Baz Luhrmann, Vol. II

Baz Luhrmann isn't done with Elvis just yet. After his blockbuster biopic with Austin Butler, the singular filmmaker has crafted a unique documentary/concert film, EPIC, that is earning some of the best reviews of his career. He joins Josh to talk about his journey with Elvis, how close Harry Styles came to playing him, reflections on MOULIN ROUGE, and a sneak peek at his long gestating Joan of Ark film. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! QUINCE -- Go to ⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD⁠⁠ for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. NordVPN -- EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ ⁠⁠https://nordvpn.com/hsc⁠⁠ Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! Saily -- 🌎 Get an exclusive 15% discount on your first Saily data plans! Use code HSC at checkout. Download Saily app or go to to ⁠⁠https://saily.com/hsc⁠⁠ Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 02

  Josh, I can do one thing for you. Ready? Standing by. And action.

• 1:04Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 1:12Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, a truly iconic filmmaker, Baz Luhrmann, is back on the podcast, returning to the world of Elvis with his new film, Epic. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the pod, enjoying us on YouTube, on Spotify, however you're doing it. I appreciate you, guys. Remember to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already and spread the good word of what we do over here. Returning champion today. What a privilege to have Baz Luhrmann back on the show. Someone I absolutely grew up with. Romeo and Juliet, Moulin Rouge. These are films that are just part of my upbringing as a lover of film. I have a Moulin Rouge poster like 10 feet away from me in my place. So the fact that he came back on the pod, he was back, he was on the pod actually last

• 1:57Josh Horowitz?

  for his Elvis movie starring our buddy Austin Butler. And now he's back talking about this great concert slash documentary film. It's in theaters now. It's in IMAX in some theaters. I saw it in IMAX. It's fantastic. It is called Epic. I truly, truly highly recommend it. Before we get to more on Baz, let me just quickly mention, as always, remember, check out our Patreon. That's where we put all the content we put here a little bit early. Get early access, get discount codes to our live events, some really exciting live events we're about to announce, merch, all sorts of cool stuff. If you like what I do, support us over there, patreon.com/happy sad confused. Okay. Just a little more preamble on Baz

• 2:38Josh Horowitz?

  Orman. He is a filmmaker like no other. That is true. His name ironically came up very recently on the podcast when we were talking to Emerald Fennel, who is certainly an acolyte of Baz's, but also with many actors who have been through his famous, very unique casting process, whether it's Kate Hudson or Amanda Seyfried. No one casts people quite like Baz does, his infamous kind of screen tests, workshops, whatever you want to call them. This is a great conversation, not only about returning to the world of Elvis Presley, and it's a fascinating story of how this documentary came about, kind of in the course of making his Elvis biopic starring Austin Butler. All this footage was found of these concerts

• 3:21Josh Horowitz?

  in Vegas and beyond, as well as this, I think, 35, 40 minute audio tape of Elvis talking about his life in very frank terms. What Baz has now done in marrying it all together and working with Peter Jackson's folks to kind of refurbish the footage and look at as bright and vibrant as possible, is make a truly cinematic experience. Truly, I said this to Baz, I'm a casual Elvis fan at best, but it's quite a thing to see the king on the screen in this way, just so vital, so alive, just at the peak of his powers. Highly recommend this one. Epic is in theaters now. Check it out. We also talk about a great, many other things, including-

• 4:03Josh Horowitz?

  Romeo and Juliet, celebrating its 30th anniversary, Moulin Rouge, celebrating its 25th anniversary, close calls with a comic book character that I don't think he's talked about before, that he almost did way back when. Some really interesting stories from Baz here, one of the great, not only filmmakers, but conversationalists. So, so pleased this happened, so pleased you guys are here to listen and enjoy. And without any further ado, here's me and the one and only Baz Luhrmann. Here we go, Baz Luhrmann, back on the podcast where he belongs. Not in person, but Mother Nature didn't want us to be in the same space, apparently Baz.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Damn, damn that blizzard, damn. And I love New York. I got a bar in New York. I got a house in New York. You know, I'm missing New York.

• 4:43Josh Horowitz?

  I know. Last time you were on the podcast, it was one of the last audio-only podcasts of Happy Second Views we did, and you welcomed me into your home. And that was, that was such a treat to see the pure world of Baz Luhrmann in person. Amazing.

• 4:56Speaker 02

  I know. When was the last time?

• 4:59Josh Horowitz?

