Find the Upside with Zainab Johnson

On this episode of IMO, comedian, actress, and writer Zainab Johnson joins Michelle and Craig to talk about her new stand-up special on Netflix, Toxically Optimistic, which was co-produced by Higher Ground. The three chat about Zainab’s upbringing, dating in her thirties, and what makes for standup-worthy material. In this episode: Dr. Kathleen Jordan, Chief Medical Officer, of Midi Health. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  So even when I was watching the special, I can see where my physical sort of like limitation or disability is. I can see it so clearly. And now that I'm saying it, I'm sure people will be like, right? But I don't think people, I think people think I walk like really gracefully.

• 0:17Craig Robinson?

  Well, I tell you what.

• 0:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, I think people.

• 0:20Craig Robinson?

  Yes, I think you, I would never have thought you.

• 0:23Speaker 00

  I think people think I glide across the room.

• 0:24Craig Robinson?

  There you go, there you go.

• 0:26Speaker 00

  But I'm fighting for my life, ma.

• 0:40Craig Robinson?

  How you doing, little girl?

• 0:41Michelle Obama?

  I am pretty good. But we've got a, we've got a, an amazing show. One of my favorite comedians.

• 0:50Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, and I am so glad. You put me on to her.

• 0:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 0:55Craig Robinson?

  I was feeling like the old guy in the room because everybody knew about Zainab Johnson but Craig Robinson.

• 1:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, cuz you're just not hip.

• 1:03Craig Robinson?

  I'm just not hip.

• 1:04Michelle Obama?

  You live in Mequon.

• 1:05Craig Robinson?

  I'm just not hip.

• 1:05Michelle Obama?

  And nothing goes on there. You miss all the good stuff. But just hang with me, dude. You'll know some things.

• 1:13Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 1:13Michelle Obama?

  Let's introduce her.

• 1:15Craig Robinson?

  Well, Zainab Johnson is a comedian, actress and writer, best known for starring in, as Alicia on the Amazon original series Upload. And in 2023, her debut hour-long stand-up special, The Jobs Off, premiered on Prime Video. And her additional television credits include Late Night with Seth Meyers, NBC's Last Comic Standing, and HBO's All Deaf Comedy. Her new special, Toxically Optimistic. You didn't notice how I got that out? It took me a while cuz Toxically.

• 1:51Michelle Obama?

  You barely got it, you barely got it out.

• 1:53Craig Robinson?

  Toxically Optimistic is.

• 1:53Michelle Obama?

  I was gonna let it go.

• 1:54Craig Robinson?

  Produced by none other than Higher Ground and arrives on Netflix October 27.

• 2:01Speaker 00

  Yes, indeed, it's gonna be good.

• 2:03Craig Robinson?

  So let's give a nice, tall welcome to Zainab Johnson.

• 2:18Craig Robinson?

  It's so good to see you. Thanks for being here.

• 2:22Speaker 00

  I'm good on my tippy toes. Wow, I haven't done that in a while.

• 2:27Michelle Obama?

  Is everybody in your family tall or you?

• 2:29Speaker 00

  Um, my brothers, but I'm the tallest of the girls.

• 2:32Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 2:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, they, my sisters range from maybe like an average like 5'8".

• 2:37Michelle Obama?

  Are they mad at you cuz you've got all the good height?

• 2:41Speaker 00

  My, my old, one of my older sisters, she's 5'4", and she's upset about it.

• 2:46Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, well, when there are 13 of y'all, I think you probably get every span of human.

• 2:52Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 2:53Michelle Obama?

  You play out the whole gene pool.

• 2:55Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:55Michelle Obama?

  All the big R, little r, it's all.

• 2:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:59Michelle Obama?

  All of y'all.

• 2:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is really interesting to see like how two people can create 13 different samples.

• 3:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you usually don't get to play it all out to get bitter in. And you all have.

• 3:10Craig Robinson?

  And, and a modern 13, like I, I don't think.

• 3:14Michelle Obama?

  What do you mean by a modern 13?

• 3:16Craig Robinson?

  This is like a young family of 13, like not too many people doing 13s anymore.

• 3:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I, I think people always ask like, are you, like they, they want an explanation. You know, like why were you guys?

• 3:29Michelle Obama?

  Was this on purpose?

• 3:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:30Michelle Obama?

  Is there an issue we need to know about?

• 3:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:33Craig Robinson?

  Is this a blended family?

• 3:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, they, they never ask that though, but I, I think that they should because Brady Bunch, right? But they never ask that, they, they always go to Mormon, which is.

• 3:43Michelle Obama?

  These days, yeah.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  It makes sense, but I, I don't know, I'm not seeing no black Mormon families on TV. So that's the part that I'm like.

• 3:51Michelle Obama?

  That's the thing, well, I have, I, I feel like this moment is, it, it illustrates the power of manifestation. Because I have manifested my relationship with you. I have been stalking you for years, literally, literally for years. And it started when one of my team, they were like, cuz they know I love comedy, I love funny stuff. I'm not on Instagram, so anytime anything is good, they're like, you gotta check this out. And saw some of your stand-up and I was like, this woman is amazing.

• 4:31Michelle Obama?

  I called the Higher Ground team then and I was like, this is the kind, these are the kind of people we wanna work with, see. Y'all gotta find her. And then I stalked you for years, years. Anytime you were anywhere, and then when we were in Atlanta. And I heard you mention that you were somewhere in the vicinity when I was doing that project vote rally.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  I was in actually, I was actually in Michigan. You know what's so wonderful? It's wonderful when somebody's stalking you and you're also stalking them.

• 5:03Michelle Obama?

  That's what I thought, I was like, oh my God.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  I, I, I was, I think I was in Michigan.

• 5:11Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 5:12Speaker 00

  And I, I made a flippant video, you know, I was like, Michelle, I hear you're gonna be in Michigan. Come to the show, we'll set you up. I mean, I was like, I'll get an Uber Black, I'll make sure it's bulletproof. Like I was trying to really, you know.

• 5:27Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 5:27Speaker 00

  You know, do what you need, you know? And they were like, she's not coming to your show. But she loves you.

• 5:35Michelle Obama?

  But I would've.

• 5:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, oh.

• 5:36Michelle Obama?

  I would've, I would've, that's why when I was in Atlanta, you were near, I was like, call her.

• 5:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:43Michelle Obama?

  See, and you came.

• 5:44Speaker 00

  I came, yeah.

• 5:45Michelle Obama?

  You came.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  That was such a wonderful event.

• 5:47Michelle Obama?

  It was.

• 5:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:48Michelle Obama?

  It was.

• 5:49Craig Robinson?

  So that's where you met the first time?

• 5:51Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 5:52Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 5:52Michelle Obama?

  In the green room. And it was quick cuz everybody was back there.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:56Michelle Obama?

  So I just, I, I couldn't fully describe to you how long I had been stalking you. I mean, and how, how much I wanted to just, you know, get to know you and let you know how funny I think you are. And the fact that we're here today, not only talking on IMO, but we are

• 6:18Michelle Obama?

  helping to produce your next comedy special. Totally optimistic, Toxically Optimistic.

• 6:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, Toxically Optimistic.

• 6:26Michelle Obama?

  Toxically, not totally, Toxically.

• 6:28Speaker 00

  I mean, totally is in Toxically, I'm so totally optimistic that it's toxic. And here it is now. Here it is.

• 6:35Craig Robinson?

  So hearing that, did that, at the time,

• 6:41Craig Robinson?

  meeting Mish, did that make you nervous? Or you don't get nervous like that anymore?

• 6:46Speaker 00

  Nervous right now.

• 6:48Craig Robinson?

  Are you?

• 6:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:50Craig Robinson?

  You're not.

• 6:50Speaker 00

  No, I'm, I'm not, I'm not so nervous that I can't contain myself, but.

• 6:55Craig Robinson?

  But nervous, excited?

• 6:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, nervous, excited, for sure. I definitely get nervous before I go on stage, but it's not often that anyone gets to meet the former first lady. So that's, I mean, I don't, I know, I know we're here for me today, but I can take a second.

• 7:11Craig Robinson?

  We are, we are.

