514: Devastating Loss, and Everyday Combat in Ramadi. With Army Medic, Adam Anderson

>Join Jocko Underground< https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Everyday combat, devastating losses, and the weight carried long after leaving the battlefield. Army medic Adam Anderson shares his raw story of Ramadi, recovery, and the ongoing fight at home — with Ryan Jackson on Canines for Warriors. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 514 with me Jocko Willink.

• 0:06Jocko Willink?

  On 18 July 2006 Lieutenant Blackstone's platoon was conducting census operations in Tamim when they came under a sustained enemy attack. In the initial barrage of gunfire, a bullet ripped through Staff Sergeant Michael Muir's thighs. Pin down behind a five foot wall surrounding the water tower in Tamim, the platoon laid down a furious gauntlet of suppressive fire.

• 0:31Jocko Willink?

  Lieutenant Blackstone and Specialist Anderson realized that Sergeant Muir was unable to move and lying exposed in the street.

• 0:41Jocko Willink?

  They ran out under the hail of enemy fire and pulled Muir to safety. Next, Blackstone and his men attacked from their base of fire and aggressively assaulted the enemy occupied building that was the source of the hostile fire.

• 0:58Jocko Willink?

  Only to have the enemy slip away. Such was the nature of the battle in Tamim against a lethal foe who knew the terrain and would not stay and fight.

• 1:14Jocko Willink?

  And that right there is a little excerpt from a book called Ramadi Unclassified was written by Colonel Anthony Dean and is one paragraph that from that book and it's about a 400 page book and it gives one small example of the incredible heroism that was displayed by troops on the ground in Ramadi on a daily basis in 2006 and that particular unit was Team Dealer, the Death Dealers Bravo Company, 2nd Battalion, 6th Infantry, 1st Armored Division. And this is a company who suffered immense losses during that battle.

• 1:54Jocko Willink?

  And yet, they never hesitated. They never backed down and they continually took the fight to the enemy. And we have had Colonel Dean on this podcast, number 452, and we talked about his book and his experiences as a battalion commander. We've also had heard from General McFarland on this podcast, number 439, and he was the brigade commander in the Battle of Ramadi. We've also heard from some other Ramadi vets. We've had Rob Black and Scott Husing and Greg Knight and Elliot Miller and Joe Hildebrand. We also heard from Ryan Jackson on podcast 491. And he was a squad leader in Team Dealer. And tonight, it's

• 2:37Jocko Willink?

  an honor to have Ryan back. And also, joining him is Adam Anderson, the soldier I just read about, who braved enemy fire to rescue one of his wounded comrades. It's an honor to have you guys with us here tonight. Ryan, Adam, thanks for joining us. Thank you, brother.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Thanks for having us.

• 2:54Jocko Willink?

  Welcome back, Ryan.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, man. Good to see you guys. And just out of the gate, the reason that we're sitting here right now is because of ramadi reunion 20.com. This is a reunion that's taking place January 16th and 17th, 2026, the 20 year, the 20 year anniversary in Fort Plus, Texas. And we got a bunch of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines that are going to be coming to this event. So if you knew anybody that was attached to the 118 for a day, for a week, for a month, for the whole time, and they served in the Battle of Ramadi, check out ramadi reunion 20.com. If you know anyone that was killed there and their

• 3:41Jocko Willink?

  families might want to go, tell them to check out ramadi reunion 20.com. We're trying to get as many people down there as we possibly can. And for me, um, you know, getting you guys on here, we were just before we even hit record, you know, Adam, you, you were talking, you were saying like, you like hearing from Grant on here. And I, I was telling you, like, what, when we looked at you guys and what you guys did every day, out there patrolling, and we'll get into it, but you know, you guys were on like an eight hour cycle, eight hours on patrol, eight hours on QRF, which was bound to get called up, and then eight hours to allegedly rest, but you're actually just refitting and replanning to go back out there. You guys, you guys put in so much work over there. It was, it was ridiculous.

• 4:24Jocko Willink?

  So it's an honor to have you guys here. Um, you guys are the ones that, that fought the battle, house to house, street to street, neighborhood to neighborhood. Um, and so it's, it's awesome to get your stories out there. And, and, um, yeah, like I said, Ryan, we kind of heard your story. If you haven't, if you're listening right now, you want to, want to hear about Ryan's background, what he did, listen to episode 492. I'm sure you're going to chime in a little bit.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:49Jocko Willink?

  But, uh, Adam, let's get into your story a little bit, where you came from, a little background before you joined, before you joined the army.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  I was, uh, born in East Los Angeles.

• 4:57Jocko Willink?

  East LA.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  East LA.

• 4:59Jocko Willink?

  Get some. And what was growing up like? What was your parents, what was your parents' situation?

• 5:04Speaker 02

  My parents were pretty good. Uh, my mom pretty much took care of me. And, uh, my, my biological father was never in my life. So, yeah, there's that. And my mom got remarried to my, my dad. I call him my dad. Yeah.

• 5:21Jocko Willink?

  Sounds like you earned it.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, he did. Yeah.

• 5:24Jocko Willink?

  And what'd your, what'd your mom and dad do?

• 5:25Speaker 02

  My mom was a courthouse clerk. She works right there next to the judge. Well, she's retired now, but she's a work right next to the judge.

• 5:33Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  And, uh, my dad's a tool and die maker, or he was, he's retired now too.

• 5:38Jocko Willink?

  Right on. And did you have, did you have brothers, sisters?

• 5:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had a brother and a sister. My brother's name is Gabriel and my sister's name is Francine.

• 5:48Jocko Willink?

  Older, younger?

• 5:49Speaker 02

  They're younger. I'm the oldest.

• 5:51Jocko Willink?

  Uh huh. And then was there any like military history in your family? Any, any veterans or anything like that?

• 5:57Speaker 02

  My grandfather served in World War Two.

• 5:59Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:01Jocko Willink?

  Hell yeah.

• 6:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:02Jocko Willink?

  Did you know him growing up?

• 6:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, definitely. Yes, he was.

• 6:05Jocko Willink?

  Did he tell you stories?

• 6:06Speaker 02

  No, not until afterwards, after when I came back from Ramadi, two thousand and six. Yeah, that's when he started opening up. I didn't even know he was like in Iwo Jima. He was all over Japan.

• 6:17Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was, but he fought a lot of places. That was crazy.

• 6:21Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  He always used to talk about being in Guam and bootlegging liquor. Yeah, he, he, they set up a still inside of a, in the, in the jungle somewhere in Guam, I guess.

• 6:32Jocko Willink?

  Shaq. Selling booze.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Selling booze, yes, sir.

• 6:38Jocko Willink?

  What, what were you into when you were in, in school and high school? Do you play sports?

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I played baseball for a large part of my life. I loved baseball. Big Dodgers fan.

• 6:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, isn't that like required when you're growing up in East LA?

• 6:51Speaker 02

  I guess. Yeah, I guess so, yeah.

• 6:54Jocko Willink?

  And what were you into school was like, did you study?

• 6:59Speaker 02

  I was pretty smart in school, I guess, towards the beginning and then in high school I started screwing up a little bit. I got kicked out of high school.

• 7:05Jocko Willink?

  What'd you get kicked out of high school for?

• 7:06Speaker 02

  For having weed.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  There were some kids tagging right near us and the school cop, I would have some pot in my, my pants and, uh, yeah, so he caught these kids tagging and we're walking by. He made us all stop and he searched us all looking for the markers and stuff and he found weed on me.

• 7:25Jocko Willink?

  What year, what year was that?

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Nineteen ninety-two.

• 7:28Jocko Willink?

  Okay. And so I guess weed was pretty illegal back then.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:32Jocko Willink?

  It's not, it's not as illegal anymore, especially out here.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  It was super illegal back then.

• 7:37Jocko Willink?

  What kind of music were you into?

• 7:39Speaker 02

  I was into a lot of different stuff, man. I grew up listening to a lot of punks, all the skater, skater dudes, uh, a lot of punk, a lot of old new wave, like the Cure, Depeche Mode and all that stuff and.

• 7:50Jocko Willink?

  And what punk rock bands were you into?

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Dead Kennedys.

• 7:53Jocko Willink?

  Okay, just going old school, DK, huh?

• 7:56Speaker 02

  DK, yes, sir. Sex Pistols, what else?

• 7:59Jocko Willink?

  Oh, so you were like a legit old school punk rocker into the late seventies, early eighties punk?

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. Bad Religion, you saw some of them too.

• 8:09Jocko Willink?

  And were you any good at skating?

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I was pretty good. I used to skate with a lot of different pro skaters.

• 8:16Jocko Willink?

  Could you hit an Ollie impossible?

• 8:18Speaker 02

  Probably. I don't even know what that is. An Ollie impossible.

• 8:22Jocko Willink?

  It's one of those Rodney Mullen tricks that's like really hard to do. I guess everyone does them now, but back then.

• 8:27Speaker 02

  Rodney Mullen.

• 8:28Jocko Willink?

  You met him?

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, back in the day, he came and did a thing at our junior high.

• 8:32Jocko Willink?

  Chuck.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, some kind of like exhibition or something like that.

• 8:38Jocko Willink?

  And did he encourage you to keep skating or did he tell you?

• 8:41Speaker 02

  But he was more of a freestyle skater. I was more like a big ramp skater.

• 8:44Jocko Willink?

  Oh, you were like a ramp skater?

• 8:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's like ready big ramp.

• 8:47Jocko Willink?

  Chuck. And what about, I know that your, your future, in the future, you, uh, you do tat, you do tattoo art. So was art always something that you were into?

• 8:57Speaker 02

  Definitely all my life.

• 8:58Jocko Willink?

  Beyond just tagging, uh, school property?

• 9:01Speaker 02

  That wasn't me that was tagging the school property, you know?

• 9:04Jocko Willink?

  You're innocent, bro.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  I'm innocent in that, yeah. That wasn't me, but yeah, art's always been a part of my life. I've always been a really good artist, even from a young kid.

• 9:12Jocko Willink?

  And did you, did you, something you naturally were able to be good at and then you practiced? Did you just?

• 9:18Speaker 02

  No, I was always pretty good at it. My uncle Greg, he's still, uh, he's a good artist and he kind of motivated me. He'd say, man, you can't draw like me. And so I draw exactly like him. And that's what kind of motivated me.

• 9:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  He'd tell me I can't do something, I'd prove to him that I could.

• 9:33Jocko Willink?

  I looked at your, uh, tattoo artwork online and it's freaking badass.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 9:37Jocko Willink?

  Like it's freaking legit. Like you, you, you're highly skilled.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Thank you, sir.

• 9:44Jocko Willink?

  Now, as you're going through high school, I guess before you get kicked out or once you got kicked out, like, did you have a plan in life?

• 9:51Speaker 02

  No, not really. Well, I was supposed to join the Navy. My buddy Eric and me, we were gonna join the Navy. And I ended up getting that bust and so that screwed up my Navy chances. He ended up joining the Navy though.

• 10:04Jocko Willink?

  Hmm, okay. So you were gonna join the military?

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:07Jocko Willink?

  But then you get busted and now you go down to the recruiter and they're like, hey, bro, sorry, you got a record, so you ain't coming here. And then what'd you end up doing?

• 10:15Speaker 02

  I ended up selling my records and I ended up starting working for the city of Peak Rivera.

• 10:19Jocko Willink?

  Doing what?

• 10:20Speaker 02

  As a public works worker.

• 10:22Jocko Willink?

  Okay. And how and how'd you like that job?

• 10:26Speaker 02

  It was alright. It was okay, I guess. It was just a job to me.

• 10:30Jocko Willink?

  How long did you do it for?

• 10:31Speaker 02

  I did it for about two years, three years, something like that. And then I became a a union fire sprinkler fitter, sprinkler fitter.

• 10:39Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's what I did for the rest of the time before I joined the military.

• 10:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and how'd you like that job?

• 10:47Speaker 02

  I loved that job.

• 10:48Jocko Willink?

  You're working hard, you're getting a sweat every day. You see the the fruits of your labor each day, which always I always like jobs like that where you can actually see what you did.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  Pass by buildings nowadays and I'm like, yeah, I did all the fire sprinklers for that.

• 11:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  I built the risers for that and all that stuff, so.

• 11:04Jocko Willink?

  So where are you on September 11th? What are you doing?

• 11:07Speaker 02

  I was hanging pipe. I was doing a Costco. We're building a Costco right there in La Puente. And yeah, I remember that day because I remember my former running up to us and going, hey, man, uh, uh, plane just hit the tower. And we're like, what the heck? And then he came running back and he's like, oh, the plane's at the tower. So we're like, oh, man. Terrorist attack. And I remember being really, really heartbroken about all that stuff and seeing all the people die. But then, um, afterwards, like I'd come home from work and I'd sit down and watch TV, turn the news on. And I see soldiers fighting for us. That's what motivated me to join the military.

• 11:46Jocko Willink?

  What year did you actually join?

• 11:48Speaker 02

  Two thousand and three.

• 11:50Jocko Willink?

  So did you know what you wanted to do?

• 11:53Speaker 02

  I wanted to be infantry. I wanted to go and shoot some people. That's what I wanted to do, but I wanted, actually, I wanted to try.

• 11:59Jocko Willink?

  No lies detected.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  I was trying to, trying to, uh, I was really trying to get a tower power. I wanted to go Ranger and Special Forces, but I just never got that far. Yeah.

• 12:10Jocko Willink?

  But so did you go, you, did you have the opportunity to go infantry right out of the gate?

• 12:14Speaker 02

  No, no. Um, they wanted me to wait like three months. I wanted to join right then there because otherwise I don't know. I just wanted to get the hell out of the east LA, you know?

• 12:23Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  So, uh, yeah, no. So they offered me a job being combat medic. Said I could go to the infantry right then and there. So I guess I could help some people out.

• 12:34Jocko Willink?

  Boom. Just like that. How long did you have to wait before you left for boot camp? Once you told them you'd go combat medic?

• 12:39Speaker 02

  It was super quick, like a week. It was, yeah, I was gone.

• 12:42Jocko Willink?

  And this is because your juvenile, your records were juvenile records of you getting rolled up for weed?

• 12:48Speaker 02

  I had my juvenile record sealed, so.

• 12:50Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that way I was able to join the military.

• 12:54Jocko Willink?

  Check. So now you're a twenty, what, twenty?

• 12:57Speaker 02

  I was twenty eight.

• 12:57Jocko Willink?

  Twenty eight year old man and you're going to boot camp. How was that?

• 13:00Speaker 02

  It was pretty strange. I was old man.

• 13:02Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah. You must have been like literally.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  But I was out running all these young kids, man.

• 13:07Jocko Willink?

  How were you? Were you always in good shape or did you train for boot camp?

• 13:10Speaker 02

  I trained for boot camp. I trained for it. So I was already starting to work out and the, the, the darn, uh, the recruiter took me out to go work out and stuff. So I was getting back in shape.

• 13:23Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:25Jocko Willink?

  And then how was boot camp for you?

• 13:27Speaker 02

  It was pretty cool. I loved it. I went to Fort Benning, Georgia. So, yeah.

• 13:32Jocko Willink?

  When, when you say you loved it, there's, there's, most people don't say they love.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  I loved, I loved all the training, man. You got me motivated. I was super motivated. Yeah.

• 13:43Jocko Willink?

  And you didn't have any issue with like, here you are, an old punk rocker. Did you have tattoos at that time?

• 13:47Speaker 02

  No, I didn't have any tattoos at all.

• 13:49Jocko Willink?

  So you were a clean slate?

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Yes, sir. It was.

• 13:51Jocko Willink?

  So mentally you were a punk rocker, but no one could tell?

• 13:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 13:57Jocko Willink?

  Slide under the radar.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:59Jocko Willink?

  Well, what about mentally when these people are yelling at you and, you know, barking orders at you and stuff like that? You're like, oh, it's all good.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  My dad, it was nothing.

• 14:07Jocko Willink?

  No factor.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  I just kept telling myself like, this is nothing. Yeah, no factor. Exactly.

• 14:12Jocko Willink?

  And then from there, did you go to, when did you go to medic school?

• 14:15Speaker 02

  Right after boot camp. We went to nine weeks of boot camp at Fort Benning, I think it was. Nine weeks and then, uh, went to the street to San Antonio, Texas. To Fort Sam and that's like four months.

• 14:26Jocko Willink?

  Okay. How was that school? Did you feel, do you feel looking back now like it prepared you for what you were going to experience?

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Uh, not at all. I mean, kind of. I mean, the trauma was not really on point there. Kind of learned it on my own.

• 14:41Jocko Willink?

  It's pretty early too. This is what? This is still 2003 when you're going through this? Yeah, when you think about the medical advancements that we made as far as combat trauma between 2003, 2004, 2005.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 14:54Jocko Willink?

  We got so much better. And it's weird too, like for special operations medics, they go to a school that's like a year and a half, two years long.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, definitely.

• 15:03Jocko Willink?

  It's a lot and they're, they're very prepared, you know, um, for what they're going to be doing, especially nowadays.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  I was pretty confident in my skills though.

• 15:14Jocko Willink?

  Good, good.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 15:16Jocko Willink?

  Cause I remember when they started implementing like TCCC, you remember TCCC? But I also remember when they didn't have TCCC.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:23Jocko Willink?

  So like all these basic things of like how to put on a tourniquet, you know, those fundament, what we think now is the absolute bare bones basic. We did not, we did not know that, especially I can go back to the early nineties, like in the early nineties, what we learned about combat trauma was shit.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  Definitely, yeah.

• 15:44Jocko Willink?

  It was shit. It was like, hey, give the guy an IV. We spent all this time practicing giving IVs.

• 15:49Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, definitely.

• 15:50Jocko Willink?

  Like, oh, under a poncho with the red lens in our teeth, you know, giving someone an IV.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:55Jocko Willink?

  But we, we never practiced putting on tourniquets and we would even, at that time, we would talk about tourniquets. And it would be like, oh, you, you'd be like, oh, if you need a tourniquet, you can make one with your belt. Like that was the extent of tourniquet training as opposed to what we should have been doing, which is having like a pre fabricated tourniquet and practice putting that thing on at night. Like that's what's way more important. So you go to the four month school, but you, so this is now 2003, like are you, you're feeling pretty good about the combat trauma? Medicine training that you're getting?

• 16:27Speaker 02

  I thought I was at first, but my confidence got a little bit more when I went to Iraq, my first tour in 2004, 2003. Then in 2003, beginning 2004.

• 16:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Did you, did you go from medic school to AIT?

• 16:42Speaker 02

  Uh, no, medic school is our EIT.

• 16:44Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that's what it is. Oh, that's your advanced training. Okay, got it. So then where you go, Germany?

• 16:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I went to Germany.

• 16:50Jocko Willink?

  And this is where you guys meet?

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, same here.

• 16:52Jocko Willink?

  Right on.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Same deployment.

• 16:53Jocko Willink?

  So you, you guys.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Already there.

• 16:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you'd been there for a little while at that time.

• 16:59Jocko Willink?

  And how was your, when you get with your unit, how much time did you have to get prepared to go to Iraq?

• 17:06Speaker 02

  I think it was a couple of weeks once we got to Germany. Yeah, they just rock and roll, man. They just ship you out. So I was in Germany for a couple of weeks. I got to meet my brother. My brother was teaching in Ramstein. So that was pretty cool.

• 17:16Jocko Willink?

  And what, what, was he air force?

• 17:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was air force.

• 17:19Jocko Willink?

  Oh, sweet. So you meet up with your brother. How long had he been in the air force for?

• 17:24Speaker 02

  Oh, he'd been in there for a minute already, a couple of years, so.

• 17:27Jocko Willink?

  So you're the new guy, but you're all, you're heading over to Iraq?

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:31Jocko Willink?

  How'd you feel about going into Iraq in oh three?

• 17:34Speaker 02

  I was kind of nervous at first and I was really pumped up and motivated, you know, I just wanted to go and help our soldiers. I was ready. I felt, I felt very confident in my skills at the time. So, yeah.

• 17:46Jocko Willink?

  And so when, when did you deploy to Iraq? What year was it? Was it oh four?

