What Every Woman Should Know About Menopause with Dr. Sharon Malone

This week, IMO welcomes our first returning guest: Dr. Sharon! Her new show, The Second Opinion, is available to listen to now. Dr. Sharon discusses her childhood growing up in Mobile, Alabama; her close friendship with Michelle; and why women’s healthcare is so personal to her. Plus, she goes deep on what every woman should know about menopause. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com. And for more information on the The Second Opinion, go to: https://www.drsharonmalone.com/second-opinion See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Craig Robinson?

  This could have been an uncomfortable discussion for a guy. It absolutely was not. It was the opposite. I felt safe and informed and educated.

• 0:09Michelle Obama?

  Did you feel safe?

• 0:10Craig Robinson?

  That's what...

• 0:11Michelle Obama?

  Oh, let's hold his hand. He felt safe.

• 0:13Craig Robinson?

  You see, this is...

• 0:14Michelle Obama?

  You were safe.

• 0:21Michelle Obama?

  This episode is brought to you by Rivian and Alloy Women's Health.

• 0:27Craig Robinson?

  Hey, you.

• 0:28Michelle Obama?

  Hi, Craig.

• 0:30Craig Robinson?

  It's Michelle Obama in her favorite place.

• 0:32Michelle Obama?

  In Martha's Vineyard, in this beautiful barn in Chilmark, on the Vineyard.

• 0:38Craig Robinson?

  I like Chilmark. It's the perfect name for it. Chill.

• 0:41Michelle Obama?

  It's chill. Mark? I'm sure there's a deeper meaning to the name of the town. But yeah, one of my happy places. How you been?

• 0:49Craig Robinson?

  I've been good. You know what I did this trip? I'm so proud of myself.

• 0:52Michelle Obama?

  What'd you do?

• 0:53Craig Robinson?

  I got some pictures of myself taken all around the Vineyard.

• 0:58Michelle Obama?

  Oh, fancy pants.

• 0:59Craig Robinson?

  Down by the port where they...

• 1:03Michelle Obama?

  In Edgertown?

• 1:04Craig Robinson?

  In Edgertown and where you could see the lighthouse.

• 1:07Michelle Obama?

  By Harborview?

• 1:08Craig Robinson?

  By the Harborview. Yeah, yeah. And you know how I booked it?

• 1:13Michelle Obama?

  How?

• 1:13Craig Robinson?

  On Airbnb.

• 1:15Michelle Obama?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:16Craig Robinson?

  You can book services and experiences.

• 1:18Michelle Obama?

  Oh, wait, wait, wait. You booked a photo shoot?

• 1:20Craig Robinson?

  I booked my own photo shoot.

• 1:22Michelle Obama?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:23Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, well, I didn't book it, you know.

• 1:25Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:25Craig Robinson?

  My secretary booked it.

• 1:26Michelle Obama?

  So that's a part of the special amenities, the new approach to Airbnb, the experience?

• 1:33Craig Robinson?

  You can get different kinds of services. You can get a chef. You can get a tour guide. And you can get a photographer. So I got a photographer.

• 1:45Michelle Obama?

  Well, that's very cool. I know that...

• 1:46Craig Robinson?

  I'll send you some shots.

• 1:47Michelle Obama?

  This generation, which likes to photograph themselves everywhere, their food, their, you know, that's a great idea.

• 1:55Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:55Michelle Obama?

  So did you... I can't wait to see the photos. We gotta post them up on...

• 1:59Craig Robinson?

  I'm gonna send them to you. I'm gonna send them to you. We're gonna have them on social media. Yeah.

• 2:05Michelle Obama?

  Were you cute?

• 2:06Craig Robinson?

  Of course, I was cute.

• 2:07Michelle Obama?

  All right. Well, wonderful, wonderful.

• 2:09Craig Robinson?

  And I, a little birdie, as daddy, dad would say, a little birdie told me, you have another book coming out? How come I didn't know about this?

• 2:17Michelle Obama?

  I do, you did know. You weren't, probably weren't paying attention.

• 2:19Craig Robinson?

  That could be true.

• 2:21Michelle Obama?

  But we, you know, announced in the summer that my third book is coming out. And I'm really excited about this book because it's called The Look. And it's all about my fashion evolution, something that I never talked about as first lady because I didn't want, you know, to be limited to what I looked like or what I wore. But that was definitely an important part of my journey. So the book is, it's structured like a coffee table book.

• 2:49Craig Robinson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:49Michelle Obama?

  But it's beautiful photos, but a lot of wonderful essays. The foreword is written by Farah Griffin, who is a professor of sociology, dean of everything at Columbia. I co-wrote it with Meredith Coop, who's my stylist.

• 3:09Craig Robinson?

  Yes, I know Meredith.

• 3:10Michelle Obama?

  And we also have her story in there. We have my whole, what I call my trifecta story. Makeup, hair, all the team that worked on those, you hear from them. You hear about the journey behind all that went into waking up every morning and being the first lady.

• 3:29Craig Robinson?

  Wow.

• 3:30Michelle Obama?

  And so it's, it's coming out in November. And we are going to have a special IMO podcast on The Look. A limited IMO series that will go deep into some of those stories.

• 3:46Craig Robinson?

  Wow. So the secrets will be out?

• 3:48Michelle Obama?

  The secrets will be out.

• 3:50Craig Robinson?

  Yummy.

• 3:50Michelle Obama?

  And it's fun, it's beautiful, it's insightful, because it's not just about fashion. It's about how we show up in the world, what it takes, how we're, the lens with which we oftentimes as women are struggling to break free of as we are doing substantive things in the world. Talks about hair, the black girl hair experience, all of that. All the things that I never talked about, I do it in this book. And we will be doing it on the podcast. So, so our listeners know, you can preorder the look.

• 4:25Michelle Obama?

  It is available wherever you get books.

• 4:28Craig Robinson?

  I can't wait.

• 4:29Michelle Obama?

  Our first little teaser.

• 4:30Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 4:30Michelle Obama?

  Something, but we got some more teasers.

• 4:33Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 4:33Michelle Obama?

  Because we, our guest today is the first returning guest.

• 4:38Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 4:38Michelle Obama?

  That we've had here on I M O. She was such a hit all across the land.

• 4:43Craig Robinson?

  And people had so many health questions. We thought we'd bring her back.

• 4:47Michelle Obama?

  Yes, we are talking about Dr. Sharon Malone. Craig, you can run down her bio.

• 4:54Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah, well, of course. Dr. Malone is a nationally recognized O B G Y N with over 30 years of experience. And now a New York Times bestseller.

• 5:05Michelle Obama?

  Yes, indeed.

• 5:07Craig Robinson?

  Her book, Grown Woman Talk. And she has also been a longtime advocate for practical information on women's health and aging. She is now also the host of her own podcast, From Higher Ground, The Second Opinion. Please welcome our dear friend Sharon Malone. Subject matter expert extraordinaire.

• 5:34Craig Robinson?

  Hi, sweetie.

• 5:37Craig Robinson?

  Good to see you.

• 5:40Michelle Obama?

  Welcome back to the I M O table.

• 5:44Craig Robinson?

  And you get in there.

• 5:45Michelle Obama?

  Back by popular demand. I can get in there. As they say, I mean, folks just love, love you on the first episode that you were here. Because you are fabulous, you are killing it on the book front. And it's not just the information in the book. It's the information provider. Sharon, you know, I think everybody here knows that you have been one of my, my best friends. One of the happy places in my life for a long, long time.

