Jon Anderson - Summer Staff Picks

Our summer tradition at Here’s the Thing continues, as staff members choose their favorite conversations from the archives for our Summer Staff Pick series. This week, we revisit Alec’s conversation with Jon Anderson. Many words can be used to describe singer-songwriter Jon Anderson; cautious is not one of them. Born in England in 1944, he began singing on his brother’s daily route as a milkman before falling head first for rock n’ roll. After meeting bassist Chris Squire in the late 1960s, he joined a rock group called Mabel Greer’s Toy Shop—and the two left to form a band that was later renamed Yes. Now 72, he’s sold more than 50 million albums worldwide. But for the adventurous Anderson—whose rendition of Goldfinger earned him the nickname "The Shirley Bassey of Rock and Roll," it’s still all about the music. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Granger knows if you're a procurement manager at an industrial manufacturing facility, you're balancing inventory and budget while sourcing critical supplies across the operation. Too much inventory, costs climb. Too little, production slows. Granger's $2 billion in on-hand inventory helps you get what you need, when you need it, so you can help keep budgets balanced and lines moving. Call 1-800-GRanger, click Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 0:43Speaker 03

  911 Nashville returns.

• 0:45Speaker 04

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 0:47Alec Baldwin?

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 0:48Speaker 03

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 0:51Alec Baldwin?

  All sins swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 0:54Speaker 04

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 0:55Alec Baldwin?

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 0:58Speaker 03

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:05Speaker 03

  Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything, because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:36Speaker 06

  Are you struggling with symptoms of chronic hives with no known external triggers? Living with chronic spontaneous urticaria, or CSU, can be frustrating, especially when symptoms last months or even years. CSU is a long-term condition that often requires ongoing treatment. Rapsodo, remabrutinib, is an oral prescription treatment that's taken twice daily with or without food for adults with CSU who continue to have symptoms not controlled with antihistamines. It should not be used for any other forms of hives. Rapsodo may cause bleeding and risk may increase if also taking a blood thinner. So tell your doctor right away if you have any signs or symptoms. Also discuss immunizations, as you should not receive live or live attenuated vaccines with Rapsodo. Side effects include

• 2:19Speaker 06

  nasal congestion, sore throat, runny nose, bleeding, headache, nausea, and abdominal pain. When antihistamines alone aren't enough, it may be time to ask your doctor about Rapsodo. To learn more, visit rapsodo.com or call 87 Rapsodo. That's 877-427-7436.

• 2:37Alec Baldwin?

  This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing from iHeart Radio. It's summer, and that means it's time for our tradition at Here's the Thing, where the staff share their favorite episodes from our archives in our Summer Staff Picks series. Next up is my own. Here's my 2017 conversation with John Anderson from Yes.

• 3:41Alec Baldwin?

  There are many words that can be used to describe singer-songwriter John Anderson. "Cautious" is not one of them. Born in England in 1944, he began singing on his brother's daily route as a milkman before falling in love with rock and roll. Adventurous, scrappy, and spiritual, he formed an instant bond with bassist Chris Squire in 1968, and after a short stint with another band, the two formed Yes.

• 4:17Alec Baldwin?

  Like Anderson himself, their music was otherworldly, bucking convention in both structure and sound. Their songs were a dynamic mix of jazz and rock that could last for as long as 20 minutes, and their concerts sold out stadiums worldwide. By the 1980s, the band had produced more than 11 critically acclaimed albums. Their music ushered in what's known today as progressive rock, paving the way for bands like Radiohead. And the English native is still testing the boundaries of music, just like he did as a kid.

• 4:53Speaker 06

  You know, I started singing when I was at school in the choir, and I was told to shut up, Anderson, not so loud. And I kind of calmed down a bit, because I used to love shouting and singing, you know, choir, you know, they do that. And then me and my brother, Tony, we used to sing all the Everly Brothers' songs, and I was the high harmony. And I just loved singing. And then we started a band called The Warriors in 63. And in April 63, my brother had a motorbike, and he drove, me and him, went to Southport, which is just north of Liverpool, to see this band called The Beatles. And they just released Love Me Do, 63 April. And from then on, I wanted to be Paul McCartney, of course. And you

• 5:38Speaker 06

  start singing in a band. And basically, when you start off with a band, you have to sing all different kinds of songs, from Jotex to Nina Simone songs.

• 5:47Alec Baldwin?

  Covers.

• 5:48Speaker 06

  Covers, you know. And your voice, you're singing it. I actually remember, remember, I used to sing Goldfinger. It was a big hit in England by Shirley Bassey.

• 5:57Alec Baldwin?

  Sure.

• 5:58Speaker 06

  It was from Wales. And the review was, "We found the Shirley Bassey of rock and roll."

• 6:05Alec Baldwin?

  That's gonna be our tweet.

• 6:06Speaker 06

  Freaked me out.

• 6:06Alec Baldwin?

  Listen to my interview with the Shirley Bassey of rock and roll.

• 6:10Speaker 06

  And I just kept singing and enjoying singing and went through the 60s with the band, and then went to London, eventually meeting up with Chris. And I knew that I could sing, and I was very interested in songwriting. I'd never written any songs. I'd maybe written one or two terrible songs. But with Chris, I could sort of sit there and just work ideas out with him. And singing with Yes when it first started, I didn't move. I was very still on stage and stoned, of course, and just happy doing it. Didn't realize until I recorded that I had such a bad voice.

• 6:49Alec Baldwin?

  But why do you say that?

• 6:50Speaker 06

  Well, you start listening to yourself for the first time through the speakers and everything.

• 6:54Alec Baldwin?

  When you're recording, everything changes.

• 6:55Speaker 06

  Yeah, recording the first album, you know, and I think, "Oh, my gosh, it's sort of pretty boring."

• 7:02Alec Baldwin?

  But that's interesting for people who don't know that when you're doing club work and you're performing live.

• 7:07Speaker 06

  Well, you think you're happening.

• 7:07Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, yeah, everybody's jumping in and out, but they're all drunk, so what do they know? You sound great.

• 7:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:12Alec Baldwin?

  Then. And then you get into a studio and things change. And what I'm also curious about is, when you're singing covers, and your very signature voice, which pitches high, is singing these other songs, where does that music come from, which is so unique?

• 7:26Speaker 06

  You know, we weren't from the same town, the band itself. It was from different towns in England. Normally, like The Hollies, The Beatles, all the bands, The Animals, they came from Newcastle. The Hollies were from Manchester. The Beatles from Liverpool. Everybody, little tight group of friends, you know. Well, we weren't. We were in London, and Bill Brewford was from Seven Oaks down the road. He was, he actually, he left the band after a month because he wanted to go, his parents said he had to be a lawyer. So we'd been rehearsing as a band for a month, and Bill said, "I'm leaving." I said, "Wait a minute, we've just started." So the strange story was that Bill went to Leeds University, and

• 8:08Speaker 06

  two months later, we played there. And he sat, he stood in the audience, looking sort of eyes at the band, thinking, "This is really a great band. What am I doing here in university?" And within two weeks, he was back in the band. But the idea is that, you know, you start, when I met Chris, it was like, "I've got to learn about writing songs." So I started playing the guitar.

• 8:32Alec Baldwin?

  You had not been writing songs.

• 8:34Speaker 06

  No, no.

• 8:34Alec Baldwin?

  You didn't know how to read music?

• 8:36Speaker 06

  No, no. The great thing was, because both Tony K. and the early days, they were very interested in what I had to say. And so I just had, you know, all these ideas, musical ideas. I'd say, "Okay, somebody," I think it was Peter Banks, he was playing

• 8:56Speaker 06

  on his guitar, just messing around, you know. I said, "That's it. We're going to do America." So we did a version of "America" that day.

• 9:04Alec Baldwin?

  From West Side Story?

• 9:05Speaker 06

  West Side Story.

• 9:06Alec Baldwin?

  Bernstein.

• 9:06Speaker 06

  Can't beat it, you know, and...

• 9:08Alec Baldwin?

  Very popular back then.

