Ask Your Kid The Tough Questions with Angie Martinez

Michelle and Craig sit down with famed radio host, podcaster, newly-minted golfer, and “Voice of New York,” Angie Martinez. As the mother of two sons, Angie offers her opinions to a listener struggling with raising a son in a volatile culture filled with bad examples of masculinity. Michelle and Craig talk about adolescent social pressure, and Angie shares her best trick for connecting with sons. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  The one thing that pissed me off about parenting is like when I got pregnant, nobody told me when my son was a baby, I would look at his chest to see if he was still breathing.

• 0:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 0:08Speaker 00

  I'd go in the room and I would do that for weeks. And then I said, okay, I can't sleep. When does this part stop? And the day that I realized, oh my gosh, this never stops.

• 0:17Michelle Obama?

  Ever.

• 0:18Speaker 00

  I was furious that nobody told me that. Like, this is a big deal. Like forever, I have somebody to worry about.

• 0:24Michelle Obama?

  Forever and ever, amen, as I say, you know.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  I never, my life is different forever.

• 0:29Michelle Obama?

  And then they'll have grandkids and you'll feel the same way about them. So it just goes on.

• 0:33Speaker 00

  It's torturous. It's really torturous.

• 0:35Michelle Obama?

  So we gotta think about this, because parenting is for, you know.

• 0:38Speaker 00

  It ain't for everybody.

• 0:38Michelle Obama?

  It ain't, it ain't for suckers. It's not for suckers. You gotta be tough. You gotta, you know, you gotta be. And so we have to prepare. Jessica has to prepare her son for that life.

• 0:56Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by PineSaw and Chase Home Lending.

• 1:02Craig Robinson?

  Hey, little girl.

• 1:02Michelle Obama?

  Craig Malcolm.

• 1:03Craig Robinson?

  How are you?

• 1:04Michelle Obama?

  What's going on, dude?

• 1:05Craig Robinson?

  Oh, man, just enjoying sitting here next to you.

• 1:08Michelle Obama?

  I know. I love my time with you.

• 1:12Craig Robinson?

  I know. This is great.

• 1:13Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, this is the whole reason for doing this. I get to see you. What, what, what? You got something going on? What's on your mind?

• 1:19Craig Robinson?

  I have so much good stuff to talk about today. So, growing up, do you remember mom and dad ever talking about parenting?

• 1:29Michelle Obama?

  That's a good question. I, I remember them talking about their parents.

• 1:36Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 1:37Michelle Obama?

  The, what, what went right in their parents' parenting and what went wrong? I mean, if you, one of the beautiful things about mom and dad, and mom more so, was that she was very upfront with us about.

• 1:55Michelle Obama?

  Her strengths, but also her weaknesses. And she talked to us about everything and tried to put her parenting lessons in some context for us.

• 2:07Craig Robinson?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:07Michelle Obama?

  You know, so that's to say that they gave us context to how they were parented, what they thought their parents got right and wrong. So that helped us understand their why with us.

• 2:20Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 2:20Michelle Obama?

  Which, which helped us understand their, their principles of parenting.

• 2:25Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. Yeah. What I remember so distinctly is mom saying on more than one occasion, hey, look, this is my first time being a parent.

• 2:35Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:36Craig Robinson?

  And I'm not sure if I'm doing it right.

• 2:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 2:39Craig Robinson?

  And that always resonated with me. And while that wasn't them sort of talking about parenting to each other, parenting, you know, parenting us to each other, it was a look behind the curtain of, oh, they're just regular folks too, trying to figure it out. And I always remember mom saying that before she made any kind of decision on punishment, she would count to 10.

• 3:05Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:06Craig Robinson?

  You remember that?

• 3:07Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:07Craig Robinson?

  And.

• 3:08Michelle Obama?

  Why I didn't get punished that much.

• 3:09Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, well, neither, yeah, neither did I. But we got punished, we, we, we got, we got a couple of spankings.

• 3:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:17Craig Robinson?

  And as a future parent, the grace to be able to say, well, I'm not sure how this works. And I think that makes you a better parent when you come into the game, knowing that you're not an expert at this.

• 3:32Michelle Obama?

  Well, and knowing that your kids don't need you to be an expert on it. Um, you know, that was some of the wisdom that they understood was that showing your flaws to your children.

• 3:44Craig Robinson?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:45Michelle Obama?

  That, that's, that's not always a bad thing. Um, it's okay to say that you're afraid or that you don't know, or that you're not sure and to make them a part of a bigger conversation. And I think so many parents feel like they gotta show up perfectly for their kids, or else they won't get the respect, or, you know, they, they won't have the authority. I don't know what it is, but. Mom and dad did a beautiful job of making themselves plain to us. Like, not just being our parents, but being, as you put, human beings.

• 4:20Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 4:21Michelle Obama?

  And I think mom and dad modeled that for us in a really powerful way.

• 4:25Craig Robinson?

  No, I, I, I absolutely agree. But before we, we, we bring out our guest here, I have one more question that I was thinking about when I was thinking about this episode. Do you remember ever changing who you were based on what your friends were doing or wanted to do?

• 4:48Michelle Obama?

  Look, there was the, there were a whole bunch of versions of me when I was young. I, I think, I think there's the, there was the smart version, you know, the go to school, get good grades, loving to have A's version of yourself. The person who likes to read. And then there's the you who has to get to school safely, who has to play in the neighborhood, who has to, you know, show up with kids. In our neighborhood, kids were, you know, from every kind of, now I shouldn't say every kind of background, we were same race, same socioeconomic status, but not, everybody didn't have the same thing and they didn't have the same ability. And when you grew up in the hood, you know, when you grew up in the neighborhood,

• 5:31Michelle Obama?

  look, if you, if you talk a certain way, if you show off in a certain way, if you brag about yourself, if you somehow make somebody else feel intimidated or lesser than intentionally or unintentionally, you're in a fight, right? You, or you're gonna have a hard time, you know, meshing with the, with the, with the folk. So I know I went through a period where I was just cursing more, you know? And, and I miss being, you know, we went to day camp. And that wasn't me, but it, it just became me outside of the home. Where I was just like MF, blah, blah. I mean, I really just got into just like, this is how you communicate.

