Nara Smith: “I have a real issue with people trying to put women in boxes” Influence and identity

Model and influencer Nara Smith is one of TikTok’s most recognisable faces. With over 15 million followers across social media, she’s become known for her aesthetic cooking videos and signature ASMR-style voice. Think making skittles from scratch, wearing haute couture. In this wide-ranging chat with Fearne, Nara talks about raising four young children alongside a flourishing career, pushing against society’s need to put women in boxes and the challenge of making friends when you’re just so busy. She also opens up about her life behind the camera, the warped sense of reality created by the content we consume online, and the pressure she feels to be perfect. Plus, Nara reveals her love for builders tea - and the shocking number of sugars she’ll take in her cuppa! Nara Smith’s cook book, Homemade, is out now. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Chris Olsen https://pod.fo/e/6bb101 Megan McKenna https://pod.fo/e/697835 Miquita Oliver https://pod.fo/e/65f41a Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:29Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that explores the moments that make us who we are. I'm very excited because today I'm chatting to Nara Smith.

• 0:41Speaker 02

  I have this weird thing where I just go on autopilot. So something traumatic or big or whatever it is might happen. And then I just like, I don't even really acknowledge it. I'm just like, I just need to keep going and going and going. And then at some point I'll have a good cry about it and work through it.

• 0:57Fearne Cotton?

  Like survival mode?

• 0:59Speaker 02

  Pretty much, just compartmentalizing things to make it over the hard thing and then figure it out later.

• 1:07Fearne Cotton?

  Like me, you might have seen model and influencer Nara Smith pop up on your timeline over the last few years. She's known for her very intricate recipes and extremely glamorous outfits. Think Oreos from scratch meets haute couture. With over 12 million followers, she has created a real buzz online. And she joined me in the Happy Place studio on the UK leg of her very, very busy book tour. A cookbook inspired by her life growing up in Germany and really lovely memories of her grandmother's cooking. We spoke about so much in this chat, obviously food and cooking, because I've made some recipes from her very beautiful book. We talk about work ethic.

• 1:52Fearne Cotton?

  We talk about family life and getting married really young and having four kids when she's only 24 years old. And how I was definitely not as together as she currently is. We also talk about facing challenging moments in life. You will have seen, if you follow Nara on Instagram, that over the last year, she has been dealing with one of her children going through cancer treatment. And she's very bravely opened up about that online. Obviously, she didn't want to talk about it today, which we massively respect. But we talk about how she's coped in those really, really tricky moments. We also chat about good old fashioned builder's tea and how many sugars Nara takes in her tea. You won't believe it.

• 2:40Speaker 03

  Verizon knows that holiday math can be complicated.

• 2:43Speaker 04

  Okay, let's see, we got the four kids, four gifts each, six teacher gifts. Wait, oh, what did we get? And Sandy and the dogs. Oh, can't forget the dogs.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  Know what doesn't need math? Simplicity Plan from Verizon. One plan, one price, just $30 a line per month for you or the whole family. The holidays are complicated. Shopping our best deals and switching to Verizon is simple. For new customers, $30 per line includes auto pay and switch discount. Additional taxes, fees and terms apply.

• 3:10Speaker 05

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of the best one yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 3:45Speaker 06

  Whoever said good things come to those who wait, never shopped Black Friday early at Lowe's. Right now, get up to 50% off select major appliances. Plus, get free delivery, free haulaway and free basic installation and parts when you spend $896 or more on select major appliances. Shop Black Friday early in store and online now at Lowe's. Valid through 12/2 while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See associate on Lowe's.com for details.

• 4:30Fearne Cotton?

  Nara, what a joy to see you in real life.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 4:33Fearne Cotton?

  Because I've been imbibing your content for a long time.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:36Fearne Cotton?

  So to have you here in real life is a treat. Good tea?

• 4:40Speaker 02

  That was so loud.

• 4:42Fearne Cotton?

  It's good tea.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  I've learned that an English breakfast. So what's the difference between an English breakfast and a builder's tea? Is it the same?

• 4:49Fearne Cotton?

  Same, same thing. Yeah, I think English breakfast is kind of, it's just a more sophisticated way of saying, can I have a cup of tea? Are you having milk and sugar in that tea?

• 4:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I should have done five sugars, but I did three.

• 5:01Fearne Cotton?

  Five, three?

• 5:03Speaker 02

  I just tasted that. I'm like, hmm, could have used more.

• 5:06Fearne Cotton?

  Five sugars?

• 5:08Speaker 02

  It's a big cup.

• 5:09Fearne Cotton?

  Wow. That, you're going in strong with the sugar. I love it. I mean, why not?

• 5:15Speaker 02

  Very sweet.

• 5:16Fearne Cotton?

  Also hectic schedule, so the energy is needed. This book tour, you've been, you've done the States, you've done the UK.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Then we're doing Germany and then we're done. It's sad though, because I feel like there was such a big lead up to it and all these stops and all these places and all these flights. And then now it's done, almost.

• 5:34Fearne Cotton?

  Has it been what you thought it would be?

• 5:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I didn't really go into it with a lot of thought, I guess. It was just like, okay, let's get there. But seeing people in real life is just so, it's so different than when you're just posting.

• 5:49Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  And hearing their stories and seeing their energy and just seeing the sheer amount of people that show up for you is quite crazy.

• 5:56Fearne Cotton?

  I guess this is the first proper time you're experiencing your fans, your followers in real life. Because it is, there is such a detachment when you're posting online. It's like, you know, you can read comments and you can roughly see how many people are looking at your content. But meeting people, different story.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  So different. And especially just, I don't know, people buying tickets and coming to see you. And there were people that took flights, people that took six hour car rides with infants. I'm like, you guys, thank you.

• 6:27Fearne Cotton?

  So lovely.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  So lovely.

• 6:28Fearne Cotton?

  It's so great. I mean, let's talk about your beautiful book. First of all, this front cover is fucking cool.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Isn't it so fun?

• 6:36Fearne Cotton?

  It's just the best front cover.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  It is really good. I wanted it to live both on, in your kitchen, but also on a coffee table.

• 6:43Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, it's coffee table.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  Right?

• 6:45Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, for sure. It's beautiful.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  It's fun.

• 6:46Fearne Cotton?

  I love it. Also, I the other day, I'm going to show you this, me and my daughter made the Oreos. No way.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:55Fearne Cotton?

  They were, they were so easy. I was thinking, this is going to be.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  No.

• 6:58Fearne Cotton?

  To my daughter, pick whatever you want, what do you want to make?

• 7:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:01Fearne Cotton?

  And she was like, the Oreos are sick.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  Those are fabulous.

• 7:04Fearne Cotton?

  They were easy.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Did you like them?

• 7:06Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my God, they were gorgeous. I mean, they lasted about two days. We ate them immediately.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. I love that they lasted two days.

• 7:12Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  In my house, they're gone like the same day.

• 7:15Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, it was just me and my daughter, so it would have been quite a lot of work.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  A lot of them, yeah.

• 7:18Fearne Cotton?

  We did a whole batch, but the recipes are so great.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  They really are and they work. I feel like a lot of the times when I buy cookbooks or when someone tells me about them buying a cookbook, they're always like, the recipes didn't work.

• 7:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  And I'm like, I tested them over and over again.

• 7:33Fearne Cotton?

