Pod Insights Happy Place Sara Cox: I need to be left alone! How to take your holiday reading seriously About this episode Are you obsessed with finding the best books – yes, multiple – to read on holiday? Broadcaster Sara Cox is!
Welcome to The Happy Place Guide To Holidays! In this chat – brought to you by British Airways Holidays – Fearne and Sara share their thoughts on how to take your holiday reading more seriously. They natter about the joy of reading a novel set in the country you’re holidaying in, and whether the vivid descriptions of a location have inspired them to travel there themselves.
They also swap their own experiences of writing books, and reveal the beautiful locations that have informed elements of their own novels. Plus, Sara explains why she’s trying to stop writing about characters who are useless and dysfunctional in her books, and why she’s re-living her party-girl days...
You can find a list of all of Fearne and Sara’s recommended reads below!
British Airways Holidays are ATOL protected, offer a 24hr holiday helpline, and allow you to book with a low deposit. All holidays include a generous baggage allowance per person. Go to Ba.com/holidays http://Ba.com/holidays to find out more.
Fearne and Sara’s reading list:
Remarkably Bright Creatures – Shelby Van Pelt
Girls – Kirsty Capes
Memoirs of a Geisha – Arthur Golden
Butter – Asako Yuzuki
The Convenience Store Woman – Sayaka Murata
The Island – Victoria Hislop
Daisy Jones And The Six – Taylor Jenkins Reid
The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo – Taylor Jenkins Reid
Carrie Soto Is Back – Taylor Jenkins Reid
Girl On A Train – Paula Hawkins
The Compound – Aisling Rawle
Ma’am Darling – Craig Brown
Lady In Waiting – Anne Glenconner
Chocolat – Joanne Harris
The Thousand Lights Hotel - Emylia Hall
Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service.
Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.
0:28 Fearne Cotton? Hello and welcome to the Happy Place Guide to Holidays, brought to you by British Airways Holidays. I'm Fern Cotton and today I'm chatting to Sarah Cox.
0:38 Speaker 02 I think reading on holiday is so lovely because it feels like a real indulgence because you have the time when you don't at home. But I don't think that reading should be seen, I think there's a bit of, with reading, it's got a bit of a reputation like it's something you do just to relax and just, you know, that it's a bit self-indulgent, a little bit lazy, you know, during the day you're having half an hour with a good book, but I think it's so brilliant for you.
1:02 Fearne Cotton? Well, you will have gathered that this isn't an ordinary episode of the podcast. This is the Happy Place Guide to Holidays, an exclusive Happy Place mini-series brought to you by British Airways Holidays. They're all about helping you take your holidays more seriously and this series is all about putting the exciting magic back into travel. In each episode, we're having a natter about the things I and you lot, according to British Airways Holidays, love most about going on holiday. Things like discovering new cuisine, finally getting around to some lovely self-care and getting better at a hobby you never seem to have time for at home. Today is one of my favourite topics of all time: books.
1:45 Fearne Cotton? We obviously have the Happy Place Book Club here and Sarah Cox hosts the Radio 2 Book Club, so I've decided the two of us are going to join forces for today and create a sort of exclusive holiday reads book club where we just wang on about the joy of reading on holiday. In fact, I know loads of you will love this because according to a recent YouGov survey commissioned by British Airways Holidays, 47% of UK adults read more on holiday than at home. Forty-seven percent! This is going to be proper escapism. Let's do it.
2:40 Fearne Cotton? You alright Sarah Cox?
2:41 Speaker 02 Hello Fern Cotton, how are you?
2:42 Fearne Cotton? I'm really good. You've had a fun summer already, just did Camp Bestival?
2:47 Speaker 02 Just did Camp Bestival, we did a Teen Commandments Live. So I do Teen Commandments podcast and we thought we wouldn't record it, we thought we'd do a little stage show in the library tent at Camp Bestival.
2:58 Fearne Cotton? I love the library tent there.
3:00 Speaker 02 So lovely.
3:01 Fearne Cotton? I've been in there, I love it.
3:02 Speaker 02 What were you doing in there?
3:03 Fearne Cotton? I did a talk, but I actually spent most of the time just looking at books. I loved it in there.
3:08 Speaker 02 Fantastic in there. I read a story for CBeebies a couple of years ago at the festival. It was the cutest thing ever. So engaged, all these three and four year olds listening to a bedtime story. Because obviously my kids don't want them anymore.
3:22 Fearne Cotton? No.
3:23 Speaker 02 The eldest is 21, can't rock up to uni and read her a story. So we did, yeah, it was lovely. We just thought, we said whatever happens in this tent stays in this tent. And we brought our Teen Commandments pod to the stage and we did lots of silly games. Like everybody stand up, okay, sit down if you've never, well, it escalated.
3:44 Fearne Cotton? I bet.
3:45 Speaker 02 It started off with if you've never had detention at school. And it escalated to if you've never been stopped, moved on or searched by the police.
3:53 Fearne Cotton? Oh wow.
3:53 Speaker 02 Or been intimate in a graveyard.
3:55 Fearne Cotton? Oh, in a graveyard, that's niche.
3:57 Speaker 02 Not that niche Fern.
3:59 Fearne Cotton? In Dorset, not that niche.
4:01 Speaker 02 A few mums still stood up because there's nowhere else to go in the 80s when you wanted to do some heavy petting.
4:07 Fearne Cotton? Right, and it's dark, no streetlights.
4:09 Speaker 02 Bunch of flowers afterwards.
4:11 Fearne Cotton? Well, there you go.
4:13 Speaker 02 Too much, too much. So it was lovely, I did it, you know, I do the pod with my best mate Claire. She's never been to a festival.
4:19 Fearne Cotton? What?
4:20 Speaker 02 Ever in her life.
4:21 Fearne Cotton? That was her first one?
4:22 Speaker 02 First ever festival and she's on stage in a Madonna mic, being hilarious.
