Gary Oldman, Vol. IV

Gary Oldman is back for the fourth time! One of the greatest living actors, Gary and Josh dive even deeper into his career, from the latest season of SLOW HORSES, to getting caught up in those Jack Lowden James Bond rumors, to even more heartwarming and funny HARRY POTTER memories. Plus, THE FIFTH ELEMENT, his FRIENDS appearance, and so much more! Footage provided by Toronto International Film Festival SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENT! 10/13 -- Joe Manganiello in NY -- Tickets here: https://www.92ny.org/event/joe-manganiello-with-josh-horowitz-bloodlines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I remember I got in a lot of trouble because I said that there was going to be a third Batman and they hadn't announced it. Oh, boy. And I got reprimanded for that. I got into a lot of shit for that. So even if I knew who, even if I knew it was who the James Bond, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I've learned my lesson. I'm not going to open my mouth.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 0:33Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show is truly one of our favorites, one of the great actors of all time. It is the one and only Gary Oldman coming at you from the Toronto International Film Festival. Hey, guys, thanks as always for checking out Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to subscribe on YouTube, on Spotify, on whatever podcast platform you are using. I appreciate you guys. I'm so excited to present this episode. It is always such a profound, profound honor to have Gary Oldman on the podcast, his fourth time on Happy, Sad, Confused, his third live event. We've done it in New York, we've done it in LA, and we brought our little crazy conversation

• 1:18Josh Horowitz?

  to Toronto this time. So honored to do this one. This is our first Happy, Sad, Confused live taping, technically speaking, outside of the United States. I've been coming to the Toronto International Film Festival for many, many years. As you can see, I'm in a sad, banal hotel room, but it's all for a good cause because I'm seeing good movies, I'm seeing great people. It's been a whirlwind coming off of Telluride right into this, but I wouldn't have it any other way. And certainly, having the likes of Gary on the podcast is why I do this show, truly. If you've seen his past conversations with me, you know he is a consummate storyteller,

• 1:59Josh Horowitz?

  a sweet and gentle and kind of slightly chaotic in the best way soul. And it is, it is just crazy to me that he is in my life to some degree and that he appreciates what I do. As he says in this podcast, he's very sweet enough to request me to do this kind of special tribute to him at Toronto. He was honored as a visionary as part of their series here. And this obviously comes on the occasion of two really cool things for Gary. He has been nominated for his third consecutive Emmy for playing Jackson Lamb, of course, in Slow Horses. And the new season of Slow Horses, season six, is about to drop on Apple TV on September

• 2:44Josh Horowitz?

  16th. I've seen it all. It's a great season, one of the best. And there's more to come on Slow Horses. As you might know, they crank these out. They somehow figured out how to not make you wait two or three years like some shows not going to name names do, and they keep the quality up. So that's something exciting. And as always, we cover a lot in this conversation. Yes, we do some of the greatest hits, whether it's Dracula and Harry Potter, Batman Films, The Fifth Element, and more, some great stories in this one, and I'm so, so thrilled to share it. My thanks to Gary, his folks, and Apple TV, and the Toronto International Film Festival that's been a home to this great festival for so many years.

• 3:28Josh Horowitz?

  And I, like I said, I've been coming for nearly 20 years and absolutely adore it. I've seen so many friends and great films here over the years, including this year. So always a pleasure to be here and such a thrill to bring Happy, Sad, Confused as a live event to Toronto on this occasion with Gary Oldman. Okay, remember, check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happy/sadconfused, early access, discount codes, live events, all sorts of cool stuff. If you like what I do, check it out over there. But for now, let's get to the main event. Here is me. Oh, and I'll just mention one thing. Audio, because we were in this live environment, might not be up to our usual higher standards, but forgive that, please, because it was a live event and kind of a little bit out of my control, frankly.

• 4:13Josh Horowitz?

  But you'll hear and see everything you need to see and hear. So here you go, me and Gary Oldman. Enjoy. I can't think of a better way to kick off the Toronto International Film Festival than with an actual visionary, my favorite actor, I can't believe Gary Oldman. We're talking again. Welcome, sir. It's good to see you.

• 4:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, nice to see you. Thank you.

• 4:34Josh Horowitz?

  Would your wife and family also agree you're a visionary? Is that an adjective that's often used to describe you at home?

• 4:43Speaker 00

  No, it's the first time it's ever been used.

• 4:45Josh Horowitz?

  What are the adjectives that would describe you? If I, if I got your friends and family up here, what would be the first words you think they would use to describe you?

• 4:57Speaker 00

  I'm a, I'd be a bit of a softie.

• 5:03Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 5:04Speaker 00

  Yeah. I cry at like, you know, movie of the week and stuff like. I'd like to think I'm loyal, I'm a good, I'm a good friend, I think. I don't have many, but the friends that I, but the friends that I do have, I've known for some of the, you know, for my friend George, I've known him for 45 years. So I have very, I have long friendships and loyalty is a big, big, big thing with me. Yeah.

• 5:49Josh Horowitz?

  You talk about sentimentality. I mean, like you, look, you've always been acclaimed from the start, but like especially in recent years, you get, you know, the Oscar and the BAFTAs, you're a visionary today, you're nominated for an Emmy, you were knighted last year. I mean, was that, was that meaningful for you to be, to be knighted?

• 6:08Speaker 00

  Incredibly so. Yeah. Yeah, I was deeply honored to have that bestowed upon me. Yeah. And it's an experience that is, I mean, just unique and unto its, unto itself. And it was at Windsor Castle, which in itself is just the whole pump and circumstance of it is quite sort of overwhelming and to have, you know, to have your work or over the years, you know, recognized in that sense is, is a beautiful thing. Yeah.

