Christopher Abbott

Christopher Abbott finally joins the podcast! Josh and Christopher sit down to chat about his new limited series EAST OF EDEN, why his time on GIRLS almost made him quit acting, how he landed the role of Charles Xavier in the upcoming X-MEN film, and how even he doesn’t understand what was going on in KRAVEN THE HUNTER. Plus, Christopher shares his reaction to losing a Tony Award, how a GAME OF THRONES fan mistook him for Kit Harington, and more! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 10/14 – Olivia Colman & Alexander Skarsgard – Tickets here: ⁠https://www.92ny.org/event/wicker⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:50Josh Horowitz?

  Will X-Men be better than Kraven the Hunter? Can you guarantee me that?

• 0:53Speaker 02

  I will guarantee you that. At least me, at least for my own, you know what I mean? From, yeah.

• 1:00Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 1:07Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, Christopher Abbott is here. He is starring in East of Eden and he has just been cast in the next X-Men film as Professor X. There's lots to discuss in this one. Remember guys, if you enjoy what I do, check out our Patreon. Patreon.com/happysadconfused. Early access to every single episode of the podcast. You can ask questions of our guests. You can get access to our live events. All that and more on our Patreon. Check it out. If you like what I do, support us over there. Okay, let's talk about the main event. Christopher Abbott's been on the list for a while. He was Tony nominated this past year for his role in Death of a Salesman. He's been killing it in independent film like James White.

• 1:49Josh Horowitz?

  He of course, really came to the fore, I think, in Girls about a decade ago. And especially in recent years though, it's really just cemented his role as kind of a character actor, leading man. He can bounce between independent film and blockbusters. And he's really at an interesting point in his life and career right now. And I'm so thrilled we got him at this precise moment. Because East of Eden is an epic, giant telling of the classic John Stonbeck novel. He's fantastic in it. But also to get him right when he's just had a kid. He's just been cast in X-Men. Tons to talk about. And a guy that I feel like seeing in other interviews maybe projects a serious vibe. And while there is that in this conversation, also kind of a goofball, very funny in this conversation. So I think you'll see a different side of Christopher Abbott here.

• 2:33Josh Horowitz?

  And I'm so thrilled he chose to reveal it on Happy Sad Confused today. So without any further ado, here it is. Me and Christopher Abbott. Enjoy. It's been a long time coming. Christopher Abbott, you're unhappy sad confused.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I am finally here.

• 2:48Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you for doing this, man.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  You don't, you don't see my eye twitching, do you?

• 2:51Josh Horowitz?

  See that your whole body is just vibrating.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:53Josh Horowitz?

  Are you nervous? You shouldn't be.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  No, not, I'm not nervous. No, no, I feel great. I'm not nervous at all. I've just, it's just been like, it's just been lack of sleep.

• 3:01Josh Horowitz?

  You have a lot going on, man.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, so don't zoom in on my left eye.

• 3:05Josh Horowitz?

  Zoom in. I have bad news for you.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  What's up?

• 3:08Josh Horowitz?

  You, you might be peaking. This is peak Christopher Abbott this year. Let's, let's take.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Is it downhill, you're saying?

• 3:13Josh Horowitz?

  I'm not saying that.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  I, that's how I feel anyway about, it's always gonna be downhill. Yeah, yeah.

• 3:18Josh Horowitz?

  Let's take stock for a second.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  I don't like when things go well.

• 3:21Josh Horowitz?

  Then you must be miserable right now.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:23Josh Horowitz?

  Because you turned the big four row. Congratulations.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  That's right, that too.

• 3:27Josh Horowitz?

  You got nominated for a Tony.

• 3:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:29Josh Horowitz?

  You became a dad.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:31Josh Horowitz?

  You're Professor X.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:33Josh Horowitz?

  And the Knicks won a championship.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  I know, when you, when you really reflect on it like that.

• 3:39Josh Horowitz?

  How would you rank those accomplishments of the?

• 3:41Speaker 02

  Oh boy. I gotta put dad first.

• 3:45Josh Horowitz?

  You better.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  Then Knicks.

• 3:47Josh Horowitz?

  Obviously.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  Just because I've been waiting, you know, I've been a Knicks fan my whole life.

• 3:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  You know, so I've been waiting for that the longest. Cause I didn't want to be necessarily be an actor when I was a kid. So I can't say I've been waiting to get nominated for a Tony.

• 4:00Josh Horowitz?

  Did you want to be a basketball player?

• 4:01Speaker 02

  And my cynical nature goes, I didn't win.

• 4:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  So, you know, can't, can't really celebrate that too hard, can you?

• 4:07Josh Horowitz?

  Did you have the speech ready?

• 4:08Speaker 02

  I don't need to hold this, right?

• 4:10Josh Horowitz?

  No, but if you, it feels like it's your security blanket.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  Speaking of, I feel like I'm doing like an OG Ananobi thing.

• 4:14Josh Horowitz?

  No, you're the, you're the Talladega Nights guy that doesn't know how to.

• 4:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I feel like it's gonna float away. I don't know.

• 4:20Josh Horowitz?

  It's there for you.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  All right, it's there. I'm not gonna touch it.

• 4:22Josh Horowitz?

  Did you have a Tony award speech ready? Were you superstitious just in case?

• 4:27Speaker 02

  I had, I had not, not written, but I had a sort of points I was gonna hit. It wasn't gonna be that long, you know?

• 4:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  But it was funny, like I had never been, I mean, I've been like nominated for things before, but I had this feeling where, um, I was like, right before it happened, you know, you get that sixth sense where you're like, oh, I'm gonna win.

• 4:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right, right.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  And then I got really anxious and nervous. And then I didn't. And then it was this weird relief and adrenaline dump. Cause I, I immediately got a headache.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  I got, I immediately got a headache, was exhausted, and I, and I, and I had to poop. That's like, so after I didn't win, that was the, those are the three feelings I had. And I wanted, and then I wanted to leave. It was just an adrenaline dump.

• 5:12Josh Horowitz?

  So the famous post-Tony poop that people always talk about, like as soon as you lose, you have a good poop.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  It's a secret, yeah. Yeah, in a, in a tux. Just poop your pants.

• 5:22Josh Horowitz?

  For the record, he came in talking poop and we're still talking poop.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  I farted.

• 5:26Josh Horowitz?

  Just now or at the Tony's?

• 5:27Speaker 02

  No, no, right after. That's what, that's what happened. I saved it, but I got a headache and I farted when I didn't win. That's what happened.

• 5:34Josh Horowitz?

  Is this, is this Christopher's brain on having a toddler? Of having a little, a little kid around the house?

