Jessie Buckley & Paul Mescal

They're two of the greats of their generation so it's no surprise that when they come together something special emerges, namely Chloe Zhao's HAMNET. Jessie Buckley and Paul Mescal return to the podcast to talk about their very emotional film, how they literally danced off set to Rihanna, and their plans to reunite....in a James Bond film? UPCOMING EVENTS Walker Scobell 12/19 in NYC -- ⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠ Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 1:00Josh Horowitz?

  Want to see this guy as a Bond in a Denis Villeneuve movie? That makes it a little more interesting.

• 1:04Speaker 03

  Yes, please. As long as I can be the Bond girl and we can set it in Ireland.

• 1:09Josh Horowitz?

  This is a nice collaboration.

• 1:11Speaker 03

  If you know the My Bond girl. My Bond girl goes, James, it's me, the girlfriend, bear.

• 1:16Speaker 04

  Maybe I'll play James Bond, like, how will you get out?

• 1:18Speaker 03

  Also, nobody outside of Ireland has any idea what I've just said.

• 1:22Speaker 04

  But I do.

• 1:24Speaker 05

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 1:31Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys. Welcome to a special Happy Sad Confused. I say special every week, but this time, here's why I say it. We're talking Hamnet, one of the great films of the year, with two of the great actors of their generation, Jessie Buckley and Paul Mescal, back on the pod where they belong. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out Happy Sad Confused. Whether you're listening on your podcast app of choice, whether you're watching it on Spotify, where we're breaking new number records for the podcast, or on YouTube, I appreciate you, guys. Make sure to subscribe to Happy Sad Confused. It means a lot. And if you love what we do here, you want more of it, you want early access, you know what to do. Or if you don't, here's what to do. Patreon.com/happysadconfused.

• 2:15Josh Horowitz?

  Please, if you can, check it out, subscribe at any level you feel comfortable at. It helps us make more cool stuff for all of you, guys. As for this conversation, let's talk, guys. If you love movies and if you're listening to this podcast or watching it, you love movies. You know Hamnet is one of the special ones of the year. It is just now finally out in theaters. Those of us that have been lucky enough to see it at film festivals have been spreading the gospel of Hamnet for a while. I'm excited to see a broader audience finally experience this work from Chloe Zhao. It will break, it will break you in the best possible way. It's based on a book. It's inspired by William Shakespeare.

• 2:58Josh Horowitz?

  And it is a tale of love and loss and grief. And it is poetically told and brilliantly acted by the sublime Jessie Buckley and Paul Meskell. As I said, two of the greats of their generation. They've both been on the pod before, but it was lovely to chat with them together. This was actually recorded a while back at the Toronto Film Festival. One of the film festivals where Hamnet screened. So grateful that they made the time in Toronto for this. We've been holding on to it for a while because we want to make sure that everybody experienced this conversation when the film was actually out in theaters.

• 3:37Josh Horowitz?

  But there, I have such admiration for what Paul and Jessie have been doing in their careers and especially what they do in this movie. They obviously know each other quite well. They were in The Lost Daughter, but they are friends on and off screen. And, you know, it's a rare treat to get two actors of this caliber at this age together in a movie and in a conversation like this. So if you love great acting, great films, this podcast is a celebration of that always, but especially this episode devoted to Hamnet. Happy holidays if you're in the States or wherever you are, or in the holiday spirit, right? I hope you guys are enjoying time with family and friends, getting a little time off of work. And my gift to you today, whether it's Thanksgiving, the day before, day after,

• 4:21Josh Horowitz?

  is a really great conversation with Jessie Buckley, Paul Meskell, talking all things Hamnet and, and more. Enjoy. Guys, we're here. Jessie, Paul, it's good to see you both. Hey.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  No crying, John.

• 4:40Josh Horowitz?

  No crying, no crying.

• 4:41Speaker 04

  Hey, we're here. That's the main thing now.

• 4:43Josh Horowitz?

  We're here. We're alive and well. We're spreading the good word of your beautiful, beautiful movie, Hamnet is the film. It is a good barometer for whether you're a human being. If this movie works for you, you're a human being. All the organs are working, the heart is working.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:59Josh Horowitz?

  Congratulations. Okay, so let's talk. This is, I feel like Paul, first of all, this is like the reverse of our Gladiator press tour.

• 5:06Speaker 04

  This is the reverse of the Gladiator, yes.

• 5:08Josh Horowitz?

  Because also, in like, I spoke to Paul, it was like his last interview of like, that press tour, essentially.

• 5:12Speaker 04

  I want to like publicly apologize for how like, I was, I felt like I was on death door at the end of that.

• 5:18Josh Horowitz?

  No, I loved it. It was like his exit interview. You were fantastic. But now we're at the beginning of this long journey for you guys. How are you feeling? You have each other to lead on through this madness. How's it going so far?

• 5:30Speaker 03

  I'm gonna be like such a wifey, but you've just got like one hair just going.

• 5:33Speaker 04

  Thank you so much.

• 5:34Speaker 03

  I'll be looking at the whole interview.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  You're very good.

• 5:38Speaker 03

  If I didn't take that.

• 5:39Josh Horowitz?

  Enough about Hamnet, I want to talk about his grooming problems.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  I'll be picking his nose now.