• 6:23Michelle Obama?

  And I just want to take some time for people to really get to know Sharon. You know, not Dr. Malone, the Sharon that I know. Because one of the reasons I think your book has been so popular is that it it shows your voice through and through. You know, you you are not just a substantive expert in the field, but you are funny as all get out. Your music taste is sublime. And your voice just rings true. Were you were you always a comedian?

• 6:57Speaker 02

  You know, you know, I I'm a survivor. And, you know, let me just say, when you're the youngest of eight children, you have to learn how to bob and weave. You know, it's like you can't beat anybody. So you better figure out a way to disarm them.

• 7:11Michelle Obama?

  And you're the youngest by a long way.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  I'm the youngest by a lot.

• 7:13Michelle Obama?

  You were the oops baby. As you was like, now, that's you. Those are your words.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  That is correct, because I have to own that. But the age span between the oldest and the youngest in my family is 23 years. So my oldest brother was married when I was born.

• 7:28Craig Robinson?

  Got it.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  And then there's seven years between me and the next sibling. So, you know, I had my way with no one. So, you know, you just learn how to, you know, disarm people, perhaps with a little humor, so they won't beat you up.

• 7:41Michelle Obama?

  Because that's the key in life is just when you've grown up, you just don't want to get beat up.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly. And back in the day when I was growing up, they really would beat you up. It wasn't like they would just threaten you.

• 7:52Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, right. Yeah, back in the day, folks still fought.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Yes, they did.

• 7:56Michelle Obama?

  I remember you were telling me about your your your early school years and how you were you told me the story about how you were the always the smart kid and you would do everybody else's homework. Tell me, tell them about that.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Survival skills. I'm telling you, you know, you know, not only was I the youngest in my family, but I used to be a skinny little girl, you know. So again, I couldn't control anybody at home, and I couldn't control anybody at school either. So, you know, I'd be sitting there and it's like Sharon. And I'd say, oh, yes, you'd like to see my homework? No problem. Give you the math homework, do that. But you, you know, hey, you got to do what you got to do, right? I didn't get beat up.

• 8:42Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 8:43Craig Robinson?

  So, so both of you all have kept this really tight circle of friends, not just here on Martha's Vineyard, but throughout your lives. And can you talk a little bit about what community has meant to you? And, and, and how it's helped you over the years in your practice?

• 9:01Speaker 02

  Community is everything. And, you know, I also had the unfortunate experience of losing my mother when I was 12 years old.

• 9:10Craig Robinson?

  Oh.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  So I moved a lot.

• 9:12Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  You know, so when my mother died, I moved to Atlanta and I was, you know, a new family, living with my older sister. I went to a new school in a new state. And you have to figure, you have to find it because I wasn't, I never moved with my family. You know, it was always just me. And I lived in Atlanta for two years and I lived in Dallas for a year. Another year I came back to Mobile. And every place I went to just to combat the loneliness that you feel, and particularly loneliness in the face of loss.

• 9:44Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 9:45Speaker 02

  Um, you know, I found people and I found people at school or people at church that um, could really help fill up some of that empty space that I had.

• 9:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah. How, how did you become such a survivor? I mean, where do you think you got that from? Because you lost your mother young. Your father was much, he was an older parent.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:06Michelle Obama?

  By a lot. You were kind of like an only child.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  I was like an only child. I was a, I say, I was a free range child. Because when you live with siblings, even though they're older than you, that's not the relationship that we had had. This is, you know, my sister, you know, and the, the happiest thing you could say when someone would tell you to do something, "You're not my mother. You're not my father." You know?

• 10:31Michelle Obama?

  And you, you whip that out a lot.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  I whip it out occasionally. Yeah, I was kind of a pain. But, but I really, I don't know where it comes from. But I know, I do know this, that, that sense of resilience and the, the sense of feeling as if, I may be down, but I'm not out. I think I got that from my mother. Because, you know, as difficult as things were for me, my mother also lost her mother when she was only 14. And she was the one who was really in charge of taking care of her younger siblings. So, you know, relatively speaking, you know, my life was way easier than her life, even though they both were difficult in, you know, in different ways.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  But my mom was really pretty an amazing woman. And I'm glad that at least I got to know her for 12 years. And, you know, and some people don't get that. And I, she was amazing and strong and smart. But here's the thing, smart people, but they were smart at the wrong time.

• 11:37Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? They didn't have the opportunity to show how smart they were. But, you know, I saw it, I still feel it. And I still, you know, every time I think of her and even my older sister, I still hear her voice in my head and that's, she's been gone over 50 years.

• 11:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:56Craig Robinson?

  At what age did you say, all right, I think I want to be a doctor? Or did that not come till later on? Because I think all of us wanted to be a doctor at some point.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  We just didn't have the brain power.

• 12:09Craig Robinson?

  We didn't have the fortitude to stick it out.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  Early on, it's like, ooh, math, there's math in being a doctor? Well, count me out. Well, you know, you know what's funny is that the thought occurred to me when I was probably in third grade. And third grade was the first time that I had ever heard anybody's parent who was a doctor. You know, my parents were working class people and as were most of the people in our neighborhood.

• 12:36Michelle Obama?

  And you grew up in Alabama.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  Mobile, Alabama. Segregated, mobile Alabama. But I didn't really know professional people. And so, but the other thing that I talk about a lot in my book is the fact that I didn't grow up having any experience of even interacting with doctors. You know, I was taken care of by Dr. Mom. You know, and my mom knew, growing up where she did in the rural South, she knew a lot of remedies, home remedies. And she, I told you, she was really smart about most things. But there was a point at which, you know, the, your skill set, you know, is exceeded. And that is unfortunately why my mother lost her life.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  But, but I say that to say, I was like, wow, there's a black kid in my class and his dad is a doctor. And it's about knowing, you know, just see what you can see. What you can see. That was the biggest thing I could think of to be was a doctor. And that idea got in my head. And, you know, when you're a smart kid and you can do math and science, you kind of, it just kind of, it got a life of its own. Oh, Sharon's going to be a doctor, Sharon's going to be a doctor. And, you know, and here I am.

• 13:49Michelle Obama?

  Did you feel like you had the same challenges that girls today have being taken seriously in math and science? Or did you feel like there are a lot of girls who just don't go into the field because they don't think they have math brains? Or they're the only ones in the advanced math class? What was that like for you as a young black girl, growing up in Mobile, being a STEM kid essentially?

• 14:14Speaker 02

  You know what's funny is I, I think that, you know, everything leads to something else. And being the youngest of eight kids and growing up in the deep South in segregation, I started first grade in 1965.

