Find The Can-Do Attitude with Candace Parker

On this week’s episode of IMO, Michelle and Craig sit down with fellow Chicagoan and former WNBA star Candace Parker. They discuss why self-exploration is crucial in our careers, the challenges they’ve had in bringing up children in extraordinary circumstances, and Candace’s love story with her wife. Plus, a listener asks for help in finding a new career path. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  You said toys, that sparked my memory. I remember in 2009, it was actually President Obama was throwing out the first pitch for the MLB All-Star Game.

• 0:13Craig Robinson?

  Oh, right.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  So he was outside with Reggie Love.

• 0:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 0:18Speaker 00

  Practicing and my ex-husband and I brought Leila, she was probably seven weeks to the White House. And, you know, we met him and we took pictures and things like that. And I'm standing there and I'm like, oh my gosh, because I was nursing.

• 0:32Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 0:33Speaker 00

  I have to nurse. And so I kind of like talked to somebody on the side or whatever. And President Obama was like, yeah, just go in there, it's fine. Like we'll go out here and pitch and you go ahead and nurse.

• 0:48Michelle Obama?

  That's so him.

• 0:49Speaker 00

  I nursed in the Oval Office.

• 0:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 0:51Speaker 00

  Like in the Oval Office while they did pitching outside.

• 0:56Michelle Obama?

  It's like, we got a room in there, just go sit in there.

• 0:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. Sasha Malia, they were cool, you know, like I understand.

• 1:01Michelle Obama?

  Just go in there.

• 1:02Speaker 00

  Understand motherhood. It was, so I always tell Leila's claim to fame is that, yeah, she, she.

• 1:07Michelle Obama?

  She was nursed in the Oval Office.

• 1:16Michelle Obama?

  This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

• 1:22Craig Robinson?

  How you doing?

• 1:23Michelle Obama?

  I am great. I really am, you know? Feeling the summer heat.

• 1:31Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, I got a good night's sleep last night.

• 1:34Michelle Obama?

  Did you?

• 1:34Craig Robinson?

  I slept so hard, my arm hurts.

• 1:37Michelle Obama?

  You know, don't you? Isn't that the thing about getting old, you know?

• 1:40Craig Robinson?

  You just fall asleep in a position and it's bad and.

• 1:43Michelle Obama?

  The sleep injury.

• 1:44Craig Robinson?

  Oh.

• 1:44Michelle Obama?

  You know?

• 1:45Craig Robinson?

  I woke up my shoulder, what did I do?

• 1:47Michelle Obama?

  I know, and there's no good story. You can't say that you were going for a layup or skiing down a mountain, you know?

• 1:54Craig Robinson?

  It's just like, I slept wrong. Just getting old.

• 1:59Craig Robinson?

  And I remember when mom and dad used to talk about stuff like that and we were like. Please.

• 2:03Michelle Obama?

  It's like I slept wrong. It's like, how do you sleep wrong?

• 2:06Craig Robinson?

  I got a crick in my neck.

• 2:07Michelle Obama?

  How's there a wrong way to sleep? Well, when you're 60 plus, it's almost, it's hard finding the right way to sleep.

• 2:14Craig Robinson?

  Oh, man.

• 2:15Michelle Obama?

  But, well, but you're looking good. I am really excited. I'm always excited about our guests. But our guest this time, I mean, the book,

• 2:26Craig Robinson?

  One of the best to do it.

• 2:27Michelle Obama?

  Can Do Mindset, I mean, really, a really amazing read. And before we bring her out and get so wrapped up in the conversation, I just want to make sure that everybody picks up this book and reads Candace Parker's story. Her voice in this book is amazing. It's real. She's down. If you liked her before, you will love her after really hearing how deep and thoughtful she is on a number of different fronts.

• 2:58Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah. It, you know, we get a lot of material when we're doing research on this. So this book was so easy for me to read. And, you know, I've said before on our show that I became a reader as an adult, right? So I wasn't one of these little kids who read a bunch of books until I, I only read when I had to read. This is, this is a book for people who aren't readers. Cause they're gonna pick it up and it's gonna be like us, like watching television. Like it's just story after story. But let me stop and get on with the intro so we can get her out here.

• 3:38Craig Robinson?

  So Candace Parker is one of the most influential athletes of this generation. After being selected number one overall in the 2008 WNBA draft by the Los Angeles Sparks, Parker went on to win three WNBA championships and take home two Olympic gold medals. Since retiring, she serves as an author, public speaker, activist, entrepreneur, and studio broadcaster. Her new book is The Can Do Mindset, which I've shown here. How to Cultivate Resilience, Follow Your Heart, and Fight for Your Passion.

• 4:23Craig Robinson?

  Without any further ado, Candace, come on out, girl.

• 4:29Craig Robinson?

  I feel like I know you. Now that I'm reading all about you.

• 4:35Speaker 00

  Thank you for being here. Thank you so much.

• 4:37Craig Robinson?

  Thanks so much for being here.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  I am a huge fan of the show. So I got cool points from the fam.

• 4:42Michelle Obama?

  Oh, man. Well, I want to hear all about how the fam is doing.

• 4:46Speaker 00

  With y'all.

• 4:47Michelle Obama?

  For sure. Thank you. Thank you. Congratulations.

• 4:50Craig Robinson?

  Thanks for being here.

• 4:51Michelle Obama?

  Congratulations on the book.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 4:54Michelle Obama?

  Uh, I want to start there. I mean, your journey is profound in so many different ways.

• 5:03Michelle Obama?

  What made you decide to, you know, take this stuff? Some would say, you're so young. Uh, how you telling your story? You're a baby.

• 5:11Speaker 00

  It's so funny because in basketball years, I am ancient.

• 5:16Michelle Obama?

  You're a baby.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  It's crazy. I'm thirty nine years old. And when I walked out of the locker room, I was thirty eight. And I felt like it was time for me to stop playing basketball because I didn't recognize any of the music in the locker room. And I started listening to lyrics. You know how you start listening like, wait, what did T. Grizzly just say? Why is it? Okay. You know, and so that was my, I am actually ancient in basketball years. And, you know, sixteen years, I feel like I learned a lot in my basketball career, but more so off the court from all the lessons that basketball taught me and the relationships that the game gave me. I mean, the experiences, the travel, living in China and Russia and

• 6:00Speaker 00

  Turkey and, you know, so to now. And I just felt like it was a great time to kind of reflect on, you know, a closing of a chapter. They say athletes have two deaths.

