97: Leadership Do's and Don'ts. Be Humble, Keep Your People Informed, and Treat Others With Respect. "The Diary of a Napoleonic Foot Soldier"

0:00:00 - Opening. 0:07:06 - "The Diary of a Napoleonic Foot Soldier", Jakob Walter. 1:02:02 - Final Thoughts and Take-Aways. 1:18:09 - Support JockoStore http://www.jockostore.com stuff, Origin Brand Apparel http://www.originmaine.com, with Jocko White Tea http://www.jockotea.com and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes) https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/psychological-warfare/id1183222322. Extreme Ownership (book) http://amzn.to/2jonHTx, The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. http://amzn.to/2szgaEj 1:47:35 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jaco Podcast number 97 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:12Jocko Willink?

  To the master stonemason

• 0:16Jocko Willink?

  in the town of Mansfield.

• 0:20Jocko Willink?

  Greetings in God, much beloved parents. If my small letter finds you in good health, I should be mightily glad.

• 0:30Jocko Willink?

  What concerns me, I am pretty much in health.

• 0:36Jocko Willink?

  Here in the white country will have to die all of hunger.

• 0:43Jocko Willink?

  All is burnt and the Russian army has carried off all subjects. As they had such a fear of us and there is no food to be found because nobody is to be found in any town. Whenever a house is found, it is empty and dark. Dear parents, I have to give news of our last battle as we had already gone hungry for three days and marched day and night at five in the morning, we marched into this battle with a cabbage stump in our stomach.

• 1:18Jocko Willink?

  And we were in in it until the evening.

• 1:24Jocko Willink?

  And then we again had nothing and could not eat for tiredness. Only cannon fire from morning to evening. God has helped me out of the third battle also without harm, though the bullets hailed down pretty well, as if one were to take peas and throw them at someone. But none got me.

• 1:46Jocko Willink?

  The whole cavalry is lost.

• 1:50Jocko Willink?

  Now I want to write you about the Russian town of misery, Moscow, which is seven hours walk long and as wide and the Russians put fire to it. For four hours it burned and then it was extinguished. And we were stationed before Moscow and I don't know whether we are going forward or back.

• 2:17Jocko Willink?

  I don't know what to write.

• 2:20Jocko Willink?

  Except that you will shortly see many cripples without arm and leg and so many must die pitifully of hunger and terrible dangers. Russians appear all the time for the last battle. Let's end now. Finally, farewell and stay healthy until we speak again. Many greetings to brothers and sisters, brothers-in-law and sisters-in-law, to the Baldsons, the Krogens, and all good friends and acquaintances. And I am quite well if only I can live. Farewell.

• 3:01Jocko Willink?

  I remain your faithful son until death. Johann Andreas Warnock. So Napoleon, who is often praised by many, including myself, praised as a military genius, and he was one of the first military leaders to effectively utilize psychological warfare. And this included, most famously, his bulletins de la Grande Army, which was sort of an update.

• 3:42Jocko Willink?

  It was like a newspaper that was sent out while the campaigns of France were being embarked upon, and that was his media, so he had control of it. And he also controlled mail that his troops sent home and made sure that it painted a positive picture of what was happening downrange. And that is where that opening letter came from. And it was actually excerpts of a letter, but it was confiscated by the military of the Kingdom of Westphalia, which was a vassal state under the first French Empire, which

• 4:24Jocko Willink?

  was Napoleon's empire, and the Kingdom of Westphalia, which is a German piece of land, and it provided hundreds of thousands of soldiers for the Napoleonic Wars. And when I say provided soldiers, I should say specifically conscripts.

• 4:45Jocko Willink?

  Which are basically slave soldiers. You have no choice. You will go and fight.

• 4:53Jocko Willink?

  And over time, Westfalia was eventually conquered by the Russians for a period and then some of the confiscated letters survived and ended up as historical documents that explained what was happening on the ground. And that's where that letter came from through old Russian files, where they had, they had this letter. And again, we make a habit of glorifying Napoleon. And I have done it right here on this podcast, which is actually pretty substandard behavior for me, since I always try to listen to the voice and hear the voice and understand the

• 5:36Jocko Willink?

  viewpoint of the foot soldier, the grunt, the frontline troops on the battlefield, because that is where the fighting takes place. Those are the men that execute the plans of the general, and that is where the wars are actually won.

• 5:59Jocko Willink?

  And history as a whole has a tendency to forget about them.

• 6:06Jocko Willink?

  Because generally, it's the admirals and the generals that write the memoirs.

• 6:16Jocko Willink?

  But in this case, we are going to hear from one of Napoleon's grunts.

• 6:24Jocko Willink?

  A guy by the name of Jacob Walter. And he is a German conscript who was fighting for France. So this is a guy grew up in Germany, but when Germany was, became part of, and became a vassal state, like a subordinate state of the Empire of France,

• 6:44Jocko Willink?

  then he ended up fighting for France. But even more, and you're going to find this out quickly, he was fighting for his own survival.

• 6:56Jocko Willink?

  So let's go to this book. The book is called The Diary of a Napoleonic Foot Soldier by Jacob Walter.

• 7:09Jocko Willink?

  And here we go. In the year 1806, I was drafted with many of my comrades into military service in the conscription at that time and was assigned to the regiment of Romig. In the fall, I traveled with the regiment to Prussia in the campaign which Emperor Napoleon, with the princes, then his allies, was conducting at that time against Prussia. And this is interesting, because I've talked about on this podcast before, the Battle of Jenna. And what happened at the Battle of Jenna, and what happened at the Battle of Jenna is that the Prussian army was defeated pretty savagely by Napoleon's army.

• 7:53Jocko Willink?

  And that made them make some major adjustments to the way they ran things, and that was kind of the beginning of decentralized command from the German perspective. But this guy, Walter, Jacob Walter, was actually there. Now, this is what's interesting, and I go, take some time to paint this picture of the way these soldiers operated back then. First of all, they marched just about everywhere. And sometimes they'd ride horses, but sometimes they, but most of the times, they marched. And when they marched, what they would do is just wherever they were, whatever village they were in, they would go in and get quarters in that village. They'd go in, "Hey, we're here, we need to stay in your house, and we need to get fed." And that's what they did. And people allowed them to do it.

• 8:36Jocko Willink?

  I mean, a bunch of people with guns show up at your house and say, "We want food and beds." You know, these people gave them what they wanted. Sometimes willingly, depending when they were traveling out of their own country. So when they were in Germany, or in their Westphalia, the locals, as they were leaving, the locals would give them, "Hey, we'll support you. It's a military guy, we'll support you." And then when they got into enemy territory, they would be, have to be more forceful. But here's how it starts off with him marching.

• 9:08Jocko Willink?

  We were given good quarters everywhere, which kept me always healthy and cheerful in spite of the continuous marching. Furthermore, I was only nineteen years old, a fact which caused me frequently to participate in thoughtless and dangerous enterprises. I think he was getting after it as a young nineteen-year-old. And this is another thing that's interesting. So this guy, these conscripts, they weren't, they weren't permanent soldiers. They were more like reservists, where they would go and fight, and when the war was over, they'd go back home and continue with whatever their job was. And so that's what happens to him. He, you know, gets tasked, he's only nineteen years old, boom, you're gonna go fight. He says, okay, starts going and marching.

• 9:46Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. In this city, it happened in my quarter that a comrade wanted to force the landlord to sing. However, he refused to do so, sitting the whole night on a bench near the stove weeping. Since this man could not sing because of his sorrow, soldier Hummel wanted to frighten him, took his rifle, cocked the hammer, and shot. The bullet passed by me and another soldier and lodged in the wall. I wanted to mention this in order to show how the soldiers were running wild at that time. So, like I said, when they were in their own country, they'd get good support, and everyone would take care of them, but then the further they got into other countries, they had to use force.

• 10:26Jocko Willink?

  A spy who was in the village, a spy who was a village smith, was brought before the guardhouse. He had letters and orders to tell Prussians of our strength in manpower. He was laid on a bench and whipped by two or three corporals. Two men had to hold his feet and to his head. His leather breeches were stretched out and water poured on them, and then he received about a hundred and fifty blows. At last, he could no longer speak because he was half-dead.

• 11:01Jocko Willink?

  After this experience, the smith was taken to the threshing floor and shot. Blows with clubs also were heaped upon many innocent people in this city. So these guys are, things turn bad real quick. Things turn bad real quick, and I can't even imagine these days where there's a lot less accountability, and you have nineteen-year-old soldiers coming into towns and just basically doing whatever they want.

• 11:34Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. Finally, when light firing, now they're getting into a, an attack situation. Finally, when light firing began upon the outpost, we were commanded to attack by wading through the rampart ditches with fanseens, with fanseens to tread these in and to scramble up the outworks by chopping and shoveling. When I stood in the ditch, each first soldier had to pull up the next one with his rifle. The ramparts were of sand and everyone frequently fell back again because of the attack of the enemy or just because of the sliding sand. Yet in that place, the huge cannonballs flew above us, thundering so violently that we would have believed the earth would burst to pieces.

• 12:17Jocko Willink?

  When everyone was almost on top of the earthwork, the Prussians were slaughtered with great vigor and the rest took flight into the gate. Then we too wanted to gain possession of the gateway in order to enter the city, but at this critical time, many of these Prussians were shot along with our men by small and large guns and the gate was closed. Since all sorts of shells and rockets broke out of the fortress like a cloud burst, we had to take flight. Those who meanwhile were scrambling up the outworks had to jump from the fortress into the moat along with their prisoners and all the rest had to do likewise. During this retreat, many fell on bayonets, many drowned and many of us were also brought into

• 13:01Jocko Willink?

  the fortress as prisoners and sent away to Danzig by sea. Now, it's interesting, this guy, the way he writes, it's very matter of fact as to what happens. And again, this is a relatively, I'm going to take you to through three campaigns. This is the first one. The last one is the campaign into Russia, the famous, Napoleon's famous march into Russia to try and take Russia. And everyone knows how that story ends. It's not good. But this first one is, like I said, against the Prussians. Back to the book, one morning the Prussians surprised the Polish camp from the sea with their ships, as it happened before Easter.

• 13:42Jocko Willink?

  The cannon fire on the poles was so heavy that they could not withdraw fast enough. Their cannonballs also traveled more than half again as far toward our camp as our balls did across the water, since the surrounding swamps were frozen and the balls could roll along on ice so fast that one ball took off the feet and legs of ten or twelve men, frequently both feet of the same man.

• 14:10Jocko Willink?

  During this blockade, the Prussians frequently made attacks, although every time with great losses. What a nightmare that is. You're standing on frozen swamps and these cannonballs are being fired at a really low angle and just screaming across the ice and taking out ten to twelve guys' legs, feet.

• 14:37Jocko Willink?

  Going back to the book, "When I arrived in this field, I hastened to look for my brother, who was in the Lillenberg Regiment. Here we met, embraced and greeted one another, and joy filled our hearts. Then he took me into his barracks and gave me trousers, shirts, and several other pieces of clothing which I needed, since, as I have already said, I lost almost everything at Kolberg." So, he's out there and his brother's also out there fighting. And they happen to run into each other from time to time.

• 15:09Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, "While the enemy had to defend themselves around and in the crowded part of the city, a terrible shelling of light and heavy artillery broke in upon us, and all of us had to abandon the positions we had taken. Large mines were exploded into breastwork, and everywhere there flew rockets, so-called pitch rings, which could be put out only with small boxes as they fell on the ground."

• 15:34Jocko Willink?

  If anyone would or could be an onlooker at frightful explosions, he could get the finest view at a fortress attack, which is more remarkable, which is a more remarkable sight by far than a battlefield. The bombs and grenades crisscrossing in the air in such great numbers, all floating like balls of fire in the air and exploding or bursting in the air or on the ground with a small cannon report, the slow ascent of each shell, the fast descent, often also a collision of them in the air. All this is a sight of moving beauty.

• 16:15Jocko Willink?