• 14:30Speaker 02

  My sister had just graduated from the University of Alabama. She had integrated the University of Alabama in 1963. So everyone in my family, for generations and generations, no one had ever been to an integrated school until Vivian integrated the University of Alabama, but she was 20 years old. There was a Catholic school that was across the street from my house. It was literally, I could throw a rock and hit the playground. And that school had always been white. And in 1965, I think my mother felt emboldened. So she was like, well, if Vivian can go to the University of Alabama, you can go to the school across the street. So I went to that Catholic school for two years. And there was a nun there, and her name was Sister Miriam Regina.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  And bless her heart, she let me be smart. You know, even though I was only one of two little black kids in class, she affirmed the fact that I was smart. She would say, you know, she would say, Sharon, you take the reading group and go in the back, that kind of thing. And so from the very beginning, I never had that feeling that someone was smarter than me. You know, I'm in a class full of white kids and I go, yeah, I'm a smart kid here. But I didn't have that gender thing either, because even when I went back to segregated schools, there were boys, there were girls, and everybody was kind of on your own. If you were the smart kid, you were the smart kid. You didn't have to, you know, hide your light.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  And you really had to love what you do, not just because you're good at it, but I don't know that a lot of people know that you, in the midst of becoming a doctor, being a doctor, starting your own practice, you also had three little kids and a husband. Our former Attorney General Eric Holder, who had, as one of the things that bonded us, he had a career that just took you to places that you might not have wanted to go, but there you have it. And I want people to, you know, just talk about what it was like for you with three, you know, back-to-back children

• 16:37Speaker 02

  and maintaining a thriving practice and getting to be a doctor.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  This segment is brought to you by Alloy Women's Health. At Alloy, everything starts with the science. We're on a mission to make evidence-based menopause care accessible, starting with real doctors who specialize in perimenopause and menopause.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  You know, I am the chief medical advisor at Alloy Women's Health, and I feel like we're having a full circle moment here because it all started with you. Almost exactly five years ago to the day, you and I did a little podcast on menopause.

• 17:21Michelle Obama?

  We sure did.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  And believe it or not, that podcast led to the founders of Alloy, Anne Follin-Water and Monica Melonauer, who is in Rotterdam. They listened to that podcast, heard me, and said, wow, we need that woman to be part of Alloy. But it all started with you. And I think that says a lot about the credibility that you have because they figure, if she's good enough for Michelle Obama, she must be OK for our company. And I've never looked back since. What wisdom have you gained through your health journey that you wish more women would speak openly about?

• 17:58Michelle Obama?

  Sharon, we talk about this all the time. I just want women to own their bodies. I mean, I want us to be more aware of how we feel physically. So many women are taught to ignore our bodies, you know, not to sweat, not to overexert ourselves. But what I've learned over the years is that knowing my body and understanding my healthy baseline, knowing what my body is supposed to feel like when everything works, helps me know when something's going wrong.

• 18:40Michelle Obama?

  So I don't just exercise and eat right and get sleep because I want to look good. I also want to know in my body what health feels like. So I always encourage women to understand that how they feel physically is as important as they look.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  You know, I always tell my patients that because honestly, no one knows how you feel but you. And being able to communicate that effectively is everything. Join the 95% of women who tried Aloy and saw relief in the first two weeks. Head to myalloy.com and tell them all about your symptoms and you'll get a fully customized treatment plan. And you'll get $25 off your first order today when you use code IMO25. Head to myalloy.com and enter the code IMO25 to get $25 off your first order.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I am not gonna lie. It was really hard. And when I look back on that now and I say to myself, wait a minute. At some point in my life, I had a newborn, a two-year-old and a four-year-old. And my husband was doing his thing, you know. He used to say, you know, but I knew that. And it was just, it's such a blur, you know. And that's why Michelle and I could always relate because I was like, I was mad through the night, all of the 1990s. You know, I didn't come out of the other side of it. I'm like, wait a minute, oh, y'all, can you be left alone? Okay, that's when I was like, phew. But it was, it's, it's a lot.

• 20:26Craig Robinson?

  So you were mad though?

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, are you kidding me? Because this would be, you know, my husband would say, okay, I'm on my way home. I said, okay. And then hours later, children are in bed and then he'd let the garage door up. I'm like, daddy, daddy's home. And they're waking up.

• 20:44Craig Robinson?

  Oh, ouch.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  But you know what? But see, it's all relative. It's all relative. And I always had to say to myself, I was like, okay, Sharon, get a hold, get a grip. I had a lot more resources than my mother had. By the time my mother was my age, I think she had, she had seven children. I only had three. So I was like, you know.

• 21:09Michelle Obama?

  Say, I should be able to manage this.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  I should be able to manage that. And she didn't even have disposable diapers. So surely I could, surely.

• 21:18Michelle Obama?

  But you were on call too. I mean, this is because you were delivering babies and with babies.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  I was.

• 21:26Michelle Obama?

  And had to be up for 24, 48 hour shifts.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know what? You know what that led to? So when I've got all these little children and I have two girls and I have a boy. And the day before my 40th birthday, that was the day of the big chop. Okay. One day I had a ponytail. I went to work that morning and I had a ponytail. I had a perm and strong, laid, straight hair and it was all back in a ponytail. And I, after work, I went to the hairdresser and I came home and I looked like this. And.

• 22:03Michelle Obama?

  Like, I can't deal with one extra hair.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  I can't do it. And, and honestly, I think, I think my husband thought I'd had a nervous breakdown between 8 a.m. and 6 when I got home. And he was like, honey, are you okay? I said, yeah, I'm good. I'm good. Best thing I've ever done. I have not grown it back one time since and that was 25 years ago.

• 22:24Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. But that's some, you gotta do what you gotta do.

• 22:27Michelle Obama?

  You gotta do what you gotta do. This is, this is why we are friends. Cause we spend all our time talking about, girl, how are we getting through this?

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Exactly. Exactly. But the way you get through it is really with community. With your friends. Because on those many times when, you know, my husband couldn't get home or I had to go somewhere, sometimes you just call up your friends and say, girl, I gotta run here. Can you come over here and sit with the kids for a while? That is how I think that even through the most difficult times, you know, we made it through. Because I had this really wonderful community of girlfriends. I had them then. I have, and you've met a lot of them. They're still around to this day.

• 23:08Michelle Obama?

  So that's the beauty. We've met each other's friends. I mean, that's how the friendship circle works, at least with us. I know with a lot of women friend groups, I mean, our friends have become friends with one another. I mean, I know Deanie and Bonnie and your other Michelle, your other Michelle. And, you know, all those. Characters play, you know, they live vividly in my head is because they've been such an important part of your life.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  That's exactly right. And we, and we know each other's stories, you know, and it's nice to see those characters come to life because you know, we talk about our friends all the time. So, you know, that's the, I think that's the really wonderful part about being of womanhood is that we do sort of naturally sort of create communities. We have to, we have to.

• 23:59Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, and we started, you know, the, the story goes, we talked about this when you first came, your first visit to IMO. But one of our bonding experiences were these bootcamps that I would hold at Camp David for my old friends and new friends. We did about three times a year. You know, weekend, we'd go to Camp David, we'd have our trainer there, we'd have all the Marines there, and it was my version of wellness, although I did, I was a little too, too harsh about it.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  But you know what? Let me just say this about your sister, okay? She's always ahead of the curve. So now everybody's got a wellness retreat and a wellness weekend. We were doing this 17 years ago, you know, before it was a thing. So that's why I said, what she said.

• 24:47Craig Robinson?

  Oh, I thought you were gonna say that she was a little bit competitive and that's why she's.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  We know that, we know that. When we go, we go on the walks, I'm like, I'm gonna just stay back here with the, with the slow group.

• 25:01Craig Robinson?

  Bike ride, she's gotta be in the front.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  That's all right, I'm good. See, I'm, I'm, I'm secure about that. I'm like, mm, no, I'm good.

• 25:07Michelle Obama?

  That's Sharon, Sharon, Sharon says no to a lot of stuff. She's like, you know what, I don't, I'm gonna go on a third of that walk and then I'll see you back at the, at the bar, you know?

• 25:17Speaker 02

  You know what? I'd like to say that I am personally responsible for reinstituting a wine, a little wine hour at the end because before.

• 25:27Michelle Obama?

