Winona Ryder, Vol. IV

Winona Ryder is back! On this 4th visit to the podcast, she chats with Josh about the end of STRANGER THINGS, watching BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA this past Halloween and her favorite lines from HEATHERS. UPCOMING EVENTS Walker Scobell 12/19 in NYC -- ⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠ Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

  I, by the way, watched Dracula. It was on on Halloween and I thought of you because you said you like watched it so many times.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  I watched it so often.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  And I was like, this is amazing.

• 0:43Speaker 02

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 0:50Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Winona Ryder is back. Fourth time is the charm. Talking Stranger Things, Dracula. Beautiful, delicious tangent says only Winona can deliver. So thrilled, the one and only Winona Ryder is back on the pod. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out Happy, Sad, Confused, for watching it on YouTube or on Spotify, listening at wherever you get your podcasts. I will mention, I shouted out Spotify. We have broken some amazing records for Happy, Sad, Confused. The most watched entertainment podcast on Spotify recently.

• 1:35Josh Horowitz?

  That's crazy. So thank you. You guys are awesome. It's amazing this podcast is bigger than ever and it's basically 12th year now. So I am so grateful for those of you that have checked out the pod. Hopefully you've enjoyed a small sampling or a large sampling of the nearly 700 episodes of Happy, Sad, Confused that we've delivered over the last 11 plus years. Go through our archives, see what we've delivered. There are, chances are, your favorite actor or filmmaker has been on the pod probably more than once. And that applies to the one and only Winona Ryder. So as soon as I do a Winona Ryder episode, the fans are always like, when's Winona coming back? Well, we made it happen. Of course, we made it happen. If you've listened to my last few conversations with her

• 2:20Josh Horowitz?

  over the years, you know. We have a very special, unique bond. Winona is a unicorn. She, the energy and enthusiasm, the nervous tics, I love it all. We're cut from the same neurotic cloth, I like to think. And I love going on the tangents with her. This was one of the very few interviews she did in support of this final season of Stranger Things. It does go on veer around as the best conversations with Winona does. And I think you're gonna enjoy it. If you love her, love her career, you're gonna dig this. Before we go to the Winona Ryder conversation, a

• 3:02Josh Horowitz?

  brief mention, as always, check out our Patreon. You get early access to all of our episodes of Happy, Say Confused and bonus materials and merch and all that kind of fun stuff. Patreon.com/happyconfused. You also get the heads up on our live events that we're doing, including, we're doing Walker Scobell. If you have a Percy Jackson fan in your life, December 19th, I think that's the date. I think I got that right. This is gonna sell out. There are some tickets available, but they are going fast. So get in on that. If you have a Percy Jackson fan in your life and you're in New York, come on out. The link for tickets is in the show notes. Okay, not much more to say about this Winona conversation,

• 3:42Josh Horowitz?

  except to say, as always, I'm very grateful that she trusts me when she doesn't do a lot of press. She does tease, by the way, at the end of this conversation, wanting to do another conversation. TBD in that. I don't know if we're actually gonna do it or not. I'd love to, of course, but we'll see if the ships align. But for now, an embarrassment of riches, a long-form conversation with everybody's favorite Joyce Byers, Stranger Things. By the way, Volume One hits Netflix later this week, Volume Two, Christmas, and then the finale, New Year's Eve. So lots of excitement to come. And by the way, some

• 4:21Josh Horowitz?

  more Happy, Say Confused, Stranger Things episodes are afoot. So stay tuned. And without any further ado, here's me catching up in person in Los Angeles with Winona Ryder. Winona, good to see you as always. Here we go again.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  I know.

• 4:39Josh Horowitz?

  This is the intersection of Winona Ryder fans, happy, sad, confused fans. This is what they want.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  This is what they want.

• 4:45Josh Horowitz?

  We want and they want.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  We want.

• 4:47Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to see you.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  I know. Who are they?

• 4:49Josh Horowitz?

  Who are they?

• 4:50Speaker 01

  These days, yeah.

• 4:51Josh Horowitz?

  They're people with good taste. This is who they are.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:54Josh Horowitz?

  Are you feeling happy, sad, or confused as you sit here?