  They better work. I think you could be a pretty bad little cook and make anything out of here.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  I love that. That was kind of my intention. I wanted, because I'm a home cook, I never went to culinary school, I didn't get training. And I started cooking around the same time I started posting on TikTok. So I haven't been doing it for years and years. So I wanted this book to really feel fun, whimsical, approachable, beginner friendly. But then if you want to spend a little bit more time in the kitchen, you can do that as well. I wanted it to feel like all these aspects of my life in a hardcover, essentially.

• 8:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, if you want to make your own cinnamon cereal.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  You can.

• 8:10Fearne Cotton?

  You probably need to be a bit more advanced, but crack on.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  A smidge.

• 8:14Fearne Cotton?

  A smidge.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  But you'll do, if I can do it, you can do it. That's what my menta, yeah.

• 8:19Fearne Cotton?

  I feel like you make it all look so easy online. Let's talk about the, the whole, the origins of how you've ended up with this brilliant book. You grew up in Germany.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  Yes, I did. I grew up in Germany, lived there until I was 18. Spent a lot of time in London, actually, weirdly enough, for work. And then I moved to the States when I was 18, which was seven years ago now.

• 8:41Fearne Cotton?

  And you moved for love?

• 8:43Speaker 02

  I did. My husband's American and he could never imagine living in Europe. And I get it, I get it. Even though I, do I?

• 8:51Fearne Cotton?

  He's missing out.

• 8:51Speaker 02

  He's missing out. But then we moved, I moved to LA because he was living in LA at the time. And then we lived there for about three-ish years, moved to Texas for a couple of years and then ended up on the East Coast in Connecticut, where we're at now.

• 9:03Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. And I love your love story. You met online and you spoke, the first phone call you had was seven.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  Seven hours.

• 9:10Fearne Cotton?

  Hours long. What did you talk about?

• 9:12Speaker 02

  You know what, that phone call, we talked about anything and everything from deep topics like religion and family and background and history and family trauma to what shoes are you wearing and what's your favorite food? Literally anything. And ever since that day, we never spend a day without talking. So every day after that, we were on the phone.

• 9:33Fearne Cotton?

  That's so lovely. And how did that phone call even end after seven hours? Is it like you hang up?

• 9:39Speaker 02

  No, you.

• 9:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Bye, no, bye again.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  I was like, this sun's coming up and I have a driving lesson in an hour. I need to go.

• 9:48Fearne Cotton?

  So you just clicked. You knew this is my person?

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, we did immediately. And then. Two-ish weeks after that, I was in Milan walking a fashion show and I told him like, I'm gonna be a little M I A time zones and I'm gonna be working and he was like, huh, that's interesting, cause I'm gonna be in Milan too. And I was like, what are you there for? And he was like, I'm watching this Tommy Hilfiger show. And I'm like, oh, I'm walking that show. So that's the first time we met and truly, that's the first time. And that was the only show I'd walked that season. So it was, it was truly fake.

• 10:18Fearne Cotton?

  And then when you met face to face, was it fireworks?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then that same day, we had our first date after the show. And he asked me to be his girlfriend and told me he loved me same day. But I told him, when he asked me, I was like, I just, I need you to think about this for a sec. Because I don't wanna date, I don't like, if you ask me to be your girlfriend, we're gonna get married.

• 10:38Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  And he was like, yep, same page.

• 10:41Fearne Cotton?

  What?

• 10:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:42Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  It was good.

• 10:44Fearne Cotton?

  And you had that instinct at a young age as well. You were what, eighteen?

• 10:47Speaker 02

  I was eighteen, yeah.

• 10:48Fearne Cotton?

  Wow. And then how long after that did you move to the States?

• 10:51Speaker 02

  So I went to Australia for work two months after that. He came to visit me out there. And then I think.

• 10:57Fearne Cotton?

  That's not a short haul flight?

• 10:59Speaker 02

  No, it was a ten hour flight for him.

• 11:01Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, this is love immediately.

• 11:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he went out and visited me. And then that trip, we actually looked at engagement rings. Crazy. And then a month after that, he met my parents for the first time for Christmas. So that was three months after he asked me. And then asked my dad whether he could marry me. Then we got engaged that same month, got married two months later. And then had our first baby nine months later. Now, six years later, we have four kids. Crazy.

• 11:27Fearne Cotton?

  What a story.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  If you know, you know.

• 11:30Fearne Cotton?

  If you know.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  That's what I believe in. Thank you.

• 11:32Fearne Cotton?

  It's so beautiful. I mean, I'm like nearly double your age, but I look back at me in my early twenties.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, what were you like?

• 11:39Fearne Cotton?

  A fucking car crush, mate. I was, I was, I had a good job. I was doing this and I was doing it relatively well. But I was turning up to work insanely hungover.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  I do get that.

• 11:51Fearne Cotton?

  My breakfast would be a cigarette and a bag of Haribo. I was disgusting. I was, I was gross. I'd wear the same clothes cause I'd not been home, like. Not cool. Here you are, as this unbelievably together sophisticated person with a family of your four children and you're married. What do you think's enabled you to get to that level of maturity and togetherness at such a young age?

• 12:15Speaker 02

  I honestly think it's because I started working so early. I got scouted by a modeling agency when I was fourteen and basically started working when I was fourteen. So the clubs and the drinking and the dating and the traveling and the late nights, all of that happened when I was a teen. To where when I was eighteen, I'm like, I'm done going to clubs, I'm done dating, I'm done drinking, I'm done doing all of these things. Because it was just too much. And then when I was eighteen, I'm like, I'm ready to start a life now and really crack on with my work and be successful at it.

• 12:47Fearne Cotton?

  Wow. I think there's something also just like in your DNA, because I started work at fifteen.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  Wait, what?

• 12:56Fearne Cotton?

  I started doing this at fifteen, not this podcast, but like telly.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 13:00Fearne Cotton?

  But I didn't grow out of it.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  You know what? That's a personality thing, maybe.

• 13:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean, I did eventually when I had kids.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:08Fearne Cotton?

  I was like, okay, we're done. But I was like thirty.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  Well, that's still young.

• 13:12Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  That's still young.

• 13:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 13:17Fearne Cotton?

  I'm just impressed. I just think what you've done and achieved and how you've built this, not only business, but your family life is exceptional at such a young age. It's amazing.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  I always wanted to be, I mean, my dad had us when he was forty-five. And I remember him just saying to us when we were older. He was like, I wish I would have had you guys a little earlier so that I would have had more energy and more to give. And I don't know, maybe that resonated with me on some level because that was my mentality then. And I'm like, when I'm forty, my kids will be almost out the house.

• 13:49Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, wow.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  And then I have another whole.

• 13:52Fearne Cotton?

  Second wind.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  Second wind. And I, I won't be too old to where I feel like I just wanna like, maybe I'll go party when I'm forty.

• 14:00Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, you will. I'm forty-five and I'm like, I'm back out. I'm like, having loads of fun. It's so great. Yeah. It's never too late.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  No, it isn't.

• 14:08Fearne Cotton?

  Never too late. So you moved to the States.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  I did.

• 14:12Fearne Cotton?

  You start your family.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:13Fearne Cotton?

  And then it was during lockdown that you were like, I really wanna get cooking. And this was also due to an autoimmune disease that you were dealing with.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  Did your homework, didn't you?

• 14:22Fearne Cotton?