  Sharon was the advocate, it was dry, it was dry. And then for the third time, people were like, I don't know if I'm coming if we can't drink at all. So we put.

• 25:37Craig Robinson?

  Would've been a one person.

• 25:37Michelle Obama?

  It would've been like, okay, I'm about to lose all my friends.

• 25:40Speaker 02

  They would have, let me just say, in the little rooms, you'd have M and Ms. You have the, you go there, the M and Ms will be gone.

• 25:46Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  Right, because they, you couldn't have any of that.

• 25:49Michelle Obama?

  All my friends have been to camp, David, out of, outside of the boot camp weekends. So they know what is usually there.

• 25:57Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 25:57Michelle Obama?

  And they get there.

• 25:58Craig Robinson?

  Share with the audience, like, what's, what is it like when it's not boot camp? There's candy everywhere.

• 26:04Michelle Obama?

  Candy everywhere and cookies. It's supposed to be a delightful retreat.

• 26:08Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 26:08Michelle Obama?

  There's a little shangri la in where you can get bar food.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:12Michelle Obama?

  You know, my friends, wings.

• 26:14Speaker 02

  All kinds of things.

• 26:15Michelle Obama?

  My friends would be lying and eating the healthy dinner, but then going to shangri la and getting some fried food. And I'd be like, this defeats the purpose. But the, you know, one of the things I knew about Sharon is like Sharon could hang because we were doing stuff like, we were playing dodgeball. You know, I mean, women of all ages.

• 26:34Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 26:34Michelle Obama?

  Remember Susan, one of our friends who at the time was in her seventies? And we were competing with dodgeball with her.

• 26:41Craig Robinson?

  Oh, no. Tell me you didn't hit her with a dodgeball.

• 26:44Michelle Obama?

  Well, she wasn't on my team.

• 26:46Craig Robinson?

  Oh, Lord.

• 26:46Michelle Obama?

  And she was always the last person standing because nobody wanted to hit her.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, that would, we could've, we could've. But it would've been wrong.

• 26:54Michelle Obama?

  And I'm like, come on, somebody take her out. Just take her out at her knees, you know? Everybody was like, oh. So Susan be standing there, always the last man standing, you know?

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:08Michelle Obama?

  Relay races, but.

• 27:09Craig Robinson?

  So I want to know, Sharon, how, if you're, if you were your own patient, how would you describe yourself as a doctor?

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Oh, I would be the one in there really asking the questions. And I would be like, are you sure? You know, see, because I'm not shy when it comes to that kind of advocacy. Because I always had to advocate for myself because I had no one else to do it for me. You know, I didn't go to, I didn't, we didn't have, you know, people go to pediatrician's appointments for just well, children checkup.

• 27:42Michelle Obama?

  That wasn't a thing.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  Never. We went, you got shots at school.

• 27:48Michelle Obama?

  And Nobody got braces. No, no, no, no. I can tell you what kind of doctor she is. If I had grown up and lived in DC and if we didn't have Walter Reed, the Presidential Medical Center, I would be among the many, many patients who are loyal to Dr. Malone throughout the DC area. I mean, everybody, she has delivered every child that we know. She has taken care of them through adolescence. And you imagine, you birth a child and then you see them through to, if it's a girl, maybe you're talking to them about birth control.

• 28:32Michelle Obama?

  You know, you see some people into their adulthood because not only is Sharon good, but she can, she provides, she's, she's, the confidentiality is real. There is no slippage. I don't know who half your patients are. You never talked about who your patients were, but everybody walked up and said, of all races throughout DC, I've been with Sharon for many years. My wife is with her, my daughters are with her. She is the go-to doctor. And I realized that, you know, started to realize how valuable that was during the boot camp weekends where we would, after we punished ourselves and ate salad

• 29:13Michelle Obama?

  and maybe had a glass of wine, we'd sit around and we just started talking about life and questions and it often led to what was going on with us, our bodies as we aged. And Sharon was always there with just clear, practical guidance and advice that, you know, she's everybody's second opinion. You know, and maybe that's a good segue to talk about your new show because that's another reason why we've got you on here is because you've been so popular with our IMO listeners and your book has been so popular

• 29:54Michelle Obama?

  that we are bringing you into the IMO family with your own podcast called Second Opinion. Can you talk a bit about your show?

• 30:05Speaker 02

  First, I want to say thank you for that. But you know, I wanted to be, I always modeled my professional career over, you know, I would say around the concept that I'm not the doctor and you're the patient. Okay, that's not how, that hierarchical thing.

• 30:25Craig Robinson?

  Oh, got you. Yeah.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Where doctors sometimes.

• 30:28Craig Robinson?

  You're not patronizing. Yeah.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Where you gotta feel, or I have to talk down to you. Because I know what it feels like being on that other side of it. You know, I know what that meant for my mother and family members to not be able to have, you know, adequate health care, particularly in the segregated South. So I wanted to come to the second opinion with the same, with that same attitude. You know, I do hear you and I see you and I understand what you're talking about, but I'm going to give you some advice in a way that you can understand it. And you know this, there's not a time when I'm out somewhere and someone who I just met will start, they'll say, "Oh, you're a doctor?" And then they'll start asking me the questions that they should have asked their doctor.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  But they don't have time to. And that's why I want the second opinion to be that show. I want it to be approachable. I want people, I want to talk about the things that people really have questions about, that you don't have time to talk about in your doctor's office, or that you, for whatever reason, may have been too intimidated, or felt as if, "No, that's a stupid question. There is no stupid question."

• 31:37Craig Robinson?

  Or may not even been trained to ask the questions.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly. Sometimes you don't even know what the possibilities are, you know?

• 31:45Michelle Obama?

  And there's an intimidation factor. I mean, especially when it comes to women and people of color. You know, we don't, we don't know that we're supposed to question authority. We're not socialized to feel that way. So you, you have always been a safe space for all of our friends, our community. Sometimes you just need the reassurance that there's somebody who loves you, you know, who cares about you and sees you. Who is, you know, pointing you in the right direction?

• 32:15Speaker 02

  And that's been the history of, of just women's interaction with doctors. I mean, we've not been believed, we've not been seen, you're being hysterical. And when you're talking about black women, then there is also this incredibly ingrained

• 32:36Speaker 02

  bias. We think that black women, oh, well, you're being, you know, you're just being extra, or you can take it, you know, and we know this because we have data that says that, you know, black women are constant, you know, are consistently undermedicated for pain, not believed, undertreated for conditions that they actually do have. I mean, and that's, there's a lot of robust data about that. And so, you know, I, what I want to do, and like, let me, I'm gonna be completely clear. I don't know everything. That's why the show is called The Second Opinion, because there are going to be things that I don't know. I may not know the answer, but I know who to call. And I also know the questions

• 33:20Speaker 02

  to give you, such that when you see your doctor, you know the right questions to ask. But you're right, Craig, sometimes you don't even know what the universe is. You just take that as, oh, well, I guess that's what my doctor said. But is it, is that the right thing for you? That's the, that's the mindset I want people to have.

• 33:39Michelle Obama?

  And in this world of social media where people are way too reliant on their own search engines to answer deep medical, I mean, but I think that's just the, it's a reflection of how intimidating the medical process is. I mean, people would rather go online and feel the, what they mislabel as independence. You know, it's like, or, you know, a lot of people don't even have access. They don't have doctors to call. So especially this generation of young people who are going on WebMD and they're looking up symptoms and they're self-diagnosing, or they're

• 34:19Michelle Obama?

  seeking out their own medication and all of that. That, that has become a growing sort of practice among a whole generation of people, which I find completely dangerous. Can you talk a bit about that?

