Embracing a New Era with H.E.R.

Grammy-award H. E. R. joins the show to talk about her new DreamWorks animation film, Forgotten Island, celebrating Filipino culture and what it means to see those stories represented on screen. She reflects on growing up Filipino-American, getting discovered at a young age, and navigating the music industry while learning the business as a young woman. In this episode: Dr. Kathleen Jordan, Chief Medical Officer, of Midi Health. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Suddenly I became a teenager and I had feelings. And you know, I had things to talk about. And I was feeling the teenage angst and I was like having crushes and like getting my heart broken and it's like, you know. You, you were allowed to go on a date by then? No. To even get your heart crushed? Not really. You weren't supposed to be getting your heart crushed, but you were. But I was, I was.

• 0:32Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance and Midi Health.

• 0:38Craig Robinson?

  How are you?

• 0:38Speaker 00

  Hi Craig, I'm good.

• 0:41Craig Robinson?

  Hi Michelle.

• 0:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, we're, we're here, we're back.

• 0:44Craig Robinson?

  We are, we are back.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  We got more great stuff to do, more great people to talk to.

• 0:49Craig Robinson?

  I'm energized, I'm energized. You know, I have to say though about LA.

• 0:53Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 0:54Craig Robinson?

  I usually don't have allergic reactions, but when I come to LA, my nose starts running and I saw it often. It's really interesting.

• 1:01Speaker 00

  Now you see what I go through, right?

• 1:02Craig Robinson?

  I do, I do.

• 1:03Speaker 00

  It's like everywhere I go, I have a runny nose. I was known, I was the allergy kid growing up. It was horrible, but it got me out of yard work.

• 1:12Craig Robinson?

  So this, it got my sister out of doing yard work because every time she'd go out there, it would be like, itchy, itchy.

• 1:20Speaker 00

  And it would be that, those, that sneezing attack.

• 1:23Craig Robinson?

  And your eyes would be so red and runny.

• 1:26Speaker 00

  And mom would just say, go back in the house.

• 1:28Craig Robinson?

  Go back inside and I'm out there pulling weeds.

• 1:30Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:31Craig Robinson?

  And if you saw our backyard, it was like maybe eight weeds back there.

• 1:35Speaker 00

  No, but you know, when it, after the spring, there would be all this growth in the back, right? And it'd be cutting that stuff down and.

• 1:43Craig Robinson?

  I'm making it sound like we had a back 40, but it, we had like a.

• 1:46Speaker 00

  For sure, it was a city backyard. I mean, but it was still, you know, it was still full of green things that made me sneeze.

• 1:53Craig Robinson?

  And you never had to cut the grass, right?

• 1:55Speaker 00

  Oh my God, that was your job.

• 1:57Craig Robinson?

  No, I was thinking after I left, but no.

• 1:59Speaker 00

  Anywho, we, we digress.

• 2:01Craig Robinson?

  We do, we do.

• 2:02Speaker 00

  We have a really great conversation as we always do.

• 2:07Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 2:08Speaker 00

  One of my favorite little people, no, she's a grown woman, but to me, she's a,

• 2:13Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 2:14Speaker 00

  She's a baby out in these streets, living her life, doing some good things.

• 2:19Craig Robinson?

  So I, and you know, I, you have known her, this is my first time meeting her. I didn't even get a chance to meet her at Barack's birthday party because it was so hectic, but she performed at the birthday party and my younger boys absolutely love her music. So, which is, which is interesting, you know, because they're more, um, they're, they're like 16 and 14.

• 2:42Speaker 00

  Uh, hers music is universal, all ages, you know, she's just that talented. Um, but why don't we do a proper introduction and get her out here?

• 2:52Craig Robinson?

  Get her out here. Her is a five-time Grammy Award-winning, Academy Award-winning, and Emmy Award-winning musician, actor, director, and producer. She is best known for her Grammy Award-winning musical, Project Her. She has starred in movies like The Color Purple and she will next be heard as the voice of Joe in the DreamWorks animated movie Forgotten Island.

• 3:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a good one.

• 3:20Craig Robinson?

  So without further ado.

• 3:22Speaker 00

  Ladies and gentlemen, her.

• 3:25Craig Robinson?

  It feels like we should have music, I'm sorry.

• 3:30Craig Robinson?

  So good to see you all.

• 3:33Speaker 00

  Welcome to IMO.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  You know, I'm loving the super curls.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 3:40Speaker 00

  Love them, they look so good.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 3:42Speaker 00

  So good. You've been doing that lately?

• 3:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, this is me. I'm unmasked, you know, I don't have glasses on, like, this is me.

• 3:49Craig Robinson?

  I was thinking about wearing my sunglasses today and now.

• 3:53Speaker 00

  It's like, that's old, that's old news. Gab is out here in these streets now. How does, how does it feel sort of unmasking? I know you've, you know, you've been out here as you for a while. And I know that transition was a little scary for you too.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, and still is. And I, I haven't released a project in a really long time. So I feel like I haven't fully thrusted myself into that era and really got to show people what becoming, no pun intended, has looked like for me. And um, I'm just excited, like it excites me more than it scares me. Um, but I just feel like a new grounding and like confidence in myself and who I am, aside from what I have to offer to the world. And like, that is like a whole different level of me, you know? And um, the curls are just part of that. I feel like it's a symbol for that.

• 4:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:48Craig Robinson?

  Ooh, okay, okay. Now you guys, I was just saying, you guys know each other.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:54Craig Robinson?

  How did that come about? Cause I'm, I, why don't I know you? I'm trying to figure that out.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  I know, we're a little late to the party.

• 5:01Speaker 00

  You don't be out in these streets enough.

• 5:03Craig Robinson?

  Please, more than you.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  Where do we, where do we first, well, it's, there've been a bunch of, you know, cross-sections. Well, what's your memory of our first meeting? Cause it feels like I've, it's been a lot.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally. I know, I was even trying to think the first time. I feel like I've known you for so long now, but uh, there was like a Zoom or something. It was like a video call, like over the pandemic about the show, um, that I did the, the song for, um, the song Change. And it was like this beautiful animated like moment for um, uh, we the people. Yeah, and that was really cool.

• 5:41Speaker 00

  And then we had a great conversation when, was it The Light or Becoming came out?

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  It was The Light, um, uh, on Revolt. And that was a really beautiful conversation. It was Tina Knowles and Kelly Rowland and uh, Angie Martinez, who else was there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that was like the first time I really got to look into your eyes and say, what's going on in there?

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was really special. You, you have no idea what that conversation did for me. Like a lot of the transition I was going through and just like being around so many powerful women, especially in an industry full of like a lot of men. It was so refreshing. You have no idea. Like it really, it, it sort of like catapulted me into finding my kitchen table and you know, just like doing this like outreach. I think artists like were isolated a lot.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's it. We talked about like how surprising that is.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 6:42Craig Robinson?

  What, what do you think the reason is you guys don't colla, not collaborate, but sort of fellowship?

• 6:47Speaker 02

  Socially collaborate, right?

• 6:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:49Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 6:50Speaker 00

  It's a combination of things, I think. Um, I, I feel like, you know, it, yeah, I don't want to speak negatively because I know there's, there's so many layers to it, but I think for me at least, I've found that like, when you're just in the studio and you're going, going, going, and the only time you see people is like backstage at the award shows or, you know, you never really get a moment. And those are really artificial, crazy, not, you know, people think those shows are great, you know, oh, everybody's hanging out, but it's just a zoo. Yeah, it is. It's crazy. Yeah, so, so yeah, that's not a place to socialize, you know? Totally.

