Jobs Report: As Hiring Slows, America Works CEO Explains Impact on Vulnerable Job Seekers, with Dr. Lee Bowes

In this podcast episode, Dr. Jonathan H. Westover talks with Dr. Lee Bowes about the jobs report and slowing hiring. Dr. Lee Bowes is the Chief Executive Officer of America Works, a private workforce development organization founded in 1984. She joined the company in 1987 and co-developed the "Work First" theory, which emphasizes private-sector employment as the primary path out of poverty. Founded in 1984, America Works is a national workforce development organization committed to delivering real jobs, real support, and real results. With more than 30 million clients serving across 50+ states, America Works helps job seekers overcome employment barriers through rapid placement, individualized support, and employer partnerships. The organization places clients on average in about seven weeks and maintains a retention rate of more than 70%, reflecting its performance-based approach to workforce success. Learn more at americaworks.com/about.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  Welcome to the HCI family of podcasts, where your source for personal, professional, and organizational growth and development. We share our own original research, explore industry trends, and interview executives and thought leaders from across the globe. Join us for practitioner-oriented content around all things leadership, HR, talent management, organizational development, and change management. Maximize your personal and organizational potential with the HCI family of podcasts.

• 0:35Speaker 00

  Dr. Lee Bowes, welcome to the conversation today.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  Welcome. Thank you.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  It is a pleasure to be with you. You're joining us from Connecticut. I'm south of Salt Lake City in Utah. Today, we're going to be talking about the latest jobs data, recent jobs reports, and slowing in hiring, and really how that's impacting American workers, particularly the more vulnerable job seekers and more vulnerable populations. Dr. Bowes has a lot of expertise in this area and is Chief Executive Officer of American Works, which is a private workforce development organization founded in 1984. So I think this will just be a really fascinating conversation, really timely and important topic, and one, I think, that's on the forefront of a lot of people's minds, certainly those looking

• 1:25Speaker 00

  for jobs. But I think all of us, because so many of us are impacted and touched by this, if we're not currently looking, we most certainly know of and have friends and family members who are looking. And yeah, it's a challenging time, I think, for everyone, and this is a public policy issue and social issue that I think is not going away, that we're going to have to figure out how to address. And it's going to be a long, hard slog, I think, to be able to address this in a meaningful, sustainable way. As we get started, I just wanted to share just a little bit more about Lee and give her a chance

• 2:06Speaker 00

  to share a little bit about herself. As I mentioned, she is CEO of America Works and joined the company in 1987 and co-developed the Workforce Theory, which emphasizes private sector employment as the primary path out of poverty. Founded in 1984, American Works or America Works is a national workforce development organization committed to delivering real jobs, real support, and real results. Dr. Lee, anything you would like to share with the audience by way of your own personal background or context before we dive on in?

• 2:42Speaker 01

  Sure. I mean, I have been interested in doing this for years when I was very young. We called my parents culture vultures because they would make sure we spent our weekends going to museums and doing worthwhile things, you know, going to concerts in the evening that were classical, et cetera. And we used to go a lot to the Metropolitan Museum in New York. And my father would always take this trip into Harlem. And I remember saying to him, why are all these men standing around in the middle of the day? Because it was, you know, Friday or Saturday, or in the summer, any of the days. And he told me that this

• 3:24Speaker 01

  is unemployment. This is what happens when we have racism and discrimination. These are people who don't have opportunities. And it resonated so much with me that I knew from a very young age that I wanted to somehow help in that way. I knew I wanted to set up an organization that could help low-income people. And I really had that opportunity right from, I went to graduate school at Columbia University before I did my PhD. I always worked full-time. School was part-time for me. And because I didn't, we didn't have all the money in the world, like I said, they lived on the theory that somehow God was going to provide everything we needed. I recognize that wasn't fully true. So I

• 4:09Speaker 01

  ended up meeting my mentor at Columbia. And he used to say, all this money is being spent on social policy programs. We're giving handouts money. We're giving counseling, counseling, counseling. We set up, you know, eliminating barriers to various things. But if we made work the central social policy, really, none of the rest of it would be necessary. And we should think about work and build all of the supports someone needs in order to go to work, which so struck me because the minute I could work, I started working. I probably will say I learned more in the workplace, even, you know, being a waitress

