DANIEL MAYS: I've Worked with Hollywood’s Biggest Stars But I Still Sometimes Feel Like an Imposter

Daniel Mays has been in our living rooms for decades. From EastEnders and Line of Duty to Mrs Biggs and Thursday Murder Club, he’s become one of the most familiar and loved faces in British TV and film. But long before he shared the screen with the likes of Michael Douglas and Stephen Graham, Daniel was the middle child in a working-class Essex family, desperate to be seen and heard. He found his voice through performing and never looked back. In this conversation, Danny shares: Growing up in Essex with dreams of becoming an actor Why he nearly didn't go to stage schoolThe unforgettable advice Michael Douglas gave him Taking on the role of the 'Black Cab R*pist' John Worboys and how it affected himWhat it was like performing in front of Daniel Day Lewis Daniel was a joy to talk to and he’s a reminder of what's possible when you back yourself and never let go of the dream. Daniel Mays is Great Company. Watch ‘Believe Me’ on ITV HERE https://www.itv.com/watch/believe-me/10a0144 Check out Daniel’s new podcast ‘Gangster Presents: The Story of Ronnie Biggs’ HERE https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p09dj358 If you enjoyed the show, you can also follow us: Instagram-@greatcompanypodcast https://www.instagram.com/greatcompanypodcast/# TikTok -@greatcompanypodcast https://open.acast.com/networks/611e511b4ec6dc00134bced2/shows/65d737dfdc02e00016c413b2/episodes/www.tiktok.com/@greatcompanypodcast Jamie -@jamielaing https://www.instagram.com/jamielaing/?hl=en-gb And if you've got thoughts, questions and comments, you can email us at: [email protected] THE CREDITS Producer: Helen Burke Assistant Producer: Issy Weeks-Hankins Video: Jake Ji Senior Social Media Manager: Laura Coughlan Audio: Rafi Amsili Geovannetti Executive Producer: Ewan Newbigging-Lister Great Company is an original podcast from JamPot. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Going from being an Essex boy with your brothers playing football to suddenly going, doing jazz and wearing a leotard. Those are two separate worlds colliding.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Literally head off. It felt like I was leaving that life that I'd known.

• 0:13Speaker 00

  How old were you at that point?

• 0:14Speaker 01

  I was like 13.

• 0:15Speaker 00

  It's young, isn't it?

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was terrified when I first went to RADA.

• 0:18Speaker 00

  Really?

• 0:19Speaker 01

  Honest to God, I was like, I just sort of clammed up and I thought, I'm way out of my depth here. Feeling just so in fear and that imposter syndrome was kicking in. Hi, I'm Danny Mays and I'm in Great Company.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Danny Mays! I got nominated for a BAFTA for line of duty. When they say someone else's name, there's a camera pointed at you right at that moment. You're like, where do I look? Like, and then you just have to go, "Well done, Tom!"

• 0:50Speaker 00

  And what's one role you missed out on?

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Oh, the casting director walked me down the corridor to the lift. I remember the door shutting like that, you were wonderful, just really great. I didn't end up getting it. It's a harrowing story.

• 1:05Speaker 00

  It's a heavy role.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  It's a heavy role. One of Britain's worst ever sexual predators. Nicknamed the Black Cab Rapist. I underestimated it.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  And I heard that you had to take some counselling afterwards.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it was just very isolating. And again, I was like, I don't need to talk to a counsellor. And, um, but I ended up talking to the counsellor and it was really invaluable. Because I'll tell you what it was, Jamie. Our daughter is 13 now. As a parent, it absolutely terrified me.

• 1:31Speaker 00

  Guys, welcome back. Really excited for today's show because we have Daniel Mays on, one of UK's greatest actors. When you see his face, you know exactly who he is. Today's episode, we talk about the industry, we talk about acting, we talk about his life. We go everywhere, all over the place, including his newest role, which is, um, harrowing for so many reasons. Now, if you haven't yet subscribed to our show, if you could, you could join the community of incredible people. It's completely free and also it helps us keep getting better guests, keep making the show better for you every single week. If you can do that one thing, thank you so much. Okay, enjoy this insane episode of Great Company with Daniel Mays.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  You're not sure I have cameras here, are you?

• 2:09Speaker 00

  You must be used to this many cameras, eh, come on?

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Um, when I was on EastEnders, yeah, when I did four, that's multi cameras, isn't it, on soaps?

• 2:18Speaker 00

  Um. Is it?

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. That's the first thing I did was four episodes on EastEnders and it was like, I think it was like three cameras filming you at once and you get like two takes if you're lucky. It was like a ba-

• 2:29Speaker 00

  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow that down. You're kidding me. So you go two takes, that's it?

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Pretty much. It was like a baptism of fire. It was just insane. Like, that's, I have absolute admiration for soap actors because they do all the homework.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  You know, on their own and they come and they go, right, okay, here you go. You got, like, that's right. You got the dialogue in the right way. You didn't bump into the furniture. Move on.

• 2:53Speaker 00

  Wait, so it's-

• 2:53Speaker 01

  It was really quick.

• 2:54Speaker 00

  Because you were, you were Kevin in EastEnders.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Kevin.

• 2:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, so you were Kevin in EastEnders.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  I was Cat Slater's ex-boyfriend who chose, when they first landed in Albert Square, I was her boyfriend and she didn't tell me that she'd moved there. So he turns up and he chains himself to the gate. He jumps on top of the taxi. He has the bedpan thrown over him.

• 3:14Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  I mean, it was cla- it was-

• 3:16Speaker 00

  A bit extreme.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  It was comedy gold. It was, that was my first gig though, could you imagine?

• 3:21Speaker 00

  So you, that's fresh out of Rudder?

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I didn't work for six months. I couldn't, I literally couldn't get arrested and I was like, what do I do now? I've got all my eggs in one basket and I was just thankful that I got a part, you know, and it was Julia Cramsey was the casting director. And it was four episodes and there I was, my first professional scene, uh, coming out of drama was, uh, drama school was, um, with Thames and Alfred in The Queen Vic. It's just, it's just surreal, you know?

• 3:47Speaker 00

  It's bonkers.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. But I was like, I didn't want to get typecast, you know? I didn't want to get bogged down in that.

• 3:54Speaker 00

  You knew that from a very early, like, age. So you did, you, from when you first started, you were like, I don't want to be typecast. I don't want to be-

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And then like Julia Cramsey then got me my next job, which was like a neo-Nazi bomber on this thing called In Deep with Nick Berry and Steve Tompkinson. And I was like, I don't want to be typecast.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  I don't want to be typecast. Yeah.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  But she was great. I mean, oh god, I owe so much to Julia Crampsey. I mean, where would I be without her? She was amazing. So she saw something in me. That's what you need. Like, young actors always say you've got to, you know, get casting directors on your side. Get someone fighting in your corner that believes in you and it all starts to happen.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Danny, so that's really good advice because what I always want from like a show like this, right, is for like someone listening who's such a big fan of yours, right?

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  Who perhaps is like from the same place you grew up or in the industry or whatever it is. That advice of saying, have someone in your corner, really for you. But how do you find that person? How did you find that person?

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Um, you, they just sort of circle around you, you know, you. I did three years at drama school and it's like, you, you never know like who's sort of watching you. There'll be like a producer or a director or a casting director that's seen you in a production or you just, you've always got to have that mentality that, you know, every job is worthwhile. Give it a hundred and ten percent with everything you do and work will breed work. I always remember when I did, um, this just brings to mind was, I did like this movie nineteen seventeen.

• 5:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  And, um.

• 5:20Speaker 00

  Great movie.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  It was a great movie, wonderful film. Um, and all these actors were in it, like Mark Strong and Benedict Cumberbatch. And we all had kind of like one or two scenes.

• 5:28Speaker 00

  Was it the one shot?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  It was all like one shot. It wasn't actually one shot. It wasn't, um.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  They lied to me.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  It wasn't like an episode of Adolescence. They did lie to you. There was editing here and there. Um, but.

• 5:40Speaker 00

  Stephen Graham loves a one shot.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  He does. Stephen Graham is the one shot king. But it was, it was, um, I was just playing like this sergeant in it. And I always remember like, we filmed it on Salisbury Plain and like, I'd never met Sam Mendes before and they were like, obviously Sam wants to say hello, talk a bit about the character. I was like, yeah, great, fine, brilliant. I'd love to meet him, see if we can do this movie together. And I sat down in his trailer and he says, great to meet you, Danny. I saw you at the Donmar Warehouse. I saw you at the National. And I was completely unaware that he'd was there in the audience. And I thought, you know, you just never know.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  That's really good advice.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:18Speaker 00

  There's a, there's a great saying, which is your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room, right?

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's great.