  So you get the, you get kind of a sense for how much firepower. And again, you don't really think of that very often of, of how these, how these battles would take place and how much firepower there is. But there's obviously massive amounts of rocket fire,

• 16:32Jocko Willink?

  grenades, cannons, rifle. Horrible. And that's the first section, that first campaign against Prussia is relatively short. They achieved victory in that campaign. And he goes back, like I said, he goes back like a reservist to his normal life. And when he goes back to his normal life, survives that way for a while or lives that way for a while. And then he gets recalled again, going back to the book. While I was working in various ways to, at my trade after the Prussian campaign, the war with Austria broke out in 1809 and I was called into the garrison at Stuttgart. And what this, this one is a little bit more of an insurgency.

• 17:13Jocko Willink?

  They're, they're putting down the Tyrolean insurgents in this battle. Relatively short.

• 17:21Jocko Willink?

  But here's where they are holding up a, a fort, basically. Back to the book, we fired through the loopholes and from the wall with cannon and small guns. During the heavy shelling, I shot a man in front of the garden house as he came in a little way forward toward the breastwork and aimed into the loophole. But after I shot and he suddenly fell, several others wanted to carry off this dead man and as was often done. However, the more openly it was done, the more often other men were hit too. Finally, we fired with cannon, throwing projectiles into large and beautiful garden houses, setting them all in flames.

• 18:04Jocko Willink?

  On the third day, the enemy could no longer hold out because of the heavy artillery fire, and moved back into the mountains.

• 18:13Jocko Willink?

  So here's a classic lesson, a classic lesson of combat. If there's a wounded person, you can't run out and get him. You have to suppress fire, and that's exactly what he's saying here. He shot a guy. Somebody came out to try and pull him back. He shot that guy too. Somebody came out to pull them, you shoot that person too. What you have to do is suppress fire when someone gets wounded. As hard it is to do that, that's what you have to do.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  And when you say as hard as it is to do that, that's because, you know, oh, your friend is wounded.

• 18:46Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  You kind of, the automatic thing is to go get him real quick.

• 18:49Jocko Willink?

  That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

• 18:53Jocko Willink?

  It's an emotional attachment.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:54Jocko Willink?

  And it's an emotional decision that people, all the, most people are tempted to make.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:01Jocko Willink?

  Hey, Echo shot, I'm gonna go save him. So I run over to save you, and I get shot too. And again, that campaign, you know, you could hear the insurgents go back up into the mountains, and he carries on a little bit with that. But the focus that I wanted to get to today was this campaign in Russia. So here we go, back to the book. "In the month of January 1812, I was recalled to the garrison of Schornendorf."

• 19:33Jocko Willink?

  And they know that they're going to Russia.

• 19:37Jocko Willink?

  They know that that's where they're heading. Um, but they know it's gonna be tough. But here we go back to the book. Here's about their attitude. "I and all the soldiers were very merry, always singing and dancing, especially since throughout the entire Wurzburg country, the quarters in eating and drinking were very good, particularly because of the large supply of wine, so that everyone had his field flask voluntarily filled with wine and his pockets with cookies at the time of departure. Moreover, the beautiful villages on the main river, surrounded by vineyards, fruit trees, and grain fields, put everyone in a happy mood."

• 20:16Jocko Willink?

  About the middle of March, the army continued on its way through Sax Coburg, where a wooded and mountainous region began, the pine trees were especially plentiful. So I was also thinking about this, you're a working class guy in Germany in the early 1800s. You're working your job day to day. I don't know, I don't know what you're doing. What are you? You're, let's say you're a metal worker. Let's say you're a stone layer, a mason of some, whatever your job is, but you're working hard, you're getting your paycheck, probably not great. And then all of a sudden they say, hey, you want to go on a little adventure? You're going to get to take what you want. You get to go out, you're going to get good food. You can, I can kind of sense that attitude.

• 21:00Jocko Willink?

  And it's the same thing that happens with military guys today, myself included, where, you know, I'm growing up in a small town and everyone just kind of lives and dies in this small town and all of a sudden there's an opportunity to go out and just get after it, live adventure and see the world. You know, they used to say that in the, in the Navy, you know, join the Navy and see the world. Hey, that sounds cool.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:20Jocko Willink?

  And that's kind of what this is here, especially this guy's a veteran. He's been through some wars, been through some tough firefights and, and obviously seen some significant casualties, but at the same time, he's a veteran that he's, he's come back. So he comes back to his, you know, like I said, I don't know what his civilian job was, but he was laying stones or pounding on an anvil, shaping metal or something like that. And all of a sudden, hey, you know what we want you to do? Go out and live in nice manners that you, that you take down or that you, you get quartered in and they're going to feed you great. And it continues and back to the book in the city of Leipzig,

• 22:02Jocko Willink?

  anyone could see what was going to happen since many Frenchies, as could slip through, came crowding through the gates. Leipzig was packed with soldiers and I was in quarters with 150 men. Yet the landlord to whom we were assigned, put us all in one building, the former theater building, which was a hundred feet tall, a hundred feet long and 60 feet wide. Triple rows of tables stood ready in the hall, very beautifully set and loaded with beer, brandy, butter, cheese and white bread.

• 22:34Jocko Willink?

  After all had sat down, everybody ate and drank while eight servants brought in the warm meal which consisted of white soup, two kinds of meat, and several kinds of vegetables. In addition, something cold was served for dessert and drinks were served in abundance throughout the whole afternoon. We stayed here two days until the line of march formed by columns and the departure was ordered. So, like I said, living the pretty good life. Back to the book and then we went further and came to First Invald, a middle side city in Brandenburg District.

• 23:15Jocko Willink?

  We were still very lively in this town, singing and living cheerfully, although we could imagine the unusual campaign before us. But everyone always believes in and hopes for the best. I also looked after my saber and made it very sharp out of turners and tempered it in fire so that it would not break off. The march was continued to Poland through the village of Repin, where the use of German language stopped and the manners and cultures made a strange impression. It was the month of May and the air swarmed with May bugs so that amazingly, so amazingly that it was hard to keep your eyes open in the evening.

• 24:00Jocko Willink?

  The bugs were so very thick that they darkened the atmosphere and everyone was busy shaking them out of their face and hair. Here it became necessary for each person to seek and cook his own provisions, although requisitioning was forbidden. So you weren't allowed to go out and just take stuff, still. But you can see things are starting to get leaner. However, everyone still had his full strength and courage was still alive in every soldier. But from day to day, privation and hunger increased and it became necessary for the regiment to requisition and slaughter livestock so that men could have some meat in addition to the potatoes and grits which they found here and there.

• 24:43Jocko Willink?

  Bread was rare and there was nothing at hand to buy.

• 24:50Jocko Willink?

  So, again, you can see as they move, as they move to the east towards Russia from Germany, through Poland, there's, food is becoming less. And, and they had left in January, if you remember, and so now it's May, so the weather is actually, even though there's a lot of bugs, but the weather's, it's hot, which, the Russian campaign, there's, there's one of the best defenses that Russia has, if maybe the best defense that Russia has, and that's the Russian winter. But right now, it's spring, it's springtime in Poland, so still not that bad yet. And, back to the book,

• 25:27Jocko Willink?

  now, the orders, now the orders led us from Forn to Merium Pole. The march went through Seberg, the roads were sandy and dust-covered, and dust-covered our clothing.

• 25:44Jocko Willink?

  And, you're gonna see how very quickly things turn for these soldiers. Back to the book, "Daily the hardships increased, and there was no hope of bread. My Colonel spoke to us once and said that we could hope for no more bread until we crossed the enemy border. The most anyone might still get was a little lean beef, and hunger made it necessary to dig up, dig up the fields for the potatoes already sprouting, which were, however, very sweet and almost inedible, inedible. One also heard everywhere that several men had already shot themselves because of hardship. In particular, an officer had cut his own throat on that very

• 26:27Jocko Willink?

  same day." So, again, it's very interesting the way he writes, he's sort of matter-of-fact, but we've already have people that are starving, and they're starving, they're marching, and it's, it's bad, it's bad enough that people are killing themselves.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it kinda seemed that, that, like, that came out of nowhere right there.

• 26:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and I, I skipped some pages, but I didn't skip that many pages. I didn't skip that many pages. It, it went pretty quick from, from pretty decent living, it's, it's two pages, it's, sorry, it's three pages in the book, from pretty decent living, singing and living cheerfully, to we got officers that are cutting their own throats.

• 27:12Jocko Willink?

  And this whole campaign takes place in less than a year from January, they're back by December. So, and they haven't, by the way, what's, what's interesting, they haven't met the enemy yet. Right? That, that's what's, that's what's one of, you know, as I'm reading this and as you listen to it, you think they haven't even met the enemy yet. They're just already, already people are dying, already people are killing themselves.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I don't know how much this, he talks about this, but the, he says because of hardship. Like what? Just, just starving.

• 27:42Jocko Willink?

  Marching, starving, being cold, being uncomfortable, privation, suffering.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Straight up got too much.

• 27:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and, and, and your, your light at the end of the tunnel is combat with the Russians. And a Russian winner.

• 28:01Jocko Willink?

  Going back to the book, we believed that the Russians would wait, oh, oh, sorry. Back to the book, um, finally, we came to the Memel River, where the Russian border was. We believed that the Russians would wait on the other side of the bank and attack, but nothing happened. Bonaparte fired upon the high points held by Russians with a few cannon and sent his cavalry across the water. The Russians, however, withdrew after a for, after a short encounter. And this is, this is, is so cool to hear this, because this is the Russian defensive tactic. You hold the, you don't hold the line. You hold the line for a little bit, and then you, and then you retreat.

• 28:44Jocko Willink?

  And you take, you know, you, you inflict some damage on the enemy, on the invaders, you inflict some damage on them, and then you retreat. And then they, when the enemy attack, when the invaders attack again, you inflict some damage and then you retreat. And you're just drawing them in and drawing them deeper and deeper and deeper into Russia. And what they didn't expect, what they didn't expect was that what the Russians did was very smart.

• 29:11Jocko Willink?

  When they retreated, before they retreated, they destroyed everything. They burned the houses, they, they killed the livestock if they couldn't take it with them. They dug the fields up, so there was no food. Cause that was the standard. The standard is, as an army, as a soldier in this time, you, you lived off the land. There was, you didn't need a supply chain. You just lived off the land. Okay, we got, we'll find some, we'll hunt some meat and that's will be our dinner. Or we'll dig up some, some crops that we find and that's what we'll eat. Oh, and for shelter, we didn't need to carry a shelter with us. We'll just stay in the houses. So the Russians, very smart, they destroyed all that. And the French were not expecting this tactic and it was very, very effective.

• 29:56Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, on June 25th, the army went over the bridges. We now believed that once in Russia, we need do nothing but forage, which however proved to be an illusion. The town of Poniman was already stripped before we could enter and so were all the villages.

• 30:15Jocko Willink?

  So they, they thought they might be living high on the hog. But didn't happen. Back to the book, here and there a hog ran around and then was beaten to death with clubs, chopped with sabers and stabbed with bayonets. And often, and often still living, it would be cut and torn to pieces. Several times I succeeded in cutting off something, but I had to chew it and eat it uncooked since my hunger could not wait for a chance to boil the meat. The worst torture was the march because the closed ranks forced all to go in columns. The heat and dust flared up into our eyes as if from smoking coal heaps. The hardship was doubled by the continual halting of troops whenever we came to a swamp or a narrow road.

• 31:00Jocko Willink?

  Often one had to stand for half an hour, then another such period was spent catching up and drudging away without food or water. So this is, this is something that anybody that's done any kind of forced road march in the military can appreciate.

• 31:17Jocko Willink?

