History of Dragons

Dracarys, my divas! Today we are talking about the history of dragons! Diving back first to Ancient China, we are going to start by summarising the origins of Dragon mythology before focusing on one specific region and it's links to the winged firebreathers of old - Mount Pilatus in Switzerland! Doing some real boots-on-the-ground journalism from 2,132m above sea level, we will tour dragon caves, hold mysterious dragon stones and look at the legends which made Pilatus 'the dragon mountain', all of which is made possible by Swiss Tourism, who organised this incredible opportunity. Shout out to our incredible researcher Charlotte Wilkes and editor Jamie Rose for pulling this together. If you're wanting more Hot History content you can follow along on Instagram @thehothistorypod and @hothistoryclub, on TikTok @hot.history, on Substack @hothistoryclub and of course, right here! 'Til next week, Ainslie x

• 0:00Speaker 00

  What the hell is this thing? And it's a good question. So, I, my divas, am taking matters into my own hands to try and figure this out by visiting the dragon stone in person here in Lucerne. And maybe, just maybe, if we are very, very lucky, we may even get a chance to hold it. So let's go.

• 0:34Speaker 00

  Hi guys and welcome back to Hot History, your corner of the internet where we cover all the things in history you probably should know but don't. Or, as I should probably say today, guys, grüci. Because as my divas watching will see, we are not in the studio today. Instead, we are 2,128.5 metres above sea level, reporting for this episode of Hot History, live from Mount Pilatus in Switzerland. That's right, guys, we are doing some proper boots-on-the-ground journalism today as we deep dive into the history of the fire-breathing, scale-bearing, 100% coolest mythological creatures of them all: dragons. And we are doing so from the top of what is known as the Dragon Mountain, Pilatus in Lucerne.

• 1:17Speaker 00

  Guys, honestly, I am so excited for this episode, okay? I have loved our Curse series that we've been doing, covering mythology and conspiracy theories, and as an avid, fourth-wing Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon girly, this has been at the top of my episode bucket list, which is made possible by Swiss Tourism, who have very kindly organised this incredible trip for us to not only experience the amazing history of this gorgeous country, but the beauty of autumn, which is just breathtaking. Speaking of which, guys, if you are not watching on video, then don't worry, because I am going to share some clips on socials, but if you can switch to video, then absolutely do so today, guys, because we are going to be showing you dragon stones.

• 1:58Speaker 00

  We are going into the very caves where mythology blends with reality and just generally taking you along on this hot historical adventure. So let's jump into it, guys, by firstly unpacking what we know about dragons today. So when I say the word dragon, there could be any number of things that come to mind. You could think wings, or fire-breathing, or destructive. Perhaps you even think sacred. And these are all totally valid, guys, with our modern interpretations largely influenced by Hollywood, from Drogon and Daenerys to Smaug and the Hobbit, and even the dragon in Shrek, all shaping our understanding of these creatures as large reptilian beings with wings and usually two legs, which is going to be important when we get to the

• 2:41Speaker 00

  different kinds of dragons in a minute, guys, because technically speaking, dragons with two legs aren't actually dragons, they're wyvins, but I'm getting ahead of myself. So let's rewind it back, guys, to the first evidence we have of these giant reptilian creatures and unpack how the origins of dragon mythology began, starting in Neolithic China around 5,000 to 3,000 BCE. Here, we find what many archaeologists believe to be the first depiction of dragons in history, with a small jade-carved figure of a coiled serpent-like creature with a pig head, believed to have been created by the Hongshan peoples. So from the get-go, guys, right? The reptilian serpent-like physicality is established, which we also see in ancient

• 3:23Speaker 00

  Mesopotamia around 2,700 BCE, with the figure of Kher, a giant Sumerian serpent monster who was involved in the creation of the universe. But, just because these are the earliest forms of archaeology or written evidence about dragons, it does not mean by any way, shape or form that they actually were the earliest. In fact, one of the earliest oral mythologies speaking about serpent figures was on Aussie soil around 6,000 BCE, with the dreaming story of the Rainbow Serpent, which is an essential term used for different beings and stories across many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures, which is often associated with water, rivers, rain and fertility.