• 9:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, and you'd take it on stage, and it gets the audience going, you know. So in those early days, it was like, "Well, what should we do next, John?" "Well, I've got this idea. I really like Stravinsky," you know, sort of thing, you know. And I'd start coming up with ideas on the guitar that, you know, Peter Banks would say, "You can't play that chord." And I'd say, "Well, I just did, and it sounds pretty good." Whatever, you know.

• 9:37Alec Baldwin?

  So you, as a non-guitar player.

• 9:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 9:39Alec Baldwin?

  Really take risks that the studied guitar players were saying to you, "You can't do that."

• 9:43Speaker 06

  Yeah, because like, you know, it's just one of those things. You do it, and then you start realizing, you go home and start trying other ideas.

• 9:50Alec Baldwin?

  How long did it take you to learn, to teach yourself the guitar?

• 9:53Speaker 06

  I'm still learning. It's true. It's just an ongoing, and I don't know what I'm playing. You know, I'm playing chords the other day. I'm going, "Oh, this is a beautiful chord." I wish I knew what it was, but it sounds really good.

• 10:03Alec Baldwin?

  Of course, I could remember that.

• 10:04Speaker 06

  I do. I tape everything and we remember. In fact, you start doing music that you wrote maybe five, 10 years ago. You find a cassette and go, "Oh, yeah, I never finished that. I'll try that now." You know, maybe I wasn't ready then. Now I am, you know. And so in a leap, we got Steve Howe in the band, which was like, oh, man, it was amazing, because this guy could play classical music on guitar, as well as...

• 10:29Alec Baldwin?

  Stravinsky.

• 10:30Speaker 06

  Yeah, great rock and roll, you know.

• 10:33Speaker 06

  And we started writing songs together and

• 10:35Alec Baldwin?

  How did that work?

• 10:36Speaker 06

  Well, generally, um, I'd listen to what they were doing in rehearsal, making a lot of noise.

• 10:42Alec Baldwin?

  In the studio, we were recording everything.

• 10:43Speaker 06

  And I'd hear Steve playing something and I'd quickly record it and then we'd just stop and I said, "Listen, you played this line."

• 10:56Speaker 06

  "What is that?" And he said, "I don't know, I was just jamming." I said, "No, can you play it again?"

• 11:03Speaker 06

  "Okay, and then we're going to..." And we'd keep going there, "Bring it up again." "Nanuki, modulate." So my, my position in the band was waving bands around a lot and hoping they would understand what was

• 11:17Alec Baldwin?

  You're conducting?

• 11:18Speaker 06

  Yeah. And then, you know, as, as time moved along, Rick Wakeman came into the band and it was like, so incredible.

• 11:26Alec Baldwin?

  Who was the most accomplished musically in terms of reading music, writing music? Rick was the one who wrote music.

• 11:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, ridiculous. And the neat thing was that you were saying why the music came is because Bill Bruford was a jazz player, jazz rock. And him and Chris together, you know, those early tapes, those early recordings are just fantastic, the BBC recordings. And you hear him and Chris rocking away, you know, but it's slightly different than just

• 11:58Speaker 06

  There's something going on with his, with his shoulders, Bill, you know, he's, he's going around, you know? And so when, when we'd sort of put together a song, I'd feel like, I think there's something else to happen, you know, maybe Bill and Chris just do a groove thing, you know, and then we'll, Steve, if you can do like, get your Sly guitar out.

• 12:20Alec Baldwin?

  What's the first song you record?

• 12:22Speaker 06

  Probably "Yesterday and Today."

• 12:29Speaker 06

  I heard it the other day, that's terrible.

• 12:32Alec Baldwin?

  Is it really?

• 12:33Speaker 06

  Well, it's, you know, the album didn't do well. Second album just about didn't do well either. And the third album, we all went to, uh, I wanted to get away from London, so I said, "Why don't we get a farm down in Devon?" You know, so we rented a farm in Devon, a farmhouse, and got all the equipment there and stayed there for a month, six weeks. And that's when "Yours Is No Disgrace" came and eventually "Fragile," but it was like, it's very important to sort of isolate ourselves away from the, the getting to rehearsals in a big city can take forever, you know? So, living together and being together sort of created a harmony. And one of the things I've learned is that, with harmony, and you know this in acting,

• 13:17Speaker 06

  if you have perfect harmony, anything can happen.

• 13:19Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 13:20Speaker 06

  It's incredible.

• 13:21Alec Baldwin?

  If you can get there, it's beautiful. It feels so good, too.

• 13:23Speaker 06

  Yeah, and it's rare, it's, it's not something that happens all the time. Here's like a clue to why I think Yes worked in, in so many ways, is that up until then, the bands would go on stage, sing a song, the solo guitar player would solo and then in the chorus again, and then a solo and boom, finished. I just didn't like that, because you never know how good you're gonna be as a solo guitar player if you've had too many drinks. You know, so you're great one night and then the next night, what the hell was he thinking?

• 13:53Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 13:54Speaker 06

  So I said to Steve, especially Steve, he was very willing to understand, that if you create a solo in rehearsal, record it, learn it, then your solo will always be the same. And then you can bounce and dance around it.

• 14:12Speaker 06

  And the same with everybody who played in the band, you know, I'd say, "Let's get it," I called it structuring, structure the music. Make sure you know exactly what you're gonna play on. And the interesting thing is, Chris, bless him, was the main guy who stuck to that. He was a beautiful bass player, listened to his bass work, incredible. And generally, um, when you learn the art of the structure, you take that on stage and it can be 11 minutes long, 10 minutes long, you can stretch it a couple of minutes, but take for granted what you've already created and know that it worked.

• 14:47Alec Baldwin?

  Stick with it.

• 14:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 14:48Alec Baldwin?

  But you listen to your music, I mean, I, I mean, I, I close my eyes and then I roll your music in my head and it's so complicated compared to everything else that was coming. I mean, there was the Beatles deep in their work.

• 14:59Speaker 06

  True.

• 15:00Alec Baldwin?

  And you listen to your music, you talk about "Yours Is No Disgrace," and it's like, all those fractures and all that.

• 15:10Alec Baldwin?

  And this is so dramatic.

• 15:12Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:12Alec Baldwin?

  It's these surges, it's like water splashing against the seawall, it's so violent sometimes. Whose concept was this of music? Who said, "This is what we're gonna do"?

• 15:23Speaker 06

  What were you smoking?

• 15:24Alec Baldwin?

  I was smoking a lot of stuff, man, you know?

• 15:27Speaker 06

  No, I, I, I agree in some ways, it's like, you, you create this music and you, and you go on stage and, and perform it and, and it takes over. It's as though we've created something that's a little bit unique and we've got to make sure it's good. I remember the first time we performed "Close to the Edge," it seemed like about an hour.

• 15:48Speaker 06

  It's about 18 minutes.

• 15:49Alec Baldwin?

  Exactly, I was gonna say, it's about 18 minutes.

• 15:51Speaker 06

  Because the audience was so quiet, "What's going on, what's going on?"

• 15:53Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 15:53Speaker 06

  And it was at a gig with, you know, Elton John was top of the bill, my Vishnu Orchestra and us, and we did "Close to the Edge." It was like, you could hear the crickets.

• 16:01Alec Baldwin?

  Really?

• 16:01Speaker 06

  Saying, "Enough already."

• 16:03Alec Baldwin?

  But, but when you do that, is it hard to replicate it?

• 16:05Speaker 06

  No.

• 16:06Alec Baldwin?

  You'd go out there, or it wasn't hard to replicate it?

• 16:08Speaker 06

  No, because you know what you've got to do, it took a month for it to kick in. So by the time we came to tour America with "Close to the Edge" as a song, we'd already played it 20 times.

• 16:18Alec Baldwin?

  But did you need sheet music on stage to play it?

• 16:20Speaker 06

  No, no, no, no.

• 16:20Alec Baldwin?

  How does the, the band remember 18 minutes of all those changes?

• 16:23Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 16:24Alec Baldwin?

  They were just into it?

• 16:25Speaker 06

  Well, I think, you know, musicians in the last, you know, 50 years have concentrated on this new exercise of a brain sort of module, you know? I, I'm always amazed, you know, Trevor Rayman, our, our guitar player, he can do scores and, and he can hear all the music, just like Amadeus, you know, like, it freaks me out because I'd love to be able to do that.

