Trust Your Creativity with Mahershala Ali

Academy Award-winning actor Mahershala Ali joins the show to discuss his upbringing in the Bay Area, his conversion to Islam, and how becoming a father has shaped his perspective on life. Plus, he talks about his new film Your Mother Your Mother Your Mother, which is out now. In this episode: Dr. Kathleen Jordan, Chief Medical Officer, of Midi Health. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  You gotta turn, I always say you gotta turn water into wine. And they don't usually give you a vineyard as a result of turning water into wine. They just give you another glass of water. And so.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  That's a bar.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  Craig Robinson, welcome to IMO.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  Thank you, Michelle Robinson Obama.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  You almost left out the Obama.

• 0:31Speaker 00

  No, I was gonna say Obama Robinson. I was like.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  You know, for a second, I thought I tried to keep Michelle Robinson Obama when I was practicing.

• 0:41Speaker 00

  It's a mouthful.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  It was just too much.

• 0:43Speaker 00

  It's a mouthful.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  How you doing?

• 0:45Speaker 00

  I'm doing really, really well.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 0:49Speaker 00

  Really well.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Feeling good, looking good?

• 0:52Speaker 00

  And excited about our guests and.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  We've got.

• 0:57Speaker 00

  Mahershala Ali.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Did you all hear that?

• 1:00Speaker 00

  I mean.

• 1:03Speaker 01

  And there's been some excitement in the studio.

• 1:06Speaker 00

  And needless to say, we don't have to say it because he, just the way he carries himself.

• 1:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  Every interview I've seen and the movies I've seen him in, it's just like, he's one of those guys. You're like.

• 1:20Speaker 00

  Ah, I wish that was me. You know? I wish that was me.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Well, let's do a proper introduction and get this conversation started.

• 1:30Speaker 00

  So Mahershala is a two-time Academy Award-winning actor, best known for his performances in Moonlight and Green Book. He can most recently be seen in Jurassic World Rebirth and in Amazon MGM's Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother in theaters nationwide. And we are gonna bring him out. You and I got a sneak peek of this movie. And we're not gonna spoil it, but you will love this movie. You will love this movie. So without further ado, Mahershala Ali.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Woo, woo, woo!

• 2:05Speaker 00

  Come join us.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  Thanks for being here.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  Looking fly, looking fly.

• 2:14Speaker 00

  Thanks for being here. Have a seat.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Let's take a fashion moment.

• 2:18Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Gene on Gene.

• 2:20Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  My Canadian tux.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, that tux is from somewhere else.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  That's a little too fly.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  I can't believe this is our first time meeting.

• 2:34Speaker 00

  Well, it's good to meet you. I've been wanting to meet you for a while.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  We did it.

• 2:38Speaker 00

  So thank you.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  So you all didn't meet each other while on Leave the World Behind?

• 2:42Speaker 00

  I wanted to meet you.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I hope people, Leave the World Behind is a.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Another good movie.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  An apocalyptic movie. It is, what, still one of the top viewed movies on Netflix.

• 2:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  That was a trip, so we were a co-producer on that, but it was during COVID.

• 3:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  So we didn't get a chance to come to set or anything like that.

• 3:06Speaker 00

  It was a strange time.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  It was a strange time. Strange movie, strange time.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  Yeah. And feeling a little too close to home right now with all the things going on around the world.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  It was funny because when folks found out that we were a part of that, one of the big questions rockets is, did you get involved with that movie because you know something? You know, I mean, everyone, it's usually the number one question he gets is, are there, is there life on other planets? And now it's, were you trying to tell us something in that movie? Do you get that? Do people, do you, do people have that reaction?

• 3:42Speaker 00

  I haven't gotten that. I haven't gotten that, you know, because, you know, just my job in general is to deal in fantasy. So, you know, I think I get a pass.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  So are you, are you a shelter guy or are you a, let's just get to higher ground somewhere guy?

• 3:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, boy. You know what? I'm a little bit of a recluse, so I think I would be more of a shelter guy.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  You would be?

• 4:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Are you prepping?

• 4:07Speaker 00

  You know, I probably should.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  Stuff that's happening with our food all the time and things that are going on, I feel like I need to find where all the good stuff is at and start growing my own things and. And you know.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  No joke.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  Sometimes things feel a little uncomfortable out there.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, they do.

• 4:26Speaker 00

  But yeah.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  Well, on a brighter note, where is home?

• 4:30Speaker 00

  Home is in Los Angeles. Yeah, so, so home is Los Angeles, which I love. I'm from the Bay Area originally, and so California speaks to me in some way. Like, I feel, feel very comfortable with the, sort of the quality of life and the space. The people are very familiar to me. LA and the Bay Area are very different in terms of like how the people kind of roll a bit, but, but there's something in the spirit of California that definitely speaks to me in the West Coast in general.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're spending more and more time in LA.

• 5:03Speaker 00

  Every time, we're like, why don't we live out there?

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I think we've lost our daughters to California.

• 5:11Speaker 00

  Are they in California?

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's the same thing. I mean, you know, they've spent time in New York a bit, Chicago, DC, but there's just a real, because they like the outdoors, they like the, you know, just the active nature of life and, you know, I think, I think that's it.

• 5:30Speaker 00

  You can make it your own in a way. Like you can, like you can, if you, if you wanna be outside, you wanna be in it. It's, or just in nature, there's something about California where the sun and the light, the trees and the mountains, it just, it just really resonates.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  You know?

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Well, you say, you seem like a peaceful dude anyway.

• 5:53Speaker 00

  I try to be.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Like, I'm just, you know, your voice is taking me to the ocean and to the mountains. Already, you just have that way.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  So you, you grew up in the Bay?

• 6:10Speaker 00

  Grew up in the Bay Area.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Now, how would you describe that, that childhood? What was, what was, what was the Bay life like?

• 6:17Speaker 00

  Oh, man. The Bay was complicated when I was growing up. I grew up right outside of Oakland in a little city called Hayward. So a lot was going on in the eighties when I was coming up in Oakland. A lot was going on in a lot of major cities throughout the country then. And so my mom was very conscious about where she was raising me because she didn't want me dealing with certain elements. She was very protective in that way. But I was outside. I was in the streets. I was on my bike. Me and my cousins were BMX racers. So we would be, for, from when I was four to 10 years old, we were on our bikes every single weekend or at a race, competing like in organized BMX sports.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  Or then after that, I transitioned into playing baseball and basketball. And so it was a lot of like sports, a lot of athletics, very healthy, competitive things going on and outside.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  BMX bikes, did you have?

