many other units that we have the utmost respect and admiration for what we used to call conventional forces, what they're now called general purpose forces, but it's the Marine Corps, the US Marine Corps, the US Army, their, their regular infantry, their ground pounders, their grunts. And we, like I said, the guys in my task, you know, the guys I know in the SEAL teams, we have nothing but respect and admiration for the ground pounders, for the grunts.

• 56:47Jocko Willink?

  And from my position, you know, having been in Ramadi with the 228, which was a reserve unit from Pennsylvania, the Iron Soldiers, those guys were outstanding, outstanding. And then they turned over with the 110A D and you've heard me talk about them and the battalions that were attached to them. Those guys were just they, all of them, I mean, they were just so professional, so brave. And of course, Special Forces and SEALs and Rangers and Marsoc and AFsoc, for whatever reason.

• 57:19Jocko Willink?

  Special operations gets attention, right? I mean, the name is special operations. So it gets this attention. I'm not 100% sure where it comes from, or where it started, or whatever. But there's something about that the public and the media.

• 57:35Jocko Willink?

  And I don't know, the media feeds the public and the

• 57:39Jocko Willink?

  the public feeds the media and the media feeds the public. So like, the public wants to see stories. So the media produces stories about the special operations types. And then it goes into a vision circle, a vicious circle, and they just make a bunch of new stories about it. And so, you know, it's like this little mystique or whatever of special operations, probably that's, that's, that's having that impact. But let me tell you, just for everybody, for anyone that's on that's not been in the military, that has that, you know, thinks, oh, the special operations guys must be more, you know, elite or do more dangerous stuff. Wrong. Wrong. Do they do danger stuff? Yes.

• 58:20Jocko Willink?

  But, you know, I've been all, and when I was in Iraq, my first deployment to Iraq went all over Iraq. It's back second deployment stayed in Ramadi. But I during that time saw the conventional units, the general purpose forces, the ground pounders, the grunts, the Marine Corps.

• 58:38Jocko Willink?

  And not just them, but I talked about this last time, the, the logistics folks, I mean, so it's everybody that are out there, they're living in forward operating bases. They're living in combat outposts in the middle of cities, you know, small groups out there eating MREs. Just living in really tough conditions, doing daytime patrols in horrible areas, working with Iraqi soldiers. Uh, you know, like I just said, doing these logistics runs, you know, these are where you get blown up with an IED. These are where you get ambushed. I mean, this is what they did all the time, every day. This was their job, even like the mine clearance operations. You know, mine, you're going out and you're going out to go and get blown up. Or try and look for things that are going to blow you up. And, and you know, for sure, you've got some guys that are in the big mine protected vehicles.

• 59:22Jocko Willink?

  But when we were in Ramadi, there was a Marine Corps unit that would follow behind those guys, sometimes an army unit that would follow behind those guys, infantry guys, just out there getting after it. And so.

• 59:32Jocko Willink?

  What do we think of that? I mean, I have just admiration, respect, and just utmost, the utmost. I hold those guys in the highest esteem because they held the line. So, to that guy out there that asked that question, believe me, anybody that's been in combat and knows what you guys do. And I spread that word all the time. You listen to any, even if you read, if you read Leif and I's book, I mean, we talk about that in great detail, about the respect and admiration we had for, for the general purpose forces, the grunts, the ground pounders, the bravest, the most professional, the most dedicated people that I could ever imagine.

• 1:00:15Jocko Willink?

  And I was absolutely honored and everyone in my SEAL Task Unit was honored and humbled to have served with such brave warriors. So, that's how I feel about our US military.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  Next question.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  So Jocko posted a Twitter post, Instagram.

• 1:00:44Jocko Willink?

  Both, both.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  Twitter and Instagram post of a picture, black and white, strangely.

• 1:00:49Jocko Willink?

  That's sort of my gig.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're thinking, of just the mats. And I think there were some ambiguous figures of him with Dean, right, teaching somebody? Anyway.

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  He said, talked about he learned a lesson or something like that. Anyway, so the question is, Jocko, what lesson did you learn for the thousandth time? Because he said, he said that.

• 1:01:10Jocko Willink?

  It was.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  In training with Dean the other day. So what was that lesson?

• 1:01:14Jocko Willink?

  The lesson was rules, rules must sometimes be broken. So, let me, let me give you the quick story for, for those of you that are jujitsu players. I will indulge you a little bit with some jujitsu. So, Friday night training, and Dean and I usually train hard on Friday nights. And we had, we had a war. We had a little death match on Friday. And it started off, we went probably, I don't know, five, six, maybe seven minutes. And he got me, got me in a little, got me in a little situation that forced me to submit. And then we, I was like, all right, let's go again. And so we went again and I, and I wore him down and I got the better of him. And actually.

• 1:01:56Jocko Willink?

  The the deeper water I take him into, the better things get for me, right?

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:02:01Jocko Willink?

  Uh, so I warmed down and I got a hold of his arm. And I had him in a, I had him in a compromised position for probably five minutes. And you know, he and he at the last moments, good, great timing and he got out.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  Arm bar?

• 1:02:23Jocko Willink?

  Uh, it was a straight arm lock. And, uh, so he got out and we got out, he was done. He was like, yeah, I'm done. I mean, he got out of it, but he was done. So Jocko got a little moral victory, right? And then I kind of antagonized him a little bit, which is what Dean and I do. We, we instigate and we antagonize each other. And so I antagonized him a little bit about, you know, oh, you don't want to train anymore. Oh, cause you're too, you're too broken down. You know, I'm going to stay here and train more. You can go home and, you know, have a glass of warm milk or whatever, you know, just giving him a hard time. So, so, you know, inside and I failed to recognize this inside psychologically, he was, he was not happy about that. And so Saturday, he's like, hey, you know, let's train.

• 1:03:07Jocko Willink?

  And so I, I missed that. I missed that. It's a cue. That's a red flag.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:12Jocko Willink?

  So when I showed up, you know, he says, oh, you know, let's just work some moves and we went over some stuff and working some other people and, you know, we're just kind of, we're very relaxed, laid back. There's no class going on. We're just, just relaxing.

• 1:03:26Jocko Willink?

  And I said, hey, man, I gotta leave at such and such a time. I go pick one of my kids up. He goes, yeah, yeah, no problem. He goes, I gotta leave too. So now I think he's got to leave. So I, I'm actually thinking like, we might get a light roll and that'll be it. You know, maybe like two, five minute rounds. So, and he's got the, you know, the nice guy face and all that stuff that he's given me. So anyways, I said, all right, you know, we worked on some stuff and he says, all right, let's roll real quick. He even threw that out there. Like it was just going to be a quick roll. Yeah, just a quick roll. So I'm thinking, I'm thinking two or three, I'm literally, I'm thinking two or three minutes, like to go over maybe and try some of the stuff we were just, we were just drilling a little bit. No, he comes full on. I mean, and it, and it, and it was disguised full on. So he didn't, you know, get on, but he just went very sternly.