  Congratulations, though, on this one, sir. You've been really, you know, carrying this one on your back around the world, and it's all for a good cause. I got a chance to see this in IMAX over the weekend.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  Good, good. I saw it in IMAX.

• 5:12Josh Horowitz?

  It's amazing, sir. It's truly a, um, look, as a casual Elvis fan, along, I took my mom, another casual fan, she came out, she insisted, I say to you today, I get it now. I get what Elvis Presley is all about.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  I love that. I love your mom. I tell your mom I love her.

• 5:31Josh Horowitz?

  Talk to me a little bit about, I mean, this one, I, correct me if I'm wrong, this might be the best reviewed film in your illustrious career. I don't know if you pay attention to such a thing, but you're getting stellar reviews, uh, top to bottom on this.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Um, it's possible. I mean, no detractors. I, I tell you something, you know what, Josh, you're, as you say, you're a casual fan. Um, I had a, I was talking to a chap earlier today, and he said, I gotta tell you, I want to give you full disclosure. I have no interest in Elvis Presley. I never have. Not the music, not the guy. To me, he was just a Halloween costume, like basically a joke. He said, I'm in love now, you know? And I went, well, that's about the best review I could get. But I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't like...

• 6:20Speaker 02

  It's not like I'm purposefully out there proflotising. I did, when I made the film of Elvis, I did, Elvis was in my life as a kid, you know, like I, I loved him in the movies. We had a movie theatre for a while and I loved the movies. You know, probably they're not that great now when I look at them. Burning Love was dropped when I was a ballroom dancer, so that won me a few prizes. I thought that was cool. But I very quickly opened my heart to different music, you know, opera and the David Bowie's and all sorts of music, Michael's and all that. But Elvis was kind of there, but I really thought of Elvis, again in the movie, as a sort of Amadeus movie,

• 7:03Speaker 02

  as an exploration between the great salesman, the carny salesman, which is one side of America, and the beautiful Orphean soul that Elvis was. Spent years down there, Graceland, made the movie,

• 7:20Speaker 02

  and then discovered this footage by accident, the struggle to save it from the salt mines, the struggle to then work with wonderful Peter Jackson, bring it back to life, the struggle with the music, knowing we had, we had the voice and stuff, but we had damaged orchestrations. So, and then finding the tape of him talking and saying, "Let's let him tell the story."

• 7:43Speaker 02

  But along the way, something unexpected happened, I think. And that is in working with John O. Redman, who was my creative partner in this. By deciding to let the man tell the story and looking for, you know, having to do deals with collectors and stuff, I felt like I got to know him and I was reminded only recently that when Elvis died, I kick on the bus and he said, "Um, hey, Elvis died today." And I went, "What?" And in my mind, in my ten-year-old mind or whatever it was, I went, "That can't be right, because I was gonna like meet him and we were gonna be friends."

• 8:25Speaker 02

  Which is of course a kid's imagination. But somehow I feel like I have met him. And now I feel like I'm... Something's happening here that's beyond me. And maybe that's why the reviews are so like they are because all I've done is taken away all the rust, given Elvis the best possible reproduction, there's no AI. And the man, the artist, the vibrating energy on stage is doing the rest, you know?

• 8:56Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's fascinating what you, you know, you allude to a bit of the journey of this film, which is unusual. You've obviously never made a film in quite this way before. You know, we, we talk about you as, as a world builder. You're truly one of those filmmakers that creates a world. And here you're, you're kind of handed a world. You're gonna have to reconstruct a world. And, you know, I know like Guillermo del Toro always says, like you find, the movie tells you what it is, right? You listen to the movie. And, and, and this, I think, is like the extreme example of that. Like you had to, you couldn't come in with a preconceived notion of what this concert or doc is going to be.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 9:27Josh Horowitz?

  Was that, was that, was that freeing for you as a filmmaker? Was it?

• 9:30Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. I mean, actually, I was with Guillermo del Toro last night in front of a crazy crowd. We were watching an IMAX and they were dancing and screaming and, and Guillermo sort of said something like, he's my brother. I mean, we are like brothers in film. And to your point, the answer is yes, yes, and yes. Because it's a bit like, I said to Guillermo, sort of in front of him, I says, look, it's a bit like having a baby, but not having to be pregnant, you know? Not having to, you know? Because I didn't have to shoot it. And I knew that my lead actor was 100% gonna deliver, you know? Right? So all I had to do, I mean, it's not nothing.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  All John and I had to do was, it was a lot of labor, but it was the most enjoyable thing I've ever made. Because when, and Guillermo and I were talking about this at dinner, when you're making a movie, you write it, then you get, there's the fight with the studio, but the number. And then there's shooting, and then there's casting. And did you get the casting right? And then there's, by the time you get to post, which is what this is. You're spiritually exhausted.