• 6:09Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 6:10Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 6:10Speaker 00

  And so I felt like I was beginning a different life and I wanted to close the book on that one.

• 6:17Michelle Obama?

  I have to tell you that, um, I mean, there's, we have so much in common, you know, our families and yours. We're the youngest and youngest sisters with basketball brothers. You went one direction. I did not. Title, the advent of Title IX probably had a whole lot to do with just my interests. But hearing about your parents and their devotion, um, you know, just the culture of basketball in your household, the relationship with your dad.

• 6:50Michelle Obama?

  A lot of it resonates. Parallels, yeah. But I also, you know, felt kind of mixed about, you know, it's like, man, I could see that little Candace being hard on herself. And, but I was mixed about, you know, whether your dad is your coach, whether that was part of the challenge that you had, you know, you, you, you had a lot of, a lot to aim for. You had big brothers you were trying to keep up with. You had a dad that, you know, was gonna coach you like the, the guys. How much of that do you think had to do with how hard you have been on yourself throughout your life thus far?

• 7:35Speaker 00

  Before I had kids, nurture in nature. I thought that a lot of it was nurture, which I do believe my parents cultivated this environment. My brothers, the same.

• 7:49Speaker 00

  But when you have kids, you realize you're just guardrails.

• 7:52Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 7:52Speaker 00

  And my parents were amazing guardrails in allowing me to be who I am and who I was as a kid. You know, during that generation, I mean, this is before 1996, where women took over the Olympics, you know, and it was 20 years from Title IX. So my parents being okay with me coming back with holes in my stockings from winning at kickball at recess. And I was so high in the trees, my mom would worry that the branches were getting thin and I was gonna fall out. Like, they allowed me to be me. And I think that's the biggest lesson that I've taken from them is that that is a superpower to be able to be empowered to be yourself.

• 8:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 8:31Speaker 00

  And from a young age, it didn't matter whether I was a little girl with bows in her hair or whether I was, you know, knocking down free throws on the basketball court, beating boy, whatever it was in the classroom. My parents had this expectation of being the best you could be. And as cliche as that sounds, I think it was the mindset that they developed in us. You know, because I can still hear my dad sitting at the table, like, I'd bring home a 92% or 94% on a test. And he would be like, but I know that's the highest grade in the class, but is that your best?

• 9:04Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 9:05Speaker 00

  And I'd be like, but dad, like, mom, I got a 94%. And so that is the level of expectation in everything that we, we decide to do.

• 9:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 9:15Speaker 00

  And I'm so grateful for that because it started with my parents. You know, putting up the guardrails. And so now that I have kids, I realize like, man, they were really good at this because it is hard.

• 9:27Craig Robinson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:28Speaker 00

  It is hard as a parent to not do things for your kids and to allow them to suffer. Because the reason why we are the way we are is because of, you know, the struggles and being uncomfortable and stuff like that. And you want to provide so much comfort for your kids. But my parents were great at like allowing us to figure it out.

• 9:47Craig Robinson?

  Mm hmm. You feel like, oh, I know so much more. I want to protect my kids from

• 9:52Speaker 00

  Mm hmm, yep.

• 9:54Craig Robinson?

  things that I wasn't protected from. And it it really takes an intentional mindset to let that go and let them sort of figure it out on on their own. Um, you know, we we were we were talking a little bit about being

• 10:13Craig Robinson?

  siblings and and what? Talk about your relationship with your brothers.

• 10:20Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 10:22Craig Robinson?

  And by the way, I I I want to say a nice hello to your brother Anthony, who I've worked in as colleagues when I was still working in the NBA. And he's gone on to do great things with the Orlando Magic. And I don't know your older brother, but I can I'm just imagining.

• 10:41Michelle Obama?

  He was just a doctor.

• 10:42Craig Robinson?

  He was only a doctor.

• 10:44Michelle Obama?

  He was the disappointment.

• 10:46Speaker 00

  Just a nice black sheep. Yeah, black sheep in the family.

• 10:49Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 10:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I went to Johns Hopkins. It's black sheep, sheep of the family.

• 10:53Michelle Obama?

  Couldn't get it together.

• 10:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, couldn't get it.

• 10:55Craig Robinson?

  It must have been really tough. And and we we joke with Misha all the time, how tough it was being behind me. But it must have been really tough being behind those two.

• 11:05Speaker 00

  Um,

• 11:08Speaker 00

  the reason why I can do what I do on television is because I had brothers.

• 11:12Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 11:13Speaker 00

  When I sit at the table and Shaq makes fun of my suit and calls me a couch.

• 11:17Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, right.

• 11:18Speaker 00

  You know, and says that my suit coat looks like a couch. And he's coming with jokes and whatever. The reason why I can go back at him is because, well, first, I had older brothers. Second, we didn't have Google, so you had to come with straight facts.

• 11:30Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  You have to, you had to remember, you know, all of these things. And so, you know, or go look it up in the encyclopedia. But I

• 11:41Speaker 00

  I'm confident and comfortable and able to walk into rooms, but also the humility that you have to have as a little sister.

• 11:50Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 11:50Speaker 00

  Because it doesn't matter. I mean, I can remember being made fun of for every. I mean, it's just, it develops. You have a thick skin. You know what I mean? And I wanted all the smoke. I wanted all of it. I wanted to be the one that was at the table. You know, I remember sitting at the table and actually telling a joke and everybody laughing. And that being like a rite of passage.

• 12:12Michelle Obama?

  It's like, you know?

• 12:13Speaker 00

  That's what it is.

• 12:14Craig Robinson?

  I finally got one in.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  I mean, it's like, finally. And then I also remember sitting at the table and flipping the Monopoly board, where we were still finding pieces years later.

• 12:22Craig Robinson?

  That sounds familiar.

• 12:24Michelle Obama?

  Okay. Don't get him started.

• 12:26Speaker 00

  And my brothers never let me win.

• 12:29Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my God.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  Never.

• 12:32Michelle Obama?

  I'm just like, and I was like, it's so.

• 12:34Speaker 00

  Why do y'all do that?

• 12:35Michelle Obama?

  And it's so unfair because it's like, they go, he'd go off and practice a game, like Battleship or whatever, get it right. And then be like, Meech, let's play now. And I'm like, what game is this? I never heard of Battleship. And then he beats the heck out of me.

• 12:51Craig Robinson?

  Hey, it's in the toy box with all the other toys right there for you to work on.

• 12:54Speaker 00

  You all are not right. My brothers used to not plug in my controller for Sega. And so I'd be in there like, yeah. And then I'd realize it wasn't plugged in. Like, that's the type of stuff my brothers used to do. But when I tell you, when I won, I know I won.