• 1:04:12Jocko Willink?

  And, and passed my guard really quick. And then, and actually. You know, you and I were, had discussed this mount escape that I had done to him the other day. And I was actually like, I don't really care if he mounts right now. I've got this new escape and I'll just use that. And he aggressively mounted and he aggressively went for this move that we call the snow angel. Which is when you get the person's arms up like a snow angel, like up above their head from the mount and it's just horrible. Pin there, yeah. And they're pinned there. Yeah, way above. You have no leverage. You can't move. And so not only get me in snow angel, you got me in double snow angel. So both my arms are stuck up there. Now, what, what was bad about this was there was a moment.

• 1:04:57Jocko Willink?

  Okay. And this was, this is the rule that I learned because after we broke it down. So Dean kept me there for, you know, probably seven minutes. In, in double snow angel, which is just a nightmare because he's not just holding me there. He's like saying things, you know, he's antagonizing me. And I'm sitting there just wanting to kill him. And I forget, I actually forget how it ended. I don't remember if he went for an arm lock and he got it, or if he went, I got out. I forget how it ended. Cause it's kind of a big blur, which most of my rules are. But anyways, the rule is, and I don't want to go into too much detail. Because just because it'll get too technical and too hard to, you know, do through the audio podcast, but.

• 1:05:35Jocko Willink?

  You know, basically I don't let my elbow cross the other person's sternum. I don't let it go across their sternum. Cause if it does, you can get pinned there. You get stuck there. So there was a moment where when Dean was trying to move me into snow angel. Where I should have sacrificed and done like a drastic movement. That's a major breaking of that rule and turned to my side really hard and put my elbow across. His sternum and it would have gotten me out. And as we, as we looked at it. You know, cause once I was out, then we, we went over for a few minutes just to just try and analyze what happened. And I realized that. You know, that I had held on to this rule of mine. Even though part of me was like, you know what, should I try it? And I didn't, I didn't try it.

• 1:06:19Jocko Willink?

  And so then I got in worse position, worse position, worse position. So the lesson learned is that sometimes you gotta break your rules. Now, the, the thing is, it's not just jujitsu, right? It's not just jujitsu, it's about business, it's about life, it's about relationships. It's about not getting stuck in a rut. And it's about being able, cause it's another thing is I, I was in my own head. I didn't detach from the situation, I didn't look at it from another position and say, okay. You know, this is getting worse right now, I just was stuck there mentally. So you gotta think, you gotta, you gotta think about your rules objectively.

• 1:07:02Jocko Willink?

  And I didn't do that. And it's a rule that is, has, has saved me many times. But this time, it, it cost me dearly, dearly. So don't let your rules rule you. You gotta keep ruling your rules, don't let your rules rule you.

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, you, um, another way to kind of look at that is like a black and white mind, you know? Like, don't stick, your mind is more or less black and white, for sure. Uh, well, as far as how you think generally speaking, but don't neglect the gray. There's so much gray in there. And of course, you know, if you have rules and they're solid rules, man, yeah, stick to those rules. But like I said, don't neglect the gray, you know, like you say, you gotta break a rule every once in a while. Don't be just, hey, rules are meant to be broken, let's just break it, not, don't do that.

• 1:07:49Jocko Willink?

  Some people use that as a, uh, some people use that as a, uh, excuse, just do whatever they want.

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:07:55Jocko Willink?

  And they're wrong too, they lack the discipline.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  Next question.

• 1:08:01Jocko Willink?

  Let's do it.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  I'm glad you used that monoscape, by the way.

• 1:08:06Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  Do you have any advice on consoling a member of your team that you're leading? Who knows they're to blame for the project failing or falling through? The person in question is a great worker, but just made an honest mistake that caused the failure of the project. I feel extremely guilty for putting my job at risk and I can't convey to them enough that I understand it was an honest mistake and that I personally failed to communicate enough with them. I think it's a great thing this person is so passionate at their job, but is there any way I can get them to distance themselves? And show them that this one failure is not that big of a deal?

• 1:08:56Jocko Willink?

  So, um, yeah, like, like the question says, it's cool that you got somebody that's passionate, right? That's great. And it sounds like they want to take ownership and that's great too. It sounds like they are having trouble moving on. So in this case, no, no major complications. This is not that big of a deal. You just got to talk them through it. And for me, I would use probably some kind of, you know, some stories. A real simple one is like about parachuting. If you're parachuting, one of the main training points when you're parachuting and something goes wrong is you don't get focused on just trying to fix the bad chute. Because that's what gets people killed. They're looking up, they think maybe they can save the chute.

• 1:09:41Jocko Willink?

  They think they can make it open somehow. And the next thing you know, they hit the ground, right? And they die. So what they do is they, they teach you that, hey, you got a bad chute. You know, you pull your main parachute and it doesn't open correctly. You take a look at it, you go, okay, is this thing going to open or not? You make a decision and then you cut it away and it's gone. And you focus on the next thing, which is getting your reserve parachute to come out to save your life. The one that didn't open doesn't matter anymore. So move on. You can think about it like a uh, like a shooting competition too, because it's the same thing. You, you, when you're shooting, you don't wanna shoot, you don't wanna think about the last shot that you just missed. And you don't wanna think about the next shot that's a hard shot or a far shot, or you don't wanna think about those other shots.

• 1:10:26Jocko Willink?

  You wanna think about the shot that you're taking. That's the one that you wanna think about. And if you're getting caught in the past, it's gonna ruin what you're trying to do in the present. So you, you know, you have to move on. This is something that you just, you know, you gotta explain to your employee that's get, you'd like, listen, I understand that you, that you had a rough time. If you can't let that go, it's gonna screw up the project we're working on now. So let's let that go. Let's move on. So that's what I'd say to him. Say, listen, look buddy. I know this one went bad. I get it. You feel bad. Appreciate it. It's over. It's in the past. Let's take the lessons learned. And we gotta move on. Let's not dwell on yesterday. If we dwell on yesterday, it takes our focus off of today and tomorrow, which are the things we can actually control.

• 1:11:10Jocko Willink?

  We can actually control what we're doing today. We can actually control what we're gonna do tomorrow. We don't have any control over what happened yesterday. That's gone. So what I need you to do is focus on this mission now and making sure we execute it a hundred percent.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  That, that sense of, or that access to control over, over a situation, that's so critical to, to know when you're in that position, because like,

• 1:11:36Jocko Willink?

  To know what?

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  To know that,

• 1:11:38Jocko Willink?

  That you can control it?

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, to have it on the front,

• 1:11:40Jocko Willink?

  What you can and cannot control.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  What you can and can't control, yeah. To, to, like I said, have access to that, because it feels, as far as feelings go, it feels like, you use the parachute analogy. Um, it feels like, dang, there's the problem. The parachute, that's the problem. So all my attention and all my emotional, um, energy and, is, is, is on that. That's the problem. But like how you said, if you just under just focus on the fact that hey, I can't control that bad shoot, that bad shoot is gone. It's, you know.