• 5:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm tired all the time.

• 5:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, but no, this is kind of how, I'm, I'm relaxed and I'm comfortable. So this is, this is what you, you get from me.

• 5:46Josh Horowitz?

  Was the, this is perfect.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  It was all you get.

• 5:48Josh Horowitz?

  Was the, um, I don't need any thoughtfulness. I want, I want poop talk. Was, was turning, was your 30th year as momentous as your 40th year? Do you remember what your life was like?

• 5:57Speaker 02

  No, I don't remember.

• 5:58Josh Horowitz?

  Doing the math.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  My recall is also terrible. So this is gonna go great. Yeah.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  You know, we shot East of Eden, just to jump ahead. We shot East of Eden two years ago.

• 6:08Josh Horowitz?

  Oh no.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  I, I, there's, it's all, it's all a wash.

• 6:11Josh Horowitz?

  All you need to know is it's very funny. It's the, it's, stay for the blooper reel.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  I think it's hilarious.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  No, but I, but my, you know, I remember, obviously remember my 40th cause that was more recent. Uh, I don't remember what, what I did on my 30th birthday. But yeah, so it's, it was, it was really, I had a surprise party.

• 6:29Josh Horowitz?

  Just now for the?

• 6:30Speaker 02

  For my 40th, which was really, I never had that. And like, cause I don't want it. And most of my friends know I don't, I don't want it.

• 6:36Josh Horowitz?

  How did you react?

• 6:37Speaker 02

  It was beautiful. It was really sweet because I mean, you, you, you know, you forget that people like you and they show up.

• 6:46Josh Horowitz?

  You forget?

• 6:47Speaker 02

  Well, I think it's human nature, you know what I mean? People get so sort of busy and caught up with, with their lives. And it's not, and I know my friends love me, but it was, it's just, it's a weird thing to sort of see them all in one room. You feel like, you know, again, my, my brain goes cynical and dark. So you almost feel like it's a, I almost felt like it was like a funeral. You know, it was really, it was like.

• 7:08Josh Horowitz?

  Is there something I should know, guys?

• 7:09Speaker 02

  It was a living funeral, you know what I mean? Cause you're like, all these people that, you know, like, you're like, oh my God. You know, but they're just in a restaurant. So.

• 7:16Josh Horowitz?

  It is interesting, cause you've had all these occasions this year to be kind of like forced reflection on somebody that like.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:22Josh Horowitz?

  You know, like turning a big age.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Midlife crisis.

• 7:26Josh Horowitz?

  All these midlife things, like having the kid, the Tony. All these things are like occasions to be like, oh, like where am I in my personal and professional life?

• 7:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:33Josh Horowitz?

  And it sounds like your, your, your brain can be your worst enemy, like just like spiraling a little bit on, on that kind of stuff? Or are you?

• 7:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, but my brain, my brain can sort of spiral on more big picture stuff. You know, I mean, uh, I know we're joking around about the Tony thing before, but you know, I think by now, at least in my work, I sort of worked long enough and feel like I've been around and, um, have met and kept really good friends within the business. So I feel sort of comfortable with work in terms of like, I, it comes and it goes. It's, you know, even the highs, like I, the highs are gonna dip down eventually. Then you'll, you know, so I'm, I've gotten more comfortable with that.

• 8:13Josh Horowitz?

  You got the rhythms, now you know it's.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  But you know, the, having a kid, uh, 40, getting older, like the bigger existential things sort of are, are weigh, weigh a little bit more.

• 8:22Josh Horowitz?

  Do you feel like from a career perspective, you're, are you as ambitious now as you were at, at 20 or 30? Like what, what do, what does ambition look like for you now?

• 8:32Speaker 02

  It's, it's not more, it's, it's different.

• 8:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? It's different. I feel, um, you know, when I, when I started out in New York and in mostly in theater, you know, that, I, reflecting on it, I, I thank God for my naivete at the time. You know, and also the landscape is completely different now. You know, even just like auditioning or like sort of pounding the pavement like I did back then of like go, show, just showing up to auditions I wasn't asked to be at or, you know, so that's even different. So, um, I had, because of my naive nature at the time, I had a lot of ambition because I didn't know, uh, you know, I, if I knew then what I knew now, I probably would've gave up sooner.

• 9:21Josh Horowitz?

  Right, didn't realize how the odds were so stacked against you.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  At the time, I felt like any day, I'm like, any day I'm gonna make it. You know what I mean? Like just one audition, that's all it takes. You know what I mean? Just one good audition. But now, you know, so it's, but I think that gave me something.

• 9:35Josh Horowitz?

  It was about doing the math, 20 years ago, when you moved here to the city, right?

• 9:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, 2006 I moved here.

• 9:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So you, you grew up in Connecticut, you move here.

• 9:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:45Josh Horowitz?

  And you're immediately, is it theater auditions immediately? Are you going up for TVs and commercial stuff or not really?

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I grew up in Connecticut. I was going to community college at the time.

• 9:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  I didn't grow up rich. I always feel like that's still a chip on my shoulder. Cause people, I think people assume.

• 9:59Josh Horowitz?

  Connecticut, this guy, silver spoon.

• 10:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I wasn't dirt poor, obviously, but, but you know, I, I just felt like I needed to sit. But I was going to community college.

• 10:08Josh Horowitz?

  Do you think this is a therapy session? I mean, it kind of is.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  It feels like one. I mean, that's what podcasts are basically, right? I mean, they've become, you know.

• 10:16Josh Horowitz?

  It's just a cheaper way to do it.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. It is much cheaper. I was going to community college. I took a, my first like class in community college in Connecticut. And that's where I sort of learned that, um, oh, like, I like, A, I like this. And B, I think I'm pretty good.

• 10:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  It was a little bit big fish, small pond scenario. But then quickly went to HB Studio in New York, which is this little, like you can take as many classes as you want, and which was good, and it was cheap, which is part of the reason why I went. But it was also a really great school. I had great teachers. And then, yeah, I mean, just hustling around, like I was starting to, you know, I would audition for plays. I remember I auditioned for, um, a play, Spanish Fly, which is a classic play, but it was in the back of a bar in Queens. And they were like, it was so, thinking back on it now, it was, it's just been, yeah, it's been a wild, it's been a very long wild ride.

• 11:08Josh Horowitz?

  Did you have kind of a crew of actors you kind of came of age with, you feel like?

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, like, um, so, you know, I'll say like Mona Fastfold, who's a director who I've worked with now multiple times. She was one of my first friends. I met her in school. She was acting at the time.

• 11:25Josh Horowitz?