• 4:05Speaker 00

  Which is interesting here, guys, because these earliest depictions and beliefs of dragons and serpents aren't associated with fire-breathing destruction like we see in our modern interpretations. Rather, they are seen as beings of creation, with other depictions in ancient Asia also noting these creatures as serpentine-scaled, four-legged beings who had control over the weather, and despite not having wings, had the magic of the gods to fly in certain conditions, according to the Shanhai Jing, which translates to the Classic Mountain and Seas, written between 400 to 200 BCE. They also are noted as having interconnected power systems between various dragon kings who ruled over lesser dragons and were known to shapeshift into beautiful humans who lived in magnificent castles.

• 4:50Speaker 00

  So, very, uh, civilized, right? With these ancient mythologies who really tie dragons to the ideas of creation and the powers of life-giving natural resources like water and land. Which kind of answers the next question we have here, right? Why were dragon mythologies created in the first place? I mean, what prompted the first peoples, from the indigenous Australians to the Hongshan peoples and later the Greeks, to dream up these giant serpent beings? Well, according to German art historian Heinz Mode, he believes that dragons are one of humanity's earliest attempts to make sense of a world that was, frankly, full of things we couldn't explain.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  From the weather to the oceans to the harvest and the seasons, these constantly changing, often inexplicable forces were essential for daily human life. And with no explanation for how they worked, it made sense that these ancient people would create grand, divine, imposing creatures who controlled them. But, because this really is the heart of the question here, guys, how did they actually get the idea of dragons as these giant, fire-breathing reptilian creatures? Well, this lies, rather boringly, in fossils, which we actually kind of touched on in our Odyssey episode a few months back, not in the context of dragons, but rather with cyclopses, with Homer and his predecessors finding the skulls of elephants, which had these giant

• 6:14Speaker 00

  holes in them where the trunks would have been, creating the idea that, you know, they were these one-eyed beasts. Same goes here, guys, with large bones, fossils and, of course, living dinosaurs like crocodiles and lizards, inspiring a lot of the characteristics we see in dragon myths. Which, you may think is a bit of a stretch, but we see this in a far more modern example with Marco Polo, the Italian merchant and trader in the late 1200s who claimed he saw both a unicorn and a dragon, which actually turned out to be a rhino and an alligator. So, very easy for real animals to bleed into mythology, which is probably a good time to talk about the difference within dragon kind, because not all of them are black-scaled, fearsome flyers like Drogon.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  All right, guys, I am so excited to nerd out over this with you all, so, get comfy. Within dragon mythology, all right, we have four to five different types of creatures who make up the species, including the traditional Western dragon, which has four legs and two wings, and the wyvern, which looks the same as the dragon but has two legs and two wings. We then also have the straight serpents, which can also be known as worms, who live both above and below the water, like the Loch Ness monster in Scotland, for example, and then the basilisks, who were serpent creatures that could kill through eye contact, à la Medusa, which, you know, even here we see links with serpents on her head. We also have drakes and trocontopods, which are thought to have come from the Balkan people

• 7:42Speaker 00

  of South Eastern Europe, and usually refers to a monstrous dragon-human hybrid, which we also see in Asian culture with the Naga from India, Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand, which had the lower half of a snake and the upper body of a-

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• 8:56Speaker 00

  Human. So guys, a very wide spanning mythology in the dragon verse, which isn't only ever changing in terms of physicality, but also in terms of meaning. With these early interpretations of dragons linked to creation and the divine, starting to change as the European cultures absorbed the dragon into their own mythology, which is really where the wings and the idea of fire breathing comes into play. First described in Hesiod's Theogony around 700 BCE, we have the great serpent Typhon, who is a monstrous being born to Gaia and Tartarus, who many credit as the first fire breather alongside the Hydra in that same text, which was a gigantic, multi-headed water serpent that Heracles killed as one of his 12 labours,