• 4:56Speaker 01

  I, I think like it's just been such a big...

• 5:03Speaker 01

  It's, it, it's hard to pinpoint like how I feel. And I felt like this, like, I felt like this the whole season. And, um, I, I, I felt this sort of

• 5:18Speaker 01

  really wanting to focus on the kids. Because I remember being their age and rapping. Well, actually, I remember being a young teenager and rapping. It's such tender years, your adolescence. I remember like rapping things and truly thinking I might never see any of the people again. And being kind of afraid and really sad. And, but with, but now, like, at my age, with perspective, like, I will always know a lot of these kids, you know, like, I'm gonna know

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Finn for the rest of my life. I'm gonna know, you know, I hope I get to work with them again. I hope I, I, you know.

• 6:12Josh Horowitz?

  Well, and they met you at such a formative time for them.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  They did. And so for them, it's like half of their entire lives. For me, it's the last 10 years, which is, which is crazy.

• 6:25Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you've played this character more than any other character in your career.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  I know. I know.

• 6:30Josh Horowitz?

  But when you think back to the beginning days, 10 years ago, and we've talked about this, like, you know, you didn't know what a streamer was, Netflix was, what you were, I mean, you kind of knew what you were getting into, but you didn't, obviously, you couldn't, nobody could.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  No.

• 6:43Josh Horowitz?

  Um, I mean, what would, what would you say to Winona 10 years ago that was kind of like on the fence about getting into this?

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Oh my god. Um, whoo, I don't know. Um, just like...

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Buckle up. I don't think I I mean, I I truly think. This show it it the show is so much about.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  The kids and I think it was very. The first season was like a lot of work for me because it was such an emotional.

• 7:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  The se- season and it was like. My first time. Eh, having to be that emotional. Without like necessarily like the twenty minutes to be able to get there. So I kind of just had to. S- stay in this like level of. Emotion that was. Very challenging.

• 7:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  But um, after that. And that, you know, with the reception it got and like the kids just sort of like. Skyrocketing into this sort of global. Eh, you know.

• 7:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Unprecedented. Yeah.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I eh, there was something that happened sort of around. Season three where it and it was very. Liberating and relieving for for me. Because I realized it this really is about about them and um. Instead of like trying to figure out like what I could do and what I can.

• 8:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  You know, a storyline or but like it really. Eh, you know.

• 8:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you're getting out of your own head and letting yourself.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  Exactly, like it just.

• 8:33Josh Horowitz?

  See the big picture.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, and and. And it it really has been. I do like a real. I just feel like.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Because it there's the there's the younger kids and then there's the. Older kids and um. I just feel so lucky to know them and to have them in my life and. Um. I I I I really. That's what's so bittersweet.

• 9:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  About it ending, honestly, is is but I do. I I've been really trying to.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  To get them to understand, like, it doesn't mean like our friendship is over.

• 9:22Josh Horowitz?

  Still available, not changing my number on YouTube.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And, and, yeah.

• 9:37Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's funny, because like, we've talked before about like mentorship and like how you early in your career, like you looked up to this generation before you and got a chance to spend time with this this generation. And that meant so much to you.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  God, yeah.

• 9:50Josh Horowitz?

  So I'm just curious, like, what, I don't know if you have a go to in kind of like when people are coming to you for general advice or specific advice, because like I read something where like Timmy, who worked with you briefly on that commercial, like talked about, like, even in that time, he, you, you gave him some very useful tips, he said.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 10:09Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know if you remember that.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 10:11Josh Horowitz?

  Um, but generally, what do you say to an actor of a younger generation that's looking for a little bit of guidance?

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Well, I mean,

• 10:22Speaker 01

  it, it, it's such a different world because of, you know, I, I didn't grow up with the internet or social media or any of that.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  I'm really proud of the kids because I think they each, I watched them each figure out how to take breaks from that.