• 6:23Speaker 00

  Which is where you have to, basically, you, doesn't matter, whatever you do, you always give a hundred percent. If you're in a room with people, you be kind. If you, cause you, you never know who's gonna be anywhere.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  Be nice to everyone on the way out, cause you never know who you meet on the way down.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Well, it's like, you know, you can do a short film with a director that, uh, has amazing potential. You never know where that person's gonna end up and it's, there's, I always think there's always merit in every project that you commit to. Um, within reason. No, if it's, no, but do you know what I'm saying?

• 6:53Speaker 00

  So what is the one that you've committed to that was?

• 6:57Speaker 00

  But you grew up in Essex, right?

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, Buckhurst Hill.

• 7:02Speaker 00

  Okay, so what was family life like?

• 7:04Speaker 01

  It was great. I mean, um, I'm one of four boys, two older brothers, one younger, uh. You know, no, no girls in the family, only mum, so it was, it was loud, it was boisterous, it was sports mad. But incredibly loving. It was, um, I'm blessed that I had a, you know, parents that were really kind of supportive. You know, my dad is still an electrician to this day. My mum was a banker, sure. You know, so, um, sort of working class family as such, really. And, um, you know, they sacrificed a hell of a lot. In me pursuing the dream that I wanted to be an actor, you know, um. My older brother, one's a cricket groundsman, Johnny's like works in waste disposal.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  My younger brother is, is a money broker in the city at Canary Wharf. So, um.

• 7:54Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  We all do kind of completely different things. But we were all great at sport, like my daughter, we're all great footballers.

• 8:01Speaker 00

  Were you good?

• 8:02Speaker 01

  I was good. I was, I know I was captain of my Sunday league team, Loughton Boys.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  I should just throw in that I was captain, didn't I?

• 8:12Speaker 00

  Do you know what I do? I still, people ask me, I go, I still hold the javelin record at my school. And you know what? I still check the record at my school to see if it's been beaten. For some reason that, like, I was captain as well of football.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, but when you're a kid, you think you're great, right? And, um, I was never as good as my, my brothers.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  Were they very good?

• 8:31Speaker 01

  They were good. I mean, they had like trials for district football and all that sort of stuff. But it was that thing of like middle child syndrome of wanting to try something. Different in order to be heard and recognised. Cause it's a sort of, you know, we didn't have a huge house or anything. So it was, we were all crammed in that house in Essex. And you're sort of fighting to sort of be recognised and heard. So the acting thing was sort of completely left field, really.

• 8:58Speaker 00

  It's funny how that happens with middle child. I'm middle child as well.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  I don't know about it for you, but for me, like, I remember like thinking about entertainment and like being on stage or being in movies or being in theatre plays at school.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  It was like that idea of being seen, right?

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:13Speaker 00

  That was the most exciting thing. Like, oh, wait, I can be seen here and then congratulated for this thing.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:18Speaker 00

  So that feels exciting.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:21Speaker 00

  Basically feeding that deep insecurity.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  So it is. I tell you what, the first ever um performance thing I ever did was at primary school.

• 9:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  I remember this now and um we put on a production or a or a stage show of Forty Towers. And I got cast as um, I eventually got cast as Basil Foursey. I didn't get, I auditioned for Basil Foursey and didn't get it.

• 9:46Speaker 00

  Sorry.

• 9:48Speaker 00

  This is a primary, this is a primary school.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. See how audition to, god, that's a bit, sounds harsh, doesn't it? Anyway, I didn't get it and a kid called Glenn Watts got the part. And then Glenn was really naughty and they took the role away from him. And I segwayed in and took the role of Basil. I can't, I can't believe I'm telling you this. And I can't believe I actually remember Glenn Watts. Anyway.

• 10:12Speaker 00

  Isn't it amazing?

• 10:13Speaker 01

  I can't tell you what I did last week.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  You remember Glenn?

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember Glenn Watts. Um, but I can distinctly remember going out on the stage.

• 10:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  And landing a joke and getting that sort of wave of laughter, that sort of acceptance. And it was, it's like a drug, isn't it? It's like that adrenaline that it sort of.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Uh gives you, I mean, it's the age old thing of like, why do actors act? Like, what, what, what, what makes a performer? It's, it is essentially standing on stage or in the middle of the room, wanting everyone to sort of notice you.

• 10:49Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  In a weird sort of way. That's what it's all about. I mean, i- it's a mad way to make a living, really, when you, when you think it on those terms.

• 10:57Speaker 00

  It's a total mad way to make a living, because basically you're making a living playing other people.

• 11:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, sometimes you, you catch yourself thinking, have I really chosen this as my.

• 11:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Life's work.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  It's insane, right?

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean, there's, there's, there's pros and cons to it.

• 11:11Speaker 00

  You know, to, to, to go into theatre and you said your parents sacrificed a lot. Would your parents sacrifice for you to do drama?

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Well, my mum, for instance, she um, she was a bank cashier at Midland Bank and um, I did, when I went, so I went to Italia Conti Stage School first. Before going to Rada, but.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  How old were you when you did that there?

• 11:31Speaker 01

  So I did two years at like normal secondary school and then I auditioned, I actually auditioned in the second year for Italia Conti. And um, got in and just couldn't do it because I couldn't leave that. You know, the normality of like a comprehensive in Essex and that, I couldn't imagine myself getting on the central line going from Buckersdale up to the Barbican and. And I, and I bottled it and I didn't do it.

• 11:55Speaker 00

  Well, break that down for me, why though?

• 11:57Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't know what, I don't know what it was. I was sort of um, just intimidated by it. It was too, for, for me being that young, it just felt like too much of a. Of a leap, you know, um.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  Out of your league?

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Possible, possibly, yeah. There was a sort of, I, I was just scared of it. I didn't think, because I'd gone to like a local dance school. That's where it all started, stage one. And um, for some reason I didn't go in the second year and then it was like an itch. I couldn't stop scratching and I went and like, I remember my friend Caroline, who was the. Dance teacher at stage one said, look, you've got a nap, a talent for this. You've got an enthusiasm, like, sort of reconsider it. And I. Auditioned again and then I got in. So I went like the third year of secondary school. And there I was in my Italia Conti blue uniform, you know, up on, I mean, it was a, it was a massive departure, you know, because I, it was. It was, I, I, it felt like I was leaving, you know.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  That life that I'd known and, you know, cause I I'm an Essex boy, but in a in a weird way, I consider myself far more of a a Londoner now because I was commuting up there and I was just mixing with so many different varieties of people that it just sort of opened up my world, really.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  How old were you at that point?

• 13:12Speaker 01

  I was like thirteen.

• 13:13Speaker 00

  It's young, isn't it?

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when I think about it now, yeah, to do that commute every day, five times a week. Um, but absolutely, I mean, and then I'm like doing jazz, I'm doing ballet, I'm doing modern, I'm doing acting and, you know, in the afternoon, then I'm doing schoolwork in the um in the mornings. And so it was just the mate, like stage school was like, it is a bit like fame, I wanna live forever. Do you know what I mean? There is an element of that, you know? Everyone's walking around in leotards and all this sort of stuff. It's kind of crazy. Um, and the the funny thing about Constance is that it had a working agency at the top of the building.

• 13:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  So, um, I always remember like, you know, if your name was on the board, it said come up to the agency, you're like, oh my, like, you know, there's an audition or you'd sort of run up there. Sometimes you'd get the lift if you wanted to be a bit naughty. Anyway, but you'd go in there and you'd have like a commercial casting or something like that. And so, yeah, it was like a sort of, you know, you were sort of a professional working actor as well as a kid.

• 14:13Speaker 00

  Do you know, I grew up in Billy Elliot.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Oh, right, yeah.

• 14:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know, that that was like the first theatre show I ever went to as a kid.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, amazing show. Yeah, I've seen it on stage, yeah.

• 14:23Speaker 00

  It's amazing, right?

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:24Speaker 00

  And it, you know, and the story of Billy Elliot is like, you know, sort of tough lad going into like

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  this world of dance.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could really relate to that.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  And it it feels that way, right? Because

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  how do I sort of, things have sort of changed, but this is a few years ago, right?

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  And going from being an Essex boy with your brothers playing football to suddenly going doing jazz and wearing a leotard. Those are, those are two separate worlds colliding.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, they are.

• 14:49Speaker 00

  So how does

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Literally head on.

• 14:51Speaker 00

  Literally, yeah.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  I still have nightmares about boys ballet. I woke up, wake up in a cold sweat. Don't worry, it's just a dream.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  Because talk me through that, right, because, because that, that for me, right? When I was thirteen years old or twelve years old, around that time, I was like so desperate to like fit in.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:10Speaker 00

  This was all I was caring about, right, was like fitting in and that kind of never really left me.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:15Speaker 00

  Still with me a little bit, right? But especially at that age, but doing something against the grain, like going to firstly, going to a stage school like that and doing dance and everything that involves. But also having the confidence to know that's what you want to do.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 15:31Speaker 00

  That's a unique mentality.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, look, in terms of like what made me want to do it in the first place, it was going to see Michael Jackson live at the Bad tour at Wembley.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  This is eighty eight, wasn't it, was that?