  So you knew her before Brady?

• 11:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like did a, I'm, yeah, I knew her before Brady. Um, she was one of my first friends in school. My friend, Michael Epp, he's an actor, he's in Germany, but, um, so those are my first Mona, like, you know, and that's sort of a beautiful, long story, because Mona's obviously stopped acting, but she's gone on to have like a great, uh, directing career. That's why we work together all the time.

• 11:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  Um, and then over the years, yeah, you know, it's like when I, you know, I met like, it's tons of people. Sam Rockwell, I did, we did Williamstown with, and he's become, stayed and remained a good friend. Yeah, it's just, it's just sort of, you pick up people along the way. Lucy Thurber's a playwright. She was like one of the first people that, um, sort of gave me any opportunity, you know, like just do a reading of a play. Yeah, so just thinking it's, it's thinking back on it now. It's just so many, so many chapters.

• 12:17Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's the fun thing that you were saying about your 40th is like, you kind of like realize only when you kind of collect all these people, you meet them at different points in your life and career and.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel like New York, I feel like, I'm sure, I know you're able to do that in other cities, but there's, there's a special quality to it here.

• 12:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  And may, maybe because of theater, you know, or just, you just run into people easier. I don't know.

• 12:39Josh Horowitz?

  Did you ever have to want to do the LA thing or no?

• 12:43Speaker 02

  I didn't have to. I didn't feel like I had to. Um, I've done it in, in, you know, in an old school way. Like I would go out there for like pilot, you know, seasons and stuff like that. And that was, I, I preferred, I did it here too. I preferred it here. I didn't like driving around and it was just too, it was just too much. So no, I never, I like LA, I like visiting and I have friends there, but I never wanted to live there.

• 13:13Speaker 04

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• 13:42Speaker 05

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• 14:26Speaker 05

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• 14:43Josh Horowitz?

  So you were kind of, I mean, it's safe to say you've, when you look at your own ambitions as an actor, kind of a late bloomer, like you didn't really even contemplate acting until you're close to 20.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  I think comparatively to other actors, a little, a little later. Yeah, like 20, 20 years old. Yeah, 19, 20.

• 15:00Josh Horowitz?

  Were you consuming like film and theater and TV like any other kid or in a, in a more aggressive way?

• 15:06Speaker 02

  Movies, I was consuming a lot.

• 15:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  You know, all growing. I watched movies all the time. You know, I watched movies. My mom, my, my parents, my uncle took me to movies all the time. That was a thing we did. And then when I was, um, one of my first jobs while I was in high school, I worked at a video store, which is, uh, you know, moot and or obsolete now.

• 15:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  Um, but I mean, I would just, I would watch movies at work and I would bring movies home. And we were, there was two, uh, video stores in our town. There was Video Hut, it was called, and there was a Blockbuster. And, and we had like, um, we were the smaller sort of family run, not my family, but a family run business. And, you know, we had a pretty good like foreign film section.

• 15:46Josh Horowitz?

  This is Video Hut, obviously.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, comparing it to Blockbuster, which had, you know, so I sort of got a good education because I, we had more, more obscure things to.

• 15:58Josh Horowitz?

  Cause I've heard you talk about like Cassavetes being kind of like a big influence of those films. But I mean, I would imagine like no 12 year old is like watching Cassavetes. Maybe that comes a little bit into your teenage years. Like, were you kind of combining highbrow, lowbrow? Were you watching all of like the big blockbuster stuff as well as?

• 16:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because my, my taste has sort of, um, it can sound almost pretentious sometimes, but, uh, but then the movies I reference as my favorites have often been like, uh, well, they're still good movies, but not, you know, I reference Mrs. Doubtfire all the time as one of my favorites. But, uh, but, you know, and it feels like a joke, but it's such a good script and it's such a, it's like one of the best movies about divorce.

• 16:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Then talk about accretive performance.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  It's so good and so, and it still gets me.

• 16:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  Like when I, I watched it, I rewatched it, you know, I, I watched movies before to fall asleep often. And I was doing press in London and I was trying to, I was trying to fall asleep and I just put on Mrs. Doubtfire. But it's, and it still gets me. It really does.

• 16:59Josh Horowitz?

  The drive by fruiting, the run by fruiting, what's the, what's the line?

• 17:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, it's in the accent. Uh, yeah, when, when she throws, when, uh, throws the lime at his head. But that's the, what a great, you know, watching that movie as a kid and then, um, and loving it for the whatever comedy and, and moments then. And now you, it's all the little asides that Robin, that I'm picking up as an, you know, that are the funniest things to me.

• 17:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  It's the little asides that he does in that that are really good.

• 17:28Josh Horowitz?

  It's funny because I do think, I mean, I don't know how, where you are of like your place in the universe or what people perceive of you. I think you're perceived as a serious, a very serious dude. Do you think that's?

• 17:38Speaker 02

  I think that's fair. I mean, just because of like the work I do and I'm, and I'm not, I'm not a, uh, you know, I'm not really on social media or anything, so I don't, um, I don't put myself out there that much. But I think, you know, it's sort of on purpose.

• 17:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, but I mean, even like the choices you've made, like especially in that first kind of, or, you know, you're not making choices the first five years of your career, obviously. You're taking anything you can get. So maybe part of it is luck, but like the first 10, 15 years of your career, it's like, there seems to be like an aesthetic that you're drawn to, a, a, a type of film. And I don't know if you're consciously running away from Hollywood stuff or not.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  No, no, because I like big movies. You know what I mean? It's just, it's so, I, I like to think I've, you know, you can only do so much curation.

• 18:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  You know, and then so much of it is, you know, I'm so dependent on other people and, and timing and job, you know what I mean? So it's, you try to curate within, within happenstance.

• 18:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  You know?

• 18:33Josh Horowitz?

  So the, the big markers, which we should hit, and obviously we'll get to East of Eden, but I want to hit some of the major ones. I mean, like.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  But can I say one, one thing?

• 18:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  Is like even in the serious roles or whatever, like I always try to, like, you know, maybe other people don't think it's funny, but I, sometimes I think, like, I always try to infuse some humor, even in the darkest stuff.

• 18:53Josh Horowitz?

  So should I rewatch East of Eden? What should I, what's the humor I should look for in that?

• 18:57Speaker 02

  I think, I think there is some funny things in it.

• 19:01Josh Horowitz?

  Let's talk about East of Eden. So this is, this is, this is an ambitious piece of work. This is Zoe Kazan, um, interpreting this obviously classic Steinbeck novel, 1952 novel. Um, this is, these are big shoes to fill for everybody. Um, seven parts. You, Mike Feist, great Florence Pugh. Talk to me, is this like, did you know Zoe, like just being in New York? Was she a contemporary friend?

