OpenAI Scandal Explodes, China Sanctions Palmer Luckey, and the Oil War Heats Up | Tom Bilyeu Show

What's up, everybody? Today I’m hitting you with one of the wildest episodes we’ve ever done. We’re diving deep into the OpenAI scandal that’s been blowing up the internet and drawing in some of the top minds in math, tech, and artificial intelligence. In this episode, we cover everything from leaked breakthroughs on one of the world’s toughest math problems—Navier-Stokes—to how your intellectual property could be at risk every time you use AI. We’ll break down who really made the breakthrough: brilliant mathematician Tristan Buckmaster, or was it AI, or—most likely—the thrilling collision between human intuition and machine brute force? Plus we’ll look at why this debate matters for the future of ownership, innovation, and literally your business or your health. You’re going to walk away understanding how AI and human minds must work together, what the next wave of regulation could mean for YOU, and why this moment will redefine who gets credit and who gets paid. This is about way more than technology—this is about meaning, relevance, and how humanity adapts in the face of relentless acceleration. Strap in, because if you want to thrive in the age of AI, you can’t afford to miss what we unpack in this episode. If you get value out of conversations like this, drop us a review and help us reach more people driven to unleash their potential. I’m Tom Bilyeu, and welcome to Impact Theory. Sponsors: Tailor Brands: Check out Tailor Brands to get started with your business today: https://bit.ly/TailorBrandsSept Quince: Free shipping and 365-day returns at https://quince.com/impactpod ElevenLabs: Book your demo at https://elevenlabs.io/impactpod Incogni: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code IMPACT at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/impact Ketone IQ: Visit https://ketone.com/IMPACT for 30% OFF your subscription order. Horizon.ai: Go to https://horizon3.ai/IMPACTTHEORY and request your free NodeZero demo. No commitment required. Results in hours, not weeks. Butcherbox: Go to https://ButcherBox.com/IMPACT https://butcherbox.com/IMPACT to get $20 off your first box, plus your choice of free ribeye, new york strip, or filet mignon in every box for a year — with free shipping always Quo: ​​Try for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months at https://quo.com/impact ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: Want my help starting a business? Join me here inside Zero To Founder https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show Sign up for my AI Masterclass: AI Masterclass https://tombilyeu.com/ai-masterclass?utm_campaign=Live%20Masterclass&utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=evergreen FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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  Their dashboard tracks what comes next based on what your business actually needs. So EIN number, registered agent, licenses and permits, bookkeeping, business banking. I tell every founder the same thing. Just make it official. Click the link in the show notes to check out Tailor Brands and get started on your business today. This is a paid advertisement. Good morning, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Tom Villu Show Live. Today is going to be weird, man, because the OpenAI scandal is getting bigger by the minute. And the more that they tried to deny the accusations, the louder they get. We're going to dive into all of that, the conspiracy take, what's probably more in the middle, the real take.

• 1:27Speaker 00

  Then you've got Palmer Lucky and the Andro situation, which is getting crazy as China slaps him with sanctions. That's been going on for a while, but now Iran has supposedly captured some of his top secret IP. But of course, the US is claiming, no, no, no, man, that was just junk. We're not worried about that. The oil crisis is getting worse than people realize as the Houthis are getting downright insane as they escalate their attacks against Saudi Arabia and gear up basically to take on the whole region. The state of education in the most advanced countries in the world is way worse than people understand. The new data is absolutely shocking. We're going to take a look at that. Tucker Carlson opened his mouth and his brain fell out.

• 2:09Speaker 00

  And yet, the internet is divided on whether he's dumber than a box of rocks or he's identified another psyop. And the economic reset is getting more violent than even the most, even most investors, I think, have identified. We're going to go through the four or five things that are happening right now that most people are almost certainly missing and what it means for your money. All right, strap in, everybody. Today is gonna be a wild one. And along for the ride with us is Tailor Brands. Shout out to those guys. Love you guys so much. You're helping entrepreneurs start their businesses, which I have a tremendous amount of respect for. So if you guys have been considering launching a business, you're going to want to leverage Tailor Brands to get your LLC created.

• 2:53Speaker 00

  Take all of that busy work that you have to do at the beginning to get off the ground. Let them handle it. Let them make it easy. These guys are incredible. Check them out. There is a link in the description below. So whether you're trying to get an EIN number or whatever, click the link in the description to start with Tailor Brands today. They are rad. All right, everybody. The battle between humans and machines has already begun and it is way weirder and far more petty than people realize. It's pitting humans against AI, AI against humans, OpenAI against Anthropic. This is really becoming like high school, but with Terminator implications. This shit is getting so crazy. Okay, what's actually going on?

• 3:33Speaker 00

  Okay, there are, there's a potential breakthrough that's happened in mathematics. And human and humans and AI basically right now are arguing over who should get credit. We've now got people claiming that AI has copied their homework essentially. So for a year, NYU mathematician Tristan Buckmaster and Levant Alpoji, forgive me if that's mispronounced. He's a researcher at Anthropic. They, they've been working on this math problem. It's called Navier-Stokes. And one of the seven millennial prize mathematics problems that's been floating out there that nobody's been able to solve. These guys have been just banging away at this thing. There's a million dollars on the line from the Clay Institute.

• 4:17Speaker 00

  And the approach that these guys were taking was pretty obscure. Almost nobody else on earth was on it supposedly. And every draft of the project went into private codec sessions. And those codec sessions live on, you guessed it, OpenAI servers. Now, this is an accusation that's been leveled against OpenAI before. I think we've had similar accusations leveled against Anthropic, which is basically like, hold on a second. I'm doing some really cool stuff. I'm loading this into your system and I'm glad because your system is helping me along. The AI has been incredibly valuable here. However, I need to know that me working with your AI does not mean me giving all of my IP over to your AI,

• 5:02Speaker 00

  who's just going to train on everything that I'm doing and then hand that information to everybody else that wants to use it. Now, that is going to become the big debate. At what point do we get to basically say, okay, I'm putting a wall around this. This is what I'm doing. And yes, AI has been trained on everyone, everywhere, all across time. And I've gotten to take advantage of that by working with your AI. But now I don't want your AI to be able to learn from the things that we're doing in real time. This is actually a fascinating debate. I think that this is going to rage for a while because, and speaking from personal experience,

• 5:42Speaker 00

  there are insights that the AI will help you generate, but there's no doubt that it only got there because you pushed it. You gave it ideas to pursue. It helped you formulate the patterns and detect all of that, pull it into your research and come up with something that is truly unique to the combination of you and the AI. And now the question is, who owns that? This is going to be the debate between being able to host your own AI on your own servers and then being available to Anthropic or OpenAI or whoever. And so we talked about this back when Alex Karp, the CEO of, Drew? Oh, Palantir. Palantir, thank you.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  The CEO of Palantir, he was going viral because he was talking about you've got to put something in the middle. If you don't put something in the middle so that you can own this information, then engaging with AI is just leaking your IP to the rest of the world. And so, yeah, that's going to be, be a debate that we're certainly not going to get to, to the bottom of today. But it poses a very interesting question that gets to the heart of the anger and frustration that people feel about AI, learning from all humans and then just making that knowledge available to the profit of companies. That it's like, wait, did they have the right to learn from all of that? And so we all get right to that exposed nerve when it's our thing that is suddenly leaking out. So Alex Karp Solutions put something in the middle. Other people are saying, hold on, no way.

• 7:09Speaker 00

  You've got to like, house this thing yourself. It's got to be open source. You've got to allow me to put it behind my own servers, build my own weights so that not only am I bringing something unique to this scenario, but it's behind and protected in a way where I can leverage what the AI knows, but it's my weights. So it's an AI that thinks differently is probably the right way to parse that. So I've taught the AI to think differently and given it my injection of information. And therefore the outcomes that I get are truly proprietary to me. And that's the secret sauce. Okay, with all of that looming in the background, on August 15th,

• 7:50Speaker 00

  these guys that have been banging away on this math problem, but doing it in a way that's exposed to OpenAI servers. They crack some big thing. I'm going to give you words. I don't know what these words mean, but supposedly it is a blow up for the Euler equations. So basically they're trying to figure out fluid dynamics. I know just enough about this to be dangerous. So they're trying to figure out fluid dynamics. Fluid dynamics has huge implications in terms of real life. So for anybody that wonders why anybody would care about an obscure mathematics problem, this is actually really important. When you think about unlocking the entire modern era was us discovering computation of the universe.

• 8:34Speaker 00

  Okay, that's what mathematics is. We're not inventing mathematics. We are discovering mathematics that tell you how the universe computes itself, how it takes inputs and turns them into outputs, something that's utterly fascinating. But for now, just understand there are huge implications for how we interface with the universe itself when we discover how mathematics actually work. So if we can solve these fluid dynamics problems, then it would have implications for us being able to understand weather, blood flow in the human body, just like really big things, climate change and what that could mean, how that's going to play out in actual temperature movements. Like Southern California right now is experiencing all this change in humidity.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  If we can solve for some of these fluid dynamics, we'd have better insight into that. Okay. August 27th. They verified in lean. I don't know what that means, but there you have it. So they're having these series of breakthroughs. September 3rd, rumors start leaking that, you know, they've gotten far at this point, but that AI may have done the same thing. And that it's Buckmaster realizes, hold on a second. These guys are focusing on the same thing that we're focusing on. And he reads something in one of these rumors that they were using the same method that he's using. And so he said it was a bright red line or a bright red flag for him. And he emails OpenAI himself to try to head off whatever is going on.