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Ninety eight, yeah, that was a light bulb moment. And I was probably, how old was I then? I don't know, about like ten or something, maybe a bit younger. My mum took me and it was like, what is that? That was like, in terms of like seeing a performance, I'd never, it was just like electricity. It's like Billy Elliot, he says, I feel like electricity.

• 15:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  And it was like that, I'd never seen anything like it. I'd never, I'd never been in that sea of people like that and sort of scratching my head, thinking all of these people have congregated in this one stadium for this one person. Then he came out and was just like breathtaking.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  Do you still remember it now?

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Oh my God, it was like, it was, um, it was, uh, yeah, it was like, the world stopped for me, you know? But it wasn't, it was, it was the music, but it was, um, it was the dance, it was the way that he moved. So that became my like party piece. That was like, I, I locked myself in the, in my room and I got the hat and the glove and, and just perfected all the moves. So every school disco I went to, if Billie Jean came on or something like, the way you make me feel was like all the kids used to go, daddy, daddy. And they used to perform a circle.

• 16:49Speaker 00

  I don't have the hat.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  No, no, let's move the table out of the way. I still do it at weddings, you know what I mean?

• 16:56Speaker 00

  Surely we can see a little, surely we can see a little bit.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  No, no, I've got trouble with my hamstrings lately, you know?

• 17:04Speaker 00

  Really?

• 17:04Speaker 01

  But yeah, so that was like the first, that was where it all started, that led to sort of stage score and then uh on to Rada when I just wanted to be a serious actor sort of, but yeah.

• 17:15Speaker 00

  What is your passion like, is your passion still in dance or is it more in the sort of traditional acting?

• 17:21Speaker 01

  No, I got, I mean, I got, you know, um around about sixteen, seventeen and um then I started just getting into like independent American movies and I was watching people like De Niro and Pacino and Gene Hackman and all that like and you suddenly go.

• 17:38Speaker 00

  Hackman, man.

• 17:39Speaker 01

  Why, you just sort of go, uh, I recognised very early on that, you know, a dancer's life, a dancer's shelf life, for instance, is a bit like a footballer.

• 17:48Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  It's only so long because your body can only sustain it for a certain amount of time. But with acting, I was like, the longevity that comes with that as a career is sort of, you can just go on and on with it, you know, unless people get really bored of watching it.

• 18:03Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  But there was to me, just, I, I just, again, you know, my favourite actor in the world is Robert De Niro and I had the same sort of, you know, idolisation of Michael Jackson as I did with De Niro, because I just, I always remember like, I'm a painter as well, I remember doing GCSE art on my mum and dad's dining table at home.

• 18:27Speaker 00

  Okay, that's a good place to do it.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, right in the middle of all the noise and everything else, but it was like a retrospective of De Niro films on Channel Four. And um every Sunday, they'd have a different movie. So you'd have Deer Hunter one week, then Taxi Driver, then Raging Bull, and I was just, and this is, and I, I was staggered that all of these performances were coming from the same individual.

• 18:51Speaker 00

  Why? Because it was so different?

• 18:52Speaker 01

  They were so different and so engaging and so alive, but yeah, it was the variety. I mean, you know, he's a consummate character actor, isn't he? He's so, and I've always been drawn to those type of actors, like the Daniel Day Lewis's and the, you know. Denzel Washingtons and Gary Oldmans where they're so, their characterisations are so in-depth and so varied. That they, they're so good at it, they've just become lead actors, do you know what I mean?

• 19:20Speaker 00

  Do you, Jenny, that's, I'm a huge movie buff, right? I've actually never seen Taxi Driver.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Have you never seen?

• 19:24Speaker 00

  Sorry, Raging Bull, seen Taxi Driver, never seen Raging Bull, never seen Raging Bull.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Well, it's always a toss-up for me between the two of those, or like, what's my favourite De Niro movie?

• 19:32Speaker 00

  Really?

• 19:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:33Speaker 00

  Because being a movie lover, right?

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:36Speaker 00

  I love like the, the storytelling of it and I like what it makes me feel. But it feels like what you were into was the, the characters.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:44Speaker 00

  You became in love with the acting and the, the.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you, I mean.

• 19:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I see that's, I'm different.

• 19:49Speaker 01

  Do yourself a favour, sit down and watch Raging Bull because.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  Um, it's an extraordinary film anyway, but. When you consider the sort of level of commitment that he's sort of poured into that characterisation, it's extraordinary because. Um, you know, he got super fit, he's like a middleweight boxer. Uh, trained with the real Jake LaMotta, who said he could have become a real boxer himself, he was that good. And then they sort of stopped filming. Um, and he sort of went on a tour around Europe, just eating bread and pasta and, and he just gained all of that weight. And so, you know, there's no sort of A I or anything like that, there's no sort of C G I. And it sort of cuts and now all of that muscle's gone and he's just this sort of, this slob of a man.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  You know, he sort of descends into um, alcoholism and, and everything else. It's an extraordinary sort of performance. I mean, my fav, three favourite films are Apocalypse Now, Raging Bull and Nailed By Mouth. I mean, they're just like. None of those, no, no, none of those are date movies, put it that way. But I've always been drawn to that, you know, that darkness in sort of the human psyche. And there was none better than De Niro to bring those characters to life. Yeah.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  Try to do a De Niro impression.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  No, you're not gonna get me doing a Tom Idelson here. Tom Idelson actually did it in front of him on Graham Norton, right? I was like, woo, that's brave.

• 21:17Speaker 00

  Danny, so do you, talking like the Daniel Day Lewis's, right? Which Daniel Day Lewis is, again, like a huge favourite of mine for many reasons. Like Last of the Mohicans, man, is like, it's phenomenal.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't think there's anyone that has that. I think he has the biggest range, right? You consider him like in Last of the Mohicans and then you see him as Abraham Lincoln. It's like, I tell you a story about Daniel Day Lewis. I was doing a play at the Royal Court. And it was a play called Motortown and it was written for me. It was written by a wonderful playwright called Simon Stephens. And it was all about a soldier coming back from Basra and reintegrating himself into Dagenham in Essex. Hence why it's called Motortown, because there's Dagenham Motors there. Anyway, it was like the best role I'd ever been given on stage. I never left the stage and there was like eight other actors that come in and do their scenes with me.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  And it was just an extraordinary gift of a part. Anyway, there was, to cut a long story short, there was no set on the stage. It was just a bank of lights. And once you were in the light, you're in character. And once you're out the light, you can come out of character like that. But obviously I'm always on stage. But when we end, when the play starts, before it even starts, the house lights were on.

• 22:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  And our brilliant director, Ramin Gray, says, like, you're out of character. I want you to really look at the audience and, because this thing doesn't start until the lights come on and then you step into the space. So I'd always sort of look out and sort of see who's arriving like that. And there was an actor in it called Richard Graham, whose best friend at drama school was Daniel Day Lewis. And he told us this in rehearsals. I went, oh, that's wonderful like that. And there's one particular performance coming towards the end of the run. And I was, and I remember I came out of my dressing room and I was walking down the steps with Richard. And he said, oh, by the way, my best mate's in tonight. I went, oh, that's brilliant, fantastic. I went, what, wait, what? What? Yeah, Daniel Day Lewis? He went, yeah. I said, Richard, you can't tell me that.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  I'm about to go out there and lead this play, like, what the mark? Like, what do I do now? Like, my heart's going like this. And I thought, I'm not gonna look out into the audience. I'm not gonna do it in case I bump, you know, sort of lock eyes with him. And of course, it got the better of me and I, I was there listening to music and I just looked up and slap bang in the middle of the auditorium at the Royal Call. You couldn't miss him because he had like an orange beanie on and a massive beard and he was sitting there bolt upright, right with this sort of scowl on his face with his arms folded, just looking at me like that, just like, because he was just about to go and shoot There Will Be Blood, hence the big beard. And he was like really intense, just looking at me and I was just like, I'm not going

• 24:06Speaker 01

  to be able to string two words together here. Anyway.

• 24:10Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  It was crazy. We went out, we did the show, it was great. And then I, I met him in the bar afterwards and he couldn't have been nicer.

• 24:17Speaker 00

  He was amazing.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  He was so complimentary and sweet and he just had a wonderful time, yeah.

• 24:23Speaker 00

  When someone of that, like those credentials says to you, hey, that was great what you did.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:30Speaker 00

  That must shoot into you like, I don't know.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, hold on to those little moments like that, yeah, sort of unforgettable, yeah.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  When you put your body in the hands of a surgeon, you assume your doctor will do you no harm.