• 10:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  I remember like Caleb just turned off his, like, and, and he was like, God, it's great. You know, like, because I think people are, there is a real, like, addiction to your,

• 10:52Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  your phone and, you know, whatever. And, um, but I do, I think if,

• 11:01Speaker 01

  if I'm really honest, I, I.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  I have this, I don't know if I've ever told you this. I worked with this really great actor Trey Wilson on Grey Balls Fire. He played Sam Phillips and I just loved this guy and he unfortunately passed away during the the film. He was only thirty nine. But we used to watch the dailies like on like the fourteenth floor of the Radisson in Memphis, like in a in a room. And I remember like the last time I saw him, we had watched the dailies and it was like a particularly fun scene. And he walked me back to my room and we were walking down the stairs

• 11:50Speaker 01

  of a hotel and he sort of stopped me and he's like, you're having a really, I can, you're having such a good time. When it doesn't feel like that anymore, you like,

• 12:04Josh Horowitz?

  You have to take a break, yeah?

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  And that really, like, I really just heard that in that moment and that really stayed with me. And I thought that was a really um important piece of advice. And I I I've tried with the kids on this. I've tried to sort of,

• 12:33Speaker 01

  I want them to know that they made this show what it is. It, they're not, they're, you know, everyone, we all know how grateful we all are for these, for this opportunity to be part of the show. And that narrative has been like, we all know that. And uh but I've I've been like, no, you know, you are what everyone fell in love with, like you, the charm, the authenticity, your talent. Like, people fell in love with these kids. I shouldn't say fell in love, but I'd want to sound, but you know, they they absolutely connected with these kids because these kids are that special

• 13:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  and unique and authentic and they and that sort of effortless charm, you know? And I want, I really tried to, to drill that into them because I think it's so important. When you are part of something that's so like huge.

• 13:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  And that, you know, people spend a lot of money to, to make it, you know, like that. You, those kids are really, really special.

• 13:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  It is, it's, Netflix is so lucky.

• 13:55Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  To have them and they are what made this show what it is.

• 13:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I mean, with all due respect to the, the bells and whistles and it's so beautifully made. And obviously the doctors do a great job, but it's, it is, it's about characters and it, those.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:08Josh Horowitz?

  The fact that those, it's so emotional, I think for the audience now saying goodbye because they have kind of grown up with them and seeing them. I mean, just watching the first couple of episodes.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Did you see them?

• 14:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  I haven't seen them.

• 14:19Josh Horowitz?

  But like, I mean, you've experienced this, you're with them, but like seeing literally they, they're different people now in many ways. It's, it's a very like unusual. It's like the one, you know, watching Richard Linklater's Boyhood and like watching that kind of transition. It's like.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  That's a great example.

• 14:35Josh Horowitz?

  So powerful.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I feel like.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  The, um, it's like, again, uh, they were at such a tender age and I have a thing about. Protecting. I really tried to, uh, um, protect. I think it's important. I know we're living in like a very confusing world. Like socially, you know, politically, like it's very complicated, but, but there.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  And people, you know, I'm, it's not lost on me that the word fan. Fandom, fan comes from the word fanatic. And, um, which is often, you know, was often I've used with in terms of religion or something. Which is very personal and very powerful and. But I think.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  To it's really important to um for them to be able to like

• 15:49Speaker 01

  experience those tender years in a in a in a environment where they don't they're they're not getting so much like outside

• 16:03Josh Horowitz?

  The noise that can really confuse all of us.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  The noise, yeah. And by the way, we've all like every actor that I know that's that started young. We all know what that's like. We've all gone through stages. I think the difference now is that

• 16:22Speaker 01

  it like it's it's everything is documented.

• 16:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Which is crazy. It's crazy, Josh.

• 16:32Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's crazy like you you know, the way you came up and the intensity around your fan base like you even without Instagram and all of that, you had about as close as they can experience because you were at the center of madness. The fact that you came out of it sane is.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  I always think about though, when I the the word with the word fan, I always think of that scene in Almost Famous. Where he's talking to Lester Bangs and he's like, well, I just can't sit around talking to my many fans. And it's literally just him. He says that to the kids.

• 17:09Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right, right.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  So every time I'm asked like about my fan, like I'm like, I can't sit around talking. I I like I feel like I'm Lester Bangs.

