Samantha Morton

Samantha Morton says acting saved her life and once you know about her childhood you'll agree. Thankfully her talent and tenacious spirit triumphed. Along the way she's earned two Oscar nominations and may be on her way to a third thanks to a remarkable turn in THE ODYSSEY. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Acting saved my life, but without being too heavy, I also am a firm believer in God. And I think that my faith gave me the ability to feel loved when human beings in society were pretty cruel. And if you still feel loved, that you are worthy and that you're, you have a right to be here and that you're a child of the universe, or a child of God, or whatever you want to call it, then you feel lucky. You just feel lucky. You don't feel sorry for yourself. You don't feel bad. You're just like, this rocks. Life is actually pretty cool.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 0:42Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Today on the show, one of the true standout performances in The Odyssey, we are highlighting the great Samantha Morton today. An amazing career. Sweet and Low Down, Minority Report, two Oscar nominations, and maybe another to come for this one. Thanks guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. We've been really diving into The Odyssey a lot. We of course had Matt Damon and Chris Nolan for some brief conversations. And today it is the deep dive with one of the great actors, Samantha Morton. If you know, you know, she's accumulated quite the filmography and we dive into quite a bit of it today. Before we get to that, though, a quick reminder, as always, remember to check out the Patreon, patreon.com/happy sad confused. Early access to every episode, including this one, and the space time continuum.

• 1:27Josh Horowitz?

  You would have seen this already, trust me. You also get access to our live events in New York and Los Angeles, merch, bonus materials, all sorts of fun stuff. Check it out, patreon.com slash happy sad confused. Okay, so a little bit more on Samantha Morton. If you listen to this podcast, you know her work, but I'm just going to say it. She's been one of those like consistently, maybe under the radar performance performers for many decades now, dating back to her breakout, leading role alongside Sean Penn in the Woody Allen movie, Sweet and Low Down. She got an Oscar nomination for that. She then got an Oscar nomination for In America, but you've seen her in Minority Report, in The Walking Dead, in so much on television and film. She's one of those people that is just always reliable. And maybe we

• 2:11Josh Horowitz?

  take for granted a little bit. Well, we don't take her for granted after seeing The Odyssey, because in a, in a film filled with standout sequences, for my money, the Cersei sequence, she plays Cersei, is a true, it's a true moment. It's a true, I don't know, exhibition of horror and acting and all the tools that Christopher Nolan and his actors bring to the fore. It's, it's an amazing sequence that people have been talking about since it started the screen. And I think it is going to get Samantha some hopefully justifiable awards attention as the season continues. It's a long way to go, but she, for my money, delivers one of the best scene stealing performances of the year so far. So without

• 2:53Josh Horowitz?

  any further ado, she is, she's so sweet. She's so honest. She's such a great actor. I'm so thrilled she came on the podcast for the very first time. It is me and Samantha Morton. Enjoy. Samantha Morton, should we do this?

• 3:07Speaker 00

  Hello.

• 3:07Josh Horowitz?

  It's so nice to meet you.

• 3:09Speaker 00

  It's great to meet you.

• 3:10Josh Horowitz?

  Longtime fan, first time caller. I'm so thrilled to have you on Happy Sad Confused for the first time and for a very good cause. Congratulations on The Odyssey, but we're going to cover a lot today. This is your life, Samantha Morton.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  Oh my goodness. Okay. Hello. Right.

• 3:23Josh Horowitz?

  First of all, we were just talking before, you're not a New Yorker anymore, but you have spent some time here. You used to be.

• 3:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was here. I was lucky. I came, I was like on the side of a bus because I was doing like an A and E show when I was 19. I played Jane Eyre. And so, and I'd also done like Emma before, I played Harry. And they, they, I think Kate Beckinsale couldn't do the press in LA for whatever reason. So I got her ticket to go to LA and I loved that. And then, and then I got to come with Jane Eyre and I, I didn't leave. I was naughty. I just, I, I kind of sofa surfed and then I got a job. And then I got another job and then I got another job and then I got a visa and I stayed.

• 4:05Josh Horowitz?

  And not so long thereafter, in the sequence of events, a film I love is In America, which was obviously shot here.

• 4:12Speaker 00

  That was a long time ago. Some of it was shot here. Yeah. And then the rest in, in, we doubled, Dublin doubled for Alphabet City. I think it was freezing. We were like in shorts and t-shirt with everyone spraying. It's like we were really hot. And yeah, it was.

• 4:28Josh Horowitz?

  Well done. Movie magic. Worked on young Josh Horowitz. I was, I was fooled. And you were saying, but we were saying before, we do bond because we both are proof that you don't have to drive to function as an adult.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  No, I never learned how to drive. And I think that's because I've been acting since I was 12. So I left school at 12, appalling education, because back then on film sets in England, you didn't get a tutor. So I just carried on working. And then I was, it sounds really whatever, but I was always on a minibus or had a driver because these TV shows, you, you just get driven to work and then driven home. And because, touch wood, lucky for me, I've always worked. I've never got the time to learn how to drive.

• 5:06Josh Horowitz?

  Well, if both our careers hit a horrible moment, which they won't, but maybe we could take driving lessons together. We can help each other out.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  Crash course. Excuse the word, crash.

• 5:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, let's avoid the crashing.

• 5:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. They call them crash courses. I don't know.

• 5:19Josh Horowitz?

  They do. They do. The reason that brings you here today is a very good reason. You're part of like a true phenomenon. We're in the middle, as we tape this, The Odyssey has just opened just a couple of days ago. It is a global sensation already. The reviews could not be better. And you are getting some much well deserved praise.

• 5:40Speaker 00

  Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.

• 5:42Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, in a career of, you've had some great successes and you've had the ups and the downs like everybody, actor does. Can you contextualize what this means to you at this moment right now?