• 4:50Speaker 01

  and then becoming manager of the restaurant before I was out of college. I just knew the value and what it did for me in terms of confidence, but also taught me how to manage, how to, you know, multitask, which is also necessary. And I was really wedded to the idea that we had to do it. And we couldn't do it fully in the public sector. I had run lots of programs where they would put people into training that was geared to get them a job, say, being part of a cleanup or janitorial crew. The jobs just were not volume open in the public sector. And where they were growing was always the private

• 5:30Speaker 01

  sector. So I really molded my thinking about it and how we even run the business today. We're in 21 different states around the country. I have what is close to 400 staff. We're expanding, in particular in Wisconsin this year. And we just started in Washington State. So we're always looking for new areas where people are also thinking about employment. And the one other thing I would say is, you know, if unemployment is very high, which is interesting right now because it doesn't look that high. It's much higher than we think. We

• 6:07Speaker 00

  I mean, let's acknowledge for just a moment that issue. Because for one, yes, it is actually, even the actual number that gets reported, which is artificially lower than it is, right? It's still, that number's high, higher than it should be and higher than it has been in a long time. But it's artificially low. And it's artificially low because we have so many people that have given up, that have left, right, that have left even trying, looking for work. So they're not counted in the number. We have so many people underemployed that have a job, but they're not fully gainfully employed. So they're counted as employed,

• 6:49Speaker 00

  but they're not really truly employed the way they should be. The number is not really telling us what it should be. And that's a real problem. So many people look at, you know, jobs reports, and they're largely misleading. We'll get more into that in a little bit. But anyway, sorry, I just wanted to mention that.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  No, John, you actually touched on something. Most people don't realize that the unemployment rate does not include people who are not actively looking. I mean, so they, you know, say, well, look at it's pretty good. They start arguing with their family members who aren't working. But you and I know, you just articulated it, that the data isn't truthful about how many people are really out there needing a job. So, yes.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  The more people who get discouraged and stop looking, they just fall off. And then all of a sudden, I mean, which is kind of bizarre when you think about it, right? Those people absolutely should be counted. That would be a much truer picture, but they're not, right?

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Right. That's true. And we all see them, examples in our own families and in our communities. But I think we're, we, you and I, John, are seeing it more and more for a real pattern of growth. Older people who should be in the workforce, men 25 to 55, they've opted out. And now we have our young people who we will see, as the resumes get produced, jump around every six months. You know, it used to be, you'd expect to see longevity before somebody leaves a job. And that's no longer true. And there are a whole host of reasons for it. But yes, this is the new dawn of a whole new era that we're facing as a country.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. And it really is heartbreaking when I see, you know, I have people in my life who you they've given up looking, you know, in some cases, it's age discrimination. And, you know, so they're a little bit older and they've, you know, they've just kind of thrown their hands in the air because they can't even get past the ATS. You know, they they submit job applications into the ether that then get screened. You know, by some AI and they just don't even make it past initial screenings despite decades of experience and judgment and and, you know, it's it's it's blatant age discrimination just baked into these systems. And and they don't know what to do.

• 9:21Speaker 00

  You know, I have I have actually, so I sing in a community choir and last night I was at choir practice and and one of my friends in the choir, I just feel so bad for him. He's been looking for two years. He actually still is counted in the unemployment number. He's actively looking. He has been actively looking, but he has some health challenges and, you know, that has impacted his ability to work. And, yeah, I mean, he's been looking for two years and it's it's just heartbreaking. He can work, but people, you know, aren't willing to to to take a bet on him, you know? And I don't know, it's it's heartbreaking when you see people who are are willing,

• 10:04Speaker 00

  whether it's age, disability, or a thousand other things. Reasons why people may not be able to get the job that they're willing to do, the, you know, the work that they're willing to do. And so so often, you know, your your dad, what a great lesson, you know, when your dad pointed out saying this is racism. I'm so glad that that's how he framed it at the time, rather than what so many other people, the lesson so many other people get taught when they're children and their parents may say, you know, they're lazy, they don't want to work, you know?