• 17:20Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so we just passed as we take this like Halloween was a few days ago and I bet like every year friends or whatever send you photos of like people dressed up as some of your iconic characters or you see sometimes like

• 17:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:33Josh Horowitz?

  tattoos or shirts that say Winona Forever. Like, I mean, you are very much a part of pop culture that is so sticky to the next generation, the generation to come. And I mean, every generation is going to watch Heathers and Reality Bites and it's going to mean something to them.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  You think I I don't.

• 17:52Josh Horowitz?

  I think so.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  It's interesting. I feel like um

• 17:58Speaker 01

  it's such a like, it's like such a weird path because on one hand, you will, you you know, like the kids on the show.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  There are some that like have watched all of those movies and you know, asked me about them and da da da. There, there were some that had never seen any of those movies and didn't know what I was talking about.

• 18:22Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  And I know we talked last time about what that game.

• 18:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, the heads up game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Heads up, I think.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Like the trivia where I knew like nothing about today, but, but I, you know. And I do also recognize that I have. Um, I don't know, you know, I know that a lot of people like have discovered that they're like on the spectrum or, you know, and I, I kind of remember, like I remember Anthony Hopkins.

• 18:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  And Dan Aykroyd and Annie Lennox. Um, just, I think, uh, I, I'm like of the generation where it was just called life.

• 19:10Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  You know, there was no.

• 19:12Josh Horowitz?

  Now it's diagnosed, but back in the day it was just eccentricity.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  I, I like been having conversations like with, with Scott, with my partner about like, I wonder if we're all, like, I think maybe everyone is.

• 19:27Josh Horowitz?

  Somewhere on that spectrum.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  To the, because I do have this thing of like, I retain, I can retain a lot of information.

• 19:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  But often it's, it's not, uh, it, it, it's just very, it can be very random.

• 19:45Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  But then it can be, and I do, I think when I talk about movies and when I show Scott movies, I go into this, this, uh, nineteen forty two, like I go into this like, sort of like, I, I have to say all of this stuff because this is like the context which you need to understand.

• 20:03Josh Horowitz?

  Opened up that book in the library. You're like, ready, I got that.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, and this was, this is where it was shot and this is where, like, and.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  I don't know what what that

• 20:15Josh Horowitz?

  What the name is for that, but it's it's how your brain works.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Interesting, because my um my agent that I'm with now, he was my old agent's assistant.

• 20:28Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wow.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  Like from many years ago, who used to have these like screenings of old movies.

• 20:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  And um my agent was like, you were always there giving the giving the intro. Like, uh, with every old movie, you were, you know, you know, everything. It's it's interesting. I I don't know if that's sort of a spec spectrum thing.

• 20:57Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  But it is um it is part of who I am, and I I think I was embarrassed about it for a long time, and now I'm just like, well.

• 21:07Josh Horowitz?

  This is who I am.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Who I am. Yeah.

• 21:10Josh Horowitz?

  Um, we always, we always talk about a couple of, uh, like, you know, random films in the filmography. Not surprisingly, there's some we've never discussed. Let me just bring up a couple more. Because every time we open up a new volume in the Winona Ryder filmography, we've never talked about Girl Interrupted.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Oh, wow, we haven't.

• 21:24Josh Horowitz?

  No, I know, surprisingly. And you were EP on that. That's another one like, kind of like Dracula, that you kind of helped birth into existence, I believe.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:33Josh Horowitz?

  I would.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  I, by the way, watched Dracula. It was on on Halloween, and I thought of you. Because you said you, like, watched it so many times.

• 21:43Josh Horowitz?

  I watched it so often.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  And I was like, this is amazing.

• 21:47Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  And I, like, because it was all practical effects. And Roman, who was a kid, was doing such an amazing, he did all like the second unit stuff and every transition in that, I

• 22:03Josh Horowitz?

  Did any scene jump out at you? Did it ignite any? Most of it ignited a lot of memories.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Crazy, crazy.

• 22:10Josh Horowitz?

  Give me something.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  I mean, what do you want? I remember everything, literally.

• 22:14Josh Horowitz?

  The prologue, the epic prologue.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  Oh, Elizabeth, the one that Van Helsing.

