Creating a Culture Where People Love Coming to Work, with Brandon Matthews

In this podcast episode, Dr. Jonathan H. Westover talks with Brandon Matthews about creating a culture where people love coming to work! Brandon Matthews is helping organizations build workplace cultures where people feel valued, inspired, and fully engaged. He has worked with global brands including Apple, Whirlpool, and AT&T, as well as small organizations helping people love the work they do, where they do it, and who they do it with. Brandon is also the host of The Mind Your Business Podcast. He is known for his practical, engaging, and humor-driven delivery style.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  Welcome to the HCI family of podcasts, where your source for personal, professional, and organizational growth and development. We share our own original research, explore industry trends, and interview executives and thought leaders from across the globe. Join us for practitioner-oriented content around all things leadership, HR, talent management, organizational development, and change management. Maximize your personal and organizational potential with the HCI family of podcasts.

• 0:35Speaker 00

  Brandon Matthews, welcome to the conversation today.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Hey, thank you so much. It's such an honor to be with you today.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  It is a pleasure to be with you. You're joining us from Alabama. I'm south of Salt Lake City in Utah. And today, we are going to be talking about creating a really great place where people love coming to work, having that awesome culture where people wake up in the morning, they're just excited to roll out of bed, they're excited to really just get up and get going, especially like right off the bat, first thing on a Monday morning. People so often have the Sunday scaries, they just dread getting back into the grind of the week. And how do we, how do we short circuit that kind of mentality where people instead of having the Sunday scaries, they're actually like really excited and looking

• 1:22Speaker 00

  forward to actually going back to work? That's, that's kind of a hard sell when people are enjoying their weekend, they're enjoying time with their family, with their loved ones, to actually move the needle towards people actually really looking forward to work. That's maybe, that may seem like almost impossible to do, yet there are organizations that actually really do that. And there are people that actually really do love getting back to work on Monday, as much as they love their family. They really do love getting back to work on a Monday. So like, how do you build that culture? How do you create an environment where that is what people can't wait to accomplish, like to experience? So that's what we're going to be exploring together today. As we get started, I wanted

• 2:07Speaker 00

  to share Brandon's bio with everybody. Brandon Matthews is helping organizations build workplace cultures where people feel valued, inspired, and fully engaged. He has worked with global brands, including Apple, Whirlwind, and AT&T, as well as small organizations, helping people love the work they do, where they do it, and who they do it with. Brandon is also the host of the Mind Your Business podcast. He is known for his practical, engaging, and humor-driven delivery style. And Brandon, again, it's just such a pleasure to be with you. Anything you would like to highlight by way of your own background or personal context before we dive on in?

• 2:43Speaker 01

  No, you know, really, what you asked is the, is the prime question. And I know there are so many people right now that are thinking, it's impossible. There's no reason to even have this conversation. We know it's not possible. But this is, I'm so committed to it, John, that this is what I've, I've committed my work to do. It really is in what you said. It's not just a bio tagline. It is helping people love the work they do, where they do it, and who they do it with. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation with you, as we sort of pull back the curtain just a little bit on some very practical things that I would hope people could walk away from our conversation today, and start implementing this in their organization, their leadership tomorrow.

• 3:21Speaker 00

  Awesome. And maybe let's start with like, some of those things that just cause people to dread their jobs. We've all experienced them. I assume most people have had those jobs they hate going to, they dread, they have the Sunday scaries, maybe they have that boss that they try to avoid whenever possible, or that, that team member that they just don't want to have to work on a project with, or whatever. But when, you know, when you're talking with clients, when you're, you know, talking with, with people on your podcast, like, what are some of those things that, that tend to get highlighted the most?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's, it's the very common things. And I think that's really where we miss it. We miss it at the common list of complaints. So, you know, people talk about the long hours, they're being overworked, they're being, they're not paid enough, the perks aren't there, they're not finding development, you know, they're not being invested in, their boss is a jerk, you know, all of these things that you hear people talk about. But really, what I think it comes down to at the foundational level is that people just don't feel valued. You know, when you, when you were young, you had a dream about your career, your job, what it was going to be. And there are many people who invested a lot of money in their education, they invested a lot of time, they're still paying for those

