Pod Insights IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth About this episode Michelle sits down solo with author, businesswoman, and all around multihyphenate, Elaine Welteroth, to answer a listener's question about a dating red-flag. Elaine tells the story of past romance with her own “Br. Big,” and how it nearly set her off course from the family goals she cared most about. Michelle talks about the importance of dating before marriage and highlights a concept that should be paid more attention: being the “chooser,” not the chosen.
Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 So this is, I've never told anyone this, Mrs. Obama, but I'm gonna tell you this because it applies to this person's situation. When I was 25, I happened to be dating. Don't judge me, Mrs. Obama.
0:15 Michelle Obama? Okay, let's hear it.
0:16 Speaker 00 Okay.
0:17 Michelle Obama? You promise?
0:17 Speaker 00 I don't know.
0:18 Michelle Obama? Is this a safe space?
0:19 Speaker 00 Right now, it's a safe space. It's a space.
0:21 Michelle Obama? You have two daughters.
0:22 Speaker 00 I'm sure they brought you some, some, some stuff.
0:24 Michelle Obama? Oh, please.
0:25 Speaker 00 And you've had to keep the...
0:26 Michelle Obama? And some things I've had to say, don't tell your father that, okay?
0:35 Michelle Obama? This episode is brought to you by Pine Sol and Theraplu. Well, hey, hey! I am here, we are here chatting. I'm solo this time. I usually have my big brother Craig to join me in these conversations, but he's feeling under the weather. So, but we're gonna proceed without him because we've got a great question that is perfect for our guest. And I wanna welcome one of my favorite people, Elaine Walter Roth, who, you know, goes without any introduction. She is beautiful, smart, sharp, awesome. Her resume, she's a New York Times bestselling author,
1:16 Michelle Obama? award-winning journalist, former judge on one of my favorite shows that I still never got to go and sit and judge.
1:25 Speaker 00 It could still happen.
1:26 Michelle Obama? Project Runway. We'll, we'll see. It's on my bucket list. Another thing that you are known for is being at the helm of Teen Vogue, doing great things. But you've also launched Birth Fund, which is a foundation that provides grants for midwifery, birth support, and holistic prenatal care for mothers. And I didn't know about that work. You're doing it all.
1:55 Speaker 00 Look who's talking.
1:58 Michelle Obama? Thanks for being here, Elaine. We've got a great question that's right up your alley. But before we jump in, I just want to check, how you doing? You look great. Feeling great. You got some things going on.
2:09 Speaker 00 Some things.
2:09 Michelle Obama? Some things. Tell us all about life.
2:12 Speaker 00 Some big things are popping, literally, about to. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. What a dream. I am 33 weeks pregnant, 32, I think 32 weeks pregnant today.
2:23 Michelle Obama? Congratulations.
2:24 Speaker 00 Thank you so much. This is the perfect way to bless the bump.
2:28 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
2:29 Speaker 00 Before we get into that final, final stretch. But.
2:31 Michelle Obama? But it's a good segue into, well, it's almost a good segue because it's like before you get to having the baby.
2:39 Speaker 00 You gotta choose who you're gonna do it with.
2:40 Michelle Obama? You gotta figure out who you're gonna have it with. And that takes us to our question for today from a young woman named Alice, who's 30 years old and is trying to figure out this whole mothering thing.
2:55 Speaker 02 Hi, Michelle. My name is Alice. I'm 30 years old and I've been in a relationship for about six years. I desperately want to have children and I know that I want to be a mom. However, my boyfriend doesn't feel ready and doesn't think he will ever want kids. But he's not totally sure. We're very much in love and do see a future together, but I just can't imagine a life without children. And I feel like I need to know soon whether or not that's in the cards for us so I can move on if I need to. So my question is, have you ever seen a man change his mind about wanting kids in his 30s? And if so, what prompted it? And if we do decide to break up and I re-enter the dating scene, what important questions should I be asking potential suitors
3:38 Speaker 02 to avoid spending another six years in a relationship where our visions are not aligned? Thank you.
3:45 Michelle Obama? So, yeah, this speaks to you, doesn't it?
3:48 Speaker 00 It speaks to 25-year-old me, it does.
3:52 Michelle Obama? Really? So these were, yeah, and I get these kind of questions from my young staff, my mentees, you know, at that age. And a lot of women are struggling with the finding a mate, finding a good mate, dealing with the biological time clock, thinking about freezing eggs, just feels more fraught.
4:17 Michelle Obama? Then it maybe even was for me when I was that age. But I want to hear a bit of your journey around this, this question.
4:29 Speaker 00 So this is, I've never told anyone this, Mrs. Obama, but I'm going to tell you this. Because it applies to this person's situation. When I was 25, I happened to be dating. Don't judge me, Mrs. Obama.
4:44 Michelle Obama? Okay, let's hear it.
4:45 Speaker 00 Okay. You promise.
4:46 Michelle Obama? I don't know.
4:47 Speaker 00 Is it a safe space?
4:48 Michelle Obama? Right now, it's a safe space. It's a space.
4:50 Speaker 00 You have two daughters. I'm sure they brought you some, some, some stuff.
4:53 Michelle Obama? Oh, please.
4:54 Speaker 00 And you've had to keep the.
4:55 Michelle Obama? And some things I've had to say, don't tell your father that. Okay? Just keep that between us.
4:59 Speaker 00 Let's just say this is one of those things.
5:01 Michelle Obama? Okay.
5:01 Speaker 00 This is one of those things. So when I was 25, I found myself in love with a 50-year-old man.
5:08 Michelle Obama? Okay. All right.
5:10 Speaker 00 And this 50-year-old man already had children. And at the time, you know, I really wasn't thinking about children.
5:19 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
5:20 Speaker 00 And we were having a great time. You know, really wasn't worried about the future. But the deeper we got into the relationship, it came up.
5:30 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
5:31 Speaker 00 That he didn't want to have children.
5:32 Michelle Obama? How long were you dating before you?
5:35 Speaker 00 It came up pretty, pretty early on, I would say. And when he said he didn't want to have kids, I kind of heard what she heard, which is like, well, maybe there's still a chance, right? You know, I think when we're young, we think that we can maybe change people. And we think that maybe we could inspire a change, right? Like, love conquers all and love. But you know, there are some practicalities in life that you do have to consider. And one of the most important things that my mom has ever told me, that Maya Angelou has said, is that when somebody shows you who they are.
6:13 Michelle Obama? Believe them.
6:15 Speaker 00 Or in this case, tells you who they are. Believe them.
6:17 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
6:18 Speaker 00 The first time.
6:19 Michelle Obama? That's right.