• 6:52Josh Horowitz?

  Is it true that Prince William outed himself as a big Slow Horses fan to you?

• 6:56Speaker 00

  Actually, the royals, yes, I believe, I know that Camilla, the queen, is a big, is a big fan because, well, I've run into her a couple of times. Like you do. And, and are there, are there any more? I hope it's, it's coming back, isn't it? So, you know, and, and it was William who said to me, every time you come on the screen, he said, I just want to give you a good wash. So they're big, they're, yeah, they're big, they're big fans. It's hard to imagine, isn't it?

• 7:38Speaker 00

  They're sort of watching Windsor at the palace on their, on their sofa. Slow horses is nearly on.

• 7:47Josh Horowitz?

  But the comment about needing a good wash reminds me, like, it must be so lovely, like, because of the nature of the character you play, Jackson Lamb, when people see you out and about and you're put together, it's like, oh, wow, he's, look at this, this is a miracle.

• 8:04Speaker 00

  The thing that I'm, well, I'm not asked, but the other members of the cast are always asked, does he smell?

• 8:12Josh Horowitz?

  And I can attest, you smell amazing.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  I don't smell, no, it's all done with, it's all smoke and mirrors.

• 8:22Josh Horowitz?

  We'll, we'll get to Slow Horses, and I should mention, season six is fantastic. It's about to drop on Apple TV. You're all going to absolutely adore it, and there's more to come after that, thankfully. But going back, and we've had some conversations about your career. I mean, we've talked before about, you know, Sid and Nancy and prick up your ears kind of watching you in film. You know, like, I think by virtue of Sid and Nancy especially, you kind of got the reputation of like, oh, this is like, this is a rebel, this is a punk actor. Is that who you were as a young man? Would you describe yourself as a rebel as a kid?

• 8:55Speaker 00

  No, not particularly, but it was a reputation that I enjoyed. And I, I, I played it up a bit, yeah.

• 9:06Josh Horowitz?

  In what way?

• 9:07Speaker 00

  Well, you know, that kind of, the sort of bad boy thing. I feel like I'm, can I, I feel like I'm not on a level with you.

• 9:16Josh Horowitz?

  You were on a much higher level, metaphorically.

• 9:18Speaker 00

  No, I want to be, no, I want to be on a level with you. There you are. I can see, I can see you now. Yeah, I must have, I think I played the upper bit, sort of wild, wild boy for a while. I mean, I, I mean, I'm, I mean, it's no, it's no secret that I used to drink and I am 29 years some.

• 9:49Speaker 00

  Which is

• 9:53Speaker 00

  which is which is something.

• 9:56Josh Horowitz?

  It's accomplishment.

• 9:56Speaker 00

  It is a huge accomplishment, but um, so I was a bit, yeah, I was a bit of a rebel, a bit of a wild, wild boy back in, back in the day. All my heroes.

• 10:07Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:07Speaker 00

  As a kid, you look at these, they've, they've alcoholics and drug addicts.

• 10:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Well, the Peter O'Toole's, et cetera.

• 10:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, the Peter O'Toole's and the Richard Harris and Richard Burton and you, you know, you'd look at writers or poets and they were opium addicts and it's all this, you were romanticizing all that sort of leg, that legacy and um, and they, the booze didn't help. It got in the way.

• 10:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:40Speaker 00

  You think it, you think it's helping for a while, but um, it, yeah.

• 10:48Josh Horowitz?

  Takes a toll.

• 10:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, it takes a toll and it catches, it catches up with you and I'm just, I'm just very grateful that I had the wherewithal and just to say, you know, I wouldn't be here.

• 11:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:02Speaker 00

  I certainly wouldn't be here.

• 11:04Josh Horowitz?

  What was the, the first job post that transformation and do you remember it feeling, there must've been nerves because again, there's that kind of romanticized notion that this keeps me, this gives me what I need.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  That you, yeah. I did a film years ago with, with Dennis Hopper, who, who, who, again, was, enjoyed sobriety after many, many years of abuse. And he told me a story that um, he was working on one particular film and he would drink 15 beers a day, but, but then that was on top of the, you know, in the evening, he would move on to, you know, branding, in the evening, but during the, but during the day, he would, he would

• 11:56Speaker 00

  drink about, he told me it was about 15 or 16 beers. But what he would do is he would also couple it with cranberry juice because it's good for the liver.

• 12:09Josh Horowitz?

  It's all about balance in life. You gotta, you gotta.

• 12:11Speaker 00

  You have to balance.

• 12:14Josh Horowitz?

  You can't be stupid about this stuff.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  I'll never forget that. That was, and he, and he, he told me this with absolutely serious vibes.

• 12:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah. So I, I mentioned Sid and Nancy. I discovered something. I heard something literally just this past week that fascinated me. Even before you got Sid and Nancy and you're living the life in the theater, I was talking to you backstage about Kenneth Branagh and Freddie Fox's new film. Kenneth Branagh mentioned that in about like 83 or 84, he remembers going on an audition for Dune and seeing you and Daniel Day-Lewis and Colin Firth, literally all lined up auditioning for David Lynch. Do you have any memory of that?

• 12:53Speaker 00

  Um.

• 12:56Speaker 00

  Well, I was still drinking.

• 13:02Josh Horowitz?

  The regulations will get better in the last 30 years.