• 10:00Speaker 00

  So obviously he doesn't want to miss out on getting the credit if he really was the one to solve this. And he certainly wants to know what's going on if they had access to his information. And so he starts asking these really pointed questions about what did you have access to? Did you train on me? And they answer some questions like very nakedly. We, we didn't do that. And then other questions, they seem to be very delayed in responding. And eventually they say, nah, we can't quite rule out that the AI didn't see their information and take a very abstracted, unidentifiable read on what they were doing. And it's possible, though unlikely, according to OpenAI, that we did get something off of this.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  So OpenAI, for that reason, is writing back and basically saying that, hey, we don't want to compete here. Three days later on Sunday, Sebastian Bubeck is on the phone telling Buckmaster that they have an internal model that just produced a hundred page proof that they believe that used the same unusual method. And so OpenAI wants to basically negotiate is my word, but I think that that's a pretty reasonable read on this. And they're offering options about how they can handle this. So they put forward two options and Buckmaster, who is obviously looking at these offers,

• 11:21Speaker 00

  says both of those offers involve dropping Alpoji, who happens to work at Anthropic. So now Buckmaster is going, hold on, you guys are trying to, in all of your negotiated settlements, you are trying to get rid of my co-author. And you're doing that purely because you guys just cannot tolerate that your competitor or someone who works for your competitor was involved in this. And so if you accept the conspiracy read on all of this, it goes something like, OpenAI reads the drafts, ran the method of what Buckmaster and Alpoji were doing, and runs that method through basically 10,000 agents for 88 hours,

• 12:02Speaker 00

  racking up like 10 million plus dollars in cost, trying to solve this problem. And then shipped it as like a Sputnik moment because essentially the IPO needs one. And so they've got to show that our new Astra model is so smart and so revolutionary that we're going to be solving novel math equations that are going to have big implications for the real world, which of course will make people go, see, I told you the AI hype was real, which to be honest, is exactly my read on the situation, even after all of this, but we'll get to that. So that's great for the IPO. Now, anybody paying attention to real life knows that we're talking about billions of dollars,

• 12:46Speaker 00

  tens of billions, hundred billions of dollars of value that can be created if people simply believe that OpenAI and Astra have shown that they can leapfrog Anthropic, be in pole position, and if they can build enough hype and then get to the IPO at sort of peak hype around this model, that then they've really got just a ton of money coming their way. So this isn't something where they don't have incentive. And so when you look for motive for why somebody might want to not see something, right? So they, it could just be them positioning themselves, I don't want to know about that part. I want to take a nice, clean reading of this.

• 13:28Speaker 00

  Or they just may be completely cynical and be trying to rob this guy of his work. Now, the details of this situation certainly are not settled yet. So I wouldn't grab on to any of these as if this is the actual fact. We're hitting pause for a moment, but there's plenty more ahead, so don't go anywhere. There's a reason Quince sells cashmere for $60, and it isn't the cashmere. It's real 100% Mongolian cashmere. It's the same stuff luxury labels charge a fortune for. Quince just works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middleman. So there's no need for a markup and no logo tax. The $60 goes to the actual sweater, not the fancy name on the tag.

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• 14:57Speaker 00

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• 17:06Speaker 00

  Thanks for sticking around. Let's get right back into the action. You have a viral post call that's calling the whole thing like a major conceptual scam. It's this mathematician and he's come out and said, this is all bullshit. And Sam Altman trying to take credit for his model using basically a brute force technique, which is, I think his quote was, "The compute bulldozer over abstract human intuition", which again is just this pitting of AI versus humans and which is better. This is all caught up in this.

• 17:42Speaker 00

  He wants people to understand that he thinks that OpenAI is being grotesque. I think the word he used was vulgar. And to claim that throwing that sort of just brute force hack compute at it, and then saying that you ended up solving this problem, which he says they did not, is just all bullshit. Now, OpenAI says that no researcher and no agent access user data, and that the effort started on September 1st before the email outreach from Buckmaster. But its own blog post adds one line, and this is what I was saying earlier. It can't rule out that de-identified data from their codex usage helped improve the model.

• 18:24Speaker 00

  And nobody had to break in, nobody needed to try to steal their work. It's just a question of whether, if you have the right to train on the codex sessions, if the person didn't opt out. So Bubeck's side is, he denies asking to cut Alpoji from his own paper. He says the conversation was about Buckmaster leading a rewrite of OpenAI's proof. And an Anthropic employee couldn't be inside of that for obvious reasons. Now, part of what OpenAI has said themselves was, look, we're not trying to cut him out. This was, he was resistant to being involved with this because we're competitors. Now, what's actually true, we will have to find out in the fullness of time. OpenAI is trying to back off of this.

• 19:09Speaker 00

  OpenAI is trying to let people know, look, man, like, we're not trying to take credit for anything. And upon further, like, further investigation of this, what we're realizing is we actually did take different approaches to this. Now, if you start looking at the math, because this, the post about this being vulgar on OpenAI's part from the mathematician, that viral post is sort of half right and half something else, in my estimation. The half that's right, OpenAI's proof adds external forcing term, so an outside push on the fluid. So instead of just trying to map out the way that fluid dynamics works, it's basically, you put a force on it, that causes it to terminate.

• 19:54Speaker 00

  And for the equation, basically, to be solvable. And the clay problem as written allows that. So the clay problem, as most of the field understands it, doesn't. This is the debate. And the proof stands on a decade of human work by other people, including Buckmaster and Alpoji. And credit right now is a pretty legitimate fight in terms of, is the AI trading on their work or not? Now, the other half of the post, that I think is getting into something else, which is a big human pushback against AI, says that the AI didn't understand fluid mechanics at all, and it simply navigated a search space. So it's going in and sort of using a brute force tactic.

• 20:40Speaker 00

  So the same argument that people made about chess engines, right? It's not that it's a good player, or the same with Go. It's not that these things are good, it just throws so much brute compute at the problem that it isn't doing the same things that humans do, and therefore, we ought not value it. Now, I take a totally different read on this. I don't care how we get to the answer, we just need to get to the answer. And so if you look at something like protein folding, I just need to know what the protein folds are, so that we can start building drugs off of them, we can start understanding how the mechanics of all this work, what the lock and key mechanism is of these proteins. And the same with whether it's fluid dynamics or any other thing in mathematics, is if

• 21:23Speaker 00

  what we do is come to understand how it works in sort of a Large Hadron Collider way, right? So if you guys know the Large Hadron Collider, basically, we're saying, we can't figure out how particles at high energy react when they collide, so we're just gonna collide them billions of times and look at all of the dispersion patterns. And then from that, we'll be able to see what's actually going on. So we did not intuit our way to an answer, we just built this gigantic machine that nonstop violence collides these particles into each other. So I, for one, am perfectly happy to see brute force used here, I just wanna get to the answer. But the problem is that right now, there is so much anxiety and resentment around AI

• 22:06Speaker 00

  that there's going to be this massive battle between, did the human do it, or did the AI do it? Now, what I hope we get to is ultimately, that doesn't really matter, as long as we're getting to the answer. And from my own experience, it, these problems are going to be solved in combination. So you're gonna have a human that has an intuition, that tells the AI to go down a novel path, but ultimately, it is the AI that goes down the novel path. Now, I have a feeling, in the fullness of time, we'll look at this and we'll figure out what actually happened. The sort of early or mid-game mumbles, if you will, from OpenAI is actually, if you start looking at the math that Buckmaster and co. were doing versus what our AI did, they're actually very different approaches.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  And so when people have time to really compare the two approaches, we'll find out if this really was just AI copying one thing, if it was AI that got an idea to pursue, that it ended up rejecting and then moving on to something else, or if this really was just the AI taking all of sort of previous human knowledge and then throwing an absolute tsunami of compute at the problem, thinking through all the possible permutations, in the way the Large Hadron Collider is just looking for just so much data that it can begin to find patterns that humans would otherwise not be able to find. Because the dataset is just so large, which is the thing that AI is uniquely good at. But until you understand, you have to parse this stuff through the lens of, I, as a human,

• 23:34Speaker 00

  do not wanna feel like I have lost to AI. And that, I think, is what a lot of people are feeling right now in this moment, that I just can't let it be AI that did the thing here, because that makes me, as a human, feel like I've already been surpassed. And that is the moment that we're gonna live in. All the stuff that you see coming out of the government in terms of how we have to stop development, that is partly a real fear and largely panic about becoming irrelevant as a human. So we'll see where this ultimately settles out, but this is really going viral, because I think it touches on that raw nerve. Because what you don't hear people saying is, oh my god, this is a, it certainly isn't a final solving of fluid dynamics by any stretch of the imagination, I don't think anybody's saying that.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  But it is a step forward. We have found a way to add a force to get these things to resolve as an equation, which previously, we had not done. So even if it's a baby step forward, it's a step forward, and the fact that people aren't excited about it, tells you a lot about Terminator fears.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  What's your gut telling you? Do you think that this is more, OpenAI did it, and this just happens to be a massive coincidence?