• 19:26Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm getting self-conscious of how I'm sitting. Do I look, do I look like I'm sliding down?

• 19:30Josh Horowitz?

  I'll slide down with you.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  Hold on one second. Let me prop up a little bit. Okay, there we go.

• 19:34Josh Horowitz?

  Good posture. Talking about a weighty work.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  This is a proper interview here. Let me, let me get, let me get set.

• 19:38Josh Horowitz?

  This is the important stuff.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  Um, Zoe, yeah, Zoe, I've known for a while through like, you know, New York theater world. And we have a lot of mutual friends, but this is the first time we worked together. But, you know, I'd seen, um, plays that she's acted in, plays that she's written. Um, so, uh, I mean, uh, I knew, before I even read it, I knew it was going to be well-written. I think she's a fantastic writer.

• 20:00Josh Horowitz?

  So does this come directly from her or is this through usual? Okay, so she hits you up, says, take a look at this. Florence is maybe already involved.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Florence is already involved. Um, I think she was the only one involved at the time. Um, you know, when, uh, I've told this sort of anecdote before, but, uh,

• 20:19Speaker 02

  I was, I was, I've sort of typecasted myself a little bit and I thought she wanted me to play Charles, the brother, you know, just because like, I think the series of roles that I had done for the, you know, three, three years, it sort of felt more right. And so, but then she sort of, she explained why she wanted me to play Adam and, and I thought she, she's better at explaining this, but this sort of like masculine feminine thing of like how one presents as and very like sort of Jungian explanation. And I just thought, and I was so game because, you know, it was, it was going to be a challenge and I knew, you know, a lot of actors say that, but it really was. It was, it was gratifying

• 21:02Speaker 02

  because of how difficult the role is. I mean, the role sort of spans 20 something years.

• 21:08Josh Horowitz?

  It's a saga, it's a true family saga.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  He changes, it's epic. It's just like a real epic journey that you have to, you know, the, the technical thing as an actor where you have to really measure out the, the arc, you know, because it's a, it's a, it's a slow arc, slow big arc.

• 21:23Josh Horowitz?

  Are you shooting in sequence or are you?

• 21:25Speaker 02

  No, never. Oh, no, that, that too, you know, so you have to just kind of keep track of that.

• 21:29Josh Horowitz?

  So is that, that, I mean, not, not say it's the main job, but it is a key, very key part of the algorithm, I would imagine. It's like in your script, like knowing, okay, where am I, what happened right before, what after, like just really measuring.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  It is, it is because, you know, when you get, you know, when you get to it on the day, it's sometimes, um, it would be easier to sort of swing for the fences every scene, you know, and make every scene its own little movie. And you have to sort of make sure you don't, you know, you can't sort of blow your wad on every, on every little thing. You can't hit a homerun on every little thing. It's, sometimes you got a bunt, sometimes you have to hit a single, you know.

• 22:07Josh Horowitz?

  That's what comes with age too, is like knowing, like, cause when you're a kid, when you're a young actor, you wanted to show off. You want to show everything you can do in every scene.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  No, yeah.

• 22:14Josh Horowitz?

  And knowing like, the right tool for the right job.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  Exactly. And that, that takes, that takes, that's like going to school and like, these are the skills that you learn. Like I think, I think, you know, people have sort of inherent talent, but this is where you can, you know, go, where I appreciate going to like theater school. Cause you know how to, you, you learn how to do this stuff. You, you know how to use your toolbox.

• 22:35Josh Horowitz?

  Where are you at now with, I mean, I've seen all seven episodes. It's great. Have you watched this all?

• 22:40Speaker 02

  I have, yeah, but not in a while. Yeah, yeah.

• 22:42Josh Horowitz?

  So you're able to watch it. You're able to kind of appreciate it because it's big. It's not just you. Obviously there's an ensemble here. So you can kind of like take yourself out of it a little bit.

• 22:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've got, that's another thing. As I've gotten older, I've gotten better at, you know, I used to like, oh, I can't watch myself or, you know, and you know, I still, TV is funny in that way because, um, uh, you know, movies are a little bit easier because you can like go to the screening and celebrate it with people. And we will, you know, for this, we'll have a screening of, uh, premiere of like the first two episodes and I'll, and I'll watch that. But TV, I always found a little bit harder to watch yourself because, um, uh, it's weird, it's a little weird to do it by yourself. Cause you're just like by yourself and that's odd. And then I also feel strange about like inviting people over to, to watch it, you know, it's at least at a movie thing, everyone can just go and whatever. Yeah.

• 23:30Josh Horowitz?

  So this is, I would imagine it's a pretty extensive shoot, just in terms of length of time. This is shot, and you shot this where in?

• 23:36Speaker 02

  New Zealand. Yeah, yeah. Which, you know, it's just funny because it's such a, an American novel and the landscape is so specific. It's another character, you know, this, the Salinas and, and California at the time. But, um, the, the landscape in New Zealand for that, especially for the time period was like pitch perfect, you know?

• 23:55Josh Horowitz?

  By the way, I want to throw out another actor who I'm always impressed by, Kieran Heinz.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Oh my God, I love him.

• 24:00Josh Horowitz?

  He's so good. He's one of these guys that like, people know, I guess by now, but he, he should get more props for the career he's had, what he, what he brings.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. And he has gotten, you know, at least like actor, actor to actor stuff, you know, um, but he, I mean, I, I was looking forward to working with, I mean, this cast is pretty incredible. But, um, he's someone I've admired from afar for a long time. So I was so, I was so excited to work with him.

• 24:24Josh Horowitz?

  All right. So let's backtrack. This is your life for you, Christopher Abbott. Okay. So I mean,

• 24:28Speaker 02

  Are you going to tell me what happened in my life?

• 24:29Josh Horowitz?

  I'm going to tell you what happened. So you were in a Nurse Jackie episode.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. That was my first, uh, I think that was my first TV thing.

• 24:36Josh Horowitz?

  Little Law and Order, that's a right of passage out of New York.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Classic New York.

• 24:38Josh Horowitz?

  Only one Law and Order credit? I mean, some guys have like six different Law and Orders.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  No, speaking about blowing your wad, I think I did that for that Law and Order. I think I was a goth, uh, talk about a skeleton in the closet. I, I played like some goth, uh, it's, I was the one who the audience would think it was the killer, the obvious, you know, I think, whatever. I think I was like choking on my girlfriend against the fence, a chain link in goth makeup, you know, but I wasn't actually the killer. Yeah. It was, um, that was, and I think, well, that was Law and Order, um, Criminal Intent. And I like to think, I think the season, I think they stopped doing that, uh, after my, either my episode or that season, they, they cut off Criminal Intent.