• 5:55Speaker 00

  Hope and faith that I suppose if you keep at it, that, and you keep producing good work and that the right people see it, then maybe you can carry on working. Cause I've had times when, I haven't worked for a year since making The Odyssey, you know? And I've got really good agents and a manager, but, but at the end of the day, I'm 49 and I've, whilst I'm, I do believe I'm a good actor, there are other good actors out there. Do you know what I mean? So the politics of the industry has changed massively. So what this means to me, first of all, regardless of carrying on working, which I feel confident that, you know, with the ups and the downs, I will keep working till I'm in my eighties

• 6:39Speaker 00

  or whatever, touch wood. But it's more that for me, I got to work with Christopher Nolan in my lifetime, that that, that's it. That's, that's, I'm, I'm happy now. Like, I mean, I was happy before. I've worked with some brilliant people, but you're always at the mercy as an actor of who your employer is and what they, what they expect of you and what they believe in you to do for them. And, and without sounding corny, I genuinely cried when I got the call from my team saying, Christopher Nolan would like to meet you. And I, John Papsadera, I, I know believes in me. And, and I just didn't, I just, even being in a room with him, to talk to him, to listen to him, I'm of, like yourself, I'm

• 7:24Speaker 00

  obsessed with cinema, have been since I was very, very little. It's my savior. It's my life. It's, if I wasn't an actress, I'd, I'd do anything on a film set just to watch the magic and just watch it happen. So, and it's The Odyssey, you know? So being part of something that is bigger than any individual is really important in this day and age. It's because we live in the age of the I, the me, the, the Instagram, the selfie, the, the ego. And The Odyssey is the opposite of that. It's, it's a human, deeply human spiritual experience for me personally, when I saw the film for the first time. So to be part

• 8:06Speaker 00

  of that is incredible. Obviously it's awesome. Everybody's telling me that it's done really well this weekend. And I think for Universal and for Chris and Emma, that's, I'm just so, so unbelievably happy for them.

• 8:21Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's funny because you, you talk about like, I mean, your body of work is amazing. And we'll, we'll talk about, about some of it, but like, no matter what, how successful you are, I mean, it's very illuminating, a very eye opening to hear what you say, which is that like even at the stage of your career, it's, it's out of your control. You're only as, you're dependent on a phone call, on an email, on someone seeing something in you at the right time. And yeah, the meaning of getting, like you had no previous relationship with Christopher Nolan, as far as I know, right?

• 8:50Speaker 00

  Never met before. No. And in fact, years ago, I was, to get my Equity card, I was a magician's assistant. And so worked very hard at that. And so when they were doing the prestige and I knew they were doing that, and I'm obsessed with magic. And I asked my agents, could I get an audition? And I didn't get an audition or anything, obviously at the point, I mean, come on, it's fine. But I was like, oh, but he's doing a film about, and I was obsessed with Tesla.

• 9:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Oh, wow.

• 9:17Speaker 00

  You know, who isn't? And David Blaine and, you know, yeah.

• 9:22Josh Horowitz?

  It took 20 more years, but you got the right part for the right film.

• 9:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:26Josh Horowitz?

  Do you believe in, in kind of like that kind of fate thing when it comes to your, your career that like the right part finds the right actor at the right time?

• 9:36Speaker 00

  I'm not sure. I think that life and art have a really bizarre way of intertwining. And what's for you went past you. But sometimes it's hard to know that in the time, because there've been times when things haven't worked out. And I've been very sad, both creatively and financially, because I have three children and a mortgage and life. And oh, it's a shame about that. But, but ultimately, I think if you, you are earnest and you have dignity and compassion and you're, as I say, you're a good egg. And you keep being a good egg. Hopefully the rules of something make it that you, you do get these moments to cherish

• 10:19Speaker 00

  forever, because they're few and far between. And I think becoming very successful at 16, which is what happened to me in England, where I couldn't walk down the street and the fame was weird. I then retreated. I didn't like it. And I wanted to be in cinema. That was my dream. And then, so I actively sought to only do independent cinema when I first got an American agent, refused all of the big movies that were coming my way, because I, I just wanted to work with filmmakers rather than a machine. And I'm not to say that that isn't an amazing opportunity either, but it just didn't suit my temperament at the time. And I felt that they would be better with somebody that knew how to play

• 10:58Speaker 00

  the game, rather than somebody wondering about direction or shots or, do you know what I mean? So, so then, yeah, I think, I think it worked out for the best.

• 11:20Speaker 03

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• 13:06Josh Horowitz?

  Let's talk a little bit about this specific role and why people are talking about it. I mean, it's in a film filled with standout sequences, the Cersei sequence stands out. It is, to say the least. Do you get the full script? Do you get like, how is it presented to you? Does Chris get on the phone with you, or you just get a script, or what happened?

• 13:24Speaker 00

  No, I was invited to meet Chris, and I went to meet him in Los Angeles, and we spoke about, well, I think I probably spoke too much because I'm a chatterbox. And once I start, I'm like a Pringle. Once you pop me, you can't stop me. I'm like, so I was chattering away about cinema. I mean, I am really, really am a fan is the wrong word, but I am a fan, a huge admirer, and deeply respectful of the work that he's made. And it's really affected me. And so just chatting away. And then I read the script, and then I met Emma. And then I was, I didn't know the book. I'd heard of it, and I think I'd

• 14:08Speaker 00

  seen a Simpsons, you know, they did an episode in The Simpsons.

• 14:13Josh Horowitz?

  Most people know what Cape Fear and many other pop culture totems.

• 14:16Speaker 00

  And I just was very emotional after reading the script. I was kind of galvanized. I was just so, for want of a better word, I was pumped up. I was just full of fury and love and hope and anger. And I was a ball of emotion and kind of communicated with him, I suppose, about my feelings about Cersei and the script. And I think that made okay, made good. And he said, would I play Cersei? So.

• 14:48Josh Horowitz?

  Did you have an immediate, like, take on what you wanted to do with the character?

• 14:51Speaker 00

  No, I don't ever do that. I wouldn't dream of forcing anything upon creativity. And that the spontaneity of.

• 15:04Josh Horowitz?

  Looking other actors in the eye and feeling the atmosphere.

• 15:07Speaker 00

  Listening, listening, feeling, responding, and also being directed, listening to my director, what they need and want, and also just seeing what happens. And I think if you do, if you showed due diligence with the prep, and a lot of that is trust and believing that if you, if you, so like, for me, reading the script or reading Cersei's part, my initial feelings and my, it's like you can see someone, like you recognize them.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  And I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a part of me in there, because I always give a bit of, you know, like Trivial Pursuit Part, you know, the little bits of the cheese or the pie, or have you, I've always just gone, there's no point. I don't know how to act. I didn't go to drama school. I was an extra. And then I got one line in something, and then I got two lines in something. And then, so I've learned on the job by watching other actors, you know, being, I was lucky to work at the Royal Court Theatre when I was younger, learning from great directors, and then learning how to act from my script, which was a Max Stafford Clark thing that Ian Rickson taught me, and then just learning on the job. And the one thing I find absolutely frustrating and terrifying is when I'm working

• 16:25Speaker 00

  with another actor and they do it the same every time, because they've learned it a certain way, and they can't undo it.

• 16:32Josh Horowitz?

  All the work was in the trailer and nothing's happening.

• 16:35Speaker 00

  Or something, or there's a, there's a some kind of rigid formation to what they're sticking to. And there's no fun in that. There's no, there's no danger. And I'm quite attracted to failing or being vulnerable or like, sod it, excuse me, like, let's do it this way. Okay, just tell me, you know, and then.