  You come to some kind of a choke point, like let's say you got people walking down a road. And they're, let's say 10 or 15 guys abreast and just marching and walking. And you get to something where it's a choke point. So now all of a sudden, only three, it's like a traffic jam. Only three people can go across this walking bridge at a time. So that means everybody that gets there has to stop. Well, the people that got there first, when they get to the other side, they keep that pace going. So by the time you at the end of the tail, an hour later, or a half an hour later, when you get across, you've got to now run to catch back up. And so it's just,

• 31:55Jocko Willink?

  it's, it's, it's painful. And of course, on top of that, you add the fact that these guys have no water or food. Back to the book, during the third night, a halt was made in a field which was trampled into a swamp. Here, we were ordered to camp and to make fires since the, since neither village nor forest could be seen, and the rain continued without end. You can imagine in what a half numbed condition, everyone stood there. What could we do? There was nothing that we could do but stack rifles in pyramids and keep moving in order not to freeze. So it just went in a day, it went from hot, and this happens out in the desert too. It, it's hot, and then all of a sudden at nighttime, you're freezing.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:37Jocko Willink?

  And these guys are, they get told to build fires. Well, guess what? There's no wood. Everything had been burned. They're, all they could do is stack their rifles.

• 32:47Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, we had to march further toward Disna, where we arrived in the middle of July. The men were growing weaker and weaker every day, and the company's smaller and smaller. The march was kept up day and night. One man after another stretched himself half-dead upon the ground. Most of them died a few hours later. Several, however, suddenly fell to the ground dead. The chief cause of this was thirst, for in the most districts, there was no drinking water. There's no water fit for drinking, so that men had to drink out of ditches in which were lying dead horses and dead men.

• 33:29Jocko Willink?

  Another thing we take for granted these days, we got little pumps, little filtration pumps. You can go up to a water with a dead horse in it and you can filter that water out, or you can put an iodine tablet in it and you're gonna kill the bacteria and it's safe to drink. These guys don't have that choice. They're either gonna drink this disease-ridden water, or they're gonna die of dehydration.

• 33:55Jocko Willink?

  Now they get to another village, and here we go back to the book. In another well-plundered village, nothing could be found in the houses. And so, urged on by our hunger, we dug in the ground.

• 34:07Jocko Willink?

  Here, I with several others, removed a large pile of wood which had probably just been put there. We removed this, dug into the ground, and found a covered roof of planks. There was an opening under this from ten to twelve feet deep. Inside, there were honey jars and wheat covered with straw. When we had all this, we opened the jars and saw a solid white substance with the appearance of hard wax. It was so hard that one had trouble breaking off a piece with his saber. But, as soon as it was put on the fire, it all melted away to very clear honey. Now I had honey to eat for a week, although without bread.

• 34:51Jocko Willink?

  So...

• 34:55Jocko Willink?

  They are occasionally finding food that is deeply hidden. There's a couple other instances where they find food that's been hidden by the locals, but it's not enough to go around. And you can imagine how you're feeling when your entire diet is just jars of honey.

• 35:11Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. On the morning of August 17th, every regiment was set in motion, and all advanced in columns against the Russians. Here, every regiment without exception was under fire. Again and again, the troops attempted assaults. But because of the greater number of the Russians, we were forced back every time on this day, since their heavy artillery stood on heights and could hit everything. Finally, by night, we had made good our position on the heights overlooking the city, and the battle was discontinued.

• 35:46Jocko Willink?

  They attack again and again and again, but the enemy has the high ground. So they make no progress. They take, they take a little pause for the nighttime. Back to the book, the nighttime lasted three hours at most with the glow of the sun continuing. So as soon as the day broke, we marched against the city. The river was crossed below the city. The suburbs on the northern side were stormed, set on fire and burned up. My company's doctor named Stubble had his arm shot away in crossing the stream and he died afterward. No longer could I pay attention to my comrades and therefore knew not in what way they perished or were lost.

• 36:27Jocko Willink?

  Everyone fired and struck at the enemy in wild madness and no one could tell whether he was in front, in the middle or behind the center of the army. Finally, while cannonballs kept on raining out of the city, we stormed it.

• 36:45Jocko Willink?

  With the help of heavy cannon, most of the supporting peers on the high old city wall on which the Russians were defending themselves from the inside were partially destroyed. We broke through the gates, pressed from all sides against the city and put the enemy to flight.

• 37:03Jocko Willink?

  When I entered the city, we went toward the cloisters and churches. They had many holy images and altars as ours do. The only difference was that there was no holy water.

• 37:17Jocko Willink?

  So he, there's so much fighting going on. It's so bad, he can't even keep track of who's dying and how they're dying. They don't know where the enemy is. Eventually they pound the Russian positions hard enough with artillery that they're able to break through and when they get in there, they go to visit the churches. And they're hoping that they can find some water, but they, the Russians even took the holy water. So there's nothing to drink.

• 37:43Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, we resorted in the evening to the former camping ground. Here one saw the wounded men being brought together to be operated on in a brick kiln which lay on the heights above the city. Many arms and legs were amputated and bandaged. It all looked just like a slaughterhouse.

• 38:08Jocko Willink?

  On August 19th, the entire army moved forward and pursued the Russians with all speed. Four or five hours farther up the river, another battle started, but the enemy did not hold out long, and the march now led towards Mosheysik, called the so-called Holy Valley.

• 38:30Jocko Willink?

  From Smolensk to Mosheysik, the war displayed its horrible work of destruction. All the roads, fields, and woods lay as though sown with people, horses, wagons, burned villages and cities. Everything looked like the complete ruin of all that lived. In particular, we saw ten dead Russians to one of our men. Although every day, our numbers fell off considerably.

• 39:07Jocko Willink?

  That line hit me pretty hard. "Everything looked like the complete ruin of all that lived." And he's saying that for every one soldier that they had lost, they're finding ten dead Russians. And again, that's another thing, another tactic of the Russians. They're just gonna draw you in, and they've got people, got massive numbers of people. And they're willing to fight an attrition warfare, and give up their people as they surrender to do as much damage to the enemy as they can. And what they're doing is they're spreading out the logistics train. They've destroyed the support mechanism that you would use by going, eating what food was in the village. They destroyed that, they burned it all. And so now your logistics train gets completely spread out over these horrible roads.

• 39:50Jocko Willink?

  And that's how they know, that's the Russian tactic? And then, and then, when they, once they've done that, they wait for winter.

• 40:02Jocko Willink?

  "In such numbers were the Russians lying around that it seemed as if they were all dead. "God, how I remembered the bread and beer which I had enjoyed at home with such an indifferent pleasure! "Now, however, I must struggle half-wild with the dead and living. "How gladly would I renounce for my whole life the warm food so common at home if I only did not lack good bread and beer now?

• 40:36Jocko Willink?

  "I would not wish it for more all my life." "But these were empty, helpless thoughts. "Yes, the thought of my brothers and sisters so far away added to my pain. "Wherever I looked, I saw the soldiers with dead, half-desperate faces. "Many cried out in despair, 'If only my mother had not borne me!' "Some demoralized men even cursed their parents and their birth."

• 41:17Jocko Willink?

  "Napoleon"

• 41:22Jocko Willink?

  "On September 7th, every corps was assigned its place, and the signal to attack was given. "Like thunderbolts, the firing began both against and from the enemy. "The earth was trembling because the cannon fire and the rain of cannonballs crossed confusedly. "Several entrenchments were stormed and taken with terrible sacrifices, but the enemy did not move from their place.

• 41:53Jocko Willink?

  "Now the two armies moved more vigorously against one another, and the death cries and shattering gunfire seemed a hell. "Nine entrenchments were stormed. The French threatened to surround the enemy from the front, and finally the enemy gave way.

• 42:12Jocko Willink?

  "Within a space of an hour and a half, long and wide, the ground was covered with people and animals. "There were groans and whines on all sides."

• 42:28Jocko Willink?

  And that battle right there that he's talking about on September 7th, that is the bloodiest single day of all the Napoleonic wars. There's about 250,000 men that attacked and there was 70,000 casualties in the first day. And so I always refer to the Battle of La Somme, where there were 60,000 casualties in the first 24 hours. And so here we go, that's 70,000 in one day.

• 43:03Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, "We moved forward and camped by a forest on a height facing Moscow. It was a wood of green trees. Here, we not only had nothing to eat, but also no water to drink because of the high campsite. And the road through the fields was still covered with dead Russians." And this is another interesting point that happened in this battle. Is, you know, I talked about how they destroyed everything, destroyed the fields, kill all the livestock or drive them away, and make the people leave. So there was just, they were just barren wastelands. Also, the governor of Moscow, he opened up the prisons and let all these prisoners out, let all these people out of prisons,

• 43:48Jocko Willink?

  just to add to the mayhem.

• 43:54Jocko Willink?

  Now, going back to the book, Napoleon refused the peace treaty proposed to him. And that's actually, that's what he says in the book, and that's actually not what happened. There was, Alexander, he didn't accept the peace offering. So they got, you know, hey, Napoleon said, well, you know, we made it to Moscow. Do you want to have peace? The guy says, negative. You know, Napoleon was probably going to try and bargain for something, but he gets told no. Back to the book, "And the army, which had advanced some 30 hours farther had, farther on, had to retreat because the Russian army stationed in Moldavia was approaching.

• 44:39Jocko Willink?

  Now it was October 17th, and Napoleon held an army review and announced the departure for October 18th, early in the morning at 3 o'clock, with the warning that whoever should delay one hour would fall into the hands of the enemies."

• 44:54Jocko Willink?

  So now they're getting told, alright, you fought hard to get here, now we're gonna retreat, we're leaving at 3 o'clock in the morning.

• 45:02Jocko Willink?

  "From Moscow, the road led south through Malo and toward Kaluga.

• 45:11Jocko Willink?

  Here the humanity of the commanders began to mount, sorry, here the inhumanity of the commanders began to mount. The remaining troops' weapons were inspected, and many who did not have their weapons fairly rust-free got 12 to 20 strokes with a club until they were near desperation."

• 45:33Jocko Willink?

  Needless to say, this is not good leadership. Hey, you want your people to, you want your people to keep their weapons squared away, but if you're actually gonna beat them and make them less combat effective, you better find a better solution for your situation.

• 45:51Jocko Willink?

  Here we go back to the book. "The enemy attacked us. The enemy army behind us shattered all the army corps, leaving each of us then without his commanding officer. Those who were too weak to carry their weapons or knapsacks threw them away, and all looked like a crowd of gypsies.

• 46:10Jocko Willink?

  Everything was in confusion, and during almost the whole night the throng had to retreat to Mosheisik, everyone running so as to not fall into the hands of the enemy. Because of these considerable losses, cannon, munition wagons, coaches, and baggage wagons by the hundreds had to be thrown into the water, and where that was impossible, all wagons were burned, not one wheel being permitted to remain whole." So now, as they're retreating, they've got to, they don't want to leave this stuff behind, so they're throwing it into the rivers and setting the wagons on fire as they're retreating in total, total disrepair and disorganization.

• 46:56Jocko Willink?

  "The fighting, the shrieking, the firing of large and small guns, hunger and thirst, and all conceivable torments increased the never-ending confusion. Indeed, even the lice seemed to seek supremacy, for their number on both officers and privates was in the thousands."

• 47:19Jocko Willink?

  In these days, it snowed for the first time, and the snow remained. The cold arrived at the same time too, and the freezing of people multiplied the number of dead. No one could walk fifty paces without seeing men stretched out, half or completely dead.

• 47:46Jocko Willink?

  Similar situation that militaries seem to get into is lack of good winter clothing. It happens all the time. And that's what happens here. These guys are not prepared for this type of situation. They're not prepared for this cold.

• 48:08Jocko Willink?

  The distress mounted higher and higher, and horses were shot and eaten. Because I could not even get a piece of meat and my hunger came too violent, I took along the pot I carried, stationed myself beside a horse that was being shot, and caught up the blood from its breast. I set this blood on the fire, let it coagulate, and ate lumps without salt. The Russians advanced and waited us at Minsk. Everyone hastily fled. Cannon were thrown into the water. The hospitals were nearly all left to the enemy.

• 48:46Jocko Willink?