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:36Speaker 00

  Like, that that is how a whole different half of the country get taught. And and rather than being taught about systemic racism and being taught about barriers and disproportionate, you know, challenges that different populations face and and privilege and all these different things that that are realities for so many different people. You know, a lot of people are just taught, you know, these people don't even want to work. They're just lazy. They just are happy to take handouts. And sure, there there may be some people that are don't want to and are happy to take handouts, but that could be said about any group, right? And and and the vast majority of people

• 11:19Speaker 00

  would prefer to just have dignity and work and provide for their families. And they would not prefer to not have meaning and purpose and sit around all day and not do anything, right? And it's just sad when you see it. It it people just feel so hopeless when they're in those situations.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  They do. And that then becomes probably the thing when they're walking into an interview or presenting their resume. It's their psychological feeling it's going to fail that just reinforces the fact it will fail. And that really knows no income barrier. That's because we see it among people like your friend, highly skilled, had a career, and there's just a downhill spiral. And I think especially with the men out of the workforce, that is a lot of the issue. Because to take a lesser job than what they had built their career upon seems like a step backwards.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  And yet, that's precisely what they need to do to bring themselves back into the workforce. They need to take something a little bit less.

• 12:29Speaker 00

  That's true. That's true. But a lot of employers won't even do that. A lot of employers don't want to hire someone who it would be overqualified for a job, right? Because then they see them as a flight risk. They see, you know, there there there's just so many layers to this of how challenging it becomes. What once you want and layoffs are so pervasive, right? So this is not like it's most often not their fault. Like, it's not like they got fired because they're a bad performer or something like that. Like, it is literally most often not anyone's fault. They're just, you know, the the the company is just mass layoffs, getting rid of headcount for whatever reason they've decided they want to

• 13:14Speaker 00

  double down on AI, whatever. And now this person has lost their job and it's hard to find a job. And all of a sudden, they go six months or a year without a job. And now all of a sudden, there's a gap on their resume. And and so now the next employer is like, I don't know, they have a gap on their resume. And now it's harder for them to get a job. And then they so now they're like, okay, maybe I have to take a lesser job to get back in. But the employer is saying, oh, I don't know, you're overqualified. Now you're a flight risk. So then it's even harder to get a job and it just snowballs, right? It's just, it's kind of ridiculous.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  You're right. It it isn't that the just as people say about the young people, they're they're not as engaged, they don't want to put in the time. It's and the older people who say, you know, I lost the job be not all the employer really wants is someone who's going to show up every day, get their job done, have a nice attitude. And all of that goes out the window as they think, well, there's hey, unemployment just dropped. It's I should be able to get the best people. I'll get, you know, people who will be able to compete it. And then they let people go. And then the employer has now been part of the problem, not a part of the solution. And we do see exactly what you're talking about. The loyalty isn't that the worker employer

• 14:28Speaker 01

  is the one who doesn't have a commitment towards long term employment. And as you know, some of the most profitable companies in the world, like a Facebook, who have just a few thousands of people who make trillions of dollars and are constantly saying, well, we don't need this division anymore. So rather than transferring them or retraining them, let's just get rid of them. It's cheaper. So it is the disengagement by the employers as well.

• 14:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, and to that point, like, it's so interesting to to note kind of the different strategic human capital perspectives, right? So like, the I mean, it's it's no, I guess it makes sense that that we would see culturally is like vastly different strategies. But like you have all the tech companies in the US with our kind of short termism and our kind of self centered kind of me first approach in the US versus more collectivistic cultures and and, you know, more long term orientation and other parts of the world, etc. But like, I think of some of the tech companies in the US and how how they've approached these things versus like even

• 15:38Speaker 00

  I think it was IKEA in Europe, just fairly recently, there's a big report on how, you know, they've they've they've just like everyone else, like they've they've used AI. And they realized, hey, you know, we don't need these thousands of customer support people. Because we have AI systems now that are actually more consistent, better. Our customers actually prefer them over our human customer support people oftentimes. Because they they just get better answers faster. They're they're they're helped faster, etc., right? So IKEA could have done what so many other companies have done and they could just say, okay,

• 16:22Speaker 00

  you know, we'll keep a kind of bare bones staff to do, you know, oversee and to do what needs to be done. But otherwise, we're going to largely have an AI system and get rid of thousands of people. They didn't do that, though. They they did the opposite. They did what you were saying. They decided, hey, we're how could we utilize these people? How could we leverage our human capital in a way that's going to build our business rather than just assume these people are dead weight? They retrained, they re-skilled this this whole thousands of people, these this this this whole group of employees to be more kind of kind of