• 16:59Josh Horowitz?

  Well, the excitement of that high wire act where you're like, this close to failure and this close to success must be such a rush.

• 17:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, giving in. And then, and the feeling of making your director happy, or, you know, everything worked. And so, yeah, I didn't have an idea other than just an instinctive feeling about her that then on set kicked in.

• 17:21Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, this has already become like legend, where early days of talking about how the sequence was made. But Chris has talked about how much like it only happened once before with Heath Ledger, there was this kind of spontaneous applause for you at the end of a certain take. That doesn't happen, as I understand it, much on a set. Does that stick out to you as a very distinct memory? What did you feel?

• 17:46Speaker 00

  Not really at the time. And I think it's because the set was so private, and a lot of the crew couldn't actually be in that room. There wasn't the, with all the guys, there wasn't the space. So I think a lot of that was happening off set. But the other actors responded to something I did that, I was in the zone, though. I got to tell you, I was gone. I'm not schizophrenic, touch wood, at this point. But I was.

• 18:12Josh Horowitz?

  You were full Cersei.

• 18:13Speaker 00

  I was there. And so I just didn't know if we were going to go again. So I didn't break out, because if you needed to go again, I needed to stay in the zone. So I think I just remember just having this warm feeling in my tummy that we got it. And it's more, for me, it wasn't just about, oh, they were happy with my performance. It was like, you know, we're working with IMAX here, we'll sound, and, and the, the special effects that I'm dealing with. So if every element works, we've got it. If everybody's happy, you're just like, yeah.

• 18:45Josh Horowitz?

  You mentioned the effects, and there's so much curiosity about how this was even achieved. What can you say about like, what was on set? How, is it all practical?

• 18:56Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 18:57Josh Horowitz?

  That seems impossible, but I believe you. But that's amazing.

• 19:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I think that you, again, I told you about being a magician's assistant. I also grew up being obsessed with horror. I mean, obsessed. And The Exorcist is possibly my favorite film of all time. And then you're going into 2001, and then probably Interstellar, you know, like that, that world for me. And I grew up, my, my stepdad had an illegal video store. So I was watching, you know, The Witch, AKA Superstition, or The Evil Dead, and, you know, and Night of the Living Dead. So, and I've always been obsessed with creatures. And I watched it far too young, but American Wolf in London. And when Jack

• 19:41Speaker 00

  transforms in that front room in the flat in London, it blew my mind. And that's the movie magic for me. So to be, you know, and I was a dancer when I grew up in a gym now. So all these things, to be able to physically work with the practicals is everything to me. I love it. I'm excited. And Chris gave me lots of pointers, and we had rehearsals. And, and also for Cersei, this idea that she, it isn't sexual, but it's sensual.

• 20:16Speaker 00

  And I wanted it to feel as this magic is happening. If I don't believe it, you're not gonna believe it.

• 20:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:25Speaker 00

  And I don't just believe it, I know I've done it. Does that make sense?

• 20:29Josh Horowitz?

  Absolutely.

• 20:30Speaker 00

  And I think that then the dance, the, the, it's like, almost like I'd, before I got more proper work as an actor, I was studying uh for a small amount of time to be an aromatherapist. So working with, you know, essential oils and, and, and friends and family that would let me give them massages and understanding the meridians in the body and, you know, how things flow and no, and just so really working with these actors and then the practical special effects so that it was like we were one. And making it sensual and enjoying it and yeah, I loved it.

• 21:04Josh Horowitz?

  What was it like for you? Did you see the film just like in the last couple of weeks?

• 21:07Speaker 00

  I've seen it a, a few times now, yeah.

• 21:10Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, it must be, it's such an overwhelming experience.

• 21:13Speaker 00

  I just wanna see it again.

• 21:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:14Speaker 00

  Because I keep seeing new things. Obviously, I, my part was what it was and, and I didn't get to see the other stuff. So I'm just desperate to see it again and uh yeah, the script keeps blowing my mind. And then the other performances and how, you know, questions. And I, I only discovered yesterday, my husband uh was explaining to me about the puppetry with, with the Cyclops. And I, I was like, that was a puppet?

• 21:41Josh Horowitz?

  I know, I know.

• 21:42Speaker 00

  You know, um Joe Wright, the director, um his, his parents ran the Little Angel Puppet Theatre in Islington and I love marionettes and, and so I was, I used to take my daughter, who's twenty six now, I used to take her to the little, to the Angel Puppet Theatre and I just love, it's, it's magic, isn't it?

• 22:01Josh Horowitz?

  It's beautiful. When it's done the way he has done it and few can operate on that level. He, I, when I talked to him recently, he, he talked about like Guillermo del Toro and like

• 22:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:09Josh Horowitz?

  learning from him and, you know, treating these monsters as.

• 22:13Speaker 00

  But this, the Dark Crystal when I grew up was one of my favorite films.

• 22:15Josh Horowitz?

  Such a haunting, mind blowing.

• 22:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, and Jim Henson and I think for me even like The Neverending Story and I'm, I'm that age group and, you know, you've got The Goonies, The Neverending Story and Labyrinth and these, we went and, you know, we think about Tom Cruise in, in, was it Legend? You know, so we, we.

• 22:33Josh Horowitz?

  Tim Curry makeup with this.

• 22:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I, I wanted that role, like I would wanna be Tim Curry, not the princess. I was always like, they're the more exciting.

• 22:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:40Speaker 00

  But yeah, I just, and I love Chris Cunningham, I've worked with Chris Cunningham and I don't know that, just, I'm just talking about that, that magic bit there is, I was like the cat that got the cream.

• 22:52Josh Horowitz?

  So was, was film, I mean, look, we can talk, we can talk about your upbringing and you've been very open about it. Like film must have been, I would imagine, film's an escape for all of us.

• 23:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:01Josh Horowitz?

  Was film especially an escape for somebody that had a chaotic?

• 23:04Speaker 00

  From, I used to run away from children's homes with my big sister Penny and we would sneak in the back door of the ABC Cinema in Nottingham and hide there all day. Um, because the outside world was pretty gruesome. And so that was our safe space and I, my earliest memory is watching Two Thousand and One and I must have been about five and it must have been like re, a rerun of it. Um, and then I watched it over and over, we watched it all day, every day because it would just be played again and again, again. And then I would hide behind the big velvet curtains and roll down like roly poly down the little bank at the front. So my entire childhood was sneaking into the cinema because I couldn't afford it, either as a child to escape what was going on in the real world.

• 23:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  Or just, you know, wanting to get to the cinema.

• 23:53Josh Horowitz?

  A hundred percent, a little bit of both, I would imagine, right? Did um, did your path ever cross with Kubrick? I mean, he was still making Eyes Wide Shut.