• 6:14Michelle Obama?

  And I must've been like 10 because this was like, I remember when it, it dawned on me how bad it had gotten because we were at Rainbow Beach Day Camp. We went to this public day, day camp every summer. And I, it was like the third year, I'd always gotten camper of the year in my age group. And this last year. I didn't get it.

• 6:36Craig Robinson?

  Notice she said she always got camper of the year.

• 6:39Michelle Obama?

  I always got, which meant that you were helpful and you were, 10 of you followed the rules. You got along with others and you know, we prided ourselves on that.

• 6:47Craig Robinson?

  Yes, we, we did.

• 6:47Michelle Obama?

  And at the, at the awards banquet where the parents came, I didn't get camper of the year. And I had been doing all the same things and I went up to the, I didn't really come up and go, what, what happened, coach? But she came up to me, our camp head and said, you know, you would have gotten it this year, but you were just cursing so much. And I was like, oh, wow. My cursing affected my award status. So I, so that's the long way of saying that, yeah, I do think that I changed. I tried to get a little more, you know, a little less good girl and a little more, uh, just sort of, and that was outside of my character.

• 7:27Craig Robinson?

  It's completely outside and, and so much so, I didn't know that you were cursing.

• 7:31Michelle Obama?

  Because I wasn't doing it at home.

• 7:33Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 7:33Michelle Obama?

  I wasn't coming home with my potty mouth.

• 7:35Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 7:35Michelle Obama?

  I was leaving that on the bus.

• 7:36Craig Robinson?

  We weren't in the same age group.

• 7:38Michelle Obama?

  Right, that's right.

• 7:39Craig Robinson?

  So, you know, we did, we, I, I'd never heard that.

• 7:42Michelle Obama?

  What about you? Have you ever changed yourself?

• 7:45Craig Robinson?

  I, I remember, I, I remember this clearly. I remember going to play cards. I was in seventh, eighth grade, going to play cards over Brian Williams' house. And Brian Williams is probably out there somewhere. And everybody was smoking cigarettes.

• 8:01Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 8:02Craig Robinson?

  Everybody was smoking cigarettes.

• 8:04Michelle Obama?

  What, what, what grade was this? I don't remember this.

• 8:06Craig Robinson?

  It's like seventh or eighth grade. I mean, I wasn't in high school.

• 8:09Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 8:10Craig Robinson?

  And I remember everybody smoking. They're like, Craig, you want a cigarette? And I was like, yeah. And I took a lit cigarette and I held it and didn't puff it.

• 8:20Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 8:21Craig Robinson?

  And I went home and I was like, uh, yeah, I was over Brian's house and, and, and dad was like, you guys smoking cigarettes, huh? And I was like, how did he know?

• 8:32Michelle Obama?

  It was like some jujitsu parenting stuff.

• 8:34Craig Robinson?

  He knew because we were in a room full of cigarette smoke. So I must've smelled like cigarette smoke.

• 8:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's, that's why kids are stupid.

• 8:40Craig Robinson?

  That's why kids are dumb.

• 8:41Michelle Obama?

  They think their parents are magical. And it's like, well, you, you got lie written all over you.

• 8:46Craig Robinson?

  I know, I know, I know.

• 8:49Craig Robinson?

  And I said, no, I wasn't smoking. I, I held a cigarette, but I wasn't smoking. And he said,

• 8:56Craig Robinson?

  Okay. And the fact that he just believed what I said could have worked in either way. I could have said, I can bamboozle this guy, but I was so disappointed that he was disappointed.

• 9:11Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 9:12Craig Robinson?

  That I, you know.

• 9:15Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 9:15Craig Robinson?

  I turned into Honest John.

• 9:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that was my nickname for you, HJ, because you would, you would confess to stuff that no one needed to know you did.

• 9:25Craig Robinson?

  I know.

• 9:25Michelle Obama?

  And I just, your guilty soul, I'd be like, what'd you tell them for? They wouldn't know. Yeah, HJ, I started calling you HJ from there on.

• 9:34Craig Robinson?

  You did. Yes, you did.

• 9:35Michelle Obama?

  But that's good. That's why, you know, I mean, whatever balance as a, as a, as a grown man out in the world, I can say this from the bottom of my heart, that you are one of the most decent men I know. And I think that that, you know, a lot of that is a testament to that delicate balance that mom and dad had to strike as parents with, with a, a black man in the world, you know? That's a complicated business and that's a, well, we're going to talk about men in the world today.

• 10:06Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, well, that, that means a lot. And before I get all choked up, I'm gonna introduce our guest and I, I can't tell you how excited I am to, for this conversation.

• 10:18Craig Robinson?

  She's a director, a writer, a podcast host in her own right, a Hall of Famer in the broadcast world, and I understand now that she's a pretty decent golfer and that's what I want to talk about. And of course, she's a mother. We have coming with us today, Angie Martinez.

• 10:41Michelle Obama?

  Angie.

• 10:44Michelle Obama?

  You come on in.

• 10:47Speaker 03

  So happy to be here.

• 10:49Craig Robinson?

  Thank you.

• 10:49Speaker 03

  For being here.

• 10:50Craig Robinson?

  Are you kidding? Great to have you here.

• 10:52Speaker 03

  I wouldn't have wanted this for anything. Good to see you.

• 10:55Michelle Obama?

  Hey, have a seat. Join us at the Knights of the Roundtable. Because we're all in blackish-ish.

• 11:01Speaker 00

  This is a vibe in here.

• 11:03Michelle Obama?

  It's a vibe. It's vibey vibe. Got a little, our little fireplace going. But anyway.

• 11:09Craig Robinson?

  Well, listen, I'm new at this game and you're a veteran.

• 11:12Speaker 00

  The podcasting game?

• 11:13Craig Robinson?

  The interviewing game.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  Oh, okay, good.

• 11:15Craig Robinson?

  The whole thing. So I'm interested in hearing the hardest, most difficult interview you've ever had.

• 11:24Speaker 00

  Oh, my goodness. That's a very hard question. It's, it's an abundance. I, I was, I've been doing this since I'm 18 years old, you know.

• 11:31Michelle Obama?