• 24:43Speaker 03

  I'm looking at the surgery board for tomorrow. These people are ****.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Crooked doctors have launched their most ambitious fraud yet, worth over one billion dollars.

• 24:54Speaker 04

  One doctor says, my kickback was 25,000 and the other doctor's going, well, I only got 12,000.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  From Sony Music Entertainment and Western Sound, this is Doctor Billions. Search for Doctor Billions wherever you get your podcasts and start listening today.

• 25:11Speaker 00

  I have a picture which I'm trying to get up. This is your yearbook pic.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Oh dear. Yeah. The, um, yeah.

• 25:21Speaker 00

  This is your graduate year.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  That's when I had a normal hairline. It's slowly receding. Jesus, the leather, the actor leather jacket, you know, moody eyes.

• 25:32Speaker 00

  But what was it, because for me, right?

• 25:34Speaker 01

  Babyface.

• 25:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, because.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Not, not much has changed.

• 25:37Speaker 00

  It was great because. I remember where there was a, there was a part of me at one point that I wanted to go into acting.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 25:44Speaker 00

  Like, I, I did acting at school and then I went to Leeds University and I was, you know, I did acting at Leeds and I just loved, I loved the stage, but I didn't have the commitment to it. And the really, the moment I realised I didn't have the commitment to it is when I was gonna go and try for Rada and I had to learn the monologue and I had to do this and I had to do that and I thought, I just can't, I'm not gonna bother doing it.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Oh, Jamie.

• 26:03Speaker 00

  And that, that's the difference between people who actually go for it, you have to have that commitment. Do you remember your audition process for Rada?

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, it's quite, it's very long-winded, actually.

• 26:12Speaker 00

  Do you remember what you did?

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I remember doing, um, Joey from Road, Jim Cartwright, everyone does Road. That was my monologue and I remembered doing Malvolio from Twelfth Night.

• 26:25Speaker 00

  Love Malvolio from Twelfth Night.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, you had to do a Shakespeare and a modern, that was it, yeah.

• 26:30Speaker 00

  I'm not gonna ask you, do you think you could still recite it? If you dug deep?

• 26:33Speaker 01

  I can't remember Twelfth Night, but I, I can remember, um, the dagger speech from Macbeth. Yeah, for some reason.

• 26:44Speaker 00

  Can you give a little bit?

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Um.

• 26:45Speaker 00

  Come on, and really get into it.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  No way, Owen, I try and remember the dagger speech. Is this a dagger I see before me? The handle toward my hand.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Come, let me clutch thee.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  I have thee not, and yet I see thee still. Art thou not fatal vision sensible to feeling as to sight? Or art thou but a dagger of the mind? A false creation proceeding from the heat oppressive brain. I see thee yet in form as palpable as this which now I draw. Thou marshals me the way that I was going and such an instrument I was to use.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  Mine eyes are made the fools o'er other senses or else worth all the rest.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  I see thee still and on thy blade and dudgeon gouts of blood which was not so before.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  There's no such thing.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  'Tis the bloody business which informs thus to mine eyes.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Now o'er the one half world, nature seems dead, and wicked dreams abuse the curtain's sleep. Witchcraft celebrates pale hecots' offerings, and withered murder alarm through his sentinel, the wolf who howls his watch, thus, with his stealthy pace, with tarquin's ravishing strides towards his design, moves like a ghost.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  Thou shore and firm-set earth, hear not my steps which way they walk, for fear thy very stones, prate of my whereabouts, and take the present horror from the time which now suits with it.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Whilst I threaten, he lives, words to the heat of deeds to cold breath gives.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  I go, and it is done.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  The bell invites me. Hear it not, Duncan, for it is a knell that summons thee to heaven

• 28:50Speaker 01

  or to hell. How have I remembered that?

• 28:53Speaker 00

  That is unbelievable!

• 28:55Speaker 01

  How have I remembered it?

• 28:56Speaker 00

  Unbelievable, daddy! How have I- Freaking god, man! That shake that you saw in there! What? How have I remembered that? That is unbelievable!

• 29:05Speaker 01

  Someone call someone! Let's get production going!

• 29:08Speaker 00

  Let's get this going! Man, it's like memorizing. Like, that is brilliant!

• 29:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Did you all understand it? Were you following?

• 29:18Speaker 00

  But do you know what that is? Maybe it's age or something. I remember when I used to get taken to, you know, whatever it was, maybe it was Macbeth or whatever it was at school, and to the production. I used to, this morning, but now, listening to you here, sitting, have that, it's like this flow, this rhythm.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. But that's just how, like, the writing is of such power and magnitude. It's like- Because he was an actor, right? Shakespeare was an actor himself. So it's like every line just trips on to a new thought. And it's seamless. That is an amazing play and an amazing speech because you're dealing with someone who's hallucinating. I'm like, she's gone, right, you've got to go and kill him now. And he's so wound up, like he sees a floating dagger in front of him. And it's like, it's just an amazing, I mean, I've never, I haven't done a professional Shakespeare production.

• 30:12Speaker 00

  Wait for the call-ups, man. Here they fricking come. That is amazing.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's amazing I remembered it. I haven't sort of done that for a long time, yeah.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  Can I ask an odd question? And I don't know how to pitch this, but I'm gonna try in a weird way. Acting and especially like Rada, it used to feel like a sort of

• 30:34Speaker 00

  posh boys' club, in a way, or posh persons' club.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:38Speaker 00

  It felt like that. And acting used to feel like you had to be from some sort of like wealthy family because you would have to be funded by someone in order to have a career because you'd be auditioning for the first five, six, seven years of your life. And so it was typically these posh kids who were becoming actors.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:57Speaker 00

  Is that, is that a fair narrative or not a fair narrative?

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Um, look, you're talking about like the arts and things like that. It should just be accessible.

• 31:05Speaker 00

  To everyone.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  To everyone. And if it's an elitist group, then that's a poor thing. And it's, um, it's not right.

• 31:12Speaker 00

  Because my question is to you, is did you ever feel, because you came from, you know, you came from Essex and then going into-

• 31:17Speaker 01

  I was terrified when I first went to Rada. Honest to God, I was like, um,

• 31:23Speaker 01

  that is a very good question because I, you know, I came, I came from stage school, which was essentially like tits and teeth, the outside in, you know, jazz hands and all of that.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  That's what I mean to this, some of the serious place.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  And then I walked into Rada and I got in and I didn't audition anywhere else, which is really naive, really. Like this Lambda and Central and Actors Centre.

• 31:41Speaker 00

  You didn't want to plan B, you just-

• 31:42Speaker 01

  And I was like, if I'm gonna go anywhere, I'm going to go to Rada. And thankfully I got in, you know what I mean? But I was so, when I first got there, um, it felt like to me, like, God, they'd all been to, like, my year had all been to uni.

• 32:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  And they were so well-read and they were so eloquent the way that they spoke. And I would ju- I just sort of clammed up and I thought I'm way out of my depth there and sort of um. I remember doing like uh Shakespeare Sonic Class with Bardi Thomas and like not being able to even. Over my mouth and feeling feeling just so in fear and that imposter syndrome was kicking in and. And I got to the point where I was like, you know what, you this is a golden. Incredible opportunity if you like, I mean, you're at Rada, do you know what I mean? Like, people would love to go here. So strip the walls of it, trying to, you know, get as much out of it as you can and um. Kick the imposter syndrome thing into touch and just roll with it, you know?

• 32:45Speaker 00

  That's a great attitude to have because I think lots of us in life will get to that point where we get that imposter syndrome. And actually, you've got to kind of flip it on its head and say, no, this is a great opportunity. I've got to try and remove that from my locker.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  I mean, it it rears its ugly head every now and again. I remember like the first day on Thursday Murder Club with the brilliant Naomi Aki in the scene. But there was also. Uh Ben Kingsley, Pierce Brosnan, Helen Mirren, Celia Imrie. And I looked over at the monitor and Chris Columbus is directing it. I was like, it was a heavyweight first day.

• 33:16Speaker 00

  You say you're saying you still get imposter syndrome.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Oh, no, that day I was like, oh, this is like, you know, Gandhi, James Bond, the Queen, Whitney Houston. I was like a little old me and I'm like, hold on, like, you know, um. But, you know, you're there to do a job. You have to, and you use that to fuel the fire and go, yeah, all right, you're a bit nervous, but. You've got to use it. And at the end of the day, though, Jamie, they're they're just people, you know, they're just.

• 33:41Speaker 00

  They're just people.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  They're just people and they they're worried about their parts just as much as you are and we're all in it together and it was such a great, you know what I mean?