• 24:01Speaker 00

  No, I'd, I'd never met him or, I mean, obviously he's, I mean, as a photographer as well as a filmmaker and the, I don't know, the, the dedication to the integrity of his craft, you know, just, it's, it's all there, you know?

• 24:22Josh Horowitz?

  Is, you kind of alluded to this earlier. I mean, is, is it fair to say that you view this path, this career acting as something that kinda saved you? That's something that you needed, especially?

• 24:34Speaker 00

  Well, there was no other option for me. I grew up in, I was taken into care as a baby, um, because my parents weren't able to look after me. And I have nine siblings, I'm one of nine. So it was very complex childhood of my dad when he was in and out of prison, I'd be on a, a care order, which meant sometimes I'd be living with my dad and then sometimes he'd go back to prison and then I'd be back in a foster home. And then at the age of about nine, there was no more foster homes and I was made a ward of court, which is when the government then owned you. And then it was just children's homes because you're not cute anymore and, you know, you can't get a foster family at that point for, for a long period. So then at about fourteen, I started running away and living on the streets. And then at sixteen, I was in a homeless hostel.

• 25:19Speaker 00

  And that was when I wrote my first play and got it put on and co-directed it with somebody. And then the guy that, right, it's called Ian Smith, that ran the, the drama workshop that I was sometimes allowed to go to. Sometimes I was a bit naughty. Uh, I got in trouble with the police and, you know, I was a runaway. I would be stealing food and then I'd get arrested for that and I'd be like, I'm, or I was always vegetarian, which was tricky. So trying to be a homeless vegetarian kid was not, so I'd, I'd steal like vitamin tablets, you know, like, but just take one because I didn't wanna be greedy and take the whole lot, but you're on camera. Anyway, I digress, but Ian gave me some train fare to go to London because he knew about an audition for a TV show.

• 26:03Speaker 00

  And it was a speaking role and it was to play Runaway.

• 26:07Josh Horowitz?

  Was this Band of Gold or is this?

• 26:08Speaker 00

  No, this was a thing called Peak Practice, which was huge in England. It was a big, we only had like four channels, you know, like this was a big deal. They had like over fifteen million viewers every week. And I just went and I learnt the lines on the train. He gave me the train fare and it was to play Runaway and I was like, I can do this.

• 26:23Josh Horowitz?

  This is in my wheelhouse, I got this.

• 26:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, and then that week I got an agent, uh, I got that role, I got an agent and then I did Band of Gold and, and the rest is history. So, so to answer your question in a very long-winded fashion, acting, it was, saved my life, but without being too heavy, I also am a firm believer in God and I think that my faith gave me the ability to feel loved when human beings in society were pretty cruel. And if you still feel loved, that you are worthy and that you're, you have a right to be here and that you're a child of the universe or a child of God or whatever you wanna call it, then you feel lucky. You just feel lucky.

• 27:07Speaker 00

  You don't feel sorry for yourself, you don't feel bad, you're just like, this rocks, life is actually pretty cool.

• 27:13Josh Horowitz?

  And it, you had this attitude, correct me if I'm wrong, right from the start, being on set of speaking your mind and like, like you, like you, you kind of like knew your place and, and wasn't shy about expressing yourself. And that's unusual for young performers, young women especially.

• 27:29Speaker 00

  And that got me into a lot of trouble, but I think it's because I didn't have the etiquette and I've learnt that. So if you haven't been to school and then you're entering an adult workplace at the age of, well, I did kind of soldier, soldier when I was twelve and extra work and things like that. And then a play at the Royal Court Theatre, I was sixteen and then as we just talked about, there was, and I didn't have parents, you know, twelve sets of foster parents, different religions, different cultures. Children's homes that are ran, they're like carnage, you know, young, uh, secure units where there's bars at the window. You, you have to fight pretty quickly to say no to things. No, do not touch me. No, I'm not gonna do that. No, I'm not gonna eat meat. No, I'm, I am gonna go to church, you cannot stop me from going to church.

• 28:14Speaker 00

  There's a whole gamut of things that people force upon you. And then when I entered the workplace, because my bro, my brother is in the military, my stepdad, who I miss and love very much, uh, was in the military, whilst I spoke my mind, I'm an incredibly respectful, old fashioned girl at heart. So I would never be rude to anybody.

• 28:35Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 28:35Speaker 00

  I have manners, but if somebody's asking me to take my bra off because they want to see my nipples and I'm sixteen, I'm going to say, no, I don't wanna do that, please. And there was one job in particular where it was on a telly job, the, the, the scene had been written that I was doing a sex scene. And I was seventeen at this point, not sixteen, sorry, and I was, it just said Tracy, Anna, Punter, whatever is having sex. And I, and then these were times where you, you could find the scene, you know, you go on set and you'd have a mark and it was lit already and I was like this, and you don't know like what shot, what size of the frame, what they seeing and this one particular director wanted to see my private, my, my chest.

• 29:19Speaker 00

  And I, I went back to my caravan to go to the bathroom and I shared it with three other women because these are the England, you know? And um, one of the older actresses who, Jolene James, who's an absolutely amazing woman, said, Sam, come here. And I, she got some corn plasters that you put on your toes and she, she said, let's put them here. So she put them on my nipples so that when I went to set and I took my shirt off, that I didn't have to do that. But that's where I was considered difficult, not.

• 29:50Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:51Speaker 00

  Which nowadays you have intimacy coaches, you might even.

• 29:54Josh Horowitz?

  There are guardrails for all these things.

• 29:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, or you might have somebody saying, you don't, we can communicate, the camera doesn't need to see that. So I actually didn't mind nudity when I was younger, so long as it served a purpose for the character or the director was, you know, like with, Under the Skin with um Karen Adler or Morton Calla with Lynne Ramsey, that these filmmakers are, the body, the human body is beautiful. We look at art, we look at paintings, photography, but when it's done because somebody's lazy and salacious and it's just, it, the nineties were, this was nineteen ninety four, ninety five kind of times, it was funny, it was different.

• 30:30Josh Horowitz?

  You mentioned Under the Skin, that leads, correcting if I'm wrong, pretty much directly to Sweet and Lowdown, which here in the States especially.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  And Jesus' Son, yeah.

• 30:38Josh Horowitz?

  Jesus' Son, great film, Billy Crudup, as I recall, right?

• 30:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, and Jack Black and Holly Hunter.

• 30:43Josh Horowitz?

  Forget that Jack Black, oh my gosh.

• 30:46Speaker 00

  Michael Shannon.

• 30:47Josh Horowitz?

  Michael Shannon, you've heard of him a couple of times, Michael Shannon.