• 13:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, we used to pass, we used to see one another going, you know, going in and coming out. There was, there was, there was Daniel, yeah, Colin and, and then Tim Roth and um, yeah, there was, yeah, a whole sort of gang of us. We were the, they called us the Brit Pack, didn't they? Do you remember? You had the Brat Pack.

• 13:27Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:29Speaker 00

  Forgive me. America.

• 13:33Speaker 00

  That's we're in Canada. We're in Canada. So America had the, the Brat Pack and we had the Brit Pack and we were all going up for the, for the, for the same, for the same roles.

• 13:49Josh Horowitz?

  Were you competitive at the time? Was it a?

• 13:51Speaker 00

  Well.

• 13:55Speaker 00

  It, hmm, it's, that's the thing. You, it's not a competition. You really, really have to focus on what, what you're doing and not what someone else is doing or achieving. And occasionally you can, you know, it can, can niggled you a bit, you know, and you think, they're, they're doing awfully well, aren't they? But, but I think as you, as I've got older, um, God, good luck to them and God bless them. I mean, it's, I don't see it as a, as a competition. I, I mean, Daniel is, we're on, he's, I think he's a

• 14:38Speaker 00

  year older than me, but um, we're of the same generation and I, I think Daniel is um, an extraordinary actor. I mean, just transcendent and there's, there's, there's no question. Um, I, I don't, but I don't, I don't feel that I'm in, I'm in competition with him. I just wish him the very best.

• 15:08Josh Horowitz?

  I'm not trying to start a beef with you and Daniel Day-Lewis.

• 15:10Speaker 00

  No, no, no, there's no, no, there's, there's.

• 15:12Josh Horowitz?

  But if you want to start one, that would be amazing for me.

• 15:14Speaker 00

  No, no, we're, no, we're friendly and, and I'm just saying, but there's a lot of, there's a lot of wonderful people. Um, a film that I particularly loved, which was, I can't remember now if it was last year or early this year, was Train Dreams.

• 15:32Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yes.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  Um, and um, and I thought that Joel Edgerton's performance was absolutely breathtaking. I was in love with this performance. Um, and I, for my money, I, it was.

• 15:54Josh Horowitz?

  That was the one?

• 15:55Speaker 00

  That, that, yeah. I think that performance is extraordinary and, but.

• 16:00Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you just made Joel Edgerton's year.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  But I'm not, I'm not in competition.

• 16:04Josh Horowitz?

  No, of course.

• 16:05Speaker 00

  I can look at it and go, wow. I, I think it's, I think it's great when you can look at something and, and um, in, in, in your field, look at something and just say, you know, I didn't know how they did that. Wow. I, I can't do that. You know what I mean? I think that's a, that's, I, I love good film and TV and good acting and good directing and, and only, only want to encourage more of it.

• 16:40Josh Horowitz?

  I want you to know, I know literally every five, of the 500 people in here are all thinking the same thing. That's what we think about you when we're watching your stuff. How is he doing that? Like, truly. More Happy, Say Confused coming up.

• 17:03Speaker 03

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• 17:48Speaker 04

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• 18:31Speaker 04

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• 18:49Josh Horowitz?

  I want to mention, more than mention, I'll talk about Slow Horses. Gary has been acknowledged for the third year in a row with an Emmy nomination. Well deserved. That's coming next, next week. It's actually your fourth Emmy nomination. Does anybody know what Gary was first nominated for at the Emmys? Friends.

• 19:09Speaker 00

  Friends.

• 19:09Josh Horowitz?

  Friends. That's what we call a fun fact. How did you end up in Friends?

• 19:14Speaker 00

  My comedy period. That was, yeah, it was 80, 50. How did I end up in Friends? Yeah, Matt LeBlanc. I worked with Matt LeBlanc in a film called Lost in Space. And we, we became buddies and then that, the spitting actor

• 19:32Speaker 00

  came up and he said, would you like to do it? It was, I loved it. I could get really used to it. You come in on a Monday, you did the read through, then they rewrite. They send you some rewrites on a Wednesday. And then Thursday, can't even remember if we came in on Thursday. And then Friday, you came in and you blocked it. Friday afternoon, you shoot it in front of an audience, you're done by five. I thought, I thought I could, I could get used to this.

• 20:09Josh Horowitz?

  This could be the next, this could be the next phase of your career after Slow Horses, a sitcom.

• 20:14Speaker 00

  A sitcom. But I tell you, what was wonderful was observing them, just going through the technical rehearsal. And watching those actors, it was, it was like breathing for them.

• 20:29Josh Horowitz?

  By then, well, she

• 20:31Speaker 00

  It was as easy as breathing. It was just, it was a wonderful experience of watching it. Like the rehearsal and behind the scenes of that show, yeah.

• 20:44Josh Horowitz?

  I would imagine in a similar way, that's what Slow Horses is, especially now as you've

• 20:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're all pretty oiled in. We were pretty, yeah.

• 20:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So this is such a gift, both to the audience and you, I know. You have such affection for this character and this series and this company that you've worked with. And as you well know, this is not like, you know, you worry like at different ages, like are the parts going to come? Are the rewarding parts going to come? In your 60s, you have found arguably like one of your favorite, if not favorite roles. Can you talk to me a little bit and the audience a little bit about just the meaningfulness of this role?

• 21:18Speaker 00

  Well, I feel very, I feel very fortunate to, as you say, you get to a certain point in life and you hope the work is, you know, for some, for some people, the work dries up. And for whatever, for serious reason, it didn't mean they get less talented or any less good, but and I was, I was a big fan of long-form TV.