• 24:45Speaker 00

  It, I went on a roller coaster ride. In the beginning, I was like, this is a thousand percent, the AI going, thank you for adding things to the codex, I got an idea, I'm gonna go pursue it, I pursue it faster and better than you, but I really did start with your intuition. Because AI is trained on humans. And so whatever it is that AI thinks and believes is predicated on all the humans that have come before it. But the bad news for humans is, that's what humans do. So humans aren't operating in a vacuum, it's not like somebody is born today, reinvents mathematics, they look at everything that came before it. So I was like, yeah, this is the AI accessing everything that's in its codexes, learning

• 25:27Speaker 00

  from that, and drew, let me really make some enemies right now. It's what you want. You, you want the AI to learn from everything that's happening. Let me take it out of the field of mathematics and put it into the field of medicine. My cousin died, because, according to his father, my cousin died from cancer, had terminal cancer, and my, technically, this was my second cousin, so my cousin, his father, was just a crusader, after he passed away, to get HIPAA arranged in a way where all of the doctors could coordinate, that it was very easy for all of them to see all of his medical

• 26:12Speaker 00

  records with permission. But even with permission, it's so impossible, because everybody's trying to build all these firewalls, it's just hard to get everybody the different data from all the different tests and all that. So we felt like everybody was operating on like, a siloed piece of information, and they were sort of all chasing different paths, and they weren't coordinating. If you're in the field of medicine, and there's a breakthrough, do we want people to be able to isolate that? And if we do want people to be able to isolate that, the question is for how long? And so I think that there's gonna be a worthy debate around, don't, there, there is some level, not saying at all levels, because some of the stuff I'm doing on Kaizen, I'll be honest, for the first time in my life, I have the impulse not to tell people some

• 26:54Speaker 00

  of the paths that I'm pursuing, because I'm like, these will be replicated, and I just need like, a six-month lead, man. I don't need forever, like, I get it, people, as soon as I put it out into the world, people are gonna just go, oh, cool, thank you for that, you've distilled something, and now we're off and running. So to sustain a business model, you do need to be a little bit ahead of your competition. Okay. So, but at the same time, we, to justify what AI has done in terms of learning from all of humanity, I think that there is an obligation to continue to allow AI to learn from all of humanity, even if we say we don't want AI to get any smarter, we certainly want its level of intelligence now to be able to aggregate breakthroughs.

• 27:39Speaker 00

  And medicine becomes the easiest one to talk about, gaming, maybe I have a bit more of an argument, because it's just games, it's entertainment. But in medicine, man, do you really want one company to be like, hoarding breakthroughs, even though it's using AI to reach those breakthroughs? Do we say, and this does not feel like it's settled in my mind, so I wanna be very clear, I reserve the right to completely reverse course on this, but right now, my instinct is, man, there are just some things where the whole idea, the whole reason that I'm willing to say, yes, AI has been trained on every thought I've ever had that I put out on the internet, and I'm okay with that, because I get to access every thought everybody else has had. And the AI is, is distilling these gigantic datasets into usable insights. Okay.

• 28:24Speaker 00

  So my instinct at the beginning was, this was them just getting into the codex, then it started changing as the people are actually comparing the approaches, it does seem like they were quite different. And so now, it's like, that's when I started going, duh, this might be more just, I don't want AI to be better than a human. And you're gonna start feeling people's vibe shift from, oh my god, this is really helpful, to, I don't want the insight, I don't wanna live longer. You will hear people say that. I don't, I don't care about living longer, I don't want to, they won't be able to say, I don't wanna feel meaningless or useless, but that'll be the thing that's driving it. So that's in, I think we're in the middle of this.

• 29:09Speaker 00

  Nobody knows what the real outcome is yet in terms of what really happened. But I think that is the most important part of this debate right now, which is, okay, I didn't need it to be me. I want to know if it was me, and if it was me, I certainly want to get the credit. But if it wasn't me, I'm just glad somebody solved this problem. If we migrate to that, I'll feel good. If we stay at, but it wasn't a human and therefore I completely throw away the insight, that will be a very sad day.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. I think from the concept of AI, I'm equating it with the concept of the internet, then it's like, yeah, cool. Like, I would want AI to learn everything. I want AI to get better and be based off of the most breakthrough novel information. But when we get specifically to the LLMs, to Anthropic and to OpenAI, I do think this has a short term effect of hurting their businesses versus helping push the narrative. Because this is now the third example of, we said, we're going to bring our business into AI, trying to find, trying to work more productively, trying to find more breakthroughs. And then now Figma did it. They came out with Claude Design. Um, there was some biotech company that came out, then Anthropic has started down to design drugs.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  And now OpenAI is like, oh, you were working on us with that math, oh, yeah, we solved it too. Eventually, you're not going to be able to beat allegations and people are going to go open source, offline.

• 30:27Speaker 00

  Great.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Self-generated AI, and then that might then hurt the bottom lines of those top frontier companies.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  Literally, it doesn't matter. So this is where the free market needs to step in and say, um, yeah, I'm going to create a solution because you guys are being dirtbags. And that is completely unacceptable and it creates an opportunity. Right now, everybody's impulse is daddy, come and save me. And daddy is the government. And so everybody wants the government to come in and slap people around. There is a place for that. I want to be very clear. I am not, um, somebody who believes in no government. That, that to me is just a crazy stance. But at the same time, I would much rather see the open market solve these problems than just the government. The government should only solve problems that the open market won't. And when you see that, um, open source is already addressing this.

• 31:17Speaker 00

  Companies are already turning to open source so they can pull it inside, change the weights. And anybody paying attention is going to look at this and go, oh, I'm not going to be able to compete on compute. I'm going to have to be a distilled model that operates on smaller variables, but I can pull that into my own, uh, environment, tweak the, um, they're called weights. But if you think of it as the way it thinks, I'm going to tweak the way that it thinks. So now I actually have something proprietary. And if this is like me hiring and training employees that are very, very smart. And, but they're unique and only we have them. Now, the world can avail themselves of our outputs, but they cannot avail themselves of our inputs.

• 31:59Speaker 00

  And to me, that feels very fair. And so rather than, um, trying to get the government to come in and say, okay, like you guys have to do AI this way, which then will hurt the open source models. Uh, far better for them to make sure that the young upstart companies are able to get off the ground and aren't immediately crushed by these big companies.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, we shall see. We'll keep an eye on it. Um, a young upstart who's getting crushed by a big government is Palmer Lucky. And it's crazy. This is the first time I ever seen an individual get sanctioned like a country.

• 32:35Speaker 00

  It's happened before, but it, this is pretty wild, given what Palmer Lucky does.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  We're going to go down the rabbit hole, guys. Like, we're going to do kind of a Russian nested doll approach. But this is his tweet and we'll go down to some of his others. It is crazy that the People's Republic of China has sanctioned me as a separatist terrorist. But even crazier that so many American executives and influencers still show for them. How could anyone have predicted this outcome? They will cry as sanctioned inevitably hit them.

• 33:00Speaker 00

  Okay. So I think Palmer has worded this tweet very awkwardly in a way that people aren't going to understand what he means. So right now, we are back in the Cold War like we were between the US and Russia. And the world was asked to make a decision. Are you going to align with Russia and be a communist dictatorship? Or are you going to align with America and focus on freedom? Right now, the world is being asked to make the same decision between the US and China. Now, the bad news is we're being asked to make that decision at a time where America is standing on very shaky moral footing. But nonetheless, you are still choosing between a representative democracy setup and a, an authoritarian regime. Now, unfortunately, right now, people, a lot of people that I would not have expected, like Canada,

• 33:45Speaker 00

  uh, are deciding that they're going to side with China, with authoritarianism. I think it is a huge mistake that will be catastrophic. And that's what Palmer Lucky is trying to say. When he's saying, people going, you know, I never could have imagined this. Who could have seen this coming? Um, what he's saying is if you give an authoritarian dictatorship, the ability to control you because you've aligned yourself with them via trade and things like that, that you're going to find yourself being sanctioned to death. Now, the reason that this is a terrible time for the US to try to stand up and say, hey, come follow us, is we are actively sanctioning Iran to death. And secondary sanctions of anybody that's dealing with Iran.

• 34:27Speaker 00

  But you still really are choosing between, do you want to get behind representative democracies? Do you want to be aligned with sort of classic Europe, classic America? Or do you want to be aligned with authoritarianism? And so to me, it is absolutely crazy that for however bad what the US is doing right now, that people think they're better off aligning with China. That is absurd. And so for people to look at what Palmer is going through and not say, oh shit, like this guy is treating, um, a US military defense contractor as a terrorist is completely wild. And so if it's him now, it's going to be you next when they decide that something you're doing is not in their best interest.

• 35:10Speaker 00

  And if you then go, okay, cool, but America is doing exactly the same thing. Ask yourself, would you rather be going up against a nation that the supreme leader cannot be voted out of power, can do whatever he wants up to and including putting, uh, Uighur Muslims in concentration camps, uh, shooting people in the face. I will point everybody back to Tiananmen Square. Uh, or do I want to deal with the US where it's like, yes, there is a pendulum that swings back and forth between the left and that creates a certain amount of instability. But the instability is coming because they can vote people out of office. And if they think that they've got a bunch of assholes running the country, then they can get them out and get better policies in. So that one to me is just like, listen,

• 35:55Speaker 00

  I've made my feelings on what the US needs to do very clear. But in no way, I don't even think they are remotely close in terms of their risks. So, uh, China is just like a full-throated, what the fuck are you guys doing? You're going to pay an extraordinary price if you try to, uh, get involved with them. In fact, oh God, do we have the, I can't remember if it was from, uh, stuff we pulled today or if, I think it was from Monday. But there was that guy giving the speech. So there was a guy at, uh, an event in South Korea. And he was speaking and he was answering a question that was sort of tangentially related to China. In the middle of giving the answer, a guy runs up on stage and hands him a piece of paper and then just scurries offstage.