• 17:50Speaker 02

  It was, it was the end of oh three.

• 17:52Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  Being in oh four.

• 17:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  So it took us a while to get out there because I had a, I hadn't been set to a unit yet. I was just knowing I was going to be in part of two six symmetry. I wasn't sure which platoon or which company or nothing like that. So we got there and I remember just going to, we were slanting in Biop. I remember going to Kuwait first. Sorry, sorry. We're going to Kuwait and I remember seeing the, the tower all shot up and stuff. I was thinking like, man, that's crazy. And then we flew into Iraq in a Biop and I remember walking that night, the very first night, walking towards, uh, to go take a shower and these rockets go flying over our head and popped like a hundred meters in front of us. I was like, God dang, we're in California anymore. I was like, what the hell? Close. Yeah.

• 18:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. I was actually, my first deployment to Iraq, which was oh three, oh four, we were in a little base that was adjacent to Biop. So we had this little camp for SEALs that was called Camp Jenny Posey, which this badass Vietnam frogman who is still in. And his daughter was Army ROTC and her name was Jenny Posey and he named the camp Camp Jenny Posey. So that was his little camp, but it was right there on Biop. So we, you know, we were, you probably ate at the same chow hall that we did. So maybe even, uh, cleared our weapons in the same, uh, weapons thing there.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  I remember just remember getting in Biop and that went, that big old, um,

• 19:21Speaker 02

  That is it called man, those damn.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Clear barrels.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  No, not the clearing barrels, the hangar.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  All blown up and stuff.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:29Jocko Willink?

  Those big, um, uh, bunkers, they were like, there were some hangers that were like bunkers.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:35Jocko Willink?

  You know, they were super like concrete.

• 19:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 19:38Jocko Willink?

  Big ass, thick, concrete bunkers. And some of those you could see had been hit with some munitions that were pretty specific. Meant to take out those things.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  We seen that. TQ two, right before we went to Ramadi, remember that?

• 19:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:51Jocko Willink?

  So then where, where did you work out of? When, once you got on the ground in Biap, where'd you go? Did you work out of Baghdad or where?

• 19:57Speaker 02

  No, they bussed us out to, uh, to one of Saddam's palaces and that's where I met our unit. And, uh, they asked me where I wanted to go, two, six or one, six. I said, two, six. And so.

• 20:09Jocko Willink?

  Did you have any reason for that?

• 20:10Speaker 02

  No, I just.

• 20:11Jocko Willink?

  Just like.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  I just wanted to go with my buddies.

• 20:13Jocko Willink?

  Oh, so you knew where some of your guys, some of your buddies were?

• 20:15Speaker 02

  Uh, well, just the guys that I went with.

• 20:17Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:19Jocko Willink?

  And then where were you? So where were you guys working out of?

• 20:21Speaker 02

  Uh, I ended up meeting up with these guys in Mule Skinner, Camp Mule Skinner.

• 20:25Jocko Willink?

  Okay. And then as you're there and you start working, how's that job being a medic now?

• 20:32Speaker 02

  It was kind of different. I got sent to, sent to H E C and then I wanted a little bit more. I wanted to hit the line. So I'd go out with Bravo Company. I met Chris Watson, I met Ryan, a lot of those guys.

• 20:42Jocko Willink?

  And, and what was, what kind of operations were you guys running?

• 20:45Speaker 02

  We were doing like, uh, we, we do like, we'd hit some houses here and there. They always kept me in the back of the Bradley. I'm like, what the heck, man? Let me get, get out, man.

• 20:57Jocko Willink?

  What's your perspective on that, Ryan? You're like, hey, we got a brand new guy. He's a medic. He's been here for a week. He's gonna be sitting in the back of the Bradley.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  I was pretty fresh myself, so. Seeing new guys show up and, um.

• 21:10Jocko Willink?

  Had you been there longer though?

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was there for the invasion, like the whole push off.

• 21:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  And all the way up. So, uh, we, we would get replacements in every now and then they'd just show up and just welcome the team.

• 21:23Jocko Willink?

  Welcome aboard. Get your shit on.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  We were talking about, we were talking about Najaf and all that stuff. We got extended that first tour. And I remember going to Najaf and then we were talking about, what was that, for certain name? For certain.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Uh, Copperidge.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  Copperidge.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  And I remember going to Najaf and sitting in this Honduran camp, camp hotel.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  And there's a bunch of little Honduran guys, man. So these, the camp hotel, the captain Baker, it's like a two mile stretch and they got hit, they had ambush like four times just rolling out there.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  And I remember when we left that place, this is when we went to Al Kut. I don't know if you remember that.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, could, now the Ukrainian base.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, we had the whole operation where we went to three cities in like.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  A week.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, something like that.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  That's why you ended up at the CPA building and eventually.

• 22:25Jocko Willink?

  The CPA in Najaf?

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah, I think we might have talked about that because we, we've, we were going to go down to the CPA. We did go down to Najaf and that's actually classic because we got called to be QRF for the CPA in Najaf. We're in Baghdad. It's like a five hour drive. Oh, yeah. They didn't, no helicopters are like, hey, we need you down there. And I'm looking at the battle map and I'm like, hey, there's a whole bunch of cities with bases in between us and them. Why, why us? And I remember specifically the, they're looking at Al Kut and being like, what about these guys? And they're like, oh no, those are, those are Hondurans. And I'm like, okay, well, what's wrong with that? Like said them, they can still be there faster than we can, you know, like it's a five hour drive. But yeah, that's the way it goes sometimes.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  The wall was like six feet tall. So I remember we were leaving Najaf because we got sent out to Al Kut. And I remember the, the tracer rounds flying over the, right over the wall.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  Right above our heads and stuff when we were leaving.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  I remember this when we were driving out there, remember I was talking about this, when we were driving out there on our convoy. And I remember just, it was nighttime and I remember seeing a streak of light and a rocket popping, shooting at us and some gunfire coming at us. And so we started shooting back. And I hear over the net, they're like, who the hell's shooting back? And like the medics.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  We're still a soft skin Humvees and five tons.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were rolling a five ton.

• 23:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah, I, I don't know when the armored, up armored Humvees got there, but I didn't really see any up armored Humvees. I left in two thousand and like the spring of two thousand four and I hadn't seen any up armored Humvees yet. You know, we definitely didn't have them. Ours were just like, we took the doors off those things, you know, so we could like maneuver our weapons and get off faster and just have those things out of the way.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:14Jocko Willink?

  Eventually we, we started doing some Mad Max stuff though, and guys would like weld door, like thick steel doors. We, we got a, we somewhere got a bunch of steel from somewhere and started putting that on just to give some kind of protection at least to the driver. You know what I'm saying? But we didn't have bulletproof windows or anything like that at all.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  We put sandbags on the bottom of the Humvees, try and protect us.

• 24:34Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 24:35Speaker 02

  I remember all that stuff.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember last podcast, I said, my, my two forty was strapped down on sandbags and top of a soft skin Humvee.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  It was redneck.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  I have a, I have a picture of one guy had a surefire, not surefire, a BS mag light.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Mag light. Yeah, we duct taped into our rifles.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:55Jocko Willink?

  You guys remember, you guys may or may not remember, but Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense, like he was getting asked questions like, hey, like these guys need this and these guys. And he said, hey, you go to war with what you've got, not with what you want. And I was like, hey, bro. You might want to rethink that statement. You make it all of us who are sitting out there with two forties strapped to a freaking sandbag.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  They changed our uniforms. We got ACUs.

• 25:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:19Jocko Willink?

  And so how's the op temple for you as a medic? Did you, cause you know, are you, did you work on any guys on your first deployment?

• 25:26Speaker 02

  Uh, the first time I saw somebody was at Camp Moomedia. Uh, what was it? What was the name of the camp? Camp St. Michael, I think it was. And this was after our, after we got extended is Camp St. Michael's and uh, there was this kid, they got hit by mortar, direct hit and he lost both of his legs. I remember him bringing him in today's station and working on him.

• 25:45Jocko Willink?

  And that's your first?

• 25:47Speaker 02

  That was my first time.

• 25:47Jocko Willink?

  First guy you're working on?

• 25:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yes, it was.

• 25:52Jocko Willink?

  Uh, um, how'd you feel about that?

• 25:55Speaker 02

  I didn't really see the injuries, you know, it's more like it's weird. I closed my mind off a little bit. And you just start working, you know, that's always been my, I guess, my talent. Stay calm and just start working, try and stop the bleeding. You know, just going through my mind like what I need to do and stuff, so. Couldn't get a tourniquet on one of his legs because his stump was, his leg was completely blown off, so. Yeah, but the kid ended up living, I guess, from what I heard.

• 26:22Jocko Willink?

  Was he one of your guys or was he someone from a different unit?

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Nah, he's from a different unit, but he was, well, he's one of our guys. He's American, so that didn't really matter.

• 26:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. But you, but you don't, do you know his name?

• 26:33Speaker 02

  I don't remember his name, I don't.

• 26:35Jocko Willink?

  And that's the first, so that's the first time you actually worked on somebody real time?

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 26:41Jocko Willink?

  And, and then what about the rest of the deployment? Were you, did you have?

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Well, we had seventeen guys, oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, we had seventeen guys go down in a mortar attack because we were sitting in a basin and two miles out of Camp St. Michael's, that, that place they were always mortaring us. Every day, every day, like almost, they dropped nine mortars on us like within like a minute. On the same spot and these guys were out there doing sandbag detail. And, uh, yeah, we had seventeen guys go down, three critically injured. And I just, we were just pulling guys in, started working on them.

• 27:16Jocko Willink?

  So how many medics did you have with you? Like, how many of you are there?

• 27:20Speaker 02

  There's like one, one of us per platoon. Yeah.

• 27:24Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  What was it you're saying this morning? Um, the most Purple Hearts since World War II?

• 27:29Speaker 02

  Uh, that's what I thought, yeah. They said that our unit had the most Purple Hearts since World War II.

• 27:33Jocko Willink?

  No kidding?

• 27:34Speaker 02

  At that moment.

• 27:35Jocko Willink?

  At that time?

• 27:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, Mumadie, there was, there was like Mumadie and Akmadie or something there was, but they called, that was the original like Devil's Triangle or something. They ended up, they would say like Salusia, they, they ended up saying it about somewhere else too, but well, in that timeframe, like that's south of Baghdad, we go down there and it would be bad. It would always be jacked up, so. So the guys got mortared, you take seventeen casualties.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:01Jocko Willink?

  You're working on as many as you can, three of them were critical and the rest of them weren't as bad?

• 28:06Speaker 02

  They weren't as bad, but they still were all shook up, you know? They had some pretty bad wounds on them. Yep, and, uh, yeah.

• 28:17Jocko Willink?

  Did uh, did, how, so three of those guys get evacuated out of country?

• 28:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 28:23Jocko Willink?

  And then?

• 28:24Speaker 02

  One of them's name was Swift.

• 28:25Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  I remember the PA was trying to, he got hit in the neck.

• 28:29Jocko Willink?

  Oof.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  And so he was trying to get an airway down, so he tried, tried putting a laryngoscope down his throat to get a tube down his throat and he couldn't get it, so I jumped in there and got it in there. And we're doing that.

• 28:41Jocko Willink?

  So that's a life-saving activity right there, for sure.

• 28:44Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  We, we thought he was dead when he left.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  Like, we thought he wasn't gonna make it, but he's alive and kicking now.

• 28:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:50Jocko Willink?

  Damn, dude. And where, where were you when you were performing this?

• 28:55Speaker 02

  We got him in the aid station.

• 28:56Jocko Willink?

  First aid, so you were in the aid station?

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 28:59Jocko Willink?

  Had you been out in the field with him and?

• 29:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was already part of Bravo Company.

• 29:03Jocko Willink?

  Damn, dude.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Two six, yeah. So, but all the guys, I remember running outside after hearing the attack. And all the guys were all scattered, everybody was lying on the ground and stuff, smoking and all the stuff, you know? The chaos behind all that stuff. And we're just grabbing guys, just running them over to the aid station.

• 29:23Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:24Jocko Willink?

  And how deep into, like, how long in deployment, what, what month was that?

• 29:27Speaker 02

  It was like June.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's after we got extended, so it was like fourteen months in.

• 29:32Jocko Willink?

  Oh, damn, dude.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:35Jocko Willink?

  Um. What about on a, on like a daily basis, how often are you guys taking casualties?

• 29:42Speaker 02

  At that time, we weren't really taking that many. I remember, uh, who was on the, the Bradley that got hit?

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Oh, sorry, Copper, he's where he got shot in the hand?

• 29:51Speaker 02

  No, not there, in, in Muma Dya.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  Oh, I can't remember that.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  They got hit with a big IED.

• 29:58Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  And we're running up there afterwards, because we were on the QRF to go check it out. And where the medic was just sitting there, just not even doing anything.

• 30:07Jocko Willink?

  Like in a shock situation?

• 30:09Speaker 02

  Shocked.

• 30:10Jocko Willink?

  So you had to roll in and make things happen?

• 30:12Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were still getting, still getting mortared every day.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Worked out effective, but for some reason, our, our building was like the highest point of the city.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:21Jocko Willink?

  Good aiming point.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Aluminum building and just like, it was an easy target.

• 30:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  It sat in a basin, so two miles out, they could see inside our whole camp. And then we started running patrols out, remember that? And we, they brought in some paladins, so they get a poo. Point of origin, sorry, just saying that for everybody else. They get a poo and we start shooting the paladins back. That was crazy.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  Oh, they started, yeah, we had the Q thirty six where they can detect where it comes from. They started freezing the mortar round in the top of the tube. And they just let it sit out there. They figured out what we were doing. And so it would just freeze and slowly, and then it would go down and hit. And they just set those up all over the place.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Damn.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  And like we.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  Cause we built a grid square. Like almost immediately.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  We'd shoot back with it. They figured out what we were doing, so.

• 31:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the, the counter battery never seemed to be as effective. Against like some moose running around with like a little eighty millimeter mortar or whatever. They just pull out of the car, drop a couple or do what you're saying. And it was, you know, then they just pack it up and go. By the time we returned fire on them, it was like they were already gone. That's a tough, that's a tough situation. It's a tough enemy tactic to overcome.

• 31:40Jocko Willink?

  Mortars like that. Now, I guess nowadays with the drones and the, you know, the, you'd probably be able to do a little bit better. Cause you can see them setting up hopefully and put it on them beforehand. It's gonna be a little different this next war, you know? Do you guys watch what's going on over in Ukraine? It's freaking crazy. Like you, I don't know. I was talking about this with a, with a young military guy, uh, just about the fact that, you know, dude, when they train right now, there's drones, like even during training, they're training against drones. And he was talking about how it's like terrifying because, because you're like in a position and you'll get like an intel report, like, hey, there's drones coming. So they stop and they try and hide. And then they're hiding, but it's like all of a sudden you just hear.

• 32:29Jocko Willink?

  Yep, and they just know where they are.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  And they have, they have the drones that watch what's going on too. Just so they can film it for propaganda too. Like I watch clips of that stuff like dudes just hiding in a box hole and just dropping munitions out on top of them.

• 32:41Jocko Willink?

  So, as I was talking to this young, uh, military guy, I was like, yeah, that's terrifying. And I said, I was thinking about for, for our generation, it was like, there's no indication whatsoever. You're just walking and all of a sudden, you're blown up, you know, like, that's pretty scary. At least when there's a drone, you're like, oh, there it is. I can react to it of some kind. But as opposed to just like, oh, you're just walking down the street or driving down the street and then the next minute you're engulfed in fire. You know, uh, uh, I think they both have their own form of terror. I'll, I'll leave it at that. They're both pretty freaking heinous.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Well, they got kids playing Xbox controllers controlling these things. And that's crazy.

• 33:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's the, that's what everyone keeps saying about like, what skillset is going to be needed for the next generation? Those, what are they? Point of view? Point of view drones? They go first person view, FPV drones where it's like, they're like a little pilot looking through their iPhone. And flying in and just going into buildings and like, it's, it's definitely, uh, it's definitely next level right now.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Definitely, yeah.

• 33:49Jocko Willink?

  The, it'll be, it'll be interesting.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  How do you even fight that?

• 33:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's gonna be weird. It's gonna be weird to see how it unfolds, you know, are they gonna come up with, you know, some kind of a weapon? Like some kind of a high speed shotgun that you can just blast those things out of the sky. I saw one the other day that, that you basically shot a counter drone at it, at an enemy drone and it just goes out there and picks it off. So, you know, things will escalate and we'll keep getting better and better. They're gonna, you know, they can make something like a laser gun. Honestly, like a laser gun that can hit something and knock out the electronics in it and it falls out of the sky. Like there, we will counter this stuff.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 34:25Jocko Willink?

  And it'll hopefully level out the playing field as opposed to just being a infantry soldier on the ground getting freaking chased by these things. And just horrified.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  The psychological aspect behind it just messes with you.

• 34:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  You know, just thinking you have the advantage and the drone just comes out of nowhere and just flies right into you.

• 34:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And the other thing that's gonna be weird is like, we, we build. You know, uh, ships that cost three billion dollars, you know? And it's like, well, how many really badass drones can you build for three billion dollars? Even like, cause they make waterborne drones, you know, things that are like basically smart torpedoes. Uh, you know, how are you going to stop when 400 of those things come at your

• 35:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, swarms.

• 35:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, swarms. So, and then you start getting swarms below the sea and then swarms from the air at the same time?

• 35:16Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 35:17Jocko Willink?

  It's gonna be, we got some shit to figure out here.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 35:20Jocko Willink?

  So I'm very grateful that we didn't have to put up with that.

• 35:23Speaker 02

  Me too, yeah, definitely.

• 35:26Jocko Willink?

  Uh, so you guys are deep into this deployment, but so for me in oh, three, oh, four, like just the there was obviously there'd be enemy attacks on a regular basis, but certainly not comparable to what it was like in Ramadi.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Not at all.

• 35:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  That was crazy.

• 35:44Jocko Willink?

  Not at all. So how are you feeling as you kind of, as you kind of get towards the end of this first deployment for, for you?

• 35:50Speaker 02

  Pretty good, you know, just, uh,

• 35:54Speaker 02

  just so eye opening, very eye opening for me, you know, uh, yeah.

• 36:00Jocko Willink?

  And it had to be a little bit different for you because you were a little bit older. I mean, you're now what? You're probably close to 30 years old at this time.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Definitely. I was 29, 29, 30 almost.

• 36:11Jocko Willink?

  So that's a, you have a little bit more of a, of a perspective of the world.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:15Jocko Willink?

  Then, you know, guys that are 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, you know, you're still pretty freaking.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  See, they're younger than me.

• 36:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  Super young. But everybody was pretty cool with me, you know, and nobody ever believed how old I was when I tell them, like, no way. I'm like, yeah, I'm 29, bro.

• 36:38Jocko Willink?

  So as you're, as you're wrapping up that deployment, are you thinking that the army is gonna be something you do for a long time?

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Well, definitely. I wanted to be a lifer. I wanted to be in there as long as I could.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Obviously, he didn't go that route, but yeah, I tried. I only lasted almost ten years, so.

• 36:56Jocko Willink?

  Check. So, how was the reintegration when you get back to Germany?

• 37:01Speaker 02

  It was, it was pretty fun, I guess. I mean, he talked about it. Yeah, because we all got drunk. Everybody's getting all loaded. Yeah, we ended up going to that stupid, uh, that gym.

• 37:12Jocko Willink?

  Oh, for like, uh, to, to decompress you guys or whatever?

• 37:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, yeah.

• 37:17Jocko Willink?

  And you're, they're like, oh, do you have any nightmares? No. Do you feel, uh, do you feel scared? No. Do you, do you react? Are you short tempered? No.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  Just wanna get out of here.

• 37:26Jocko Willink?

  Can I go to the bar? Yes.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. And all the guys hitting all the bars and strip joints and all that stuff.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Our community was really, really small. We left, the whole place just fell apart. So, we came back, like, we were wild.

• 37:39Jocko Willink?

  It was like Kings of the World had returned.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  We wilded out.

• 37:43Jocko Willink?

  And you guys had been gone for what? Was it a fourteen month deployment? Fifteen month deployment? Damn, dude.