• 5:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:44Speaker 03

  Um, how are we feeling? Great. It's such a nice, A, it's just such a nice group. Um, we all love each other and it's been, I mean, it's always vulnerable, sharing a film for the first time, no matter what it is. But I think how we made this, what it felt like making it, um, you know, our hearts were kind of cracked open and so you were just a little bit more tender, putting something out. And as Chloe said, it's like your baby's taking its first step. And, um, it was so nice kind of putting it out in Telluride, where you were in the mountains. It was like a gentle letting go. And now it's exciting.

• 6:28Speaker 04

  It's exciting. It's like only been a week, really. It's like been a fast week.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:32Speaker 04

  The first audience to saw it and yeah.

• 6:34Josh Horowitz?

  It's gonna be interesting, like as you kind of go through, as more people in the world see this movie, because the nature of this film, and one of, one of the many reasons I love film in general in a film like this is like, you connect your own personal experiences. You can't help it. The grief, the loss that we've all experienced. Um, and they're gonna like, when they see you in the street, when people see you the rest of their lives, next couple of years, they're going to like connect, they're gonna bring their own stuff.

• 6:59Speaker 04

  To, yeah.

• 7:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:01Josh Horowitz?

  So I'm just warning you, I guess.

• 7:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, we do. Walking along and kind of debriefing. This gorgeous woman was just like.

• 7:10Speaker 03

  She like lost her dad.

• 7:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:13Speaker 04

  It was intense.

• 7:15Speaker 03

  But that's also, I mean, it's, it's, what I've, what I'm learning is like you kind of, with a film like this, you have to learn to contain the emotions that might come out for people after this, you know, it's not really about you.

• 7:30Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 7:31Speaker 03

  Um, and you always hope to make something that will affect.

• 7:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. In, in many different ways, whether that's, they want, you want to affect them to imagine themselves on the moon. They want to, but the fact that this has brought such emotion and such a personal experience to, to people and giving them an access to, um, transcend through things that maybe are too hard to hold on their own, um, is a gift.

• 7:57Speaker 04

  Oh my god, yeah.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  Uh, so anybody's welcome to come up.

• 8:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:01Josh Horowitz?

  It's our ball.

• 8:03Speaker 03

  We're gonna just start carrying around.

• 8:04Speaker 04

  We're gonna set up a little stall.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  Tissues, yeah.

• 8:07Josh Horowitz?

  I'm gonna get my fanny pack here with my tissues for you. Here, I'm ready for you. What's the, uh, what's the wrap party like for something like Hamnet? Like after you've gone through this like crazy experience?

• 8:19Josh Horowitz?

  Was it unique? Was it like, kind of like a letting go of like, what was a singular experience in a special way or, or what? How did you decompress together or apart?

• 8:27Speaker 04

  We walked home, I remember.

• 8:28Speaker 03

  We did. We got locked. You got a line bike at the end of the night. We walked.

• 8:32Speaker 04

  We got a line bike over.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  We had a big party, first of all.

• 8:35Speaker 04

  First of all, yeah.

• 8:37Josh Horowitz?

  Dancing, music?

• 8:38Speaker 03

  There was, yeah. DJ, dancing, like mosh pit kind of. I think everybody was like, I need, we need to go out.

• 8:50Speaker 03

  Jesus. Yeah, and almost maybe too much.

• 8:53Speaker 04

  Oh, they always end up roughly being a disappointment.

• 8:56Speaker 03

  It's too, it can be feel, I'll tell you what was a great ending was at the last day in the globe, the end of the shoot.

• 9:04Speaker 04

  That was gorgeous.

• 9:05Speaker 03

  The, we did a, Chloe does like a dance Friday, like every, like we do after the big emotional scenes, we do a huge dance off. And so we like, the crew, they spent about three hours setting up the camera for this shot for the last dance off, which included like the crew, three hundred extras, all the like, e- everybody who was involved in it. We all danced to Rihanna's.

• 9:31Speaker 04

  We found love.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  We found love.

• 9:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:32Speaker 03

  And I think this will come out at some point, this dance moment. It is incredible. Cause the whole like ma, like.

• 9:41Speaker 04

  The club was hopping.

• 9:41Speaker 03

  It's hopping.

• 9:43Josh Horowitz?

  We have seismic activity around this area.

• 9:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:46Josh Horowitz?

  It's the rap party for Hamlet, actually.

• 9:47Speaker 03

  And everybody's in like period costumes, well, and like everybody with these amazing faces of all these like jumping up and down. So that felt like their.

• 9:56Speaker 04

  That's spiritual and.

• 9:57Speaker 03

  Catharsis out of this. And then after the rap party, you and me, we walked home.

• 10:03Speaker 04

  That was lovely.

• 10:03Speaker 03

  That was so nice. We walked, it was about two AM, we walked along the canal.

• 10:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:09Josh Horowitz?

  I will say like talking, like, you know, Chloe is such a singular human being filmmaker, um, like seeing this at Telluride. And she did this amazing thing, which I guess she does with all of you guys each day, this like meditative kind of moment, which I'm so not that person generally. But Chloe can, got me in, like I'm ready.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  How did you find it?

• 10:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. I know, I'm, again, like I said, like my, my, you know, I'm a cynical, horrible New Yorker, very practical, like I don't do meditation or anything. I was like, oh, I could get with the Chloe Zhao app, like meditation app, like I need this in my life. Um, it like, it, it really added, I mean, I don't, I must have added something like, I don't know, give me a sense of like what she, the tenor she sets on set. Cause it clearly translates into the finished material, um, but just her as, as a, as a presence, as a force on set and how that informed the film.

• 11:02Speaker 04

  She that kind of what like that's a micro version of.