• 21:50Speaker 00

  And I would watch, talking about not being in a competition, but I would watch sometimes with envy. These actors in these, in these shows and think, God, it would be so wonderful to do that, to come back season after season. A sort of company of actors rather, rather in the way, a closeness and a conspiracy that you have when you do a play. To be in a company, to come and play a character and really go on a journey with a character.

• 22:29Speaker 00

  And I said to my producing partner, Doug, I'd like to, is there anything, I would love to do something long-form. I'd love to do TV and enjoy what these, these other actors, obviously, you know.

• 22:46Josh Horowitz?

  They're getting something out of it, yeah.

• 22:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I said, you know, is there anything around? I said, but, I said, there's a, there's a but. I said, something in the spy world would be, would be good if there's anything out there in the spy world. I'd quite like that. I don't want prosthetic makeup because I've had so much prosthetic makeup. I do not, I do not want to live in a, in a makeup chair for four or five hours. I want my own hair. I don't want to wear a wig. I want so many wigs. I'd like something maybe a little closer to my own accent because I've done many accents and things and I don't want big elaborate clothes. I don't want, you know, I just want,

• 23:35Speaker 00

  I just want like one costume. I want to come in, throw on the costume, put some grease in my hair. And, you know, lo and behold,

• 23:47Speaker 00

  be careful what you wish for.

• 23:50Josh Horowitz?

  We call this manifestation. You were the master of it, yeah.

• 23:53Speaker 00

  I did. I manifested. And then we were on a plane together, going, always on a, always on a plane together. And he always says to me, I've got a lot to tell you. We'll catch up at 30,000 feet.

• 24:07Speaker 00

  And we're on a plane somewhere and he's, and he's reading a script and he's chattling away. And I said, what are you reading? And he said, I am reading a character that I think is about to become your best friend.

• 24:22Speaker 00

  And, and it was Slow Horses. And six years, yeah, six years on.

• 24:33Speaker 00

  And we're still, and we're still going. Yeah.

• 24:39Josh Horowitz?

  You've said to me before, you often kind of like put obstacles in your way before kind of taking on a character, saying no or otherwise.

• 24:47Speaker 00

  Almost everything I've done, I've said no to.

• 24:50Josh Horowitz?

  So you

• 24:51Speaker 00

  And it came back.

• 24:52Josh Horowitz?

  Were there any obstacles that you put in place for Jackson? Because you didn't say no, you were excited seemingly, but in on another, in any other way, did you create obstacles for yourself in this character?

• 25:03Speaker 00

  Well, because the one thing I have is,

• 25:11Speaker 00

  I thought, wouldn't it be fun just to maybe, you know, his, his description on it was such. But anyone would tell you that you get, you put on a little weight and then you get to a certain age. And it's not quite so easy, not quite so easy to take off. So, but there are no, no, there were no, there were no obstacles. No, not, not, not, not with this one. I was really thirsty for it.

• 25:45Speaker 00

  The source material was amazing, these books. I mean, the whole, I mean, I'm here, you know, bathing in the warmth of the Slow Horses legacy.

• 26:01Speaker 00

  But really, that world and those people are all from the imagination of Mick Heron, who wrote the books. He came, he came up with the whole thing and

• 26:15Josh Horowitz?

  It's a testament to, to his brain, but also the environment that you all have created on set because I mean, I'm sure they're all, we're all Slow Horses fans here. I mean, the company of actors.

• 26:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:24Josh Horowitz?

  It's, it's, it's a true testament to what you've created, that each season, new and returning characters come into it. And as you well know, like the key in any production is like being in the same production. And that's, I think, like what I sense in Slow Horses, everybody knows they're, knows what they're in. They're in the same thing, right?

• 26:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:42Josh Horowitz?

  Have you had, you must have had that experience at some point, being on a set where that epiphany happens where like, oh, I'm in a different movie than the director is directing.

• 26:51Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:54Speaker 00

  I should say something. And you're working with sometimes actors that you just think you're, you know, I, I tell you, I'm, I'm, I'm sure many of you, are you a Kong Brothers fan? I mean, it's just, yeah.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  And they tend to, they dial in a tone or a frequency that, that you just, you five minutes, you know, it's a Kong Brothers movie. And there's a certain acting and a, but it's, but it's consistent. You know, and I've been in situations where, you know, someone's in a Kong Brothers movie and someone's in a Martin Scorsese movie. You know, you do, you do get that occasionally with a tonally, it's, it's, it's imbalanced.

• 27:52Josh Horowitz?

  What do you do in that situation?

• 27:54Speaker 00

  You just have to really, well, you can speak up. And, and then if you, if you're heard, that's, that's, that's, that's the other thing. The thing I would say about the Slow Horses is,

• 28:14Speaker 00

  well, there's been a current thing about the Will Smith leaving and, and the, or the showrunner.

• 28:29Speaker 00

  We have, we have many showrunners. There's a wonderful team of, of creative producers. There's a, a room of writers. And then the actors also, who now really understand the DNA of these people, these characters coming. It is, it is very, very collaborative exercise, Slow Horses. And we, you, you never want, you can feel that you can speak up, that you're not put down, you're not judged.

• 29:10Speaker 00

  And sometimes in, in past experiences with movies, sometimes you, you, it's and a director sets an atmosphere where you can really work. And really feel that you can let go and be creative and other times and it's, it's, and it comes from the top.

• 29:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:35Speaker 00

  It always comes from there.