• 34:43Craig Robinson?

  Hey everybody, Craig Robinson here. And you guys have heard me talk a lot about how much I love staying in Airbnbs. Well, our family is planning a trip out to the West Coast to visit our daughter. And we were thinking, man, it's gonna be hard to roll up in her two-bedroom apartment with six people. So we decided to get an Airbnb where we could all hang out comfortably. We'll have more bedrooms, we don't have to fight over bathrooms, there'll be a kitchen, we can cook out if we want. So my wife Kelly found the perfect place for us using Airbnb's Guest Favorites. We're staying close to my daughter's place, which means we can spend more time with her and easily get out into the city.

• 35:26Craig Robinson?

  We get a chance to tour LA, take her to her favorite restaurant, drop by Universal, let the kids play around for a day. Or we could go by Griffith Observatory, which is the place I've always wanted to see. If you're starting to think about your next trip, check out Airbnb's Guest Favorites. Guest Favorites are the most loved homes on Airbnb by other guests.

• 35:50Craig Robinson?

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• 36:32Craig Robinson?

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• 37:16Craig Robinson?

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• 38:01Craig Robinson?

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• 38:45Craig Robinson?

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• 39:28Craig Robinson?

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• 40:13Craig Robinson?

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• 40:27Speaker 02

  You know what? I think that the explosion of social media, particularly when it comes to medical issues. I mean, it is, there's a lot of good that has come from it because it has, we've raised the awareness of a lot of issues, particularly when it comes to menopause and perimenopause. And I think that the conversation that you and I had five years ago really sort of opened the floodgates because you were one of the first people who said the word "menopause." "Oh, yeah, and I'm in it." And now it's a conversation that has been, you know, that is never-ending. So that's good.

• 41:03Craig Robinson?

  Mm-hmm. That's great. It's really neat because...

• 41:10Craig Robinson?

  As a husband and a father and a son. Because you know, the first time I heard about menopause was from my mom. And she was just talking about hot flashes. So she wasn't like-

• 41:20Speaker 02

  I don't even remember her ever talking about hot flashes.

• 41:22Craig Robinson?

  She would say it to me. She would say it to me when, and when she was having one. And she's like, oh, I'm having a hot flash. And I was like, I knew what a hot flash was.

• 41:33Speaker 02

  Did you?

• 41:33Craig Robinson?

  And I knew what it indicated, I should say. I didn't know what it was. I knew what it indicated. And so there are many men who can't even support the women in their lives. Because we have no idea what's going on. And so I'm so happy that we're talking about this.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:54Craig Robinson?

  From a, from a man's standpoint. Because not only do we not know what's going on, we're not like women. Like Kelly goes to all of my appointments. I never go to her appointments. And I'm sure, I mean, I'm sure you don't see too many husbands coming in for their wives' Obi-Gani appointments.

• 42:11Speaker 02

  Only when they're pregnant.

• 42:12Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  You know, because that's like, whatever's going on with you is only important. It's only important when you have some, when you are carrying another human being.

• 42:20Michelle Obama?

  It's like I have a stake in the baby, but not in the woman carrying it. So you go on along to your pap smear.

• 42:27Craig Robinson?

  So I want to be prepared so when, as Kelly moves into this stage, I can be at least educated and be a little bit more supportive than- And then be a, be a role model for other dudes out there.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  Because it's a lot.

• 42:44Craig Robinson?

  It sounds like a lot.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  It's a lot. But you know, what menopause is, is that

• 42:52Speaker 02

  if, if men understood the things that women endure from the moment we hit puberty.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  To, straight through menopause. Mm-hmm. There is this, um, normalization of women's suffering. Yeah. That we take on as well. Because we think we're supposed to suffer. Well, that's what be, oh, I'm supposed to have cramps. Oh, I'm supposed to have this, I'm supposed to. And so, a lot of times, we, because we don't know where to go and who to ask for help. And if you think that's normal, what, what really disturbs me is seeing how long women have suffered. Mm-hmm. And menopause is just the, the last of the suffering episodes that they have had to endure. And so, when you get to menopause, if you understood

• 43:44Speaker 02

  that menopause is not just about a hot flash. Right. Menopause affects every organ system in a woman's body. So that's why a lot of the stuff, the irritability, the mood swings, the brain fog, the crying jags, depression, anxiety, it's affecting your brain. It's not, you know, when people say, oh, it's just in your head. Yeah, of course, everything is in your head. You know, that's where everything registers. But it is having real life effects on your skin, your hair, you know, your sexuality, how you move around in the world, your confidence.

• 44:19Michelle Obama?

  Imagine if men experienced any of that. There would be a pill, a rub, a spray, and surgery.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:25Michelle Obama?

  Already discovered.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:27Michelle Obama?

  And being implemented.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  Right. But, you know, the, the sad thing is that we do know how to treat menopause. We do. But unfortunately, it's like it's been a secret. You know, and this generation of women really has been left out of the conversation and thinking that they, because it's dangerous, or maybe it's gonna give me cancer, that hormone therapy, which is the most effective treatment. That's, that's why I will get in people's business. Because if I see people out there and they're fanning, or they got a little electric fan, I'm like, oh, go. Hey, you know, we have something for that.

• 45:00Michelle Obama?

  So you don't need to do that.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  Please don't just sit there because it goes on for years. It's not like labor where you go, well, this baby is coming out of there at some point. No, this is for years and for some women, a decade or more of not feeling your best self. When this solution is at hand for most women. Yeah. But we don't know.

• 45:21Michelle Obama?

  And explain to Craig and the listeners once again, what has been the rub against women using hormone replacement therapy?

• 45:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, hormone therapy has been around since 1942. So it's not like we just discovered what the treatment is, you know? It's a hormonal issue that is dealt with by giving women hormones. Okay, estrogen primarily. And we've been doing that, but you know, again, for women of color and for people who don't have doctors to see, you know, again, you're least likely to have gotten that in 1955 because again, you didn't know and you don't have a doctor. So there's that. But the big shift happened in 2002. And there was a study that came out called the Women's Health Initiative, which really

• 46:14Speaker 02

  put the fear of God in women because we knew it was effective for treatment for the symptoms. That everybody knew. But when it raised the issue that hormone therapy slightly increases the risk of breast cancer, then it was games set and matched. Women threw away their hormones, no matter how great they felt on them, they stopped taking them.

• 46:34Michelle Obama?

  And doctors recommended that they stop.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Because, and then so imagine for 23 years, we've had the solution right at hand and no one would take it for fear of breast cancer. And we're not, you know, and that's not true. And the data doesn't back that up. No, it wasn't true then, it's not true now. And that the benefits outweigh the risk. But we have to undo all of that think, that negative thinking because women fear breast cancer more than they fear a heart attack. You know, because breast cancer strikes at something very, that's very personal. I can see it.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  So that's been my mission is really to try to get out there and to get women to understand, you know, suffering is a choice. Don't choose it. Why would you?

• 47:24Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 47:25Michelle Obama?

  And let me just say, I don't choose it. Um, I, I, I was, I started to feel the symptoms of menopause. It was sometime during the first term and it comes like you wake up one day and you're having hot flashes.

• 47:40Craig Robinson?

  And at what age?

• 47:42Michelle Obama?

  I had to been in my late 40s.

• 47:45Craig Robinson?

  Oh.