• 11:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:06Speaker 04

  Of we wouldn't do that every single morning, but it was like.

• 11:10Speaker 03

  We didn't do that every morning.

• 11:11Speaker 04

  But it's kind of indicative of kind of the way that she's able to curate an energy onset.

• 11:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:16Speaker 04

  Like she's able to, sometimes we would do a form of meditation. Other times it would be through kind of the messages we would send each other in the morning or.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  Music.

• 11:27Speaker 04

  Music that we would send.

• 11:28Speaker 03

  I think what that moment is an example of is Chloe invites you into a world.

• 11:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, right.

• 11:36Speaker 03

  And we are in such as, you know, as humans, we are so addicted to a sensational experience that to actually stop and take a breath and recognize where you're about to go.

• 11:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  Uh, takes a moment of consciousness or a breath to like get invite yourself into that wo- world and um, yeah, and she's so sensitive like that and and that was shared between everybody, the crew, you know, to the point where we were all kind of working like an orchestra together. So the tone of the the tone of what the moment was requiring of you was set by the this by Chloe and how she led that and it was never dogmatic. It was done with just.

• 12:23Josh Horowitz?

  You will relax for me. You will meditate for me because that's not the way to do it.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 12:30Josh Horowitz?

  I'm relaxed, okay.

• 13:09Speaker 06

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• 13:42Josh Horowitz?

  I think you both have said something approximately the same to me in that like, the experience is what matters, right? The experience of making the film. The bonus is obviously what comes with it. This is a different side of it. But like, it's about the journey. It's about what you guys get to do together on set, the collaborative nature. As you start to look back at this experience, in what ways was this a unique experience? Whether it's the Chloe, Zawid, the material, working with each other? What sets this apart from other brilliant work you guys have been a part of?

• 14:18Speaker 03

  Oh, um, well, many things for me. I think sometimes like a story and somebody's like soul and a character and the people that you're working with just meet you at the right time of your life, you know? I don't think you can kind of generate that experience. It just is a bit of mercurial magic. And this felt like that in all, you know, the fact that Chloe met this book and then we met Chloe and Lukas and, and just where we all were as well at that, at this moment

• 15:01Speaker 03

  of our lives. I feel like that was the kind of, yeah, that's what made this more, this experience the way it was.

• 15:16Speaker 03

  But also, I think.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  I mean, we've both been very lucky to work with incredible directors and artists and crews and other actors. But I think what Chloe reminded me of anyway was the.

• 15:35Speaker 03

  That actually being an artist and being creative is the only thing that matters.

• 15:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:41Speaker 03

  And that's something that is rare, more rare, like rare in this industry more and more. And she is uncompromising as an artist. Her process is totally protected about what she wants to experience as an artist. And and that is never at the consequence of a budget or going over time. Like, we never had any of that experience because she was so clear about what was necessary for her to unravel the story.

• 16:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:11Speaker 03

  As a company, but also within herself. And it just, it was, it was like a breath of fresh air. And we ignited how tender it can be to work like this again.

• 16:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, because as you, I mean, you guys have been privileged. You have worked with some amazing filmmakers that do cultivate really like collaborative environments. But that's not the norm. There's a, I mean, sadly, there are a lot of experiences where it's like, time is money. And we're like, it's about just getting the shots of a day. And it sounds like someone like Chloe and some of the other filmmakers you've worked with, it's really about creating a vibe and like a. And an environment where you can explore all together and have the time and not the, the pressure, the inherent pressures of making a movie to.

• 16:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:54Josh Horowitz?

  To find something truthful.

• 16:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:55Speaker 04

  Totally. Like, that's her, that's Chloe's modus operandi is like, you would arrive, if something wasn't working, you never felt, oh, we're not going to make the day. I always.

• 17:05Speaker 03

  No.

• 17:06Speaker 04

  Always felt we were going to make it. It was just we weren't sniffing in the right area yet.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  And if something didn't work or didn't serve the like aliveness in the scene, she would discard it. And and she would see, you know, you're, I guess, she's a curious artist who's looking for the most live moment that's, that's there.

• 17:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:27Speaker 03

  You know, she's not trying to build an ego ship around it.

• 17:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, yes.

• 17:33Speaker 03

  Um, she's trying to go more human, which is, I think scary or it's scary to be more human.

• 17:42Speaker 04

  Agreed.

• 17:44Speaker 03

  Especially this morning.

• 17:45Speaker 04

  This morning.

• 17:47Josh Horowitz?

  Can we all just be soulless robots and just not think or feel for a second?

• 17:51Speaker 04

  This morning.

• 17:52Josh Horowitz?

  That's for the morning, maybe. Um, I mean, yeah, I was saying before about like folks like connecting with it on a personal level. I found myself like thinking about losses I've experienced and and stuff, watching this. I mean, do you go there? I mean, I imagine you guys must like connect when you're whether in the moment or preparing and like, that's what it is about, I guess, connecting to your own personal experiences in some ways.

• 18:15Speaker 04

  Like where that's available to you, like the, and then other times, I don't know about you, Jess, but sometimes you're imagining, like your imagination can be very powerful when you're trying, like I'm feel very lucky that I haven't like lost a child, but your brain as an actor, you I feel a massive responsibility with this to like, kind of,

• 18:36Speaker 04

  we're playing and we're representing parents who've lost children and and and I I I find that to be a great responsibility. And it's it's a tough place to kind of put your

• 18:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:53Speaker 04

  Put your brain for two months, three months, four months, however long it takes.

