IMO Live: Choose Yourself with Natasha Rothwell

Natasha Rothwell joins the podcast for a live taping at Martha's Vineyard African American Film Festival. She discusses her Emmy-nominated role in The White Lotus, finding her comedic path while living in Tokyo, and how being “neurospicy” has shaped her approach to life. Plus, Michelle and Craig play matchmaker! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Michelle Obama?

  I think in my twenties, I thought that romantic love was more important than any other kind of love. Platonic, fraternal, familial. While it's something that I want, I know it has to match this amazing life that I've worked so hard to build.

• 0:16Craig Robinson?

  That's a great point.

• 0:16Michelle Obama?

  You know what I mean?

• 0:17Craig Robinson?

  That's a great point.

• 0:18Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 0:19Craig Robinson?

  And wait. You remember that point? Would anybody be upset if we introduced you to somebody?

• 0:29Michelle Obama?

  What are you doing? You introduced me.

• 0:36Michelle Obama?

  God is good.

• 0:39Michelle Obama?

  God is good.

• 0:48Michelle Obama?

  This episode is brought to you by Rivian and Progressive Insurance. Well, hey, y'all.

• 0:57Michelle Obama?

  See, this is really like being at home, being here in Martha's Vineyard.

• 1:02Craig Robinson?

  It is.

• 1:03Michelle Obama?

  Well, welcome my big brother Craig Robinson to the happiest place on the planet, Martha's Vineyard.

• 1:12Craig Robinson?

  If I had known it was like this, I'd have been here before, sooner.

• 1:15Michelle Obama?

  I've been trying to get you to adjust your attitude and get here more regularly.

• 1:21Craig Robinson?

  Wow. Appreciate you all. Thank you very much.

• 1:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, and to Stephanie and Floyd and all the team at the Film Festival. You all, thank you for putting this together. When we started IMO, you know, when I come to the venue, I don't like to work. But I thought there's no way we could do this and be doing lives and not bring it here to my favorite place on the planet. So, thank you all for coming out and for the Film Festival team.

• 1:50Craig Robinson?

  How you doing?

• 1:51Michelle Obama?

  I'm good. How are you? You're looking snazzy.

• 1:55Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, well, I'm gonna talk about my snaz in a minute.

• 1:58Michelle Obama?

  Okay, all right. You quite pleased with yourself?

• 2:01Craig Robinson?

  I appreciate my sister because whenever we come out here, she sort of lets me run free because if I try and go places with her, we end up not being able to go anywhere.

• 2:12Michelle Obama?

  Oh, for you.

• 2:20Craig Robinson?

  So she let me drive her car.

• 2:23Michelle Obama?

  Because y'all, I can drive here on the vineyard. I'm free.

• 2:32Michelle Obama?

  I'm doing here.

• 2:34Craig Robinson?

  So, you know, you all have heard, if, for those of you who have heard the podcast, you know, we were gifted Rivians.

• 2:41Michelle Obama?

  You didn't know that. It's pretty nice.

• 2:44Craig Robinson?

  She let me-

• 2:44Michelle Obama?

  Makes it all worthwhile, doesn't it?

• 2:46Craig Robinson?

  She let me drive hers around the island and I got to take some pictures and, you know, I might have to adjust my vacation plans.

• 2:55Michelle Obama?

  You should, you know, you gotta make this a regular stop. So we're counting on it. We are counting on it.

• 3:02Michelle Obama?

  But you do look nice.

• 3:03Craig Robinson?

  You like my fit?

• 3:04Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 3:05Craig Robinson?

  Do y'all like my fit?

• 3:07Michelle Obama?

  You do look nice.

• 3:08Craig Robinson?

  This is the Oak Bluffs collection.

• 3:12Michelle Obama?

  And we want to thank Ralph Lauren for our sponsors of today's event. I am wearing Ralph Lauren neck to ankle. By the way, that's all. And there's, this is, y'all, ladies, this is a leather bustier.

• 3:31Michelle Obama?

  I started to wear it without the shirt.

• 3:33Craig Robinson?

  She didn't have the nerve, though.

• 3:36Michelle Obama?

  But it's cute, y'all. This fits really nicely and-

• 3:40Craig Robinson?

  And you guys should know-

• 3:41Michelle Obama?

  I think I'm quite cute in it.

• 3:43Craig Robinson?

  She, she, she's very cute, very cute, very cute. I'm not as cute, but I'm harder to fit because I'm 6'6". I got long arms, long legs. They sent this to me right off the rack.

• 3:56Michelle Obama?

  Off the rack.

• 3:59Craig Robinson?

  So keep that in mind for those tall folks out there, too. This is, this is a great campaign.

• 4:06Michelle Obama?

  Well, the beautiful thing about this collection is that it highlights everything that we know is beautiful about this island, about Oak Bluffs. The campaign, if you all haven't seen it, the video, it's, many of our young people, the young people from the island helped create that ad. And it's a real celebration of what is- Best about this place, you all, maybe you know, but Barack and I have been coming here for more than 35 years. This has been, before, we were the Obamas. And we've lived probably everywhere on the island. We raised our girls here, Sasha is here, all of, you know, this is a special place

• 4:47Michelle Obama?

  for us because as you all know, this is where we come to enjoy being us. And I think if you have kids and kids of color, as you all know, having them be able to be on this island where they can be free and they can roam and go into Oak Bluffs and be in town and hang out without anybody messing with them and have some freedom. I love this island and if my brother gets a little more sense, he will come more often himself.

• 5:18Craig Robinson?

  We have been coming now for the last five or so years and it's been.

• 5:24Michelle Obama?

  Off and on, yeah.

• 5:25Craig Robinson?

  It's been, it's not, it's been every year, every year. My son's here, he likes it here. He was sleeping by the pool today. But no, it's really, I mean, just downtown.

• 5:40Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:41Craig Robinson?

  Downtown Oak Bluffs, downtown Egerton. I'm slowly learning that each place.

• 5:47Michelle Obama?

  Slowly learning his way around. We went on Barnes Road and Craig was like, is that the airport? I was like, yes, again, it's still the airport.

• 5:53Craig Robinson?

  But if you don't come here regularly, it can be confusing.

• 5:58Michelle Obama?

  And he's so surprised. It's like, there's an airport. And I was like, this is where the airport is.

• 6:01Craig Robinson?

  It wasn't that I was surprised. I was surprised that we were back that direction.

• 6:05Michelle Obama?

  It's an island. At some point, you're gonna get back to the same direction over and over again.

• 6:13Craig Robinson?

  You see what I have to put up with? You know, I am the oldest.

• 6:19Michelle Obama?

  Well, anyway, we've got stuff to do, right?

• 6:22Craig Robinson?

  We have a guest for you all. And I am excited because I feel like I know Natasha already from everything she does on TV. She is an Emmy-nominated actress.

• 6:36Michelle Obama?

  Woo, woo.

• 6:37Craig Robinson?

  Writer, executive producer. And of the series How to Die Alone. She's also known for her roles on Insecure, which the Robinsons and Obamas watched. And our kids watched it too with us. And it was great lessons to learn for my young men.

• 7:02Craig Robinson?

  And most recently, she's in White Lotus. I shouldn't say was, but in White Lotus. Go ahead, clap it up.

• 7:10Craig Robinson?

  Now, I have to confess, I didn't know she was in White Lotus because I didn't watch White Lotus. But in preparation for this, now I can't stop watching White Lotus.

• 7:22Craig Robinson?

  You watch it too, though, don't you?

• 7:23Michelle Obama?

  I watch everything.

• 7:27Craig Robinson?

  And she also has a company, Big Hatty Productions, that develops bold, inclusive stories that center around underrepresented voices. And she was recently announced to produce, write, and star in the adaptation of the viral TikTok story called Who the F-F Did I Marry?