• 47:45Michelle Obama?

  Right? Um, mid 40s, but here's the thing. When menopause happens is very different. It varies from woman to woman. It, it, it depends on your history, your gene structure. Some people go into menopause in their 30s. Uh, some people may not feel any symptoms, right? And that's maybe confusing to husbands, right? Um, you know, cause if it's not, cause you think, well, this should be happening equally to everybody and it, and it, and it doesn't. So for me, I was in my late 40s, at least when I started having, uh, hot flashes. But I knew that that probably meant I was para-menopausal.

• 48:28Michelle Obama?

  I could have been para-menopausal for 10 years before that, right?

• 48:32Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 48:32Michelle Obama?

  But it just, it was like, I woke up one day and started, you know, having these bouts of severe heat and flash and sweating. It was like, what happened today? You know, it, I woke up and it was different like that, like, you know? So I was like, okay, this is, you know, I knew enough to know, okay, I'm starting to have the hot flashes, right? And I thought probably like a lot, a lot of women, let me, let me see if I could handle this, the suffering thing.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 49:00Michelle Obama?

  Let me see if I can get through this. Why? I don't know. You know, probably I didn't think to just call the doctor right then and there. It started, let's go. Um, but I said, well, I've got time. Let me just, you know. Sit this one out. And I, I went on a couple of trips. I'm the first lady, right? I've got speeches and I'm on planes and I'm changing clothes. I got my hair done. It was one trip. I think I had about 40 hot flashes. And I was like, I, I can't live like this. I can't get off this plane soaking wet. I can't factor in the time to change clothes and redo my hair in between a day of speeches, right? I just, it wouldn't be a good look. People would be like, what's wrong with her? She must be lying.

• 49:45Michelle Obama?

  She's sweating, you know?

• 49:47Craig Robinson?

  And you're literally sweating. I think there are a lot of us out here, men who hear hot flash, but we don't know what it means. We don't know that you're dripping.

• 49:56Michelle Obama?

  You, you can wait. If you've ever had a night sweat? Have you ever had a night sweat?

• 50:01Craig Robinson?

  No, but I've had sweating from working out. So I know where sweating a lot is.

• 50:05Michelle Obama?

  It is not.

• 50:06Craig Robinson?

  It's different.

• 50:07Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, sweating from working out, there's exertion that leads to your body heating up. And you can feel it coming and you, there's a connection. No, you are sitting here like this. And from within, like a furnace is lit in you, like a hot, hot furnace, right? Like your organs are just.

• 50:28Craig Robinson?

  A hot furnace.

• 50:29Michelle Obama?

  Hot coals, right? Your stomach, your liver, your heart is just. Think of that, think of that.

• 50:36Craig Robinson?

  I'm not laughing at your pain and suffering.

• 50:39Michelle Obama?

  And it comes like that. It, it's not painful, but it's just hot, right? And then from with inside, you, it's like you burst with water. Water just drips, dripping.

• 50:49Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 50:50Michelle Obama?

  Your clothes are soaking wet. You have to change your clothes.

• 50:53Craig Robinson?

  Right, right.

• 50:55Michelle Obama?

  And you know what? That's a, that's a hot flash.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  And imagine for women, and this is happening, you know, peak career time.

• 51:02Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  You know, you're in your 40s, you know, you're in a board meeting or you're getting off Marine One. And, you know, and all of a sudden you just break out into a sweat. And you never know when it's coming. It's totally unpredictable. And one of the things, the other symptoms that women really find very distressing is the brain fog. Like you're sitting there and then all of a sudden. Out of your head. You just completely lose your train of thought. And for professional women, you can't, you know, that's a problem.

• 51:36Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  You know, and it undermines your confidence, you know, your ability to do your job. So, you know, I say this, and I don't say this lightly. Hot flashes are really important because not only are they just uncomfortable in the in the short term, but they are harbingers of other things to come. And women who have a lot of untreated hot flashes are more likely to have disrupted sleep. They're more likely to be hypertensive. They're more likely to develop bad habits because again, if you're not sleeping, what are you going to do the next day to compensate? You're going to eat more, you're going to exercise less. All of these things independently and collectively increase your risk for cardiovascular disease.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  So that's why I say when I see a woman having hot flashes, I do want her to know that no, this isn't something to say, oh, don't worry, dear, it'll be over in 10 years or so. But then the damage is done.

• 52:31Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 52:32Craig Robinson?

  So what are your thoughts on the on the notion that perimenopause is under diagnosed?

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Oh, that is, you know, at least for menopause, you kind of have an idea.

• 52:44Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Okay, it's done and I'm not having my periods anymore. But the reason why perimenopause is so under diagnosed is because it wasn't really recognized as a thing. You're, you can have all those symptoms that we were just talking about and still getting your period. And so, and you go to, and your hormones would be normal. If you went to the doctor and said, oh, can you check my hormones? And hormones are normal. And then you walk out and go, oh, well, I guess it's just me. I'll have to wait. It might be eight, nine years before your period stops. So what are you supposed to do? Just be miserable for eight or nine years?

• 53:19Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  No, you can treat when you're symptomatic. And I think that, again, we have a generation of doctors that doesn't really recognize and understand that you can treat. Treat when you're symptomatic.

• 53:31Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  But there's not going to be one blood test that's going to confirm it for you. You are in perimenopause when you are having symptoms and nobody knows that but you.

• 53:41Craig Robinson?

  And then you have to communicate those to your doctor.

• 53:44Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly.

• 53:45Michelle Obama?

  Well, that's why we have to talk about the symptoms, right? Because a lot of women aren't even taught to be aware of what's happening with their, our bodies, right? A lot of women don't want to sweat, period, because they don't want to move. We're more worried about getting our hair messed up and keeping the blow dry in or not, you know, messing up perm. That becomes more of a motivator. So if we're not like-

• 54:10Craig Robinson?

  Messing your hair is messed up, that's the important thing.

• 54:13Michelle Obama?

  That becomes, that may be a driver because if you're sweating so much, you just got to blow out. And then you get a hot flash, well, that, that might be a motivator for more women than worrying about being, having a heart attack.

• 54:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 54:26Craig Robinson?

  So, so what, what can we do, men, as husbands, to support our women?

• 54:35Craig Robinson?

  Earlier, later, you know, whenever it's needed, help, help us under, help us.

• 54:43Michelle Obama?

  I, I-

• 54:43Craig Robinson?

  Cave men know how we can help.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  No, but I, I think that having a little grace and really understanding that what she's going through is difficult.

• 54:53Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  You know, it's, it's uncomfortable. It is sometimes that irritability, that little extra snappiness that happens. It's because, you know, that's because it's, everything is affecting your brain, it really is. And sometimes you have to, even when they may not recognize it themselves, sometimes you might have to say, you know, honey, you look like you're having a bad day, you know, why don't you go sit down? I got this, whatever it is you need to get, be it the kids, be it the dishes, whatever. But giving them a little grace and say, if she's yelling at you or she has broken out into a rage, because that's another sign, that's another symptom, that's probably why I was mad for a decade.

• 55:34Michelle Obama?

  But perimenopausal, didn't even know it.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  Rage, just rage, and you, you can sometimes feel yourself and say, now, I know I shouldn't be that mad.

• 55:43Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 55:45Michelle Obama?

  But what men need to understand is that, don't get mad at her for being mad at you. Understand that she's going through something.

• 55:54Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 55:55Michelle Obama?

  Oh, see, and now you just lost a bunch of men, right there. It's like, what do you mean?