  I'm not turning up without knowing everything about you that I possibly can. That's my, very much my job.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  That. So yeah, I moved to the States and then lockdown happened. And I was a stay-at-home mom at first because work visa and all of those things, I, it just made the most sense for me to be at home with the kids and I actually quite enjoyed it. But then during lockdown, I'm like, get me out. I need, I like, I need something. But I didn't quite act on it because there was so much going on and the kids were so young. And then when I had my second, I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and my eczema was so bad, which is also where the bob came from. A lot of people think I just didn't wanna wear my curly hair. It was because my scalp was literally so bad. And my hair was falling out in clumps to where doing it just felt like torture. So the bob was like a good.

• 15:12Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Place to land. But then I got diagnosed with my autoimmune COVID. And then I grew up in the fashion industry, so fashion has always been a huge part of my life and what I like doing. So when I was making myself food, my agent at the time, she was like, you should just get on TikTok. And I'm like, get on TikTok. A dancing platform. I'm not, I'm not doing that.

• 15:33Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, that's when TikTok was very like.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  The like little dances, yes.

• 15:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 15:37Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 15:38Fearne Cotton?

  My stepdaughter was doing all that back in the day, yeah.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  So you know, and I was like, I, hmm, that would be a crazy digital footprint. So I never did that. But then it kind of evolved into people sharing more videos that were just lifestyle content. And I was like, oh, I think I can get behind that. And then she was like, you should just post. I'm like, but what do I post? And she was like, just post you making food, meal prepping, whatever you do usually. And then I kind of started doing that. I started off very simple with like a salad, cause I'm like, people can't, can't come at me for a salad. And then I was wearing more relaxed outfits, cause I didn't quite, I felt, I don't know, I was just not really thinking about it. And then I was like, but I have all these cute dresses in my closet that I don't wear out.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  So maybe I just wear them at home. And my daughter loved it. I loved it. It was just a fun thing. And then I started making things from scratch because I had to, because that was the only way for me to kind of manage my autoimmune.

• 16:37Fearne Cotton?

  And that helped?

• 16:38Speaker 02

  It did. It really did. Did it make it go away fully? No. But it definitely helped it being less inflamed. So I started cooking things from scratch, wearing the outfits because I had no place to wear them from too. And then the voice came about because I was putting my baby down. And you know, you're not, you're not gonna speak loud and wake up your baby.

• 16:58Fearne Cotton?

  God, no. I'm like, if I, if anyone was in my house, like my mom was over, don't utter a word.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  No.

• 17:04Fearne Cotton?

  Shut it.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  Walk, do not close the door.

• 17:06Fearne Cotton?

  Is essential.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  It's essential. So I was putting them down, but then I was also like, oh shit, it's like posting time.

• 17:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  I need to get this video up. So I spoke like quiet, a little louder, a little louder. And then landed on the voice.

• 17:20Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I love your quiet voice.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:22Fearne Cotton?

  It makes me feel all like tingly.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  Isn't it nice?

• 17:24Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, it's so lovely.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  I really enjoy it. And a lot of people do. They're like, oh, we put your videos on to go to bed. And some husbands are like, you're the first thing I hear in the morning. When they meet me, I'm like, is that good?

• 17:34Fearne Cotton?

  How do I take that?

• 17:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 17:37Fearne Cotton?

  I love it. And at what point did you think, oh, like, cause there is a whole style to your videos.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:42Fearne Cotton?

  And we all know with algorithms and how the online world works, that if there is repetition, people really like that. People are like, oh, it's, I know that person. Yeah, it's recognizable. And you have a very distinct way of like, even how you're placing the bowls down and you're mixing things. It's all very curated. At what point did you think, oh, this is working? People like this?

• 18:04Speaker 02

  I don't know whether I ever got to that point. I think it was more so me really liking shooting my content and having fun with it and finding purpose almost. Because when you're, at least for me, I'm only gonna speak for myself ever. But when I was a stay-at-home mom, I felt like my purpose was my kids. Because that's all you did all day long. And you were cooking and cleaning and kids and minding everyone else but you. To where that felt like a creative outlet to where I could do everything I loved from home.

• 18:32Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  So I guess when it gained traction and people started watching the videos, I'm like, oh, this is fun. People get it. Like, we can all just have a good time. And then I just kept doing it, I guess. And I am very specific, growing up in fashion. You kind of, you do shoots and you know your angles and you know what looks good and what doesn't, how to pose, how to position your body. So I think that kind of led me to that very, I guess, poised.

• 18:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. It's considered.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that's kind of how that came about. But I am very particular about angles and that's why I self-shoot everything. Like I come up with the recipe, the outfit, hair and makeup. I set up my tripod and my little phone and get all the angles. And then when the kids go to bed, I edit that video and get it up the next day.

• 19:18Fearne Cotton?

  I love it. By the way, you can't possibly have a bad angle. It's, it's humanly impossible. There's no way.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  I can. Wait, I just realized it matches perfect. Do you see that?

• 19:26Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, the mug and the jumper. Isn't that crazy? This is like one of your videos.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  No.

• 19:30Fearne Cotton?

  This is it.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  See?

• 19:32Fearne Cotton?

  I love it. If you were shooting this video, that's the cup you would have chosen.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Curtain behind you matches your glass.

• 19:37Fearne Cotton?

  We know what we're doing.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  You guys really do know.

• 19:39Fearne Cotton?

  We do. We try.

• 19:50Speaker 06

  Whoever said good things come to those who wait, never shopped Black Friday early at Lowe's. Right now, get up to 50% off select major appliances. Plus, get free delivery, free haulaway, and free basic installation and parts when you spend $896 or more on select major appliances. Shop Black Friday early in-store and online now at Lowe's. Valid through 12/2 while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See associate on Lowe's.com for details.

• 20:18Speaker 07

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer.

• 20:26Speaker 05

  With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work.

• 20:37Speaker 07

  That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about.

• 20:41Speaker 05

  Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 20:48Speaker 07

  That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 20:51Speaker 05

  What if your at-home manicure could last up to 21 days and you don't need to cure it with a lamp? Hi, I'm Sarah Gibson's Huddle, founder of Olive and June, and that is exactly why we created our new Dip Powder System. You get a strong, salon-quality Dip Manny with up to 21 days of wear right at home. No lamp and no salon appointment required. Our five-step method makes Dip approachable and easy to do yourself, and when you're ready for your next Manny, it soaks off in minutes with acetone. Salon-quality Dip from the comfort of your couch while watching your favorite TV show. Starting October 22nd, Dip is officially coming home. Visit oliveandjune.com/perfectmanny20 for 20% off your first system.

• 21:33Speaker 05

  That's O-L-I-V-E-A-N-D-J-U-N-E.com/perfectmanny20 for 20% off your first system. This ad is sponsored by Zocdoc. Hi, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. Have you been putting off that annual doctor's appointment because you don't want to make the call? Or maybe you've been meaning to find a new dentist, but you have no idea where to start? I find that's especially true when you move. It's hard to find your people. I've been there, which is why I use Zocdoc. Now, as a busy podcaster, parent, and someone who's always juggling a million things, I love anything that makes life easier, and Zocdoc lets you search and compare local, in-network doctors with over 250,000 providers across more than 200 specialties. You can read reviews from real patients, find a provider who feels like the right

• 22:17Speaker 05

  fit, see actual appointment openings, and book instantly. I recently had a last-minute health issue pop up and I needed to see someone fast, and instead of calling around or sitting on hold, I found a doctor on Zocdoc and booked an appointment in just a few minutes. It made the whole process so much less stressful. Now, taking care of your health just got easier. Download the Zocdoc app today. That's Zocdoc, Z-O-C-D-O-C, and book that appointment on your to-do list.