6:20 Speaker 00 And this applies in this situation. If this man has said to you, I love you, but I don't want to have kids. And if you know deep down that that is something you really, really want. You have to-
6:34 Michelle Obama? You gotta know that and keep it moving.
6:36 Speaker 00 You gotta, unfortunately, you might have to wrap things up.
6:39 Michelle Obama? How long were you in the relationship before you kinda thought, mm?
6:43 Speaker 00 A year.
6:43 Michelle Obama? Okay, well, see, that's-
6:45 Speaker 00 Yeah.
6:45 Michelle Obama? Truthfully, at 25 or 30, you know, young women are still figuring themselves out, you know, and just to cut you a little bit of slack, at 25-
6:57 Speaker 00 Please.
6:58 Michelle Obama? You were a baby-
6:59 Speaker 00 Yeah.
7:00 Michelle Obama? You know, and you were still figuring out who you were, and in our 20s, we are more malleable. You know, we're more open to possibilities. And you're with an older man who makes you feel mature and you feel secure in it. I mean, my question is not to you at 25, but it's to him at 50.
7:23 Speaker 00 I have the same question now, looking back, as a 37-year-old woman, I have the same question now.
7:27 Michelle Obama? Right, now, I mean, because first of all, it's like, a 50-year-old man is dating a child, and that may feel fun and easy, right, and in so many ways, but my question to him is, why are you wasting her time? And you know you don't want to have kids, you know? So, some of the burden is on the guy. He's already been married, has had his kids, you know, so it takes two. And at 25, you learned an important lesson.
8:02 Speaker 00 I want to tell Alice that sometimes, the prayers that go unanswered-
8:07 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
8:08 Speaker 00 -are the ones you will be the most grateful for down the line. Because I will tell you now, looking back, woo, thank you, Jesus, that I did not end up going down that path and hoping that this man would change his mind. And, you know, God forbid, he did.
8:23 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm.
8:24 Speaker 00 One of the things he would say, and I gotta give him credit, he did say, "I do not want you to look up in your 30s." And go, I gave the best years of my life to this guy. When we don't want the same things going into the future. And he said, he would say, you know, having kids is a young man's game. And at 25, I didn't get that. At 37, going on two kids with an energetic young man who was my age, who can keep up with me. Oh, I get it now. It is, it is something that you have to have the conviction. And I think that, you know, in relationships, yes, you have to make compromises. And yes, you will, you'll hear that a lot from married couples.
9:08 Speaker 00 But there are some things you do not compromise on. And kids is one of them. If you do not have the conviction, if you don't really, really desire that, you are better off not wasting another person's time and entering into that lifelong partnership. Because if you can't support her fully in motherhood, leave her alone.
9:30 Michelle Obama? There are many ways to live a full life. And, you know, we're raised as young women to think it's marriage, it's kids, in that order. And that's one thing we don't have control over. You know, you don't know if you're gonna fall in love. You don't know if you're gonna have, find the right person. You don't know how life is gonna unfold.
9:54 Speaker 00 That the truth.
9:55 Michelle Obama? And I find that, I, I know some of my young mentees feel less than because they haven't found somebody or they haven't had a child. And it breaks my heart because these are beautiful, smart women who have amazing lives. But because one piece of the puzzle isn't there, a piece that they've been told their whole lives they should want and have, it's almost like life has no purpose.
10:28 Michelle Obama? And one of the things I want my daughters, I'm trying to deprogram them from that belief that there's a certain way to be a woman Yeah. in this world. Because I don't know what their future is gonna hold. So I don't talk about when you become a mother or when you get married. I say, well, if you find somebody, if you choose that, if that's something you want for yourself, but understand that you can have a beautiful life without all that. Absolutely. You know, you are not less of a person because somebody didn't choose you or you didn't find somebody.
11:14 Craig Robinson? This episode is brought to you by Theraplu. We've partnered with Theraplu to spread awareness about the amazing work they're doing to fight for paid sick days for all workers in America. Meech, don't you remember when Dad didn't feel comfortable taking paid sick days?
11:33 Michelle Obama? Well, I didn't realize he didn't feel comfortable. And just to remind folks, our Dad was a blue collar worker. He worked as a stationary fireman for the water filtration plant for the city of Chicago. So he was a shift worker.
11:48 Michelle Obama? But I do, what I remember is that our Dad never, I can't remember him ever taking a sick day
11:56 Michelle Obama? or a day off other than his assigned vacation days.
12:01 Craig Robinson? Never.
12:02 Michelle Obama? And I didn't know why. I just thought, you know, he just had a great work ethic, which I think he did.
12:07 Craig Robinson? Which he did, but he never, it seemed like he was either never sick, which we know now was impossible.
12:13 Michelle Obama? Well, our father had multiple sclerosis. So I would imagine there were days that he woke up and he probably felt tired. He probably felt a level of exhaustion that came with the disease. But he just pushed through.
12:27 Craig Robinson? He just really just fought through it and didn't want to take any sick days and...
12:32 Michelle Obama? Like too many folks in this country.
12:36 Craig Robinson? Right.
12:36 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
12:36 Craig Robinson? Right, right. Theraplu firmly believes that the ability to rest and recover when sick should be a right, not a privilege. And I love that. Therapflu's Right to Rest and Recover campaign was created to help offset the financial burden that Americans without paid sick leave feel when they take a sick day. So far, seven and a half million workers have been impacted by this initiative, and Therapflu is committed to keeping the fight going because no one should have to work sick or choose between their health and their job. Learn more or help someone apply for the fund at therapflu.com/righttorecover.
13:19 Craig Robinson? We are so thrilled that Pine-Sol is a partner of IMO. Pine-Sol has been connected to our family forever. To this day, whenever my sister and I catch the scent of Pine-Sol, we automatically feel better about life. The smell of Pine-Sol has always taken us back to our childhood home. It is amazing how smells can transport you to a place or a moment in time. Another smell that takes me back is cherry blossoms, which always remind me of visiting Michelle in DC. That's why I'm excited for Pine-Sol's newest scent, Cherry Blossom. The cleaning power you know and love from Pine-Sol is available in a
14:00 Craig Robinson? new scent this spring, Cherry Blossom, which is light and fresh and leaves a lasting floral scent while eliminating tough dirt, grease, and grime. You can use Pine-Sol Cherry Blossom Multi-Surface Cleaner to help deodorize and clean hard, non-porous surfaces, including floors, sinks, counters, stoves, bathtubs, shower stalls, tile, and more. Visit pine-sol.com to find where to shop Pine-Sol Multi-Surface Cleaner in the new Fresh Cherry Blossom scent.
14:41 Michelle Obama? And especially for black women, you know, I mean, we can talk about how hard it is to be chosen in this day and age.