• 7:32Craig Robinson?

  Is it, do you, do you feel like it, and I don't want you to say negative, if you go negative, if you don't want to, but does it feel like competition a little or?

• 7:41Speaker 00

  There's always going to be a layer of that, but I, I don't feel that necessarily for me. I think that honestly, there is a lot of people who, you know, uh, someone told me the other day, artists and, and creatives were sometimes a controlled and contained substance, you know, that it, it benefits a lot of people who are in the music business to, to, you know, oh, don't worry, we got it, we got you, don't worry, don't talk, like we'll handle, you know, and, and you become sort of um, insulated, you know, and, and,

• 8:21Speaker 00

  and, and isolated into this, this island of people who are sort of filtering.

• 8:27Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 8:27Speaker 00

  And that benefits a lot of people in the business, you know, because it means more control over the, the thing. And sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's protective, it's a protective layer.

• 8:39Craig Robinson?

  I was just thinking about that because you started so young.

• 8:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:42Craig Robinson?

  That that probably was helpful to start with.

• 8:45Speaker 00

  Totally. I'm so grateful for that, but um, it definitely uh, became a little bit Princess Locked in the Tower vibes a little bit, you know, and I think. Let me out, y'all. Yeah, yeah. I want a friend.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, it definitely, it gave that. And, you know, I think the glasses even, you know, taking them off has made me feel even more connected to people. But, um, yeah, anyway, I mean, I do think that now I'm in a place of just like talking to people and realizing how it's crazy how similar our experiences are. Even if we're completely different artists, completely different, you know, journeys. Like, there are so many similarities. Like, I've had the privilege of talking to a lot of different women, artists. Even just in the past few months, the past few years, like I said, since our talk.

• 9:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  And it was like, oh, my gosh, girl, you went through that too? Or you felt this too? Oh, man, I wish we would have, you know, reached out to each other or we would have talked about it. And, and so, um, it's been a really great eye-opening experience.

• 9:49Speaker 00

  And you also, you guys, you know, when you're an artist, you're often, and as gifted as you are, it is, it's, you're starting your career at a time when you should, you would normally be flexing and learning that social, those social tools.

• 10:04Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 10:05Speaker 00

  We talked about that. It's like, you didn't have a regular high school experience. You didn't have a college experience. And that's, those are the beginnings of

• 10:14Craig Robinson?

  That's the time when you do that, yeah.

• 10:15Speaker 00

  Where you just start learning, oh, I'm in my dorm. How am I gonna figure out what to do? I gotta make a new friend. I've gotta pick up the phone. I've gotta walk across the cafeteria. And those are muscles, you know? It's like, so, you know, you play every instrument under the sun. Your voice is on point. But there's that, there's the practice of the, the comfort level of reaching out to other people. And I'm so glad for you that you're starting to, to do that. Especially when it comes to women. We need those conversations, so.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  So powerful what you're saying because, you know, that just makes me think about, especially when you're young in the industry and you're learning and you're like, this is so new. And there are people who have been in the music industry for a long time. And a lot of times what happens is you start to think like, oh, these are the professionals. I don't know anything. And then you start quieting your instincts or your inner voice and distrusting that and leaning on the quote unquote professionals. But at the end of the day, we're all trying to figure it out, you know?

• 11:26Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Like, I think knowing that there's value to your newness and your perspective, no matter how much experience you have. And like, learning, you know, how to, like you said, exercise that muscle of speaking up and, you know, asking questions and then discerning like what, what you're receiving. You know what I mean? And, uh, not outsourcing your stuff all the time. You know what I mean? Like, really trusting your inner voice. Like, that has been my whole journey, I think, the past few years. It's like, I am now the professional.

• 12:02Speaker 00

  You sure are.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  And I've, I've learned a lot, but I'm also always learning and always a student. But at the same time, like, my perspective is so important and valuable. And there's always gonna be someone who has experience more, knows more, quote unquote. But that's not what it's really about.

• 12:17Speaker 00

  Not at all.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  So, um, my favorite word right now is autonomy. Having autonomy over my life and my career. And, you know, keeping things for myself, like, and, and really, uh, keeping my own peace and center and like, doing the things that give me that and surrounding myself with people who respect that and honor that, you know? And also learning to set those boundaries and honor my voice.

• 12:42Speaker 00

  Have you fired anybody yet?

• 12:44Craig Robinson?

  Ooh, we're trying to not be negative.

• 12:46Speaker 00

  No, but I'm just saying, you don't have the same names, but that's also a part of create, you know? It's like, that's a big move, right? Especially when you're young and you, when you start doing that and you look and go, you're not working for me. And so I'm just wondering, have you done that yet?

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Yes, I have.

• 13:06Speaker 00

  There you go, girl. And that was, it wasn't fun.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  It was not fun. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life, to be honest with you. Like, I, such a great question. But no, I honestly, I feel like artists, we sometimes, especially in the beginning, people will make you think you work for them.

• 13:26Speaker 00

  No.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  And that's crazy. Like, it's crazy. And again, when you're young and, you know, you're just trying to figure it out. Like, you wanna lean on your counsel. You wanna lean on the people that are there to support you and, and help you and nurture you. But there comes a point where it's like, wait a second, who's working for who? You know? And so that is a really big, uh, big step in, in anyone's career. And that was really, really hard.

• 13:54Craig Robinson?

  And you, you, you keep talking about how young you are, but you're pretty wise for a young person. So your, your, um, intuition is gonna take you a long way. Like, if you feel like you need to fire somebody, that's probably the right decision.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:11Craig Robinson?

  Right?

• 14:12Speaker 02

  And I'm working on my reaction time because I feel like I was sit for too long. I mean, there's also such a thing as moving too quickly.

• 14:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  But like, when you know, you know.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  And it's like, it's, sometimes it's important to act on that and on every level, you know? Not just when it comes to firing people, but.

• 14:28Craig Robinson?

  So, Meech knows you, okay? I wanna get to know you, but before I start, at, at day one, when you, as a little kid.

• 14:34Speaker 00

  I was born.

• 14:35Craig Robinson?

  Talk about Forgotten Island.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:38Craig Robinson?

  That really looks like

• 14:40Speaker 00

  We got to get a little

• 14:42Craig Robinson?

  We got a little taste of it.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  So good.

• 14:44Craig Robinson?

  It looks really good. And so, tell me about how that all came about? What it's like to voice a character that you're not

• 14:54Speaker 02

  Was that your first, uh, voiceover for a character? In a film, yes.

• 14:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big deal. Honestly, I mean, it's the perfect transition because, again, as I'm becoming and like, really, leaning into who I am in a different way and not compartmentalizing myself. I feel like Forgotten Island has come at the perfect time because I get to share with the world, like, a piece of my culture and my background and who I am and what has really made me, me. And, um, yeah, that movie is like, it is so special. I'm not just saying that because I'm in it, but it's like the first major, uh, film that is highlighting Filipino culture.

• 15:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  Which is a huge deal, right? So, um, I remember, uh, I'm, I'm a huge DreamWorks fan. I'm like a huge animation fan, but DreamWorks specifically, like Shrek, Madagascar, like Wild Robot. Like, all the movies at DreamWorks are my favorite. I went to the building and I, I had a meeting with the directors. And, uh, they were just so excited to tell me about the project. Well, I think I was in the building for something else, but they wanted to meet me and we talked about it and I saw their enthusiasm. And the, the directors are also best friends. Like, they're actually best friends in real life. And, um, one of them has a Filipino wife.