• 36:38Speaker 00

  And this guy was a Filipino legislator or something. Yes. Oh my God. So, uh, really fast, just, just play the beginning of this, just for a nice little taster of what it means to be under China's, uh, thumb.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  In international law, unfortunately, just like, is, uh, just like, uh, I have a note here. Uh, I think this is from China. Uh, you should have joined the, uh, and may I read it? China's position on the South China Sea arbitration is clear, consistent and firm. They have no position.

• 37:16Speaker 00

  Okay. He ends up going through the whole document and making comments about it. But what I want to point out is this is a guy live on stage who's being told what he can and cannot say by the Chinese government. Now, this is a guy that's merely trying to manage relationships with them right now. Is not somebody that is completely beholden to China, but because he's in the, um, their region, if you will, uh, their sphere of influence, they're trying to pressure him not to say the thing on, uh, live. Now, obviously, he was meant to read the document and just shut the fuck up. He was not meant to read it out loud and then push back on China. But he ends up at the end of that whole speech, basically saying, this is what you get. Like, if you allow a, an authoritarian dictator to have control, this is the kind of stuff that you get.

• 37:59Speaker 00

  They tell you what you can and cannot say. So, uh, yeah, it is wild to me that people are going, well, but they're more stable. Yes, because the guy can kill his opposition. That, that creates a certain level of, uh, stability. Until he gets killed himself, uh, yeah, you're going to get the direction of one person. And I'm not denying that there aren't efficiencies to that. But when it goes off the rails, it really goes off the rails. So I would highly encourage everybody to heed Palmer Lucky's warning regarding China that when they start treating, treating an entrepreneur who is building weapons

• 38:40Speaker 00

  that are expressly, because he has said this out loud, expressly designed to protect the US from China. And they're categorizing him as a terrorist and therefore putting sanctions on him. Uh, that you're now playing a very different game. You don't see the US going after people that are making things to help China's defense industry or anybody else's defense industry, for that matter, with the exception, of course. Of Iran. So a country we're actively at war with and hopefully people can understand that. So yeah, wild.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  To take it one step further, the, he tweeted, this is the second tweet, the reason why Russia, China sanctioned me, the ultimate 600 mil hits Murray time targets in Taiwan with 100% accuracy. So he's actively building weapons that Taiwan can use to defend themselves. And that's why they labored him a separatist terrorist because he's trying to quote unquote, break apart the one China policy.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. So once again, I will point people to the reality that Taiwan is a sovereign, independent nation that China refuses to accept as a sovereign, independent nation, but Taiwanese would be very surprised by that. So if you guys don't know the history, they were in the middle of a civil war and the CCP won that civil war and the people that they were fighting against fled into the ocean and landed on a little island that we now call Taiwan. So this is not a group of people that see themselves as a part of China. So this is very much like Russia being territorially acquisitive of Ukraine. Ukraine is like, hey, we are a sovereign nation. You don't get to come in here simply

• 40:14Speaker 00

  because you think we never should have broken away from you. We did break away from you. So, and they broke away from them a very long time ago. So that's where it's like, no, no, no. We have been strategically ambiguous in terms of what the position is between the two countries because it served our best interests. Now it aggressively does not serve our best interests to let them take Taiwan. So of course, we're going to put defenses in place to make sure that that is a very bad bit of calculus for the Chinese. You don't want, as an American, as a Westerner, you don't want China to take Taiwan because now they really have a chokehold on our entire modern way of life.

• 40:57Speaker 00

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• 42:04Speaker 00

  Thanks for sticking around. Let's get right back into the action.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Keeping up in war news, the Iran war is starting to very much heat up. The IRGC announced it carried out the single largest attack in the Strait of Hormuz during of the war period, striking 10 vessels in retaliation for tonight's US airstrikes on five Iranian oil tankers. The IRGC says it struck eight oil tankers attempting to pass through the strait and two US destroyers in aid earlier tonight, inflicting significant damage. The US struck three tankers on September 5th. Iran responded with six. The US struck five tonight, and now Iran responds with 10. Two-for-one is now the pattern.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  All right. Let's just call a spade a spade. The war in Iran is threatening to spiral out of control again with the US sinking five Iranian oil tankers and Iran launching 20 ballistic missiles in retaliation. Now, here's how the party started. Over two days, the IRGC fired ballistic missiles at a US warship, twice. Both missed, but that's gonna piss some people off. Tuesday, CENTCOM was like, all right, if you guys want to play, then the empire's gonna strike back. Four IRGC crude carriers in the Gulf of Oman, one more off Karg Island, the terminal that moved 90% of Iran's oil before the war, they're starting to strike at. Crews were told to abandon ship. You've got CENTCOM releasing

• 43:25Speaker 00

  videos of them. You've got the Riesgo going under. So the US is going to use disproportionate response. They are going to escalate. You've got eight Iranian tankers destroyed in four days, three on September 5th, five last night. Marco Rubio has basically summed up this entire exchange, saying, every time Iran shoots at a US ship, Iran loses tankers. And we're just gonna keep that party rolling. Now, Iran isn't going to take any of this sitting down. This is why I say this runs the risk of spiraling back to, in fact, we're at the height of the war at this point. So I think that that was more, Iran did more

• 44:07Speaker 00

  last night in attempted damage than they have done since the beginning of the war, or at least as much. So obviously, they're big mad. So they're gonna start slotting a ton of missiles into launchers and smashing that big red button as fast as they can. And so as they launch their 20 ballistic missiles, they're launched at a US base in Jordan that actually houses troops. Now thankfully, according to Jordan, it intercepted 18 of the 20, and then the other two just landed in empty desert. There were no casualties reported. But how much of what we know is actually going on is a big question. The IRGC is claiming that it destroyed hangars full of US fighter jets and hit two US destroyers

• 44:48Speaker 00

  and eight tankers. The Pentagon is obviously saying that that's totally bullshit. But the question is, is there some truth? Did they hit anything? Or is this literally the US is just posting wins and the IRGC is getting a whole bunch of goose eggs? We're gonna need to see there for a while now being claims that the US isn't reporting all of the damage that's been done. I don't think anybody should be too surprised. The Pentagon is not exactly a bastion of truth. But as far as we can tell, as of right now, no American warships have been struck. But the claim that we're always asked to believe is that the IRGC is completely out of missiles, out of defenses. But the reality, obviously,

• 45:29Speaker 00

  is that they have some. And so now the question becomes, are they able to get us to further deplete our munitions? Now, Trump keeps saying that, hey, we're just fine. But the back and forth is, yes, you probably have enough to fight Iran, but you've got China over here doing their thing. You've got Europe and Russia escalating, and you're potentially going to need munitions for those two fights. And if Iran can keep baiting you into firing off more rockets, that you're not going to have enough, should something pop off in one of those other two areas. Both of those areas are watching what we're doing very closely. Now, there are negotiations being done between the US and Russia to try to

• 46:11Speaker 00

  find an off-ramp in the war in Ukraine. So obviously, that would be very helpful. But don't think that even if Russia takes that off-ramp, that Russia's just like, yeah, cool, we're gonna chill. They're gonna be still extraordinarily sensitive to two things. One, reuniting the USSR, which Putin has been very clear about as part of the legacy that he wants to leave. And then, two, the fact that there's still drama brewing between the EU and Russia. So even if Russia right now backs off of Ukraine to settle that, to begin building their stockpiles, what is Germany, for instance, going to do? Is Germany gonna continue moving on the offensive? Germany's economy is in dire straits. Germany should

• 46:51Speaker 00

  rightfully be feeling pretty uneasy about their position on the globe. They used to be known as the best engineers in the world. It really meant something to say that something was German-made, German-engineered, and that just isn't true anymore. And now, it's, if you want to find the best engineers in the world, you're gonna go to China, man. And our man, Tim Cook, over at Apple, basically said that. He was like, I don't know where everybody gets that you go to China for cheap labor. He's like, I don't go to China for cheap labor. I go to China for some of the best engineering on planet Earth. Maybe back in the 80s and 90s, they were the place that you went to for cheap labor. But we've

• 47:32Speaker 00

  had an entire, what, two generations of Chinese workers raised, knowing all of the US's best secrets, becoming the place that the entire world is sending everything to, to get manufactured. That's gonna create some of the greatest manufacturing know-how on planet Earth, because everybody was sending for decades their best engineers to get everything done more cheaply. But that part of this curve has now largely played out, and China's just where you go, full stop, to get things manufactured, because the entire world, through a very stupid policy of globalism, sent everything. So the US has got to be thoughtful about the fact that we are still heading towards a collision with China, that Russia may lick

• 48:17Speaker 00

  its wounds, but you have a declining Russia going up against a declining Germany, which tells you, we talked about this before, that a country is at its most dangerous when it's, it sees itself as having a declining advantage. And so if you're Germany and you see that your economy is declining, and you have a chance to get on war footing as a way to re-energize your people, and Russia calling that out, saying, these motherfuckers want to fight. So now, the US, if they're paying attention, they're shooting all of their missiles to try to stop what Iran is doing. Iran is in communication with China and Russia, and... They're not saying they're doing it at the behest of these guys, but you can imagine, follow the incentive structure.