• 37:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. I was only there for like seven, eight months.

• 37:53Jocko Willink?

  So, uh, when you guys get back, you guys begin another workup cycle? Start training again?

• 37:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, we ended up doing Grafenholz Fells.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Back to back.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. I didn't even got to go to like Oktoberfest or nothing like that, because we were always training.

• 38:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Dude, you got gypped.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 38:10Jocko Willink?

  The army should have to.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  Four years I was there.

• 38:12Jocko Willink?

  They should, they should, they owe you, man. You should get some more VA pay for not getting to go to Oktoberfest.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:19Jocko Willink?

  While in Germany.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  But I used to travel everywhere, because we used to celebrate German holidays too, just like almost every weekend. So, we get a three day or a four day weekend every, every other weekend. And so I.

• 38:29Jocko Willink?

  So, you got to see Europe a bit?

• 38:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  We used to have a thing where we'd, we'd buy like a case of beer, a bottle of liquor, and get on a train and drink it until it ran out, and then we'd just get off wherever.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  I was tattooing there too, so that I used to pay for all my trips.

• 38:41Jocko Willink?

  Oh, so this is when you started your tattooing?

• 38:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 38:43Jocko Willink?

  How'd you get into it?

• 38:44Speaker 02

  I just, I, I, well, when I was in high school, one of these guys, he's an old fellow guy, got me into it. And so, uh.

• 38:53Jocko Willink?

  But you didn't have any tattoos yourself?

• 38:55Speaker 02

  Not at the time, no.

• 38:57Jocko Willink?

  So, you were just tattooing other people?

• 38:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I tattooed my legs, that was it. I had some tattoos on my legs. I did it on myself first.

• 39:04Jocko Willink?

  How old were you? Was that in Germany when you did that?

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I just started. I just ordered some stuff and started tattoo.

• 39:11Jocko Willink?

  What was the first one? What was the first one you did?

• 39:14Speaker 02

  Uh, probably, uh, I think it was a skull on my

• 39:17Jocko Willink?

  Hell, yeah.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  My shin, like a skull crossbones.

• 39:21Jocko Willink?

  Right on.

• 39:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did that.

• 39:24Jocko Willink?

  Eh, is it upside down?

• 39:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 39:26Jocko Willink?

  You're good enough in art that you figured it out.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Figured it out. It's not upside down. It's just, uh, yeah. I did it with a single needle. I remember doing that. It took forever to fill it in and stuff.

• 39:36Jocko Willink?

  Oh, you didn't get like the shading needle?

• 39:38Speaker 02

  I didn't know about that. I kind of went along.

• 39:42Jocko Willink?

  Cause they have like starter kits for tattoo. You can get like the tattoo guy starter kit. It comes with a few different types of needles and some ink and stuff like that.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  That's what I bought. And you know, knucklehead infantry guys, man, they're just like, hey, tattoo me a dog. I'm like, alright, man. I got you. So.

• 39:59Jocko Willink?

  Were you charging anything? You're just doing it for free?

• 40:02Speaker 02

  I was charging people.

• 40:03Jocko Willink?

  How much you charge for a freaking ace of spades with a skull on it?

• 40:06Speaker 02

  I don't even remember.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  It was cheap.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  It was pretty cheap though.

• 40:09Jocko Willink?

  Did you feel like you like it, uh, like you had a pretty good talent for it out of the gate?

• 40:15Speaker 02

  I did, yeah. I picked it up really quick.

• 40:17Jocko Willink?

  Did you tattoo any chickens? Did you, did you ever hear about like tattooing chicken skin? Yeah, pay years and stuff like that. You never did that. You went right, straight to human skin.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Yes, I did.

• 40:27Jocko Willink?

  Straight to your own shin.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  Yes. Killed my shin. Shit, so. That shit is so.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  I remember a trust though, cause he was doc, so.

• 40:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Oh, that's right. So we know at least he's gonna be keeping shit clean.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Even our first sergeant, yeah.

• 40:39Jocko Willink?

  Did he do any on you, Ryan?

• 40:41Speaker 01

  No, he's supposed to do one this weekend over here.

• 40:43Jocko Willink?

  Oh, damn.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Stuff, so.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:44Jocko Willink?

  What was he gonna do?

• 40:45Speaker 01

  I don't know anything.

• 40:46Jocko Willink?

  Just whatever.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  He just wanted to get a tattoo.

• 40:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, just from him. Cause he's did a lot of other guys and.

• 40:51Jocko Willink?

  Did you, most of the work I saw that you did online was like all black and white. Did you always just do black and white or did you do other stuff too?

• 40:57Speaker 02

  No, I did a lot of color too at the beginning. Uh, when I came out here to, well, when I got to Colorado, I was doing a lot of color stuff.

• 41:03Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Um, when I went to Walter Reed, I was working at this other shop. I forgot the name of it though, but we're just some really badass artists. One of his names was Chris Low and a really badass color artist. So kind of treated off. I did a lot of black and gray and he kind of picked up their color work from them. So

• 41:19Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 41:20Speaker 02

  Pretty cool like that.

• 41:21Jocko Willink?

  Right on. Um, so you're traveling on trains, drinking beer and tattooing people.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, definitely.

• 41:28Jocko Willink?

  And you're doing your work up.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. And then we're playing guitar too. Traveling around.

• 41:33Jocko Willink?

  Oh, right.

• 41:33Speaker 02

  Playing open mic.

• 41:34Jocko Willink?

  You play guitar?

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:36Jocko Willink?

  What kind of guitar you have?

• 41:37Speaker 02

  I don't have any right now.

• 41:38Jocko Willink?

  What kind of guitar did you have? Who were you playing acoustic or?

• 41:41Speaker 02

  Acoustic, yeah. We'd go and travel around and go pick up, play open mics in Germany. That was awesome.

• 41:48Jocko Willink?

  Jack. I used to go to this one bar when I was in Germany and uh every night at like two or three o'clock in the morning when it was the end of the night. All these freaking Germans would sing John Denver uh Country Roads.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Really?

• 42:01Jocko Willink?

  It like, it was like a, it was like a religious moment for the bar. Like everyone would be like alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright. They would all get quiet and then they'd put on Country Roads and all these drunk Germans.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  What were you at in Germany?

• 42:13Jocko Willink?

  Uh Berligen, which is outside of uh Stuttgart.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  That's a mouthful, isn't it?

• 42:19Jocko Willink?

  It's the, it's where the, it's where the Seals used to have like a base there.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  I didn't even know that. That's pretty awesome.

• 42:25Jocko Willink?

  Panzer concern. It was like an old Panzer, it's an old Panzer base in World War Two. The, in fact, the building where the Seals were was a Panzer like mechanic or a Panzer garage. So they still had cranes that they would move the engines out of the Panzers during World War Two. Yeah, it was, it was pretty freaking cool. It was pretty cool to be there.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  We were talking about bomb holder too. They had like Nazi swastikas built into the.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  On our Patai headquarters.

• 42:52Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Still, still with the bricks.

• 42:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, just straight up.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:56Jocko Willink?

  That's pretty surprising because they're pretty uh, they're pretty strict about the way they allow that. Yeah, yeah, they keep, like the uh, the, the graveyards for the German soldiers are like hard to find. You gotta look around to find them. And they got these black crosses. It's like, you know, Americans, we have the white crosses.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:17Jocko Willink?

  They have black, like, real heavy looking crosses for their, their soldiers from World War Two. Yeah, the, they're very strict about that stuff. What base was that where they had the swazis in the clear? That's crazy.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  Bomb holder.

• 43:32Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Patai headquarters had swastikas in the brick.

• 43:35Speaker 02

  In the brickwork. Yeah.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  They didn't even try to, they didn't put a sign over it or anything. They just.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  The library had a swazi on the, in the brickwork too.

• 43:43Jocko Willink?

  Damn, dude.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I'm surprised they didn't put something over there because like I said, you could they're strict about like you can't you can't be in Germany and have swastikas like that's illegal. They're they're strict. Well, check. Um, all right. So tattoos are going down. Like I said, we're drinking beer. We're getting ready for deployment.

• 44:04Jocko Willink?

  You guys find out you go, but you guys didn't know you were going into Ramadi, did you? And you guys.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Not at first, no, no, we ended up going to Kuwait and hanging out there for a few.

• 44:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you talked about that last time, Ryan, like the waiting game, the waiting game did not do you guys well.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  I remember the one right before we were supposed to deploy, remember? And we had this one kid. Commit a suicide outside.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  With a saw in the porta potty.

• 44:30Jocko Willink?

  With a saw?

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, like he wasn't playing around.

• 44:32Jocko Willink?

  Dude, how many rounds did he get off?

• 44:36Jocko Willink?

  Like, like, damn.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  I think he just put under his chin, just laid on it and just. I think it was still going off, but fortunately stopped it.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  I remember being downstairs in our, because we're moving out the arms room, remember? And, uh, yeah, he was one of the kids that they put in charge of guarding our our weapons. We're moving them out of arms room into truck.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  Oh, you're talking about you're talking about burns outside the.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Right there.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Outside the company steps. Oh, that's different. That's not the guy in Kuwait. So we, yeah, right before we left, there was a guy that, uh, he was schizophrenic, like people would, he would.

• 45:13Speaker 02

  He's a new guy, though.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, he would be talking to himself in the room and stuff. He spoke German, too. His dad was German soldier or something. But, uh, yeah, we're getting ready to go to the field and he was guarding the weapons and. Put his weapon on three round burst and just underneath the sign that said, we set the standards.

• 45:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  And we all got called in, lost a four day weekend.

• 45:39Jocko Willink?

  What did they tell you? What they call you and to tell you they got the guy killed himself?

• 45:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:42Jocko Willink?

  Do they do any like a mental health checks or anything?

• 45:45Speaker 01

  No, they were investigating us. They were asking like if somebody was bullying him or something.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. That's stupid.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Everyone knew he was schizophrenic. Like he was like, he would yell at himself at night.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  Kids are weird.

• 45:56Jocko Willink?

  That's weird. You know, there's I did. I did a couple of podcasts about um in Vietnam, they like lowered the standard of what you could get, what who you had to be to get in the army. And like they let in guys that were were were basically mentally handicapped, you know, and it caused real problems in the Vietnam War. Now, a lot of them, they'd be like, okay, dude, you're going to be a cook or you're going to take some job like some menial job that that they could get by with. But occasionally, you know, sometimes they'd be like, okay, you're an infantry guy. And like, there's a guy that wrote a book about it and he had to teach one of his fellow

• 46:33Jocko Willink?

  guys in boot camp how to tie his shoes because he didn't know how to tie his shoes.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Serious.

• 46:38Jocko Willink?

  And when he asked him, they had to write a letter home and he said, hey, what's your address of where you live? He's like, he didn't know his own address. He didn't know how to write home. And he was in that freaking army. So, yeah, occasionally.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  That's what that's what you have to say about the army. Yeah, we're all a bunch of retards.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  But yeah, I didn't think I could say that. Sorry.

• 47:02Jocko Willink?

  So you guys were Kuwait. Now you guys eventually find out. How long? You guys went Kuwait for a while, though. How long were you there for?

• 47:08Speaker 02

  Five months.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  Five months, something like that. Yeah.

• 47:11Jocko Willink?

  That's that's a long time to be sitting around.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I said last podcast, like, people wanted to go to war, like, young soldiers, like, wanting to go to war.

• 47:18Jocko Willink?

  It's better than sitting in Kuwait.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Really? It really was.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  It was boring.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  We would walk like a clique to the chow hall. We had to wear all of our gear because we were climatizing. So we had to wear all of our gear, chow hall, back every time. And

• 47:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  It's stupid training. We did EIB, extra infantry badge.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  I was in excellent shape then though.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, everybody.

• 47:38Jocko Willink?

  Just working out like crazy.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 47:41Jocko Willink?

  Check. Eventually, you guys hear you're going up to Ramadi. Now, you went up on an ad, didn't you go up early?

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I went with Colonel Dean and kept the lens on.

• 47:49Jocko Willink?

  So you're back still in Kuwait. What are you hearing when you're back in Kuwait, Adam?

• 47:54Speaker 02

  Not really much. We just knew that where we were going to, like this crazy city. And I guess, what was his name?

• 48:03Speaker 02

  Sar Kaway.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  That was our county.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's where he was running that city at the time. And then he got killed.

• 48:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so I was like, wow. So this is right after Fallujah too. So they were saying, telling us that the city's really crazy. We're going to expect to see a lot of casualties. On both sides, I guess.

• 48:22Jocko Willink?

  Did you, did you believe that? Or you're just like, oh, it's another hype speech?

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no. I was preparing myself and my guys to, to deal with that, training them all up. We were all training up really heavy. I was going through my old, like, model combat scenarios, you know, and stuff and trying to. Because by that time, I guess our military, our, our medical knowledge has grown up a lot. So a lot of things have changed. So we got like those Israeli bandages. We got stuff like that. We got tourniquets, the cat tourniquets.

• 48:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah. So you're training your individual soldiers to be able to work on each other. Yeah.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 48:59Jocko Willink?

  That, that definitely, like I said, we went through T-triple-C, which was our kind of, is it a three day course or something like that?

• 49:06Speaker 02

  Something like that.

• 49:07Jocko Willink?

  But, but my guys used it to save lives, a hundred percent, you know, so that's awesome that you did that with your guys as you were getting ready to go up there.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Definitely. Training all these guys, still the infantry dudes, so, yeah.

• 49:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's a freaking epic.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  That was awesome.

• 49:22Jocko Willink?

  You, you guys get up there. I'm going to read a little something from, from Colonel Dean's book of when you guys get up there. He says, as we formed up for the transfer of authority ceremony at zero seven hundred on the morning of seven June, we had three soldiers dead, six very seriously injured, and two more wounded in action before even taking over. So just to explain that to civilians, when you go in to a new area of operations to take to what relief in place is what it's called, basically someone's going to leave, like a group is going to leave and a group is going to take their place. And so the group that's there, another group comes in, comes in, take their place, you do left seat, right seat, like basically you go out on some patrols

• 50:07Jocko Willink?

  with them to familiarize them with the area of operations, what the enemy TTPs are, what to watch out for, how the area functions, and then the people that have been there leave and now the new unit takes over and that's called a transfer of authority. So by the end of the transfer of authority, just by the end of that transfer of authority, the day that you guys are supposed to take over, you already had three soldiers dead, six very seriously injured, and two more wounded in action before you even start your time on the ground in control. So imagine that, you know, this is just like the worst

• 50:49Jocko Willink?

  case scenario. And I remember it very clearly because, you know, we, we actually went like Colonel McFarland said, can you go and talk to Colonel Dean, you know, just like, see what he needs, see if you can help him. And that's exactly what we did. But, you know, we went into his office and it was like, here's a guy that is looking at another eight months, a year, who knows how long, to be in this area of operations, and he's already taken, you know, lost three guys before that time clock even starts ticking.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 51:26Jocko Willink?

  What do you remember about the turnover there?

• 51:29Speaker 02

  I remember ECP three. That was pretty crazy. I was in a Bradley at the time and I remember we saw the explosion go off and we're like, what the heck was that, man? So we're looking at the portholes and stuff and you see all the smoke coming up and we're like, come on, let's get out of here. Let's go, let's go help them. Because we heard it was our guys that got hit or the mid team, Siren Garza and Siren Reinhardt were on there. So we're like, we gotta go help our guys, you know? Finally, we got the old case. We ran out there and I remember hopping out of the Bradley and running up and this one Iraqi dude was shot in his thigh. And we're helping him out. And then I remember looking up and seeing this

• 52:12Speaker 02

  lieutenant run out of his vehicle, got shot right in the back of his calf. The front of his calf got blown out. And I was just like, man, this is crazy. We're starting Reinhardt. He's like a, he was pretty cool, man. He was a good dude, but um, I remember him just, they got hit when they were sleeping. And I guess this big old truck came rolling in there and just exploded on them. I remember getting an award too, because I helped with the crispy critters, the Iraqi guys. There's like eight dead Iraqi guys. So I helped.

• 52:45Jocko Willink?

  Like burned in a

• 52:45Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:46Jocko Willink?

  Vehicle or were they on the, in a barracks?

• 52:49Speaker 02

  They were in barracks. Yeah, they were all, they were gone. But starting Reinhardt, I remember him going over this embankment, shooting all pissed off at these guys. I remember looking at them thinking, man, this dude's badass, you know, like, yeah. But I remember also, I remember Colonel Dean over there shooting.

• 53:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 53:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:10Jocko Willink?

  It's interesting reading this book, you know, it's like, hey, is that the best spot for battalion commander to be in?

• 53:17Speaker 02

  I know.

• 53:17Jocko Willink?

  Nope. But guess what? The enemy doesn't care. The enemy doesn't see that you're a lieutenant colonel or you're a private. Like they're, they're gonna do something, they're gonna do it. You gotta react to it.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  I remember my two son Tommy, Doc, tell Colonel Dean to get down, stay down. I was like yelling, like, Colonel, I'm like, sir, get down. He's just like, he's over there smoking his stogie. Yeah.

• 53:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's awesome. Um, so as you guys are taking over, how did, how did you feel? Here you are, you've been there for what? Probably a week or something like that? And you've already had all these casualties, lost three guys, uh, uh, Tribble, Love and, and Crombie. These guys are, you know?

• 53:56Speaker 02

  Tribble was probably the most heartfelt one because Tribble was a good friend of mine. And, uh, knowing that he got hurt and got killed and the way he got killed was pretty sad to me. But I'm glad.

• 54:09Jocko Willink?

  What made it, uh, what made that one hard, particularly hard?

• 54:12Speaker 02

  Well, just because we were just good friends. We'd always be boxing in the back of the Bradley and stuff, you know, just being stupid. You know, all of us, just the camaraderie that you build with all the soldiers. You, I guess we called them each other a team. We were like a team too. So, you know, I mean, uh, yeah, it was just pretty sad.

• 54:33Jocko Willink?

  So you got like Colonel Dean with the burden of having all these soldiers and thinking about, hey, I'm gonna lose, I'm gonna lose more of these soldiers.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:43Jocko Willink?

  And then, but for you on the front lines, your burden is like, hey, I'm gonna lose my friends and I might die myself.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely. The way I felt was like, as long as you give up, you give up to the fact that you're probably gonna die, you're better off. Once you resign to that fact, then you know, you kind of kick ass, you know, you do your thing.

• 55:02Jocko Willink?

  That seems to be the most common theme of just like, if you're scared at being paranoid and worrying about dying or being wounded all day long, I, I can't even see how you'd get outside the wire, you know? If that's what you're thinking about, I can't see how you'd get outside the wire if you were like, today could be the day. It's like, yeah, today could be the day and that's the way it is, you know? As opposed to today might be the day and I better try and avoid it at all costs. It's like that, that

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:30Jocko Willink?

  must be horrifying for guys.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  But I guess as long as you resign to the fact you're gonna die, you're gonna be okay. I guess that's the way I felt. I mean, and I felt, I was just wondering like, like who's gonna die today or something? Cause we were in contact every day. Almost seemed like that.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  I think it was, they said we couldn't be in one spot for more than 13 minutes without getting attacked.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Kept it moving, keep it moving. Especially during our day patrols.

• 55:59Jocko Willink?

  And you guys were mostly working into meme.

• 56:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:02Jocko Willink?

  Uh, so we talked about it with Ryan, but what did the, what did the day, what did a day look like for you? Normal day.

• 56:09Speaker 02

  Kind of like Warfare, the movie Warfare, like that's a Monday for us.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was crazy, man. I loved, I, a lot of good times, a lot of bad times, you know?

• 56:23Speaker 02

  We get times where like when we get in firefights, we jack them all up and leave them dead, you know? That was a good day. But, you know, sometimes our guys got hurt too.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I lost my, one of my best friends, Christopher Swanson, out there. And I went through two squad leaders in one week.

• 56:43Jocko Willink?

  How'd that happen?

• 56:44Speaker 02

  Michael Muir and, and Swanson.

• 56:48Jocko Willink?

  So Michael Muir is the guy that you, that you dragged out of the street? But he was wounded and he's going home.