4:27 Fearne Cotton? Camp Bestival's probably a good initiation because it's family, it's really feel good. Rob DeBank who runs it is the nicest human ever. It's just a joy.
4:36 Speaker 02 Yeah, Rob and Josie, how long has it been going? Because I've been going about 60 years.
4:40 Fearne Cotton? A long time, a long time.
4:42 Speaker 02 It's just really well loved. It's like one of the best weekends of the year for me and the kids, so lovely.
4:47 Fearne Cotton? So feel good.
4:48 Speaker 02 We gave away some... Mini neck massages for the mums.
4:52 Fearne Cotton? Did you?
4:53 Speaker 02 As prizes. I was like, ladies, if you do win the prize, pop it in your pocket quick. Because everybody had their kids with them. And the first mum was like, woo!
5:03 Speaker 02 Get it in your pocket.
5:04 Fearne Cotton? Oh, even you saying neck massage is making me go a bit floppy.
5:07 Speaker 02 I should have brought you one.
5:08 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, I really want one so bad. But you're having a really fun summer so far. I mean, actually, going back, the last time I think we had a proper deep dive chat was at a literary festival.
5:18 Speaker 02 Yes.
5:19 Fearne Cotton? God, that feels like it was donkey's years ago. Seven months ago, eight months ago, nine months ago, 10 months ago. It was maybe at the end of summer last year. And we were both on stage together, which was such a treat.
5:29 Speaker 02 Oh, yes. I was going even way back when we were on stage for Happy Place.
5:34 Fearne Cotton? When you came on here, that was years ago.
5:35 Speaker 02 I thought you were having a funny turn. I was like, it was ages ago.
5:39 Fearne Cotton? No, that was years ago. That was in Islington, wasn't it? That was maybe four years ago.
5:45 Speaker 02 Yeah, maybe four years or so.
5:46 Fearne Cotton? But we did like a little double-headed chat. And it was so nice to do that with you.
5:51 Speaker 02 Yeah, for our novels. It was nice, wasn't it? There's definitely safety in numbers in front of a, well.
5:57 Fearne Cotton? Literary crowd.
5:58 Speaker 02 Very nice literary crowd, talking about our books.
6:01 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
6:02 Speaker 02 And then we got to sign them afterwards. That could have been awkward. I was slightly worried that everybody would be queuing up with your book.
6:09 Fearne Cotton? Oh, no, they were coming with both. It was so great. It was so good. But it was really good to talk to you about, certainly your writing process with your novels. Because obviously you've written autobiography as well. And it is such a different discipline. And it's just, it's a long, old process that I'd certainly underestimated. And at that point, we were both kind of in the middle of writing a book.
6:33 Speaker 02 The next one, yeah.
6:34 Fearne Cotton? The next one. Have you finished?
6:36 Speaker 02 I should be writing it right now, but I wanted to come and see you first. I'm on the third draft of it.
6:42 Fearne Cotton? Oh, you're progressing beautifully. And you're happy?
6:45 Speaker 02 This is the pleasant bit where there's just those little boxes to click on and it'll be a suggestion from my editor, like, would she really look at her phone at this point? Or would she, you know, and you type back either, yes, she would. I look at my phone all the time. Like, or you're like, good point. And you just slightly tweak and fix it. So it's not the sort of like, I need silence. I need everybody to leave me alone stage. It's the pleasant, as you know, the titty-vating bit, which is the fun bit.
7:13 Fearne Cotton? How exciting.
7:14 Speaker 02 What stage are you at?
7:17 Fearne Cotton? Do you wanna hear the story?
7:18 Speaker 02 Yeah, of course I do. Will it make me feel better?
7:21 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
7:21 Speaker 02 Okay, go on.
7:22 Fearne Cotton? Oh, yeah, yeah.
7:22 Speaker 02 Crack on.
7:23 Fearne Cotton? Shit show. So, was at about, I think, the same stage as you, maybe a little bit behind where you were. I was maybe halfway through writing the book at that point, or a third way through, I don't know. Anyway, maybe towards, maybe it was the start of this year, I had this epiphany about a non-fiction that I felt incredibly urgent about writing. Like, I couldn't delay it, I needed to start the next day. So I've pressed pause on that one at forty-eight thousand words.
7:55 Speaker 02 Wow, yeah.
7:57 Fearne Cotton? And I've nearly finished this non-fiction, which I'll end up publishing first. But I feel like that little half-written novel is in a very fragile state that could just be rejected forever at this point, and that scares me. Because to go back to it is like, oh, I can't remember what happened, I have to read it all.
8:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, to go back to it, it's gonna, you need to, um...
8:19 Fearne Cotton? Lost momentum.
8:20 Speaker 02 You need to go, like, you need to hire somewhere for a week.
8:23 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, a cabin in the woods.
8:25 Speaker 02 Yeah, and go there and just get reacquainted with it, rekindle the magic.
8:29 Fearne Cotton? I'm scared.
8:30 Speaker 02 It'll still be good if it's forty-eight thousand, like, it's, it's, it's half.
8:33 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, it's half.
8:35 Speaker 02 It's easily half.
8:36 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, so I...
8:38 Speaker 02 I'm excited about the non-fiction, though.
8:39 Fearne Cotton? The non-fiction, I felt...
8:41 Speaker 02 And was that the right decision, then?
8:42 Fearne Cotton? I think so, I think so. I'm still worried about this half-written novel over here. But I'm happy with what I'm writing. But I, my brain can be a bit chaotic, so I think I couldn't be ordered about it and go, no, finish this one first. I was like, I must write this one.
8:59 Speaker 02 Well, that's amazing, though. If you ever get that feeling as a writer, like, I've got to write this, I've got to get this out. I mean, you've just got to go with that one, haven't you?
9:05 Fearne Cotton? I think so.
9:06 Speaker 02 It's like the ultimate procrastination that you did. Instead of finishing that book, you're like, oh.
9:10 Fearne Cotton? Do another one.