• 49:02Speaker 00

  China wants to see the US depleted. Russia wants to see the US depleted. And so now, as we retaliate, we put ourselves in a position where there's conflict more likely between China taking Taiwan and thus being willing to stand up to the US. Russia, at the best case scenario, backing off of Ukraine is a way to lick their wounds and get ready for a skirmish with a cornered Europe, whose economy is just absolutely flagging. I would imagine the psychology in Germany is not great. And so you've got just so much global instability. We're going to talk about this later today. On top of all of that,

• 49:45Speaker 00

  all the people making money right now are getting more and more paranoid because the sure bet of owning US debt is no longer the sure bet. So it's like, we have to be very careful as we talk through all of this to remain optimistic, to understand what the path forward is as an individual and as a nation. But at the same time, we've got to be honest about what the threats are. And that is what I just laid out. The threat landscape is rough.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  It seems like we keep coming back to China, no matter what story we go.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  Bro, they are gigantic and a wounded animal. So you're in a position where you have the two largest economies in the world, the US and China. They're both in a declining state and they both feel that they have this narrow window of opportunity and they're both going to press it. And so you've got China just absolutely trying to divorce itself from the US, goldify everything, deal with your housing crisis and make sure that you are the future of technology. So get a chokehold on everything that you can. You've got the US realizing, okay, our days as a global empire are over, but we're going to maximize our hemisphere.

• 50:53Speaker 00

  Venezuela has more oil than everybody. So now you've got OPEC starting to shatter. The US going, we've got to do something because we know everybody is, it's a slow motion train wreck away from the US dollar. So we're not going to have that privilege. We're going to try to salvage it with crypto and migrate the debt need over to that. But that's a question mark right now. We don't know that that's going to work. And so we're essentially trying to build a new alliance here in the US or in the Western Hemisphere to empower ourselves. And so you've got two wounded animals like closing ranks,

• 51:38Speaker 00

  trying to build up their regional strength. And they're trying to do it. They're trying to do it to be strong. But what they're going to find is they're fighting over the allegiance of the other players in the world. Whenever you see something play out, ask, has this happened before? And the answer is yes, this is US v Russia. And so we roughly understand how these things go. And the US and China will start spying on each other at an increased rate. They will start trying to one up each other in every way that they can. And the threat of kinetic violence will always sit in the background. And so a lot of this is going to be, just like with the economy, what is the thing that pops that bubble? So we've got tensions brewing,

• 52:23Speaker 00

  but it isn't spilling into hot conflict yet. But what would be that one thing? If China is really like, we have to move on Taiwan by 2027 for our survival. Because remember, the real fight is AI. Anybody paying attention knows, if you win AI, you win. As the mathematicians are finding out today, dude, AI is so smart. Drew, AI is so smart. And I don't know if people just aren't using it, if they're so caught up in their like, I'm afraid of becoming irrelevant. But if I'm China and I'm realizing how smart AI is and I realize that the US currently has an advantage over me

• 53:07Speaker 00

  and I say, why does the US have an advantage over me? And the answer is chips. I do two things. I start building chips in my home country, which they're doing. And I go, Taiwan's the current home. And so it's already on my books to get them by 27. The US is fucking up. They're going to be depleted. They're not going to be able to do this. I'm going to make a move on Taiwan. Who's the one kid that might fuck me up? This Palmer Lucky guy in his dumbass Hawaiian shirts. Let's fucking sanction him. And honestly, this is me, this is me, this is, I don't have any information on China. But boy, if he slipped and fell, huh, I'd be okay with that. And if I'm the one that has to lay the banana peel, so be it. It's, all of this stuff is so interconnected that it gets wild.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'd find that interesting because I feel like China is the farmer's market of the world. They have tables, they sell a bunch of like random things. You don't know what you're going to get when you get there, but you could browse around. They sell a little bit of this, a little bit of this. They have their hand in every industry. So them neutering America is pretty much them neutering their number one customer. Because all of our manufacturing runs through China. We're paying them arm and leg in 18 different industries, like I said. So the advantage of taking us out, is it an ego thing? Is it a, they'll be the number one government? Like what is China's angle that's driving it? They want everybody to be communism? What do you think?

• 54:35Speaker 00

  I don't think they care if people are communists or not. They just want people to do what they tell them to do. In the same way that the US wants people to do what we tell them to do. I'm not saying there's a world in which people don't have an overlord. I'm just saying, what kind of overlord do you want? One where people can be voted out of office? Or one where people can shoot the people in the face and they don't get a vote? You're going to have an overlord. The globe is going to have some number of powers that are either at each other. And historically, that leads to war because somebody is going to be top dog. Or they're going to have one overlord that like post-World War II oversees everything. And when our largest period of prosperity and peace came

• 55:20Speaker 00

  and we had a single overlord. So the question is, what are people going to vote for? But to answer your direct question, China just wants to, call it debt enslave, infrastructure enslave everybody. So that there's no way to get around them. In the same way that digital money would be super useful. In the same way that the US uses the global monetary system to enslave everybody. China wants to do it through any and all means possible. They want to become the world's reserve currency. I still think they're going to make a play to back the yuan with gold. I want to be very clear, that is not a universally held position that is highly contested. I think a lot of people think I'm crazy. But I keep watching the moves they're making. They're trying to divorce themselves from the US dollar.

• 56:05Speaker 00

  They're building enough gold reserves that they could conceivably back it with gold. We'll see. But anyway, they're freeing themselves of all US control. And then what they want is the US to be subservient and wealthy enough to buy stuff. But ultimately, everything comes down to comparative advantage. So they don't necessarily need anything more than to be richer than America. They don't need America to be impoverished. That isn't their goal. But they want, is a better word. They want the US and everyone to be subservient.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  We'll keep monitoring. You said something earlier about how energy infrastructure around the world is kind of going crazy. The Houthis are making sure it gets even crazier. Operating out of Yemen, they just did an attack in the Jazran Armakol fields in Saudi Arabia. So they are also mobilizing throughout Yemen to do additional strikes. So it seems like another proxy network is moving and attacking a GCC country from a different side.

• 57:08Speaker 00

  What's going, so this is Iran. So people need to understand the Houthis are a militant wing of Iran. So Iran is trying to be the hegemon in the Gulf region. China's trying to be a global hegemon. US is trying to be a global hegemon. They'll both settle for regional hegemony. But you've now potentially got the China having control. If Iran wins, China having influence over its near sphere of influence plus influence over the Middle East. Then you've got the US having its sphere of influence. And oil, because it remains the thing that undergirds everything. Energy undergirds everything, okay?

• 57:53Speaker 00

  For now. And well, it will always, but the question is, how much can we get from the sun? Setting that aside, right now, oil is still by far the way that the world gets its energy. So whoever has energy to export is going to be the focus of attention. Iran, for a very long time, for two reasons, has wanted to control the region. One, it's economically a just massive superpower and you can make your country extraordinarily wealthy. The second is they're a theocratic regime. So they believe God has told them to do the things they are doing. That throws a monkey wrench in things that is dizzying. But nonetheless, so as you see them going after Saudi Arabia,

• 58:35Speaker 00

  going after several of the countries, including the UAE in the region, what you see is somebody trying to take control of that region. This is a big part of why Israel remains a problem. I think the religious element is a thousand times bigger than it being the unsinkable aircraft carrier for the US. We can debate that till the cows come home. That's just my take on the situation. But nonetheless, they're trying to get a control of what's going on there. So you're going to continue seeing these attacks until Iran is actually broken. Now, it's going to be debated until the end of time whether the US should have gotten involved in Iran. But it's very easy to understand why the US wanted to get involved in Iran. So remember, when this all started,

• 59:20Speaker 00

  the US was trying to make sure that we were going to be able to grow our way out from under the debt. To do that, we needed to find an extraordinary amount of capital to apply towards AI, which is the only bet that anybody has any faith on right now. And the largest capital aggregators were effectively people in the GCC nations turning oil money into technological investment dollars. Made all the sense in the world. So the US was like, hey, guys, we got you. Abraham Accords, we're going to try to unite all of this thing under the economy, which is the right play, by the way. And that is a hill that I will certainly fight on, whether I'll die on it or not, I'm always open to being wrong.

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  But that to me is, understanding what's going on there is just an absolutely critical part of this. So you go in, you've got Iran wants to control the oil so that they can run their theocratic regime, take over, be economically strong and get everybody under their caliphate, essentially.

• 1:00:22Speaker 00

  Then you've got, obviously, the US needing that to make the AI play happen. All under the guise of, we can't let them become a nuclear nation, which, by the way, is a good move. It is very smart. It's probably not the real motivating factor, which is why they were so discombobulated with getting people to understand why they made the attack on Iran. But now that we've made the attack, you're actually seeing what's going on, which is Iran shooting at not just US bases, but just blowing up the energy infrastructure of the other nations there to weaken them so that they can run the board. If you don't map it that way, and you see them just as like, we're angry because the US attacked us, and so we're gonna lash out at anybody that we think helped them, it's

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  gonna be far more confusing than if you go, ah, wait a second, this is Iran still saying, we're willing to be more militaristic than the rest of you, and so we're going to attack everybody to get you guys all to back off the US, get the US out, and now we can run the table, because we're the biggest economy, certainly, if we can get alignment with Russia and China, we're gonna be the biggest, most thriving economy here, and we're the most militaristic, we're the strongest, I think they're the biggest by numbers, and so we're gonna have this region. And then everything begins to slot into place about all the instability, everybody making a grab for the energy which undergirds everything, for all the reasons I just laid out.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, they are the biggest by population.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  So you said you want, you think this is a religious push for Iran to have everybody in the GCC, one nation under Islam type thing?

• 1:02:01Speaker 00

  Everyone in the world.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  Everyone in the world.

• 1:02:03Speaker 00

  The world.

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 1:02:04Speaker 00

  The world.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 1:02:06Speaker 00

  So I don't know if people are still gonna waste energy trying to deny that, but yes, the idea is a global caliphate.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  Copy. Okay, we gotta talk about these education scores around the world. They are not looking good. So these are two charts from today, PISA test results, and it shows that school tests continue to collapse internationally, underscoring how this is no longer a COVID effect, but a sustained decline.