• 13:13Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 13:14Speaker 00

  And by them not letting me win, actually made me better. And whether it was the game.

• 13:19Michelle Obama?

  But there were some Monopoly board flips. See, that's what happens when you're young.

• 13:24Speaker 00

  And, yeah.

• 13:25Michelle Obama?

  I used to just hit him as hard as I could in the middle of his back. That's all, you know, that's all I had, you know?

• 13:33Craig Robinson?

  But the Monopoly board flip is here for everyone to see. I wasn't making it up.

• 13:41Craig Robinson?

  I want to get to your time at Tennessee too, because Pat Summitt is, I've always admired her from afar. But I want to back up a little bit to, there was a point in the book when you talked about your coaches at your school believed in your abilities before you did. They could see how good you were gonna be. Talk about how your development went, right? From, from your own mindset, but from your own mindset. Because you were really good, but you didn't know how good you were.

• 14:20Speaker 00

  I can still hear Coach Summitt, I can still hear her say, you have never arrived. And that is something that I feel like was a part of my upbringing without the correct verbiage from my parents. In seventh grade, my coach sat me down and was like, I, I think you can be the best player in the state.

• 14:41Craig Robinson?

  In seventh grade?

• 14:42Speaker 00

  And, and I was like, the state?

• 14:44Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 14:44Speaker 00

  Just the state?

• 14:46Craig Robinson?

  Ooh, okay.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  And I, I was humble in the present, but I was motivated to be the best in the future. Yeah. And when I arrived at Tennessee, I went to Tennessee to be a big fish in a big pond.

• 15:03Speaker 00

  I didn't take the time to think, whoa, I'm good at basketball, or I'm not good at basketball, or whatever. It was just to try to be one of the best, you know, to play there and to win and, you know, focus on, you know, my left hand, get my left hand, you know, my left hook better, or being able to, you know, dribble the basketball and, and, and shoot and pass at, at six foot four.

• 15:29Speaker 00

  I was motivated so many times in my career by the cans. Yeah. That when they turned to cans, I had to find something else, you know, to, to be motivated by. And I was grateful that my dad knew what buttons to push as a coach. And Coach Summitt, boy, she knew what buttons to push. If she told me I couldn't guard somebody, or she told me that, you know, I couldn't do this, I was gonna do it. Yeah. And. You know, I'm grateful for the mentors and the coaches that I've had that understand how somebody ticks. Because it really is the mindset in anything you do. Getting people motivated or getting you in the right frame of mind to accomplish the things you want to accomplish.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  And I never really stopped and thought like, okay, this is where I'm at. It was more so like, I kept moving the goalposts. And, you know, in the book, I talk about how that can be a positive, but moving the goalposts also doesn't allow you to really appreciate what you have accomplished in the moment. Like, I mean, my 16 years in the WNBA flew by.

• 16:37Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 16:38Speaker 00

  The WNBA championship, I was like, the next day, okay, I love that feeling. Let's do it again. So it's also a balance of realizing the present and appreciating it.

• 16:59Craig Robinson?

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• 17:26Michelle Obama?

  Well, yeah, it was, you know, surprising to me when we entered Princeton for a school that wealthy, that there was still a requirement for entering students to have a wide variety of ways that they had to contribute to tuition. So we had to take out personal loans. We got a little bit of a grant from the school. Our parents, even though they were working class folks, they had to take out a loan.

• 17:53Craig Robinson?

  We had work-study.

• 17:54Michelle Obama?

  We had work-study as well. That was before the days of loan forgiveness or need-blind admissions. We didn't go to Princeton during that time. And I remember it being, for you, especially when you had the choice of going to a Division One basketball school on a full scholarship. Right, or going to Princeton University and you were struggling with the idea that you wouldn't take a free ride and, and substitute that for the, what, what was considered the better education?

• 18:31Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 18:32Michelle Obama?

  You remember what Dad said when you said that?

• 18:34Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, because I said to Dad that I was going somewhere other than Princeton. And he asked me why, and I said, well, because we have to pay. And he said to me, if you make your decision based on what I have to pay, I'd be really disappointed.

• 18:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 18:56Craig Robinson?

  And you, you know how hard that was for us if Dad was ever disappointed in us. And it just hit me like a ton of bricks and I had to rethink what I was doing.

• 19:06Michelle Obama?

  Well, our parents had the foresight even back then to know that making that kind of investment would pay itself off. And luckily for us, they made that investment in, in us. That's one of the reasons why when I talk to families, I talk to kids about, is it worth taking out a loan? The answer is usually yes, because you're gonna earn that back more than double, more than triple what you put in. And we've, you and I, we've already, we've always thought about that when it came to investing in our own kids' education. It was never a question. I would think we were in a different position than our parents.

• 19:51Michelle Obama?

  We didn't have to take out loans at high interest rates. But the point is, is that an education is the best investment that you can make in your kids. And, and I'm grateful to them that they did that for us.

• 20:05Craig Robinson?

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• 20:50Craig Robinson?

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• 21:05Craig Robinson?

  And I will, I will preface this by letting the audience know, you, you go from college to the pros. It goes from being sort of a family to transactional relationships.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  So business, you learn that real quick.

• 21:18Craig Robinson?

  How, so what was that transition like? Because it had to be so diametrically opposed to what, the way you were brought up in your family, the way you were nurtured at Tennessee, and now you're a pro. And, and, and, and, and talk about the NBA as well as having to go overseas playing.

• 21:44Speaker 00

  2008 was a big year for, for both of us. 2008 was a big year. What was going on then?

• 21:53Speaker 00

  My transition into the NBA, WNBA, my transition into the WNBA was one that was like this. One night- It was crazy. We're hanging, we're hanging the banner, we're cutting down nets, we're, you know, champagne. I was 20, 21, so I, I could drink. The next afternoon at 2:30, I got drafted into the WNBA by Los Angeles. It was the Olympic year, so we won the national championship, got drafted. Training camp started two weeks later, went straight into training camp. Didn't even get to move out of my apartment. You know, you gotta sign a shoe deal, you gotta, you know, endorsement, sign an agent, all those things, financial advisor.

• 22:38Speaker 00

  Moved out to LA, which is still home today, which I'm grateful for. Olympic break, so 2008, went to the Olympics. I was just exhausted. I bet. You know, it's one of those things where this is everything I have ever dreamed of and more. And I just wanted to be in bed. I just wanted to go to sleep. I wanted to take a nap. Yeah. And that's the hardest thing is this amazing year. I look back and I'm like, all I can remember is being tired. And I was really tired. I came back from the Olympics and came back with more than a gold medal. I was pregnant with my daughter when I came back. And then immediately I went into, what is everybody gonna think?