• 4:45Speaker 01

  degrees to get the, to earn all the opportunities that they have today. Some people are sitting in the positions that they dreamed of five years ago, and they're miserable. And so it's not that the job, or it's not that the position has let them down, it's that the culture that's around them, I think, is what's let them down. So when you hear all of these lists of things that people complain about the most, what I have found in more time that I spend just with people, is that they just don't feel valued as a person. They don't feel respected. They don't feel like they matter. They don't feel like what they do is making a difference. So when you have that at the very core of your, of

• 5:27Speaker 01

  your life, when you walk into somewhere on Monday, already feeling defeated, devalued as a person, within all of these other factors, they're surface level, they matter, it's not to minimize those. But really, what it says is every time you have to work late without any recognition, every time you're expected to do more with less pay, what it's saying is, is it's proof that I, it's validating the feeling that I have that I don't matter, and that I'm not valued in this organization. So it begins to compound into a person just checks out, you know, the quiet quitting, or they start job hopping every few years. And then I think people just live this cycle.

• 6:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. And that not feeling valued really does manifest in so many different ways. And, and it can be very different for different folks, right? And that's something that I think is really important for, for managers, supervisors, for anyone who's listening, who's part of our audience today. Like, it's, it's, it's easy for us to say, you know, you want help to help people feel valued. And when people don't feel valued, they don't feel excited to go to work. And then we start to jump to, okay, how do we make people feel valued? And we can list off some things. The reality is, people feel valued in different ways. For some people, feeling valued really is about the paycheck, right? For some people,

• 6:46Speaker 00

  feeling valued is about public praise. For some people, feeling valued is about opportunity for promotion, or opportunity to work on the coolest projects, or just feeling challenged at work, or like, there's so many different things, right? And it's different for different people. And so, a big part of just like, helping your people to feel valued, is to just like, know your people. You just have to like, know them, and know what drives them, and what excites them to show up to work and to do their work. And, and there's no real substitute for that, I guess, is what I'm suggesting, because one size doesn't

• 7:24Speaker 00

  fit all. So, so, you know, like, an HR department can come up with the coolest, you know, culture engagement, you know, appreciation program, that may be super cool. Like, it may be something that is super well-designed, but then you roll it out, and it doesn't have the impact, you know, that they thought it was going to have. Why? Because only a subset of people are going to be impacted by it. Like, because not everyone cares this, you know, about that thing, whatever the thing is. So, 100% to what you just said, like, people need to feel valued. But just recognize, people feel valued in different ways.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, John, I've found that a lot of people are a lot more gracious, they are a lot more forgiving with their leadership, with their organization where they are, when they know that at least the leadership had the best intentions.

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  They're trying.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  That they did, they are trying, you know? And, you know, there's even people, you know, a lot of the statistics out there, and there's so many, that say that many people would work for less money in a place where they felt passion, or that they made a difference, or that they were valued. And so I just encourage, you know, people to slow down just a little bit, and treat people, the golden rule, treat people the way that you want to be treated. And a lot of times in these, in these environments, you know, managers are overworked, you know, they've got a lot on their plate, they're trying to keep the department staff, they're trying to keep everybody doing what they need to do. So they don't have a lot of time to sit and have these conversations. But what I encourage them to do is just, in the

• 9:01Speaker 01

  moments that they have, is to pause briefly, look at them in the eye, their team, whoever they're leading, and just ask them how their family's doing. You know, hey, how was the weekend? And you don't have to carry on a 15-minute conversation. I have a lot of pushback from leaders that go, we don't have time to do that where I am. We've got work to do. But you know, just a few moments of just genuine connection, a little humanity in the office, that's so noticed to someone and they will give you a lot more grace. They will be a lot more patient with you if they just know that you care. It's not hard. You know, you don't have to develop some big HR program. And if you can do that, that's great. But a lot of people don't have the staffing or the finance resource to do it. But just

• 9:46Speaker 01

  the humanity portion goes a long way.