• 16:14Craig Robinson?

  I was gonna say, where did the Filipino

• 16:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:17Craig Robinson?

  Line come in, okay?

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, so one of them is Filipino.

• 16:20Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  And the other has a Filipino wife.

• 16:22Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  And, um, he's like so in the culture. So, they were like, we wanna highlight our friendship and like, some of the women in our lives.

• 16:30Craig Robinson?

  That's neat.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  And the culture, and it's, it's such a big deal because like, we never see films with us in it. There's no representation. And they took it a step further and talked about, um, well, the movie's all about the Filipino folklore. So it's like all these crazy mystical characters that we were taught about when we were kids. Like, my mom would say like, watch out for this. You know, be good, otherwise the mananangal is gonna get you, you know? So there's all these like creatures, um, that we grew up on, right? These stories.

• 17:02Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  And so the movie is about these two best friends that go on this crazy adventure and, um, and these really interesting characters. And it's told in such a sweet way. Like, when I tell you, it's so endearing. It's so, it makes you wanna call your best friend.

• 17:20Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  And like, that is what I, I really love about it. Like, it has the heart, but it's also so vibrant and playful and fun. And, yeah, you really get to know Filipino culture. Yeah, it's hilarious. It's hilarious.

• 17:34Speaker 00

  It is funny. And I love the fact that they're, they're two girls as the protagonists. You know, it's a, it's a girl adventure story, you know? And you don't often get the girls as the leads, the ones who are taking the chances. And your character is a mess.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Yes, she is.

• 17:53Speaker 00

  She's the messy friend.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, she is.

• 17:55Speaker 00

  Who winds up getting everybody in trouble. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's gonna be exciting. Like you said, the studio gave us a little bit of a glimpse of it and it is really a beautiful, beautiful project.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  It's good.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  It's happening. It's really exciting.

• 18:09Speaker 00

  Well, congratulations.

• 18:10Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 18:11Craig Robinson?

  That's really neat.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  It's so exciting. I'm like, I can't wait for people to just experience the culture the way that like, you know?

• 18:17Speaker 00

  What did your mom think?

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, she hasn't even seen anything yet. Like, I want her to see the finished

• 18:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  product, but, um, she is so over the moon. Like, Filipinos are so excited. Like, they're really rallying behind this movie because it's like, it's about time we had our, our moment.

• 18:34Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 18:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really, really, really special.

• 18:44Speaker 00

  This episode of IMO is brought to you by our sponsor, Midi Health. We're gonna talk about a topic that fortunately is getting a lot more attention.

• 18:54Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 18:55Speaker 00

  Rightly so.

• 18:56Craig Robinson?

  It's getting, it's getting more attention and it's impacting a lot of families. Well, I want to invite someone here to help navigate this conversation. And let's bring out Dr. Kathleen Jordan, Dr. Jordan.

• 19:10Speaker 00

  Doc.

• 19:10Craig Robinson?

  So nice to see you.

• 19:12Speaker 00

  Great to see you. Welcome to IMO.

• 19:14Craig Robinson?

  Thank you. Thanks for being on. Let me scoot your chair in if you need it.

• 19:22Speaker 00

  Yes. Well, thank you for being here. Well, you know, it's, I think in my way of talking about all aspects of my life, it just felt like my menopause journey was a part of that.

• 19:34Craig Robinson?

  And in addition to being a founder of Midi Health, you are the chief medical officer at Midi Health. Can you tell us what exactly is Midi Health?

• 19:46Speaker 03

  So Midi Health is a telehealth clinic made for women. And we really, we're founded to really meet the huge care gap for women in perimenopause and menopause, which means we can help guide women through the hormone conversation. Is it right for them? If it is, what formulation to take? But it's actually a lot bigger than that, right? We really built it to meet women's needs in midlife.

• 20:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. I was always surprised at, you know, the notion that our, as a woman, our health stopped after childbirth.

• 20:20Speaker 03

  It is. And you know, I was, I'm an internist by training and I wasn't trained in all this. I actually had to train myself afterwards and go through sort of a certification and really stay up on it. So I had to go out of my way to get the training. We joke at many, you know, there's pediatricians, there's obstetricians, and then there's geriatricians, and then there's whole middle ground.

• 20:41Speaker 00

  There's this whole middle ground where we need specialists. I remember, it was first term in the White House, and they just would come on. And I talked to my doctor about it. It's like, oh, you're in. That's what's going on. And I wasn't sure, you know, I didn't feel like I needed to start taking hormones. I wanted to feel it out and see what it felt like. But these hot flashes were happening every 15 minutes. You know, and it's this rush of a feeling.

• 21:07Speaker 03

  Hormone therapy is safe for most women, actually. But I want to be clear, the hormone therapy is not for all women. And it's also not the only answer. Like, menopause care is a much bigger thing. It's about supporting women in a multitude of ways.

• 21:21Speaker 00

  I'm still surprised at the number of women I run into who are talking to me about their symptoms, but they don't even know that hormone replacement therapy, or any therapy, is an option. I mean, I mention it and they're like, oh, I never, you know, either they're not seeing a doctor, they haven't heard about it. I mean, Craig, you would be surprised at how little most women know about the care of our bodies. How does a woman think about using Midi?

• 21:49Speaker 03

  We really wanted women to access care. And to do that, you have to make it easy, right? So we use telehealth. I love telehealth as an access solution. It means you don't have to live near an expert. You don't have to live in a major city even. We can reach you in any zip code. But you're getting expert care delivered to you. And then we thought it was really important also to take insurance because for a lot of decades, this kind of expert care was really only available to women who could afford cash pay practices, who provided wonderful care. But really, all women deserve this. And we've really worked hard to create a platform that can deliver this care to women.

• 22:31Speaker 03

  So you can go to our website, which is joinmidi.com. That's join M I D I dot com. And really, the website helps you navigate. You can book an appointment right there. We have availability in all 50 states. And you start your journey there. You can come with one question, one issue, or some women come and just say, what should I do?

• 22:53Craig Robinson?

  And that's join M I D I dot com.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 23:03Craig Robinson?

  So talk about growing up in a multicultural household. Go back to your first memories. And what was it like growing up Gabby?

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Man, what was it like growing up Gabby? So my parents, they, my dad's African American, from Arkansas. He grew up in Arkansas. My mom's from the Philippines. And she came here when she was like 18. So I had one immigrant parent and one parent from the South, which I'm so grateful for. Like, my parents are the best. I love them. I think I wouldn't, obviously, I wouldn't be who I am without them. And yeah, trying to think like, how did I grow up in the house?

• 23:41Speaker 00

  What kind of parents were they? Who was the strict one? And, you know, because you were an only child for a while.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  I was, yeah, until my sister was born when I was like nine. Yeah.

• 23:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, so my, my mom was the sort of strict, like about school, you know? She's an Asian mom who's like, you know, don't focus on your looks, focus on the books. You know, she was very much like, A minus, unacceptable.

• 24:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  But it was a good thing. It was a good thing. And my dad was strict in different ways, you know? No boys, like all of that. But he also was very much like the one who nurtured my love for music and all my different passions. Like, he would take me out fishing like every weekend. You know, that's something we did as a family. You know, he would cook breakfast and there would be concert DVDs playing in the morning. And my grandparents, my mom's parents from the Philippines, lived with us. So I grew up in like a household with.