• 1:12:08Jocko Willink?

  Cut it away.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  And yeah, focus on the thing. But like I said, man, that's the, that's the key right there to understand that, man, you don't, you don't have control over that anymore. We're done with that. We're not doing that anymore.

• 1:12:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  We're doing this new stuff.

• 1:12:20Jocko Willink?

  And you know, I should have said that on the last one about talking about breaking rules. I said business, I said life, I forgot to say combat. But combat's the same way. If you get stuck in a standard operating procedure and you won't see your way out of it, you're gonna, you're gonna pay. And it's the same thing in combat. If you make one bad decision on the battlefield, and now you start dwelling on that bad decision, you gotta forget about that. You gotta move on. You gotta move forward. So, you know, the only reason you look back is to just assess the lessons learned, you're gonna take away from it, and then turn back around and look forward. Don't get sucked into the past and get drowned and pulled back there because you can't control it. You can't change what happened. Move on, buddy.

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  That other question, the black and white mine one, um, are you breaking your own rules? Your one rule?

• 1:13:02Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  Kind of like, um, on, on Ghostbusters one, don't cross the streams. You ever watch Ghostbusters?

• 1:13:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:10Speaker 01

  Same thing, man.

• 1:13:11Jocko Willink?

  But then they had to eventually.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  Right. They had to cross the streams, streams to kill that, the demon.

• 1:13:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Demon lady.

• 1:13:17Jocko Willink?

  You're reaching, man. I think you actually intentionally tried to do this. That was a little reach. That was a little reach.

• 1:13:23Speaker 01

  No, those are understandable terms.

• 1:13:26Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  Jocko.

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  What's the best advice heading into the military, straight from high school?

• 1:13:41Jocko Willink?

  And this, this question is actually from, uh, my brothers from down under Kane Dover and Nicholas Bennett. And they've been, uh, they've been down there in Australia getting their, getting their 4 a.m. wake up challenge on for about, I don't know, 35 or 40 days there at this point. And what's cool, what's been cool is hearing their feedback as they've kind of turned their lives around and they're getting all the stuff done. And actually, you know, it was hilarious. He sent a, one of them said a tweet with a picture of a text conversation with some company that they were trying to work with. And it said something like, The time on the tweet was, you know, 5:01 in the morning or something like that. And, you know, he said, hey, are you still offering blank or some program or whatever?

• 1:14:24Jocko Willink?

  And then the response was, yes, we are still offering that. And then, and then the, you know, reply was, okay, I'm really interested in accessing that program or whatever. And the response was, okay, but don't text people at 5:00 AM. And then the response to that was, okay, wake up earlier.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:43Jocko Willink?

  Which I thought was classic. So those guys are rocking. It's very cool to see. So, and it's actually one of the, and I forget which one of them, one of their brothers is going in the military, which is awesome. Very cool to see the Australian military. Work with them a little bit. I actually worked with them on a small level a lot, meaning that I worked with a couple of their soldiers a lot over the years, but I never worked with them in a big unit, but they were great guys. Uh, here's a couple real simple things, and I'm assuming that he's going to some kind of army or some kind of ground force. He's gonna be a trooper on the ground. Obviously be in shape, do runs, do pushups, do situps, do pullups. I would say be ready to march in boots. That's one of the things that you do

• 1:15:23Jocko Willink?

  in any infantry unit that is shocking to civilians is putting on boots and putting on rucksacks and walking long distances.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  Why? Do your feet get like mangled up?

• 1:15:35Jocko Willink?

  Uh, it's, it's just a different kind of exercise. You know, we talked about this before. Hump a ruck, man. You gotta just put on a ruck and hump a ruck and you gotta wear whatever footwear they're gonna supply you. Try and get the closest thing to that and get your feet ready for it so that you, so that you don't get your feet destroyed. Be comfortable in the water. So most military has some kind of water testing, you know, where they're gonna throw you in a pool or whatever. Uh, you know, go in with a normal haircut. It's not gonna make that big of a deal because, you know, they're gonna shave your head within moments of showing up. So that's not that big of a deal, but uh. Detach, okay, you're gonna get in these crappy situations where people are yelling at you, they're making you do a bunch of stuff. Just detach, just, just detach and watch it, cuz the drill instructors are hilarious.

• 1:16:20Jocko Willink?

  And if you're, if you're getting, if they're in your face, you can be like, damn, this is harsh. But if they're in your face, but you're watching it from a, a free place of mind, it's so awesome to watch and it's so fun. It's so easy to understand what they're doing. You know, you gotta remember they're not gonna kill you in training. Uh, and, and enjoy it. I had fun, I had fun in all my indoctrination courses, which is, you know, your, all your courses where you're getting treated like a recruit. So for me, it was boot camp, it was BUDs, it was airborne school and, and really an OCS too, Officer Candidate School, all those things. I had a great time, I had a, I had a blast at those schools, I had fun getting indoctrinated.

• 1:17:00Jocko Willink?

  I embraced the little rules that they throw outside, I'd embrace them and I'd take them to the extreme. And I, that's, that's how I ended up having fun, fun with it. And then the last thing I would say, and, and I actually, I almost missed this. But this is, this might be the most important thing. Okay, so you're 18 years old, you just got done with high school, you show up in the military and guess what? You start getting a paycheck. All of a sudden, you're the richest guy in the world, cuz at Mickey D's, you were making 7.50 an hour. And all of a sudden, now you're getting a fat paycheck of, you know, $2,200 a month. Hey, but you don't have any expenses cuz you're living in the barracks or whatever, you got all your food coming to you.

• 1:17:44Jocko Willink?

  So what are you gonna do with that money? Well, a lot of guys in the military, what they do with that money is they blow it.

• 1:17:54Jocko Willink?

  They blow it on women and whiskey and they get the big toys, right? They get the massive toys, they get the massive trucks and motorcycles and Harleys and, and everything like that. I'm not, I got nothing against those things, but what you need to do is save your money. And You know, they throw figures around fifteen percent of your paycheck, twenty percent of your paycheck, ten percent of your paycheck, but put that money somewhere long term. Where you're gonna grow it. And then I would tell you, you know, just buy a house. Buy a house and then rent out the rooms to three guys and you sleep on the couch. And have them be paying your mortgage. And when you get them all stabilized and that mortgage is kind of covered, go buy another house. And do that every few years.

• 1:18:39Jocko Willink?

  And there's no reason.

• 1:18:43Jocko Willink?

  To retire from the military and not be completely set where you never have to work again. If you just don't blow all your money. On stuff that you don't need. And I'm not saying you gotta live like a monk. But just don't blow all of it. Blow some of it, don't blow all of it. And that's, uh, that's real important to all the, all the folks joining the military or new to the military. You, you can, uh, you can make that happen.

• 1:19:12Jocko Willink?

  Financial discipline equals financial freedom. There you go.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  Next question.