• 55:59Craig Robinson?

  Now, we haven't lost them. You're about to lose them by getting on them before you give them a chance.

• 56:04Michelle Obama?

  I was just watching your face.

• 56:06Craig Robinson?

  Just let them.

• 56:06Michelle Obama?

  Did you see his face when he said that? And he was just like, ooh, well, that now.

• 56:10Craig Robinson?

  Would you let a brother soak in the information?

• 56:13Michelle Obama?

  Tell me, what was the soak? What'd you soak in? Let me see your reaction.

• 56:17Craig Robinson?

  Issue, this is just a typical relationship issue. If you happen to have like a response to some information that could possibly be read in a couple of different ways. It's like, ah, there you lost.

• 56:27Michelle Obama?

  Well, I'm just asking, what was your response? What was your reaction?

• 56:30Craig Robinson?

  Was, it is, to me,

• 56:35Craig Robinson?

  for younger men, they won't know regular behavior from perimenopausal behavior because sometimes you all get mad at us. Anyway, so I'm thinking in my mind, how I can communicate.

• 56:50Michelle Obama?

  How many people here went, ooh, I see a lot of men go, ooh.

• 56:53Craig Robinson?

  All the men are smiling because they're like, he's doing it for us. And all I'm saying, all I'm saying is, I'm trying to help get the message out to everybody that that's a great point. Because sometimes folks get mad at you because they're mad at you and you did something and they mad at you. But sometimes folks get mad at you because they're going through something. And we have to get better at being able to discern that. Or at least saying, are you mad at me? Or are you not feeling well? Or something like that. You gotta put it into some communicative way. Like you say, to give them more grace.

• 57:31Craig Robinson?

  It's just not something that you learn in the locker room or on the basketball court. You don't learn that.

• 57:38Michelle Obama?

  And you will not find it there.

• 57:40Craig Robinson?

  Do you come to IMO to get some, to get some grace yourself?

• 57:52Craig Robinson?

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• 58:37Craig Robinson?

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• 59:19Craig Robinson?

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• 1:00:05Craig Robinson?

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• 1:00:31Speaker 03

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• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I'm gonna give you a little easy way to think about it.

• 1:00:42Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 1:00:43Speaker 02

  If you come in and she, you know, and your wife is like on you and you, whatever.

• 1:00:47Craig Robinson?

  And mind you, we are not talking about Kelly, because she might be, she might be going through something, but I'm not aware of it.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  No, let me say this. I think the first question that comes in your mind when someone in there, they're like on you like this. The first question you need to ask is, what did I do? Ask yourself, sometimes you did something.

• 1:01:09Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 1:01:09Speaker 02

  Now, you know what I mean? Sometimes you did something.

• 1:01:11Craig Robinson?

  Know that we as men know when we have done something.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  But when you can honestly say, I didn't do anything.

• 1:01:18Craig Robinson?

  I can't figure it out, yeah.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  I didn't do anything, then you have to at least put that in the, in the differential, saying perhaps this is something, she's having a bad day. But go further than that. Don't just give her some grace and go let her lay down and take a nap.

• 1:01:34Speaker 02

  Say, honey, maybe you need to see somebody, you know?

• 1:01:38Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 1:01:38Speaker 02

  Go see your doctor, because this seems a little out of character.

• 1:01:42Michelle Obama?

  How about let's go?

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:43Craig Robinson?

  That's even better.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:45Craig Robinson?

  That's even better.

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  That's even better. But to let, to make her know that, again, there, we have options, we have treatment, and you don't have to sit there and just endure it. And it will make everybody's life better. Your life better, children's life better, her life better. You know, and here's something that, I think the most surprising statistic for me was that two-thirds of all people in this country with Alzheimer's are women.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  Two thirds, and it's not because we live longer. So that's not it. But it is clearly something about how women's brains are affected. And it starts happening at menopause. And again, you say, no one ever said, hmm, I wonder why that is. We are just now getting to the point where we're starting to ask that question. And I think for if there's anything that I want, you know, our listeners and viewers to know is that for what we do know right now is that for women who have an early menopause, which means menopause before age 45, or a premature menopause, which means you're menopausal

• 1:02:58Speaker 02

  before age 40, those women are more likely to develop Alzheimer's. So you gotta say, well, hmm. And so the current recommendation is that though if you have an early or premature menopause, those women not can, but should take estrogen therapy and hormone and progestin therapy to protect their brains. And we gotta do a little bit better job about asking and answering some of the questions about it.

• 1:03:27Michelle Obama?

  Something I always ask you, Sharon, just because this is a me question. We've talked about this. How long do you stay on hormone replacement therapy? Because I use hormone replacement therapy and there's still a, you know, because there is still the thought that, well, you shouldn't do it for more than 10 years. There are a lot of women that hear that and they're trying to wean themselves off of it.

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  Right. Or you're trying to start late because you're like, I don't want to use up my time. Right. No, not true. You know, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the Menopause Society, we all agree, current guidelines are that you, unless you develop a contraindication to taking hormone therapies, you can take them forever. You know, there is no set time at which you say that expires. And particularly when it comes to osteoporosis. Uh, hormone therapy prevents osteoporosis. But if you stop your hormone therapy, guess what happens? You start to lose your bone density again. And within five years of stopping, you'll be right where you would have been had you not taken it at all.

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  So, no, there is no reason, there is no time limit.

• 1:04:37Michelle Obama?

  It's like a statin, right? Um, which we take all the time, but we, you know, people are on cholesterol, uh, uh, medicine, they're on blood pressure medication, right? They, you know.

• 1:04:50Speaker 02

  If you have, if you develop one of the contr- one of the four contraindications, then maybe you have to stop it.

• 1:04:55Michelle Obama?

  What are those?

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  Breast cancer, uterine cancer. If you have an active, like if you develop a pulmonary embolus, or you have vaginal bleeding that's undiagnosed, that's about it. And even some of those are sort of fungible. It depends. But, um, I forgot, what was I saying? What was I talking about?

• 1:05:17Michelle Obama?

  You.

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  See?

• 1:05:17Michelle Obama?

  A brain fog moment, right?

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  And I can't help you because my brain fogged up too.

• 1:05:22Craig Robinson?

  You were, you were, you were, you were talking about hormone therapy. You guys are funny.

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  I know, okay. I was saying on both ends, on both ends. So there's no time limit for how long you can take. But here's the other part that I want women to understand. You don't get any extra bonus points for saying, oh, I haven't suffered enough. Wait, I'll wait until they get real bad. No, you start when you are symptomatic. And you don't have to wait until you've not had a period for 12 months. You don't have to wait until, you know, your brain fog is so bad, you can't find your way home. None of that. You can start when you say, I am symptomatic and this is bothering me. This is affecting the quality of my life. It doesn't, you, you, you actually do more harm by waiting than by starting because you

• 1:06:15Speaker 02

  get more benefit.

• 1:06:17Michelle Obama?

  The earlier you start.

• 1:06:18Craig Robinson?

  Well, this would be a good time for our question because the question is very pertinent. And it comes from CAS in Australia.

• 1:06:26Speaker 04

  What tips might you have about navigating transitions in life? In particular, menopause, as it's a whole new ballgame impacting on every part of life, psychological, emotional, physical and spiritual. I'm mostly interested in managing the roller coaster of emotions and sense of self. And I'm keen to hear from a woman and a man's perspective.