• 7:12Speaker 00

  Like, yeah, no, I was, I was extremely nervous, you know?

• 7:17Michelle Obama?

  You are incredibly talented. Talk a bit about the new special that we are co-producing on Netflix.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  Yes, uh, yes, and I'm so, you don't understand how much of a flex that is.

• 7:30Michelle Obama?

  It's, you know, I'm learning.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  Oh, please, please, no, I don't know any other comedian that Mrs. Michelle Obama is like, I was stalking. I, I actually have more goals, but I think I can stop here. I'm like, I think I can stop here.

• 7:45Michelle Obama?

  Don't stop.

• 7:46Speaker 00

  I won't, I won't, I won't, I won't. But, um, so Toxically Optimistic is my second one-hour special. And my comedy is really personal, you know, I'm not like, I guess I'm a little bit observational, but I have a very specific POV. I know how I feel about everything that I'm experiencing. And where my first special was like me like laying in the ground, you know, like who I am. Like I'm at the intersectionality of these identities and what that's like for me, you know? And I wanted people to understand anything that I put out after that, this is who it came from, you know? And this, I just, I feel like we're in a really chaotic time.

• 8:28Speaker 00

  I feel like I am constantly making a choice to not live in fear.

• 8:34Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  For like so many different reasons. And I was like, I'm going to be very intentional about being joyful and whimsical and silly. But I'm still gonna talk about things that are uncomfortable, you know, and serious and, and things that we're all kind of like living through. And so those, the bits are very personal to me, but they, you know, they start out like, this is a taboo subject, some of them.

• 9:04Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  But then I always kind of spin it like this is, there's an upside or there's a fun way into this, you know?

• 9:12Michelle Obama?

  The way you perform, it's, it's not like you're hoping she don't mess up.

• 9:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:18Michelle Obama?

  I mean, you, you have your audience where you want it to be and we're just following you.

• 9:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:25Michelle Obama?

  Where'd that come from?

• 9:27Speaker 00

  I have no idea. I, I, I have no idea, but I know when I, when I started, I know when I first did stand-up, it felt very different than anything I had ever done. It, it felt the most natural to me. And I say this like very humbly, but I do think I could be pretty good at a lot of things.

• 9:48Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 9:48Speaker 00

  Like.

• 9:49Michelle Obama?

  Just say it.

• 9:49Speaker 00

  You know? But a lot of things that I've been good at in my life didn't feel almost like innate. And when I did stand-up, it felt like that. But then once I decided to do it, I would like tell my friends stories and they would be like, you gotta say that on stage. And I would get on stage and the audience would be like, mm. I don't get it. What's happening?

• 10:12Craig Robinson?

  Well, when did that happen? Because you were like, oh, stand up's for me. I'm good at it. When did that happen?

• 10:19Michelle Obama?

  What even made you try stand up?

• 10:21Speaker 00

  So I moved to LA. So I thought I would be a math teacher.

• 10:24Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 10:25Speaker 00

  My entire life, I was like, I'm gonna be a high school math teacher. I'm gonna be a cool high school math teacher. You know, I saw Dangerous Minds. I'm like, I'm about to be the Black Michelle Pfeiffer. I'm about to change kids' lives. That's what I thought, you know? Like, I grew up in New York City, in Harlem. I remember they used to shoot, like, Law and Order in my neighborhood. My mom would be like, go downstairs. And I'd be like, and do what? And she would be like, smile, they'll choose you, you know? And I'm like, this lady's crazy. But, so I thought I would be like a math teacher just because I I remember watching my mom as I was a child. I remember her constantly re-enrolling in school. And we would be with her. Like, you know, she'd have like, I remember when I went to a class with her

• 11:09Speaker 00

  at Queens College, she had me, my younger brother, the twins, and she was pregnant.

• 11:14Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 11:15Speaker 00

  And still trying to, and in my mind, I was like, I just need to get there. Like, I just need to get to the work part of, I just need to complete, complete, complete. And so then after I, you know, completed school, essentially, a friend of mine, who was a little bit more of a dreamer than I, I guess, had access to at first, she was like, I'm moving to LA. And I was like, for what? And she was like, to be famous.

• 11:45Michelle Obama?

  Like, you can do that?

• 11:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, like, we would go all the time, but like, to move just seemed different.

• 11:51Craig Robinson?

  So you would go to LA all the time?

• 11:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, for like, spring break.

• 11:55Craig Robinson?

  Okay, okay. And, but you weren't going out to like, try out?

• 11:58Speaker 00

  No.

• 11:59Craig Robinson?

  You hadn't become a comedian yet?

• 12:02Speaker 00

  No, no, no.

• 12:03Michelle Obama?

  You were just visiting LA?

• 12:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, for brunch, in the beach.

• 12:06Craig Robinson?

  Okay, okay.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  You know, just because you're like, 20 and 21, and you don't know what else, you know?

• 12:13Craig Robinson?

  And at this point, you're not thinking about being a comedian? Okay, okay.

• 12:17Speaker 00

  No, no, no, it doesn't happen until like, a couple of years later. I moved to LA, and I actually, you know, was, didn't have any money for a little while.

• 12:27Michelle Obama?

  Go figure.

• 12:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:28Michelle Obama?

  You were broke.

• 12:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was broke, I was broke.

• 12:30Michelle Obama?

  Surprise, surprise.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I started working for a friend of mine, because I would be at comedy clubs, like, almost every night. And with no, I never had the thought, not that I'm aware of, like, I'm gonna do this.

• 12:41Craig Robinson?

  So you were a consumer of comedy at that time?

• 12:44Speaker 00

  Huge consumer, still am. I'm a huge fan of comedy. And I never quite saw it as like, a job. I thought like, there's celebrities, right? Like Eddie Murphy, right? But then I thought that the people that I was seeing live and in person, like, they must go to a job early in the day.

• 13:01Michelle Obama?

  Right, this couldn't possibly be it.

• 13:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, and one in a million, you know, you get like, you get like, a big comedian, right?

• 13:08Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 13:09Speaker 00

  But I just, that's all that it was for me in my mind. And so a friend, a guy that I know, a friend of mine, who produced a lot of comedy shows, he needed an assistant, and I needed money. And I started working for him, and he was like, I can get you health insurance. Like, all the things that kind of sets in, like, after you're in LA for like, a year, you're like, you know?

• 13:30Michelle Obama?

  I need some help.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, I should go to the dentist. Like, I think I'm due for a clinic, right?

• 13:36Craig Robinson?

  I am an adult.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:37Craig Robinson?

  After the fact.

• 13:39Speaker 00

  Exactly, you know? And then I started working for him, and that was cool, but it felt like insufficient to me. And like, one, you know, a lot of jobs, I don't know, I felt like he was giving me perks that I couldn't even access, because I was always at the job, you know? But then I felt like, well, if I'm just gonna sit in the office, I could just go back to New York and work in a classroom. And so I quit the job. Yeah, like, I just, it just didn't feel right. Like, I was, I'm sure I was a good assistant.

• 14:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 14:10Speaker 00

  But it just didn't feel like that was what I was supposed to be doing. And I had quit, I went in and gave him my two weeks, and then I just Googled like, an open mic.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  This episode of IMO is brought to you by our sponsor, Midi Health. I'm still surprised at the number of women I run into who are talking to me about their symptoms, but they don't even know that hormone replacement therapy, or any therapy, is an option.

• 14:44Speaker 03

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• 14:58Craig Robinson?

  Midi sounds like it's really made, helped women make it easier for women to get access to care.

• 15:07Speaker 03

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• 15:51Speaker 03

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• 15:58Craig Robinson?

  I feel like every year, I tell myself, I'll get ahead of the holidays. I'm gonna have the gifts figured out, the decorations up, everything handled nice and early. And then somehow, the holidays still sneak up on me. So this year, I'm starting early, and it's so, so easy to do it with Amazon. All year, I've been making little notes for myself about what I think each of my friends and family might want. And that's trickier for some than others. Like, I have maybe 10 ideas written down for Kelly, but only one or two for my sister. I think she'd like a Kindle, but I might want to do a bit more research before I lock it in. Meanwhile, my kids are the easiest ones.