• 18:59Speaker 03

  I didn't think about my dad.

• 19:04Speaker 03

  I did. Compatriots.

• 19:08Josh Horowitz?

  That was hard that way.

• 19:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I I don't really work like that. I like, for me, you know, you've got these brilliant people in front of you and little Jacoby's face and Paul's face and Emily's face and uh, I don't need

• 19:23Josh Horowitz?

  That doesn't work.

• 19:24Speaker 03

  Anything else, like, um, if anything, just try and

• 19:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:29Speaker 03

  live in that world. I don't need to, I don't need to bring my own shit into it. Like I can do that all by myself.

• 19:38Josh Horowitz?

  You um, you surprised Paul, I believe, with by nearly punching him in the film. Is that, is that, is that a Paul Meskell special? Do you only do that for Paul? Would you do that with other co-stars?

• 19:47Speaker 03

  I'm not going to tell you.

• 19:50Speaker 03

  Then what's the point? It's not a surprise.

• 19:51Josh Horowitz?

  You want to keep the rest of them on their toes?

• 19:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I want people quaking in their boots.

• 19:56Josh Horowitz?

  Just like. I'm ready, just in case.

• 20:02Josh Horowitz?

  On your end, Paul, was that like an exciting moment in a way?

• 20:05Speaker 04

  Oh, come on, absolutely. Like, so, like, we, like, we were talking about this yesterday, like, not for a second was I, like, concerned, like, I was just like, in, in, in the best sense, I was like, if Jessie hits me in the face, brilliant, if she doesn't, great, like, I just felt like we were at that point in the shoot. We weren't really taught, we never really spoke about what we were ever gonna do, and it just felt like a really

• 20:33Speaker 04

  collaborative feeling of like, being totally in your body and out of your head, which I feel like I'm constantly wrestling with as an actor, where you're like, trying to shut this little, like,

• 20:40Josh Horowitz?

  That's the key, that's the whole thing.

• 20:41Speaker 04

  This little machine off, and I found, I found working with Jessie was like, probably the easiest I've ever had of just like, being in my body.

• 20:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:50Speaker 04

  And kind of wordlessly, just kind of walking around the set squeezing, like, each other's shoulder and leaving, and then just going into a take.

• 20:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:57Josh Horowitz?

  Almost ruins the face of, you know, America's sweetheart over here, the world sweetheart, Paul Mesk.

• 21:02Speaker 03

  I think it would take a lot more for me to bring this thing.

• 21:08Josh Horowitz?

  Let's embarrass each other. If an actor came to you and asked what it's like to work with the other, if they were like, give me, give me the prep, what's it like to work with Paul, what's it like to work with Jessie, what would you say?

• 21:17Speaker 04

  Jessie, I'd like, I have long admired Jessie, but like, to work with her, to watch her work is one thing, to work with her was one of the most exhilarating experiences. She, like, like, Chloe was a huge leader on this, but like, I would also say that, like, Jessie led us as a company of actors through it, it was like, it's old school, leading actor behavior, where she just took us all through it, and like, the colors of her performance in this, the way she's kind of like, uncompromising in terms of if something doesn't smell right to Jessie, she just will rigorously figure out a way through it. I, I, I, I, I just loved every single

• 22:02Speaker 04

  second working with her. She just broke my heart. Totally broke my heart.

• 22:07Josh Horowitz?

  You don't have to reciprocate, you can just be silent and say nothing at that point.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  I didn't really like it.

• 22:12Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, he's all right.

• 22:14Speaker 03

  No, I, I, um.

• 22:18Speaker 03

  I it honestly felt like, and I think we both would say this, that, oh, we're going to meet each other again and again, in a kind of old school way, like, kind of, it felt like Cassavetes in general, it's like we were like, just in a, in a, it's, it's, um, just the kinetic kind of trust and possibility. And again, you know, I, I, I knew Paul as a person, I didn't know him as well as I know him now. And I also had such respect for him

• 22:58Speaker 03

  in his work, but, um, I think when you have that level of trust and you also feel like you can contain the biggest parts of each other and you meet that person as a, as a partner on set, um, and it's not in your head, it's just like, it's totally unknowable, you know, it's, it's just this force where anything's possible. And Paul is a giant, like, he's got a giant capacity. And also, I think what makes Paul so kind of, why everybody falls in love with Paul, and he moves people, is he, is his heart, he's like, got this tenderness,

• 23:43Speaker 03

  which doesn't, isn't like, held by a masculine ego, or like, trying, he will go to the ugliest, most human, most tender, sensitive place, while also being this giant of a man. And when you get to, um, spur.

• 24:08Speaker 03

  With that, you just, it's like, every kind of texture of what it is to be a human gets brought out. And I, I, I really, really hope this is just the first time we get to do this. Like, I think it would be so thrilling to meet each other at different moments of our lives and, and see where we can go next.

• 24:33Speaker 04

  They signed me up yesterday.

• 24:35Josh Horowitz?

  I, I do want that, yeah, I mean, thanks, Jesse. Paul, we've discussed like your propensity to make films that are designed, it seems, to wreck people. So, I mean, it continues. I thought we were done, but we were just getting started, apparently. You're like, I think you've out Blue Valentine, Blue Valentine at this point.

• 24:50Speaker 04

  Oh, that, I, I saw Derek see in France last night. I was like, oh.

• 24:57Josh Horowitz?

  Have you met Derek before?

• 24:58Speaker 04

  I have, I have, but like, whenever I see him, I'm like.