• 29:44Speaker 05

  Well, summer may be over, but things are still hot on Turtle Time. Goodbye, Next Gen NYC, goodbye, The Valley, we'll see you next year. But now Turtle Time is gearing up to cover some of the most beloved franchises in the Bravo universe. Turtle Time is covering Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Real Housewives of Orange County, and Real Housewives of Potomac. Salt Lake City, Orange County, Potomac, these are wonderful franchises. Could you imagine what Amy and I are gonna say about them? You'll hear some of the hottest takes you've ever heard in your life. You'll feel like it's still summer. Oh, these will be hot takes. Uh, fall and winter, great job trying to, uh, cool things off. No, it's still hot over on Turtle Time. You're gonna get that summer warmth.

• 30:27Speaker 05

  So put away your bathing suit, put away the sunscreen. Summer's over, but you can still feel hot, hot, hot by listening to Turtle Time. Some of those other podcasts, you know it's fall or winter when you're listening to them. But Turtle Time, it's kinda like summer. It's hot. So enjoy the Turtle Time podcast, co-hosted by me, Riley Hamilton, and Amy Scarlata, and it's available almost every single day of the week. Better luck next time, fall and winter.

• 31:00Speaker 03

  It's the feeling of escapism, the call of glory that drives us to build fantastic worlds, yet some grow darker than others. Dark Dice is the improvised horror podcast diving into the depths of madness and the corrupt divine in the fantasy realm of terror. Wayward souls who dare risk their characters at our table bring our stories to crawling life. Enhanced with award-winning soundscapes and music, Dark Dice mixes the role of the dice with the drive to survive. So join us and hear the horrors of Dark Dice wherever you listen to podcasts.

• 31:33Josh Horowitz?

  Let me mention some of the now iconic roles in your filmography, if you'll indulge me, in All of Us. Because I think, you know, about your chameleon-like tendencies, especially, it's so funny, like you talk about, like, you know, Slow Horses being kind of like, no prosthetics, close to your voice. It's like, you're kind of in this, the total opposite era for you. Like, between Mank and Slow Horses, you kind of like went in the other direction and found it just as rewarding. That's just something, I don't know, that I find, I find that, yeah.

• 32:01Speaker 00

  Actually, it was Mank to Jackson.

• 32:04Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. That was the last big, well, of course, my, my cameo, you know, Oppenheimer.

• 32:14Josh Horowitz?

  I missed you in The Odyssey, though, I will say. You should have, really.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  Did you?

• 32:18Josh Horowitz?

  I did.

• 32:18Speaker 00

  Did you?

• 32:18Josh Horowitz?

  That was the one thing it was missing.

• 32:21Speaker 00

  I thought that, too.

• 32:26Josh Horowitz?

  I think of your voices, though, throughout, they reverberate in my brain as a film lover. And I think of something like, and I know you don't have the most affection for it, but I'm gonna say it, The Fifth Element.

• 32:41Josh Horowitz?

  Where did that voice come from? Of Zorg.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  The voice for The Fifth Element, well, um, Luc Besson would, now, here's the thing. He would give you line readings, oh, wow, which is supposed to be the thing you should never, ever do to a actor. You find a way of getting what you want, you know, but, but you should never give a, they say you should never give an actor a line reading. I mean, David Fincher gives you line reading, so I'm happy to take it, actually. How do you want it said? Okay, I'll say it like that. But Luc would sometimes give you line readings, but of course, he had this French voice. He had the sad, very French accent at that time.

• 33:27Speaker 00

  His English wasn't great. So he would talk like this.

• 33:36Speaker 00

  And he would give you a direction, and you would say, and he would give you an inflection of how he wanted the, but, but he was hearing it in his, in his accent. And I thought, how can I give him what he wants? But not do, you know, Emmanuel Zorg, not, not make it, and not, and I'm supposed to sort of, are we in America? You know, it was never really, we're in some...

• 34:06Josh Horowitz?

  Other region, yeah.

• 34:07Speaker 00

  So I thought, how can I get close to what he wants, but, you know, make him happy? And, and, you know, it'll help me get through.

• 34:20Speaker 00

  So I could survive it. How can I survive this? And so what I came up with was, I had a little forced teeth that I used to put in. So I had the forced, the front teeth, and I did a cross between, it was Bugs Bunny meets Ross Perot.

• 34:43Speaker 00

  And that, and that's...

• 34:45Josh Horowitz?

  That old chestnut, everybody does that one, yeah.

• 34:48Speaker 00

  You remember, Ross Perot, used to, that'd sound like, that'd sound a bit like that. And I just thought, well, if I just do, yeah, what's up, duck? If I, if I just marry the two, then, and it was perfectly, I wouldn't always, I wouldn't always come a character that way, but it was a cartoon. It was, it's bigger than life. It's, it's a cartoon. So, um, but that's how that, that happened, yeah.

• 35:20Josh Horowitz?

  It worked. Don't worry, don't worry.

• 35:22Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 35:23Josh Horowitz?

  Another one that works, I'm, I'll always bring up Bram Stoker's Dracula with you, because I think it's just...

• 35:31Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sorry. As long as we're talking, I will ask new questions, because I'm always obsessed with this film. Um, I mean, I've been lucky enough in recent years to do a lot with Winona, actually, Winona Ryder, and talk to her a lot about the production.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 35:43Josh Horowitz?

  And she, and I will say, she has nothing but love for you, Gary. You should know that.

• 35:47Speaker 00

  That's very kind of her.

• 35:47Josh Horowitz?