• 30:49Speaker 00

  I love Michael very much, yeah.

• 30:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, one of the greats. Um, but is there a learning curve? I mean, like Woody's sets are very unique, we, we all know this by now, but like you're working with Woody Allen, with Sean Penn, like what did Sean Penn make of having this relative unknown to him be his, essentially a screen partner?

• 31:07Speaker 00

  I don't know, I think that he's, again, I say he's a good egg and he.

• 31:14Speaker 00

  I think it's just trusting your director, isn't it? I wasn't a star. I wasn't on the cover of, I was never put on the cover of magazines. And I, I don't know, like, I remember looking at the Vanity Fairs and there was always somebody, always somebody. I was like, oh, they didn't ask again, they didn't ask again, they didn't ask again, even though I was doing these huge roles with, whether it was Sean Penn, or Johnny Depp, or Phil Seymour Hoffman, or, you know, Tim Robbins. Like, I was in these good movies and playing these great roles, but those calls never came calling, if that makes sense. So, I just, going back, because I wasn't a star or anything like that, I think that maybe Sean trusted Woody. And if Woody wants me in the role, then I must be all right.

• 31:56Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 31:56Speaker 00

  Or maybe they saw Under the Skin, or some of my other films at that point, because I'd made, I think, a few at that point, English ones, but.

• 32:04Josh Horowitz?

  So that leads.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  I mean, my first leading man was Richard Harris. I did a movie called This is the Sea with Gabriel Byrne and Richard Harris, that, you know, it was an Irish film, and it was, you know, so, you know, I was always surrounded by these incredibly strong, formidable talents.

• 32:22Josh Horowitz?

  Including behind the camera, you mentioned Lynn Ramsey, Morgan Keller. And then, pretty much around that time, you also worked with Spielberg. You worked with Phil on Minority Report, which is a film that I positively adore.

• 32:32Speaker 00

  It's a great film, isn't it? And I saw it, I didn't see it properly at the time. I don't like watching myself. I saw it recently. It is awesome. It's phenomenal.

• 32:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's like kind of his film noir. I'm actually doing a Q and A with Spielberg tomorrow.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  Oh, you, would you say hello?

• 32:45Josh Horowitz?

  Of course we'll say hello.

• 32:46Speaker 00

  Hopefully he'll remember me. It's a long, it's a long time ago. He works with a lot of actors, and I does just a little role, so.

• 32:52Josh Horowitz?

  You were amazing. Agatha, the precog. I mean, it's, I mean, I think you have maybe the best, I'm not even gonna call it a line reading, it's a word reading. You screaming to Tom Cruise, run?

• 33:04Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 33:05Josh Horowitz?

  Really stands out. Do you remember anything, was that like a specific stage direction in how you delivered that line?

• 33:10Speaker 00

  Well, it just was in capitals in the script. It's like.

• 33:14Josh Horowitz?

  You're nothing if not obedient to the script. I mean, okay.

• 33:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, it said, it was, it said run in capitals with a few N's and, and an exclamation mark. I was like, we gotta do this.

• 33:24Josh Horowitz?

  I can do that.

• 33:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think it just happened.

• 33:27Josh Horowitz?

  You were responsible. I mean, he, Tom had run for that in his career, but I think that emphatic run made him the great runner he is in subsequent movies. It's all due to you.

• 33:37Speaker 00

  Oh, well, thank you very much.

• 33:40Josh Horowitz?

  More Happy Say Confused coming up.

• 33:47Speaker 05

  I'm Anne Foster, and I have never watched the show Spartacus: Blood and Sand.

• 33:51Speaker 06

  And I'm Gina Berry, and I've watched this show numerous times.

• 33:55Speaker 05

  On our new podcast, Nefertv, we discuss TV shows and movies set in ancient history. This season, we are discussing Spartacus: Blood and Sand.

• 34:04Speaker 06

  Follow Nefertv, that's N-E-F-E-R TV, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 34:12Speaker 03

  Oh, please, not that music. That music gives me nightmares from my childhood.

• 34:15Speaker 07

  Could we get something a little bit lighter, some lighter music here?

• 34:19Speaker 03

  Are you a fan of true crime TV shows?

• 34:22Speaker 07

  And what about Unsolved Mysteries, the show that jumpstarted all of our love of true crime?

• 34:27Speaker 03

  I'm Ellen Marsh.

• 34:28Speaker 07

  And I'm Joey Taranto.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  And we host I Think Not, a true crime comedy podcast, covering some of the wildest stories from your favorite true crime campy TV shows, all the way to Unsolved Mysteries.

• 34:40Speaker 07

  Baby, you will laugh, you will cry, you'll think about true crime in a whole new way, and you'll also ask yourself, who gave these people mics?

• 34:47Speaker 03

  New episodes of I Think Not are released every Wednesday, with bonus episodes out every Thursday on Patreon.

• 34:53Speaker 07

  And every Monday, you can listen to our True Crime Rundown, where we go over the top true crime headlines of the week.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  So come and join us, wherever you listen to your podcasts.

• 35:09Josh Horowitz?

  So you kind of allude to this, like, it seems like, yes, you're consistently working with like, these great actors, filmmakers. But was it that you didn't, you feel like, did you not fit into like, a certain box for casting directors, for filmmakers in the subsequent years? I mean, again, you're working consistently, but.

• 35:25Speaker 00

  I think I stopped to have children.

• 35:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, well, that's part of it.

• 35:29Speaker 00

  I have a 26-year-old who I had when I was 21. And then I wanted to have more children. And then I gained weight, I have to say. And I think that, you know, at that point, that isn't cool, to be a bigger lady, but I'm still gonna breastfeed my children. I refuse to diet. I eat healthily. I go to the gym. And I think that you're almost, for me, it was, I was lucky, I got to have, to be a mom, you know, do my thing and still work. But it was tough at times to not get a role that you're like, oh, okay, okay.

• 36:07Josh Horowitz?

  How overt were people talking to you about, like, reasons that you weren't getting roles? Were people saying to you, like?

• 36:12Speaker 00

  Well, no, there was a certain.

• 36:13Josh Horowitz?

  It was.

• 36:13Speaker 00

  No, no, no, I think that was a bit later. But I think that there was certainly a time where certain people in the industry made it very clear that I was not welcome, because of how outspoken I'd been about certain people. And I.

• 36:30Josh Horowitz?

  Harvey Weinstein stuff.