• 9:41Speaker 00

  which also had toxic breath. Moving up 100 years, we then have the tale of Python, a gigantic serpent associated with Delphi, one of ancient Greece's most sacred religious sites, whom the god Apollo killed to establish his sanctuary, which is where the term python for snakes comes from. And guys, interestingly is also where the word dragon comes from, with the Greek word drakon meaning large serpent. So in all of these early Greek myths, right? We start to see dragons being associated with destruction and as such needed to be slayed, something which is actually reflected in the stars with Draco Serpentine constellation, thought to be the remains of a giant serpent with long, sharp teeth and wings

• 10:26Speaker 00

  that Athena killed and threw into the sky. So we're really seeing a theme here, guys, of European dragons not being very benevolent and friendly, especially to young, hot, unmarried divas. That's right, guys. The stereotypes of the damsel in distress being guarded by an evil dragon did not come out of Hollywood. It actually came from the ancient world, with deep ties between virgins and dragons, starting with the story of Princess Andromeda, who was chained to a rock as a sacrifice for a dragon-like sea monster to appease the gods, after which she's rescued by the hot demigod Perseus. We also see this with arguably the most famous historic dragon of them all in the third century,

• 11:09Speaker 00

  where Roman soldier and Christian martyr St. George went head to head with the dragon after a lottery of human sacrifices was held, which saw the king's daughter put up for the dragon's next meal. Finding her crying while walking over to the dragon's cave, the brave St. George takes on the beast, using the princess's girdle to lead the dragon to the townspeople, who then seek their revenge by killing it, which is so legendary, guys, that St. George's emblem, a red cross with a white background, now serves as the flag of England. It's also key to note that it was amongst the early European Christians, especially those in France and Germany, that the ancient serpents were transformed into the familiar winged dragon we know.

• 11:52Speaker 00

  With historian Daniel Ogden arguing that while much of the body and head came from the ancient serpents, right? That reptilian idea that we see. The wings and possibly even the legs came from representations of demons and the devil in Christian iconography, with the Book of Revelation associating the great dragon with Satan, which artists over time combined into one great beast. Which also does make sense why there is so many tales of these kind of hero warrior knights slaying dragons from this time, an act which would have been akin to slaying a manifestation of the devil as part of this kind of battle for good versus evil. So some super compelling ancient and modern contemporary evidence for dragons,

• 12:37Speaker 00

  from the serpents of creation to the winged beasts of the early Christian age. But arguably, guys, one of the richest histories of dragons in the Western world lies not in England or Greece or France, but rather in one of the most remote, beautiful and well-preserved landscapes in the world, right here in Switzerland. That's right, my divas. The nation of cheese, chocolate and, as you can see, views that will take your breath away, is inextricably linked with our mythological creatures. But before we get to touring the exact evidence for dragons here, let's do a brief explainer on Switzerland itself throughout the ages. So first and foremost, Switzerland is located in the middle of Europe,

• 13:23Speaker 00

  with approximately 60% of the country itself covered by the Swiss Alps, which you can see behind me, with over 47 mountains soaring higher than 4,000 metres. And I actually visited one of these the other day, guys. Literally the highest point in Europe you can get to via train. And let me tell you, not only was it amazing, but it snowed, which like, might sound obvious given it's that high up, but for like an Aussie like me, it is such a treat. There are also deep glacial valleys and major European river sources like the Rhine and the Rhone, which run through Switzerland, as well as the central plateau known as the Mittelland, which sits at 400 to 700 metres above sea level and is filled with rolling hills, farmlands and large lakes, such as Lake Geneva and Lake Lucerne,

• 14:07Speaker 00

  which again, if you're on video, guys, is right behind me. Geographically, it's also an incredibly interesting nation, sharing borders with Germany, Italy and France, leading to a mix of cultures, cuisines and languages, which makes Switzerland one of the most exciting nations on earth to visit. But if we're all being honest, it really does come down to the landscape, which honestly, like looking behind me, I still think it's so wild that we're filming a podcast up here. It looks fake, okay? Like so many times throughout this trip, I've been looking at the windows of trains and planes and like hotel rooms and just like, I cannot believe what I'm actually looking at. Like AI wishes that it could create something this amazing, which is exactly why Switzerland is prime real estate