• 33:49Speaker 00

  Tell you, this is what I realised as I got older and I try and say this to like everyone. Whether you're going for a job interview or you're starting a business, you're going to uni or whatever, they're just people.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 00

  It's it's they're not, they're just people.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:00Speaker 00

  Like you and me, they've got emotions, most of them, and they and they're normally they're pretty nice.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, I I had an amazing job uh called Franklin with the brilliant Michael Douglas. You know, I had six months in Paris filming this thing for Apple TV. And I was a close hand confidant of Michael's character Franklin, uh Edward Bancroft. And so I had loads of scenes of Michael and like you don't get any bigger than that, you know. He's Hollywood royalty, but you couldn't have met the nicest, more down to earth, unstarry guy than Michael. He was just absolute dream to work with.

• 34:33Speaker 00

  When you meet, cause again, he's kind of like, we grew up with.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:37Speaker 00

  When you meet someone like that, are you a bit like, hey, uh, uh, what's your name? Like, how do you?

• 34:44Speaker 01

  He was great because um, this job kept getting pushed back. I was like, it's never gonna happen. Do you know what I mean? Like, something's going on, they keep delaying it. And then before I knew it, I was there on day one in a powdered wig, heels and a frock coat. And then all of a sudden like, but you're right. I was like, this isn't, this isn't gonna happen. I kept thinking of like Fatal Attraction and falling down and like, I've grown up with him. Like this iconic sort of Hollywood legend. And then all of a sudden he was there. And I, he sort of swam into my vision. He was like, hey Danny, great to meet you. I loved your tape. Let's go. And I just like, that was it.

• 35:18Speaker 00

  He did it like that?

• 35:19Speaker 01

  He said, let's go, let's do the scene. It was like a four page dinner scene. It was great to start with a big scene like that. And we just, we just hit it off. Yeah.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  Cause how do you separate the pressure, right? When you're doing, because I like, okay. Like it's not even in the same league and I don't know how, but I presented with Claire Balding.

• 35:38Speaker 00

  Just, yeah, just, yeah, don't worry about it, man.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Sheesh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  He's a bugger. That's my, that's my Michael Douglas. But when I was presenting with her.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  We've all got Claire Balding.

• 35:51Speaker 00

  But when I was presenting with her, right, I was in my head, I was thinking, it's just like, she's done this a lot and.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:58Speaker 00

  Like normally I'm, I'm okay in those situations, right? I, I think I can read that auto queue and I kind of got this, right?

• 36:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:04Speaker 00

  But for some reason you get in your own head.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:07Speaker 00

  And, and, and that's when you're, that's when you have to go back to your technique, I imagine. And like you have to really like hunker down on your talent and be confident in that talent.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. But Jamie, I couldn't do what you do. I could, like you just said, auto queue. Like my strong suit is not.

• 36:21Speaker 00

  Is it not?

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Sight reading. No. I remember being on This Morning once with um, Philip Schofield and Holly Willoughby. And they, you know, oh Danny, it was like, they just sort of left him, went, could you do the Christmas pass the parcel appeal this year? And I was like, what's that? We just need you to read this off of auto queue. I was like. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, yeah, that's, that's fine like that. And I started it and I, and I, and I, and I went wrong. I went, oh, sorry. Yeah. And I'm just going into from the top like that. And I went wrong again. And I looked there and they were just, Phil was just looking at his script like, I don't think you can do it, you know. Um.

• 36:58Speaker 00

  Man, but I heard that Michael Douglas, um, was the one that pushed you into Guys and Dolls?

• 37:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do. I had a Zoom with Nick Heitner, the doc, cause that, that was like an offer for Nathan Detroit. And, um, I had to sort of, uh, dust down the jazz shoes and think if I was gonna do it. But no, it was a great offer, but I had a Zoom with Nick Heitner and he said it'd be great. And he said, I'll give you like a week to think about it as such. And, and I was filming Air Franklin out in Paris. And I was sitting there on set with the brilliant Noah Dupe, who was in the scene as well. And Noah, Noah went like, so what are you doing, Danny, after this? And I went, well, I've had a, I've had a left field offer of work, really.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Um, I've been offered a musical. Michael dressed as Franklin went, what, what, what, what musical? And I went, I went, um, uh, Guys and Dolls. He went, Guys and Dolls? He went, my God. He went, what part? And I went, Nathan Detroit. He went, are you gonna do it? I went, Michael, I mean, I'm, I'm just in two minds. And he went, Danny, he went, you're doing it. And you're not gonna take no for an answer. And I was just like, really? Went, you gotta do it. And I was like, wow. Um, and then within the, the director of Franklin was Tim Van Patten, who's done Sopranos. Anyway, it was, uh, what you learn is every American's favorite musical is Guys and Dolls, right? And it was Tim's favorite musical. And then within a couple of days, I used to come out on set in Franklin

• 38:26Speaker 01

  and Tim used to play, it's good or rela-, and all the French crew were going, good or reliable Nathan? So I couldn't say no. So I had to do it. Yeah, that was it. But Michael and Catherine Zeta-Jones both came to see Guys and Dolls. Yeah. Just before, um, I had a sort of break in, in the run and they came on the, the finale of the last, of the first run. Yeah. So it was just amazing.

• 38:49Speaker 00

  That is insane.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  I remember like they came backstage and all of the cast were like. Just sort of, it was, it was amazing. They was like all sort of a bit starstruck.

• 38:58Speaker 00

  And you got an Olivier nomination.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It was amazing. The whole experience.

• 39:02Speaker 00

  You must be so proud of yourself, right?

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I hadn't done like, we spoke about Conti's, I hadn't done a musical in like, I don't know, like twenty five years. I mean, here's the thing, you don't have to have a great singing voice as Nathan Detroit. That's the first thing that Nick Hyten has said to me on the Zoom. He said, Danny, you don't have to be a good singer. It's more of an acting part. And I went, Nick, you haven't heard me sing yet. Um, but the way this thing was staged, because it was all like immersive and it was on moving platforms and I've never been in a hit like that. Yeah. And to get an Olivier nomination at the end of it was just like the cherry on top of the cake. Um, it's just a Sunset Boulevard won everything.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Damn you!

• 39:43Speaker 00

  I always think with awards, when you don't win it, it's fucking annoying.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  It's a really weird, um. I got nominated for a BAFTA for Line of Duty, which in it, in itself is an amazing achievement because I was only in one episode. If you know that show.

• 39:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, I love it.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  I didn't make it to the second ep, did I? I got blasted away at the, in the, at the last frame of ep one. So on paper, it was just an amazing character with all that long interrogation scene. Anyway, ended up getting a BAFTA nomination. It was like, wow, what a moment, you know, like you're a BAFTA nominated actor. And so, but it's like, no one tells you the sort of pressure and hype that goes around it, like the, the big day's coming.

• 40:26Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  And like now it's like six nominations, I think. Back then it was like four.

• 40:30Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  So I was in it, I was up against Tom Hollander and John Lithgow, um. Someone else from The Crown. It was Jared Harris. So John Lithgow and Jared Harris from The Crown. And, uh, Tom Hollander for Night Manager.

• 40:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Like, like three incredible actors. And so you got, again, that, like, little old me, like, but here's the thing. It's just nerve wracking awards, isn't it? No one can't explains that to me. So you're sitting there and then like, but, and then I always remember it was like, um, the tickets came through. And I go, oh, look, here's the tickets for the festival, Festival Hall. And you go, and you look at it. And I was like there with my wife, I got my plus one and it's like, we're on the end of the row. And you go, you go, here love, I think we're in here. We're right at the end of the road. We don't, look, look, look at straight access to the stage.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  Get your, get your dress sorted out. We're fucking, we got it. Let's work on the acceptance speech now. So you're like that, you know what I mean? You think, okay, and you get there and it's all like hot and you do the red carpet and everything like that. And you think, I was, I mean, like, I'm a supporting actor category. So normally they're really, they're like early on. So get it out of the way, get the BAFTA and then just sit back and chill. Um, but it was right towards the end with all the main acting thing, acting awards. And when they, the lovely Tom Holland, they won it and he was brilliant in that role and he was thoroughly deserved it. But when they say someone else's name, it's like an instantaneous, like simultaneous, like utter relief that it's over and crushing disappointment at the same time.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  It's a absolute head fuck. And there, and there's a camera pointed at you right at that moment. You're like, where do I look? Like, what do, and then, and then you just have to go, well done, Tom. Love you. And you have to do this.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  It's a head fuck. Yeah, yeah, she did that. And then, and then it's over and then they move on to the next category. And it's gone, and it's gone. She gets to the bar.

• 42:41Speaker 00

  Robert De Niro, Daniel Lewis, they're like method actors, right?

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:44Speaker 00

  What is your take on method acting? Because the role that you have, uh, John Worboys.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:50Speaker 00

  In Believe Me on ITV, it's a, it's a, it's a challenging role.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was difficult.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  Can you, can you explain to the audience to listen to what it's about?