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  I'm a firefighter slash paramedic. Historically, my profession has always been composed of alpha men.

• 1:19:29Speaker 01

  And all he had to worry about was teaching the skill and not the aggressive side of a person. That is key within this job. We now face a new generation where they're hiring soft, they're hiring softer men. Quote unquote softer men due to upper management and human resources criteria. So when you, when you get these guys, the drive that is needed to do the job is not there. I truly, I truly believe that our profession is a calling. Uh, that goes for all public servants and military alike. So my question to you is, how do you instill aggression or passion? How do you instill it? How do you turn a soft man into an alpha male? Skill can be taught, but aggression and passion is where I come up short and tend to get frustrated because some people don't love this job the way I do.

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  Those soft men will potentially be put in a position where they may have to pull me out of a fire or even save someone's life. And aggression will be key. Call me crazy, but I'd rather have the alpha male that gets after it. On a daily basis to pull me out.

• 1:20:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no doubt about that. You want to have the guy that's gonna be aggressive and make things happen at the moment of truth. So how do you do that? How do you instill that? Well, number one, hard training. You know, you gotta set up training for your people that is tough, that challenges them. And at first, there'll be some, you know, complaining about it and whatever else. But eventually, people start to embrace that hard training and it starts to make them feel proud.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20:57Jocko Willink?

  And that's what you want them to do. You want to push them mentally and physically. And you want to have them understand a very important premise. Because if you take the fact that these guys are, let's call them softer. Well, that means they they want to have like, you know, they want to be safe.

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:21:18Jocko Willink?

  Well, you need to teach these guys that the best way to mitigate risk is to be aggressive, right? If you want to mitigate risk, the best way to mitigate risk is to be aggressive. So example, if you think a fight's gonna happen, what's the best way to, you know, control that situation? It's to be aggressive, to aggressively attack the enemy. If you're in a gunfighting situation and someone's attacking you, what's the best thing to do? To flank them and attack them. You want to be aggressive in a firefight. If you're fighting a fire, you want to fight the fire, right? You don't want to let the fire burn and get out of control. You want to aggressively get the fire under control.

• 1:21:59Jocko Willink?

  So aggression is the best way to mitigate risk. So get these guys in that mentality of where they recognize that the aggression is an important facet of what they're doing. And you want to put them in training scenarios where the aggression wins and passivity loses. You know, you want to put them in a situation where, oh, guess what? You sat back and waited, and now we got the whole building on fire. Or you sat back and waited, and now the people that we could have rescued three minutes ago are gonna die because you hesitated at the moment of truth. So you gotta teach them that aggressiveness over and over and over again. And I think that's, that's, that's what you gotta do.

• 1:22:39Jocko Willink?

  I know that.

• 1:22:42Jocko Willink?

  I, one, one, one SEAL officer that I was working with, we were going through land warfare training and land warfare training is you got machine guns firing, you got rockets going off, you got smoke grenades, it's mayhem. And if you're gonna, you have to grab control of the situation. So you're doing what we call immediate action drills and everyone's shooting live fire and they're maneuvering and you've got to grab control of the situation and you've got to make things happen aggressively through force of will. And so this one SEAL officer who I thought was a great guy, he, he, he wasn't making it happen. He wasn't

• 1:23:23Jocko Willink?

  being aggressive enough. And I said to him, I said, hey, man, you gotta be more aggressive. You gotta get, you gotta get fired up with your guys. And he said, he literally said to me, I remember it like it was yesterday. He goes, I don't know if I can get any more fired up. And I said, okay. Hang with me. And I, just, just, just follow me. And I took command of his squad of eight guys. And I said, just follow me. So we went, we got in a contact drill and the shooting started and boom, I showed him what aggression looked like. Hey, you two set up on this corner right here. You get up there, start laying

• 1:24:05Jocko Willink?

  down fire. You over here, start getting a head count. You're yelling, placing guys, making it happen through force of will. It's being aggressive. And it was, that was all it took. Like, he just didn't understand the difference. He didn't understand what aggression looked like and he didn't understand how it impacted the situation. When you're not being aggressive out on the battlefield, you have no control. Things will, things will just, things will just happen and you will have no control of them. So, and guess what? It's the same thing in life. If you're not aggressively pursuing your goals. Again, that doesn't mean you're aggressively.

• 1:24:47Jocko Willink?

  Confronting people at every turn, no, it means you're aggressively pursuing your goals.

• 1:24:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:54Jocko Willink?

  Through any means necessary. It like again, people get confused and think that I'm in someone's face. Hey, we're doing this my way. No, no, no. You're aggressively pursuing your goals. You're not aggressively pursuing people. You're not aggressively pursuing personalities. You're not aggressively confronting people. You're confronting the challenge, not the people.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:25:12Jocko Willink?

  Do you have to confront people sometimes? Yes, of course you do. But you're aggressively confronting and attacking the challenge. The mission.

• 1:25:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:21Jocko Willink?

  Not the people. But he but anyways, this guy didn't quite understand. So I had to show him. I had to let him see what that looked like, what it looked like to say, you know, hey, take it out right here. Grab a guy and say, set a corner right here. Start moving guys and and have them see that. And guess what? Then you get the other people in the in the squad. Start seeing it and they start active acting aggressively to make things happen. And that's.

• 1:25:48Jocko Willink?

  That's when you do it. That's that's that's what you do. And and obviously what that means is.

• 1:25:55Jocko Willink?

  You as a leader, you have to lead. You have to show these guys the way, how important aggression is and how to do it.

• 1:26:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and kind of in life, I think you you can. Cause again, it's it's one of those things that that sounds pretty simple. It's either be aggressive or you're not being aggressive kind of thing. But it's so hard because like like, for example, if you're in life. A lot of people, they sit back and wait for things to kind of happen like, oh, I'm waiting. You know, you hear people say, it just hasn't happened for me yet. I'm waiting for my big break kind of thing.

• 1:26:27Jocko Willink?

  No, wrong attitude.

• 1:26:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. But when you're in that situation, it kind of seems like that's how the world works. So it doesn't they and a lot of it, you know, it's maybe how people are raised. I don't know. Um. Where if.

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  If you don't know what that is, that if you don't have access to that feeling of being an aggressive person, it's hard to get there. Until, like how you said, if someone shows you like in the exact situation that you're in, and in your case, it was that one specific training situation, you showed them how. So it probably clicked right away, but in life, there's all these situations. So just to be an aggressive person might be kinda hard for someone to access.

• 1:27:06Jocko Willink?

  It is.

• 1:27:07Speaker 01

  Unless they have like a mentor or something, or someone who demonstrated it.

• 1:27:10Jocko Willink?

  It definitely is. It definitely is hard in life. It's hard to show people all the different situations and because then you also can end up with people that are overly aggressive.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  Right, or aggressive on the wrong thing.

• 1:27:20Jocko Willink?