• 36:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I think that, from a very, very, very early days of certain films that I was removed from, for all sorts of reasons, it was just very clear that that, that meant something. Because at that time, you've got to remember, he, they had their girls, and I very quickly, because I said no to a film, I was doing Jesus Son, I was in Philadelphia shooting, and I got a phone call, because it was an offer for a huge Miramax film. And I read the script, and I hated the script. And I said to my then agent, who is now my manager, I don't like it. I've kind of done this kind of role before. She was like, it's

• 37:14Speaker 00

  Miramax. And I said, I, I'm so sorry, I can't identify with the character, I don't like it. And they said, I'm not gonna say any names, because I can't, but the actress that will do it if I don't want to do it. And I said, I don't, good for her, I don't, I don't want to do it. Anyway, then I got a phone call saying, you don't say no to this person, as in to, to Harvey, and, and this will affect you forever. And it kind of did for a long time. But I also think, with all respect, I don't think it was that singular. I don't think it was that personal to me. I think it's just that the industry was very

• 37:54Speaker 00

  small at that time. And I think that he, he was brilliant, his company were brilliant, and experts at what they do. So I don't think, I'm not gonna flatter myself by thinking that one particular person has got it in for me, but I think that the, the general sense of things at the time for women, whether you're Britney Spears, and you're a performer, and you're being hounded by the press and judged constantly for how you behave, or, or just an actress just saying no to a role, women in general were not allowed a voice.

• 38:31Josh Horowitz?

  Right. And you were always.

• 38:33Speaker 00

  And I didn't play those games.

• 38:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you, you had taste, and you exercised that taste. God forbid, someone should be allowed to say no to something that doesn't work for them.

• 38:42Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then it got really tricky, where directors would be wanting to cast me in things, and I would screen test, and the directors would want me, but, that, that particular producer wouldn't want me.

• 38:54Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 38:55Speaker 00

  It was just silly. It was really silly.

• 38:57Josh Horowitz?

  And what about, like, I mean, you've done, certainly, like, Odyssey is as big as you get, and you've done things like Fantastic Beasts, and John Carter.

• 39:04Speaker 00

  I love John Carter. Can I just say?

• 39:07Josh Horowitz?

  It's great, I mean.

• 39:07Speaker 00

  Andrew Stanton, that.

• 39:09Josh Horowitz?

  Brilliant genius.

• 39:10Speaker 00

  But, you know, going in for that audition, I was so excited. It was like, oh, you're a princess. I was like, oh, I've never played a princess before. I was really excited. Yeah, it was my time, honestly. I was like, oh, Vanity Fair cover, you know, like, all excited. Then I went to.

• 39:22Josh Horowitz?

  Then they show you the art, then they're like, wait.

• 39:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I was so, Princess of Mars. I was like, okay, Andrew.

• 39:29Josh Horowitz?

  Is this makeup? Oh, okay.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, so excited. But he was incredible. I had, I mean, talk about a genius, like, I, I had the best time. And then, I also think that that film came out at the wrong time.

• 39:41Josh Horowitz?

  Totally.

• 39:42Speaker 00

  Like, you know, like, it was ahead of its time.

• 39:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:44Speaker 00

  If you can even say that, because this was the source material.

• 39:47Josh Horowitz?

  People didn't realize, like, this is not a copycat movie. This is the movie that led to Star Wars and all the things.

• 39:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, I loved that. So I had to interject there, because it was a special time for me, and Andrew is just the best.

• 39:59Josh Horowitz?

  Is it true, you said in one interview, like, again, like, I don't know if this was just more of a philosophical things, or just in jive, that you, you turned down an X-Men role at some point? Do you remember what that was?

• 40:09Speaker 00

  I think it was really, really early on. And I, I have to say, what, it's more than X-Men, it was just, there was a time in my career when I was about, you know, early twenties, living in Manhattan, and the scripts would arrive from CAA, and, I don't know, there was just, how can I put it? I would question some of those movies today, should they have been made then, and I questioned it then.

• 40:33Josh Horowitz?

  You were, you were ahead of your time.

• 40:35Speaker 00

  Well, just like, I, but the X-Men thing, I didn't get the script. So it wasn't just a turning down X-Men, because I'm not turning, I don't know what X-Men is. I wasn't into comic books growing up, you know? In that way. So it was more that I read this script.

• 40:51Josh Horowitz?

  Without seeing the actual material.

• 40:52Speaker 00

  I didn't understand it. So I, I didn't want to go there in that world. And this was, must have been like, 2002, or something, 2001.

• 40:59Josh Horowitz?

  This is the first film, X-Men.

• 41:00Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I think that, but that, that was the case with quite a few films at that point, that were much older male stars, much younger partners, quite a few of them. And I didn't believe it. And I think there was a movie once out there where the wonderful Colin Farrell's mom was Angelina Jolie in something, and you're like, really?

• 41:29Josh Horowitz?

  Underlining the point of how insane it is.

• 41:31Speaker 00

  I don't know what it was, it's just a cracker's time, but I'm just glad I'm still here. I'm glad I'm still working. I do good TV that I'm really proud of, like The Walking Dead and, you know.

• 41:40Josh Horowitz?

  Is Walking Dead meaningful for you? I've heard you say you love that role.

• 41:42Speaker 00

  Oh my god, are you jo- like, when I got offered Alpha, I, I was kind of obsessed with horrors, I've told you. So I had a rule in my house that I didn't have television, only cinema and only film. So we have a film library and I lived at that point in the middle of nowhere, in a barn, literally in the middle of nowhere. And so I had no way of seeing the show, but it was about zombies. And my agent was like, we're not sure how you're gonna feel, but this offer's coming and.

• 42:10Josh Horowitz?

  Do you even know me? Yes.

• 42:11Speaker 00

  And exactly, they didn't know that I had this deep rooted love of kind of seventies, eighties horror.

• 42:19Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 42:19Speaker 00

  Um, so I spoke with Angela and, you know, it was, it was to be. And I relished that role and those people and that time. And I was really sad when it was like, okay, you've got to go now, this is done. So three years in Atlanta and I, I, I was so sad. I, it's a role of a lifetime, you know?

• 42:42Josh Horowitz?

  We gotta get Chris to make a full on horror movie. I mean, he demonstrates that he has the chops. It's, I can.

• 42:47Speaker 00

  But it's, but this is the thing, when we look at films like Don't Look Now or The Exorcist, when I look at those performances of the actors in those films, they, they're in that genre of like,

• 42:59Speaker 00

  that is horror, but it, it's more kind of psychological, mind melting stuff, isn't it? That's, I think that's where my head's at. I don't like just horror where it's just slasher or, or kind of bringing it down to some weird two dimensional thing, you know?

• 43:17Josh Horowitz?

  No, I mean, if, if The Exorcist were released today, Ellen Burstyn is getting a campaign, could win.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, with the Academy, well, I mean, it's extraordinary, but it, but it's because it's the primal fears

• 43:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:28Speaker 00

  of light and dark.