  And, as was commonly rumored, the hospitals were set afire and burned with their inmates. All the time, the greatest misery fell upon the poor sick, who usually had to be thrown from the wagons just to keep us from losing the horses and wagons entirely, and who were left to freeze. Left to freeze among the enemies, for whomever remained lying behind could not hope to be rescued.

• 49:18Jocko Willink?

  The march had to go on, and the striking, clubbing, and skirmishing commenced so frightfully that the cry of murder echoed all about. The Cossacks advanced upon the army from all sides. Again and again, people died, and sometimes froze to death. These were people who pressed toward the fire, but were seldom permitted to get there.

• 49:43Jocko Willink?

  So they died away from the fire, and very often, they were even converted into cushions in order that the living would not have to sit in the snow.

• 49:56Jocko Willink?

  It's, this, this... You've got situations where you're not only fighting against the enemy, but they're also... the troops are robbing and fighting each other, and, in some cases, murdering each other. And, he talks about this, and I'll talk about it a little bit more. I kinda jumped into them and the fires, and what happened was there was so little fuel for the fires, that they would form teams of six to eight guys and gather up wood, and then that team would sit around the fire. And it's so cold, that if you're not next to the fire, you're gonna freeze to death. But if you didn't participate in helping to build the fire, then you don't get to sit next to the fire. So, if you were too weak, if you were too hungry, if you were too thirsty, and you

• 50:40Jocko Willink?

  couldn't do your... carry your load, and get firewood, you weren't gonna be permitted to sit next to the fire, which meant you were gonna sit out there twenty feet from the fire, and you're gonna freeze to death.

• 50:53Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, "In every bivouac, soldiers who looked like specters crept around at night. The color of their faces, their husky breathing, and their dull muttering were horribly evident. For wherever they went, they remained hopeless. And no one allowed these shades of death to drag themselves to the fire. Usually six, eight, or ten of us had to combine to build a fire, since no other wood was to be had except rafter pieces from burned houses, or trees lying around, shattered wagons, etc. And without the cooperation of the men, nothing could be accomplished."

• 51:34Jocko Willink?

  Neither did we dare to fall asleep at the fire at the same time because no one was safe from stealing and robbery. Officers were beaten away from the fire just as privates were whenever they tried to press forward without merited claim. Only mutual support still procured true friendship. So they didn't care anymore. You're an officer, doesn't matter. If you didn't put out and build this fire, you're not going to get close to it. And I mentioned very quickly lice. And he, at one point, he hooks up with a major and they kind of become swim buddies trying to work together.

• 52:18Jocko Willink?

  And here we go to the book. "We came to a lumberyard and built a fire there. When the major had become somewhat warm, his subjects, and by subjects, he's referring to lice, plagued him with unusual wickedness. And for this reason, he asked me to kill the tormentors in his shirt collar. I did it. But when I had opened his collar, his raw flesh showed forth where the greedy beasts had gnawed in. I had to turn my eyes away with abhorrence and reassure the master that I saw nothing, telling him that my eyes hurt so much from the smoke that I could not see anything.

• 53:02Jocko Willink?

  These pests, however, were no less to be found on me, thousands of them. However, because of my constant restlessness, they could not get to the point of forcing me to treat them with flesh." So the lice is actually eating his friend, the major.

• 53:27Jocko Willink?

  And lice are no joke.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  It's like body lice.

• 53:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, body lice. Yeah, body lice. Like what kids get, like what your kids get from school. I don't know if your daughter's had it yet, but she will.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Well, I remember back when we were in school, it'd be like in your hair.

• 53:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, for sure. For sure. That's where it starts.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  I don't think I've ever seen or, I mean, I've heard of it.

• 53:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and actually, I, I read that section to my wife, because my wife, like all moms, absolutely despises lice. Because when they come home from school, it's this total nightmare. You gotta, everything's gotta get squashed into. My daughters all had crazy, long, thick hair. And so it would be hours of picking through that hair, trying to get the lice out when, when, when that would break out. But, you know, that's the thing is, you have the treatment for it, right?

• 54:19Speaker 01

  Shampoo.

• 54:20Jocko Willink?

  You have the shampoo, you have, you, you clean your clothing, and so it's gone. But what happens if you don't do that? What happens if you don't do that? What happens if they don't have any shampoo? What happens if you have to wear the same clothes over and over and over and over again? And by the way, you can't take the clothes even off because you'll freeze to death. So what happens? You got a nice little home for the lice, and they start to eat.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Eat you.

• 54:41Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 54:44Jocko Willink?

  And, and also, and so this whole time, obviously, they're retreating. They, they'd been defeated and they were retreating this whole time, and they're still being attacked. They're still being attacked by the Russians. Back to the book, the Russians pressed nearer and nearer from every side, and the murdering and tormenting seemed about to annihilate everyone. That day, we expected that everyone must be captured, killed, or thrown into the water. Everyone thought that his last hour had come, and everyone was expecting it. And so they, they're, they're kind of trapped, and he's, that's what he's saying. He's expecting that everyone's dead. We're all gonna die or get thrown in the water. And they get to a bridge. And there's actually two bridges. One of them gets destroyed.

• 55:29Jocko Willink?

  And now there's all these guys trying to get across one bridge to get to safety. They're being attacked. Back to the book, everyone crowded together into a solid mass, and nowhere could one see a way out or a means of rescue. From morning till night, we stood unprotected from cannonballs and grenades, which the Russians hurled at us from two sides.

• 55:53Jocko Willink?

  At each blow, from three to five men were struck to the ground, and yet no one was able to move a step to get out of the path of the cannonballs. Only by filling up of the space where a cannonball made room, could one make a little progress forward.

• 56:14Jocko Willink?

  I think that has to be one of the most insane situations that I've ever heard of. You're standing in a mass of people, hundreds and hundreds of people, trying to get across a bridge. It's very slow movement. You have nowhere to hide, and there's cannonballs from two sides that are ripping through the people, and the only progress you make is by stepping on and filling the holes of where these men have gone to the ground and died.

• 56:44Jocko Willink?

  And by the way, you're starving, thirsty, covered in lice.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:48Jocko Willink?

  Freezing.

• 56:51Jocko Willink?

  And this is always encouraging. Back to the book. Moreover, here in this region, Napoleon had left us and fled with the fresh reserve troops hurrying home ahead of the army. The general cry was, "Save himself, who can." So, again, myself included, we do a lot to glorify Napoleon. But here he is. His men are trapped, and a fresh group of reserves show up, and he high-tails it out of there with the fresh reserves.

• 57:32Jocko Willink?

  He eventually gets across that bridge, and now they're just, they're just every man for himself, but it's not really every man for himself because they gotta link up with a couple of other people to support each other, to protect each other. Because it is, it's just chaos.

• 57:50Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, it had been the fate of many hundreds when they sat down because of weakness or necessity that their clothing had been brutally torn from them and where they could not defend themselves, they froze to death naked. So now you got the choice, you know, oh, I see you, you gotta stop. Either you're tired or you're weak, or maybe you just gotta stop and go to the bathroom. Well, I see you with your, in a compromised state and I come over and just take your clothes from you, rip them off you. Why? Cause I wanna be warm and it's you or me. Dang. And that's their, his own team. That's his own team. His own team right there.

• 58:33Jocko Willink?

  And it just, again, obviously like I always have to do with these books, I mean, it goes on and on and on and on. Brutal, brutal. Back to the book, by the end of December, we reached the Polish border along the Memel River. Now I was free and left to myself again. As soon as I noticed a trail, I rode as fast as I could. And so now he's got a horse. One day along the road, I came to a nobleman's manor house at which I asked for bread and obtained not only bread, but also butter and brandy for there was a servant there who could speak German.

• 59:18Jocko Willink?

  And, and so that's it. I mean, almost as quickly as it all started, once he gets back to Poland, he gets a horse and he rides until he finds a nice manor house. And also it's not really a concentration of troops anymore that are showing up in these towns. Now it's small groups. It's not like thousands of soldiers are coming in that need to be fed. It's dozens at a time. And so there's actually the food and, and necessary means to support small numbers of soldiers that are coming in. And so it's, I don't wanna say it's anticlimactic, but it is a little bit because once he gets back to Poland and gets a horse, it's like it's over and he gets, escapes from all that.

• 1:00:03Jocko Willink?

  Pain and misery eventually gets to another town. I came to Ortelsberg and for the first time was given regular quarters. It was just Christmas Eve, a date I would not have known if I had not learned it from the landlord. Here I also washed myself for the first time, but I could not rid myself of the lice. We met a column of Bavarians who were en route from Konigsberg to the gathering place at Plock. They told us the news that the Wertenburgers too were gathering in Thorn and that the Germans all had permission to go home.

• 1:00:50Jocko Willink?

  Hence, I was one of the last to come to Thorn. The same night, I lodged in a house and bought some bread and wine for free quarters were not to be thought of. One could scarcely creep along the streets on account of the throngs of people. Early in the morning, I traveled across the bridge and saw with astonishment that the city during this year of war had been developed into an important fortress. However, they had used only wooden walls and sand around the high walls. I now grew weaker and weaker, and only with great exertion did I reach the city.

• 1:01:31Jocko Willink?

  Here I reached the third convoy of our people and presented myself immediately to the commander, who asked, "Where are you from?" "From the army," was my answer.

• 1:01:45Jocko Willink?

  "So you are also one of those Moscow bums," he retorted. And that was my welcome return.

• 1:02:00Jocko Willink?

  One of those Moscow bums.

• 1:02:04Jocko Willink?

  So, just to explain what those Moscow bums were. They started with 685,000 men. And had over 400,000 killed. So that's almost 60% killed. And I think what's what?

• 1:02:32Jocko Willink?

  What this book gives me is such a classic examples really of not only how to act, but also how not to act. So for one, from a leadership perspective,

• 1:02:52Jocko Willink?

  keep your people informed of what is happening. And that's one thing that struck me about this book. Oftentimes, these guys had no idea what was happening, what was going on, what was the next move? They did not know what was happening. Another thing, and this is clearly a lesson that we talk about all the time is, is you gotta be humble.

• 1:03:15Jocko Willink?

  Because from Napoleon's perspective, he thought he could pull this off, right? But he underestimated Russia's strength. He underestimated the time it would take. He underestimated the readiness of his own troops. He underestimated their strategy.

• 1:03:33Jocko Willink?

  So again, lesson learned for the millionth time, be humble.

• 1:03:41Jocko Willink?

  And then getting to this, this, this just that that closing statement

• 1:03:47Jocko Willink?

  about Moscow bums, I think that is a great reminder.

• 1:03:54Jocko Willink?

  To treat people with respect.

• 1:03:58Jocko Willink?

  And we talked about this, I think it was the last podcast, or maybe the podcast before. That doesn't mean you have to respect people. Cause if you don't know them, you can't just give away respect. But you treat people with respect because you don't know what they've been through.

• 1:04:15Jocko Willink?

  You don't know what struggles they've seen. How would you know that? And so when you throw out things like Moscow bum. And you don't know that this is a guy that's been actually through hell.

• 1:04:33Jocko Willink?

  Don't do that.

• 1:04:37Jocko Willink?

  And

• 1:04:39Jocko Willink?

  the last thing, you know, again, to take away from this book for me is to remember.

• 1:04:48Jocko Willink?

  You know, not just you in the business world, of course. Remember your frontline people. Remember what grind they're going through. Remember what it feels like to them to be out on the job site or in the factory or on the frontline doing sales. Remember what that is.

• 1:05:06Jocko Willink?

  But also for everyone. Remember the actual frontline troops.

• 1:05:16Jocko Willink?

  The suffering, the fear, the discomfort, the cold and the wet and the hunger.

• 1:05:27Jocko Willink?

  Remember that reality of war.

• 1:05:34Jocko Willink?

  And remember that it impacts those young soldiers and those young Marines. Remember them.

• 1:05:45Jocko Willink?

  Because it's really, really easy.

• 1:05:49Jocko Willink?

  To forget.

• 1:05:55Jocko Willink?