• 7:16Speaker 00

  I had a mini mongoose to start out with.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  I don't know what that is.

• 7:22Speaker 00

  Then I was on the Schwinn team as a young kid for a while and.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  So you were sponsored.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We were, we were, we were on teams and competitive and ranked and all that kind of stuff.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  For people who don't know BMX.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  Bicycle motocross.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  What is, what is, and what is that?

• 7:39Speaker 00

  So now it's an Olympic sport, but we were dirt tracks.

• 7:45Speaker 00

  We were doing a lot of it in Fremont, California and Sonol, but these dirt tracks with.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Big jumps.

• 7:51Speaker 00

  Jumps and whoop-de-whoops. So growing up, we were, we were like racing every weekend for about, I was doing that for the first like six years of my, from four to 10. And then around 10 years old, I started playing basketball and focusing on basketball.

• 8:08Speaker 02

  And what drew you to basketball?

• 8:13Speaker 00

  I was probably better in football. And, but at a certain point, it was two things. My mom didn't love me playing football and I was also dealing with, I was growing out of asthma at that time. And so there was like, I would deal with it seasonally.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 8:27Speaker 00

  A bit. And so, so I just started focusing more on basketball.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 8:33Speaker 00

  And it, it just worked out for me, you know? It was, I kind of was a kid who, who could have done anything. I kind of put my focus on in terms of sports.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:43Speaker 00

  But I ended up being more in basketball.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that's, that's a little bit of a humble brag.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  I know, right?

• 8:48Speaker 00

  I like that.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  It's just like, you were good at a lot of things.

• 8:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. So now, what AAU team did you play for?

• 8:55Speaker 00

  So I was played for a coach by the name of Donovan Blythe back in the Bay Area. I think our team was, was, we were.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  We were kind of based in San Mateo, which is right over the bridge. But we had a lot of great players on that team.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  Who went on to have a lot of success. From Jason Kidd to a gentleman by the name of Phil Handy.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:22Speaker 00

  Who is also a coach now, works with LeBron, or I think he might be at Philly now.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  Out of the 13 of us on that team, 11 got Division One scholarships.

• 9:35Speaker 02

  That's a good team.

• 9:36Speaker 00

  So we had a, we had a nice squad.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  And so you ended up going to St. Mary's.

• 9:40Speaker 00

  I ended up going to St. Mary's, yeah.

• 9:41Speaker 02

  On scholarship.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  But I got recruited by a lot of WCC schools.

• 9:45Speaker 02

  But I didn't start coaching at Oregon State until 2000.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  Okay. Nine-ish?

• 9:52Speaker 02

  Six, six, eight, 2008. So you were gone by then.

• 9:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  But I'm sure I saw you play. I'm sure.

• 9:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Was your mother one of your, your big fans? Was she into your?

• 10:05Speaker 00

  My mother was very into my spirit. My mother was very into my spiritual well-being and growth.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:15Speaker 00

  Like basketball was very peripheral to her.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:18Speaker 00

  It was.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  Look, she.

• 10:24Speaker 00

  The most important thing to her was what, what is my relationship to God? Like, period.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:31Speaker 00

  You know, and I say that with the utmost respect and, and appreciation, especially now. You know, raising a kid, a daughter, and having a nine-year-old. But I, I'm very appreciative of what her focus was. It wasn't necessarily my focus for you at that time, because I just wanted to go play ball. You know, and that was, that's what my priority was. But her focus was always about my spiritual well-being.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  What did that look like and feel like in the house every day?

• 11:06Speaker 00

  Church retreats.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  The full-on church movement.

• 11:10Speaker 00

  Long drive to church on Sunday and, and being there half the day. And coming back. It meant, you know, stop, we gotta make prayer before you go off and go to school.

• 11:24Speaker 00

  Her mom was an ordained minister.

• 11:29Speaker 00

  And my mother's sister is. My mother started and has a ministry. And so, and I saw, my mother had me young.

• 11:39Speaker 00

  And I think I saw her essentially, I don't want to say revert, but really grow up in her own way and embrace her faith and become a fully conscious adult. And so.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  How old was, was she when you had her, when she had you?

• 12:01Speaker 00

  It was 16, when she had me. And so, she's in her late twenties. You know, she is, she's reading different. And sitting down and present at home in a different way, you know? Cause there was a period of time there where it was just me and my mother. And I was, she was, I remember her graduating from beauty college and being a cosmetologist and styling hair for years and sort of being on this grind.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:32Speaker 00

  And she was great at what she did. Like she was a wonderful hairstylist. And still did hair from home at a certain point after she got remarried.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  But then I think that also gave her space to sort of, of take her eyes a little bit off of a certain type of work and begin to dig into what I think she felt her nature was. So yeah, it was interesting just seeing my mother, experiencing my mother come into herself. And what that means when you, your parents sort of convert or revert, you do too on some level. You know, because you're impacted by now what the, what those new revealing boundaries are. You know, as they come into their own.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Did you bristle against it?

• 13:21Speaker 00

  A hundred percent, a hundred percent. Yeah, I felt.

• 13:26Speaker 00

  Because I think you begin to go.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  I think

• 13:34Speaker 00

  kids get very familiar with what.

• 13:40Speaker 00

  Kids are gonna naturally push the boundaries, right?

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:43Speaker 00

  And I think if you feel like you're allowed to do something for a while, then suddenly you're not. Or gradually you're not. You feel like you're already not allowed to do certain things as you grow up. Because now you're coming into a certain type of consciousness. And it's like, okay, you're no longer permitted to do X, Y, and Z, just because you're too old to be doing that, right? But then on top of that, there's this, there's this other doctrine that is, that is becoming a real part of your home. And so, at the same time, you're going through puberty.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:14Speaker 00

  You like, you wanna be like dating the girls now and out there with your buddies. And suddenly, your mom is like, oh no, that ain't happening at all. And you're like, what?

• 14:25Speaker 01

  It's like, when, when, how did we get here?