• 16:47Alec Baldwin?

  He's a savant, that way?

• 16:48Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:49Alec Baldwin?

  When you would perform live, was there a process you had about your voice? Was there some kind of technique you had in terms of you didn't smoke and you didn't eat certain kinds of food?

• 16:58Speaker 06

  You know, we went vegetarian very early on and we, you know, before there were any vegetarian restaurants in America. So we'd, we'd find one in New York maybe, and one in Boston, and one in Seattle, something like that.

• 17:09Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 17:10Speaker 06

  And we kind of restricted ourselves from doing the norm, which is just, you know, going for the burgers and stuff. I, I was just on stage and saying, "You should all stop eating McDonald's."

• 17:22Alec Baldwin?

  Right. So for you, that what you didn't feel, because your, your, your voice is so, I mean, it really sounds like an instrument, I'm not just saying this.

• 17:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 17:29Alec Baldwin?

  There was no special thing you had to do? You just blew it out and it was there?

• 17:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 17:33Alec Baldwin?

  In your pocket every time you needed it?

• 17:34Speaker 06

  I, I just felt very blessed that I could sing and I was actually going through this incredible journey. You know, it was like, not many people get the chance to be successful in their work, you know?

• 17:43Alec Baldwin?

  What's your first big date?

• 17:45Speaker 06

  We all lived in this little house, we all had a different floor of the house. Uh, Peter Banks lived in Barnet, which is North London. I got a phone call from a friend, he says, "Can you do a show tonight at Speakeasy? Most famous club in town, yeah." "Yeah, what time are we gonna be there?" "10 o'clock." "Why?" "Because you gotta be there, man, okay." So I called Peter, "Come on, we've got to go and do a gig, get everything together, get the drums together, get in the van, come on, let's go." So we went to the Speakeys and we started setting up and then we found out the reason we were there is because Sly and the Family Stone had got stopped in New Jersey and he couldn't get on the plane. Whatever, for whatever reason, you know?

• 18:24Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 06

  And I, I was working at that time in a bar above the Marquee Club, a very famous club in London, so I kept bumping into Keith Emerson because he was playing in Nice and I kept, I actually bumped into two or three other Pete Townsend and that kind of thing. I never said hello. And, uh, so there we were, setting up microphones and they start walking in, you know? There's Keith, "Hi Keith." "Oh, John, what are you doing?" "So we're, we're doing a show, what does it look like, you know? Well, what's happened to Sly?" He says, "Here." And I started passing the joint to him, "Ras, did you have a smoke?" "Calm down." So by the time we went on, everybody was happily drunk and stoned or whatever, and this, I think, uh, there was, I think Paul McCartney was there, I'm not sure.

• 19:06Speaker 06

  But there's one or two, there's a lot of very famous people there and we put on the show of our life, you know?

• 19:11Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 19:11Speaker 06

  We'd only been together for two months.

• 19:13Alec Baldwin?

  They came expecting Sly and you came out?

• 19:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 19:15Alec Baldwin?

  And you won them over?

• 19:16Speaker 06

  We did it. "Come on, guys, rock and roll," you know? Twist and shout.

• 19:20Alec Baldwin?

  And you came off the stage and?

• 19:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, well, the manager of the club said, "I want to manage you." And within a month, he got us a gig, opening for the Queen farewell concert. So we opened it, Rory Gallagher at the Albert Hall. So Rory Gallagher was on second and the Queen came on at the end, it was like, "Oh, God." You know, the funny thing, going back to Bill Bruford was in Leeds University and we found out we were gonna play the, this gig at the Albert Hall. So I said, "Bill, you want to rejoin the band?" He said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, in two weeks we're playing at the Albert Hall, be there." And he was.

• 20:00Speaker 06

  Life is like strange, isn't it?

• 20:01Alec Baldwin?

  And then when, when the recording contract was with who? You signed with who?

• 20:04Speaker 06

  Oh, that was silly. I'm Ertyland, God bless him.

• 20:07Alec Baldwin?

  And he found you where?

• 20:08Speaker 06

  In London, he came to see us, we did a lunchtime, half an hour for him.

• 20:13Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, he had you almost like auditioned for him?

• 20:15Speaker 06

  Auditioned, that's right.

• 20:15Alec Baldwin?

  And, and what year was this?

• 20:18Speaker 06

  68?

• 20:18Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 20:19Speaker 06

  Early 69, maybe. Our manager at that time was the Speakeys manager, sweetest guy in the world, but he just, you know, he enjoyed a drink. And, uh, he was drunk. It was 1 o'clock in the afternoon, you know? And so we, we did our little sort of audition and, uh, I thought I gotta go to the toilet, so I went to the toilet and Roy comes in, stands next to me, we're having a pee, you know? And he says, "I'm gonna get this bastard, this American bastard, I'm gonna make sure you got the best contract ever, ever in the world." And at that moment, the toilet flushed.

• 20:53Alec Baldwin?

  And he's in the other store?

• 20:57Alec Baldwin?

  Did he get you the best contract from this American bastard?

• 21:00Speaker 06

  He signed us up for ten years.

• 21:02Alec Baldwin?

  For ten years.

• 21:04Speaker 06

  Like two points.

• 21:05Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, God.

• 21:06Speaker 06

  Arm, it was very cool, because, you know, the second album didn't do too well. The third album was the Yes album was OK.

• 21:12Alec Baldwin?

  It was fragile.

• 21:13Speaker 06

  And then fourth album was fragile.

• 21:15Alec Baldwin?

  But when you signed with Ertigan, you had not been recording for anybody else. This was the beginning of your recording contract. So you do album number one, meh. You do album number two, meh. Number three, maybe, and then four hits.

• 21:25Speaker 06

  Four hits. Well, the thing was, Roundabout was eight minutes long. It was a staged song, you know, the idea. I think one of the things I've always been interested in is putting on a show. And probably comes from my dad, because he was a showman in the Army at the time.

• 21:42Alec Baldwin?

  What did he do?

• 21:43Speaker 06

  All I can remember, I was in a stroller, and he was on stage in a kilt. He's Scottish. He was on stage in a kilt and a Hitler mustache.

• 21:52Alec Baldwin?

  No.

• 21:53Speaker 06

  Telling jokes. And I think he played the harmonica.

• 21:56Alec Baldwin?

  He was a Scottish Nazi harmonica player. Man, that's, I'm sorry, I missed that. Were you close with him?

• 22:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, sort of. He got very old, very early on in his life.

• 22:06Alec Baldwin?

  He died when he was how old?

• 22:08Speaker 06

  Fifty-four.

• 22:09Alec Baldwin?

  And you were how old?

• 22:11Speaker 06

  He got me there at twenty-four.

• 22:12Alec Baldwin?

  My dad died when I was twenty-six. My dad died young, he was fifty-five, too.

• 22:16Speaker 06

  I was able to see him at the end, give him a good hug and say, thanks.

• 22:19Alec Baldwin?

  Are either of your siblings musical?

• 22:21Speaker 06

  Oh, gosh, yeah, my brother Tony, because we started off as the Everly Brothers of Accrington.

• 22:28Alec Baldwin?

  So he's a performer?

• 22:29Speaker 06

  No, he's a preacher, actually, and he sings.

• 22:32Alec Baldwin?

  So he's a performer?

• 22:33Speaker 06

  God songs, yes, of course he is.

• 22:35Alec Baldwin?

  I'm curious about, for people who, you know, don't completely understand this like myself. You do an album, Ertigan signs you, and the first album doesn't work, and the second album doesn't work, and the third album, maybe they're all growing, and he sees something, because how do you get to do the eight-minute, Roundabout is on fragile, the fourth album? So when you say to Ertigan, we're going to do an eight-minute piece, does he sit you down and go, fellas, fellas, fellas? You haven't earned the right to do an eight-minute piece.

• 22:58Speaker 06

  No, he sent somebody in, I remember very vividly, it was, um, gosh, I can't remember his name, a very famous producer came to London, and we're doing, um...

• 23:14Speaker 06

  And the guy's there, sitting there and saying, why don't you put a funky bass in there? I said, no, it's supposed to go...