• 16:40Craig Robinson?

  I just get them whatever video game accessory nonsense that they're dying for right now. And Amazon makes it simple to get a head start on gifting without spending a fortune. Even something small can bring joy. The way I get excited to find a new ornament each year that represents something special from that year. You can find low prices across everything from fashion and fitness to toys, electronics, holiday decor, groceries, advent calendars, you name it. Get a head start on holiday gifting with Amazon's low prices. Shop now at amazon.com/holiday.

• 17:25Speaker 00

  And I went to an open mic by my house.

• 17:27Craig Robinson?

  Now, so that, who just does that?

• 17:30Michelle Obama?

  But you said your mom took you to a comedy club when you were 10. And you said you loved Eddie Murphy? I'm sorry.

• 17:40Craig Robinson?

  You said. I'm gonna head back to New York, but before I do that, I'm gonna go to an open mic.

• 17:44Speaker 00

  Okay, so I didn't go back to New York. Well, yeah, I thought that I could be back. And if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna decide to step into a career that puts me at a place nine to five, then I'm gonna go back and do what I think would be more impactful, right? But, so that day, I went, that evening, I went home, and I just Googled, like, open mic. I was familiar enough, like, I knew how comedy worked, because I was around it so much. And I Googled open mics near my apartment, fully expecting it to be awful. I've been at open mics. Nobody wants to, every, it's awful. You're interrupting people's food, you know? Comedians don't want to see you, they want their time.

• 18:26Speaker 00

  And so I went, and you had to pay $5 to buy a coffee. And you get five minutes, and it was like, first come, first served. And I got on stage, I wrote jokes that I

• 18:35Craig Robinson?

  That day, you wrote the jokes?

• 18:37Speaker 00

  It all happened in a matter of a moment.

• 18:42Speaker 00

  It all happened in a, like, in a matter of a moment. I Googled, I found the place, it said five minutes, and I was like, okay, I know what time I need to be there, I know I have to buy coffee, now what am I gonna say? And I started with what I knew, which was my family. And I started talking about, I think I wrote down, I think the very first thing I ever wrote down was like, hmm, I'm Muslim, Muslims don't like pork, why? That's what I wrote down.

• 19:14Michelle Obama?

  Explore.

• 19:17Speaker 00

  And then I got up there, and I delivered what I thought was material.

• 19:22Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 19:23Speaker 00

  I said, I'm one of 13, and everybody said, oh.

• 19:29Speaker 00

  And I said, oh, I don't know why I did. Maybe because I'm so used to, like you said, blended family. I said, oh, but from the same mother and father. That's what I said, and everybody.

• 19:39Craig Robinson?

  And everybody was shocked.

• 19:40Speaker 00

  Like shocked, but also that was like the humor for them.

• 19:44Craig Robinson?

  Oh.

• 19:45Speaker 00

  And I was like, oh, okay. Like in my mind, I was like, oh, that's what's funny? All right.

• 19:50Michelle Obama?

  I got a lot of that.

• 19:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, and then I just, I kept going and they laughed. This is not a long time, this was like three and a half minutes.

• 19:58Craig Robinson?

  But still, it's like three and a half. I mean, it's not like you, all right, some people probably plan for that five minutes for years.

• 20:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:07Craig Robinson?

  You just decide, hey, I'm gonna go to open mic night. Let me write a few jokes and then bam.

• 20:13Speaker 00

  But I wasn't confident, like I didn't think that it would go well. I, no, truly, it went well. It went well.

• 20:20Craig Robinson?

  This is funnier than you actually want to think. Oh, I wasn't that good.

• 20:24Speaker 00

  I just, I just thought, like you said, if I'm gonna just go home, let me, let me.

• 20:29Craig Robinson?

  It was on a lottery ticket.

• 20:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, let me, let me, and then I got up there and it, it went better than expected. But it felt, forget how it went. It, it felt like something I had never felt.

• 20:42Craig Robinson?

  Okay, and what was that feeling? Where did you feel? What did you feel in your stomach, in your head?

• 20:49Speaker 00

  I think I felt it in my gut and I think I felt it in my heart. It sparked something. I was excited in a way that I had never been excited. And I wasn't excited like I think I'm funny. I was excited to try, you know what it felt like? You, you ever get on a roller coaster and you're like scared of the roller coaster? But as soon as you get off the roller coaster, you're like, I gotta do it again.

• 21:13Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 21:13Speaker 00

  That's what it felt like.

• 21:14Craig Robinson?

  Okay, now, do any of your siblings think you're funny? Or did they think you were funny when you were younger? Because I could, I could see a sibling saying, oh, you ain't funny. I'm funnier than you are.

• 21:27Speaker 00

  So one of my first TV appearances, my mom and maybe like six of my siblings drove down to Atlanta. We taped in Atlanta and, and my younger brother, after the taping, he said, I was so scared. I'd never been more scared in my life before you came out. And I was like, well, why were you scared? You weren't the one going out there. And he was like, I don't remember you being funny.

• 21:52Craig Robinson?

  Now, that sounds like a brother right there.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just bust out laughing. He was like, yeah, I don't remember you being funny. He said, but then the moment you said your first joke, everybody laughed. He was like, I was able to just relax. He was like, and then I was, and then I listened to you. You are really funny.

• 22:11Craig Robinson?

  Oh, that's nice.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  But I think they just see me, I'm like, I'm the fifth of thirteen.

• 22:15Michelle Obama?

  You're smack dab in the middle almost, right?

• 22:18Speaker 00

  Like, I'm the oldest of the middle.

• 22:19Craig Robinson?

  She wasn't a math teacher.

• 22:21Speaker 00

  That's okay.

• 22:23Michelle Obama?

  I said almost in the middle.

• 22:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 22:27Craig Robinson?

  Not have to agree with her.

• 22:29Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, something like that.

• 22:30Speaker 00

  I cannot be in the middle of it.

• 22:31Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I know. So you're the fifth?

• 22:34Speaker 00

  I'm the fifth.

• 22:34Craig Robinson?

  Out of thirteen.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I guess the.

• 22:36Craig Robinson?

  She would have to be seven and a half.

• 22:39Michelle Obama?

  Okay, anyway.

• 22:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, six and a half, seven.

• 22:41Michelle Obama?

  See, this is what, you know? It's like, he's gonna be fired after this.

• 22:46Speaker 00

  But, but there's a lot of, there's so many younger than me. I'm the older sister.

• 22:50Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:51Speaker 00

  And so, yeah, I'm not being funny with you because I'm probably, I'm assisting the parents.

• 22:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, you gotta have your stuff together.

• 23:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:01Michelle Obama?

  You know better.

• 23:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know? But now they come to my shows and everybody thinks that I'm funny.

• 23:07Michelle Obama?

  Were you always that, that person that when you were a kid, were you, I mean, you were, you were rightfully confident and poised. And like you said, there's an air where you feel like I'm good at a lot of things. And there're just not a lot of, you know, people who feel that way about themselves. Were, were you always that way? Were, and were you unique in your family?

• 23:35Speaker 00

  I think I was always encouraged to like speak up, even like my, I remember my first job when I was sixteen. I, I worked in retail and I remember I had so many opinions. I was just like, and they didn't, I was, I would just go home to my father and I would just, you know, to just tell him like, yeah, and can you believe that this is how they're, they're telling me to do it like this, but it should be done like this? And he was like, you should really start a consulting firm. And I was like, what? At sixteen, I don't even know if I knew what a consulting firm was, but he was like, that's what you should do. You seem to have opinions about things, you know? So I don't know, I don't, I don't always feel confident, but people tell me I'm very confident.

• 24:16Speaker 00

  But I don't always feel that way, but I think I, I keep going regardless, you know?

• 24:23Michelle Obama?

  Tell me about your, your parents. I mean, just the, all the little things, you know, eggs you're dropping.

• 24:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:30Michelle Obama?

  They sound pretty amazing, you know? I mean, because you felt, it sounds like they saw all of you. And to have thirteen kids and to be able to, you know, shoot, just the fact that you came home at sixteen, you were talking to your dad about your job and he had, and he was listening.