• 14:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:29Speaker 00

  And so I think that that was a bit of a shock to my system. But again, when I, when I look back, I'm very grateful though. Because I appreciate where I'm at right now. Where I'm at is not perfect.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 00

  But I appreciate where I'm at and I appreciate my journey to where I'm at. And I think it would be hard to be here if,

• 14:57Speaker 00

  if I had sort of free rein.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  In the way in which my nature wanted that.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:04Speaker 00

  As a kid.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  It's funny how you come to that as an adult.

• 15:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  But as a kid, you're like.

• 15:10Speaker 00

  You're not trying to hear it.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  These dudes on my neck.

• 15:13Speaker 00

  But I think generationally in some ways,

• 15:19Speaker 00

  this youth is very different from my youth. You know?

• 15:26Speaker 00

  The type of trouble was different. You know? And so.

• 15:34Speaker 00

  I have, you have to give a certain, in my consciousness now, I have to really give a certain type of grace.

• 15:41Speaker 00

  Because of, I just think what we were coming out of in that time, just sort of as a generation, but as a people, and parents having to navigate a lot of fear. So I, I, I, I do walk with a lot of gratitude for, for, for many of the things my mother was specifically trying to emphasize for me and keep me mindful of.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Did it make you resentful of religion in any way?

• 16:17Speaker 00

  It didn't make me resentful of religion. But I think if anything,

• 16:25Speaker 00

  I, I, my nature is to question.

• 16:29Speaker 00

  And so I just, if anything, it just made me

• 16:34Speaker 00

  want even more, if, if I'm gonna be impacted by this, then I need some answers.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's like, let's break it down.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  Right? I need to be able to break it down. And so, for me,

• 16:49Speaker 00

  well, this is just how it is, was not a good enough answer for me. You know what I mean? Or if there were like bridges that needed to be sort of created so that you go from not knowing to knowing, I really needed help with that bridge. And so, I can be hard-headed in a way, or persistent in a way, that upon leaving home,

• 17:18Speaker 00

  I still felt naturally and very intuitively and instinctively on my journey for some answers for myself beyond what I was just told, you know?

• 17:32Speaker 00

  And so, so I think in that way, I feel very comfortable in my skin

• 17:40Speaker 00

  in relation to sort of the conversation around religion and my mother or anyone, just because of, it's just my own journey. And at least, right or wrong, it's, it's what I am, what I believe is a result of my own path. Opposed to one that has been necessarily carved for me.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:00Speaker 00

  And given to me, that I needed certain things answered that allowed the world of the seen and the unseen to make sense to me. You know?

• 18:19Speaker 02

  This episode is brought to you by Duluth Trading Company. The Duluth Trading Company makes gear for people who work their butts off. And hard work looks different for everyone. For me, over these last few months, it's been hauling around furniture in between rooms for these home renovations we've been doing, which honestly has felt like a full workload.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Oh, you were actually?

• 18:44Speaker 02

  I'm actually doing stuff. I'm actually doing stuff.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  You know, what are you doing?

• 18:48Speaker 02

  I'm building tables.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  That doesn't count as home construction. That's not renovation.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  I'm doing a lot of demo work. You know what demo means?

• 18:58Speaker 01

  I do, no.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  Means demolition.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  You have done no, you've done no demo work. I doubt that you've been.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, when they do demo work, they allow you to come in and swing the hammer and knock some stuff out.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  That's swinging the hammer and knocking a thing out. That's not the demo work. I can't, I'm gonna call, we need to call Kelly for this.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  What's hard work look like for you these days?

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Well, these days, hard work is, you know, just having a full schedule. I think in the spring, I went from

• 19:27Speaker 02

  Vacation.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  LA, no. I went from LA to Toronto, back to LA, to Philly, to London, back to New York. I mean, Chicago, all in the span of a few weeks. So that's hard work.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  See, that's the thing. Your hard work looks nothing like mine.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  And I think the hard work you think you're doing is nothing like the hard work you think you're doing.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  You know, see, I've been doing these renovations. I've been doing these little, little, little.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  You got your little tool belt. I don't even know, you don't even have any tools in your tool belt.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  I got my tools here.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  This isn't even, like, this is the hammer we had when we were three. You know, what are you doing with this hammer?

• 20:14Speaker 02

  Look at my screwdriver, I got my screwdriver here.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  This is, people, an untouched, unused hammer.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  I got my Duluth.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  These are brand new.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  I got my Duluth Trading tool belt here.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  Take a look at my belt.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  The belt is clean, y'all. It's untouched.

• 20:29Speaker 02

  Don't mess with me.

• 20:30Speaker 01

  It doesn't have any demolition dust on it.

• 20:32Speaker 02

  You know, but.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Were you not wearing that belt during demolition? Is that why it's so clean?

• 20:37Speaker 02

  It's clean because it's relatively new.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  It's unused, people.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  It's relatively new, people.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  It's not used because he doesn't use it.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  You know, I found myself having to hop on a quick video meeting for the podcast.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  In between all your dirt work?

• 20:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I still want to look put together. So that's why I wear my Duluth shirt.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  That is a nice shirt.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  This is a nice shirt. And you can wear this when you're doing your renovation work.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  So this is for your post-renovation work? Because this is clean, too.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  This is new. I have to say, this is new. I haven't worn this while I was doing my renovation, yeah.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  But you could, you could have that dusted off. And then you'd undust it and you'd look like you were ready for a meeting.

• 21:26Speaker 02

  I would, I would. I mean, I would wear this.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  No, it's good. That's a good quality. It feels sort of sweet. Like, it feels like you shouldn't get this dirty.

• 21:34Speaker 02

  I know, but it's very rugged and can handle it. But all kidding aside, Meech, that's the beauty of the Duluth Trading Company. I might not be putting in a full day dealing with heavy machinery like Dad used to do.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  You certainly are not.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  But I still want clothes that give me comfort, no matter what my day throws at me. What I love the most about Duluth is how much they've put into the tiniest details in their gear. Everything has extra pockets, or is moisture-wicking, or layers really well to regulate your temperature. There's a reason I'm always reaching for their stuff in my closet. They're here for people who work their butts off.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Unlike my brother.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Just like they do. Duluth Trading Company. Shop online or visit one of their 60-plus stores nationwide today.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Do you approach spirituality differently with your daughter? Or how do you and your wife approach it?