• 1:02:32Speaker 00

  We're talking about the OECD nations, man. These are the most developed countries in the world. US, Canada, Europe, I think Australia's in there. It's like, these are the countries that you think of as like, oh, we're good. We're not Sub-Saharan Africa struggling with insane corruption and people not getting educated. We're the OECD.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Chesney, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, United Kingdom, and the United States.

• 1:03:19Speaker 00

  That's who's falling off a cliff.

• 1:03:22Speaker 00

  That, that is who's falling off a cliff, man. So, yeah, don't lose sight of what is happening. And when you look at the chart, you see it, like, call it 2018, 2019, is when we take a nosedive, especially in mathematics and reading. Science has been a little more resilient, but dude, that is a cliff. That's not like a slow reduction. That is a cliff. It's so wild.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  It's one thing to say, like, you know, it's the US, they got indoctrinated in the system, but when it's that many countries across the board, do you think that this is something, I don't wanna say systemic, but?

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  It's systemic. This is, everything, everything is downstream of culture. What do you believe about yourself? And we have been prosperous for so long, we have forgotten that everybody has to be turned into an intellectual soldier. Like, people have got to be taught from the youngest of age that you have a lot of potential, but it's untapped, it's undeveloped. You're gonna have to find a way to develop your potential and turn it into actual usable skillset. And we've stopped doing that. So in education, we're not looking at outcomes in terms of, are we outputting the, the best educated, the most capable students that the world has ever seen? We don't do that. What we do is we say, we feel very bad for the kids that are getting left behind, because

• 1:04:39Speaker 00

  unfortunately, intellect is not the same across all kids, and there are legitimate social factors that go in that can also cause somebody to get left behind. And our response to that was full retard. Instead of going, okay, we've gotta find the best teachers, we've gotta train the life out of them, we've gotta hold them to an insanely high standard, we've gotta make sure that we're judging them by the efficacy of what outcomes they get from their students. And if they're not good, and their students aren't, like, really performing well, as an individual teacher, man, they're going to get fired, and they're going to get replaced with somebody that can deliver results, and we're gonna be ruthless about that.

• 1:05:21Speaker 00

  And we're going to look at education as an element of national security, and because we've abdicated our responsibility to our children, we're now reaping the results, which is dumber kids. That, that is wild. It's so crazy to me that we're just accepting that, like, IQ is dropping. Now, IQ is a hotly contested thing, but let me assure you, some people are smarter than others, and you can get things that are directionally accurate in terms of that. So the fact that we're letting all this fall off a cliff, and not recognizing that leading only with empathy, I love empathy, empathy's amazing, but alas, it cannot be the thing that guides all of our decisions. And we're going up against China.

• 1:06:05Speaker 00

  And I really wanna know, by the way, if, I feel like sometimes I say something that requires a deeper explanation, but I need to know if that's true, or if everybody is in the chat just clapping along, but we're going up against China. China treats education like it's a bootcamp, like I am training intellectual soldiers, like I was saying.

• 1:06:26Speaker 00

  When you empathize your kids into retardation, and you go up against somebody who, like, militarizes the acquisition of skillset, it is not going to end well for you. And there was this really famous, back in my mindset days, there was this really famous speech that this guy gives, and I'm gonna paraphrase it, but it goes, "Whenever somebody tells me that I need to take days off, I remind them that right now there is somebody that wants to compete against me, and they're training while I rest. And every time I rest, they get a little bit stronger than I get, and I grow a little bit weaker. And when the two of us meet in head-to-head competition, they will win." Truer words have never been spoken.

• 1:07:11Speaker 00

  I understand people don't want that to be true, and I understand that we're living in a time where things have been so good for so long, that people just wanna coast. I get, trust me, I get it. As somebody who never needs to work again, I understand the pull to coasting. But the reason I keep working is because I understand the mental atrophy, the lack of meaning and purpose that awaits you on the other side of deciding to coast. You've got to keep going, man. You've gotta keep pushing yourself, you've gotta want to be better, and you've gotta hold people accountable. And instead, we have teachers' unions that fucking own the place, teachers get pampered, aren't delivering shit for results, and still get seal clapped for, still get people saying, we gotta pay these teachers more, we've thrown so much money at this, only to see

• 1:07:56Speaker 00

  the results go down, or at least hold flat, as we continue to pay them more. Paying bad teachers more money is not the answer. Offering more money for the most gangster impressive teachers on planet Earth as a way to attract them, that might work, that I would be all for testing. But somebody who's giving you shit results, and you go in and reward them with more money, is the definition of stupidity. I don't know what people are thinking, I know what people are thinking. It's so empathetic, and bitter, and fucking wanting to just tear things down, that they cannot see that the people they are destroying are their own kids, man.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  There was one exception to the PSI test scores, and that was England. Compared to the other three UK nations, as well as the OECD in general, England has done the best job of maintaining that. It didn't have as drastic of a drop that a lot of it-

• 1:08:47Speaker 00

  That we need to look at what they're doing. We need to look at what they're doing. We also need to look at the new PISA results from your boy in El Salvador, Bukely. Now, Bukely was a pilot program, there's like 120 schools or something like that in it, and the results that he's getting out of the pilot program are astonishing, and we should all be auditing that, figuring out what they're doing. We also have schools here, charter schools, that are delivering insane results. We should be looking at what they're doing. So the answers are there for anybody who wants to look, but we have been captured by the unions, just that simple. Captured by the unions in freakish empathy.

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  I don't know, you don't think that this is something that this administration could handle, since they tackled all the other culture war BS that we've been?

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  Indented with?

• 1:09:37Speaker 00

  I will say that right now, this administration has shown that they are focused on other things. So, uh, obviously, the war in Iran is a gigantic distraction. Uh, we are just deficit spending ourselves into oblivion. Um, understanding that they are far, they, they have a very big problem. I don't know that they're handling it well yet, but they have a very big problem that they must address, which is the debt. We're going to be talking about that later. Um, so either through incompetence or distraction, they aren't addressing this. So, um, either one, it doesn't matter why, it just matters they're not getting it done.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, uh, shout out to Lyndon McMahon. Uh, she was able to go to WWE. Let's see what she does for education in America.

• 1:10:21Speaker 00

  I mean, fingers crossed. Has anybody heard, like, I haven't heard much out of it. So I am operating under the assumption right now that little to nothing effective has been done. They, I think, have cut some of the budgets. That's definitely good. Uh, but you've got to get results. And cutting budgets and getting no results is bad or worse. Cutting budgets and getting worse results.

• 1:10:42Speaker 00

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  And they defended, um, schools that boycott Israel.

• 1:10:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, that whole thing is, um, there are nuances there, but to me, that one is just, if you're pro Israel right now and you're doing something like that, dude, it's so dumb. It's so dumb. You have to understand you're up against psychology. I won't take us down that spiral right now, but man.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  Um, and I was heartbroken to find out, because I love LG brands. Um, South Korea's finest technology. I used to love LG TVs. I used to cat for LG TVs, but researchers have spent 500 hours and $70,000 and found LG TVs logging plain text transcripts in standby.

• 1:11:20Speaker 00

  Meaning they're listening and recording what you're saying, turning it into a transcript, and then selling it to the ad firms.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  Mapping every device in the house and feeding it to LG's ad arm. Unplug the internet and it saves the files until you plug back in. LG says its TV don't record ambient conversations. The evidence begs a different.

• 1:11:36Speaker 00

  They all say that. It's so fucking dumb. Everything you own is recording you all the time. If you've ever, like, gotten into a conversation about something really obscure and then, hey, look at that, I'm getting an Amazon recommendation for it. It's something, somewhere is recording you. I hadn't talked about, um, Jaco Willink in years. And then I mentioned him to my wife in passing and then immediately got an ad for his book on Amazon. I was like, fuck you. Like, you're gonna ask me to believe that that was coincidence? Get the fuck out. So I assume at this point, despite the fact that everyone is telling you that they're not recording you, they are recording you all the time, always and forever, uh, selling it to ads. It is grotesque. This is one where that should just be illegal. Period.

• 1:12:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, agreed. It's, it's kind of like a heartbreaker, but it also reminds me of the Alexa, uh, Google Voice and all those other things.

• 1:12:24Speaker 00

  Recording all the time.

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're not listening. Hey Siri, yes, you called? So if you weren't listening, how'd you hear that?

• 1:12:29Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:30Speaker 00

  No, it's crazy. And, uh, that one for sure, for sure should be illegal. Uh, do not pass go, do not collect $200, just get a fine. A massive, massive fine every time they do it. The, the companies have to be scared straight on that one, or they're just gonna keep doing it.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  Um, all right. And Tucker Carlson and Jeff Elfson were talking about mathematics on his show, and it was a very interesting take.

• 1:12:56Speaker 03

  Why does algebra put letters into numbers?

• 1:13:00Speaker 04

  I think just to fuck with you.