• 22:50Fearne Cotton?

  I love that.

• 22:53Fearne Cotton?

  I guess I'm frustrated that you have to point out that you making this content is an outlet for you, because the blurred lines are, people are going, oh, all this woman does is cook for her family. And quite clearly, you are now making money out of this, and you've made a business out of it, and seemingly you're cultivating a whole brand out of you doing something that you love.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  I think what people forget is I've been working ever since I've been 14. I never really stopped, apart from when my work visa had to clear. And I don't know, I feel like when, when you have hobbies that are, I guess, more domestic, it creates conversation that doesn't need to happen.

• 23:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  And it's just an odd thing. I don't, I don't quite understand, because I always, I mean, from the get-go, I would start my videos with, this is a love language of mine, it's a hobby, this is not something that's expected of me. And I think there's something beautiful about loving your home and loving, like, I'm a homebody. I love my home. I love my kids. I love being a mom. I love being a wife. I love taking care of people around me through food. But equally, I also love getting on a plane and getting out of there and being in huge boardrooms with executives, running my business, working very long hours, being on the phone all day, every day, taking Zoom meetings, and then going back home.

• 24:09Fearne Cotton?

  And also supposedly, when you're doing those videos, your husband Lucky's looking after your four kids.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  He is.

• 24:16Fearne Cotton?

  Too right.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  And he does the dishes after.

• 24:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, too fucking right. I love that.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  I know. It is truly teamwork.

• 24:23Fearne Cotton?

  I guess, because I've listened to a bunch of interviews you've done on this book tour.

• 24:26Speaker 02

  You have.

• 24:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and I, and I think you've articulated yourself so well in terms of...

• 24:30Speaker 02

  I try.

• 24:31Fearne Cotton?

  Not that you should have to defend, like, my point is, feminist, true feminism is letting women do exactly what they want to do.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  And that's where I feel like I really struggle with where people draw conclusions from, because they scream feminist from the rooftops. They're like, we're just, we want women to advance. Okay, let them then. I believe that we should support women and uplift women in whatever they choose to do, whether that is being at home, which is an insane job to do, minding your kids. That is one of the hardest jobs to ever do, and talking down on that, I kind of get protective over women that do that.

• 25:09Fearne Cotton?

  Me too.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Because that's like, it's almost degrading. What do you mean? You're raising the next generation selflessly, working 12-hour days, raising your children. I couldn't do that.

• 25:20Fearne Cotton?

  This is my big problem with the term trad wife, which I know is a contentious point, but the way that we use it, or we hear it used in, in a cultural context, is in a derogatory way. It's never used in a positive way, trad wife. And the problem we've got with that is that we'll be, we'll have women listening to this now who have no choice but to be a stay-at-home mom, because financially, having childcare, child support...

• 25:46Speaker 02

  It's expensive.

• 25:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, someone come in and nanny is, is impossible for them. So they'll make that era of their kids' lives all about them, and it's, it might not be out of choice. Even if it is out of choice, it's no one's business for a start. But the issue I've got is, all of that free labor that we do, oh, I'm a working mom, but I still do all of the cleaning and the dishwashers and the food. I do all of it. So a job, all of that free work that we do, not only do we have to do it, we now have to feel ashamed because it's a terrible thing? That, to me, is not okay. So I think the way that we're throwing about trad wife in this derogatory way is actually really dangerous and makes women who have no choice, or most women, feel even shittier

• 26:31Fearne Cotton?

  about themselves, the fact that they've got to deal with the bloody laundry, and then feel like, oh, my God, is this, I'm just doing the worst possible menial jobs here. And it's like you just said, raising kids is really important, raising the next generation. I agree.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  Like, that's, what a privilege that is, if you choose that.

• 26:49Fearne Cotton?

  It's, it's not, it's not a one thing or another conversation. It's a complex chat.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Women were so multifaceted, and that's why I have a real issue with people trying to put women in boxes, where it's like, oh, she's a trad wife, she's a working mom, she's a business, like, what if all those things can coexist? Or why don't we not put labels on things? Because those labels are very constrictive to whatever you think a woman should be. It makes no sense to me, it doesn't.

• 27:18Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  And it never made sense to me from the get-go.

• 27:20Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  So it, I don't, I don't know. I, I believe feminism is all about empowering women and making them do whatever they want to do. And if you choose to stay at home with your kids, or your husband, or whatever it may be, that you choose for yourself and you do it out of your free will and you enjoy it, I'm going to support that.

• 27:37Fearne Cotton?

  Too right. That is feminism, is supporting all women in whatever they want to do.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  And if you want to go work and, and put in 12-hour days and come home to your kids on the weekend, absolutely, if that's what you need to do and you want to do, I will support that as well.

• 27:52Fearne Cotton?

  It's a really heated issue, but one that I think you're putting some really good content out there and some really good conversation about this subject matter, because we need to challenge it.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  I think we do. I, I don't know, I just think if we all just took a second to support each other instead of tearing each other down all the time, I think it would be a better place.

• 28:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  And the internet would be a better place.

• 28:15Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, my God, it would be. I mean, that is a whole other bag of onions. You know, you've had this amazing ascent where things, the momentum is just building and building, and obviously, there's amazing opportunities that come with that, but equally, there is a lot of noise and a lot of feedback. How, how do you deal with it or mitigate it? What's your coping technique?

• 28:35Speaker 02

  I mean, in the beginning, I was very loud, and I would think about it all the time and read the comments and be like, that's not true, that's not true. What do I do? How do I correct it? And then the more I sat with it and the more I did try to correct it in the past, I'd be like, I don't think these people want to hear me anyways, because the narrative that they're spinning is because they're lacking something, or they have a certain perspective, or they have a certain narrative that they're living or they believe in that they then project onto me. So it's not about me at all.

• 29:02Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  Because any sane person would just swipe or block me or whatever it is. If they didn't want to see my content, they wouldn't leave hateful comments over and over and over again. So to me, I just kind of disregarded that, and now I spend less time on social media and I have two phones, not right now, but usually I have two phones, and I have social on one, and then my life on the other, and the other one is important. So if anyone that has access to my life texts me about something or has an opinion on something, I'm going to listen to that.

• 29:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  But the other phone, the social phone, I couldn't, I couldn't care less about. But I do really enjoy engaging with my audience and the positivity, and like, it's so nice to me finding connection through the digital medium that is my phone, but the negativity, I don't really...

• 29:51Fearne Cotton?

  No, I mean, I don't think you need to, none of us do. We all get it. Anyone who's online, it doesn't have to be someone in the public eye, we all get shit from someone, and it's...

• 29:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it could be anyone.

• 29:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's finding your boundaries and your barriers and going, right, I will listen to this group of people, but this I don't need to take care of. And, and this is an interesting point as well, because of course, now, social media is so prevalent, and everyone has access to it, and we have access to people that we wouldn't have 50 years ago. You know, movie stars are movie stars over here, pop stars are pop stars over here. And they were very unattainable and untouchable, whereas now, we kind of want something from people. You must tell us the absolute truth about your life, and actually, that's not the case. You have autonomy to go, I'll show you this bit, but this bit's off limits, and this is what I want to protect, and this is what I'm willing to put into my work life.

• 30:41Fearne Cotton?

  At what point did you start to distinguish those parts of your life and go, this is off limits?