• 23:21Speaker 00

  You know, how is this gonna impact my career? I won Rookie of the Year and MVP that year. And I was seven, eight weeks pregnant with my daughter. I just can't believe that. And I think it's the fear that every mother that has gone through this feels where you have invested so much time into your career and your craft. And it's the worry of, this is everything I've ever wanted. I always wanted to be a mom. But how is this gonna fit into what I've worked so hard to accomplish?

• 24:00Speaker 00

  There were so many people that were, you know, in my ear, close friends and family that were like, is this a great time for you to, maybe we should think about other options? And I always wanted to be a mom. And again, I leaned on Coach Summit. She was able to do it. She was able to be one of the best ever and still have a child and still balance both. You know, the, I-

• 24:30Speaker 00

  Companies want you, once you have the kid, to tell the story, but they don't want you when you're pregnant. You know, as an athlete, you kind of are valuable to be able to run and jump and do all those things. And so immediately when I was, when I, you know, announced that I was pregnant, I remember telling people and then immediately being like, but I'm going to come back July 5th. You know, it was almost like me cushioning the blow a little bit. And I hate that, looking back. You know, I thought strength was coming back in 50, 56 days after having my daughter. But then if that strength and weakness is taking six weeks of maternity leave.

• 25:09Michelle Obama?

  Letting your body heal.

• 25:09Speaker 00

  Letting your body heal.

• 25:10Michelle Obama?

  Fully.

• 25:11Speaker 00

  Putting your family in those moments first.

• 25:15Speaker 00

  And so it was a lot in 2008. The transition into the WNBA and motherhood.

• 25:20Michelle Obama?

  I mean, I think a lot is an understatement.

• 25:24Michelle Obama?

  You know, I mean, I really do think. And you're how old, you know, while all this is going on? And now that you're not even 40 yet and you think you're old.

• 25:39Michelle Obama?

  Now you realize how young you were, right? I mean, you have a daughter that's getting close to that.

• 25:46Speaker 00

  She's, yeah, she's 16.

• 25:48Michelle Obama?

  That age, right?

• 25:49Speaker 00

  16 years old.

• 25:50Michelle Obama?

  I mean, the, the amount of maturity, you know, the composure that it took for you to manage through all of that in one piece. I mean, I want to sit on this for a second because this is the, the part where I get really irritated at people who undervalue women athletes.

• 26:13Michelle Obama?

  And, and women, period. Who talk about pro-life and all this stuff. But like you said, you know, they, they like it. You know, they like it in theory. But we don't have a country that values something that is so amazing as, as giving birth. So I want to spend a little time on that. Let you talk a bit about, preach on that for us, Candace.

• 26:42Speaker 00

  I will preach on that. When I entered the WNBA, which is a league of women, ran by women, operated, employed, all of those things. There was no maternity leave. So if you didn't play, you didn't get paid.

• 26:59Speaker 00

  We shared rooms at the time, this is 2008 in the WNBA. I had to buy out half my room. I was insistent on nursing because I didn't want to give my daughter less. I, I, which it's not less, but-

• 27:13Craig Robinson?

  Explain buy out your room, because I don't think our listeners know what that-

• 27:16Speaker 00

  So we shared a room, so I had to buy out half of my room, which was my portion of the room, and buy another room.

• 27:25Michelle Obama?

  Wait, when you're traveling on the team-

• 27:28Craig Robinson?

  On the teams.

• 27:28Michelle Obama?

  You have to pay for-

• 27:30Speaker 00

  No, I needed my mom to travel with me because I was nursing my daughter. So I would have to pay for her plane ticket on our flights to bring my daughter along. And you're not going to share a room with your teammate, your mom, and your baby. And so I bought out my portion of the room so that I could travel.

• 27:50Michelle Obama?

  See, I would have thought the team paid for your room.

• 27:53Speaker 00

  No, not at that time.

• 27:54Michelle Obama?

  See, that's what I'm not doing.

• 27:56Speaker 03

  That would be the logical thing.

• 27:57Michelle Obama?

  You know, and that's- So you're playing in a professional league and you, you literally have to house yourself.

• 28:03Speaker 00

  Because I had, I brought my daughter along with me. And that's the challenge. Things are better now.

• 28:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:11Speaker 00

  But they're still not where they should be, especially a league of women. Which, let's be honest, this, the WNBA is so special because we are the majority of the minority in this country. And I say that in socioeconomic background, I say that in LGBTQ plus community, I say that in black women. I mean, we should be the standard-

• 28:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 28:35Speaker 00

  For maternal health-

• 28:36Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 28:37Speaker 00

  And family planning.

• 28:38Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 28:39Speaker 00

  And we're not. And I challenge us to be, because how do you not have maternity leave for-

• 28:46Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 28:47Speaker 00

  For female athletes? And now you're seeing it is better. But again, there are so many ways that we could be the standard, you know, of excellence.

• 28:59Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:01Craig Robinson?

  One of the parts of the book that really resonated with me was your time when you had to go play overseas with her as a baby. And I said to Meech and our producers when we were talking about the book, I said, you know, I played overseas for a couple of years. And if I had to take one of my four kids with me, we'd have never survived. We'd have never survived. They wouldn't have survived. I wouldn't have survived. The team wouldn't have survived. It would have been a mess. We could probably still be over there somehow.

• 29:40Craig Robinson?

  But, I mean, you, you took your baby to Russia.

• 29:47Michelle Obama?

  But you had to. That wasn't like a...

• 29:51Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, but I, I just, I would love to hear you talk a little bit about that and how you had to go over there because that's where the money was for women at the time. And in some cases, still is.

• 30:10Speaker 00

  I am grateful for my mother. Because my mother made it possible for me to feel at ease with taking my baby abroad. There's this guilt when you aren't unable to raise your children the way that you were raised. That's your vision of...

• 30:31Craig Robinson?

  Hmm.

• 30:32Speaker 00

  And she cushioned that. My mom would make home-cooked meals over in Russia using ingredients that we had to look up in our little Google Translate book, you know. You know, I'm grateful for her. She made it easier for me, mentally and physically. Leila, Leila Nicole, I just have to say, she, I undervalued the ease that she provided for me. You know, having her move my first love to the side, basketball was secondary and everything.