• 1:13:02Speaker 00

  That answer tells me I can ignore every fucking word out of your mouth. So, uh, if this were a bit and they were joking, okay, fine. Again, mathematics is the universe, uh, computing itself. And so if you don't understand math and how to derive the answers, you're gonna be in a bad way. And I remember, so I cheated in math all through high school, didn't take it in college, only to discover as an entrepreneur, you're doing math all the time. Uh, and then, Jesus, forget it. If you get into game development, yesterday, yesterday, yesterday, Drew, I'll aim this at you because you know me and you walk by me and sometimes I bet you think I'm playing around because I have cartoons on my screen and shit like that. Yesterday, I was trying to define the angle of the triangle that deals with the or distribution

• 1:13:47Speaker 00

  inside of Kaizen. And I was like, holy fuck, I am doing geometry, uh, geometric math, trying to get to where should the half number be, uh, of the iron distribution inside of Kaizen? And I was like, I am so mad that I cheated in high school math because no one could explain to me when I was going to use it, because it was just teachers. They're like, well, the only time I use math is to teach my kids. And so they can't tell you, basically, math is gonna touch virtually everything in your life, the higher you reach. And, uh, music, all mathematics. Um, so it's not like it's just science or whatever. Like, you're gonna find it in so many places, but entrepreneurship is just math, up, down, left, right, center, BA, select, start. It's fucking all the time.

• 1:14:30Speaker 00

  So, uh, you use a variable, a, a letter, because you don't know the variable. You're trying to run a math equation where when it's essentially run backwards, this is a layman trying to, uh, explain something that he only understands intuitively. But when you're trying to figure something out backwards by saying, okay, I know what this part is, and that must tell me this thing here because of the, what, um, communicative properties or whatever the fuck. See, this is what happens when somebody cheats. But it's like, intuitively, I understand. If I have this, the, the equals, if I know what it equals, then it can tell me what this variable had to have been for that to be true. And so you put a fucking variable to say, I know this part, but I don't know this part. And when X equals whatever, you can figure out what it is.

• 1:15:12Speaker 00

  Uh, and so that is a layperson giving the most awkward explanation of algebra, which is what they're debating here, but this is full retard. But you gotta hear it for yourself. So let's, let's keep playing.

• 1:15:22Speaker 03

  So you deal with math in your job every day. Well, you've already, I think, demonstrated your grasp of math is, is high.

• 1:15:31Speaker 00

  Very, I mean. Okay, hold on. At least he's being honest. Cause dude, you wanna talk about, somebody will check you so hard in the comments because you're about to go on a full retard, uh, like tirade. So I will give him credit for that, where he's basically saying, I know how to use arithmetic to do basic bit shit. But, uh, this, this one is wild to me. I do not know what has happened to Tucker Carlson. I never paid much attention to him, and in fairness, I don't pay a lot of attention to him now, but the fact that this guy could output this clip is crazy. But keep going, because it gets even more interesting.

• 1:16:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

• 1:16:10Speaker 03

  Well, if you can build a wood-fired kiln.

• 1:16:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:14Speaker 03

  You understand math.

• 1:16:16Speaker 00

  Do you?

• 1:16:16Speaker 03

  But what?

• 1:16:17Speaker 00

  Do you? Like, that's like me saying, I understand math because I can figure out or distribution. I don't understand math. That shit is complicated. When you talk to somebody that actually understands math, it gets so crazy, so fast, and so impressive. Like, okay, um, as a game developer, I'm doing sort of the basic bit shit or distribution. But then I'll talk to the developer developers and the kinds of equations that they have to write to, like, get a sword to swing the way that you want it to swing is wild. And it becomes, you realize that, like, okay, let's say that you're developing a grenade. And so you throw a grenade in the game. And then you think, well, just fucking throw the grenade. I played a thousand games with grenades, just throw the grenade, it does damage.

• 1:17:00Speaker 00

  And then the developer's gonna come back and they're gonna be like, what do you want the falloff radius of the damage to be? It's like, what do you mean the falloff radius? Okay, well, if I'm 10 blocks from where the grenade lands, how much damage should I take? Oh yeah, it's a good question. Okay, this much. And then they go, what if there's an object between you and that? Do you want to subdivide the player so that they take, like, if something's blocking their feet but not their head, do you deduct some damage because the feet were safe? Or is it, no, we're targeting only the head? And then what if the different object between it is of different materials? Do different material? And now you start getting into insanely complicated algorithms that determine, uh, that. And then you find out that some of those equations run efficiently on a computer and some do not. Dude, it's wild.

• 1:17:43Speaker 00

  So that's a level of math. I, I'm like, there's so many variables in that, I can't even begin to tell you. This is where, um, people mistake that I don't understand the problem well enough to even know the variables that I don't understand. And then putting it forward as if, because I don't even know those things exist, that this must be basic and it's like some big psyop. Like, really, the, the craziest thing about this whole exchange is that Tucker asked that question. Why do put, why do people put variables in math? That's the, we've already hit peak absurdity that he would ask that. Now, if he had said, I don't understand why people put variables in math, I'd like to get more powerful, please explain to me why people use variables and how I can deploy that in my life.

• 1:18:26Speaker 00

  And then this guy exposes himself as a retard, like I would, by saying, I don't fucking know. And so, uh, but then at least you're saying, I don't know. I bet somebody does know. I bet a lot of the things in my life are the result of somebody knowing a lot of complicated math. But instead, we're gonna get to, uh, goy slaves in a minute. It's, the, the fun part is still coming. Uh, but yeah, this is so crazy.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  Somebody in chat said we should ask Terrence Howard. Terrence Howard will get to the bottom of it.

• 1:18:52Speaker 00

  That's hilarious. Nice troll. Uh, yeah, that probably not the right guy.

• 1:18:57Speaker 03

  Add letters to numbers in the process of doing.

• 1:19:00Speaker 04

  That's the weirdest thing. Nowhere did I find any letters in my math to calculate the size and structural integrity of a cantenary arch.

• 1:19:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I also don't want you building anything bigger than a small kiln. I'll just say that. Don't build my bridges.

• 1:19:15Speaker 04

  Cause everybody, every math teacher was always like, you need to know some algebra. I've yet to encounter a single person in my life that uses algebra.

• 1:19:23Speaker 00

  You have not communicated with a lot of people then, because, bro.

• 1:19:26Speaker 03

  So like you, but you would know, yeah, but I mean, I live in a fake world.

• 1:19:31Speaker 00

  Um.

• 1:19:32Speaker 04

  That's why you use fake math with letters. Congratulations.

• 1:19:36Speaker 00

  What is happening?

• 1:19:36Speaker 04

  Everybody out there in the matrix, good job. You're good little goy slaves.

• 1:19:40Speaker 00

  That's amazing. How? How? This one is crazy. I had to look up like, what do people mean when they say goy? Like, are they literally saying that you're part of the Israel army or something? Or like, what, what is all of this? Um, so, yeah, the whole goy slave thing is uh, just becoming sort of internet memed, which is basically you're letting somebody pull the wool over your eyes and going to bat for somebody that doesn't have your best interests at heart. But, um, th- this guy is, uh, so Drew's head, I don't know if we're in a wide shot there. Drew's head said that is not a good interpretation. So Drew, what am I missing?

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  It was during the Epstein files when they were talking about-

• 1:20:21Speaker 00

  It is mutated from there so dramatically.

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  But, but that's, that's the origin story of it. It's like, let them, let the little goys do it. So non-Jewish, like, entity people. So then that became the Jewish are the ruling class. So now if you're not in the Jewish, the ruling class, you are a goy. So now you're subservient to them. So then it became like, you're a nice little slave boy. You're a nice little patchy on the head. Go be a good goy.

• 1:20:41Speaker 00

  I think maybe that's where it started to get popularized in the internet. It's been around for a very long time, like a very long time.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  Uh, I haven't seen anybody talk about it until the Epstein files dropped and Jeff Epstein was talking about it.

• 1:20:53Speaker 00

  I, so I went down the goy slop rabbit hole yesterday. It's, uh, history is, uh, far more amusing and complicated than that. Um, but anyway, you guys all have fun. Go research the etymology of, uh, goy slop, goy slave, all of that stuff. Um, but the idea that we're all in some, that math, that algebra is a Jewish conspiracy is the most retarded thing I've ever heard in my life. And by the way, if the need for algebra really is, um, a psyop, I hope you will all avail yourselves of the psyop because math is rad. And by the way, uh, I think it was actually a, um,

• 1:21:37Speaker 00

  uh, it starts in, uh, a discovery in Arabia and then becomes part of the Persian empire. So it's like, all of this stuff that we're saying somehow comes from, uh, Israel is absurd. It didn't-

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  Like math? Did you say math here?

• 1:21:54Speaker 00

  Algebra specifically. So algebra is an Arabic word.

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  I don't think in that instance, he was saying that.

• 1:22:00Speaker 00

  He's using it in the internet, I'm a fucking retard way of, uh, saying that because we use variables in our math, we are stuck in the matrix. Like that, the, the claim is so self-evidently stupid that I, I literally can't believe that, uh, we've gotten here. So, I mean, do you have a take on, did you ever pay attention to Tucker Carlson? Like, what is going on?

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, Tucker Carlson, I got nothing for that.

• 1:22:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  But that's just another MAGA, former MAGA who fall, who's fallen. Um, he was running it, then he wasn't. He was on Fox News. He was shucking and driving for him and they loved him then. Then he started calling out Trump. They don't love him no more. So.

• 1:22:38Speaker 00

  That's wild, man. It's wild. There's real brain rot there.

• 1:22:41Speaker 01

  Speaking of Jewish conspiracies, uh, that Haritz-

• 1:22:44Speaker 00

  I've not been prepared for this, so I don't know what's about to happen.