  And you're only 27.

• 11:33Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 11:35Craig Robinson?

  So.

• 11:35Speaker 00

  Some of those were nine years. I have been, no, no. I have over 30 years and, and, and when I started, you know, hip hop was like coming of age is the same time I was. So every artist was in New York. I was the, the, the spot in New York to do interviews. So I'm doing two a day. And these are not like, this is Jay-Z and Mary J. Blige and Nas and Wu-Tang. This is the cream of the, you know, so it's every day for all those years. Now I'm a little more particular. I feel like I, I want to talk to people that I have either something to offer them or they have something to offer me or our audience. And also just, you know, I try to balance my life a little different now. But there's just so many is the point. Some of them are hard.

• 12:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  Some of them are sad. Some of them are disappointing. You know, I just try to see truth in people.

• 12:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 12:22Speaker 00

  And sometimes it's some little artists that I was like, who, what, who? And then they surprised me with some beautiful story about their childhood or.

• 12:30Michelle Obama?

  Some level of insight that they have that you wouldn't imagine.

• 12:33Speaker 00

  That you wouldn't really know. So it's really hard to say hardest.

• 12:37Craig Robinson?

  That's why I like podcasting to me because.

• 12:39Michelle Obama?

  It feels a little looser.

• 12:41Craig Robinson?

  It feels like a real discussion. I'm having a blast. This, this has opened a new chapter for me. So I'm having an absolute blast.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Anytime you open up a new skill set too.

• 12:53Michelle Obama?

  It's a good thing.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  There's like so much wonder in it.

• 12:55Michelle Obama?

  Well, it's like picking up golf.

• 12:56Speaker 00

  It's the same thing.

• 12:57Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it's like it's a new muscle.

• 13:06Craig Robinson?

  This episode of IMO is sponsored by Chase Home Lending, helping you navigate the journey to your new home with confidence. Chase Home Lending understands that buying a home can feel overwhelming, especially when balancing career and family demands. They're committed to supporting you every step of the way, offering personalized guidance and flexible solutions to fit your unique needs. This reminds me of the story when my wife Kelly bought her first place before we got married. You know, once she decided to buy a place, we knew that that was stressful enough on its own. Then came the actual execution of the idea. We talked about the stress of the size of the transaction, the money needed for the down payment,

• 13:51Craig Robinson?

  but just as important was gathering all the documents needed by the bank. It didn't have to be that stressful. Whether you're a first time home buyer or looking to upgrade, Chase's home lending experts and smart digital tools can guide you through the process, providing necessary support for informed decision making. Dreaming of a home? Connect with a home lending advisor at chase.com/start to get started. Member FDIC, equal housing opportunity. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Theraplu. Hey, it's Craig Robinson here, and let me tell you, being sick is no joke. But you know what's even tougher?

• 14:34Craig Robinson?

  Feeling like you can't take the time to rest and recover because you've got bills to pay or a job to keep. You know, being a coach, even though I was afforded paid sick time, it was the type of job that you really try and muscle through for your team. And I have done that. It made me realize, though, that it is tough for folks who don't have the benefit of paid sick time. It's not only tough on the individual and their families, it's also tough on your coworkers. Maybe you, like so many Americans, have felt that stress too, wondering what your boss will think or if your- Paycheck will take a hit.

• 15:14Craig Robinson?

  That's why I'm proud to talk about what Theraplu is doing with their Right to Rest and Recover campaign. For the past four years, they've been championing the right to pay six times for everyone. I love that Theraplu is making this a priority. Learn more or help someone apply for the fund at theraplu.com/righttorecover. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. As it stands, colon cancer is on the rise in people under 50, which is why the American Cancer Society recommends that if you're at average risk, you begin screening at 45.

• 15:59Craig Robinson?

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• 16:43Craig Robinson?

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• 17:28Craig Robinson?

  hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer.

• 17:34Craig Robinson?

  The Cologuard test is not a replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. Cologuard is available by prescription only.

• 18:03Michelle Obama?

  And, you know, speaking of, you know, new stories and new chapters, not new, but, you know, everybody talks to you about the work you do, but you got a life too. How is, how is life?

• 18:16Speaker 00

  How is life?

• 18:17Michelle Obama?

  How is family? How are your, how are your people?

• 18:20Speaker 00

  My people are good. I, I think I have turned the corner where life is really important to me.

• 18:25Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 18:26Speaker 00

  Whereas work used to be so important. I always loved my family. I have the same best friends from, since third grade. I have, I cherish friendships and those things, but I don't know that I put so much time or effort into them as I would work. My youngest is 18, getting ready to leave. My oldest is 21, who's like finding his way. And so it gives me permission to kind of like, well, what do you want now?

• 18:49Michelle Obama?

  Isn't that permission amazing? At least, I'm sorry, as a woman, as a mother?

• 18:56Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 18:56Michelle Obama?

  I mean.

• 18:57Speaker 00

  And nobody could give it to you. You have to give it to yourself.

• 18:59Michelle Obama?

  That's right. That's right.

• 19:00Speaker 00

  You have to give it to yourself.

• 19:01Michelle Obama?

  They've, they've been launched. I really feel like at 60, this is the first time that all my decisions are for me. I don't think that, you know, there's been a point in life, my life, where at least after being married and having kids, that my choices were always somehow wrapped up in what they needed.

• 19:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, or family.

• 19:22Michelle Obama?

  You know? Yeah. And this is a period of freedom. I'm sure you're feeling that.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  I think I'm getting to that too. Yeah, I'm getting to that too. And, and I'm just appreciative of like, I've had some friends recently with some health issues and some loss and, you know, you, whenever you're like confronted with mortality, you kind of like, you're forced to say, well, what do I really, what's important to me? I don't, you know, like, I don't want to waste any time doing something that doesn't bring me joy.

• 19:48Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 19:49Speaker 00

  I mean, not to say, sometimes you have to work. You have to work to get to the thing that you want to accomplish. But, um, I want less of that.

• 19:57Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 19:58Speaker 00

  And I want more of the joy part. And I like to work, so that's fine.

• 20:02Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, but you know that and you've developed that muscle.

• 20:06Speaker 00

  I have the muscle.