  And I, and I know, like, you know, it's famously kind of like, a bit of a fraught production, I don't know if that was overblown or not, but, um, did tensions, like, elicit, help the production in some way? I don't know if, in the case of, like, Francis, kind of like, pushing you, asking you to improvise in character supposedly, did that help, as you recall, or?

• 36:11Speaker 00

  I mean, overall, yeah, yeah, it was good. I mean, overall, it was a good experience. And I only wanted to do it because of Francis.

• 36:22Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 36:22Speaker 00

  I mean, I didn't, it wasn't sort of on my bucket list.

• 36:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  You know, I'd, I've gotta play Dracula, or I really need to play Drac, I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't anything, I'd never even, it never even crossed my mind, you know? And then it was, so the interesting thing about it was that it was Francis Coppola's Dracula, and what, how he would see it, and what vision that he would, that he would bring to it. And we, we, we, because sometimes we'd come together and we would butt heads, yeah.

• 36:56Josh Horowitz?

  There's some amazing behind-the-scenes footage.

• 36:58Speaker 00

  Oh, I know, some of it looks, yeah, I look at it.

• 37:00Josh Horowitz?

  Have you seen it?

• 37:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. I'm not, no, I'm not very, I'm not, I'm not very proud of it, but...

• 37:07Josh Horowitz?

  The final product, too.

• 37:08Speaker 00

  But the fact, yeah, but we, we, we sometimes clashed. Yeah. But, then, when I late, you see, this is the funny thing, is, when I later directed, and I used a clip from Apocalypse Now, um, I obviously had to ask permission, and he gave me that clip free. And he said, Gary, you know, Gary can have whatever he wants. And then later, I ran into him again in Cannes, and, um, we, we, whatever differences we had at the time, you know, we sort of, we made up.

• 37:53Speaker 00

  But, um, I used to love the way, I actually would like, I loved the way he would direct, because he would talk to you through, in the take. Like, it's like as if you were making a silent movie. You love, you love her. You've never loved a woman, like, kiss her, run your feet, he would sort of, you know?

• 38:24Speaker 00

  More, more. But, and he would say, okay, that was good, oh, let's, now, go out, come in and do that again, and the camera was, the camera would be rolling, and he would, I can't, you know what? And we're, we're all a bit, we're all a bit nuts. And to do the job I do, and directors, they're all, they're all very strange.

• 38:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 38:57Speaker 00

  And they're great, and they're great, but, and some of them are very good friends, but, but we're all a bit nuts. So what you do is, you just slip in, and you go, oh, she's like this, okay, he's like this, ah, he wants to do a hundred takes.

• 39:22Speaker 00

  I'll surrender to the process, and I'll go along and do that. This person over here only wants to do two takes and is moving on. And that is, and you just have to morph into each...

• 39:38Josh Horowitz?

  Can't impose your own...

• 39:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, you can, you bring your, you know, most directors will cast you and expect you to do, to do your work. You don't get to a Chris Nolan set, and he, he's hired you because he knows that you're gonna do your homework, and you're gonna come, and you're gonna know the lines, and you're gonna be prepped. I mean, that's, that's, you know? But they're all, they're all different, and, um, and you, and you really, you have to find a way of working with them, um, and, or it will, it'll be really tricky. It, it, it could make their life, your life, and the people that you're working with, it

• 40:26Speaker 00

  could make their lives a misery. So you have to, and I was a little more combative when I was younger.

• 40:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:36Speaker 00

  It's something that I've just learned with age, that, you know that thing, I'm speaking to maybe the over-sixties in the audience, but, you know, the thing where you just go, life's too short.

• 40:50Speaker 00

  Life's too short.

• 40:55Speaker 00

  You know, you can, you can still fight. You can still have the

• 41:00Josh Horowitz?

  It's picking your battles too.

• 41:02Speaker 00

  The commitment to the work and everything. But let's get along.

• 41:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:07Speaker 00

  You know, rather than, you know, I read those stories about, you know, Fitzcarraldo and, you know, where, didn't he get a gun and he was gonna shoot him?

• 41:16Josh Horowitz?

  I believe so.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  Because he wanted, because he wanted to walk off the movie.

• 41:20Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 41:21Speaker 00

  And he said, "You're not gonna walk off the movie because I'm gonna, I will kill you and then I'll kill myself."

• 41:28Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, you thought you were crazy as a, as a young actor. You were fine. You were not, it was nothing.

• 41:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. Who is that? Kinsky, isn't it?

• 41:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:35Speaker 00

  Klaus Kinsky. Yeah.

• 41:37Josh Horowitz?

  Let's continue our ongoing debate about the quality of your work in Harry Potter that we've had over the years.

• 41:44Speaker 00

  Oh, stop it.

• 41:47Josh Horowitz?

  Is that what it's about? You just want me to compliment you more because you're amazing, a serious flag? But, okay, you've said before to me and others, you've said, "You, you call your work mediocre. That's insane." That, we're gonna leave that behind. Do you have a favorite scene at least? Can you cite like a moment that you felt between you and Daniel that, that you do take pride in?

• 42:04Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, I have the scene with Daniel where I talk about that the people that we, we've loved, or that have loved us, live in here and that we carry them always with us. Yeah? Something like that. Yeah, that, that, I loved working, I loved working on the, in fact, I just told a story just very recently.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  You all remember the rat, Scappers, the rat? Well, there's, there's electronic ones and there's, you know, the sort of, the, those technical people, magicians with what, what they can do. But there is a real Scappers, right? And he would have to have a break every fifteen minutes.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  And we'd be like in a scene. He would go, "Why were, why were stopped?" You know? Well, Scappers gets a bit stressed out. "Oh, really?" Yeah. And he has to have a break. So every fifteen minutes, the rat. In, in this scene with the, where the rat, really, I mean, it was Scappers' scene, you know? We were just there. It was all about the rat. But, um, yeah, he would have to be, he would have to be taken off. I do remember, I do remember that. And at a certain point, the kids go to school.