• 24:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, you know, he, he said, whenever we were old enough to get jobs, he said that we had to contribute to the house. So I would have to give a third of my teenage paycheck to the house. So I felt like you gonna hear my complaints. I gotta give up some of this money.

• 25:08Michelle Obama?

  We gonna talk about it.

• 25:09Speaker 00

  We gonna talk about it.

• 25:12Speaker 00

  I, I've made this distinction as an adult. I like my parents, I love them, but I like them. And I don't think I knew the difference when I was younger. I remember being at a friend's birthday party and I remember hearing her grandmother say, I love you, but I don't like you. And I was like, no, you could do that? Like, I didn't even know that like family could differentiate, you know? And, and so now as an adult, I'm very clear that I, like I really, my, my father's passed away, but I really liked him, you know, as a person. And he wasn't perfect.

• 25:48Speaker 00

  There's a lot of conversations that I wish I had had with him, you know? And my mother is not perfect at all and I really love them in, in how they raised me, raised us. Although, you know, from thirteen to, or from one to thirteen, it's very different. I realize I've had like gradually different experiences, yeah, than like.

• 26:11Craig Robinson?

  Cause your parents evolved too, yes.

• 26:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, me and my older siblings were like, yeah, we gonna have a birthday party. We was lucky, we got a cake. And my younger brother was like, I had amazing birthday parties. And I was like, yeah, you went to Disneyland too, cause you know, we were older and we took you, you know? But, but I really liked them. Like I find, when I think about like memories of my father, he was very strict and I understand why.

• 26:35Michelle Obama?

  And what did strict, how did that, how did that play out? What did it mean? Did he yell? Did he make you, did he just have rules or?

• 26:43Speaker 00

  All of the above. This is a story, a defining moment of my childhood with my father and I.

• 26:51Speaker 00

  He used to always say, make sure you come home before the streetlights turn on, right? He would always say, we, he, my parents never really let me go to sleepovers and things. I would go to the birthday party, but, but maybe at eight, nine o'clock, they would come and pick me up, right? And I didn't, I didn't know if it was like they're just strict. I didn't know if it had to do with Islam. Like I, I really, at the time, they didn't explain it to me, but I just knew that y'all know Zainab ain't staying, you know? Like everybody just knew that, right? And there were these two girls that I used to hang out with and I didn't go to school with them, but we lived in the same neighborhood. And they were also Muslim girls. And so my parents were kind of comfortable with me going over to their house.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  They knew their mom, you know, their mom. And I remember I got a bit comfortable, cause my parents were so comfortable with them. I got really comfortable and so they live right across the street. And so I knew like, yeah, the streetlights are on now and I'm.

• 27:49Michelle Obama?

  They couldn't possibly.

• 27:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, they know where I'm at. They, they love you, they trust you, they go to the mass, they know, you know? And, and I came home later than I was supposed to and my father said, I'm gonna put you on restriction until the end of the school year. And this was like October.

• 28:12Speaker 00

  And so I was like, he's gonna put me on restriction until like the end of this calendar year, right? And I was like, okay, what's the restriction? And he was like, unless it's some extracurricular, like unless it has to do with school, you have to come straight home after school. And you are not gonna do anything, like you can't go on like class trips, you can't, like all of these things, like anything that was like fun. He was like, that's, you are restricted. And I was like, cool, this is like a month, he's gonna, gonna let me out early, right? No, no. It wasn't until, at the time, I think New York City schools got out at like the end of June. It was until the end of June. I, I'll never forget, one of my friend's parents actually came to my show in North Carolina recently.

• 28:57Speaker 00

  She's like, do you remember me? I said, I absolutely do, cause it was middle school and my, I couldn't go on the, end of the school year trip, which was to like an amusement park. And all of my friend's parents called my parents and said, if it's money, we'll pay for Zainab.

• 29:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  If it's money, we'll cover the trip for her. My father was like, it's not money, it's restriction. And, and I didn't go on a trip because he, he meant it, you know? And then at that point, it's like now I'm used to restriction. Now I'm in the house forever, you know?

• 29:35Craig Robinson?

  And, and. They could have opened the door and you wouldn't have gone out, like one of those dogs really trained to stay in the house. You're like, oh yeah, it's nice out there, we'll see you later.

• 29:43Speaker 00

  The very last day of school, he was like, okay, restriction is up, you know? And I was like, I mean, well, my friends have moved on without me.

• 29:55Speaker 00

  But, but that hap, that, that really kind of, I knew who he was and, and he's somebody who, well, that's not like a fun story for me in the moment. In retrospect, it is, but I'm also very hard on people that don't keep their word.

• 30:11Michelle Obama?

  Yes, yeah.

• 30:13Speaker 00

  I'm super intolerable to that and that might be.

• 30:16Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:17Speaker 00

  Because like I grew up with someone who.

• 30:21Michelle Obama?

  It's like, he meant what he said, he said what he meant.

• 30:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:25Michelle Obama?

  And that meant something.

• 30:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, my mom's way more flexible, you know? You catch her on the right day or.

• 30:31Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 30:32Speaker 00

  You know, she'll be like, okay, you can, uh huh, my guy, you know?

• 30:36Craig Robinson?

  I have a feeling if both of them were strict like that, you wouldn't be funny.

• 30:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe not. Or maybe I would be like defiantly, you know?

• 30:44Craig Robinson?

  Some other industry, like investment banking or something.

• 30:51Michelle Obama?

  Stealing it.

• 30:55Craig Robinson?

  Go right ahead. Go right ahead. No, I'm not. I won't use that in my, in my open mic.

• 31:04Craig Robinson?

  All right. So then let's step off the stage for a bit here. Cause I want to know about your basketball career.

• 31:10Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 31:11Michelle Obama?

  Was it a career?

• 31:13Speaker 00

  Not really.

• 31:17Craig Robinson?

  Well, so tell me about it then, cause I, I, I had read that you were a hooper for a little bit.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was. I was.

• 31:23Craig Robinson?

  And, and might've gone to college playing hoops if you hadn't had your accident, right?

• 31:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, truly, that is true. That is true.

• 31:29Craig Robinson?

  So if you, if you're playing like that, you, you were on your way to having some kind of.

• 31:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. I can't remember. I think it was the gym teacher in my middle school. He was also the basketball coach.

• 31:41Craig Robinson?

  There you go. Okay.

• 31:42Speaker 00

  And, and he was like, you should try, like come to the, maybe he said, come to the practice or the tryouts. And I did, not thinking anything of it. And then I just kept doing it. I don't, nobody was like, you're so good. You should stay. I don't remember that. You know, but like I was, I was like a tall girl who could hold her hands up.

• 32:02Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 00

  You know?

• 32:04Craig Robinson?

  But what, you, it wasn't like you were playing AAU basketball or?

• 32:08Speaker 00

  So I got good. I got good.

• 32:10Michelle Obama?

  See, I wasn't good, but I got good.

• 32:12Speaker 00

  But I got good. So I went to Larnburg and, and, cause it's like I had the grades, but they, they just, it was like, oh, they're, we're gonna bring these girls from the city down here and it's gonna be, we're gonna be, have like a, uh, like diligent basketball program, which will like help with recruiting.

• 32:30Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 32:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and I remember that when I was supposed to go home, that was when I got hit by a truck.

• 32:45Craig Robinson?

  We're heading to Tokyo this winter and I'm so excited. I was there once before, but only for about 24 hours. So I feel like I barely scratched the surface. This time I really want to experience Tokyo beyond just checking the big sights off the list. I've heard the best way to take in the city is to slow down, wander the neighborhoods, find the local ramen spots and markets, and just see where the day takes you. I'd love to see and feel the people in places like the locals do. That's been true for me wherever I've traveled. I want to see the big sights, of course, but what I really remember most is the stuff that happened in between. The little hidden restaurants you stumble into, the people watching.

• 33:29Craig Robinson?