• 9:49Speaker 00

  100%, 100%. It's, it's, it's doing the little things consistently over time that show you genuinely care, that they genuinely matter to you, that you genuinely value them, right? And, and I'll also say to anyone who says, I don't have time to like have those, those short little conversations, there's too much work to do. When, when you have people that feel valued, their discretionary effort goes up quite a bit. So the difference between someone who shows up, clocks in, clocks out, kind of does the bare minimum, does enough to, you know, to be present and not get fired, right? The difference between that employee and the one who like shows up excited, pumped up, ready to go, like puts

• 10:33Speaker 00

  in their extra discretionary effort and, and just is really pumped up and, and really maximizes their ability for the team and for the work, like in, in what they produce and their output. Like the difference is so dramatic. Like it's worth putting in that 10 minutes or that whatever, that amount of time. And so does it take a little bit of upfront investment? 100%. But ultimately, do you have the time? I don't think you don't have the time. Like i- if you don't put in the time, you're costing yourself so much productivity, you know, loss in the long term. So it's kind of just about like short termism versus, you know, long-term, you know, uh, strategy in terms of how you look

• 11:15Speaker 00

  at your team. And I know in the moment, you know, you're putting out fires, you're trying to just get stuff done. I know, I know, I know it's hard, you know, but if, if you can just remind yourself, like, start small, start small and then slowly build it up as you, as you have a team that slowly starts to feel valued and they start to turn that corner of like, instead of wasting a lot of time looking for other jobs while they're at work, instead of, you know, doing the bare minimum to just get by, now they're actually starting to proactively do stuff and, and to like be more productive. All of a sudden, you're putting out less fires. All of a sudden, you're having to manage workplace conflicts, you know, less. All of a sudden, you know, your job eases up,

• 11:59Speaker 00

  you know, you have more time to spend on more of those relationship things and strategic things. And now, right? Now you start to, you have the flywheel humming, right? And now you, you, you're able to do more of that kind of stuff. Uh, and it's, it's like this, this, uh, you know, upward, you know, spinning spiral of like productivity and, and culture and like all these kinds of things. Now, maybe that sounds like overly like optimistic and, and utopian. Um, like obviously workplaces aren't always that perfect and things don't always work out that, um, that perfectly. But, but really it, it can, it can, and it, and it really can improve that much. Like when you invest in it.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  It's real. You know, I have an opportunity to see a lot of different organizations from an aerial view and it is tangible. There is a tangible difference when you walk into an environment, when you can tell the organizations that put emphasis on what we're talking about and those who downplay is significance. It is a tangible feeling, literally walking into, uh, these organizations. You can see it on people's faces. You can hear it in the way that they talk to you, the way that they greet you, the way they look at you. Some organizations are like just lifeless souls walking through a building and then some people are, good morning, it's good to see you. How are you doing? I mean, it's

• 13:21Speaker 01

  just a tangible difference. And so I really encourage three things for leaders to focus on that I think helps to set the foundation of this type of culture. And one is just clarity. I think when you're clear on what you want everyone to feel, what you want everyone to do, how you want everyone to speak, how you want them to act, conduct themselves, conduct their business, represent your brand, uh, you're giving people, you're, you're giving them a roadmap of how we're going to conduct ourselves in this organization. And so when you're very clear about these things, everyone aligns based on the vision that you've set. So you have a lot of clarity of, of the purpose that you're doing in

• 14:06Speaker 01

  your job, the, the work that you're doing, making a difference in somebody's life. Um, so I think being very clear about what's important to you really matters. And then I think secondly is working on that culture. Um, when you set those, those road, that roadmap of here's who we are and here's what we do. Well, essentially what you've done at that point is you have now created a culture that you want everyone to experience. And what I have found is that, uh, your culture is either going to develop and grow and reproduce what it is right here today. So if you have a really healthy culture, unhealthy people will not make it. It will choke them out. They, they won't stay. They, these people

• 14:49Speaker 01

  are too happy. These people, you know, they just don't get any, uh, satisfaction of what they're looking for to complain and gripe. And so it's going to, it's going to weed them out. But the same is true about an unhealthy culture. When you have someone come in who has pride in their work, a great work ethic, wants to really do something and make a difference and, and they are met with opposition with that expectation, they're not going to stay. They're going to find somewhere better. So the clarity and then creating that culture around that clarity. And then the third component, you said it earlier, John, was just consistent. Consistency. Continue to do every day, even the little things that reinforce those values, the clarity of what you said, and that continues to condition