• 17:04Speaker 00

  interior design, like not fully, but like partially interior design type people so that instead of just kind of normal customer support, like just answering basic questions, now they could actually help be like interior design consultants with people who are calling in, talking about furniture, talking about different knickknacks, whatever. And and they saw their their their business skyrocket and like all of a sudden it it increased things, you know, like two, three X of what they have been doing. So it clearly was a huge benefit. All because they just decided we're not we're not just going to throw our people under the bus, but we're going to actually leverage. We're going to reskill them. We're going to leverage them

• 17:49Speaker 00

  to then be augmented by AI to to do even more better stuff. Contrast that with so many of the US companies that have just said eh, we don't need people anymore. We're just gonna throw them away. And, and then you have all these people then are floundering, they, you know, when the, when the labor market gets flooded with all these thousands of people that are getting laid off, that then don't really have a place to go and then collectively, you know, there's just all of these people that are unemployed, that have months and months and sometimes even years go by that they're trying to find work. And it just, this spiral problem, um, for all the things we've been discussing,

• 18:30Speaker 00

  it just becomes more and more of a challenge for them individually, but then also for communities, for society as a whole. Uh, it's just such a stark contrast and I, I think, you know, companies can learn from this. I think we, from a public policy perspective, can learn from this a bit. Um, we can do better, like it doesn't have to be this way. Um, we've kind of created the mess that we are, are swimming in.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  I think we've all had the frustration though. I have and just this week, you know, trying to get through the AI answering. So I had to order some medicine for my husband and it was like, and I was hours saying, I can't, I need to speak to someone. There's a special situation here and it's like.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  And you never get through a person.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  I am your AI bot and I'm going to answer all your questions. No, you haven't. Could you let me talk to somebody? I have some emergency. It is an, please hang up and dial nine one one. No, not that kind of emergency. It's like, you know, I, it went on and I just, I couldn't even face it anymore. So I finally just went in and did what I had to buy and, but it was so aggravating to the point where it's not the same. I'm, I just am dropping ADT as a security system for all of our, our companies. Because there was a problem, there was a break in at one of the companies in one of the states. We were trying to reach ADT, nobody personally could answer to set the system so that we could open the doors the next day, but have a security system on. No.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  There was a fire next door, that's ADT shut down. We couldn't get anyone on the phone. Goodbye ADT. I have to use a smaller company. It's like you are being left out of the market because everyone can go on Amazon and buy whatever those are. Ring something and nobody needs you anymore. So why don't you answer your phone? Anyway, so I think that it's backfiring just as if you remember the big push for overseas people at the banks to answer your phone calls. What did you say? I've given you the spelling of my name. I've pronounced it five or six times. It's not that complicated. Please repeat it. I can't under, you know, whoever the person was. So they had to pull.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  In fact, Utah is one of the places where they got a lot of backroom services in the United States because it just didn't work very well, having people in these countries like India answer the phone because there was a communication problem. So I do think this will be a cycle with using AI where they're going to have to basically allow people to talk to live people as well.

• 21:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, there will be a pendulum swing. I think you're right. Um, well, I, I'm noting the time and we're gonna have to end here in a little bit, but let's, let's spend the last few minutes together to talk about like what we can do about this, right? Because we, we all know it's a problem. Um, there, you know, there have been companies that have not followed the trends, that have not just laid off masses of people to double down on AI. Um, and there are certainly other parts of the world and there are countries that have dealt with this in different ways. But, but here we are. In the US, this is where we're at. We have, um, unemployment rates that are continuing to increase. Not just the actual number that gets reported, but, but also the underemployment

• 21:56Speaker 00

  and, you know, the people that give up and just fall off, you know, the, the, that are even being counted. What do we do about it?