• 25:04Josh Horowitz?

  So where do we rank in terms of like the, the wrecking, the, the emotional, um, I don't know, the, the power of these films, like All the Strangers, Normal People, like, what's the order of films they should watch if they want to have a good cry?

• 25:18Speaker 04

  I like, I, I don't know, I like, I probably start with Normal People and then let them off, I say.

• 25:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't know. It, I, I, I, I, I think it's probably something that I'm, we spoke briefly about this the last time. I think I'm drawn to watching stories like that. I'm drawn to being in them. I feel like that's what I want to say with the art that I want to

• 25:45Speaker 04

  be making. It's like, that's, you know, we spoke a bit about this. It's like, you have, uh, I don't really know how to articulate, but you'd like, there's certain painters that you like because they have a certain style. And I think that like, the more I'm doing it, the more I'm interested in playing with the style, but not necessarily trying to just like,

• 26:05Speaker 04

  paint like Jessie Buckley, because she paints like Jessie Buckley. I don't want to kind of do my thing until I get bored of myself.

• 26:13Josh Horowitz?

  The last time you were on the pod with Olivia, we were talking about James Bond. You were joking about you want just like the one line role as the Bond girl. Want to see this guy as a Bond in a Denis Villeneuve movie? That makes it a little more interesting.

• 26:26Speaker 03

  Ah, yes, please. As long as I can be the Bond girl and we can set it in Ireland.

• 26:31Josh Horowitz?

  This is a nice collaboration.

• 26:32Speaker 04

  Can you imagine?

• 26:33Speaker 03

  Did you know that my Bond girl?

• 26:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  My Bond girl goes, James, it's me, the girlfriend, bear.

• 26:38Speaker 04

  Maybe I'll play James Bond like, how will you get out?

• 26:40Speaker 03

  Nobody outside of Ireland has any idea what I've just said.

• 26:44Josh Horowitz?

  I, but I do. I had to slow the tape down and then I got it.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just do a very.

• 26:49Speaker 04

  Say it again, what did you say?

• 26:50Speaker 03

  James, it's me, the girlfriend, bear.

• 26:51Speaker 04

  Hello, you stop.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  Will you stop? Come over here now.

• 26:58Josh Horowitz?

  We're workshopping it. I think it could work.

• 27:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:01Speaker 03

  I'm waiting for Denis.

• 27:06Josh Horowitz?

  Who loves, who loves music festivals more? I know you're a big music festival person. Are you as well?

• 27:11Speaker 03

  I love a music festival.

• 27:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay.

• 27:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:13Speaker 04

  Big time, yeah.

• 27:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:15Josh Horowitz?

  Can you rank them for me? I'm not a musical festival person, like in the Glastonbury's, Coachella's, like what's the, what's the vibe for each? Give me the dummy's guide to music festivals.

• 27:25Speaker 03

  I've never gone to Coachella.

• 27:26Speaker 04

  I've been, I'm, I'm gonna probably get stick for this. I, I don't like Coachella whatsoever.

• 27:31Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 27:32Speaker 04

  It's a bit like bougie.

• 27:36Josh Horowitz?

  Canceled.

• 27:36Speaker 04

  It's like a boo, I'm so fucked.

• 27:41Josh Horowitz?

  The world loved him and then it came to an end.

• 27:44Speaker 04

  Just blew it all up. I love Glastonbury. I find it like to be such a like.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  Incredible.

• 27:50Speaker 04

  Hugely like, kind of almost like spiritual place.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  It's like even how it's a city, like, and, and the amount of creativity there is just.

• 27:59Speaker 04

  It's just amazing.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  And whatever flavor you want, you can find.

• 28:05Josh Horowitz?

  You, you, you both have a tremendous amount of musical talent. Have you ever sung together in any capacity on set, karaoke, anything?

• 28:12Speaker 04

  The last daughter.

• 28:14Speaker 03

  Oh, God, Jesus.

• 28:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, we.

• 28:17Speaker 03

  That was great.

• 28:18Speaker 04

  That was great crack.

• 28:19Josh Horowitz?

  Now, that was gorgeous. What was the song? What was the context?

• 28:23Speaker 03

  Oh, no, it wasn't. It was many. We, it was, and it was Olivia Colman's book. We, we were, it was like, it's always.

• 28:29Speaker 04

  Scene of the crime. Always at the scene of the crime.

• 28:32Speaker 03

  She's always at the scene of the crime.

• 28:35Speaker 03

  We would go up to her room late at night and after a day shooting and all sit in her roof and drink a hell of a lot of rosé and have a huge sing song till about three AM and I would be like, shit, I need to get, I'm picking up at like in three hours. And but yeah, we'd great, that was great.

• 28:54Speaker 04

  My first ever film job and I was like, hang out with you guys. And I was like, this is what everybody just drinks rosé till three o'clock in the morning. And if you call me, scream at you to sing songs and of course you're gonna sing them and you're like, trying to learn new ones so you don't bore everyone by the end of the week two.

• 29:10Josh Horowitz?

  You're quickly on your phone like getting your ex up.

• 29:14Josh Horowitz?

  Any songs stick out in any particular memory?

• 29:16Speaker 04

  Jesse has got the most extraordinary voice. Jesse shuts the bar down when she starts singing.

• 29:21Speaker 03

  Oh my god, come on. We did together.

• 29:24Josh Horowitz?

  She's the ringer at the karaoke.