• 24:40Speaker 00

  Intergenerational living, yeah.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I loved that. I'm so grateful for that, honestly. And you know, they would take turns like dropping me off to school. And at one point, my mom's brother lived in the house. And all of them listened to different types of music. All of them were into different things. So I feel like I got to get like exposed to a lot of different tastes.

• 25:02Speaker 00

  And where did you grow up?

• 25:03Speaker 02

  I grew up in the Bay Area in a town called Vallejo.

• 25:07Speaker 00

  How'd your father wind up in Vallejo?

• 25:11Speaker 02

  So he's a construction worker. And so I think he came down, well, he was in Arkansas and then he was like in Washington. He was all over the place. But he came down for work. I think he heard like there was like a union there where he could like, because his, his dad, my grandfather, was also an ironworker in construction. And so he came to the Bay Area for, for work. And my parents lived in the same apartment complex.

• 25:38Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were like across from each other.

• 25:40Speaker 00

  And that's how they met.

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:44Speaker 00

  Love story.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:46Speaker 00

  Were you always gifted in music, singing? Was that, did, when did your parents find out that you had a voice?

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Honestly, I was like three years old, four years old. I was just singing all the time.

• 25:58Craig Robinson?

  Really?

• 25:59Speaker 02

  And like singing, we're always singing karaoke because that's what Filipino families do at the parties. And my dad had a band, a cover band. So that's a big part of my upbringing. Like, my dad being like so in love with guitar and music, even though he was a construction worker on the weekdays. On the weekends, he would play in a band in the Bay Area. And they would like do festivals and weddings like in the Bay Area. And they would just do covers. They would do like James Brown and Gap Band. And you know, sometimes they would do like Sweet Home Alabama and Isaac Brothers. Like, there was a lot of, there was a lot of music happening in the house already. And so they would rehearse in our living room and the instruments were there. So I would just like pick it up.

• 26:41Speaker 00

  In an apartment building?

• 26:42Speaker 02

  In our, in our house, eventually.

• 26:44Speaker 00

  In your house, yeah.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  Eventually, yeah.

• 26:46Craig Robinson?

  So was your dad your first piano teacher or guitar teacher? What'd you learn first?

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Literally, piano.

• 26:52Craig Robinson?

  We went wrong.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  I know, right?

• 26:53Craig Robinson?

  We had an awful piano teacher.

• 26:56Speaker 00

  My, our aunt Robbie, who was just like, she, she ruined it.

• 27:00Craig Robinson?

  She might as well have been in the military.

• 27:01Speaker 00

  She ruined it, of course.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:04Speaker 00

  But, yeah.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  But you had your dad.

• 27:06Craig Robinson?

  Your dad, that must have been really fun.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was. And he was big on like, learn your favorite songs, you know?

• 27:13Craig Robinson?

  That's how Austin, my, my son is learning the piano because his teacher's like, what's your favorite song? And she finds the music for it. And he's down playing Old Town Road. And I'm like, how come I didn't play that?

• 27:24Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 27:24Craig Robinson?

  I'd still be able to play.

• 27:25Speaker 00

  We were running scales and doing etudes and sonatas.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  That's boring when you're a kid.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  It's horrible. It's boring. It's good to know, but it's like, don't, you know? Let a kid learn to love it, try to hold it, yeah.

• 27:39Craig Robinson?

  And how old were you when he started teaching you?

• 27:41Speaker 02

  Uh, like seven, seven, eight. I picked up the piano first. I was like playing a lot of songs. And then I picked up the guitar. And then I stopped playing guitar for a while. I wanted to focus on piano. And then one time I'm in the store with my mom and Boogie Oogie Oogie by A Taste of Honey comes on. And she's like.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, I want that.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:00Speaker 00

  Boogie Oogie Oogie.

• 28:02Speaker 02

  Exactly. And she's like, I want you to learn this song. And I was like, Mom, like, that's a bass song. It's not a guitar. And she's like, okay. So we went to Guitar Center that day and they got me a pink bass.

• 28:12Speaker 00

  Man, I started playing bass. I want to see that picture.

• 28:16Craig Robinson?

  That thing, it must have been bigger than you were.

• 28:18Speaker 00

  It was huge to me.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  It was huge, yes.

• 28:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was nine years old, like, pink vest. And it was like, you had a pink vest?

• 28:25Speaker 02

  I did, yes.

• 28:26Speaker 03

  Of course you did.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  It was a pink furry vest, yeah.

• 28:28Speaker 00

  Were you Hannah Montana then? Were you feeling that?

• 28:31Speaker 02

  I think I was.

• 28:31Speaker 00

  Did you have a little sparkle happening in you, in your soul?

• 28:34Speaker 02

  There was a lot of sparkle happening. There was a lot of sparkle.

• 28:37Speaker 00

  So how do you go from, you know, hanging out with that, learning C minor plus A chord, whatever that is, to singing on The View?

• 28:47Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, the day show, The View.

• 28:49Speaker 00

  I mean, what, what was that? Who discovered you?

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  How did that happen?

• 28:56Speaker 02

  So YouTube was kind of just starting and there weren't that many people doing like covers on YouTube. Like, it was like when Justin Bieber started and like some of the other people who would post videos on YouTube. So my dad, I guess someone told him, post videos of your daughter on YouTube, playing and singing all, all the instruments she plays. And, you know, just, just post them. It's just like 2000. Eight, yeah, 2008-ish. And I'm little and, you know, he posts videos of me on YouTube. And I think the first call my parents got was from the Maury Povich show. And it was like, we saw your daughter's videos, like, we'd love to have her on the show.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  And apparently Maury had to have like one positive episode a year. Where you weren't the father. Exactly. I don't even remember him ever doing shows like that. It's like you were on the one show. Right. And it was like a Talented Kids episode. Okay. And so I was on the Talented Kids episode. And they, I guess the producers from Maury were, you know, somehow connected to The View or, you know, how the networks, they're all connected. And so they were like, we'd love to have her on The Today Show. It was actually The Today Show first. And then it was, from there, it was The View. And funny story, actually, even before my Today Show performance,

• 30:22Speaker 02

  I was playing in a band in the Bay Area with someone I'm working with now, actually, Dylan Wiggins, who's Dwayne Wiggins from Tony, Tony Tone, Tony's son. Yeah, oh, wow. Yeah. And he and I started playing. And there was, eventually, actually, we grew the band. And it was his brother playing with us and Kehlani was singing with us. Yeah, so we were all in a band together. At one point, Zendaya was gonna be in the band, cuz they went to school together in Oakland. Wow. Yeah, but I lived in Vallejo, so I would just see them on our rehearsal days, on the weekends. But anyway, before we started doing like the band thing,

• 31:03Speaker 02

  Dwayne Wiggins was like, we, we have an opportunity for them to do Showtime at the Apollo. Like, we just have to go, we might be able to cut the line and like do this audition and like get them on Apollo, right? You know, the kids' stars of tomorrow like thing. And so we get there and I didn't know at the time, my mom's already sent a video to the Apollo cuz she wanted me to be on there. And you know, she's smart. Yeah, she's smart. She was like, you just gonna cut the line. Your mom's like, no. Right. We're gonna do this better. She was like, it's a long shot, but I'm just gonna send it a tape. Like, she did the, like, okay, send in your video to Showtime at the Apollo. And she did it. And I think we forgot about it, like, about the video.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  We didn't really think about it. They probably didn't see it. Got to the audition and we are about to play. And they're like, wait, wait, wait a second. We saw your video already. Like, you're, you're going. You must've like missed the voicemail or missed the call. Like, we want you to...