• 10:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  Whereas I began in post, you know, now. And that is Guillermo's right too. It was like when John O and I found this one forty minute tape of Elvis just speaking. The film spoke to us. It said, let El get out of the way. Let Elvis tell the story. Let it. Things about Elvis are always someone telling you about him.

• 11:09Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Let him tell his story. And that was the moment of, yeah, we're doing it like a dreamscape.

• 11:16Josh Horowitz?

  I think people will maybe not be surprised, but hardened to know that this does feel like a Baz Luhrmann film, despite kind of like, you know, you working within that context of like kind of receiving the material and molding it. I mean, for me, it shares with all your work, like whatever period you're working in, you make things feel so vital, so present, so in the moment. You know, whether it's, whether it's Gatsby or Shakespeare or whatever. And that's really this. This is like, you feel like you are seeing a vital performer in their prime, in the moment. And it's so refreshing as someone that grew up, you know, like, you know, you hear about fat Elvis and dying Elvis and Elvis at the end. And it's like, this is a guy at his most charming, so like so awkward and wonderful backstage,

• 12:00Josh Horowitz?

  so in in his element onstage. Um, it really brings him back to life. It must be, I mean, I can only imagine for me, if it makes me feel that way, for the diehard fans to see him like this. It must be something close to, yeah.

• 12:15Speaker 02

  Well, you know what? I tell you what, Josh, I'm not sure why, but I have a habit of doing what you're saying. But I always start with this point, which is when Fitzgerald wrote the book, The Great Gatsby, you know, and he put black street music in it. Everyone went, oh, my God, that's a fad jazz. And when Jay-Z and I went, no, no. It would have been like the most edgy. It's it's not nostalgia. I'm not interested in nostalgia. I'm interested in making it feel like there's what it was and then there's what it felt like.

• 12:52Josh Horowitz?

  Right, in the moment, at the time.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  What it felt like, yeah. And what did it feel like to be in the audience with Elvis? When he was making a show he thought he was gonna take on a world tour, which never happened. And look, I spoke to Clive Davis. Um, about, he was there at the opening night the year before. And he said, to this day, he's never been at an opening night quite like it. He said, it was just so, he said, Elvis actually did a cartwheel and they had to stop him doing that because they were scared he'd not break his neck. But, like, I think the energy that vibrates off the stage, the fact that no one knew what he was gonna do, the fact that he conducted the music with his body, you see him constructing the orchestrations. He didn't have a stylist, you know?

• 13:39Speaker 02

  He's a one-off. And you're right, he's both incredibly idiosyncratic, funny, goofy, cool, dramatic, spiritual. Like, one minute he's like being really silly and the next moment he's saying how great thou art. As if he's actually an acolyte connecting with God, you know?

• 14:01Josh Horowitz?

  We'll be right back with more Happy Say Confused.

• 14:07Speaker 00

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• 14:38Speaker 05

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• 15:10Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, you've worked with some of the greatest actors on the planet in your career.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, musicians, actually.

• 15:16Josh Horowitz?

  Of course. And, but I'm curious, like, what struck me in the film, among many other things, is how he did turn into this other person onstage, in front of a camera, in front of an audience. Have you experienced that with certain actors? So it's like, an actor jump out to you, like, the one person, when they're rehearsing, when we're talking, and whatever, and then when the camera turns on, something else happens?

• 15:39Speaker 02

  Yes, I mean, almost all the great ones are like that, you know? And it's interesting with musical icons, because, I mean, I could go into the actors, but pretty much all the really, you know, the Leonatos and the, and the Nikols. I mean, Nicole, but they are specifically transforming. But with musical icons, Bowie, who was someone I, was like an icon to me. And then, we worked together, and then towards the end of his life, we became friends. He lived near me. Um, and I loved him, and he would come around, and he was very wise and funny.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  But, he does this mime earlier in his life, when he's doing, working with Lindsey Kemp. And he goes, you know, forgive my bad accent, but he goes, "When you're a little tucker, you put on the mask." And, uh, people go, "Isn't it funny?" And then later, you put on the mask. He's doing, he's doing pure mime. And, and you get paid to do it. And then you put on the mask, and you're suddenly very famous. And then you put on the mask, and you're the world come up, and you put on the, and you put on the, and you put, and he chokes, because he can't get the mask off, and dies. And that happens to these iconic performers that are beyond.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Just performers, their actual culture. And there's only about two or three of them at that level. And the problem is that they become the avatars they create.