• 29:25Speaker 03

  We did, yeah, we did do that.

• 29:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:28Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 29:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:29Josh Horowitz?

  Speaking of, I spoke to Harris, I caught up with Harris on the podcast, legend.

• 29:33Speaker 03

  He's the loveliest man in the world.

• 29:36Speaker 04

  He's a perfect man.

• 29:37Josh Horowitz?

  It's kind of annoying.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  My husband is like, I'm going, I can't wait to see it.

• 29:41Josh Horowitz?

  It's so good.

• 29:42Speaker 04

  It's so good.

• 29:42Josh Horowitz?

  How is this possible?

• 29:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 04

  Because he's like, I think he's like an unbelievable man, unbelievable artist. He's like, just, I'm so happy for him.

• 29:51Josh Horowitz?

  So he says you guys have been kind of starting to work, to like, to like, do the music together, to like, get into it.

• 29:57Speaker 04

  We've been in it for like months now. It's like, we're really putting the foot down with it. It's so.

• 30:02Josh Horowitz?

  How surreal, how insane is it to be the Beatles together, that group, like trying to approximate that vibe, that music?

• 30:09Speaker 04

  It's, it's, it's just like, like, like that material, getting to like, hang out with your friends and go into that world and like, to have all of that music that we have access to that could be in any of the films and you're just like, it's an education.

• 30:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:24Speaker 04

  And in all of it, it's so thrilling.

• 30:26Josh Horowitz?

  Is part of it also just the volume of material a little intimidating? You're gonna make, you're literally making four movies. That's, that's a lot.

• 30:32Speaker 04

  That's what like, I think, I think as a group now, we've settled on the fact like we're, we've kind of put that thought to bed. Like, we know it's four films. We know it's a, we know it's volume, but it's also the most rehearsal time. Like we've been, me and Harris have been in for like six months now. Like rehearsing and, yeah, and the boys as well.

• 30:59Speaker 00

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• 32:03Josh Horowitz?

  The other thing that I was gonna say about Harrison with respect to you guys is like, it really strikes me that your generation of actors, one of the things I really love is that you're in it for the right reasons. You have great taste. Like, yes, you've done the Gladiators, but I know what you're... And I loved Gladiator. We talked.

• 32:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:20Josh Horowitz?

  But I know where your true hearts lie and the kind of people that you want to work with, the kind of careers you want to have. It does feel like there is, for lack of a better term, this like, letterboxed generation. Like, this, like, I don't know. Do you feel like kind of a camaraderie of the actors in your generation that, like, you're kind of part of a wave of actors that are, I don't know, they have like, true artistic aspirations?

• 32:42Speaker 04

  I do believe that. I said, like, I think a lot of my best friends are some of the best actors in the world, or my favorite actors in the world. Like, I think we're so lucky, like, Andrew, Colly, Harris. Josh. Josh, all of these, like...

• 32:56Speaker 03

  Claire, yeah.

• 32:57Speaker 04

  Like, it's...

• 32:59Speaker 03

  I I do believe that our friends are in it for the right reasons. Yeah, and it's also like, I think we all have the same hunger to uh find a new language as well amongst ourselves as as uh you know, next generation, the way that Willem Dafoe and Fran McDormand, you know, like these people were kind of cultural shapeshifters and seekers and looking for ways to um make film grow to the next point. And I think we all are so kind of, we all want that and are encouraging each other and like looking at Harris doing what he's doing to kind of

• 33:41Speaker 03

  take a risk and find his language or Chloe or, you know, that's that's it. We all are feeding a kind of something that can live beyond us as well. And in the same way that the films that we've loved and inspired us have like changed who we are as artists. And there are so many amazing creative ambitions. and creative people. It's just like one, it's so hard to make films. Yeah. Like, it's impossible. It's a miracle. Every, I always say, every good film is a miracle. And like we were saying, you know, you walk around Telly Ride or Tiff or LFF and the like, the the

• 34:22Speaker 03

  landscape of people's imaginations and their singular imaginations, it's just so incredible that you can bottle into Chloe Zhao film, to Joachim Trier, to Yorgos Lanthimos and see that their perspective of the world is so singular and so full. And it's our responsibility as well, I feel like, to keep that alive, you know, we can't homogenize and become the like kind of status quo because of how many followers, you know, I think the people that we are are live around, we we're not beholden to how many followers we have. We actually want to create something. Imagine that. And actually be good at what we do. Yeah.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  And not be quantified on what, how many people follow us. Like, I think.

• 35:08Speaker 04

  Because we might not have this like metaphor, like microphone for forever. Like, you know, like we have an opportunity where we're working with the Chloe Joes of the world and they want, like, there's an obligation to like know what you want to say with the opportunity that you have.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  And how much you need a community to help you realize that. Like, none of us can do these things on our own.

• 35:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 35:29Speaker 03

  Filmmakers take villages and and that's where the, that's where the new, the when there's a collision of ideas, that's when the new thought can come through. Um, that's great.

• 35:40Speaker 04

  That's great.

• 35:41Josh Horowitz?

  And talk about like the non homogenized kind of filmmaker. You worked with Maggie again, like getting a big canvas, like it's a bigger film, but it sounds wild what the bride is gonna be. I can only imagine just from the few images I've seen. It's bananas in a good way. You're excited?

• 35:58Speaker 03

  I'm so excited. I had like such a wild creative time making that with her and Christian and with the whole team. And again, that's somebody who is pushing the ceiling. Um, to like let a new language come through and Maggie is a punk through and through. She's uncompromising, she's brave. Um, and to play in a sandpit as big as that for both of us was just thrilling. And yeah, we need more women playing in those sandpits.