• 43:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  And, you know, I loved The Omen, the first Omen, and Billy Whitehall was, was one of my favorite actors of all time. You know, and her performance in that, and obviously she was Samuel Beckett's muse. But these are the things that I grew up going, I want to be that, I want to be that. I didn't grow up wanting to be Elizabeth Taylor, not that she was extraordinary, especially in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf and everything else. But I grew up wanting to be Billy Whitehall or the devil in Legend.

• 43:56Josh Horowitz?

  So another curiosity on the resume, is you were, you performed for Spike Jonze and Joaquin in Her.

• 44:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:04Josh Horowitz?

  You were not actually in Her.

• 44:06Speaker 00

  No, no.

• 44:07Josh Horowitz?

  In the, in the end.

• 44:08Speaker 00

  No.

• 44:08Josh Horowitz?

  Can you talk to me a little bit about performing that role and what happened?

• 44:14Speaker 00

  Well, I have to say that it's every director's prerogative in regards to the final cut of the film. And for any job, you're never guaranteed to be in it in the end, because you never really know. Unless you are the lead in the movie and you're pivotal, you, you never really know. And I remember doing the Woody Allen film and lots of other actors who'd worked with Woody Allen telling me, don't get too excited, Sam, you might not be in the finished film.

• 44:40Josh Horowitz?

  Until the premiere, yeah.

• 44:41Speaker 00

  No, exactly, because there's so many reshoots and you're like, why are we reshooting this?

• 44:44Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  So, but with that, I was, I was surprised and a little sad would be an understatement. But again, I think that the, the time I had on set with Joaquin and the working with Spike on the script and finding Samantha and all the work that we did was really special. And we, we did some mad stuff though. We were like, I would be in like this, they designed and built a booth for me to record all my sound, so they could literally, you know, like Doctor Who is in a, a thing, a phone box. I was in a phone box, like a, a black kind of padded phone box, or I'd be in the trunk of a car or.

• 45:26Speaker 00

  But I have to say, I think my version of Samantha was very, you know, she's English. It was just very, very different.

• 45:32Josh Horowitz?

  Got it.

• 45:32Speaker 00

  A little bit, if you think of how, like, there was a, there was a way, and I think Scarlett Johansson has a beautiful voice. She's incredibly evocative. It's, you know, I, I, I got it, but I was sad.

• 45:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, and it should be said, all credit to you. I mean, Joaquin's performance, like you were just saying, you were there.

• 45:49Speaker 00

  I was on set, yeah, sometimes next to the camera.

• 45:52Josh Horowitz?

  Because of you, you're there.

• 45:53Speaker 00

  It was kind of you to say, thank you. I think we did work together opposite each other and that was, I loved it. But I was sad. It's not, it does hurt when you're fired from something or, you know, before, I, I don't know. I just wanted, what I'd have wished for was another chance in a booth to do an American accent.

• 46:14Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 46:15Speaker 00

  But I think, you know, Scarlett Johansson, I mean, come on.

• 46:18Josh Horowitz?

  We can do it right now if you want to. We'll, we'll insert it after the fact. It's not too late.

• 46:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:23Josh Horowitz?

  No, thank you for your honesty about that. I appreciate it.

• 46:25Speaker 00

  No, thank you.

• 46:26Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, in recent years, you say you haven't worked since The Odyssey, but you have been working with some great filmmakers. You've worked with Aronofsky.

• 46:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:32Josh Horowitz?

  In The Whale, which is a remarkable piece of work.

• 46:34Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 46:35Josh Horowitz?

  You worked in, in, in Emane, who, Sean.

• 46:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, Sean was on the podcast. I talked to him about that one. That was remarkable as well. Um, so going forward, like, where is your head at in terms of, I mean, this is gonna, not that you need like new opportunities, because everybody knows Samantha Morton is like the best of the best.

• 46:52Speaker 00

  That's very kind of you, but I'm 49 and I think that there's always new audiences, you know? Like people, I had to do a showreel about you, a new showreel, because there's lots of young casting directors and young filmmakers who've not heard of Samantha Morton or maybe haven't seen things over the years.

• 47:09Josh Horowitz?

  Slide them some, some links, some DVDs. They just couldn't connect me.

• 47:12Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 47:13Josh Horowitz?

  Have you had to audition in the last like 10, 20 years? Like, do you ever have to do that anymore?

• 47:17Speaker 00

  I don't really audition, although I did read online with a director for something that sadly I couldn't do in the end because I was doing a TV thing. Um, but I don't mind auditioning. I, I haven't and, but I used to like the, the days when I was in a room with a casting director.

• 47:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right, the self tape now is just come on.

• 47:38Speaker 00

  I find that extraordinary.

• 47:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:40Speaker 00

  Um, and I think it does help in the UK with location, because London, everything's London centric. So if you're a northern actor, you, you know, you get, put yourself on tape and you don't have to pay the train fare to get to London.

• 47:51Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 47:51Speaker 00

  But there's something missing in that magic of meeting a director and them thinking that you might be right or, you know, so.

• 47:58Josh Horowitz?

  Are you hearing from old friends, new friends in the last week or so?

• 48:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I got a, a really lovely, I got lovely messages from Melanie Mayron, who directed me in Serpent Queen, just like so proud. And, um, Erwin Stoff, who was my boss on Serpent Queen and, you know, uh, I actually heard from Andrew Stanton. Like, I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm really, I'm just so chuffed because I'm in something that people are seeing. And obviously they're saying, because it's Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey and, um, yeah.

• 48:30Josh Horowitz?

  It's well deserved. We're, we're gonna, we're gonna wrap up with this. I end every Happy Sec Confused conversation with some profoundly random questions for you, Samantha. Are you ready for this?

• 48:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:39Josh Horowitz?

  Are you a dog or a cat person?

• 48:40Speaker 00

  Both.

• 48:41Josh Horowitz?

  Both.

• 48:41Speaker 00

  I have four dogs and four cats.

• 48:44Josh Horowitz?

  They all get along? Everything's prosa- setic at home?

• 48:46Speaker 00

  It's, it's beautiful, yeah.

• 48:48Josh Horowitz?

  Got a farm going? Any other animals that I should know?

• 48:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, we have a bearded dragon called Calcifer from, you know, uh, from, um, Howl's Moving Castle.

• 48:59Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 49:00Speaker 00

  So we call him Crispy. Um, we did have rabbits, but they were just wrecking the carpets. So after a while, the kids lose interest and you're like, okay, they need to go to a home where they're gonna be really, really loved.

• 49:11Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 49:12Speaker 00

  Because they were loved for a bit and.

• 49:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, now it's on you. Yeah. What do you collect, if anything?

• 49:19Speaker 00

  That's a really lovely question. Um, photographs.