• 7:52Michelle Obama?

  Can't wait for that one.

• 7:54Craig Robinson?

  So without further ado, let's get Natasha out here, please.

• 7:57Michelle Obama?

  Natasha Rothwell.

• 8:12Michelle Obama?

  I have been so excited to talk to you. We've been talking about you for weeks and weeks and weeks, and I feel like I know you. I told Natasha, she is now a cousin. It's like, cousin Natasha. So, welcome, welcome to IMO. Thank you for being here. Welcome to the Vineyard.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is my second time.

• 8:33Michelle Obama?

  Okay, when was the first time you were here?

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Well, this is my first time, like, all over because it's with you. So this might as well be the first, huh?

• 8:40Craig Robinson?

  You see how nice she's being to Natasha?

• 8:45Craig Robinson?

  She hasn't been here as much as I've been here.

• 8:49Michelle Obama?

  Well, how has it been? Have you been able to taste any of the fruits of Martha's Vineyard?

• 8:55Speaker 02

  I got in yesterday, so I plan on doing a lot of tasting tomorrow.

• 8:59Michelle Obama?

  Yes, you gotta get lobster rolls.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  I gotta get the lobster rolls.

• 9:02Michelle Obama?

  Some shrimp.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  I'm gonna drive by the airport.

• 9:08Michelle Obama?

  It's fascinating. No, actually, one of the best places to get fried shrimp is at the airport.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 9:16Michelle Obama?

  There's great food at the airport, in the airport area.

• 9:20Craig Robinson?

  You get a great breakfast at the airport.

• 9:22Michelle Obama?

  Okay. What do you know about the breakfast at the airport?

• 9:25Craig Robinson?

  Because I'm always coming in to see you. That's how I know.

• 9:29Michelle Obama?

  One of my favorite scenes in this season of White Lotus, and for those of you, you guys have had to have seen White Lotus.

• 9:42Michelle Obama?

  But Belinda returns, and we love Belinda. Can you talk a little bit about what Belinda is now doing in White Lotus?

• 9:49Speaker 02

  That's right. Well, season one, we see her, and she's with Jennifer Coolidge's character, Tanya, and she gets lied to. And so this is kind of her victory lap. She gets to come back, go to Thailand, learn more about the craft of massage, has a little fling, and gets to... I don't want to ruin it for people who haven't seen it, but if you haven't seen it by now, that's on y'all.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  The man who is responsible for killing Tanya, she's able to hustle a little $5 million out of that.

• 10:29Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. But not only does Belinda get her groove thing on, but one of my favorite scenes, because this is this luxury resort, and the scene where you're having tea or lunch by yourself, and you spot a black couple.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:45Michelle Obama?

  And most of us know, when you're doing something really nice, somewhere special, and you see other black people?

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:52Michelle Obama?

  And you got that, "Oh." We know each other. I love that part.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  I pitched that to Mike.

• 10:58Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  He's such a collaborative writer-director. And season one, we started working together because he's very aware that he's not a black woman. So, in writing the character, I wanted to infuse that authenticity. And when we were working on season three, I was just like, Mike, there has to be a moment where Belinda sees someone who looks like her and almost seeing what's possible for herself. Because she's there under work, you know, circumstances, but that couple's there just for them. And so, just to have that look make the cut, because you never know when you shoot something if it's actually gonna make the cut. I was so thrilled. And so many people bring that moment up because it's just authentic to the experience.

• 11:39Michelle Obama?

  Well, it tells the whole, a fuller story of what it means to be black.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:44Michelle Obama?

  We leisure, we travel.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  We leisure.

• 11:48Michelle Obama?

  We, and we leisure all up and down Martha's Vineyard, don't we?

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:53Michelle Obama?

  And that's one of the beautiful things to see, that, you know, we gotta make sure the rest of the world knows that we are traveled and exposed and we do things besides serve other people.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  That's right. That's right.

• 12:11Michelle Obama?

  So, so glad to have you here. But I want folks to get to know you, know you, because you got an interesting background. I didn't realize that you were a military kid.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 12:24Michelle Obama?

  You know? Traveled around. And I don't know if you know, but as First Lady, I spent a lot of time lifting up military families just like yours. And I just wanna thank you, your family, for your service.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  Oh, my goodness.

• 12:36Michelle Obama?

  Absolutely.

• 12:39Michelle Obama?

  I'm always curious about how that experience has shaped you as a person, because you moved around a lot.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  I moved around a ton.

• 12:48Michelle Obama?

  Do you view yourself as a military kid?

• 12:50Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I'm an Air Force brat. My dad retired as commander at Fort Dix in New Jersey and, um, clock it.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  But moving around, you know, I went to two high schools, two middle schools, two elementary schools, and it's all I knew, but the nucleus of the family that was home. So it really hit home for me that it's not a place that's home, it's the people. And that has always stayed with me. And I do think that that upbringing uniquely prepared me for the life of an artist, because I pick up and move all the time. I was in Thailand for six months and shot in London for five months before that, and then Toronto five months before that. And so being able to move someplace, connect, establish a family, and create memories, and to let go of that and to move on is all I know.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  So it definitely prepared me for my life as it is now. But I think my adult life has been one of trying to find roots, you know, like to plant myself someplace. And I still get a little antsy. But I'm in LA right now, and that feels like where, you know, the roots are.

• 14:04Michelle Obama?

  And, you know, just listening to you, you kind of describe yourself as an introvert, right?

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Very much.

• 14:11Michelle Obama?

  We wouldn't be able to see that in you.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  Oh, I am.

• 14:16Michelle Obama?

  What kind of, were you always that, were you, were you that kid in the family? Like, for me and Craig, Craig was the outside, outside. He was always trying to be outside. And it took me a second to be ready to deal with other kids, because kids were a hassle, you know?

• 14:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:31Craig Robinson?

  She was an introvert. She was an introvert.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:34Michelle Obama?

  Until I decided, I need to go outside, right? Because nobody's here, so let me get outside. It's just, it's just me. Got a little boring.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  You gotta go outside eventually.

• 14:44Michelle Obama?

  Gotta go outside eventually.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  No, I'm, I'm an introverted extrovert. I know how to...

• 14:52Speaker 02

  Show up publicly, publicly, but it is a draining exercise to be around people.

• 14:59Michelle Obama?

  Oh, a lot of people are relating.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I recharge alone. I love my me time. And so as I've gotten older, I have to be really conscious about who I'm spending that time with because that's an expenditure of energy that I've stored up. And so if I'm going to go out, it has to be worth it, right? The juice has to be worth the squeeze. And not everybody's worth the squeeze. That's something I've learned as I've gotten older. But I'm very neuro spicy. And so for me...

• 15:29Michelle Obama?

  Oh, tell us more about that.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  I have ADHD and a little toe on the tism. I don't have like I... My neuropsychologist was just like, "You got toe on the tism, but you're not quite there."

• 15:50Speaker 02

  But I have a unique way about seeing the world. And having the language of that as an adult has been immensely helpful because when I was younger, I mean, I didn't get diagnosed until last year. And so my life up until that point has been understanding that I've been spicy, but not knowing the exact flavor. And now that I do, it's allowed me to tap into communities who are also ADHD and, you know, explore symptoms of being on the spectrum. And yeah, you find the community and it's been easier for me to advocate for my needs because I no longer think it's just a moral failure that I need you to repeat yourself, you know? It's now, "Oh, if I'm in front of you and you're giving me verbal directions, I may

• 16:31Speaker 02

  need you to repeat yourself or give me written directions or instructions." And I can now do those things with a sense of pride as opposed of shame beforehand because I thought, you know, if I were only, you know, more disciplined, if I was, you know, if I paid better attention. So the diagnosis definitely helped me stand in my power because I do feel like all of the spiciness in that whatever you possess is a superpower.