• 22:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Um, says, well, I had to learn a Romanian.

• 22:27Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Um, I'm, you can't really hear it, but I'm pleading with him.

• 22:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  In Romania.

• 22:35Josh Horowitz?

  Romanian.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Um, worked with the great Monica Blucci.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  Was uh was one of the his his brides. Right. Um, I mean, I think because it was such, I mean, that was all on a soundstage. And all practical effects. There was like no like CGI in that. Yeah. It it's remarkable. What an achievement. Amazing. And also the sort of what I always was like nervous that it was. There was like, it was too campy. Operatic intentionally, though, it's. But you know what I realized? There's a shot where when I first meet the young prince. Yes. Where when I'm like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, when I'm, he takes me to the cinematic and and I'm. In a, I think that was probably what I was most self-conscious about. But in that shot, you can see that I'm wearing like a lot of lipstick. And that really affected me when I saw it because I was like, that isn't like. Oh, interesting. Period and oh no, like weird little tiny details that probably don't. Right, right. Other people, but I'm like, oh, God, you can see the. Now you've ruined it for all of us. Like, see, and then it's it's just not period, da, da, da, and and that. No, it had like a. Yeah. An impact on me. Also, I mean, the scene where.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Where he comes in as the mist and, you know. I just remember that that day so clearly. I remember the taste of the. Blood and um I like. It, I, you know, it tasted a little bit like like cherry nightfall, you know, or something. Right, yeah. But I I do. And and I remember like loving Francis so much and feeling. Um, and I I just remember how he.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  I have I told you what he would do?

• 24:48Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  And I don't I like has I'm reluctant, because I I think it was kind of amazing.

• 24:54Josh Horowitz?

  Mm hmm.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  But he would be like we before we were gonna do. And if it was sort of like a a big shot, like in the garden.

• 25:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Like the labyrinth, he'd be like, or in the street, he'd be like, OK, London. Brr, brr. Yeah, like it and it's just like it had an action and we're all like, what? Uh, you know, and but he would like kind of call out to us.

• 25:19Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  And this also before Video Village.

• 25:23Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  You know, I love when directors are right there.

• 25:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, of course, not hiding in a tent somewhere.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, and and I feel like every director should do that. Should do that a couple of times as much as they can.

• 25:39Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  Because it's a gift to the actor. It it means so much to us.

• 25:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  And um, I remember when that like transition happened, it got it it. It can get, it can feel very.

• 25:58Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you're not connected with them, like they're doing their own thing.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  And there are, you know, and I think I I maybe because I had so much of I got to experience that so much. Maybe I'm just spoiled because a lot of like I I was talking to, I think Noah, like, like, he was like, what are you talking about? And I was like.

• 26:19Josh Horowitz?

  Not the norm anymore.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  They used to be right next to the camera.

• 26:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  And like watching us and he was like, I don't like, what do you mean?

• 26:28Josh Horowitz?

  I can't even process what you're talking.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:31Josh Horowitz?

  No, I I will say, by the way, I I interviewed Francis at the podcast last year for Megalopolis. I mean, what a, I mean, to spend an hour with that man and the, yeah, the theater games he still does and everything. Like, I have such reverence for that man, so.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  Have you seen the?

• 26:46Josh Horowitz?

  The doc about Megalopolis? This would.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  No, the doc about about the making of Dracula.

• 26:51Josh Horowitz?

  I think I have, yeah, yeah.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  I discovered it on YouTube. And it's it's amazing. And there are, there's a lot of footage of us in Napa.

• 27:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Like throwing sounds at each other.

• 27:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  And I really appreciated Billy Campbell's being so honest. He was like, I felt, I I kind of felt stupid. I was embarrassed, you know, because there is an element of that in the beginning. It takes a while to be able to like, be that sort of silly in front of.

• 27:24Josh Horowitz?

  Hundred percent.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Especially you're working with like, one of America's.

• 27:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  The great, you know.

• 27:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 27:32Josh Horowitz?

  No, that's that's the best of tangents. I will take a track of any day. It's still playing like all the time at the Paris Theater around my corner, by the way.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Someday, I want to tell you about.