• 20:07Michelle Obama?

  The joy muscle, it's amazing when you've exercised the work muscle. Sometimes you forget that the joy piece, you gotta learn that too.

• 20:15Speaker 00

  I know.

• 20:16Michelle Obama?

  Learn how to sit in the accomplishment and look at it and go, wow, you know, this is a good thing.

• 20:23Speaker 00

  But you also have to, there has to be intention in it. Otherwise, you can let it, you could use old habits and fall into like.

• 20:28Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my God, yeah.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  The old habits. And so I've been trying to be conscious of that. So that's kind of like where my life is now. It's like, and then also the fine line of having adult children is like, how much do you, how much do you get in and how much do you get out? And how much do you stay up? I'm still in the stay up late. If my kids are home, I can't go to sleep if they're out. Do you do that? Like, can you?

• 20:51Michelle Obama?

  You know, it's interesting because both of the girls are off. They live.

• 20:54Speaker 00

  They're on their own.

• 20:55Michelle Obama?

  They're on their own.

• 20:56Speaker 00

  But if they come stay at your house.

• 20:57Michelle Obama?

  That's what I was gonna say. If they are, I don't know where they are all for, you know, 200 days of a year. But they're in my house. I'm just all of a sudden, well, where are you?

• 21:07Speaker 00

  Exactly. You know, I'm not a crazy person.

• 21:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, no, no. That's why I'm, you know, I was never one of those mothers who are like, I just want you to be with me. I mean, I'm happy that I love every, I've loved every phase of parenting. I loved them when they were little babies. I loved them when they walk in and starting to talk. The teenagers were interesting.

• 21:27Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 21:28Michelle Obama?

  In the White House. But I've loved every time and watching them become their own people and make their own choices and figure stuff out and call me after they figured it out. You know?

• 21:39Speaker 00

  That's nice.

• 21:40Michelle Obama?

  That's, it's a, it's a good thing. And I think that I wouldn't, I wouldn't let them do that if they were right under me.

• 21:46Craig Robinson?

  Now that we're talking a little bit about parenting, this is a good time to bring in our question.

• 21:52Michelle Obama?

  Well, Natalie, let's hear the question.

• 21:54Speaker 04

  Hi, Michelle and Craig. I'm Jessica and the mother of a 17 year old boy. My son plays football, all of his friends do. And while I'm proud of his athletic achievements, go Saints, I sometimes worry the environment around him pushes toxic forms of masculinity. His friends are over all the time. And although I know and love them all, I can't help but overhear some of the stuff they talk about. Girls being either hot or ugly, which guys are the best and worst at football. It seems like a verbal competition for who can be the toughest and most callous in the group. I feel like I'm seeing early stages of boys getting caught up in unhealthy ideas of what it means to be a man.

• 22:38Speaker 04

  The version of my son that I see with his friends is a lot different than the version I see without them. He's sweet. He likes reading. He's kind to his younger sister. I'm really not sure how to reconcile this. It's hard to find a balance between encouraging him to be strong and competitive while also making sure he stays grounded and emotionally open. How do you think we can change the conversation around masculinity so that boys learn that being a good man is about so much more than toughness or success? What are the values you've worked to instill in your own sons to help them navigate all of this? Thanks, Jessica.

• 23:17Michelle Obama?

  I love this question.

• 23:18Speaker 00

  It's a good question.

• 23:19Craig Robinson?

  All right.

• 23:20Michelle Obama?

  Well, also, it's like, I have daughters. And my daughters are encountering men and boys. And, you know, I started to talk to Craig about, I try to probe, it's like, how are we feeling about where our men and boys are these days? Because, you know, there's, there's a part of me, you know, you're reading in studies that more young men feel isolated, they feel, they're feeling alone. Some of that is because of the pandemic. Some of it is because they feel left out. I just, I'm curious for you two who are sun raisers.

• 23:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:57Michelle Obama?

  You know, what are you, what are you seeing out there in our, our young men?

• 24:01Speaker 00

  That's interesting, because I did hear that too recently, that this generation's like the loneliest generation. And I think pandemic, but also I think everything's inside, you know, it's like social media and, and online and AI and all the things that are inside versus outside and having to force interaction and learn how to. Hurt somebody's feelings and feel bad about it and apologize and learn how to apologize. You know, it's like you can only learn how to be a good human by actually being a human with other humans. You know, and a lot of our kids are are stuck in this like inside world. So I I see that. But I think for me, it's like a push and pull of like, you know, she mentions hearing him talk to his friends.

• 24:44Speaker 00

  And part of that is like, they have to find their way. They're not gonna get it right all the time. And like you like you were talking about peer pressure and all that stuff being around. I think you wait for the moments, you wait for when they do something that that they did well.

• 25:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 25:01Speaker 00

  And you praise that and you let them know how important that part of their personality is. As opposed to hovering and like, why did you say that to your friend? Like, I think it's a it's a really a push and pull because you also can lose them by pushing too hard.

• 25:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  Or they hide or they hide things from you because they already know what you're gonna say about everything. So for me, I I try to walk that fine line of letting them become, showing by example. And then also encouraging when I see something that I'm proud of so that they know that those. I mean, obviously, if they did something that was completely wrong or out of line, then we're gonna address that. But, you know, talking loose with their friend, I'm not gonna jump in the room and be like, hey, I heard what you said.

• 25:46Michelle Obama?

  Give a lecture on this. It's like, Mom, get out of here.

• 25:49Speaker 00

  You know, sometimes it takes them a little, they gotta go on a little path. Unless you're seeing something that's super disturbing, just kind of you gotta kind of watch and hop in where you. It's a slow mold. It's a slow, constant molding.

• 26:02Craig Robinson?

  And I think your strategy is terrific because you just can't jump at everything they say. And nor should you be helicoptering in when you hear stuff. And my two youngest are still young enough where, and Misha and I talked about this.

• 26:21Craig Robinson?

  It gets back to the isolation. They don't communicate with their friends as much as we did when we were younger. And part of that has to do with technology. But part of it has to do with parents who are trying to curate their upbringing instead of just letting them be outside, play, say the wrong thing, get into a fight with your boys, have to make up, and then start playing again. Because that's what boys used to be known for. Because you talked, we talked about this all the time. How boys can get into an absolute fistfight.