• 22:39Speaker 00

  I think in some way, forgive the word, but I do think that it is our responsibility, if you feel that you have discovered a truth in the same way that my mother has felt that way, that I think on some level is your job to sort of indoctrinate your children in that same thing.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  To give them a foundation of something.

• 23:04Speaker 00

  With the opening of, the reality is, though, this has to be your choice at a certain point.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:14Speaker 00

  This is what I know and believe to be true. But at some point, you're gonna have to make this your own. So I'm doing that with being fully aware of the reality that she may or may not grow up to agree with how I see the world. But that can't be the difference between us being close and not being close. You know?

• 23:42Speaker 01

  You're just, you're modeling a way to be on this journey.

• 23:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. And at the end of the day, I just hope, I hope the Creator is happy with her and the choices that she makes.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Are you close with your mom today?

• 23:58Speaker 00

  We are much closer now. And I'm so, I'm so grateful for it. Like, we are, we have, we had our moments where, because of many of those things, and me needing to make my life my own. I think that there was definitely a break there. But I think, over time, we just have come together closer and closer and closer. And I couldn't be more grateful for that. Like, I can get emotional about it because I could just feel, she's like a magnet.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  Can you tell us about your father?

• 24:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, my father, so my parents were together for three years.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 24:39Speaker 00

  And they met at church and in high school. My father, they couldn't be more different, especially as they, like, they age, you know? My father was in musical theater. And so he ended up getting into New York because he won this national dance contest on Soul Train in 1970, October.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  I bet we were watching.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  We were watching. Actually, Meech was watching for sure. I might have been outside, but she was watching for sure.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  So I think it was October 1976. I have his letter from Johnson & Johnson. And so he passed when I was 20, before I really started acting.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  And at this point in time, sorry to cut you off, but at this point in time, at all, were you thinking about acting? Or performing, or?

• 25:26Speaker 00

  Well, I did a play my sophomore year in that first semester. And I told my dad about it, and I was really excited. And I remember him telling all his friends, he got the bug. He got the acting bug. And that sort of aligned with, at that time, I was writing a lot of poetry. And I was dealing with insomnia and some stuff, so I'd stay up really late writing poems. Sort of like, that just, it felt like the thing to do. And it just, it just gave me so much joy, that self-expression like that. And finding the words for what I was experiencing and feeling at that time.

• 26:10Speaker 00

  And those, funny enough, were like my first monologues. And I didn't know that at the time, but they ended up, I even auditioned for grad school with my poems. And so, so my father, when I would, right at the end of his life, when I'd go visit him, he would have me, like, perform my poetry for his handful of friends that were coming by and visiting and whatnot. And so, as he passed away, it was like, that's when I, shortly thereafter, found myself doing theater not too long after taking an acting class.

• 26:53Speaker 00

  And then my senior year, I did a play called Spunk. That was, that was originally done by George C. Wolfe on Broadway and whatnot. But we were doing it on our campus. It was the first black play they'd ever done at St. Mary's College. And people freaked out. Because there wasn't a lot of black students on campus. It was like a, it was like a moment. But we tore it down. That play was a huge success. And from that play, I got to do California Shakespeare Festival immediately upon graduating. And that's when I ended up auditioning for grad school and got into NYU. So it kind of like unfolded in a really.

• 27:37Speaker 00

  Sort of serendipitous.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:39Speaker 00

  The way like it just kind of happened, but it wasn't. And I think, you know, I learned a lot. My father did Dreamgirls, for instance, and traveled for years.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  He was with Alvin Ailey?

• 27:51Speaker 00

  He was, he was, I think he studied at Alvin Ailey for a while. He studied at Dance Theater of Harlem.

• 28:00Speaker 00

  He did a handful of musicals, Five Guys Named Mo. I remember like Omnibus, American Dance Machine. Like there's plays and parts I remember from like a young kid. But so I'd always known him to be working or working on working. And I saw a really sort of almost blue collar approach to. Like people think it's very glamorous and when you start going, it's very easy. But I always saw my father hustling and doing workshops and picking up extra work. And then being in swing and like backing up people in big shows. And then having his moment as James Thunder early traveling, you know, the states in the national tour of Dreamgirls or whatnot.

• 28:42Speaker 00

  But I always saw him working to really put it together. And looking for this like larger moment. And so I had such a respect growing up for that grind that I saw him sort of on.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  At any point, like most basketball players, were you thinking about, well, when I get done with this, I'm gonna go overseas and play? And or you never thought about that because you had already tasted a little bit of this and thought, okay, this is the path I want to take.

• 29:13Speaker 00

  If I be really honest with you.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  I think I was a, I think I was an athlete who had an artist's heart.

• 29:25Speaker 00

  And so while I was.

• 29:28Speaker 00

  And I think I'd sort of, I played all four years. I was on scholarship all four years, but I think part of me gave up early.

• 29:38Speaker 00

  I didn't feel like I was in a situation where I was necessarily being coached up. And how I am, I sort of saw behind the curtain. And I think I got disheartened by the business of college sports. I kind of started seeing the stepping stone element of it. That if this coach does well here, they're really just trying to take off and go to another school. Which is not anyone's fault, cool. But I think if you didn't kind of come ready made, it was you could kind of get shuffled off in the corner. And other kids would be invested in that felt like they were coming ready to play. I'm not saying that was the case for every coach.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  But that's fair.

• 30:21Speaker 00

  But it kind of felt like what I was seeing and sort of experiencing. And some of the other guys were sort of experiencing that like, oh, you're not what I thought you were. Put you over here, let's get this, let's replace you.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 30:34Speaker 00

  And so I was like, oh, nah, I'm gonna invest in this thing that's giving back to me. This got me where I wanted to go. I'm in college. I gotta show up, I gotta do my job. But the reality is this is gonna be it for me.

• 30:53Speaker 00

  And so the thing that gave me so much joy, though, were things in the creative space. It was like I was discovering the arts. You know, from, from, it was, it was that poetry slam movement and moment and like in an era. You know, where I was seeing these extraordinary poets like Saul Williams. And, you know, that were just on television, on Def Jam Poetry or whatever. It was starting to like do extraordinary things and had really profound thoughts and a view on the world, you know?