• 32:05Craig Robinson?

  So you actually cut the line?

• 32:06Speaker 02

  So I actually cut the line, exactly. And I am not going with Dylan, but it, I think it worked out. But anyway, we, I ended up going and like singing "Free Way of Love" by Ruth Franklin. And, yeah, that was crazy. So that was right before Today Show. Playing bass or were you playing? I was just singing that time. Oh, just, wow. So I did Apollo and it was a really big deal. And we actually had to like put on like this fundraiser kind of concert in the Bay Area so that my parents could like afford the tickets to go to New York. Because it was like so many tickets. We had to get the hotel ourselves. Like, Apollo, they didn't, they didn't provide. Oh, right. They didn't have the budget. Exactly. Just like, y'all gotta stand in line.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  Exactly. So those were, those like little moments that kind of one thing led to another. And eventually, you know, we're walking out of the Today Show building and like Tommy Mortola's like, oh, hello, Kenny, my dad, you know, we wanna meet your daughter. And he's like, what is happening? Like, all these people started calling my parents. And then we ended up in LA having all the meetings. I met like Clive Davis and Jimmy Iovine. And I was 10 years old, 11 years old. What was that like? Were you aware of these people?

• 33:20Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, you didn't know what was going on.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  I was like, okay, cool. You know, probably was like, I'm tired. I wanna go back home. I wanna go to school, see my friends. Exactly, literally. What was going on with school and friends in the midst of that? When did you have to kind of transition from regular kid to, to, to, to business kid? I feel like my parents did a really great job at not making my life fully a professional life. Like, they really wanted me to be able to compartmentalize that because I was on Today Show and the next day I was back at public school. Yeah. You know, so it wasn't like, oh, we're gonna homeschool her. Like, my dad was big on like making sure I still was a regular kid.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  And I, yeah, and like I didn't have like, I mean, of course, my life was still very different. But he tried to, they tried to make sure that I was, you know, fully committed. They weren't like, we're all gonna move to LA. That's right. My mom was like anti that. She's like, no, I'm, we're not gonna, you know, have these like dreams that are false. We're not gonna move to LA and just forget everything. Like, we still have our lives. And she was a lot more practical that way. And my dad was more so the like, dream big, like, this is gonna happen and this is... And I, I think the balance helped me a lot. Like, I'm really grateful for that balance. And it was hard for them. But I think it, it really, it, it worked in my favor. So when did life change?

• 34:48Speaker 02

  When, how did her come to be? Right. It was gradual. I mean, how much time do we have? We have.

• 34:55Craig Robinson?

  We have time. As long as you have time, we have time.

• 34:58Speaker 02

  So I actually got signed shortly after some of those meetings. I think my dad was sort of advised, like, okay, if you sign one of these deals now, she'll be out of it, you know, earlier in her adulthood. So you don't have to worry about whatever, her being in it till she's 40. Right, right. You know, that was sort of how he was advised. And I was signed at, where do I begin, actually? There's so much like backstory, so many events that happened. But I was on TV and we came to LA, we met everyone. And I met a lot of different like managers.

• 35:39Speaker 02

  And my parents were sort of trying to figure out like, oh, who do we wanna work with? And of course, like, all the people in LA, when you come, they're like, come to this set. And I was like on set of like, I think it was Hancock that Will Smith was shooting at the time. Because this guy that we met worked with Overbrook Entertainment. And so they're like, celebrities. And we're like, oh, my gosh, like, we're hanging out with Will and Jada. And like, you know, they're just like doing the show business thing. And so my parents were like, oh, my gosh, like, this is crazy. We're in Hollywood, right? And then we sort of, I, I sort of started working with Overbrook at the time with Miguel, who managed like Robin Thicke and like Jennifer Hudson at the time.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  And Will and Jada, it's kids, Willow and Jaden. And so I was sort of one of their artists, but I'm like 11. So I'm still trying to figure out who am I. Who am I? Musically and all the... Exactly, exactly. But they support, they wanted to be a part of my journey somehow. And then they stopped managing like other artists and they focused on like, I mean, I don't, I'm not exactly sure what was happening, but that's what I've heard, what I heard was happening. And then Overbrook introduced my parents to MBK Entertainment, which they managed Alicia Keys at the time and were sort, sort of part of her journey. And they were like, perfect.

• 37:08Speaker 02

  And there was another woman working with MBK named Suzette Williams, who worked with Lauryn Hill. And so my parents were like, this is the perfect fit. They're all your heroes. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Like, those are the people that you sort of have always been inspired by, whatever. Like, this feels like the perfect fit. And so I started working with them. We were traveling to New York. That's where they were based. And eventually I got signed to MBK Entertainment and the larger companies, RCA. So I got signed to RCA when I was 13 years old. Wow. And it was this big thing. I was in the paper in my hometown. Like, oh, my gosh, she got signed, like, this is a big deal. And all the kids are asking me, oh, my gosh, you're rich now. I'm like, no, I'm not rich. Yeah, far from it.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Oh, you're famous. I'm like, not really, no. You know, so that time, I was still in high school and I would travel to New York and work on music. And I would work with different writers or producers and different people. And I was just figuring it out. And I'm grateful for that time. And the fact that the label was very much like, oh, she's gotta develop into the artist that she's meant to be. Cuz it's one thing to be a good musician. It's another thing to be an artist, right? Or a writer, like, to have a, a, a authentic and, and real perspective, right? And you're still learning what you like, what you can do. Because were you even writing then? A little bit, yeah. I was writing. My mom always encouraged me to write.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  And on one of those crazy Hollywood trips, I met Mariah Carey. And she was like, you need to always make sure you sharpen that pen. She told me that when I was a kid.

• 38:47Craig Robinson?

  And when you, when you say write, are you mean, write the music or write the lyrics?

• 38:53Speaker 02

  Lyrics. Yeah. Explain to my brother why that's important.

• 38:57Craig Robinson?

  She doesn't know everything either.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  I know this. I know the money part. Right, totally. I mean, you wanna make sure that you have ownership over your words, you know?

• 39:08Craig Robinson?

  The words, okay.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. The publishing is what they call it. Yeah, so when I got signed, like, I was writing and, and trying to figure it out. And suddenly I became a teenager and I had feelings. And, you know, I had things to talk about. And I was feeling the teenage angst and I was like having crushes and like getting my heart broken. It was like, you know... You, you were allowed to go on a date by then? To even get your heart crushed? Not really. You weren't supposed to be getting your heart crushed, but you were. But I was, I was.

• 39:46Speaker 02

  It was, yeah. It was, uh, my parents were like, I, I call them selectively strict.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, no, no. But you know, you gotta live, you gotta live something to be able to write something too.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 39:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly. So as I was like finding my voice or whatever, I, I started writing these songs. I came to New York with stories, you know? And I would be in the studio like, man, like this is what I went through and this about this person and oh my God, life is over, everything's the end of the world, you know? And that's how I started making my first project.

• 40:21Craig Robinson?

  Wow.

• 40:21Speaker 02

  Um, but even, even before that, I think when I was figuring it out, there was sometimes pressure, like I released a song when I was like 16, under my real name. Like it was just one song that was like, I did like the BET Music Matters stage and it was like, oh, maybe this is the moment. And it wasn't the moment, you know? I wasn't ready yet. Um, and I was doing appearances and doing the things, but it just wasn't, it wasn't the time.