• 42:58Speaker 01

  So John Worboys, um, was nicknamed the black cab rapist. He was a black cab driver who in the sort of, uh, early naughties, um, is effectively one of Britain's worst ever sexual predators. And so he was a licensed cab driver and his modus operandi was he'd go out in his cab and he'd sort of pick up, you know, drunk women, young girls from nightclubs and things like that. And he'd be taking them home. And he'd come up with this concocted story that he'd won. At the casino that night or won the lottery. I've won thirty grand tonight and then he'd bend down and pick up a bag and hold up the bag of cash, which was the visual clue.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  And he'd also say, oh, look, I've got a bottle of champagne as well with my winnings, but I obviously I can't have a drink tonight because I'm driving. I don't want to lose my licence. You'll have a glass for me, won't you? And he'd talk them round, that he would sort of be insistent and wouldn't take no for an answer. And then he'd lace the champagne with a concoction of drugs, which would render them unconscious. Um, he sort of offended up to a hundred and five women. So, I mean, it's written by Jeff Pope, so the drama explores those incidences. Um, his arrest, um, the trial and how basically he got sort of, he got eight years, but then after that they gave him

• 44:27Speaker 01

  parole. They granted him parole. And it was about these two extraordinary women, Leila and Sarah, as they're named in our story, that effectively, under the Human Rights Act, sued the Metropolitan Police because the whole case, the whole, everything with these women, it was littered with police failings from the Met. Um, so they held them to account. They sued, you know, the judicial system and everything. And it was like an extraordinary act of courage and bravery and dignity from the victims to do that. But it's a harrowing story.

• 44:58Speaker 00

  It's a heavy role.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  It's a heavy role and because the thing is, I've played nefarious wrong ones in the past, pretty much at the beginning of my career. And you always have to try and find some element that's redeeming about them. There's something, even in someone like that, there's something likeable. And there was literally nothing with this character. And so essentially the thing is, when you watch, it's like four episodes and every time you see the character on screen, he's lying. He's not telling the truth. And that was really difficult, you know, it was a challenging headspace to sort of occupy.

• 45:33Speaker 00

  How do you get into that headspace? Because that's a like.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:36Speaker 00

  Anyone, man, that's a lot.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was it was hard because I I I underestimated it because I thought, you know, I've got like twenty six years as a professional actor, it's like another role.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  He's just like, I'm just gonna get into this role and just do it.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it was just very isolating because I I we filmed it down in Cardiff, so I had a sort of light schedule at the beginning of it. So I was travelling down to Cardiff doing something unspeakable and then going back to my family, which was really disorientating. And then then it got more and more intense with the court case and all the taxi scenes are in the last week. And then we had to do these extraordinary um psychiatrist scenes where when he's in prison, he finds God, which was basically just a ruse to to get parole as quickly as possible. And so I've got these really lengthy scenes with the psychiatrist where um he starts to emote all all this emotion and he's so sorry for what he's done.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  But you know he's lying. And so I had to sort of lean into my acting training, which is like Stanislavski, where you sort of use, which is called emotional recall, where you'll think of something in your own life which upsets you, like you've lost a loved one or something's happened. And I often do that. If I need to do an emotional scene, I'll listen to some music. You can see Danny's in the corner of the set somewhere, just getting into it.

• 46:58Speaker 00

  Where do you go in your mind?

• 46:59Speaker 01

  I just go to, you know, like a grandad I loved who's passed away or, you know, various stuff that's happened. And you just sort of, it's like hypnotizing yourself or getting yourself into that headspace.

• 47:11Speaker 00

  And you picture that moment that you find out or?

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And then basically you've got that on a low light, you've got that emotion running in through you. I mean, I have to do it that way. Some actors can just turn tears and emotion on like a tap, you know what I mean?

• 47:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  I have to sort of really get into it. And so then you're called to set and then you have to sort of use that emotion but obviously fuel that into the dialogue that you're coming out with in the scene. So it's a mixture of those two things. It's it's it's about technique. It's about using your craft and technique as an actor to serve what the writing is trying to give you.

• 47:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, but you're what you're doing there when you're playing such a deep role and a heavy role.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:47Speaker 00

  You're manipulating your emotions.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:49Speaker 00

  But your body and mind don't really know you're tricking yourself.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:52Speaker 00

  So you're putting yourself into that space. You know, I spoke to Naomi Aki, right, who she played Whitney.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:58Speaker 00

  And she was talking about how much Whitney took from her. She was like, it just took everything. And it feels to me that the actors sometimes underestimate how much it it takes. And and I heard that you had to take some counselling afterwards.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I did. There was um. We had intimacy coordinators on this job, which I'd never worked with before because um when I was doing those types of scenes that they weren't about. But we did have a a facility of a counsellor and it was in that last week with all the taxi scenes. And again, I was like, I don't need to talk to a counsellor. This is I'm like big and brave enough enough to get on with it. And but I ended up talking to the counsellor for forty five minutes and it was really invaluable just to.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  Just to talk it over because it was sort of relentless character really. And just to sort of talk about it and to check in with someone, it sort of stabilized me a little bit. Not that I was sort of uncontrollable or anything, but it just it was just a really invaluable exercise into sort of getting the load off as such. Yeah.

• 49:01Speaker 00

  Do you know, it's such a it's such a male response, which is like, well, I was I was fine. Well, yeah, I don't know that that much. I was totally fine, but.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:10Speaker 00

  It was invaluable, but I'm totally fine.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:13Speaker 00

  And to do the role justice, you have to become the the person almost.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I tell you what it was, Jamie, it was like when I read the scripts.

• 49:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:21Speaker 01

  Because Jeff's a friend of mine and he said, look, this is coming to your agent, but I want to talk to you about it first before you jump out the window because the nature of what it is.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  And I was like, okay, so let's send me the scripts and, you know, our daughter is Dixie is thirteen now. She knows she's a teenager and like she's going out on trains with her mates and before long she'll be in the back of a taxi, you know. When I read those scripts as a parent, it absolutely terrified me because I was like, that's someone's daughter in the back there. And um I just as a as a father, as a parent, I had a completely different response to it. As I if I'd have if I'd have done that like in my early twenties, I'd have been like so sort of gung ho and yeah, let's make a mark with this character. But it it sort of terrified me, yeah. So you you have to sort of you have to absorb that, but not let it affect what you have to do. Because when you're doing it, you can't judge who he is, you just have to play the character.

• 50:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's funny, I've just become a parent.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:19Speaker 00

  To to a little baby boy.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  Oh, congratulations, yeah.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  Man, and it's like, and I know with you the same thing, it totally changed my view.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:27Speaker 00

  It it knocks you for fucking sex.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  It takes four time as long as to leave the house. My god, why aren't we out the door yet?

• 50:37Speaker 00

  Going on holidays is mental. It's like it's like you're moving house.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 50:41Speaker 00

  But you're right, when you become a parent, you you view things do totally differently and.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:46Speaker 00

  And you're so right, when you read that script, you're thinking that is someone's daughter.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, your sensibilities change, everything shifts, doesn't it? Because I mean, becoming a parent is like you're no longer the most important person in the room, which is a great leveller, isn't it? You know, you're thinking about someone else before yourself.

• 51:03Speaker 00

  I was listening to an interview with Coogan, right?

• 51:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:05Speaker 00

  Um Steve Coogan, who who played um uh.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Alan Partridge.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Sorry, I thought you were reaching for it.

• 51:15Speaker 00

  And the way that he got into that role, um he played um recently on BBC, I mean.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Oh, Jimmy Savile.

• 51:22Speaker 00

  Jimmy Savile.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:23Speaker 00

  He played Jimmy Savile.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  I don't think I know what you're gonna say, yeah.

• 51:26Speaker 00

  And he he wore Savile's.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  He wore his shoes.

• 51:28Speaker 00

  He wore Savile's actual shoes.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:30Speaker 00

  Which is.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Again, that was written by Jeff Pope. The thing is, like, you're talking about like.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  It's a weirdly like a, I feel it's a it's it feels really dark, that.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  But I mean, you know, like, I sort of, in a way, respect

• 51:45Speaker 00

  Totally, I did, yeah.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Steve Coogan for doing that, because like, I think whatever you need to do to get into the character, then that's what you have to do. And sort of like, if you're talking about method acting and things like that, as long as it doesn't encroach on the other performer, you know, all avenues are open to try and get the best out of the characterization. So if that's what Steve Coogan wanted to do, then all power to him for doing that. I actually thought his performance was extraordinary.

• 52:09Speaker 00

  So good.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  It was so good. And again, incredible, like, it's, it's a very daunting and brave thing to take on.