• 31:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  And so that type of path, like something in the arts, I was doing music a lot then. I was writing rhymes. I was, I was just trying to do, I was just being creative. And so even if it meant I ended up at an advertising firm or, or in a creative writing program at Berkeley after St. Mary's, like I was gonna go in a more creative space. And, and, and then I was, I did think about law school, though, because.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  There's a performative nature to it.

• 32:02Speaker 00

  There's something in advocating.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  You know, there's something in seeing another side, seeing a point of view and being an advocate for somebody, right? So that, that's, I was beginning to like get into that space. And so I could see the finite nature of sports. Like it was clear as day to me. And that scared me in a really healthy way, I think. And so I started like really urgently looking for other ways to find fulfillment and therefore working and beginning to sort of draft a future for myself.

• 32:46Speaker 00

  And so I'm really grateful for that incubator.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  Of college.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:54Speaker 00

  And all the, the realities around someone, something looking a certain way and learning that like, oh, this is not what it is. Like that's the world.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:04Speaker 00

  It's the best education you can actually get.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 33:07Speaker 00

  It breaks people, unfortunately.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, a lot of times it does.

• 33:10Speaker 00

  It can break people, unfortunately. But if you can survive it and navigate it and be okay coming out of it, it can kind of give you sort of the necessary calluses to be able to handle the weight of the world moving forward.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  And so I don't think, I, I wouldn't really change anything about that experience, you know? I'm very grateful of, of getting that really honest.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  Reality check.

• 33:52Speaker 02

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• 36:15Speaker 01

  This episode of IMO is brought to you by our sponsor, Midi Health. I remember it was first term in the White House and they just would come on. And I talked to my doctor about it. It's like, oh, you're in that, that's what's going on. And I wasn't sure, you know, I didn't feel like I needed to start taking hormones. I wanted to feel it out and see what it felt like. But these hot flashes were happening every 15 minutes. You know, and it's this rush of a feeling. I mean, the minute I started replacing hormones, it was like back to my old self. And, you know, it's, you think it's magic, but you're losing hormones and you need them replaced.

• 36:55Speaker 01

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• 37:51Speaker 01

  What was the apprenticeship like at the Shakespeare Theater?

• 37:55Speaker 00

  My former professor, the teacher who had directed me in Spunk, came to me and said, hey, some people saw you from the California Shakespeare Festival. And they want you to come go and audition. I was like, I don't have no pieces to audition with.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Shakespeare?

• 38:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Was it all, was it Shakespeare?

• 38:14Speaker 00

  Oh, Shakespeare.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  All of it?

• 38:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was Shakespeare. So I, I remember doing two poems that I had written. And, and I remember the program was, it was $2,000.

• 38:33Speaker 00

  And they gave me a scholarship, so I got to go for free. And they gave me a part on the main stage in Henry V. So I got to play a character by the name of Montjoy. And I didn't know what I was doing. Cause again, I've been acting all of five minutes.

• 38:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:53Speaker 00

  But they gave me a lot of love and I got to be with the, sort of in the apprentice group in the day. Then I got to be on the main stage with the professional actors at night. I remember a gentleman by the name, I think his name was Martin Kildare, who had gone to NYU.

• 39:11Speaker 00

  And between him and a really important professor I had from undergrad by the name of Victoria Trussell, I'd gotten a card from her that told me that I needed to go to grad school for acting. She had saw me in Spunk and she said, you should, you, you need to seek essentially higher education in this. I was like, huh. And I still, I have that card literally with me to here. Cause I, it's in my, I have my scripts for this, this show that I'm working on right now. But, so that card is 30 years old. So between Victoria's card and again, I believe her name was Martin Kildare. Martin telling me like, yo, you need to go to grad school. I was like, okay, I did Cal Shakespeare that summer.

• 39:54Speaker 00

  They'd offered me a part for the next season in the professional company. So I was getting a lot of really positive signs for, again, I'm just coming out of playing basketball. So this is new information to me. And so I'm getting, I'm getting my life signs.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:11Speaker 00

  But my experience there gave me a lot of hope and a lot of confidence. And it just, it was like a lot, like I said, life signs and sort of telling me like, yo, you're in the right space.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  How did you feel doing Shakespeare? I mean, how did you learn that? What, and what did you learn from that different from the, what you even learned at Tisch? Or what you learned, you know, in college?

• 40:34Speaker 00

  I had a teacher in high school by the name of Sherri Louise. And that was my senior year. I'll never forget this. And we had, it was a Shakespeare class, actually.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  This was high school?

• 40:48Speaker 00

  This is high school.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 40:50Speaker 00

  And we started like, so there's this like,

• 40:55Speaker 00

  sort of general belief around Shakespeare that it's all this,

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  you know, really elevated language and it's very hard to understand. And part of her class was just like breaking down what it all meant.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  Right, this is the language they're speaking.

• 41:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:10Speaker 00

  And that class is even what really got me into writing my own poetry. But I'll never forget, I've never actually really talked about this. But that class excited me so much that impacted how I got, I got straight A's that semester and a D. And the reason I got the D was there was some like overview of history or something like that. We had the, part of it was like the states. We had to go through all the states and I was so excited. I was doing so well that semester. I swear to God, I was. Before the class, I was in class early and I'm so excited. And I'll get back to the poetry thing, but I was so excited.

• 41:55Speaker 00

  I'd written down all the states on the desk. Cause I'd had my whole system, okay, like, cause it was just a larger general exam or something. And then next thing you know, she's passing the tests out.

• 42:07Speaker 00

  And I see her get to my aisle and I realized what that looked like.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:11Speaker 00

  I was like, oh God. And I started like erasing them. And she sees me and she flunked me for that final. And I wasn't cheating, but she thought I was cheating. So, but my larger point was that I was so excited through.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  You were on top of everything.

• 42:30Speaker 00

  Like something opened up in my mind from, and really inspired me from taking this Shakespeare class, that it ended up impacting all my other classes. And then what I was doing to sort of deal with my own stuff was I started writing.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it's like with dancers, when they learn, when they learn the movement and the movement, it's no longer a routine.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  It, they, they embody it.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  You know, you, you forget about the steps. It's just be, it becomes part of your muscle memory.

• 43:04Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  And Shakespeare, it sounds like that's.