• 56:53Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, well, he got shot. It was weird. We were right there by the water tower, the big water tower off of Spears, I guess. I, that was funny too, just talking about the streets names and, and Ramadi, how they're named all after hot chicks. And football teams. And football teams, yeah, like Spears and Love Hewitt and all this stuff and crazy stuff, but yeah.

• 57:20Jocko Willink?

  So you were talking about, so, so what happened with Swanson?

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Uh, Swanson, we, we had originally, well, we should start with Muir first, kind of go through that whole week.

• 57:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, let's go.

• 57:31Speaker 02

  So, sorry, Muir, um, we, we, we had heard that they had a cache of weapons underneath the water tower. And so we got sent out to go check that out. So we patrolled out there and.

• 57:44Jocko Willink?

  So was this during your time, uh, like the eight hours a day that you were patrolling?

• 57:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 57:50Jocko Willink?

  So you guys get a call from the talk?

• 57:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:53Jocko Willink?

  From the battalion talk and they say, hey, we get intel right now that there's weapons by the water tower.

• 57:59Speaker 02

  Well, we were prepared for this already.

• 58:01Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so it was pre-prepared?

• 58:02Speaker 02

  It was pre-prepared. So we went out there and, uh, of course, you know, we have to walk out there because the Bradley's can't go certain areas because there's IED written, written places, you know?

• 58:12Jocko Willink?

  And again, for you civilians that are listening, think about what he just said. There's so many IEDs in the ground that you can't send Bradley's in because most of the. IEDs are meant for vehicles because that's a much better target for the enemy. You know, they'd much rather take out a vehicle and and kill Americans than just kill Americans. There the the burning tank is very good propaganda for the moog.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, definitely.

• 58:41Jocko Willink?

  So they put in big bombs. Fortunately, they would sometimes be, uh, uh, you know, activated by the tank itself or the vehicle itself. And so it would be easier and safer to be on foot.

• 58:56Speaker 02

  Oh, definitely.

• 58:57Jocko Willink?

  So that's why you guys are foot patrolling to this water tower as opposed to just taking Brad's in there. All right, so you guys are on foot patrol. Sorry, I'm trying to

• 59:05Speaker 02

  No worries, no worries.

• 59:06Jocko Willink?

  Describe it a little bit.

• 59:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so, uh, we we set up, uh, uh,

• 59:14Speaker 02

  we had set up, uh, uh, what the hell? Sorry, um.

• 59:21Speaker 02

  We set up security, sorry, around the area. I have brain farts, man, TBIs, too many TBIs.

• 59:28Jocko Willink?

  It's all good, man.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we set up security around the area and, uh, sorry, we heard one gunshot just go off. Sorry, I got shot and he's lying in the center of this intersection and he's screaming. So I run over by across the street and run over to where, uh, Lieutenant Blackstone was. And I was trying to get Mike, I was trying to get Sergeant Muir to to crawl over towards me because, you know, we all heard about the the old scenario that every trains for like, you know, don't run out there because there's a sniper out there, he's gonna smoke you. But I got tired of hearing him screaming. I'm not tired of it, I just didn't want to hear him screaming because it was it's kind of sad. See your friend screaming.

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I kept trying to get him to crawl towards us and he couldn't. So I was like, and I remember seeing his his the bullet went in his left thigh and opened up a big old, big old hole in his inner thigh, went underneath his right and that's actually came out the back of his butt. But we, I didn't know, I didn't see that he was shot in the right leg. Only, I was just worried about that big, the big open wound in his left thigh. Cause I was thought it might have taken him from oral or something, but there wasn't hardly any blood, so. That's a good sign. Yeah, definitely. So I just told Lieutenant Blackstone, I'm like, hey man, I'm gonna run out there and snatch him up. I'm not gonna let, leave him out there. So I yelled out to everybody pulling security. I go, just run out three sixty, just gunfire, man. Just cover my ass. So as soon as I hit that, that ground, started running, started zigzagging, I'm like, my head, I'm thinking, please don't shoot me, please don't shoot me.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  And bullets start snapping at me right off the bat. And so I just kinda zigzagged and I slid on top of him and I grabbed him by his IBA and I told him, we get him out of there and I just dragged his ass. There we go. And then Lieutenant Blackstone and our interpreter helped me out. Last few feet as I got him over to the, the corner where we're at. Got him under some cover and I started working on him immediately. And I remember everybody screaming, all the chaos that goes down when, you know, somebody, one of your brothers gets hit.

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  And I'm just kinda trying to yell at everyone, like, everybody shut the hell up, you know, like, I got it, I got this, don't worry about him. And so they were trying to call in our, our support element. So we had a couple of Humvees roll up. And I'm trying to ask guys to help me get him up and some of the guys were kinda like, just kinda, you know, you can never really tell how it goes on in people's minds. This was the first time though. I remember Sergeant Randall was like apologizing, like, man, he's like, I'm sorry. He's like, cause some of the guys weren't listening. They were just standing around watching me work out. I'm trying to get him up. I got a tourniquet around his leg and I, I packed his wound up with curl X and wrapped it with an ace wrap.

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then we threw him in the back of the Humvee. So his legs are all up, you know, the Humvee is a big old hump in the back. His legs are all up there and I'm on top of him working and we're, we're driving down Spears, just racing and Molnix is just dumping rounds, trying to clear the road for us. But uh, yeah, it's one of those moments that we can't talk about.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  Sorry, but yeah. And back to Charlie Med. Yeah. And, and that's when he, his lips started going cyanotic, which is blue. He's going into shock really bad. So, and I always used to try to make my, my patients like laugh a little bit. So he's like, bro, I damn shot in my other leg too. So I started doing a blood sweep on him and my finger went in a bullet hole. Right below his nuts saying, well, I got bad news. I got some good news. Which one do you want to hear first? He's like the bad. I go, yeah, your shot. The good news is both your twig and berries are still there, man. So he starts laughing. So he kind of brought a little color back in his face. Yeah.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  But, yeah, and then we get a Charlie man. They're, they're pretty tight. We called it in already. So they were already waiting for us and we got in there. And I remember the crew, the, the all the mags running out there with the litter, litter teams and stuff to pull them in there. I remember getting out of the vehicle. My hands were covered in his blood. I'm like, man. I asked one of the medics. I'm like, hey, do you have any place where I could clean off my, my hands and stuff? And they're like, oh yeah, come over here. So. And then I get called in. I had a hot weapon on my chest. I'm four. I, it's still, you know, ready to rock and

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  and they, they're like, hey, he wants to talk to you for a minute. And so I was like, okay. So I started walking in there. No, you can't take your weapon inside here. So I'm like, okay. So like, hey, doc, we got your weapon. So I walked in there and we're seeing all these docs working on him and and he called me over and I was like, he's like, thank you, bro. And shook his hand and then that's when it first started to show. I was like, hey, doc. You gotta get back out there. You guys are still in the active firefight right now. So I was like, all right, bro. So I'll see you after. See you after. And that's when we left. And went back out there.

• 1:04:20Jocko Willink?

  You took the same Humvee?

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:22Jocko Willink?

  The Kazakov Humvee took you right back out there, huh?

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Yep. We finished off our patrol.

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  We couldn't even find the enemy after that.

• 1:04:31Jocko Willink?

  No, I'm sure you guys scared the hell out of them.

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  Probably. I don't know. I hate that.

• 1:04:36Jocko Willink?

  What about that weapons cache? Did you find that?

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  I don't even think so. I don't even think there was a weapons cache there. But yeah, and then that was 18th July, 20th July. I got wounded.

• 1:04:49Speaker 02

  So I got my purple heart.

• 1:04:50Jocko Willink?

  And would you get blown up? What happened on that one?

• 1:04:52Speaker 02

  Uh, we were moving right by Jolie. And right by the Blue Mosque. And we were passing right by there and I remember walking down the open area. The I was remembering my head telling myself, hey, pick up your pace, man. You're out in the open right here. Soon as I said that in my head, I started picking up my pace. I look over to my right. And it's like everything went slow motion. I see this rocket skip and bounce and pop. They shot RPG and it popped in the air and I remember seeing Raymond and and it's pretty quiet. They got swept off their feet.

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  And I guess as I was running and another, another one popped and it's peppering my whole left side. So I had a like, they, they thought I was shot in my shoulder and stuff, but I wasn't. But I didn't realize that, that even something popped right behind me. And so, uh, Luca Bills, like comedy in combat, man. Luca Bills down on the ground. I'm above him, shooting it, right? And I'm firing and one of my hot brass went in his neck. And he's like, God damn it. I'm like, I'm sorry, bro. Pop, pop. I'm sorry. And he reaches up and one, another one of my hot brass goes inside his sleeve.

• 1:05:54Jocko Willink?

  Damn dude.

• 1:05:55Speaker 02

  And so he's like, oh, God damn it. And I'm laughing, right? And they shoot, there's bullets smacking right behind me and stuff and I'm shooting. And I'm laughing. I'm like, I'm sorry, bro. I'm sorry.

• 1:06:04Jocko Willink?

  Dude, hot brass is hot brass, bro.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  I hate that.

• 1:06:08Jocko Willink?

  It's very hard not to add to that.

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. That was one of the things where they would take like the big cans of vegetable oil. And they would cut a hole in it and they had those seventy two million or two rockets and they would put them in there. And they would just wire it like all the way down the street. Hook it up to a cell phone. They would detonate it. Like they just sit in a window and just sit, like set it off.

• 1:06:29Speaker 02

  I used to hate when they, they stripped the wires down just so it's like a small little fine copper wire. You couldn't even see with a naked eye unless you got close and they'd run that stuff all over the place. And then they detonate it.

• 1:06:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, they were. They were definitely professional at making professionals that making IEDs.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, definitely.

• 1:06:48Jocko Willink?

  That's for damn sure.

• 1:06:49Speaker 02

  Yes, they were.

• 1:06:51Jocko Willink?

  What happened um with uh Sashard and Swanson?

• 1:06:54Speaker 02

  And so Swanson, I, well, let me finish this and so um yeah, so me and Lugabell, sorry. I'll get this one here.

• 1:07:04Jocko Willink?

  No, it's all good, no.

• 1:07:05Speaker 02

  Me and Lugabell started a um started, we're like, hey man, we need to get out of here because we're in on the open right there. We only had this wall on the right side of us to cover us. We were shooting at these guys with the muzzle flashes coming from the stupid mosque in these houses nearby. And so um we go, we gotta run down this, go check on Raymond and Spree Quetta. And so um we start, I go, let's start running down. And so I'm shooting, I remember the glass breaking because all these stores were right there. I remember the glass busting from them shooting at us and I remember just running, shooting like this when I am for. And uh yeah, it was crazy, man. Then we we all met up, right? And we start shooting down the street, like walking like reservoir dogs, that's the way I felt at the time, like just walking down the street like reservoir dogs, shooting and then uh.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  We go in this house and I remember doing a uh uh, what the heck, uh, what's his name? Waterboy style, I went woo, boom, like retard strain, you know, I knocked down this big old gate. And I remember Raymond and me, we start clearing this house and uh this dude coming up, Mister Mister. Yeah, I got him by the hair and when I grabbed him by the hair to put him down the ground, I remember all this blood dripping from my arm. I'm like, dude, I'm hit. Raymond's like, hey, bro, you're shot in your shoulder. I'm like, no, I'm not. I started moving my shoulder and he's like, yeah, you're shot, bro. I'm like, no, I'm not, whatever. Anyway, so um yeah, so at that time, we had done so many rounds. I went through my whole combat load. I had three quarters of a magazine left.

• 1:08:35Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that was a pretty mean firefight.

• 1:08:39Jocko Willink?

  How'd it wrap up?

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  Um, so our support elements started showing up and so we started directing fire. And they started dumping rounds and then uh the rest of our squad, that's where our teams are rolling up. Cause I thought for sure that somebody's out there dead or dying, you know, cause they does a well. Well planned to ambush on us, but we just fought through it as usual. And so that kind of scared them a little bit because they realized that we won't just. Cause they're usually S O P at the time was just to blow through an ambush and just keep on rocking, you know, but we we take it back to them. Yeah.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  I think that's one of the very few times we actually got air support and got they dropped a J dam or something.

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  Oh, nice.

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  Buildings. I think that's a firefight. I don't know.

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  They did a compass call. I used to hate that compass call. Remember that? They fly the jets or they try to set off all the. They set off frequencies or whatever, trying to set off IDs. Yeah. Flying IDs, but yeah. And so, uh, I remember starting for we we make it all back in the house and we're all bumping chests like, yeah, that was crazy, man. You know, and, uh, well, I was making sure everybody's okay. And I forgot I was hurt. And then, uh, one of the guys says, hey, doc, you're all bleeding, man. What's up? I'm like, oh yeah, I forgot about me. So I started dropping my gear and stuff and I remember Lieutenant Blackstone calling it in and starting for platoon sergeant. Uh, the radio and he's like, hey, doc's hit, doc's hurt. And I remember silence.

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  And then I remember starting for coming back like, well, is is he gonna be evac or what? And I remember, um, uh, Tim Blackstone looking at me going. Hey, bro, you know, like, what did you evac? And I'm like, no, man, let's try to mic this. Hell, yeah. I'm like, just try to mic this. So strap me up. So they patched me up and we went back out there. Hell, yeah. And I remember, I remember, um, Colonel Dean was out there. We were gonna go back out there to go find out, see how many people we killed, see if we. See where they were shooting at us from. So me and me and Swanson were walking together and, uh, I remember. Tenor Colonel Dean yelling at us like, hey, guys, watch out. They just started firing RPG at you guys from that side. Like Roger checks her, you know, like whatever.

• 1:10:51Speaker 02

  We just, he didn't even say anything about me. I'm all bloodied up and bandaged up and stuff.

• 1:10:57Speaker 02

  I look like a mummy probably, but yeah, I love Colonel Dean. He's such a good guy. That's when Swanson got shot? No, and then after that, that I ended up going to, um, this was pretty cool, man. Cause um, when we got back, um, back on Faba Ramadi. I remember my two sergeant, my first sergeant were waiting for us because he knew I was hurt. And I remember I grabbed my aid bag because I never used to go out, out on patrols with an aid bag because they'd shoot me because they knew I was a medic. So I used to have a, a trauma pouch that I'd be able to take care of like four or five casualties.

• 1:11:35Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, anyway, so I grabbed my aid bag out of the back of Bradley and we're walking out and they're both looking at me like shaking their heads like, God dang doc, like what the hell? And I'm like, well, whatever. And I remember I told Swanson, they're like, get him to Charlie Med and get him patched up. And I got sent out, they evac me to, to, uh, Anaconda. Okay. Real quick. And then, uh, I was there for a day. I remember thinking, man, my wife's gonna flip out when she hears about this. And, uh, Did you call her and tell her what's up? When I got to Anaconda, I was able to. I'm like, I'm sure you probably heard, but I'm, I'm fine. I just want to let you know that. They heard about what? Because they were calling her. She get like three o'clock in the morning calls. Like guys got hurt or you guys got dead.

• 1:12:19Speaker 02

  You know, and so I figured that they'd call her. Nobody called her. So she's all panicked at that moment. I was like, oh man, sorry. But yeah, and then, uh, ended up flying back to Ramadi. And I went back on patrol and, uh, twenty second of July was when Swanson got killed. That was a whole shit show, man. We, we originally moved into this, this part of town in Ramadi. I forgot where, I forgot what it was called, but the people there were, were more, uh, they were cool with us. And so we sat down, drank some chai with them. And I remember Christopher Swanson, his family sent a bunch of like kid toys and stuff like bears and

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  basketballs and soccer balls and all kinds of stuff. So we gave him all this stuff. And we were about to go out to go set up an SKT at the White Apartments. Yeah. And so we, we moved out. I remember Spree Quetta fell in the, remember the, like the Shit trenches. Yeah, shit trenches. Fell in one of those, I don't know how he did that, but they put him back in the Bradley, sent him back. And so we, we patrolled Ben there. Made it into the White Apartments to set up an SKT. So we're all set up and uh, um, I remember we get the call that they wanted to pull us off that. And I remember telling Chris, I'm like, man, I have a bad feeling about this. Hey, bro, this is what we do. I was sitting on the couch, chilling like on the throne.

• 1:13:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. For people that are listening, SKT is a small kill team. It's basically a sniper overwatch position that you guys were setting up where you're gonna be able to be in a relatively secure posi- relatively, very relatively secure, but at least you're, you're not out in the open, but you can keep an eye on what the enemy's doing. And in, interdict if you need to. And so that's what you guys were doing. And then you get called to go and do something else. What did they want you guys to go do?

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  I guess there was a possible trigger guy, a possible trigger man. And he was supposedly in this call center right on Spears. So they call us out there. So we, we pack up all our stuff. We start moving out. You know, wherever duty calls, we're gonna move out to. And I remember thinking in my head, I'm like, man, I got a bad feeling about this today. And as soon as we hit Spears, one of the main roads that's riddled with IEDs, um, this car didn't want to stop. I mean, Raymond, we're in the the rear of the pack, rear of the team. So we're moving up the street and uh, this car didn't want to stop. So we both shot at this car. And so I was thinking, man, this is already starting off pretty bad. So we started moving, move up and we get to this house where the supposedly grid coordinate

• 1:14:53Speaker 02

  was because they had an AUV up there.

• 1:14:57Speaker 02

  That's watching these dudes, I guess, and we're like, there's no call center here. You know, so we go in this house and same time, I guess, that there was a a couple of guys paralleling us on a stupid moped, stupid scooters. And so, uh, yeah, they were watching us and um, I remember going inside and talking with the owner of this house and stuff. We're like, hey, where's this call center at? And he's like, there's no call center, sir. Maybe across the street. So, um, I remember hearing two gunshots going off up top and I called in my internal comms. I'm like, hey, what's going on up there? And Raymond's like, oh, those guys on the bike. I took them out. And so we ended up going, um, we ended up leaving that house, running across Spears

• 1:15:43Speaker 02

  to this mechanic shop. It's a wild goose chase, man. The whole day was a wild goose chase. It was just bad.

• 1:15:51Speaker 02

  It's mechanic shop and nothing's there and we're all like, we're all smoked because you know, you start bounding and running around and stuff. And so we, we end up going across back, right back to White Apartments. Right back where we came from and uh, I went around the, the, the, our squad split in half and half of us went this way and me, Swanee, and Ten Blackstone went this other way. And we see these guys walking down the street and they had like these tracksuits on that, that I guess those are the guys they were talking about. So we snatched them up and pulled them in this bakery. And Swanston and the rest of the squad went across the street and it was just me and Ten Blackstone, his RTO and Raymond.

• 1:16:37Speaker 02

  And we're searching these guys and the rest of the squad was across the street. And I remember searching this guy and looking out the front door and we started taking fire. I remember being all pissed off. I wasn't even, I wasn't scared or nothing. I just remember being pissed like, god damn, can we have one day that we don't get shot at? It's from what I was thinking about. So I zip tied this dude and I threw him on the ground. I told him if he moves, I was gonna shoot him. But just try to scare him a little bit, but and uh, all of a sudden we hear a heavy machine gun started blowing through the walls. And so we all hit the deck and we're lying there. And we're looking over and seeing Blackstone screaming in the radio, we're under heavy contact. And all the stuff, I remember telling Roy, I'm like, don't you leave me here, bro.

• 1:17:21Speaker 02

  You know, it's crazy. And so. I remember the internal comms was screaming up. And, uh, um.

• 1:17:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess, uh, I remember yelling at Blackstone, hey, somebody's hurt across the street or something. So we stacked up on the wall and he was the number one man out, I was the number two. And, uh, uh, Roy, our T O was the number three guy. So we went out that door and I remember thinking. If we're gonna get killed, man, fuck it. Let's just do this right now. You know, I'm not gonna get my head chopped off somewhere, you know, becoming. Becoming some, um, cause we were so much under fire, man. And we're, I should start shooting to the left of the muzzle flashes and ten blocks start shooting to the right. And we ran across the street and. Raymond never made it across, cause he said that we were so much under fire. That he, there's no way he would have made it across the street.