• 27:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  The all the auditions when there was um, an actor who came in. And he decided to not use words in the screen test, which was very interesting. And I kind of.

• 27:56Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, was Daniel Day Lewis almost Dracula at one point?

• 28:00Speaker 01

  No.

• 28:01Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, okay.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  I think, gosh, I because my left foot was like eighty nine. He, I think he was.

• 28:08Josh Horowitz?

  Three years later, yeah.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:09Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  I think we shot it in ninety one.

• 28:13Josh Horowitz?

  Sounds right.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. But I do, like, there were a lot of actors and it was, it was fascinating. And also, I just remembered, I also want to tell you about the Heathers auditions because all the guys that came in. I it's the scene where I'm like fake.

• 28:34Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  Hanging. And so I just had to stand on a chair like this. And I couldn't sometimes like I wanted to watch them, but I'll tell, I'll tell you.

• 28:44Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I'll listen to that now if you want. I'm here, but well, can I ask about a girl interrupted? Because you assembled such an ensemble for that one. And obviously, Angelina wins the Oscar, but uh, Lizzie Moss and Brittany.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  I know.

• 28:56Josh Horowitz?

  Um, I do, I mean, I would imagine you were very involved in, yeah, creative vault in the casting of that. I mean, you must have had a heavy input in that with Jim Engle.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  I I did. Well, I. You know, remember, um, really like, I remember my meetings with him trying to, trying to get him to do it. And that was based off of heavy.

• 29:20Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Which, um, I, I just like had a really profound, like, I, I, I loved it. I loved, um, Vincent, the actor. I,

• 29:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Um, and I knew it was like, it was a, it was a tricky story to tell because it was, it was really just a chapter in, right. And there wasn't like, it wasn't like plot.

• 29:49Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Driven. That had to be a little bit constructed. But, um, yeah, that was, that was an amazing, it's amazing experience to, to be around all of those amazing actresses.

• 30:14Josh Horowitz?

  Um, we were talking about docs. Have you watched the Scorsese doc yet? This five hearts?

• 30:18Speaker 01

  I am loving it.

• 30:20Josh Horowitz?

  So good, right?

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:21Josh Horowitz?

  Obsessed.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  I also, because I, I worked with Rebecca.

• 30:26Josh Horowitz?

  You're right.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Miller.

• 30:27Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  I worked with Arthur.

• 30:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  I worked with Inga. She photographed me.

• 30:32Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  And I worked with Daniel.

• 30:34Josh Horowitz?

  Daniel, of course.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  So I'm like, okay, Ronin.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  You're, you're next. No, I, I, um,

• 30:44Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you need to complete the trio with Daniel. You've got two. You're probably one of a very small handful of actors that will do Daniel twice.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, you know, I texted that, like, I, I, I, I guess they, it all, like, his movie came out and her, that document.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  I I I love that. I haven't watched all of it, but it's it's she did a brilliant job. It's so moving.

• 31:11Josh Horowitz?

  I know.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  It's so, it's so moving. Even the stories that I was I'm like familiar with.

• 31:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  It's just so well, well done.

• 31:20Josh Horowitz?

  They cover literally, you'll see by the time you get through it, like literally all of his films. I don't know how she was able to do it.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:25Josh Horowitz?

  Um, so are we closer to a Daniel Day Lewis collab or a Keanu collab? Any talk with either way, please?

• 31:32Speaker 01

  I mean, what a, what a dream.

• 31:36Josh Horowitz?

  Have you seen Keanu on Broadway?

• 31:38Speaker 01

  I'm literally going to New York.

• 31:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  To see him. That's, that's our re- right, yeah.

• 31:45Josh Horowitz?

  That's a good reason.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Also, that play Waiting for Godot is a huge thing in my family because my father saw it when it first opened on Broadway. He, we had like the arty uncle, or he had like the arty uncle that was like taking him.

• 32:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  And he was sixteen and it made him become a writer.

• 32:07Josh Horowitz?

  Wow.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  It made him like choose.

• 32:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  And then he became kind of obsessed with Beckett and he what um

• 32:18Speaker 01

  he had like was stationed in France during the time there was anything going on, but he went to this cafe for like a couple of years that that he heard that Beckett frequented. It was on the wrong, he was on the wrong bank.