• 17:02Craig Robinson?

  Hope you're enjoying our special live episode taped here on Martha's Vineyard. You all heard me talking about how I've been tooling around town in my sister's R1S, which Rivian gifted us. And I have to tell you, Mish, I had such a blast. I drove around the island. I stopped off at the harbor where all the personal boats go in.

• 17:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 17:25Craig Robinson?

  And kinda showed the Rivian off a little bit and had a couple of guys toot their horn like, "Nice car."

• 17:30Michelle Obama?

  There are a lot of Rivian drivers on the island.

• 17:32Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. And then we went by that hotel that's where you can see the lighthouse. What's the name of that? Harborview Inn. Harborview Inn, that's it. And hung out there. And I thought about going in to get a cup of coffee, but I didn't want to leave your car out there by itself.

• 17:45Michelle Obama?

  I appreciate that.

• 17:46Craig Robinson?

  But the best part was I was in downtown Edgar Town.

• 17:49Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:50Craig Robinson?

  And you know how hard it is to park on those little narrow streets?

• 17:53Michelle Obama?

  Narrow streets, little bitty spaces.

• 17:55Craig Robinson?

  Man, so we were right across from the bookstore and lo and behold, this guy pulls out. And I'm like, I'm gonna park in there. And I start parallel parking. And I'm using all six of the cameras, right? And I'm worried that I'm gonna scratch up your car. And I was like, "You can't borrow your sister's car and then scratch it up."

• 18:12Michelle Obama?

  You can't get the first ding on the car.

• 18:14Craig Robinson?

  No, no.

• 18:15Michelle Obama?

  Unacceptable.

• 18:16Craig Robinson?

  I squeezed that baby in there. Perfect. There's like three inches in the front, three inches in the back. And the guy behind me was waiting patiently. And as he goes by, he slows down and he gives me the old...

• 18:29Michelle Obama?

  Thumbs up.

• 18:30Craig Robinson?

  Thumbs up, like, "Nice park job, buddy."

• 18:32Michelle Obama?

  You think he just wasn't happy to see a Rivian? You think it was your parking job that did it?

• 18:37Craig Robinson?

  No, it was totally the parking job. It was totally... But I gotta tell you, I... When Erin and I have been riding around town, we absolutely see what you see when you... Why you come here so often.

• 18:49Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, finally. I mean, this is a beautiful place and it's the perfect place to own a Rivian because it's family fun and activity. I mean, the girls, when they come here, the first thing they do is get in that car. They go to the beach. They use the, you know, the ice bucket there, you know? Cooler in the front. They use it more than me. But this is, this is the place where Rivian's come to thrive. And we're so happy to have our Rivian here. This is beautiful island, beautiful community. And people enjoy their cars here.

• 19:30Craig Robinson?

  We'll be coming back and we'll be using it too. So we've had a blast this week on Martha's Vineyard and have loved exploring the island in the Rivian. Go learn more about Rivian's full lineup of adventure-ready, all-electric trucks and SUVs at rivian.com.

• 19:52Craig Robinson?

  So Natasha, you, go ahead. Yeah, clap it up. Yeah.

• 19:58Craig Robinson?

  So now that you've been diagnosed and you look back on your upbringing.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:05Craig Robinson?

  How did that, at what point do you think that came into play in you becoming an artist?

• 20:14Speaker 02

  A huge amount. Well, one, when I do look back, it is, it's tinged with grief. Because there's a huge part of myself when I was younger that really felt like I was working so hard to mask the energy I expended to show up and not be trouble for the teacher, like, you know, cause an issue.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  But also, I recognize my strength in that as well because I was able to manage.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  I do think that having the diagnoses now and looking back,

• 20:58Speaker 02

  it's clear to me that, you know, for boys, the ADHD of it, it's external. But for a lot of women, especially black women, it's internal. So I had a vivid, robust inner world. And so when I put pen to page, it was like the faucet got turned on and I could, you know, I would write these characters and I would be able to tap into these vivid, world-building, you know, exercises that I, you know, luckily I had theater departments in my elementary and middle schools and high schools. And so it unlocked that in me and gave me permission to be that free with my thinking.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  And so it really made sense of me as a person, the creative arts. And I think for a lot of people who experience the world differently, I do think that, you know, arts are an amazing place to sort of find your voice because there's that freedom to explore.

• 21:54Michelle Obama?

  And it is so powerful, absolutely. Natasha, for you to share your story, your diagnosis as an adult, as a black woman. Because our community, sometimes we, you know, we don't, we're afraid to own the neurodiversity that runs throughout the entire population. But because of sometimes our beliefs that we don't, we don't want to embrace that. And I think that it's so important for black parents, black families to understand that, you know, our kids do come in all shapes, sizes and colors. And it's, there's no, there's no shame in, in being able to diagnose it, treat it, parent it properly.

• 22:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:37Michelle Obama?

  And if we're not talking about it.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  That's why I try to use my platform to talk about not just the ADHD, but I also have anxiety, depression.

• 22:45Michelle Obama?

  Triple threat.

• 22:45Speaker 02

  Way to go, Erin.

• 22:49Michelle Obama?

  She is an overachiever.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  But I talk about it openly because I think that like, one, you know, name it to de-shame it, you know? And so for me, I have to be able to talk about my experience. And so many people have come up to me, especially women of color, are just like, oh no, I have anxiety, depression too. And I was like, amazing, are you on the spectrum? Let's talk about it. Like, I think the more we talk about it, it becomes less of a stigma. We de-stigmatize it by living our experience. And so if that's one thing I can do with the platform I've been given, I'm happy to do it.

• 23:26Michelle Obama?

  Absolutely, absolutely. You also have parents that have been married for 47 years.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  47 years.

• 23:34Michelle Obama?

  47 years, that's wonderful.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  They're on a cruise right now.

• 23:38Michelle Obama?

  Ah, tell them we said hey.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Oh my goodness, they are so, like, I've done some things in my life. This is, my parents are just like, they're just like, this is the most important thing.

• 23:51Michelle Obama?

  We're gonna take a picture, send it to them.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  Oh my goodness.

• 23:56Michelle Obama?

  Forty-seven years of marriage, growing, you have one of three siblings.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  Four, yeah, I have three siblings, yeah.

• 24:03Michelle Obama?

  Okay. What have you learned from your parents' long marriage? What has that taught you about love, about what you want in life?

• 24:13Speaker 02

  I mean, it's not the entire reason, but I would say it plays a part in the reason why I'm happily single now, because I've seen love that is worthy and I know what I want.

• 24:28Michelle Obama?

  Yes, everyone take a pause on that. Yes.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  And in forty-seven years, I'm gonna try not to get emotional when I talk about this, but their love looks different.

• 24:40Michelle Obama?

  We got tissues.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  Now, you got tissues. Their love looks different now. It looks like, you know, my mom knowing my dad's medication when he forgets. It's, you know, my dad holding my mom's purse while she's picking up his, you know, prescription at the doctor. It's, they know each other intimately and they love to support each other. And it's a beautiful thing to observe, but I do think that when I was younger, I found it oppressive. I was just like, my other friend's parents were, you know, divorced and I was just like, I just want permission to go wild. And they're just like, no, we good.

• 25:19Michelle Obama?

  You got no excuse.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  No excuse, but no, it's an amazing model to have and it's work. I've seen the work. Like, they don't, they don't, they show their, they show their work in the math problem that is love. They're just like, we talk to each other, we have hard conversations. And yeah, they're just wonderful role models.

• 25:39Michelle Obama?