• 1:18:14Speaker 02

  He's like, I don't even know how you guys made it, man. And I remember. It's kind of funny too, cause the ten blocks started slowing down. So I was like, sir. I went, don't slow down, keep moving. And a bullet ripped through. His camel back, he left a perfect hole through his camel back. Like less than a foot in front of me. And so that's how crazy it was. He thought he was shot, cause he felt the warm water dripping down his back. And I was like, you're fine, sir. And I guess my eyes looked all bug dyed, cause we made it in the house where all the brothers were. And, um. Um, yeah, he looked back at me and he's like, what? And I said, nothing, nothing, you're good, sir. Just keep on moving. And so we went up. And I went up the stairs and I remember seeing this guy lying there on his back. And I didn't even realize it was Chris. Chris was a really good friend of mine and, uh.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  And we're still engaged in contact. So there's bullets flying through the doorway up on the roof and he's just lying there. And I got up to him and I saw it was Chris.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, uh, he was gone already. He taking a bullet to his mouth, went up the back of his head.

• 1:19:19Speaker 02

  It's pretty sad. And so I started screaming down at the ten blocks and I'm like, hey, sir. I'm like, Chris is gone. He's like, Anderson, he started screaming at me. He's like, Doc, he's like, you. Do whatever you can to save his life. I'm like, I'm like, shot in the head. What can I do? And everybody just went silent.

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  And so, um, yeah, I tried again, but I, I told Sergeant O, he's a new guy. That was his very first foot patrol with us and he's already in the shit with us. And so I got Chris up on my shoulder and I started carrying him down. Down those steps and, uh, I remember him almost slipping off my, my shoulder. And I started screaming at the guys, I go, hey, man, I need some help. I don't want him to fall off my shoulders. You know, I don't know if anybody knows this, like he carry a, a body. Like guys are heavy, you know? Especially off a battlefield, so.

• 1:20:09Speaker 02

  And you're all smoked because you're bounding and moving around, you know, a lot of people don't understand that kind of stuff. You got smoked, you get. And so I was like, doesn't anybody have any lungs in their breath to help me out here? All the brothers started just staring at me, all the guys started staring at me. I'm like, he's falling off my shoulders. And then I guess. Uh, Sergeant Randall came running in like a, like an angel. Just came running in and he's like, what's up? How did you come from? I was wondering, but I guess Raymond. The Bradley's couldn't find us because they had a different map they're working off. Yeah. So they couldn't find us. You hear us and engage this contact. But they couldn't find us. And I guess just by pure luck, the driver saw Raymond popping his head out the door. And, and pull up and, yeah.

• 1:20:52Speaker 02

  And so Sergeant Randall came on up, I go, hey, he's falling off my shoulders. Sergeant grabbed him. He grabbed him and ran out the door and didn't see him anymore after that.

• 1:21:01Speaker 02

  And so I remember us just kind of going through it. I remember thinking in my head like, God dang, that dude was a warrior, you know, he was like. He was someone like you, you know, somebody I really looked up to. Very big inspiration towards me.

• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, he just got hit with a mortar round.

• 1:21:17Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:21:17Speaker 01

  Like a week before.

• 1:21:18Speaker 02

  We were in ID blast on a.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  So he just got hit and he was walking around with strapped on his ass and. Still going out every day, like. Still in the fight.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  I was in the Bradley when he got hit.

• 1:21:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I used to love that stuff. Me and him always used to. Put our legs up on the Bradley's and the ramp went down and step out, you know, it's cool. It was awesome. We used to do stuff, stupid stuff, you know, it's funny things that you think about, the goofy stuff that we used to do. Yeah. But yeah, Sergeant, Sergeant Swanson was a. He's a. He, he, that affected me really bad. Especially afterwards, cuz uh, you know, they do the angel flight and all that stuff and I remember just getting back to Bradley and we're all kinda wasted.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  And uh, smoked and stuff and uh, I remember Sergeant Heinrich. He was our TC at the time, he gave him down, he's like, I hope Chris is okay. I'm like, dude, he's gone, man. Every time Sergeant Heinrich, he can just shut the, sat down in his uh, you know, in the little, he's the Bradley commander. Sat down, little seat in there and shut the door. Turned the turret and just kinda just saying much after that.

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember we got back to, towards the angel flight, I remember. They wanted his helmet and his nods and all his sensitive items, so I had all that stuff. Had his weapon, I was like, why the hell did they want all that stuff, but. Yes, they wanted, they held the angel flight for us to come back to give it to them, so I handed it off. Gave my salute and the helicopter flew off and I remember losing my stuff. I remember going underneath the staircase and started balling, but I thought it was by myself. Cuz I wanted some alone time by myself, so I went in this dark spot underneath the staircase and started balling.

• 1:23:02Speaker 02

  That's when it all hit me. And I remember Sergeant Porter coming out of the darkness and just snooping, scooping me up and hugging me and telling me, hey, Doc, yeah, get back out there. I go, well, I just didn't get my shit together. Just give me a moment, I just need this moment.

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

  And uh, yeah. And so he's like, you need to get back out there, Doc. I go, I got this, I got this. I just need a moment.

• 1:23:25Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, that was pretty cool Sergeant Porter do that.

• 1:23:31Speaker 02

  That was a bad day.

• 1:23:35Speaker 01

  Also just a Monday.

• 1:23:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was.

• 1:23:38Jocko Willink?

  What'd you say, Ron?

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  Also just a Monday.

• 1:23:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you, you know, you mentioned the movie Warfare and, you know, I said, what was, what was a regular day out there like? And you said, like the movie Warfare, um, and uh,

• 1:23:54Jocko Willink?

  When, when did you, did you go see it in the theater? Did you watch it at home?

• 1:23:57Speaker 02

  I watched it at home. I watched it right before. Came out here.

• 1:24:01Jocko Willink?

  Oh, really?

• 1:24:01Speaker 02

  I was trying to get my, back in my headset. I might get back in my head, back in Ramadi.

• 1:24:05Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  Trying to remember some stuff.

• 1:24:07Jocko Willink?

  That'll, that movie will put your head back in Ramadi.

• 1:24:10Speaker 02

  Especially all the rounds going off, the way they sound. Sounds almost just like getting shot at.

• 1:24:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and I think that's, you know, that was kind of one of the underlying themes of that movie is like

• 1:24:21Speaker 02

  The realistic.

• 1:24:22Jocko Willink?

  Just, this is what's happening and you don't know why it's happening. You don't understand it. And you're gonna go out there, it's gonna be total chaos and then you're gonna, like, leave and some moos are gonna walk out. I thought everyone's going, you know, they should just show the moos walking out afterwards. Like, what's that? It's like, that's what's going on. Like, they don't have to stand and fight against you. They can just walk away.

• 1:24:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:24:44Jocko Willink?

  And watch you for a few hours, watch you suffer and then they can, once you leave, they walk back out and go terrorize the family again or do whatever they're gonna do. So that was a, I think that one of the underlying themes of it was like, this is just another day.

• 1:25:01Speaker 02

  Right. It was.

• 1:25:04Jocko Willink?

  Um, and then, like you said, you gotta put your gear on and go back in the field.

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:11Jocko Willink?

  The, the war is not gonna stop. The enemy's not gonna stop attacking and you gotta get your gear back on and go back out there.

• 1:25:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, take a little break after that.

• 1:25:19Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:20Speaker 02

  So I went to two squall eaters in one week and I got hurt. And so I, I went out the next patrol, next couple of patrols and I, I just got overwhelmed a little bit. You know, I got emotional, started, kept thinking about Chris. And so I told, uh, Sergeant Ford, I'm like, hey man, I need a break for a minute.

• 1:25:39Jocko Willink?

  So what'd he do with you?

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  He just said, I mean, kick back and talk and help out.

• 1:25:44Jocko Willink?

  Just, just, yeah, just gave you like a, uh, some time not going on patrol?

• 1:25:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause I was on patrol every single day.

• 1:25:53Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:54Speaker 02

  And we never got any breaks, especially the semantics. So yeah, I was always on patrol.

• 1:26:00Jocko Willink?

  How long, how many days did he give you before he was like, hey, man?

• 1:26:04Speaker 02

  You gave me as many days I wanted, but I ended up, I felt like I was betraying my guy. So I had to get back out there. So I did.

• 1:26:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, cause his break was sitting in the talk, listening to what's going on on the radio. So you can't, not out there.

• 1:26:17Speaker 02

  You know, and after Penling got hit, Penning ended up losing both of his legs. I was in Newsweek because of that, took a bunch of combat photos.

• 1:26:25Jocko Willink?

  Oh, really?

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, crazy stuff. Yeah.

• 1:26:29Jocko Willink?

  When did the Newsweek come out? Did you know it came out?

• 1:26:31Speaker 02

  I didn't know until way after and I had a copy somewhere. I think my ex-wife has it somewhere. But yeah. And Penning got hit and there's a really famous photo of me holding his buddy hand. And yeah, I was holding his hand, holding him up, but yeah, it's pretty crazy stuff. I remember them pulling him in. Remember when Penning got hit?

• 1:26:54Jocko Willink?

  Where was that?

• 1:26:56Speaker 02

  He got hit with an ID and I guess he was in a, he was in a rally. He was in an up armored Humvee. He got hit pretty hard and I remember them bringing him in. He was just mangled. And I was remember sitting, cause I was a medic. They wanted to have a familiar face there. So I was like, hey, brother. Like, you okay? And I'm holding his hand all the time. I'm talking to him, trying to get him. You know, coherent, but he was out. I don't remember if he ever talked or showed anything, but. I remember holding his hand, talking to him and there's pictures of me. Just right there, holding his hand, trying to talk to him. And, and yeah, I stood by his side until we walked him in the OR. And the trauma teams out there in Ramadi were awesome.

• 1:27:39Jocko Willink?

  They were awesome.

• 1:27:40Speaker 02

  Heck, yeah, they were. I kinda got pissed at him when Sardar McCoole got shot though. Cause they shot that other Iraqi guy. His guts were sticking out of his belly and. I remember telling Doc, I'm like, hey man, take our guy in first, you know, because they're like, no, we gotta take this Iraqi dude in. I'm like, but he's the enemy, you know, what the hell?

• 1:28:00Jocko Willink?

  Oh, he was an actual, he was moosh?

• 1:28:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:03Jocko Willink?

  Like not an Iraqi soldier?

• 1:28:04Speaker 02

  No, he was moosh.

• 1:28:05Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 1:28:06Speaker 02

  And, uh, yeah, I, so I sat there and dealt with all that stuff. I told our first sergeant, I'm like, hey man, why don't you take his army cool back there first? And they'd say moosh, and they're like, well, it's like something that we have to do, you know, we help out everybody. You as a medic should know that. I'm like, no, I'm like, screw that, man. So to me, I would have left that back out there.

• 1:28:29Jocko Willink?

  And did what, uh, did you and I see each other or you guys saw me at Charlie Med at some point?

• 1:28:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:28:34Jocko Willink?

  What was that about?

• 1:28:35Speaker 02

  When Jolly got shot in the ear. I remember that. I remember meeting you there.

• 1:28:42Speaker 02

  I was, that was one of the times when I was taking a break and, uh, and, uh, Jolly, I was at, uh, Charlie Med when they brought Jolly in. And I remember you standing there and checking on our guy. That was pretty cool. Cause he was out on a mission with you guys.

• 1:28:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:00Speaker 02

  And you got shot and you're like, hey man, we knew who it was. We got him. We got him. We take care of you. We'll take care of him for you.

• 1:29:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah, that was, um, I always felt, I always felt good being able to tell you guys like, hey, we're gonna, we're gonna get these guys.

• 1:29:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, that makes me feel good too.

• 1:29:17Jocko Willink?

  We'll get, we got, we got people out there right now. They're gonna lay some of these bad guys out, man. Put them down. And I always liked the fact that that would come up on the radio, you know, it'd be like, you know, uh, it would, the call sign would come in and be like, you know, three enemy engaged with whatever three hundred win mag resulting in two enemy KIA and one enemy wounded. It'd be like, cool, we're getting it done, you know? And, and yeah, like you said, man, you guys were getting it done too. And as I started this whole podcast off by saying like, the amount of patrolling that you guys did on a day to day basis.

• 1:29:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:54Jocko Willink?

  And, you know, going out in that city over and over and over and over and over and over again.

• 1:30:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely. I used to love watching you guys. We'd drop off a couple of your guys off and you guys would disappear for a while and then we'd pull you guys out of running gunfights too. So a couple of times. That was pretty awesome.

• 1:30:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we, we wouldn't, we always say that we wouldn't have been able to do anything without the support of the Army and the Marine Corps because we didn't, we didn't have enough guys to QRF ourselves, you know, like we just didn't, you know, we, because we had guys split up all over the place. So if we got into trouble, we couldn't call ourselves. There was no, we didn't have the support to do it. So it was always you guys that, that came and pulled us out. So.

• 1:30:38Speaker 02

  We're always happy to do it too.

• 1:30:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, it's freaking appreciated.

• 1:30:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely. I remember us in the Marine Corps, we'd go to Chal, Chal, Chal Hall and talk shit to each other. Be like your side, because you know, you had the, the river right there. Was it the Euphrates?

• 1:30:54Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 1:30:55Speaker 02

  The Euphrates River running right in the centers of the city, separating to me, man, Ramadi proper.

• 1:31:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah, that's the Habania Canal. Because remember it splits off and the, and the Euphrates goes and then the, the Habania Canal runs south and that's what borders to me. And keeps to me separated from downtown Ramadi. Yeah, is that Habania Canal.

• 1:31:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember, uh.

• 1:31:19Speaker 02

  That was like, you didn't talk about. TBIs, man.

• 1:31:22Jocko Willink?

  Well, yeah, the Marine Corps, so the Marine Corps had a real bad AO, which was, um, kinda north of Michigan for the most part, even though they did have the Gov Center. And then they had everything north of Michigan, all the way up to the Euphrates. So they had a, you know, a really bad AO as well with the Ramadi Hospital in there and Firecracker. Yeah, those guys were, those guys were in, in terrible scenarios.

• 1:31:46Speaker 02

  We'd always talk smack along, that's right. And, uh, because we tell them, man, your AO is all jacked up. And like, hell no, we heard you guys in a firefight yesterday. You guys are all jacked up. We'd always talk to each other back and forth. I thought that was pretty funny.

• 1:32:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, my building, where my tactical operations center was, was kinda just across the Euphrates from the Marine Corps AO. And, but when we'd go to the rooftop, we could see the whole city. Like, no, not the whole city. We could see a lot of it. And you could just go out there at night and there'd just be firefights all over the place. It was, that was a lot different than being in Baghdad in, in like 2003, 2004. You know, you'd see, occasionally you'd see something going on. But Ramadi, if you want to see firefight, just go to the, just go outside. You're gonna see it.

• 1:32:27Speaker 02

  Heck yeah. Within 10 minutes, start shooting at you.

• 1:32:31Jocko Willink?

  Um.

• 1:32:34Jocko Willink?

  Now, you know, this is like July 22nd, you know, you still got all kinds of time left on this deployment for you guys. Um, and you know, you end up, you end up losing more guys. Um, September 13th, uh, Schaefer.

• 1:32:51Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:32:51Jocko Willink?

  And then, um, September 26th, uh, Len's Aaron.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  I remember that day because, uh, we just got off patrol and we were walking up our steps and starting land was coming down. Kind of bump elbows like kick ass, you know, just saying, hey, man, you guys take care of business out there. And I was lost in my song. I remember that day.

• 1:33:14Speaker 02

  Certain lands that sucked. I remember our guys finding, our guys finding his nods and stuff after that.

• 1:33:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, building on a roof like almost a block away.

• 1:33:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:24Jocko Willink?

  Well, how'd that, how'd that happen?

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  From the IED that he hit. It was so big that I think, uh, yeah, they found those nods, maybe not a block away, but very far away.

• 1:33:35Speaker 02

  They went in this random house.

• 1:33:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:38Speaker 02

  Cause I guess we had five target houses that were hidden and to catch bad guys, because we, you know, we set up a lot of missions like that too.

• 1:33:46Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:33:47Speaker 02

  Direct action stuff and so. Yeah. And I remember that they pulled off because, uh, um, they were trying to plan their last route and the sun had just came up. And so they went to this random house to go plan the route out to the last target house that they were going to hit.

• 1:34:03Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:34:04Speaker 02

  And, you know, we snuck in or the guy snuck in, snuck in, you know, instead of making a big noise and trying to breach the door and all this stuff, we used to just sneak in houses. I guess there's a big picture window and this guy took off running and, uh, and, uh, yeah, so that's when Korea ran inside and the guy pulled a gun out on them.

• 1:34:28Jocko Willink?

  How'd that work out for him?

• 1:34:29Speaker 02

  Well, the guy doing, yeah, yeah, the guy tried putting a gun behind his head and tried to pull the trigger and crit. It was a misfire. He lucked out, man. He ended up dumping all this whole freaking magazines dude's chest. And then this guy, this other guy chucked grenade out the window and and they're like fragging out and this new kid Johnson, it was his very first patrol, this replacement kid, like hit the deck and he didn't get, he didn't get hit at all. Yeah, it was crazy time.

• 1:35:00Jocko Willink?

  And that's his, that's one kid's first patrol?

• 1:35:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:35:05Jocko Willink?

  So do you start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel at some point or you start thinking about the end of deployment?

• 1:35:12Speaker 02

  I mean, not really, you know, because we still had a lot of time left.

• 1:35:15Jocko Willink?

  So you're just caught up in day to day?

• 1:35:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, just day to day, just hoping we all live through this, kind of a scenario, you know? Yeah, I started going back out on patrols and stuff and started doing our thing. We started taking less casualties because we started becoming way more aggressive. And, uh, yeah, we became extremely aggressive, trying to take after you guys. So we were doing a lot more direct action hit kind of stuff and catching bad guys was our main, our whole goal after that.

• 1:35:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it always seems to me that being more aggressive is actually safer.

• 1:35:53Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:35:53Jocko Willink?

  Like as opposed to being, being less aggressive seems to make you less safe.

• 1:36:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:36:00Jocko Willink?

  And taking the fight to the enemy and doing it on your terms as opposed to like doing it on their terms. Usually works out better, not always. I mean, you're still gonna, I mean, the whole, when you look at the whole battle of Ramadi in general, when we started pushing into the city aggressively, like definitely there's a spike in casualties and you know, it's your, the, the enemy attacks go up because you're in their face every day, you know? Yeah. When you're in their face every day, they're gonna come, they're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna bring it and they did. But over time.

• 1:36:31Speaker 02

  Worse back on them.

• 1:36:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, exactly. Over time, you start, you start making progress and that's like, you know, you could start to see, it sounds like even you could start to see like, oh yeah, we're, we're starting to make progress and we get better, you know, like there's some stuff that you just can't teach. You can't, you can't get from a turnover op, like you can't explain what to look for. You can't explain like what something looks like or what looks suspicious or, you know, something that would stand out to you after being down the same street, you know, twenty, twenty days in a row. Will stand out to you if there's some, you know, like a something's changed, something's different.

• 1:37:09Speaker 02

  Oh, definitely.

• 1:37:10Jocko Willink?

  Whereas if someone new shows up, they don't have that pattern recognition yet, you know? So that's, I would think another thing that's really helpful. That's one thing that, you know, when you guys are on these long ass deployments, even though it's like brutal, at the same time, you're gonna get really freaking good. You're gonna know the neighborhood, you're gonna know that every street, every building, the whole nine yards.

• 1:37:32Speaker 02

  We became really good at, at clearing houses and stuff. That was awesome.

• 1:37:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:36Speaker 02

  I mean, I used to look at my, my guys with pride, you know, like we're fucking badasses now. You know, we're kicking in doors and doing a lot, we're doing that every single day.

• 1:37:45Jocko Willink?

  They were badasses. Ain't no doubt about it. Ain't no doubt about it.

• 1:37:51Jocko Willink?

  So you start, you do, um, when, when do you guys start ramping up where you start knowing when your replacement unit's coming?

• 1:37:58Speaker 02

  In November, I guess, wasn't it?