• 14:51Speaker 00

  for mythology, folklore and magic, like our dragons, to run wild. Now, I want to of course say at the top here, all right? Before we get into any of the specifics and before any of you come and drop it into my comment section, there is no credible scientific evidence that dragons actually existed. Like dinosaurs, for example, where like we do have, you know, evidence, there's fossils. However, there is substantial historical evidence here, which proves how much the Swiss people believed they did exist, including surviving legal documents, medieval chronicles, eyewitness accounts, scientific publications, and even a physical object associated with a dragon, which we're not only going to speak on, but visit.

• 15:35Speaker 00

  So let's get into the legends of the Swiss dragons here on Mount Pilatus by fast forwarding from the depths of ancient China all the way up to 1421, when according to Swiss legend, a farmer named Stamflie witnessed something extraordinary near the village of Rothenberg, just north of where we are on Pilatus in the Lucerne region. Now, according to Stamflie, he was busy farming hay when suddenly a giant shadow took over the landscape. And when he looked up, he saw a winged beast flying across the sky from the direction of Mount Riki towards Mount Pilatus. Now, I will admit, his account is a little bit sketchy here, guys. But basically, he says he either passed out or was knocked out

• 16:19Speaker 00

  and woke up to find a mysterious stone, which he believed the dragon had dropped, which, you know, very kind of coincidental that this giant dragon dropped this stone exactly where Stamflie had fallen, but you know, I'm not going to yuck anyone's yum. And we do also have a second source to kind of back this story up here, from Lucerne chronicler Renward Sisat, writing from later in the 1500s, who says the summer of 1421 was exceptionally hot, which wasn't good conditions for the dragon, who fled towards the mountainous caves on Pilatus, emitting flames and a terrible stench, which is when Stamflie kind of looks up and sees this creature, which descends so close that he fainted and later woke up to find not just the stone,

• 17:02Speaker 00

  but actually a strange gelatinous lump which resembled coagulated blood. Poking it with a stick, as you obviously would, he moved the bloody kind of jelly to the side and found within the mess a smooth, rounded stone. Now, again, guys, we have to very much take this with a pinch of salt, obviously, because these accounts are largely oral retellings, with the earliest known legal record of the stone dating from 1509, so nearly 90 years after the supposed encounter, where one of Stamflie's descendants pledged the stone to Lucerne surgeon Martin Schreiber. But even this document is kind of confusing because it actually attributes the original discovery of the stone to Stamflie's grandfather

• 17:45Speaker 00

  and also doesn't specify 1421 as the date of discovery. So we've kind of got some conflicting evidence here for sure, which really does add to the wider mysticism, something that goes up tenfold by 1523. Because it was around this time that the dragon stone is mentioned as possessing magical powers. That's right, my divas. Surely you don't think that this is just any old stone coated in dragon blood? Instead, it is believed to heal the sick, restore the lame and even save those on the brink of death, which we know, thanks to official paperwork from 1523, which the surgeon Martin Schreiber had drawn up and witnessed by the court,

• 18:28Speaker 00

  recording the stone's medicinal powers, which he used to aid his patients. Now, I spoke to someone about this and they actually said it was kind of similar um to like a bit of a patent, right? Which absolutely leaves me asking, how? Right? How is this stone meant to heal people? Do you kind of put it under your pillow and hope for the best like the tooth fairy? Is it a kind of medieval bath bomb and we're soaking in it situation? Well, no, to either of those things, for it's actually more akin to a kind of medieval ankle monitor, with Schreiber tying the dragon stone around his patients' legs to draw poison from their body, including, according to the Lucerne Museum, the plague of 1519.