  But yet you feel fully empowered to embrace being single out here.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  A hundred percent, a hundred percent. I am, I'm childless by choice, I don't want kids and I have two amazing dogs and I have a beautiful house that I nicknamed my peace palace and I have so much love. In my life, and I think in my twenties, I thought that romantic love was more important than any other kind of love, platonic, fraternal, familial. And as I've gotten older and being single, it has highlighted and elevate the other kinds of loves that is in my life. And it's abundant. And so if I hyper-fixate on romantic love, I ignore the rest, my life is hollow.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  And so I'm really, I feel like my life is full, and romantic love, while it's something that I want, I know it has to match this amazing life that I've worked so hard to build.

• 26:37Craig Robinson?

  That's a great point.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 26:38Craig Robinson?

  That's a great point.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:43Craig Robinson?

  Remember that point.

• 26:46Craig Robinson?

  Would anybody be upset if we introduced you to somebody?

• 26:51Speaker 02

  What are you, what's he doing? You introduce me.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  God is good.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  God is good.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  And all the time. That's right. To answer your question, I would love to be set up.

• 27:12Craig Robinson?

  Okay. Okay.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  So what, do you have somebody in mind?

• 27:18Craig Robinson?

  That's not your business. You married. You married.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Okay. We gonna be at the airport having a conversation.

• 27:25Craig Robinson?

  She married, even though a lot of people think y'all ain't married.

• 27:29Craig Robinson?

  She married.

• 27:33Craig Robinson?

  Let me handle my side of the discussion, please.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  Okay. Oh, my God. It's Christmas. But I like this conversation

• 27:44Speaker 02

  about owning, being able to love yourself, especially as women, especially as black women, because sometimes, and we could talk all about this, sometimes we don't have the choice to be chosen, you know? And I am, you know, I am tired of so many amazing black women waiting to feel worthy because somebody hasn't chose them.

• 28:10Michelle Obama?

  They haven't chosen somebody.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:12Michelle Obama?

  And I'm trying to instill in my daughters right now that marriage should be a choice.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:17Michelle Obama?

  And sometimes we send subliminal messages to our kids. They could be doing great things and it's like, well, are you dating anyone?

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:25Michelle Obama?

  You know, or you could be conquering the world. And it's like, well, you're gonna have a baby.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:30Michelle Obama?

  You know, all the while sending the message that who you are isn't good enough.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:35Michelle Obama?

  Until you are partnered, paired off and pregnant.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Yes. I

• 28:43Speaker 02

  I do not, and I, I, I do not believe that romantic love is a prerequisite for living your life.

• 28:51Michelle Obama?

  I agree.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  And I think so often, and, and you know, my parents are 47 years married. They're traditional, you know? And so for them, it was, it took a minute for them to understand that like, no, I'm buying my house myself.

• 29:04Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  You know, like I'm doing these things because that's living my life. I'm gonna vacation when I want to vacation.

• 29:09Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  But there was a point in my life where I was like, I remember when I lived in New York City, it was a very romantic thing to walk across the Brooklyn Bridge. And so when I moved there, I was like, I'm gonna save it for a romantic date and it's gonna. And then luckily that was around the time I started therapy. And by the time I left New York, I took my damn self across the bridge.

• 29:27Michelle Obama?

  Really?

• 29:30Speaker 02

  And had a great time.

• 29:31Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  Had a great time. And that was eye opening because I do think that there is this idea of waiting and that you're, you're not enoughness will persist until you have someone else to see you. See yourself, see each other.

• 29:44Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  Like there's no, there's no reason why joy can't be present now with where you are.

• 30:00Craig Robinson?

  This segment is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a brand who believes that everyone should have the access and opportunity to own a home.

• 30:10Craig Robinson?

  What are some of the first that we were able to accomplish in our family?

• 30:13Michelle Obama?

  What were some of our firsts? Well, I was probably the first first lady in our family.

• 30:21Michelle Obama?

  You were the first person to get drafted by the NBA.

• 30:24Craig Robinson?

  Yes, I sure was. And the first to actually play professionally overseas.

• 30:29Michelle Obama?

  Right. We were the first in our family to graduate from Ivy League schools.

• 30:36Michelle Obama?

  You were the first person in our family to live abroad.

• 30:42Craig Robinson?

  Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one.

• 30:47Michelle Obama?

  We are the first people in our family to have our own amazing brother sister podcast.

• 30:54Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 30:55Michelle Obama?

  And that has been an amazing first for us.

• 30:58Craig Robinson?

  That's been a really fun first. That's been a really fun first. And it feels like it's a first that the whole family can celebrate. Because you know, everyone is giving us ideas and opinions.

• 31:11Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 31:12Craig Robinson?

  And it has been really fun spending time hanging out together. And you know, we, it feels like we haven't been together in a long time. And we've just been apart for about a couple of months, which was no time. That was nothing in the past.

• 31:25Michelle Obama?

  And the thing about being the first is that sometimes it can be a little scary. Like starting this podcast, even though we're having a lot of fun. Now, we've never done this before. And there was a little trepidation about how they're gonna work, or people gonna enjoy it. Are we gonna have enough to say, week after week?

• 31:45Craig Robinson?

  Can we get guests?

• 31:46Michelle Obama?

  Can we get guests? Will anybody come and talk to us? So, the first come with a lot of fear, but a lot of excitement and a lot of reward. So, we recommend.

• 32:02Michelle Obama?

  Being the first.

• 32:03Craig Robinson?

  And for a lot of folks, that first might be buying a home, something no one in their family has done before. Homeownership is more than just buying a house. It's about creating opportunities. That's where Progressive comes in. Through a $7 million commitment to housing initiatives in 2024, and the recent creation of a down payment assistant program called the up payment, Progressive is helping people attain their first homes, maintain them through life's challenges, and build generational wealth. Homeownership isn't just a milestone. It can be your first step in changing your family's financial future. If you're ready to make your first move,

• 32:47Craig Robinson?

  visit progressive.com slash open the house to find helpful resources and educational tools for every step of the homeownership journey. Progressive Insurance is here to help you open the door.

• 33:08Craig Robinson?

  So I've heard you talk about, or I should say, I've read you talk about unlearning how to be a people pleaser.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:18Craig Robinson?

  When you hear the ums out there, because there's quite a few people pleasers. And sometimes culturally, you have to be a people pleaser.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 33:26Craig Robinson?

  But tell us how you went about systematically unlearning that.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  It's a daily practice. I mean, I grew up in the church and martyrdom is the best thing you can be. You know, like you can be a needless wonder and be praised for it in the church. And I think for me, it was recognizing that in my deference for other people's needs, in my recognizing and being attuned to other people's, you know, physical and emotional needs, I have to put myself at the top of that list. And inserting myself into that conversation was very difficult. It came, I mean, it got so bad when I was, this was when I was a teenager. I was a vegetarian for 12 years, but now I love a burger.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  They're delicious.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  At the time, I was visiting a friend's house and their mom made like chicken enchiladas and I ate the chicken while being a vegetarian because that's how bad my people pleasing was. I was so scared to be an imposition and my needs are not an imposition.

• 34:38Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  And it was recognizing the importance of honoring my needs and the company of other people, not just when I'm by myself. And I do think that being able to articulate my needs and standing and backing myself has been a huge part of the process. No, I don't want the chicken enchiladas.

• 34:56Michelle Obama?

  Thank you.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. But also, I think there's this fear that if you make someone unhappy, you're responsible for their joy.

• 35:07Michelle Obama?

  Can you say that again?