9:11 Speaker 02 Distraught myself with another book.
9:12 Fearne Cotton? Exactly. It's all distraction. What can you tell us about the new one that's not out yet? Anything?
9:19 Speaker 02 It's a love story set over twenty years.
9:23 Fearne Cotton? Ooh.
9:24 Speaker 02 And that's kind of it, really.
9:29 Speaker 02 I wanted to try and see if I could just, it's, it's unrequited love, really.
9:33 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
9:34 Speaker 02 They can't really be together. And I just wanted to see if I could have a little play around with that and with female friendships.
9:42 Fearne Cotton? Hmm.
9:43 Speaker 02 And I'm trying to not make my men that bad. My men are so bad in the, in my books. They're all useless, dysfunctional, you know, emotionally stunted.
9:57 Fearne Cotton? There's one male character in Throne that used to stress me out so much whenever he appeared, who was the
10:04 Speaker 02 The dealer, the horrible.
10:06 Fearne Cotton? Ex-husband dealer who kept coming back and sleeping in the ki- on the sofa in the front room. And I was like, no, no, no, I don't like him.
10:12 Speaker 02 Yeah, he was great to write because he's a real baddie, a real ferretty face. I tried to get him as a little cameo in the new one, but I've had to bin him off.
10:21 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
10:22 Speaker 02 Um, the, the new one, I feel like because, because of Teen Commandments, I've been really honest and really real on air doing the podcast. And I feel like that has seeped into my writing.
10:37 Fearne Cotton? How interesting.
10:39 Speaker 02 So one of the girls is, is quite a party girl. And I had to calm that down a little bit. And my editor was like, I don't want you to frighten off your usual readers. And then she listened to some of Teen Commandments part and she was like, ah, no, I see where this has come from. You're being very real and this.
10:59 Fearne Cotton? You know, but podcasting great for that exact reason, that it's really, it feels so safe. And I don't know how you feel, but I don't believe radio feels the same. Radio's cosy and lovely and intimate with the listener, but I don't think that you can be as vulnerable and open because you're in someone's car, someone's kitchen, someone's place of work without them choosing you. You know, they're choosing the radio station, they know you're going to be there. But I think with the podcast, you find it and then you choose to take that with you. So it feels like you've got maybe a bit more room to be completely yourself and honest.
11:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like with the radio, like it's not. Hate to say it, but it's not all about me, do you know what I mean? It's about the listeners.
11:42 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
11:42 Speaker 02 And it's about popping in and making them laugh. So I'm just trying to, I'm trying to be like the hostess with the moses with the radio, where I want everyone to leave having had a great time.
11:51 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
11:52 Speaker 02 And to have made a bit of a fuss of them because they're on the way home from work or they're on the school run and they just need a little bit of loving.
11:58 Fearne Cotton? Mm.
11:59 Speaker 02 So I try and, I try and do that with the radio. And obviously with the radio, you know, you have got six year olds listening.
12:04 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
12:05 Speaker 02 And you've got, you know, great aunt Veronica who's a hundred and two listening. So you've got to balance that.
12:11 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
12:11 Speaker 02 But like you say, with, with the pod, it's, it's, they've come, they've, and we do what we want.
12:17 Fearne Cotton? Be really naughty, it's great.
12:18 Speaker 02 I mean, yeah, be something, too naughty sometimes to the point where I've got a very good friend who, who listens over it for me and he's like, uh-uh.
12:26 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, taking that out.
12:26 Speaker 02 Take that out.
12:27 Fearne Cotton? So good. It's really interesting with your, certainly your extremely long illustrious radio career, but also now your writing career. You spend a lot of time basically talking to yourself. With writing, it's you and a laptop. With radio, it's you and a mic. Yes, you know that there's listeners, yes, you know there's readers, but actually the art of it is really insular and I think with writing can be quite isolated. Do you think you work well in that way? Does that suit your natural tendencies?
12:57 Speaker 02 You know what I do actually? I feel like with, I mean, with the writing, it's difficult because there's just outside influences all the time, things that, you know, need me, teenagers, animals, husband, like jobs, life.
13:15 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
13:15 Speaker 02 And as much as I'd love to be sort of on a wind, you know, in a windswept cottage looking out over the sea on my own, I actually did, I actually did get an Airbnb for a couple of days to finish the last, hang on a minute, what was it? No, it was to finish this one. Yeah, it was to finish.
13:33 Fearne Cotton? Lovely.
13:34 Speaker 02 I did like thirteen thousand words in a weekend.
13:37 Fearne Cotton? Wow.
13:37 Speaker 02 And got the first draft in and it was amazing. Just, I just took some batch cooking with me to zap in the microwave and just get veggie chili and wrote nonstop. Just gaffitate myself to a seat because I thought otherwise this is going to take weeks.
13:52 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
13:53 Speaker 02 Slowly pulling off a plaster. So with writing, you really, you know, you need to have that sort of space and to be left alone. But with the radio, I do, I feel like it's not just me in a microphone. I do feel like I'm just there surrounded by all my mates who don't mind me showing off.
14:13 Speaker 02 My real mates would. Yeah, wind it in.
14:17 Fearne Cotton? So good. It's so fun, isn't it? I was just at Radio Two this morning and so funny because obviously loads of us from Radio One have migrated over. And it feels like the most joyful thing, walking through that corridor and going, oh, there's Grimmy on six, there's Scott.
14:35 Fearne Cotton? It's so, I love it.
14:37 Speaker 02 Truly is the sixth form of the BBC.
14:40 Fearne Cotton? In the common room. It's so fun.
14:43 Speaker 02 Do we think Radio Four is uni maybe?
14:45 Fearne Cotton? Oh my god, are we going to progress to uni one day? I missed it first time around, so I'd be quite glad to.
14:50 Speaker 02 But no, it is, it is a lovely place. And I walk past your, they've got your face all lit up in one of the corridors.