  So. I think that's all I've got. From the Diary of a Napoleonic Foot Soldier.

• 1:06:07Jocko Willink?

  Pretty epic read to hear that side of it.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:10Jocko Willink?

  Totally different. From sitting here and reading Napoleon's maxims.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:16Jocko Willink?

  Thinking about his wonderful brilliance.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  Bailing on his guys.

• 1:06:22Jocko Willink?

  Bailing on his guys. Oh, fresh reserves are here. Cool. I'm gonna use them to get out of here.

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:29Jocko Willink?

  And you know.

• 1:06:32Jocko Willink?

  I I get it. I was just reading another book.

• 1:06:36Jocko Willink?

  Uh, I can't, I can't think of it off the top of my head, but it was, it was talking about. You know, as a leader, you you're supposed to stay alive, right? Like, you can't take unnecessary risks as a leader. You're you, you can't be at the front of the assault. You shouldn't be. Sometimes you have to be, but you need to stay alive.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:55Jocko Willink?

  And so maybe you could give Napoleon a little credit there for that.

• 1:07:01Jocko Willink?

  But maybe not, maybe not too much.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, so.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  This one time on Seinfeld where George.

• 1:07:11Jocko Willink?

  Do you really wanna go there right now?

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  In a way, because it it sounds, but this, that, just what you said right there, this, cuz this seemed what like. This seems like what Napoleon was like.

• 1:07:22Jocko Willink?

  Seinfeld.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  Seinfeld, so George, this real, real, kinda, this guy. A fire breaks out and he. Um, pushes over an old lady, some kids, you know, to to escape.

• 1:07:36Jocko Willink?

  Oh, dang.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  To escape the fire, right? So after the fire, the fire, there was no fire. It was just some burnt, like burgers or something. So they're questioning him. And he's like, and that's what he says, kinda what you just said there. He's like. I had to lead these people to safety and if, you know, all is lost if the leader dies kinda thing. That's what he was saying. Everyone's looking at him like, oh my gosh. Yeah, like, bro, we saw what you did. You know, you stepped on the old lady going out kinda thing. So it kinda, it's kinda that deal. I think that's what Napoleon did.

• 1:08:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I I would tend to agree with you. And it's, you know, and then in the Navy, the. The captain of the ship goes down with the ship.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  Right, that's like the old school, right?

• 1:08:15Jocko Willink?

  At least, at least he's the last guy off.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:17Jocko Willink?

  At least, at a bare minimum, he's the last guy off. But oftentimes, he goes down with the ship because he's trying to fight it and save it the whole time.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of the old saying.

• 1:08:25Jocko Willink?

  Didn't carry that out. But he came back from this and got exiled and everything was, you know, his life was ruined.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:08:32Jocko Willink?

  But

• 1:08:34Jocko Willink?

  it'd sound like he ruined a hell of a lot more lives than just his own with this experience.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. Interesting how they kept mentioning the lice, you know?

• 1:08:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  That's good when they do that because it really does give you a feel of like, you know, you know.

• 1:08:49Jocko Willink?

  It's a little thing.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:50Jocko Willink?

  Seems like no big deal.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:52Jocko Willink?

  Until there's like constantly there.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Boom, boom, or the hunger or the cold when it's just constantly there because you don't really think of that. You know, you think of the firefight and the bombs and the, you know, those big things. But all those little things adding up is like.

• 1:09:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, because the lice are constant. Just constantly eating you.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  Is that what lice does? Eat, eat you, eat your skin?

• 1:09:12Jocko Willink?

  I don't know too much about lice. I just know that my wife freaks out when they come in the house.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:16Jocko Willink?

  Which when you got four kids. There was times where we just had, you know, a lice epidemic in the house. I'd come home and it looked like a Ghostbusters showed up and were securing the property.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  Quarantine.

• 1:09:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, quarantine. But you didn't have that opportunity for these guys.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:36Jocko Willink?

  You pick up some of that stuff in all these books, what those soldiers are suffering through.

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:42Jocko Willink?

  You know, whether it's, you know, jungle foot, foot rot, trench foot.

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:47Jocko Willink?

  You, you just, your feet are getting destroyed by the weather. Or you get the sores on your back. There's just all these things, all these things.

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  Like Travis Mills, remember he was talking about how the salt stuff on, on

• 1:10:03Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  Your back or whatever, the salt crystals forming on your back. I say, no one told me about that. And I heard, you know, a lot of my friends have been to, no one talked about that kind of stuff, you know?

• 1:10:13Jocko Willink?

  They were hot and sweaty for a long period of time with no showers.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's just.

• 1:10:17Jocko Willink?

  And humans don't, humans aren't, you, you're not used to that. You're not used, people aren't used to that. We're used to shower every day.

• 1:10:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:24Jocko Willink?

  You know?

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:10:24Jocko Willink?

  Fresh bar of soap.

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  Few times a day sometimes.

• 1:10:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:27Speaker 01

  If you're training.

• 1:10:28Jocko Willink?

  It, but you, you can't get used to, it's like your feet, right? You know, some people are barefoot all the time, like my son. He's barefoot all the time. He can sprint on. Jagged rocks with no effect. He doesn't even notice it. It's like tarzan.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  So is on Kauai.

• 1:10:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, with me, I'm all sensitive. You know the feet, because I gotta wear shoes. And I try and try and harden them up when I can, but lately I've been on the road too much. My feet are weak.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  Dang, bro.

• 1:10:55Jocko Willink?

  Weak. Makes me angry when I see my son sprinting across jagged rocks as if it's nothing.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Yep, tougher than you, bro.

• 1:11:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that makes me mad. I can't even fake it either. You know what I mean? You try and act all tough when you're walking. Try and act like it's not hurting.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:15Jocko Willink?

  But it hurts.

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. I had that too when I moved here from Kauai. I had that where my feet were all tough. Because, yeah, you go barefoot. You wear slippers all the time. You go barefoot everywhere.

• 1:11:25Jocko Willink?

  But slippers are different, bro. For those of you that don't know Hawaiian, slippers are flip flops. But flip flop, I wear flip flops all the time too. But it's totally different.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  Right, but you don't take them off all the time.

• 1:11:36Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  So here's to give you an idea of how common being barefoot is. On, in elementary school, I went to school with no shoes on before and no one said anything. And if you go to school with shoes on, you take them off immediately because you go run around in recess and stuff like that. You don't.

• 1:11:52Jocko Willink?

  Did I ever tell you that story about my son?

• 1:11:55Jocko Willink?

  So my son was homeschooled for a while.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:11:58Jocko Willink?

  And when he was homeschooled, he was, he would surf a lot. Even by, even by his standards or my standards. But one time he cut his foot on the reef. And he came up to the house and

• 1:12:14Jocko Willink?

  my wife says, you know, hey, go clean that out, put a Band-Aid on it, put on some socks and shoes. And he says, no. And my wife says, what? He says, no. She says, hey, go clean that out, put a Band-Aid on it. And put on some socks and shoes now, otherwise it's gonna get dirty. He's like, no. She says, hey, go and put a Band-Aid on that, clean it off, put a Band-Aid on it, put on socks and shoes. And he says, I can't. And she says, why not? And he says, I don't have any shoes.

• 1:12:50Jocko Willink?

  So it had been since he was homeschooled, it had been a really long time. And since he had had to wear shoes.

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:58Jocko Willink?

  And so he had outgrown his shoes. So it had been months since he had had shoes.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, no need to buy them.

• 1:13:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, don't need those things. Why are you doing those things? So, so yeah, after that, it was, we, I did, I, when I got home, I had to, she says, hey, go take him to get shoes. I said, why? She says, he needs shoes. Cause he cut his foot on the reef. Okay, well, why did you get him shoes?

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  You gotta get some shoes now.

• 1:13:21Jocko Willink?

  So, same thing. As you, barefoot. Just, he was just barefoot all the time. And he's still barefoot a lot of the time.

• 1:13:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's why his feet are tough. Yeah.

• 1:13:30Jocko Willink?

  Indian feet.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  And then now, you know, you come to the mainland where you wear shoes all the time. And we don't wear shoes in the house. In Hawaii, that's a thing. And so still, you know, but if you have like a carpet or something like that.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  Feet gets soft.

• 1:13:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:48Jocko Willink?

  Bummer.

• 1:13:50Jocko Willink?

  Well, remember those little things that the people out on the front lines are, are putting up with and suffering through on a daily basis.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. Kind of seems like that book escalated quickly with the hardship.

• 1:14:01Jocko Willink?

  It, it did. And I, I think it caught everyone off guard.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:05Jocko Willink?

  Again, I, I like to try and think about the guy, the guys back then, and they're thinking, ah, cool, you know, I've been working at my, whatever crappy job I have. And then all of a sudden, adventure time.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:15Jocko Willink?

  And good food time.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  Wine.

• 1:14:17Jocko Willink?

  And get treated like a hero time.

• 1:14:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:19Jocko Willink?

  And, and then they roll into the Russian campaign. It's, no, not so much. It's actually the exact opposite.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, one second, you're eating bread and butter and wine. Or was it brandy?

• 1:14:32Jocko Willink?

  Brandy, wine, cheese.

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  And then the next minute, you're killing your friend for his clothes.

• 1:14:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:38Speaker 01

  Cause you gotta live.

• 1:14:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I didn't cover some of those sections where he's getting robbed. They're gonna kill him. I mean, he's own guys.

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:47Jocko Willink?

  You know, or different, there's another little, you know, cause it's French soldiers and there's some German soldiers that are on the same side, but what do you think happens when things go crazy? All of a sudden, they start forming their own gangs, right? They're gonna stick together.

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:02Jocko Willink?

  Horrible, horrible. Well, speaking of.

• 1:15:07Jocko Willink?

  Crappy jobs.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:11Jocko Willink?

  Maybe you could do a crappy job of telling us how we could support this podcast. Actually, I'd prefer if you did a good job.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  I'm gonna try to do my best. Oh, back to that, what you were just saying, the, uh, you know, you form into little gangs.

• 1:15:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  In times of.

• 1:15:26Jocko Willink?

  Did that happen in Hawaii too?

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:15:28Jocko Willink?

  On Seinfeld?

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  See, I kinda, I'm gonna say it anyway. No, there's this movie, it's called The Divide. I think it's called The Divide, I'm pretty sure. It's like this weird movie. And some apocalyptic thing happens in the beginning and everyone like retreat, in this apartment building, retreats to the basement. Where the superintendent or somebody lives. And this guy is, uh, uh, he's like, uh, one of these doomsday prepper type dudes, you know? And, and I think he even has a man, a manual or something, he wrote them, I don't know. So they all go down, but it's everybody. It's like, you know, a girl with her daughter, um, you know, some dudes, some, you know.

• 1:16:10Jocko Willink?

  They got the broad cross-section of society.

• 1:16:12Speaker 01

  Exactly right.

• 1:16:13Jocko Willink?

  I don't, I haven't seen the movie, but I know the plotline. Cool. Check.

• 1:16:17Speaker 01

  But that's what they, that's essentially what the movie is about right there. Where everyone's just, we're all just people, right? We all live in this building. We're all kinda, and then they start to just divide into, um, teams and groups and they fight and, and the harder stuff gets, the more violent it gets. So they end up like killing each other in all these ways, like certain people have certain assets. So they can offer like value to this group, you know, kinda thing. And it's all within like.

• 1:16:44Jocko Willink?

  Who becomes the dominant group?

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  The dominant evil group is, is these just two friend guys. The person who lives is just the one girl.

• 1:16:54Jocko Willink?

  Only one girl lives.

• 1:16:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Everyone else dies in one way or another. Yeah. It's, it's a weird movie.

• 1:16:59Jocko Willink?

  Spoiler alert.

• 1:17:00Speaker 01

  But yeah, it, it's weird because you don't know, like who caused the bomb, you know, and all that. So, cause it's not about that.

• 1:17:09Jocko Willink?

  Cormac McCarthy called The Road. This is a book, it's not a movie. Well, there actually, there is a movie.