• 23:27Speaker 06

  And that's what it is, is your move, actually, it was.

• 23:30Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, of course.

• 23:31Speaker 06

  Your move. And he said...

• 23:34Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 06

  No.

• 23:36Alec Baldwin?

  Smash him, might as well smash your guitar on stage at the beginning of that one, yeah.

• 23:40Speaker 06

  No, we just didn't do it. We just said, I said, I'm sorry, I like you very much, but I don't want it to be that way.

• 23:46Alec Baldwin?

  Is Roundabout the first hit?

• 23:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, because somebody got some scissors out and didn't tell us. I know.

• 23:52Alec Baldwin?

  Was that in your contract that they could do that?

• 23:54Speaker 06

  Of course.

• 23:55Alec Baldwin?

  They could, they could...

• 23:56Speaker 06

  They had a firstborn.

• 23:57Alec Baldwin?

  Right, right. So they cut Roundabout, from what to what?

• 24:00Speaker 06

  Well, they just took out the whole middle section. So it goes from the end of the second, third verse, or third chorus, second chorus, whatever, straight into the solo. And we were driving around Pittsburgh to a gig, and it would turn on the radio, and it's Roundabout. We said, Roundabout's on the radio. We couldn't believe it. And then it went straight into the solo.

• 24:21Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 24:22Speaker 06

  We went, "What the hell? We'll charge the view."

• 24:26Alec Baldwin?

  I mean, I know I'm kind of getting carried away here with you, because I'm so excited that I'm actually talking to you. But, you know, Yes Songs is really one of the greatest live albums ever. I mean, if you're a Yes fan, and you dig that music, you guys just crushed it, you know, did you feel, did you know that when you recorded that?

• 24:43Speaker 06

  Not really, no. I just knew we were sort of getting into the pocket, what I learned later, the pocket is when it just happens and music takes over. And that was one of those shows. I think we did about four in a row, and we recorded one of them. And, uh, I don't know, I, I, going back to George Martin, you know, I'd listen to what he did with four tracks, and wonder why we're not as something. When you hear us play live, what's wrong? I've always been like that. I'm terrible.

• 25:15Alec Baldwin?

  Critical, very self-critical?

• 25:16Speaker 06

  Yeah. And in a good way.

• 25:18Alec Baldwin?

  Did you drive the other band members crazy with their self-criticism?

• 25:20Speaker 06

  Yeah. They called me Napoleon.

• 25:22Alec Baldwin?

  They did?

• 25:23Speaker 06

  Yes, on the quiet.

• 25:24Alec Baldwin?

  Do you agree that a band needs an external source of management in order to really function? Or did you kind of function as a manager of your own band?

• 25:33Speaker 06

  Well, we stopped using a producer after the third album. So we were producing ourselves with a very good engineer called Eddie Offord, who was brilliant.

• 25:41Alec Baldwin?

  How did that work for you with self-producing?

• 25:43Speaker 06

  Brilliant.

• 25:44Alec Baldwin?

  You think so?

• 25:44Speaker 06

  There's a great photograph of everybody on the levers.

• 25:49Alec Baldwin?

  You've got their own sets?

• 25:50Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 25:52Alec Baldwin?

  I think we should do this.

• 25:53Speaker 06

  Yeah. And it's just the idea of trusting, you know, trust is everything in music. You've got to trust everybody to want the same thing, even though we're not quite sure what it is yet.

• 26:04Alec Baldwin?

  But did you feel you were in charge?

• 26:06Speaker 06

  Yeah. Well, I wasn't, I, I, I used to say to Chris, because Chris always used to look at me and say, I just want to make you happy, John. I said, yeah, I'm not trying to boss everybody around, I just want to make it work. And somebody's got to come up, if you come up with ideas...

• 26:19Alec Baldwin?

  Someone has to decide.

• 26:20Speaker 06

  Yeah, if you come up with ideas, I'll follow it through, but it tends to happen, somebody tends to be more of an idea person. And I was into that, you know, like with reading Herman Hesse and thinking, I really want to do something a little bit more experimental and long-form. Steve, come here, man. Can you play some chords like this? And he played them, and I said, OK. And he'd say, I've got this, I've got this thing, it goes, "Close to the edge, round by the corner." And I'd sing, "Down at the end, round by the river." What do you like? "Seasons will pass you by." And I'm going to go, "I get a chord, a chord, a chord."

• 27:05Speaker 06

  I need some chords there, you know, and Steve would be...

• 27:08Alec Baldwin?

  You'd hear you talk it through, you know? And then when you listen to the music, it's like it's something in a church.

• 27:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, true. And, you know, it's like, subconsciously, I'd be chords, I need to play perfect chords. And I said, that's it, record it, next part.

• 27:22Alec Baldwin?

  Did you interact with Wakeman the same way? Did he go with you?

• 27:26Speaker 06

  It took a while with Rick, because Rick was, um, very fast at just coming up with stuff. I didn't really, now and again, I'd hear something, Rick, you just played something, I need that, please, and he'd say, what is this one? Oh, yeah, I need that.

• 27:41Speaker 06

  Whatever it was. And, you know, you go through these emotions in the studio of really listening to everybody, making sure that they are in a good place to perform well. You know, it's part of the routine of being buddies, musical brothers, if you like, you know?

• 28:50Alec Baldwin?

  Coming up, John Anderson explains why Paul McCartney was his inspiration for taking drugs. While Yes was rocking the UK, the self-described cussing Christian behind Grand Funk Railroad was lighting up America.

• 29:06Speaker 04

  The word from the Atlanta Pop Festival. You know, we opened, uh, noon the first day. They liked us so well, they moved us to seven o'clock the second day. And then the third day, we were on at eleven o'clock, under the lights.

• 29:22Alec Baldwin?

  They're the people that they're waiting for now. Yeah. To hear more about Mark Farner's story, go to here'sthething.org.

• 29:33Speaker 02

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 29:40Speaker 03

  911 Nashville returns. What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Oh, sin swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu. OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star Trust Pilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com.

• 30:22Speaker 03

  Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today to help find a home that fits where you are in life, or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be.

• 30:43Speaker 06

  Zillow has the right to help.

• 30:44Speaker 06

  Write information, tools and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started. Hola a todos. Soy Jamie Lynn Segler. Cuando me diagnosticaron tenía veintitantos años y todo mi mundo cambió por completo. Pero con el tiempo decidí que no iba a permitir que eso frenara mi vida. Quise tomar las riendas y después de hablar con mi médico sobre mis opciones, la elección para mí fue obvia. Boom, eso es KISSIMTA. Obtenga más información sobre KISSIMTA o Fotumamab en kissimta.com.

• 31:27Alec Baldwin?

  This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Nicknamed Napoleon, English singer-songwriter John Anderson constantly pushed his bandmates to experiment further. Considering that Yes sold more than 50 million albums in his time with them, it worked. But although Anderson's adventurous spirit played a role in propelling them forward, there were other factors too, namely, competition.

• 31:53Speaker 06

  We did Close to the Edge. And if there was ever a rival band that I kind of watched and listened to was a band called King Crimson.

• 32:02Alec Baldwin?

  Really?

• 32:03Speaker 06

  Because I'd heard about them. And me and Chris went to see them at Speakeasy. This is like 1970, I think, maybe late 69. And they performed their whole first album. And it was, it was just so incredibly good. They performed it vocals, it was in the chord of the Crimson King. And I looked at Chris and said, "We've got to practice more, guys." It's terrible.

• 32:29Alec Baldwin?

  You're very competitive.

• 32:31Speaker 06

  I went, "Pfft."

• 32:32Alec Baldwin?

  Really?

• 32:33Speaker 06

  So we did-

• 32:34Alec Baldwin?

  You imploded.

• 32:35Speaker 06

  I know. Then we went to Close to the Edge and I thought we'd opened this door. Musically speaking, we'd found this ism. It's a yes-ism. It's something that every note is known to the band. We know every ink-

• 32:49Alec Baldwin?

  You're there, you're there.

• 32:51Speaker 06

  And to perform it was going to be amazing. And then Bill said, "I'm leaving the band." About two weeks after we finished it.

• 32:59Alec Baldwin?

  Close to the Edge?