  Aggressive in the wrong direction. You know, I said this to someone the other day, they were talking about being, they're talking about like, I'm super passionate about this. And I said, don't aim your passion at the people.

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:31Jocko Willink?

  Because people find that offensive.

• 1:27:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:33Jocko Willink?

  You gotta aim your passion at the mission.

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  And let, let.

• 1:27:37Jocko Willink?

  I mean, there'll be some collateral encouragement when people see someone that's fired up, when people see someone that's passionate, it get, it makes people excited about the mission as well. But if I hit you with my passion, if I aim my passion at you, all of a sudden, you're intimidated by it, you're turned off by it, you're made defensive by it. So that's what you have to be careful of. You wanna aim your passion, aim your aggression at the mission, not at the people. What you wanna do with people is you wanna influence them. You wanna steer them, you wanna pull them along, you wanna make them, give them the idea so they think that they're moving in that direction on their own. You actually want them to be, never mind think, you want them to move in that direction on their own. That's leadership.

• 1:28:22Jocko Willink?

  And so that's what you gotta do with this aggressive thing. It's definitely a really good question. I would also say, you know, what, what music are they listening to? What, what, what TV shows are they watching? What movies are they watching? Are they watching UFC, straight up? Are they watching people fight? Are you doing any training? Are you hitting bags? Are you throwing some Muay Thai kicks? Are you grappling? You know, do those things raise aggression levels? Are they working out hard? You know, like, no kidding, squatting heavyweights increases your testosterone, period. It really does. So get on the squat rack and start getting that testosterone flowing through your system.

• 1:29:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:12Jocko Willink?

  Let's go to the next question. Be aggressive on that one. Just be aggressive and lead aggressively.

• 1:29:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, funny how you mentioned UFC cuz you can kind of in that regard, you can learn a little bit cuz you can hear like you always hear the coach or whatever yelling saying be first, be first, be first.

• 1:29:30Jocko Willink?

  All kinds of stuff like that, yeah. You definitely don't hear him say, hey, sit back and wait to get attacked.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. They you don't hear him say, okay, be defensive.

• 1:29:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  Or be passive. Yeah, exactly.

• 1:29:41Jocko Willink?

  Doesn't happen.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  Next question, um, some jujitsu talk. What type of style do you play? Aggressive, passive, reactive? Or smash and pass?

• 1:29:55Jocko Willink?

  Et cetera, et cetera. Well, I mean, I've trained with you. You probably you know, have an assessment, your assessment of my game, which will be a limited assessment, by the way. Because the game that I show you is the is the is built to contend with what you bring to the table.

• 1:30:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:14Jocko Willink?

  If you brought us something else, you'd see something else.

• 1:30:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and and I have a little bit beyond that cuz I witness you and Dean all the time, more so before than nowadays, but yeah, I would say my assessment, yeah.

• 1:30:28Jocko Willink?

  Okay, yeah. So you watch me roll with other people and you can see. So you do see that I train different ways with other people.

• 1:30:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, and really, that's really the core of the evaluation is that you you when you roll with people, you it's like you're real, um, it's like variable style, you know, it changes. So and it depends your mood too. Like if you're just messing around with me or whatever, you're like you know, this is kind of weird, but you do this thing that no one really does and you look like you look me in the eye like while you're rolling. It's weird. Because I know you're just messing with me like, oh, like everything I do, you're like, oh, that was cute, kind of kind of an attitude. And then, you know, if I talk too much, um, you know, whatever, then you'll you'll

• 1:31:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:11Speaker 01

  smash and pass. So in regards to these these choices, um, all all of the above, right? So so passive when you're kind of taunting and maybe even learning or not learning.

• 1:31:25Jocko Willink?

  Taunting a style of jujitsu?

• 1:31:27Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, it is. It's your style.

• 1:31:31Speaker 01

  And so you'll be passive, kind of waiting for me to do something. And then if it doesn't work, then you taunt some more. And then, so that's passive. And then reactive is obviously, you know, reacting to anything that I try to do. Aggressive is when either time runs is running short or I talk too much. And smash and pass is the result of that aggressive stuff.

• 1:31:53Jocko Willink?

  In really, in replace of smash and pass, oh, I mean, I think the alternate for me is, is a little something that we like to call the disrespect.

• 1:32:01Speaker 01

  Right, the disrespect.

• 1:32:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, which is when you just completely disrespect the person's guard and just pass and smash them.

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, the disrespect.

• 1:32:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and I think, I think the key point for this, for me, is, is that. I, I know, I can, I agree with you. Like, I have a decent guard. I'm, I have a good top position. Pretty good at guard passing, whatever. I'm not, I'm not great at jujitsu, but I'm decent at some areas. And I'm pretty, one thing I am is I'm pretty comfortable. Like in, oh, just about any situation. There's no situation where I'm, there's no situation where I'm freaked out. Like, I don't mind being in half guard. I don't mind being on a half guard, top bottom. I don't mind being guard, closed, open, whatever. I don't mind being mounted. I can pretty much handle any situation. You know, and again, when you're training with Dean.

• 1:32:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:32:47Jocko Willink?

  It's, you know, you get, you get very comfortable with people because you have a guy that's just a savage. And, um, but, but what's, what's interesting about this is for me. And I, and I talked about this, I mean, I talked about this, there's a dichotomy here, right? Like, if being aggressive is not working.

• 1:33:07Jocko Willink?

  Then you have to try that other game. You know, I always say if you're, if you're trying to pass someone's guard really close and you can't do it, back away.

• 1:33:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:33:15Jocko Willink?

  Because there's an opening there. And it's the same, again, it's the same thing with life, right? If you're beating your head against the wall, try a different route. When there's one door that's closed or heavily defended in combat, go find another door, go breach a window, go find another way. There's an opening somewhere else. And I think that's what my game is.

• 1:33:40Jocko Willink?

  I think that's what my game is, is it's, like you said, variable.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:44Jocko Willink?

  Based on. A, a variety of.

• 1:33:50Jocko Willink?

  Influences, both in my world and in my opponent's world.

• 1:33:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:57Speaker 01

  And surprisingly, and I think that people, a lot of people wouldn't really assume this right away is that you're, um, yeah, sure, you're gonna smash and you're aggressive and kind of rough. A lot, you know, a lot of times, but you're like, um, like a playful jujitsu guy, you know?

• 1:34:13Jocko Willink?

  I was gonna say this, and this is, I think this is important. I had a guy ask me, how hard do you go?

• 1:34:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:34:20Jocko Willink?

  And the answer is very easy. I go just hard enough that I'm staying ahead of the other person.

• 1:34:28Jocko Willink?

  Now with you, so if those of you that are listening on audio, Echo is making a face because there are times when I have to step up my game a little bit and, and put the wood.

• 1:34:37Speaker 01

  Times where it's straight up, that's not true.

• 1:34:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, yeah. But there might be some, oh, you know why? That's because you come in with, you, we, sometimes you come in with a, you know, with an attitude of, yeah, I can see it in your eyes. You're like, today's the day.