14:57 Fearne Cotton? I couldn't believe I made it. My little show is tiny, no one even knows about it. I was like, what am I doing on there? Anyway.
15:01 Speaker 02 Every day as I'm nipping to the loo, I go past your lovely face.
15:04 Fearne Cotton? Grinning. It's ridiculous. Can you read whilst you're writing? Or is that too distracting that you might pick up someone else's tone, cadence?
15:14 Speaker 02 I think somebody said to, to write, you've got to read. And so I do find, I don't find myself being intimidated by other writers anymore. Because I think that's completely pointless.
15:23 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
15:24 Speaker 02 There's always going to be so many better writers than you. You can't let that worry you. So I do keep reading. But my issue is, is that I fall asleep very quickly when I read at night.
15:38 Fearne Cotton? What, you're just like nodding?
15:39 Speaker 02 Yeah. I'm not saying I don't wake up again. Although that has improved recently because I've made some lifestyle changes.
15:47 Fearne Cotton? Like what?
15:48 Speaker 02 And now I'm asleep. I'm like an idiot, right?
15:51 Fearne Cotton? Is it sleep hygiene?
15:52 Speaker 02 Well, no, it's so basic, you're gonna laugh. It's like, I hope people aren't leaning in there like we've.
15:57 Fearne Cotton? Life changes, tell me.
15:58 Speaker 02 We've got an amazing hack here that we've never heard of before. People listening are literally gonna go, yeah, duh. So for maybe two or three years, I've been like waking up wide awake at 3am.
16:09 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
16:10 Speaker 02 And really busy brain and I'm like, is it hormonal changes? What is going on with me? Is it anxiety? Is it because I'm so busy? And then I thought, I know, why don't I knock on the head? That 4pm coffee I was having as the show began every day. And now, because that's where my brain is wired. I'm not like, you know, I'm no like militantly like midday and beyond, I'm not having any caffeine. So I'm having, you know, caffeine free tea.
16:36 Fearne Cotton? That's me.
16:37 Speaker 02 And, you know, I'll get caffeine free coffee and it's made a massive, massive difference.
16:43 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, it does, but you would think, oh, I've still got hours until bed, I'll be fine. But each bit of the day matches up to a bit of the evening. And it, because I'm a shit sleeper and I just can't drink coffee past midday. There's no way, there's no way.
16:56 Speaker 02 Well, I thought coffee woke you up, but what it does is it suppresses a natural hormone that your brain releases that is supposed to drip, drip, drip all day in your brain and fill up so that by the end of the day, you're ready for sleep.
17:09 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
17:10 Speaker 02 And when I realised that actually it was suppressing that, it just made me be a bit like, oh.
17:14 Fearne Cotton? Yes.
17:15 Speaker 02 That just doesn't feel right.
17:16 Fearne Cotton? So you knock that on the head, that's great.
17:17 Speaker 02 Yeah, so now I'm super good. But the problem is, is that I am reading and I prop up my Kindle and it's dark and I will do like three or four pages if that.
17:28 Fearne Cotton? Really? God, that's so great. But it is the ultimate way to switch off because you're escaping. I love, especially reading fiction.
17:35 Speaker 02 Yeah.
17:35 Fearne Cotton? Because you can just check out of all the shit you've done that day, the worries you've got, and you're in someone else's world. It is just a joy. Do you like reading on holiday?
17:44 Speaker 02 I love reading on holiday.
17:46 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
17:46 Speaker 02 And I love my Kindle because I can just take, it's obviously much lighter than taking actual books. When I used to go on holiday when I was like twenty, I would be taking like four or five books with me. Yeah, well, actual physical books.
18:00 Fearne Cotton? Actual books. I've got something about, I like holding a book, I love the cover, I love. Do you know what I love doing is buying a book at the airport. I like buying anything at the airport. Buying things at the airport is so much more fun than buying things in the shop.
18:15 Speaker 02 See.
18:15 Fearne Cotton? I love it.
18:16 Speaker 02 I'm weird with that. I don't really like getting to the airport and not having a plan for what I'm gonna be reading on holiday. It freaks me out a little bit.
18:22 Fearne Cotton? I will have a one book ready.
18:24 Speaker 02 Books packed and then treat yourself at the airport.
18:27 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, I'm going, I've got a route. I'm going Boots, I'm going W H Smith, I'm going Pret. I've got a little route that I'm doing through Terminal Five.
18:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:35 Fearne Cotton? I'm getting myself a new book.
18:36 Speaker 02 Absolutely. That big Pret, I know the exact one.
18:39 Fearne Cotton? I get to the airport so early.
18:41 Speaker 02 Sometimes, yeah.
18:41 Fearne Cotton? I get there so early, like so early that they're barely letting me check in. I wanna be there, so I'm like in a shopping mall and I'm enjoying that. That's where my holiday begins.
18:51 Speaker 02 That's what we do. We get there to Terminal Five about two and a half hours before the flight and then you're through. The kids are like, really?
19:00 Fearne Cotton? Why are we here?
19:00 Speaker 02 Yes, come on.
19:02 Fearne Cotton? So fun.
19:03 Speaker 02 Let's go shopping.
19:04 Fearne Cotton? Let's go shopping. Where do you like to read when you're on holiday? Are you beach, pool, balcony? Where's the location?
19:10 Speaker 02 Anywhere really.
19:11 Fearne Cotton? Not bothered.
19:11 Speaker 02 Often by the pool. I can't understand people who, no judgement, but people who watch something by the pool. I just don't really get it. I wanna read. And I think, I think reading on holiday is so lovely because it feels like a real indulgence. Because you have the time when you don't at home. And, but I don't think that reading should be seen. I think there's a bit of, with reading, it's got a bit of a reputation, like it's something you do just to relax. And just, you know, that it's a bit self-indulgent, a little bit lazy, you know, during the day, you're having half an hour with a good book. But I think it's so brilliant for you. I think we need to reframe it as like an important part of your day to do a bit of reading.