• 49:25Josh Horowitz?

  Lovely. Do you, did you ever play a video game like in your youth?

• 49:29Speaker 00

  Chuck E. Egg, obsessed with Chuck E. Egg.

• 49:31Josh Horowitz?

  Someone else mentioned Chuck E. Egg. Oh, Matthew Good mentioned that one.

• 49:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, Chuck E. Egg. And then, uh, I was like first Tomb Raider. Obsessed, could not, I mean, but it was a problem, because you're just, you know, like you don't go to bed.

• 49:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's a time.

• 49:45Speaker 00

  And I had to tell myself, age like 19, no more video games, because I got bit, yeah.

• 49:52Josh Horowitz?

  Good to know. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 49:55Speaker 00

  What? Oh, my kids, my kids, yeah.

• 49:58Josh Horowitz?

  Who's the last actor you were mistaken for?

• 50:01Speaker 00

  Oh, it's not mistaken. I went to New Zealand to do a movie and the director said, we're so excited to have you, Emily. I've loved you since you were in Breaking the Waves. Vincent Ward, I was like, are you joking? I said to the producer, I'm Samantha, does he know that I'm Samantha Morton? He said, don't tell him. He thinks you're Emily Watson.

• 50:21Josh Horowitz?

  Did you go through the whole job and never correct me?

• 50:23Speaker 00

  No, it was sad. It was a sad job, but, but, but I was like, what the? So I always get mistaken for the amazing, the one and only, extraordinary Emily Watson or Stella McCartney, which I love and I'm wearing Stella McCartney, so.

• 50:40Josh Horowitz?

  You're helping, you're, you're leaning in.

• 50:41Speaker 00

  But it was Emily Watson, yeah.

• 50:43Josh Horowitz?

  I was amused, I was watching some, like on my Instagram feed, I saw you like autographing some stuff here in New York and you were saying like, I don't know what you're gonna get for this, but.

• 50:52Speaker 00

  It's true, like, no, it's true. There's a Funko Pop and I don't know if it was the Alpha Funko Pop, yeah. And, um, sliding, you know, but I don't go to conventions and I'm not on any of the cameo thing. And I'm very rarely on Instagram. I do go on and I do respond and stuff, but I find it overwhelming. So I don't know how much they're gonna get for it, but it, but there's not many.

• 51:14Josh Horowitz?

  It's going up though, the season, it's going up.

• 51:16Speaker 00

  It's gonna go up. Oh, that's good.

• 51:18Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst note a director's ever given you?

• 51:21Speaker 00

  Take off your bra, I want to see your nipples.

• 51:23Josh Horowitz?

  It's hard to beat that in terms of crappy direction.

• 51:26Speaker 00

  But he had a, one of those megaphones as well and he was on an umpire's, you know, like with, with tennis?

• 51:32Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 51:33Speaker 00

  He was on one of those chairs as well.

• 51:36Speaker 00

  And I, I was like, I mean, that's happened to me before, but I was like, what? Like, you know, when you can't quite believe that it's happening?

• 51:43Josh Horowitz?

  What's happening, yeah.

• 51:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:44Josh Horowitz?

  And this is when you're like, you said you were like 16 or something?

• 51:46Speaker 00

  No, that was, that was a different one. This was, I was in my twenties for that one. Yeah.

• 51:50Josh Horowitz?

  Not cool. Doesn't matter if you're in their 50s or 70s or 90s.

• 51:53Speaker 00

  No.

• 51:55Josh Horowitz?

  Ah, okay. And finally, in the spirit of Happy Sec Confused, an actor who makes you happy.

• 52:00Speaker 00

  Matt Damon. Everything he does.

• 52:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. He's the real deal.

• 52:04Speaker 00

  He, um, I'm speechless because he makes it look like he's not doing anything. Whether he makes it look like that or just he has this, he possesses this ability to transform. He's like the air. He's like, he's like just pure energy, but in whatever distilled form.

• 52:27Speaker 00

  And I remember seeing Good Will Hunting and crying, just sobbing and then watching it again and then watching it again. And then I, you know, like, I can't, I can't think of any, other than actresses, you know, be Billy Whitehall.

• 52:45Speaker 00

  Matt Damon.

• 52:46Josh Horowitz?

  Good answer. Movie that makes you sad?

• 52:51Speaker 00

  Movie that makes me sad.

• 52:55Speaker 00

  Oh my goodness, Interstellar, but also happy. Like, I just, I could cry thinking about that film. So it does make me sad.

• 53:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:04Speaker 00

  But it makes me happy too.

• 53:06Josh Horowitz?

  That's, that's the best film should, run through all the emotions. And finally, most importantly, what's a food that makes you confused?

• 53:11Speaker 00

  A food?

• 53:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:14Speaker 00

  The puffer fish.

• 53:16Josh Horowitz?

  The puffer fish?

• 53:17Speaker 00

  People eat the puffer fish, don't they? Like a sushi vibe. I'm like,

• 53:20Josh Horowitz?

  Like a bluefish kind of a thing. Yeah.

• 53:21Speaker 00

  It's like, what? Like, why? Because you're risking it for a biscuit? That's like Russian roulette vibes. Like, no way. I'm not eating no puffer fish.

• 53:28Josh Horowitz?

  Doesn't matter how good it tastes.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  Or when people have like beef tartare.

• 53:32Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 53:33Speaker 00

  Like, be careful dudes. Like, it's, that's raw meat.

• 53:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:37Speaker 00

  Like, just be careful.

• 53:38Josh Horowitz?

  Worth it? I don't think so.

• 53:39Speaker 00

  I'm not sure it's worth taking a, risking it for a biscuit, you know?

• 53:43Josh Horowitz?

  There's the PSA from some app I'm working today. We've learned a lot today. Thank you so much, honestly, for the time today. As you can tell, I'm a huge admirer of your work and, um, this performance is remarkable. I mean, it's no surprise what you've done throughout your career, but I'm so happy you're getting your, um, your laurels for it. It is very well deserved.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  Well, thank you so much for having me. I just love talking about it. Thank you.

• 54:05Josh Horowitz?

  I appreciate you.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  Oh, no, thank you.

• 54:09Speaker 04

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't sure to do this by Josh.

• 54:27Speaker 06

  Hey, it's Hilary Frank, host of The Longest Shortest Time, a women's health podcast for everyone. And exciting news, I've got a new original audiobook. It's called Wedlocked, and it's a thriller about the pressure on women to smile through pain. There's marital strife, gaslighting, gynecology, and creepy music, which is running under me right now. If you like thrillers with a social message, like Get Out, Promising Young Woman, then Wedlocked is for you. Get it now, wherever you buy audiobooks.