• 1:34:54Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:34:54Jocko Willink?

  And you come in there and you got the, the serious look on your face and I, okay, cool. It's gonna be like that, right on.

• 1:35:00Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:35:00Jocko Willink?

  And so then I, yeah, I have to bring the heat a little bit.

• 1:35:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, fully.

• 1:35:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:06Speaker 01

  But that same, and this is the part where I think is kind of, kind of interesting, is that you do, it doesn't seem like a war. Like, it seems like a war, but all within the confines of some silly, not silly, but some game.

• 1:35:20Jocko Willink?

  Well, it is a game.

• 1:35:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, but it's, it's obvious though. You know, like, I, I think that someone who maybe never seen your role or never had that experience with you specifically, they would assume that you're this like heavy-minded guy.

• 1:35:34Jocko Willink?

  That I'm just gonna smash.

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  I'm gonna smash and that, and that I am taking this really seriously, you know?

• 1:35:38Jocko Willink?

  No, I don't.

• 1:35:39Speaker 01

  Some guys are like that.

• 1:35:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's true. It's not that I don't take jujitsu seriously, but jujitsu is fun to me.

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:35:45Jocko Willink?

  It's so fun to me.

• 1:35:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:46Jocko Willink?

  And I think that the better you get, the more fun it gets and the less you have to be like that, you know? In. I don't mind when people come at me like that cuz I still get to do the same thing, you know, I still get to have fun.

• 1:35:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:58Jocko Willink?

  And yeah, no jiu jitsu should be fun.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:01Jocko Willink?

  It really should be fun. The funner it is for you, the longer you're gonna do it for. Now, part of the fun can be submitting people and you get people that that's the only fun that they have in jiu jitsu is when they submit people. And that's not what I'm talking about.

• 1:36:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's kind of.

• 1:36:14Jocko Willink?

  The transitions and the the the flowing and the utilizations of moves and the cool things that happen and you know, sometimes I'll be rolling with whoever and like something just something like someone will do something really cool and you start laughing like, man, that was awesome. That's jiu jitsu, that should be, jiu jitsu should be fun, it shouldn't be this, uh, it shouldn't be. It it shouldn't be, the fun shouldn't come from just submitting people.

• 1:36:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:36:42Jocko Willink?

  That's just bullying, right?

• 1:36:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, in a way, yeah.

• 1:36:45Jocko Willink?

  And you you know, you shouldn't get, you should, at a certain point, you go, you know what, okay, cool, I can tap people out, but let's, let's, let's do this for the reason of the sport itself, the, the, the game itself, which is a fun game.

• 1:36:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know guys who have told me straight up that when they're driving up to the gym, they have anxiety.

• 1:37:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:04Speaker 01

  But anxiety like, oh, how good am I gonna do? Or if they get tapped out, it ruins their day or their week or whatever.

• 1:37:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:11Speaker 01

  But man.

• 1:37:11Jocko Willink?

  I have none of that.

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:13Jocko Willink?

  I'm rolling to the gym, gym, just in totally, totally happy to be, to be getting there and get and get to do something that's so fun.

• 1:37:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I rode with the Chris Martin today for, and he was all, like, you can make jokes, you can talk trash, and you can do all this stuff while you're rolling. And doing that in this playful way, I mean, don't be a dick, you know, but, but, you know, just like, uh, uh, yeah, you can, you can push being a dick sometimes. It makes it more fun, for sure. Like, you can, you know, you can call a move and then do it on the guy if you're better than him or whatever, and it ma- but it makes it fun, though.

• 1:37:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:48Speaker 01

  You know, and me and Chris, we're, we're doing that the whole time. I'm like, oh, yeah, watch this, oh, oh, how's that feel, kind of thing?

• 1:37:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:53Speaker 01

  And of course, that's taken to an extreme cuz I know Chris for a long time, we're friends, but

• 1:37:57Jocko Willink?

  Talking smack.

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  Just a little bit of that makes it more fun, just like if you're playing a video game, just like if you're playing any other game, you just talk some friend, you know, it's, it's part of the fun.

• 1:38:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:06Speaker 01

  And like I said, my original point is I think people wouldn't assume that about you, given how you may come off sometimes. But you're really like that.

• 1:38:15Jocko Willink?

  Hmm. No, I, jiu jitsu's fun to me, no doubt.

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  Fun sports, for sure.

• 1:38:21Jocko Willink?

  Believe it or not, jujitsu, in a way, like when you're surfing in California, there there's a, there's a much harder vibe surfing in California than there is in the mats, for sure.

• 1:38:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:38:34Jocko Willink?

  You know, when, you know, when we're surfing where I surf, like, it's, it's a gang mentality type situation, you know? And so on the mats, it's just so fun to be in a situation, and surfing, you know, leads to fighting often.

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:38:50Jocko Willink?

  And so, but in jujitsu, the fighting is already happening.

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:38:55Jocko Willink?

  So, so it's, you know, you can, you're kind of over it, and now, now we're just, we're already fighting, so now we can just chill.

• 1:39:01Speaker 01

  Right, yeah. Yeah, it's crazy how surfing's like that, right? It's supposed to be this kind of zen thing, kind of.

• 1:39:08Jocko Willink?

  No, it's supposed to, but it's not, it's an aggressive, it's a very aggressive environment.

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  It's like a territorial thing.

• 1:39:13Jocko Willink?

  It's a very territorial thing, yeah.

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:15Jocko Willink?

  And it's kind of cool, I like it.

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  You like that?

• 1:39:23Speaker 01

  Next question. I understand and agree with all your thoughts and principles, however, however, I interpret your concepts for leaders, leading men who are mostly driven, or other leaders who have a desire to make themselves better in maintaining the status.

• 1:39:44Jocko Willink?

  Yep, so, common misperception, right? Is that, you know, the military and the SEALs, I say this all the time, everyone thinks that the military and the SEALs, they think that we're leading Terminator robots, right? And everyone is just driven, and they're gonna get up, and they're gonna do everything, and it's, I just talked about this on the last podcast, it is a bell curve. It is a bell curve, and there's a great bunch of guys at the top of the bell curve that are go-getters, there's a solid bunch of guys in the middle, and there's the lower guys that are bums. And so this interpretation, that the concepts that I talk about are just for leading. These front-running A personalities that just make everything happen? Hmm, not correct.

• 1:40:28Jocko Willink?