  It's all part of what makes a city unique. And if you're lucky enough to be doing some traveling yourself, remember that your home doesn't necessarily have to sit empty while you're gone. You can list your space on Airbnb while you're away. It's a pretty cool way to make a little extra money that you can put toward your next trip, while also giving somebody else a place to stay and a chance to really see your city. They can get out, walk around the neighborhood, find the spots you love and experience the place the way you do. Because honestly, that's when you really get to know a city, when you experience it like a local. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host.

• 34:14Craig Robinson?

  This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, who is committed to helping people move forward and live fully. I remember when I was a first time home buyer and I knew one thing, and it was that I knew nothing. Mortgages, closing costs, inspections, home insurance, there's a lot to look into. If you're working towards buying your first home, then I really recommend doing all that research. And I'm happy to say there are some programs like Progressive's Open the House that make things considerably easier. Through this initiative, Progressive is helping first time home buyers overcome some of the biggest barriers to homeownership through helpful tools,

• 34:57Craig Robinson?

  educational resources, connections to trusted organizations and funding opportunities. For a lot of people, buying that first home is about more than owning property. It's about building stability and creating a place that's yours. And I know that's how it was for me. Learn more about Progressive's commitment to first time home buyers at progressive.com/openedthehouse, where you can learn more about common housing challenges and access helpful tools and resources to empower you in your housing journey. You know what's funny? Almost every entrepreneur I admire says some version of the same thing. They didn't feel ready when they started. They just started.

• 35:40Craig Robinson?

  That's the thing about waiting for the right time to build something of your own. It doesn't come. Life stays busy. The timing never lines up perfectly. And the only real difference between the people who do it and the people who talk about it is that one of them just took the first step. And yeah, the first step can be scary, but you don't have to figure it out alone. Shopify is an entire platform built and dedicated to helping you start and run your own business. And you own all of it. Your storefront, your customers, your brand. You're also not managing it all by hand. Shopify has Sidekick, an AI co-founder built right in.

• 36:22Craig Robinson?

  It helps analyze your sales, update products, run promotions and generate reports. All the behind the scenes stuff that used to eat up your whole day. That means less time managing the logistics and more time actually creating. It's time to stop thinking about starting your business and start doing. And you can do that by heading to Shopify.com/IMO.

• 36:52Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. You just say that and then I got hit by a truck. And that's in your standup too.

• 37:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, I like to just drop a bomb on the audience and just let them deal with it. They're like, wait, this is supposed to be funny.

• 37:09Michelle Obama?

  How you introduce it in your standup. Can we, tell us the story through your, your standup perspective? Because it's funny, but I do want to know more about that accident.

• 37:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:20Michelle Obama?

  And what that period was like for you.

• 37:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I was, um, on stage. I say like, um, you know, I'm, I have a really positive outlook, which I do. And part of it is because something, I say, I say, I say, I know where it comes from. I got hit by a truck when I was 17 years old. People are like, wait, what? And, and yeah, that's how I introduced it on stage and I tried to make it, I, I tried to make it funny before they can drop into like empathy. But I know I was in a Jetta. You guys sponsored by Jetta?

• 37:58Michelle Obama?

  No.

• 38:01Craig Robinson?

  No, we're not.

• 38:01Speaker 00

  I don't, I, I divulge my, I like, because it was that car now forever to me, that car is the enemy.

• 38:11Speaker 00

  And so that car shut down and my friend, the driver, she was like, um, the gas station is, we can see it. We were just there. She was like, you guys want to get out and push? And I'm like, no. And she's like, yeah, I'm gonna put it in neutral. We'll just push it back to the gas station. And me and my friend, I remember us just cra- like cracking jokes. And I had on brand new sneakers at the time. And I remember pushing the back of this car and I'm like, I better not mess up my sneaker. Like I remember that being one of my last thoughts. And then I woke up in an ambulance.

• 38:46Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 38:47Speaker 00

  I woke up in an ambulance and, um, the EMT was, had like his fingers up, like tell me how many fingers am I holding up? I used to say this on stage too. He's like, tell me who the president is. I'm like, yo, I'm 17. I do not know who the president is.

• 39:02Speaker 00

  A different time. Like I feel like 17 year olds know who the president is today. Maybe not. Okay. And for me at 17, I was like, bro, wrong question, you know? And then I, I woke up again in a hospital. And, and then I was made aware of what happened. And then I spent like my, the rest of my senior year of high school in a hospital.

• 39:26Speaker 00

  And I, the first couple of days were really hard, like really, really hard, really painful, really. And I didn't even understand the severity of it, but still I knew that I had forever been changed.

• 39:41Craig Robinson?

  So you were already starting to process it emotionally or no?

• 39:44Speaker 00

  I think it sounds like that because now I'm speaking about it, like with all the knowledge and sort of experience that I have now. But I think in a moment, it was just like, y'all said my legs is broke. I'm a hooper.

• 39:59Speaker 00

  My legs are broke. Like my legs not just broken, but they're like, you don't know if I'm ever gonna walk again?

• 40:05Speaker 00

  Not, I wasn't like, am I gonna walk? It's like, so I can't play basket- you know how you skip over like just what you need and like.

• 40:12Speaker 00

  Forget walking.

• 40:12Michelle Obama?

  And where are my gym shoes?

• 40:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I'm not gonna be able to play basketball. And so I just knew like that was, that had become such a huge part of my life. For me, that was gonna pay for college. For me, that was, that was going to be like a defining part of like who I was, you know? And so then to find out almost instantly that like, mm, you know? Yeah, that, and not, they weren't, they wouldn't even entertain that conversation. It was like you, you're lucky you have legs.

• 40:47Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 40:47Speaker 00

  Like you're lucky.

• 40:49Michelle Obama?

  You guys got smashed in between the car?

• 40:51Speaker 00

  So I was told that it was a drunk driver, driving, cause I think when I say truck, people don't know what truck to envision, right?

• 41:00Craig Robinson?

  I went straight to 18 wheeler.

• 41:04Speaker 00

  I don't know why that, I don't know why I felt that.

• 41:05Craig Robinson?

  You can use that too. You can use that in your show.

• 41:09Speaker 00

  Because you know, when you said that, in my mind, I was like, ooh, I would have been dead.

• 41:14Craig Robinson?

  I think you would have been dead too, but I was just saying, in my mind, when you said truck, I was like, hmm.

• 41:19Speaker 00

  If you survive 18 wheeler, you're supposed to be here.

• 41:22Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  You know?

• 41:22Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 41:23Speaker 00

  Um, so it was more so like, um, a delivery truck. So think of like, um, like a standard postal truck, not like a, not like a, um, small post office, but like a UPS truck.

• 41:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 41:36Speaker 00

  Uh, because that's actually what it was.

• 41:38Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 41:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was a shipping, yeah, so that sort of truck. And I didn't even, I, I thought that my, I thought that my friend was experiencing exactly what I was experiencing. But maybe about two or three weeks into our hospital stay, I had found out that her leg was amputated. So when they were telling me, like, you're lucky you have legs, you're lucky, I didn't really understand that. And then when I saw her, I was like, oh. And it, and it, and it felt, I really, I had really sort of lost hope, I guess. The, the, the first few weeks, for myself. I didn't think that I was gonna die.

• 42:24Michelle Obama?

  Right.

• 42:24Speaker 00

  But I just thought life was gonna not be fun anymore. I thought that like, I was gonna be like a burden on people, like I just didn't, you know? And then I remember when I saw her and realized that her leg was amputated, I felt so silly. I felt so silly about never once having a thought of like gratitude.

• 42:46Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 42:47Speaker 00

  You know? And, and then I was like forever changed again, because now everything is like, I could find the upside. That's what toxically I feel.

• 42:57Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  Like, I can, I can, I can find an upside. I'm not saying that, I'm not glossing over things.

• 43:03Craig Robinson?

  Sure.

• 43:04Speaker 00

  But there's so many, I'm so grateful, I'm, I'm much more grateful for the things than I am.

• 43:11Michelle Obama?

  Did it take you time to come to that, or did you feel that as soon as you found out about your friend?

• 43:17Speaker 00

  I think I felt so silly.

• 43:21Michelle Obama?

  Right in that moment?

• 43:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, and nobody knew, but like I was embarrassed by myself. You know, like in my head, in my own head and like heart, I was like embarrassed, like.