• 31:15Speaker 00

  And being able to take her overseas. Again, I think overseas would have just been a checked box. I got over there, I did it. But looking at her, I realized this was her childhood. I couldn't just hurry up and wait and speed up time to get out of Russia.

• 31:32Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 31:32Speaker 00

  We had to enjoy it. So we went out and we did things. We did barbecues in the winter. We did, you know, we went and watched the polar bear plunge where people jump in the ice and dip three times. We went and played at play yards. We did play dates. We learned about the cuisine and the food and experienced the culture.

• 31:52Michelle Obama?

  You had to meet other parents. You had to, she had to make friends.

• 31:56Speaker 00

  She made a lot of friends. We had no idea half the time what they were saying, but we made friends.

• 32:02Michelle Obama?

  I like the story of the first play date that she went to. And talk about that.

• 32:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, Leila decides to do a play date, which I put Leila in Russian school for her to learn Russian and she taught everybody English.

• 32:18Michelle Obama?

  He's like, I can make this easier for all of us.

• 32:21Speaker 00

  Exactly. It was the opposite effect. I'm like, that's my kid. You put her in an environment and she's gonna somehow adapt the environment. That's her. That's her. And, you know, she wanted to do a play date. I think she was like three, three at the time. And in Russia, all of the buildings look beat up. You know, it's not about what it looks like on the outside. It can be a really nice apartment on the inside, but the buildings don't look very nice on the outside. So we pulled up to a building like that, didn't think of anything of it. We go inside and there's like no floor. Like it's almost like a dirt.

• 33:00Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:00Speaker 00

  And then there's a center oven that heats the room, but also serves as cooking. And then there's kind of a bed against the wall. And so I opened the door and she's kind of in front of me and I can't get to her. Cause I don't want her to say anything, you know? And she looks around and I'm waiting, I'm holding my breath and I'm like, they're gonna understand some English if she says something. And she goes, a dollhouse.

• 33:22Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:23Speaker 00

  And the two kids run over there and start playing in the doll. I have to compose myself because I am just in tears.

• 33:29Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 33:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. Because that's her. And it's as a result of the experience we had overseas. Because we realized people are people no matter where we live, what you, you know, what your upbringing is, how much money you have, all of those things. And I say this, that we've been well off, but we've grinded. You know, we would turn on the water in Russia and have to let it run because it'd be yellow. Or, you know, we'd pull up to some places where we didn't know what we were eating. You know, and we lived in China for, you know, two years. And there would be, you know, no heat or... So we've grinded.

• 34:07Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 34:08Speaker 00

  And Leila is just, she just made it better. But I just am in disbelief of the kid because she's just, she's so special in her soul. And she taught me so much. Now, my other two, my, my boys, no chance taking them overseas. I realize how much of amazing travel Leila was. First of all, they're boys. Nobody told me this. I'm looking at Leila like, I got this together.

• 34:34Michelle Obama?

  You're like, I'm a great parent.

• 34:36Speaker 00

  Amazing parent. And then my son, my oldest son was born. He is the one that has made me realize, oh no.

• 34:43Michelle Obama?

  It's not about me.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  It is not about me. Yes. He is the one, yes. Nobody prepared. The girl moms that are at the pool.

• 34:51Michelle Obama?

  I know, and they're writing quietly.

• 34:53Speaker 00

  And the girls are playing with their little horses. And then the boys are like shooting you in the face.

• 34:57Michelle Obama?

  And they're on like a 16 hour flight, just reading and coloring the whole time. I mean, I had two girls, it was the same thing. I was like, I don't know what you mean about travel.

• 35:06Speaker 00

  Get them to mine. Listen, getting my son to mine. We were, I was on a flight actually coming here. And this couple, they had three girls and she had a little boy about six months old. And the little girl was crying getting on the flight. And she turned around, she's like, look at mommy, stop crying. I was like, if, and then the little girl stopped crying. I said, my son would have.

• 35:29Speaker 00

  Boys are different. I was a big like equality, girls and boys were all the same. No, no.

• 35:35Michelle Obama?

  No.

• 35:36Speaker 00

  Boys have never been on earth before. Girls have been here.

• 35:38Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, they have.

• 35:39Speaker 00

  Girls have been on earth.

• 35:40Michelle Obama?

  And we know when we're running things.

• 35:42Craig Robinson?

  Me, she used to say when the boys would come to the White House and they'd be doing what they do. And then she comes in the room and she's like, oh, why are you guys so moist?

• 35:53Michelle Obama?

  They were always damp, you know? I was like, why are you wet? It's like you just got here. They come into the White House. I mean, it's the White House, the residence. And they come in and they were like set five and

• 36:07Craig Robinson?

  Young.

• 36:08Michelle Obama?

  They were, they were little.

• 36:09Craig Robinson?

  Five and seven.

• 36:10Michelle Obama?

  They would just come in and just dump in the middle of, right in the front door, trucks and pieces of trucks and Legos, you know? They're here, we're here.

• 36:22Craig Robinson?

  We're here. Here's all our stuff. We gonna play with this.

• 36:25Michelle Obama?

  And they're, and they're damp. It's like, why are they wet?

• 36:29Speaker 00

  Why are they wet? Why are they moist? And they like smell like little wet puppy dogs. Like just little wet puppy dogs.

• 36:35Michelle Obama?

  It's like, where have you been?

• 36:37Speaker 00

  There, you said toys. That, that sparked my memory. I remember in

• 36:41Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 36:41Speaker 00

  2009, it was actually, um, President Obama was throwing out the first pitch for the, um, MLB All-Star Game.

• 36:51Craig Robinson?

  Oh, right.

• 36:51Speaker 00

  So he was outside with Reggie Love.

• 36:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 36:55Speaker 00

  Practicing and, um, my ex-husband and I brought Leila. She was probably seven weeks to the White House. And, you know, we, we, we met him and we took pictures and things like that. And I'm standing there and I'm like, oh my gosh, because I was nursing. And I was like, oh my gosh, I have to nurse. And, um, so I kind of like talked to somebody on the side or whatever and, and, and President Obama was like, yeah, just go in there. It's fine. Like we'll go out here and pitch and you go ahead and nurse.

• 37:25Michelle Obama?

  That's so him.

• 37:26Speaker 00

  I nursed in the Oval Office.

• 37:29Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  Like in the Oval Office while they did pitching outside.

• 37:33Michelle Obama?

  It's like, we got a room in there.

• 37:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. Sit in there.

• 37:36Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 37:36Speaker 00

  Sasha Malia, they were cool, you know? Like, I understand.

• 37:39Michelle Obama?