• 1:17:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:15Jocko Willink?

  But you don't know what happened there either. Just everything is different now. And it's different and gray and dark and everything's dead. There's like nothing living. No plants are living. Nothing's living.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:27Jocko Willink?

  And there's humans kinda wandering and, and trying to, trying to survive. It's a great book.

• 1:17:34Speaker 01

  But yeah, but yeah, that's, the, the movie essentially, they just kinda omit all these details like, that doesn't make sense. That's why the movie's weird, but when you think about it, that's what the movie's about.

• 1:17:43Jocko Willink?

  We should put Carmack McCarthy, The Road on the website for people to, uh, to get.

• 1:17:48Speaker 01

  See what up.

• 1:17:48Jocko Willink?

  Along with The Diary of a Napoleonic Foot Soldier. So people can get this. This would be a hard one to get. I don't know. It's a rare book. I don't even know where I got it from.

• 1:17:58Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. Where, yeah.

• 1:18:00Jocko Willink?

  Either somebody mailed it to me, which I appreciate. If it was you, let me know. Or I just had it. I don't know. I don't know where it came from. My books are out of control right now.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:12Speaker 01

  It's good, man. You have a dope little collection.

• 1:18:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:16Jocko Willink?

  It's not too little anymore.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Cool. Well, support. I'll try my best here.

• 1:18:22Jocko Willink?

  To not do a crappy job.

• 1:18:23Speaker 01

  To not do a crappy job. So, origin, talk about origin. originmaine.com, that's where you can go for all the cool origin stuff. Supplier of? Yes, Jaco has supplements. Jaco supplements. Krill oil, joint warfare. Two very good. Essential, I would say essential.

• 1:18:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:42Speaker 01

  Like if you're working out and stuff.

• 1:18:43Jocko Willink?

  Actually, somebody asked me yesterday which, someone said, hey, on a budget, got sore joints. Krill oil or joint warfare? That's a hard question. That might be the hardest question I've gotten on the podcast.

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:56Jocko Willink?

  Cause I, I honestly, I take them both all the time. So I don't know which one it is the better, the better one. Yeah. I, you know what I recommended though? I said joint warfare. Because I know the joint warfare, I have noticed specifically, my shoulders jacked up and the joint warfare, it was like healing. So with that, I said, hey, go with the joint warfare.

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:24Jocko Willink?

  At least to start with. If you can, get both.

• 1:19:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. For sure. And I would say

• 1:19:30Jocko Willink?

  I couldn't, I couldn't do muscle ups for like six months.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  Oh, cuz your shoulder.

• 1:19:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's jacked up, man. And you know me, I don't even say anything. I just, I work around it. Like for a while, I couldn't do any kipping pull ups. I could only do dead hang pull ups. That was the same as my shoulder. It was my shoulder. Like I couldn't, whatever. I don't know why. And, and you know, I would go see, sometimes I'd go see physical therapists. And I try and explain to them what's going on and they, they try and overlay their, their, their, they try and overlay their vision of my problem onto me.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:01Jocko Willink?

  Like for instance, it makes no sense that kipping pull ups would hurt, but dead hang pull ups wouldn't, right? Why does that make sense? That's what happened.

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  That's what's going on regardless.

• 1:20:12Jocko Willink?

  I could do ring dips, but I couldn't do ring muscle ups. I couldn't do them because it was injured. So, um, you know, and I, all I do is I, I modify the workout as best I can, you know, and I, for a while I was only doing dead hang pull ups. And so I would do weird things. I'd do dead hang all different grip pull ups. I'd do dead hang weighted pull ups. I did all kinds of different things to get through it. But I still like to do kipping pull ups. And eventually now I can do muscle ups again and I can, it was, it was hurt for, I'd say it's hurt for, it was hurt for about six months, but I've been back in the game now for, I don't know.

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  How'd you do it?

• 1:20:46Jocko Willink?

  How'd I do what? The shoulder? No idea. Just like general use. General usage.

• 1:20:53Speaker 01

  Bro, that's, Greg was, Greg hurt his back, messed it up.

• 1:20:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I know. I saw him yesterday.

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  You know how he did it?

• 1:21:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, opening a window in his bed, from his bed and his wife locked the window.

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  I know, man.

• 1:21:05Jocko Willink?

  His wife locked the window.

• 1:21:06Speaker 01

  He's telling me and I was laughing and I think he thought, he might've thought I was like laughing at him like, oh, you're getting all kind of thing. But I was laughing at that. I was laughing at just the idea of injuring your back really bad. By laying in bed.

• 1:21:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:20Speaker 01

  Opening a window.

• 1:21:21Jocko Willink?

  That's, that's like people telling you, get after it. If you weren't in bed and you know, he was trying to let cool air in, right? He's too hot. So he's trying to get more comfort.

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:31Jocko Willink?

  More comfort than laying in bed.

• 1:21:33Speaker 01

  That's irony, right? That's what that is.

• 1:21:35Jocko Willink?

  I, I don't even wanna, I'm gonna knock on wood cuz like I don't, I don't even say anything. When someone gets injured, man, I hate it. Cuz I hate being injured. That's the weird thing too is. When you get injured, you think that injury, it seems like the injury is gonna last forever. I always have that feeling like this is just never gonna go away. Cause you don't notice these incremental little things, but when you get injured, if you remember the fact that there's tiny, tiny incremental progress being made and you keep working and keep doing it, eventually it's gonna heal and you'll be joyous again.

• 1:22:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:08Jocko Willink?

  You'll be joyous again.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  Appreciate that too. You know, like when you're out and you're like freaking, I remember that day when I was fully not injured. And I just chose to not go train or not, but then when you're injured, you're like, oh my gosh.

• 1:22:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. You do what you can. People ask me that all the time. What do you do when you get injured? Do what you can. Do what you can. That's what I did. Like I couldn't do muscle ups. Okay, cool. I would do ring dips. I would do other, I would do every other exercise around muscle ups, except for muscle ups themselves, cause I couldn't do them at that time.

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:41Jocko Willink?

  Now I'm back in the game. Kipping pull-ups are back.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  Got that joint warfare.

• 1:22:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, got the, yeah, joint warfare.

• 1:22:48Speaker 01

  Boom.

• 1:22:48Jocko Willink?

  Get it.

• 1:22:49Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:22:50Jocko Willink?

  And krill oil. I'm telling you, I think, I think you should do both. That's what, that's what my opinion is. And that started for me years ago when I went on krill oil and glucosamine chondroitin. And now of course we have it. In the glorious super krill.

• 1:23:06Speaker 01

  Of course, yeah.

• 1:23:07Jocko Willink?

  Joint warfare.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:08Jocko Willink?

  And you're supporting the podcast, which is cool.

• 1:23:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that's a good one. Get that for your joints. Uh, also, gis and rash guards. A lot of times people when they start jujitsu, and this actually, this, this was going on since the beginning. You'd be like, what gi should I get?

• 1:23:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:25Speaker 01

  And let's be, at, at the time, I was like, okay, and actually Origin was one of them, but I didn't know as much about Origin. I was like, yeah, they're cool. And then the one I saw was like, kinda expensive. So I was like, yeah, Origin's cool. If you want the high-end one and stuff like that, and it was cool. But Origin has all levels.

• 1:23:44Jocko Willink?

  No, actually not true. They don't have all levels.

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 1:23:47Jocko Willink?

  If you wanna get a $28 gi.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  No, okay.

• 1:23:51Jocko Willink?

  You can't get a low level gi.

• 1:23:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:53Jocko Willink?

  You can get medium or, or awesome.

• 1:23:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, okay, it's a good point. So the medium is.

• 1:23:58Jocko Willink?

  Cause the first gi I ever bought was $40.

• 1:23:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, see, I'd, I have never.

• 1:24:01Jocko Willink?

  It lasted three weeks.

• 1:24:04Speaker 01

  I bought one for ninety-nine dollars and it was, yeah, it was really, really bad. And I don't even know the, the brand. I don't even know if it had a brand, but yeah, it shrunk to the point where it like it fit normal and it shrunk all, almost up to my elbow, by the way. Yeah, and so to me, if the next one I want to say was like hundred twenty, it was like a regular, one of these brands, I don't know, I forget. And it was fine. Oh, I know the brand. I'm not gonna say it to hate on it, but it, to me, it shrunk and it wasn't that cool. Nonetheless, now that I have Or- Origin Gi, I have two of them, by the way, they are way better. And I'm not, I know, just you're looking at me like it just sounds like, oh, I got this and it's way better. The thing is, it is.

• 1:24:45Jocko Willink?

  No, they are.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  It is straight up way better.

• 1:24:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  And they have different kinds of weaves or whatever, but they have the, and really the point there is when people ask me, and if you're wondering what gi to get, go on, go on the website and you can see whichever, you know, like if you, if you're like, hey, I want the Cadillac one, which I recommend, by the way, because it's extra dope. Um, or, or, you know, you just want the regular one. They're all good.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  Quality, all made in America too, by the way.

• 1:25:11Jocko Willink?

  And rash guards.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  Rash guards, yeah. Pete just sent me three rash guards.

• 1:25:15Jocko Willink?

  Did he send you the?

• 1:25:18Jocko Willink?

  That thing is dope.

• 1:25:19Speaker 01

  One other ones, uh, American made, American hands.

• 1:25:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:25:23Speaker 01

  Your hand.

• 1:25:24Jocko Willink?

  But wait, did he send you the other one? He didn't send it to you.

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  Which one?

• 1:25:27Jocko Willink?

  Does, it has, I'll give you a hint. It says, it's got the chemical formulation for sodium on it. Do you have that one?

• 1:25:35Speaker 01

  No, no, no, yeah.

• 1:25:36Jocko Willink?

  You'll see it.

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no, no, I saw, I saw some samples, but yeah, some good rash guards and they fit good too. So, and again, I'm not gonna say the, the brand name, but this is a, a very good, kinda high-end combat sports brand. Rash guards, gi's, uh, I'm not gonna say the name because it doesn't matter because it's a ma- matter of opinion anyway, so I don't want to influence that way, but I got some rash guards. And I was like, cool, they look dope and I'm, I'm like, cool, but you put it on and it's. It just didn't work out, you know? Like, I can't wear this because just how it fits and stuff like that.

• 1:26:10Jocko Willink?

  Was it baggy?

• 1:26:12Speaker 01

  It was baggy?

• 1:26:12Jocko Willink?

  No way, I was actually trying to make a joke.

• 1:26:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:15Jocko Willink?

  Cause like if you have a baggy rash guard, dude, you need to start jacking some steel.

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  Alright, yeah, and...

• 1:26:19Jocko Willink?

  You start damn lifting and squatting if your rash guard's baggy.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  I agree with that, but it was weird because it was baggy in certain areas, you know?

• 1:26:28Jocko Willink?

  That is weird.

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  I don't know, either way, originmaine.com, it's some cool stuff. Also...

• 1:26:35Jocko Willink?

  It's made in America, no big deal.

• 1:26:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, from beginning to end, too.

• 1:26:39Jocko Willink?

  It's just funny, you just said the whole thing, but the actual, one of the best things about origin is made in America.

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:45Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome, in my opinion.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:47Jocko Willink?

  With American hands.

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  Well, then again, I don't know, think about this, what if it was all made in America? It was, you know, then legit from, from the cotton grown all the way to the end product. But when you get it, the rash guard fits all baggy in certain areas. I don't know, kinda defeats the purpose, really.

• 1:27:02Jocko Willink?

  Well, yeah, look what happened with cars in America in the eighties, right? People started buying Japanese cars because of the American quality. They wanted to buy America, but the American quality wasn't there. It's back now.

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:11Jocko Willink?

  But at that time period, yeah, your, your, your rear view mirror was gonna fall off.

• 1:27:19Speaker 01

  Bumper.

• 1:27:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  It's kinda like, you know, I don't know if you ever had a, had a friend or something, or maybe yourself, you start like a clothing brand, right? I remember back when I first started jiu-jitsu, like everyone, that was kinda like the thing, start a clothing brand.