• 30:47Speaker 02

  I think it started when I grew very rapidly on TikTok. It just felt... I I was kinda more open about what I was posting and then I kinda realized, oh, people are dissecting this and they're taking this in the wrong way and that and they're spinning their own narratives that aren't even true based off what I'm showing them and it just felt very invasive. And then also gaining that much popularity, I kind of realized that my kids were just off limits. Like, I didn't want their faces out there. I didn't want videos of them out there. And I made the conscious decision to not show their faces on the internet anymore and now I kinda play it by ear and kind of see how I feel about a certain situation, but I am a very private person and

• 31:33Speaker 02

  it feels like people know a lot about me, but they don't, if that makes sense. Like, there's a balance to me of what I share because I do want people to be able to relate to me and I want to share my struggles to maybe help someone else feel a little less lonely. Like, I do think that the internet is a beautiful place to seek connection and kind of understand each other, but then there are certain things that I'm like, I don't think that would really be helpful for me and my mental health or my family to share.

• 32:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, of course. I mean, nobody really knows what happens behind closed doors with anyone. You know, we could all, I could be sat here, I could have done radio, whatever, and then go home and have a good old cry about something. We we don't need to share everything. It's there are bits of us that needs to remain completely um, isolated in terms of, you know, it's just an inward thing. It's a it's a bit of inward work.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  It's gonna live on the internet forever. It will never leave the internet.

• 32:27Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  And I think that's a decision that sometimes I watch other people in the public eye share so much about their life and I'm like, I know where you live, I know what you do, I know where you get your takeout. I know what boyfriend did what to you and I'm like, that is even just from a security standpoint, it is a little.

• 32:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Every time someone overshares, I'm like, ugh.

• 32:49Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  I know too much about you and I don't have any ill intent. I'm just gonna keep scrolling, but what about someone else that has ill intentions?

• 32:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean, do you have that paranoia? I mean, I think you just do in the public eye, you know, slightly look over your shoulder the whole time.

• 33:03Speaker 02

  You do.

• 33:04Fearne Cotton?

  It's not a nice feeling.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  You do, but I I feel pretty secure in what what I share and I try my best to be as private as I can, but in the beginning, yeah, I was worried about it.

• 33:15Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  But now I just go about things different. Like, I'll use a different name when I order food. I'll use a different name when I check into a hotel. I'll do certain things because of bad experiences I've had. Like, I had uh, a delivery at the house and I just had my normal name, cause I mean, numbers on a screen sometimes don't feel tangible or real to me, so I just forget, I guess. And then I had my name on the order and this girl drove past the house, realized it was me, looped around, got all her friends and they pulled up to my house. And I was like, this is just not it. I would get fan letters in the mail in my letterbox. I would have girls standing outside of my house and

• 33:55Speaker 02

  it made me feel, not for myself, but for my kids. I just never wanted there to be any incident that I could have avoided.

• 34:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean, do you ever think, oh, god, what have I started? I wish I just had like a private, relaxed life.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  No, because I feel like I have a real opportunity to bring people comfort, make them feel seen, make them learn stuff, make them feel empowered, make them feel confident, make them look at the world in a more happy whimsical way. So I I do think that this was my purpose in one way or another and I'm very grateful for what I've built and everything that is coming my way. So I would never change that for the world. I just put boundaries and parameters up now that will keep me and my kids safe, but apart from that, I'm having a blast.

• 34:39Fearne Cotton?

  Good, I'm so glad.

• 34:41Speaker 02

  It's so fun.

• 34:42Fearne Cotton?

  You are having just this sort of like meteoric rise and so much excitement comes with that, but of course, the last couple of years have not been without challenges. What helps you get through difficult periods of life?

• 34:53Speaker 02

  I don't quite know because I have this weird thing where I just go on autopilot. So something traumatic or big or whatever it is might happen and then I just like, I don't even really acknowledge it. I'm just like, I just need to keep going and going and going and then at some point I'll have a good cry about it and work through it.

• 35:11Fearne Cotton?

  Like survival mode?

• 35:13Speaker 02

  Pretty much, just compartmentalizing things to make it over the hard thing and then figure it out later.

• 35:21Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  But I do, I love reading a good book. I love talking to people. I love talking to my family, my husband. Um, I got a therapist.

• 35:30Fearne Cotton?

  Good, me too.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  It's quite fun.

• 35:32Fearne Cotton?

  Best thing ever. I'm going after this.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Oh, I love that.

• 35:35Fearne Cotton?

  Every Wednesday, I wouldn't miss it.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  Right? Even just to chat and have someone on the outside that has no idea what's going on and you can just talk to them and they'll have a different perspective.

• 35:45Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 35:46Speaker 02

  Um, probably that, journaling.

• 35:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  Writing stuff down because a lot of the times you'll look back and be like, wow, I really overcame that or I really found a way to work that out or wow, I can't believe that this happened. I didn't even remember it cause I worked through it. So it it really is nice.

• 36:03Fearne Cotton?

  What do you think therapy's given you?

• 36:05Speaker 02

  Tools. I feel like I've built this little toolkit of things I could do when I feel anxious or stressed or have a hard time or to just work through things a little better than I probably would. Learned how to communicate better. I always thought I was really good at communicating until I got married and I was like, oh.

• 36:24Fearne Cotton?

  Compromise.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  What's that? So I've I've learned a lot.

• 36:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, it's the keys to everything communicating.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 36:32Fearne Cotton?

  Would you say you were naturally before that, someone that would rather skirt around the edges of a conversation?

• 36:37Speaker 02

  No.

• 36:38Fearne Cotton?

  No, you're quite. Is that the Germanic thing? You're just like, I'm gonna say the thing.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  A little too direct.

• 36:43Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, I like that.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  I give very weird compliments.

• 36:46Fearne Cotton?

  You give weird compliments? Why, why? Give us an example of that.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  Like my sister-in-law, she's the most ethereal-looking person, right? To me, she looks like an alien in the best way. Like, a beautiful alien, like, otherworldly and I was like.

• 37:03Fearne Cotton?

  Your sister-in-law an alien?

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:05Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  And I was like, to me, that's a really good compliment, but then my husband was like, people might take that the wrong way.

• 37:12Fearne Cotton?

  It depends what image is conjured when you say the word alien. I think E T.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Ooh, no, I think like glowy skin, ethereal, like floating down to earth.

• 37:24Fearne Cotton?

  Wearing a silver catsuit.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 37:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I got it.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  But I am quite direct. I'll kinda tell her how it is. And I think as a German, that's kinda how you do it. It's like very dry. No small talk, like you just get straight to the point, whereas Americans love a little bit of fluff and you need to schmooze and like you're gonna say, love you, honey, and you've never met them, like.

• 37:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I worked out there for a bit and I was like, what is this bullshit?

• 37:50Speaker 02

  But it's hard as a European for me because you don't get the honest answer. I want, that's why I tell everyone.

• 37:58Fearne Cotton?

  The truth.

• 37:59Speaker 02

  I don't care whether it's a no, I don't care whether it's a yes, I don't care any way. I just want you to tell me the truth and give me the honest answer.

• 38:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, how are you getting on in the States with with your Germanic vibes? I I, you know, I found that, I didn't live out there for long, but I was like, why will no one just tell me the answer? And it is, it's all the fluff and the oh, my god, everyone has said they loved me today. I don't think they actually do, but I'm feeling quite good about myself, but actually, is this real?

• 38:23Speaker 02

  No, it's not real.