14:49 Speaker 00 I love to talk about being the choosers, though.
14:52 Michelle Obama? I know.
14:52 Speaker 00 I love, I do. Well, let's talk about that. Well, I think, I do think there's this, this narrative that you have to wait to be chosen.
15:00 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
15:01 Speaker 00 And what it means to be chosen by a man. And I think I had that, I call it the Carrie Bradshaw complex. You know, growing up with Sex and the City as the kind of the-
15:09 Michelle Obama? Waiting for Mr. Big to show up.
15:12 Speaker 00 And that was my Mr. Big. That was my black Mr. Big. And, and I'm so glad that, that in that stage of life, God did not give me what I thought I wanted and needed. Because what I got was what I truly deserve. And I'll tell you, that breakup was the hardest breakup because it represented the, this like-
15:32 Michelle Obama? The breakup with the older guy.
15:33 Speaker 00 The breakup with the older guy that I thought I wanted to do it all with, was one of the hardest breakups for me because it was the disillusion of this constructed, concocted dream that had been fed to me, that I embraced as like the only way to do it.
15:52 Michelle Obama? That's what I'm, yeah.
15:54 Speaker 00 Right? And it was like this idea that some man is gonna come along and save me and choose me and give me this life. You go to New York, you, you, you live your big fabulous life. And then you gotta find the guy with, you know, the money bags, the guy with, with, with all the things going on. If you think, if you really stop, you're like, wait a minute. And we call ourselves feminists?
16:17 Michelle Obama? Yeah, that's right.
16:17 Speaker 00 And we're subscribing to this notion?
16:19 Michelle Obama? Yes.
16:19 Speaker 00 So it took a lot of unlearning for me to realize that, hold on a minute. I can be that rich, successful man that I was told to marry. I could be that one. And I can choose the kind of partner that is going to complement my life, my dreams, and what I want, and vice versa.
16:43 Michelle Obama? What flipped that switch for you? Was it the breakup?
16:46 Speaker 00 Jonathan, the breakup was, was the humbling.
16:50 Speaker 00 But also of, I wouldn't just say humbling. It was, it was a moment of empowerment because I decided to lead that relationship.
16:57 Michelle Obama? So what, what stopped you from feeling defeated in that moment?
17:02 Speaker 00 I'm sure I felt defeated.
17:04 Michelle Obama? A lot of women will experience a breakup from Mr. Big and they'll think it's me.
17:08 Speaker 00 Yeah.
17:08 Michelle Obama? Because taking that power back in relationships and dating, a lot of us don't do that. So what, what do you think? Well, got you to a, a better place?
17:21 Speaker 00 It wasn't my first time at the rodeo.
17:22 Michelle Obama? Okay.
17:23 Speaker 00 You know, I had had a couple of relationships before that, that taught me this really important lesson. And I remember this is something that Oprah said, "You walk at the whisper before it becomes a roar."
17:38 Speaker 00 I had not done that in the relationship prior to dating this older man. And I thought, the one thing I know for sure is that I will never wait for the roar again.
17:51 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
17:51 Speaker 00 And so one of the contracts that we made when we first came together, because at the, just so you know, just so you know, Mrs. Obama, I did not know the man's age.
17:59 Michelle Obama? Okay.
18:00 Speaker 00 When we started dating and he didn't know my age.
18:02 Michelle Obama? I'm not feeling him, this guy.
18:03 Speaker 00 I know, you're like my mama, you're like my mama. My mom, my mom told me this summer, finally told me, she said, "That was one of the hardest times in my life as a mother."
18:11 Michelle Obama? It was hard for her to watch you go through that.
18:14 Speaker 00 And I was like, "Mom, you acted like you were fine with it." She was like, "That was an act." That's exactly what that was.
18:20 Michelle Obama? And if she had said something, you would have dated him for another two years.
18:23 Speaker 00 That's what she said.
18:24 Michelle Obama? That was the, that was her expertise at work there.
18:28 Speaker 00 You guys were talking?
18:29 Michelle Obama? You know, I could feel it.
18:30 Speaker 00 You can feel it.
18:31 Michelle Obama? Because I don't even know the dude and I'm mad at him.
18:35 Speaker 00 Well, he's out of the picture.
18:36 Michelle Obama? Okay, okay.
18:37 Speaker 00 But, but just so we all are clear here, I did not know his age. He didn't know my age until we were further down the line. So we made a pact with each other and we said, he said, actually, "Can you let me know if you're ever not having fun? If, if you're not happy anymore, will you let me be the first to know?" And that coupled with this idea that Oprah, Mrs. Oprah Winfrey has planted in my mind, it allowed me to do these self-check-ins. And the deeper we got into the relationship and the more that I recognized that while I may not want to have a kid today, I can't really envision my life without the experience of becoming a mom. And when I do that,
19:20 Speaker 00 I really, I want an enthusiastic partner in that. And I will not have that in this relationship.
19:29 Michelle Obama? You don't want to pull somebody kicking and screaming into parenthood.
19:32 Speaker 00 I didn't want that for myself. And so I thought, you know, this is one of those decisions. I am at a crossroads. I can either take what he's willing to give me or I can cut him loose and allow for the possibility to get what I deserve.
19:50 Michelle Obama? Good for you.
19:51 Speaker 00 And so I packed up my clothes and I left.
19:55 Michelle Obama? And you were living with him too?
19:57 Speaker 00 I wasn't living, I was just staying over there a lot. Mrs. Obama, I have my own apartment, okay? I was an independent woman.
20:02 Michelle Obama? It was like, and you were staying over there?
20:04 Speaker 00 No, no, I was climbing in my career. By the way, I did not slow down in my career for this relationship. I kept climbing and, you know, so I'm very proud of myself for that. I kept on my path. But I decided to leave that relationship to allow for the possibility that it gets better. And do you know that I reunited with Jonathan? This kid from church.
20:28 Michelle Obama? The church boy.
20:29 Speaker 00 The church boy from back there. The good old church boy.
20:32 Michelle Obama? That you overlooked, that you looked right past Jonathan.
20:35 Speaker 00 I sure did, I sure did, Mrs. Obama. And now, we met up, he happened to be in town. We met up and I just remember being like, where did he grow up?
20:45 Michelle Obama? Really?
20:46 Speaker 00 Where did he grow up?
20:46 Michelle Obama? Jonathan, wow. I have always tried to tell, you know, you can't tell your kids anything, but...
20:55 Michelle Obama? There've been some guys in my daughters' lives that I've been like, "Don't sleep on him," you know?
21:01 Speaker 00 That part.
21:02 Michelle Obama? I was like, you know?
21:03 Speaker 00 The nice ones.