• 27:02Speaker 00

  Oh, yes, my boys have done that.

• 27:03Craig Robinson?

  And then.

• 27:04Speaker 00

  They're outside playing basketball 30 minutes later.

• 27:06Craig Robinson?

  Playing basketball, like nothing ever happened. And it is a boy thing.

• 27:13Speaker 00

  It used to be intentional sometimes. They used to, they used to say, let's go shoot a fair one. And then they go, go fight it out. And then, not my boys, I'm just saying, boys in general, that was a thing. Like, we're gonna go fight it out. Which I don't necessarily love that as a mom either, but.

• 27:27Craig Robinson?

  But, but I think this whole phenomenon is a part of just where we are in society.

• 27:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:34Craig Robinson?

  I think there is a, an industry in sort of toxicity, you know?

• 27:42Michelle Obama?

  There's a marketplace for it.

• 27:44Craig Robinson?

  There is an absolute industry.

• 27:46Michelle Obama?

  People who are making money off of.

• 27:49Speaker 00

  A hundred percent.

• 27:49Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 27:50Craig Robinson?

  But until we can get these young men to sort of get away from their devices and start interacting from a communicate, communication standpoint.

• 28:01Speaker 00

  I think in any relationship, child, husband, wife, is communication is key. It's like, why did you say, I heard you say that? Why did you say that? Do you think that? Is that what you really think? It's like, really, communication is a thing. And so sometimes I say, I don't hover and I wait. Sometimes they'll come to me with something and I love that. That makes me like, I'm doing something good. When they can come and say, this happened, or.

• 28:26Speaker 00

  But you're creating a space where your kids don't feel always beat up by you, like you're helicoptering all the time and you can have open communication dialogue. Like, your friend did that, how did, why did, is that, you know, like, give them the opportunity to explain and then learn their own values from their own experiences and kind of help lead them that way. So I try that.

• 28:48Michelle Obama?

  There is, there's more helicoptering going on in parenting. I know when we were growing up, I, you know, Craig played a lot of sports, we did activities, we had parents that supported us, but they were never at every game.

• 29:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course not.

• 29:03Michelle Obama?

  They would never go to a, they were working, right? I mean, you had to figure out how to get to practice. And it wasn't an expectation. You didn't feel unloved because, and my father tried to go to as many games as he could, but that was never the expectation. You know, our parents never interfered in school, you know.

• 29:23Speaker 00

  But you knew the expectations.

• 29:24Michelle Obama?

  You knew the expectation, but it would, my, my, our parents would never intervene. And I know just from my experience raising my kids in communities of, and you've talked about seeing this as a coach, parents are really, like you said, they're heavily curating their kids' experiences rather than advising on the sideline.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:46Michelle Obama?

  You know, they're trying to stop bad things from happening or having any bad feelings happen to their kids. And Craig, you've seen this in coaching.

• 29:55Craig Robinson?

  I've seen it in coaching and I've seen it in parenting and I just can't figure it out because.

• 30:01Speaker 00

  It comes from a place of love.

• 30:03Craig Robinson?

  It comes from a place of love sometimes.

• 30:05Speaker 00

  Oh, well.

• 30:06Craig Robinson?

  Other times it comes from a place of ego. Because as I'm sure you've seen with, you know, you've got sons who've played sports at a, at a high level. For some parents, that's not just the kids' attribution, that's theirs.

• 30:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:24Craig Robinson?

  Because they weren't that athlete, but their son is, and now they're living through their son. And I just, I think you do your kids a disservice when you're...

• 30:34Speaker 00

  When you don't let them find their way?

• 30:36Craig Robinson?

  They've gotta have their own experience.

• 30:39Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 30:40Michelle Obama?

  I mean, hopefully, there's some listeners who see themselves in these kind of descriptions. And I tend to agree with Craig that, you know, I don't think we do our kids justice by not letting them learn how to, you know, take their own lumps and recover from it.

• 31:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:00Michelle Obama?

  Like, you don't want the first bump to be at 30 or 27.

• 31:05Speaker 00

  Agreed.

• 31:06Michelle Obama?

  You wanna get, you wanna let them get those bumps at 10.

• 31:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:09Michelle Obama?

  And get the seven-year-old bumps and learn how to deal with those so you can handle the 10-year-old bumps and then the 15-year-old bumps. And then by the time you're out on your own, you've learned as a child that you're capable of solving your own problems, you know?

• 31:26Speaker 00

  But the alternative is trouble.

• 31:28Michelle Obama?

  And then when a parent intervenes, you're also subconsciously telling them, "I don't think you can handle this."

• 31:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's true.

• 31:36Michelle Obama?

  Right? And so now you've got that message in their head that, "My mother doesn't even think I can figure this great situation out, so let me call her now because I don't think I can do it."

• 31:56Craig Robinson?

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• 33:24Craig Robinson?

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• 36:06Speaker 00

  You know, you're making me think of something. When my son, my oldest, first went to high school, I made a decision that I was not going to set his alarm clock. If I heard his alarm clock going off or his snooze, I was not going to go in the room and wake him up. I was not going to make him breakfast. And you know, I did a lot of that in junior high school. And I made a hard decision. But that's why I say sometimes it's from love. Your instinct is, I don't want you to be late.

• 36:33Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 36:34Speaker 00

  Let me go make sure. And then I said, if I start doing this now, his whole high school experience, I'm going to have to do this and I don't want to do that. I'd rather him have a few latenesses this week, have the teacher say something to him and let's get this over with so we can get you in a routine so that I do not have to do this for the next four years. So I made a conscious decision at the beginning of high school that I was not going to wake him up. I was not going to make him breakfast. He's going to get himself up, get his shower, make his breakfast and get on the bus and get out of here.

• 36:59Michelle Obama?

  See now, I want my, my daughters with that young man.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:04Michelle Obama?

  You know? The one who had to get up on his own and figure that out. And I do agree, this all comes from love, you know?

• 37:13Speaker 00

  Yes, for sure.

• 37:13Michelle Obama?