• 17:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  They become, like Elvis says at some point, I'm so tired of being Elvis Presley. Others, you know, I worked with Prince. And it was very hard, you know, it's like never broke character, it was always Prince. But the human being behind it gets lost. And in this film, Elvis says it, he's so articulate about it. He goes, it's very hard to live up to an image. There's the image and then there's the man. And we try to show the man in this film. We try to get to know the man. And the man is kind of really sweet and humble and has empathy and funny and, you know, but the image, so overwhelming.

• 17:59Josh Horowitz?

  But it also seems, my sense, again, I haven't seen nearly the footage you have, like in seeing him in the concert footage, it's like the audience needs him, but he needs them. And that's, that seems like-

• 18:09Speaker 02

  One thousand percent. What happens is, we can all criticize, but none of us, like as another famous person I know is a musician who's kind of recluse now, she said to me, we were talking about Elvis, she said, no person, no human being is built to be that famous. And as that fame becomes so great, things that are okay for us, like just go to Hawaii and rest, or fall in love with someone. What happens is, the only real love you can trust and feed off is that with the audience and the one, their fans, and that love that they give back to you. You really trust that because you know it's authentic.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  And everything else outside of that is kind of-

• 18:59Speaker 02

  It's just interesting that all of the ones, the three I think of, let's just say, all develop medical problems where they need a lot of prescription drugs to numb themselves.

• 19:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  That's all I'd say about that.

• 19:11Josh Horowitz?

  I, I saw, you mentioned you did a Q and A with Guillermo. I also saw Austin came out, Austin Butler came out to your premiere the other day. What did he, uh, what did he have to say before, during, or after about? I mean, he's seen so much footage himself.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  Well, he, we, we are crazy because we were running around and we're dear friends, but we actually met on the carpet. So we weren't doing, you know, photo-ready hugs. It was real. And I love him, love him so much. And he saw it and he was just godsmacked. I mean, it's a complicated thing for him because I've had people come and say, gee, Elvis did such a good Austin Butler, you know, some of the young ones. I go, no, no, it's the other way around. But, um, we talked about some of the things that we, like, you know, that super eight where we'd heard about Elvis dancing like he had a sort of an electric eel in him. And Austin, Austin just obsessively watched every frame

• 20:10Speaker 02

  that was available of Elvis. But some of that stuff just wasn't available. And you know, he was a bit like, oh, I should have done that one. But I think it's a testament to Austin, just how many people come out and say, oh, my God. You know, like, sometimes they thought of watching Austin, you know?

• 20:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right. It, it, it's been obviously a few years now. You obviously made the right choice, but like, the lore is, as you well know, Harry Styles and I believe Miles Teller were pretty close to landing the Elvis role. Was, were either of them very close to being your Elvis in the end?

• 20:44Speaker 02

  The, I workshop, like, when I was looking for my Jeanne Darque, I, I know what having been as a young actor and having a theater company at the same time and being at Nida and auditioning people. I don't like auditions. I like to workshop. And both of them brought so much. It was such a privilege to have them work on the material for an hour or so, or sometimes three hours. So I never go, you're right or wrong. I go, my job is to help you get this, but more importantly, let's forget result. What can we learn about this material? What can we learn? And I learned quite a bit from both of them, actually. Um, but it doesn't work like a horse race. It was just in the case of Austin.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  He brought in kind of a full package. You know, the thing with Austin was he he was sitting right in the pocket of being able to play. There's so many reasons.

• 21:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  That he just, and it's kind of funny. I don't go like, okay, it is you, number three, step forward. It just sort of evolves. And you just find yourself actually continuing to rehearse with that person.

• 21:50Josh Horowitz?

  It's it's such a privilege, I would imagine, to be like in your position where, you know, in the case of something like Elvis, it's like your name and Elvis's name make that movie because and similarly, I, you know, I want to talk a little bit about Joan of Arc, which you're about to embark on. And you've cast a relative unknown in that where there's, I would imagine in normal circumstances, you're casting an Elvis movie, the studio will be breathing down your neck and being like, Harry Styles is right there. Please, for the love of God, take him back. Did you not feel that pressure from the studio?

• 22:17Speaker 02

  I think Harry's, Harry's got real chops as an actor, I can tell you. Can't wait for the new album. Think the new song's great. And I would be thrilled to make something with Harry. But when it comes to my movies, no, I, well, no, I have to, I mean, I make movies in a way, I try and tell them the way I would tell you a story at a dinner party. With a lot, a lot of me waving my hands about and a bit sort of jumping all over the place.