• 52:17Speaker 00

  But it's, it's like, how far do you, like, how far would you go for a role then? Because if you go like Daniel Day-Lewis, right?

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:24Speaker 00

  I mean, the, the lengths that he goes to is kind of wild. So you have, you have that side of it, right?

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:30Speaker 00

  But then you have like Laurence Olivier, right?

• 52:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:33Speaker 00

  Who is one of the supposed greatest, and there's that famous line that he said to Dustin Hoffman.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  I've got it on my Instagram page for some reason.

• 52:40Speaker 00

  Do you really?

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it says, why don't you try acting, dear boy? Yeah, which is hilarious. I think they were filming Marathon Man, weren't they? And Dustin Hoffman sort of runs, he's decided to do like five laps of the park. Because the scene, he had to be hot and sweaty and out of breath and things like that. And so he got to about lap three, and Olivier goes, why don't you try acting, dear boy? And it's like, but, you know, Dustin had to do what he had to do to get into it, you know?

• 53:09Speaker 00

  So you

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Other actors will go, right, just put the sweat, sweat on me. I'll jump up and down for like two seconds and then go. It's, it's, it's

• 53:17Speaker 00

  So where do you, where do you lie?

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Um, I think I was much more like that when I was a younger actor. I think I've got more sort of technique and know-how now, just to sort of turn it off and on, you know? But I did a lot of work with Mike Lee when I was younger. I did two Mike Lee movies. And the thing about when you work with someone like Mike is, he's very clear about, there's the actor and there's the character. And so you have to keep those two things separate. And then you've got your, your sort of directors and Tannoy sort of going all the time when you're playing the role. You can't, you know what I mean, I've done scenes, I remember doing a scene with someone once and

• 53:58Speaker 01

  eh, this guy, well, it should remain nameless, but it was like a fight scene type thing.

• 54:03Speaker 00

  Who was?

• 54:03Speaker 01

  I can't, and he, and he, and I remember he slapped me around the face like that, like proper slapped me on take one. And I was just like, what the fuck was that?

• 54:16Speaker 01

  And he went, oh, was it a bit too hard? I went, yeah, cause like, we're gonna be doing like another seven, eight takes of this. And you, are you planning on hitting me that hard, like for eight takes? I said, I'm not gonna be able to hear out my ear, do you know what I mean? It was sort of, cause that's the, the thing of like, you've got to, you've got to have technique, you've got to be able to, so if you're doing like a play, you're doing eight performances a week, do you know what I mean? You've got to make sure that there's always safety with the actors and things like that and looking after your voice, it's all, you know, it's, it's, it's got to look spontaneous and in the moment, but you've got to back it up with the craft.

• 54:52Speaker 00

  Can, can I ask, you said you would like that in your early years, and maybe this is totally wrong, but is that because you, you, you came out of Rada, right? Rada is like, the creme de la creme, right? It's the, it's the

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Supposedly.

• 55:04Speaker 00

  Supposedly, right? It was an element that you had to take yourself seriously, and so if you, and so I'm an actor, so I have to, is there an element of that, as you get older and more relaxed in your career, because you got, you know, you, you just, you, you kill every role and you have all these things, you kind of go, I don't need to take myself as seriously, is that wrong for me to say that?

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I've mellowed out as the years have, have rolled by, because um, I, you know, ultimately, I don't think you can take yourself too seriously in this industry, in the acting world, do you know what I mean? I think it's too, uh, I don't, you know, I actually don't think I've ever been like that really, do you know what I mean? Like I'm sort of. The thing that has always appealed to me about what I do for a living is that it's always this. I like, I'm not a lovey, do you know what I mean? I, I respond to the notion of it, we're all in this together.

• 55:56Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  From the person that's bringing you a cup of tea, you know, one of the runners to the lead actor on the call sheet, you know, it's about a group of people all pulling in the same direction to serve the writing. That's really what it's about. And I think if you are, if you're too serious about yourself, if you're a diva or whatever you wanna call it, then to be honest, you won't last long in the industry. You'll, you'll get found out.

• 56:20Speaker 00

  Robert De Niro says, the moment that you think you're cool is the moment that you're not.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:24Speaker 00

  Always stay calm.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, stay calm.

• 56:26Speaker 00

  Stay calm.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:30Speaker 00

  This is a hard question, especially being a Brit. Do you know you're good?

• 56:35Speaker 01

  No, I don't think about it like that, you know, I let, I'm.

• 56:40Speaker 00

  Cause you're brilliant.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  No, you're, you're so brilliant.

• 56:43Speaker 00

  End the podcast right. But it's funny how Brits can't take this comment. It's suddenly we close up and ah.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  What are you reading at the moment?

• 56:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, but, but, but what's I, do you know what's interesting, right? If I was to go to a dentist.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:59Speaker 00

  Or a surgeon.

• 57:02Speaker 00

  Or, I don't know, I don't know, maybe an architect and say, do you think you're good at your job? They'd probably say, yeah, I'm, I'm good at what I do.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:08Speaker 00

  When it comes to acting, for some reason, in that sort of entertainment space, especially we shy away. I don't, I'm, I'm not a good singer, I'm not a good dancer, I'm not a good actor.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:16Speaker 00

  We don't wanna say what we actually are.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  But it's all, it's all like, it's, it's all a question of taste. It's all subjective, isn't it?

• 57:23Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  There'll be people that love me as an actor and there'll be people that go, I don't really fancy Danny May's like that. I don't think he's particularly good or he's a bit.

• 57:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I don't think anyone actually says that.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  But do you know what I mean though? It's sort of like, and I don't think you can ever, again, it's that thing of like staying grounded, isn't it? And I've always had that discipline that, um, every character you play, wipe the slate clean and come out fresh. Never rest on your laurels, never.

• 57:46Speaker 00

  Really?

• 57:46Speaker 01

  Never rely on the last performance you've given.

• 57:48Speaker 00

  That's advice you'd give to someone listening now.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  Without a doubt, yeah. Always, cause try to test yourself a, a, a, all times, you know? Cause there was, there's parts that you haven't played yet. There's parts that, the beauty about what I do for a living is it, it's like, it's so mysterious and endless.

• 58:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  And you can, hopefully you get better as you get older and it just sort of rolls on to the other job and, you know, it was, for me, it was always about. Um longevity was all I I wanna be old and grey one day and look back at a body of work, which I'm incredibly proud of, you know, um. That's my goal in life, I think, along with trying to be a nice husband and a good dad and all that sort of stuff. All the other stuff, but that, I mean, all of that life stuff makes you a better actor anyway, you know, I mean.

• 58:36Speaker 00

  Your parents must be so proud.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I mean, I don't, my dad, um, my dad's not one of those guys that said, I'm really proud of you, son, and. You know, it's sort of, um, I think they are, but it's, I guess particularly, I'm much more closer, I'd probably say to my mum than I'm my dad. But, you know, I know he's proud, but he's just of that generation where he doesn't express that as much.

• 59:01Speaker 00

  What's one role you really want? And what's one? What's one role you really want and what's one role you missed out on?

• 59:09Speaker 01

  Oh, um.

• 59:12Speaker 00

  Or is anyone that you thought you were gonna get and then they failed?

• 59:14Speaker 01

  Oh, there's countless, well, there's countless auditions where you've gotten.

• 59:18Speaker 00

  You got, I nailed that.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  I remember going into, uh, um, I remember auditioning for a part and it went so well. The casting director walked me down the corridor to the lift and was like, you know, blowing proverbial smoke up my arse and was like, I was just, that was incredible, Danny. I just didn't think it would be as good as that. Oh, well done, brilliant. He actually pressed the button. And I, I remember the door shutting like that, you were wonderful, just really great. And I was like, I think I might have got that. And I didn't, I didn't, you know, I didn't end up getting it because, you know, it's hard, in a way, it gets harder the more successful you get because. The pool of actors that you're up against becomes sort of smaller and smaller and you're, you're all on that list together.

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  And you're, you know, you're up against some serious talent. And rejection is part and parcel of being an actor and you just have to accept that. You're never gonna get everything you're going for.

• 1:00:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it builds that character, which is just like insane. And I think that like, that's why I look at your career, right? You know, leaving kind of home at thirteen, getting on the tube, going to Italia Conti, then trying for Rada, doing those things, going, that builds that character, that resilience to then go into the world of acting. I think sometimes if you just jump into the world of acting without having that experience of rejection and hardship. It's a bit like, it's a shaky ground, right?

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. You've got, the thing is, I mean, look, I can't, now I can't do anything else, do you know what I mean? It's sort of.

• 1:00:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, what would you do?

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  I mean, I'd probably be an artist of some, I mean, another reliable job.