• 36:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:32Speaker 03

  In order to like fill that space and um, I'm really excited. I can't wait.

• 36:38Josh Horowitz?

  You've been collecting some of the greatest film, female filmmakers alive the last few years. You're like a Greta and a Sofia away from like the box set of awesome female filmmakers of all time. You're doing good. You're doing good. Um, I want to say also, I've seen you both on stage. Uh, you're both remarkable. You've got some stuff like you're planning way ahead. You 2027, I'm gonna see you in two things.

• 37:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, twenty seven. That's the salesman whistle in the dark. Yeah.

• 37:04Josh Horowitz?

  So you're Biff, you're not Willie, you're not already, you're not Willie stage quite yet.

• 37:08Speaker 04

  Look, let's see how the next two years. Bring my suitcase on. The grays are coming in, so they're coming in hard and fast.

• 37:16Josh Horowitz?

  Who, who, who's your Willie? Is Jesse your Willie woman?

• 37:19Speaker 04

  I know who it is and I'm not, I can't wait for the world to, I am so excited. I'm so excited.

• 37:26Josh Horowitz?

  Off mic, I need to know this.

• 37:27Speaker 04

  I'll tell you off mic, I'll tell you, it's. I I I've never, stage animal, amazing actor. Yeah, I want to say it.

• 37:37Josh Horowitz?

  Oh my god, it's Vin Diesel. He's.

• 37:39Speaker 04

  It's Vin Diesel. It's Vin Diesel. Yeah. You got it right, you didn't want.

• 37:46Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, some random stuff for you. Let's think. Uh, last YouTube rabbit hole you went down. You you guys, what's what's your distraction?

• 37:52Speaker 04

  Baseball. Baseball. I'm huge into baseball these days.

• 37:56Josh Horowitz?

  Our new point of connection, amazing.

• 37:58Speaker 04

  I watched yesterday half an hour video on what teams got the most ejections, what umpire gives the most ejections, what players have been, I know.

• 38:07Josh Horowitz?

  Random.

• 38:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, very, I find it very soothing and I just love the sport.

• 38:12Speaker 03

  Mine's mine are.

• 38:15Speaker 03

  Mine's babies getting x-rays, which is like.

• 38:18Josh Horowitz?

  What?

• 38:20Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, but do look at it. It is, they look really funny.

• 38:24Josh Horowitz?

  I think we should.

• 38:24Speaker 03

  They go into like a tube and they don't know what they're doing in there, obviously. It's like kind of, you know, like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory when the thing gets sucked off the chocolate.

• 38:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, of course.

• 38:34Speaker 04

  Chocolate, yeah.

• 38:35Josh Horowitz?

  Chocolate cylinder.

• 38:36Speaker 04

  Chocolate.

• 38:37Josh Horowitz?

  The elevator, yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 04

  Chocolate sucky up there.

• 38:41Josh Horowitz?

  I did play Mike TV in my camp production, so I'm an actor too, guys. I know how to do what you do.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 38:48Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, two different kind of rabbit holes. Interesting. Um, any music recommendations? I always look to you. Mitski, way back in the day, what's the latest? Do you look to Paul for music, Rex, or what's?

• 38:58Speaker 04

  Jesse's the music, but we.

• 38:59Speaker 03

  Both of us.

• 39:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:01Speaker 03

  Um, oh god.

• 39:04Speaker 04

  There's an artist I love at the moment called Jake Minch.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 39:07Speaker 04

  Like a young artist, amazing songwriter.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. I have no brain.

• 39:14Speaker 04

  You're an amazing man.

• 39:15Speaker 03

  Do you know that band? I have no brain.

• 39:17Speaker 04

  Chocolate sucky up there.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  Oh, Glastonbury, I have no brain. That's a kind of good band name.

• 39:24Speaker 04

  It is good.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  I love Fontaine's DC.

• 39:26Speaker 04

  They're so.

• 39:27Speaker 03

  Fontaine's DC are like.

• 39:29Speaker 04

  They're fucking unbelievable.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  Amazing. I love them. He's a poet.

• 39:33Speaker 04

  He's a poet, like old school rock star.

• 39:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:36Josh Horowitz?

  All right, we're gonna end with this, the happy, sad, confused, profoundly random questions. You've answered some of these before. I don't think I got to this last time, but collectively, let's do this thing. Are you dogs or cats? Where are you guys?

• 39:46Speaker 03

  Dog.

• 39:46Speaker 04

  Dog.

• 39:47Josh Horowitz?

  You said it was such like, I mean, I'm with you, but like.

• 39:49Speaker 03

  I don't like cats.

• 39:52Speaker 04

  Fuck cats, honestly. Fuck them.

• 39:55Josh Horowitz?

  Are you actively trying to ruin your career?

• 39:59Speaker 03

  Coachella.

• 40:00Speaker 04

  Coachella, ah, yeah.

• 40:01Josh Horowitz?

  Fuck cats.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  Cats are mean. Cats are mean.

• 40:05Speaker 04

  Drop this, bro.

• 40:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:06Speaker 04

  Cats, they're too clever.

• 40:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:08Speaker 03

  I got like, when I, my husband, when I started dating him, he had two cats. This is bad as well. I'm gonna get cancelled. But the, one of the cats was like a pedigree model bitch. And she staged like a coup against me. I'd come home and there'd just be like poo on my pillow. And I was like, it's me or the cats. It's me.