19:50 Fearne Cotton? Oh my god, without a doubt. I mean, I personally, I don't mind if I'm reading fiction, non-fiction. But I know there are multiple reasons why I'm doing it. One is because I've always got a bit of an insecurity that I didn't go to university. And I've had to sort of teach myself a lot of stuff. So as long as I'm learning, I'm happy. I don't care if I'm learning. Through the medium of reading fiction, so I'm just picking up, oh, that's a lovely way of describing something. Or I'm reading a factual book where I am imbibing information and taking it on board. But equally, I want the escapism. It stops me from being a hyperactive fidget, which is my natural tendency. It slows everything down. I think it helps focus my brain. There's just, there's so many pluses to reading. What, what's the benefit, do you think, for you?
20:35 Speaker 02 I think all of that, and I didn't go to uni either, so I'm exactly, I, I'm the same where I'm like, oh, I don't, I wouldn't mind just sort of learning and.
20:42 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
20:43 Speaker 02 You know, picking stuff up. I love, um. I love when you're excited about a book.
20:50 Fearne Cotton? Oh, me too.
20:51 Speaker 02 Where you're thinking, can I take my Kindle to lunch, even though I like, you know.
20:55 Fearne Cotton? Or walk whilst you're reading.
20:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, well, you can't wait to get back to it. And for me, that's quite rare, to be honest, because we, we did Between the Covers, which I had to read. Twelve books per series for that and pretty quickly.
21:06 Fearne Cotton? That's a lot.
21:07 Speaker 02 When you're reading for work is a completely different vibe, isn't it? So much so that when we'd finished that series, I'd be like, I wouldn't, you know. It really got me in the habit of reading, which is good, but I'd be so excited about choosing what to read. And I love the feeling of just being like, oh my god, I can't wait to get back to that book. And I had a, a holiday, we went to Italy for a week and I just, I had like the two perfect books. That I read that were perfect, so I had a holiday reading.
21:32 Fearne Cotton? What were they?
21:33 Speaker 02 Um, so this book was absolutely huge. So on my recent holiday, I read Remarkably Bright Creatures by Shelby Van Pelt.
21:40 Fearne Cotton? Right.
21:40 Speaker 02 And it is perfect. When people say it was a perfect holiday read, I feel like sometimes that can feel a bit snippity. But it's not, it's a huge compliment, because it's when your brain is the most relaxed, when you're open to new ideas. And so this is told from the point of view. Of a widow who is a cleaner at an aquarium in Washington. And she makes friends with one of the exhibits, which is an octopus. And that's a remarkably bright creature. And there's a few chapters, now go with it, from the point of view of the octopus.
22:14 Fearne Cotton? Love.
22:14 Speaker 02 Yeah, are you there?
22:15 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
22:15 Speaker 02 Because some people, some people are like, no.
22:17 Fearne Cotton? Oh, no, no, the weirder the better.
22:19 Speaker 02 But, and, and it's absolutely beautiful. And it's about this woman and about, there's a mystery around her son, how he died. And there's loads of incredible characters in it. And it's laugh out loud funny, which for me is really rare. I don't often laugh out loud when I'm reading a book.
22:35 Fearne Cotton? No, I don't.
22:36 Speaker 02 But it's a beautiful book. Uh, so there was that. And then I went on to The Girls by Kirsty Capes, which is um about two sisters and a road trip.
22:48 Fearne Cotton? Oh, I like the sound of that already.
22:50 Speaker 02 Yes, and they have a really dysfunctional past. They had um a really celebrated artist for a mom who's now died. And they had a terrible upbringing and the mom was an addict and was, they had a really, really tough time. And they were estranged and then they came back together after the mom died and they go on this road trip. They're on a bit of a mission. And it's the first time where I was reading it thinking, oh, I've never been that far to about the Grand Canyon.
23:16 Fearne Cotton? Oh, I wanna go there.
23:17 Speaker 02 But now I'm like, the way Kirsty Capes describes it, I'm like, oh, I wanna go there.
23:22 Fearne Cotton? I wanna go, I've never been.
23:23 Speaker 02 Just this void, apparently your brain just can't take it in, like how massive, incredible it is.
23:29 Fearne Cotton? Wow.
23:30 Speaker 02 Should we try and get someone to pay us to go together?
23:32 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, why don't we recreate the book?
23:34 Speaker 02 Yes, good.
23:35 Fearne Cotton? We'll do like a documentary version of it. Have you ever been somewhere much like this, inspired by reading about a location in a book?
23:43 Speaker 02 So, well, I've been to Japan very recently with the kids and obviously like everybody else in, was it the late nineties? I read Memoirs of a Geisha.
23:51 Fearne Cotton? Brilliant book.
23:51 Speaker 02 Of course, and then more recently Butter.
23:54 Fearne Cotton? I haven't read that, you know, I've heard a lot about it.
23:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, Butter's a great book, so I read that for between the covers. And the thing is with that show was that I'd often read some books that weren't really for me, but obviously I'd have to. I'd read every word because I'm so paranoid to be caught.
24:07 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, yeah.
24:09 Speaker 02 And so I, but I absolutely loved Butter. And also, one I heard about through that show, one of our guests recommended it, was The Convenience Store Woman, which is a tiny book, Sayaka Murata. But it's all, all three sort of straddle Japanese culture. So, you know, especially with Butter more recently, my eldest read Butter whilst we were in Japan.
24:34 Fearne Cotton? Oh, wow.
24:35 Speaker 02 And that's just, you know, it, it's about a serial killer and a journalist, Butter, and it's fantastic. But there's one bit that just, the, the way she describes food, because the serial killer is a bit of a gourmet cook. So then to go to Japan and eat all the food that she's talking about, then the butter was amazing. Um, and there's one thing where she has hot rice, just steamed hot rice with some fridge cold butter. Just a little chunk of that.
25:01 Fearne Cotton? I can taste it.
25:02 Speaker 02 Oh my god, I did it at home and it was amazing.