• 38:24Fearne Cotton?

  Curiosity about this.

• 38:25Speaker 02

  It's not real.

• 38:26Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  I've learned it's not real.

• 38:27Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  Cause then they're like, I don't know, you meet the same person again that told you they loved you three weeks prior and they're like, huh, nice to meet you.

• 38:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  What do you mean, nice to meet you?

• 38:38Fearne Cotton?

  Racious.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  I don't know, it's it's interesting. I feel like I naturally attract European people in my life.

• 38:46Fearne Cotton?

  Have you made good friends out there in the States now?

• 38:48Speaker 02

  No.

• 38:48Fearne Cotton?

  Oh.

• 38:51Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I'm so sorry.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  I'm, here's the thing, though, I'm a homebody and a workaholic.

• 38:55Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 38:56Speaker 02

  So it's not even that I can't or I won't, it's just I do not have the bandwidth or time to put into having dinner dates or to chat to you or get on a FaceTime. Like, I I naturally gravitate towards friends that also have busy careers, so I guess I have a lot of pen pals that are now my best friends.

• 39:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  And we see each other when we're in the same city. Like, I met a friend of mine, she was in London, actually at the same time as I was, so we were able to hang out, but

• 39:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  It's just my life is too busy to have.

• 39:27Fearne Cotton?

  Kids, all your kids are under six, right?

• 39:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, six and under, so six, four, two and one.

• 39:32Fearne Cotton?

  Sorry, of course, you're not going out with your mates.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  And then I work, like, if you were to see my schedule, it's like every day there's something.

• 39:40Fearne Cotton?

  It's nuts. I mean, I remember, I've only got two kids, but I remember when they were both under six or probably even under ten.

• 39:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:46Fearne Cotton?

  It, you're just so overwhelmed.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then they have activities as well during the weeks.

• 39:51Fearne Cotton?

  You're a taxi driver.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:53Fearne Cotton?

  It's absolutely non-stop. And I find it, I'm someone that needs to be in absolute solitude regularly. I have to be on my own. So how are you finding that time?

• 40:03Speaker 02

  I don't.

• 40:04Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  But any minute I get, which is usually on a plane.

• 40:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  I just take it.

• 40:09Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  And the thing is also, I am a work, like, work is my life and I love it so much to where I'm on the phone or answering emails or editing content or whatever it may be until late at night. I need to get a little better at that because I wake up, I'm like.

• 40:23Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Too much blue light. But it's hard. I I think when the kids are little too, as a mum, and I don't think it is the same for dads, you are constantly touched. It's like you're being pulled at.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  I'm so overstimulated at the end of the day.

• 40:37Fearne Cotton?

  Overstimulation. What do you do in those moments of like, I am so overwhelmed, I can't cope?

• 40:42Speaker 02

  I take a deep breath. I've learned that if you get really anxious or stressed, like you're blocking oxygen to the brain because you're not breathing.

• 40:48Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  So I take.

• 40:50Fearne Cotton?

  Forget that.

• 40:50Speaker 02

  I, same.

• 40:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  I take deep breaths and then I tell myself that this moment is gonna pass.

• 40:58Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  And also, I've really learned.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Through being a parent to be patient and realize that we're all on this earth doing this for the first time.

• 41:09Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  I'm a parent for the first time. My kids are kids for the first time and they have no concept of anything truly because they're so young. They have no concept of time. They have no concept of what their day looks like. They don't even know what day of the week it is. So I think if I just sit and shift my perspective, it allows me to be really compassionate and loving and kind of let go of that anxiety and stress. Like, you know, when you're trying to get them out the door and they're like faffing around with their laces and no one wants to wear their jacket. And this person needs to go to the bathroom and this person needs a water bottle and you're just like stressed to get out because you have somewhere to be. But then I sit down and I realize like they have no idea. They don't know what time it is. They don't even know where we're going.

• 41:49Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  And it allows me to just like come back and ground myself.

• 41:53Fearne Cotton?

  It's a sensible way of looking at it because I think all of us parents, I think I'm going to chuck us all into this one.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, what is it?

• 41:59Fearne Cotton?

  At some point, like lose our shit and go, oh, I'm a terrible person. I'm a terrible parent.

• 42:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:04Fearne Cotton?

  Because it's so hard.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  It can be a lot, yeah.

• 42:06Fearne Cotton?

  It's so hard. And I think people are often reluctant to say, oh, my God, it is like, I've had a day which has been really shit and really hard and.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  And that's okay as well.

• 42:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, I agree.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  I think it's okay to have bad days.

• 42:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  Not every day needs to be perfect.

• 42:21Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 42:21Speaker 02

  But I think it's also you have so much more access to other people's lives through all the online content. And I think what people sometimes forget is it's curated. Regardless, even the moms that do like the messy, like imperfect parenting type content, they still sit down and edit that video. They still sit down and figure out whether they want to post that or not. And I think we hold ourselves to standards that we see other people portray, even though that's not even their reality. So we're all living in this like warped sense of reality because of the content that we consume. And that kind of transforms into this pressure that we put upon ourselves to be perfect because we saw Susan post a perfect video online.

• 43:03Fearne Cotton?

  So when you're doing your videos and it is all neat and you're looking absolutely gorgeous, making uh Skittles or whatever nuts thing that you're making on that day, please tell me one of your kids is like shitting on the floor in the corner. Or like, there's some, there's some stuff going on.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  I've never done that.

• 43:18Fearne Cotton?

  Okay.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Luckily.

• 43:19Fearne Cotton?

  Good.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  I don't even know what I would do then.

• 43:21Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I've had it happen. For sure. I mean, not recently.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  I'd draw the line. That's where I would draw the line. I'm like, ah. Um, I mean, yeah, they have meltdowns. They're clutching my feet sometimes. They're like, Mom, Mom, we need a snack. I'm like, do you not see I'm in the middle of making Skittles? Give me another four hours.

• 43:39Fearne Cotton?

  Four hours and your snack will be ready. Okay.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  No, they, I mean, it's loud. And I think maybe that's also why voiceovers work well for me because.

• 43:48Fearne Cotton?

  There's no sound.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  There's no sound. If I had the organic sound on, crazy.

• 43:54Fearne Cotton?

  Please post one.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  You'd have kids screaming, crying, fighting. Give me that toy.

• 44:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:02Fearne Cotton?

  I want that.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  So that's the reality.

• 44:05Fearne Cotton?

  I love it. But it's the same for all of us. We're all just, we're making up as we go along and we're trying our best.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  We're trying our best. I always believe if you're trying your best and you have to be honest with yourself and the people around you. Because when I ask, me and my husband have this thing where we ask our, like each other. We're like, did you actually try your best today? And you need to give an honest answer because sometimes you're like, yeah, I did. But then did you really? And if your answer is no, that's completely fine. Try harder. But if you genuinely tried your hardest and the outcome wasn't the way that you wanted it to be, you still did your best and that deserves an A for effort. And you can learn from whatever went wrong and try your best tomorrow. And that will probably look a little different because you've learned your lesson.

• 44:49Fearne Cotton?

  Sometimes your best is like very average. My best is very average some days.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  Best is different. Sometimes it's a hundred percent. Sometimes your best is forty. Sometimes your best is twenty. As long as you give your best for what you can in that moment, that's what matters to me.

• 45:03Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. And also sometimes amazing things come from horrendously shit show days where just everything's gone a bit wrong. And you actually go, do you know what? I've learned something about myself there or about someone else.