• 43:31Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Where's your excuse? You need a fifteen minute break.

• 43:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, actually, when the rat kept going out, I kept saying, "Who's his agent?" I mean, he's got,

• 43:41Speaker 00

  "What a fantastic deal. There's rats on."

• 43:45Speaker 00

  But the, um, yeah, and then the kids, and then the kids would go to school. And I would finish the scene with Daniel standing.

• 43:55Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 43:55Speaker 00

  You know, and that's, again, okay, this is what it's gonna be like.

• 44:01Josh Horowitz?

  This is the nature of the beast.

• 44:02Speaker 00

  This is what it is. And we, and we've just gotta, and we've just gotta get through it. But I, I remember, um, uh, I tell you a lovely story about Alan Rickman. God bless him. Alan Rickman, yeah.

• 44:23Speaker 00

  He, um, not only was he sort of, Alan was kind of like the, the cheerleader of it. You, you, you know, he was, he was into it. He was doing it. So he was with it and committed to it, kind of thing. But he would bring in kids every single day. He would bring them in from a school. He would bring them in from a hospital. He would bring friends and their kids in every single day and lunchtimes and things.

• 45:05Speaker 00

  He would take kids around and tour the sets and we would meet them and, um, and he would, he would, I thought that was, I thought that was the most extraordinary thing, that he was in this world that he got to be in, you know, and come in every day. And that he wanted to sort of, and he knew how much it meant to these kids, you know? So he sort of wanted to share. I'll never forget that. He was such a darling like that.

• 45:36Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, you've, you've worked with so many iconic actors and, you know, by way into the, the Batman films, I want to ask you about working with the, the sadly departed Heath Ledger, who we lost way too soon. And, you know, you did get to work with Heath, obviously, in The Dark Knight. And I think of that interrogation scene, him bathed in black, that amazing silhouetted image of him that Chris created on set.

• 45:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:00Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have any memories of just like, I mean, he seemed to be on another level on that film. It was,

• 46:04Speaker 00

  Heath?

• 46:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, he was extraordinary. Yeah. It was a wonder to be honed on the set. Yeah. He was, he was in it. Yeah.

• 46:17Josh Horowitz?

  You, you said like, it did feel like the beginnings of a relationship. I, I was watching, like, you, you accepted the SAG Award for him posthumously.

• 46:24Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We, yeah, we, yeah, I could see being friends with him. Yeah. And, um, and I remember Douglas, yours, and you told me, you were the one that broke the news to me.

• 46:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 46:43Speaker 00

  Um, and I was in Atten, Atten. And Philip Hoffman.

• 46:50Josh Horowitz?

  Those were two.

• 46:50Speaker 00

  Philip Seymour Hoffman, you know, and you, just both. It meant extraordinary talents, both of them. And to lose them, to lose them like, within, actually, within a, relatively short.

• 47:08Josh Horowitz?

  No, they're the two actors that this next generation, they, they, they talk about the most, I feel like. And you, frankly, I mean, among others.

• 47:19Josh Horowitz?

  Leonardo DiCaprio has famously said, his advice supposedly to young actors is, "No superheroes and no hard drugs." What would be Gary Oldman's advice to young actors?

• 47:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, no superheroes and no hard drugs. He's got it right.

• 47:36Speaker 00

  I, um, uh,

• 47:43Speaker 00

  be on time.

• 47:55Speaker 00

  Come prepared. Know the lines. You know, just, that's, that's the minimal, isn't it? It's the, I mean, it's like page one. Like, come with, and come with, come with ideas. Have a, have an idea. Throw it out there. And not every, not always, you know, the directors, well, you could come with ten ideas and they may reject them all, they may reject nine and go, you know, that, that's a really good idea. But I, I've, I've noticed a little bit of just people who, they don't know the text well enough.

• 48:36Speaker 00

  And it's not to say that they haven't looked at the lines, but it's, you, you know, you have, you have to know the material. If you don't know the material, you can't relax and you can't listen. Because you're in your head going, um, I've got a line coming up. You're not, you're not in, you're not in it.

• 49:06Josh Horowitz?

  Right. You're in your, you're in your own film, not someone else's.

• 49:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're in your own film. So, um, that's always been a big, that's always been a big thing with me. You have to really know the material and so that you can live in the thing and really, and really listen to other actors and, and the people that you're in the scene with. And, um, you know, the, the craft, just the sheer craft of, you know, hitting marks and

• 49:42Speaker 00

  camera and where you have to look. And sometimes, you know, you have to, I've done it, you know, you have to look to a piece of tape. You know, yeah, you know, is that a bird? Is it a plane? You have to succumb with imagination.

• 50:01Speaker 00

  But you, you gotta, you gotta learn the craft of what you're doing because you, if you're looking for truth, I guess we all are, in whatever, whatever creative journey we're on. But, you know, that has to marry with technique.

• 50:20Speaker 00

  And so you can, so you'd know it.

• 50:24Josh Horowitz?

  You can be open and,

• 50:25Speaker 00

  You know it and then you forget it.

• 50:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:27Speaker 00

  Kind of thing. Does that make sense?