• 19:13Speaker 02

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• 19:41Speaker 00

  Now, obviously, guys, none of this is actually medically legit. But it doesn't really matter, okay? The same way that a lot of the evidence with folklore don't really matter from a factual point of view, because it actually reveals something else, which, in my opinion, is far more valuable. And that's how real people from our past lived, what they believed in, and why that shaped their lives, which, in the case of the Dragonstone here, is incredibly important, because it shows us the links between the Lucerne people's understanding of medicine, nature, and mythology, something we separate quite neatly in modern medicine. Now, this belief of the healing Dragonstone remained an essential part of Swiss mythology,

• 20:24Speaker 00

  especially in Lucerne, up until the end of the 18th century, when the rise in tourism, the Enlightenment, and the general wantedness to ask greater, more scientifically probing questions soared, leaving people wondering, what the hell is this thing? And it's a good question. So, I, my divas, am taking matters into my own hands to try and figure this out by visiting the Dragonstone in person here in Lucerne, and maybe, just maybe, if we are very, very lucky, we may even get a chance to hold it. So, let's go. Okay, guys, so the team here have very kindly pointed us in the right direction of the Dragonstone. It is literally right in front of me, and more than that, they have

• 21:04Speaker 00

  very kindly let me film with a replica, which, I will say, I kind of feel like Daenerys getting her dragon eggs on her wedding day. However, this one, guys, will not bring forth the last generation of dragons, because despite some of the theories, it is not an egg. And actually, I will admit, is rather more humble than what I was expecting. For those of you guys who are listening along, I would say it fits pretty snugly in the palm of my hand, although I do have tiny hands. And there's nothing particularly shiny or grand, bar some painted designs on the side, which, again, guys, like, to be fair, this checks out for the period, so a big tick there. But that's not necessarily the

• 21:44Speaker 00

  question we're asking. Instead, we want to know whether this checks out to be from a dragon, which, according to the staff here, guys, it doesn't. I'm so sorry, I know, but researchers used CT scanners in 2006, which was like 20 years ago, guys, to finally solve this history mystery once and for all, identifying the Dragonstone not as an egg and not as a meteorite, but rather as a painted clay ball, with the decorative markings being man-made. However, okay, I'm caveating here, because I do not want to be the one to kill the whimsy and kill the magic and the vibes. No one loves the mythological more than me.

• 22:23Speaker 00

  All right? It genuinely pains me that we have no dragons, or mermaids, or fairies, or, you know, High Lords with sexy bat wings who are going to save us from doomed marriages on this earth. So I am holding on, like you guys at home, to any hope for magic that we have here, which does come in the form of rather strange radioactive markings, which, to this day, guys, remain unclear as to why certain areas of the Dragonstone show increased radioactivity. So, guys, we still have hope for some bit of magic here. Speaking of which, let's get back up to Pilatus, because Stampli and the Dragonstone aren't the only sources we have for the region's dragon inhabitants.

• 23:08Speaker 00

  Okay, guys, so we know Stampli is supposed to have seen the first dragon over Lucerne around 1421, which, FYI, I will say before we go any further, so you can get a clear picture in your head here, it was not like Daenerys's dragons, okay? In fact, the people of this region, and Switzerland more broadly, had their own species of dragons inspired by German traditions called worms. Now, we mentioned them briefly before at the top, but this is worm, spelt W-Y-R-M. And unlike Drogon, they were far more serpentine-like. So, um, if you've seen House of the Dragon, for example, here, Caraxes, Damon's dragon, is far more similar to these worms, which the showrunners and George R.R.

• 23:51Speaker 00

  Martin immortalized by giving him the nickname of the Bloodworm, spelt the same way. So like Caraxes, Stampli's dragon is thought to have been one of these worms, specifically a tutselworm, which is described as having a serpent-like body with two to four short legs, a long neck, and the face of a cat, which could vary in size from as little as 30 centimeters to as large as a house. These were alpine dragons, whose temperament is noted as being far more akin to a skittish wild animal with occasional interactions with humans, which we'll get to shortly, revealing these creatures as far more flight-than-fight kind of beings. Although, when they were provoked, they would reportedly spew fire and poison. Most of the time, though, they were known for their activities in the cow-stealing