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:15Fearne Cotton?

  And there's a gift in it anyway.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  I learn things all the time, even, I think that's why sometimes I am quite grateful for things going not the way that I want them to go. Because I learn, oh, I like this. Oh, I actually didn't like that. I, I think I should go about this a different way. It really is humbling and eye opening.

• 45:32Fearne Cotton?

  You seem like an incredibly, from what I've read and seen online and interviews I've heard you do incredibly, I want to say naturally resilient, like you know how to move through difficult situations. You know how to remain focused and strong in the face of adversity. Is that from your parents or where, where do you think that's from?

• 45:51Speaker 02

  Probably that. Yeah. I think, I mean, my dad, dad's quite German. So like emotions were never really part of his toolkit. Um, but he showed love in so many other ways. Um, and then my mom is the opposite where she's very emotional and very reactive. And if it's a joyous day, it's the best day. If she's sad, you could tell that as well. So I think it was kind of having the balance of the both extremes in a good way, though. That really helped me kind of find my middle ground to where I feel like I, I can be very kind and compassionate. But then I can also kind of just lock in and do what I need to do. Um, and it's coming really handy.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  And then I can unpack things later with my therapist or by myself through journaling.

• 46:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:40Fearne Cotton?

  It's a good thing. I think it's interesting when you look at your parents and you can see what traits you've got and what things you maybe naturally inhabit.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  From each, you can be like, oh, I love how my mom went about this. I love how my dad just did this. So I think that's really helpful. And then I've learned, life will always be hard in whatever situation. So I've always, when I was younger, I used to wait and be like, oh, it's really crap because this big thing happened, but it's going to get better. Or, I don't know, I've always waited for it to get better.

• 47:09Fearne Cotton?

  The only way is up.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, but the more I've lived life, I'm always like, there is always going to be something, whether that's big or small or medium sized, whatever it may be. And waiting for like the perfect situation. There's never going to be a perfect situation. There's always going to be something that happens. So you kind of need to learn how to ground yourself and be a constant, regardless of what happens around you. Because life will always keep moving on around you and it's about how you approach it.

• 47:38Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, we can't mitigate challenges in life. It's absolutely impossible. And I, that's why I'm very interested. I mean, the title of our whole thing, Happy Place, is quite a loaded concept because I don't believe there is some sort of happy future where you've ticked off all the things you're meant to do and then you get to feel happiness.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  No, because then you always want something else.

• 47:56Fearne Cotton?

  Of course you do. You always want something else. But also, you know, we can't help life's curveballs come our way. And, and that's when we have to really dig deep and go, right, how am I going to get through this? And actually, sometimes I'll go, oh, my God, I've got this really challenging week at work and I know I've got like a lot of like juggling with the kids. How's it all going to work? And I'm sort of dreading it. And I think when I get to Saturday, everything's going to be amazing. And I'll get to Saturday and then I'm in a shit mood for some reason or something happens out of my control.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  Kids to frigging martial arts in the morning.

• 48:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, exactly. Always martial arts.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  Verizon knows that holiday math can be complicated.

• 48:37Speaker 04

  Okay, let's see. We got the four kids, four gifts each, six teacher gifts? Wait, oh, what did we get? And Sandy and the dogs. Oh, can't forget the dogs.

• 48:48Speaker 03

  Know what doesn't need math? Simplicity Plan from Verizon. One plan, one price. Just thirty dollars a line per month for you or the whole family. The holidays are complicated. Shopping our best deals and switching to Verizon is simple. For new customers, thirty dollars per line includes autopay and switch discount. Additional taxes, fees, and terms apply.

• 49:04Speaker 07

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer.

• 49:12Speaker 05

  With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work.

• 49:23Speaker 07

  That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about.

• 49:27Speaker 05

  Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at g o o dot g l e slash workspace with Gemini. That's g o o dot g l e slash workspace with Gemini.

• 49:39Speaker 06

  Whoever said good things come to those who wait, never shopped Black Friday early at Lowe's. Right now, get up to fifty percent off select major appliances. Plus, get free delivery, free haulaway, and free basic installation and parts when you spend eight hundred ninety six dollars or more on select major appliances. Shop Black Friday early in store and online now at Lowe's. Valid through twelve two while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See associate on Lowe's dot com for details.

• 50:13Fearne Cotton?

  Someone else that you talk about in the book and she seems to be a real key catalyst in this whole journey for you is your grandma, nan, what term would you use?

• 50:22Speaker 02

  My grandma.

• 50:22Fearne Cotton?

  Your grandma.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:23Fearne Cotton?

  Tell us about your grandma.

• 50:25Speaker 02

  I, she died when I was probably in elementary school. Don't quote me on timelines, everything's kind of blurred together. But I didn't quite realise how impactful she was on how I viewed things and how I viewed cooking and ingredients and all of that. And then when I started writing the book, she just like, it felt almost like journaling, right? It all just like comes up and you don't quite realise where it came from. And unintentionally, I wrote her a little love letter, I guess, within the book. I didn't quite realise that that was what it is.

• 50:56Fearne Cotton?

  Is that your mum or your dad's mum?

• 50:58Speaker 02

  My dad's mum. She was the only grandparent I ever met because his dad passed and then my parent, my mum's parents passed before I was born. So she was the only grandparent that I had. And she taught me so much. She taught me how to read, how to play the piano, cooking, and it just, I don't know, she was just the best.

• 51:16Fearne Cotton?

  And that must be so special for your dad to see this book that's, you know, almost dedicated to her.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  I need to talk to him about it because I haven't.

• 51:23Fearne Cotton?

  What?

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:24Fearne Cotton?

  You're going to Germany today, right?

• 51:26Speaker 02

  He's actually been at my house for a month.

• 51:30Fearne Cotton?

  Has he said, I like your book?

• 51:33Speaker 02

  No.

• 51:33Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  He said, well done.

• 51:35Fearne Cotton?

  Well done.

• 51:36Speaker 02

  He's very German.

• 51:37Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  My dad's an act of service type guy.

• 51:39Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  Like if, he'll not, he'll not tell me he loves me, but then if he knows.

• 51:44Fearne Cotton?

  He'll build you a shed.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  I love strawberries, he will go by the pallet.

• 51:47Fearne Cotton?

  Right, yeah.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  He will go to every grocery store to find them.

• 51:49Fearne Cotton?

  I like that.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  Like, he's that type of person, or he'll make sure that like, I have a hot water bottle in my bed.

• 51:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  So I'm not cold. He's that type of parent.

• 51:58Fearne Cotton?

  That's his love language.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's so special to me because that's kind of how I like receiving love as well, like acts of service, because I feel like there's so much outpour for me that it's nice when someone takes care of me and that's my dad.

• 52:10Fearne Cotton?

  Oh god, yeah. But also just as a mum of four.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:13Fearne Cotton?

  It's so rare that anyone's like, are you, are you alright?

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Are you okay?

• 52:16Fearne Cotton?

  How are you?

• 52:16Speaker 02

  What can I do for you?

• 52:17Fearne Cotton?

  Are you okay?

• 52:18Speaker 02

  It's always like, do you, what do the kids need?

• 52:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. And when you go back to Germany, is there one thing that you have to eat whilst you're there?

• 52:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's this, there's this kebab shop at the end of the road.

• 52:29Fearne Cotton?

  I wasn't expecting that.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  Really?