• 43:07Speaker 00

  It absolutely.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  But there's something about, you know, you as an athlete, you know, you as a, as the son of an entertainer. Even your, your mother as an ordained Baptist minister. You know, there is performance and movement and all of that, you know, to, to give a sermon, right?

• 43:28Speaker 00

  And growing up seeing that in churches, you know, I think, I'm glad you said that. Like I hadn't really put that together, but there is something to, to being in the audience and your attention being on someone who is telling a story.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:42Speaker 00

  Like every week, over and over again. And to the point where you walk in there with an expectation of being told a story that day and going, how was it today? How did that impact me today? Did that message resonate with me today? What did he or she do to like arc that out and get to this climactic point where people are like stomping and like out of their seats and maybe crying or whatever that might be. That there's, there is a tie there between Shakespeare and the pulpit. You know, and that I definitely grew up experiencing that. So it, it felt, I felt like I was at home, you know? I really did. I felt like I was at home in a way that.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  You were ironically built for it, you know?

• 44:28Speaker 02

  In a different way, in an odd way, yeah.

• 44:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  And, and you were converting at this time?

• 44:36Speaker 00

  So I did, I converted once I got to, it was in my third year of grad school.

• 44:43Speaker 00

  It was at the end of the first semester. And I had just gotten to the point where I was just asking myself a lot of tough questions. And I was really trying to investigate why I believed what I believed.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  What was causing it? Was there something?

• 44:58Speaker 00

  Grad school.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:59Speaker 00

  Grad school, especially in acting program.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:03Speaker 00

  They like, they, their job, they feel is to break you down and like make you start over.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:10Speaker 00

  Because they're looking for anything that is getting in your way or all these preconceived beliefs and notions about yourself and who you think you are. And you could just, you could see it. You could see it in other people, you know, the things that are blocking them. And so they are like poking and prodding to, to help you build yourself back up and to give you your own language to help you learn how you learn.

• 45:40Speaker 00

  And I think in that process,

• 45:45Speaker 00

  I just started asking myself, you know, why I believed what I believed. And I began to go on my own sort of exploration as to

• 45:58Speaker 00

  what I'm supposed to be doing and how I'm supposed to be moving in the world and relating to what I see and what I don't see. And, you know, that led me to a mosque in Philadelphia. And then I was in one in New York. And in both experiences, I was, I go to make prayer and I'm just in the row with everybody else. And they start praying, I just start crying. I'm like, this is weird, why am I crying? Like I, I, cause I didn't, I wasn't sad or anything. I was actually extraordinarily happy at that time. You know, I felt like I was in my purpose in terms of,

• 46:39Speaker 00

  I, I felt good in, in terms of how I was beginning to define myself and my relationship to how I was feeling and what I was beginning to call my work and everything. So I was like, why, this is weird. And the next week I woke up, it just happened to be December 31st, 1999. And I was like, I woke up, I said, I gotta go to the mosque. And it was a Friday. And I was back in Brooklyn.

• 47:11Speaker 00

  So I go to the corner store. I know those dudes were Muslim. And I go, I was like, hey, peace, brother, peace, peace. Hey, I go, I wanna go to the mosque, where's the mosque? He looked at me crazy. He was like, the mosque? I was like, yeah. He goes, Omar's going. And there's a brother right behind him, like, you know, the New York bodega, there's always like some random dude there reading the newspaper or something. And he goes, Omar's going, but I knew it was like close to time. So anyway, I went back, I knew you had to be clean. I didn't know how to make what's called woo-doo or your evolution at that time, but I just knew you had to be clean. So I went and showered. And I was like, I'll be right back. I borrowed my roommate's car, who was out of town at that time.

• 47:55Speaker 00

  And I drove with Omar to the mosque. And off of Atlantic Avenue. And we go in there and it's packed to the nines. Cause it's holidays, everybody's out of school and whatnot. It is packed. And I ended up in the back somewhere near the radiator or something. And I'm just like squished. And they start the prayer again and suddenly immediately I'm like, just crying. I'm like, dang, what is going on? And I was just thinking, I didn't know enough about the faith at that time. I knew some real basics.

• 48:31Speaker 00

  But I remember thinking about how I grew up and they would open the doors to the church. And I was like, I don't think they do that in Islam and they don't. And I remember making the prayer, I finished. And this guy was probably around my age. He turns to me and I'm separated from Omar. It was so packed, we couldn't even stand together. Like, I don't know where Omar is. And this brother turns to me and he goes, "Are you Muslim?" I said, "No." He goes, "Do you wanna be?"

• 49:07Speaker 00

  And I was like,

• 49:09Speaker 00

  "Yeah."

• 49:11Speaker 00

  Long story short, he stops me and he goes up to the Imam and he whispers something in his ear. And everyone just stops and, you know, brings me up. And, um, you know, asked me, "Was that true?" And I was like, "Yeah." And he, you know, "All praise due to God and God is the greatest." And like, you know, there's people like, you know, kinda celebrating the moment. And then I took what's called my Shahada. Just my, my, my, my declaration of faith. And he's like, "You Muslim now."

• 49:42Speaker 00

  I was like, "Okay." I mean, that's where the work starts. But like, um, and then Omar, he was just crying his eyes out. He was like, "Oh, you have so many chances. You have so many chances." And so, um, yeah, so now I'm here playing a Muslim in a movie.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  What do you think people, uh, we're talking about Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother, which Craig and I, we, we'd started talking about at the top of the podcast, um, how it impacted us. You know, beautiful story. The young actress who plays your daughter. Adia.

• 50:19Speaker 00

  From DC.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Talk a bit about it. Describe what the movie is.

• 50:23Speaker 00

  The film is, is, bear with me, but it's a, it's about a man who

• 50:30Speaker 00

  recently widowed. Who is on the urgent search for breast milk for his daughter.

• 50:41Speaker 00

  And while he's on the search for this breast milk for his daughter, he is being hunted. And my character happens to be a hitman. And so, the way that the film moves, the way that he's trying to protect his children, his three children. Cause he has two, he has a teenage daughter, a young son around 10 or 11 and an infant. But he's trying to protect his children and get his, get his infant daughter what she needs. While he's also essentially under duress and under attack throughout the film. And trying to sort of get them all to a, a place of safety.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, there is nothing like it. Um, because the depth of story.