• 43:33Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, how did you feel this way?

• 43:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, like you, you, I don't, I don't want to trivialize my experience or, or diminish it. I, I was going through something very real and, but

• 43:48Speaker 00

  I do still have both my legs. Still do, you know, like, uh, and, and so I don't think, I think that I had that, like, turning point in, in the way that I thought, I think that was instant.

• 44:02Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 44:02Speaker 00

  But I think putting it to practice, like living in it, I think that I just noticed more and more, like, I tend to have a positive, even, or, or, or not I tend to have a positive outlook, but I'm looking for, to the point where one of my girlfriends was like, I'm gonna stop telling you about the guys that I'm dating, because every time I tell you he's doing something wrong, you're like, well, maybe.

• 44:29Speaker 00

  Well, think about, may, and I, I'm not that I'm trying to ever send my friend into.

• 44:33Michelle Obama?

  But he's got more time for you.

• 44:36Speaker 00

  I'm like, maybe you're in his life to like reveal his, you know, like, and my friend was like, it's you.

• 44:43Craig Robinson?

  That might be toxically optimistic.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  It's you.

• 44:47Craig Robinson?

  I do say so as a guy.

• 44:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I need you to just say he's, you know, dick. I need you to call him an asshole with me.

• 44:53Michelle Obama?

  And let's move on together.

• 44:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly, so.

• 44:57Michelle Obama?

  What was your rehab process like, and what'd you learn about yourself through it?

• 45:02Speaker 00

  Once I started walk, I, I walk weird, but people don't know, but I know I walk weird.

• 45:07Michelle Obama?

  Oh, I'm gonna watch you now.

• 45:09Craig Robinson?

  Weird, as just generally weird or weird for you?

• 45:14Speaker 00

  So even when I was watching the special, I can see where my physical, sort of like limitation or disability is, I can see it so clearly. And now that I'm saying it, I'm sure people will be like, right? But I don't think people, I think people think I walk like really gracefully.

• 45:32Craig Robinson?

  Well, I tell you what.

• 45:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I think people.

• 45:34Craig Robinson?

  Yes, I think, I would never have thought you.

• 45:37Speaker 00

  I think people think I glide across the room.

• 45:39Craig Robinson?

  There you go, there you go.

• 45:41Speaker 00

  But I'm fighting for my life, no.

• 45:43Craig Robinson?

  I'm dragging this flag.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  I'm, truly, truly, like I, like my, my left foot, I don't know, I don't think people, I say it so much online, but I don't think people truly hear me, like I don't have Dorsey flexure in my left ankle. I have limited in my right, I don't have any of it in my left ankle. It takes a, it took so much of me, when I first used to walk on my left, I used to, I used to almost flap, really.

• 46:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 46:10Speaker 00

  You know? Um, and then I, I guess I, I guess I've built up muscle enough in my leg and I'm sure other parts of my body.

• 46:18Michelle Obama?

  You're running now, you said.

• 46:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, oh, I run often.

• 46:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 46:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I used to run for very long distances, like eight, eight and a half miles a day, like, oh, yeah.

• 46:26Craig Robinson?

  That's non-basketball player-esque right there.

• 46:29Speaker 00

  But that's hit by a truck-esque.

• 46:30Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 46:31Speaker 00

  That's like, when somebody, when they say you might not be able to walk, you are invalid, you like, I'm, I'm running until something stops me.

• 46:39Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 46:40Michelle Obama?

  What's it like being a, a, a tall, beautiful black woman in stand-up? Because you, you know, like you, you said in your stand-up, you got a little bit, and Muslim, and.

• 46:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:54Michelle Obama?

  You know, that, that's a lot to navigate in, uh, in an industry that isn't known for being inclusive. What's that been like for you?

• 47:05Speaker 00

  This might sound like, um, a little bit naive, but I forget that I'm beautiful. Like I don't, but I do. No, no, no, no, hear me out, hear me out. Like, like I don't forget, like it doesn't go in the reverse, I'm not like, I'm ugly, right? Like, no, no, no.

• 47:23Craig Robinson?

  Well, yeah.

• 47:24Speaker 00

  You know, but like, sometimes I'm just so focused on, like I wanna, I want them to understand what I'm gonna say, I wanna, I want them to get my bit.

• 47:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 47:36Speaker 00

  I'm going out to strangers who sometimes are from a very different like walk of life, and I want them, I have to get them to understand me quick, and then try and make it funny. And so sometimes I'm so focused on that, I forget, like, oh yeah, I'm 5'11" and I'm beautiful, like I forget that until I walk out and they're like, you know, like they really are, like have to take it in, and then I'm like, oh. And, and, and it's, it's not comedy, that doesn't service comedy. People think that it does, but it doesn't service comedy. And so I used to address it, maybe I'll start, I used to, I used to tell this joke, when I had them like, you know, when I knew they liked me.

• 48:17Speaker 00

  Because don't nobody want to hear somebody say they're beautiful if they don't like you, you know what I'm saying? They're like, girl, get off this stage, right? But when I, I would give them a few jokes, and then I would be like, um, what was the joke? I just, I don't, jokes, you forget them when you stop doing them.

• 48:30Craig Robinson?

  That's okay, we're not judging.

• 48:31Speaker 00

  I used to say, um.

• 48:33Craig Robinson?

  You have established you're very funny. So if you say something that's not funny, it's just like regular discussion.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  Okay, okay.

• 48:40Craig Robinson?

  You're like at our table.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  I used to say, uh, I used to do this joke, when people tell you you're beautiful, they think it's the first time you've heard it. And so I would be like, this guy stopped me, like it was a state of emergency, he was like, ma'am, do you know you're stunning? And I would be like, yeah.

• 49:00Speaker 00

  And he wouldn't know, what he would be like.

• 49:02Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 49:03Speaker 00

  You know, like what else, what else you got? Like I would pep talk him through the rest of the, you know?

• 49:08Michelle Obama?

  Is there more?

• 49:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:09Michelle Obama?

  And you got a follow-up?

• 49:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:11Craig Robinson?

  So speaking of that, is it hard to meet guys because you're so beautiful?

• 49:17Craig Robinson?

  Because it, it, that's a thing, right?

• 49:20Speaker 00

  I think more so it's the funny part.

• 49:22Craig Robinson?

  Really?

• 49:23Speaker 00

  I think it's the funny part.

• 49:24Craig Robinson?

  No way, you think the funny part is intimidate, more intimidating than the, the pretty, the beautiful part?

• 49:29Speaker 00

  I think there's, I think there's a lot of beautiful women, I, I see beautiful women every single day. I see, I see women who take my breath away every single day. The funny part is the part that, when I, when I'm, when I'm on a date with a, with a man and he's giving me jokes, it's like, this is not what I want.

• 49:47Craig Robinson?

  Oh.

• 49:48Speaker 00

  I'd rather know that you have health insurance.

• 49:52Speaker 00

  I'd rather, how long have you been at your job? How do you, where's your mom? How do you feel about? I don't need you to make me laugh.

• 49:58Craig Robinson?

  Are guys, are guys trying to make you laugh? Oh, no.

• 50:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, they want to be funny. But the thing is, as a comedian, I'm around like some of the funniest men on earth.

• 50:09Michelle Obama?

  It's like you, you, you're not gonna.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  Just don't, and don't, and I don't want to date the funniest men on earth.

• 50:15Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:16Speaker 00

  I want to date, are you an engineer? Tell me about it.

• 50:18Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, right, right.

• 50:20Michelle Obama?

  Let's go in.

• 50:21Speaker 00

  That's what I want.

• 50:22Craig Robinson?

  That's like, that's like trying to go play Steph Curry in one-on-one.

• 50:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:27Craig Robinson?

  You're not gonna win.

• 50:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're not gonna win, yeah.

• 50:30Michelle Obama?

  What's dating like in, in, at this stage in life? You were famous, you're beaut, are you on, do you do the apps? Do you?

• 50:38Speaker 00

  I got on an app once, we talk about it on the special.

• 50:41Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 50:41Speaker 00

  Yep, I got on an app once. Um, I'm not on the apps because, um, but I'm not against them. Like I would encourage any other woman in the world to get on the app.