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Well, what, what we've learned is that the most important thing we can do is number one, emphasize the, the values of work. So we simulate that in our offices. We make sure people come in and they come in, you know, 15 minutes early before we start opening various things up for them. We do a lot of in classes, training, and a lot of that is to get at, why haven't you been successful? Really exploring what they've done. Um, we have somebody who has redesigned a tech person, who opted out of Google and Facebook and likes working with smaller businesses.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  A system where one application that he gets completed can feed into hundreds of different employers. So the same information is required to sit there and try to reorganize every application so that you could sit and apply to hundreds of diff, it's, it's usually time consuming. I mean, we could talk about how the centralization of, you know, Staples, having all the resumes go into a central office and then people get some kind of psychological test and they have to complete it. But every time you walk into Staples, there's no one to help you. I mean, it's like, and there's help wanted on the door. And I'll say to the general manager, uh, we can get you people. What's going on? Well, they have to go through the central office. It has to send me back resumes.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  What if I show you two or three people you're gonna like? And then you call central office because I've already made sure the applications are there. And, you know, you push them from that end. But there are a lot of things that are set up as roadblocks and that really hold people like your friend back from even having a conversation about your background and what it is you could do. But what we're doing is we're becoming a network for people. I mean, as you know, networks are still, whether your friend is working at that company, a relative is working at a company, you've been to a meeting and it's people who went to college with you or it's an association that you've joined. And there's someone who says, I have a couple of openings in my, you know, and they love my work.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  And they've asked me, do I have one or two people to refer? That is still primary. So what we try to do is become that network and we do it for people who don't have a way in. So half of our staff are out talking to companies and saying, what are the openings you have right now? What's your biggest problem? And it's always the same thing, you know? People don't have the right attitude. They don't have the right attendance. They're always, you know, coming in for an interview and asking, how many days can I work remotely and how many days do I get for vacation? Not two years from now, but immediately. And it's like, setting a tone that is not what people want.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  You know, the people who file consistent workers comp claims and become chronic at it. Now there are ways that employers are finding out about that. So really having the right presentation, but also maximizing how many places you can apply to and trying to circumvent some of those systems. But the most important thing is why, what happened? What happened on these interviews? Let's talk about it. So we run these groups for people who have chronically been unable to spite, to even get interviews. I mean, we're talking about not getting interviews. Um, and there are usually some very specific things they can do. Um, we, I just put a lot of emphasis on teaching people how you should be dressing for the workplace,

• 25:38Speaker 01

  how you should, you know, speak when you go in, especially with some of our low income, young people. Eye contact is so important, but never done eye contact. But you know what? Over the last couple of years, I've seen you start a job and, you know, before you're there, three weeks, you're dressing the way everyone else dresses. You know, you're not bringing a Looney Tune lunchbox in, which some of the people with developmental disabilities do. You're taking your lunch in a brown bag like everyone else there does, or you're going out. And it makes such a difference to have those, those kinds of groups. And now those groups exist all over the country.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  A lot of them are volunteer and all, and we just happen to be paid to really help people who are out of work. But we run a couple of different one-stop centers. That's part of the American system or all around the country that Labor Department runs where you can walk in, use the computers, take classes. You can meet like-minded people, set up kind of information sharing with them. And, and what we try to do in the one-stops is really set smaller groups together so people can work together with others who are like that. I mean, I lived in a town where everybody was in publishing. I mean, like it wasn't newspapers, it was magazines. And I didn't realize what had happened because it wasn't in the unemployment data,

• 27:03Speaker 01

  but all the men were picking up the children at school. And I, there's something really odd. And then I saw this. Magazine folded, this place laid off, this newspaper folded. And it, you know, the, the thing is, a lot of those people reemerged in the podcast world, reemerged in the Substack world. They're, they found other avenues to continue and they've become very creative about their later careers. And they were able to adapt. Uh, and that's often very, very difficult. So I would say one of my biggest learning points was we had a company in Indianapolis.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  And all the people who had laid off were men who had been in the hierarchy of like going out and playing golf, they were a vice president of this company or that company. Um, and the big thing was every time they took a new job, it was like, no one tells me what to do. It's like, there's no chain of command. I'm like, chain of command? It sounds like the military. Well, what, what do you mean? It's like you're supposed to basically brainstorm with your peers and your subordinates every day to come up new, fresh ideas. It was like so out of the realm of their previous jobs. And that's one of the issues with the missing men that is overlooked.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  The, their lack of multitasking ability, their lack of flexibility to really, you know, get down in the, we're all equal here, you know? You need to ask them for advice. The people who are answering the phone know more about your business than you'll ever know because you haven't answered the phone. So it's a real learning curve and I think that it's there for people, but they have to invest the time. And not, I, I just had this conversation with a young woman and she wants to be an influencer. And it's like, you know, it kills me because I barely know what they are. I mean, I know what it is because I have two daughters in their thirties and they talk about that. But I'd like, get back to work and don't tell me about the influencers.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  But it's, it's the whole idea that this, some kind of a golden goose out there. And she hasn't had a serious corporate job since she resigned, resigned from Spotify. And I'm like, okay, you need, if you really think you wanna command six figures, you need to go into a company and you need to sell yourself and you need to take a lower level job. I can't do that, I can't afford it. Well, how are you affording this? You know, well, my parents are helping, they pay my rent. Well, how long will that go on? Well, they're threatening me right now. Okay, so now's the time. So, I mean, but I, I, I see it every day. And the thing that the people we work with, whether they are people in the disabilities program,