• 22:49Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  Maybe a bit of color and movement. But the point being

• 22:53Speaker 02

  that I have a, I'm in a sort of unique position in that I've made, not unique, but I've made only a few films. They've all made their money back and pretty much every single one of them, people would go, oh, Shakespeare, really? Is that gonna do okay? Or Gatsby? Who cares about a hundred year old book or Elvis? You mean the Halloween costume guy?

• 23:15Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 23:16Speaker 02

  So my old mission for that moment, I just decided to do them because I think the audience will need that. It'll be useful. And I just give myself completely to it. And I don't really have that, like.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  I think generally speaking with studios, they just go, hmm, he's got this thing. I mean, I mean, with Austin, we made him famous before the film opened. You know, we made him, his star rose before we even opened through. I mean, I was the oldest guy on TikTok, I think, at the time. But I'll do whatever I need to do to, to, you know, get audiences in because I can't rely on the normal channels.

• 24:02Josh Horowitz?

  I do, I do, I do admire your Instagram game. I was hoping in person for you to show me your, your, your action move for Instagram because I'm obsessed.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  And I'll do it at the end, if you like. I'll do it at the end, you can button on the beginning.

• 24:17Josh Horowitz?

  Perfect.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  That is in fact, that is in fact, on the set, how I call action.

• 24:23Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna ask.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  Settle.

• 24:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:26Speaker 02

  And we're breathing. See, the and is very important because the and is when everyone breathes in. And action, but I have to really feel when there's, everyone's locked in and settled. Like I coach everyone to sort of breathe the same moment. So we all hit it. It's a bit like music, a bit like conducting.

• 24:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you have to get them into that, that flow state moment.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  You just have to get everyone ready to go the same moment. It helps the scene.

• 24:57Josh Horowitz?

  Your name comes up a lot on this podcast and it's always good, trust me. Actors, it just in recent, in recent weeks, I mean, Kate Hudson, Amanda Seyfried. And, and these, these are actors who have screen tested for you that didn't even get the roles and yet still put you on such a pedestal, not only for your films, but, but going through the process. So I'm, I'm curious, like, you know, you alluded to this a little bit and we've talked before about your, your screen tests, the workshop that you do.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're kind of workshops is what I call them, yeah.

• 25:27Josh Horowitz?

  But I, I, I'm curious, like, how you even arrived at that process? Was that, did that start with Romeo and Juliet or even strictly ballroom?

• 25:34Speaker 02

  Oh, no, I, I, it began because I, I've always done this and I had my own process even as a kid, but then I had a theater company, an opera company, and I was in, in movies. I also knew what it was to, I used to audition for, I auditioned for NIDA, which is the National Institute, and I never got in. And eventually they just kind of let me in because I became so successful. I was terrible at auditioning because I was always. I think I was trying to direct myself. I was trying not to direct myself. I was trying to please someone. And so I realized that I see it as a privilege if someone comes into my room. And I see it as my job to get them the job. Even if everyone around me is rolling their eyeballs going on, that'll never be right.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  I don't care because they're coming in. That actor is coming in and I'm going to learn something about the scene just by working with them. So I tried to get us to forget about a result and say, okay, what can we find? Let's just rehearse like we're making a movie. What will we do and what will we discover? And how, you know, and for that it becomes enjoyable for both of us. And I give my all to it and so do they and, you know.

• 26:49Josh Horowitz?

  More Happy Say Confused coming up.

• 26:55Speaker 00

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• 27:58Josh Horowitz?

  Another person that brought you up very recently, I had Emerald Fennell on the show, who just directed Wuthering Heights, and she is not shy about saying she is, you know, a student at the precipice of your work. Have you seen Wuthering Heights?