• 25:24Josh Horowitz?

  Did you see the goth performance?

• 25:26Speaker 02

  They're like, end this entire show. I think, yeah.

• 25:30Josh Horowitz?

  Wow. It takes a lot to destroy Law and Order.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  I blame it on me.

• 25:32Josh Horowitz?

  Wow. Dick Wolf has a gripe with you.

• 25:37Josh Horowitz?

  More Happy, Say Confused coming up.

• 25:43Speaker 04

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• 26:13Speaker 06

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• 27:02Josh Horowitz?

  Martha Marcy May Marlene, great film.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. That was my first like film, film.

• 27:06Josh Horowitz?

  That's a great one. And obviously Girls, which is always going to be a big part of your career. At that point, like, I mean, joining that right from the start, was that disorienting to be, I mean, that, that became a cultural touchstone very quickly.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:20Josh Horowitz?

  How did you handle it in retrospect, kind of that, the fame, just being a part of the zeitgeist in that way?

• 27:26Speaker 02

  It was, it was, um, strange. Um, you know, cause when you're shooting something, you're, uh, this is always happens, you're not aware of what's, how it's going to be received. And, um, and also that first season I was doing, uh, my first, I'd done a lot of plays at that point, but my first Broadway play. So I was doing, uh, it was, looking back on it, it was amazing because I'm like, that, you know, then I really wanted to work. Now as I get older, I'm like, I don't want to work anymore. But, uh,

• 27:55Josh Horowitz?

  You're really fucking up then, man.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. But, um, but what if, you know, to shoot that during the day and then to go do this, um, I was doing house, this play, House of Blues at the time, and then doing that at night. Like, so it, for me, the experience of it lives in that, much of it lives in that sort of memory reflecting on it. It's so, that was cool. Like, you know, I was like really hustling, like, I loved it.

• 28:18Josh Horowitz?

  Did you notice people responding to you differently though? Like once like?

• 28:21Speaker 02

  It came out?

• 28:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  A little bit. I mean, I, you know, I was living, I think I was living in Greenpoint at the time, especially, so it's so, it was like very, it was site specific. You know what I mean?

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think, I think I know, but it wasn't a huge shift. It wasn't like I was getting, I didn't feel like I was getting like recognized everywhere on the street. And also, you know, I just sort of went about my life at the time. And, you know, I was doing, you know, I was doing weird things at that time. I was like, I worked at a,

• 28:56Josh Horowitz?

  You were still working side jobs? Like, like?

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, but not necessarily like, yeah, a little bit. Like I, I worked at an Italian ice, my friend's Italian ice thing in Rockaway. And I was sort of doing it in a way of,

• 29:09Josh Horowitz?

  While you were on Girls?

• 29:10Speaker 02

  That was maybe during the second season. Yeah.

• 29:12Josh Horowitz?

  Why? Did you have to for money?

• 29:14Speaker 02

  No, I didn't. Well, you know, I wasn't getting, it wasn't that much money at that time, but no, it wasn't, I just wanted to, uh, I don't know. I've had, I had many periods during my career where I sort of felt like I wanted to quit acting.

• 29:26Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 29:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think, um, and, you know, it was probably, I was trying to get in touch with like whatever working roots or, or manhood route, you know, I was like, I need to do, I'm not that, working at Italian ice shop is like particularly a manly job.

• 29:44Josh Horowitz?

  Coal mining, Italian icy stans.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, but like I was, but I, you know, I was a set carpenter on other movies at a certain point around like around that time. I just, I don't know. I think, um, maybe that was like an early identity crisis of trying to like figure out, you know, am I just an actor? Do I like, do I want to only rely on it? You know, there was, so I was probably acting out at maybe like getting noticed for a big show like this made me sort of act out in certain ways. Yeah.

• 30:13Josh Horowitz?

  Did people like agents and whatever understand the artistic decision at the time? Like where you left the show? And that's a big, that's not what people do at that kind of time.

• 30:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:24Josh Horowitz?

  And I know this got a lot of attention at the time, but like, did people in your orbit get it? Get where you were at? And were they supportive of that decision? Or was it a tough?

• 30:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's like, I mean, it's so long ago now that like, I even forget the series of events, but it wasn't, you know, um, I remember like there's articles and stuff about it that made it more dramatic than it actually was, which is always the case. I mean, it really was, um, you know, it was, at least I'll say at least on my end, uh, I was always, I was always nervous to sign on to something for multiple seasons because whatever, my own fear of commitment generally. So, uh, you know, it wasn't, I was a guest star for the first two, two, two seasons. And, um, you know, they wanted me to sign on, you know, for then on, on the third season for then to sign up for like a six year or

• 31:15Speaker 02

  whatever. And that just sort of scared me just because, you know, I liked, I liked working on it, but I get, you know, I get bored easily. So I don't, I had never gone back to a show.

• 31:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  That was the first time I ever went back and did another, all the jobs I'd done up to that point. It's like, I would do it and it's done.

• 31:31Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 31:32Speaker 02

  I'd never gone back to something. So I, at a certain point, I was just like, I don't know. Uh, I just want to do something else.

• 31:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. You must feel good about signing on for 10 X-Men movies now, knowing that that's the next.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  It's not that, it's not that many. It's not that many. But I did like, you know, it didn't see now as getting older too, you know, I am kind of looking forward to that.

• 31:55Josh Horowitz?

  Stability kind of.

• 31:56Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I mean, the, the team is really good. You know, Jake, Jake Schreier, who's directing it, I'm, I'm very excited to work with him. And, um, I, I have roots in X-Men, you know? I mean, I loved it when I was a kid.

• 32:09Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 32:09Speaker 02

  Loved it. Yeah. I loved, I loved the cartoon. I had comics, toys, you know? So there's something, uh, you know, it's not just jumping into like a Marvel thing for the sake of it. I, I have, I have some, uh, childhood or adolescent stake.

• 32:24Josh Horowitz?

  There is something, as you probably well know, there's a lot of like, the love people have for the fact that both you and Adam Driver somehow have ended up.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  That's very funny. I know.

• 32:33Josh Horowitz?

  Have you guys discussed this yet? Like, have you?

• 32:35Speaker 02

  No, we haven't. Yeah. No, um, of course I thought about that when, you know, I thought that was funny. But Jake, you know, that's Jake's fault. Yeah.