• 50:51Michelle Obama?

  It's like, how you gonna meet people?

• 50:53Speaker 00

  Exactly, how are you gonna meet people? Uh, it's funny, I say, I say that in the special, you know, people are like, I just want to meet, and I'm like, well, where do you go? And I'm like, I'm just in my house, and I'm like, well, that's, you know, that's a crime. So, uh, you know, are you gonna fall in love with the person who does a home invasion? You gotta ask yourself that.

• 51:12Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:13Speaker 00

  You know?

• 51:15Speaker 00

  But I, I don't particularly love apps for me for two reasons. Part of like the fun in dating for me is spontaneity. I kind of like not knowing.

• 51:30Speaker 00

  You know, I kinda like us figuring it out together. And finding it together. Yeah, but also, it does feel a bit unfair as like a public facing person to like go into meeting somebody and they know so much about me and I know nothing. I know nothing about them yet, but I also don't know how much they know about me.

• 51:54Craig Robinson?

  Is it unfair to you or unfair to them?

• 51:57Speaker 00

  I, I, I, I, I'm, it's unfair to me, I think. It might, I don't know if it's unfair to them. I haven't even considered it. You're making me consider something new.

• 52:07Speaker 00

  But to me, it kinda, it feels like I'm like a, it, it just, it just feels a little bit unfair. And very recently, very recently, a friend of mine, a friend of, another comedian, asked a friend of mine, uh, is, cause I was on my way to a show. And he was like, I'm gonna wait around for Zayn. And my friend was like, okay. And he was like, yeah, is she single? Is she? And my friend was like, who knows me well, she was trying to tell him like, you could probably go. You could get out of here.

• 52:43Craig Robinson?

  Just don't wait around. Don't wait around.

• 52:46Speaker 00

  And she's like, okay. And he's like telling her like why he's interested in me. And the first thing that I did, this is why I say it's unfair to know who's. Cause the first thing I did when she told me, she was, I was like, oh, he's a comedian. And she said, yeah. And I just immediately went to look for his comedy.

• 53:03Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:05Craig Robinson?

  And the crowd grows.

• 53:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, I went to look for his comedy, you know, and yeah.

• 53:13Craig Robinson?

  Is he funny?

• 53:13Speaker 00

  He's funny.

• 53:15Michelle Obama?

  Enough.

• 53:16Craig Robinson?

  You have to say that.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  He's funny enough.

• 53:18Craig Robinson?

  You might as well have said he wasn't funny.

• 53:20Michelle Obama?

  He's perfectly funny.

• 53:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's funny. He's funny enough.

• 53:23Craig Robinson?

  He's fine. It's fine.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, I like, I, I think it's nice. A lot of people like to meet people through people.

• 53:28Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 53:29Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  I think the referral is nice, but I've had that go bad too. And it, and it, and it almost sucks, cause it's like, um, it's like, it went bad with me, but then it's like now my friend doesn't wanna be that guy's friend anymore.

• 53:44Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 53:45Speaker 00

  You know, like.

• 53:46Michelle Obama?

  It's a little embarrassing. It's just like, like, like passing gas in a room.

• 53:50Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 53:50Michelle Obama?

  It's just like, I'm, I'm not going back in there.

• 53:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:57Craig Robinson?

  You even have to, look, look at you. You know that was disgusting. Nobody wants to hear Michelle Obama says like passing gas in a room.

• 54:05Speaker 00

  No, we do wanna hear it. We wanna hear it.

• 54:09Craig Robinson?

  She can't even stand herself. Look at it.

• 54:13Craig Robinson?

  You're lucky mom's not here.

• 54:16Craig Robinson?

  Goodness.

• 54:17Speaker 00

  We love it. Everybody's gonna be like, did you hear her say? We love it. We love it.

• 54:29Craig Robinson?

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• 55:13Craig Robinson?

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• 55:38Craig Robinson?

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• 56:23Craig Robinson?

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• 57:06Michelle Obama?

  How does life, how has life changed for you?

• 57:11Michelle Obama?

  As you've ascended, you know? Do you feel famous? Do you feel more restricted? Do you, are you still out there like real people?

• 57:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm, I'm very much out there like real people. And I, I think that I, I'm like getting comfortable with like, how famous do you wanna be? How big do you wanna be? Cause you really do like just getting on the train. I really do like just being out in the world, you know?

• 57:44Speaker 00

  But people film me without me knowing. I mean, we do that to each other anyway.

• 57:50Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 57:51Speaker 00

  But I feel like the biggest thing is, cause, cause people have like a misconception of like public, you see, I'm not saying famous, but like, I guess just public facing people.

• 58:03Michelle Obama?

  I see you avoiding it.

• 58:05Speaker 00

  But I don't think I'm confident enough to be like, cause you know, as a famous comedian.

• 58:10Speaker 00

  I'm like, it, it sounds so much better when someone else says it.

• 58:12Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 58:14Speaker 00

  But I think that,

• 58:18Speaker 00

  you know, you, you earlier said you always want to show up as your true self.

• 58:25Speaker 00

  And I think the moment you know you're like constantly being watched, and not watched, but like people have an expectation of you, it just, it just makes you feel, it just kinda constricts your behavior, you know?

• 58:43Speaker 00

  And so, there's some times where I'll find myself in, I don't know if it's an uncomfortable situation, but a, but a situation that I may handle a certain way, right? But because I know the person is a fan, I feel like I can't.

• 59:03Craig Robinson?

  I know exactly.

• 59:04Speaker 00

  I feel like I can't like live in the, the, the truth of the moment, you know?

• 59:09Craig Robinson?

  Yes. You can't tell them off. You can't tell them off. That's what you're trying to say.

• 59:12Speaker 00

  Or, or I can't just educate them into a boundary that they're crossing.

• 59:19Craig Robinson?

  Nicely tell them off, right? Nicely tell them off that.

• 59:23Speaker 00

  A little bit of, I'm training myself in media.

• 59:25Craig Robinson?

  That's very good.

• 59:28Speaker 00

  And so, things like that. But other than that, it's like, I'm still, I like hearing, I like, I like, you know, I like this, the pleasant surprise of like just being on a flight and like waking up and like I have like a really lovely note from the flight attendant telling me how some, some joke of mine got her or him through something like I, that makes me, it really affirms me actually. You know, it's much more affirming at this point and at this level than it is annoying, you know? But I know what I signed up for, so.

• 1:00:08Craig Robinson?

  Well, Zayn, we always wanna help our listener with a listener question, but before we get to the listener question, I know that my sister wants to talk to you about that badass suit you got on.

• 1:00:22Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:23Craig Robinson?

  In fashion.

• 1:00:24Speaker 00

  I, I, I wasn't gonna ask.

• 1:00:29Speaker 00

  I love, I love the setup to the, to the, to the, to the letdown. I love it.

• 1:00:34Craig Robinson?

  It's a.

• 1:00:35Speaker 00

  Actually, I didn't, I didn't.

• 1:00:36Craig Robinson?

  It's a.

• 1:00:37Speaker 00

  No, no, no.

• 1:00:39Speaker 00

  But you know, the comedian in me loves, I didn't care at all.

• 1:00:45Michelle Obama?

  I wasn't gonna mention it, but I have been sitting here watching it for sure.

• 1:00:50Craig Robinson?

  I know she has.

• 1:00:51Speaker 00

  I hope it looks okay.

• 1:00:51Michelle Obama?

  It looks so good.

• 1:00:52Craig Robinson?

  That's a nice suit now.

• 1:00:54Michelle Obama?

  It is the first thing I noticed, but I was like, for whatever reason, I was like, we don't have to go into fashion.

• 1:00:59Speaker 00

  And you don't. We can go into fashion.

• 1:01:01Craig Robinson?

  But let me tell you, let me tell you how my sister. This is how I know my sister, since, you know, we do these in bunches, right? So I was giving her like the little behind the back pass.

• 1:01:10Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:01:11Craig Robinson?

  Up in the ass so she could just like.

• 1:01:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, you locked it to her. And she was like, oh.

• 1:01:15Michelle Obama?