• 51:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Uh, the complexity of this situation, you know? The questioning of religion and faith.

• 51:36Speaker 00

  Of his own faith.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Period.

• 51:38Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  Right?

• 51:39Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Is deeper than just an action movie. You know, not to, as you was, no diss to action movies. But, you know, there is depth and story here.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  I started watching it and I was not prepared for how much.

• 51:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  How, how, how complex it was. I was not ready for that.

• 52:00Speaker 00

  Or the butt whoopery.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  The butt whoopery of it all.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  Was excellent.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  The butt, see, we're just the opposite. I usually do not like butt, butt whoopery. I do not like seeing people get hit in the face.

• 52:12Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  You know, I just don't enjoy it. When Craig was like, "You're not gonna like this, but you will."

• 52:17Speaker 02

  I told her, "You're not gonna like it, but you're gonna like it."

• 52:19Speaker 01

  And he was absolutely correct. Um, is there, is there a reason you chose to do this particular film?

• 52:30Speaker 00

  I, I think the, the breadth of that character and what he is asked to do with that family experience is, I think the heart and point of that story.

• 52:43Speaker 00

  And to go back to the action element, I've been like really, really, really deeply wanting to, to do.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Some butt kickery?

• 52:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, as I've, I've got to be in a few films that had like the action element to it.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:00Speaker 00

  If we put Jurassic aside, because I almost don't count that. It's more of an adventure story.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Well, and you're like some old man in that. That is not you. It's like, you look, you look like somebody's uncle.

• 53:10Speaker 00

  There you go. But like with that aside, I'm not, I didn't get to.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  Everything I've been in that's had the action element to it, my characters honestly have died before the action started. Or if it's just to the action. I'm like, "Oh, I died now I'm mocking Jason. How everything happens." Or like, you know, one of the old jokes, the first black, first person dies, the black guy. They have the predators almost.

• 53:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:33Speaker 00

  So, I, it, you know, I hadn't got to do it yet. And so being, I guess, a former athlete, there was this element where I almost assumed at some point that it just, that's gonna happen. So that would be part of my journey as well. The thing I felt I would probably have to fight against that.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:54Speaker 00

  You know, because quickly, once you do something in the business, then so often it can be like, that's what you do.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  Right?

• 54:01Speaker 02

  Pigeon hole.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  And so I almost assumed that that would naturally be something that I would end up probably doing. And I just have never done it.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  You know, I, I have to, I have to ask you about the toughness of black actors finding things like Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother, that are, that. This was written for you.

• 54:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  Aside from this, but how hard is it for you to find stuff to do

• 54:29Speaker 02

  prior to you hitting it big? And now that you've sort of won a couple of Academy Awards? My sister hates when I ask those preset questions.

• 54:39Speaker 00

  No, that's a good question. I think it would almost be like,

• 54:44Speaker 00

  it's very challenging finding, being a, a, a coach.

• 54:51Speaker 00

  Finding the systems that support your talents. It's a difficult balance to strike cause I also have a family, you know? And I also have, I have a child and I have.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Gotta eat.

• 55:00Speaker 00

  Responsibilities, you know? And so. So I think it's,

• 55:07Speaker 00

  we're not, we're not the first who they think of. It's just not, we're not centered in the business in that way. I mean, ask an actor like Viola Davis. Come on, there's not a lot of people better than her, you know? And it's taken her a very long time to get certain opportunities. And I still don't know if she gets the opportunities that she's really worthy of. But she, she had to dunk on you from the free throw line in eight minutes and doubt to get like a shot. You know, like, you gotta turn, I always say, you gotta turn water into wine. And they don't usually give you a vineyard as a result to turn in water into wine. They just give you another glass of water. And so.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  That's a bar.

• 55:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:50Speaker 00

  And so I, I, I'm grateful for knowing what it is though.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:55Speaker 00

  I know what it is now. And I just, I just do the best I can to be patient.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  One place I would go back to tomorrow is Paris. I loved how you could spend the morning walking around these quiet little side streets, having incredible savory crepe for lunch. And then suddenly you're in the middle of this huge, bright bustling city at night. And being a big food person when I travel, I wanna try whatever that city does best. Find that out of the way neighborhood spot. Maybe order something I've never had before. Paris is the ideal place for that. I could spend a month there and still feel like I barely scratched the surface. Trips like that always make me think about how much of the world I still wanna see. Of course, the only problem with having a long travel wish list is eventually somebody has to pay for it.

• 56:53Speaker 02

  Which got me thinking, if you're heading out on your own adventure or a big concert, game, or festival is bringing travelers to your town, you can list your space on Airbnb while you're away. Instead of letting your place sit empty, you could put it to work, earn some extra income and give someone a home base to explore your city. They can discover the neighborhoods, local spots and experiences that make your community special while you put that extra income toward your next adventure. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host.

• 57:29Speaker 02

  You know what gets me this time of year? The mornings feels like just last month I was getting up with the sun. Now it's still dark when my alarm goes off. The whole rhythm of my day shifts. One thing I keep consistent through it all is AG1. When your body's adjusting to a seasonal shift like this, you don't want a nutrient gap on top of it. AG1 Next Gen has 75 plus ingredients, vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics, and superfoods. And they're backed by four clinical trials that show key nutrient levels improve within three months of sticking with it. This time of year, I want that immune support in my corner.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  So every morning I have my AG1. One scoop, cold water, and I'm on my way. Even with the sun coming up later, I'm not dragging by the time I'm out the door. Go to drinkag1.com/imo and for a limited time, get a free immune support bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/imo. I feel like every year I tell myself, I'll get ahead of the holidays. I'm going to have the gifts figured out, the decorations up, everything handled nice and early.