• 1:38:01Jocko Willink?

  And yeah, how did that? Did you start getting more paranoid towards the end of deployment? Like?

• 1:38:07Speaker 02

  I don't think I did. I was just kind of like happy a little bit.

• 1:38:11Speaker 01

  We got, like you said, more aggressive. Like there was parts.

• 1:38:14Speaker 02

  We got pissed off.

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  Of the city that like, you know, for the longest time, nobody had even been into. And we're like, fuck it, like we're just gonna go. They haven't, they're not expecting us, so we're just gonna go in there. That's what we do. Just, you know, thunder runs down the street and just waiting to see the IDs and catch them off guard. Go there and do the same thing at nighttime and that was effective. Sounds reckless today, but it was effective.

• 1:38:40Speaker 02

  I remember doing this night, this night operation and uh, We had a couple of bad guys that we had to go get and I remember stacked up on this wall outside this house and there was a tank that was set up on OP right outside of Route Michigan, there was a tank out there. And I guess some moose guy set up a bomb underneath and it went off. I remember us just thinking in our heads, like, I remember looking at our guys, nobody even reacted. We just all went inside the house. We just did our thing, flowed through the house, cleared it, came outside and then I remember us walking and Sergeant Randall was like, hey man, watch out for that. That is a saw blade, little trigger. Those pressure plates.

• 1:39:23Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah, little pressure plate, saw blade. Separated from another saw blade type thing that will fold on itself, yeah.

• 1:39:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I'm like, what do we do about that? And he's like, no, just we'll call it in and let UOD figure it out. Just mark the grid. Cause we had a bunch of houses that we had to hit that night. Yeah, I remember thinking that this is awesome, man. I'm like, this is crazy stuff, you know, this is what I joined the army for.

• 1:39:51Jocko Willink?

  And then you guys, did you guys not get replaced? Like, did you guys do a turnover with another unit of your AO?

• 1:39:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, first ID I think it was, wasn't it?

• 1:40:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, but we set up cop dealer and that was our last mission. That's when my squad like walked all the way back, like.

• 1:40:11Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah, that's right.

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  Like four or five clicks, like just down through the city. Cause for whatever reason, they didn't come out there. And we didn't have any vehicles left. All our rattlers were blown up, all of our home vehicles were blown up. So like, we just walked by static positions to check in with them and they were watching us the whole time, but like. Yeah, they didn't like, they didn't, they didn't take over cop dealer. I don't know. I don't know if we scared them or what.

• 1:40:34Jocko Willink?

  Freaking crazy way to end deployment. It was a walk back.

• 1:40:39Jocko Willink?

  What do you remember about turnover ops with the guys? Were you like trying to explain to them the situation that they were facing?

• 1:40:45Speaker 02

  Kind of. I remember some of the guys were just like, oh man, this is crazy. I'm like, you'll be fine, man. Just keep your head on swivel and just be aware of your situational awareness, man. And just always watch over your guys, you know, since there were medics.

• 1:41:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:00Speaker 02

  So I always tell them, just make sure you guys are all good.

• 1:41:03Jocko Willink?

  Did you, uh, do you do any tattoos on anybody while you were in Ramadi?

• 1:41:06Speaker 02

  Never deployed.

• 1:41:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:08Speaker 02

  Never tattooed anybody when I was deployed. No way, dude. When would I have time?

• 1:41:12Jocko Willink?

  I was gonna say.

• 1:41:13Speaker 02

  When would I have time? Never. The only time that whenever we were gone, it was either at the gym or eating food at Chao Hall or sleeping.

• 1:41:22Speaker 02

  Or we had some downtime.

• 1:41:26Jocko Willink?

  How was the, so you, you, you're getting ready to go home? You're heading home. How was that? What was that? What was that emotionally like leaving Ramadi?

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  It's kinda sad. I felt like I left my heart there a little bit, you know, like I, I wish one day that we could go and travel back there, just kinda see how this town ended up, you know, like, well, we're two survivors, you know, they go up to like Normandy and stuff and just kinda like, you know, wow, kind of reminisce.

• 1:41:50Jocko Willink?

  I don't have that feeling yet.

• 1:41:51Speaker 02

  I don't have that yet.

• 1:41:52Jocko Willink?

  I don't have it yet. Like people are like, oh, you, you wanna go back there? I'm like, no, I don't. I don't wanna go back there. Maybe someday I will. Right now, I don't have any freaking desire to go back there at all. Occasionally, something like, it'd be interesting to look at it, like just stand up and walk around and not be like running around and moving from cover to cover. It might be a little bit interesting to do that, but no, I don't, I don't really have any, like, guys that go back to Vietnam, you know, guys that went back to the Hanoi Hilton, you know, after they were prisoners of war there for five, three, four, seven years or whatever, you know, like they go back there. I, I don't have that yet for, uh, for Iraq at all. Like, I don't wanna go back there. Um, I don't know.

• 1:42:34Speaker 02

  I feel like I have unfinished business, man. I really wanna.

• 1:42:38Jocko Willink?

  Maybe if it was just a freaking nicer place, you know what I mean? It's like a hot, dirty shithole. Like, I do not want to go back there. If it was like, maybe if it was like a tropical paradise, maybe I'd be like, oh yeah, I'll go back there and check it out.

• 1:42:50Speaker 02

  Check it out. Yep. I don't think so.

• 1:42:54Jocko Willink?

  So you get back to Germany once again?

• 1:42:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:58Jocko Willink?

  And how's the decompression this time?

• 1:43:01Speaker 02

  It's pretty crazy. I mean, I was kinda pissed off still. I was getting in fights and stuff. Just fighting these guys that hadn't been deployed. They were just kinda sitting in the rear with the gear, kinda deal. And these guys would always talk smack and stuff and I'd lose my shit on these guys. Start beating them up and stuff.

• 1:43:20Jocko Willink?

  Did you get in any trouble?

• 1:43:21Speaker 02

  Not really. I mean.

• 1:43:25Speaker 02

  We always police each other up, you know, we take care of each other. So I never was alone, you know, I had my guys with me. But yeah, this is my stuff. Sometimes every now and then.

• 1:43:34Jocko Willink?

  And then what was that? You got, you ended up, you were saying earlier, you got stationed at Walter Reed, right?

• 1:43:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then after that, I needed decompress. I got stationed in Walter Reed. I was there and I was in a cardiac step down ward.

• 1:43:47Jocko Willink?

  What's that?

• 1:43:48Speaker 02

  Like where they do a heart cast and stuff like that.

• 1:43:51Jocko Willink?

  What's a heart caster? You know what that is?

• 1:43:53Speaker 02

  They put in splints or something like that, you know.

• 1:43:57Jocko Willink?

  So are you working on guys that were coming from combat or are these like older veterans?

• 1:44:00Speaker 02

  These are older veterans and stuff, but I was also part of the incoming wounded warriors, like where I'd go in and process them. So whenever they had incoming guys that were coming from launch or something that, you know, these guys lost their legs and or they're all jacked up, you know, and I had to help them out. Plus, Penland was up there too, and Korea and all the guys that were injured from Ahmad, you were there too.

• 1:44:26Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that's kind of cool. You got to see those guys. How was it like welcoming or yeah, I guess welcoming these wounded guys? How's that affect you mentally?

• 1:44:36Speaker 02

  It was okay. I felt good because I remember seeing Sergeant Muir there afterwards. Yeah, it's kind of heartfelt thing. I was sitting in the chow hall. Eating some food and I hear this guy yell, hey, Doc. Turn around and Sergeant Muir.

• 1:44:49Jocko Willink?

  Damn dude.

• 1:44:50Speaker 02

  And he's walking over with his cane and he's like, I just want to say thank you. We hugged right there. And the whole place went silent. There's like hundreds of people in there and the whole place went silent. And I just remember looking around, we're both kind of crying and stuff. And he's like, thank you, bro, for saving my life, man. And I was like, man, you would have done the same thing for me, bro. It's kind of heartfelt moment there, you know? Yeah. Yep. And that was pretty cool.

• 1:45:19Jocko Willink?

  And so you keep that job for?

• 1:45:21Speaker 02

  I was there for a year and a half and I missed the line. So I re enlisted into the army. At this time, I was like, I, my original enlistment tour was six years. So then I re enlisted for four more. And then, uh, yeah, so.

• 1:45:38Speaker 02

  From, from there, I went to Fort Carson, Colorado. And so I wanted to get closer to home towards LA area. But I don't know.

• 1:45:48Jocko Willink?

  We're getting there, getting there. It's a little closer.

• 1:45:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:51Jocko Willink?

  Closer than Germany.

• 1:45:52Speaker 02

  Closer than Germany, closer than DC.

• 1:45:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:55Speaker 02

  That place was a dump. It's crazy how from one street to the next, how it turns into like really ghetto to like, you know, really nice. In Washington DC. It was cool. I met a lot of cool people there, a lot of cool nurses. I had to meet Bob Dole, a lot of.

• 1:46:12Jocko Willink?

  All right on.

• 1:46:13Speaker 02

  Secret Service agents and all this crazy stuff. So we had a special elevator, the gold elevator.

• 1:46:19Jocko Willink?

  The gold elevator.

• 1:46:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, the president would use and stuff and all that stuff. He had to have a certain clearance to get on the elevator and we're getting in it. And there was all these secret service dudes in there, all tacticaled out. They'd go in the interstitial floors on Walter Reed and go set up their counter sniper teams up there.

• 1:46:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's cool.

• 1:46:38Speaker 02

  Pretty cool stuff, yeah.

• 1:46:39Jocko Willink?

  Check. So your next assignment is with the fourth engineers, is that right?

• 1:46:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:46:46Jocko Willink?

  Did you, is that the unit you picked to go to?

• 1:46:49Speaker 02

  Uh, kind of. I wanted to go back in the line unit and I was, I was hoping for an infantry unit, but they sent me to fourth engineers.

• 1:46:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and I, I always have a good time talking to engineers.

• 1:46:59Speaker 02

  Route clearance.

• 1:47:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, because you, no one thinks, thinks engineers just build stuff and it's like, no, engineers freaking clear, clear roads for bombs.

• 1:47:09Speaker 02

  I hate.

• 1:47:09Jocko Willink?

  It's a freaking nightmare.

• 1:47:10Speaker 02

  I see it out on patrol, see it out when the vehicles, because they were all real slow.

• 1:47:14Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:47:15Speaker 02

  They'd be interrogating a possible ID or something, I'd get out. And nobody really told me anything because I was an experienced medic by that time. I remember walking up to like Taliban, you know, they, they, they looked apart and they're mad dogging you. I knew they were Taliban. I'd walk up to them and start talking smack to them. I remember my commander yelling at me, Anderson, what the hell are you doing? I'm trying to pick a fight. You know, I would tell them all kinds of crap, like, come on, get your guys out of here, man. Let's shoot this shit out right now.

• 1:47:43Jocko Willink?

  And this is, when did you deploy to Afghanistan then?

• 1:47:46Speaker 02

  This was two thousand and nine to ten.

• 1:47:49Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm. Yeah, that was a rough time. Where were you?

• 1:47:53Speaker 02

  Kandahar, RC cell.

• 1:47:55Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:47:56Speaker 02

  It's kind of cool because I had a little bit of rank on me about that time. So I was flying out all over Afghanistan because they they pushed out our guys all these different areas, these little, these little like little fobs here and there. So that's where I met Saren France at. He was on this little fob. Time little place, man.

• 1:48:14Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:48:15Speaker 02

  So I'd fly around helicopters and all this crazy stuff, just trying to check on my guys.

• 1:48:20Jocko Willink?

  You'd be checking on the medics that you had?

• 1:48:22Speaker 02

  No, checking on everybody.

• 1:48:23Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:48:24Speaker 02

  Guys and medics, making sure everybody got everything that they need.

• 1:48:26Jocko Willink?

  Got it. So but but is it would each one of these units have their own medic with them?

• 1:48:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:31Jocko Willink?

  That you were kind of overall in charge of, but you'd go out there and check on them and make sure they have what they needed and everything's cool?

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:48:37Jocko Willink?

  And how was that deployment?

• 1:48:39Speaker 02

  It was okay. We didn't really have that many casualties. I I got in there and they had just deployed from Iraq to Afghanistan. So they were, I I think I had like six months in Afghanistan that tour, something like that, seven months. Because they had already, when I got to the unit, they had already deployed. And so I was our, I was back there trying to train the guys up, all these new guys. Using my combat scenarios, trying to train them up and I was doing all these like the TC three.

• 1:49:13Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:49:13Speaker 02

  The tactical.

• 1:49:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, T triple C, yeah.

• 1:49:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's teaching them all that stuff because everything had changed by then.

• 1:49:19Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:49:20Speaker 02

  Now we did makes reports for people getting blown up and stuff. Back then, Ramadi, man, you get blown up, it's like, hey, man, you good? Charlie, Mike, this is good. Continue mission, man.

• 1:49:28Jocko Willink?

  What was the new protocol?

• 1:49:30Speaker 02

  Um, they do makes reports. If you're even near a blast. And it's like they pull you off the line for a couple of days.

• 1:49:39Jocko Willink?

  Protocol type thing?

• 1:49:41Speaker 02

  To make sure that your head was okay. But I forgot the acronym stood for Mace report, but they used to have to do that. Cause they started finding out that all these blasts and stuff, man.

• 1:49:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it turns out they might not be very good.

• 1:49:56Speaker 02

  That's why I say TBI, man, because I've been blown up like over half a dozen times. You know, it's crazy stuff.

• 1:50:02Jocko Willink?

  And what they're finding out now is not just getting blown up. It's when you're shooting a 50 cal. It's when you shoot a rocket. It's when you throw crashes, you know, crash bangs into a room. It's when you're like anything blown breaching charges, like all these little micro concussions over time, which we have probably literally thousands of them. You know, like, I mean, I used to be like a range safety officer and we'd be shooting rockets. So you go out, back in the old days, I'd go out and like every guy in a platoon is going to shoot a rocket.

• 1:50:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:50:40Jocko Willink?

  You know, maybe two. So there's 20 or 30 rockets in a day and you go home and you're like, or you get back to the barracks. You're like, well, I kind of have a headache, but I'm not going to complain about it or anything.

• 1:50:50Speaker 02

  Stuff is not normal.

• 1:50:51Jocko Willink?

  And you know, you're sitting there like shooting the 50 cal, sitting there like you're doing, teaching CQC and there's guys crashing the rooms, right? And you're above in the catwalk, but you're getting crashed all day long. Like, so you get a lot of breaching charges. I mean, you know, you know, what's the minimum safe distance for a breaching charge? It's pretty freaking close. And what's the minimum safe distance for a breaching charge in combat? It, it's whatever you happen to get. So yeah, these little things, they add up and the, you know, you getting hit by a bunch of IEDs. Yeah, those are big. And then on top of that, you put all these little micro concussions that you get over that time. That's stuff, they're finding out now that that stuff really adds up and causes some significant issues.

• 1:51:38Jocko Willink?

  So when you get back home from that deployment, is that when you start like you start feeling like maybe you need to get some assessments done?

• 1:51:47Speaker 02

  No, my back was kind of messed up already. And so, yeah, I just, I kept going to the doc because my back, my legs would go numb every now and then. Come to find out my back was jacked up. So from I guess, getting blown up in Bradley's all the time, you know? And that's a metal, it's all metal in there. So nothing hit, you know, just kind of jacked up my whole back, man. So.

• 1:52:10Jocko Willink?

  So did you have some kind of disc problem or?

• 1:52:13Speaker 02

  They couldn't figure it out, but I got med boarded out honorably, you know, and then, so we're 20 years later.

• 1:52:21Jocko Willink?

  How do you feel when you get med boarded out? Did they?

• 1:52:23Speaker 02

  I was really sad.

• 1:52:24Jocko Willink?

  Well, did they prepare you for it? Like, what are they telling you?

• 1:52:27Speaker 02

  Well, my, my P A was like, all right, Adam Anderson or whatever. They used to call me Andy or Ad, Ad. Or whatever, sorry, Anderson, whatever. Um, my, um, P A was like, um, she's like, well, you've been serving this country for long enough. It's time for us to take care of you now. So. I'm like, no, ma'am, I don't want to get out of here yet. You know, I want, I want to do my 20 years at least. And so, but. She's like, no, your back's not going to make it. You're not going to make it. I'm like, man, I'll overcome all this stuff. I'll make it. Whatever. I'm just a medic, you know, but I didn't think about it. I'm not just a medic, you know? It was lifeline for a lot of guys.

• 1:53:10Jocko Willink?

  But they'd give you no choice eventually?

• 1:53:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, they didn't give you no choice. Yeah.

• 1:53:14Jocko Willink?

  And then what, how long does it take before, when they tell you you're done and then you're out? How long is that?

• 1:53:19Speaker 02

  It's like six months. I think it was the whole process. It was pretty, pretty quick for me.

• 1:53:23Jocko Willink?

  Did you come up with any kind of plan or what was your plan?

• 1:53:26Speaker 02

  I didn't have a plan, man. I got out and I was like, man, what the heck am I going to do now? So I called up my old union hall.

• 1:53:32Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:53:33Speaker 02

  And I asked him, like, hey, is there any way I could get a job out here in Colorado, hanging a pipe again? Sprink- sprinkler pipe and like, oh yeah, definitely. So I get a call the next day from the business manager from the union hall out in Colorado. And he's like, hey, man, are you trying to find some work? And he's like, Oh, yeah, but not right now, bro. I'm still in the military, man. I'm not out for like a couple more months. You know, just trying to check in.

• 1:53:58Jocko Willink?

  That's pretty cool that the union took care of you, though.

• 1:54:00Speaker 02

  Definitely, but I was tattooing, doing pretty good work by then. I got pretty good. So I picked the best shop in town. So I started working at West Side Tattoo.

• 1:54:10Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:54:11Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:54:12Jocko Willink?

  And how's that living?

• 1:54:13Speaker 02

  It was pretty good, man. I was making a lot of money there. So, yeah, it was pretty good.

• 1:54:19Jocko Willink?

  And is it like when you're as good as you are at tattooing, what percentage of people come in and are like, hey, I want you to do this particular tattoo on me? And what percentage of people go do something cool on my arm?

• 1:54:32Speaker 02

  Oh, I try to do something cool on everybody. I try and talk them into cooler stuff.

• 1:54:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:38Speaker 02

  You guys gotta upcharge, not upcharge them, but you gotta up, up, upgrade their, their ideas. Yeah. So I'd always try and make it, make whatever tattoo I'm doing really cool.

• 1:54:49Jocko Willink?

  And how much does it cost for like, uh, for a tattoo?

• 1:54:52Speaker 02

  Like a hundred twenty dollars an hour.

• 1:54:54Jocko Willink?

  It's charged by the hour, huh?

• 1:54:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:57Jocko Willink?

  What's, have you done like somebody entire back piece?

• 1:55:00Speaker 02

  Oh, definitely.

• 1:55:01Jocko Willink?

  And sleeves?

• 1:55:02Speaker 02

  I did a full torsos, full arm sleeves. Yeah, I've done a lot of big work on people.

• 1:55:08Jocko Willink?

  And you're, you said it's a hundred and twenty bucks an hour?

• 1:55:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:11Jocko Willink?

  So you're making good money. You're working in freaking

• 1:55:13Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 1:55:14Jocko Willink?

  five, six, eight hours a day or something. How long can you tattoo before you're like tired or?

• 1:55:18Speaker 02

  Like ten hours, probably.

• 1:55:19Jocko Willink?

  Oh, you were doing ten hour days?

• 1:55:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, sometimes.

• 1:55:23Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 1:55:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, my back's pretty jacked up because of that now. Needing over just working on people, yeah.

• 1:55:31Jocko Willink?

  And how long did you do that for?

• 1:55:33Speaker 02

  I've done it till this past year. Yeah, now I'm fully a hundred percent retired from the military.

• 1:55:39Jocko Willink?

  Right on, right on.

• 1:55:40Speaker 02

  I'm a hundred percent, so.

• 1:55:41Jocko Willink?

  Are you still doing, um, occasional tattoos if someone's kind of down for it?

• 1:55:46Speaker 02

  Just my friends.