  You know, there are SEALs that don't want to work. There are SEALs that want to take shortcuts. There are SEALs that want to skate by. Then you get outside, then you're working with Iraqi soldiers that are unmotivated, untrained, poorly equipped. We gotta work with these guys. We got bosses. I mean, I got bosses in the SEAL teams that are either an egomaniac or that are ultra-risk averse. You could have any of this stuff going on. You can have your guys that are risk averse. You can have guys that are too crazy. You got all, you know what they are? They're humans. They're individuals. They're human beings. And because they're human beings, even in special operations, and sometimes especially in, in special operations, because when you get in special operations, you get guys that

• 1:41:12Jocko Willink?

  have huge egos and attitudes. And so, oh, you think that they just want to do whatever you tell them to do? No, they got their own idea. They got their own method. They got their own plan. They got their own, what they think they're a tactical genius. So you gotta get around that. So what does it mean? It means you have to lead them. And it's the common theme that I'm talking about all the time. What's that mean? You gotta build relationships. You gotta build the trust. You gotta make sure they understand why they're doing what they're doing. You gotta make sure they understand the strategic impact. You gotta empower them. You gotta set a good example. You gotta listen to them. You gotta take input. You gotta give them responsibility. And when I say responsibility, I mean real responsibility. You gotta build them up. You gotta make them better.

• 1:41:57Jocko Willink?

  You gotta show them and let them see, not in a, not in a in-your-face way, but you gotta subtly let them see what self-improvement means to them and how they can better their position and what drive will get them. You gotta give them ownership of stuff. And you gotta let that ownership grow into extreme ownership where they really want to own things. You gotta teach them to lead and you gotta put them in leadership positions and you gotta show your trust by actually following them sometimes.

• 1:42:34Jocko Willink?

  And again, people ask me these questions, you know, I'm a new leader, how do I lead? I got a new person, how do I lead them? It's the same answers, it's the same answers all the time, the principles of leadership. Now, the nuances are there. Yes, the nuances are there. And I have to nuance for Echo that I got a nuance for this guy over here, and I got a nuance for this group over here. The nuances are there, but the basic principles are the same. Am I never, am I gonna, who am I gonna be in charge of that I'm not gonna try and build a relationship of trust with them? Who's that? The answer is nobody, you know? Who is it that I don't wanna set a good example for? The answer is nobody. Who is it that I'm not gonna listen to?

• 1:43:12Jocko Willink?

  If you don't listen to people, you alienate them, you don't wanna be part of the team. I mean, it's, it, things are universal.

• 1:43:19Jocko Willink?

  And again, there's nuances because you might have to make adaptations. And, you know, when we, when we did Battle Leadership with Adolf von Schell, and he talks about distinctly these three different types of commanders, and how the boss gave them each their own little adjusted order, because he was dealing with their personalities. So, yes, you gotta deal with the personalities, but that doesn't mean you're doing something different from the principles.

• 1:43:46Jocko Willink?

  So, when you get, sure, when you get to the bottom of the bell curve, and you might see some people that might need to be replaced, they might need to be removed. But I'll tell you what, most likely, they just need to be led.

• 1:44:06Speaker 01

  The reason that, or I think one of the reasons why the perception is that all your guys are robots, and, you know, I'm gonna give you an order, they follow it. No questions, that is like movies, right? Like, A Few Good Men, remember Jack Nicholson? He's like, people follow orders, or people die. That was his thing, and they say that kind of stuff.

• 1:44:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and, but they do, they do capture it in some Hollywood movies, where they show how mutinies take place, and how things go wrong, and how, you know, the new lieutenant in Vietnam is gonna get fragged by his own people. That stuff's real.

• 1:44:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:42Jocko Willink?

  You know, that stuff's real. So... It's just, it it's it's a misperception. The other the other misperception is because of boot camp. A lot of military movies are they show an they show a significant amount of time in boot camp. But boot camp is a matter of weeks in a career. You know, I think Marine Corps boot camp is thirteen weeks. I think the Army boot camp is ten weeks. Boot camp is a very short period of time in your four year, six year, eight year, ten year, twenty year career. Boot camp is, you know, I talked about the indoctrinational times in the military. They are very short periods of time compared to your whole career. And in boot camp, when your drone instructor says drop down and do pushups, you drop down and do pushups.

• 1:45:24Jocko Willink?

  In boot camp, when your drone instructor says, pick up that, you know, make your bed, you make your bed. When they and if you don't, they yell at you and they yell at you until you do make your bed. So people get that idea that that's the way the militaries run. Yeah, yeah, I would, yep. And that is, it like, you know, a great example is Full Metal Jacket, the movie, which is a great movie. But the boot camp scene is half the movie. But in reality, even if you were a guy in Vietnam, you know, boot camp is thirteen weeks and then you went on to into Vietnam for a year. So it's a fraction of what your real career is like. And and so people get that impression that you're just gonna be able to bark orders and everyone's gonna listen to you. It just doesn't work that way. Yeah. And there's actually, there's a great, there's a great video.

• 1:46:10Jocko Willink?

  Um, it's called Charlie Company in V, uh. Anyways, I forget the name of the video, but it's about a company in Vietnam, Charlie Company. And maybe if you remind me, I'll put it on the on the website. It shows two company commanders. But anyways, to make a long story short, these guys, they they don't like their new company commander. And at first they're resistant to him. And, you know, he says, listen, these guys could gotta learn that they're just gonna have to do what I tell them. And then it fast forwards a couple of months. And they interview him again and he goes, you know, how's everything going? He goes, you know, they get it now. And they realized they just had to listen to me and do what I told them. And then they go out in the field with the guys.

• 1:46:55Jocko Willink?

  And the guys in the field. They're supposed to be doing things and they're just not doing them. They're just, they're literally calling back like, yeah, we did, yeah, we did a patrol.

• 1:47:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:05Jocko Willink?

  They didn't do it. Yeah, we moved positions. They didn't move positions. Yeah, we're gonna do another, you know, another foot patrol tonight. They're not doing it. So he was under the impression that everyone had like buckled to his will.

• 1:47:16Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:47:17Jocko Willink?

  They were just completely snowing him and he had no idea.

• 1:47:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:21Jocko Willink?

  So that's what happens in the military.

• 1:47:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:23Jocko Willink?

  If you don't lead your people and you just order them around and you think that everyone's just this, this, uh, this, uh, how they describe it here. Men who are mostly driven or leaders who have a desire to make themselves better. I mean, i- if anybody in a position with guys like that, it's gonna, the leadership job is gonna be very easy. You just tell them what to do and they do it.

• 1:47:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:47:46Jocko Willink?

  I mean, I could give you example upon example upon example of stuff in the SEAL teams where what I had to do to get people convinced that this was the right thing to do.

• 1:47:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:56Jocko Willink?

  You know, I mean, it is like, you know, a classic example is telling guys, okay, we're gonna take Iraqi soldiers on every operation. You know, so these guys were saying, are you kidding me?

• 1:48:06Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:48:07Jocko Willink?

  They, they just didn't go, hey, cool, Jocko, we'll do exactly what you tell us.

• 1:48:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:48:10Jocko Willink?

  No, they were, what are you talking about? We're not taking these guys out. Why would we do that? It's gonna be risky. These guys aren't trustworthy. They don't, they're not trained.

• 1:48:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:48:16Jocko Willink?

  They had a million reasons why not to do that.

• 1:48:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:48:20Jocko Willink?