  Just go in there.

• 37:40Speaker 00

  Understand motherhood. It was, so I always tell Leila's claim to fame is that, yeah, she, she

• 37:45Michelle Obama?

  She was nursed in the Oval Office.

• 37:56Craig Robinson?

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• 38:41Craig Robinson?

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• 39:09Craig Robinson?

  In the book, but in your life, the story you tell about meeting Anya was so meaningful. It was so sweet and easy to read. It was just like, I felt like I was there. Can you talk about you guys meeting?

• 39:30Speaker 00

  It's crazy. It's, um, we've been married five years.

• 39:34Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 39:35Speaker 00

  And I met her in 2012, just at the Olympics.

• 39:40Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  That was our first time meeting. And then the next year, she was my teammate. And it, it was like a best friend where all the walls kind of came down.

• 39:52Craig Robinson?

  And she was your teammate in Russia?

• 39:54Speaker 00

  In Russia.

• 39:55Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 39:56Speaker 00

  And it was honestly her mind. I mean, we would sit around and talk about Russian history, American history. I would make her go to museums and translate all of the stuff for me in English, you know, and... It was really just built on that friendship. And I was going through a really difficult time, you know, in my life. My grandmother was sick, so my mom wasn't in Russia with me. I found myself opening up insecurities and things that I never thought I would share, you know, with someone. And it's crazy because I don't even, I don't even remember the time that I was like, I like her. Or this is more than just friendship.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  Because in my mind, I was gonna marry a man. And I was married to a man. And she was with a, with a man as well for, you know, six, seven years. And it never even crossed my mind. And I can remember reading The Alchemist, which is one of my favorite books. I read once a year usually. And I've read it from high school because every transition, you see something different in the book. And I remember being fascinated by Fatima in The Alchemist. And Fatima was this, you know, this woman that is everything he ever wanted. But she allowed him to finish his journey and working on himself and experiencing life before love, you know, before she would accept his hand.

• 41:26Speaker 00

  And it's crazy because I had to work on myself before I would be open and ready. And it, it was, it was a, it was a,

• 41:41Speaker 00

  it was, it was a crazy time because we think it was so long ago that it was 2015 that same-sex marriage was legalized. Yep. Which is really crazy if you think about it. No. And so everybody's like, oh, well, this is just, you know, tell your parents, tell your friends, tell your employers. Like, tell, tell all of them, it's fine. Yeah. And in my head, I'm still, I'm a black woman. So I've already got two things Yep. that precede me before I walk into a room. Now it's gonna be who I love.

• 42:16Michelle Obama?

  And she's Russian.

• 42:17Speaker 00

  And she's Russian.

• 42:18Michelle Obama?

  And she's white. Girl, and she's white.

• 42:21Speaker 00

  According to Leila, according to my daughter at seven years old, she's like, Anya, you're not white, you're Russian. I was like, well. But yeah, she, it was challenging, to say the least. And in so many ways, I had to unpack this mindset that I had because I remember when fans would come up to me and be like, you're not like all the other WNBA players. You're, you know, you're straight and you're, you know, da, da, da, da. And I, in some ways, wore it, like, okay, you know, type of thing. And so I had a fan come up to me while I was married to Anya and say this. And it was at that moment where I was like, I talk about my daughter being who she is

• 43:06Speaker 00

  and standing up for what she believes in and loving who she loves. How am I gonna tell that to my sons? And I'm not even, people don't even know about their mom. You know, I mean, she was pregnant with my son when we won in 2021 and nobody had any idea that we'd been married for two years. But our kids, their safety and my daughter being able to do what I say, you know, not, not do as, what is it? Do as I say, not as I do. I wanna do as I do. And I want my daughter to know that, you know, I'm proud of who I am and, you know, what we represent and I love Anya with every ounce in me.

• 43:48Speaker 00

  I'm so grateful for her and, you know, the human being that she has allowed me to work on, you know.

• 43:55Michelle Obama?

  Well, it takes some strength on her part, right? I mean, to, to, you know, to be married to you for two years and not to be able to say that and the fact that your relationship, your marriage survived that kind of pressure. I mean, that just speaks to the power of your love for one another and it says a lot about her.

• 44:18Speaker 00

  If we think it's um

• 44:21Speaker 00

  difficult here in Russia, you know,

• 44:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 44:24Speaker 00

  it isn't accepted still.

• 44:26Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 44:26Speaker 00

  And, you know, her dad and mom didn't talk to her for a while. I was extremely grateful for my family because they let me go through the process.

• 44:36Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  I'm sure they had opinions and I can remember when I told my dad, my dad the next day was coming to our house. So I told him last minute and he didn't have a lot of time to process.

• 44:50Michelle Obama?

  He did, by one of those.

• 44:52Speaker 00

  Thanks, Candace.

• 44:53Michelle Obama?

  It's like, you know, I was the collect call, like, real quick. Why don't we talk about it? And we just hang up, you know?

• 44:59Speaker 00

  I used to be really uncomfortable in conversations like that. And um, I'm grateful for my family that allowed me to have those conversations in the ways that were best for me.

• 45:09Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 45:10Speaker 00

  And I can remember, my dad's remarried and his wife was like, you know, my dad, your dad was crying last night. So I'm, I'm like, I'm sorry, you know, like, dah dah dah. And he's like, no, I just, I'm sad that you didn't feel like you could tell me.

• 45:27Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 45:28Speaker 00

  You know, that.

• 45:28Craig Robinson?

  I bet that.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  You know, and so he's like, I want you to be happy. And he's like, Anya is literally the person that was made for you and what you represent and what you want to be. Like, she's soft enough to cushion the blow, but strong enough to tell you when you're wrong and put you in place and all those things you need in a partner. He said, I just am sad that you didn't feel like you could tell me.

• 45:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 45:52Speaker 00

  You know, and so I think as a parent, it's,

• 45:56Speaker 00

  it's allowed me to kind of step back and look at the way that, you know, I parent. And sometimes it's not the person, sometimes it's you can't, you need to come to grips, you need more time.

• 46:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  You know, and so it's just understanding that when my daughter has things to tell me, you know, it's on her time.

• 46:12Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm, yeah. I'm so happy that you share that story. I mean, you know, we still live in a time, no matter how far we've come, you know, where there are still families that are looking for permission structures and ways to have these conversations with each other. Having somebody of your stature be so open. And not just your journey, but your parents' journeys. I mean, we've had folks on the show before who can vocally give voice to how a parent should

• 46:52Michelle Obama?

  talk about this stuff with their kids who are non-binary, to give them the words, to help them work through the emotions. This sadly is still all so new. But the fact that, you know, that this piece of your life is front and center in a way that is really powerful and real is gonna do a lot for people. So I just wanna tell you how proud I am that, you know, you went there.