  I mean, it's the love of not wanting, look, look, you, you have these kids, you don't, you don't want a hair out of place. You don't want them to feel any of the negative. I get it, but that's the hard part of parenting is like you gotta let them oversleep. Mom gave us, our mom gave us alarm clocks in kindergarten.

• 37:35Speaker 00

  Oh, your mother was ahead of the curve.

• 37:36Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, because she, but she grew up with a sister that was a grown woman who had to be awakened by her father. And my mother is a middle child watching that said that that's the most ridiculous thing, that there's a grown woman who's going to work, who can't get up on her own. And she just said, that's because my father keeps, has kept, has enabled her her entire life. My, my mother had a big family, so we won't even name which aunt this was and...

• 38:04Speaker 00

  By the way, they know who they are.

• 38:06Michelle Obama?

  They know who they are. And she just said, that's not going to be you all. Yeah. Because you were capable even at five. She showed us how to work the alarms and said, you, you're now in school. This is your education. It's not mine. So you have to want this more than I want it. And I tried to carry that on, especially with the girls in the White House when there's so much. They could have grown up for eight years in some catered false environment and then they'd be turned out into the streets, right? Because it was gonna be over, right? And we weren't gonna live there. Right. That, that was my, my whole thing. And I think that's what parents have to think is the, and then what?

• 38:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:46Michelle Obama?

  What happens when they aren't in your home? And then what?

• 38:49Speaker 00

  Have you prepared them?

• 38:50Michelle Obama?

  Have you prepared them? And that's, I think that's the greatest gift. That's the love we give them. Is to do the hard thing for us early so that when they're out there, they can, they, they can really function.

• 39:03Speaker 00

  And I'll tell you something, nothing feels better than being a parent and maybe not even being sure. Oh, my God, can they handle this or he's going through.

• 39:12Michelle Obama?

  That's all it is.

• 39:12Speaker 00

  Let me sit, let me just wait.

• 39:14Michelle Obama?

  And then they actually, they come to you, oh, no, I did it. I go like, there's nothing more fulfilling as a parent than, than watching your child be able to do something on their own and handle a situation.

• 39:26Craig Robinson?

  So Angie, let's help Jessica get to that point because you said something earlier that really struck me when you said that your, your sons will come to you and ask you, what should I do in this situation? And if your son comes and says, hey, look, I'm, I'm, I'm around these toxic guys.

• 39:50Michelle Obama?

  I don't know that those words would come out, but some version, some teenage version. He's tripping.

• 39:56Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. And I, and I want to fit in with them, but I want to be, I want to do the right thing.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 40:04Craig Robinson?

  What can we tell Jessica, some tools to help her with her son?

• 40:09Speaker 00

  Um, in terms of how to answer that question?

• 40:11Craig Robinson?

  How to answer that question?

• 40:12Speaker 00

  It goes, you have to feed them, you, you answer it in a way where they're forced to answer the questions. Don't give them all the answers. Present them with situations where they have to figure out the answer and you guide them through it. Like, um, God, it's tricky because you know, you don't want to tell other people's business. But one of my friends had a problem with one of, one of his friends got into a situation. And my son said, well, do you think he did that? He was accused of something and he said, well, do you think he did that? I said, well, honestly, you spent way more time with him than, than I have. Do you think he's capable of that? What is your experience been? Why do you like him? Like, it just gave me an opportunity to get to understand how, what he values in friendship, what he values in other people.

• 40:57Speaker 00

  Uh, and I was really pleased with the way he, he answered those questions for me and it was honest. And instead of saying, we shouldn't hang out with them because they probably did, right? You know, all my stuff, it was an opportunity for me to. Have him think about what he values in friendships and human beings and people.

• 41:17Michelle Obama?

  You know, I'm smiling because Malia taught me that parenting principle very early. Three years old, she had a friend in nursery school who was just kind of not a nice girl. And was always, I'd go pick her up from nursery school and there was always some story about Anna Maria or what she did and she was mean, but they were friends and buddies. And so she's in the car seat and I'm driving and I'm just like, oh, your teacher just said Anna Maria did da, da, da, da, da. And I was like, why are you, I just laid into Anna Maria. I was like, why are you friends with her? You know, I mean, you should, she just doesn't seem nice. Aren't you tired of that?

• 41:56Speaker 00

  You knew what you would say.

• 41:58Michelle Obama?

  I was telling her my feelings about her friend. And this little kid said to me, she said, I said, well, why are you friends with her? And she says, well, you remember when I was little? I was like, yeah. It's like when I first went to kindergarten, nursery school and I didn't have any friends. She said, I said, yeah, she said, and Anna Maria was my friend. And she was my first friend. I was like, yeah. The wind is blowing out of my sail. And she said, well, you know, I can't just stop being her friend just because she doesn't do everything right. I was like, oh, you're right. You know, and, and by that, she, she, she explained to me, as you did, why she was friends with Anna Maria. And I couldn't take issue with her assessment of it.

• 42:43Michelle Obama?

  She understood at three, the situation. And it wasn't about my feelings about her and I should not have intervened. And she went on, I mean, they weren't friends forever. But that is a difficult thing because out of love, you don't want anybody messing with your three year old.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  Why are you with them? They're not worthy of your friendship.

• 43:00Michelle Obama?

  They aren't worthy, you know? But I learned that the lesson that you talked about is like, don't always interject. You know, some of the best things you can do is ask the question and, and, and, and show them that you trust their judgment about how they see the world and get in a conversation. That's for sure.

• 43:21Speaker 00

  Because we're so busy putting ourselves and our, our view of the world and our, our stuff on them, that sometimes you have to like peel back and get to know, well, who are you?

• 43:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 43:31Speaker 00

  Well, what does make you, how, what does, you know, move you and, and inspire you?

• 43:35Michelle Obama?

  That is so, I, I talked to Barack about that too, because as we, our two girls are very different, you know, and I was all, are all kids. It's like you have the first child and, you know, they're easy and talkative and all that. You think you're a great parent.

• 43:50Speaker 00

  [laughing]

• 43:51Michelle Obama?