• 24:36Speaker 00

  business, terrorizing dairy farmers by eating all their cows in the middle of the night in the higher altitude regions we see here on Mount Pilatus. But these weren't the only kinds of dragons we had in the Lucerne region. Instead, if we jump up from Stampli's sighting in 1421 to May 26, 1499, we find the first report of a lindworm, which is another serpent-like dragon, although this kind is far bigger than 30 centimeters and without wings, which, you may think, looking at this view, right, sucks for a dragon of the mountains to not be able to fly. But the lindworm wasn't from the heights of Pilatus. No. You see, instead, guys, it lurked in the lake beneath us here, which means we are talking about sea monsters,

• 25:21Speaker 00

  guys. Something that always, I don't know if it's just like super niche to me, always makes me think of the second Percy Jackson film, which had like a similar sea serpent unicorn thing. But the Lucerne example here wasn't so CGI, with the lindworm first being reported in 1499. After a huge storm saw the people of the town witness a gigantic wingless dragon emerge from the turbulent waters of the Ruys River near the Spurrt Bridge, which several respectable and educated citizens said had swept down from Pilatus during the storm. And this wasn't the only lindworm sighting. For another pops up, thanks to Swiss chronicler Peterman Etten, who tells us the story of Winklreit, a man who was

• 26:04Speaker 00

  given one chance to return home after being banished from Lucerne for committing a murder if he could go and kill a lindworm on Pilatus. Refusing to be exiled, he took the mission in his stride, wrapping thorny branches around his spear, sneaking up the mountain to the dragon caves, and thrusting the weapon into the dragon's open jaws, killing it, although not before a drop of the beast's poisonous blood landed on Winklreit's hand, killing him instantly. Speaking of which, guys, shall we go and see the actual caves where these dragons were meant to have lived? Because I don't know about you, but I get the ancient history, okay? I also get the different kind of dragon types. I even get the Dragonstone and the various worm species that are said to have lived here. But I still don't quite

• 26:48Speaker 00

  get why here. You know, what about this mountain, and this lake, and these people made them believe that dragons roamed the skies? So, let's do a bit of context on Mount Pilatus itself, and then we are going to lace up our boots and go and experience the dragon walk for ourselves, and with a bit of luck, maybe find a fossilized egg and rebirth the species with me ruling as their mother from the sky. Or, you know, just get greater context for this story. Now, when it comes to Mount Pilatus here, obviously, the first thing I think of is stunning, right? And it actually came up first thing this morning via the steepest cogwheel train in the world, and the views were insane. I'm going to drop these in the social feeds if you're not watching right now. But objectively, we all see this

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  place and think, my god, stunning, right? It's full of caves and strange minerals and clouds towering above the town with dangerous cliffs that are difficult to access, which makes it so hypnotic and incredible. But that wasn't necessarily how people felt about the mountain in the past. In fact, for centuries, the Lucernians were genuinely afraid of this great peak, with its huge jagged formations jutting into the sky like some kind of great spine, with medieval sources referring to it as Mons Fractus, meaning Broken Mountain, which not only created the legends of dragons in the region, but other mythological creatures,

• 28:13Speaker 00

  such as hobgoblins and mischievous dwarfs called Togless. There was also an element of the supernatural at work up here, surrounding one of Christianity's most controversial and feared figures, Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor who presided over the trial of Jesus and ultimately ordered his crucifixion. This, of course, for early and medieval Christians, was a great sin, something that was ultimately tied back to this foreboding place, with the legend spreading that after Pilate's death, terrible storms followed his remains, and as such, they were moved from place to place before eventually being thrown into a lake here, where his restless spirit was said to have remained. Now, historically, there is as much evidence for the body of Pilate being on this

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  mountain as there is of dragons roaming the skies, guys. But, looking at the geography, the unpredictable weather, it was literally raining two minutes ago, and the difficulties of human access up here, it's not difficult to understand why this mountain inspired such fear, whether it was of dragons or the spirit of Christianity's Most Wanted. But, not all of the places on this mountain were considered cursed or angry. In fact, there was one very sacred space linked again with medicine here called the Mondmilkloch, meaning the moon milk cave, which gets its name from the pale mineral deposits called moon milk, which forms from calcium carbonate. Now, we know today there's little medicinal purpose for this, but to the Lucernean people,