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  The Haritz, uh, publication released a massive bombshell investigation saying that there was a call made on September 23rd between the UAE president Bin Zayed and Netanyahu. Bin Zayed warned Netanyahu about an imminent threat of a Hamas attack that led, that later became October 7th. It's saying that Netanyahu got the warning and decided to do nothing. Um, another journalist said, immediately following October 7th, Hamas then offered to release hostages without anything in return with the condition that Israel selected mediator for negotiations. Israel refused. Um, Israel hasn't been doing the best job in the spotlight lately. I don't think this report is going to help it.

• 1:23:25Speaker 00

  No, and almost no matter what they say, if people are anti-Israel, they're going to remain anti-Israel. But this is one of those things where to comment on these specific things, I would need to know far more information about what actually happened. First of all, I'm sure that just like the US, you get a lot of reports of a lot of things and it becomes very difficult to know which ones are accurate. There's also the very real possibility that he's like, okay, I don't know if this is real, but honestly, I'm cool. Like if something happens and it's going to give us the opportunity to, uh, retaliate back and I'd really like an excuse to retaliate back, that's not a Jewish thing. That is a fucking, people do that shit all the time. If you want to look at how the US got into World War I, look that one up, man. The Germans tried and tried and tried and tried and tried to warn us.

• 1:24:10Speaker 00

  Don't keep putting passengers on these ships. These ships have been retrofitted to look and sound like military vehicles and you're putting munitions on them. We will blow them up. They took ads out in the newspaper and the State Department killed all the ads in the newspaper. So, listen, this is what countries do when they're trying to get an excuse to go to war. So, um, I'm all for people saying that when Israel does it, it is disgusting. It's just as disgusting as when any other country does it, but to say that this is somehow uniquely Jewish is fucking retarded. So, yeah, it is a thing humans do. Humans are grotesque, uh, at their worst. So obviously they're amazing at their best. But, yeah.

• 1:24:54Speaker 00

  So anyway, I would need a lot more information to know, uh, what to think about those individual claims. I don't need any more information to know that humans are capable of the most dastardly disgusting horrifying things if they think that it will serve their interests.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  Um, and then for the people that brought you AlphaFold, comes Alpha Genome. With Alpha Genome Atlas, we're now charting the human genome. It can predict the impact of all nine billion possible single-letter DNA variants, helping scientists better understand disease. Freely available for academic research. They just released it. So this is from Google DeepMind, who came up with the Alpha folding phenomenon a few years ago.

• 1:25:32Speaker 00

  The medical world is going to change your life faster and more dramatically than you realize. This is one of those wild runaway trains in the best way possible. This is going to alter the very fabric of humanity. This is the very thing that we want AI to do. So all of the scandal about is AI learning from what people are doing in the medical field, if nowhere else, we certainly want that to be true. We want all of this research to be going into a pool that everybody can learn from because when somebody makes a huge breakthrough, we all benefit from that. It is incredible. And I hope that people get very, very excited about understanding what's actually going on inside of our genes because then we can figure out what are the things that cause disease? What are the things that cause aging or inflammation?

• 1:26:17Speaker 00

  Things that will materially impact all of our day-to-day lives. So when I heard about AlphaFold, I was thrilled because once you understand what protein you need the body to make in order to have the effect that you want to have, then it just becomes a question of how do you get it folded in that way? How do you get that protein into the body? That will end up influencing drugs, treatments, all kinds of stuff. Once we understand, like, being able to map the genome of a, a cancer, for instance, and saying, okay, cool, we now understand the particular weaknesses of this exact cancer. Now we can go in and target that cancer in a very specific way that hurts that cancer, but leaves the healthy tissue alone. There, in the fullness of time, it's going to obviously take time.

• 1:27:01Speaker 00

  But in the fullness of time, you're going to see so many extraordinary breakthroughs come out of this kind of thing. And right now, we're in such a weird time with AI where, and look, I understand it, but we've got the looming threats of it's going to kill everybody. And in fact, we have that story. You just had a scientist at Anthropic, forget his name, but one of the, uh, researchers at Anthropic just quit because he's like, yo, Anthropic is just racing towards superintelligence that is likely to kill us all in the next 10 years. Uh, so he left. You've got the just crisis of meaning. What's going to happen? People are watching Astra take over their computer and build things that they could have built previously, but nowhere near as fast. Something that would take them a week or two weeks.

• 1:27:44Speaker 00

  Astra's doing in 20 minutes, an hour, but not, not rendering pixels, actually going in and taking control of the computer and actually building the asset in the same way that you would build the asset, just faster, far more efficient. And so people are feeling some type of way about that. So you've got all of that happening as we're also getting these extraordinary breakthroughs. And it's all getting mashed together. People are not parsing these out. And if we don't parse these out, we're going to regulate this poorly. We are going to need AI regulation. At a minimum, we're going to have to draw a line between what is weapons grade and what is something that everybody should be able to use.

• 1:28:28Speaker 00

  We absolutely have to do that. We have to take seriously the threats that come from artificial superintelligence. And the fact that you hit this sort of runaway point when the AI can self-improve itself at a rate that we can't control if the safety mechanisms aren't there in place. So you're going to need regulation. But regulation is often done very poorly. And as we just sort of panic react to all of these things, um, we're likely to do regulation poorly, which I think is even more dangerous because of the game theoretic realities that we have to face around the development of AI, because whoever wins AI just wins. And you've got the two biggest nation-states racing to develop AI.

• 1:29:09Speaker 00

  And if one of them decides to slow themselves down while the other one keeps moving forward, then you just guarantee that you lose. So you can't afford to do that. So you have to regulate sensibly. You have to do it well. You have to do it in coordination with China. Uh, you can't just panic, shut all this down, which is exactly what we're doing now in the US is we're showing a propensity to the panic reaction, clobber it, kill it, stop it. Uh, stop building data centers, all of that. And that will be dangerous to the US. And honestly, just leave us in a position where we're not taking advantage of some of these incredible breakthroughs.

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it was Jacob Kotzen who resigned from the, as the Anthropic researcher. Um, did you see that the Lancy, uh, Klancy jurors, uh, did a news bit and they were talking about the one holdout?

• 1:29:57Speaker 00

  Including Gary Busey?

• 1:29:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, here it goes.

• 1:30:00Speaker 05

  Not sure if rogue is the right word, too, but-

• 1:30:05Speaker 05

  Every one of us in the hours of a frustration would get up and walk the room. Cause you just couldn't sit anymore and would all go to the cart with the exhibits. He, I think got up to the cart once very briefly and went back to his seat. He would not, he would not interact with us and, and try to understand. We read him on numerous occasions, the definition of reasonable doubt from Judge Sullivan's instruction. He actually said one day in the end, well, why don't we have the judge come in and read it again? And we were like, no, we have it in front of us.

• 1:30:50Speaker 05

  We don't need that and we would highlight it and you know, so and so, this is the definition of reasonable doubt. But he had the hardest time getting off the fact that Lindsay viciously killed.

• 1:31:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, rightly so. What? So, uh, yeah, I can't believe that the Lindsay Clancy trial continues to, um, give people a chance to prove that they themselves have a level of insanity. I can't believe there was only one holdout on the jury. That is the thing that I'm startled by. Now, obviously I would need to hear from everybody. I didn't pay attention to the ins and outs of the case. I'm really arguing this from a moral standpoint, uh, in terms of what happens to society. If you do this, it is catastrophic. This is how you end up with people getting stabbed to death on the train by somebody who has mental illness problems. This is how you end up with a guy running around punching women in the face after his family begged for somebody to get him off the streets because he is unstable.

• 1:31:48Speaker 00

  The reality is that there's a very famous story of a woman back in the 50s. Exact same thing, kills her three kids, uh, gets off on insanity, goes to a mental hospital. The way that it's structured, if you go to a mental hospital, you can't be kept there. If you have shown that you're no longer a danger to yourself or others. And so if the therapist believe you're no longer a danger to yourself or others, they have to release you. And so they let her out after five years. Her husband stood by her. They end up having three more kids and she ends up killing those three kids as well. So it is fucking crazy that people don't go, okay, you committed a crime. You're going to do that time. Now I'm personally open to whether you do that time in a hospital

• 1:32:31Speaker 00

  or you do that time in a prison, but you're going to do that time because you have shown that your biology breaks in a certain way under certain stressors. So even if inside the hospital, you seem completely fine, nothing has changed about your underlying biology. So even if you're taking medication, the number of people that end up not taking their medication is insane and you can't run that risk. That's why you say doing this thing carries this penalty. So you either did the thing or you didn't. Now after that, once we have a number of years, you're going to be socked away. If people go, okay, cool. Uh, there's a different place that we send these people to for that period of time.

• 1:33:15Speaker 00

  Based on the fact that we think, you know, real dirt was done. They just got a bad, uh, deal, a biology, whatever. I'm open to that debate. Spoiler alert, I'm going to come down on the side of you send them to prison just because you create something that people can so easily game that system. But anyway, I'm open to the debate. I'm certainly open to being wrong, but that's where I come down on this now. So you've got to get mentally ill people off the street, plain and simple, if they've committed a crime. And so this person has obviously committed a crime. So she doesn't deny it. Her defense doesn't deny it. Nobody's saying she didn't kill the kids. Everybody's like, she killed the kids. Uh, so gotta put them away. Gotta put them away.

• 1:33:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. The prosecution is now retooling as they prepare for a retrial. Some people are even deciding they're going to do retrial. Maybe they're going to let the heat drop off a little bit. I don't know, but we shall see and we'll follow the case.

• 1:34:02Speaker 00

  So crazy, man. That one is so wild. I just can't, I can't believe that this is that hotly contested.

• 1:34:07Speaker 01

  There it is.

• 1:34:07Speaker 00

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