• 35:10Speaker 02

  If you feel like you're responsible for other people's happiness if you aren't pleasing them, and that's on them. That is on them. And so, it definitely, it's a process because it's like a phantom limb. Even though I've let it go, I can still feel it creep up. But now I can recognize it in real time and really pause. I really, if folks are struggling, pause before and check in with yourself. In the authenticity of who you are, is this a decision that I want, that I need? Before you say yes to something, before you do anything. And I've definitely taken the mantra in terms of like my life in Hollywood, it's, there's no in the middle.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  It's either a hell yes or a hell no. And that has also helped me to be like, I really want to do this. I have to check in with myself. But stillness has been a huge antidote to people pleasing because I'm able to put that stopgap into, you know, being quick to make sure their feelings are okay.

• 36:13Michelle Obama?

  So you are an introverted people pleaser.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  My therapist is well paid.

• 36:18Michelle Obama?

  Newly diagnosed ADHD. And you work in Hollywood.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  I do.

• 36:23Michelle Obama?

  You picked the right place.

• 36:27Michelle Obama?

  How did, you know, how did, how did, how did your sort of life lead you into what you're doing now? What was that path like for you? Because you've had some interesting stops along the way.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. I had no aspirations for Hollywood. I thought I was gonna be a Broadway theater actor. I thought me and Audra McDonald would be best friends. And I just loved performing so much. I went to college for acting and, but I would write my audition monologues. So writing was a huge part of my process as well. And again, to get spiritual with it, I knew from that moment of, you know, walking across that stage of my degree in acting, that I was walking in my purpose, that I knew that I was doing something I had been called to do. And it was scary, you know, there, I was very, very broke in New York, and then it's

• 37:20Speaker 02

  very scary to leave New York to go to LA. But I do feel that every, when I look back at my career, each one of those doors, I didn't open myself, and that I was really listening to my, my creative self as I was, you know, putting pen to page or auditioning for something. And I'm grateful for that because it's a career that's very unexpected and nothing that I could have planned even if I wanted to. And I also had to sort of reimagine dreams for myself because my dreams were too small.

• 37:55Michelle Obama?

  Really? What were some of the, how did you, talk a bit more about that?

• 38:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, you know, for me, I was just like, oh, I'd love to do a play one day, you know? I didn't know I would be, you know, creating my own show. I didn't know I'd be a writer on Issa's show or be Kelly. I didn't know White Lotus was in the future or Wonka or anything else. So when I achieved what I thought was big, I was like, well, damn, I need to, like, what do I really want? And When I realized that my career had given me a position of power and influence, that's when I created my production company. Because I know that I am drawn to, even before I had decision or agency in my career, I was drawn to characters and stories that centered marginalized voices,

• 38:44Speaker 02

  that uplifted the stories that were usually relegated to the sidelines. So I was like, oh yeah, that's how I dream bigger for myself. I create a company, I help other artists who have stories to tell, and give them that platform. And that's been a huge dream realized, that I'm still in the process of realizing. And I think for me, it's, again, pause, taking a step back, and being really deliberate about the things I decide to do. Because time is short, and I want to make sure I invest the gifts I've been given in a way that will continue to yield.

• 39:22Craig Robinson?

  So can you talk about deliberate? How on earth, now you all probably don't know this, but you spent time in Japan.

• 39:32Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:33Craig Robinson?

  That was what jumped off the page to me. I was like, what? And this wasn't in your moving around as an Air Force brat. You went there to do what? Can you tell us about that whole situation?

• 39:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was in my twenties and I had finished college. I was working in DC, acting and working at Woolly Mammoth Theater and Studio Theater and really trying to figure out DC. And I'd finished that and I knew I wanted to go to New York, but I didn't feel like I had lived a lot of life. And so I was like, oh, I want an adventure. And I was trying to go to London and be on my Black Bridget Jones. But that didn't work.

• 40:21Speaker 02

  I had a trouble getting a visa there, so my, my search for adventure moved further and further east. And I know Japan has like the Jet program, which is their big teaching English program, but I didn't do that. I found a tiny, tiny ass school that wanted someone with a theatrical background to perform conversations with students. I was like, well, I'm an actor and I can do that. And part of my hustle gig in DC was being a teaching artist at Arena Stage. And so I had taught kids. And so I said yes to this program because they would sponsor my visa and fly me out. I would have to fly myself back. I would have to figure out rent and all that kind of stuff. And I jumped on it. And it was a part-time job.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  And there's a Tokyo Comedy Store, which is equivalent to Boom Chicago for comedy folks. It's like this comedy theater at the Crocodile Club in Tokyo. They found out that I was like a ringer for improv comedy. And they're like, would you be a part of this program? So I did that part-time and taught part-time. And was black in Japan. It was crazy.

• 41:29Craig Robinson?

  And this, you, this was English in Japan?

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:33Michelle Obama?

  So you did improv, English improv in Japan?

• 41:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:38Michelle Obama?

  What was your biggest joke? What landed? What landed?

• 41:42Craig Robinson?

  What made them laugh?

• 41:44Speaker 02

  I will say, I don't remember a specific joke, but I'm so appreciative of the experience because the audience was filled with expats, not just US expats, but like English speakers from all walks of life all over the world. And so I couldn't come to them with my like funny DC comedy, like, you know, summer intern on the hill joke, because they wouldn't get that. They understood universal humor. They understood when the, you know, the employee has a higher status than the boss, that's funny. So it really taught me about like, what is universally funny? And how do you communicate that across language barriers? But yeah, I don't remember any specific jokes, but they loved it when it was just like, you come in with the broom and someone is like, you know, looking like they're the boss

• 42:29Speaker 02

  and then you hit them in the head. If you exert power and subvert expectations, that was a big laugh always.

• 42:36Michelle Obama?

  And being black in Asia, right?

• 42:39Speaker 02

  That's wild.

• 42:39Michelle Obama?

  I mean, that's a whole situation. We've spent time in Asia.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:43Michelle Obama?

  And I can tell you, you know, even with Secret Service or whatever, we, you know.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  Can I tell you?

• 42:49Michelle Obama?

  It was quite an experience.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  You were a part of my Japanese experience.

• 42:53Michelle Obama?

  Oh, tell us more.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Because I was there in 2007 into 2008. And so I was in my apartment and my dad had the phone to the television to get the results of the election.

• 43:08Michelle Obama?

  Oh, wow.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  And so I was there because I couldn't get it on TV. So I was up late and he had the phone there. And when you won, I just remember the next day I was riding my bike to teach and people were just like, "Obama!"

• 43:25Speaker 02

  "And, Simone, that's a man! It's Obama!" Yes. Yes.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  You couldn't tell me you were cousins. I was like, "Yes, Obama."

• 43:42Michelle Obama?

  That's why I'm here.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  I'm here, Obama. Thank you.

• 43:44Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's why I'm here.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  True story, true story.

• 43:48Michelle Obama?

  That is great. Did they treat you better?

• 43:51Speaker 02

  They did! I would go to the shops and they'd be like, "Mmm, Obama's son?"

• 43:58Speaker 02

  And I was like, "Huh."

• 44:01Michelle Obama?

  Told you we were cousins. Told you we were cousins. Now, how did your folks feel about it? You know, black child and creativity, you know? Coming from the church, were they like, "Girl, you got a plan B?"

• 44:16Speaker 02

  They didn't have a plan B. They were so supportive.

• 44:18Michelle Obama?

  That's great.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  And I was originally, I made drama where there was none. I originally majored in journalism because I thought that's what they would want. Because of theater, you know, majoring in theater, they wouldn't like. And I wrote all the time, so it made sense. And after my first semester, I remember I came home during the Christmas break and sat them down and came out as a thespian.

• 44:40Michelle Obama?

  And they were like, "Hold your hand."

• 44:42Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 44:42Michelle Obama?

  "Oh, baby."

• 44:44Speaker 02

  No, we still on track, Chris. We still on track.