• 33:00Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 33:01Alec Baldwin?

  Now, why?

• 33:02Speaker 06

  He wanted to join King Crimson.

• 33:03Alec Baldwin?

  Really?

• 33:04Speaker 06

  And he did.

• 33:05Alec Baldwin?

  Really?

• 33:06Speaker 06

  And it broke my heart.

• 33:07Alec Baldwin?

  And what was that like for you?

• 33:08Speaker 06

  Well, I thought we'd-

• 33:09Alec Baldwin?

  You guys are at the crest of the wave here.

• 33:10Speaker 06

  We'd just done this piece of music that meant we are now free to do and create what we want.

• 33:16Alec Baldwin?

  We're just as good as King Crimson.

• 33:17Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 33:18Alec Baldwin?

  But when you feel you're just as good as King Crimson-

• 33:20Speaker 06

  Well, different.

• 33:21Alec Baldwin?

  You're different. Is that what he wanted was different?

• 33:23Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. He just said, "Making the album was great, John, but I'm just not comfortable with Chris wanting this and me wanting that." And we're... See, I used to say, "I always think the beat starts with the bass drum, bass, and everything evolves from there." Chris would say, "No, the bass is the beat." So there's that argument going on with Bill. And basically, he went to Crimson and I actually saw their first gig. It was a band that changed the name to Discipline. It was an album called Discipline with King Crimson. And it was remarkable to watch because he had Bill Bruford on stage with a little kit right at the front of the stage. Guitar player, I forgot his name for now, keyboard player, another guitar player, and

• 34:08Speaker 06

  this guy called Jamie Muir, who was like a percussionist. And he looked like a wild man from Borni. He had long, black hair and he had this sort of black woolly shoulder thing. It made him look a very skinny ape. And what he would do, which was kind of interesting, he had sort of gongs in his hand and he'd bang them on the floor and your microphones. So he had this band. And this guy was jumping up against pieces of metal, large-scale pieces of metal to make the microphones on there. So there's incredible co-phony of energy going around the band, which is very tight, right? And I couldn't believe him.

• 34:50Speaker 06

  And I went to Bill Bruford's wedding and there was Jamie Muir. And I said, "Jamie, what are you, what, what, what are you doing?"

• 35:00Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 35:01Speaker 06

  And he said, "Wait there." And he went off and he came back with a book. And it was the autobiography of a yogi by Yogananda. And he just gave it to me, he didn't say anything else. And that changed my life.

• 35:12Alec Baldwin?

  How so?

• 35:13Speaker 06

  It's a very clear understanding that all religions are the same and all rivers go to the same ocean and divine, divine energy is all around us all the time.

• 35:22Alec Baldwin?

  This is after-

• 35:23Speaker 06

  Close to the Edge.

• 35:24Alec Baldwin?

  Close to the Edge.

• 35:25Speaker 06

  We finished Close to the Edge. And Close to the Edge was like, to me, a very concept album in itself, and you and I.

• 35:32Alec Baldwin?

  You finish Close to the Edge, Bruford leaves, you go to his wedding, you meet Jamie, he gives you the autobiography of a yogi. And who replaced Bruford immediately at that time?

• 35:44Speaker 06

  Alan White.

• 35:45Alec Baldwin?

  Alan White. So the next album after Close to the Edge is?

• 35:47Speaker 06

  Then we went into topographic world of craziness, you know?

• 35:51Alec Baldwin?

  Why do you say that?

• 35:53Speaker 06

  Because, well, it's such a, you know, what's the word? It's such an incredible moment in my life, anyway.

• 36:00Alec Baldwin?

  Why?

• 36:01Speaker 06

  Well, because, you know, some joker in a newspaper said, "Close to the Edge, yeah, the next thing I'm going to do is the Bible to music." And I thought, "Yeah."

• 36:10Alec Baldwin?

  It's a bad idea.

• 36:12Speaker 06

  Bad idea.

• 36:13Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, let's do that.

• 36:14Speaker 06

  And so I got the book and I was on a trip to Japan with the band, with Alan and everything and Steve. And I read in the bottom of the book, these four energies that create almost everything is the revealing of everything, the remembering of everything, the ancient, and the ritual of life, you know? And I thought, "That's it." With the four movements, you know? So I sort of jumped on Steve, who was perfect for it, you know?

• 36:43Alec Baldwin?

  Why?

• 36:44Speaker 06

  Well, because he's very receptive and very-

• 36:46Alec Baldwin?

  He was ready to go with you?

• 36:47Speaker 06

  Yeah, very quick to learn.

• 36:48Alec Baldwin?

  Did he read the book?

• 36:49Speaker 06

  Do you know, I don't know.

• 36:51Alec Baldwin?

  Did you give all of them the book and say, "This is required reading before you start the album"?

• 36:54Speaker 06

  I just knew that if you're going to go anywhere, why don't you just jump in the deep end, you know?

• 36:58Alec Baldwin?

  So when you head toward Tails, when you go to, as you were saying, this topographic madness-

• 37:03Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 37:04Alec Baldwin?

  How were they changing the other ones in the band? Do you sense, are they all on this journey and kind of getting into it with you and getting high with you? Or are some of them sitting there looking at their watch going, "How much more of this revealing science of God?" And wait a second, is this cat really going to do the Bible next? Where are we going with this guy? Was it all kind of cool or...

• 37:21Speaker 06

  Well, most of the time, me, Steve, and Alan, and then Chris on a level were very there. Rick was finding his own sort of pathway. He'd started writing some music about King Arthur or Henry VIII and stuff and that. And that was sort of, you could sense when he came in, he was, he was thinking of other stuff.

• 37:44Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 37:45Speaker 06

  So it was like, lovely guy, but still a young guy. He was still young, he was very young when he joined the band. And so I was sort of headlong into this thing. Nobody can dissuade me at all, we're going there. That's all there is to it. It's going to be great.

• 38:01Alec Baldwin?

  What is it about you that makes you so driven that way? I mean, you seem, you have an almost Ahab-like quest-

• 38:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 38:08Alec Baldwin?

  -to synthesize what you're thinking, feeling, dreaming, believing into the music you're doing, regardless of the cost.

• 38:14Speaker 06

  Right.

• 38:15Alec Baldwin?

  Do you know why? You're so self-examining, I would think. Why?

• 38:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'm just so grateful, I suppose.

• 38:20Alec Baldwin?

  You just enjoy the journey?

• 38:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'm so thankful. There was a certain point in time when I was very lost on heavy drugs and stuff in the early, mid of the 60s.

• 38:32Alec Baldwin?

  Have you talked about that publicly?

• 38:34Speaker 06

  I don't remember.

• 38:35Alec Baldwin?

  Did you do that because it was for free and for fun and silly and funny and then it got to be, it makes you sick kind of? And then, how do you see it now in perspective?

• 38:43Speaker 06

  What's that?

• 38:44Alec Baldwin?

  Your drug experience was what?

• 38:46Speaker 06

  It was great.

• 38:48Alec Baldwin?

  An unabashed endorsement.

• 38:52Speaker 06

  Daily Mirror, front page, Paul McCartney, Too Gassed It. I said, "That's it, I could do this."

• 38:57Alec Baldwin?

  There you go.

• 38:58Speaker 06

  That was my key.

• 38:59Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, he's the blame.

• 39:00Speaker 06

  He did it.

• 39:01Alec Baldwin?

  He led you down that path.

• 39:02Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 39:03Alec Baldwin?

  The guy that sings "Love Me Do."

• 39:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:05Alec Baldwin?

  Let's do that.

• 39:06Speaker 06

  My God. All you need is love.

• 39:08Alec Baldwin?

  All you need is love.

• 39:09Speaker 06

  Krishna, my God.

• 39:10Alec Baldwin?

  So Tails comes out. No, no, no, Fragile is a hit.

• 39:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:14Alec Baldwin?

  And Close to the Edge is a hit.

• 39:15Speaker 06

  Big hit, yeah.

• 39:16Alec Baldwin?

  And you guys are really rolling and steaming. And what is the tour situation like now? You're big stadiums, big places.

• 39:22Speaker 06

  Fairly, no.

• 39:23Alec Baldwin?