21:04 Michelle Obama? The nice ones, right? What is it about the nice ones that there's an age where you just want something bad?
21:11 Speaker 00 Right.
21:11 Michelle Obama? You just want something all wrong.
21:13 Speaker 00 What is that? I had that. I had that syndrome. But we gotta go on our own journeys. And, you know, I will say, I'm so grateful for all the frogs that kissed before meeting what truly is my version, not to be cliche and cheesy, but my version of-
21:29 Michelle Obama? Your real Mr. Big.
21:30 Speaker 00 My real Prince Charming.
21:31 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
21:32 Speaker 00 And I will tell you, right away, I felt at home.
21:36 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
21:37 Speaker 00 I felt my nervous system was calm. It was the opposite of what I felt in these other relationships where it was like,
21:45 Speaker 00 my heart is pounding. It wasn't that. It was this peace.
21:49 Michelle Obama? Say that again.
21:51 Speaker 00 No, really.
21:52 Michelle Obama? For the people in the back. Because, well, to share my experience meeting Barack, right?
21:59 Speaker 00 Yeah, I want to hear that love story.
22:00 Michelle Obama? There was frog kissing. And to anybody out there, no, you're not a frog, but not the right person.
22:07 Speaker 00 Right.
22:08 Michelle Obama? But when I met Barack, and I also think that dating is important.
22:13 Speaker 00 Yep.
22:14 Michelle Obama? You know, because you've gotta try on some things to know what really fits. Because you might not have been able to appreciate Jonathan had you not dated Mr. Big.
22:25 Speaker 00 That part.
22:27 Michelle Obama? So I dated some bigs.
22:31 Speaker 00 You had some Mr. Bigs?
22:32 Michelle Obama? Not old, rich people, but the version of the person who just wasn't right. And I knew they weren't right. But because I had those experiences when Barack showed up. And there was, as you described it, this sort of calm. Right? There wasn't this, there was just complete and total honesty and trust. This was a man who knew what he wanted. So there was none of the guessing games that I think we as women get used to playing and, and kind of enjoy it.
23:08 Speaker 00 Yes.
23:08 Michelle Obama? Being with somebody where it's a total, I don't know if he likes me and maybe he'll call.
23:12 Speaker 00 Right.
23:13 Michelle Obama? You know, we kind of sometimes get into that game and we mistake that game for love.
23:19 Speaker 00 Yep.
23:19 Michelle Obama? But it's a game and it's an uncomfortable game if we're honest with ourselves. Does he, does he really like me? Did he call? I don't know what that meant. Nothing is straightforward. Everything is ambiguous.
23:34 Michelle Obama? And I met somebody who was unambiguous and clear. And that feeling was new, but it was the right feeling to look for. You know, you shouldn't have to wonder about your goals and visions with the person that's right for you. You should be able to have real clear conversations upfront and say, this is who I am. Take it or leave it. Who are you? You know, do you believe in marriage? Do you want kids? Let's not play a guessing game.
24:03 Speaker 00 Yep.
24:03 Michelle Obama? And I try to advise young women in my life not to play games in dating. Ask the questions you need to know and don't be embarrassed by it. Barack was that comfort zone for me. And it was very clear, very early that he was different. And different is good. You know, different is not about games because I didn't want to deal with somebody that I couldn't talk to, that I couldn't trust, that I didn't know what he thought, that wasn't a good communicator.
24:35 Speaker 00 Yep.
24:36 Michelle Obama? And sometimes we look right over those people who are in front of us because we're drawn to the game.
24:44 Speaker 00 Yep.
24:44 Michelle Obama? Woo!
24:45 Speaker 00 You're preaching.
24:46 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah.
24:48 Speaker 00 So did you, to speak about these things early on in your dating life, did you ask, do you want kids? Did you ask, do you want to be married?
24:57 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah. And actually, Brock, when we first started dating, would, you know, he was like, well, I'm not really sure if I believe in the institution of marriage.
25:07 Speaker 00 Oh, he was one of those?
25:08 Michelle Obama? Yeah, and I was sort of like, really? You know, well, what's that for? And I didn't, you know, it wasn't consistent with, you know, who he was, but he would poke at that, right?
25:19 Speaker 00 Yeah.
25:19 Michelle Obama? But he was also the person who asked me out, who said, we should date. I was very hesitant about dating because we worked at the same law firm. I was a year, he's older than me, but I went to law school and was practicing. Like, he hates for me to say I was his mentor.
25:37 Speaker 00 I was gonna say, say it, you were his boss.
25:39 Michelle Obama? I wasn't his boss because I wasn't senior enough to give him assignments, but I was sort of helping him adjust. And I sort of thought, well, I shouldn't date the guy that I was assigned to help, right? I thought that'd be tacky, especially we were two of a few black people in the firm.
25:59 Speaker 00 Right.
25:59 Michelle Obama? We both went to Harvard. It just felt a little cliche.
26:02 Speaker 00 Yeah.
26:03 Michelle Obama? And I didn't want to be that associate, right?
26:05 Speaker 00 Right.
26:06 Michelle Obama? But he was like, who cares? We got to know each other for the first month of the summer. And he was like, you're cute, you're smart, you're funny. Let's go on a date, you know? I was like, no, we shouldn't go on a date. That doesn't seem right. But he was like-
26:23 Speaker 00 He knew what he wanted.
26:24 Michelle Obama? He knew what he wanted, right? And he wasn't worried about the job or appearances. He was like, this makes sense to me. And you don't get that a lot.
26:32 Speaker 00 That's romantic.
26:33 Michelle Obama? You know, or I know I didn't get that a lot from guys.
26:37 Speaker 00 You know, same.
26:38 Michelle Obama? I mean, you're guessing for the first few months. And I was like, well, why am I drawn to that and not drawn to the truth? Right? So I chose the truth with Barack. I chose to be with somebody who came to me on clear terms. And so as a result, that's how our relationship started. We were already friends. So we could have these conversations. And I knew he didn't mean the thing about marriage. But his proposal, which I didn't know was coming, goaded me into this argument about marriage. So Barack had studied and taken the bar.
27:21 Michelle Obama? And we had been dating for all through his law school year. So it was about two years. So he took me out to a nice dinner, our favorite fancy restaurant in Chicago, under the guise of celebrating that he finished the bar. Little did I know that he had asked my parents, had gotten a ring. And so we're sitting at dinner. I'm thinking that it's a regular date. Midway through the entree, he starts talking about not believing in marriage again. And I was like.
27:52 Speaker 00 Don't tell me that's how he went into his proposal. No.