• 32:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Left or right.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  It's so, it's so Beckett, right? It's, it's such a, that's such a.

• 32:42Josh Horowitz?

  Classic Beckett move.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  Beckett. Yeah.

• 32:45Josh Horowitz?

  You'll like the, the production's pretty amazing.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait.

• 32:48Josh Horowitz?

  You mentioned, I mean, like we've obviously talked like you, you've always been such a reader, parents, writers, like, do you write? Have you ever written? Like, are you?

• 32:56Speaker 01

  I, yeah, I do write so much. I.

• 33:00Josh Horowitz?

  In what form? Like, is it like?

• 33:02Speaker 01

  I, I, it's usually just journal and thoughts.

• 33:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  And um, you know, I'll watch something or i- i- it's sort of just.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  I can't illustrate my giant notebooks, but um I I ha- I found this old, it's funny, I found this old notebook. Where it it was from when I was around like twenty one. And I think I had, I remember my um therapist had, I was like dealing with anxiety for the first time. He had said, um. If you draw, like, I listened to a lot of music and he said, draw out the lyrics. Just to like, keep yourself.

• 33:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  Like focused on.

• 33:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  You know, and just breathe.

• 33:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  And so I found this, um, I'll, I'll text you a picture, like, it's, it's like.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Just characters in, I, I mean. It it's Bruce Springsteen, it's, but it's like the story.

• 34:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Of, you know, Mary on the porch.

• 34:20Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  And, you know, the radio playing.

• 34:24Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Roy Orbison and, and it's just like the back, it's just sketches. And then just all the, what a great, um, what great advice.

• 34:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  To, because I was also traveling and working and. You know, just dealing with.

• 34:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  Like.

• 34:44Josh Horowitz?

  Way to channel something.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  And it's such a, it was such a great piece of advice. And I filled notebooks with.

• 34:52Josh Horowitz?

  All right.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:53Josh Horowitz?

  Finish this sentence for me. I wish someone would offer me a script where I get to.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 34:59Josh Horowitz?

  What, what, what can we manifest for you? What are you wanting right now that you're not getting a chance, that people aren't even envisioning for you at this point?

• 35:06Speaker 01

  I just, wait, the sentence, the.

• 35:09Josh Horowitz?

  So the sentence is something to the effect of, I wish someone would offer me a script where I get to.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Um.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  Where there's, it, where it's just. Um. Characters has nothing to do with effects.

• 35:26Josh Horowitz?

  A genre, no.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it hasn't, well, it, there's, there's, it's, that is just. Um.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  I just watched that this Patty Chayefsky documentary like it's called Collector of Words.

• 35:41Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  And I that made me go watch the movie Marty again.

• 35:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  Which is such a like, simple, but gorgeous and it makes you feel so much. And by the way, Mr. Redford, the the fact that he in Quiz Show.

• 36:04Josh Horowitz?

  Quiz Show is one of my all time.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  I know, Herbie Stumpel had to take a fall on Marty.

• 36:09Josh Horowitz?

  Marty all things.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  It just, that's like the biggest injustice in all.

• 36:15Josh Horowitz?

  Totally.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  But um, I it made me go sort of watch some of the Patty, the hospital, the Patty Chaff's network. And I it's it words.

• 36:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Incredible, like the I guess they're called kitchen sink.

• 36:32Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  You know, I love those and I I want, I feel like we need those back. We I feel like there's, there's, there should be a variety.

• 36:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Instead of.

• 36:49Josh Horowitz?

  We're well taken care of on one end.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 36:52Josh Horowitz?

  Now, we got that taken care of, guys.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  And um, for real, like, I feel like there, I I feel like there needs to be more.

• 37:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Kitchen kitchen sink.

• 37:04Josh Horowitz?

  We're gonna manifest.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:05Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, here's how we're gonna end this. This is gonna be a tough challenge for you. You ready? I've been doing this with actors that have amazing filmographies. I'm gonna pit some of your own movies against each other and you're gonna anoint the greatest Winona Ryder film of all time.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Okay, does it have to do with just the movie as a whole?