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have, because I interviewed her for Interview Magazine, and I got to see it early, and of course Jacob is a local, you know, to be honest, you know, so the two leads are like, local kids from where I come, you know, and Margot is a local too. But, yeah, I really enjoyed, I loved it. I mean, I just, to me, there's a lot of discourse about it, right? I told Emerald, I was a bit like, oh, I'll keep out of the PR thing, I've got, you know, Jacob and Margot, they'll do all that. I said, I think they're gonna

• 28:54Speaker 02

  be drawn into it, because the thing about it is, with Adaption, what she's doing, and I mean this in the best possible way, it's like a great pop album, like Charlie's music is fantastic, I know Charlie, I think she's done an amazing job, but don't we love it? When summer comes and a great album is dropped, and we know all summer long, like Brat Summer, or whatever your music taste is, that the one by Rosalia, amazing, right? Don't we love it? We go, oh God, we got that, it's gonna make it all summer long, we've got something, you know, or whatever the period. And I think with what Emerald's done with

• 29:34Speaker 02

  Wuthering Heights is, she's treated it, because when these books were written, I mean, when Gatsby was written, he wasn't trying, he was trying to write it brilliantly and do his best, and great, and he was a great devotee of cinema, but he was a young, kind of rockstar, like it's pop, you know, he was writing something he wanted to be pop, meaning popular.

• 29:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  And Emerald's just coming at it from an audience's point of view and going, popular. She is... And I've been through this myself.

• 30:06Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna say.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  You have to choose.

• 30:08Josh Horowitz?

  Like Romeo and Juliet, were the Shakespeare purists happy with your Romeo and Juliet at the time?

• 30:13Speaker 02

  I had, I had critics going, one critic, it was, you know, the ones that had two thumbs up. I think the thumbs, one thumb guy gave it a thumbs up. And one was like thumbs down, one said it was the horriest film you've ever seen, and one was great. And they used to call it the MTV Romeo and Juliet, which is funny because I'd never made anything for MTV. But everything in it was actually based on a very deep, just deep, uh, study of Shakespeare. And saying, well, he used to use pop music and put it in his movies, you know? But nonetheless, these things were not nostalgic. And I knew, I know, when I went about putting, Jay-Z and I did the music for, um, Gatsby.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  I, you know, Fitzgerald put black street music in his novella called Jazz and everything. It's why are you doing that? It's a fad.

• 31:07Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Well, we think, well, jazz is lovely, but it's kind of nostalgic, right? How do we make it seem like now? And that is the mission and that what she's, but, but like I knew I'd have the ire of. Some acad, it's weird because some academics absolutely consider Romeo and Juliet to be one of the best. I, the Royal Shakespeare Company, they voted it the second most important Shakespeare film of all time. You know, the first one being Chimes at Midnight, which I happen to think is a work of genius by Wells, you know? So you just have to accept you're gonna be upsetting people. But if you're not upsetting pundits and critics and academics, right?

• 31:48Speaker 02

  I mean, the word academic pretty much sums it up, you know? Then because Shakespeare upset the academics of his time. I mean, they, they just thought he was a pop nobody that no one would remember, you know? So you have to sign up for that and she has signed up for that.

• 32:07Josh Horowitz?

  Did you ever consider doing another adaptation of Shakespeare back in the day?

• 32:12Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I want to. I mean, I always thought I'll do like the primaries in the canon because I'm a Shakespeare nut, you know? I thought at a certain age I should do Hamlet, and then I probably would do a Macbeth because that's about absolute power corrupting absolutely. And then Lear, because they basically can track your life in those four or five primary pieces. Plus, I love Henry the Fourth, but although doing Jeanne Darck and researching it so deeply, I now have a very different point of view about Henry the Fifth. I mean, Shakespeare wrote him up as if he was quite the hero. Not sure about that from the French point of view.

• 32:53Josh Horowitz?

  Sure. It is so striking to look at your career, the six films prior to this, and like you are your own brand. I'm sure franchises maybe came calling at various points, maybe they still do, maybe they still don't.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  From day one, yeah. I very stupidly said no to a couple of extraordinarily, the first versions of a couple extraordinarily super iconic many, and I would be a very wealthy person, so I was pretty silly.

• 33:25Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, you can't just drop that, Baz. What are we, are we talking superhero? Because there was a rumor way back when that Batman was in the mix. Did they ever come to you with Batman?

• 33:32Speaker 02

  Oh, Batman. I mean, definitely Spider-Man, but like Harry Potter, you know, like the very first. I think Stephen was the first one, and then they came to me and I said, look, sounds amazing, but I want to redo the musical.

• 33:50Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  And, you know.

• 33:51Josh Horowitz?

  This was after Moulin.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  And I probably would have ruined them because the filmmakers that make that, you know, the authorship of that, the brand in that is actually, you know.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  J K Rowling, you know, and everyone else does a beautiful interpretation. But and you don't. But my brand is about taking stuff that people think is cheesy or forgotten, or even new works, but primary stuff. And for some organic reason, I might need to prove it to be relevant and new and fresh and of the moment. I'm not quite sure why, but it is a brand.