27:56 Michelle Obama? So he was winding me up. And of course, I, you know, I was just not feeling it. So I just went off on him. And I was like, this isn't gonna last. And if you don't believe in marriage, don't waste my time. And, you know, and I don't understand, and I wouldn't have kids out of wedlock. You know, and we had had this conversation. But he was just winding me up, you know? And I think I was being wound up all through the entree.
28:20 Speaker 00 What a way to get to your heart.
28:22 Michelle Obama? Then, and he was, he was not arguing back. He was just sitting there with his finger on his temple, just letting me go. And then the waiter brought this tray with a silver tray and opened it up. And there was the ring. And I was like, what? You didn't just wind me up to, and he got down on one knee in the restaurant and asked me to marry him. So he loves to tell that story because he was like, that shut you up, didn't it?
28:52 Speaker 00 I love it. Let's give him a round of applause. You know, I love that so much. And I mean, so romantic. And the two of you are the, you guys are goals. You know that. Your marriage goals.
29:04 Michelle Obama? Well, that, but that's why I'm always like, we have trouble too.
29:07 Speaker 00 Yeah.
29:07 Michelle Obama? Because even when you have hashtag couples goals, marriage is hard.
29:12 Speaker 00 Yep.
29:13 Michelle Obama? And it takes work. And I love him dearly. And I want all couples to understand that, that marriage is work. And it's work every day. Being a parent is work.
29:24 Speaker 00 Yep.
29:24 Michelle Obama? As much as you want it.
29:26 Speaker 00 Yep.
29:26 Michelle Obama? You know, bringing children into the world, the ones you want it, you know, it'll be the hardest thing you will ever do because it's the most important thing that you will ever do. And I don't want anybody to be blinded by that. So that's why I talk honestly about not just the highs, but about the challenges.
29:45 Speaker 00 Yep.
29:45 Michelle Obama? Because I think people, young couples give up too quickly when things get hard.
29:50 Speaker 00 Yep.
29:51 Michelle Obama? And it's like, this is hard. This is a hard thing to do, melding two lives together, which is why you've got to be real clear in your choice.
30:00 Speaker 00 Yep.
30:01 Michelle Obama? You know?
30:01 Speaker 00 Because even when they're the right committed man and you're aligned and you're in love.
30:07 Michelle Obama? And all of it.
30:08 Speaker 00 It's still hard.
30:10 Michelle Obama? That's right.
30:10 Speaker 00 So why make it harder going into the relationship where you aren't on the same page about what you ultimately want?
30:16 Michelle Obama? That's exactly right.
30:16 Speaker 00 So I'm curious, I want to ask you because it sounds like you were the driver in getting the answers to those questions in the dating phase.
30:24 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm.
30:25 Speaker 00 What gave you the confidence, though, to really put that question to him and to be willing to walk away if he was not in alignment with you?
30:32 Michelle Obama? I think like you, it was the other frogs, other relationships, coming out going, why didn't I, why did I let that happen?
30:40 Speaker 00 Yeah.
30:40 Michelle Obama? Why didn't I say more? Why didn't I, why wasn't I clearer? That's why I believe in dating.
30:46 Speaker 00 Yeah.
30:46 Michelle Obama? Because you need. Practice, you know, you're gonna get some stuff wrong. You're gonna, you, you need to grow up just trying some things on, you know, and it, and, and be okay with things failing, be okay with getting your heart broken. Because you need to know that you can recover from that, too. So I think that it was practice made perfect. So I was a little more ready, a little more sure of myself. Didn't have all the conversations, so, you know, there's still things I look back on 30 years and I was like, mm, did I agree, did I agree to something in this marriage that I wouldn't have, when I was 30, that I've got to renegotiate? And the answer is yes. Because each decade, we are learning something different.
31:31 Michelle Obama? So you're never gonna get it perfect. But I think knowing that this was a serious relationship and that this, that Barack was a serious person, I felt he left space for the questions. He wasn't defensive about the questions. And maybe that's, that's another cue for folks like Alice. You know, you don't want to be in a relationship with somebody that you can't have really good, hard, honest conversations. You don't have to get married to the person. But if you're dating, sleeping with somebody, if you're wasting your time with them, or investing your time with them.
32:12 Speaker 00 She said wasting your time.
32:14 Michelle Obama? You know, then you should be with somebody that you can talk to. And if they're making you feel like you're intrusive or needy, that's a sign. I know that we lived together for a year before we got engaged. And I told Barack, I said, it makes economic sense for us to live together, but just know that this isn't a forever thing. I don't, I don't want this to slip into years and years of living together. You know, so it's like, if you, if we're moving in together, then the next phase has got to be, we're getting engaged and we're gonna get married.
32:51 Speaker 00 How did he respond to that?
32:52 Michelle Obama? He was like, yeah, makes sense, makes sense. Which is why goading me with that question was a little annoying on our engagement night, because I was like, dude.
33:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, we already covered this.
33:02 Michelle Obama? We covered this. But no, we were in alignment. And I knew that. And so, everything felt right. I felt safe with him. I felt like there wasn't anything that I couldn't talk to him about. And that's how you're supposed to feel.
33:18 Speaker 00 Yes.
33:19 Michelle Obama? And sometimes we have to ask ourselves as women and people, are we not asking the question because we don't really want to know the answer? We want to be in pretend land.
33:30 Speaker 00 Yeah.
33:31 Michelle Obama? So I won't bring it up because the status quo feels okay. It's comfortable, so I will pretend like he didn't just tell me he didn't want kids. Like you said, when they tell you who they are, believe them.
33:45 Speaker 00 The first time.
33:46 Michelle Obama? Yeah, and don't be afraid of the question. And I want young women in particular to practice this part of their voice in relationships. To just practice asking for what you want and being clear. But then you gotta be okay with not getting the answer that you want. And I'd rather practice that feeling, right?
34:11 Speaker 00 Yep.
34:11 Michelle Obama? You'll survive it.
34:13 Speaker 00 Yep.
34:13 Michelle Obama? No, it's okay to hear no. It's okay to hear, I don't love you like that. It's okay to hear, we don't believe in the same things, or I think you're cute, but I don't want to get married. Know it early.
34:25 Speaker 00 Yes.
34:26 Michelle Obama? Figure it out sooner. You know, press it and don't feel like it makes you look desperate. All it is, is you just want clarity.
34:35 Speaker 00 Yep.
34:36 Michelle Obama? It's okay to want clarity, and that's different from being desperate.
34:40 Speaker 00 Yes.
34:41 Michelle Obama? There's nothing wrong with clarity. Do not live your life in a fog. That's what I would tell Alice, you know? When you're 30 years old and you want things to happen, then don't waste your time with people and just ask the question.
34:55 Speaker 00 Yep.