• 44:49Craig Robinson?

  Will like her.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  And they, the first thing out of their mouth was just like, "Well, we were confused about the journalism thing. We knew you'd love to act and we wanted to support whatever you do." And so it was wonderfully supportive.

• 45:05Michelle Obama?

  Has there been a thing that you've done in your career that made them think, "Oh, this is, now we get it." This.

• 45:22Michelle Obama?

  Oh, man. Not Issa, sorry, Issa. You didn't count.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  No, Saturday Night Live was good for them.

• 45:29Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  When I wrote for them, they were just like, they were, you know, fans of the show, so to see my name on the credits, they were really excited.

• 45:36Michelle Obama?

  Tell us about you. Oh, I'm sorry.

• 45:38Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, she's Bogart in the whole discussion.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It's Natasha.

• 45:42Craig Robinson?

  I understand. She's in her favorite place with one of her favorite people. I get it, I get it, I get it. But I'm gonna ask a couple of questions here.

• 45:50Michelle Obama?

  Okay, okay, okay. I'll stand out.

• 45:53Craig Robinson?

  So, writer, actor, producer, which one do you like to do most?

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Hmm, I don't have a favorite, but, you know, Dance with the One That Brung Ya, acting is such a huge part of my identity.

• 46:10Speaker 02

  And I do think, I had this conversation recently with Issa and Yvonne and Jay, we were all chatting. You know, so much of what we've done since then, we've had to write and produce ourselves. And that's just a lot of work, which we love to do, but it is sort of a sweat equity you put in. And so, while I love that, it's amazing to go to White Lotus and just show up and do acting and go back to my, go back to my room and, you know, leave it there. So it's been fun.

• 46:38Michelle Obama?

  What's been the difference? What's the difference being in a black writer's room? I mean, that's a, you know.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  I, I dress. Yes.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  I went to Insecure after SNL. And at SNL, at the time, I was the only black writer in a 40-year-old institution.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  And I remember, and Prentice has told this story, who was the co-showrunner with Issa.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  The first day, I remember raising my hand to talk. And Prentice looked at me and he was like, "Why your hand up?"

• 47:20Speaker 02

  And I was just like, "Oh, I just, I don't..." Because there were so many, it was very hierarchical at SNL, where it was just like, if you're a freshman writer, like, you can't talk at this table. Like, there was a lot of rules that you had to sort of, weren't told to you, you had to figure it out. And he was just like, "No." He was like, "You're at the table." And I remember just leaning back and I was just like, blown away by, like, the openness of the space. And at the first, after the first writers' room, I went to my car and sobbed. Just cried, because I felt so seen. When you walk in and there's already hot sauce and cocoa butter on the table?

• 48:03Michelle Obama?

  Say no more.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  Say no more!

• 48:04Michelle Obama?

  Say no more.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  Say no more!

• 48:07Michelle Obama?

  How did you wind up getting the Insecure gig? What was the, you know?

• 48:12Speaker 02

  I FaceTimed with Issa from Brooklyn. My studio apartment, I was wearing what I call a human mullet. I just was, had fancy clothes from the waist up and pajamas on the bottom. And we FaceTimed and we just connected. And so I got hired as a writer. And two weeks into the, or a month into the writers' room, Kelly was created on the page. And we would do readings in the writers' room of the character. And I was so focused on writing, because it was my first scripted room after SNL. I had no, I didn't have any crosshairs on being on the screen. I just knew that when she would cast the writers to read the scripts aloud, she'd always cast me as Kelly. And one day, she called me into her office with Prentice

• 48:57Speaker 02

  and I was just like, "Oh, Lord, I'm in trouble. I made one too many."

• 49:02Speaker 02

  I'm done. And they're like, they're like, we want you to play Kelly. And again, I cry a lot.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  I cry because I was, I went from someplace where I was screaming to be seen to another place that saw all of me and acknowledged all those parts. So that's the thing I credit for Issa is that I, she, she wasn't just like, okay, you're a writer to stay in that lane. She's just like, whatever you got, I'm gonna use. And she used that part of me and that talent. And Kelly changed my life.

• 49:33Michelle Obama?

  Oh my, Kelly was my favorite character. I mean, really. I mean, was there a bond? I mean, was the girlfriend energy real? I know it always doesn't translate, doesn't have to translate off of the screen, but just curious. I mean, we love Issa. Issa's been on the show. She's my girl. Love her to death.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  She's so real.

• 49:56Michelle Obama?

  She is so real.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  There's no manufacturing that level of authenticity. And I think that I moved through the world with that level of vulnerability. And so to some people's chagrin, it can be kind of cringe to be this, you know, vulnerable, but I very much don't care.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  It's been wonderful to rely on each other, especially in Hollywood, because we can reach out and, yo, I'm, I'm at Fox and they're sending me this in my contract. Is that what you got? No, actually asked for this. And so there are resources as well as just being like friends. So it's been wonderful.

• 50:31Michelle Obama?

  And now you are two-time Emmy nominated.

• 50:35Speaker 02

  Can you believe? I can't even.

• 50:40Michelle Obama?

  You're the only black woman nominated in this category this year. So congratulations.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 50:46Michelle Obama?

  Really, truly, truly so proud. So, so deserving.

• 50:51Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 50:52Michelle Obama?

  So what's it feel like? Is your life changed?

• 50:56Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 50:57Michelle Obama?

  I love that. Tell us more.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  I, and this is, this is, this sounds so like Pollyanna, but it, I've already won. Do you know what I mean? Like, the nomination is just an acknowledgement for my peers that I've done good work.

• 51:10Michelle Obama?

  So do people... Really feel that? Or do you really want to win?

• 51:13Speaker 02

  I genuinely do. Listen, I want hardware like everybody else. I want hardware. Like, that's, let's be real. But I'm satiated in knowing that I've done a good job. And I think that the moment the award becomes more important than the work, I've lost the plot.

• 51:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah. Beautiful.

• 51:33Craig Robinson?

  That's so important in all walks of life.

• 51:36Speaker 02

  100%.

• 51:37Craig Robinson?

  All walks of life.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, because that is, that is fleeting. Famous fleeting. That's also other, like, I had, I did not know I would be a famous person. I had no desire to be. I just knew I, I would say, this is from the time when I was in high school doing theater. I was like, I want to do good work with good people. That was my, like, that's what I want. And that being my true north has got me here, and I'm not changing that.

• 52:00Craig Robinson?

  What in your background makes you that way? Because I'm sitting here and I, I'm listening to you talk about collaborating with all these different people. But I think you have to have a certain personality and a certain upbringing to be a team, a natural team player.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:20Craig Robinson?

  Where does that come from?

• 52:22Speaker 02

  I mean, it, I think it comes from a lot of places. I think a military background, you know, that definitely has the focus. I think, I've always loved collaborative things. I'm one of four, you know, where you're a little unit dysfunctional, but we love it. And I, I think for me, I get joy in that process. And that's just always been true. That's why I've never attempted stand-up. People often confuse me for Michelle Buteau. They're like, you just stand-up girl. I'm like, no. Because I prefer colla, like, I prefer improv and sketch where it's just like, let's all get together and see, like, the best idea wins. It may not be mine. And so, I get, I genuinely get joy from that. And I think that, like, you know, growing up the way I did and, yeah, I just think

• 53:06Speaker 02

  that there is a, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's kind of indescribable when you see someone else light up because of something you did, and then that sparks something else. There's this connectivity that makes it really present.

• 53:22Michelle Obama?