• 1:27:31Jocko Willink?

  Start jiu-jitsu, month three, start a clothing brand.

• 1:27:34Speaker 01

  Clothing brand, yeah, that was kind of like the joke, you know? And so, a lot of people, they, not a lot, I don't wanna say a lot of people, but some people, they, you know, then, you, that, that's kind of the, the textbook process. You start your brand, you give away

• 1:27:49Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 1:27:49Speaker 01

  your stuff to key people and, you know, hopefully it kinda takes hold and takes off. So, sometimes I'd get the shirt and the designs are cool for the time, they were cool, but then when you put on the shirt, it doesn't like fit correct or, you know? Cause when they got the blanks.

• 1:28:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  They just were like, hey, I gotta cut costs, hey, it's a blank, black shirt.

• 1:28:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:11Speaker 01

  You know, what's the difference kinda thing, but the thing is, there is a difference. Then when you put it on, bruh, the design can be outstanding, but if no one's gonna wear it, then who cares? So, who knows?

• 1:28:24Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:28:25Speaker 01

  But it is a big deal, made in America, from the cotton all the way to the end product, that is a big deal. And that's on top of the fact.

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  That the product is perfection. Concur. Also, speaking of fitness, being fit, were we talking about being fit? Not really, but you go with it, bro. Yeah, yes, oh, yes, we were, muscle ups and joint warfare, that's what I was thinking about. Yeah, yeah, true, true. So, kettlebells, I'm into. I think, that, this is just me, because I'm spoiled, but the kettlebells from Onnit, and, you know, there's like copycat brands, you know, they do that, I'm not saying with kettlebells specifically. Are there copycat, uh, artistic kettlebells? Here's the thing, I don't, I don't know if there's, they're specifically copycat.

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  Because there, there's other ones, yeah, for sure, there's like a skull one, and like, this, this other ones, but... If my head was a kettlebell, how much would it weigh?

• 1:29:27Speaker 01

  I don't know, bro, probably, yeah, eighty-eight pounds. I love the, the heavy one. Oh, yeah, I saw one that's like dumb heavy, like, it's dumb. Over a hundred and three? Yeah, it's like two hundred something pounds. Oh, that's big. Yeah. Damn. Skull one, someone sent it to me on Twitter. Oh, I thought they sent it to you in real life, I was about to come and take it from your house. Bro, you know the man, I buy like, when, um, you know, okay, so what, how I did it was, I got the, the chimp, right? It's like thirty-five pounds or something like that, so I get two of them, and that, that's when I started kettlebells. So they're like, start, start lighter, like, so... They didn't mean thirty-five, dude. Yeah. But whatever. Wait, is that too light, or is it not light enough? Not too light, come on.

• 1:30:11Speaker 01

  Bro, I, when I started, I was like, this is appropriate, I gotta be careful even with this, because I had never really done it. I picked it up, and you know, so I was staying safe, and I was like, cool, formulated a good workout, now it's time to get the bigger ones, right? So I went up to, they're out of the one I wanted, so I went all the way up to the werewolf, which is like sixty-two pounds. That's good. So I'll start doing that with that, got good at that, boom, boom, boom, so...

• 1:30:36Speaker 01

  But keep in mind, I'm getting them from Onnit. Like, I don't, I have the luxury of getting like the good ones, you know? I'm all spoiled. So, I'm over here, like, I'm about to say, hey, everyone should have the Design 1, because it's like cooler and I don't know, you get kind of, you know how like when you get like a new cool rash guard? Right? Something with a cool design on it, you wanna wear it and use it, you know? You know what I'm saying? It's kind of that, you get that.

• 1:31:02Jocko Willink?

  No, I don't get emotional about that kind of stuff.

• 1:31:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do, whatever, bruh, yes you do, yes you do. Anyway, um, yeah. Primal bells, zombie bells, and legend bells, those are the ones. Cool jump ropes on there too, by the way. And other fitness stuff, interesting fitness stuff. And, um, again, the kettlebells, I recommend the kettlebells, but like me, start light. Don't swing it and hit your shin, stuff like that, you gotta be careful.

• 1:31:29Jocko Willink?

  You can jack yourself up.

• 1:31:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:31Jocko Willink?

  There's some technique involved.

• 1:31:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:32Jocko Willink?

  And you don't recognize that the momentum of swinging a kettlebell is a real thing.

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then.

• 1:31:37Jocko Willink?

  It only weighs thirty-five pounds, in your case, but when you swing it to the top of, and then you have to stop that thing, it's not weighing twenty-five, thirty-five pounds anymore, it's got momentum.

• 1:31:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then when you stop, it's still swinging.

• 1:31:49Jocko Willink?

  Centrifugal force, yes.

• 1:31:49Speaker 01

  So, you, you know the one where it's like a regular snatch, I guess it's not a snatch, but the clean?

• 1:31:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:55Speaker 01

  You know, you go up and it's, they call it the rack position.

• 1:31:58Jocko Willink?

  Right, right.

• 1:31:59Speaker 01

  So even that, I've seen it done, so I'm like, oh, I can do that, I'll just use it light, but I'm doing it wrong. I'm like flipping it, flipping it up where it lands on the back of my wrist, and then it like pulls my shoulder back. So I'm like, how do they do this? I was like, ah, I just gotta use, but then I looked it up on YouTube, the actual technique. And then I'm like, oh, okay, you know?

• 1:32:16Jocko Willink?

  I almost chipped my tooth the other day with two front squats, uh, with the kettlebell.

• 1:32:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:32:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. I don't know, I just, I just like lifted it up really hard, because I was going from the, picking it from the floor, to like up to the, to the position to start squatting, and I like did it so hard that I hit my front tooth.

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:34Jocko Willink?

  Idiot.

• 1:32:35Speaker 01

  Straight up kettlebell.

• 1:32:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:36Speaker 01

  Brother thing. Yeah, they can be dangerous, just be careful, that's the point. Anyway, Onnit.com slash Jaco, check them out, those are cool ones. They have the regular ones too, but, I don't know, man, once you have the Design 1, you can't go back, my opinion. Not that I have any basis for comparison, because I've never had the normal ones, but I've seen them in other gyms, used them before, and it's not the same, my opinion. Also, if you want to get this book, The Diary of Napoleonic Foot Soldier.

• 1:33:06Jocko Willink?

  There you go.

• 1:33:08Speaker 01

  Or any books that Jaco talks about, or writes, author, by the way. We have direct links to all these books, per episode, on our website, JacoPodcast.com. The Books, the Books Section, it's Books from Episodes, I think that's what it's called. Anyway, go on there, click through there. Not only is it organized, you can find the correct book that you're looking for, it supports the podcast. Or if you're doing any other shopping that day, or that moment, or whatever, boom, carry on. Good way to support. Also, subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, all these podcasting, providing platforms. And YouTube, by the way.

• 1:33:49Speaker 01

  YouTube, on top of the video version of this podcast, as we all know, we have little excerpts that you can share. So you don't have to share the whole thing, or it's just more of a chance someone's gonna listen to what you're sharing.

• 1:34:01Jocko Willink?

  What else should we put on YouTube?

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  What else?

• 1:34:03Jocko Willink?

  I think I should put stuff on YouTube, because I think I could do it more frequently than you.

• 1:34:07Speaker 01

  No, actually, maybe not, because I do it three times a week, if you count the podcast.

• 1:34:12Jocko Willink?

  Really?

• 1:34:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:13Jocko Willink?

  Really?

• 1:34:14Speaker 01

  I've gotten into a good routine. Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

• 1:34:19Jocko Willink?

  Okay, I'll look into that.

• 1:34:21Speaker 01

  For the most part.

• 1:34:21Jocko Willink?

  Okay. I still think, maybe I should do something. I want to do something like, can you do live on YouTube?

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:34:27Jocko Willink?

  I can do that.

• 1:34:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know, I've never done it before, but Joe Rogan does it all the time.

• 1:34:33Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:34:34Speaker 01

  Live, yeah, YouTube Live stuff. Nonetheless, subscribe to the YouTube, there's some, also deleted scenes, that's what we'll put on there, maybe not as often, but if you want to see some behind the curtain, right? That's the expression? Behind the scenes.

• 1:34:49Jocko Willink?

  Do you want to hear me swear? Cause apparently I just unleashed a bunch of swear words on the skinny knees.

• 1:34:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:34:56Jocko Willink?

  Podcast.

• 1:34:57Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:34:58Jocko Willink?

  I was swearing earlier today, pre-recording today as well. I forget what we were talking about, but it was something that made me feel the urge to swear.

• 1:35:04Speaker 01

  Something emotional.

• 1:35:05Jocko Willink?

  What was it?

• 1:35:07Speaker 01

  I don't know. We were talking about a few things.

• 1:35:08Jocko Willink?

  We'll have to check deleted scenes.

• 1:35:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll go to the videotape.

• 1:35:11Jocko Willink?

  X, X or R rated.

• 1:35:14Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:35:14Jocko Willink?

  Not X rated.

• 1:35:15Speaker 01

  No, no, no, thankfully.

• 1:35:17Jocko Willink?

  That's like nudity and whatnot.

• 1:35:18Speaker 01

  And whatnot, sure.

• 1:35:19Jocko Willink?

  That won't be on there.

• 1:35:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no, afraid not. Um, also, so yeah, that's YouTube. YouTube, subscribe if you haven't already. If you're into YouTube. Saying that's a good way to support. Also, Jaco has a store. It's called Jaco Store. Go to jockostore.com. Makes sense, right? That's where you can get shirts, our shirts, you know, the podcast shirts, discipline, freedom, all this stuff. Some cool ones on there. Um, look at those and if you want something, get something. We also have women's stuff on there.

• 1:35:51Speaker 01

  For the lady troopers out there. Or the guys, you know, your wife, daughter, sister, mom, boom. Dave Burke hit me up. He was like, my wife wants some shirts. I said, you got it.

• 1:36:05Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:36:06Speaker 01

  No worries.

• 1:36:07Jocko Willink?

  She's in the game.

• 1:36:08Speaker 01

  Yep. Uh, some patches on there, hoodies, the heavier hoodies.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  I got them.

• 1:36:15Jocko Willink?

  They're live?

• 1:36:16Speaker 01

  They're not live right now, but what?

• 1:36:19Jocko Willink?

  Why are you teasing everyone, man?

• 1:36:21Speaker 01

  They'll be live this week, hundred percent. How about that?

• 1:36:23Jocko Willink?

  Okay, good.

• 1:36:25Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:36:26Jocko Willink?

  Heavy. New England.

• 1:36:27Speaker 01

  For New England people, yes.

• 1:36:29Jocko Willink?

  Minnesota.

• 1:36:30Speaker 01

  Everybody, they're for everybody.

• 1:36:31Jocko Willink?

  Minnesota, Chicago.

• 1:36:32Speaker 01

  Yep. Michigan, all them.

• 1:36:34Jocko Willink?

  Michigan.

• 1:36:34Speaker 01

  Canada.

• 1:36:35Jocko Willink?

  Cause when you're up there, you, you, sometimes you just wear that, just, that's what you wear.

• 1:36:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:41Jocko Willink?

  That's all I used to wear when I was a kid.

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:43Jocko Willink?

  From. Like November until March. Just a heavy hoodie. That's it. Get some.

• 1:36:51Speaker 01

  Can't relate.

• 1:36:52Jocko Willink?

  Not the hoodie that you made last year. The Kawaii version.

• 1:36:55Speaker 01

  That's not even the Kawaii version. It's like the, that's like the big island.

• 1:37:00Jocko Willink?

  It's not even SoCal version. That thing was too light for SoCal.

• 1:37:03Speaker 01

  Nah, it was medium.

• 1:37:05Jocko Willink?

  Summer. Eh, I guess maybe.

• 1:37:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was like medium.

• 1:37:06Jocko Willink?