• 52:30Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  We used to have it every Friday after swim class. It was like a tradition growing up and then it just stuck even after swim class and we had it every Friday. I'd get this thing called lachmacun, it's like a German, uh, not a German, a Turkish pizza thing. And then they'd put the meat in with the lettuce and the cabbage and the onions and the yogurt sauce and the chili sauce.

• 52:51Fearne Cotton?

  In a pizza?

• 52:52Speaker 02

  It's like a flatbread looking thing.

• 52:54Fearne Cotton?

  Oh right, wow.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. Or in Germany, it's called a döner. How do you guys call, is it a döner here?

• 53:00Fearne Cotton?

  A doner kebab?

• 53:01Speaker 02

  Yes. You just pronounce it different. Yes.

• 53:04Fearne Cotton?

  Yours sounds way classier.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:06Fearne Cotton?

  Doner kebab.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  But it's gotten really expensive.

• 53:08Fearne Cotton?

  Oh really?

• 53:09Speaker 02

  I went back to Germany, I'm like, this used to be three, three ninety and now it's eight, eight euros.

• 53:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, inflation.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 53:16Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my, it's even hit kebabs.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  It has.

• 53:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's terrible.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  Your local little shop.

• 53:21Fearne Cotton?

  Nightmare.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  It's really sad.

• 53:22Fearne Cotton?

  Are you gonna get one today when you get there?

• 53:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I will, actually.

• 53:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, good for you.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  I do it every time. It's the first thing I do when my dad picks me up from the airport, there you go again.

• 53:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, acts of service.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  It's like, he stops so we can get it and then he keeps driving. And he knows, I don't even have to say anything.

• 53:37Fearne Cotton?

  No, he gets it.

• 53:39Speaker 02

  He gets it.

• 53:40Fearne Cotton?

  I love that.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:41Fearne Cotton?

  Before we wrap up and you wing your way back to your family.

• 53:44Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:44Fearne Cotton?

  I've got two questions for you. The first one is music based, because we're making a playlist full of songs that make you feel great. What would you put on there?

• 53:53Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  Etta James.

• 53:57Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, now we're talking.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  It's very good. Jazz of any sort, honestly. I will, I am not picky with my jazz, give it all.

• 54:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  Ray.

• 54:07Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, Ray.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Um, anything Ray is really good.

• 54:12Fearne Cotton?

  Shall we put one Ray on there, one Etta James?

• 54:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah?

• 54:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like that.

• 54:17Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, good. And the last question is where, Nara, is your happy place?

• 54:23Speaker 02

  Oh, I like that question. Probably my bed.

• 54:26Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 54:27Speaker 02

  It's comfy, I really perfected it, my pillows are good, but it has to be my bed with a hot water bottle.

• 54:34Fearne Cotton?

  Heaven.

• 54:35Speaker 02

  Or, I don't know, Americans love electric blankets, but I prefer.

• 54:39Fearne Cotton?

  Hot water bottle, you can hug it.

• 54:40Speaker 02

  You can hug it. I put it by my feet though, because I feel like if your feet are warm, your whole body warms up.

• 54:45Fearne Cotton?

  You know, you can get a big long one, I've got one.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  What do you mean?

• 54:48Fearne Cotton?

  It's like a metre long.

• 54:49Speaker 02

  You're actually joking me.

• 54:51Fearne Cotton?

  Nope.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  Where?

• 54:53Fearne Cotton?

  Amazon, and you can tighten it, not round your waist.

• 54:56Speaker 02

  What?

• 54:56Fearne Cotton?

  When you've got period pains.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 54:59Fearne Cotton?

  Amazing.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  I had no idea.

• 55:01Fearne Cotton?

  Please treat yourself to a sausage shaped hot water bottle. Do it.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  I will go find one after this immediately.

• 55:09Fearne Cotton?

  I can't believe you haven't even gone there.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  I didn't know that.

• 55:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  Wow. But my friend Iris, she travels a lot and I was looking into her travel bag and she always travels with a hot water bottle and she has the flight attendants fill it up with boiling water on her plane.

• 55:22Fearne Cotton?

  Oh.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  If it's a longer plane ride.

• 55:23Fearne Cotton?

  It's the best idea.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  I stole that idea from her.

• 55:25Fearne Cotton?

  Heaven.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:26Fearne Cotton?

  Well, you're welcome.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Well, thank you. That is actually fabulous. I had no idea.

• 55:36Fearne Cotton?

  Nara, thank you so much for being here.

• 55:38Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 55:38Fearne Cotton?

  And congrats on your stunning book.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 55:40Fearne Cotton?

  And long may your beautiful success continue.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 55:44Fearne Cotton?

  Thank you.

• 55:44Speaker 02

  That is so kind.

• 55:46Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I love that. Thank you so much, Nara. She's just such a wonderful person to chat to and obviously sort of unbelievably gorgeous. Did you see Nara's skirt? If you're watching this, rather than just listening, well, actually, if you're listening rather than watching, let me tell you what this skirt was like. Sort of like a sheer, beautiful maxi dress with little flowers, like embroidered flowers all over it, and then a big old lovely cosy mohair sweater. If you are watching this, you'll notice that I've dressed up for Nara. Sometimes obviously it looks like I've rolled out of bed, but today I've worn a suit and a shirt that is as old as Nara. Okay, I wore this shirt, I think it was like for the press, uh, back in the day when I

• 56:30Fearne Cotton?

  was doing Love Island, when I was twenty-three, when I was her age, when I was like twenty-three, twenty-four. This shirt is as old as Nara Smith. How nuts. Anyway, it's a classic, so I'm keeping it forever. But obviously I wanted to be suited and booted for Nara because I knew she would turn up in a gorgeous outfit. But I loved that and I think anyone out there who previously, I don't know, thought that her content wasn't okay, or I don't know, found her controversial, I reckon that you will have been absolutely turned because she articulated herself so beautifully there. And I think she's doing great things and the book is sensational. So thank you very much, Nara. Nara's debut cookbook, this lovely book here, it's called Homemade.

• 57:15Fearne Cotton?

  It's a gorgeous book filled with family-friendly recipes. Uh, I know because of the Oreos that myself and Honey Made went down so well, they were gorgeous. Uh, it's available right now, so you can go and get it. Again, a massive, huge, ginormous thank you to Nara and to lovely lot for listening. You're the best.

• 57:59Speaker 03

  Make a bed you can't wait to unmake. Start with Bowlin Branch's buttery soft signature sheets made with organic cotton. Only one percent of the world's cotton meets their standards of softness. Add pillows to sink into and a duvet to pull close. Save twenty-five percent sitewide at bowlinbranch.com with code BUTTERY. Bowlin Branch, magic in every moment. Exclusions apply. See site for details.

• 58:27Speaker 05

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalised AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 59:01Speaker 03

  Confidence, it's listening to your gut. It's moving forward even when the path ahead is unclear. For nearly one hundred and sixty years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises, building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future or just beginning to envision it, we're here to help. Ask a financial professional how. Pacific Life, the power of a promise. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska, and in New York. Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.

• 59:35Speaker 05

  In the market to buy a new car? You are not alone. Navy Federal Credit Union members have a helping hand. Technically, a helping globe, a mission assistant, whose mission is guiding you through your car buying journey. Offering low rates that can save you more. Your mission assistant helps you budget, estimate your payment and understand your terms so you roll into the dealership ready to negotiate on your terms. Mission Assist, everything you need to buy a car, all rolled into one. Navy Federal Credit Union, our members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Credit and collateral subject to approval.