  And then you have the second one, who is just the opposite, you know, but both my girls, I love them to death, but they are clear personalities and parenting through that is really getting to know them, you know, because they tell you, they tell you from the time they're two, three, who they are, how they think, what their temperaments are, but you've got to be a listening parent. And then you've got to accommodate to how they hear things, how they see the world. I say parenting is like fly fishing. Never been fly fishing, but from what I've seen about it, it's all in the wrist, you know? It's a very delicate balance of lure and wind and, you know, the flow of the stream. It's like nothing works the same way every time.

• 44:36Michelle Obama?

  It's elegance, right? It's not dunk and drop and grab.

• 44:40Speaker 00

  We should go fly fishing.

• 44:41Michelle Obama?

  We should go fly fishing. Better than golfing.

• 44:44Speaker 00

  No, it's so good. Anyway. It's like the Ariana Huffington, it's like one of my favorite quotes, which is the, life is the dance between making it happen and letting it happen.

• 44:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 44:55Speaker 00

  And it's really the same thing with parenting.

• 44:57Michelle Obama?

  Parenting, yeah.

• 44:58Speaker 00

  It's like, you want to protect them, you want to give them, you want to nurture them, but also you have to let them show, show you things, show you who they are, let them come to you and, and all those.

• 45:07Michelle Obama?

  Because they amaze you too.

• 45:09Speaker 00

  Yes. I love all this, I learn from my boys all the time.

• 45:12Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah. They will amaze you if you give them the space.

• 45:15Craig Robinson?

  If you allow them to, if you allow them to. Now, I want to hone in on some tools for Jessica. And what I'm hearing from the two of you is empathy.

• 45:26Michelle Obama?

  I love it as a podcast.

• 45:27Craig Robinson?

  I'm nervous.

• 45:28Michelle Obama?

  Bring it back, bring it back. Love this for you. It's like now we're fly fishing. It's like, poor Jessica, she won't know what to do. It's like, okay, Jessica, Craig is focusing.

• 45:38Craig Robinson?

  I'm just, I want to make sure.

• 45:40Speaker 00

  The good thing about Jessica is you clearly love your child. You took the time to write that eloquent, beautiful, thoughtful note, which means that you spend a lot of time thinking about and loving on your kid.

• 45:52Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 45:52Speaker 00

  And so chances are, he's gonna be okay. My mother always said, like, when my mother became a grandmother, she was like, I heard this thing about kids and I believe it. You just gotta love them, love them.

• 46:03Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 46:03Speaker 00

  You just love them till they're juicy with love.

• 46:05Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:06Speaker 00

  And the rest of that, everything you can't control, but you just love them. And so clearly, she does.

• 46:12Craig Robinson?

  But I think something that I found hard to do with my two older kids, but easier to do with the two younger is what both of you talked about, that we almost gloss over, but it's a big part of this is being empathetic.

• 46:29Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 46:30Craig Robinson?

  Seeing life through your kids' eyes.

• 46:32Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:32Craig Robinson?

  And not overreacting.

• 46:34Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 46:35Craig Robinson?

  And both of you have talked about it. And especially the point about sort of the counseling judo of asking your son the question, well, what would you do in this situation? That is so simple.

• 46:51Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 46:52Craig Robinson?

  But it's hard for people to do because some parents don't want to know the answer. If it's not the right answer.

• 46:59Michelle Obama?

  Or they're trying to guide the answer.

• 47:00Speaker 00

  Control it.

• 47:01Michelle Obama?

  They're trying to control the answer.

• 47:02Craig Robinson?

  You can't do it.

• 47:03Michelle Obama?

  If I tell you the answer, let me tell, let me give you a leading question. Let me tell you. And it's like, you know, what I would say to Jessica is mirroring what Angie said is, you know, first you gotta do the work early on to set the values, right? And you've gotta, you've gotta be modeling. And make sure that in your household, the adults that he's seeing, the conversations that you're in, so you've got to also look at the household you run and, you know, the conversations, how you carry yourself. And because that's going to be the first lessons, as the first and most important lessons are the lessons he's seeing Jessica live out.

• 47:47Michelle Obama?

  And coming from people with older kids, I'm surprised at how much is baked in. You don't know it while you're cooking up the cake.

• 47:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:57Michelle Obama?

  But as they get older, they show you, oh, you were listening.

• 48:01Speaker 00

  I know, isn't that, oh, I love that, it's my favorite.

• 48:03Michelle Obama?

  You did pick that up. You were watching, you saw me add in the buttermilk and the, you were watching the recipe happen, right? But they've got to have good things to watch.

• 48:15Michelle Obama?

  And then you've got to trust them and put them in situations where they can be hu, they can practice their humanity with people, get them off the phone. You know, make sure, the fact that he's in a room with friends and not on a phone and that they're having, if they're having a

• 48:30Speaker 00

  That's pretty good.

• 48:31Michelle Obama?

  In real person conversation with a bunch of boys, that's a good thing.

• 48:35Speaker 00

  Also, the, you know, there is this sad truth is that you could do everything right.

• 48:40Michelle Obama?

  That's, that's for sure. Life be life.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  And life just lives. Your kids make mistakes, your kids have troubles, they have hard times and it's not something that you did. You can't control the outcome of every situation. That's the hard part of parenting. That's like the heartbreaking part of parenting.

• 48:58Michelle Obama?

  You've got to think about that before you even have the baby.

• 49:00Speaker 00

  Nobody tells you that when you have the baby.

• 49:02Michelle Obama?

  I've been trying, I've been trying to tell people.

• 49:04Speaker 00

  I always say, I tell people too, because I say the one thing that pissed me off about parenting is like when I got pregnant, nobody told me, when my son was a baby, I would look at his chest to see if he was still breathing.

• 49:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 49:15Speaker 00

  I'd go in the room and I would do that for weeks. And then I said, okay, I can't sleep. When does this part stop? And the day that I realized, oh my gosh, this never stops.

• 49:24Michelle Obama?

  Ever.

• 49:24Speaker 00

  I was furious that nobody told me that. Like, this is a big deal. Like forever, I have somebody to worry about.

• 49:31Michelle Obama?

  Forever and ever, amen. I say, you know,

• 49:34Speaker 00

  I never

• 49:34Michelle Obama?