  And especially in this crowd, especially with young people. I have a young, creative child. I think a lot of young creatives, especially kids of color, young people of color, with all that's going on in the world, they wonder, is there still room for this? Is this still relevant? And I want you to talk a bit about that because I think "How Not to Die Alone", the projects that you work on, you know, your perspective of telling a story that doesn't get told. I just want you to speak to not just the audience here, but to all the young artists out there who might doubt that their voice matters, especially as the industry is changing.

• 54:06Michelle Obama?

  And I'd love for you to speak to that.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Absolutely. It's so funny, when "Insecure" was on the air, we were very on social media as a writer's room and as the actors and interfacing with audiences. And, you know, being a plus-size black woman on the show, I would get, you know, plus-size black women hit me up and be like, "Well, that's not my experience." Or, "That's not the version that I want to see." And my response was always, "Pick up a pen."

• 54:32Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Pick up a pen, because your perspective is just as valid and necessary. And I think now more than ever, as I limply gesture to the state of the world, we need to be inserting our voices into the narrative in a way that makes sense for us. It's such a personal thing to tell a story. And there's the quote, "Write what you know." Right? And so, "You know what you know, I know what I know." And I think it's so important for also young creators to know that in their pocket is a phone. That is a movie studio. Do not wait for someone else to give you permission to live your dream.

• 55:11Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  Do it now!

• 55:13Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  I mean that. One of the biggest mistakes I made, I used to not call myself a writer until someone else did. And I had outsourced my power to someone else. So, if you're a writer, write. If you're a director, direct. If you're an actor, act. Shoot something. And it's gonna be probably shitty.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Because you make bad things, but you're, you know, it's, it's, it's a be prolific, not perfect, right? Create work enough that your bad gets good, your good gets better, and your better is the best. And I, I think that there's glory in the attempt, collaborate. Yeah, there's, there's so much space at the table. And don't ever think that you have to get, you know, permission to come to it. Pull up chair. Pull up chair.

• 56:14Craig Robinson?

  This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, who help people move forward and live fully. Owning a home can be one of the most powerful ways to build financial security. But for many, especially first generation buyers, it can feel out of reach. That's why I appreciate what Progressive is doing. In 2024, they contributed over $7 million to help individuals and families break the cycle of renting by providing support, offering educational resources, and developing tools to build long-term financial stability

• 56:52Craig Robinson?

  through homeownership. Their work goes beyond just insurance. They're opening doors. Through their newly created Up Payment Program, Progressive is helping first-generation homebuyers move closer to the dream of homeownership by offering eligible applicants a chance to receive a Down Payment Assistance Grant. You know, owning a home for me made me feel grounded and also set me up for the future. And as a coach, when your life is dependent on wins and losses, it's really important to have the comfort of a really nice home to come home to, especially for your family. Home ownership is one of the biggest investments you'll ever make,

• 57:36Craig Robinson?

  and Progressive wants to help more people take that life-changing step. Learn more today at progressive.com/openthehouse. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Rivian and their fully-electric, full-size SUVs and pickups that are designed for all of life's adventures. I have really enjoyed driving around in the R1S that Rivian outfitted our family with. I can't believe there's a full-size, all-electric SUV that actually fits someone as tall and long as I am. You know, we've done a lot of travel in the Midwest this summer, and a couple of the features that I like are, number one, they're easy-to-find charging stations. The Rivian app helps you with that.

• 58:20Craig Robinson?

  And here's something that's really cool. If you're not in your vehicle, there are cameras that record any movement around your car. What's also really exciting is that Rivian just launched its all-new R1S Quad. It's Rivian's fastest, most capable vehicle yet. Four motors, one per wheel, for precision and performance on any terrain. Engineered for sharp corners, wild trails, and maximum adventure, from distinctive accents and badging to exclusive new wheels, Quad is built to stand out wherever it takes you. So when you get a chance, go check out the all-new R1S Quad and all of Rivian's amazing vehicles now at rivian.com.

• 59:09Michelle Obama?

  We're going to be jumping to the listener question, but I do want you, because this is one project, I really don't know, why the F did I get married? What's the backstory to that? Because that's your next project, right?

• 59:26Speaker 02

  Yes. Who the F did I marry?

• 59:28Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah. Who?

• 59:29Speaker 02

  Teresa Johnson.

• 59:32Speaker 02

  She, I mean, she put up this TikTok series on Valentine's Day.

• 59:36Michelle Obama?

  And I started watching it, but I couldn't get through the whole thing.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  Well, I will say a cheat code for it, someone brilliantly put it on Spotify so you can listen to it.

• 59:46Michelle Obama?

  Okay, I'll do that.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  So it's a nice little like, put it on and go on a walk. But it's one of the most radical acts of vulnerability that I've ever seen because she goes into detail about how she married someone who was a pathological liar. And I didn't know anything about it either. I was minding my business in Thailand, doing Belinda. And my family, we got this cousin text chain with 25 of us. And they put some fan art in the text chain and they thought it was real because they don't know. And it was a cover art for Who the F Did I Marry with me next to Very Chocolate Man. And so I was like, what is this? Because I'm getting tagged in it and people are making fan art. I was like, what is this? So I took a listen to it and I was so moved by her story, not just for the salaciousness

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  of the details that she recounts and not just the fact that it got a half, like it got half a billion, 500 million, like, impressions. I was blown away that she fearlessly was telling the story and still believed in love after that. And so I was just like, oh, this is a, you know, Beauty from Ashes story. This is a phoenix rising from the ash and there's power in that. And there's this beautiful woman who, after everything she's been through, shared her story to help someone else. So that's how we connected. And when her, the rights to the story became available in Hollywood, and this just goes to my sort of walking in purpose, it was a six-way bidding war.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  And my Big Hatty Productions, we're kind of fledgling, you know? There was like the Shondas and the Lee Daniels. Everyone was throwing their hat in the ring because to get 500 million people to sit down and watch something, Hollywood sits up and takes notice. And so I just, I got the opportunity to FaceTime with her and we just connected. And my team was just like, should we connect with one of the bigger pods? And I was like, no. I was like, you know, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. And we beat Shonda, y'all. We got it.

• 1:01:45Speaker 02

  I love Shonda, but I was also just like, this is crazy.

• 1:01:48Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  Is she sure?

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  But I'm so thrilled to be able to, you know, produce this story and also play the role so that way it can also, I mean, it's in line with the mission of the Catty, of centering that marginalized voice, lifting it up, and hopefully helping people at the end of the day. And yeah, hopefully we'll be on set this time next year.

• 1:02:10Michelle Obama?

  It's gonna be good. Shonda, congratulations.

• 1:02:12Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:02:13Michelle Obama?

  Congratulations.

• 1:02:16Craig Robinson?

  Well, the fans of IMO know that we have a listener question now. We have some great listeners that send in some really great questions. So I think we have one that is perfect for you from Sophia in Los Angeles. Okay, you ready?

• 1:02:34Speaker 02

  I'm ready.

• 1:02:36Craig Robinson?

  "As a 28-year-old navigating ADHD and career uncertainty, I've struggled to find stability.

• 1:02:45Craig Robinson?

  Without a clear path or support system, it's hard to feel grounded. I want to build a future where I feel secure in my career and in a place I can call home. What advice would you give to someone trying to build long-term stability when everything else feels up in the air?"

• 1:03:07Craig Robinson?

  I know, that's how our questions go.

• 1:03:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, but that's a great question.

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  I will say, you know, and what is the caller's name?

• 1:03:18Craig Robinson?

  Sophia.