• 47:25Speaker 00

  I appreciate you so much. I really do. And I think sometimes it's, you have to give people grace to come to terms with who they are first. So when supporting, and I'm no expert on this. I just can speak from my experience. I feel sympathy for the power element because I think power is sometimes the kid that requires, you know, obviously their parents to still take care of them or whatever. Like, taking that and using it against who somebody is, is, you know, challenging. And there are so many people that have come up to me

• 48:08Speaker 00

  and talked to me about their relationships and, you know, their parents not accepting them or somebody that supported them in a way that they felt seen. And it doesn't matter how much money you have in your bank account. It doesn't matter what you do for a living. This is raw. And when you are going, walking this journey, it is scary. And, you know, I was a grown woman going through this and it was difficult. And so I just really emphasize the importance of support. I think everybody, no matter who they are, need it.

• 48:42Craig Robinson?

  We have a guest letter. People write to us, they email us and they come up with these wonderful questions. And then we try and, and give them some opinions and advice and help. And, um, and today we, we've got one from Jenny from New York. All right.

• 49:04Speaker 03

  I have a question about career and personal growth. I'm very lucky to have found a lot of success in my initial career path. I've basically been working at the same company since college and am now one of the youngest senior leaders at my company. But now I'm in my early 30s and feel like although I work really hard, I don't feel challenged anymore. I'm worried that after all my initial success, I'm struggling to find my future growth path. How do you build a life where you keep growing instead of just chasing one big moment? And how do you figure out how to make the right kind of changes? Jenny from New York.

• 49:40Craig Robinson?

  So we figured that fit you perfectly. So.

• 49:44Michelle Obama?

  How do you unpack that? It's like, and there, and give her an answer, Candace.

• 49:53Craig Robinson?

  But you've had to, you know, I mean, you've had to focus in a lot of different ways. Short term, long term, focus for your family.

• 50:03Craig Robinson?

  I mean, what, what comes to mind when you hear Jenny's question?

• 50:07Speaker 00

  The most interesting people I've ever met have always had some sort of challenge that they've given themselves. Whether it's, you know, to work out three, five times a week, you know, or whether a 30 day challenge, or whether it's to learn the guitar.

• 50:26Speaker 00

  I think there's that childlike mentality that some of us lose as we get older and we get into the monotony of work. And, you know, all of that, all of those things that I think it can be satisfied through other areas. So if you don't want to give up your career and you don't want to completely pivot, I think it's about figuring out ways you can challenge yourself in other areas of life. And I truly believe that I spent my entire career chasing that WNBA championship.

• 50:58Speaker 00

  Nights waking up in a cold sweat after losses of game, you know, last second game winners, all of those things. And when we won the championship, it didn't feel how I thought it would feel. And then you really realize when people say it's not in the destination, it's in the journey. It's in that dash. I talk a lot about that in the book. It's in the dash. It's not the start or the end. It's who you become in that process. And so I would challenge Jenny, like, if she doesn't feel satisfied, there are ways to challenge yourself because when you, when you excel in something, in a career, whatever, you have to enjoy challenges a little bit.

• 51:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 51:40Speaker 00

  And so I think what it's saying, it's more of the lack of challenges. So I think it is about starting something new, being, being a rookie again. You know? Yeah.

• 51:51Michelle Obama?

  I mean, we, we, we all have so many chapters in our lives. But that's not how we're socialized to think. You know, I've said in becoming, one of the questions I hate the most that we ask kids is what do you want to be when you grow up? Because it says that, you know, life is finite in some way, that you pick a thing and that's who you are. And the older I get, the more I realize that, no, I, I, life, the, the, the fun in life is embracing all the different chapters. And it takes some of the pressure off of each individual chapter to be everything, because it's not supposed to be.

• 52:36Michelle Obama?

  You know, this job isn't supposed to be your everything. As I was like you, as much as I wanted to be a mother, and I think being a mother is the best thing that I have ever done in my life. And I always wanted it. Um, had to work at it because of infertility stuff, but, um, but even that, you know, if I, if I put my everything into that, I would probably over parent my kids. I would probably not, I would, I would be too invested in, in the, the happiness they were giving to me. You know, so having something even outside of motherhood, you know, has been

• 53:19Michelle Obama?

  really important because that should be finite, right? I mean, at some point, your kids have to grow up and become themselves. But if you're so invested in it, you know, you might delay that if you haven't thought about the next chapter after that. So I would tell Jenny is like, you're, you're right on schedule. You know, this probably is just a sign that you are ready for the next chapter. Um, and instead of fearing that, you know, embrace it. It's like you're, you're, you're continuing to evolve and, and, and now there's something fun in figuring that out.

• 53:57Craig Robinson?

  We, we're getting a little taste of that by doing this podcast at our age.

• 54:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 54:01Craig Robinson?

  I mean, the best thing that's happened to somebody like me, because I've always been one, our, our parents were like, try everything. Well, that turned out to be my career. You know, I started out a little basketball here, a little corporate America, a little coaching, little front office in the NBA, uh, administration, and now podcast host. And I can tell you,

• 54:29Craig Robinson?

  Jenny, it, it, as long as you're not afraid to start over, you can do anything. And to Candace's point about the journey, that's what you learn in sports. Because we all, and not everybody learns it because not everybody wins. But what you learn when you win is that, man, that was good, but it was so much more fun trying to win. Is once you get there, it's great.

• 55:02Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm. One of my favorite.

• 55:05Speaker 00

  Books and I talk about it in here, it's called Chop Wood Carry Water. Yeah. And it's an easy read. Yeah. But it's about, and he wants to go into archery and he wants to be, you know, a master at archery and he's going through the process and his, his mentor is basically telling him, no, like, you're first gonna learn how to chop wood carry water.

• 55:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:31Speaker 00

  You know, and throughout the book.

• 55:33Michelle Obama?

  Wax on, wax off.

• 55:33Speaker 00

  Wax on, wax off, Miyagi, we got that, you know, karate kid mentality. It's really about relinquishing the results.

• 55:40Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:41Speaker 00

  Because you are literally at your best in decision-making, in competition, in mastering something when you are relinquishing the actual result and you're just committing to the process. So whether it's the process of wanting to challenge yourself to be better, worrying about what you look like during that process is gonna hinder, you know, the future. And so when you're making decisions such as this, you have to relinquish the results. This could work out great, or this could be the worst thing.