• 34:32Josh Horowitz?

  Did you say Spider-Man was a real conversation at one point or?

• 34:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did. It comes up in a very sweet way, you know.

• 34:40Josh Horowitz?

  How's that?

• 34:43Speaker 02

  Oh, I think I might have asked Amy I needed some help on something. She was, no, I'm not gonna. La la, you know, but that, uh, way back in the day, I'll tell you what, way back in the day, I was a huge fan of Silver Surfer.

• 34:56Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, sure.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  And way back in the day, that was before, before, uh, I'm not sure if that's T C or.

• 35:02Josh Horowitz?

  It's Marvel, so.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  I think it's Marvel, yeah.

• 35:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was, there was, um, this all become a lot of clickbait, but way back in the day, um, um, I just thought, oh, I love Silver Surfer so much. Before Marvel was so big, you know, this is really early.

• 35:19Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  And the guy who owned Marvel sent me all those Silver Surfer to toys and books. And I went like, hmm, philosophical surfer in space, you know. But alas, no, I did Romeo and Juliet instead.

• 35:34Josh Horowitz?

  It worked out for everybody. It, it, time has no meaning when we're talking about anniversaries. So it's the 30th of Romeo and Juliet. It's the 20th, 25th of Moulin, which also, also makes me feel old. I did a 10th anniversary retrospective with you 15 years ago, so I don't know how we're still.

• 35:51Speaker 02

  How about that?

• 35:52Josh Horowitz?

  That's insanity.

• 35:53Speaker 02

  Exactly. Watch out for the strictly Borum 40th or something.

• 35:57Josh Horowitz?

  There you go, there you go. Um, we've talked about some of the famous, I mean, so many great actors, uh, you talked to for that one. Did Leonardo, was he in the conversation? You'd obviously already worked with him. Did he read for or sing for you for, for Moulin Rouge?

• 36:14Speaker 02

  Oh, um, I'm trying to remember whether.

• 36:21Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm trying to... Yes, he did.

• 36:25Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna say.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  And, and he sang really well, and he sang really well. He always says, "Oh, I couldn't sing." And I said, "No, you sang really well." Um, he was involved at the time in, um, WeWorkshops.

• 36:40Josh Horowitz?

  So somewhere in the Baz Luhrmann vaults, there is footage of...

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Hmm, yeah, there's some, in the Baz Luhrmann vaults, there's footage of everything. There's so much, you know, those vaults need to be only open a hundred years after my death. But there's some beautiful things. I mean, Heath Ledger was actually really extraordinary, and he and Nicole were extraordinary together. He was just a bit young. He was just, it became another thing, you know? But the footage of Heath and Nicole is really beautiful, and we often talk about that because of great sadness at losing him, you know?

• 37:19Josh Horowitz?

  I know enough about you to know that it's about as much the journey as it is kind of the destination. You love the adventure of making these films. It's part of probably one of the joys of extending this Elvis journey a bit. Um, are you, I guess you're kind of at an interesting point where you're about to say goodbye to Elvis and you're massively in the world of Joan of Arc. Like, where are you at headwise right now?

• 37:41Speaker 02

  I, I've done a lot on Jean. Um, actually, we've got a few little things, like, Si and I made a little beautiful train carriage, a dining carriage for Belmont. And we do these kind of, I do these different adventures, like, some, some of my own, and some, Siem has her own homewares and does all of that kind of thing. But it's time, very soon, to be honest, I've had to draw a few lines and say, "Now it is time to go inside the world of Jean." So, a little more on, a little more on epic, a week or two, then some, then some debriefing and moving out some other things, and then it's 100% Jean time.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  Second half of the year, I go inside the world of Jean.

• 38:30Josh Horowitz?

  Do you know your musical approach to that soundscape yet? Because it's obviously gonna be interesting if it's a Baz Ohrman film.

• 38:37Speaker 02

  I have begun a philosophy on it. Not too early to talk. Whenever you say things, I always need you to say them as if they're now a part of the story. But I have a philosophy. Thoughts are floating, but nothing is random. It comes from a very deep process. I am, for all the apparent chaos, I'm a serial researcher, very process-driven, and a serial collaborator. And I love other creatives, and I love collaborating with them.

• 39:18Josh Horowitz?

  One last question on that next project, if you'll indulge me. This is another one that you've been flirting with for a long while. What's brought you to this project? What's kept you on this project for so long? In a nutshell, what's your obsession with that?

• 39:30Speaker 02

  You mean Jean?