34:55 Michelle Obama? It's like, who are you? What do you want? What do you want out of life? Why don't you want kids? Let's have those conversations sooner rather than later. Now, that doesn't mean having them on the first date.
35:06 Speaker 00 Right.
35:06 Michelle Obama? Right, you know, that might be a little too soon. But once you get to the point where you think you want to spend time with somebody, they should be able to handle these questions, I believe.
35:16 Speaker 00 Absolutely. One thing that we haven't touched on that I think is embedded in Alice's question is this idea that there's an expiration date on her value as a woman and as a prospective partner. She's 30.
35:32 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
35:33 Speaker 00 She's realizing, okay, I wasted six years with this one.
35:36 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
35:36 Speaker 00 And I think that comes with this pressure to close the deal.
35:40 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
35:40 Speaker 00 Because society has told us that there's an expiration date on our value and that at some point, men aren't going to want us and they're going to go for the 25-year-old girl when they're 50. And listen, that's a phenomenon. We can't ignore that.
35:54 Michelle Obama? That's right.
35:55 Speaker 00 But that doesn't have to define your value. And Alice has made the decision for herself that she wants to be a mother. So free yourselves to get what you really want in a life. And I truly believe that's true love.
36:09 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
36:10 Speaker 00 That is true love. That is setting someone free to live the life that they really, really want. There's no higher love than that. And just because it comes to an end naturally, doesn't mean that that time wasn't well-spent and that you didn't learn and grow during that time. And it doesn't mean that it's a failure.
36:29 Michelle Obama? And live, right? Don't wait on life to come to you.
36:34 Speaker 00 Yeah.
36:43 Craig Robinson? This episode of IMO is brought to you by Indeed. Finding the right job or candidate can be a game changer. I know that when it comes to finding talent, it's not about who you know or where you went to school. It's about the skills you have. And whether that's on the court or in a company, that's what should matter most because when someone is hired for what they have to offer, the world works better. Individual abilities are important when recruiting players for your team. You look for scoring, shooting, rebounding, defending, et cetera. As the world's largest job site with millions of job seekers looking for work as well as employers offering it, Indeed isn't just dedicated to matching people with any job.
37:27 Craig Robinson? It's about matching people with the right opportunities and challenging the status quo of hiring. It's about prioritizing skills and being transparent about what you'll be doing. What you'll be paid and what the workplace will be like. On this podcast, we're all about keeping things real and being honest. And that's also how Indeed views helping the world work better. Indeed is the place to find what you need. Visit indeed.com and start finding better work. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. The Cologuard test is a one-of-a-kind way to feel more in control of your colon cancer
38:12 Craig Robinson? screening through a prescription-based test with none of the prep that's required of a colonoscopy. When I was a coach, my players had a team of people helping them with their physical well-being. They had so many tools to make sure every member of the team was on top of their health and wellness. But what I want our listeners to know is that even if you eat well and have a healthy lifestyle, that does not mean you are low-risk for colon cancer. The Cologuard test is the only FDA-approved, non-invasive option that looks for both altered DNA and blood in your stool, which can indicate the presence of abnormal cells. The good news is that when caught at the early stages, colon cancer is survivable
38:57 Craig Robinson? in 90% of people, so screening and early detection are crucial. With zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door, we shouldn't let our health take a backseat. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Cologuard test. You can also request a Cologuard prescription today at cologuard.com/podcast. The Cologuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a Cologuard test if you have adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease, and certain
39:42 Craig Robinson? hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Cologuard test is Is not a replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. Cologuard is available by prescription only. I love this time of year, but hosting during the holidays can be a bit of a challenge. So Kelly and I have collected a few hacks to make it a little bit easier. One of our favorite moves is an extendable dining room table.
40:24 Craig Robinson? It's this great walnut color and it's mid-century modern, so it looks awesome in our space. And it even has extra storage in the legs. When we don't need the middle panels, we just slide them out and our space is back to how it was before. For all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high-quality, customer-trusted products for your home, so you can host and celebrate without the stress. Use filters, customer photos, and more than 20 million verified five-star reviews to confidently find the right fit for your home. When refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home.
41:08 Craig Robinson? That's W A Y F A I R dot com.
41:11 Speaker 04 Wayfair, every style, every home.
41:19 Michelle Obama? I would tell Alice, move on from this guy.
41:23 Speaker 00 Yeah.
41:24 Michelle Obama? And, and don't just jump into the next thing. Work on you.
41:30 Speaker 00 Yep.
41:30 Michelle Obama? Work on your dreams, your goals, your aspirations. Build your life.
41:36 Speaker 00 Yes.
41:36 Michelle Obama? Independently. Use this time to make sure you're whole.
41:41 Speaker 00 Yes.
41:42 Michelle Obama? You know, and understand yourself because that's, I think, why finding love later can be better because you know more about who you are.
41:53 Speaker 00 That part.
41:54 Michelle Obama? So at 30, Alice has got a lot of time to keep growing.
41:59 Speaker 00 Yeah.
42:00 Michelle Obama? And let love find you.
42:02 Speaker 00 Yeah.
42:03 Michelle Obama? As you grow. And if it doesn't, then you've just grown.
42:08 Speaker 00 Yeah.
42:08 Michelle Obama? You know, you're still at a good place.
42:10 Speaker 00 Yes.
42:11 Michelle Obama? You know, you might not have, love might not have found you, but you didn't stop your life waiting for it.
42:16 Speaker 00 Yep. I will tell you, my mom had said to me from the time I was a little girl, a healthy relationship takes two whole people. Who gotta be whole on their own. And that is something that was like etched into my brain so, so early on that when I finally was mature enough, after the delusion, I lived in the, one thing I want to admit to right here is that I did live in that delusion for a little bit.
42:42 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
42:42 Speaker 00 I heard the answer, but I was a little bit like, la la la la.
42:45 Michelle Obama? Yeah. We all have done that in our lives.
42:48 Speaker 00 So it's okay, Mrs. Obama, you're not judging me?
42:51 Michelle Obama? No, not at all.
42:51 Speaker 00 Okay.
42:52 Michelle Obama? Because I can, I can see those moments in myself where I was like, I'm gonna make him love me. And, you know, so we all go through that.
43:00 Speaker 00 Yeah.
43:01 Michelle Obama? That's why you keep moving through it.
43:02 Speaker 00 Yeah. But after that part, after the delusional chapter.
43:06 Michelle Obama? Yeah, right.
43:07 Speaker 00 Then I moved into this part where I really did fall in love with myself before I fell in love with Jonathan.
43:13 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
43:14 Speaker 00 In that in-between time. That in-between time is truly what I think set me up for a lifelong relationship. I think before that point, I would, I would fold into the relationship.