• 32:45Josh Horowitz?

  Is Alex Karpovski playing Wolverine? Or do we have any others?

• 32:48Speaker 02

  I think that's it.

• 32:49Josh Horowitz?

  That's it.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  I think that's it. Yeah. But you know, it's, it's kind of happened eventually. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta cross paths. But I didn't, I didn't even work with Adam on Girls.

• 32:59Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  Like we didn't have, we didn't really have anything together. So I feel like we haven't worked together yet.

• 33:05Josh Horowitz?

  One last thing on Girls. I mean, people do love the episode, obviously who came back. Like that's still revered as one of the great episodes of television, period. That must be satisfying for you that like, if there was any kind of like, oh, he has weird feelings about the show, at least you ended it with this kind of like beautiful episode that people all kind of acknowledges.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  That is nice.

• 33:24Josh Horowitz?

  Right?

• 33:24Speaker 02

  I think that is nice. But again, my experience of these things is so different than the people that consume them. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it was nice. It was nice to sort of go back and, you know, just fuck around, you know, a little bit. Um, uh, but I, I don't, it, that's, it's incredible too, that people, uh, revere that episode, you know?

• 33:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:45Josh Horowitz?

  So, um, James White has to be considered, I would imagine for you creatively and professionally, probably kind of a game changer? Is that fair to say?

• 33:54Speaker 02

  In a, in a small way, yeah.

• 33:55Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, we were talking before about like the festival experience, how like it seems like something's going to like take over the world. And maybe that's what this was. But the right people saw it, the bright people.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  Exactly. It's not, it's not a household movie by, by any means, but it was a movie that, you know, more than like what it did for me, it was, um, you know, at the time, you know, uh, Josh Mann, who directed it was, is, was a good friend of mine and, uh, Sean Durkin, who I, you know, and Antonio Campos produced it.

• 34:22Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  So it was the first time where I felt a lot of freedom in getting to do what I wanted and felt very comfortable. I didn't feel like I was working for someone. And I think that was the first time I had just artistically sort of had that freedom and, um, and freedom to experiment and, you know, and really have some input in, in the movie. So, um, for multiple reasons that, yeah, that movie was, uh, momentous. You know what I mean? And I think, I think career wise, it's sort of, um, uh, if I had to look from the outside in, maybe I think it, people maybe took me a little bit more seriously.

• 35:05Josh Horowitz?

  I would imagine in subsequent jobs, the directors, the casting directors saw that and said, get me that guy or at least get him in the room.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 35:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right?

• 35:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 35:14Josh Horowitz?

  Like, I don't know if like jumping ahead, like Catch 22, like, I don't know if that was on the casting directors or Clooney's radar, but like.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  I don't think Clooney saw that.

• 35:21Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 35:21Speaker 02

  No, I auditioned for Catch 22. I just had, I just had a really, I, I think I just had a really good audition.

• 35:28Josh Horowitz?

  Were you a good auditioner? Probably, hopefully don't have to do that too much lately, but.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, I did, I liked, I was pretty, sometimes I was pretty good. I liked going into the room.

• 35:38Josh Horowitz?

  The challenge of it, the adrenaline, the what?

• 35:41Speaker 02

  I liked, well, again, to equate it to theater, it was like a little bit, you know, I liked going into the room and there was people there.

• 35:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  As, you know, I was never, I was never good at like Zoom, you know, or whatever, making, making my own tape at the time, you know? Um, I was terrible at that. I hated that. But I liked going, it was a little performance, you know? You go into a room and you do something. But, um, but that was just a great, you know, George Clooney and I just sort of, I think we, he just understood what I was, uh,

• 36:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  working with. But, um, that, that was great. I'll always remember that.

• 36:17Josh Horowitz?

  Is there a great audition that didn't necessarily even pan out into a role that still sticks out in your mind in terms of like, the experience of it was just great? Just to connect with a filmmaker you admired or material? And even if it didn't pan out, that still jumps out to you?

• 36:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, there, um, uh, yeah, there was one, there's, there's a few. I'll tell a sincere one and then a sort of funnier one. Um, I auditioned, speaking of a weird coincidence, Clooney, but I remember I auditioned for that movie Money Monster.

• 36:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  That Jodie Foster directed. And, um, that was like a really.

• 36:53Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, the Jack O'Connell role, probably.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and he's great.

• 36:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  And, but, uh, I just remember auditioning for that and, uh, and Jodie, um, I didn't get it, but she wrote a really nice email to me and, uh, I'll always remember that. And that experience was really good. But I remember I auditioned for, uh, this, I forgot where the production of this play Orphans by Lyle Kessler.

• 37:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yep. Oh gosh, that was one that ended up in, wait, was that Shire?

• 37:18Speaker 02

  No, it wasn't that production. It was like an early, it was like some earlier one. I don't think it was in, I don't think the production was in New York. I forget. Anyway, but the point is I'll always remember this. Um, I thought I was really good in the audition. And I was really, really, I was going for it. And I was like, you know, I had this whole, we're, I was auditioning in this big room or whatever. Uh, I was, I was, I was doing crazy shit. And, uh, I remember getting the email. I was like, I think I nailed this one. I remember getting the email. I was like, I was anxious about the reaction. And of course my brain, I, my agent said, they said, uh, he's, uh, Chris was like fine or whatever, but he was, uh, not of this world. Like not like, but I, I first read it like

• 38:03Speaker 02

  he's out of this world.

• 38:06Josh Horowitz?

  Nailed it again.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  And I was like, so I got it. And she was like, no, no, no. She's like, you're not, they're like, you're not, you're on a different, you're on a totally, and I was like, got it.

• 38:16Josh Horowitz?

  Good note taken.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I was like, he's out of this world.

• 38:21Josh Horowitz?

  You've worked with, um, I love J C Chandra, I'm a fan of his.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's a, he's a good buddy.

• 38:25Josh Horowitz?

  Run into him a lot in New York, obviously. He's always around.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  He's always, always walking around.

• 38:29Josh Horowitz?

  And you, you worked with him on Most Violent Year.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:32Josh Horowitz?

  Does he owe you or do you owe him for Craving the Hunter, for your appearance in that in retrospect?

• 38:36Speaker 02

  He owes me big time.

• 38:42Speaker 02

  I feel like I can, I can safely, you know, I'm just gonna, I can shit talk myself.

• 38:47Josh Horowitz?

  Sure, what happened?

• 38:48Speaker 02

  I didn't know what I was doing in that thing. I didn't, I didn't understand what the power was, what the superpower was. I didn't know what was going on. I was like, what? And like, I was like, so I take off my glasses and what happens and whatever. And like, no one, I feel like no one really had a good answer.