25:04 Fearne Cotton? There's something so beautiful about well-written food scenes. I probably love nothing more.
25:12 Speaker 02 Yeah.
25:12 Fearne Cotton? And I'm instantly hungry and I, or I want a cold glass of wine, like all the descriptive words used around food. Especially on holiday, especially when it's a cuisine local to that area. I read this lovely novel, it was yonks ago now, called The Thousand Lights Hotel.
25:29 Speaker 02 Yeah.
25:29 Fearne Cotton? And it's set in Elba, an island off of Italy. And I just felt like I was there every time I opened the book. I was just like, I want to be at that hotel. I can vividly imagine it. The pasta they were eating, the wine they were drinking. It's like, oh, I just want to go to Italy now.
25:47 Speaker 02 I mean.
25:47 Fearne Cotton? Desperately.
25:49 Speaker 02 I managed to eat my way all around Italy when we went there for our twentieth anniversary, me and Ben. And it was just, you go to these quite chatty, ordinary-looking restaurants.
25:58 Fearne Cotton? The best.
25:59 Speaker 02 And the food's just incredible, because it's just simple ingredients, so lovely. Another book, I mean, Victoria, this is such a cliche, but, but The Island by Victoria Hislop. Is set in Elunda in Crete and across.
26:15 Speaker 02 The way is Spinalonga, which was the leper colony that the book, The Love Story is set on. And so I did read that book while sitting on my balcony.
26:25 Fearne Cotton? Oh, wow.
26:25 Speaker 02 Looking across the water at the island of Spinalonga. Yeah.
26:29 Fearne Cotton? I love that.
26:30 Speaker 02 And I completely, that's the, that's the most intense sort of boiled down I've ever done, like the book, the place, the vibe. I was literally looking up, looking at Spinalonga.
26:39 Fearne Cotton? Oh my god, that's amazing.
26:40 Speaker 02 Many people have gone before and after me, done that. I mean, when you go to Crete, like Victoria Hislop, I think she's got like the key to the island or whatever it is. She's just an absolute queen there because she's brought so much tourists, especially to Spinalonga. I mean, I went over there on the ferry to look around and I wanted to sort of wander around and imagine myself in The Love Story, but the kids were quite young then, so I was like dragging like a three.
27:04 Speaker 02 Three year old, a five year old and a nine year old round on a boiling day.
27:08 Fearne Cotton? I love it.
27:09 Speaker 02 Just slapping factor sixty on them.
27:10 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, classic holiday stuff going on. I love nothing more than reading a book about a place you're in. I remember it wasn't fiction, but reading Bill Bryson's travel book around Australia whilst I was there when I was maybe nineteen, twenty. And there is something quite magical about reading the description of it, being in the place, noticing things you actually probably wouldn't see otherwise, unless there'd been. You know, someone else pointing it out beforehand. There's something so magical about that. I really want to go back to LA, having now read Daisy Jones and the Six twice. Because I loved it so much. I mean, it would require me time travelling also back to the seventies, but just to walk around some of those streets. And Chateau Marmont and expecting to see Daisy Jones walk out.
27:54 Speaker 02 That is the book that the most people have told me to read because I've not read it. No. I've interviewed her about her latest one.
28:02 Fearne Cotton? Oh, Atmosphere. Yeah, that's on my bedside. I'm desperate. I've read all of her books. I'm a massive, massive Taylor Jenkins Reid fan.
28:08 Speaker 02 I mean, she's just so, she's just signed like a multi, multi, multi million pound deal. She's hugely popular, but yeah, Daisy Jones and the Six is the one I've got her.
28:16 Fearne Cotton? Are you good at reading typed books?
28:18 Speaker 02 What is it, the seven?
28:18 Fearne Cotton? Oh, yeah, the seven husbands of Eva and Hugo.
28:20 Speaker 02 And I really enjoyed that. That's her, isn't it? Yeah.
28:23 Fearne Cotton? Yeah. And then there was another one. Oh, the Malibu Rising, that's really good.
28:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's the only one of hers that I've read, so I feel like I should.
28:31 Fearne Cotton? Daisy Jones, I, and also Carrie Soto, which is about tennis, I loved that book, and I know nothing about tennis, but she brought the characters to life, the love story to life, it's so, so brilliant, she's very clever. Are you good at like hyped books? Because sometimes I think, oh, everyone's telling me to read this book, I don't want to read it, it puts me off.
28:47 Speaker 02 Yeah, I'm, I'm a bit like that, I'm like, it's gonna be a disappointment, obviously, it's like anything, like movies or anything, you're just like, oh no, it's not for me then, it's just too, it's too much. There have been ones where I've read it and I'm like, oh yeah, that's pretty good, like Girl, uh, Girl on the Train.
29:02 Fearne Cotton? Oh, a great book.
29:03 Speaker 02 Yeah, great.
29:04 Fearne Cotton? There's some undeniable classics.
29:05 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. And then there's lots of sort of like the big book of the summer, I mean, I'm reading The Compound at the moment, by Ashling Roll, who we had on Radio Two on the Book Club Pod, and it's, it's been billed as somewhere between Love Island and Lord of the Flies. So they're in the middle of the desert and they're in a sort of villa, but it's much more brutal than Love Island.
29:27 Fearne Cotton? Whoa.
29:28 Speaker 02 So that hooked me in, but it's hard because, because I do snooze off, I mean, especially when you're on holiday as well and you're in the sunshine.
29:36 Fearne Cotton? You've had a sangria.
29:36 Speaker 02 And you've had a sangria, such a treat. Try to stay awake for these books, you know. So I'll, I'll often have like a, an autobiography on the go or a biography on the go.
29:46 Fearne Cotton? I love an autobiography.
29:47 Speaker 02 Because I feel like with reading, it should be, especially when you're away on holiday, you should be like, what am I in the mood for? You know, like you do with, with TV, like where you'll look around, you know, all different programmes, if you, whether you want a documentary or you want.