• 50:29Josh Horowitz?

  Absolutely. Now I'm gonna be a great actor, thanks to that simple tip from Gary Oldman.

• 50:33Speaker 00

  No drugs and superheroes.

• 50:34Josh Horowitz?

  And no, oh, yeah. I've got that down. Don't worry. Um, before I let you go, here's a random one. We were talking backstage. Shall we set the record straight? You don't know who James Bond is, do you, Gary Oldman?

• 50:43Speaker 00

  Oh, please.

• 50:48Josh Horowitz?

  Or if you do, do you want to announce Jack Lowden right here and now?

• 50:53Speaker 00

  Okay, here's what I said.

• 50:57Speaker 00

  Let me tell you. And they've taken it, as Doug pointed out, they've taken it to the very edge of almost misquoting me, but they, but they don't. I was in an interview and with a Canadian journalist, and she asked me about, oh, you know, James Bond and Jack Lowden. And I didn't bring it up.

• 51:28Speaker 00

  She brought it up. I did not volunteer this. And I said, well, there's a rumor has it that they've already cast Bond, but they haven't announced it yet, which I believe, I believe is true. There's six people, I think, on a shortlist. I heard a rumor that they've picked James Bond, but they haven't announced it yet, which is their prerogative. You know, not for me to announce James Bond. And I simply said, because they brought up Jack and they know that he's on the shortlist, Jack Lowden.

• 52:11Speaker 00

  And I said, um, yeah, I hear that they've, I think they've cast it, but obviously we're waiting for them to announce it. I said, fingers crossed for my mate Jack. That was it.

• 52:27Josh Horowitz?

  Confirmation, as far as I'm concerned, yeah.

• 52:29Speaker 00

  And it made headlines.

• 52:33Speaker 00

  I, like I've got, like I actually know, and that I've got a, I'm, I'm in with the, I'm in with the Bond people, like I've got a, I'm, I'm on, I've got a red phone from, you know.

• 52:49Speaker 00

  So let me please put the record straight. I do not know who the next James Bond is. I remember I got in a lot of trouble because I said that there was going to be a third Batman. And they hadn't announced it.

• 53:05Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, boy.

• 53:06Speaker 00

  And I got reprimanded for that. I got into a lot of, a lot of shit for that. So even if I knew who, even if I knew it was who the James Bond, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I've learned my lesson. I'm not going to open my mouth. So I do not know who, I'm hoping it's Jack.

• 53:38Josh Horowitz?

  And I'll, I'll just say for the record, look, you've kind of left your baddie period behind, but maybe one more, but, you know, Bond villain as Gary Oldman would be pretty awesome. I'll just go.

• 53:48Speaker 00

  No Bond villain.

• 53:48Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 53:50Speaker 00

  Not. Don't do drugs and Bond villains.

• 53:53Josh Horowitz?

  You don't want the white cat? You don't want the whole thing? No, okay.

• 53:55Speaker 00

  No, I've never, never, no, we've, there, there was an inquiry.

• 54:01Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sure.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  Back when I think Pierce was James. And, um, not, not, no, not for me, not a Bond villain. No.

• 54:10Josh Horowitz?

  But Jackson Lamb for him, we're going to end on this.

• 54:12Speaker 00

  Jackson Lamb, we can keep, I'll keep going with Jackson.

• 54:15Josh Horowitz?

  He is keeping, you are going because you've already shot, I believe we can say, season seven is coming, we know that, and perhaps more, we'll see.

• 54:22Speaker 00

  We don't know, but yes, season, season seven is in the can.

• 54:25Josh Horowitz?

  Come on, great.

• 54:26Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 54:32Josh Horowitz?

  But before season seven, I'll remind folks, Apple TV, uh, it's September 16th, season six, I've seen it all, it's fantastic, congratulations, and, um.

• 54:42Speaker 00

  And just let me say that, um, when this was announced, um, we requested Josh because he's really, is the best.

• 54:58Josh Horowitz?

  You've, you've just made, made 14-year-old Josh, whose favorite actor was Gary Oldman, very happy and still is.

• 55:03Speaker 00

  So let's talk about your work.

• 55:06Josh Horowitz?

  That's next time, we're out of time. Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Gary Oldman, everybody, come on.

• 55:17Speaker 04

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts, I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't, should do this by Josh.

• 55:34Speaker 06

  Steve Kubine and Nan McNamara's podcast from beneath the Hollywood sign.

• 55:39Speaker 04

  Mary Astor has been keeping a diary.

• 55:41Josh Horowitz?

  Mary writes everything down.

• 55:43Speaker 04

  And so this torrid affair with Georges Kaufman is chronicled on a daily basis.

• 55:48Josh Horowitz?

  In great detail. And I pulls out a box and gives McAllister a ring, saying, here's something to remember me by. This article caused Daryl Zanuck to hit the roof.

• 56:00Speaker 04

  Actress Ruth Roman followed that up with playing a foil to Betty Davis in Beyond the Force, I mean, if you can stand toe to toe with her.

• 56:08Josh Horowitz?

  And she does, because she plays the daughter of the man that Betty Davis kills out in the hunting trip.

• 56:14Speaker 04

  And it's directed by King Vidor, so he's no slouch.

• 56:17Josh Horowitz?

  Speaking of the Oscars, talking about what I call beginner's luck, the actors and actresses who won an Oscar on their very first film.

• 56:26Speaker 06

  Get your fix of old Hollywood from Steve and Nan on the podcast from beneath the Hollywood sign.