• 39:05Josh Horowitz?

  Can someone give me an answer?

• 39:07Speaker 02

  I don't know what I was wearing in that, in that thing. I've, I've sort of, I've, I've sort of buried that deep in the.

• 39:13Josh Horowitz?

  Sorry to unearth it.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  But, I mean, again, the experience is I like, I love Aaron.

• 39:19Josh Horowitz?

  Committed.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, Alessandro and of always a good, good buddy of mine. Like, I like, like, the people, I love working with these people, but you know, that was a.

• 39:27Josh Horowitz?

  It's a learning.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  It's a, it's a, it's a learning curve, but, but they're all great in the movie, and they're great in the movie. I don't, I'm, I don't know what I'm doing in that thing.

• 39:35Josh Horowitz?

  Did you, did you see yourself in the movie? Like, did you watch the final product? And then, did it hit you like afterwards or in the moment were you thinking that?

• 39:42Speaker 02

  Uh, in the moment, I was, in the moment, I was like, I was like, I don't, I don't think this is going well. But, um, but you know, I wanted to, I, JC asked me to do it and I had never done a movie like that. I, I, I, like, sometimes I don't pick things for actor reasons. I was like, I want to go see how the wheels turn, how the gears turn on a product. Like, I'd never done a, you know, superhero. I was like, I'm, I want to see how this works.

• 40:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  You know, it was interesting.

• 40:11Josh Horowitz?

  Will, will X-Men be better than Kraven the Hunter? Can you guarantee me that?

• 40:14Speaker 02

  I will guarantee you that. At least me, at least from my own, you know what I mean? Yeah.

• 40:21Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so, so a little bit on, on the, the future for you with, with X-Men, which.

• 40:24Speaker 02

  Sorry, JC.

• 40:26Josh Horowitz?

  I feel like.

• 40:27Speaker 02

  He doesn't care.

• 40:27Josh Horowitz?

  He doesn't care. I, I've seen him since and I.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  He's great.

• 40:30Josh Horowitz?

  He wants, I think at some point I need to have the postmortem on, on Kraven because there's a lot to be told.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, yeah.

• 40:35Josh Horowitz?

  But, okay, so, so on the X-Men front, which I know, look, you haven't even read a script, so there's nothing to really say.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, genuinely, I'm not being coy. I don't, I don't know what, yeah.

• 40:42Josh Horowitz?

  All good, so I'm not digging for plot stuff, but I'm just curious, like, how this happened? Like, do you, is this just an audition? Is this?

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:51Speaker 02

  Oh, sorry.

• 40:51Josh Horowitz?

  No, that's all I got, like.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, Jake Schreier, I mean, I think he'd seen other, you know, I think he'd been a fan of mine, but I had to, um, no, I test, you know, audition. Or like, I sort of read something on Zoom first and then I had to go in and, and test for it.

• 41:09Josh Horowitz?

  Camera test kind of thing, like they put you in costume, like a whole thing, like.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  A little bit, just like a little bit of a vibe.

• 41:15Josh Horowitz?

  And did you have a take on it? Cause like, obviously there have been two very notable interpretations and live action of this. And I would imagine you're not the kind of actor that's going to want to be like, oh, let me do the same thing.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  No, exactly. I mean, yeah, the, look, but I also didn't have a script then either, you know, so, but I, I obviously know of X-Men. I've been a fan of X-Men and, um, you know, we, we read from, I don't know if they were necessarily like dummy, dummy sides or scenes.

• 41:41Speaker 02

  But they were very human, you know what I mean? And, uh, uh, I still don't know, you know, the, the fun part for me is the journey of figuring out how I'm going to do it.

• 41:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  And I'm, it's a challenge that I think I'm excited because that's also going to be a challenge. You know what I mean? Like a true acting challenge and, uh, I have some ideas for the approach.

• 42:06Speaker 02

  This is gonna, I don't want to, I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  But I'll, I'll give you a fun little thing. I've been very interested lately in just broadly the idea of like consciousness. You know what I mean? And, um, uh, I'm not, I'm not saying I'm going to do the ultimate, um, method acting here and try to be psychic. By the time I do this movie.

• 42:34Josh Horowitz?

  But I'm getting close, Josh.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  But I gotta tell you something. I've had a few moments or things that I'd like, I'm like, that's pretty good.

• 42:42Josh Horowitz?

  You, you can read people's minds, you feel like?

• 42:44Speaker 02

  No.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  I don't want to talk too much about.

• 42:47Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, you brought it up. What do you, what do you, what do you, you, you, you're at one with the universe. What are you sensing beyond what I can do?

• 42:54Speaker 02

  All right.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  Do you know what remote viewing is?

• 43:03Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  This is going to make me seem like a crazy person.

• 43:09Josh Horowitz?

  You opened up Pandora's box.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  I did open it up.

• 43:14Speaker 02

  Okay, I did an exercise. I'll leave it at that.

• 43:18Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  But I did an exercise where, um, I was meant to, uh,

• 43:25Speaker 02

  a friend, um, drew a, okay, I was doing this with a friend. And, um, their relative was in a house in Long Island. And there was a picture in the house in Long Island. And I had to try to essentially try to see or guess what it was.

• 43:47Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 43:48Speaker 02

  Long story, very long story short, I didn't get it. But I did end up getting this very big painting that was in the room. And I, and I had to draw something. And it matched pretty well. And, uh, that friend, uh, uh, got it framed for, for me. It was a pretty.

• 44:06Josh Horowitz?

  Is this, this recent, this is prior to getting the job?

• 44:09Speaker 02

  I shouldn't have even brought this up because, uh, it was, it's just going to take, for full context, it's going to take about 30 minutes. You know what I mean?

• 44:16Josh Horowitz?

  You demonstrated you got.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  Kind of get, you get what I'm getting at, all right.

• 44:20Josh Horowitz?

  Did you tell Jake this? Is this what got you the job?

• 44:22Speaker 02

  Look at that.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  It's all about crystals, Josh. It's all about crystals. You don't even know.

• 44:29Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, my God. All right, I have to, I have to let you go very, very quickly. So here, we're gonna end with the, sadly, apparently you have to run. Um, profoundly random questions. That's the tradition we end every Happy Sad.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Okay, great.

• 44:38Josh Horowitz?

  You ready? Dogs or cats?

• 44:39Speaker 02

  What a weird thing to end on. God damn it.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  Whatever.

• 44:45Josh Horowitz?

  Dogs or cats?

• 44:46Speaker 02

  Dogs.