• 40:47Craig Robinson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Um, so I kept performing and doing these little showcases in New York and also just being in the studio, still being a high school kid, just like, oh, can't wait to get out of class and get back to New York and, you know, keep working on this album, this project, whatever I'm working towards.

• 41:05Speaker 00

  Well, it's a trip how a lot of people describe you or at one point as an overnight sensation, you know? It's like nothing rarely happens like that in the business, whether you're acting or, you know, it is, and young people need to understand that. It's like, it's a long road, even when you're young, to becoming known and even, you know, you could, you could get the deal, but you, you, you haven't figured out the right formula.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 41:32Speaker 00

  And that takes years and years of development. Um, and it just so happened that you started at three.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 41:48Craig Robinson?

  This summer, the family and I took a trip to Bryan, Texas for our son's basketball tournament. We love barbecue and had a chance to sample some of the local spots and realized how we missed finding places the locals frequent. Trips like that always make me think about how much of the world I still want to see. Of course, the only problem with having a long travel wish list is eventually somebody has to pay for it, which got me thinking, if you're heading out on your own adventure or a big concert, game or festival is bringing travelers to your town, you can list your space on Airbnb while you're away. Instead of letting your place sit empty, you could put it to work, earn some extra

• 42:30Craig Robinson?

  income and give someone a home base to explore your city. They can discover the neighborhoods, local spots and experiences that make your community special while you put that extra income toward your next adventure. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully. Hey, Meech, I've got kind of a big question for you.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 43:03Craig Robinson?

  How much do you think one's sense of stability comes from within versus it being shaped by the environment around them?

• 43:12Speaker 02

  Well, that's a deep question.

• 43:14Craig Robinson?

  Um, told you.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  I mean, I think stability starts with self. Um, for me, uh, I, I feel the best when I feel safe and secure in who I am and how I feel about my life at the moment.

• 43:29Craig Robinson?

  Mm-hmm. You know, as I've gotten older, I think, yes, my life has gotten more stable in a million different ways, but I also think that my internal definition of crisis has changed. Things that used to feel totally destabilizing probably wouldn't faze me as much today. Progressive knows that there's so much more to homeownership than just the initial financial transaction, and it's their belief that everyone should feel supported as they navigate the twists and turns that go hand in hand with the housing journey, particularly for first time home buyers.

• 44:10Craig Robinson?

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• 44:50Craig Robinson?

  challenges and access resources and support to empower them in their housing journey. For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight-related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or for Glibron. Foundo is a once daily prescription GLP-1 medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Foundo should not be used with other GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Foundo is safe and effective for use in children.

• 45:32Craig Robinson?

  Don't take Foundo if you're allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary, thyroid cancer, or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Stop and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, or severe stomach pain. Serious side effects may include inflamed pancreas and gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes, if you're nursing, pregnant, planned to be, or taking birth control pills, and before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. Taking Foundo with an insulin or sulfonylurea may cause low blood sugar.

• 46:13Craig Robinson?

  Side effects include diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and may cause kidney problems. Once daily Foundo is available by prescription only in 0.8 milligram, 2.5 milligram, 5.5 milligram, 9 milligram, 14.5 milligram, and 17.2 milligram tablets. Learn more at foundo.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX. Now is perfect to talk to your doctor about Foundo.

• 46:51Speaker 00

  So was it your idea to become her?

• 46:55Speaker 02

  Um, yeah.

• 46:55Speaker 00

  And to talk a bit about that, how, how you thought about that and even knew that you wanted that kind of protection at that age? Cause a lot of young people, they want, I want to be known. And I want, see me, you know?

• 47:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:09Speaker 00

  And you were the exact opposite.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it was a combination of like the, the sort of like, I'm being vulnerable and I'm, I'm afraid. I was already just like a teenager going through like teenage things and feeling like, oh, I don't want anyone to see me. Like I'm afraid and also I like, I was scared of what my parents would, you know, think. I mean, not that I was writing anything crazy or doing anything crazy, but I was just like, oh no, like I feel like I'm bearing my soul. I'm like showing the world my diary.

• 47:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  In a way. And I was, I had this whole vision for like, oh my gosh, like I'm going to name it her because I, I've always been a perfectionist and a rule follower and was always like, I'm not going to fall for the wrong guy. I'm not going to do the things. I'm going to avoid that. Like the adults in my life told me all about that.

• 47:58Speaker 00

  But I knew it.

• 47:59Speaker 02

  I know better. Like, what? I was like a little know it all, uh, a little bossy know it all. And so when those things did happen, I was like, oh, it's unavoidable. Like this is life. Like I'm in it. I'm deep in it. And, uh, yeah, that's, I was like, I'm never going to be that girl. And I became her. And so that was the sort of, that's how that happened. And I was like, at first it was just like, oh, can I just release the music anonymously? And then it was like, well, no, I could, I could be, I could be her. I could just be her. Um, and it was actually, uh, Yeah, there was a moment where I realized like, okay, I could be her

• 48:44Speaker 02

  and the project can be called "Her" and I can be literally anonymous. And I thought, okay, the cover's gonna be me as a silhouette in this like, blue light. And I like, literally edited the cover, like, on some cheap app on my phone. Like, it was just like a thing. And the label, they believed in the project, but it was kind of like, well, you're just starting, so like, we're just gonna like, just throw it out there and see what happens. Like, that was kind of the energy.

• 49:13Speaker 00

  And it's also this concept that you have. It's just like, oh, you're gonna release a project? Nobody knows you, and nobody will know you?

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 49:21Speaker 00

  That was new.

• 49:22Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah, but Carolyn Williams, who was like, marketing at RCA, she believed in it, you know? And she really championed the idea and, you know, had great ideas and just helped me bring it to life. And I was super appreciative of that. And so she really like, had my back. And everybody had been so excited about my journey in general because of my musicianship. And they're like, okay, like, there's something here.

• 49:52Speaker 00

  You have real talent.

• 49:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:53Speaker 00

  And that goes a long way to people supporting you, right?

• 49:56Speaker 02

  Totally, totally.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  It's just like, you're good.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. But they're like, yeah, we know, like, you play... At the time, you know, they knew that I played instruments, but obviously, the people who listened to my project didn't know about my musician. They didn't know anything about me. So it was just like, oh yeah, put out your project and then eventually show people who you, you know, who you really are, whatever that was at that time. Things change. But, um, yeah, I mean, during that time, you know, where I was sort of breaking away from being like, teenage Gabby, you know, to then, I'm gonna commit. And I moved to New York.

• 50:34Craig Robinson?

  Okay, how old are you?

• 50:35Speaker 02

  And I was 18. Yeah, and I started, I did homeschooling, well, independent study, where they just sent me with my work in my senior year, so I could be in New York all the time. And at that time, my dad was like, okay, like, you can go, you know? And I started going to New York on my own. And I was 18. And, you know, working with these people and figuring it out. And then I released the project at 19. And then I was touring a year after that. And, you know, things didn't happen quickly necessarily.

• 51:08Speaker 00

  But when they did.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  When they did.

• 51:09Speaker 00

  When it popped.

• 51:09Speaker 02

  It was like, okay, let's go, you know? Which was great.

• 51:13Craig Robinson?

  So now, looking back at that time, when you went from sort of teenage Gabby to 18-year-old on your own, and then you do your project and then start touring, what are some of the lessons, as you look back now, that you learned that you're like, oh man, I'm thinking I could have done this differently, or I really like doing this, I learned this?

• 51:35Speaker 02

  I truly have no regrets. Like, I've forgiven a lot of people. I've forgiven myself, you know, on the journey. I don't mean to speak so cryptically, but I do think there was, you don't know what you don't know.