• 1:55:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:47Speaker 02

  My friends, my family.

• 1:55:49Jocko Willink?

  Do you, do you, uh, like, what kind of recognition? Cause I look, like I said, I looked at your tattoos are freaking awesome.

• 1:55:56Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:55:57Jocko Willink?

  Did you get in a bunch of magazines and shit like that?

• 1:55:59Speaker 02

  I've been in magazines, yes. I've done a lot of, uh, conventions. But yeah, I've been in a couple of magazines.

• 1:56:05Jocko Willink?

  Have you tattooed, have you tattooed anybody that's super famous?

• 1:56:10Jocko Willink?

  Not yet.

• 1:56:11Speaker 02

  Not yet. I don't think, nobody's super famous. Tattoo, a lot of tattoo artists had it pretty cool.

• 1:56:18Jocko Willink?

  Right on.

• 1:56:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess they.

• 1:56:20Jocko Willink?

  That's gotta be like the ultimate compliment is when another tattoo artist wants you to tattoo them.

• 1:56:24Speaker 02

  Definitely. Yeah. In my eyes, you know, they're like rock stars in my eyes and I get a tattoo and I'm like, that's cool, man. You know?

• 1:56:32Jocko Willink?

  And how was the, how was like the, the highs and the lows of once you're leaving, you know, you leave the.

• 1:56:40Speaker 02

  I miss it every day. I miss the military every day. I miss all the discipline. I miss the camaraderie. Camaraderie mostly, you know, cause you build that up. So I talk to this guy.

• 1:56:50Jocko Willink?

  And how did you guys reconnect again? Was it the reunion?

• 1:56:54Speaker 01

  Well, you listen to the podcast.

• 1:56:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:56Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 1:56:57Speaker 02

  And I hit him up, man. I go, you guys are both inspiring, you know, especially you, you too, bro. And I heard about the canine for warriors. So, yeah, I was like, man, I want a dog. I need something like that to help me.

• 1:57:09Jocko Willink?

  Right on.

• 1:57:09Speaker 02

  My daily thing.

• 1:57:11Jocko Willink?

  So the canine for warriors, we're working on that right now?

• 1:57:13Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:57:14Jocko Willink?

  For, for Adam?

• 1:57:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, applications should be, it's, it's submitted. We just need to step them up, Lindsay.

• 1:57:21Jocko Willink?

  And then, and then it's pretty cool. For those of you that didn't listen to one with, with Ryan yet, they, they find the dog that's right for the person.

• 1:57:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:30Jocko Willink?

  And it can be, it can be like anything. Could be anything from a freaking Chihuahua to a damn pit bull to a Belgian Malinois. Like, like it could be anything, right?

• 1:57:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're really good at matching the dog to your personality and your lifestyle. Um, so he's probably not going to get a Belgian Mal, cause it's, you know, it takes a lot of work and stuff like that. So.

• 1:57:49Jocko Willink?

  You're gonna get a chill dog.

• 1:57:50Speaker 01

  You're gonna get a poodle.

• 1:57:53Jocko Willink?

  A poodle.

• 1:57:56Jocko Willink?

  And how, so how long will that process take?

• 1:57:59Speaker 01

  Uh, typically between a year and a half to two years, but you know, we, we wanna step it up so he could have his dog before the reunion. So we could present the dog at the reunion, cause K-9 is gonna be there and they're gonna be there for other soldiers that need the help, but haven't heard the podcast or haven't, you know, don't know about it yet. So that's what we wanna do is, cause it, not just him, just from being on the podcast and talking about it, two, three soldiers total that I know of, like I've walked into the process of getting a dog.

• 1:58:25Jocko Willink?

  That's outstanding.

• 1:58:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:29Jocko Willink?

  What did you, when you heard that on the podcast, like what um made you think like, oh damn, that sounds like I could use that?

• 1:58:36Speaker 02

  Um, I was going through a kind of hard time in my life. I was just kind of feeling down a little bit and uh, I called him and told him, I'm like, hey man, I mean, what's up with the canine for warriors? And he ran it all down to me. I'm like, do I actually use that in my life right now?

• 1:58:50Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome.

• 1:58:51Speaker 02

  You know, having a partner, a little cool, like caliber over there.

• 1:58:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, caliber, if you didn't know, is on the, is asleep right now. Uh, getting some sleep over here. Caliber's Ryan's dog and just a freaking chill.

• 1:59:05Speaker 01

  Such a good dog. It's amazing.

• 1:59:08Jocko Willink?

  And the dogs will get, you know, trained to help out whatever a person specifically needs. Anything from like medical issues to like physical challenges, anxiety, the whole nine.

• 1:59:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, we talked about, you know, the brace training they have last time I was on. So that's something that he could definitely benefit. Like I don't use that with caliber because I, you know, get up and stuff, but that's something he could definitely use, you know, with mobility issues. So. Help him out, get a big dog.

• 1:59:34Jocko Willink?

  So that's what we're doing.

• 1:59:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:35Jocko Willink?

  What do you got on your notes there, man?

• 1:59:38Speaker 02

  Oh, just things I wanted to talk about, some dates.

• 1:59:40Jocko Willink?

  How we doing them? How we doing?

• 1:59:41Speaker 02

  We already got through them all pretty.

• 1:59:42Jocko Willink?

  Did we, did we get them done?

• 1:59:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, we did.

• 1:59:44Jocko Willink?

  Do we get the important highlights of the scenario?

• 1:59:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got this motivation from you when you went on Joe Rogan. That's why. Yeah, yeah, we, we touched base on everything.

• 1:59:54Jocko Willink?

  That's like one of those habits I got from being in the military. Like, you know, you're going somewhere, you better bring a notebook and be ready to write down. You know, what your boys say, you know, what your boss says or what your, you know, whoever, like if I don't write something down, sometimes it.

• 2:00:09Jocko Willink?

  If I write something down, so that's a little, little bit of challenge to remember it.

• 2:00:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 2:00:15Jocko Willink?

  Uh, so what's, so what, what else? What else have we got going on? You're done tattooing, you're retiring, what's your day? What are you doing? What are you doing to work out right now? You got some mobility issues, obviously?

• 2:00:25Speaker 02

  I, I go to PT uh twice a week and I work out there.

• 2:00:30Jocko Willink?

  Nice.

• 2:00:31Speaker 02

  And me doing like this uh stationary chair and stuff like uh, like cycling and stuff. And uh, they teach me how to stretch and all that stuff, mobility, trying to get my legs moving.

• 2:00:44Jocko Willink?

  Have you looked at, have they started to figure out what's going on with your back yet?

• 2:00:48Speaker 02

  They say I have a quata equana syndrome.

• 2:00:52Jocko Willink?

  What's that?

• 2:00:53Speaker 02

  It's like a horse tail because your spine, the nerves on your spine come down and looks like a horse tail.

• 2:00:58Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:00:59Speaker 02

  And so my L five slipped over my L four. No, my L four slipped over my L five and the stenosis in there is causing a lot of nerve. And it's constant nerve pain.

• 2:01:10Jocko Willink?

  So you're gonna get him to go in there?

• 2:01:12Speaker 02

  I'm trying to, yeah. I've had this thing going on for over a year now, so it's just kinda hard VA.

• 2:01:18Jocko Willink?

  Is it, so the VA is slow right now for you?

• 2:01:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 2:01:22Jocko Willink?

  And you're not getting a response that you need?

• 2:01:24Speaker 02

  Not as quick as I want it. Yeah, so I have to go out in the community, outside the VA community to get all my, like, everything is done outside the community because all the VA docs in Colorado are just all booked so far out.

• 2:01:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, with the new VA system, you're supposed to be able to go and get looked at by someone, like a civilian.

• 2:01:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:45Jocko Willink?

  I've done that, like with a couple of things where they didn't have the capacity. And it's like, okay, well, here's your civilian doctor and you go to whatever normal civilian hospital here in San Diego for me. Which is weird too, because we have Balboa Naval Hospital, you know, which is a big ass Navy hospital that, usually they have somebody that can take care of you, but sometimes it's like, no, no, you, you, we don't have any appointments for four months. And you're like, bro.

• 2:02:14Speaker 02

  So I see a shot to my back and they sent me out of the community, so I'm supposed to find out soon when I'm supposed to get these shots.

• 2:02:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Well, the good news, I've had, I had a neck surgery a while ago. But the good news is, like with something like this, is like, it's basically a mechanical problem. Like what you just said, it's like, here's a disc or here's a L three, L four, L five. It's a mechanical problem, like it moved, you know, and you just gotta get that shit moved back and have them bolted into place. Like, it'll hopefully be good to go after that.

• 2:02:47Speaker 02

  Hopefully.

• 2:02:47Jocko Willink?

  Most of the time, they're pretty good at it. There are always risks, you know, this, you're a doc, but like there was, sometimes they're like, hey, man, if we, we could do this surgery and it might not help. That does happen from time to time. They can say, they'll tell you, hey, we might do the surgery and it can get worse. That can happen from time to time. Generally speaking, most of the people that I know, myself included, when I got surgery, got better, got way better. And so, yeah, man, you know.

• 2:03:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you're gonna like, you know, however long it takes for them to get it all organized, but then hopefully you get in there, get under the knife. They, you know, again, I look at it just like a carpenter. You know, like, hey, there's a piece of wood that needs to get moved over a little bit and bolted into place. Like, that's basically what they're gonna do when they get in there, which is squared away. And, um, and that's, that's, so that's it, man. That's what we're doing right now.

• 2:03:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I went into TBI clinic too.

• 2:03:40Jocko Willink?

  And how's that working out for you?

• 2:03:42Speaker 02

  It was alright because, uh, I built up a stutter, I guess. I noticed this. And I told the, the docs about that they sent me to TBI clinic and how to take speech classes again.

• 2:03:54Jocko Willink?

  And then what do they tell you to, cause what do they tell you to get rid of a stutter? Because does, isn't a stutter caused because you're thinking about the fact that you're stuttering? Isn't that like one of the things that causes it?

• 2:04:04Speaker 02

  You know, it's army guys, we always talk smack, so being on the ball and quick with your comebacks, man. And I noticed that I couldn't do that all that quickly anymore, you know, it's hard for me to remember a lot of stuff. You know, I don't know if you know, sad, I kinda, and I talk kinda like slurry a little bit. But that's just from my meds, I guess. I gave a pen.

• 2:04:23Jocko Willink?

  And, and then, so, so you were starting to stutter and then what they do in speech therapy? Like, what do they, do they have you like say tongue twisters and shit like that?

• 2:04:32Speaker 02

  They just had me trying to focus on saying what's on my mind, you know, instead of just like the, the, you know, like do, do all stupid stuff. But yeah, just try to focus on what's on my mind, trying to spit it out. That was my issue I kept having. I think it, but it wouldn't come out the way I would think it. Or I forget certain words and I just kinda like, you know, forget what the heck I'm talking about sometimes, you know?

• 2:04:56Jocko Willink?

  Well, you've been kinda knocking it out of the park today. You only forgot one word. I forget what the word was, but you forgot one word. Security, yeah, you forgot, excuse me, you remembered it, I did. Yeah, you forgot the word security. Other than that, you're kinda knocking it out of the park, bro.

• 2:05:09Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:05:09Jocko Willink?

  Sounded good to go. Um, and so, one of the reasons that I love having you out here and Ryan coming back again, just to let people know about Canines for Warriors. It's, uh, caninesforwarriors.org. There's a YouTube, there's an Instagram, there's a Twitter. And it's all at canines for warriors. And if people are interested in supporting that it's so helpful. Go listen to go listen to Ryan's story and you can actually go on their YouTube channel. You can watch all kinds of people. You can see how massively beneficial beneficial it is for people to have a dog, a well-trained dog, a dog that becomes a companion, a dog that becomes a friend, a dog that becomes a, you know, like a, like a battle buddy,

• 2:05:52Jocko Willink?

  you know, for all practical purposes. And, you know, I, I got, I have a dog. Um, I actually have a new dog right now because my, my last dog died and it was terrible, but I got another dog, you know?

• 2:06:05Speaker 01

  And dog do you got?

• 2:06:06Jocko Willink?

  I had a German shepherd. Yeah. My last one was a German shepherd. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Um, it's, it's one of those things, man, like they, whatever, what is it? What are the little chemicals that get released in your head when you pet a dog?

• 2:06:20Speaker 01

  Dopamine?

• 2:06:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, dopamine is like, that's for real. Like, where I just see my dog and my dog sees me. It's like, oh, it's, everything's cool.

• 2:06:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's something that, you know, I talked about last time. Um, but same thing happened like at the airport. Um, you know, somebody sees caliber like there was a lady that was really nervous about flying. And she sat down on the plane next to me and she was like, that just made my day. Like, I just made the whole flight. I was led her like play with caliber the whole time. Like, I got lucky and getting into getting like a whole road to myself. And she was just petting the whole time and.

• 2:06:50Speaker 02

  Caliber is really good at identifying stuff because I was sitting there last night. We were talking about some stuff. And I started feeling really anxious anxious and my body started, you know, kind of getting a little anxiety attack. And caliber came and sat on my feet and he's like, see, she knows, he knows. I'm like, yeah, that's cool, man. So I was petting caliber. I'm like, thank you, caliber.

• 2:07:10Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome. You had a Harley Davidson jacket on.

• 2:07:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:14Jocko Willink?

  Earlier. Uh, you still got a bike? Oh, you got a Harley shirt on. You got a bike?

• 2:07:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:19Jocko Willink?

  What kind of bike you got?

• 2:07:20Speaker 02

  It's a Street Bob, two thousand twenty four Street Bob.

• 2:07:22Jocko Willink?

  Nice.

• 2:07:23Speaker 02

  Pretty cool.

• 2:07:23Jocko Willink?

  You're out there rolling still.

• 2:07:26Speaker 02

  Not really, not all that much anymore, man. My back's so messed up right now.

• 2:07:30Jocko Willink?

  Were you into bikes when you were a kid?

• 2:07:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, kind of. Yeah. My dad was always pretty cool, man. He had dirt bikes for us and mini bikes. Always had that kind of stuff growing up.

• 2:07:41Jocko Willink?

  Chuck, those are probably not going to be ideal for your back at this juncture.

• 2:07:47Speaker 02

  No, but I just like, I like having my motorcycle.

• 2:07:50Jocko Willink?

  Do you do art on your motorcycle?

• 2:07:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:07:52Jocko Willink?

  No pinstripes or anything like that?

• 2:07:54Speaker 02

  Like that.

• 2:07:54Jocko Willink?

  No freaking skulls on the gas tank?

• 2:07:56Speaker 02

  No, no, no, sir.

• 2:07:59Speaker 02

  It's Dodger blue.

• 2:08:00Jocko Willink?

  Dodger blue?

• 2:08:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:08:01Jocko Willink?

  That'll do it, dude. Awesome. Um, does that, does that get us up to speed?

• 2:08:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:06Jocko Willink?

  You think? Get us up to speed, man? We cover all the bases?

• 2:08:09Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 2:08:10Jocko Willink?

  Awesome. Um, Brian, you got anything, anything that we missed at all?

• 2:08:14Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I don't think so. Echo's still not like dogs.

• 2:08:19Jocko Willink?

  Ah, Echo's evil.

• 2:08:24Speaker 01

  That's what, that was funny. We'll talk about that afterwards.

• 2:08:27Jocko Willink?

  For the record, Echo's had his run-ins with dogs.

• 2:08:31Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:08:32Speaker 01

  No, I just wanted to poke fun at him a little bit. He's good now.

• 2:08:36Jocko Willink?

  Right on. No, it's an awesome organization. And like I said, we go and check out their website. You can see how much, how, you know, just talking to you last time. It's very clear how, how helpful it is. And then when you see all the other examples of people that have been able to do so well. Once, you know, once they got their dog and, and they have that companion and, and a sense of purpose as well.

• 2:08:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:57Jocko Willink?

  You know, it's cool that you rely on your dog, but your dog relies on you.

• 2:09:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:01Jocko Willink?

  You know, it's like a two way street.

• 2:09:02Speaker 01

  Does give you a sense of responsibility. So, so hopefully, you know, just from this podcast again, hopefully it leads more people to go in that direction. And also what I emphasize also is if you need help, it's out there. So.

• 2:09:14Jocko Willink?

  Awesome. Awesome. Adam, you got anything else, man? Any closing thoughts? Anything we missed?

• 2:09:18Speaker 02

  No, sir. Just you're a very inspiring person, man. I've been doing a lot of research on you. You're cool, man. I dig it. I dig what you do, man. Thank you so much for everything that you do.

• 2:09:29Jocko Willink?

  Well, thank you, man. It's awesome to have you guys on here. It's, you know, thanks for sharing your experiences, telling your stories. This is the kind of thing that people need to hear about. You know, I mentioned it earlier, like the war that you guys fought, the grunts on the ground, the infantry guys. It's just outstanding. It gets overlooked a lot. And it really should be the, it should be the lead story, you know, the lead story on the war is our infantry soldiers that were out there on a day-to-day basis getting after it. So, thanks for coming on. And obviously, thanks for your service. Thanks for your service in the army. Thanks for, it was an honor to share the battlefield with you.

• 2:10:08Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely.

• 2:10:09Jocko Willink?

  And for what you and for what your brothers did and for the brothers that you lost, we won't forget it, bro.

• 2:10:16Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 2:10:16Jocko Willink?

  Thank you.

• 2:10:17Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:10:19Jocko Willink?

  And with that, Adam and Ryan have left the building. Great to hear from those guys. One of the things that I had in my notes that I didn't mention, which is pretty cool. It was a significant amount of time after Ramadi, Adam, they like tracked down one of the, one of the events with Adam. It's actually the one I read about with him rescuing Muir. And he was given an Army Comm with V for that action. So, I failed to mention that during the podcast. I was talking with him afterwards. And that came up. So, pretty, pretty awesome. I had it in my notes and I just failed to, to mention it.

• 2:11:04Jocko Willink?

  Cause it's pretty cool. That kind of closure happens, you know, in the military. You know, we always hear about the military screwing things up, but the military gets some things right too, you know. I had, I had some guys get their awards, uh, what, elevated, you know? After several, after like eight years or something like that.

• 2:11:26Speaker 02

  How does that happen?

• 2:11:27Jocko Willink?

  The way I understand it, I don't, I'm not a hundred percent.

• 2:11:32Jocko Willink?

  Sure, but what happened, this is what I know happened. At some point, three of my guys who had received Bronze Stars with V's were located, notified that they were, their, their award had been upgraded to a Silver Star. One of them is JP Denno. He was awarded, he was, I put him in for a Silver Star and he got, initially got a Bronze Star with V. Seth Stone, who was given a Bronze Star with V, awarded this Bronze Star with V and his award was elevated,

• 2:12:16Jocko Willink?

  like 10 years later. And one of the medics who, I don't use his name, um, because I don't think he wants to be public, but a good friend of mine, he, who is a medic, a corpsman, and he was awarded a Bronze Star with V and he, that was, that, that was upgraded. But again, it was after 10 years and apparently, again, don't, please don't quote me on this.

• 2:12:44Jocko Willink?

  Apparently, the Navy did like a review of combat awards and handed out some of the upgrades after they reviewed what had taken place. So that was pretty cool, but it, you know, it was 10 years later.

• 2:13:03Jocko Willink?

  So occasionally those things happen and that's what happened with Adam, Adam Anderson, whatever. I think it was like 15, 20 years later. They said, hey dude, you remember when you freaking risked your life to go out and save one of your guys? Yeah, that should have been recognized. And so here you go. So he was awarded the Navy com- with V. Which is a huge deal. The V makes a big difference. It's a big deal.

• 2:13:29Jocko Willink?

  Like a, like an, an army achievement medal, or a navy achievement medal, or an army commendation medal, or a navy commendation medal, by itself, like, I have navy achievement medals. For, like, keeping track of my communications equipment when I was a new guy SEAL. Like, that's, that's just way, it's just not even in the same ballpark. So, with, to, to what we're talking about here. I think Leif and Seth used to make fun of me because I had five navy achievement medals. Which is, a navy achievement medal is the lowest award you can get, like, in the Navy. It's, it's peacetime, nothing going on, you're an enlisted guy in the daves.