• 39:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  Jean? Yeah, look, early on, I only ever abandoned one show. I was very deeply involved in Alexander the Great with the legendary Dino de Laurentis.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  And then Steven Spielberg and I were working on Napoleon. So there were the two. I was gonna, I just wanted to do a big epic, and I was fascinated historically by those characters. But all the way through it, I'd always drive, you know, we live in Paris a lot, and I'd drive past that golden statue of Jeanne in Place Vendante. And I used to look up at it and go like, yeah, she's probably the one, but oh my gosh. You know, a seventeen-year-old girl and all those soldiers and horses, that'll kill you, you know? Be careful. And then, with what's happened in the world recently, the way the world has moved.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  I realized that a story in a world where I'm working with this wonderful young writer in England, this woman who's so cool, Ava Pickett. And we were writing and she came up with this line where Jean says, we've got to this poor king, he's a kid really, he's only 25. We've got to peel this world out from the nobbly old fingers of these men. And I just thought the world we're in needs a 17-year-old to come out of some small country town and lead the new generation to believing that they can reclaim their world and put

• 41:15Speaker 02

  an end to this echo chamber that belongs to the nobbly old hands of the last century. So I thought that this, you know, I don't really make the things I want to make. The things I want to make, I mean, it's so much more fun just to direct, I don't know, James Bond or something, you know? But, well, I mean, Bond takes a lot too, I don't want to dismiss the work on that. But I make what I think is needed and I think the story of Jeanne Dack in two years' time will be deeply needed.

• 41:51Josh Horowitz?

  That makes perfect sense. Backtracking as we wrap up here, you know, we talked a little bit about the amazing, you know, with the help of Peter Jackson's company, kind of figuring out how to kind of reclaim all this footage and make it look so vibrant and as great as it does.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  Oh, by the way, I've got to shout out to Peter and his people are just so divine and they do it with love. I mean, they do it with, oh, it's like being in a theater company. I was so happy to go down to New Zealand and hang with them.

• 42:17Josh Horowitz?

  Are all your films properly preserved? Do any necessitate going back and any kind of sprucing up, any kind of refurbishment, any kind of high-end kind of reevaluation?

• 42:30Speaker 02

  I'm sure that can happen. I mean, funnily enough, all the things, like all my props and stuff are kept by the National between two museums in Australia. And actually, they work on the collection, they have people working on it all the time because, you know, there are crazy notebooks of my scrawls and my terrible sketches and collages that I give to CM and say, hey, make that brilliant. But, um, um...

• 42:58Speaker 02

  I don't think about the films. They're like, they're like, I just remember the time I made Romeo and Juliet, the time I did Moulin Rouge, but I don't like watch them again, you know? Unless I have to go, go to a retrospective and I see, which I just did because of Romeo and Juliet, so the last 15 of it. I didn't even think I saw that, but um, uh, I just nostalgic. I always like to move on. So, but I guess someone will want to preserve them at some point, maybe.

• 43:28Josh Horowitz?

  They should be. Uh, no, they hold up. They are all perfect little gems. And this is another one. Add to the collection. Um, congratulations on this. I'll, I'll, I'll say again, if folks have the opportunity to see this in IMAX, I can attest to that being a really singular special experience, but regardless, seen in a theater, if you can, because um, this brings Elvis to life in a way that probably most, if not all, ever thought possible. So, um.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  Well, Josh, you know what? We're going to face it going wide this weekend. So to, to the EP core. And we also have the EP hardcore. Try and drag someone in. Why I think is a great experiment. Drag someone in who goes, I just don't give a brat's ass about Elvis. Cause I think I'm seeing enough people going now, like actual heavy critic folk going like, I went in going, and then come out and going, who is that guy? I love him. So that's a great fun thing to achieve and we need, we need a broad audience. And I, I made a piece of theater. And, you know, people to go out today into the cinema, they need to go into a theatrical experience.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  And I hope it feels like you're in the concert and on the tour that Elvis never had. Yeah.

• 44:40Josh Horowitz?

  Mission accomplished. Uh, it's always good to catch up next time in person. Thank you, Baz.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Well, Josh, I can do one thing for you. Ready? Standing by. And I don't know where the camera is, but action.

• 44:52Josh Horowitz?

  There it is. Mission accomplished. Thank you, sir. Safe travels. Have a good one.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  Always cool. Take care.

• 44:57Josh Horowitz?

  Appreciate it.

• 45:00Speaker 06

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 45:18Speaker 07

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

• 46:02Speaker 07

  It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.