  Maybe, yeah. Looking forward to heavy.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, heavy's good. Um, yeah, so yeah, hoodie's on there. Other stuff, check it out. Jaco's store dot com. That's a good way to support.

• 1:37:14Jocko Willink?

  Hats too, right?

• 1:37:15Speaker 01

  Hats.

• 1:37:16Jocko Willink?

  You're supposed to get me hats.

• 1:37:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the hats, the hats, the hats are for you. The hats are for the people.

• 1:37:21Jocko Willink?

  No, but I need hats too.

• 1:37:25Speaker 01

  There's some hats on there. Oh, you, you need hats? Go to Jaco's store dot com.

• 1:37:29Jocko Willink?

  Okay, cool. I'll check that out.

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  There you go, bro.

• 1:37:33Speaker 01

  Also, psychological, psychological warfare, good way to support yourself. Good way to help yourself. Good way to spot yourself.

• 1:37:44Speaker 01

  On your journey, I'm going back to journey, same journey now. On your journey slash campaign against weakness, like, you know, you're on the program now. You're waking up early now. You're working, I got a workout program, five days. I don't know.

• 1:37:59Jocko Willink?

  You know, it's interesting you use the word program. This is interesting.

• 1:38:03Jocko Willink?

  Leif

• 1:38:06Jocko Willink?

  and the Delta Platoon Commander Seth Stone, back in the day. They like asked me for, uh, like what I did for workouts.

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:15Jocko Willink?

  And I wrote out my workouts and it's actually loosely, they're in, they're in the Discipline Equals Freedom field manual. But when I gave it to him, it just said at the top of the thing, it said, "The program."

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, actually, I really like that expression and I've been using it from, it's like one of those things, you know how you always say, uh, discipline will not allow that?

• 1:38:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:35Speaker 01

  I'll say, "I'm on the program."

• 1:38:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:38:37Speaker 01

  Well, I don't even know what program. It's just, I'm on.

• 1:38:39Jocko Willink?

  Program.

• 1:38:41Speaker 01

  Exactly right.

• 1:38:42Jocko Willink?

  The program.

• 1:38:43Speaker 01

  Exactly right. So if you're on the program, which really life is you should be on the program.

• 1:38:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  If you're not, you're just like, what? You're like, short term.

• 1:38:53Jocko Willink?

  You're not on the program. We know that.

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's bad. And sometimes you don't even realize that you're not on the program. I think that's the problem. You don't even realize you're not on the program.

• 1:39:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, if you've never been on the program, then you don't know that you're not on it.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, what does JP call it? Like, unconsciously incompetent or something like that? You know, he has all the things, all the psychological states in learning. I don't know. Either way, if you don't know, you're not on the program. You don't even know what you don't know, kind of thing.

• 1:39:21Jocko Willink?

  Got it.

• 1:39:21Speaker 01

  That kind of thing. Anyway.

• 1:39:23Jocko Willink?

  Got it.

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  Back to the program. If you're on the program, but you experience those days, those moments of weakness.

• 1:39:32Speaker 01

  And you want Jocko to get you through them, help you through them, like a little spot. He's not gonna take over. But as a spot, you listen to psychological warfare for your moment of weakness, and it goes by situation, right? Waking up. There's like waking up one. There's a missing workout one. There's procrastination one. There are all these. What it is, is it's an album with tracks. Each track is for each weakness that you may or may not come across. That's good.

• 1:39:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So as we got into, and that, a lot of people like that album.

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:07Jocko Willink?

  And so when Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual was being created.

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:40:13Jocko Willink?

  The, the normal option is you publish books on audible.com. And then they put together the book with chapters that you can listen to through the Audible app. It's very confined to that.

• 1:40:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:29Jocko Willink?

  So for the field manual, I, I.

• 1:40:34Jocko Willink?

  The way the field manual is written, it's not written like a book. It's more like an album.

• 1:40:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:40Jocko Willink?

  That you'd need to use with tracks. So anyways, to make a long story short, we are gonna make another psychological warfare album. But in the meantime, we put out Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, which is the book that just came out. And if you're looking for an audible version of that, you have to go to iTunes, Amazon Music, Google Play.

• 1:41:02Speaker 01

  Everywhere.

• 1:41:03Jocko Willink?

  Everywhere that they sell MP3 tracks, albums with tracks. And that's where you can get Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, audio version.

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  And that, that one makes a lot more sense though, with, with it this way.

• 1:41:16Jocko Willink?

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:41:17Speaker 01

  Because it is like a manual, you know how like?

• 1:41:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but, yeah, and the thought was, I didn't want to put it on an audible book, the audible format. Because then people can't put it on their alarm clock, they can't, they can't just jump through it and listen to that track. They can't put it into their playlist while they're working out. So therefore, not use, not, not good.

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  Not as useful, yeah.

• 1:41:37Jocko Willink?

  So I know we're not gonna sell as many, because when it's linked right there on the website, on Amazon, people can click right to it. So we're not gonna sell as many, but it's better anyways, doesn't matter. I'd rather, I'd rather put out good product.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:49Jocko Willink?

  That's my concern.

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  And especially when you're referring to it, because that's really what a manual does.

• 1:41:53Jocko Willink?

  Keep your money, audible. No, because think of the link would be right there, you know, because how many people, so, okay, on Amazon? It says formats for the book, you know, hardcover, and then?

• 1:42:05Speaker 01

  Kindle.

• 1:42:05Jocko Willink?

  Kindle, and then audible.

• 1:42:07Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 1:42:08Jocko Willink?

  Mine doesn't have that.

• 1:42:09Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 1:42:09Jocko Willink?

  So people can't click on it. And they ask me, they've been asking me on Twitter, when's the audible call? Are you gonna do an audible one? And I just have to respond to everyone. It's on, blah, blah, blah, blah.

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 1:42:17Jocko Willink?

  So, again, we're just, I had more concern that people that have it can utilize it properly.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I use Audible for sure, I do, but not as much. I use Kindle, that's where I read books, the actual, like, reading part of it. It's a long story, but thi- this with the tracks, hmm.

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  It is better because when you want to refer to, you know how like, it's like, okay, I want to go to the martial arts part. Or the, you know, all this, these other parts. When you want to refer to it, it's gonna be, I'm thinking back with the audible format, it's gonna be harder to be like, okay, let me go and find it.

• 1:42:54Jocko Willink?

  You're not gonna enjoy doing that effectively.

• 1:42:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it is good to, you know, listen to one whole chapter, yeah, exactly.

• 1:43:03Jocko Willink?

  Hit it up.

• 1:43:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it does make more sense when you think about the whole scope of the Discipline Equals Freedom field manual.

• 1:43:10Jocko Willink?

  So, if, yeah, if you get the opportunity to tell people that and tell them, because I can't tell everyone, I tried.

• 1:43:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:17Jocko Willink?

  That where you can find it.

• 1:43:18Speaker 01

  Here's the, here's the thing though, ultimately, it's not hard to get, I mean, it's.

• 1:43:21Jocko Willink?

  No, it's not hard to get at all.

• 1:43:23Speaker 01

  It's just not on the same as the.

• 1:43:24Jocko Willink?

  Where you'd expect it, and people expect to find things where they expect to find things.

• 1:43:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:43:28Jocko Willink?

  And so, we've thrown them a curve ball.

• 1:43:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, a little.

• 1:43:31Jocko Willink?

  You know, but it's, it's, like I said, to produce something that would be less usable by people in the manner that they want to use it. Or make it a little bit harder to find, like I said, maybe not as many people can buy it because they won't find it, I don't care. I'd rather have the people that really want it get to use it the way they want to use it. That's, that's how I roll.

• 1:43:53Speaker 01

  The slowest curve ball in the history of curve balls.

• 1:43:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:57Speaker 01

  Here, get it on, I.

• 1:43:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, here, you have to do an extra click.

• 1:44:03Jocko Willink?

  You'd be surprised how many people have asked on social media when it, where, when it's coming out.

• 1:44:07Speaker 01

  Oh, right, in audio format. Yeah, that does make sense though, especially if you're used to listening to audiobooks. And you're like, okay, I want to, this is a book, right? Where's audio, it totally makes sense, audible.

• 1:44:18Jocko Willink?

  Curve ball.

• 1:44:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is a curve ball, that's true. I dig it.

• 1:44:21Jocko Willink?

  Uh, hey, while you're on Amazon, also, you can get Jaco White Tea, which tastes good and will guarantee you a deadlift of 8,000 pounds.

• 1:44:32Jocko Willink?

  Some other books you can get on there are Way of the Warrior Kid. That's for kids that want to get after it, or even if you want your kid to get after it. You want to be smarter, stronger, better, you want to eat healthier, get them that book.

• 1:44:48Jocko Willink?

  Awesome feedback on that book, which is some of my favorite feedback is pictures of kids reading Way of the Warrior Kid.

• 1:44:54Speaker 01

  Doing pull ups.

• 1:44:55Jocko Willink?

  And doing pull ups and doing jujitsu and doing flashcards and their little book reports. I like seeing little book reports. Remember it's like when you do a book report when you're seven years old, it's kind of a big deal. It's like you're getting published for the first time as an author. You're like, hey, I wrote this. This is my assessment of the book Way of the Warrior Kid. Probably the most important thing that's ever been written. Check it out and I also drew a picture. You know what I mean? That's Uncle Jake right there. You can't hardly tell because it doesn't look anything like him, but it's supposed to be Uncle Jake. Ours not my thing over here, but yeah, I like seeing those little things. We got the book Extreme Ownership, written by myself and my brother Leif Babin. And it is about combat leadership.

• 1:45:41Jocko Willink?

  Discipline equals Freedom Field Manual, yes, the book that just came out. And thanks everyone for getting it, for spreading the word. For I like a bunch of people have put on stacks. They're getting it not just for them because they're on the path, they're on the program. They want to get their friends on the program. They want to get their work person. They want to get their kid on the program. Father, Son, saw that one yesterday on social media. Father, Son, boom, boom, two copies.

• 1:46:15Jocko Willink?

  So that's awesome and appreciated. There's some, there's some funny reviews. I gotta, I'll have to read some of the reviews, some of the Amazon reviews. Some of them are awesome. There's one, I should pull it out, but there's some awesome reviews. So if you want to write a review. You can do that too.

• 1:46:35Speaker 01

  It's a work of art, really. I mean, to look at it.

• 1:46:38Jocko Willink?

  I think it looks pretty cool.

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  It's pretty.

• 1:46:40Jocko Willink?

  There's no other books that really look like that.

• 1:46:43Speaker 01

  Not that I know of, no.

• 1:46:46Jocko Willink?

  So, that's that. And like I said, the, the audio version is on MP3, Google Play, iTunes, Amazon Music and all that. If you need leadership support for your team or your business, then you can hire Echelon Front, which is our leadership and management consulting company. It's me, Leif Babin, JP Denell, Dave Burke. Email [email protected]. And if you kinda liked hanging out with us on this podcast, and you want to maybe cruise with us some more, you can find us on the interwebs, Twitter, Instagram, and Fishy Boa.

• 1:47:34Jocko Willink?

  Echo is at Echo Charles, and I am at Jocko Willink. And again, thanks to all of you out there in uniform, on the front lines, like Jacob Walter in the dirt and the filth and the discomfort and the danger out there, holding the line. Thank you all for what you do to the police and law enforcement and firefighters and medical emergency technicians. And the rest of the first responders, thank you for keeping us safe here at home. To the

• 1:48:13Jocko Willink?

  teachers out there, that are teaching our kids, teaching those young troublemakers like I was.

• 1:48:24Jocko Willink?

  Putting them on the right path. Teaching them that discipline equals freedom. Thank you for doing what you do. And the rest of you that are out there doing your job and doing it to the best of your ability, making life better for yourself, your family, your community, our country and the world.

• 1:48:48Jocko Willink?

  Thanks for grinding and grappling and striving and scratching and continuing day after day after day to get out there and get after it. So until next time, this is Echo and Jaco.

• 1:49:11Jocko Willink?

  Out.