• 51:50Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? You don't know what you don't know until you know it. And it's gonna happen at the right time, honestly, and you have to trust the process.

• 51:59Craig Robinson?

  So that is exactly what I love to hear, trust in the process, because so many young people today, Mish hears me say this all the time, they wanna start at the front of the line, and they don't wanna work their way up. And it really felt like you learned to enjoy, I shouldn't say, I don't wanna speak for you, but you seemed to handle the process and enjoyed the process as much as looking at the results. And I think that's really important for young people to know that you, whether you're gonna be a professional musician or an athlete or a carpenter, if you don't like the process, it's hard to be good at it.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  That's true. You have, yeah, the pros have to outweigh the cons. But honestly, I'm not gonna say I like the process all the time. Like, I actually hate the process a lot, but I trust the process. And I think that's really, for me...

• 52:54Speaker 00

  But that's an important distinction, too.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz you're not gonna love the process.

• 52:58Speaker 00

  Not always.

• 52:59Craig Robinson?

  Not always.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, not always, for sure. But to overall, like, like, the bigger picture, the progress or the process, and not just be in it for the result all the time. Like, I love music. I can't not do music. So it doesn't matter what happens, I'm gonna do this regardless. You know, it's kind of a choose your hard type of conversation. You know, it's like, well, is this what you wanna be doing? Cuz if I decided to be a surgeon, that would be hard, too. You know what I mean? But that's not my thing. So, music is my thing. So I...

• 53:34Craig Robinson?

  Exactly.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  I think that I'm really grateful for the people that I have learned myself through. You know what I mean? Like, the people that have been a reflection back to me. And I'm really grateful for the times that I didn't know. Because, like, the dark times, the times that I felt like were terrible, you know? Or were not good for me or anyone. I'm so much stronger because of it. Like, my antennas for like, BS are very strong. My antennas for, you know, when someone wants to manipulate me out of my own instincts, very strong, you know?

• 54:18Speaker 02

  And I don't think I would have had that if I didn't go through a lot of the things that everybody honestly goes through in the music industry, you know, whether it's taken advantage of or what, you know, the typical stories that you hear. Those things are real. They happen. And I'm not saying that everybody has to suffer. I don't think everybody has to suffer, but there's always...

• 54:38Speaker 00

  But the industry is designed like that.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:40Speaker 00

  It is designed to, you know, find young talent and take advantage of them, you know? To support them with the idea that I can skim off this. And you're talented enough that you'll make that up later on. I mean, it's designed like that. And a lot of people don't understand. Just like, you know, it's not designed for you to solely succeed. There are a whole lot of people trying to feed off of what you bring to the table.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 55:10Speaker 00

  You know? And that is, that is part of the process.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:14Speaker 00

  You know?

• 55:14Speaker 02

  And through that process, I feel like the thing that I would tell my younger self, if I could, just a little bit more, is like, continue to trust those instincts. You know, you know what's best for you and lean on your counsel, but don't outsource, you know, your purpose. Your journey is yours. Your life is yours. Like, you drive the car. You know what I mean? And that is something I would definitely tell my younger self. But again, you don't know what you don't know. And I'm really grateful cuz I feel like I'm exercising my free will more than ever, in a way. You know, I'm like, so much more creative

• 55:57Speaker 02

  because I know what it's like to not feel creative. I know what it's like to be at that place where everything's great and then you're moving so fast, you miss out, you forget who you are, you forget why, you forget your why. And I've remembered my why and have been intentional about my why more than ever.

• 56:16Speaker 00

  So you, you're working on new music?

• 56:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. How's it feeling?

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh. I mean, again, if you would've asked me a year ago, I'd have been like, ah.

• 56:26Speaker 00

  It's like, it'll never, I'll never make it.

• 56:29Speaker 02

  Literally.

• 56:29Speaker 00

  You're feeling it, huh?

• 56:30Speaker 02

  I'm finally like, in it. Like, I am on the other side of something. I mean, the music for me, the thing that I forgot, and we just were talking about it, it's like, the time to live. And it's like, I can't make music just to make music. Like, it needs to be, needs to feel like it's of substance, you know? And that's the thing that I missed and I forgot about, was all those times I was going back home when I was 18, 17, 16, living, and then coming to New York with the stories and with the weight of like, my life and the things that I felt. And I forgot that, you know? And so this time, I felt 18 again.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  I've been feeling like I'm 17, 18 again. Like, I have so much to say. I have so much to say. I have, I live a full life. I'm a human. And I haven't felt human in a long time. You know? And, yeah, and I feel human again. And I, that to me, is the most rewarding thing out of, like, okay, I hope people love it, that's cool and all. I love it.

• 57:38Craig Robinson?

  That's great.

• 57:39Speaker 00

  I'm proud of it.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like, the progression of this project is like, oh my gosh, like, there's a person who has something to say. It's in there. And so I'm, it's rewarding, this process, and why I'm so happy and excited about it cuz I'm pretty much finishing up.

• 57:59Speaker 00

  When's it coming out? Can you talk about that?

• 58:01Speaker 02

  No dates yet. We're working on that. Working on that part. I'm kind of mixing it right now. But I've done the work internally, not just in the studio, but outside of the studio. And this has been like, a release. It's like, I've just healed through this. I've been, I've allowed for so many emotions to exist. And I put it into something that I'm proud of. And that's a really tough thing to remember.

• 58:29Speaker 00

  I can't wait for it.

• 58:30Craig Robinson?

  I know, yes, like, yes.

• 58:32Speaker 00

  I mean, you were good before you knew anything.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 58:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's so beautiful. I'm so happy for you.

• 58:39Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 58:40Speaker 00

  I really, really am. You are just, you know, you're a light, you know?

• 58:54Craig Robinson?

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• 1:00:21Craig Robinson?

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• 1:01:03Craig Robinson?

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• 1:01:44Craig Robinson?

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• 1:02:26Craig Robinson?

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• 1:03:10Craig Robinson?

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• 1:03:41Craig Robinson?

  Are you ready to give some folks your opinion?

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. I've got a lot of them, which I love.

• 1:03:50Speaker 00

  It's like, you've got to come back because you, you know, you fit right in.

• 1:03:53Craig Robinson?

  You fit right in. And you're so young. You're gonna have a whole bunch of stuff happening after this.

• 1:03:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, we've got to get you into co-host every now and then just to be like, from Gabby and her world. Yeah. Well, let's, who's our, who's our listener question from today?

• 1:04:10Speaker 04

  This is from Rachel in San Diego.

• 1:04:13Craig Robinson?

  Okay, Rachel.

• 1:04:14Speaker 04

  619. My name is Rachel. I'm 26 years old and a social media manager. Before I started working, I attended a prestigious university, graduated with honors, and interned at a few places related to what I wanted to do. In other words, I did everything right that my parents and professors said would help me get my foot in the door and into the industry. But when it came to the job hunt, I was often told I was overqualified for entry-level positions. And when I got hired at my current company, it feels like everything they liked about my resume was thrown out the window. I am the youngest at the company, and my boss likes to make jokes that I am supposedly too young to get. When I ask for more responsibility, I'm given trivial tasks that don't really help me grow.

• 1:04:59Speaker 04

  And if I take the initiative to do something more, I'm told it wasn't done perfectly and not to do it again until my boss directs me to do so. I understand I'm supposed to pay my dues, but I don't pretend to know everything. It's frustrating when I ask to have more responsibility doing work that I already know how to do just for my boss to say, "I'm not ready for it." So my question is, how do I get my boss to take me more seriously so that I can continue to grow in my position? And how can I stand up for myself and my professional instincts while also respecting the fact that my colleagues have more experience?