• 1:00:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, same with Brie Hall.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  I should be a bus driver or something like that, shouldn't I, really? But you know, when young actors come to me and like, they ask advice, it's like, it's like, you've got to have that mentality where like, there are pitfalls and rejection and it's, it's really hard. It's a very hard industry to make your way in. But if you've got that fire burning within and you can't put it out, then this is, you've got to, you've got to see it through. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:01:21Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  It's like, you can't do, it's like, it's more than a job, do you know what I mean? It's just like, it's a way of life.

• 1:01:27Speaker 00

  I also think with acting, which I find is that,

• 1:01:30Speaker 00

  and I hope some acts forgive me, but I, my sister's an actor and she's incredible. She's incredible, but I find sometimes with actors, they say with the rejection, but I'm so good. I'm just, but I'm so good. It's like, that doesn't matter. So it doesn't, it doesn't matter and you, and you've got to get past that. You, you may be good, you may be great, but you've got to kind of get past that.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can't take it personally.

• 1:01:52Speaker 00

  You can't take it personally.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  And sometimes you do, if you really want a gig and it doesn't come your way, it can be demoralising. You have to use that, you know what I mean?

• 1:01:59Speaker 00

  What's one role, if you could play any, would you play?

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  I mean, I'd love to be in like a, you know, my great mate is Stephen Graham and, you know, Steve's done like Scorsese movies and things like that. I'd love to work in like a Scorsese movie, for instance, you know? He used to send me little WhatsApp messages every now and again with him on, set with De Niro and standing there with Pacino and I'm like, wow. You know, like just living.

• 1:02:26Speaker 00

  And he responds.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  Hey Steve, thanks buddy.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  Have fun.

• 1:02:37Speaker 05

  Amid the chaos of a medieval battlefield, one man raises the crown. But out of the carnage, Henry Tudor plans to give the realm he's conquered, hope. A new king, a new era, a new dynasty. England is about to fall under the spell of the Tudors. Join me, Dan Jones, for the unmissable story of a family you'll never forget. This is history, The Tudors. Watch on Spotify, YouTube, or listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:03:07Speaker 06

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody, listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed and the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for watch or iPad required. Edition terms apply for all offers.

• 1:03:40Speaker 00

  Danny, you have your new podcast coming out as well. Gangster presents the story of Ronnie Biggs.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  Yes. Well, I played Ronnie Biggs way back when in Mrs. Biggs alongside Sheridan Smith. Yeah, so it was, I just got approached to narrate the radio series because it's like the anniversary of him coming back to the UK after, you know, being in exile and on the run in Rio. And it's like six episodes. And what was extraordinary about revisiting it and him as a person was there was just lots of stuff I didn't realise. And it's an amazing show on BBC Radio and there's footage of him that has never been heard before. They've interviewed all of those sort of characters around the story.

• 1:04:27Speaker 00

  And for anyone who doesn't know, who is Ronnie Biggs?

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  Ronnie Biggs is the famous great train robber. He...

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  What year was the Great Train Robbery? It was the early sixties. Was it sixty three?

• 1:04:40Speaker 00

  Sixty three, but I think.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  Something like that, anyway. So it was the.

• 1:04:43Speaker 00

  It's not even that long ago.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:45Speaker 00

  That's the wild thing, right?

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and nothing like that had. So the Great Royal Mail Train was, um. Bruce Reynolds was the mastermind behind it. Um. And the, the story goes that, cause Ronnie Biggs was trying to live a straight life.

• 1:05:05Speaker 00

  Ronnie Biggs as well.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean? Like, he was sort of, you know, doing this, that, and nicking cars and doing like robberies and things like. But he was definitely trying to go straight down in Surrey.

• 1:05:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  With his wife and kids.

• 1:05:17Speaker 00

  Sixty three.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, with Charmian Biggs, his wife. And then, um. He needed a deposit for their house. And he turned to his friend Bruce Reynolds and said, listen, I, I desperately need five hundred quid for this deposit. And he said, look. I haven't got it, Ronnie. Everything I've got is tied up in this big job that I'm doing, but I can give you a place on that job. If you're willing to come on to the crew. And in actual fact, they needed a train driver to drive the locomotive. And it was. Ronnie Biggs himself, that his friend Peter was a train driver and he got him involved in it. But here's the thing, on the night of the robbery.

• 1:05:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  Peter couldn't drive the train. Like, for whatever reason, it was like the wrong, uh, make, model and the. And they got told to sit in the van and they actually never touched the mailbag. They actually physically never. Handled the mailbag off the train itself. And then, you know. They're in the hideout and then one by one they all get caught and they got sentenced to thirty years in prison. In, um, which is an.

• 1:06:20Speaker 00

  That's a crazy amount.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  It was they, they were made an example of, you know, it was like a, an act of treason against the crown. No one had ever attempted anything. As audacious as that before. And so they were made examples of. So thirty years. I mean, I remember saying, I remember the line, you, you wouldn't get that for murder.

• 1:06:36Speaker 00

  You wouldn't get it.

• 1:06:37Speaker 01

  You know. And so he got deeply depressed when he was in, um, Wandsworth Prison where he was, uh. Behind bars and of course they broke him out. And, uh, it was literally like a rope ladder. Over the wall on an exercise and he and he jumped through the thing and and then he eventually goes to he has plastics like a botched job, plastic surgery thing going on, ends up in Paris and then get goes to Australia and then ends up in Rio. An absolute, like it's an extraordinary story Ronnie Biggs, like it's and he's he's one of these characters that had like a nine lives. It was just, he he always managed to evade things and

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  and he got Ray Munda, the stripper, pregnant in Rio, which meant they couldn't extradite him and um yeah, just your archetypal lovable rogue. I I had an amazing time playing him. Um so to revisit it again for the radio series was just awesome. Yeah, I loved it.

• 1:07:35Speaker 00

  Man, everyone needs to go and listen to that and we'll put it in the show notes as well as you can click on it. Danny, listen, I know that we're stuck for time, so we've got to wrap up, but I just want to say thanks, man, that's

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  Thank you. I've really enjoyed it. It's been such a lovely chat, Jamie.

• 1:07:47Speaker 00

  You kidding me? I've enjoyed every minute of that monologue. It's gonna stick with me. That is unbelievable, man.

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  If I went wrong, could we do another take?

• 1:07:56Speaker 00

  It's unbelievable. Oh, man, like, thanks, hey, listen, before we finish, uh, I like to ask eight quickfire questions.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:08:06Speaker 00

  You ready for this?

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:08Speaker 00

  What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  Oh, um, he who dares.

• 1:08:15Speaker 00

  Let's go.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  That's my um little nod and wink to fools and horses.

• 1:08:20Speaker 00

  Best compliment anyone's ever given you?

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  I could think of the worst thing if someone said to me.

• 1:08:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, go on.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  He's got a face like a thwarted man cub. That was, that was, yeah, that was a review. It's funny the ones you remember, isn't it?

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  A thwarted man cub on the cusp of a tantrum, I think it was.

• 1:08:42Speaker 00

  What is that? What scares you most about yourself?

• 1:08:46Speaker 01

  I can be impatient sometimes, yeah.

• 1:08:49Speaker 00

  Same as me. Last time you cried?

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Oh, um, I cry a lot. It must have been some TV show I've watched. I don't know what it was, but I'm, I'm, I'm a bit.

• 1:09:00Speaker 00

  Billions Gone Talent with that golden buzzer.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  Oh, right, yeah, that got you, yeah.

• 1:09:04Speaker 00

  That gets me.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:06Speaker 00

  Gets me.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:07Speaker 00

  What's something you can't let go of?

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  The Forte Man Cup review. No, um, what's something I can't let go of?

• 1:09:14Speaker 00

  Can be anything.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  Security of your family.

• 1:09:16Speaker 00

  Great answer. What's your guilty pleasure?

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  I do like a, what's that, In the Jungle, the I'm a Celebrity. I do like a bit of that, yeah.

• 1:09:24Speaker 00

  I reckon they've asked you a few times.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  They have asked me, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't last five minutes.

• 1:09:30Speaker 00

  I like it as well. What turns you off?

• 1:09:33Speaker 01

  Cruelness.

• 1:09:34Speaker 00

  Very good answer. What turns you on?

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  Good acting.

• 1:09:37Speaker 00

  Yeah. Last one, tricky one for us Brits. What do you like most about yourself?

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  I don't take things too seriously and, um, yeah, hopefully I'm still as grounded as I was when I first started all those years ago.

• 1:09:49Speaker 00

  Love that name. Bonus one, favourite dance move. And can you show us?

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  Favourite dance move?

• 1:09:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  You can't knock the running man, can you?

• 1:09:58Speaker 00

  Let's have a look. Go on, let's do it. Let's do it.

• 1:10:00Speaker 01

  Classic.

• 1:10:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, let's get it.

• 1:10:06Speaker 00

  Daddy Baez, thank you so much. We appreciate it.