  I don't care how old.

• 49:35Speaker 00

  Life is different forever.

• 49:36Michelle Obama?

  And then they'll have grandkids and you'll feel the same way about them. So it just goes on.

• 49:40Speaker 00

  It's torturous. It's really torturous.

• 49:42Michelle Obama?

  So we gotta think about this. Yeah. Because parenting is for, you know.

• 49:44Speaker 00

  It ain't for everybody.

• 49:45Michelle Obama?

  It ain't, it ain't for suckers. It's not for suckers. You gotta be tough. You gotta, you know, you gotta be. And so we have to prepare. Jessica has to prepare her son for that life. Because life ain't for suckers, right? So he's gotta be ready because life will have challenges. And so parenting with that in mind, preparing kids for the world that they will enter, not the world that mom hopes they will have or the ones that she can manipulate to make it feel okay. Because it will never be like that. It will, at some point, her son will hit a roadblock, will have a stumble, will have a, a bad interaction. And so he has to be ready to handle that,

• 50:30Michelle Obama?

  which means that she's gotta let him practice making mistakes and having friendships that go awry and learning how to make, make, correct that. She's gotta coach and advise. She can't live his life for him. And if you, if she's thinking all along, I'm creating an adult, a full-blown adult in the world that's gonna drive a car and have other kids and work a job and be somebody's neighbor.

• 51:00Speaker 00

  And he's gonna be a man.

• 51:01Michelle Obama?

  And he's going to be a man in this world.

• 51:04Speaker 00

  He's not your little boy out in the world.

• 51:06Michelle Obama?

  Please, make these men ready. Get them ready for hurt and, and disappointment and make them resilient. Um, and you can't do that if you're monitoring his friends and, you know, trying to interfere and make life easy for him at a young age because he won't be ready for what is inevitably out there. I don't care what race he is. You know, he's gonna be a man in the world and there will be hardships and disappointments. And he's gotta be ready. I know I do that with my girls. And people say, mothers, mothers raise their girls and love their sons. And I'd say, love your son, but raise him too.

• 51:49Michelle Obama?

  Raise him to be as strong as you know he's going to have to be. You know, teach him about how to deal with a traffic stop, but also teach him how to. Communicate in a marriage and be a listening father and to, you know, be a compassionate neighbor and to be a voting citizen, you know, somebody who's gonna pay attention and care about something outside of himself, you know? And if you're, if you're thinking about that human, then all these choices become a little more clear. It's about what he needs as a grown man in the world. That, that would be.

• 52:25Speaker 00

  You should have threw a boy in the mix.

• 52:26Michelle Obama?

  I would, I'm so glad I didn't have a boy.

• 52:31Michelle Obama?

  Cause he would have been a Barack Obama.

• 52:34Speaker 00

  Baby Barack, it would have been amazing.

• 52:37Michelle Obama?

  No, I would have felt for him.

• 52:39Craig Robinson?

  She just borrowed our boys.

• 52:40Michelle Obama?

  Yes, I got plenty.

• 52:41Craig Robinson?

  She always borrowed ours.

• 52:43Michelle Obama?

  I got plenty. But what do you, did, do you think we gave enough tools?

• 52:47Craig Robinson?

  No, I think.

• 52:47Speaker 00

  I think we gave too much. I think we went, sorry if we took you on a whole roller coaster ride.

• 52:52Craig Robinson?

  This was really good.

• 52:53Michelle Obama?

  Be so sorry.

• 52:54Craig Robinson?

  This is what I will say, and, and we don't know if Jessica's married or not.

• 52:59Michelle Obama?

  It's true. We didn't hear that part about it.

• 53:01Craig Robinson?

  But that's why we have wives, cause you all know what you're talking about.

• 53:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, but y'all gotta know something too.

• 53:09Speaker 00

  You gotta contribute.

• 53:09Michelle Obama?

  Come on dude.

• 53:11Craig Robinson?

  See, here's what happens.

• 53:14Speaker 00

  That was uncalled for.

• 53:15Michelle Obama?

  Double teamed, I'm sorry, sorry. You struck a nerve with both of us.

• 53:19Craig Robinson?

  All the guys in here like.

• 53:21Speaker 00

  We both kind of leaned in.

• 53:23Craig Robinson?

  Try to be nice.

• 53:24Michelle Obama?

  It's like, yeah, don't put it all on us. It's like, that's why you have to know. You watch yourself.

• 53:30Craig Robinson?

  Jessica, I hope this was helpful, but.

• 53:33Speaker 00

  I hope so too, Jessica.

• 53:34Craig Robinson?

  I love it, I love it. And you threw something else in there at the end, says after empathy and after asking the questions, you have to trust. You have to trust the process and trust your son, so. No, I think this has been pretty good.

• 53:48Michelle Obama?

  There you go. And that's another thing.

• 53:51Speaker 00

  Prayer don't hurt.

• 53:52Michelle Obama?

  Low prayer. It's like, Jesus, please help them.

• 53:56Speaker 00

  Please help them, protect them.

• 53:59Craig Robinson?

  Well, Angie, I, I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed this.

• 54:03Speaker 00

  Really? Thank you. Thanks for having me.

• 54:05Michelle Obama?

  This is good. Thank you for coming. You are.

• 54:07Craig Robinson?

  You're a legend and thanks so much for being here.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  Thank you. Sorry to be ganged up on you in that one little moment.

• 54:13Michelle Obama?

  I don't apologize.

• 54:14Craig Robinson?

  That was perfect.

• 54:15Michelle Obama?

  I'm fine with it.

• 54:16Craig Robinson?

  That was perfect. Cause I saw, I saw my brethren out.

• 54:20Michelle Obama?

  We are, yeah, yeah.

• 54:21Craig Robinson?

  I saw my brethren out there. They, they like, you fell for the trap. You fell right into the trap.

• 54:27Speaker 00

  Thank you for having me.

• 54:28Michelle Obama?

  Hopefully we'll do this again. Yeah. Be well. Bye, Jessica. Wherever you are. Godspeed.

• 54:55Craig Robinson?

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• 55:39Craig Robinson?

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