  But how do you get them to do it? You explain to them why, you explain to them the strategic importance. You have built trust with them. You tell them that they're gonna take ownership of the Iraqis. I mean, it's everything that I just said. That's what you do. That's a classic example. So. Yes, once again. You have, if you're in a leadership position. You have to lead.

• 1:48:46Speaker 01

  You ever seen the movie Saving Private Ryan?

• 1:48:48Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:48:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was a part in that movie that um that they they weren't down for the orders.

• 1:48:55Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:48:55Speaker 01

  Remember that way? It was kind of like a little pivotal part where they they were gonna go take a a machine gun nest. And they were like, man, we don't have to do this. So they all kind of got together and say, you know, s- seems like unnecessary risk. And he's like, he kind of tripped out a little bit and and kind of forced him to do it. And they were like, all right, whatever, kind of reluctantly. Then one of the guys died and stuff. But anyway, that's an example.

• 1:49:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:16Speaker 01

  Of the movies where they, you know.

• 1:49:17Jocko Willink?

  And and especially, you know, when we were just doing, uh, talking about World War One. That one portion of the book where he says, you know what? We got ordered to do this thing. I didn't feel good about it, but it was an order we were going to do it. So there's examples from the past, especially where, you know, it's definitely was more like that in the past. In World War One, obviously, it was like that. Obviously, it was like that. Unfortunately, it was like that.

• 1:49:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:38Jocko Willink?

  Because it caused people to continue, you know, to execute these operations that were just gonna get people killed. And you know, actually, Leif and I were talking about that last week. Pickett's Charge, Gettys- Pickett's Charge, Gettysburg. They sent the troops up and they got slaughtered. And they came, you know, the the survivors came back and uh, Lee was, you know, basically in tears like, hey, I'm sorry. This happened. I, this was my fault. He took ownership of it. And I hope I'm getting the story right. Um, but

• 1:50:15Jocko Willink?

  but that's the, that's the general, uh, the general gist of the story. But then the, you know, the big story was that the guys were like, hey, we'll go again. If you, you know, because you're such a great leader, we'll go again. And Leif, you know, was kind of like, you know, that's what World War, you know, that's what, that's what happened. That that that shows you that guys were willing. And I said, yeah, but the difference is in World War One, they sent him again. They sent him over and over, you know, Lee was regretting and I'm sorry and I I did something that got you, you know, a bunch of guys killed. It's horrible. In World War One, they're like, yeah, it happened. Going again.

• 1:50:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:51Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah. And that happens again. We're doing it again and again and again. And it's just a.

• 1:50:57Jocko Willink?

  I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll always just be horrified by that and hopefully um man progresses beyond that. And again, part of that is as a person, you have to question. You have to be a rebel. You have to question what people are telling you and why they're telling it to you. If my boss doesn't tell me why I'm doing my operation. It's and I continue to execute it, that's my fault. I need to raise my hand and say, boss, what are we doing? Why are we doing this? I don't understand. You gotta take that initiative. Cause if you're just blindly following orders, I don't want somebody that's blindly following orders. I never want people that blindly follow my orders.

• 1:51:40Jocko Willink?

  I want people that say, okay, boss, wait, why are we doing this? Why is this happening? Cause I want people, I want think, I want leaders underneath me that know how to lead. And you know what? When you build the trust and you build the relationships, those guys will do anything for you. And my guys in my task, they do anything. I mean, I know it. They did over and over again. Did operations that were crazy and hard and dangerous and risky. Never did anyone say, oh, you know, we're not doing this. They said, okay, we understand. What's the mission? All right. So you gotta build that relationship. Again, it's the same basic principles of leading human beings.

• 1:52:25Jocko Willink?

  And that's what you gotta do, but to think that you're just gonna order people to do things is not happening.

• 1:52:32Jocko Willink?

  Long answer to a, to a good question. That was actually interesting perspective. And I know it's a perspective that a lot of people have. People always think, well, you know, you led SEALs and they're elite, so that was easy.

• 1:52:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, but before you said, before you told me, that's kind of what I figured.

• 1:52:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:51Speaker 01

  Last question.

• 1:52:55Speaker 01

  Jocko, any tips for breaking habits of laziness and procrastination? Maybe some good reads on the subject? And this is a question I wish you would have answered for me like 10 years ago. So yeah, any tips?

• 1:53:11Jocko Willink?

  You know, this has definitely been a pretty common question. When people want to know how to stop the laziness and they want to know how to stop the procrastination. And you know, they have some idea in their head, you know, some kind of a vision. What they want to do.

• 1:53:36Jocko Willink?

  But they don't know where to start. They don't know where to start it, you know? They don't know where to start. And so they say, hey, where do I start? And when's the best time to start? And I have a very simple answer for that.

• 1:53:52Jocko Willink?

  Here and now.

• 1:53:57Jocko Willink?

  That's it. You want to improve? You want to get better? You want to get on a workout program or a clean diet? You want to start a business?

• 1:54:09Jocko Willink?

  You want to write a book or make a movie or build a house or a computer? Or put together some mobile application?

• 1:54:20Jocko Willink?

  Where do you start?

• 1:54:24Jocko Willink?

  You start right here. And when do you start? You start right now.

• 1:54:30Jocko Willink?

  You initiate the action aggressively. You go.

• 1:54:36Jocko Willink?

  Cause the idea isn't going to execute itself. And the book isn't going to write itself. And the weights out in the gym, they're not going to move themselves. You have to do it and you have to do it now.

• 1:54:51Jocko Willink?

  And that means you got to stop thinking about it and stop dreaming about it. And stop researching every aspect of it and reading all about it and debating the pros and cons of it. Just start doing it.

• 1:55:08Jocko Willink?

  Take that first step.

• 1:55:12Jocko Willink?

  And make it happen. Get after it. And get after it here. And now.

• 1:55:31Jocko Willink?

  And I think, uh.

• 1:55:34Jocko Willink?

  I think that's all we've got for tonight.

• 1:55:38Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 1:55:43Jocko Willink?

  Thanks, everybody, for. Listening to this. For, uh. For putting those headphones in your ears and pressing play and settling in with me and sending some. Spending a little bit of time in my head. I know it's a little scary in there sometimes.

• 1:56:04Jocko Willink?

  Thanks for the feedback that you give us and the questions you ask us. And thanks for subscribing to the podcast and downloading it and writing reviews and spreading the word. And thanks for buying the book and buying the audio book.

• 1:56:19Jocko Willink?

  And lastly, and most importantly, to everybody out there.

• 1:56:26Jocko Willink?

  Thanks for getting up early. Thanks for getting in the gym. Thanks for getting on the mat. Thanks for getting your grind on at work, getting your head into a book, getting smarter and stronger and faster and better.

• 1:56:41Jocko Willink?

  Thanks to everybody.

• 1:56:44Jocko Willink?

  For getting after it.

• 1:56:48Jocko Willink?

  And so until next time. This is Jocko and Echo.

• 1:56:55Jocko Willink?

  Out.