• 44:47Josh Horowitz?

  All the way.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  No que, no, no question, no hesitation.

• 44:52Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect?

• 44:53Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  What do I collect?

• 45:01Speaker 02

  Not much.

• 45:02Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Some vinyl.

• 45:04Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  But not, not big. I'm not, I'm not a, I like getting, I like throwing out.

• 45:09Josh Horowitz?

  Great.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  I'm a big, I like throwing garbage out.

• 45:12Josh Horowitz?

  Great.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't collect that much.

• 45:13Josh Horowitz?

  You can get rid of this on your way out, the garbage.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  What, get rid of what?

• 45:17Josh Horowitz?

  There was a lot of garbage over there.

• 45:20Josh Horowitz?

  Favorite video game of all time?

• 45:22Speaker 02

  Ooh, favorite video game, that's a good, ooh, that's a good one. You know, I start, I played video games when I was a kid and I kind of started again pandemic, obviously, you know?

• 45:34Speaker 02

  The more recent ones I played, I like the sport, I always liked sports games.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  But, um, The Last of Us was great.

• 45:42Josh Horowitz?

  One and two?

• 45:44Speaker 02

  I played both, they were both great. Two, two, I think, it's hard to decide.

• 45:47Josh Horowitz?

  This is a controversial subject, two.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Two was great.

• 45:49Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  God of War was, was really good.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  Those are like the most complicated games I can play, otherwise it's sports games. Oh, man, there's, but when I was a kid, Metal Gear Solid.

• 46:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  That, that original, anyway, yeah.

• 46:03Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt? Dakota Johnson asked me that, I ask everybody that.

• 46:13Speaker 02

  One bee in, one, mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 46:19Josh Horowitz?

  You got this.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  Oh, God, that's hard. I don't want a bee in my butt.

• 46:24Josh Horowitz?

  Then you're going to the mouthful, I'm sorry.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  I got a mouthful of bees.

• 46:26Josh Horowitz?

  What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 46:29Speaker 02

  Dog.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, sleeping dog.

• 46:32Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 46:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:33Josh Horowitz?

  Last actor you were mistaken for?

• 46:40Speaker 02

  Annoyingly, no, actually not annoyingly, it's great.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  But it was just an age thing that I was like, what? Mandy Patinkin.

• 46:47Josh Horowitz?

  Wow. You were great in The Princess Bride.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  It wasn't I was mistaken for, but someone was like, I wasn't mistaken for him, but someone was like, okay, Mandy Patinkin. And I was like, now? I was like, oh, fuck. I was like, that's not good.

• 47:03Josh Horowitz?

  You know, I just had it to hear someone that said they get mistaken.

• 47:05Speaker 02

  He looks great, but I'm just, he's older.

• 47:06Josh Horowitz?

  I just had it here, another actor who said they get mistaken for you. Kit Harrington.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that, that's.

• 47:12Josh Horowitz?

  Has that happened to you the other way or no?

• 47:14Speaker 02

  It has, it had, you're right, that is a while ago. I think there was a period where, um, especially, I think, we both had like, uh, the same amount of facial hair and, and I get it. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, you want to hear a funny little one? I remember long, this is a while ago, I did a movie and I was doing this movie in Cleveland. And, um, I was at dinner with some of the cast and, uh, the waiter, the waiter comes out and, and was like, uh, I hope you enjoyed everything. Our chef, um, is, hey, my, the chef here is a really big fan. Can he come take a picture? And I was like, yeah, of course. And then, uh, he comes out and he's really, you know, he's really nervous and he's like, hey, sorry. I was like, no, what do you mean? The food was great, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, he's like, oh, yeah, yeah.

• 47:59Speaker 02

  He's like, he's like, I, I just don't want to buy. I was like, what are you, I don't know. At this point, I'm like, it's, it's fine, you know, it's fine. And he's like, uh, and we're all taking a picture and, uh, Dan, I was doing this movie, Dan Stevens was also there. So he, he knows the story. And, uh, we're taking the, and we're taking the picture and he's like, you know, he's like kind of shaking and he's like, thank you so much. I was like, it's no, I was like, dude, it's fine. He's like, thank you so much. And he's like, uh, he's like, yeah, he's like, me and my wife, just, you know, we watch Game of Thrones all the time. And right before the picture was taken, I go, oh, that's not me, man. And he's like, he's like, oh, yeah. And then with the, the break off and I was like, do you still, you know what I mean? I was like, you know.

• 48:39Josh Horowitz?

  We can still delete the photo.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  If you, we already took it at that point. I would love to see that. I was like, I wonder if, I wonder if the camera caught his utter, in either just disappointment.

• 48:50Josh Horowitz?

  The dying light in all your eyes.

• 48:51Speaker 02

  That's not me and cheese. Yeah, yeah.

• 48:55Josh Horowitz?

  And a worst noted director has ever given you?

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Um, worst noted director, I mean,

• 49:05Speaker 02

  you know, I was going to say like faster.

• 49:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  But sometimes I get what that means. I can't think of one, I'm sorry.

• 49:11Josh Horowitz?

  You've been well directed, this is a good sign.

• 49:13Speaker 02

  I think so, yeah, I've been pretty good.

• 49:15Josh Horowitz?

  Congratulations, East of Eden.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, we covered a lot in a short amount of time.

• 49:20Josh Horowitz?

  We packed it in, but we'll have you back, man.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  I don't know what I said.

• 49:23Josh Horowitz?

  60% was, made sense.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  Holy God. All right, I'm so tired.

• 49:28Josh Horowitz?

  I'm so happy you did this.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Thank you so much, buddy. Yeah, it's been a very, it's been a while, I'm happy to finally be here.

• 49:34Josh Horowitz?

  Definitely, congratulations and everything. Get back to that kid of yours, congratulations again on that friend, most importantly.

• 49:42Speaker 07

  The world of Sonic the Hedgehog has been thrust into a not so dark, not so stormy, hard-boiled detective story that probably nobody saw coming. Follow Sonic and the Intrepid Chaotics Detective Agency as they take on their biggest case yet. This high-flying, action-packed adventure will take them across the world, fighting for every clue they can find. It's one heck of a tale, which is good because this story might be the only thing that can save their lives. Well, if that's all, I can just dispose of you. Wait, what?

• 50:26Speaker 07

  All will be revealed in Sonic the Hedgehog Presents: The Chaotics Case Files. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  Thanks, Josh.

• 50:41Josh Horowitz?

  Good to see you, man.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Appreciate it.

• 50:42Josh Horowitz?

  All right.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  We did it.

• 50:43Speaker 07

  And so ends another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.