• 29:52Speaker 01

  there are people who are from the inner cities, they were incarcerated, whatever their story is, they are so grateful for even an interview. And, you know, it breaks the employer's heart, these people come with their stories, very professional, but you know, they really, really, really wanna work. So when we look at data six months to nine months from there, we see that these are people who are staying with those employers. And it's interesting to me that some of the small employers, other ones who helped them find apartments, they have, you know, through the lunchroom, talked about this and that. And then one thing I'll say about the people on disability, they can be on the social security disability for the rest of their lives.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  It often takes them two or three years or more to get into the system. We just tell them, you wanna go to work? Well, I want, I can't give up my benefits. Well, you don't have to right away, you can try out a job, you can try different jobs and we'll help you do that. And the first thing they say is, I'm not, I don't feel lonely anymore, I go to work. I have a coworker, so it's like, yes. You know, things you don't even think about that are so valuable about the place of work. It isn't just what you're putting out there, it's the fact that you're working on teams and the fact that you'll suddenly know that somebody went away for the weekend. And you can say to them, how was it? What did you see? Where did you go? I mean, it's just all that, a friend of mine used to call it schmoozing.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  He was German Jewish, you know? All these Yiddish words that really mean, mean so much. But he used to say, the value of work is the schmoozing. You get to talk to people. And I do see that played out especially today when people are more and more lonely. So it's not only self-esteem that comes with the paycheck that you earn versus just a handout. It's also all the other things that go into it. Uh, UK did a study once, they found that six months out of work was like smoking three packs of cigarettes every day in terms of health. Your health deterioration when you're not out working, it's shocking how much, how fast that will deteriorate.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  We got a job for a young man who was morbidly obese, but he was working at Yankee Stadium, selling hot dogs. He was running up and down the bleachers, he lost thirty pounds just in a summer job. And they kept him on. So as the events change over from, you know, ballgames to arenas to, for music and other things, they kept him and he's still working there and has been promoted. But it's amazing how your health deteriorates when you don't have a place to go. And it's, it's true, this data is alarming to you and to me because it looks low. I mean, we used to say full employment, when I was getting my PhD was, you know, not that far from four point two, it's three point six.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  And it's, this is not full employment that we have because people have stopped looking out of discouragement. Or they're young and they wanna, they think there's some easy way to become famous out there. Um, sold to them by Facebook and the internet and all that, but, um, and they're, you know, the parents are enabling it. I had a friend who's buying homes for both her children and she's like, well, we were the golden age of employment. My husband and I, we both had good jobs, we had pensions, we had this, so we have to share it with our children. And that's not really a solution at all. We have to do a combination of making sure they get out there, do meaningful work

• 33:23Speaker 01

  and have some kind of a commitment and figure that out and help support them to get through this hump. But that's sort of what I observe, what I see, what my studies have taught me. And I am very concerned that we are going to be in this modality for a while because, you know, I, I see the lack of people in things like restaurants. I see, um, the fact that people aren't giving tips when they go to get a cup of coffee and the next person will start complaining, the, the actual person preparing the coffee will say, I used to get tips, now I don't. My employer, you know, factored that into my salary.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  So there's so many ramifications right now, but we have to stay optimistic and keep trying. And that's what we do. We look at it more and more creatively every year and we try to build things in around it. So I would encourage everyone to make use of the career centers that are operated by the federal government, by states in every state. Uh, because when they walk in the door and I have someone doing it, he told me, I have an autistic brother. I make the assumption when someone walks in the door, I don't care if they're a former businessman, they need help navigating what's going on out there. And I break it down into smaller pieces, like, we're gonna do this here. All the computer's time you, you need and how we're going to help you manage it.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  AI has been great for job search, for resume prep, for thank you notes and all of those traditional things. But there really has to be, again, the human dynamic that says, you're gonna be able to do this. It's interesting, the jobs you're looking at because I just, we helped someone last week. Let me tell you what happened. Telling those stories help people, sitting in a group with like-minded people to talk about why this is happening to them right now and how do they get around it? We bring in employers to run employer panels so that they can say, this is what we're really looking for. And you may be missing the boat because you don't know when you walk through the door. And what things are being, you know, you don't realize the receptionist is also trying to be like,