• 37:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you can separate your performance out of it, just like which, and it's a gut thing. This is not definitive, but just as I do this, bear with me. Here we go. You're gonna have to choose Black Swan versus Dracula.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Oh, wait, that's so hard.

• 37:32Josh Horowitz?

  I know it is.

• 37:36Josh Horowitz?

  Today, today, it's.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  So we I have to like imagine a world without one of those.

• 37:43Josh Horowitz?

  Something like that, yeah.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  That's terrible.

• 37:45Josh Horowitz?

  It's horrible. I agree.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  I mean, I feel like if I say. I feel like

• 37:52Josh Horowitz?

  You're not betraying either.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  It feels like a huge betrayal. And it it also feels. I I mean. I love Natalie so much and she was so brilliant in that.

• 38:06Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, I won't make you. This is not, you're not the right person for this. This is gonna wreck you. I don't want to destroy you. Then we'll do it this way. Tell me this. What's the film? You got sucked into Dracula recently. Is there a film that like you? Always get sucked into or will never watch again? Like, what's the whom you do always get sucked into or don't get sucked to into of your own filmography?

• 38:27Speaker 01

  Oh, of my own.

• 38:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  I was gonna talk about. John Sales because I I mean, I have been. Like every movie, every one of his movies is a master. Lone Star, the Ron Inish, I I mean. Brother from another planet. It's they're all such masterpieces and have this. Uh, anyway. I love John Sales. You know what? That question about? I wanted. To be offered a movie where I get to say. Words written by John Sales.

• 39:01Josh Horowitz?

  Why isn't it? I feel like he doesn't get the opportunity anymore. I. Yeah, we need more John Sales in the universe.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  John Sales.

• 39:07Josh Horowitz?

  All right, well, so but we'll end on this. Any of the illustrious Winona Ryder filmography that comes on TV? You will always get sucked into. You can separate yourself enough from.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  Yes, I know Heather's. I know every line. I it it would probably.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Oh, God, I think about some of the people that have probably like I can I can. Recite the entire thing as it's happening.

• 39:33Josh Horowitz?

  Favorite line from Heather's.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Um. That's that it it what it used to be. Uh, I don't patronize bunny rabbits. But I also love my Teen Angsp bullshit has a body count. And. You know, are we going to prom or to hell? I there it's literally every.

• 39:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Every um. Every scene there's just an absolute.

• 40:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Like. It it's just a brilliant, a brilliant script. And it, you know, I love it. Sucked. I get sucked into. I can't like it's sacrilege to turn off.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  Cathers, The Crucible.

• 40:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  That also, the language that I know all of the

• 40:26Speaker 01

  because it, there's no known recording of anyone speaking in that accent.

• 40:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Because it's the, what is it, fourteen ninety?

• 40:36Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  You know, it's, it's, it was sort of a mashup of like Boston and Irish and anyway, that, it feels like you, I can't turn that off. Obviously, age of innocence.

• 40:53Josh Horowitz?

  Alzheimer.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Um.

• 40:55Josh Horowitz?

  Too many.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Too many.

• 40:57Josh Horowitz?

  We'll, we'll continue this. You're, this is your fourth time on the podcast. I'll have you know. Fifth time, you get a free hat. You're gonna, yeah. So this is, if for no other reason, you have to come back for that.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 41:10Josh Horowitz?

  Um, thank you as always for the time, making time for me.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  We don't have more time.

• 41:15Josh Horowitz?

  There's always more time. We're gonna continue this. It's okay. The conversation will continue.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  I know. Are you gonna, can we do this for like the second?

• 41:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yes. Is it greenlit? Are we doing it?

• 41:26Speaker 01

  No, the, the, it's, it's being released.

• 41:28Josh Horowitz?

  In three parts, technically. Volume one, volume two, and then the finale.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  So we can continue this.

• 41:33Josh Horowitz?

  I'm, I'm game if you are.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:35Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. It's good to see you.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  I adore you. You're the best.

• 41:39Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Honestly.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 42:02Speaker 04

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• 42:32Speaker 04

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