• 58:56Speaker 02

  And then somehow the holidays still sneak up on me. So this year I'm starting early and it's so, so easy to do it with Amazon. All year I've been making little notes for myself about what I think each of my friends and family might want. And that's trickier for some than others. Like I have maybe 10 ideas written down for Kelly, but only one or two for my sister. I think she'd like a Kindle, but I might want to do a bit more research before I lock it in. Meanwhile, my kids are the easiest ones. I just get them whatever video game accessory nonsense that they're dying for right now. And Amazon makes it simple to get a head start on gifting without spending a fortune.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  Even something small can bring joy. The way I get excited to find a new ornament each year that represents something special from that year. You can find low prices across everything from fashion and fitness to toys, electronics, holiday decor, groceries, advent calendars, you name it. Get a head start on holiday gifting with Amazon's low prices. Shop now at amazon.com/holiday. My kitchen has never quite felt completely put together, like it's always felt like something is missing. And then Kelly and I found these striped linen cafe curtains on Wayfair and the effect has been perfect. Once we realized we wanted some curtains,

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  it was just a matter of typing our ideal item into Wayfair's search bar. And of course, they have what we want plus 10 other options. Their inventory truly cannot be beat. I especially like being able to look through customer photos and reviews before I decide. That's what sealed the deal for us with our new curtains, as well as all of the other amazing pieces we have from Wayfair in our house right now. Wayfair has more than 20 million verified five-star reviews, so you can actually see how something looks and works in real people's homes. Find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 1:01:15Speaker 04

  Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  What do you think the country, the world, misunderstands about the Muslim religion? Because I think Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother also seeks to give people a broader understanding. I mean, the movie is, it's a meshing, you know, it points to the commonalities of our faith. I think films like this help, but I just, you know, want to know your thoughts on helping people understand what they get wrong about the religion.

• 1:02:02Speaker 00

  Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother is essentially, you could say, like a Muslim gospel, a hadith, a saying of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, where someone had come to him and asked him, who we should hold dearest to our heart? Who should we love the most? And his response was, your mother. And then the brother says, well, then who? And he says again, your mother. He says, well, then who? Says, your mother. He goes, oh, wow. He goes, and then your father. The love and respect we are to have for women is paramount

• 1:02:46Speaker 00

  to the point where it could be the difference between you going to heaven or not going to heaven. One of the other sayings in Islam is heaven is at the feet of your mother. So you gotta be good to your mother. You have to be good to women. You have to uphold and protect women. And people don't always uphold that. Like that would be dishonest if I said that. But what the faith actually teaches, what the Holy Prophet actually teaches, peace be upon him, is the utmost respect for women.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  How is your partnership a part of your strength and your faith? How do you think about your partnership with the mother of your beautiful daughter?

• 1:03:38Speaker 00

  One of the first things that I just remember about her, like I just had a vibe and a sense and a feeling when I saw her. I just developed such a respect for how she moved through the world and what she was about as a person, human being, an artist, her tastes, her likes and dislikes, her boundaries, the things that she loves, the things that she was attracted to. That there is all like an education to me. And I think she like deepened me in a certain way, just being in proximity to somebody like that and exposed me to so much that I think, I think allowed me to grow.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  Well, we usually try to make IMO about helping, helping people. And we, this is probably a good time to go to the listener question because that also elicits some more conversations and insights. If you're ready, we'll, we'll take the listener question now.

• 1:04:41Speaker 05

  How do I balance a creative life against all the demands of everyday reality? I recently graduated college and I'm struggling with the fact that it's hard for me to find the time for creative outlets in particular, but also just my social life and all the things that make me feel like me. I'm juggling two jobs and an internship and feel like there's no way for me to find time for more fulfilling things. How do you find fulfillment, especially artistically, but really in any way, when it feels like you can hardly catch your breath from one day to the next? This is Riley, who's 21 in New Jersey.

• 1:05:16Speaker 00

  Thank you for the question, Riley. If I could speak to, specifically to finding fulfillment creatively, I would encourage you to allow your relationship, at least for this period of time, to create, to creativity, and maybe even to all things to change a bit. But let me speak specifically to creativity, that I think we all aspirationally, or all aspire, to be able to in some ways do exactly what we want, when we want to do it.

• 1:05:59Speaker 00

  And I think the realities around life are that it rarely permits that in some way. So you, so a different sort of discipline has to, a muscle has to sort of develop where you have to look at your own life and look at the time allotted to you and the time that you can create for your creativity, speaking specifically to that, to have time to breathe. So say you want an hour, but you're only permitted 10 minutes. So if you were a screenwriter, let's say,

• 1:06:42Speaker 00

  and you know you need an hour or two a day to work on your writing, you don't have an hour or two a day, but I bet you got 10 minutes. And in that 10 minutes, you make it about writing a moment in a scene, opposed to finishing an entire scene that day. You might only have time to work a moment or to get another line out. And it becomes like putting pennies in the bank, where you're just putting a little bit of time in and a little bit of time in. And the most important thing is that you're consistent about that. And over time, over a month, you'll see that, wow, I've written 10 scenes. In that 10 minutes a day that I gave myself

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  to work on this script, to work on this story, I was able to write 10 scenes. And you'll be able to read those 10 scenes. And then if you keep going, you'll have 20 scenes at a certain point. And if you keep going, eventually, within a year, you have written a full script by only having 10 minutes a day.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  And what I would say to Riley is, if you, if you're a creative, be a creative. You're young. You don't have, you don't have to be a pharmaceutical salesperson. You don't have to be any, you, you have time to do what you want to do now before you have all these responsibilities. We used to call it, my friends and I used to call it being on the treadmill. You get on that treadmill, it's hard to get off. Use this time now and spend all your time on being creative. And get your internship somewhere else so you can do this full time. And in five years,

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  you'll be working somewhere in the industry.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  So hopefully.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  Hopefully that helps Riley. Well, we, I can't tell you how much we appreciate you being here.

• 1:08:44Speaker 00

  Thank you for having me. Great getting to speak with you.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  I know, this is so, so good. Big fans and big fans of you as a human.

• 1:08:57Speaker 00

  As am I.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  You know, making me cry. People gotta go see Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother, though.

• 1:09:03Speaker 02

  Oh, they, they will.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. We agree.

• 1:09:06Speaker 00

  It was a joy to work on that film.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  And you were amazing. Congratulations.

• 1:09:10Speaker 00

  Thank you so much.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  And on all the things.

• 1:09:12Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  Thank you for being here, babe.

• 1:09:36Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Molly Graham, host of Work Life, a podcast from TED. The most important lessons about work usually aren't the ones anyone teaches you. They come from experience, from uncertainty, from figuring things out as you go. On this show, my expert guest and I explore how careers really unfold, through change, through doubt, through the decisions that shape who we become over time. Because those moments aren't the exception. They are the work. Listen to Work Life wherever you get your podcasts.