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  they harvested this precious resource as a medicine to heal wounds, soothe various ailments, and even stimulate lactation in nursing mothers. So the mountain has good and less good supernatural elements, although, thanks to a Lucerne priest named Johann Müller, we can put the angry spirit of Pontius Pilate to bed, after he climbed to the lake on the mountain with this kind of large group of people and started throwing stones into it deliberately, and no angry spirit came out. So, thank goodness for him, because the Pilate thing was freaking me out, I have to admit. But what has long endured, guys, is, of course, the dragons, whose caves and rocky homes we now stand in, so we're going to explore. Now, as we've mentioned throughout, the Pilatus dragons were reportedly attracted to these

• 30:22Speaker 00

  rocky formations, with the tunnels and harsh cave openings providing refuge and security from any number of things, whether it was the weather, which, as we've seen, is ever-changing, humans, or just generally a place to rest, at least according to legend. And I see how these could absolutely be a place for serpent-like dragons to hide in. But, guys, these tunnels are pretty small. Like, I'm in here now, I'm probably like 175 centimetres, and it's, you know, less than a metre above my head, which again reinforces the belief that these dragons were not the huge, wiven, you know, Drogon-inspired beasts, but the long serpentine worms. But, they can't be hanging out in these passages only, they've got to have caves to move around

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  in, to, you know, coil their bodies in, and have a place to call home. So, is there any evidence of big caverns which could hold dragons here? Well, on this dragon path, no, which checks out, because this was only open in the last 150 years, with the modern path forming part of the infrastructure surrounding Pilatus, after the Cogwheel Railway opened in 1889 and tourism became a part of this mountain's story, thanks in part to Queen Victoria, who actually travelled here, guys, in 1868, which helped popularise the region and the mountain. But, guys, of course, it's mainly the dragons. And just because there's no evidence of caves along this dragonweg now, doesn't mean there's zero proof against them being cave dwellers, full stop.

• 31:47Speaker 00

  In fact, we actually have a pretty significant account which attests to this, so let's unpack it. Okay, guys, so firstly, we don't have an exact date for this story, but we do know that at some point in the medieval period, a young cooper, which was the general term for a skilled craftsman who made and repaired wooden items, was on Pilatus and ended up falling into a dark cave on the slopes, where he discovered two nesting dragons. Initially, he was, of course, petrified, knowing the lore of these beasts as fire-breathing, devil-aligned creatures, however, there was no fire-breathing, no devilry, and no beastly behaviour at all towards the young cooper. Instead, they were quite benevolent, watching over the boy during the winter when the cave

• 32:31Speaker 00

  was frozen shut, showing him how to lick the walls of the cave for the moon milk we spoke about earlier, before flying away when the spring thaw arrived, and offering one of their tales to him as a lift. So, basically, toothless from How to Train Your Dragon, okay? Which, again, very, very different from the evil, needs-to-be-slaved, fire-breathers which pop up in other medieval Christian traditions. And looking broadly at the dragons of Pilatus, they were not like this. Yes, of course, they stole farmers' cows, and yes, one of them knocked out Starmflee with its tail, or its breath, or whatever, but they weren't actively terrorising people. And in this particular situation, they actually saved one, which we love, but probably leaves

• 33:15Speaker 00

  you asking, how does this prove they had caves, though? And, it's a fair point, but we do have some physical evidence here with the cooper's chossable. So, as the story goes here, guys, when the cooper was kind of picked up and dropped off, you know, out of this cave by the nice uber-dragon, he made his way back down to Lucerne and told the people of his encounter, which made such an impact on him that he commissioned an embroidered chossable, which is basically a ceremonial garment worn by Catholic priests, which featured the dragons on the back, and according to tradition, was donated to the treasury of the Church of Saint Lettiger in Lucerne. Now, I went to the church trying to look for it, the treasury is like completely closed off, except for a couple of times during the year, so I couldn't fact-check this, but