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  Well, I think you know what my perspective is. And that is if you are having that many symptoms, then, you know, again, see your doctor and say, am I a candidate? Yes or no? And if they tell you no for no good reason, then you need to find another doctor or find someplace where you can get the relief that you need. Because it is, menopause is a total body experience. And, you know, I think that I would be remiss if I didn't say that the cornerstone of healthy living and healthy aging and longevity, all of it, has to do with living a healthy lifestyle. So, you know, you exercise, eat right, have community, get a good night's sleep, cut down on alcohol. That's whether we're talking about menopause or we're talking about cancer.

• 1:07:36Michelle Obama?

  We've got to cut down on alcohol. Now, how high on the list does that have to be?

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  Well, you know what? You got, as I say.

• 1:07:41Michelle Obama?

  Just for all the ones that are concerned.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  I say.

• 1:07:43Michelle Obama?

  Because when you got brain fog, sometimes you just need a glass of wine.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  This is true.

• 1:07:47Craig Robinson?

  To make it foggy.

• 1:07:48Michelle Obama?

  To just clear it up.

• 1:07:49Speaker 02

  You know what?

• 1:07:49Michelle Obama?

  Poof, I can see again.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  You know what? Sometimes you only hit four out of five of those things. So you know what I mean? You're just going to say, hmm, well, I did get a good night's sleep. So, you know, as I said, there's got to be some joy in the world. And we can't let that pendulum swing so far in the other direction. But I think, you know, in moderation.

• 1:08:09Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 1:08:09Speaker 02

  But when you've done all those things and you're saying, okay, I'm still feeling all of this tumult in my life, then let me say this and I'll say it loud for everybody to hear. There is nothing that is more effective for the treatment menopausal symptoms than hormone therapy. Nothing. Some people might try one thing, work here, but that's the number one.

• 1:08:35Michelle Obama?

  I want to tell Taz, was that her?

• 1:08:37Craig Robinson?

  Kaz.

• 1:08:38Michelle Obama?

  Kaz.

• 1:08:38Craig Robinson?

  Kaz.

• 1:08:41Michelle Obama?

  You know, first of all, I want women, us, to embrace transition, you know, because I think that that's still something we struggle with. You know, the broader question was how do you manage transition, menopause being among that at this stage in life? You know, sometimes we view transition as something negative.

• 1:09:04Michelle Obama?

  It's like, we are always evolving, and that's a good thing. If we're alive enough to have transition, then we're blessed. But we shouldn't be ashamed of it, you know? And I've tried, I'm trying, continuously trying, because it's the thing you never stop working on as a woman, as a person, is to try to figure out all that good and not get all sucked into what I didn't get, what I didn't have, what I don't, didn't do, because there's so, there's still time ahead. So, embrace the transition.

• 1:09:38Craig Robinson?

  That's terrific. Embrace the transition, and then see your doctor, live a healthy lifestyle, but the most important thing is get the hormonal treatment.

• 1:09:49Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. You know, one thing I want to say, Craig, before we leave this, before we leave Taz, is that

• 1:09:57Michelle Obama?

  I also think that, you know, the two of us here at this table, we're, Michelle now is, you know, 60, I'm considerably over 60, but it gives you the role models for what your life could be. You just have to be well enough and healthy enough to be able to take advantage of it, because I think this is a great time. It's different, but it's really the first time that we get to do what we want to do. You know, you're kind of relieved from a lot of those day-to-day responsibilities. And so, I want young women and people who are going through this transition, don't dread what's on the other side, because we're good. We are so good. The best time of my entire life is right now.

• 1:10:42Michelle Obama?

  It really is, and that is not made up. I do not wish to be 20 again, not in any way, shape, or form, but I enjoyed my 20s. I think young people should enjoy every decade and not bemoan it, because there's learning in all of it. But there is some real freedom. About this time in life and you just want people to be healthy enough to enjoy it. Right. And I'm thinking about my seventies, I'm thinking about my eighties. Cause I, if, I wanna still be able to do some of this stuff in my eighties.

• 1:11:18Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, it is a journey and it can start by reading grown woman talk. And listening to the second opinion.

• 1:11:26Michelle Obama?

  So what would you do differently, Craig? Or what are you going to do differently as a man after hearing this conversation?

• 1:11:33Craig Robinson?

  You know, I, I think it's gonna start for me where I am going to start attending appointments with my wife when she goes in for appointments, just because if she needs some, if she's gonna be foggy, she's gonna need somebody to, some backup in there to hear what's going on. I'm not the best at that, cause I don't even do it at my own appointments. But there's two, two heads are better than one. And that's how I would start, number one. Number two is I'm gonna do a little bit more

• 1:12:09Craig Robinson?

  communicating as I see the symptoms coming along.

• 1:12:15Craig Robinson?

  Because right now, we're still got young kids, we're busy. It's easy for me to overlook any kind of behavioral changes because we're running around.

• 1:12:28Michelle Obama?

  It's easy for her to overlook it too.

• 1:12:30Craig Robinson?

  And it might even be easy for her to overlook it too. So those are the first two. And then the third thing is this whole hormonal therapy thing's brand new for me. So this is, as always, it's just, it's a treat and so helpful, so resourceful. And is absolutely the reason why you're kicking off your new show, because we need more of this. And you have such a way about you that as a, as, I mean, this could have been an uncomfortable discussion for a guy. It absolutely was not, it was the opposite. I felt safe and informed and educated.

• 1:13:11Michelle Obama?

  Did you feel safe?

• 1:13:12Craig Robinson?

  That's what, see.

• 1:13:13Michelle Obama?

  Oh, let's hold his hand. He felt safe.

• 1:13:15Craig Robinson?

  This is.

• 1:13:16Michelle Obama?

  You were safe.

• 1:13:18Craig Robinson?

  I am trying to be not.

• 1:13:22Michelle Obama?

  I love that.

• 1:13:23Craig Robinson?

  Your bedside manner is the best.

• 1:13:26Michelle Obama?

  Here.

• 1:13:26Craig Robinson?

  The best.

• 1:13:31Craig Robinson?

  You see what I gotta put up with? I know you know her now, so you see.

• 1:13:36Michelle Obama?

  But I like that word, I'm teasing you.

• 1:13:38Craig Robinson?

  I know you are.

• 1:13:39Michelle Obama?

  But men do need to feel safe to, you know, be invited into these conversations and to, you know, and not feel ignorant or attacked or, you know. And it's probably better not to have some of these conversations with your own spouse. Because you might get some of that 1990 backlash.

• 1:14:01Craig Robinson?

  You might, knowing.

• 1:14:03Michelle Obama?

  The 90s.

• 1:14:04Craig Robinson?

  You might get something.

• 1:14:05Michelle Obama?

  You just made me think about the 90s. Oh, you think I'm angry that day?

• 1:14:10Craig Robinson?

  You remember how mad I was in 1990?

• 1:14:15Michelle Obama?

  Well, I am so excited that you are kicking off your podcast. It has been a long time coming. I am your biggest fan. And not just because you are my dear, dear friend, but as the listeners can see, she's one of the smartest women that I know. And she gives it to you straight with a little chaser.

• 1:14:37Michelle Obama?

  Everyone, please tune in to The Second Opinion. Like and subscribe. Get it done. It's coming out soon everywhere you get your podcasts. Thank you, Sharon. Thank you.

• 1:14:48Craig Robinson?

  Great to have you.

• 1:14:49Michelle Obama?

  Always.

• 1:14:49Craig Robinson?

  Great to have you.

• 1:15:11Craig Robinson?

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