  And you guys can fill a big room.

• 39:24Speaker 06

  No, not, you know, I think we did three nights at Madison Square and, you know-

• 39:28Alec Baldwin?

  Did you enjoy that?

• 39:29Speaker 06

  Yeah. It was like a very dream sequence, sort of looking back. You just remember it as being, "Wow, I've got to get on stage, I've got to know what I'm doing. Don't worry about it. Look for the furthest people away and wave to them because you don't want to just play to the 20 people in front row."

• 39:46Alec Baldwin?

  You sound like Mark Farner.

• 39:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, you've got to play, you've got to play to everybody, you know, you've got to-

• 39:51Alec Baldwin?

  Mark Farner told us he tore his clothes off because he wanted the people in the back row to pay attention to him. He ripped all his clothes off. Down to it was like a little speedo, you know?

• 39:58Speaker 06

  Oh, no.

• 39:59Alec Baldwin?

  From Grand Funk Railroad, yeah. But when you also are doing this, regardless of the size, but I'm assuming particularly where there's the size and the amount of money available to the promoters, does the stage tableau change? What's happening on stage? Lighting and graphics?

• 40:13Speaker 06

  Same, we're lucky, you see.

• 40:15Alec Baldwin?

  Because your music lends itself to something spectacular.

• 40:17Speaker 06

  Yeah. It's an interesting story that the first roadie we have is Mike Tate. And Mike Tate is now Tate Towers, one of the biggest touring- Companies in America for sure. And we were doing a show up in north of England in a small pub. And he was driving us and obviously a stripper would come on most nights in the pub. But we were doing our show and there's all these little sort of switches on the side of the wall. And he was up and down with all colors on us like that with little switches like that. And I thought, oh, that's really cool. So we drove down to London and Mike said, I'm going back to Australia. I said, no, no, no, you can't do that. You're going to be our lighting guy.

• 41:02Speaker 06

  I said, what do you mean? I said, what do you mean? Because I just saw you tonight.

• 41:05Alec Baldwin?

  He didn't know it yet.

• 41:05Speaker 06

  No. So we got some money and he made these genie towers which came out of a box. He wired them up and these were car lights.

• 41:13Alec Baldwin?

  You cranked them.

• 41:14Speaker 06

  Car lights. And he had a little thing going.

• 41:17Alec Baldwin?

  But you didn't have any screens and images?

• 41:19Speaker 06

  No, that came topographic time. We started projection. We were first band to use laser.

• 41:25Alec Baldwin?

  And what did the band, what did the other bandmates feel about you bringing that element onto the stage?

• 41:29Speaker 06

  They didn't really talk to me about so much about it. I think Roger Dean had done the artwork. Him and his brother started doing the staging. And the best staging that they did for us was the relayer tour, Gates of Delirium with a three-headed sort of thingy. It's incredible.

• 41:45Alec Baldwin?

  How did you meet Roger Dean? Tell people, how did you meet him?

• 41:48Speaker 06

  I don't know. I think Steve said.

• 41:52Alec Baldwin?

  He was in the other stall next to Ahmet Erdekin. He came out of the stall, flushed the toilet.

• 41:56Speaker 06

  Yes, right. No, I'd seen this album cover of a band called Osibisa in London. And it was just fantastic. And I looked up on Roger Dean. And Steve said, I think I know somebody who knows him. I said, well, get him to come over. You know, Fragile, we were working on Fragile. And I just said, Roger, how are you? We all met and just put, you know, make something very fragile on the album cover. So he came back with this little world and I said, that's perfect. You know, and from then on, you know, we just kept working with him. So he would be involved in staging. Mike Tate was the lighting guy. And that was the way we worked in the seventies.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  911, what's your emergency?

• 42:36Speaker 02

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder warrants.

• 42:40Alec Baldwin?

  911 Nashville returns.

• 42:43Speaker 03

  There's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 42:46Alec Baldwin?

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  Hellson swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 42:56Alec Baldwin?

  Brian Phillipich wants 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 43:02Speaker 06

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today. To help find a home that fits where you are in life, or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools, and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started.

• 43:58Speaker 06

  Hola a todos. Soy Jamie Lynn Sigler. Cuando me diagnosticaron tenía veintitantos años y todo mi mundo cambió por completo. Pero con el tiempo decidí que no iba a permitir que eso frenara mi vida. Quise tomar las riendas y después de hablar con mi médico sobre mis opciones, la elección para mí fue obvia. Boom, eso es KISSIMTA. Obtenga más información sobre KISSIMTA o Fotumab en kissimta.com.

• 44:29Alec Baldwin?

  Explain to me, because I don't understand this either. I really don't. And I'm always fascinated by this. When you're exploring your music, it's so dynamic and it's so spiritual and rock at the same time. It's everything. It's jazz. It's its own planet, if you will. I mean, I really believe that. But at any point do you feel that the vocals need, does it ever cross your mind, like, we got to get a girl in here? Is there ever a discussion of a woman joining the band? Or has that never come up? Do we need a feminine voice?

• 44:57Speaker 06

  No.

• 44:57Alec Baldwin?

  Never. The music is always put through the prism of John's the singer.

• 45:01Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 45:02Alec Baldwin?

  Got it.

• 45:02Speaker 06

  And you get into that zone of, well, I'm writing the lyrics as well. Because I like writing lyrics.

• 45:08Alec Baldwin?

  You do.

• 45:08Speaker 06

  And me and Steve would write lyrics with each other. And me and Chris would write lyrics with each other. But I just tend to write a lot and think a lot and drive a lot. And I, come on up the mountain, people, come on. We got to do this. Because who else is going to help us? Who else is going to help? Nobody else is going to help us. Because we're going this way. And we went on that journey. And it went right through the seventies to that point where it couldn't go any further. Because the house of cards fell down.

• 45:36Alec Baldwin?

  We're going to talk about that in a minute. But when Topographic comes out, how does that do?

• 45:41Speaker 06

  Well, it's well documented that it was heavily criticized and very confused atmosphere around it because Mick hated it. He hated that it was too much for him because he was already half into something else, I think.

• 45:58Alec Baldwin?

  He wanted to be somewhere else a lot of the time.

• 46:00Speaker 06

  I think so, yeah.

• 46:00Alec Baldwin?

  And when he said he hated it, he was on the record at the time or while you were making it?

• 46:04Speaker 06

  He said, it's too much. It's too much music for people. It's too much music for them. And of course, I was.

• 46:10Alec Baldwin?

  What did he mean by too much music?

• 46:11Speaker 06

  It was like you're trying to make people eat a whole cake at once. You should have put it in pieces.

• 46:17Alec Baldwin?

  Right. The pieces were too long. The structure of the album was not right.

• 46:22Speaker 06

  It was four 20-minute pieces. Because that's all you could fit on an album.

• 46:25Alec Baldwin?

  Right. That's all you could fit on an album. I could just see you. I could see you waking. I have this image of you waking up in bed and you pick up the thing like, how many, how many minutes fit on an album again? Is it 80? Great. I've got four 20-minute verse songs, pieces. The revealing, the remembering.

• 46:43Speaker 06

  Ritual, ancient. And you just think, there's got to be a meaning to it.

• 46:47Alec Baldwin?

  He stopped believing in the structure of Yes' music.

• 46:50Speaker 06

  Yeah, he just felt that it wasn't going to work. And a lot of people agree with that.

• 46:55Alec Baldwin?

  Was he gone after Topographic?

• 46:56Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 46:57Alec Baldwin?

  How did you feel about that?

• 46:58Speaker 06

  I was sort of beaten up because.

• 47:01Alec Baldwin?

  Because in terms of musicianship, you could never find anybody who was his equal again. He's one of the greatest keepers in history.

• 47:07Speaker 06

  Ridiculous. You know, you go through that feeling like, I think I went, I made the wrong move. I went down the wrong road. I should have thought. Because all the time we were doing Close to the Edge. You know, why are you doing Close to the Edge? Why don't you do another roundabout? What's the matter with you? You want to make, we can make so much money now.

• 47:27Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, come on.

• 47:27Speaker 06

  Just want another one, another one, another. I said, no, I'm not interested in that.

• 47:30Alec Baldwin?