• 1:05:37Speaker 00

  The first thing I would say is, Rachel, you're, you're right where you're supposed to be.

• 1:05:42Speaker 04

  Totally.

• 1:05:43Speaker 00

  Sounds like a new job.

• 1:05:44Speaker 04

  Totally.

• 1:05:45Speaker 00

  Sounds like you're 26. It sounds like, yeah, that's, that's, that's where you are. But go ahead, Gab.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, totally. And it's funny because you kind of sound like me a little bit, or, you know, how I've sounded in the past. And I think, I thought about a few things. And one of the things that I thought about

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  was, as a musician, experiencing something similar, being like, the thing that gets you in the door and that actually gets you to the next level is often the thing that people try to change and shift and, you know, tell you, no, you've got to change it up to, you know, to be X, Y, and Z. And so that's the part where it's so easy to, like, forget who you are, getting lost in, like, pleasing what other people's idea of what your trajectory should look like and who you should be. That's, that's, I feel like where that can be tricky and change. And I think the first thing I would say is, are you proud of yourself and the work that you're doing and you have done?

• 1:06:56Speaker 02

  Because if you can sit in any room and say, "I'm proud of me, I know I did the work," instead of, you know, struggling with this, like, I'm not getting the respect. I feel like, number one is, like, respect yourself and honor yourself and, and the work that you've done. Like, say, "I'm proud of myself, and I know I did good work." You know, and, and walking with that, I think, helps. But you, you can't please everybody. And especially as a woman, you know, no matter what profession you're in, like, we're gonna be picked apart regardless, you know, whether it's how we're thinking, what we're wearing, what we say. Like, we're gonna be picked apart. So I, I do think it's, it's important to maintain that,

• 1:07:41Speaker 02

  like, I'm proud of myself, you know? And I am doing the work. And, and trust the process, you know? It's gonna be hard. Everybody's not gonna respect you. Everybody's not gonna give you, you know, the thing that you want and the respect that you deserve. And the other, the other side to that made me think of the secondary part of the question. I totally lost my train of thought. Can you repeat the last part of the question?

• 1:08:10Speaker 04

  Yeah. How can I stand up for myself and my professional instincts while also respecting the fact that my colleagues do have more experience?

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  That, we talked about that earlier. And I've recently experienced that, where I've had to stop. You know, I mean, again, it's important to be a student. It's important to learn and listen and to, you know,

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  not like get ahead of yourself necessarily. But I think it's also important to know that your perspective and your instincts are valuable. Like, just because your colleagues or your, you know, the other people at the company have more experience, it doesn't make you invaluable. It doesn't make you less valuable. Like, I think it's important to know, okay, they have the experience and the knowledge, but I have a unique perspective. And I think you should empower yourself to speak up. And it's better that you speak than not say anything and regret like, oh, I wish I would have said something. And again, that outsourcing your power or validation, you know,

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  it's better you speak and then make a mistake and learn than not speak because you think someone is better, you know, equipped. Because I feel like you have the tools, you know? I feel like she has the tools and.

• 1:09:33Speaker 00

  Well, she may have some of the tools.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:09:35Speaker 00

  Right? She has some tools, like, you know.

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:09:38Speaker 00

  And at 26, you know, again, you are still developing the tools. She's developing the tools.

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:09:47Speaker 00

  You know, just like you weren't, you had some tools at 19 when you started this. But time, you know, proved that now at 28, you got a whole nother set of tools.

• 1:09:58Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:09:59Speaker 00

  And what I want, what's her name again?

• 1:10:02Craig Robinson?

  Rachel.

• 1:10:02Speaker 00

  Rachel to understand is like that, that period of growth, which is time-based.

• 1:10:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:09Speaker 00

  Is real, you know? There, it's real now, you know? And to, don't underestimate that, you know? Because, you know, growth in the learning process is, is how you get more tools. Right? So, but with that said, I'd, I want to make sure for Rachel that the environment that she in, I'm assuming it's not abusive, you know? And it's not dangerous and it's not, you know, debilitating in, in any way. Because those are very separate issues, right?

• 1:10:43Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:10:43Speaker 00

  If you're dealing with some.

• 1:10:46Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:46Speaker 00

  Really, you know? And, you know, and there's even learning in that environment too.

• 1:10:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:53Speaker 00

  You know, but you do have to distinguish, am I at a place that's sapping me? Or am I in a place where I'm just not happy?

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:11:00Speaker 00

  And I'm uncomfortable?

• 1:11:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:11:02Speaker 00

  You know, because there's learning to be had in that, getting through that part. Just like you said, Gab, you don't like the process always, right? The process isn't always fun and doesn't have to be. But you still, you have to get used to getting through parts of the process you don't like.

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:11:20Speaker 00

  Because guess what that is most of life?

• 1:11:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:22Speaker 00

  You know, really being able to get through the part of the life that isn't fun and isn't fulfilling and isn't, shoot, that's being a mother, right? That's being a parent, that's being a partner, that's paying bills. I mean, so much of life is like being able to withstand and sustain yourself and be resilient through the stuff that's not fun and you do not like. And she could be learning that and starting to practice and build that muscle in this first job that is frustrating and, you know? So, think about that.

• 1:11:56Craig Robinson?

  I've always found that putting, reminding your boss of what it was like to be in your position opens up a whole dialogue because bosses love to talk about what they went through.

• 1:12:12Speaker 00

  So you mean asking your boss, tell me what it was like?

• 1:12:15Craig Robinson?

  Tell me what it was like for you when you were 26 and trying to break in. You know, a lot of times when we give some advice, we hear it and we give them the sort of 30,000 feet, but that last part where she was asking for practical advice. Talk to your bosses if you're interviewing him about his life and talk to him about, hey, how did you get to be where you wanted to be?

• 1:12:44Craig Robinson?

  And I've always found that that is really impactful because supervisors love telling the old stories about what it was like in the olden days. And you will garner something from that. If nothing else, then they will, they will understand when you start doing some of the things that they did to get ahead.

• 1:13:09Craig Robinson?

  So Rachel, take that, all, all of these.

• 1:13:12Speaker 02

  Nuggets.

• 1:13:14Craig Robinson?

  And hopefully these little nuggets will help you.

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:17Speaker 00

  Well, Gab, you are a treasure and I really appreciate you coming through. I specifically asked for Gabby. So I'm so glad you were able to make the time and we got you in a space where you had some space.

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:32Speaker 00

  So just keep doing it, girl.

• 1:13:35Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 1:13:36Speaker 00

  Really, I'm so proud of you, really. This was really a joy to be with you here. You got, you, you've given a lot to our listeners and viewers, so thank you for that.

• 1:14:10Speaker 05

  I'm Emma Greed, host of Aspire with Emma Greed, the podcast where I sit down with people who don't just dream big, they build big. If you love Michelle and Craig on IMO, just wait until you hear their episode on my show. Michelle told me about the moment at 26 when she lost her father and her best friend in the same year. It made her walk away from her corporate law career to figure out her why. That's the kind of conversation you get on Aspire. We talk about mindset, ambition, and doing the work that actually moves the needle. So if you're ready to raise your standards and take charge of the life you're building, Aspire is where you start. Follow and listen to Aspire with me, Emma Greed, available wherever you get your podcasts.