• 40:30Josh Horowitz?

  She didn't like this interloper. This is my house.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  No.

• 40:33Josh Horowitz?

  And you took over.

• 40:33Speaker 03

  But I won.

• 40:38Josh Horowitz?

  What do you guys collect, if anything?

• 40:43Speaker 04

  What do we collect?

• 40:44Speaker 03

  Oh, I have an awful collection of, by mistake, mostly, but my measuring skills are atrocious.

• 40:54Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  And the amount, there has been many times in my life where I thought I've ordered like a well-priced, reclaimed wood chest of drawers, have cleared spaces in my room. And I have watched the delivery van come and it's like this small size, like this size.

• 41:12Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, I thought it was gonna go the other way. You couldn't fit into your home.

• 41:14Speaker 03

  Oh, no, no, they're like tiny. So I have a, a, a, quite a good, significant collection of tiny things. And I do actually like tiny things. Like, yeah, so I have, that's me.

• 41:27Speaker 04

  I can't remember what I said last time. I don't know. I don't, I'm not a big collector of things.

• 41:31Josh Horowitz?

  You're not a hoarder. That's okay.

• 41:32Speaker 04

  Experiences.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  I'm trying to like recover.

• 41:39Speaker 04

  I'm just trying to wheel.

• 41:41Josh Horowitz?

  Internet, love me again, love me.

• 41:42Speaker 04

  Please, please.

• 41:44Josh Horowitz?

  A couple more quick ones. This is the Dakota Johnson memorial question. She asked me this. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 41:52Speaker 03

  Bee in my butt.

• 41:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 41:53Josh Horowitz?

  That's collective wisdom. Yeah, that's the correct answer. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 41:58Speaker 03

  My baby.

• 42:00Speaker 04

  My girlfriend.

• 42:02Josh Horowitz?

  Last actor you were mistaken for, either of you?

• 42:05Speaker 04

  Vin Diesel.

• 42:08Speaker 04

  No.

• 42:08Speaker 03

  No, God, I don't know if I.

• 42:10Josh Horowitz?

  Does it ever happen?

• 42:11Speaker 03

  No.

• 42:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's I don't get that either, yeah.

• 42:14Josh Horowitz?

  Worst noted director has ever given you. You gave me one, but let's see if you, Jesse, you have something?

• 42:21Speaker 03

  Um, I think somebody told me I was like playing a complicated woman, obviously.

• 42:27Josh Horowitz?

  That's her thing.

• 42:28Speaker 03

  My niche. And they told me not to be have guilt or that I should have guilt. And I just thought you've called the wrong woman. I don't, I mean, I've got enough guilt. I don't need to give any women any more guilt.

• 42:45Speaker 04

  I would like to see your face when that note came in. I could, I could, I can see it.

• 42:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:51Josh Horowitz?

  Love it. Okay. And then finally, in the spirit of happy, sad confused, an actor who always makes you happy, you see them on screen, you're instantly happier.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  Harry Dean Stanton.

• 42:59Josh Horowitz?

  Nice, I like that.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  And Juliette and Lizzina.

• 43:03Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 43:04Speaker 03

  I know they're both dead.

• 43:05Speaker 04

  Even though he's like recently did the whole Severance thing, and even though Adam Scott is playing somebody incredibly different, Adam Scott is making me incredibly happy when I see him on screen.

• 43:14Josh Horowitz?

  Love it. Movie that makes you sad? I know, I mean, you can go Blue Valentine or anything else.

• 43:19Speaker 03

  Blue Valentine.

• 43:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, we, yeah.

• 43:21Josh Horowitz?

  Is Blue Valentine for you too?

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:22Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. And finally, a food that makes you confused.

• 43:27Josh Horowitz?

  You don't get it. Why do people like that?

• 43:28Speaker 04

  Olives.

• 43:29Josh Horowitz?

  That was you.

• 43:30Speaker 04

  Wasn't me last time.

• 43:30Josh Horowitz?

  It was him. You're consistent at least. There you go.

• 43:34Speaker 03

  Um, God. Like macaroni cheese.

• 43:40Speaker 04

  Oh, come on.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  No, I'm sorry. It's the beige-est experience.

• 43:44Speaker 04

  Wow, that's. Now. It's over. We said we hate macaroni and cheese.

• 43:51Speaker 03

  And cochella. I want, I want like a food. Like I don't want like a l'ange of food. Like it's like beige.

• 43:59Josh Horowitz?

  Look at his face. He hates you now. It's like active disdain.

• 44:02Speaker 04

  I'm over it.

• 44:05Josh Horowitz?

  We're gonna end positive. Your movie is remarkable. It will, it will change, it will affect people. It's like, like I said, it really affected me and I was not alone in that audience until your ride. I can't wait to see it again. Congratulations. Enjoy the press tour and hopefully you guys aren't cancelled. I apologize. I think you'll be okay.

• 44:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, I hope so.

• 44:28Speaker 05

  It's been good though.

• 44:28Josh Horowitz?

  Look, we've had a great one.

• 44:31Speaker 05

  We can end on this, Noel. I'd be all right with that.

• 44:34Josh Horowitz?

  Drop the mic. We did it. Thank you guys.

• 44:36Speaker 04

  Thanks, Josh.

• 44:39Speaker 05

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't supposed to do this by Josh.

• 44:58Speaker 05

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

• 45:42Speaker 05

  It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts and let's solve this thing together.