43:28 Michelle Obama? That part, yeah.
43:29 Speaker 00 You know, and I would become what was good for the relationship. But this time that I spent in between Mr. Big and my actual husband, I cut all my hair off. It was so cliche. I chopped it off. I decided I'm gonna live on my own for the first time. I'm gonna make dinner for myself every night. I signed up for a half marathon. I ran the half, the Brooklyn half.
43:54 Michelle Obama? Wow.
43:54 Speaker 00 And along that timeframe, Jonathan came around. And at that point, I was like you, I was like, I'm not really rushing into this. Cause I'm liking this. I'm doing me right now. And I'm tired of being in these, being a serial monogamous. And it's almost like I've had these many marriages.
44:12 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
44:12 Speaker 00 And I was like, I just wanna be, I wanna be married to me.
44:15 Michelle Obama? And Jonathan had to catch up with you.
44:17 Speaker 00 And you know who was waiting for me at the end of the finish line at that half marathon?
44:22 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
44:22 Speaker 00 With Gatorade and
44:24 Michelle Obama? Yeah, wow.
44:24 Speaker 00 And some oranges. It was Jonathan. And he waited for me and he said, don't worry, I'll be here. And it's that type of partner that's like so, that knows it's you. That will wait for you, that will show up for you, that feels like home. Like, that's the guy that you marry ultimately. So I want that, I want that for, I want that for Alice. I want that for her. It's okay, six years with someone, you're 30, that's fine.
44:51 Michelle Obama? That's okay.
44:51 Speaker 00 But like, what do you want out of life? Make space for that.
44:55 Michelle Obama? Alice is wondering whether there are men who change their minds. I mean, yeah, people change their minds in life, for sure, you know? I definitely know people who thought they'd never get married or thought they didn't wanna have kids. So it is possible. And if he's saying no, he can change his mind, but do you really wanna wait?
45:20 Speaker 00 Right, how long are you willing to wait?
45:22 Michelle Obama? Are you willing to wait to see if he would change his mind? I, I'm just afraid for her for what that question means. It's like she's wanting to wait, she's hoping. If she were my daughter, I would go, mm, mhm, really? Uh, why don't you, why don't you date? Why don't you just keep the door open? You know, have you thought about that? I'd probably ask a question like that.
45:49 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm.
45:50 Michelle Obama? So I don't know, what do you think?
45:52 Speaker 00 I, have I ever seen a man change his mind about having children? I don't think that I have.
46:01 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm.
46:04 Speaker 00 I don't think that I have. I wasn't willing to wait around and see. Let me put that in my own situation.
46:11 Michelle Obama? One of the things I say to people as they're thinking about picking a mate, you gotta think about like a partner is a member of your basketball team.
46:22 Speaker 00 Ooh, I like this.
46:23 Michelle Obama? It's like if you were picking players to play on a team, you wouldn't just pick a shooter. Everybody has to be able to do it all.
46:31 Speaker 00 Yep.
46:32 Michelle Obama? Each person in a couple has to be able and willing to do it all.
46:37 Speaker 00 Yep.
46:37 Michelle Obama? So you don't want to marry a man who's like, I don't cook. It's like, well, what happens if I can't cook?
46:45 Speaker 00 Right.
46:45 Michelle Obama? You know?
46:45 Speaker 00 How are we gonna survive?
46:46 Michelle Obama? Yeah, you just don't do laundry. Life is so unpredictable and complicated. And then add in kids, right? If you're married to a man that doesn't do house chores, and you've had given birth, and you've had a cesarean, and you can't be on your feet, or heaven forbid, you have a difficult pregnancy, and you come home and he can't do anything? He's never been grocery shopping, you know? Or if you're the woman and you can't balance the checkbook because you've left that to him? Life is too complicated for two partners not to be real equals in it, you know? Because you just don't know what's gonna come.
47:29 Speaker 00 Yep.
47:30 Michelle Obama? You can make decisions throughout the marriage of who's doing what, but everybody's gotta be able to do everything, especially when kids are involved.
47:40 Speaker 00 Amen.
47:41 Michelle Obama? And so that, you know, you gotta look for a whole person, and you've gotta be a whole person. You know? And I want men to hear this, and I want mothers raising men to hear this too. Teach these men how to be whole. You know? Do not come into a relationship talking about what you aren't gonna do, what you don't believe in, and men and women's roles. I mean, if it works out for you, great, but then don't let life happen to you.
48:11 Speaker 00 Right.
48:12 Michelle Obama? Because then what?
48:13 Speaker 00 Right.
48:13 Michelle Obama? You've never learned how to do anything other than the thing that a man is supposed to do? I wouldn't want that dude.
48:21 Speaker 00 I'm curious, with you have two daughters who get this, who've gotten this their whole lives. Like, how have you seen this advice play out in your in your child's relationships? And have you been able to kind of see the fruits of all of your wisdom?
48:41 Michelle Obama? There's, you know, I think like your mother, right? You don't know whether they're actually listening to you.
48:47 Speaker 00 We're listening. I want to tell you, we're listening.
48:50 Michelle Obama? I'm learning that now because they're now, they're 26 and 23, right? And this is the age where I can see, oh, you were listening.
48:59 Speaker 00 Yeah.
49:00 Michelle Obama? I lecture, I talk, we talk, we talk. That's all I've been doing with these girls, talking and talking honestly.
49:08 Speaker 00 Yeah.
49:09 Michelle Obama? Making sure that they feel like they can ask me anything, which means like your mother, you gotta learn to have that poker face. Because if you get, if you get too involved,
49:22 Michelle Obama? then they don't come back.
49:23 Speaker 00 Yeah.
49:23 Michelle Obama? So I spend a lot of time, especially when they went away to college and living on their own, conversations are this, really?
49:32 Michelle Obama? Whoa, uh, wow, tell me more, right? It's like, they're like cats. It's like, don't hold them too tight. Don't squeeze them because they'll never come back. I try not to be too judgmental, you know? I try not to be too heavy handed, but I, but I talk to them in the way that I'm talking to you. I share the mistakes that I made. I share the things that work in our marriage without getting them too involved, right? Just making sure they're seeing the good, the bad. They know that I'm human. They, they hear my stories so they feel like they can tell me theirs. And the real learning comes in these kind of conversations, right?
50:17 Michelle Obama? Choices that they're making so far are ones that I'm like, okay.
50:22 Speaker 00 Yeah.
50:22 Michelle Obama? All right, not, not always perfect, but watching them turn the corner and understanding their worth. So I just want my girls to. Be open and to use their voice in relationships. It is scary to let your kids make their own choices and to suffer their own consequences. You know?