  Why don't you do, I want to hold your hand.

• 47:32Speaker 06

  All right, yeah.

• 47:33Alec Baldwin?

  Do your version of that. Do the spiritual version of that.

• 47:35Speaker 06

  They wanted me to sing, "For the night has a thousand eyes, and a thousand dies." Bobby V. I said, you want me to do that? Don't, please don't tell me.

• 47:51Alec Baldwin?

  Now, when was Yes songs recorded? In between which?

• 47:53Speaker 06

  I think it was just after Fragile.

• 47:55Alec Baldwin?

  I think it was after Fragile or Close to the Edge, Yes songs, Topographic.

• 47:57Speaker 06

  You got it. But the idea is that everybody, you know, Steve and Alan and Chris put so much into Topographic, you know, and it was, it was, it was magic to perform. And to hold an audience for 20 minutes, you can hear a pin drop every now, you know, every, it's amazing.

• 48:15Alec Baldwin?

  How were the audiences when you performed that live?

• 48:16Speaker 06

  It was amazing because our encore was Close to the Edge. So it was like we were living this new, new world of music, which is kind of crazy thinking. But I felt we'd found this big cloud that we could sail around the world on, you know, and we were playing this music that was, you know, and then as time went along, you realized that one part of the puzzle, Rick, he wasn't enjoying it. And it sounded like he wasn't enjoying it. And he was caught once with, what was it? Some Indian food underneath his keyboard. We were doing a show and he had some Indian curry underneath his keyboard. So that, that broke the back.

• 48:57Alec Baldwin?

  But help me with this because the thing I've learned from people who are these immensely successful and people are just eating your music up alive, you know, they love it. It's so fresh and so new and so brilliant. And you guys are going along and then one cylinder in the engine decides to pop out. What do the other guys, how do they feel?

• 49:16Speaker 06

  Well, we got to get a new keyboard player. Where's a new keyboard player? That was the first, you know, I thought, here's the silliest story ever. I started thinking, and I just heard about this guy called Vangelis Papatanasse, who lived in Paris. And I'd seen a photograph of him using laser beams. So we got laser beams. And I went to meet Vangelis. And I loved his first album. It's called Creation du Monde. I used to play it before a Yes show. So when audiences are coming in, they're hearing this cosmic music by Vangelis. So I won't tell you the story, meeting him and everything, but he nearly joined the band. I invited him to London to join the band soon as Rick went there.

• 49:59Alec Baldwin?

  Well, why don't you want to tell the story of meeting him? Why?

• 50:01Speaker 06

  Well, it's silly. You know, it's like.

• 50:03Alec Baldwin?

  Well, tell it.

• 50:04Speaker 06

  Okay, so I get to Paris. I find his phone number. I've got his number. Call him up. Hello? Hello? Vangelis? Yes. Oh, my name's John Anderson. I sing in a band called Yes. What's Yes? I don't know Yes. It's a band, you know? A band, I'm a singer. Oh, oh, John, Johnny, oh, come over. So I went over to his apartment, right? And I opened the door and he's standing there. Tall guy with a long sort of caftan, you know, big beard and everything. And he has a big bow and arrow over his shoulder, like a long bow, you know? Hey, Johnny, come get a hug, you know? So.

• 50:44Alec Baldwin?

  So he's in the middle of an archery session and.

• 50:46Speaker 06

  Yes, he had a very long hallway. All the way down the bottom of the hallway was a target.

• 50:53Alec Baldwin?

  He's shooting.

• 50:54Speaker 06

  And he said, watch this, John. And he takes a bow and arrow, and it went right through the window.

• 51:01Alec Baldwin?

  And hit the postman.

• 51:03Speaker 06

  Hey, I just laughed because it was just so beautiful. And I went around his, his house with cassettes everywhere. Oh, listen to this. I have this music. Listen to this. And then he started playing with his big fat fingers. The most gorgeous music I'd ever heard.

• 51:15Alec Baldwin?

  When you say he almost joined the band, what was that about?

• 51:17Speaker 06

  Well, I asked him to come over to England and join the band. And Steve and Chris thought I was crazy. Who is this guy? You know, I said, let's try it.

• 51:28Alec Baldwin?

  He's gonna shoot arrows at us. Bloody crazy.

• 51:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, I know. So we, we, we started rehearsing and Steve's got his guitar tuning up. And absentmindedly, Van Gogh says, oh, you know, electric guitar, not a real instrument, you know. Cause he was one of those crazy Greek people. I said, we're trying to make friends here, Van Gogh.

• 51:49Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, try to fit in.

• 51:50Speaker 06

  It didn't work, so.

• 51:51Alec Baldwin?

  He was gone.

• 51:52Speaker 06

  And then I became friends with Van Gogh, of course.

• 51:54Alec Baldwin?

  How do you find your next keyboardist? Where?

• 51:56Speaker 06

  So Patrick Maraz came along to my, my house and started playing the piano. He was brilliant. He was in London. He's from Switzerland.

• 52:05Alec Baldwin?

  Was he in another band?

• 52:05Speaker 06

  He was in a band called Refugee. But he wanted to join the band and as soon as he played the piano, I said, you're, you're, you're very good. And I was overjoyed that we'd found somebody equally as exciting and possibly talented as Rick. So we started rehearsing and we did the Relayer album. One song we did was called Gates of Delirium, which is a long form piece of music. And it was the first one that I actually, strangely enough, I've been playing the piano a lot. I took to the band, me playing it.

• 52:48Speaker 06

  You know, and I went through it with, I'd, I'd learned four parts, you know.

• 52:59Speaker 06

  And I can't believe that he understood me. Cause I was terrible, I was terrible.

• 53:04Alec Baldwin?

  So Maraz did that album, Relayer?

• 53:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, he did Relayer. Chris was on top of that. Gates of Delirium was fantastic to perform. It was like this wild, warlike tendency, why, why humans or why we're all into war and.

• 53:17Alec Baldwin?

  Now, when you say the house of cards falls, what happens if the relayer comes out? Are there more changes and does it start to blow apart?

• 53:26Speaker 06

  No, it gets, it gets a bit strange because um, Pat, Patrick Blessing starts to wander off and finds himself in Brazil and he got married and things like that. And we lost contact. And we decided.

• 53:40Alec Baldwin?

  Patrick Maraz.

• 53:40Speaker 06

  Maraz, yeah. We decided we wanted to start recording. And some, somebody said, well, why don't we record with the Queen? I've been recording in Montreux. They've got a studio there. It's lovely there in Switzerland. And we wanted to pay taxes that year and all that kind of crap. And so we all go to Switzerland and Montreux is beautiful. And we, you know, I'm there and writing and dust was gathering on his keyboards. There's that kind of strange feeling, where is he? And so we carried on rehearsing ideas and stuff and you know, I, I'd, I'd actually bumped into Steve Howe at a Holiday Inn near Detroit about four months earlier.

• 54:23Speaker 06

  I'd, I'd gone past his room and the smoke coming out from under the door. And he was playing this riff.

• 54:34Speaker 06

  Sort of thing. And I thought, that's kind of nice. And I said, hi Steve. So I went to have breakfast. I came back, he's still playing it. I said, why don't you change key?

• 54:47Speaker 06

  So I walked in and sang the, the main line of Awaken, which is the first verse or that kind of thing. And then I said, Steve, how many chords can you play without repeating? And he started playing all these chords. I said, keep playing them and repeat for.

• 55:04Speaker 06

  Workings of a man set to ply out historical life, re-again in the flower of the fruit of his tree. And he just popped out. And I was actually in that space of saying, let's just do that. That'll be the second stanza. And then there'll be another stanza and then I'm going to do a harp thing. Steve said, why?

• 55:23Speaker 06

  Cause I'm playing the harp every day. I'm on tour, which I did, you know. But that was great, making that album. And Awaken is so beautiful to create and perform. And we'd still perform it just now.

• 55:33Alec Baldwin?

  What's music in your life that's not your music? Are you, do you listen to a lot of music?

• 55:37Speaker 06

  Sibelius. I know, it's terrible.

• 55:39Alec Baldwin?

  No, what's your favorite?