• 15:34Speaker 01

  that culture to what matters so that everything is healthy. And it takes time, but you said it the best. It's, it's playing the long game. It's not just thinking about right here in this moment, but the leader to step back and say, I'm a leader. I lead the way. So many leaders say, well, that's not my job. You know, the, the young workers coming in, there's a lot of complaints about work ethic and communication and they go, I'm not a babysitter. I'm not their parent. I'm their boss. They're either going to do it or they're gone. Well, we can say that all we want, but that's not going to change the long game. You know, right now they may have options, but this is the workforce that's coming after

• 16:15Speaker 01

  us. So they're going to be the only option soon. So a leader has to lead. You have to set the tone. So be clear about what your workplace is going to be. Set that culture and then be consistent in those things. And I do think it's achievable to get John to what you're talking about.

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  Yeah, yeah. I often tell people, you know, it's, it's extremely hard to do, but it's not rocket science. So it's not, it's not complicated.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  It's, it's hard because we're human.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 16:45Speaker 00

  And it's, it's hard to be consistent. So that's what, that's why it's hard. It's not hard because we don't know how to do it. Like the, the, the principles are pretty simple. We just have to be committed and we have to do it consistently.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  But if you remember that everything is about people.

• 17:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Think about it. People develop the products, people make the products, people sell the product, people service the product. Everything that is our bottom line, the profits that everyone is looking for, all of that is produced and is because of people. So people are our greatest asset. So you can't make a greater investment in a system, a process, a policy or anything else. We're not competing on prices and packaging of products. We are competing on people. And I think the leaders and the organizations who recognize that now, those are the ones that are going to be successful. AI is not going to fix it all. You know, it can automate and it can, it can streamline some of the things that

• 17:44Speaker 01

  we do, but it's the very human centered organizations that value and connect people. I think those are the ones that are going to stand out and those are the ones that are going to succeed.

• 17:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Again, short termism, you know, in, in the, the era of AI disruption, you know, AI related layoffs and AI optimization, et cetera, et cetera. Like I get it, short term kind of focus. Um, and the labor market, the way it is right now, it's a little bit crazy. Organizations feel like they can kind of treat employees any way they want. Um, that's going to come back to bite you though. Like you can't, like business is about relationships and you, you can do that now, but it's, it is going to have long-term, long-term implications for you.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:36Speaker 00

  Um, so we just, one, we need to treat people better because we're humans and like we should treat people better. Uh, but two, like there's actually a strong business case for just like being better humans to each other too. Like we treat people better. Uh, we remember simple principles of reciprocity and like making sure that, you know, how we treat people now is going to come back, you know, to us in the future. Um, future deals, future, you know, uh, consumer commitment, employer, employee commitment and loyalty, et cetera, et cetera. Like all of that, there's just so much research on it. And, and so there's so much short termism right now, um, that I, I think, you know, we, we've,