30:01 Fearne Cotton? But holidays are when you throw yourself off of your normal routine, so you're like, what do I really want to eat, rather than what's in the fridge? What do I really want to read, rather than, oh, I've started this book, so I should finish it. It's sort of the place where you can have that kind of freedom, I think.
30:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, and it's nice just to, some days I'm like, mm, I fancy a bit of non-fiction. Reading a great book called,
30:24 Speaker 02 Mam Darling, which randomly is about Princess Margaret.
30:28 Fearne Cotton? I've read it.
30:28 Speaker 02 Oh my god.
30:29 Fearne Cotton? It's so brilliant.
30:29 Speaker 02 It's amazing, isn't it?
30:30 Fearne Cotton? And there's like fictional bits and factual bits in it, it's so intriguing.
30:34 Speaker 02 But the, some of the fictional bits I didn't realise were fictional.
30:37 Fearne Cotton? Oh, and you thought they were real?
30:38 Speaker 02 I asked my father-in-law, like, over lunch, I was like, did Princess Margaret marry Picasso?
30:45 Speaker 02 And in my brain, I was like, that wasn't in The Crown. That would have been a great bit in The Crown.
30:49 Fearne Cotton? Oh, it's such a good book.
30:50 Speaker 02 And he was like, no, you idiot, it's a great book, isn't it?
30:52 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, she's just the most intriguing historical figure.
30:56 Speaker 02 Absolute nightmare badass.
30:58 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, exactly. Legendary nightmare.
31:01 Speaker 02 Literally like just tapping her ciggy ash on people's own stretched palms and stuff. I love it.
31:06 Fearne Cotton? So good. Have you read, oh, I can't remember the name of it now. The book that's by the, she's still alive today. Her husband basically invented Mustique. He kind of put it on the map. She's a lady, Lady Glen.
31:19 Speaker 02 She a lady waiting or something?
31:20 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, Lady Glen, Glencoma, have I made that up?
31:24 Speaker 02 I know, I think I know, yeah, I think I know what you mean. Was she a lady?
31:28 Fearne Cotton? She was best friends with Princess Margaret.
31:29 Speaker 02 Yeah, okay.
31:30 Fearne Cotton? So we used to go to Mustique together and have all these fabulous holidays and and she had all the stories and the gossip and that was her brilliant book.
31:40 Speaker 02 I know the book you mean. I think I remember.
31:41 Fearne Cotton? I think she's Lady Glencoma, I think, but we'll, we'll double check on that one. But I love that one. There's, you know, unearthed facts about people that we know and you get a deeper dive on them.
31:51 Speaker 02 Yeah, there's loads of like diary entries from people at the time, from different sort of artists and musicians and society people. It's fantastic.
31:58 Fearne Cotton? So fun.
31:59 Speaker 02 So random.
32:00 Fearne Cotton? Have you been to a place on a holiday that you've thought, in a novel in the future, in one of your own fictions, I'm going to weave this place in? Because I did that, I've only obviously written one fiction. But I've got a real soft spot for Lulworth Cove in Dorset. And I love going there. It's my happy place. And I just thought, that has to be in there. I don't know how yet, but I'm going to describe every inch of the walk from the car park to the cove. And I loved writing that bit because I know it so well, it's so well trodden for me, that I could picture the colour of the boys in the sea, the boat and how distressed it was. And I just loved describing it because I know it and I love it so much. Have you done that or are you planning to do that?
32:43 Speaker 02 Well, in Wayback where the main character Josie goes back to her childhood farm. Very much sort of all the little country lanes are just all the lanes that are on one side of my dad's actual farm in real life. So just the hawthorn bushes and the way that they bloom in in sort of spring and summer. That's that and also where I ride my horse now, like this morning where I ride, all the blackberry bushes are coming out. And if, you know, as I'm riding past sometimes when they get quite ripe, I do nick a blackberry.
33:18 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, too ripe.
33:19 Speaker 02 Off the high ones, obviously, because I'm on a horse can get quite high up because no dogs have peed on those ones, clearly. So I feel like in way back I really could indulge in just those windy lanes, especially where the trees meet overhead. And that, we used to holiday in the south of France, but we'd go on the coach, we'd go on a coach, which would take like.
33:39 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, we used to drive there, nightmare.
33:41 Speaker 02 Forever.
33:42 Fearne Cotton? Hours.
33:43 Speaker 02 It felt like you were like two days on holiday and then like another six days to get home and then get the ferry and all. So, but I remember whenever now I'm driving along a country lane and that is my happy place if the trees have met up above and you're just under the canopy with the sun sort of dappling through. You'll get that in Devon occasionally. And I just love that kind of, so I love, I really enjoy writing that kind of.
34:07 Fearne Cotton? Do you know what, you've just sparked a memory actually of a book where perhaps, because I don't think I'd maybe been to anywhere quite as French as this, was reading Chocolat back in the day.
34:17 Speaker 02 Ooh.
34:18 Fearne Cotton? And thinking, oh my god, I want to go to that little town in France, I can picture every bit of it. And then they did the film adaptation, I was like, they've nailed it. That's exactly what I was imagining, that like quintessentially, you know, this beautiful French cobbled stone.
34:33 Speaker 02 Gorgeous.
34:34 Fearne Cotton? Village, oh.
34:35 Speaker 02 So my in-laws used to have a place in the south of France in Saint Paul de Vence, which was very beautiful. We would land at Nice and we'd drive up to their house. They sold it a few years ago, I was absolutely fuming. How dare you. But we had so many lovely holiday and I was allowed to go there with my girl pals as well. Once a year and it was beautiful and we would go and St Paul is really an old cobbledy town upon a hill, beautiful. And the column door is there where Picasso used to like knock out a little etching in return for, you know, some snails or something.
35:12 Fearne Cotton? Gonna weave that into one of your future books.
35:14 Speaker 02 I would love to get that into my, into a book. I'm also thinking of a place that I wanna travel to so that I can.