• 55:41Speaker 06

  I just listened to The Seventh three times yesterday before I came here. I was driving around shopping.

• 55:48Alec Baldwin?

  I love the fourth for some reason.

• 55:50Speaker 06

  Oh my God, yeah.

• 55:51Alec Baldwin?

  I love the real sonorous and moody and dark.

• 55:54Speaker 06

  Well, he was, the Russians were on top of them.

• 55:57Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 55:57Speaker 06

  He was pissed, you know.

• 55:58Alec Baldwin?

  So classical is big in your life?

• 56:01Speaker 06

  Well, I think, yeah.

• 56:02Alec Baldwin?

  Jazz?

• 56:02Speaker 06

  Well, I was very big into Rassam Roland Kirk. I thought he was just amazing.

• 56:07Alec Baldwin?

  What about contemporary music now? Are you, do you?

• 56:10Speaker 06

  Well, there's always a great song here and there. Every week another song pops. Oh my God, yeah. And there's a lot of great music out there that most people are not going to hear on radio anyway. So the only way you can do it and hear music is go like, somebody sent me a link and it was this band doing an Ed Sheeran song, using pipes and things on a, on a, on a table. And it was the most glorious work of art, these people singing his song, but doing these kind of spoons and singing in beautiful harmony. They're a very famous band, actually. Five million people watch that.

• 56:43Alec Baldwin?

  There are people, I mean, I, I hope this comes out the right way. There are people who write music. I'm not saying this with any judgment of them, and the music is pretty simple. I mean, it's, it's, it's rock music and it's, it's exciting. And it's, I love you and you don't love me and why don't you love me? And your music is very nougaty and very dense and very rich. And I'm assuming that the making of that music would probably set you up for even a worse case of what people suffer in terms of their personal lives. And did you find that the music that you were writing and the work you were doing was so intense? That it negatively impacted your personal life?

• 57:17Speaker 06

  No.

• 57:17Alec Baldwin?

  And what didn't?

• 57:19Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 57:19Alec Baldwin?

  You weren't married to your, to your music?

• 57:22Speaker 06

  Totally.

• 57:22Alec Baldwin?

  Right. So you were polygamous. You were married to your wife and your music?

• 57:26Speaker 06

  Totally.

• 57:27Alec Baldwin?

  That's okay.

• 57:27Speaker 06

  Now, my, my second wife, Jane, we've been together 25 years and it's amazing. She is unbelievable.

• 57:34Alec Baldwin?

  You didn't find that, that to be a challenge to balance your home life and your work?

• 57:37Speaker 06

  It was, it was obviously, you know, you're growing up and you're getting older and you're trusting accountants to take care of your finances and things like that. And they keep saying, you've got to buy more stuff. You've got to buy more stuff because there's so much money and you've got to buy more stuff. And you think, why? What, you know, I'm not interested in stuff, to be honest.

• 57:54Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 57:54Speaker 06

  I don't come from that. I come from a very.

• 57:56Alec Baldwin?

  Simple.

• 57:57Speaker 06

  Simple background from Accrington. I used to be, I used to be the ball boy for Accrington Stanley, one of the first teams in the first league that ever was. Soccer.

• 58:09Alec Baldwin?

  Football.

• 58:10Speaker 06

  You know, my core values are very, very simple, very clear. That I can't believe I'm doing what I'm doing. I'm so grateful to be here, speaking with you, because I've seen you work and I know you're fucking great.

• 58:23Alec Baldwin?

  Oh, thank you.

• 58:24Speaker 06

  And it's just the idea that I can't wait until tomorrow. Cause I know the great music is coming. I know some great stuff is happening.

• 58:32Alec Baldwin?

  When you perform now, do you need to adjust the key in the way you sing? You do, you do.

• 58:37Speaker 06

  Down a tone or half a tone.

• 58:39Alec Baldwin?

  You're down half a tone.

• 58:40Speaker 06

  You know, I listen to my stuff. I was done, I was singing on helium, half of it.

• 58:43Alec Baldwin?

  No, no, no, it's, but it's so.

• 58:45Speaker 06

  I didn't realize.

• 58:46Alec Baldwin?

  It's incredible. When you look back on the amazing, amazing work you did and the amazing music you made and.

• 58:56Speaker 06

  I thank you, I thank you.

• 58:58Alec Baldwin?

  But when you look back, was there anything you would have done differently?

• 59:01Speaker 06

  No.

• 59:01Alec Baldwin?

  No.

• 59:02Speaker 06

  I can't believe where I am now. You know, we're just going to go into the Hall of Fame. Well, when you, when people.

• 59:07Alec Baldwin?

  Was that something that you wanted? Does that mean something to you?

• 59:09Speaker 06

  No, it was something to do with this manager 20 years ago said, I'm going to get you in the Hall of Fame. I said, I don't care. It'll happen when it happens. And that's my mantra. Things will happen when they happen. Don't tell me I'm going to be in the Hall of Fame. All my heroes are there.

• 59:22Alec Baldwin?

  And there's, and there's nothing you would do differently?

• 59:26Speaker 06

  I can't, no, I can't think.

• 59:28Alec Baldwin?

  It's hard to think about that.

• 59:29Speaker 06

  There's obviously things I, I should have done differently.

• 1:00:25Alec Baldwin?

  In an interview last August with Classic Rock, Anderson said, quote, "For me, yes, was about the adventure of music, not making a living. The adventure itself will create great things," unquote. Indeed, it has. This is Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.

• 1:00:46Speaker 00

  Okay, laundry stinks, literally. I mean, you could just keep buying new underwear. Not that I've ever done that. Or maybe sort your clothes into piles based on how re-wearable or filthy they are. Or just use Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. It's made for real life stinks and stains. So even if you don't do laundry the quote, right way, Deep Clean will knock it out. I mean, it is from the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. Number one claim based on total wash loads sold.

• 1:01:21Speaker 06

  Are you struggling with symptoms of chronic hives with no known external triggers? Living with chronic spontaneous urticaria, or CSU, can be frustrating, especially when symptoms last months or even years. CSU is a long-term condition that often requires ongoing treatment. Rapsodo, remabrutinib, is an oral prescription treatment that's taken twice daily with or without food for adults with CSU who continue to have symptoms not controlled with antihistamines. It should not be used for any other forms of hives. Rapsodo may cause bleeding and risk may increase if also taking a blood thinner. So tell your doctor right away if you have any signs or symptoms. Also discuss immunizations as you should not receive live or live attenuated vaccines with Rapsodo.

• 1:02:03Speaker 06

  Side effects include nasal congestion, sore throat, runny nose, bleeding, headache, nausea, and abdominal pain. When antihistamines alone aren't enough, it may be time to ask your doctor about Rapsodo. To learn more, visit rapsodo.com or call 87 Rapsodo. That's 877-427-7436.

• 1:02:23Speaker 02

  Hello? Hey, it's me, your wallet. Oh, hey. I was just wondering if we could maybe take it easy this week? Absolutely. Really? Yep. I'm shopping at Food Lion. Wait, you mean low prices? And MVP savings. Oh, you do care. Obviously. Okay, I feel better. Good. Now let's go get some snacks. At Food Lion, low prices and MVP savings make it easier to shop for what you need without spending more than you have to. When your wallet needs a little TLC, head to your local Food Lion or shop at foodlion.com.

• 1:03:00Alec Baldwin?

  Wise is the smart way to manage the currencies you need around the globe. If you've ever sent money internationally using a traditional bank, there's a good chance you've paid more than you realized. Hidden fees, exchange rate markups, and extra charges can quietly add up before your money even arrives. There's a better way. Try Wise. Wise uses the exchange rate you'd usually find on Google, helping you avoid the unwelcome surprises that often come with international transfers. Whether you're sending money to family overseas, spending while on your holiday abroad, or paying bills across borders, Wise makes moving money simple, transparent, and straightforward. Wise offers 24/7 customer service and runs over 7 million daily checks to spot and stop fraud. And most transfers happen in under 20 seconds,

• 1:03:45Alec Baldwin?

  which means your money arrives in less time than you've been listening to me. Join millions, saving billions. Be smart. Get Wise. Visit wise.com or download the Wise app today. T's and C's apply.