• 35:34Speaker 01

  if you're sitting on your phone and laughing and talking to somebody, that's gonna be noted in your actual application. So it's, it's been very interesting. And, um, I think what you're doing is a huge service to the country because people need what you're talking about. And I see it and you see it. And anything we can do to help people is a wonderful thing.

• 36:00Speaker 00

  Well, Lee, I appreciate that. And I appreciate all of your insights, the work that you do. All of this reminds me, I don't know if you recall the old 90s movie Dave, where the guy is an actor who impersonates the president and then I don't even remember why, but he ends up actually going to the White House and like pretending to be the president. But his whole thing is like, I want to get people jobs. And I think he actually worked in a temp agency before going to impersonate the president. Anyways, the whole thing is about him wanting to get people jobs because there's something about people, you know, working and the dignity that

• 36:39Speaker 00

  they feel and the self-respect and, and just the self-esteem and, and what changes in people when, when they're given that opportunity. And I've seen it in the lives of, of people as well. And I've also seen the opposite. I've seen people who have been, you know, had great careers and gainfully employed and like just have just really successful lives, all of a sudden lose that confidence and lose so much of who they are and their identity because really no fault of their own. Like they get laid off and then they're just kind of getting the spiral of, of just frustration and, and it's so hard to get out of.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  It really is.

• 37:26Speaker 00

  So we just need to keep doing this work. We need to keep supporting folks and, and for anyone who's listening, you know, who may be in that situation, or anyone who's listening, has a loved one or a friend who may be in the situation, just continue to help them, support them, help them network, all those things. So we can get them back to doing what they do and, and making a contribution because ultimately that, that will be better for them, obviously, but for their families, for, for, for their communities, for society as a whole. Well, we, we probably need to let you get on with your busy day. But as we wrap up, I just wanted to give you a chance to share with the audience how they can connect with you, find out more about your work, and then give us a final word for today.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Okay, well, we are, as I said, in different states, a whole, over the country. And the best way to access us is to go on our website, americaworks.com. And, you know, then you'll see how to get in touch with us and how to, if we have a program currently operating where you are. But again, I would also encourage people to look at the American Job Centers and that that's a resource that they should not just go and use a computer to hit send, but really take advantage. I know when we run them, we have all kinds of other services there. And I think that that's something they should be doing automatically. Gives them peer group,

• 38:51Speaker 01

  gives them some self-awareness. One of the best things in the world, you know this and I know this, get out and help someone else. You know, it, it doesn't matter that you're struggling to try to find a job. There is somebody who looks up to you, who really could use a helping hand for lower level jobs. You help one person, it will not only make your day, your week, your year, but it will also give you the confidence to walk into that next interview and tell them what you did for someone else. Employers are so impressed with that. And I think we should never forget our service to other people. And that that's what makes us joyful. That's what

• 39:34Speaker 01

  gives us purpose. That's what will make us have confidence. And I think more of us should be doing that. Because there's not, you know, you could be top executive and lost your job and you're trying to find your way back in. But you started out, you know, you were answering phones at some place, you were running at a club, country club or whatever, to help people get their golf games set up, their tennis games, whatever your jobs were, as you were growing up, there are people struggling to find those as well. Help them out.

• 40:06Speaker 00

  I love it. I love it. Lee, it has been a pleasure. I encourage the audience to reach out, get connected, find out more about what Lee and her team can do for you. And as always, I hope everyone can stay healthy and safe. You can find meaning and purpose at work each and every day. And I hope you all have a great week.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  You too. Thank you so much. I really appreciated this. Take care.

• 40:29Speaker 00

  Thanks for joining us for this episode of the podcast. We hope you stay healthy and safe and please join us again soon.