• 1:03:19Speaker 02

  Sophia. Sophia wants that long-term stability, wants that career trajectory. And in looking at the end result, it can get overwhelming because it feels very far away. And one of the things that helped me when my dreams felt too big for the plate that I had was to break it down into manageable chunks, to ask for help, and also not focusing so much on reaching up, but reaching out. And what I mean by that is... All of the people that are on the grind with you are the people that are going to be there later. And sometimes you're just like, oh, I just want this person that's up here to help me. But there's people that are in the trenches alongside you.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  And building that community is so important. That's what got me through my very broke years in New York was, you know, commiserating and working along other people who were as hungry and ambitious as I am. And because their appetite met mine, we could encourage each other to keep pushing. In terms of the ADHD of it, had I known then what I know now, I would absolutely try to reach out for resources and medication that can be helpful if that is something that you want to do. It's been instrumental in changing my life. I think that Sophia's on the right path.

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  She's stepping out and asking questions and trying to get that help. But I think that, yeah, make sure you find your community, your like-minded people that are on the grind with you. Because it does make the load lighter. And a lot of the things that she's talking about, it's like future forecasting, which is like the anxiety talking. And a lot of that can be remediated with counseling and, you know, through medication. Yeah.

• 1:05:16Michelle Obama?

  So what I would tell Sophie is like, try to chill out a little bit.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  Have grace with yourself.

• 1:05:21Michelle Obama?

  You know, give yourself a lot of grace. Be okay with not knowing anything at 28, you know? It's like, it's in your twenties and way into your thirties, you're trying a whole lot of stuff on, you know? There isn't a future trajectory always. Maybe there are the people out there who were lucky enough to say, when I was 10, I wanted to be a doctor, and it was actually true. And then you grew up and you were a doctor, and you actually liked it and were good at it. For most people, that doesn't happen, you know? I thought I was going to be a pediatrician until I took biology. And I was like, let me try law.

• 1:06:10Michelle Obama?

  So I want young people to have more grace with themselves. And understand that life is really a journey. And if you've got some of the core tools of preparation that your parents are telling you to have, because they're right about that, you're gonna be okay.

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, and don't be afraid to suck, like.

• 1:06:30Michelle Obama?

  Suck a lot.

• 1:06:31Speaker 02

  Suck a lot.

• 1:06:32Michelle Obama?

  Suck, a lot of sucking happens out there in the world.

• 1:06:37Craig Robinson?

  Hey.

• 1:06:37Michelle Obama?

  We're gonna edit that out. We're gonna edit that one out. Didn't come out right. It's not what I meant. Craig, what do you think? Craig, what are your thoughts? That's why it's good to have my big brother. I put my foot in my mouth and I'm like, Craig, why don't you?

• 1:06:57Craig Robinson?

  Sophia.

• 1:06:58Michelle Obama?

  Clean that up.

• 1:06:59Craig Robinson?

  Sophia.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  My soul has left my body.

• 1:07:12Craig Robinson?

  Great question, Sophia. Great question.

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  Your thoughts?

• 1:07:17Craig Robinson?

  No, I think you all have hit all the right notes. Now I'm scared to say anything.

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  I will say, I will. I think Sophia's question, I get a lot, and I would just add one last thing. It's making sure that you, you don't have to be perfect before you do something. And I think that that can be such a hindrance to people because they feel their ADHD is a roadblock, or they feel like their resources or access is a roadblock. Do it anyway. Do it anyway.

• 1:07:59Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah, and Natasha, I think you hit it on the head in the discussion prior to the question, is fall in love with the process. It's so hard to get young people to understand how to fall in love with the process, whether it be art, whether it's medicine, or whether it's sports.

• 1:08:23Craig Robinson?

  We live in an age where people want the final product because they can see the final product these days. When I was young, when we were younger, you couldn't really see the final product.

• 1:08:33Michelle Obama?

  Right.

• 1:08:34Craig Robinson?

  Because there weren't many people doing the stuff we wanted to do. So you had to like what you were doing. So I would pass that on to Sophia before I would tell her to suck.

• 1:08:54Craig Robinson?

  On another note, Natasha.

• 1:08:56Michelle Obama?

  You were supposed to help. I tried to help, I tried it back. You did, and he took it back, he took it back.

• 1:09:02Craig Robinson?

  What shows do you watch on television?

• 1:09:09Speaker 02

  I really love The Pit.

• 1:09:12Craig Robinson?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  It's exceptional television. John Wells, who was one of the creators. If you don't know, it's one shift in an ER. Every episode is one hour in real time. It's genius producerially. You have one set, your actors have one look. It's just smart, and it's just great writing. Severance, I'm really into.

• 1:09:36Michelle Obama?

  Did you like the second season?

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  I did, I have notes.

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  I have notes, but I did enjoy it. I think it's such a beautiful world he's built. He's really a wonderful world builder. And I watch The Office biblically. Like, it's my go-to every, like, it's criminal how much I watch that show.

• 1:09:57Michelle Obama?

  We had a whole dinner conversation about how The Office is the foundation of Sasha and Malia's life. And they go to it all the time. They are huge fans as well, but it's a great show, great show.

• 1:10:09Speaker 02

  It's a great show.

• 1:10:09Michelle Obama?

  Any embarrassing TV that you watch that...

• 1:10:12Speaker 02

  Love Island.

• 1:10:13Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yes, girl.

• 1:10:18Speaker 02

  It is, it is, just every once in a while, it's good to just turn off my brain.

• 1:10:25Michelle Obama?

  You know, you need it off sometimes.

• 1:10:27Craig Robinson?

  It is amazing, the smartest women that I am around.

• 1:10:34Craig Robinson?

  My wife, my daughter, and my nieces, and now Natasha.

• 1:10:40Michelle Obama?

  These shows are a sociological wonder, I think. I was like...

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  As someone who writes characters and performs, it is a character study on human behavior. I watch it like, you know, an Animal Planet show where I'm like...

• 1:10:54Michelle Obama?

  I agree!

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  Because they're aliens, right?

• 1:10:57Michelle Obama?

  I agree, yes!

• 1:10:58Speaker 02

  They're all these like tiny symmetrical hairless wonders who are like hunting each other for sport. I'm like watching it like... Yeah, David Attenborough.

• 1:11:09Michelle Obama?

  But I do think we have this discussion all the time. I think women, I don't know. We grew up playing sociological games. Boys were throwing a ball. And we were all like, okay, you're the teacher. This is the scenario. You're angry.

• 1:11:28Michelle Obama?

  Something's going on. No, no, you're not coming in yet, Susan! No, you know? We play out the scenes.

• 1:11:35Speaker 02

  Truly.

• 1:11:36Michelle Obama?

  And reality TV is like real life...

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:40Michelle Obama?

  Child's play for girls.

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  It's role play.

• 1:11:43Michelle Obama?

  We want to know, we want to go deep. We want to understand. And you all are like, who won?

• 1:11:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:49Craig Robinson?

  That's right.

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  That's the airport.

• 1:11:52Michelle Obama?

  That's it. Well, Natasha, it has been a thrill. I mean, see why she comes, Natasha?

• 1:12:00Craig Robinson?

  Glorious.

• 1:12:01Michelle Obama?

  Natasha, you are... You are smart, funny, honest, vulnerable. It shows up in the work that you've done. And I can't wait to see everything that you will do. And please tell your parents that you made them proud.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:12:20Michelle Obama?

  As always. You all, let's give it up for Natasha Rothwell. Thank you. Thank you so much!

• 1:12:28Craig Robinson?

  You'll have to bring your parents next time.

• 1:12:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. You all, thank you all, good night!

• 1:12:58Speaker 03

  Hi, I'm Molly Graham, host of Work Life, a podcast from TED. The most important lessons about work usually aren't the ones anyone teaches you. They come from experience, from uncertainty, from figuring things out as you go. On this show, my expert guests and I explore how careers really unfold, through change, through doubt, through the decisions that shape who we become over time. Because those moments aren't the exception, they are the work. Listen to Work Life wherever you get your podcasts.