• 2:14:12Jocko Willink?

  And you kept track of your radios, or you performed well during a training exercise. You know, with a host nation, and, you know, your, your ability to make communications was recognized up to the senior levels. Good.

• 2:14:29Jocko Willink?

  But hey, dude, we're in it. Yeah, comparatively speaking, yeah, I see where, you know, what you're getting at, but hey, man, you're doing, you're out there doing a good job. That's literally what it is. You're doing a, a good job. You know how you say, you're just doing your job? Right. No, this isn't just doing your job. You, you're doing a little bit more. You're doing, you're, you're being recognized for doing a good job. But it is funny to look back now. And you go, damn dude, just grabbing a rack of Navy achievement medals. Oh, damn. Actually, the, the cool thing, like, the, the army commendation with V, or the army achievement with a V, I don't even know, is that a thing? Anyways, in the army, the RCOM with a V is a badass award. And one thing that was, one of, some of my guys got it from the army.

• 2:15:13Jocko Willink?

  And they are very, including Seth Stone, by the way. He was, he was always very proud of his, uh, Army Comm with V.

• 2:15:23Jocko Willink?

  Wait, I think he had one. Yeah, he had one. Either it was him or I know his guys. Several of his guys had the RCOM with me.

• 2:15:34Jocko Willink?

  And they were very stoked on it. So there you go. Adam Anderson. Awesome to hear from him today. Awesome to hear his grunt perspective, infantryman perspective. These are the guys, I'm telling you, man. These guys rolling out there every day. Eight hours on, eight hours on QRF and then eight hours to prepare for your next mission. And, and you know, like being on QRF is not like, you know, being on QRF in Ramadi is like, okay, we're leaving. We're guaranteed, we're just about guaranteed to have to roll out. Everyone's getting in firefights. Everyone needs support. So that's what they were doing month in, month out, and just nothing but respect and admiration and thanks to these guys.

• 2:16:20Jocko Willink?

  All that being said.

• 2:16:23Jocko Willink?

  When you're done with that mission, you got to find your next mission. And we had some good talks. Once we, you know, I'm always. Look, we, we, we have more talk. We talk more than just during the podcast. So we're just talking about to Adam about just, you know, he's good. We talked about a little bit on the podcast, you know, his back and all that stuff. So he's, he's actually done a great job getting himself back into shape to try and get that handled. So. You gotta, you gotta handle that physical piece.

• 2:16:48Speaker 03

  He looks like he lost a hundred pounds.

• 2:16:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So he's, he's handling the physical piece. Hopefully you get that back stuff straightened out. And, you know, we all, you gotta stay ahead of that stuff is my recommendation. Stay ahead of it. And what happened was he had a motorcycle accident. You know, when you get injured, now all of a sudden you're not doing what you're normally doing. That's, that's when things can start to slip away a little bit. So you gotta, you gotta be heads up on that. When you're, make sure that your lifestyle.

• 2:17:21Jocko Willink?

  When you when you get injured or something, you can't be as active as you normally are. You gotta make sure you keep up with your lifestyle. Keep make sure that you're doing the right things as much as you can. Cause if you can't, if you can't run every day, well, cause you got a bad knee. Well, what can you do every day? Can you go on the hand bike? Can you, can you at least walk? You know, you go for a long walk. Do you have to adjust your caloric intake?

• 2:17:41Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:17:42Jocko Willink?

  Cause that jams people up. Cause people are used to though, I'm working out all day and I'm eating, you know, 5,000 calories a day. Then you stop working out, you're still consuming 5,000. Actually, you might even be consuming more.

• 2:17:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:53Jocko Willink?

  Because when you're working all day and you're working hard, doing something physical.

• 2:17:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:57Jocko Willink?

  You don't even have time to eat.

• 2:17:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:59Jocko Willink?

  And so you need, plus when you sit down to eat, me personally, not speaking for everybody. I'm not, like, when I get done training, I'm hungry right then. You know what I'm saying?

• 2:18:07Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:18:08Jocko Willink?

  Guess when I get hungry?

• 2:18:09Speaker 03

  Few hours after.

• 2:18:10Jocko Willink?

  Few hours after and boredom.

• 2:18:14Speaker 03

  That's what I was gonna say, when you get bored.

• 2:18:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, boredom, just boredom eating.

• 2:18:18Speaker 03

  And also not to beat a dead horse, but I will.

• 2:18:23Speaker 03

  Also, you gotta watch out for these sneaky calories. You know, when it's like, oh yeah, I ate this meal and then you drink something with like 300 calories. And it's, you know, for an average person, you know what it takes to burn off 100 calories? 100.

• 2:18:36Jocko Willink?

  How many?

• 2:18:37Speaker 03

  One mile.

• 2:18:38Jocko Willink?

  One mile run?

• 2:18:39Speaker 03

  Run or walk, whatever you, whatever you wanna do.

• 2:18:41Jocko Willink?

  But 100 calories?

• 2:18:43Speaker 03

  100, yeah.

• 2:18:43Jocko Willink?

  Damn dude. So you gotta run a marathon today to burn off 2,500 calories?

• 2:18:47Speaker 03

  If you gotta burn, yeah, I mean, you got your baseline, you know, but the, these additional things, if you're not tracking, which mostly, you know, who's, who's tracking calories, you know, besides fitness people, whatever. Bro, I'm telling you what you eat, that's gonna be a bigger storyteller than most of the other stuff.

• 2:19:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, than you're working out and whatnot.

• 2:19:04Speaker 03

  Yep, I think so.

• 2:19:06Jocko Willink?

  So if you gotta eat, we recommend you eat some stuff that's good for you.

• 2:19:10Speaker 03

  That good stuff.

• 2:19:11Jocko Willink?

  Check out some Jocko Fuel, Jocko Fuel.com. This is, we have protein, we had energy, we got supplementation, we got ready to drink protein. We were just up at the Olympia contest.

• 2:19:24Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:19:24Jocko Willink?

  So that was, you see a lot of people that are, they need protein. I need protein, you need protein, we all need protein. Sometimes you got time for a little powder activity, sometimes you just need to get that RTD together. So whatever it may be.

• 2:19:39Jocko Willink?

  If you need it, go to jockofuel.com. You can also get it at Walmart, Wawa, Vitamin Shoppe, GNC, Military Commissaries, AFEES, Hannaford, Dash Stores, Maryland, Wakeford, ShopRite, HEB, Meyer, Wegmans, Harris Teeter, Publix,

• 2:19:58Jocko Willink?

  Hy-Vee, Lifetime Fitness, Shields. Just, you really can get it in so many places now. Or you can go to jockofuel.com and check it out. We got what you need to be stronger, faster, smarter, healthier, and better. There you go. Also,

• 2:20:15Jocko Willink?

  there's been a lot of sacrifices made for America.

• 2:20:20Jocko Willink?

  And yet, people go and buy a pair of blue jeans that are made by a communist

• 2:20:26Jocko Willink?

  country, or by some other adversary. Maybe it's just an economic adversary of our country, but they're not our country. So don't do that. Look, do you want to train jiu-jitsu? Of course you do. But that doesn't mean you need to support communism while you train jiu-jitsu. No, you can support America. Do you have a cold head sometimes? Yes, you do. Does that mean you need to support communism? No, it doesn't. Do you sometimes need a pair of boots to wear? Yeah, of course you do. You gotta work. Does that mean you need to thereby support communism? No, it doesn't mean that at all. Do you need a t-shirt? Yes, you do. Do you need to support communism? No, you don't. You see where I'm going with this? Yes, I do. You do not need to support communism. You don't need to support slave labor. You don't need to support the destruction of our environment.

• 2:21:13Jocko Willink?

  You should support originusa.com. 100% American-made goods, jeans, gis, hoodies, jackets, just everything that you need. Everything that you need, we got you covered. And it's all made 100% in America with 100% American materials. So go to originusa.com, start working hard, wearing American jeans and American boots, start keeping yourself a little bit toasty with an American hoodie. Train jiu jitsu and American gi or an American made rash guard. Hundred percent. That's what we're doing. Get some.

• 2:21:49Speaker 03

  What's that? Uh, it's so I have this, these, I have two of them. It's a long sleeve. Um, it's kinda like a, it's not a windbreaker, but it's like it's long sleeve, no buttons, hood, there's a hood on it, kinda thinner material.

• 2:22:03Jocko Willink?

  Zipper? Does that have a zipper?

• 2:22:04Speaker 03

  Zipper. Joe Moss wears them all the time.

• 2:22:07Jocko Willink?

  No zipper at all?

• 2:22:08Speaker 03

  No, no, it's like a shirt, but it's made out of like, almost like a dry fit. Material. It's called something RTX maybe.

• 2:22:15Jocko Willink?

  Burr. Yeah, Burr. So this is a material, American made material. It's called Burr. It's like, it's everything that you need when, yeah, that's what I wear when I work out. Of course.

• 2:22:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, like it dries fast.

• 2:22:25Jocko Willink?

  Moisture wicking, dry, fast, keeps you cool, whole nine yards.

• 2:22:28Speaker 03

  Bro, I wear those kinda as a, one of the standard uniforms, like pretty much anywhere.

• 2:22:34Jocko Willink?

  Oh, is this, is this a revelation? Where you been?

• 2:22:37Speaker 03

  No, no, I've been doing it, but I'm revealing that.

• 2:22:39Jocko Willink?

  Okay, the reveal.

• 2:22:44Speaker 03

  These are, it's completely all purpose. I mean, look, I'm not going to the snow. I live in San Diego.

• 2:22:49Jocko Willink?

  Well, I, when I go in the snow, I wear it as a base layer, hundred percent. Four hundred percent. It's so comfortable. So good to go.

• 2:22:55Speaker 03

  Yep. But yeah, that, that's one, um, of.

• 2:22:57Jocko Willink?

  So we got your base layer, hundred percent made in America, or your workout layer, hundred percent made in America.

• 2:23:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:03Jocko Willink?

  I thought you were talking about the stow jacket.

• 2:23:04Speaker 03

  No, no, no.

• 2:23:05Jocko Willink?

  Stow jacket I bring with me everywhere. You know, my, uh, you know, my little like, uh, I guess it's a briefcase, but it's like a fabric briefcase that I carry everywhere. Seen with it all the time. But in the bottom layer of that, I have the stow jacket. Black stow jacket. So if there's chaos breaks out.

• 2:23:19Speaker 03

  No worries.

• 2:23:19Jocko Willink?

  Rain, wind, whatever. Let's go. Bring it. I'm good to go.

• 2:23:23Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:23:24Jocko Willink?

  That's, that stow jacket is kinda mandatory. And then they just came out with, um, something, I forget what it's called, but it's bonded fleece. It's basically like a windproof hoodie.

• 2:23:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:36Jocko Willink?

  With a zipper.

• 2:23:37Speaker 03

  Do we know what bonded means?

• 2:23:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's like, uh, it gives it like a wind, water resistant and wind resistant layer on a hoodie.

• 2:23:46Speaker 03

  Oh, it's like a little shield. So it's bonded means like you're, you're kind of blocked. You're shielded.

• 2:23:51Jocko Willink?

  That's it.

• 2:23:52Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:23:52Jocko Willink?

  I got one of those coming. I just ordered it a few days ago and it's on the way. So that's good to know. So there you go. OriginUSA.com. Get some.

• 2:24:00Speaker 03

  They go deep. Also, jocko story.com is where you can get your apparel. We got shirts and hoodies on there. Got some hats on there. Got shorts on there. Got new designs across the board. The newest one, stand by to get some. But if you want to get the heads up on these new designs, sign up on the email list. Easy money. I don't spam. I promise I don't spam. You just, all just valuable alerts. See what I'm saying? And not very often either too. They're kind of rare, but when they come, they're good. They're valuable.

• 2:24:28Jocko Willink?

  If you sent me spam, I actually wouldn't mind it too much. I know you're not going to, but like.

• 2:24:31Speaker 03

  You wouldn't mind?

• 2:24:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, usually you send us pretty good stuff.

• 2:24:34Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Cause it's at least interesting.

• 2:24:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. But yes, but it won't be spam.

• 2:24:39Jocko Willink?

  Bro, spam is crazy.

• 2:24:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. I'm, oh, yeah. The whole spam industry.

• 2:24:44Jocko Willink?

  It's an industry, isn't it?

• 2:24:45Speaker 03

  Yep. It totally is.

• 2:24:46Jocko Willink?

  Spam.

• 2:24:47Speaker 03

  And then there's spam and scam too, by the way. So, cause they'll spam a bunch of people. Spamming means just mass sending stuff that doesn't have value or whatever. And then hoping that someone, like a real small percentage of people will respond to it in a gullible way and get tricked by their trickery. See what I'm saying?

• 2:25:09Jocko Willink?

  My wife was showing me this reel the other day.

• 2:25:12Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:25:13Jocko Willink?

  But it was a scam. This, you know, there was someone that was scamming, made the phone call. And this woman, and she's obviously has been waiting for someone to try and scam her. She had this thing set up. She was recording the whole thing. And basically she goes, you know, the person's like, oh, you have this, some bunch of gold or money in a bank account. We just need your credit card number so we can transfer the money. And the one's like, oh my gosh, that's the best news. Thank you so much. I'm driving right now. If you give me a second, I'll pull over so I can get my credit card out for you. And she goes, okay. And she goes, yeah, I just need to pull over. She goes, well, just give me your credit card number. And she goes, yeah, I just need to pull over my, and then she has a recorded car crash. So she's like, she plays the recorded car crash. And then she starts acting like she's been in a car crash.

• 2:25:55Speaker 03

  She's like, I, I.

• 2:25:58Jocko Willink?

  I've just crashed my car and the woman's like, can you get to your credit card still? And he's like, I can't breathe, I can't breathe, I'm bleeding. And the woman's like, well, can you reach your credit card? It was pretty crazy to listen to.

• 2:26:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's like revealing just how freaking degenerate the scammers can be. You know, for those ones that they kind of take revenge on the scammers, they're like, that's endless entertainment.

• 2:26:22Jocko Willink?

  I did revenge on the scammer one time and it was a tax guy that was, you know, have you ever had that one?

• 2:26:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, the taxes, yes.

• 2:26:29Jocko Willink?

  Where they're like, hey, listen, you're going to be arrested, you know, um, this is a violation of the law. We've got, we've got police officers that are going to, that have been notified of your location. You need to pay this, this is a tax evasion, this whole thing, right?

• 2:26:42Speaker 03

  Right, right. I get them, I get that one through text.

• 2:26:45Jocko Willink?

  Okay, I haven't gotten that.

• 2:26:48Jocko Willink?

  This was years, this was probably, this was probably at least 10 years ago. Eh, maybe eight years ago, but the, the interesting thing was I was being audited by the IRS at this time actively. So my like, I was actively being audited and turning in documents and all this kind of stuff. And so when it, when they called my wife first, she freaked out. You know, my wife, she's not even from this country, bro. She's from England. She's like, and let's face it, in England right now. They will, they'll like, you can't make a post on social media without them arresting you. So my wife's like, you know, so they're telling my wife, like, your husband, he's going to be arrested. And she's like, oh. The funny thing, my son, who was like 10 years old at the time, was in the background, he heard it on the speakerphone in the car and he's like, it's a scam.

• 2:27:33Jocko Willink?

  It's a scam. But my wife didn't believe him.

• 2:27:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's real.

• 2:27:36Jocko Willink?

  So she gave them my number. And I was at an event somewhere and so I get like five phone calls and three texts from her that are like, the IRS is calling you. Anyways, long story short, I, took me 13 seconds to realize that this guy was a scammer. And then I kept him on the phone for as long as I could. And here's why I'm telling you this whole story is because when I finally, when he finally realized I wasn't going to give him any information. And he had just wasted a half an hour of his time, he was mad at me.

• 2:28:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, that's all.

• 2:28:09Jocko Willink?

  He was mad at me, bro, because I wasted his time. So there you go. Watch out for the scams.

• 2:28:14Speaker 03

  I see those responses as well. Yes. So yes, I don't scam. Of course I don't scam.

• 2:28:21Speaker 03

  Kind of easy to seek retribution on me if I scam, but I don't spam.

• 2:28:26Jocko Willink?

  And you don't scam.

• 2:28:27Speaker 03

  No spam.

• 2:28:28Jocko Willink?

  You're anti spam, anti scam. So there you go. JacoStore.com.

• 2:28:31Speaker 03

  JacoStore, you get a good valuable email, relevant, the whole deal, you know, especially if you want to get the bite on these, these new things that come out. And there's going to be a few coming out. So there you go. Anyway, JacoStore.com. Oh, also JacoStore is the Shirt Locker, new design every month. A bit more creative, but anyway, go there. You can check out some of the designs if you go on the, on the page or whatever. But yeah, it's all on JacoStore.com.

• 2:28:54Jocko Willink?

  Check. Uh, Ramadi Declassified. This is the book Colonel Anthony Dean wrote it. It is such a good account of his battalion and, and the overall brigade, but specifically his battalion in the Battle of Ramadi. It's a great book. So much detail. Like I said, 400 pages. I read you one paragraph today. He was on the podcast for five hours. We didn't even touch the surface of that book. So it's a great book. Get that one. I've written a bunch of books about leadership. Dave Burke, his book Need to Lead. Check that one out as well. We also have a leadership consulting company called Ashlam Front. If you need help inside your organization on anything.

• 2:29:31Jocko Willink?

  Anything? Yes, anything. Well, you mean the process that we add our material to our new fabrication? But yes, we'll help with that. Well, what do you know about that, Jocko? I don't know anything about that. You know what I do know about? Leadership and any problems that you're having are leadership problems. So if you have problems inside your organization, go to ashlamfront.com and we will help you solve those problems through leadership. Also, extremeownership.com. We teach the skills of leadership online. That's what we do. And leadership is a skill and it's a skill that you need to be taught and it's a skill that you need to practice. And you can do both of those things at extremeownership.com. So check those out. And if you want to help service members, active and retired,

• 2:30:12Jocko Willink?

  you want to help families, you want to help Gold Star families. Check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got an incredible charity organization. If you want to donate, you're going to get involved. Go to AmericasMightyWarriors.org. Also check out HeroesAndHorses.org.

• 2:30:29Jocko Willink?

  And finally Jimmy Mays organization beyond the brotherhood.org and lest we forget canines for warriors you can already you've heard what it did for Ryan you can go look at some of those other stories that they tell canines that's K the letter K nine the number nine S for warriors.org they're also YouTube Instagram Twitter and Facebook at canines for warriors great organization if you want to connect with Adam we didn't mention this during the podcast but he's got an Instagram it's at Adam Anderson underscore tattoo and for us check out jocko.com and then on social media I'm at jocko Willink echoes at echo Charles

• 2:31:14Jocko Willink?

  set yourself a time limit of about 3.5 minutes and then get off that satanic device it's not helping you in any way shape or form thanks once again to Adam Anderson and Ryan Jackson for joining us awesome to see you guys thanks for your service and sacrifice in the battle of Ramadi we will not forget you we will not forget your fellow soldiers and we will not forget the heroes that did not come home also thanks to all of our military across the globe right now protecting peace and freedom we will not forget you either and thanks to our police law enforcement firefighters paramedics EMTs dispatchers correctional officers border patrol secret service as well

• 2:31:59Jocko Willink?

  as all other first responders thank you for protecting our peace here on the home front and for everyone else out there here's a little history from the second Battalion six infantry regiment where Adam and Ryan both served this is from global security.org and here's the quote the battalion motto was remember the regiment the last word spoken by the then commander Colonel Thompson on Christmas Day 1837 at Okeechobee Swamp during the Seminole War the Colonel was fatally wounded having fallen below swamp waters a private from the regiment pulled his fallen commander's head above the water so he could utter his

• 2:32:44Jocko Willink?

  last words his final order to the men of the sixth regiment keep steady men charge the hummock and remember the regiment end quote

• 2:32:58Jocko Willink?

  So there you go. Remember the regiment. And remember those brave souls. That gave their last full measure. For us.

• 2:33:10Jocko Willink?

  And that's all I've got for tonight. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.