35:21 Fearne Cotton? Do the research.
35:21 Speaker 02 So I can do the research.
35:23 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, research trip.
35:24 Speaker 02 Come on, maybe a girl from the north who finds out she's got relatives in Barbados maybe. Is that a stretch?
35:31 Fearne Cotton? No, completely fine. Long lost cousin or something.
35:36 Speaker 02 Yeah, absolutely.
35:37 Fearne Cotton? Happens to dwell in Jamaica.
35:39 Speaker 02 Needs to go to Jamaica for a month.
35:41 Fearne Cotton? For a month.
35:41 Speaker 02 That'd be nice.
35:43 Fearne Cotton? It's gotta be done. Apart from riding your horse through a sun dappled archway of trees, where is your holiday happy place?
35:51 Speaker 02 Tell you what, our holiday happy place without doubt is Switzerland.
35:55 Fearne Cotton? Ooh, how come? Tell me about Switzerland.
35:58 Speaker 02 Well, my lovely husband Ben, or husband, as they call him, he, he doesn't really like very hot weather.
36:05 Fearne Cotton? Oh, that's a shame.
36:07 Speaker 02 He likes the weather to be a bit more bearable.
36:09 Fearne Cotton? Okay.
36:09 Speaker 02 And that's what you'll get in Switzerland in the summer. It'll be sort of like twenty four, twenty five and breezy. We are hiking. So you go to basically what are ski resorts in the winter. You go there in the summer and you get the, the vernicula up the mountain. And the teens are a great age now for, for walking. They're not like, my legs are tired, could you carry me?
36:32 Fearne Cotton? I'm at that stage still, yeah.
36:33 Speaker 02 So yeah, you're still.
36:34 Fearne Cotton? Don't wanna walk, don't wanna.
36:35 Speaker 02 What are we walking for? But no, they're kind of quite into it. You know, we will get up the mountain and then we will pootle down the mountain and it's beautiful and green and lush and the people are lovely. We did two, we stayed in two different places. We stayed on the French side and the German side. We slightly preferred the French side. We preferred the sort of food there and the vibe. But yeah, we love Switzerland and we went. We went, uh, two years on the trot and nearly, nearly a third. I mean, my son would be like, go every year if he could. He absolutely loves it. But you think, there's so many incredible places to go to. You've got to try and see as many as possible, especially after Japan. We, we now want to do trips.
37:17 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
37:18 Speaker 02 So, you know, where we've got a plan and we've got a bit of a route and there's a bit of a tour going on.
37:23 Fearne Cotton? Your kids are a good age to do that. I think they need to all be kind of independent, not moaning about every little thing.
37:30 Speaker 02 They've got to be able to carry their own bags.
37:32 Fearne Cotton? Yes.
37:33 Speaker 02 And to be able to, you know, be responsible for like, you know, and actually, my son was brilliant in Japan because we're trying to work out the bullet trains, getting on the Shinkansen line. It was incredible.
37:45 Fearne Cotton? So fun.
37:47 Speaker 02 And he, when it got a bit much of a husband where he felt responsible for being like the sort of scout leader, like, follow me. This is the way. We said to our son, like, okay, your group leader today. And he absolutely loved it. So I think it's great for kids just to have that bit of control and, you know, being in, he was just in charge of the day, leading us to the right platform and stuff.
38:06 Fearne Cotton? So sweet.
38:06 Speaker 02 So yeah, trips as a family now. So now I'm thinking South America.
38:10 Fearne Cotton? Yes.
38:11 Speaker 02 You know, going exploring. Yes, yes. All of that. They're a great age for it.
38:17 Fearne Cotton? Great age. Well, I've written down so many books that I know I need to read during my summer holidays. I'm so, so excited to get stuck in some of these. We need to do more regular book swaps, I think.
38:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, definitely.
38:28 Fearne Cotton? To like tip each other off about things that we've loved. I think we've got similar taste in certainly fiction.
38:32 Speaker 02 And can we put them in the show notes as well? Would be a nice idea.
38:35 Fearne Cotton? We'll put them in the show notes so people can get the authors and descriptions because I think we're all keen.
38:39 Speaker 02 Because you came up with a few crackers.
38:41 Fearne Cotton? Well, we're just keen to cut through the, there's so many books out there. And I think you know what you like. You just need someone to tell you, if this is your genre, if this is what you're into, this is what you need to read on your holidays.
38:51 Speaker 02 Absolutely.
38:52 Fearne Cotton? You don't want to mess around on holiday with a book you don't like. No point. No point. Um, Coxy, you're an absolute legend. We love you. Thank you so much for coming on Happy Place again.
39:02 Speaker 02 Thanks for having me. It's been gorgeous.
39:04 Fearne Cotton? I love that. Do you know what? I love talking about books so much and I love Sarah Cox so much that that chat, potentially and realistically, could have gone on for five hours? Six hours? If I were to get stuck in the lift on the way down from the studio to the street level with Sarah, I would be fine. I mean, we would just keep on with that conversation for many, many hours. Me noting down book recommendations in my little nerdy notepad. That was fun. If you want help taking your holidays more seriously, then you know where to go. British Airways Holidays allows you to book with a low deposit and pay off your holiday in flexible instalments.
39:44 Fearne Cotton? They offer a 24-hour holiday helpline and all holidays include a generous baggage allowance per person. What's more, all British Airways Holidays are at all protected, so they've got you well and truly covered. Right, that's it for this mini-series. I have loved recording it, so a huge thanks to British Airways Holidays for making it happen and to, of course, my wonderful guests, Sarah Cox, Tess Daly, Richard E. Grant and Clara Ampfo, plus producer Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios. But most of all, thanks to you lot for listening. I hope these episodes have made you think a little more about holidays and the important role they can play in our lives, whatever they look like and whatever you might be into.
40:28 Fearne Cotton? I hope you all have a fantastic time away on your next break. Big love.
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