50:45 Speaker 00 Especially when you know better.
50:46 Michelle Obama? Especially when you know better. Oh, my gosh. It's just like, I've done this. You know, I'm raising my hand in the room. It's like, I know the answer, you guys. Look at me, pick me.
50:57 Speaker 00 Right.
50:58 Michelle Obama? I can tell you this. I really do know. And, you know, they have to, they have to hit the wall.
51:04 Speaker 00 Ugh.
51:04 Michelle Obama? You know?
51:05 Speaker 00 I wouldn't be the mom that I am if I didn't have the kind of mom that I had. And it sounds like you guys are definitely playing from the same mom playbook. Um, which is beautiful.
51:13 Michelle Obama? You're doing good. Well, I think that if we could sum up our advice to Alice, we've had a full-throated conversation. I think, uh, what would you, if you had to give three pieces of advice that summed up what you think Alice should be thinking about? What would you, what would you tell her?
51:33 Speaker 00 Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a page out of your book and I'm gonna use an analogy that I just read yesterday that was about writing a book.
51:42 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm.
51:42 Speaker 00 So basically, making hard decisions about your life is, is kinda like driving a car in the dark with headlights on. You can only see, but so far in front of you. Right? Like, the light only shines just so much in front of you. And you can make the whole trip by just making the best decisions based on what you can see right in front of you. You don't need to be able to see the whole road, um, even when the rest is dark. You can see this much. And so I would say, make the best decision for your life based on what you can see from where you're sitting right now.
52:23 Speaker 00 And if you can see that this man doesn't want what you want in the long run.
52:28 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
52:30 Speaker 00 It's okay to pivot. And I think your life is going to be full of beautiful pivots.
52:37 Michelle Obama? Hmm.
52:38 Speaker 00 You don't have to stay on the road that you're on just because you traveled it this far. You can make a left turn and you don't have to be a ride or die. You don't gotta die, okay? Just to ride, you can say, I've, I've.
52:51 Michelle Obama? I wanna live. I don't wanna ride and die.
52:53 Speaker 00 I don't wanna die.
52:54 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
52:55 Speaker 00 So.
52:55 Michelle Obama? What, what, what's the point of being a ride or die?
52:57 Speaker 00 What is the point? Cause I don't, I don't actually wanna die. So the ride has been nice.
53:03 Michelle Obama? Right.
53:03 Speaker 00 To this point, sir.
53:04 Michelle Obama? I'm getting off, right?
53:06 Speaker 00 And this is where you can let yourself out.
53:08 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
53:09 Speaker 00 And I'm going that way.
53:10 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
53:10 Speaker 00 And I think just allow yourself, and I know it's so scary when you can't see what's ahead.
53:15 Michelle Obama? Hmm.
53:15 Speaker 00 And you're like, does this mean I'm gonna be alone forever? Will I ever find somebody that loves me this much? We've invested so much time, like I overstand all of that. Cause I have lived it multiple times.
53:26 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
53:26 Speaker 00 But you gotta just keep making the best decisions based on what's right in front of you. And trust that what is in the dark will come to the light. And it could be even more beautiful than you could ever imagine. So that would be my closing statement.
53:39 Michelle Obama? I, I love that. And your mom is gonna hear this podcast conversation and you know what she's gonna say.
53:47 Speaker 00 What is she gonna, she gonna say, oh, Lord.
53:49 Michelle Obama? No.
53:49 Speaker 00 You told your business to the whole world and to Mrs. Obama.
53:52 Michelle Obama? She is gonna say, wow, you know? I knew, I knew Laney had it in her, you know? She was listening all this time, you know? And that's the, the beauty of parenthood. That's some of the proudest moments you'll have as a parent.
54:08 Speaker 00 Hmm.
54:08 Michelle Obama? Um, and for Alice, if, if motherhood is, is something that she wants, then I wouldn't give it up. I, I wouldn't give up that, that, that dream. Um, not at 30, you know? I would, I, I want Alice to know she's young. There is time. People are becoming mothers later in life. I would encourage her to look at freezing her eggs. Um, just give herself some time, but do not settle.
54:39 Michelle Obama? Do not try to force somebody into a life that isn't for them. Because marriage and family is hard enough. So you want to do it with somebody who wants what you want as much as you want it.
54:52 Speaker 00 Amen.
54:52 Michelle Obama? And you shouldn't have to talk somebody into your dream. Ask for what you want. Find out the information you need. Don't allow game playing to to take over the dynamic of the relationship, especially as we get older. We just don't have, ain't nobody got time for that.
55:10 Speaker 00 Ain't nobody got time for that.
55:11 Michelle Obama? So find out what you need to know. And if you're with the right person, those questions won't be intimidating. And if they are, that's a sign that that person's not for you. If they can't answer some basic questions, if you can't have some good conversations about life and expectations, then that's a cue that just date them. Don't marry them.
55:31 Speaker 00 Yeah.
55:31 Michelle Obama? You know? But Elaine, thank you so much for, this was, this filled me up. I'm really proud of the the woman that you have become. So thank you for taking the time.
55:43 Speaker 00 Ah, thank you for the joy of being able to share some of these stories with you. And yeah, I just feel so blessed by this conversation. My heart is so full. You got me out here about to cry. I don't know if it's the hormones.
55:57 Speaker 00 But thank you. This was such a beautiful conversation.
55:59 Michelle Obama? Well, I'd love to get you back.
56:00 Speaker 00 Thank you so much.
56:23 Craig Robinson? This episode is brought to you by Cologuard. I knew that I shouldn't delay screening for colon cancer, and Cologuard has made that process 1 million times easier for all of us. I just answered a few questions about my age and medical history. And once their licensed clinician determined I was eligible, they issued the prescription and the Cologuard Plus kit was sent right to my home. No doctor's office visit necessary. For me, there was just a Immediate relief in getting it done. It cost me $0 with my insurance. It took me truly 15 minutes and now I can rest easier knowing I screened properly. Plus, if you get a negative result, you generally don't need a repeat Cologuard test for three years.
57:07 Craig Robinson? If you're 45 or older and at average risk, it's time to screen for colon cancer, even if you feel perfectly healthy. And Cologuard Plus gives you an option you can use right at home. Talk to your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with Cologuard or request it online today at Cologuard.com where they have an easy telehealth option. Don't wait. Cologuard products are intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use if you have had a personal history of colorectal cancer or polyps, have inflammatory bowel disease, a family history of colorectal cancer, or certain hereditary syndromes, or a positive result from another colon cancer screening method within that test-recommended screening interval. Cologuard results should be interpreted with caution as false positives and false negatives do occur. Available by prescription only.
Previous Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty Next Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross Page updated November 3, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