• 56:11Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 56:11Speaker 00

  But whatever the result of that is, I'm gonna be better for it. And I think that that's a, that's a lot of people hesitate because they're worried about what the results will end up being.

• 56:22Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 56:24Michelle Obama?

  Well, I hope that, uh, that's helpful to Jenny, and I know our time is short. Um, I just want you to speak on, you know, to, to this audience a bit about your views of how we should be thinking about the WNBA, women in sports. I, I wanna just give you a minute to, um, emote a bit.

• 56:52Speaker 00

  Women in sports have always been judged by everything other than their sport. You know, and you know this as anybody, I purposely wore my arms out. Yep. Because women in sports, it's be strong, but not too strong. Be competitive, but huh, that's a little too competitive. Don't hit your chest. That's not ladylike. You know, I can remember going on a date when I was in high school and I didn't want to get bowling shoes because my foot was a size 12 men. And you know, they have the size on the back of the bowling shoes. And so I can remember trying to shrink myself to fit into a world, but I just wanted to hoop. And then the more you hoop, the more you realize there were more girls out there that were like you.

• 57:36Speaker 00

  And I think that's what the WNBA has done in a nutshell, is that it has made it okay to be yourself. It has made it okay to be competitive and talk junk and get up in somebody's face and be empathetic and all of those things. And I think society is ready for that, more so as a result of the WNBA. You look at leadership, it comes in all shapes, sizes, fortunately and unfortunately.

• 58:06Speaker 00

  And women weren't considered their tone or their like, but where are we gravitating to? Empathy, care, love, all of these things that women innately are. And it was society, I feel like in a way, holding women's sports back. And that, you know, it wasn't cool to wear women's sneakers. It wasn't cool to put women on video games. It was, you know, it was all these things that women can't do. When you actually look at the numbers and it's like, women are the ones that are buying in the household. They're the ones that are spending the money and have the purchasing power.

• 58:44Speaker 00

  So now it looks stupid, but at the same time, it is still a challenge. You know, it is still, there were so many times where young dads didn't want, you know, the girls to grow up and sweat and have muscles and things like that. And it's like, now I'm purple soul with it. Like as a kid, I hid my, you know, I hid my, I hid my muscles, I hid, you know, all those things. And now it's like, I'm proud because I don't think there's one definition in what being a woman is, and especially a female athlete. So with the floor, I will say, there's a bunch of eyeballs on women's sports right now, rightfully so. It should be in dollars and marketing, things like that.

• 59:27Speaker 00

  I hope to empower and uplift the retired female athletes in the boardrooms, at the cap tables. Because as you all know, you can work as hard as you want, but it's who you know in some places.

• 59:46Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 59:47Speaker 00

  And that's why it's so difficult sometime to get your foot in the door. And so I just, you know, it's invaluable, the amount of qualities that you develop as a female athlete. And I think we're well-equipped, but it's just the problem is we're in our 30s, 30s, late 30s, entering into corporate America with less zeros on the end of our checks. And so I just encourage those out there to like, seek out female athletes. Like, I think empower especially the retired athletes that have the skillset. They just need an opportunity.

• 1:00:22Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. Well, you are a phenomenal representation. You really are. You are, you are an amazing woman. And I am grateful that you have shared your journey. I mean, we've only touched on it. I mean, folks really do.

• 1:00:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:41Michelle Obama?

  You need to buy the Can Do mindset. We didn't even get into the title because Can Do became your name that your, your parents gave you. And it's an acronym for a whole lot of, you may want it, it's community.

• 1:00:56Speaker 00

  Meaning authenticity, navigating negativity, understanding the importance of the dash, and creating and, creating and seizing opportunity.

• 1:01:05Michelle Obama?

  And there are so many gems. I mean, I started writing down quotes and I was like, well, I'm just gonna be reading the book in this interview if I wrote down everything that was a gem. You are a gift. And I am so glad that you have found your next chapter and will continue, because you're just beginning. Because guess what, Candace? You are a baby.

• 1:01:32Speaker 00

  Tell that to my teammates, okay? Because I am a dinosaur.

• 1:01:37Michelle Obama?

  Tell them. You are a baby. And we hope to get you back because again, we only scratched the surface.

• 1:01:45Speaker 00

  I appreciate you all so much. I am an avid listener and you all just have truly inspired me.

• 1:01:55Speaker 00

  I am inspired by all that you have done and accomplished. But I think this is, this is unbelievable. No, it is. You know, like to see brother and sister and, you know, I think it, sometimes we go through life. I'm leaving tonight, actually, to go to my brother's 50th. He's doing it in Mykonos. And so I'm leaving tonight and we're going to go celebrate. And I think over this last year, I've really tried to be intentional of celebrating the big and the little moments. And so I think that this is, this is super special and you all should. Celebrate it because I mean, you guys give the listeners what they want, but also the amount of time that you're able to spend with your siblings.

• 1:02:36Michelle Obama?

  Oh, it's the best. It's the best. Good stuff. Even though he still teases me and I want to throw the Monopoly board.

• 1:02:43Speaker 00

  And you want to hit him in the back.

• 1:02:44Michelle Obama?

  She does. Want to hit me right in the back.

• 1:02:49Michelle Obama?

  Well, give your family our best.

• 1:02:51Speaker 00

  I appreciate you so much.

• 1:02:52Michelle Obama?

  Tell your brother happy birthday. Happy birthday. He's a baby too.

• 1:02:55Speaker 00

  Big 5-0, it's crazy.

• 1:02:57Michelle Obama?

  Big 5-0. Well, good luck to you and everything you do.

• 1:03:01Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:03:01Michelle Obama?

  Thanks.

• 1:03:05Craig Robinson?

  Thanks again to our friends at Progressive Insurance for sponsoring this episode. For more information, visit progressive.com slash open the house.

• 1:03:25Speaker 04

  I'm Emma Grede, host of Aspire with Emma Grede, the podcast where I sit down with people who don't just dream big, they build big. If you love Michelle and Craig on IMO, just wait until you hear their episode on my show. Michelle told me about the moment at 26 when she lost her father and her best friend in the same year. It made her walk away from her corporate law career to figure out her why. That's the kind of conversation you get on Aspire. We talk about mindset, ambition, and doing the work that actually moves the needle. So if you're ready to raise your standards and take charge of the life you're building, Aspire is where you start. Follow and listen to Aspire with me, Emma Greed, available wherever you get your podcasts.