• 33:58Speaker 00

  there is some evidence of this encounter with the nice cave dragons, but again, this is likely mythology. But, I don't care, guys, okay? I am choosing to believe in the wonderful and the magical, okay? And being here, I can absolutely see how the people of Lucerne could think that dragons roamed these skies, looking to the fantastic beasts for connection to the great height and landscape which inspires such awe. And, the medieval Lucernians were not the only ones who thought this, guys. In fact, in the 17th century, educated men were still recording supposed dragon sightings around Pilatus, including Christoph Skora in 1649, who reportedly saw what he described

• 34:40Speaker 00

  as a huge shining dragon emerging from a rock opening on Pilatus, which rapidly beat its wings and threw off sparks like glowing iron being forged by a blacksmith. Jesuit scholar Athanasius Kerscher and Swiss naturalist Johann Jacob Schuetzer also included dragon reports from Switzerland in their writings, saying, quote, "I saw a fiery shining dragon rise from one of the caves of Mount Pilatus and direct itself rapidly towards Flulun, to the other end of the lake. Enormous in size, his tail was still longer and his neck very extended. His head and jaws were those of a serpent. In flying, he emitted on his way numerous sparks. I thought at first I was seeing a meteor, but soon, looking more attentively, I was

• 35:24Speaker 00

  convinced by his flight and the confirmation of his body that I saw a veritable dragon." Which, guys, I don't know if you've seen Fleabag or not, but there is this scene, I think about it all the time, in Fleabag Season Two, where Andrew Scott, as the hot priest, is talking to Fleabag and just kind of saying how, you know, she doesn't believe in an ex-life when we die, and he says, "Why would you believe in something awful when you can believe in something wonderful?", referring to heaven and the afterlife and, you know, all the kinds of wider biblical miracles and feats of nature, blah, blah, blah. And I very much think this way about dragons, okay, guys? Like, why can't we believe incredible stories that great ancient beasts emerged from shining

• 36:06Speaker 00

  caves and beat their wings so much that sparks flew across the sky? Like, that's awesome! And the reason why so many Hollywood blockbusters and bestselling fiction novels feature dragons, because we love them, because they're so cool! And being here, in this incredible landscape, I can absolutely see how these myths are formed. And while I couldn't find any credible, anyway, well-documented 21st-century sightings of an actual dragon on Pilatus, I'm just happy to experience this slice of magic myself. And I really love how Pilatus and Swiss tourism more generally have embraced the incredible history of mythology throughout its lands, and given us the ability to experience and delight in these stories.

• 36:48Speaker 00

  So if you are looking for your next hot historical adventure, you're wanting to do a bit of a pilgrimage, okay? Then I cannot recommend Switzerland enough, especially Lucerne here. It has such a rich history beyond Pilatus and the dragons, as one of the most gorgeous medieval cities, sitting beside Lake Lucerne. And I actually found out the other day, it is the most photographed town in all of Switzerland, and it's not hard to see why, with its historic bridges and buildings, the ancient Royce River running straight through it, and then, of course, Mount Pilatus towering over it all. So this is absolutely a trip to pin to the vision board, because you need to see it to believe it. Which does bring us to the end of another episode of Hot History, guys. Thank you so much for following along with me on this episode.

• 37:32Speaker 00

  I am thrilled to be able to bring you along with me on this IRL journey, and really embrace our inner mythomaniacs, okay? Make sure you tune in next week, because we are keeping in the same kind of vein here, all right? We're going into the spooky season with the man, the myth, the legend behind one Count Dracula, Vlad the Impaler. In the meantime, guys, if you'd like some more hot history in your feeds, you can follow us on Instagram and Substack at Hot History Club, and on YouTube and TikTok at Hot.History. As always, it's been a pleasure getting down and dirty in time with you, and I will speak to you all back in the studio next week. Thanks, guys, love you, bye.

• 38:17Speaker 00

  This episode of Hot History was recorded on Darrickland, always was, always will be, Aboriginal it.

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