  And I was like, don't. It's like, no, I wasn't actually, no, but what is that? Whose suit is that?

• 1:01:21Speaker 00

  Whose suit is it? This suit is from the Frankie Shop. I realized that if ever I seem confident, it's because I'm super comfortable. And I, and it's so hard to be comfortable if you're worried about like how something is fitting you.

• 1:01:39Michelle Obama?

  I say that all the time, yeah.

• 1:01:40Speaker 00

  It's so, because it's occupying your mind.

• 1:01:43Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:01:43Speaker 00

  And for me to be quick on my feet, I can't be worried about what I look like.

• 1:01:48Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:48Speaker 00

  And so I also, you know, it's like, I'm 5'11", let's not put this to waste. You know?

• 1:01:55Speaker 00

  You know, it's like a, truly.

• 1:01:56Michelle Obama?

  It's like, yes and yes, it all looks good.

• 1:01:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:59Michelle Obama?

  I will take it.

• 1:01:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, and so I like a, I like a very specific look on me. I like anything that I deem as like classic.

• 1:02:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  Like if you see me today, or you see me 20 years from now, you'll still go, that looks good.

• 1:02:13Michelle Obama?

  And you're also, you know, demanding more. I mean, the, your prime special, you negotiated in a, to own that. You, you go, you went in knowing, just like in this special.

• 1:02:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Michelle Obama?

  How you want it filmed, what you wanted it to be, the fact that that special was in the round. That was a clear choice that you made.

• 1:02:37Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:02:37Michelle Obama?

  That a lot of first time comedy special people, you know.

• 1:02:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, they leave it up to other people.

• 1:02:43Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, a lot of people in the credits of my first special, like people will reach out to them, like, you produced Zainab's special. You know, you directed, you did this, and can you do my special? And they would be like, yes, but also you should know.

• 1:02:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:56Speaker 00

  That was all her, I'm talking like, that was all her. Like we, you know, physically like helped her bring her thing to life, but that was, she was very particular.

• 1:03:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:07Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:09Michelle Obama?

  Good at everything. Oh, she didn't lie. She didn't lie.

• 1:03:14Craig Robinson?

  Well, let's see if she's good at giving advice.

• 1:03:16Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 1:03:17Michelle Obama?

  I wonder, I doubt it.

• 1:03:18Speaker 00

  You doubt it?

• 1:03:20Michelle Obama?

  I don't think she has enough opinions. No, I'm just being sorry.

• 1:03:23Speaker 00

  Now, we can all give advice, good advice is different.

• 1:03:27Michelle Obama?

  Well, let's hear from our listener.

• 1:03:29Speaker 04

  Hi, IMO, my name is Sydney and I'm a college student who just got a job writing for my school newspaper. I'm very nervous, but thrilled to get the job. I've recently been assigned a few pieces, but as I get started, I'm curious, what are some ways I can go about finding my voice as a writer? I'm sure it'll come with time, but I just wanted to get your advice on practices you can try to do to find your creative voice. And this is from Sydney, who's 19 in Colorado Springs.

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  I always encourage people, especially when they're trying to find their voice, and this is how I found my voice, is start with the truth.

• 1:04:12Speaker 00

  Start with the truth. Whatever you care about, especially a newspaper, don't, don't try to write something that you think people care about. Start with what do you care about? And so I would write down pet peeves. And that helped me talk about with my early material, like, yeah, this does annoy me. Oh, I feel, oh, I got a lot of jokes about that, you know? But yeah, the truth.

• 1:04:37Craig Robinson?

  The truth.

• 1:04:37Speaker 00

  The truth, I think, is the key to your voice. And yeah, with practice, you'll get better and you'll learn some things, but yeah, the truth.

• 1:04:49Michelle Obama?

  And that resonates. I still think that creativity is a practice. You know, it's a muscle that you, you, you have to, that, that you have to.

• 1:05:00Craig Robinson?

  To work on.

• 1:05:00Michelle Obama?

  To work on, to put time into. You know, I think some young people may feel like, if you're creative, it's just because you were born that way. You're just naturally funny and you can naturally sing. But the best of the best people put hours and hours.

• 1:05:16Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05:17Michelle Obama?

  Into their craft.

• 1:05:18Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:19Michelle Obama?

  You know, they like, like a jump shot, you know?

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:22Michelle Obama?

  You don't get good at it if you don't practice. And when it comes to writing.

• 1:05:26Craig Robinson?

  Such a great point.

• 1:05:27Michelle Obama?

  You got it, you gotta write.

• 1:05:28Speaker 00

  You have to, you have to write.

• 1:05:29Michelle Obama?

  You just have to write and then write about anything. Just write, you know, that's journaling and, and writing down your thoughts and observations, using Substacks and all the, use the, the, the current technology to, you know, fuel your practice.

• 1:05:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:48Craig Robinson?

  You can tell we're in the same family because she was, she was going one way and then she decided to take my answer, but that, that was, that, that was exactly what I was gonna say. And, and, and we've talked about this on IMO before. My sister was a great creative writer when she was like eight years, seven, eight years old. She wrote the funniest stories, so just start writing and you'll be on your way.

• 1:06:11Michelle Obama?

  Another thing you said that I, I wanted to touch on, in terms of the kind of freedom that you want to have as a black female comedian. You made the point when you told, ended your set.

• 1:06:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:26Michelle Obama?

  Talking about a possum.

• 1:06:28Speaker 00

  Yes. Yes.

• 1:06:30Michelle Obama?

  Your interaction with the possum.

• 1:06:32Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:06:33Michelle Obama?

  And I was like, mic drop.

• 1:06:36Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:06:36Michelle Obama?

  You know, because that's one of those where you took us so confidently to this place.

• 1:06:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:43Michelle Obama?

  And ended with a clear and powerful point about why you, you, you did that.

• 1:06:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:49Michelle Obama?

  I want to end with you talking about that a little bit and what that, what that meant to you.

• 1:06:57Speaker 00

  I love that we're talking about this right now because sometimes in standup, you have to fight for bits.

• 1:07:04Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  And it's a long bit and people are worried about people's attention span. So a lot of feedback was like, are you, like, we love the point that you're making, but is there another way to make this point? And I'm like, no. And I felt I, along with a lot of other women who look like me or are othered, you know? We have a, the obligation to speak like real, to talk about like these harder things and not to be able to play. And I, I wanted to play on purpose, you know?

• 1:07:45Speaker 00

  Because I wanted anybody who watches me to have the permission to play.

• 1:07:53Michelle Obama?

  The point you're saying is that certain comedians have the freedom to be anything in their standup. But a lot of times, women or black women, we have to talk about menopause, we have to talk about our man, and we have to talk about our sorrow.

• 1:08:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I am being defiant in what I believe is like a creative way, but I'm also just bringing attention to.

• 1:08:13Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. That was powerful.

• 1:08:14Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:08:15Craig Robinson?

  Well, I'm looking forward to Toxically. I'll be able to say it by the time, by the time it comes out, I'll be able to say it.

• 1:08:23Speaker 00

  Okay, okay.

• 1:08:24Michelle Obama?

  Talk about, when's it coming out? So I look, because we, this, this podcast is gonna air right around the time.

• 1:08:30Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:08:30Michelle Obama?

  So we're doing some dual promotion here. Talk, talk a bit about when, when, where, how, all the things.

• 1:08:37Speaker 00

  Toxically Optimistic will be out on Netflix, October 27th, that is Tuesday, that is when all the specials drop on Netflix, Tuesday, October 27th. So stream it, stream it again, stream it again.

• 1:08:50Michelle Obama?

  Don't miss it, y'all.

• 1:08:51Speaker 00

  Don't miss it.

• 1:08:51Michelle Obama?

  I'm telling you, this woman, Zainab Johnson, she is all of that, and I am so glad I stalked you.

• 1:08:58Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:08:59Michelle Obama?

  You do not disappoint, ever.

• 1:09:01Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:09:02Craig Robinson?

  Thanks for being here.

• 1:09:03Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:09:03Craig Robinson?

  And you know what? We like you.

• 1:09:30Craig Robinson?

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• 1:10:14Craig Robinson?

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