• 19:19Speaker 00

  we've, we've jumped the shark, you know, and we've lost the, the big picture on a lot of this stuff. And so we can do better, you know, as, as leaders. Um, and it, it usually this stuff doesn't cost us anything either. Like creating that good dynamic culture where people just love coming to work. Like you said, a lot of times people are willing to take lower pay. A lot of times they're, they're willing to sacrifice a lot of the amenities, the things that cost more, um, just to work for a great boss, just to work for a good, with a good team, you know? So.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  You know, I think it takes, a leader really needs to be intentional about spotting those people. Because I, I think a lot of people have those individuals on their team. They just don't slow down enough to invest in them and to see it and, and could really pull that out of them. Because one good person can change the entirety of a culture inside of an organization. They can set the tone, their attitude, their outlook, their service. Um, it, it can change the way somebody sees about a brand and it doesn't take much to do. It doesn't even have to be a ploy that's got any quote given leadership. You know, they're, they're just leaders within themselves. I had an experience, John, recently I was shopping in a retail store.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  And I was shopping for some, a picture frame and a specific size. And this young girl in this store, she took me to every shelf for, and looked at every picture frame. And she wanted to help me find the right thing. Well, they didn't have it in the store. And she said, we'll be getting a shipment in. And I said, well, when? And she said, well, I don't know when they come in. She said, but let me check something. She said, we have another location and it's right by my house. And she said, here's what I'll do. She said, I'll go by there in the morning on my way to work here and I'll get those frames for you and I will bring those frames here. And I was, John, I was shocked. I've never had someone, and this was just a sweet, you know, young girl in the, in the frames department.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  I have no loyalty to these stores at all. But when she said that, I just stopped and I said, I have never had someone say, be so kind and have such customer service skills. I said, I can go get the frames. I don't need you to do that, but thank you. I said, but I would love to speak to your manager. And her eyes got big. And so we got her manager and I just said, listen, I need you to know what she just did, what she offered after searching this entire store for me to make sure I had the right thing that I needed. And that one action, that one girl, she should be running that organization today. She should be the heart of their culture.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  And it shifted my entire thought about the entire company, that brand, and certainly about that location, and more importantly, about that young lady. And if she keeps that up and, and, and holds those values, there's nothing that she won't be able to do because she's going to stand out in this market that we have today. So that's what I'm saying in, in, in agreement with you. Those leaders have to spot these people that are, that are on their teams. And that's going to elevate internal, everyone that's on the team, everybody that's working around them. Internally, it's going to make you better and externally in all the customers that you're reaching. And it's that simple. Build that culture and set that tone.

• 22:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I love it. Such a great example, such a great story. People who go above and beyond so often, especially in like retail or food services or whatever, like these are not the types of jobs, usually low paying, no good benefits, they're part-time, right? People usually aren't treated particularly well in these types of jobs.

• 23:06Speaker 00

  Like most of the time, like we go to these types of organizations to buy something, a lot of these employees, you know, you can tell they don't want to be there, right?

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  And so you don't get the best service and I can't really blame them because you know they're not getting paid well and they're probably not getting treated well.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 23:24Speaker 00

  Um, and so it really does stand out when you get that kind of exceptional service from somebody. Imagine if that could be replicated across a store like that. All of a sudden, like it, you, you, you, you get the brand loyalty, you get

• 23:40Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 23:40Speaker 00

  The customer loyalty, like all of a sudden people are going to come back. Uh, and it, it's a game changer. So like it, it totally becomes something that an organization of, you know, can see this is worth investing in. Like this is worth, you know, highlighting, this is worth, you know, trying to replicate, you know, like we have more and more of these types of amazing people who go above and beyond and don't just like clock in and do the bare minimum and then clock out. What a great example, what a great story. Well, Brandon, this has just been a great conversation. I know the time, I need to let you go here in just a minute. As we wrap things up, I wanted to give you a chance to share with the audience how they can connect with you, find out more about your work, your team, uh, and then give us the final word for today.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, John, thank you again for letting me be a part of, of what you're doing. And I appreciate, uh, that you're taking your platform and you're helping shape and make leaders better and organizations better because we need it. And so I'm playing my part in that. I really am passionate about helping people get up on Monday and go to an environment where they love what they do, because I firmly believe people are making a difference in whatever job you have, you're making a difference. You're making the world better and you're making people around you better. So I would love for you to visit me at brandonmathews.com. If you lead an organization, I love to serve you through keynotes, through trainings, helping equip your team, helping shape your culture, just making your workplace better. So you can find out more about that at brandonmathews.com.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  And then of course, check out the Mind Your Business podcast with Brandon Matthews. Episodes drop, uh, twice a month. And we just talk about all of these little leadership nuggets and these values that we can put into our organization to make us better. So, um, so I would encourage everybody to go and live life on purpose. In other words, be intentional about what you're doing, make a difference where you are so that your life is better, the place you work is better, the people you employ are better, and the people that you serve are better.

• 25:37Speaker 00

  I love it. Well said. Thank you so much, Brandon. It's just been a real pleasure. I encourage the audience to reach out, get connected, find out more about what Brandon can do for you, check out the podcast, all the many great things he's doing. And as always, I hope everyone can stay healthy and safe, that you can find meaning and purpose at work each and every day. And I hope you all have a great week.

• 26:00Speaker 00

  Thanks for joining us for this episode of the podcast. We hope you stay healthy and safe and please join us again soon.